Why I'll always say Morrowind is the best TES game

[Sheogorath]

As you may guess from my screen name here, I happen to be a big TES fan. I admit, I came to the scene rather late, I didn't get Morrowind until about 2006. I bought it second hand at a local store known as Bookmans (a poor video game addicts dream, by the way. Return a game in 7 days if you dont like it, no questions asked.) I had heard about it, vaguely, but didn't really know the actual content of the game.

So I took it home, threw it on the hard drive and, about twelve hours later, realized I had to pee really badly.

Morrowind has many flaws, I admit. Its graphics are not top-notch, although with some texture packs things look pretty decent even by todays standards. It's got a terribly primitive dialogue display. I mean, really, HYPERTEXT? And the interface really could be better.

But, at the same time, its strengths, and they are many...oh so many...make it one of my favorite games of all time.

First off, the dialogue. Yeah, it's primitive, but you know, I like it more than Oblivion's system. It's particularly jarring when you speak to some old beggar woman who just recently addressed you in tones suitable for an eighty year old, only to have her suddenly change vocal chords and speech patterns with a young woman from England.
The text nicely circumvents that, and allows far more OPTIONS. I like asking people about rumors and not getting the same three lines of text over and over. Morrowind had at least five :P

That brings me to the voices...oh, the voices.
Morrowind got things RIGHT. Wood Elves were annoying little buggers, but they're supposed to be. Dark Elves and Khajit were BRILLIANT, completely and utterly perfect.
By comparison, Oblivion's voice actors are rather dull. Dark Elves do have a trace of that husky accent, but it's not nearly as pronounced. The Khajit were toned down as well. And, in my opinion, the High Elves sound just a touch less arrogant and condescending.
And, of course, the insults. I loved it when I got called a 'swit' or an 'n'wah'. Those words engraved themselves in the same part of my brain as Thief's 'taffer'.
Oblivion lacks these lovely creative insults. Instead we get "STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM."
What is this, a 70's cop drama?

Closely related to that is the culture. Morrowind featured a vibrant island setting, with a massive amount of history, which WORKED. It was quite clear, to me at least, that all of the old forts were designed to be lived in. All the tombs had the appropriate decor you'd expect. The cities were a bit sparse, yes, but I can forgive that in the face of all the interesting things in them.
The religion, and the conflict between the colonial Imperials and their own religion, was clear and well played out. The Dark Elves are not happy about all these dirty foreigners and most of them aren't bothering to hide it, even if they tolerate you.
And the architecture...oh my, the architecture. Morrowind was ORIGINAL there, at least, fairly original. Each clan had its own unique style, from the adobe buildings of the Hlaalu to the Redoran crabshells to the Telvanni giant-plant-things. Even better was the jarringly out of place Imperial architecture, all hard edges and greyness.

Oblivion seems to take place in Generic Fantasy Land #425. I mean, the Imperials are supposed to be (sort of) based on Rome, right? But, of course, somebody decided to cut that out and turn them into something else. I, for one, would have far more liked to see a Roman-based Cyrodill than the silly mishmash that we got.
Worse, NONE of the dungeons in Oblivion seem to be practical. The deserted towers only feature beds or any sort of indication that they were designed for human inhabitants when they're home to raiders or Goblins. Apparently, in fact, they were mostly built to put dead people in, to judge by the number of tombs in them.
The same goes for the Aylied ruins. Big rooms, almost always empty or full of traps. People talk about the 'mystery of the Aylieds', but is it really a wonder that an empire vanishes when its architecture features pitfalls and deadly gas vents in every room?

Pacing is a big factor as well. Oblivion is just too fast.
I'd use a metaphor here, but I might get banned, so I wont.
Anyway, Oblivion hurls you right into the main quest with the imminent threat that THE WORLD IS GOING TO DIE IF YOU DONT ACT NOW. Of course, it doesn't, but that's not the point. The premise is that the city is going to get EATEN BY MEHRUNES DAGON RIGHT NOW, even if it isn't, and I feel like kind of a jerk for not getting on it right away.
Morrowind, by contrast, hands you a note and tells you to go talk to some jerk in some city. The jerk in question turns out to be the resident crazy old man (on first appearance) and sets you to running some basic chores for him. No need to rush, it's not like There's a giant bronze golem and an insane demi-god planning to ethnically cleanse the entire island. Oh and the gods aren't real. Or something.
Long story short, Oblivion hurls you directly into a mess. Morrowind is content to let you wander about without making you feel like a jerk.

Now, here's the sticky bit. Many people derided Oblivion for its compass and arrows...and I kind of agree. Yeah, the directions in Morrowind were terrible, usually, but they were often exactly the kind of directions people really give. A map with directions of some kind would have been nice...especially considering all the paper lying around, but hey, what'cha gonna do?

Lastly, a personal issue, thievery. My main complaint, besides the whole 'Medieval LOJACK' with which every owned item in Cyrodil is equipped, was the worthlessness of items in Oblivion. You could break into somebodies house and steal all the silverware and come out with about 30 septims for it. Which is, approximately, enough to buy a bent spork from your local shop in the same game. In Morrowind, being a thief was wonderfully, but not overly, profitable venture. Especially fun once you got the skills to start breaking into stores, which had stock and didn't keep it suspended below the floor in an unpickably locked chest. A fact somewhat countered by many stores actually employing GUARDS and not relying on their owners ability to manipulate spacetime.

Anyway, let the TES fanboy battle begin! Engarde! :hairpin3:

[Fragony]

I like Morrowind better as well, it's a more interesting place. The world of Oblivion is so monotone, same architecture everywhere, same landscapes. Morrowind was much more diverse, really felt like traveling to different places, world of Oblivion may be larger but it doesn't feel like that.

