Roman name for Danube

[Aemilius Paulus]

The title says it all. What did the Romans call it? I am writing a paper on the topic of the Romans, and as I was mentioning the situation the Danube it struck me that I never knew its Roman name. Which I cannot find on Google either.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Danuvius fl(umen).

[Aemilius Paulus]

Thanks, ATHN :bow:: :balloon:. A quick Google check confirmed it.

[AlexanderSextus]

I thought it was the Hister.

[Urg]

This is a bit rough:

Tacitus calls it "Danubius" (Germania - throughout) as does Caesar (de bello gallico 6.25)

Pliny the elder calls it "Danuvius" (Natural History, liber iv) as does Horace (Odes)

Ovid uses both Hister and Danuvius (ex ponto, tristia)

I think there were others who also called it Hister. According to Lewis & Short, Hister is a reference to the lower Danube and Danubius is a reference to the upper part.

[abou]

Over time, consonantal V became a labial fricative as it is in English. Previously, in a consonantal sense it sounded similar to the English W. B is a labial plosive, but similar enough to the labial fricative V that you can find them swapping places throughout history.

Danuvius or Danubius? Meh.

[CBR]

But the letter U was not part of the alphabet was it? So either Hister or Danvbivs (Danubius for us modern day people)


CBR

[abou]

V in Latin is either a consonant or a vowel. Modern Latin texts often use V and U to help differentiate between the two. If you were writing a paper on the subject, you would either use the modern, common name or use an Anglicized spelling. Not too many people would be keen on seeing Danvvivs or Danvbivs.

[CBR]

It certainly seems both ways of spelling it was used (Danvvivs and Danvbivs) so take you pick: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/NumisWiki/view.asp?key=DANVVIVS%20COS%20V%20P%20P%20OPTIMO%20PRINC


CBR

[Companion Cavalry]

It was known as (potamos) Istros, and, in some obscure corrupted Greek dialect, (flumen) danuvius.

[Urg]

...and hister

[TheStranger]

But hister is only a part of the danube, not the whole river.

[Maeran]

In this particular case, it means the 'b' in Danubius

[Apázlinemjó]

In this particular case, it means the 'b' in Danubius

It's Danubius. Why? Because there is a Hungarian radio channel with that name. J/K.

[Companion Cavalry]

...and hister

Psh, noob. "Hister" is a corruption of Greek Istros.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It certainly seems both ways of spelling it was used (Danvvivs and Danvbivs) so take you pick: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/NumisWiki/view.asp?key=DANVVIVS%20COS%20V%20P%20P%20OPTIMO%20PRINC


CBR

Well, it would be Danwius if spelled phonetically, if that helps you get your head around it. W is a ligature from medieval Latin, litterally a "Double-V".

[Urg]

Psh, noob. "Hister" is a corruption of Greek Istros.

Corruption or not, the question was what did the Romans call it. It shouldn't come as any surprise that the Romans, like everyone else, used names for rivers and other foreign geographical features that were corrupted forms from other languages.

I'm sure the Greeks did it too. :beam:

[Urg]

Well, it would be Danwius if spelled phonetically, if that helps you get your head around it. W is a ligature from medieval Latin, litterally a "Double-V".

Yea it would be something like dun-oo-wee-ous or dun-oo-bee-ous, with the emphasis on the 'oo'.

[keravnos]

...and hister

Hister was the latinified version of "IΣΤΡΟΣ" its greek name (the greek pronounciation at the time was "histros".

[Companion Cavalry]

Hister was the latinified version of "IΣΤΡΟΣ" its greek name (the greek pronounciation at the time was "histros".

By 272, the letter 'H' did not exist in most dialects Ancient Greek. Its inclusion in modern translations is a purely aesthetical choice, as seen in different renderings of the words Ellinikoi, Etairoi, and Eliopolis, to name a few. A few Greek dialects did preserve the letter, but the groups they belonged to were not in mainstream Hellenic culture.

[abou]

You're forgetting the aspiration diacritic that was used to represent the rough breathing of an H.

For example: in every word that began with Rho. Seriously people, if I see another Romaioi and not Rhomaioi, I'm going to lose it.

[Companion Cavalry]

That is true for English translations, but the point was that in Ancient, as well as modern, Greek the letter is nonexistent. Take for example the word adelphos, written in Greek as ἀδελφός. Notice how there is no H, only Ph, represented by φ. In the word ἀρρυθμία, or arrhuthmia, you can how Rh and Th correspond to the Greek letters Rho and Theta, by themselves only R and T. English adds the H to distinguish between different sounds made by the same letter.

[abou]

Dude, what are you arguing?

[Companion Cavalry]

That there was no letter H in ancient greek. Man, we've gone off-topic :laugh4:

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

You're forgetting the aspiration diacritic that was used to represent the rough breathing of an H.

For example: in every word that began with Rho. Seriously people, if I see another Romaioi and not Rhomaioi, I'm going to lose it.
But EB uses the term "Romaioi" all the time.

Speaking of which, Romaioi Barbaroi :clown:.

[Skullheadhq]

But EB uses the term "Romaioi" all the time.

Speaking of which, Romaioi Barbaroi :clown:.

You mean Rhomaioi Barbaroi?

btw:aspiration diacritic= '
That's what you learn in your first lesson Greek, remember?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yep, Rhomaioi Barbaroi.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

You mean Rhomaioi Barbaroi?

btw:aspiration diacritic= '
That's what you learn in your first lesson Greek, remember?
... kinda pointless since Greek is written with the Greek alphabet, no need to argue about the orthography of a transcription.

[abou]

What matters is that the Greeks had a way to represent (not exactly contemporary) the aspiration shown by the Latin H. So when you write it in the Latin alphabet, you include the H because that is how it was freaking pronounced. You don't include it because of aesthetics - you include it because that is how you properly transcribe the word. It's why Phi and Theta are written as ph and th, not just p and t.

[Skullheadhq]

What matters is that the Greeks had a way to represent (not exactly contemporary) the aspiration shown by the Latin H. So when you write it in the Latin alphabet, you include the H because that is how it was freaking pronounced. You don't include it because of aesthetics - you include it because that is how you properly transcribe the word. It's why Phi and Theta are written as ph and th, not just p and t.

:yes:, we went off-topic.