Sugestion about Roman Reforms and Carthage

[vpapako]

In EB we experienced for the first time(I guess) that marian reforms dont just give u different troops but also somewhat reflect the depth of the reform. Before the marian reforms u can't recruit roman troops outside of Italy. After the reforms every roman citizen is welcome to join the army. My seggestion is that perhaps in EB II this could possibly go a step further. For example in the camillan era the army was composed of land owners and they were distinguished among hastati, principes and triarii acoording to the amount of land they owned. Maybe in EB II it could be possible to associate the farming level in a region with the units that can be produced there. Also pre-Marian troops could cost the region a reduction in farming production, since land owners leave their crops and fields to join the army. Post marian troops could have the opposite effect since they joined the army because they had no other job to do and received land when they retired.
I also wonder if there is a way to reflect in the game the fact that Carthage rarely recruited troops and filled their land forces by hiring mercenaries. Perhaps the barracks can recruit a very limited number of Carthaginian troops and the regions Carthage in africa and new Carthage in spain could have access to unlimited mercenary troops. And of course Carthage should begin the game with a large amount of gold and rich trade income to be able to pay for the mercenaries, which is what historically happened.
Perhaps they could get a reform that creates the ability to produce native armies if they survive the punic wars.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This isn't how we are going to handle the Roman reforms, however they will be more subtle than in EBI. I'd rather not say more.

[Allhopeforhumanity]

One thing I'm slightly curious about is if a faction gets a unit overhaul after completing a reform, will other factions be able to recruit the reformed units if they conquer homeland regions of reformed factions?

I know its possible to update merc pools in medieval based on the year, but is it possible to update based upon a triggered reform?

The first question will likely end up being rhetorical and I don't, by any means, expect an answer before it's available, but rather, I hope it is something that is considered.

[Cyclops]

I read somewhere that M2TW allows faction-specific merc pools, so there is an opportunity to really cut back on Karthi factional troops and force them to hike out and buy the bulk of their boys in the marketplace. They could have more mercs (both variety and quantity) to reflect their mercenary-usuing attitude to war.

Thje same mechanism might apply for certain famous "allied" forces like Galatians, Illyrians and Agrianes (the Mako/Epirote variety), available as mercs rather than in civilised cities but only to historically appropriate employers.

That, to me, is a lipsmacking prospect. I hope it works out.

[A Very Super Market]

The Karthis have a lot of regionals, which sort of lends itself to be viewed as mercenaries. Ideally, they should cost more than normal, but I think that would mean either increasing the cost for everyone (Which wouldn't solve anything) or making a new unit for each.

[Watchman]

'Sides, if mercs are actually more costly than levies or militias is anything but cut and dried. After all, you're just expending cold hard cash (and usually generous looting rights) to hire some foreigner to fight under your banners. That means you're not taking your own people out of productive labour, say farming, and as the French wryly observed in the 1500s, also means your potential enemies have one less man to hire against *you*...

Also, enrolling them as mercenaries was often the most effective way to keep diverse highland tribes and suchlike out of mischief (ie. raiding your stuffs for fun and profit) and make them useful...

[Cyclops]

'Sides, if mercs are actually more costly than levies or militias is anything but cut and dried. After all, you're just expending cold hard cash (and usually generous looting rights) to hire some foreigner to fight under your banners. That means you're not taking your own people out of productive labour, say farming,

Citizen units would agitate to disband whereas mercs serve out a contract. Hard to model that in the engine.

They do cost cash as opposed to classical troops whoe serve at least in part out of citizen/feudal obligation. Of course if the citizen troops are state armed (eg some Macedonian pike units) then there is a cash outlay for equipment.

I like the huge unit size setting because it means manpower matters especially early in the game.

I favour lower costs for citizen units but high upkeep for all units, making the initial purchase cost less of a factor, and making the real question "does my faction have this unit or do i need a merc? " and "can I spare the loyal manpower or do i buy in soldiers and keep the citizens earning?". Of course I lack the skills to mod this and I believ the upkeep cost is hard coded to 1/4 of the purchase cost.



and as the French wryly observed in the 1500s, also means your potential enemies have one less man to hire against *you*...Also, enrolling them as mercenaries was often the most effective way to keep diverse highland tribes and suchlike out of mischief (ie. raiding your stuffs for fun and profit) and make them useful...

On the "hiring rowdies so they are on your side", I sometimes bribe rebels, or at least keep an eye on reb stacks in my empire as a potential force pool. EG inj my current Karthi campaign my allies the Ptolies have sent a friendly halfstack up the Libyan coast. I am tracking them with a FM and an Allied General, and have a diplomat hovering next to a nice mixed Numidian reb stack.

One way to do this might be having mercs on screen as rebs, or to flip that, making the merc pool the reb pool.

The other side is going all in and only allowing players to hire their own citizen/core subjects units in their cities and making them hire their traditional allies and mercs as mercs. Auxilia, Gesaetae etc only available as limited faction specific mercs.