[Samurai Waki]

I know exactly what you mean. After I bought Oblivion some number of years ago...was it '06-07'? I played through the main quest, and was completely disappointed. Actually maybe only two months ago, I re-downloaded morrowind, found all the old mods I really liked for it, and I'm still working on beating the game, I'm working on the Five Shrines Quest up in Solstheim.

[TinCow]

I never played the first two games, but between Morrowind and Oblivion, Morrowind is the clear winner for all the reasons you give. Unfortunately, it will probably retain that title forever, because a lot of the things that made Morrowind better have now been permanently 'retired' by Bethsoft.

[CountArach]

Morrowind with Oblivion's graphics...

*Dreams*

[I of the Storm]

Not really a fanboy battle to expect here. Morrowind wins. It's better. It's virtually bugfree and was so on release. It's got the better story. It had two wonderful expansion packs. It let's you immerse. It's more interesting. It's funnier. It's ... I'll stop here.

[caravel]

I have this game but could never really get into it. After clicking through tons of dialogue and wandering about for hours I simply gave up on it. The combat system is awful as well. It involves running up to the enemy and clicking as fast as possible, any kind of dodging or circling is pointless. However you've almost inspired me to give it another go with this thread and it does run under wine.

[I of the Storm]

The combat system is a little more complex than that. Although there is one clickable option somewhere that enables and disables some sort of simplified combat system. Just make sure you don't have the simple one enabled. IIRC combat is similar to Oblivion, apart from the blocking (automatic based on skill) and the archery. And you can dodge, both blows and most spells.

[frogbeastegg]

I once spent a weekend in Morrowind diving for pearls and hunting mudcrabs to earn money for my new character. It's actually one of my fondest memories of the game; never done anything like it in another game, never been able to.

Other times I remember the cliff racers. Most of my time in the game was spent without the cliff racer removal mod.

Oblivion did a few things better than its predecessor. I liked seeing non-hostile wildlife as I wandered. I did like the compass; seeing unknown blips appear and being tempted to divert from my journey to see what they were, instead of heading out on dedicated exploration trips. Obviously the graphics. And ... er ... at this point I struggle. There were probably some others. It's been several years since I played Morrowind and a year since I completed Oblivion, so it's a bit hard to remember what belongs to which game.

I hated the way enemies levelled up with you. I hated the way this made the already dangerously gamey character building system completely broken - playing the whole game at level 1 was the best way to make a powerful character! I disliked the way horses were added in and in the same breath made completely pointless. The loss of options and variety on all fronts was a sore point. Oblivion gates, need I say more of them? The world itself was not as interesting. Everything was pasted in a nasty bloom effect, and parts of the world were simply twee. Oblivion is the game which introduced NPC schedules to the series, isn't it? I hated them too. Nice idea in theory; in practice I ended up wasting infuriating amounts of time looking for people because they had moved.

Morrowind did have a better sense of place. More coherant, less generic. That counts for a lot. Its factions were much more varied and more meaningful.

Then there are the issues which are in both games. The poor writing and plot, the unbelievable characters, the large number of fetch quests, the tunnel dungeons, the AI break downs, the dull combat, the decidedly average voice acting, the dull conversations. I'm not fond of the character building system in the ES series. It's another case of nice idea in theory, bad idea in practice. At least for me.

The one major, major advantage the ES series has - and the thing I like them best for - is that there is nothing else like them available. No other RPG (excepting Fallout 3) drops you off into a massive world and lets you to do whatever you like to this extent. For that I shall always play and like them, warts and all. I just won't love them until they remove some of the warts.

And why does it rain so often in ES-land? I swear the place should be flooded by now ...

[Sheogorath]

It makes sense that it rains in Morrowind a lot, I mean, half the island is swamp :P

But yeah, one of the things I liked about Morrowind was the unbelievable characters. Remember Crassus Curio? And his first quest?
Good times.

[Husar]

Have you ever tried the Gothic series?
Morrowind was nice but I never finished it because it was huge and tedious as well and i kinda lost track of the main quest.

[rajpoot]

Morrowind with Oblivion's graphics...

That'll be beyond awesome. I liked Morrowind's detail, but I just couldn't bear it's graphics and animation......normally I on't mind graphics so much, but when I started on Morrowind, after finishing Oblivion, first I was thrown by the lack of the minimap, and quick travel, (which made Oblivion very easy and comfy), and next I was depressed just looking at the charecters and some of the scenes.....

However, work is on on the Tamerial (that's what it's spelled as no?) project, they're creating a larger gameworld as mods for TES3. When that's out, I'll dust the box once more.

[frogbeastegg]

It makes sense that it rains in Morrowind a lot, I mean, half the island is swamp :P.
Swamp? It (and Oblivion's theme park) should have been Atlantis. :tongueg:

Sunshine, so rare, so precious ...


Have you ever tried the Gothic series?
The third game has just had a major patch too. Bugs fixed, issues purged, loads of balancing, from what I hear it's a vastly improved game. Can't wait to start a new character and jump in ... er, once I finish some of my other RPGs. The only shame is that the fans had to it it instead of the developers.

[Sheogorath]

EDIT:
There's some mods, I think, that either change the weather patterns or let you control the weather. For both games, actually :D


I never really liked Gothic. The TES series is, IMO, superior simply because of its moddability. Balmorra became the biggest city in the world in my game :P

Speaking of cities, there's another annoying bit about Oblivion. For me, none of the cities really felt city-like. Especially Imperial City. Supposedly the capital of the continent-spanning empire, with its population of, say, fifty. Ish.
The imperial palace consist of, apparently, the council chamber and some guard barracks. And whats more, there's nothing of real value in there besides some trinkets in the imperial battlemages quarters.
Considering how common enchanted weapons are, you'd figure all the guards in the barracks would be issued with +5 Swords of Fiery Pwning. Instead they can just kick your ass because they're always twenty levels above you no matter what.
Balmorra is probably the best example of what FELT like a 'real' city. The Hlaalu council hall had everything a council hall should have. It was all arranged in a manner not-quite standard to what a modern human would expect, but you could certainly see a bunch of Dark Elves appreciating. It was even surrounded by noblemen's houses. As I recall, Cyrodill doesn't apparently HAVE noblemen besides the counts who rule the cities.

[Vladimir]

I never played Oblivion because I didn’t like the departure from Morrowind. Even the X-box version of Morrowind was phenomenal. There was a real sense of peril at times. Yea, my characters died a few times. Sometimes I would “walk” by the cave entrance of a difficult enemy and just look at the door, hatefully, for a little bit, thinking about what I needed to do to clear the area. I wonder how long save games last on the X-box. I have my strongholds setup exactly as I want them. A real work of beauty, all of them; except for the vagrant character I created who just has various squats around the island.

Then there was the time I accidently finished the main quest. That was funny.

Good times!

[Justiciar]

I believe Oblivion's map was larger than Morrowind's.. but it never felt so vast. I'd be able to spend hours just plodding about the Ashlands*, staring in awe at everything around me, and barely seeming to move. That didn't really feature in Oblivion, for reasons already stated.. it was just tedious in comparison.

I'm told Daggerfall was better, but I've yet to buy it.

* The most memorable landscape in any game I've played.

[Sheogorath]

I believe Oblivion's map was larger than Morrowind's.. but it never felt so vast. I'd be able to spend hours just plodding about the Ashlands*, staring in awe at everything around me, and barely seeming to move. That didn't really feature in Oblivion, for reasons already stated.. it was just tedious in comparison.

I'm told Daggerfall was better, but I've yet to buy it.

* The most memorable landscape in any game I've played.

Oblivion was bigger, but, it seemed, had less stuff in it. In Morrowind, pretty much every corner had a well placed egg mine or tomb tucked away somewhere. Or there was a lovely mudpit or some other terrain feature.
Oblivion...well...you got trees. Lots and lots of trees.
Most of Morrowind's dungeons were smaller too, I think. The tombs were, certainly. Which kind of makes sense, especially when compared to the Aylied 'cities', which were apparently ALL tomb. Some of the Dwarf ruins were pretty big, of course, though.
The one thing I did approve of in Oblivion was the 'surface' levels of dungeons. You could walk around the open ruins of the towers and find things...not much, but it was something.

Speaking of the towers, that's another thing that bugged me.

The Empire can apparently afford to maintain a massive military presence in Morrowind, complete with a large number of forts and a couple cities, plus an outpost all the way in freakin' Solestheim (however you spell that), but has, apparently, allowed EVERY defensive outpost in the heart of the empire to fall into total disrepair and, in some cases, become occupied by bandits?
Seriously?
This is the continent-spanning empire which, although corrupt, is capable of kicking the Dark Elves in Morrowind into submission, thrashing the psychotic cannibal wood elves and has lasted for hundreds of years? The Imperial Legions which took on Morrowind can't deal with a bunch of BANDITS?
(Alright, understandable, sometimes those bandits were wearing Daedric equipment...goddamn leveling.)

Also, to those who were talking about Morrowind with Oblivion graphics, I believe somebody discovered that it was possible to run Morrowind's data files through Oblivion, and they're currently working on a project to get it functional (since all the text and such has to be converted to Oblivion's system).
Google "Morroblivion", I think it was.

[frogbeastegg]

The Empire can apparently afford to maintain a massive military presence in Morrowind, complete with a large number of forts and a couple cities, plus an outpost all the way in freakin' Solestheim (however you spell that), but has, apparently, allowed EVERY defensive outpost in the heart of the empire to fall into total disrepair and, in some cases, become occupied by bandits?
:yes: The forts in Morrowind felt practical. They were designed to hold off an assault, and featured most things you would expect to see: living areas, towers, armouries, a courtyard, etc.

The forts in Oblivion never felt like that. The surface areas were a bunch of ruins which didn't look like they would convert into a fort if you rebuilt all of the walls, and the areas below ground were just another set of tunnel dungeons complete with traps and mazes. They weren't forts; they were a combination of a crazy warehouse and a cave.

Don't forget the patrols keeping the roads clear for travellers. A mighty 1 guy on a horse at maybe 3 points in the entire road network.

[TinCow]

I believe Oblivion's map was larger than Morrowind's.. but it never felt so vast.


Oblivion was bigger, but, it seemed, had less stuff in it.

Actually, Oblivion's was smaller. I don't remember the figure I was told, but it's something like 20% smaller. That wasn't what made it seem smaller though. Fallout 3 is in turn about 50% of the size of Oblivion, but seems a lot larger than Oblivion because there are so many unique locations and places to explore. Oblivion's problem was that nearly every dungeon was generic and forgettable. While this was true for much of Morrowind as well, at least Morrowind had those unique dungeons scattered about with unique treasure and non-scaled monsters. The varied terrain had a great impact as well, with the swamps in the west, desert in the north, fertile land in the south, mountains in the center, not to mention all the different architecture. Oblivions simply seemed the same everywhere you went, with very minor exceptions. This is one of the reasons I think the Unique Landscapes mod series is one of the best improvements for Oblivion. It gives an actual sense of size to the game that wasn't present OOB.

[Sheogorath]

:yes: The forts in Morrowind felt practical. They were designed to hold off an assault, and featured most things you would expect to see: living areas, towers, armouries, a courtyard, etc.

The forts in Oblivion never felt like that. The surface areas were a bunch of ruins which didn't look like they would convert into a fort if you rebuilt all of the walls, and the areas below ground were just another set of tunnel dungeons complete with traps and mazes. They weren't forts; they were a combination of a crazy warehouse and a cave.

Don't forget the patrols keeping the roads clear for travellers. A mighty 1 guy on a horse at maybe 3 points in the entire road network.

To be fair, the fine men of the Imperial Legion are basically demigods in unmodded Oblivion outside of that emberassing little episode at Kvatch and whenever they're scripted to be on your side :P

But it's like I said in the OP. In Morrowind, buildings were designed to be lived in. In Oblivion, everything but houses is basically a dungeon. The forts and ruins are both nothing but tombs, which is a nice excuse to fill them with zombies and all, but Morrowind pulled that off nicely with buildings that actually were tombs.


Actually, Oblivion's was smaller. I don't remember the figure I was told, but it's something like 20% smaller. That wasn't what made it seem smaller though. Fallout 3 is in turn about 50% of the size of Oblivion, but seems a lot larger than Oblivion because there are so many unique locations and places to explore. Oblivion's problem was that nearly every dungeon was generic and forgettable. While this was true for much of Morrowind as well, at least Morrowind had those unique dungeons scattered about with unique treasure and non-scaled monsters. The varied terrain had a great impact as well, with the swamps in the west, desert in the north, fertile land in the south, mountains in the center, not to mention all the different architecture. Oblivions simply seemed the same everywhere you went, with very minor exceptions. This is one of the reasons I think the Unique Landscapes mod series is one of the best improvements for Oblivion. It gives an actual sense of size to the game that wasn't present OOB.

I understand it works like this:
Morrowind's overall map size is larger, HOWEVER, Oblivion has more actual land, as Morrowind's map is like, %30 water (and, as I recall, basically goes on forever).

Either way, Morrowind FELT bigger. As you said, variety of terrain and culture made Morrowind great, whereas in Oblivion it's basically all the same. Yeah, the towns change architecture, but it either feels same-y or forced, like Bravil.
An entire town of slums? Why would ANYBODY choose to live there when there are nicer towns a few hours walk away? With good roads, no less.
At least Morrowind had the good sense to isolate it's shanty towns, or make them ports.

[TinCow]

I understand it works like this:
Morrowind's overall map size is larger, HOWEVER, Oblivion has more actual land, as Morrowind's map is like, %30 water (and, as I recall, basically goes on forever).

Yeah, that could very well be true, but even the water was fun. Once I figured out that shipwrecks were marked on the paper map that came with the game, I spent a lot of time and money to get equipment/spells sufficient to let me dive on the deeper ones, just to see what was down there. It was great fun getting out to some of the really remote islands as well. I think that only other game I've ever played that made pure exploration so much fun was Ultima Online in the early days when there were very few houses and being able to teleport was rare.

[Sheogorath]

Yeah, that could very well be true, but even the water was fun. Once I figured out that shipwrecks were marked on the paper map that came with the game, I spent a lot of time and money to get equipment/spells sufficient to let me dive on the deeper ones, just to see what was down there. It was great fun getting out to some of the really remote islands as well. I think that only other game I've ever played that made pure exploration so much fun was Ultima Online in the early days when there were very few houses and being able to teleport was rare.

Ah, the joy of finding Mai'q the Liar on his little island :P

[Vladimir]

Ah, the joy of finding Mai'q the Liar on his little island :P

And some great armor on an island in the southwest.

[Decker]

I would slaughter whole towns and use them as stashes for all sorts of things lol...
That was a great game, and exploring never got old..

[Thermal]

How could I chose? Don't have morrowind anymore but wish I did

Presently On Obvilion I'm playing as a level 21 High Elf called Gion Pesa who is the mages guild leader, fighters guild leader, thieves guild footpad, dark brotherhood assassin, and arena champion (too kind to kill the grey prince :party: ) Barely started the main quest, just looting places, enchanting endlessly at the arcane university & exploring the shivering isles, that expansion is so good!


Well though a high he's deadly with illusion, alchemy, destruction. But also heavy armour and blade :yes:

Just thought I'd give a life story.

I haven;t played on morrowind for over a year but I long for it ( I have the consoles versions see and don't have original xbox anymore) is morrowind on xbox xbox360 compatible?

Still gotta love oblivion, so amazingly graphically awesome and huge......

[Sheogorath]

See, that's another great thing about Morrowind. You CANT do everything and be everything. Becoming a member of one of the great houses, at some point you're going to end up breaking the quests for the others. As I recall, the mage and fighter guild quests eventually became mutually exclusive, and if you were a thief you couldn't be a mage, since a bunch of thieves guild quests involved stealing from the mages.
Still, one thieves guild quest let you loot an entire mages guild. Good times. Oblivion's thieves guild is watered down and silly by comparison.

[Samurai Waki]

plus in Morrowind you had the option of Joining the Tribunal or the... Whatever the name of the Imperial Church thingy was. You could physically join the Imperial Legion, and join one of the great houses. Thats a lot more options rather than the basic 4 that you have in Oblivion. There were also some great mods out there for Morrowind that made it so you could or couldn't join certain factions if you were already in another one.

[rajpoot]

Right that I agree to......somehow Oblivion does not give you much incentive to stick to one kind of combat, and some of them are downright useless.
No matter how I start off, I almost always end up being a kind of uber battlemage character with maxed out destruction and blade skills. Makes the game slightly monotonous at times.

[Sheogorath]

Right that I agree to......somehow Oblivion does not give you much incentive to stick to one kind of combat, and some of them are downright useless.
No matter how I start off, I almost always end up being a kind of uber battlemage character with maxed out destruction and blade skills. Makes the game slightly monotonous at times.

Probably due to the over-generalized skill system. Suddenly, 'blunt, axe, spear, short blade, long blade, hand-to-hand and marksman' got reduced to "Blade, blunt, marksman, hand-to-hand'. And, of course, they eliminated the medium armor type. Hence, no need to specialize.
Not to mention full access to all the trainers in every guild...ahhhgrghfdgf.

[Ja'chyra]

I've been thinking about loading up Morrowind on my laptop for those overnighters with work, can anyone suggest some good mods for it?

[johnhughthom]

I remember enjoying The Illuminated Order.

[CountArach]

I've been thinking about loading up Morrowind on my laptop for those overnighters with work, can anyone suggest some good mods for it?
Better Bodies is essential. Morrowind Comes Alive is brilliant - it really adds in a lot of extra people. Not sure about gameplay ones though.

[Sheogorath]

I've been thinking about loading up Morrowind on my laptop for those overnighters with work, can anyone suggest some good mods for it?

Vampire Embrace is a good one. It gives being a vampire a lot more depth. The Werewolf Evolution mod is highly unstable, but fun as well. The Floating House or whatever its called is good as well.

You know...I really didn't get that many gameplay mods for Morrowind...I thought it was mostly fine as is .-.

[Guru]

Ah, Morrowind. Sometimes I actually miss it and it's world. *sigh* To taste ash yam, to hunt some wild guars.. To hear the music, to see the people. Probably the best game I've ever played.

As for mods, I used to have 50-100 of them running at one point.. I suggest you go to Planet Elder Scrolls and check the top mods there.

[ElectricEel]

I've been thinking about loading up Morrowind on my laptop for those overnighters with work, can anyone suggest some good mods for it?

You'll probably want the unofficial patch (http://www.etherealsoftware.com.au/patch/); Morrowind doesn't have any gamebreaking issues from what I recall, but it fixes a lot of minor bugs and inconsistencies and there's no reason to not use it.

Galsiah's character development mod (http://uk.geocities.com/galsiah/) is good, from what I recall. It changes the character development system so your character develops more organically, so you don't need to worry about leveling or stat optimization.

Atmospheric Sound Effects (http://home.roadrunner.com/~cairnterrier/) adds various enviromental sounds to the game, enhancing immersion.

That's a few off the top of my head; there's tons of other great mods out there which I've used, but I unfortunately can't point you to them since it's been such a long time since I played Morrowind.

[Raz]

There was a graphical expansion mod that I had on my Morrowind at one point, it added a pseudo-HDR Lighting feature and enhanced all textures and did various other things but I really cannot remember details of it, it made a nice addition.

I'd love to still have my Morrowind on my PC, had all he expansions and everything but it mysteriously vanished as most things do on my computer. The CD's too, I know I didn't sell them, rather they're lost in the tombs of my loft, probably scratched and chipped beyond repair.

Haha, I remember when me and my mate would use the command lines to edit our acrobatics skill to an insane level and we'd be jumping from rooftop to rooftop, occasionally dropping down in an alleyway to slaughter some innocent dark elf and dispose of his or her body.... the feature of which just happened to be removed in Oblivion. Heh, good times. :smug2:

[Furunculus]

good review Sheogorath, i agree with it.

i played morrowind for months, but got bored with oblivion after only weeks.

on the other hand my mother played oblivion (plus expansions) religiously for what must have been nearly a year!

[Mailman653]

I saw Steam has ES III GOTY Ed. for $20, I was thinking about getting it but I'm unsure. I have ES IV for the 360 and I liked it a lot although I know ES III is a lot different from ES IV in many ways.

[Centurion1]

Love morrowind unconditionally. I miss playing it so much.

However, i hated the Cliff racers, they sincerely made playing the game un enjoyable. The quests and dungeons were so much more varied. I loved being able to walk around, but i also hated the time it took. So i would just teleport using a command line. I think it was a good idea for oblivion but they took it to far, to the point where by mid-game you never walked anywhere. It should have been like pick three locations and teleport there.

Now this is the best ES character.
Step one: Choose a Dark elf
Step 2: Model said dark elf to look like the guy on the boat in the beginning (Still my favorite character). Thats another oblivion flaw, it touts this face modelling thing but, i couldnt give my character anything cool, like tats or earrings (look stupid in real life personally but in game they rock), i also wasn't allowed to shave his head and i always feel my characters look dumb and unrealistic with things like mohawks or flowing manes I mean you were supposed to be a slave??? *end rant*
Step three: Become a marksman, with range, short blade, and thief skills.
Step Four: Get the blinding boots of speed
Step five: This is a slight exploit but you can do it "legally", take a potion of resist magic and in the brief time it still works put on the boots
Step 6: Never take off boots.
Step 7: level
Step 8: go to corpus place and get the curaiss of saviors hide. voila you have a magic resistant marksman who is too fast to be caught.

Oh and don't forget to make a short blade with an enchanment of like superdamage for instant kills in case you get attacked up close.

If you like breaking the game, make yourself invisible with Chameleon.

Oh and i loved how you could build your own house it always felt like an accomplishment. Oh and this seems small but i loved how the candles and stuff actually provided light.

Gosh, i think i am going to go install it again.......... graphics or not, i played it after oblivion came out and i never thought the graphics were THAT bad.

[Mailman653]

Yeah I was looking at some mods for ESIII, not as many as ESIV seems to have, but I did find some that changed the textures, even one on this thread replaces the NPC's with really cool textures. I'm still debating but so far it sounds interesting.

I tried ESII from another thread but I couldn't get into it, I didn't like the combat with the mouse and it was so massive I felt a little lost.

[rvg]

Speaking of Morrowind and other TES games, somebody at Bethesda must have an obsession with oversized androids.

Daggerfall (Numidium), Morrowind (Akulakhan), Oblivion (Mehruhes himself) and even Fallout 3 (LIberty Prime) all prominently feature giant humanoids.

[Raz]

Yeah I was looking at some mods for ESIII, not as many as ESIV seems to have, but I did find some that changed the textures, even one on this thread replaces the NPC's with really cool textures. I'm still debating but so far it sounds interesting.

I tried ESII from another thread but I couldn't get into it, I didn't like the combat with the mouse and it was so massive I felt a little lost.

Don't let Daggerfall throw you off, heck I've been playing TESI - Arena for the past few days.

Morrowind is a truly exceptional game. I really can't stress how enjoyable it was for me to play. My only regret was removing it from my hard-drive. :shame:

[Guru]

Speaking of Morrowind and other TES games, somebody at Bethesda must have an obsession with oversized androids.

Daggerfall (Numidium), Morrowind (Akulakhan), Oblivion (Mehruhes himself) and even Fallout 3 (LIberty Prime) all prominently feature giant humanoids.

Perhaps chronic gigantomania? The monumentarilous disorder? The jumbopathic syndrome? GRF? Gigantesque resistance failure? :idea2:

:laugh4:

[Nelson]

I enjoyed Morrowind immensely having played through it several times.

But wasn’t the combat magic really screwed up? I always thought so. Spells never seemed to scale with your character like melee power did.

[johnhughthom]

You had to buy more powerful spells, or create them yourself.

[Sheogorath]

Speaking of Morrowind and other TES games, somebody at Bethesda must have an obsession with oversized androids.

Daggerfall (Numidium), Morrowind (Akulakhan), Oblivion (Mehruhes himself) and even Fallout 3 (LIberty Prime) all prominently feature giant humanoids.

I have to admit, Liberty Prime is the most awesome of all of them, though.

"OBSTRUCTION DETECTED. COMPOSITION: TITANIUM ALLOY SUPPLEMENTED BY PHOTONIC RESONANCE BARRIER. PROBABILITY OF MISSION HINDRANCE... ZERO PERCENT!!"

[lars573]

So with my 360 on the red rings I've been playing Morrowing again. Oblivion is better, because of the VAST improvements. And I'm not talking about technical stuff like graphics, or physics, or the recorded voices. I'm talking fast travelling, stability, streamlined character skills, easier persuation. Yes these improvements come at a price. For example a return to traditional Elder Scrolls level scalling. And a smaller world. Or that there are fewer factions in Cyrodill than in Morrowind. But these are the only real knocks I have against Oblivion and I can live with them. Comparing the two I like the Oblivion better.

[rajpoot]

They're saying TES 5 will be out by 2010 or 2011 tops. It'll be based in Skyrim, and contrary to popular belief, will not be an MMO (thank the Lord!!!)
Rumours are that like they'd been working on Oblivion even while they were releasing Morrowind Xpacks, they've been working on TES 5 while they were making Fallout 3.
I for one think Skyrim's perfect. I've always been partial to Nords.....can't wait.

[Guru]

Thank god if it wont be a MMO. And Skyrim does sound great... :yes:

[Sheogorath]

I dunno about Skyrim, seems kind of...meh. It's not very well developed in the lore, which I suppose is an advantage, given that what we have thus far seems to indicate that it's basically a stereotypical version of Siberia full of crazed vikings.

I'd much rather have a game set in the Summerset Isles.

[Krusader]

Summerset Isles is probably more xenophobic than Morrowind (oh how I miss those grumpy Dunmer), so dunno how well that would work.

Skyrim. Well dont know really, would be mostly mountains, forests and fjords would it not? Almost like watching out the window for me then :tongue2: . But I think a 2011 date is more likely for next TES. If its next year then Bethesda must soonish release some more info on it if we go by previous TES games (wasn't Oblivion announced a year before release if not more? Same with Fallout 3 me thinks).

[lars573]

I dunno about Skyrim, seems kind of...meh. It's not very well developed in the lore, which I suppose is an advantage, given that what we have thus far seems to indicate that it's basically a stereotypical version of Siberia full of crazed vikings.

I'd much rather have a game set in the Summerset Isles.
Actually there is a lot of backstory for every province. You just have to take the time to track down the right books. The first men who settled on Tamriel were Nords after all.

[rajpoot]

The first men who settled on Tamriel were Nords after all.


Exactly.
The first people to settle, and run out the Altmer were Nedes/Nords, who after mingling with the elven races gave birth to the Imperials. Also they're supposed to have been close to dragons of some sort (keeping figers crossed that we see dragons in TES 5......Ma'iq the Liar says they're there, just very high up....or invisible :laugh4:) in Altmora or whatever that place is beyond the Sea of Ghosts.
Furthermore, Nords actually do have a decent lore history......I mean they're supposed to be involved with subjugation of High Rock and Morrowind at one time or the other (I think) and, far as I understood even Tiber Septim, was half Nord....?

But while we're wishing, what I'd like even more, if they gave us some more stuff on the Akaviri guys.....
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akavir

Edit :
The landscape, if set in Skyrim, I'll wager would be more like that island in Bloodmoon, or maybe the area near Bruma, than anything else...

[lars573]

The Bretons are a Men/Mer mix. That's why they have such high magika. Imperials are the decendants of the enslaved Nedic's of the Ayleids. Who would have never have lowered themselfs to breed with men. That said I think that Ayleids were a new addition to the ES cannon for Oblivion. From what Morrowind books I read the name Ayleid was never used to describe elves of Cyrodiil. But elves having settled all corners of Tamriel was described.

[Krauser]

I liked Oblivion more but it still has problems. Morrowind was just too tedious for me. I really got into the exploration but eventually I would forget what I was doing and just get bored. The only real problems I had with Oblivion was the scaling monsters. It was really annoying being punished for making a character that seemed fun. The game shouldn't let you make a subpar character. If anything they should have boosted your character at levelup, if it seemed it was starting to get behind. This could be done by tracking game stats like how many times you reloaded a save or a more technical approach of comparing your character's and the enemies' stats. I think the ideal game is inbetween Morrowind and Oblivion.

[Vladimir]

So Morrowind is not for the ADHD crowd? :laugh4:

[lars573]

It's not that really. In Morrowind you've got to sink 100+hours into one character to "finish." Finish is relative in ES games, but there comes a point where you can't really too much more with one due to a characters associated main skills. And Morrowind makes you choose factions (you join one you can't join another). In Oblivion your only sinking in 50+ hours. And there are two reasons for this. 1. Cyrodiil is larger by square KM-age than Vvardenvell, but there is less in it. 2. Fast travelling, of those 100+ hours in Morrowind 50 are just hoffing it to and from quest objectives and finding them. Because the main quest is about the only one that marks your map most of the time. In Oblivion every quest gives you a map marker and you can fast travel to the nearest area if you haven't discovered it by chance before hand. Cutting your travel time by two thirds. In fact the only things Oblivion doesn't guide you right too is all but a few of the daedric shrines. While Morrowind does have fast travelling it's more public transit than what Oblivion uses. Oblivion you click on a map marker and it pops you there and X number of hours have passed. Morrowind you hop on the stilt strider (giant insect that used as a bus/transport truck service) for over land links to main cities and most larger towns. Or use boats that link coastal towns and cities. Or use the mages guild guides that zip you between the 5 mages guild halls.

[Vladimir]

The thing I hated most about Morrowind is not that I forgot what I was doing during those long, pointless journeys but that it was so FRUSTRATING :furious3:. The directions and map were poor and while I found some interesting places while looking for others, I would have appreciated a lot more clarity. ADHD isn't my problem; patience is. :wall:

[lars573]

I bought a guide for that reason. And discovered that I'm half decent at map reading.

[Sheogorath]

I bought a guide for that reason. And discovered that I'm half decent at map reading.

Navigating Morrowind via that map sheet they sent along with the game is half the fun :laugh4:

[Guru]

I think the travel system was ruined in Oblivion. I prefer the Morrowind's system of walking and public transport. It was a lot more atmospheric and realistic, and even though it took a lot of time I enjoyed it. Ah, to travel the Grazelands on foot.. West Gash... I also liked the Morrowind map better. And I played Morrowind after Oblivion, so it's not just nostalgy. :2thumbsup:

[Motep]

I only had the opportunity to play morrowind for a few hours, and I still had more fun than with playing oblivion for as long as I have played it. I didnt know they were for the computer untill I read this, and now I think instead of getting morrowind for the xbox, Ill go for the typey-box instead.

I personally liked the scaling of the monsters in Oblivion, and I definitely agree that the npc allie were so suckish when you were at a higher leve that it was a joke. In Kvatch, my level 18 character sat and watched as every member of the guard was decimated in one hit by the denizens of doom. But it really made killing all the soldiers in the imperial city a test of ones abilities. Going to guards barracks with nothing but an elven dagger and your magic, now that was great stuff. Took me about an hour to finally kill everybody using invisibilty and a meagre restoration spell. (slash twice, run backwards, become invisible, run behind them, do it again.)

But I must say that wth morrowind, exploration was so much better, and even more fun. Seriously, that map was a very nice thing to have. In oblivion, it was so...bland. You walk soe, you see some flowers, a tree, and a bandit with daedric everything. You kill the bandit, take the flowers, get bored, and fast travel to get things over with...:no:. And I have noticed that nagging sense of urgency that makes completing the sidequests a test of one's concious. You almost feel guilty leaving the world to die while you galavant your way through incrdibly simmilar caves and worm your way to the top of every single guild when you shouldnt be able to. ... I miss morrowind...and I wil always play an argonian or a dark elf, just for the sake of nostalgia.

[Krusader]

I enjoyed the environment more in Morrowind. Maybe because the game made me feel like more of an outsider. Also enjoyed the fast traveling system there, with silts or boats.

But standing on the highest peaks of Jerall Mts in Oblivion and seeing all Cyrodiil before you was fun too. And riding on a horse was fun as well. As someone else said, a mix of Oblivion & Morrowind would be the best TES5.

[rvg]

Muth-sera...

I loved that greeting.

[Sheogorath]

Muth-sera...

I loved that greeting.

Swi'it!

[Furunculus]

morrowind was the better game.

[Vladimir]

N'wah!

(Looks suspiciously like the other n-word. No?)

[Guru]

Hope the voice acting is going to be better in TES 5 than it was in Oblivion... That was some terrible stuff. Oblivion's dark elves' voice? Argh. Morrowind's voice acting was way better.

[lars573]

Even though it was 70% the same voice actors in both games?

[Guru]

Even though it was 70% the same voice actors in both games?
Yeah, that's my opinion. They better have Jeff Baker doing the dunmer male voices this time. Oh, and I really don't want to hear Craig Sechler's (Oblivion male elves) voice anymore. Really.
I recon part of the annoyance in Oblivion was caused by the fact that the same actors voiced way too many characters and there was a lot of talk. Too much for so few actors; same man voicing four races? In Morrowind there was a lot less voice acting, it didn't get that boring and repertitive, the characters didn't really speak.

Anyway, I'm hopeful. The quality of voice acting has got better in Fallout 3 (by Bethesda too, some same voice actors). I'm hoping this development will continue in the next TES. And I do hope they'll manage (and understand) to hire more voice actors. It's kind of blaah when whole races are voices by the same people. In my opinion anyway.

[lars573]

Voice actors cost money though. Which you could say was Oblivions problem with dropping text blocks and going for full voices for everything. They went whole hog on getting Patrick Stuart (Uriel Septium VIII), Terance Stamp (Mankar Camoran), Sean Bean (Martin Septium) for major speaking roles. So they had to go with 1 person for multiple races to save time and money. Even though with voice acting you get a seperate payday for each character you voice. Maybe background voices are different.

I'll be happy as long as they keep Wes Johnson (imperial male, Lucien Lachance, Shivering Isles Sheogorath, Fallout 3's Mister Burke) he's a great performer (to me). I wouldn't mind Jeff Baker being back

[Krauser]

Swi'it!

I have memories of that in Morrowind. To this day I only remember one time hearing this in Oblivion. I liked how in Morrowind everyone hated you at first. In Oblivion you just start out unknown but everyone's all nice. There's just no depth to it.


Voice actors cost money though. Which you could say was Oblivions problem with dropping text blocks and going for full voices for everything. They went whole hog on getting Patrick Stuart (Uriel Septium VIII), Terance Stamp (Mankar Camoran), Sean Bean (Martin Septium) for major speaking roles. So they had to go with 1 person for multiple races to save time and money. Even though with voice acting you get a seperate payday for each character you voice. Maybe background voices are different.

I'll be happy as long as they keep Wes Johnson (imperial male, Lucien Lachance, Shivering Isles Sheogorath, Fallout 3's Mister Burke) he's a great performer (to me). I wouldn't mind Jeff Baker being back

Yeah, they really wasted their money on Patrick Stewart. He did a good enough job but they probably had to pay him $50,000 and his voicework was over in the first 30 minutes of the game. They probably could have doubled the race voice actors with that extra money.

[Guru]

Voice actors cost money though. Which you could say was Oblivions problem with dropping text blocks and going for full voices for everything.
Yeah, well, the text boxes, it's a two-sided issue. If they had kept the box system, it would probably have gotten called old-timed or obsolete, and the text box system can be a bit "heavy" for less patient people if you know what I mean. But the other side of the coin is that with the text box, it'd have been possible to make more (unique) dialoque for everyone. And you wouldn't have to listen to some certain voice you've grown to hate.
I don't think there's goin' back to the box system anymore though. I guess they could afford the actors, with so many successful games they've made. Reminds me of The Witcher's Enhanced Edition, this talk about voice acting. That thing had all dialoque in like 10 languages.. :dizzy2:

[Sheogorath]

What bugged me most about Oblivions voices, Dunmer aside, was the way that some people CHANGED VOICE ACTORS MID SPEECH.

The beggars seemed especially prone to fits of vocal multiple personality disorder.

[Raz]

What bugged me most about Oblivions voices, Dunmer aside, was the way that some people CHANGED VOICE ACTORS MID SPEECH.

The beggars seemed especially prone to fits of vocal multiple personality disorder.

True, so very true. It was absolute stupidity that a beggar would come up to me in an old, sickly lady's voice saying "Ss-pare a coin for an old begg-ar?" and as soon as I hand it over she'd suddenly become this healthy, happy youth of a woman saying "Thanks darl!". I gave my money to a sickly woman in need, not a fraudulent con artist. :no:

[lars573]

What bugged me most about Oblivions voices, Dunmer aside, was the way that some people CHANGED VOICE ACTORS MID SPEECH.

The beggars seemed especially prone to fits of vocal multiple personality disorder.
Actually they didn't. If you had a Dunmer beggar it was the same womans voice no matter what she was saying. What would change was the delivery of the dialouge. Oblivion broke up the background voices into small senteces. When a beggar asked you for a coin it was delivered in a certain way. Tired and beaten by the world was the usual way. When you gave them a coin however it changed to an exuberantly happy thank you. But it was the same voice that said each line. Unless you were playing the PC version and the sound files got screwed up.

[Krauser]

Actually they didn't. If you had a Dunmer beggar it was the same womans voice no matter what she was saying. What would change was the delivery of the dialouge. Oblivion broke up the background voices into small senteces. When a beggar asked you for a coin it was delivered in a certain way. Tired and beaten by the world was the usual way. When you gave them a coin however it changed to an exuberantly happy thank you. But it was the same voice that said each line. Unless you were playing the PC version and the sound files got screwed up.

Yeah I think they just tried to reuse as many lines as possible. That same VA probably did a "thank you" for a regular women NPC. Then they just took that same sample for every other elf "thank you". I think I saw an interview of the lead sound guy for the game. He said something like they wanted full voice overs but they didn't want to give him the budget to do it well. He had to compromise. He also said he never supported full voice overs, but did what he was told.

[lars573]

Well that was fairly obvious. Truth is when I heard they were doing full vocies for all NPC's I though it would be a certain way. And then I got Oblivion and popped it into my 360, sure enough it was exactly what I though it would be. Same VA for every NPC of a certain race. Or in the case of the Merrick races 2 VA's, one man and one woman, doing ALL the elven voices. With variations in the delivery. When you talk to a Nord or Orc woman, it's Linda Carter everytime.

[TinCow]

Anyway, I'm hopeful. The quality of voice acting has got better in Fallout 3 (by Bethesda too, some same voice actors). I'm hoping this development will continue in the next TES. And I do hope they'll manage (and understand) to hire more voice actors. It's kind of blaah when whole races are voices by the same people. In my opinion anyway.

Heh, in the beta of FO3 I played, they didn't have all the voice acting done yet, so some of the lines had just been done in monotone by random Bethsoft employees to give it some filler. There was one particular part I remember at the very beginning while you're escaping Vault 101, two random people are gunned down by vault security and the 'temp' voice acting for it was so utterly hilarious that I told them they should forget the paid voice acting and keep it that way. Unfortunately, they didn't listen, and the final version was far more 'dramatic' and far less entertaining.

[Guru]

Heh, in the beta of FO3 I played, they didn't have all the voice acting done yet, so some of the lines had just been done in monotone by random Bethsoft employees to give it some filler. There was one particular part I remember at the very beginning while you're escaping Vault 101, two random people are gunned down by vault security and the 'temp' voice acting for it was so utterly hilarious that I told them they should forget the paid voice acting and keep it that way. Unfortunately, they didn't listen, and the final version was far more 'dramatic' and far less entertaining.
:laugh4:

Talking about FO3 voice acting, I really liked the super mutant dialoque, Uncle Leo and Fawkes. But so far my favourite is Harold. His voice acting, appearance and story... Hoping we'll see stuff like that in the next TES. :yes: