KotF Conseil du Royaume [Archive] - Page 2

OverKnight

09-03-2009, 10:36

Note: The battle referred to in this post is from a withdrawn save and is not part of game continuity. Nor should this post be considered "canon". I'm leaving what was written for the sake of transparency.

After leaving, Hugues limps back into the Conseil in battered armor, one arm in a crude linen sling.

Well, I surprised the Germans at their siege camp. I managed to kill half of them. Still couldn't break the siege.

He sits with a clatter of metal. Grabbing a goblet of wine, he finishes it in three large gulps. Wiping his mouth the Duc takes in a deep breath and releases it.

Now, if the Germans attack me, I can retreat and the siege, for the moment will be lifted. However, if they still attack Staufen, I will be unable to stop them without reinforcement. They'll bleed some more, but they'll have the Castle.

The Duc smashes the goblet down.

Your call, Seneschal.

The Duc laughs mirthlessly and begins to drink straight from the bottle.

Ramses II CP

09-03-2009, 22:46

Nobles of the realm, word has reached me of the successful negotiation of Princess Constance's release. It further appears that the German Emperor has made an overture of peace alongside freeing my dear sister. I would hear your thoughts on the potential for peace.

Firstly have we repaid the Germans for their treachery against our King? Mon Roi only you can answer this by rights, but more than one German noble has met his end on our swords. I made Mandorf walk fifteen miles through the snow after I captured him, and that's no small humiliation for such a stiff backed prig, and now their Emperor himself faces a siege that can have but one conclusion. If we kill a King, though, there may be no turning back from total war and I must question whether we are prepared to administer all the German lands with William still strong at our backs.

Secondly have we secured defensive borders for the territory we mean to hold? Staufen fell because our laws and finances prevented it's defense. Marseille is in a similar constraint, although I have men in position to keep that city secure, but it will inhibit any further advance on my part. Antwerp is a rich city, and along with Marseille could, in time, provide a flood of trade income... if we can get off a war footing.

Thirdly we must genuinely consider whether or not it is our intent to spend our florins on troops to occupy hostile, foreign lands while native Franks live under English rule. I have strictly observed the King's truce with England, and found it credible, but as the next legislative session nears we must consider conserving funds for a potential end to that truce.

Finally, and perhaps most controversially, I will ask that the idea of the Moorish crusade be reconsidered. Good Christians war with each other while their brothers live under heathen rule. I question if this is truly what God wills, though it was not wrought by our hands or intent.

So, what say you? Shall we now, concertedly, seek peace? Or shall we drive on east to the ends of the Empire?

:egypt:

OverKnight

09-04-2009, 01:55

Hugues speaks.

Talking about peace is grand, but have we had any actual negotiations involving diplomats? I don't recall the Seneschal reporting on any.

Staufen was to be a chit, but we waited too long. What do we offer now? I doubt the Germans will accept peace without the return of some of their taken lands.

If this war goes on longer, I fear that we will begin to lose territory. The King's drive into northern Germany is inspiring, but we have few forces to counter a renewed attack into Lorraine or Bourgogne.

Edit: It appears that we have no diplomats anywhere close to the Empire or their forces.

AussieGiant

09-04-2009, 07:45

Alain stands, glances momentarily at the King and then addresses the Council.

"My Lords, ze King and I 'ave reached an 'in principle' agreement with ze English. It will be ratified officially zis season and very soon.

Wizout saying too much, it does involve an exchange of provinces zat will be to our liking and will create a mostly sound border with our neighbours and ze English.

I do not want to say more at zis time but soon you will receive official word of ze arrangement.

At least zat may help wiz zese discussions."

OverKnight

09-04-2009, 10:41

Hugues laughs.

You are a cruel man Seneschal, to hint at so much and yet say so little.

AussieGiant

09-04-2009, 13:12

Grinning back.

"Yes, I zink I am spending too much time wiz de Rochefort!"

KnightnDay

09-04-2009, 14:12

Will our king, who has been winning glorious battles in the east be making this announcement? As to the thoughts of Prince Louis, I would again ask our king for his opinions on these matters. I realize his majesty has had his hands full with the Germans, but these matters of state are of considerable importance, and to know his majesty's thoughts would be of use to this conseil.

OverKnight

09-05-2009, 06:59

Hugues stands, he sways a bit but steadies himself.

Metz is besieged. Another German army threatens Dijon or Reims. I and the Nobles of Lorraine will do what we can about Metz, but will anyone else act against this threat to our Kingdom?

The Duc glances over to the Bourgogne section of the Conseil, raising an eyebrow before his gaze passes on.

Perhaps the Order? They are here to "protect the welfare of the French people". Oh, but they are busy protecting the welfare of the one Frenchman who is most important. They are in Flanders and Germany.

The Seneschal? He is in Wales. And there is no money for mercenaries. We must build instead, we wouldn't want to short the Germans on kindling.

The Dauphin? On his way, praise the Lord, but not here yet.

The King?

Hugues pauses, something on the tip of his tongue. He closes his mouth with a click of his teeth. After a moment, he speaks again.

The King is otherwise engaged. Though I would hope the threat of excommunication will shift his Majesty's focus to our homeland.

We face the loss of Metz within a season, and another city perhaps within two. What are we going to do about it?

Edit: Need I remind anyone what city is west of Dijon and Reims?

AussieGiant

09-05-2009, 08:03

Alain Grimaces at Hugues words, standing slowly.

My Lord Duc, I wish to personally apologies for not recruiting additional forces in ze last season. Ze situation in Lorraine is dire and I can not explain my complete lack of oversight regarding ze matter.

Wiz ze situation in Dublin nearly untenable, I will move as many men as I can from Bretagne towards your Ducal seat in the coming season.

Ituralde

09-05-2009, 10:24

Simon turn towards Hugues.

Duc de Champagne, if you require the assistance of the Order you just have to ask the Captain of the Order. I am sure we could be of service. Of course for now we have chosen to follow our Roi and will do so until he no longer requires us.

OverKnight

09-05-2009, 11:06

Hugues takes a swig from a wineskin and turns to Simon.

I have stated several times the severity of the situation. I have asked for help several times. I have begged for a comprehensive approach to respond to the German build up in this very chamber!

I have been met with a few mollifying words or silence.

Well the time for words has passed. To Hell with all of you!

Enough is enough! I have had it with these :daisy: Germans in my :daisy: Duchy! I'm going to go kill those :daisy:s and make them rue the day they crossed the :daisy: Rhine!

Hugues stalks out.

econ21

09-05-2009, 11:12

Esteemed Duc de Lorraine, I see the Order as primarily defensive, so I am extremely sympathetic to your call for aid. However, even if we answered your call this season, the Order Company could not reach Metz in time to assist in lifting the siege. If we look beyond this season, the King is arguably more exposed in Frankfurt without our support than you are in Lorraine. Consequently, to speak frankly, I cannot see the Order being able to provide you immediate aid. After the coming Conseil session, our new Captain will doubtless review our deployment in consultation with the King and the Seneschal. Our duty is to march to wherever we are most needed, but discerning where precisely that will be is no easy task and will require careful coordination with leaders such as yourself.

[OOC: posted while OK was posting. No doubt Hermant was vainly speaking as the Duc was storming out.]

AussieGiant

09-05-2009, 12:05

Alain frowns as Hermant makes his address.

He stands, tilts his head to the side, opens his mouth, purses his lips to speak, raises a hand with the index finger pointing towards the centre of the chamber, sucks the air through his teeth, blows out loudly, then shakes his head and slumps back down on his seat.

Madoc, now a brilliant shade of lilac, his head the same height as a seated man, seems slightly confused by the episode, but still gives his master a reassuring lick on the face once Alain resumes his place.

KnightnDay

09-05-2009, 14:49

Thomas, clearly agitated by what has come to pass, stands to speak. He knows that he must not say what he truely believes, lest he forsake a code of conduct that he swore to follow as he came of age.

"Seigneurs, you will excuse me, but my path is set. My place is by the side of my lord, the Duc de Lorraine, to whom I swore loyalty and with whom I have fought and will fight to the death if God wills it. Lorraine and its people will be defended, to my last breath. To this I swear."

Thomas then turns and walks almost out of the chambers. He then comes to a sudden stop, overcome by anger. He turns suddenly in the direction of Hermant.

A wise decision to remain at our Kings side. Perhaps he will favor you and the Order with Frankfurt in addition to whatever else he's promised you- for your loyal and faithful service!

He then turns again and leaves the conseil.

OverKnight

09-05-2009, 14:59

Hugues bursts into the Conseil battered and bloodied, he tromps to the center of the room while drinking from a wineskin. As he stops to speak, he sways, barely keeping his feet. Is it blood loss, wine or both?

There are no more Germans left between the Moselle and the Rhine!

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/snakes/zmetzsalvic.jpg
https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/snakes/zsnakevic.jpg

The rest will have to wait until next season. We're back at the ford, though those lazy militia from Reims had to rest at Metz. Made me bring those peasants with me. . .ugh.

The first batch of survivors were ransomed for 2056 florins. That means we can build something! Wooooo!

Second batch the Germans didn't want to pay for, so. . .

Hugues makes a loud and sloppy throat cutting gesture.

Bertin and Thomas fought like lions! I love those guys! They make me so proud!

That's how we do it in Lorraine!

Wooooo. . .

Mid exclamation, the Duc pauses, gags noisily and starts to look a bit ill.

I don't feel so good.

The Duc keels over with a loud clatter of metal. Reeves, always in the background, drags him to the Lorraine benches and attempts to revive him.

KnightnDay

09-05-2009, 16:10

While Reeves tends to Hugues, Thomas now enters the chambers, a look of utter exhaustion upon him. Contained in the butcher's bill- fourteen of his bodyguard dead, paid by Thomas. His duc's loss was greater still.

Stopping at Lorraine's bench, he points to Hugues de Champagne and proclaims:

"There my brothers, is the rock of the Moselle. The Kaiser's men cannot break him. Lorraine is safe while he lives; he fights as though the fury of tens of thousands stand behind him!"

Thomas then slowly walks to take his seat.

"Reeves, when you have a moment, please hand me the duc's wineskin. I think I need it."

Ramses II CP

09-05-2009, 16:30

The Prince enters and regards the scene in some amazement before speaking,

Good Duke de Champagne if you had but waited a little while I and the men who have kept up with me would've been delighted to join you lads in routing the German dogs. Only a few mounted sergeants are with me yet, but Sir de Perrone is bringing the rest along at a goodly pace!

I would suggest that we coordinate our next action. As the heart of France now appears secure I would like to ride back and bring de Perrone and the men with him along personally. Do you believe we have time for this? I will trust your 'ground truth' as you have more recently seen the battlefield than I.

:egypt:

econ21

09-05-2009, 16:33

I congratulate the Duc of Lorraine and Chevalier Thomas on their victories. It is clear that fortitude and prowess are among their many virtues. When he has recovered from his exertions, perhaps the good Chevalier Thomas would contemplate the possible virtue of charity in debate.

OverKnight

09-05-2009, 17:09

Reeves looks up from his ministrations. He hands the wineskin to Thomas. At this point, the "Rock of the Moselle" loudly vomits and then turns on his side, still in a deep slumber.

It appears my lord is indisposed.

As to the Dauphin's question, the current situation looks like this:

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/1095sit.jpg

There is still a German army under Captain Hans that is in the heart of our territory. He could strike us at the ford, at the Prince even, or siege Reims, Dijon. . .possibly even Paris. If he attacks the Duc at the ford, there is little anyone can do I believe. Though men could be moved in to reinforce him, but it is most likely not needed. The Dauphin could combine with Sir Perrone if he expects an attack. If a city is besieged, we will have a season to respond. We have enough forces in the area that could converge to break a siege. Of course Hans, if he was an intelligent man, may even retreat to Bern or Staufen.

The survivors of Metz are in Staufen and some of those who survived the battle with Duc Raymond outside Dijon are encamped in Bern, though Hans may have a majority of these. These forces are still considerable but are perhaps depleted. They could march again however.

The next move of our enemy will dictate my Duc's actions. However, I am confident that if he is able to, he would choose to attack. With the caveat that any action against a German settlement or army in their territory would bring the spiritual wrath of the Pope down upon us.

Edit: It does appear his Majesty might be in for a rough patch if he chooses to hold Frankfurt. I'm quite sure he has anticipated this though.

KnightnDay

09-05-2009, 19:34

Thomas takes a few gulps of wine, and feeling a bit refreshed as a result, rises and stands by Reeves. He looks down on his now-slumbering duc. Gently placing his hand on the duc's head and with a smile, Thomas quietly says to Reeves.

"Quite indisposed as you say. Yet under his leadership he saved us all from death's grip, I certainly could not have done so, and I dare say my doubts are that Bertin would have fared better."

Thomas then turned away, and took three or four steps away from the scene.

"Chevalier Hermant, I welcome the opportunity to have a debate on any subject you would care to indulge in. I have no shame in saying I greatly prefer that sort of challenge than the one we have just come from."

econ21

09-06-2009, 00:43

Chevalier Thomas, forgive me - I tried to be elliptical and ended up merely being obtuse. I do not wish to challenge you to debate. I am merely recommending that in an esteemed place such as the Conseil, we adopt the principle of "charity in debate". That is to say, if a man disagrees with us, we are charitable about his motives and his speech. He may not say what we want to hear nor do what we want him to do. Nevertheless, unless we know otherwise, we assume his motives are honorable and his speech true. It is easy to accuse a man of base desires and false utterances, but much harder to prove. The falsely accused man will be innocent, while the guilty will deny all bad intent and hide their falsehoods in subterfuge. It is more seemly and more constructive to adopt the principle of charity in debate. Trading words with a base liar is unlikely to be productive however it is done. But if your adversary is in fact an honest man of good intent, the principle of charity in debate can avoid antagonism and advance understanding.

KnightnDay

09-06-2009, 01:46

"I see, Chevalier Hermant, and trust you will pardon that I did not understand the true meaning of your words. I am quite tired. When mon duc appealed for assistance, it was my hope that you might at least offer to inquire among your members if even one might be available to assist us. When that sort of response was not forthcoming, it did weigh most heavily on my mind. Under the difficult circumstances we are facing in Lorraine, I hope you can understand that.

It is the mark of a true gentleman that he measure his words, even in the most challenging of times. I myself am enough of a man to recognize that I have room for improvement in this area."

With that, Thomas bows towards Chevalier Hermant and returns to take his seat.

Ramses II CP

09-06-2009, 05:02

I and my men are now in position to relieve Dijon if it should be brought under siege. I am uncertain if we could reach any other core cities, but I will ride out alone if necessary. None should fear to ask my aid, I will serve under any man who defends France for God and King!

:egypt:

econ21

09-06-2009, 16:31

I am grateful for the Prince's arrival at Dijon and wish him every success in defending our Kingdom.

Chevalier Thomas, I understand your situation. But let me also explain mine: the Order marches under its Captain. It is not always practical to debate operational matters while on campaign. In moments of calm, such as in this Conseil, I am a great believer in consultation. But out in the field, where decisiveness and swift action are at a premium, I believe in command. When I heard your Duc's request, I personally - as Lieutenant acting in lieu of my Captain - assessed the situation. That is when I found my Company was too far from Metz to be of aid this season and that the King was menaced in Frankfurt by a substantial German army, with only two companies of mounted sergeants to support him.

But this issue raises a larger one - the planning and conduct of military operations throughout the Kingdom. At present, each army appears to be acting semi-autonomously - moving at its commander's whim. This risks inefficiency - for example, suppose all armies were to march to Metz or Dijon, when only one was required and leave other areas undefended. I say with all frankness, had I been able to reach Metz this season, I probably would have marched there - leaving our beloved King exposed, unnecessarily it now seems - given the skill of Lorraine's brave defenders.

I would suggest we consider the benefits of a more unified command structure. The office of the Seneschal is ideally placed to undertake this role - organising the planning and implementation of our military campaigns. I suggest that candidates for the post in the coming Conseil give some thought to this idea and how it might be made operational. If it is part of their campaign manifesto, it may give them more authority when they seek to direct our great Lords and army commanders. For my part, I believe the Order Company would happy work within such a national command structure. Afterall, it was to provide a national armed force, that the Order was formed.

_Tristan_

09-06-2009, 17:15

The King steps in the Conseil chambers.

Mes Seigneurs,

I wish to congratulate all of you for your valiant conduct on the fields of battle. France will have nothing to fear in the coming years if we can keep maintain such a high standard of valour. For having witnessed it with my own eyes, the bravery of the Order knights is to be commanded. I'd be grateful if they were to join me in Frankfurt to help defend it against the Imperials or to rout any remnants of the Imperial army lingering on what is now French soil.

Anyway, I hope our war with the Germans to be at an end soon.

Heinrich the Heathen, who had wished to defy his Holiness, the Representative of God on Earth, now faces his Creator's judgment. I feel my mission is accomplished, which also seems the way Sa Sainteté sees it, putting us under threat of excommunication if we failed to refrain from further assault on the Reich. So I encourage all of you to refrain from laucnching further assault on German hodlings, though that doesn't mean defendng our own against their assaults.

I do not doubt that once the army attacking Metz has been defeated we will not see further German incursions in our lands, though with Mandorf taking the throne of the Kaiser, we cannot be sure... We can trust him to bear us a grudge, Louis, non ?

However, I am angry... Because all my efforts to make our Royaume whole again, or as close to it as can be, have been spoilt through the lack of efficiency of our Senechal.

I had managed to secure a deal with Guillaume concerning the return of Caen and Angers to our fold for provinces that hold no intrinsic value to us, Caernavon (overseas and surrounded by the English) and Valencia (too far from our homeland to be easily defended). This was sweetened with an offer of alliance and us paying tribute to England for the next ten seasons. A price I was more than willing to pay for such a gain.

Now, I can't decide if it was a fumbling attempt by our Senechal to carry out this deal or a deliberate attempt to sabotage it but the diplomat chosen for the task is less than skilled, some even call it awkward... I feel this was not the most adquate man to chose for this important mission... I feel he may have gravely insulted my cousin Guillaume, provoking his refusal...

Though I hardly understand the motivations behind such an act, as his would have made Bretagne once again a full part of the Royaume rather than a French island cut off from the main land by a sea of English swords, I cannot but see the ill will displayed by our current Senechal in carrying out my wishes or those of the country.

I had asked Duc Alain to make everything in his power to grab Dublin under the nose of the Scots and English smoething which could have been easily accomplished had he managed to seal that alliance with England. We could then have offered to return Dublin for Bordeaux, maybe sweetening the deal once more with florins or military access, as can only be done among allies.

I cannot but see also the neglect of our Capital where only a market has been built during the whole term of our Senechal, while several of our settlements have seen more than their fair share of building... Does our Senechal expect us to impress the world if our Capital is nothing but a pigsty ?

You even failed the Duc of Lorraine by "forgetting" to recruit the men he so direly needed, forcing to fight heroically to defeat the German hordes unleashed on our lands... Something for which I wish to thank him with all my heart.

Thanks to his efforts and my own drive through German lands, our Royaume could have achieved this very season to be the equal of Charlemagne's Empire extending from the Pyrenees to Flanders, from the Atlantic to Swabia. It seems this dream of mine will have to wait.

Duc Alain, I'm sorely disappointed in you... I had thought you had what it took to be a great Senechal, a man that had all it needed to rise to the top and bring his House up with him... It seems I've been duped in thinking so...

It seems our Royaume will need a man with a stronger will to lead it in the next seasons. One that will see the sense of following his King's directions, if not to the letter, at least in his intent...

The King's demesne has been greatly enlarged by our campaigns this term... These lands do not belong to me solely... They belong to all of us who fought for our Royaume. So I'll ask the Ducs, knights and all who feel entrusted to hold some of these lands in my name to make themselves known, either here publically or in a private audience, to lay their claims before so that I can assess their validity and the claimant merits in determining how these lands will be allotted.

This will be done before the start of the next Conseil session, to allow some of our still landless nobles to have a chance to gain some and run for the position of Senechal.

OverKnight

09-06-2009, 18:02

Reeves's eyes widen. He redoubles his efforts to awaken Duc Hugues. With a grunt, he awakens and the two have a hurried conversation. The Duc then shuffles forth to speak.

Uh. . .right. First, thank you for the praise your Majesty. Just doing our part.

He shakes his head trying to clear the cobwebs.

Second, I can't speak to a lot of what has been said, but Duc Alain did meet my prioritizations for men. It's just that due to our resources, it would have been peasants or militia, no archers or cavalry. There was one time I was refused mercenaries, but that was more than balanced out by the time he granted me money to hire them to defeat the Germans at Staufen.

Duc Alain has been straight with me.

With respect, mon Roi, the only Seneschal whose performance would be completely satisfactory to your Majesty, would be, well, your Majesty.

AussieGiant

09-06-2009, 19:09

A rye smile cross Alain's features as the King makes his speech.

That smile continues as he stands, the parchment he holds in his hand folded carefully and precisely, then slowly and with great care torn in to equal parts.

With a even and ironic lilt to his voice he addresses the Council as a whole.

My King, Dauphin, fellow Duc, lords of ze realm.

I was going to provide a summary of ze last 15 years and 'and zis report to ze next Seneschal, whoever 'e may be.

While holding the gaze of the attending nobles he absently holds the torn parchment out to which Medoc proceeds to eat with just a few gulps.

'owever, it seems zere is no need. Our King 'as made 'is will known and zere is clearly no need to add anyzing furzer. I did as I was instructed to ze best of my ability.

As a result, 'ere openly and publicly in zis chamber, I, Duc Alain of Bretagne make no claim to any of ze lands 'eld in ze King's demesne. I will leave to ze rest of you to stake your claims at ze Kings pleasure and to rule in 'is name over zese lands.

I would simply ask ze King to consider ze claims, which may come from ze nobles of Bretagne, and 'opefully put aside 'is zoughts towards me and allow zem to reap some rewards for zeir valiant efforts.

God save France, God save ze King.

Alain sits.

_Tristan_

09-07-2009, 12:15

Having listened to Duc Alain reply to his criticism, the King speaks again.

It is now time to take into account our conquests and reward the Maisons du Royaume with the lands they helped us acquire for the greater good of France.

The King's Demesne has been much enlarged by these recent additions and now has come the time for me to share it with you, mes Seigneurs.

Of all our conquests, only Frankfurt and Marseille have not yet been ratified by the Conseil and thus cannot be allocated. Nevertheless, let me say that should these provinces be ratified I intend to offer Frankfurt to the Duchy of Lorraine.

Marseille will remain the propriety of its conqueror, my son Louis and the House of Aquitaine.

There remains in the King's Demesne five regions to be handed out : Bruges, Antwerp, Caernarvon, Zaragoza and Valencia.

Zaragosa is to be given to my son Louis and the House of Aquitaine, as should only be fitting.

Antwerp is to be given to the Ordre de la Fleur de Lys, as a base for their headquarters, as a reward for the good service they provided at my side.

Bruges will remain for now into the King's Demesne, as I intend to oversee its building to become a major trading centre personally.

As for Caernarvon and Valencia, these will have to remain into the King's Demesne. The first one ws never intended to be a lasting addition to our Royaume but rather as a way to show Guillaume what it felt to have a foreign power at his throat. It was intended as a bargaining chip with England towards the return of English-held French territories. The second is too distant from our homeland to be easily defensible should the Moors prove more aggressive than they've been these past years and choose to push north. Better leave Guillaume to deal with them first.

I'm sure that under the proper guidance, the deal that was reached between Guillaume and myself can still see the light and will allow us to give lands to Houses that have been neglected until now.

Ituralde

09-07-2009, 12:49

Simon bows before the King.

In the name of my brother Knights I thank your for rewarding the Order of the Fleur de Lys with the gifting of Antwerp. Posession of land will enable us to serve the Royaume even better in the future. With land comes power and the possibility for one of our members, who holds the land during Council to run for the position of Seneshal. I am sure that the widening of the field of contestants for this most venerous office can only benefit France as a whole.

I thank his Majesty once again and also congratulate the other Nobles to their new possesions. France has prospered may it continue to do so!

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-07-2009, 14:10

As a member of the house of Aquitaine I am also thankful to his majesty for allowing us Zaragroza, and Marseilles. We will not disappoint him, and the cities will become shining examples of our nation.

AussieGiant

09-07-2009, 14:43

Alain stands and bows to ze King.

I would state for ze record 'ere zat ze English are still open to negotiations wiz us. Ze next Seneschal will most likely be able to obtain ze conditions for a land exchange upon a simple meeting.

_Tristan_

09-07-2009, 14:55

Philippe acknowledges Alain's word with a simple nod.

Exactly the reason why both Caernarvon and Valencia have not been handed out to the Houses. I hope the deal with my cousin Guillaume can be finalized in the next term.

Had you done this yourself Alain, rather than wait on the next Senechal to fulfill your mission, there would have been lands for your House in this.

Now, I'm not one to hold grudges for long, and I may have been a bit harsh earlier... I spoke in anger... You've done what you could to keep the kingdom afloat and aside from your diplomatic setbacks, you did rather well, all considered.

So if the deal can be brokered next season, I'll reward your House with one of these newly exchanged lands.

I wouldn't be doing France a favour by antagonizing one of her Duke, would I ?

AussieGiant

09-07-2009, 15:08

Alain bows formally to the King.

You may antagonise whom ever you wish and hold grudges for as long as you would like your Majesty.

You have said what you thought, your meaning is clear.

Ze good news is zat ze situation is not fatal and ze next Seneschal will be able to fulfil your orders.

Perhaps ze nobles of Bretagne can join ze Order and gain some experience against ze Roman Empire.

I will retire to Rennes.

OverKnight

09-07-2009, 19:38

Hugues bows to the King but casts a glance at Alain while doing so.

Thank you, your Majesty.

Perhaps I should adopt the title of Marquis? It seems I am now a lord of le Marche du Rhin.

Edit: Pending Conseil approval that is.

Zim

09-08-2009, 06:08

A nervous looking functionary makes his way to the dais in the center of the Council Chamber.

"The 2nd Conseil du Royaume. It shall close for voting on the 10th of September at 21:00 PST, so make your edicts, amendments, and announce Seneschal candidacies while you can."

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 06:36

The King takes a scroll handed out by a scribe and reads aloud.

Edict 2.1 : The settlements of Marseille, Frankfurt and Antwerp will be incorporated into the Royaume. The settlement of Caernarvon will also be incorporated insofar as it stretches the extent of Edict 1.2.

Edict 2.2 : No further attacks are to be made on the Reich for the next Senechal term and suitable negotiations will be held with the Kaiser to regain a state of neutrality. Defending against attacks from the Reich doesn't impinge on this Edict.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 06:45

Hugues speaks.

I second both edicts.

I know I don't want to be denied communion. I assume that attacking German forces that enter our lands is allowed by this Edict, mon Roi?

I'll have more to say once Reeves gets me the latest reports.

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 07:48

Another scroll is handed to the King by the scribe.

Edict 2.3 : A diplomat will be sent to Rome at the earliest opportunity. It is important that we build back the best of relations with the Holy Father, in the wake of his threat of excommunication.

Proclamation 2.1 : Any settlement bought from a foreign power (OOC : AI faction) will be automatically incorporated into the Royaume.

Edict 2.4 : A treaty will be signed with Guillaume of England concerning the return to the French crown of the settlements of Caen and Angers. Negotiations will be held also for the return of Bordeaux.

Ignoramus

09-08-2009, 10:48

Gaspard de Neufville rises to speak.

"Bons messieurs, during the time of Duc de Alain as Seneschal, the royaume has expanded considerably. Land to the east has been reclaimed from our German neighbours, and the lordships of northern Spain have been returned to Frankish rule."

Pausing for a moment, Gaspard continues.

"However, during such a rapid expansion, we have had little time to build up the royaume and bring prosperity to our lands. Only now, having brought florins into the roi's coffers, do we have enough wealth to improve this land for the better.

Churches, markets, ports - not to mention barracks, stables, and headquaters for siege engineers - can and should be now built across the realm. Such expansion of our towns and châteaux will strike fear and respect into the hearts and minds of all the roi's enemies."

Looking each noble in the eye, Gaspard pause before continuing.

"Bons messiuers, I am willing to take upon the office of Seneschal, and carry out the faithful governing of the royaume in the interests of our roi and this assembled conseil.

I will see that due resources will be sent to the nobles fighting on the frontier with the Holy Roman Empire, while securing our other borders with sufficient men and supplies to ward off any sudden attack.

I also pledge to begin the construction of a royal navy. This navy shall be under the command of the roi, and will be initially built in the excellent ports of Bruges and Antwerp, once they be properly furnished. We cannot allow our royaume to be without either naval transport or a suitable defence against marauders that come across the depths as the Vikings of old.

As Seneschal, I would seek to maintain a healthy relationship with His Holiness and the Holy Sea, and begin to organise emissaries at all the major courts of Europe. Such communication is vital for the swift conclusion of diplomatic affairs, and will increase our contact with neighbouring royaumes.

As Captain of the Order de la Fleur de Lys, I also pledge to lead mon fellow chevaliers into battle at mon roi's command. I will serve where he wishes me to, and we will uphold the honour of our roi's name.

Finally, I pledge that if elected, I will govern fairly and equally among all the Duchies and the Order. I am not interested in favouritism, but will govern in the best interests of all.

Merci, bons messieurs."

Gaspard de Neufville resumes his seat.

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 10:58

Alain folds his arms and leans back in his seat, with a rye smile and a look of some contempt he glances around at any other nobles who may run for the position.

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-08-2009, 11:04

Yvon Looks up

Ahhh, I second Edicts 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and Proclamation 2.1.

but on 2.4 I have to disagree. The English have already proven to us they do not want a fair deal. We can blame Duc Alain de Rohan all we want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that the English enjoy having France in a stranglehold.

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 12:28

As Yvon finishes, the King answers.

Not a fair deal ? Who are you to question the fairness of a deal when this deal has been brokered by your King ? Don't you think we'll benefit from this more than it will cost us ? Have you taken into account the costs of maintaining troops on our borders with the English and the current length of that border ? If we minimize one then we can minimize said costs, money that can serve to improve our lands and pay the upkeep of our soldiers fighting against the Reich.

And we can excuse Duc de Rohan all we want but I concluded a deal with my cousin Guillaume and it is only through the fault of our diplomat, chosen by our Senechal, that the deal could not be sealed.

Hence the need for this Edict to finally seal that deal, a deal which will much benefit France as a whole, returning to her bosom provinces that had been lost.

And as strangleholds come, I had hoped to have a similar stanglehold on England by way of taking both Caernarvon and Dublin, forcing Guillaume's hand in restoring to us our mainland provinces, but it seems the odds were too great for the men of Bretagne.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 13:27

Hugues speaks again.

I will second Edict 2.3 and 2.4.

I would prefer to preserve the power of the Conseil to ratify any new province, no matter how it is acquired. If urgent, we can always vote to ratify possible targets of a land swap in advance.

The proposed amendment could be abused by an adventuresome Seneschal. For example if we somehow acquired Scotland in a trade, even if no one but the Seneschal wished to acquire it, under this proposal, the new lands would automatically be part of the Realm.

Yes, something like this would never happen. Scotland of all places! But I use the example to show my point.

Ituralde

09-08-2009, 13:45

The war against the Germans, however just, has put us into a very bad standing with the Holy Sea. Edict 2.2 ensures that it doesn't get worse and Edict 2.3 might improve the situation somewhat. If we truly want to impress the Papacy we will have to show it through our action. We have to repent for waging outright war and claiming the territory of a fellow Christian Kingdom.

In absence of a better way to redeem ourselves I propose the following Edict.

Edict 2.5:
The next Seneshal will send at least three priests to Cordoba, where they will spread Christianity.

Rescuing the infidels from the doorsteps of Hell through holy missionaries will surely redeem us in the eyes of the Papacy. Cordoba is the obvious target, the beating pulsing heart of the heathen threat to Iberia.

GeneralHankerchief

09-08-2009, 13:49

Raynaud de Xaintrailles:

*bursting into the Conseil chamber*

I second Edict 2.5!!!

*He pauses, looking around.*

The Princess is back in France. I will get briefed on the situation and speak more later.

Ituralde

09-08-2009, 13:53

Simon looks at Raynaud a little surprised but slowly nods.

What great news! The Princess has returned, safe and sound I assume? I can't wait to hear your story.

Still looking perplexed he sits down again.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 14:27

Reeves urgently whispers into Hugues's ear. The Duc tries to bat him away like a bothersome fly.

Why in God's name would I want to do that!? I'd rather be drawn and quartered. . .by Elephants! Make yourself useful and get me some wine.

Reeves, undeterred, continues his whispering. The Duc loudly responds.

Damn! Yes, I suppose so. That's a good point.

Reeves continues on.

Alright! Enough! I understand. But you'll do all the paperwork!

Hugues composes himself and stands to speak again.

Hmmm. . .yes. . .ah. . .having consulted with my advisors and after careful deliberation, I have decided to. . .

Hugues shoots Reeves a poisonious glare.

. . .stand for the position of Seneschal.

It's come to my attention that Captain de Neufville may or not be legally qualified for the position. Certainly his claim is stronger than last time, but anything is better than nothing.

Right. . .ah priorities for my term. . .uh. . .yes.

Reeves hands Hugues some parchment.

Well, we seem to be in a spot of trouble with the Pope. Can't allow that to continue. There are already some edicts from the King concerning this, which I have seconded. We must assume a. . .

Hugues sighs audibly.

. . .defensive posture in our war with the Germans. That means no more marching into their land and killing their Emperor or Princes or taking their cities. Of course, they march into our land, they're fair game. We keep what we have taken, but keep the Pope happy. Or as happy as that sour old coot ever is.

Speaking of the war, it took us by surprise. . .

Hugues shoots a quick glance toward the Throne.

. . .well most of us. Which means we don't have the necessary buildings to recruit proper troops. Toulouse is the only place in the Kingdom where even peasant archers can be recruited, peasants! Cavalry is hard to find too. This needs to be addressed.

Now, if 2.2 passes, we'll be trying to make peace with the Germans. But it will take a while to get a diplomat to them and they are an obstinate and bloodthirsty people. . .unlike us of course. Peace is not a certainty. And other threats could emerge; the English, the Milanese and others. We have discovered agents of theirs in our cities. They can't be trusted to keep the peace, even though we are a. . .peaceful people seeking only co-existence.

So we need these military buildings so we can protect our cities, reduce our reliance on mercenaries and provide our Generals with balanced and reliable forces.

Now, that doesn't mean churches and markets are right out, but we need to find the correct balance. You need money for troops, but if you don't have decent troops, you've got nothing. We're playing catch up at this point.

As Seneschal I would also attempt to provide a level of coordination among our military efforts that has been. . .ah. . .lacking. Whether it was the Order sieging Bruges against the wishes of the King or marauding German armies bursting into our heartland, we need better communication between the various factions of the Kingdom. After consulting with field commanders and assessing the situation I would propose a comprehensive strategy for the deployment of armies at the beginning of the season.

Obviously, anyone would be free to ignore me, but it's a start. I was able to work with Duc Raymond in this very chamber to save Dijon, so I've done this before.

Well, That's it for my. . .uh. . .prepared statements. I'd be. . .uh. . .happy. . .to answer any questions the Conseil might have.

The Duc sits and takes a large swig of wine.

KnightnDay

09-08-2009, 14:32

Your majesty's pardon. I wish first thank his majesty for the epic victories he has won against the Reich. They have clearly drawn the attention of those outside the Royaume that the Franks are not a people to be trifled with. We are also appropriately grateful to his majesty that these conquered territories are to be shared among those who have performed due service to the Royaume.

May I suggest that chevalier Yvon be permitted some degree of forgiveness by his majesty for that last statement, because he does not, as put so aptly, know the specifics of this deal, concluded through most skilled and artful negotiation of the respectve crowns. Indeed, I do not. Does anyone share the confidence of his majesty as to what details are contained in this deal? Is our next diplomat merely delivering papers to be signed by your cousin or is there more to it than that?

I too share a certain level of disappointment with the results of our more formal diplomacy to date. Yet I do take into account that the offers alone do not make the diplomat. The skills needed for such a craft take many years to perfect and are not always easy even in more peaceful times when suspicions are not so great among men. I know of the man in Scotland representing us, and I dare say he is fairly new at the game and as a result at times he has difficulty convincing others that the sky is up. Under normal circumstances I would wish he had more time and better circumstances in which to work, but sadly he does not. Were that our princess have been available, perhaps this negotiation could have been concluded some time ago, and it is indeed joyous news she has returned to us once more.

But I stray too far from my question. What specifically must happen in order for this deal to be struck with your cousin, sire?

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 14:37

Hugues stands again.

I second edict 2.5.

Also, if elected Seneschal, I would cede all diplomatic negotiations with the Anglais to the King. His Majesy knows them better than I. This way we would avoid. . .um. . .any misunderstandings.

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 14:38

Alain reacts visibly to the words of the King, though not obvious, the tightening of his features and a slight narrowing of the eyes can be seen to all.

He rises slightly from his seat at the news of the Princess, but quickly resumes his seat in an effort of control.

Finally he shakes his head slightly as Duc Hugues makes his announcement. As the Duc finishes his statement he rises slowly and says in a quite but clear voice.

"I would seem prudent to determine if de Neufville is able to run for ze position of Seneschal."

Glancing at the throne for a moment.

"We would not want any misunderstandings before proceeding on zis and other matters of state."

Ituralde

09-08-2009, 15:25

What misunderstandings? Why shouldn't he be qualified? He holds land given to him by the King. What other qualification does he need?

Vladimir

09-08-2009, 15:48

Speaking of the war, it took us by surprise. . .

Hugues shoots a quick glance toward the Throne.

. . .well most of us. Which means we don't have the necessary buildings to recruit proper troops. Toulouse is the only place in the Kingdom where even peasant archers can be recruited, peasants! Cavalry is hard to find too. This needs to be addressed.

…

So we need these military buildings so we can protect our cities, reduce our reliance on mercenaries and provide our Generals with balanced and reliable forces.

Now, that doesn't mean churches and markets are right out, but we need to find the correct balance. You need money for troops, but if you don't have decent troops, you've got nothing. We're playing catch up at this point.

*Gontran rises to respectfully address the Duc.*

Mon Duc,

You may not be aware that Toulouse is currently capable of training a large number of light cavalry. Construction is underway on stables that will allow us to produce heavy cavalry. Fear not, we can adequately provide for the kingdom.

What the castle currently lacks is the ability to produce adequate infantry. Perhaps an exchange of light horse for spear militia would satisfy our current defensive needs.

Construction takes time and barring any “forgetfulness” on behalf of the Seneschal we can provide you with all your military needs.

:bow:

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 15:52

Alain shakes his head with a rather incredulous look. He seems to be a little more animated than before, perhaps warming to the current topic, his accent thickening.

I seems quite incredible just how transparent ze Order of ze Fleur de Lys is, no?

Turning to Yvon he continues in a slightly condescending tone.

"I am sure my comments wont derail your man becoming ze next Seneschal.

Zis is just a small side show which perhaps provides a small bump in ze road to a preeminent position in ze Realm for ze Order.

You have ze ear of ze right man so...euh...zere is nozing to fear no?

I am simply asking how a province can be 'anded over before it is ratified.

Because...euh...Edict 2.1 'as not been passed, zerefore it is in ze King Demesne at zis time, no?

Or am I just being, 'ow you say..euh, 'inconvenient', no?

Of course I will pardon myself in advance if zis in not seen in a ze spirit of good will...euh, per'aps I 'ave been unduly influenced recently.

Again a glance a the throne.

Per'aps ze his most royal majesty, ze King of France, could make some comment for ze less enlightened nobles of ze realm, no?

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 16:08

The King raises his hand, abruptly stopping all debate around the chamber, as all eyes turn towards the dais.

Mes Seigneurs,

The land has been granted but it has not yet been ratified by the Conseil. So if this Conseil doesn't see fit to ratify it, I'm afraid the Order will be deprived of its land.

Moreover, the land not being officially part of the Royaume pending its annexation cannot be considered a valid enough basis to run for the position of Senechal.

It is not that I do not trust Sieur de Neufville to make a good job of it but I fear that founding his term as Senechal on such unstable foundations would sap his authority and credibility, something which I could not condone.

The position must be one of respect and authority, subject only to the greater authority of the King.

Duc Hugues, I congratulate you on your candidacy.

It seems you will compete against me then in the upcoming election ?

For I will run for the position of Senechal myself.

Some time ago, a very wise remark was made by the Duc de Lorraine, from whom I quote :

With respect, mon Roi, the only Seneschal whose performance would be completely satisfactory to your Majesty, would be, well, your Majesty.

Though that sounds like a truism, I cannot deny that it is full of good sense.

I have convened this body to help in the governance of the Royaume and to elect a man to second me and deal with the day to day burden of administering France.

I do not think that this has been an error, not yet but I should not impose such a burden on men not as well prepared as us Kings and Princes to deal with it. I had not planned for the Senechal to lead the country in times of war... I hadn't even planned to go to war... It has been forced upon us through the treachery of an unknown party and our duty to defend the Holy Father from his German agressors.

I should have convened an emergency session of the Conseil as the war started but I feared words would be less useful than actions and so prefered to ride against our assaillants, knowing that you would prove to France's enemies how strong its knights and soldiers could be when under attack.

But now, it is time for me to face my responsibilities as your sovereign and make every effort to stabilize the situation.
Hence, I will strive to bring peace to our Eastern border and will finalize the deal with William that will reunite Bretagne with the rest of the Royaume, bringing to an end its almost insular isolation. My own involvement as Senechal in negociating these treaties should add some weight and credibility to the negotiating table.

Should our German "brothers in God", for I dare not call them enemies wish to pursue their campaigns against us, they will find us resolute and prepared. Troops will be recruited to help defend our territory and if our coffers' fullness allow, I intend to make improvements to our provinces, mainly by specializing them. I intend notably to establish a second recruitment center in the North and make Bruges the leading trading center of France.

For all of this is my responsibility.

I hope you will give me your confidence in the coming term to lead us to the greater glory that Franks merit.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 16:12

*Gontran rises to respectfully address the Duc.*

Mon Duc,

You may not be aware that Toulouse is currently capable of training a large number of light cavalry. Construction is underway on stables that will allow us to produce heavy cavalry. Fear not, we can adequately provide for the kingdom.

What the castle currently lacks is the ability to produce adequate infantry. Perhaps an exchange of light horse for spear militia would satisfy our current defensive needs.

Construction takes time and barring any “forgetfulness” on behalf of the Seneschal we can provide you with all your military needs.

:bow:

Chevalier, I know Toulouse is our only source of professional fighting men, I do not count peasants from Metz or militia from some of the cities. But it should not be our only one. Men can be recruited easily, but it takes time to bring them to the fighting.

Also if a company of horse needed to be replenished after a battle, let's say outside Antwerp, it would have to travel all the way to Toulouse to be reinforced.

I thank you for your generous offer, an example of the increase coordination we need, and as Seneschal would accept. However, we should have acceptable soldiers available throughout the Kingdom.

Edit: Hugues blathers on until the King's statement penetrates his skull.

Ah, huh. . .um. . .oops. Well, best of luck mon Roi.

The stinkeye that Hugues gives Reeves is one of incredible intensity.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 16:23

They day has turned on the Duc. He appears a bit dumbstruck.

Ah, your Majesty. . .are you assuming the office of Seneschal? Or are you putting me in the horrifically awkward position of competing against my Sovereign in an election that has no secret ballot?

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 16:24

Alain glances at Yvon and Hermant, a smile of knowing surprise on his face.

"Mon ami, I am shocked, and saddened at zis turn of events.

Euh...I apologize like a man wiz no arms at zis small piece of merde zat 'as appeared in ze Order play for power and prestige. I can only throw myself down at your mercy and beg for forgiveness.

A tutor in astrology once said to me; "Alain, you are a prize winning prick and you may 'ave won zis battle, but I will win ze war."

Per'aps it shall be zis way for ze Order. I of course sincerely 'ope zat is ze case."

Turning to Hugues with a rueful shrug.

"I like ze poster you gave me my friend. Per'aps we can change ze date and give it a second run in 15 years no?

Turning to the throne, with perhaps a sincere smile on his face, Alain claps loudly.

Ze King is taking ze philly by ze tail it would seem. Ze ride shall be as smooth as silk from now on!!

It is good to be ze King no?

Long live King Phillip!!

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 16:37

Philippe acknowledges Alain's words with a nod and a somewhat surprised look upon his face. He then turns to face the benches of Lorraine.

Duc Hugues, I have no wish to make use of my prerogative to assume the position of Senechal as is my right... I prefer to keep that opportunity if ever a graver crisis should ever arise, God forbids.

I want to know if I can have the support of my nobles to conduct the policy that shall be best for the Royaume.

You're welcome to contest this, Hugues... And I encourage you to do so but I feel you may have a lot on your hands in the coming years fighting off German incursions if they cannot persuaded to relent... I would not wish you to die through carelessness because your mind would be so burdened by the day to day menial tasks of ruling the Royaume...

And know that I will hold no grudge against those that deem Hugues more competent than your King and cast their votes his way... It would belittle the meaning of this whole institution...

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 16:44

Alain laughs loudly at the most recent remarks.

Your majesty...ueh, would you be willing to stake a wager on ze ability for any man in zis council to successfully contest and win ze position of Senecschal against you?

You are indeed at least partially correct in my view my liege, because "it would belittle ze meaning of zis whole institution", if you were to contest ze elections without 'assuming' ze office, because no sane man stands a chance in an open election against 'is King.

Alain looks at Hugues and Gaspard with some interest.

Per'aps I am wrong?

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 16:46

Hugues's amazement turns to a grimace. The grimace turns to a wry smile. The wry smile to a predatory grin. His gaze is now fully focused on the King. He does not notice Reeves desperately trying to get his attention.

Your Majesty, how could I, as a loyal vassal, deny you a bit of sport? I hope the Stag will provide the Hunter with some amusement before he is inevitably felled by the hounds.

The Duc laughs and bows.

KnightnDay

09-08-2009, 17:10

Thomas stands now to address the Conseil.

"I for one find no difficulty in voting for one other than the king in the contest for the Seneschal. Some will call me naive, but in such a matter we are not voting solely for approval or disapproval of the king's offer, but rather answering the question whether we approve of the idea of putting the two powerful offices in the hands of any warrior who finds himself in the thick of battle on so many occasions. Are we to risk all our eggs in one basket? What if, God forbid, a stray arrow or axe blade should meet our king in battle? Then we would be instantly deprived of two offices. Prince Louis would no doubt step in as king well enough, but there would also be a time of transition that could be dangerous to the Royaume. It is for this reason that my own vote would be a carefully considered one."

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 17:14

The King returns Hugues' mirthless grin.

I would expect no less of you, Hugues...

Then turning to Duc Alain

And Alain, do you truly think me so small-minded than I cannot forgive those that will against me ?

The promises of land have been made already... Had I been as small-minded as you portray me, I would have refrained from granting these provinces until after the election as a reward to those "loyal" vassals.

But I want a fair "fight"... Or rather I want to give the "stag" a chance, to quote Hugues.

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 17:17

Hugues smiles.

Yes, let the Stag have his chance.

I seem to be very quotable today. How fortunate for me.

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 17:37

Alain spreads his hands wide and with just a faint degree of insincerity in his tone responds.

I do not zink you small minded at all your Highness. You are nozing if not a broad minded forgiving King of great compassion and honour.

You do us a humble courtesy in granting lands before ze election to zose loyal to 'our' cause.

I am very certain ze Stag shall be given as much fairness as ze royal will allows. Nozing else should be demanded or expected, no?

_Tristan_

09-08-2009, 17:51

The King glares at Alain

Spare me your sarcasm, Alain...

If you cannot bear the just criticism of your Sovereign, for failing to accomplish the tasks he set you, you should at least refrain from insulting him.

Your own House would surely have been one of the best served in the land allotment if you had simply managed to finalize the deal with Guillaume. So do not lay the blame that your House fell short in the distribution... Sweep before your own door, my dear Alain...

OverKnight

09-08-2009, 18:04

Hugues grows serious.

Mon Roi, mon Seignuers I am afraid it has been a long day. I must rest. Perhaps in my absence the Conseil would like to pose questions to the candidates? You know like a real election?

The characters involved should not outweigh the issues facing the Realm. Though this may prove difficult.

Hugues bows and withdraws.

AussieGiant

09-08-2009, 18:05

Maintaining the overly formal tone the young Duc smiles while speaking.

"Euh...sarcasm, you misread me my most esteemed liege.

I am but a failure in your eyes zat is clear and I 'ope ze nobles 'ere 'ave finally understood zat no?

It is of course my pleasure to confirm to everyone present zat I am entirely at fault and would never dream of even zinking of insulting my King. If I 'ave given zat impression I will immediately 'ave someone flogged for my insolence.

Your allotment was nozing short or fair and just my lord. As honour demands I 'ave understood ze lesson and I am in fully support your approach to ze matter towards Bretagne. We are simply not worzy of anyzing and must strive to please you in ze future. I shall begin speaking wiz ze Order to better understand what zat is.

In addition I shall begin sweeping my doorstep immediately.

Pray tell my King.

What am I sweeping?

Vladimir

09-08-2009, 19:10

Pray tell my King.

What am I sweeping?

*cough* codpiece *cough*

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-08-2009, 20:19

Alain shakes his head with a rather incredulous look. He seems to be a little more animated than before, perhaps warming to the current topic, his accent thickening.

I seems quite incredible just how transparent ze Order of ze Fleur de Lys is, no?

Turning to Yvon he continues in a slightly condescending tone.

"I am sure my comments wont derail your man becoming ze next Seneschal.

Zis is just a small side show which perhaps provides a small bump in ze road to a preeminent position in ze Realm for ze Order.

You have ze ear of ze right man so...euh...zere is nozing to fear no?

I am simply asking how a province can be 'anded over before it is ratified.

Because...euh...Edict 2.1 'as not been passed, zerefore it is in ze King Demesne at zis time, no?

I am sorry, but have I become a member of the Order without me knowing? Perhaps you have mistaken for someone else Duc. I for one do not agree with some of the orders methods that is for sure, and so the comparison surely wounds me.

Yvon turns to the king

My King if that is what you believe I will follow you, however I am finding it hard to trust the shifty English with anything. I would be overjoyed if this diplomatic venue was successful, but I have some serious doubts.

econ21

09-08-2009, 22:01

Peace, Chevalier Yvon - has the standing of the Order fallen so low that to be falsely associated with us is regarded as wounding? For my part, I am grateful to the Duc of Bretagne for his service to the realm as Seneschal. And yes, Duc Alain, the Order is very transparent - we are an Order of Chivalry established to defend the Kingdom and serve the King. We do precisely that and no more.

I offer my commiserations to my Captain, Gaspard Neufville, and offer my apologies to him for my having been premature with regard to the Order's possession of Antwerp. Given the unanticipated legal technicality regrading the transfer of ownership, I would humbly request that both candidates for Seneschal regard Gaspard as the de facto governor of Antwerp if the transfer is ratified and the King grants Antwerp to the Order. If the King wishes to establish a military centre in the North, perhaps Antwerp would be suitable? I would urge Gaspard to communicate privately with the King on this matter.

I wish both His Majesty and the Duc of Lorraine all the best in their competition for the post of Seneschal.

woad&fangs

09-08-2009, 22:12

Bertin laughs at Hermant's words.

Antwerp!? A military centre?! Antwerp is a merchant town. It's residents are too soft and flabby to amount to anything in the field. I'll fight alongside the peasants of Metz a thousand times before I trust my life to some "knight" of Antwerp.

OverKnight

09-09-2009, 05:33

Hugues claps Bertin on the shoulder.

Now Baron, the Order must make do with what they have been given, as must we all.

Hugues looks about the chamber.

So, no questions for the Candidates? I'm a bit surprised. I would've thought someone would have raised the topic of a Moorish Crusade again. That was quite popular during the last session.

Or perhaps the topic of the stubborn Scots and their refusal of an alliance, "What's to be done about them?" I can imagine someone asking. And maybe they would have a clever follow up like, "And if we are to deal diplomatically with les Anglais, should we still push for an alliance that may drag us into war with them?"

But actually a question has been asked of one of the Candidates. It was just earlier before his Majesty decided to run.

May I suggest that chevalier Yvon be permitted some degree of forgiveness by his majesty for that last statement, because he does not, as put so aptly, know the specifics of this deal, concluded through most skilled and artful negotiation of the respectve crowns. Indeed, I do not. Does anyone share the confidence of his majesty as to what details are contained in this deal? Is our next diplomat merely delivering papers to be signed by your cousin or is there more to it than that?

. . .But I stray too far from my question. What specifically must happen in order for this deal to be struck with your cousin, sire?

Thomas walked around it a bit, I must admit, but it is a valid question.

Hugues turns to the King.

Your Majesty, what specifically, in lands, money and political agreements, will you offer England for Caen and Angers in Edict 2.4?

Your Majesty seems to have specifics in mind, since you were quite wroth at Duc Alain for not meeting your requirements.

Edit: I suppose I should restate my own answer to this one.

Also, if elected Seneschal, I would cede all diplomatic negotiations with the Anglais to the King. His Majesy knows them better than I. This way we would avoid. . .um. . .any misunderstandings.

If I knew what exactly the King would offer, I might place an upward limit, if the Conseil thought it wise, on what his Majesty could add as a sweetener if the English prove, once again, obstinate.

Oh, Reeves has posted an updated list of Legislation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2330511&postcount=2).

OverKnight

09-09-2009, 06:15

Hugues speaks again.

Ah. . .I've already stated my opposition to Amendment 2.1, so I'll propose this instead:

Edict 2.6: If Caen, Angers or Bordeaux are acquired during this term they shall be considered ratified and an integral part of the Realm.

Cecil XIX

09-09-2009, 06:43

OOC: I propose
Rules Change 2.1: Settlements may not be converted from city to castle, or from castle to city.

I believe I mentioned early that they AI doesn't do this, so I think it's best that we don't do it either in order to minimize our advantages.

Ibn-Khaldun

09-09-2009, 07:02

OOC: I second Rules Change 2.1

Since this is an OOC thing I can second it, right?

econ21

09-09-2009, 12:20

Your Majesty, I wonder if you would consider revising Edict 2.2 so that it is contingent on the Reich remaining within the Church? Suppose the Reich is excommunicated for constantly attacking us and the Holy Father calls a crusade against it. With Edict 2.2, we would be forced to stand aside and watch good Christians die for us while we do nothing. If the Reich becomes an outcast nation, I do not believe we need constrain ourselves in the manner of Edict 2.2.

Ignoramus

09-09-2009, 12:58

Gaspard rises to speak.

Bon messieurs, it has come to mon attention that I am unable to run for the office of Seneschal. This is of little consequence as now that mon Roi has indicated he is standing, I respectfully withdraw my candidacy anyway.

I do apolgise to this esteemed chamber for once again standing in error, for a position so important to the governing of the land. Do forgive me.

On other matters, it has come to mon attention that we have only one decent port, and that is in the Comte de Toulouse. I am concerned that we have no ports capable of sustaining any meaningful trade or providing the rudimentary ships for transporting horses and men upon our northern shores. Indeed, the Duc d'Bretagne was forced to hire shipping in order to make his excursion to Wales. I sincerely hope that we need not be forced to do so again.

Therefore, I propose the following Edict.

Edict 2.7: "During the next Seneschal's term, a port is to be constructed in either Bretagne(Rennes), Flandres(Bruges), or Brabant(Antwerp)."

The cost of such a construction is high, but I believe that the trade alone should be worth the investment."

Gaspard resumes his seat.

Northnovas

09-09-2009, 13:47

A figure rises from the back benches of the Bretagne section...

I second Edict 2.6 and 2.7
They appear to be very sound proposals.

Robert goes back to his seat...

Ituralde

09-09-2009, 13:55

I also second Edict 2.6 and Edict 2.7.

_Tristan_

09-09-2009, 17:41

Having listened silently to the debate, Philippe speaks calmly.

Sieur Mauvoisin, you have pointed a flaw in my reasoning in Edict 2.2. I had taken for granted that his Holiness would send the same warning to the warring factions on both sides of the border and that both would heed his call for peace or truce, should I say.

I did count on Emperor Maximilian to be different from Heinrich and be more pious, but there's nothing to guarantee it. He may be cast in the same mold as his predecessor.

Thus you proposed amendment of my proposal makes sense.

I'll rephrase the Edict.

Edict 2.2a : No further attacks are to be made on the Reich for the next Senechal term and suitable negotiations will be held with the Kaiser to regain a state of neutrality. Defending against attacks from the Reich doesn't impinge on this Edict..Should the Reich be excommunicated, the present edict will be void and agressive action will be authorized on all Imperial assets. If any provinces should be acquired in this fashion, they will be considered ratified.

I'll also give my support to Edicts 2.5 to 2.7, as seconds are not needed anymore.

As to the question of my deal with my cousin Guillaume, I prefer to keep the specifics secret for now and until the Senechal is chosen. Diplomacy is a very sensible matter and telling too much too early may well cause it to fail.

Let us simply say that I specifically had asked the previous Senechal to propose an alliance to my cousin Guillaume as a gesture of goodwill before proposing to make an exchange of our lands, something which the Senechal admittedly didn't do. It remains to determine if that was his fault for not conveying the information to the diplomat he sent or a blunder of the diplomat. Whatever the cause, I consider that the fault is to be laid at the Senechal's feet.

_Tristan_

09-09-2009, 17:58

Philippe suddenly adds

Oh... and I forgot to reconduct Edict 1.11. I wouldn't like some fool-hardy noble to get ideas.

So I propose :

Edict 2.8 : No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar or an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict. Said edict will be suspended if the Seneschal successfully negociates military access or an alliance with England , and while that agreement lasts.

AussieGiant

09-09-2009, 17:59

Alain stands.

Indeed your 'ighness. Zat seems to be where one of ze misunderstanding lie.

I would ask ze assembled nobles a question.

Alain turns to the chamber as a whole.

Should alliance offers be ratified by ze Conseil and not arbitrarily offered, particularly to an old enemy?

econ21

09-09-2009, 18:16

The Duc of Bretagne raises an interesting constitutional question. However, if a candidate for Seneschal stands for election on a platform that includes offering an alliance, then reasonable men would regard that alliance as approved by the Conseil should it elect that candidate. I also would hesitate to call the King's proposed alliance arbitrary. When we are at war on our east, an alliance to keep the peace on our west would appear prudent - not arbitrary. If it paves the way to a rationalisation of our borders, even better - especially for Bretagne.

On a related matter, I second Edict 2.4.

AussieGiant

09-09-2009, 18:44

Alain turns to Hermant.

"I zink you will 'ave to remind me Ser Hermant where I said I would offer an alliance to ze English as part of my term as Seneschal.

I am quite certain I did not.

Alain glances at the throne.

Instead I was instructed to do so by one of god's representatives on earth.

Zat seems razer arbitrary to me, no?

Last time I gazed at ze English, we were not trying to kill each ozer. Zat would seems peaceful to me."

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-09-2009, 20:16

So, no questions for the Candidates? I'm a bit surprised. I would've thought someone would have raised the topic of a Moorish Crusade again. That was quite popular during the last session.

The Moorish crusade has not been forgotten, fear not for that. But The War with the Germans surely takes precedent. This is not the best time for any house to be sending there strength abroad. Sadly we must worry about ourselves for now, and only after we are secure may we turn our eye to help the good Christians of Spain.

However I do have a question for you Good Duc, How do you plan on promoting better communication between the various houses and commanders?

econ21

09-09-2009, 20:21

I apologise, Duc Alain. When I spoke of a Seneschal offering an alliance, I thought we were debating the future course of France, not contemplating the past.

AussieGiant

09-09-2009, 21:25

"Indeed Ser Hermant, I was referring to ze Kings comments regarding my time in office.

'e spoke in ze past tense if you examine 'is comments closely.

I was instructed to do somezing zat I regarded as arbitrary and wiz out first consulting zis council.

As you say good ser, it is an intriguing constitutional question no?"

Alain sits slowly, making sure to hold Hermant's gaze in earnest inquiry.

econ21

09-09-2009, 22:08

Hermant rises:

Duc Alain, I see you are sincere in your inquiry. I confess I am no constitutional expert, as my misunderstanding over Antwerp has proven. Quickly scrutinising our Charter, I can find no mention of alliances at all - although an ammendment was passed forbidding diplomatic exchanges with Mohammadans. Currently, therefore, alliances with non-Mohammadans seem to fall within the discretion of the Seneschal although future edicts and proclamations may constrain him. By contrast, declarations of war are prohibited except when authorised in advance or when made by the King. I suppose the question is, would we prefer the default position of the Seneschal with respect to alliances to be one of freedom (as is the case now) or of prohibition (as in the case with war)? However, in either case, if the King has the right to make the extreme step of declaring war, I would imagine he would also be empowered to take the surely lesser step of forming an alliance.

OverKnight

09-09-2009, 23:57

Hugues stands with a prepared speech.

If the King quotes me, it is only fair that I quote his Majesty.

10 seasons ago the King addressed the Conseil concerning the English and war:

I know what all of you want to hear : that we are going to wage war et bouter l'anglais hors de France.

But that will have to wait. Our treasury has suffered from all these years of war and the costs of another war woudl ruin us. In that spirit, only last year, I concluded a trade agreement with my cousin William which acts as a sort of truce between us.

France is in shambles, our cities stink, our peasants are famished, bands of marauders scour the land... All this must stop...

I will not suffer the peasantry of France to die while her nobles go fight for glory, plunder and pleasure abroad, be it to bring back into the fold provinces that rightfully should belong to my crown. . .

Four seasons later, we were at war, declared by the King, not against the English, but the Germans. I guess we were ready for a war with the Empire, but not England. The King also said:

I will leave la gouvernance du Royaume entre vos mains in the years to come.

Would leaving the governing of the realm in the hands of others include declaring war against the Empire? Trying to cajole and then threaten the standing Seneschal into making an alliance with our sworn enemy? Or pressuring him into taking Caernarvon and Dublin, only to cast him aside when he failed to do exactly what his Majesty demanded of him? Why weren't any of these matters brought to the Conseil when it was in Session or after?

As to the question of my deal with my cousin Guillaume, I prefer to keep the specifics secret for now and until the Senechal is chosen. Diplomacy is a very sensible matter and telling too much too early may well cause it to fail.

Let us simply say that I specifically had asked the previous Senechal to propose an alliance to my cousin Guillaume as a gesture of goodwill before proposing to make an exchange of our lands, something which the Senechal admittedly didn't do. It remains to determine if that was his fault for not conveying the information to the diplomat he sent or a blunder of the diplomat. Whatever the cause, I consider that the fault is to be laid at the Senechal's feet.

Having failed to govern the realm through an unwilling proxy and behind the back of the Conseil, the cycle begins again, yet this time dispensing with the proxy. We have an edict, 2.4, authorizing negotiations, but no specifics, no mention of an Alliance. In fact I doubt the King would even give us these crumbs without prodding. The Conseil has not been consulted on an offer of an Alliance. We have not been given the exact terms for the negotiations. Nor have we been asked about whether an Alliance with England, our old enemy, is wanted or advisable.

The position [Seneschal] must be one of respect and authority, subject only to the greater authority of the King. . .

I have convened this body to help in the governance of the Royaume and to elect a man to second me and deal with the day to day burden of administering France. . .

I do not think that this has been an error, not yet but I should not impose such a burden on men not as well prepared as us Kings and Princes to deal with it. . .

This election is about whether this Conseil is simply a rubber stamp or not. And if the Seneschal, the elected represenative of the Conseil, is only a Clerk or not. Are the Nobles of France to have any say in the affairs of the Kingdom? Do you want an independent Seneschal, or not one at all?

I ask for your vote, I ask for the Conseil to stand up for its rights, I ask you to take what is yours.

I also propose:

Edict 2.9: An alliance with England is authorized.

and

Edict 2.10: An alliance with England shall not be authorized, negotiated or accepted.

Our voice will be heard.

Cecil XIX

09-10-2009, 02:06

I second Edicts 2.9 and 2.10.

woad&fangs

09-10-2009, 03:31

I second edicts 2.9 and 2.10

Vladimir

09-10-2009, 03:38

Good Lord! The pace of conversation is dizzying. :dizzy2:

So to is Gaspard's notion that a simple port will bring great trade. I suspect he also believes a grain exchange allows us to send a merchant abroad.

Edict 2.7 will profit us nothing. Let us focus on the rich trade of the Mediterranean. The silks of the east are far more profitable than the snow of the north.

[OOC: This is Lands To Conquer boys ~;) ]

GeneralHankerchief

09-10-2009, 05:31

Raynaud de Xaintrailles:

I was asked for my story; my take on matters, if I am not mistaken.

As previously stated, the Princess Constance is back in French territory and is even now in recovery from her ordeal. She was not treated kindly during her time in the Reich, although this is the fault of her abductor more so than any official work of the Kaiser or his underlings. Speaking of which, I did manage to meet with the now-former Kaiser, who expressed a very strong desire for peace with us...

*sotto voce* ...and discussed his views on religion as well.

But he is dead now, and only time will tell if his successor shares the same views as he.

That is my report to the Conseil - ah, wait. On our way back, we were accosted by a group of Italian mercenaries. They were defeated without incident, but they seemed to be targeting the Princess for some reason. Perhaps further investigation into the matter will be required.

I dwell little on this now. It is clear that the time is not yet ripe for a Moorish Crusade, though my heart still burns to send the heretical Mohammedans straight to Hell for their blasphemy against the Lord and His Son. In the meantime, I shall do my lord's bidding, and prepare for the happy day where we may begin saving the good people of Iberia's souls for good.

AussieGiant

09-10-2009, 08:03

Alain smiles to himself and stands.

I also second Edicts 2.9 and 2.10

econ21

09-10-2009, 16:54

I second Edict 2.8. However, according to the last report, it still requires a further seconder. Will one of the King's loyal Councillors second his edict, so at least it may be put to a vote?

Ituralde

09-10-2009, 17:01

Simon turns to Xaintrailles.

Will this be all the information we will receive? Who abducted her and why? How come the Kaiser himself didn't know about it even though he was at the same time waging war against us?

Taking nobility prisoner is known to happen at times of war, but mistreating another noble. It's downright disgusting! Kaiser Heinrich has deservedly been killed by the hands of our Roi. A liege is always responsible for the actions of his vassals.

Maybe that's why he let the Princess go? Or did you have to make some other kind of arrangement? And if the Kaiser let her go, why were you being followed and harrassed by mercenaries? Were they sent by a third party?

There are still a lot of questions and I can only hope for the safety of the Princess that we will find the answers to all of them.

Edit:
Oh and I second Edict 2.8.

GeneralHankerchief

09-10-2009, 17:10

Raynaud de Xaintrailles:

From what I have learned, the Princess was kidnapped by a minor noble who acted of his own volition. It appears that he had been pursuing her for some time. The Kaiser let her (and I) go only on the condition that we persuade the Conseil and particularly the King that our release was done as a gesture of good faith on his part, although this hardly matters now. He expressed desire for peace between our two nations, and...

*He hesitates for a second, then crosses himself*

...said that he had more pressing matters to worry about.

As for the mercenaries, I know very little, other than the fact that they were Italian.

OverKnight

09-10-2009, 18:34

Hugues nods.

Italian mercenaries, very fierce, do anything for coin, I'm sure they get blamed for all sorts of things.

Shame about Heinrich, I almost feel sorry for killing the poor bugger's son.

Hugues smiles at Raynaud.

Capital job saving rescuing the Princess. I had not imagined you had such a silver tongue Chevalier. Perhaps there's a future for you in diplomacy. We could set you on the English, make them see the error of their ways.

GeneralHankerchief

09-10-2009, 18:37

Raynaud de Xaintrailles:

You are too kind, Duc. During our conversation, I got the impression that the Kaiser was simply using me as an outlet to vent his frustrations with life.

(OOC: He is on fire with the KotR connections, ladies and gentlemen!)

Vladimir

09-10-2009, 22:29

Capital job saving rescuing the Princess. I had not imagined you had such a silver tongue Chevalier. Perhaps there's a future for you in diplomacy. We could set you on the English, make them see the error of their ways.

Yes. It appears he has picked up some interesting traits. *ahem*

Ignoramus

09-12-2009, 07:07

Gaspard de Neufville, aftering bearing the boring silence for too long, rises to speak.

"Bon messieurs, I wish to second Proclamation 2.1.

I believe that should any land be purchased by the Seneschal, it would naturally occur with consultation with la Roi and the major landholders of the royaume. Sometimes, it might be necessary to purchase land and utilise it immediately; without having it ratified through this body. Such an action should be used sparingly, however."

Gaspard resumes his seat.

Andres

09-13-2009, 13:22

Thierry de Rochefort had been following the proceedings, but he wasn't really paying attention. In the middle of the Counsel, a messenger entered the building and handed over a parchment to the scribe next to Thierry.

The man looked at the parchment and he suddenly had a sad expression on his face. He looked at Thierry and whispered something in his ear.

Thierry remained calm for a brief moment, then the façade cracked. With a roaring scream and tears in his eyes, he stood up. He hit the scribe with his fist, breaking the poor mans' jaw.

Thierry left the Conseil.

It was raining. The wind played with his cloak.

He softly whispered to himself.

"Maman! Pourquoi?"

He jumped on his horse and rode away, without leaving a message.

OOC: I'm leaving for a holiday tonight and will be gone until September 24th. I'll probably won't have internet acces. For IC purposes: Thierry, who had a very close relationship with his now deceased mother, went to Caernarvon and refuses to speak to anyone.

OverKnight

09-13-2009, 14:04

Hugues stands and speaks to the nearly empty chamber.

My lords, remember, if the King is victorious in this election, it is likely his Majesty will then retain the office after this term using his prerogative. For some this will be fine and dandy, but I thought I'd point it out.

Hugues leans back in his chair, puts his feet up on his desk and takes a swig of wine as Reeves hands him the latest tallies.

AussieGiant

09-17-2009, 08:19

As the election results come in to the chamber, Alain glances at the throne.

"So!"

In a manner that clearly represents a break in his normally flippant and formal demeanor in the council, Alain thumps his mailed fist on the bench forcefully.

"We are done!"

OverKnight

09-17-2009, 10:19

Hugues stumbles back into the Conseil. He looks hung over and battered.

I am grateful for the honor the Realm. . .eventually. . .bestowed upon me. I will serve the King and the Conseil with justice and fortitude. We face difficult times, but we will persevere.

Here is my first report (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2335507&postcount=159). Reeves wrote out most of it.

I had just gotten back to my men at the Moselle when the Germans attacked, sneaky bastards! Put paid to them.

I would also like to announce that Thomas de Saint-Amand, who yet again has proved his worth in battle, is now the Baron of Franconia. I congratulate him!

I hope his new Barony isn't reduced to a cinder before he sees it.

OverKnight

09-17-2009, 21:25

Hugues scans a few reports, including some notes from Reeves, and stands. He looks a bit more refreshed, if still tired. He sketches a bow.

My King, Dauphin and Nobles of the Realm. I have received some requests for mercenary recruitment. Chevalier Gaeten de Rethel has taken position in a mountain pass between Bern and Dijon. He has requested a company of crossbowmen.

The King wishes reinforcement so that he may move from Frankfurt and engage Kaiser Maximillian but leave a garrison.

I would prefer if all future requests for troops, mercenary or recruited, including prioritizations, be made in the Conseil. This would make them easier to track and to ensure the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.

(OOC: It well also, I hope, encourage discussion in this thread between sessions.)

Seignuer Gaeten de Rethel's request is denied. 860 Florins is a great deal of money. He has no other men besides his retinue. Barring future developments, we have enough forces in the area to respond to a German incursion.

As for the mercenaries the King requests, I need more specifics as to what his Majesty needs. There are three companies of crossbowmen and two companies of spearmen available for hire in the area. Certainly to face down the Kaiser, I will not skimp, but purchasing the services off all those companies would cost nearly 4,000 florins.

Hugues checks his notes.

Which is 2/5ths of our current treasury and our entire income for the season.

Cecil XIX

09-17-2009, 21:41

Given that Dijon can only recruit one type of unit, I think I am being specific enough when I say I want my three unit prioritizations fulfilled as soon as possible. At least they're cheap.

OverKnight

09-17-2009, 21:52

Hugues nods to Raymond.

To be honest, I had not reviewed all troop requests yet. (OOC: I'll be printing out the SOT thread and doing recruitment at the end of the turn. It might be a good idea to delete old prioritizations and flag new ones.)

The Duc raises a good point, prioritizations of troop recruitment come before all other expenditures, including mercenaries:

(3) Prioritized Units - No money can be spent on any recruitment until all Prioritized Units have been funded, unless the Nobles who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Units, and not enough funding for all of them, the Chancellor may choose which to recruit first. Nobles may specify any of his settlements for the unit to be recruited from, and any unit available for hire in that settlement to be recruited. Artillery and mercenaries cannot be Prioritized. A unit may be retrained instead of recruited if the unit is already located in a settlement where it can be retrained in some fashion.

This is part of the reason I wish to make requests public. Certainly Duc Raymond needs men to defend Dijon, but the King needs men to repulse the Kaiser. Also, Dijon can only recruit so many companies this season. I would also like to have Florins to build. I hope we can hammer out a compromise where everyone is satisfied.

OOC: The save window is going to be extended until all these first season issues are sorted out.

econ21

09-17-2009, 23:03

I congratulate the Seneschal on his election. I agree with my Duc that prioritised units should be ... err.. prioritised. However, if only one company can be trained at Dijon each season, perhaps he and our other landed gentry would allow the Seneschal to hire mercenaries for the King?

On the matter of mercenaries, I believe our Monarch is astute to favour them over militia when it comes to battle. Yes, they cost more than militia but they also are much better equipped and trained. Militia are ideal for garrison duty and lesser actions. But it would be heartless and perhaps reckless to send untrained and unarmoured militia into a major battle against superior numbers when we could hire well armed professionals. When we have the capacity to train our own armoured infantry, mercenary foot may then become an unnecessary indulgence. However, even then, I fear that we will never train crossbowmen who can match the range of the arbalests of the mercenaries and some of our neighbours.

deguerra

09-18-2009, 00:10

Raoul stands and, clearly unused to speaking publically, clears his throat

My congratulations also to our new Senschal. I hope he will fulfill his duties with the same deviotion and professionalism as the last.

I don't speak here often, as I am a fighter not an orator. But it seems the conversation has strayed into my sort of territory.

First, Bourgogne needs men. I realize I am speaking for my own Duchy here, but unlike the other Duchies, Bourgogne has partaken in no aggressive expansion, has not used up resources. We are on the front lines, however, and it cannot be that we are overlooked. In fact, as it is a matter of some urgency, what I would really like to see is the other Duchies allowing us to recruit from their lands.

Secondly, mercenaries. If you want my fighting opinion, they are overpaid, dirty, untrustworthy and unfortunately worth every penny we spend on them at the moment. But what France needs is a potent force of her own, and what that force must be is armoured knights on horseback. This is how we held back the Moors at the Battle of Tours and Poitiers and this is how we will hold back any foreign aggressor. Infantry is a waste of time and resources, mercenaries and militia are perfectly suited to fulfill that role: to bulk up the ranks.

Thirdly, and here I am speaking in an area of which I know little, I cannot say I like the idea of any long-term hold on Frankfurt. It is German, has always been German and will remain German and trying to impose a French sovereign on them will only lead to trouble. I say trade it off as soon as practicable.

ULC

09-18-2009, 01:16

"May I ask how the Seneschal expects me to hold the southern pass from Bern with nothing?"

Ramses II CP

09-18-2009, 02:19

I see our new Seneschal has asked that Toulouse be 'opened' for recruitment. I will do him one better, I have brought two unblooded companies of Mounted Sergeants with me from Toulouse. I will donate those to the defense of the realm and allow them to be allocated as the Seneschal wishes this very season. (OOC: When I do my move I'll leave the two not-veteran companies in place. I'm altering my SoT but this constitutes permission as far as I'm concerned)

As far as recruitment from my castle, however, I must say I am displeased with the state of our defenses along the southern borders. I trust none of the powers that flank us there. I have left my vassals in place to defend, but they have very few men to do so, and thus I propose a compromise. For every company of cavalry I release to the Seneschal's discretion I ask a company of archers be trained for the defense of my lands. A good starting point would be retraining the mercenary crossbowmen at Valencia this season, so that Sir de Xaintraillies has a better chance of defending our furthest flung holding. A company or two of Town Militia at Marseille would not strike me amiss either, and their upkeep would be supported by the locals.

I do not wish to seem greedy, but cavalry are the strength of our realm. If I am to sacrifice my strength while my own lands are vulnerable it seems only fair that I take some recompense.

Congratulations on your election Duke Hugues.

:egypt:

deguerra

09-18-2009, 02:34

Raoul sighs

Prince Louis, it seems we both agree and disagree. Your point regarding cavalry is well made. I salute your releasing them, and of course would not be displeased to see one or both go to Bourgogne.

I disagree in part with your assessment on our southern borders. As to the feelings of our neighbours towards us you may be correct, but I ask you if this might not be due to the fact that we, and by we I mean the Duchy of Aquitaine, expanded quite ruthlessly into what the rulers of Spain considered their lands?

And now, we need more and expensive militia to hold them.

As to you, Sieur de Rethel, might one enquire why the defence of this Swiss pass is vital to the continued existence of our realm? And if it is, why you are the one defending it?

Ramses II CP

09-18-2009, 02:51

The Prince offers de Chatillon a genuine smile before speaking,

No need to be circumspect; your own lands are under greater threat and so you question any recruitment away from them. I comprehend this, however, the Moors and English are the neighbors I primarily mean, not to forget the Milanese. Rumors have it that the Moors are gathering forces once more, and we've no cavalry at all other than Sir de Xaintraillies' own bodyguards to meet them. I ask only a few peasant archers, who are cheap, and perhaps some crossbowmen, to answer that threat and offer you the best cavalry our realm has in exchange.

I will also point out at this time that I rode north, halting that expansion to no benefit of my own House, the very instant I learned of the threat here. If my wife is any proof the Spanish will curse, scream, pitch fits... and keep their word to the bitter end, loyal as a dog. I see no reason to doubt them at this time, but I see little strength in their realm either. If we do not aid them the Moors will sweep them aside and be at our doorstep, a doorstep which has very few men watching it and enemies on all sides.

My motives are utterly transparent. I wish the realm to benefit, but I wish my House and lands to be secure as well. Can you truly find fault with this?

:egypt:

Ramses II CP

09-18-2009, 02:55

Mmm, yes, I should also note that I have moved with my remaining men into position to block any German move towards our lands out of Bern. You need not fear the enemy from that place.

:egypt:

deguerra

09-18-2009, 03:02

You misunderstand me, my Prince. I was trying to bring neither your House nor you into any disrepute. Few nobles of this Kingdom can rightly claim to have done as much of you for our safety and prosperity.

I do find fault with our expanding into lands on which we have no claim, at least insofar as our purpose is for annexation rather than to trade them in for those lands to which we do have claim. House Aquitaine's expansion was, in this regard, the lesser of my worries.

But ultimately, I talk here of things I understand too little of. What I do understand is that my Duchy needs men, so I ask that any who can help do so.

KnightnDay

09-18-2009, 03:16

If I may point out to members of the Conseil, that a member of our diplomatic corps, Geoffroi de Cressensacq has been enjoying a steady diet of wine and brie within the relaxed confines of Paris for the better part of a year now.

Perhaps the Seneschal might direct the fine gentleman to meet with a representative of the Kaiser without delay for the purpose of fulfilling the edict just approved, to seek an equitable peace with the Reich?

OverKnight

09-18-2009, 04:24

"May I ask how the Seneschal expects me to hold the southern pass from Bern with nothing?"

Well, um. . .I don't expect you too. Of course I didn't think you would move there in the first place. If you expect me to reinforce you because you've impulsively placed yourself in a dangerous situation, I'm afraid you might be disappointed.

First, Bourgogne needs men. I realize I am speaking for my own Duchy here, but unlike the other Duchies, Bourgogne has partaken in no aggressive expansion, has not used up resources. We are on the front lines, however, and it cannot be that we are overlooked. In fact, as it is a matter of some urgency, what I would really like to see is the other Duchies allowing us to recruit from their lands.

Secondly, mercenaries. If you want my fighting opinion, they are overpaid, dirty, untrustworthy and unfortunately worth every penny we spend on them at the moment. But what France needs is a potent force of her own, and what that force must be is armoured knights on horseback. This is how we held back the Moors at the Battle of Tours and Poitiers and this is how we will hold back any foreign aggressor. Infantry is a waste of time and resources, mercenaries and militia are perfectly suited to fulfill that role: to bulk up the ranks.

Thirdly, and here I am speaking in an area of which I know little, I cannot say I like the idea of any long-term hold on Frankfurt. It is German, has always been German and will remain German and trying to impose a French sovereign on them will only lead to trouble. I say trade it off as soon as practicable.

Chevalier de Châtillon, Duc Raymond will have the men he asks for. However, cavalry is wasted behind walls. If I was confident that Bourgogne was to engage in a more aggressive defense, then you will have your share of cavalry.

Frankly, the Realm has plenty of horse, we have many more nobles than commands. We lack decent foot and archers in my view.

As for Franconia, it cannot be given away for peace without the permission of Baron de Saint-Amand. Perhaps it could be included in negotiations if he was compensated for his loss.

I see our new Seneschal has asked that Toulouse be 'opened' for recruitment. I will do him one better, I have brought two unblooded companies of Mounted Sergeants with me from Toulouse. I will donate those to the defense of the realm and allow them to be allocated as the Seneschal wishes this very season. (OOC: When I do my move I'll leave the two not-veteran companies in place. I'm altering my SoT but this constitutes permission as far as I'm concerned)

As far as recruitment from my castle, however, I must say I am displeased with the state of our defenses along the southern borders. I trust none of the powers that flank us there. I have left my vassals in place to defend, but they have very few men to do so, and thus I propose a compromise. For every company of cavalry I release to the Seneschal's discretion I ask a company of archers be trained for the defense of my lands. A good starting point would be retraining the mercenary crossbowmen at Valencia this season, so that Sir de Xaintraillies has a better chance of defending our furthest flung holding. A company or two of Town Militia at Marseille would not strike me amiss either, and their upkeep would be supported by the locals.

I do not wish to seem greedy, but cavalry are the strength of our realm. If I am to sacrifice my strength while my own lands are vulnerable it seems only fair that I take some recompense.

I will review the defenses in the west and see what can be done in the short term. As I said, cavalry is always well received, but we need footmen and archers.

I'm damned grateful the Dauphin decided to come east. He could have tarried in the Cote d'Azure but he has come to aid us against the Germans.

If I may point out to members of the Conseil, that a member of our diplomatic corps, Geoffroi de Cressensacq has been enjoying a steady diet of wine and brie within the relaxed confines of Paris for the better part of a year now.

Perhaps the Seneschal might direct the fine gentleman to meet with a representative of the Kaiser without delay for the purpose of fulfilling the edict just approved, to seek an equitable peace with the Reich?

I'll see if that cheese eating bloke can't work off some of it. We'll roll him to the Rhine if need be.

deguerra

09-18-2009, 05:14

Well, um. . .I don't expect you too. Of course I didn't think you would move there in the first place. If you expect me to reinforce you because you've impulsively placed yourself in a dangerous situation, I'm afraid you might be disappointed.

My thoughts exactly.

Chevalier de Châtillon, Duc Raymond will have the men he asks for. However, cavalry is wasted behind walls. If I was confident that Bourgogne was to engage in a more aggressive defense, then you will have your share of cavalry.

Frankly, the Realm has plenty of horse, we have many more nobles than commands. We lack decent foot and archers in my view.

Walls, walls. The fate of our realm is not decided behind walls. How can you at once reason that you will deprive Bourgogne of cavlary because they are wasted on us, and at the same time say that cavalry in itself is a waste.

In any case, I ask you: How can Bourgogne pursue an aggressive defense without having the men to conduct any defence. I hear that you will grant us what we ask for, even though that is the bear minimum of what we will need. And understand that I wish not to insult anyone with what I am saying. If I want to insult you, you will know it. I am merely voicing my anxiety.

As for Franconia, it cannot be given away for peace without the permission of Baron de Saint-Amand. Perhaps it could be included in negotiations if he was compensated for his loss.

I am aware of that, which is why I am unhappy that it was granted in the first place. Again, nothing at all towards Sieur Saint-Amand. I would say the same of anyone.

OverKnight

09-18-2009, 05:34

Hugues chuckles and turns to Raoul.

You do indeed have a fighting spirit Chevalier.

The garrison of Dijon, barring Frankfurt or Caernarvon, is currently the strongest in the Kingdom. If Dijon is threatened or besiged, our armies in the area will converge to defend the city, as we did before.

The Germans outnumber us, we must conduct a mobile defense to parry their powerful but clumsy thrusts. Lorraine has come to the aid of Bourgogne in the past, if the reverse will hold true in future, I will provide your Duchy with more cavalry.

N'est-ce pas?

deguerra

09-18-2009, 05:54

Raoul makes a curt bow in the direction of the Duc de Lorraine

Hugues chuckles and turns to Raoul.

The garrison of Dijon, barring Frankfurt or Caernarvon, is currently the strongest in the Kingdom. If Dijon is threatened or besiged, our armies in the area will converge to defend the city, as we did before.

I may be simple, but do not think the use of the word "garrison" escapes me. Yes, Dijon has a sizeable garrison. It hardly has a sizeable army.

The Germans outnumber us, we must conduct a mobile defense to parry their powerful but clumsy thrusts. Lorraine has come to the aid of Bourgogne in the past, if the reverse will hold true in future, I will provide your Duchy with more cavalry.

N'est-ce pas?

Bien sur. I presume you are not wanting to insinuate any doubt that Bourgogne would fail to do so.

KnightnDay

09-18-2009, 05:57

Indeed. We are in this together, and there is every reason for the houses of Bourgogne and Lorraine to cooperate in the mutual protection of our lands. That, along with the generous offer of assistance from our fair prince should provide a more than adequate defense.

Ituralde

09-18-2009, 07:59

If it is heavy cavalry you need, I have a score of them under my command. This is the reason the Order was founded in the first place. To help the Royaume in any way possible. We are currently tied up in the defense of Frankfurt and will hopefully strike at Emperor Maximilian soon. Should that situation change though and the German concentrate their attacks elsewhere don't hesitate to ask for assistance. The Order will gladly help to keep our borders safe!

AussieGiant

09-18-2009, 08:04

Arms folded, Alain observes proceeding reclined in his chair.

_Tristan_

09-18-2009, 08:41

Philippe turns to the Senechal

Hugues, you asked what I would require for taking on Maximilian and his cohorts. It depends on what your vassal Saint Amand requires for garrisonning Frankfurt. One or two spearmen would be fine if I could keep the crossbowmen already in Frankfurt within my army. I'll have my quartermaster draw an account of what is needed (OOC : I'll take a close look at the save) and give to you.

As to Sieur de Châtillon's observation that Frankfurt was ever German and should remain so, I'd like him to look back to the times of Charlemagne, when the borders of France extended over the Pyrrenées in the South West, to Rome in the South East and up to Saxony in the North, reaching down to Carinthia in the East. So when we conquer lands behind the Pyrennées or over the Rhine, we are only reclaiming what was lost to us due to the bickering of Charlemagne's sons... We are reclaiming what is OURS !!

So Frankfurt will remain French at whatever cost... I would not take back something I have granted in good faith, it would make a poor liege of me, and that I will not allow.

deguerra

09-18-2009, 09:20

I am, of course, no historian, mon roi, but was it not after Charlemagne that the lands of the French and of the Germans were divided.

Of course, I may misunderstand, not having your wisdom, but by your logic, do not the Germans have equal claim on Paris?

But in any case, I am not saying we must give Frankfurt back. I am merely taking the position that rapid expansionism, blatantly only aimed at increasing the personal power of one noble or another without any regard for the wellbeing of the Kingdom and its people is to be avoided.

_Tristan_

09-18-2009, 10:06

Sieur de Châtillon, you speak the truth when you say that it was after Charlemagne that the lands of Franks and Germans were divided... but it's only because of the feuds between his descendants that it became so... Charlemagne was King of the Franks, as I am, before the title of Emperor was given to him by the Pope... And I cannot bear to see his lands or his title usurped by Heinrich or his ilk, heathen that they are... So that deals with any claim the Germans may have upon French lands...

They've been conquered once and God-willing, they will be once again...

As to rapid expansion, I've done everything in my power to cull it and to see to the well-being of my people, enacting laws that required the building of churches or granaries before the building of barracks... Expansion east is stopped by the Pope's Edict, we're now only defending ourselves and expansion south is stopped now that the rebellious provinces have been brought to heel.

I don't know where you've seen that our expansion was "blatanly aimed" at increasing one noble's power over another as I tried to distribute all lands conquered according to the merits of each House.

AussieGiant

09-18-2009, 10:18

Alain make a grunting noise of disgust at the last remark.

_Tristan_

09-18-2009, 10:30

Philippe glares at Alain.

Something on your mind, Duc Alain ? A burr under your saddle ? Or should I say in your codpiece ?

AussieGiant

09-18-2009, 17:45

Alain smiles and with great care examines his codpiece, shows it to Medoc, who tries to bite it, and then looks back at the King.

"The usual items are were zey need to be, Cyril is currently unsaddled in ze barn.

I simply enjoyed ze us of language in your description, oh mighty King of Kings."

_Tristan_

09-18-2009, 17:49

Philippe smiles back with a mirthless smile.

That's what I thought...

Braden

09-18-2009, 20:22

A page enters bearing Prince Henri’s colours.

“If I may, I have an announcement to read?”

The gathered council acknowledge the page and bid he proceed

“Thank you my gathered Lords” he bows and unravels the message.

“My Lords present, on this day as it gathers close to my 18th year of age, I hereby announce my entrance into the public politic.”

The page pauses before continuing..

“I also announce my request to my...dear Father...be assigned to our borders with the Holy Roman Empire so that I may more directly aid our peoples in maintaining peace between the peoples of the Franks and Germains. Too long have I waited behind the shadow of my brother and it is time to show our great nation what good I can perform for her.”

The page rolls up the note and bows before speaking again..

“My lord, Prince Henri has tasked me with returning with any messages you have for him at this time. My name is Guntram and I await your pleasure my lords.”

OverKnight

09-18-2009, 21:13

Philippe turns to the Senechal

Hugues, you asked what I would require for taking on Maximilian and his cohorts. It depends on what your vassal Saint Amand requires for garrisonning Frankfurt. One or two spearmen would be fine if I could keep the crossbowmen already in Frankfurt within my army. I'll have my quartermaster draw an account of what is needed (OOC : I'll take a close look at the save) and give to you.

My King, having studied the reports, I will release up to 1600 florins for hiring mercenaries. Your Majesty could acquire two companies of spearmen, or one company and some crossbowmen with those funds. Your choice, though it appears your Majesty needs footmen.

All I ask for Frankfurt is that you leave a company of men of your choosing behind to garrison the city. Thomas has prioritized some militia for the city, but they will not be ready until next season.

Is this acceptable?

OOC: If it is, you can take the save and make the hires yourself before any action.

OverKnight

09-18-2009, 21:27

Reeves hands Hugues a report. The Duc chokes on some wine he had been drinking. Wiping off his doublet, he stands to speak.

Dauphin, may I ask why your men are directly outside Bern? Your Highness is damned close to violating Edict 2.2. You're not sieging the place, but you seem to be inviting them to strike at you.

Remember the gentleman in the pointy hat? The one who can bring damnation down on us? Hmm? I'm not sure if he cares much for the subtle distinction your Highness might be aiming at.

_Tristan_

09-18-2009, 21:34

Philippe acknowledges Hugues' proposal with a nod.

1600 florins should be enough, Senechal. I thank you and will proceed to go back to Frankfurt immediately.

(OOC : I'm not on my own internet right now and may not access the save until tomorrow so could you leave the save open until tomorrow early evening GMT...
Moreover, I'm waiting on word from Zim about some issue...:whip:)

And, Hugues, do not worry about the Pope... Surely he will make the difference between who is truly the aggressor between Louis or the Imperials...

OverKnight

09-18-2009, 21:38

Hugues bows to the King.

Excellent, I wish your Majesty good fortune against the Kaiser. A few more poundings might make them more likely to see reason.

OOC: Since this appears to be the major action of the turn, I'll keep the save open.

Edit: I wish I had your Majesty's confidence in the. . .strategic insight. . .of the Pontiff.

Ramses II CP

09-18-2009, 23:25

Simply put I heard a lot of talk here about the Germans at Bern being a threat to the upper Rhine region. I decided that the simplest solution would be to block them from departing that castle by taking possession of all the west bound roads out of it. The edict in question does not deny me the right to ride into German lands, and I give my word that I have no intention of making an attack. I am simply defending France from a forward position.

Let me further say that, having taken the lay of the land, the German commander at Bern is a fool to practice lay-about-the-fort thinking with the types of troops he has on hand. If it angers His Holiness that I take advantage of this fool then I will personally issue an apology and depart the region of Bern.

One thing you can be sure of, there will be no siege of Bern.

:egypt:

OverKnight

09-19-2009, 00:20

Hugues nods.

Hmmm, yes a "forward position", a very forward position indeed.

I trust that your Highness knows what you are doing.

_Tristan_

09-19-2009, 22:41

Please disregard... Nothing to see here...

Philippe enters the room and all can see his last battle has been very hard on him. He limps heavily. His left arm is in a sling, but more frightening is the vicious cut upon his face that deforms his mouth in a grim mockery of a smile (OOC : Got Terribly Scarred fighting Maximilian).

Eyeing the assembled Lords, some turning their faces from his mauld face, Philippe speaks, his voice as stentorous as always.

Do not look away my Lord... This (showing his face) is the price to pay for serving the Lord and France... I'm proud of this... And with Bertrade gone a few years ago, I have no need of a handsome face.

And it seems this face served me well... I met my cousin Guillaume a few days ago and either he was anxious to get out of sight of my ugly face or he was afraid he might catch it, anyway he accepted to deal with us on very favorable terms I found...

But first things first... Maximilian is dead and the Imperials must right now be electing their next beer-swilling pudding-head Kaiser... His second in command was captured and asked permission to take away Maximilian's corpse , with the remnants of his army as escort, to his last resting place... I agreed but made him pay the hefty sum of 4798 florins...

Without the help of our Senechal and the men of the Order, I would not have been able to achieve such a result. The Senechal for providing me the funds to hire enough mercenaries to make a difference, the Order Chevaliers for fighting like true French nobles, killing Maximilian and capturing his second while I was fighting on the other side of the field.

I wish to thank also le Sieur de Saint Amand for accepting to release into my command almost all of Frankfurt's garrison (OOC : I've adjusted the taxes to prevent it from rebelling).

Thanks to all this efforts, we're one step closer to make France into the bountiful Royaume it was under the reign of Charlemagne. Guillaume has released into our custody the provinces of Normandy and Anjou in exchange for Wales and Valencia. My mangled face perturbed him so much that he didn't even haggle when I offered him the Imperial ransom as a compensation for the exchange.

Bretagne is no more an island, separated from us by an English sea... We've finally managed what we set out to do so many years ago... I've been harsh with Duc Alain, I now admit, and as a sign of forgiveness, I wish to assign to his Duchy the castle of Angers.

Now, Mes Seigneurs, let us rejoice of our good fortune... Drink to your heart's content and pray to God that it will help you forget my dismal face !!

Philippe claps his right hand on his throne armrest and the gates to the hall open to let in serving boys and girls carrying small casks of wine and plates of rich and elaborate foods.

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-20-2009, 02:41

disregard this as well.

Could you perhaps fill us in on the details of this little arrangement my lord?
Yvon sounds slightly annoyed
It seems strange that an alliance has been forged even after a edict by this council forbid it. Not that I am sure you did not have a excellent reason, and were able to get a excellent deal from the English.

KnightnDay

09-21-2009, 04:33

"In order to relieve his majesty and others of the responsibillity of protecting Frankfurt itself for an indefinite period of time, the Seneschal has agreed to the recruitment of new spear militia companies that I will assume responsibility for. The troops within the confines of the city at the present time are free to come and go as his majesty wills it, while these newest formations remain in place to assume the burden of defending Frankfurt from direct attack. I shall also be moving to the city at once to oversee its administration."

(OOC: SOT has been updated to reflect this)

OverKnight

09-21-2009, 04:49

Hugues smiles and nods at Thomas.

Quite right. Frankfurt will need all the help it can get.

Reeves enters the Conseil and whispers something to the Duc and hands him a letter. As Hugues reads it, the smile slips from his face and he glances to the Throne. The Duc begins to grin again as he hands the letter back to Reeves.

The King as well.

Ramses II CP

09-21-2009, 20:34

Prince Louis enters the chamber in an ugly mood. He glares at a page who is too slow getting out of his way before declaring,

The Germans at Bern have been dealt a bloody defeat. Over six hundred were captured and awaiting execution when a laggardly batch of their reinforcements from Staufen assaulted my weary men from behind and captured our supplies. I...

Louis pauses for a moment to grimace before continuing,

I withdrew and left them in possession of the field, thus releasing all those prisoners. The Germans appear to have learned of our intention to honor the Pope's demands, and so they leave Staufen all but unguarded to take advantage. Although I won a great tactical victory on the road west of Bern I am willing to admit I made a strategic mistake by riding into Germany, and unless asked otherwise I will now retire to reinforce my army and resupply my men.

By the time the enforced truce expires I will be back, God and King willing, and we shall fall on these fools like a hammer.

The Prince takes a seat, his head held stiffly high with a grim, proud look on his face.

:egypt:

KnightnDay

09-22-2009, 03:00

Ituralde

09-22-2009, 07:23

Another season well administered, I congratulate the Seneshal on his superb job. The Duc has rightfully pointed out that no man of the Order has yet moved to protect our possession in Antwerp. Well like I have told the Seneshal in private already Gaspard de Neufville is making preparations to leave Frankfurt the hour the threat of Emperor Maximilian is dealt with. I trust His Majesty will move against him any day now.

He looks expectantly at the Throne before turning to the Council again.

Why am I telling you all this? On his way towards Antwerp Brother Gaspard is in an ideal situation to oversee the constructino of watchtowers that our Senshal has asked for. The border with the Germans is unsecure though and I had hoped that I could give him an escort of Spear Militia. Those would be well recieved in Antwerp as well. So I ask you Baron de Saint-Armand if you could spare some of your men. I am sure the Seneshal could replace them until the next season?

Now is attention is fully centered on the Duchy of Lorraine.

OverKnight

09-22-2009, 07:54

Hugues responds.

Well, I just looked into it, and it seems Thomas has given permission for the King to move men out of the city but not his Duc or Seneschal.

Duc raises an eyebrow in the direction of the Baron of Franconia and smirks.

An oversight I'm sure, but my hands are tied at the moment. Perhaps you could appeal to the King for a company of spearmen? Perhaps from Paris or his current army?

How many men Frankfurt can provide outside of its own Garrison is also dependent on the King's actions this season. If he leaves the city with his men, I'm afraid I'll have to build up the garrison before it contributes to other concerns, particularly if the Kaiser and his army remain intact.

OverKnight

09-22-2009, 08:04

Hugues scans a few reports.

Also, I would like the Conseil's opinion on negotiations with the Empire for peace. I detailed an offer I made in my latest report; 5000 florins, maps and trade rights for peace. They termed this "demanding" and refused it.

So, how much should we offer for peace? Land might be an option, but Lorraine would be loath to give up Frankfurt as the Order would Antwerp or Acquitaine, Marseille.

If we offer solely Florins, we would have to curtail any expenditures for a few seasons to come close to their demands, if they will accept money at all.

I keep expecting the Germans to be excommunicated, but the Pope keeps disappointing me. The chap must be a forgiving man to war with someone but keep them in the Church.

Thoughts?

AussieGiant

09-22-2009, 08:39

"Offer them Caernarvon. Or anything else in the King's Demense."

OverKnight

09-22-2009, 08:46

Hugues chuckles.

Wales to the Empire? They'd have to be mad to even consider that.

If I was Welsh, I'd be insulted, the English don't want them, it seems, and neither do we.

Seriously, offering the Empire one of its old possessions would carry more weight I think.

Edit: Unlike the English negotiations, there are no established protocols. I would need the permission of the owner of any lands offered in a deal before consumating it. The King for the Royal Demesne, Steward Neufville for Antwerp and the like.

_Tristan_

09-22-2009, 08:50

Yes, let's offer the Imperials Paris for a truce ! What a nice idea, Duc de Rohan !!

By the way, does the offer of the Senechal to let me recruit some mercenaries still stands ? I'll need them if we don't want to endanger the lives of the noblemen riding with me...

OverKnight

09-22-2009, 09:04

Hugues raises an eyebrow.

Of course your Majesty, up to 1600 florins for mercenaries.

The thought of Germans in Paris of all places is absurd, what would it be after that, Jerusalem?

Edit: Well if not Paris, what are we willing to offer the Germans, if anything?

AussieGiant

09-22-2009, 09:04

Alain smiles at the throne.

"Beloved leader, I am sure Paris is per'aps an option.

One of God's representatives on earz' recently described it as, 'nozing but a pigsty', surely a pigsty is possible as a part of a truce agreement no?

So many mercenaries, your appetite for spending money is impressive my King."

Ituralde

09-22-2009, 10:56

I don't intend to give the Germans anything. We have the border well secured. The Pope has asked us to cease hostilities, but surely we can defend ourselves. Let the Germans bleed some more. They'll accept their defeat eventually. Every Knight should know defeat when it comes to him and not be ashamed to admit it. I don't like spending our florins just to keep the Germans mollified.

Braden

09-22-2009, 12:10

*Prince Henri’s standard and Page enters to join the council discussions*

My Lords,

My liege Prince Henri is currently in Metz but will shortly be leaving to join King Phillip and The Order to aid in the defence of Frankfurt.

Firstly, it is clear that we have made overtones to the Kaiser which have been rebuffed. Prince Henri states that peace will come at too high a price at this time and any such future negotiations should be postponed until the Kaiser has learned our nation will not capitulate to an exorbitant proposal.

The border should be maintained however and the large German army near Frankfurt must be compelled to leave its threatening position.

In order to do this the Prince suggests that the King’s army be kept in the field, clearly within our own borders but still either just outside or within a seasons march of Frankfurt.

Further to this, the garrison in Frankfurt is to be reduced…such military formations removed to join the Kings army…but not to such an extent as to affect public order in the city. This move is designed to try to entrap the Kaiser by enticing him to besiege Frankfurt, the Kaiser having made the first aggressive move will then be open to attack by the Kings army thereafter.

Such a counter strike must be made as immediately as possible so as to lessen the citizens discomfort.

Should the Kaisers army strike at our own Kings then he must be provided with sufficient force to utterly crush the Kaiser.

The Prince proposes that a policy of maintaining our Eastern border be enacted aggressively and any, and all, formations of German forces be met and destroyed as rapidly as possible. The Prince believes that the forces already in the upper and lower Rhine areas should be sufficient to the task if correctly distributed to ensure more balanced formations with not only noble cavalry but spears and archers of any kind available.

The Prince proposes that Militia be recruited to garrison cities and castles where possible but effort be made to ensure armies have at least two formations of spear troops of whatever type is available locally.

The Prince seconds the efforts of the Seneschal to uphold the edict from the Pope for Valencia, he also seconds his comments that we are to defend our own lands rather than impose more disfavour from the Pope by remaining in German held lands.

KnightnDay

09-22-2009, 13:52

There is merit to what Prince Henri suggests and it goes to the heart of a question raised by the Seneschal. My permission on who could take troops from Frankfurt was deliberate. It is the king's army in my view and no one elses. It is up to his majesty to decide what troops, minus the newest spear militia company, may depart the city. If I decided otherwise, then the king might fault me for allowing his troops to be taken without permission. Therefore I must offer him my assurance that on my word as Baron of Franconia, his rights are protected, as indeed any nobleman who enjoys the hospitality of Frankfurt.

Now I have heard a matter mentioned more than once and have not chosen to speak on it. I will do so now. The ownership of Frankfurt is not negotiable, as by the king's own words he said it shall not be given up for purposes of diplomacy. Joke about giving the Kaiser our capital all you like, but indeed Paris is the only city I would take in recompense for Frankfurt. And I think we all know his majesty would die before allowing that to happen.

OverKnight

09-22-2009, 14:04

Hugues speaks.

Word has reached me that his Majesty has won a great victory over the Germans, which renders some of what Prince Henri said moot.

Still the Prince seems whip smart and he has several interesting notions. Letting the Germans siege one of our cities might finally goad the Pope into excommunicating them.

Much of the ransom obtained for the survivors of his Majesty's triumph will go towards a new Church in Paris, dedicated to the many victories that God has granted the King.

Hugues turns to Thomas.

Have no fear Baron, Frankfurt is not on the trading block. I'm sure once you reach the city, you'll make proper Frenchmen of them.

Braden

09-22-2009, 14:19

Thomas, council,

NO lands should go to Germany. However, the case that perhaps Frankfurt would be a made a deliberate “target” for German aggression, would only be in your agreement of course. The hope that not only the Germans would provide us the opportunity to utterly crush one of their main military formations but that the Pope, already at war with them, might finally be cajoled into excommunicating them.

Make no bones about this, my priority as a Prince of the realm is the safety of France’s citizens everywhere. However, German aggression continues to pose a threat to that even after we have made significant overtures for peace. Should the Kaiser, the NEW Kaiser, be excommunicated I would be to the fore in striking hard and deep into the Rhinelands.

I hear my brother performs well in war as always, I can only hope the same fiery blood flows through my veins. I thank our brave fighting men for making much of my previous statement…redundant…perhaps in the best possible way.

I also take the time to thank the Holy Roman Empire for their generous cash gift that will not only help to construct a new Church in Paris but I am sure aid us in raising more stout Frenchmen to best their finest.

I thank you…

Ramses II CP

09-22-2009, 18:02

"So highness, you left the field in posession of the enemy. I find it hard to believe that laggards would catch your forces unaware. Non, I suspect some treachery was likely involved here. In any case, do not let the thought trouble you. I think there is no man here that expects every general to win every battle. The important thing is that you have found your way back safely to the Royaume, and will in time too to your caring family. Three lovely daughters now? They must be a joy to behold!"

Louis responds in an angry but controlled tone without rising from his seat,

"Treachery. I will consider that possibility. Certainly there are many in France, even in this room, who are honorless and would consider such a course.

It is also possible that I was merely careless. Next time I will kill the Germans as I run them down rather than gathering them up to see if their latest master will pay a ransom.

My daughters are the most beautiful things in all the world. Their service to France will be beyond reproach."

Standing now, he turns to face the members of the Council as he speaks,

"I will concur that we should surrender no lands to the Germans at this time. If the Pope declares that we cannot retake them we will have no ward against further German treachery. They are not a people to be trusted.

I also wish to congratulate my father on putting down the most recent claimant to their throne. I had encoutered the fool myself, and I must say that his armies will be the better for his absence.

As to my intentions, I will remain in the region if requested to do so by the Seneschal, otherwise I intend to retire to Toulouse to resupply my army and perhaps retrain some of my depleted regiments. I believe the Germans will gather their forces at Bern for a time before they come again. We have dealt them many stinging defeats in the field and they have no bold commanders remaining."

:egypt:

deguerra

09-23-2009, 00:55

"Treachery. I will consider that possibility. Certainly there are many in France, even in this room, who are honorless and would consider such a course.

Come now, Dauphin. If you are going to insinuate such things, give the perpetrators their names.

Ramses II CP

09-23-2009, 01:27

"Though I might find fault with your tone I will be clear that I do not refer to you, Raoul de Chatillon, or you, Thomas de Saint-Amand. There is, however, a man who in public swore he would never bend knee to his future king. You all know the name. He has demanded repeatedly that I defend myself against his baseless claims in the face of all logic.

Know that I am not of his ilk. I suspect he is capable of treachery, but I do not have any reason to call him a traitor, and so I do not claim he is such a beast. There is a difference between the two statements, and I chose my words very carefully on that precise account."

Louis' control over his voice is tight, but anger still provides a bright undertone to all his words.

:egypt:

OverKnight

09-23-2009, 01:31

Hugues points a finger at Raoul.

Asking for a full explanation!? You must be the traitor! J'accuse! How dare you question the existence of the seemingly infinite and shadowy network of traitors around us!

The Duc cannot keep up his sarcastic facade, he starts laughing.

Most likely it is just bad luck, though we assume it to be malicious. When I lose my quill, my first impulse is to ask who stole it, as Reeves always looks a bit sketchy, when in fact I later find it underneath my desk.

Edit: Hugues ponders the Dauphin's words for a moment.

Oh, him, well if he is able to sabotage you mon Prince, you are in a great deal of trouble.

ULC

09-23-2009, 01:52

Gaetan, who has been silent most of this time, finally shrugs at the Princes words.

"I would ask forgiveness for not coming to your aid when I saw that another German army had come upon your flank that you were not watching, and to blindly kill my men and myself in a flurry as you tried to find out how much those who surrendered to you were worth and had finished raiding the baggage train."

"However, I do not see it being forth coming, so I will not ask of it."

Ramses II CP

09-23-2009, 02:17

Louis acknowledges de Rethel's comments with a wave of his hand,

"No Frenchman riding to my aid would be killed out of hand, but neither did I send anyone to ask your help. You have done me no wrong in Germany and need not ask forgiveness for this matter.

No, I will keep the possibility of treachery in my mind, especially given how this war began, but I am not one to hide from my mistakes. I sought to profit from ransoming the Germans rather than running them down as they fled. Having captured more than twice my own numbers I lost control of the situation when the last German force came onto the field, and was forced to abandon my own supplies and the field to them. Those men quickly re-armed themselves and would have joined the attackers had we stood to fight, making for an army four times greater than my own.

It is not from pride that I say I could have defeated them again, they are merely Germans after all, but the cost to my own forces would have been very great, and I judged the need was slight. If they dare depart Bern to approach France I will return and meet them once more, only without mercy.

I will also say that if any man here, the King excepted because he is the true lion of France, has never known defeat it is only because he has fought too few battles."

:egypt:

ULC

09-23-2009, 04:33

Gaetan shook his head.

"Whether you had asked it of me or not, I had decided it would be best if I observe at the very least. However, by the time I had caught wind of the second army, I could do nothing but look on, or at the very least helplessly charge into them."

Gaetan however stand and bows deeply before Prince Louis.

"But, at this moment of consideration, I would like to withdraw my earlier statements about Prince Louis. He has proven me in my eyes he is willing to throw his personal agenda to the side when the Royaume has need of him, and his name need no longer be slandered. As a token of my sincerity and willingness to prove that my words are true, I would ask that the Prince accept an oath of fealty to him or one of his men."

econ21

09-23-2009, 09:36

A letter arrives from Hermant Mausvoisin in Frankfurt:

My Lords,

I have heard of the return of Chevalier de Rethel to the Kingdom and rumours of a reconciliation between him and the House of Acquitaine.

In the same spirit of reconciliation, I offer my unreserved apologies to the honourable Chevalier for my unchivalric conduct towards him. If I have impugned his honour, I will give him satisfaction in a duel at a time and place of his choosing. Otherwise, I wish him and the House of Acquitaine every success in their efforts for the greater good of France.

Vive le Roi! Vive la France!

Hermant

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 10:27

Hearing the name of Frankfurt mentioned by the scribe reading Mauvoisin's letter, Philippe winces.

I don't know about you, Mes Seigneurs, but to hear the name of our ancestors the Franks used in the guttural tongue of the Germans raises my hackles...

If the Sieur de Saint Amand is willing, I think it is time we rename the city in a more suitable and prononceable manner.

As the city is a bastion of the Franks, an outpost in holding at bay the German hordes, may I suggest renaming it Fort des Francs or Fort Franc (OOC : Frank Fort) ? Or can someone provide a more suitable name ?

Ignoramus

09-23-2009, 10:58

Gaspard de Neufville jumps to his feet.

"Bon messieurs, I say that the city of Frankfurt be renamed Passéaux, as there are is no water near the city. While not so grand as a Fort, it may perhaps help the populace be reconciled to the return of their city to our rule.

KnightnDay

09-23-2009, 11:45

The city will remain Frankfurt. Although our enemy may be inferior, they have their pride as do we. If the Kaiser's men were in Paris and it was renamed Kaiserstadt, how would we feel? We would be insulted. It is enough of a challenge trying to make peace with the empire. I have no desire to make negotiations more difficult by renaming their former capital and antagonizing their people in the process.

Ignoramus

09-23-2009, 13:46

Turning to Thomas, Gaspard remarks wryly.

"Bon type, perhaps the Germans' pride would be best upheld if the city was ruled by Germans?

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 14:46

I will not force your hand in this Saint-Amand, the city is yours and rightfully so but I meant it as an honour to our soldiers who fell taking the city from the hands of Kaiser Heinrich and those who died preventing Maximilian from reclaiming it.

I also simply thought that it was much better sounding... We must start modeling the world in our view, only thus can the conquered begin to see that we will rule over them.

Ramses II CP

09-23-2009, 15:03

Perhaps we must simply wait until there are no more Germans before we rename the city. It is surely only a matter of time with their foolish insistence on warring with us and the Papacy.

Louis' face has cleared and his voice no longer carries the undertone of anger. As he turns to Gaetan de Rethel a look of understanding and compassion comes into his eyes,

Sir de Rethel I am pleased to hear your words. As the Holy Father above teaches, all men may err and require redemption. I have experienced this myself on the battlefield at Bern. I would not reject your oath, but if you will hear my advice Raynaud de Xaintraillies is more in need of your service currently. He oversees our holdings in Iberia by himself, and with the Spanish faltering and fractured the threat of the heathens could explode at any time.

Let me be utterly clear Gaetan; no conflict exists between us from this day forth. We are brothers in arms serving a nation at war. I noted with admiration your boldness at the pass west of Bern even before you spoke today.

I invite you to join me at Toulouse. I mean to send reinforcements into Iberia during this term, perhaps you could escort them to Sir de Xaintrailles?

:egypt:

OverKnight

09-23-2009, 15:33

Hugues is handed a report and stands to speak.

My King and the Nobles of the Realm, I have word from Herve de Savoie, the diplomat now handling negotiations with the English.

There is good news and bad news. The bad news is that without an alliance, the English will not swap Angers and Caen for Valencia, Wales and a massive amount of florins.

The good news is that they might still be willing to deal. Herve assures me that he could obtain Caen for Valencia, Wales and around two thousand Florins. Granted this is steep, but it is a better deal than Severin de Brie could have made.

We wouldn't get all that we wanted, but we would gain a connection to Bretagne, be rid of that task from the Pope with no penalty and gain a formidable castle.

Before negotiations proceed any further, what are the thoughts of the King and the Conseil? Should we pursue this deal?

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 15:42

Duc Hugues, this is good news...

But as I feared my cousin Guillaume has raised the price... If only that deal had been sealed in due time, we would not be giving two of our provinces for one of Guillaume.

But at least it will cast a land bridge to Bretagne, my goal from the beginning and the reason why I was pushing for obtaining both Caen and Angers.

OverKnight

09-23-2009, 15:47

Hugues bows to the King.

With respect your Majesty, no amount of land is worth being yoked with an English alliance. Does the Lion lay down with the Lamb?

But this is an old argument, no? We must focus on the future.

Ramses II CP

09-23-2009, 15:51

"Bah! The English are at war with the Scots again, now is the time for us to prepare our own strike! All have respected the King's truce so that France could regain her feet, but we've found our footing now and in just a few short seasons we could have Pamplona, Bordeaux, Anger, and Caen all!

I am sorry mon Roi, but this talk of paying William for lands that are rightfully ours is distasteful to me. We should seek peace with the Germans, they are a beaten people and their remaining lands are far from France, and with that secured we should turn on the English and repay them for their years of occupying our lands!

The English are ripe for the plucking. Give us our head at long last my father, let your nobles have the war they have sought and prayed for and we will return France to her rightful state in your name!

I want to beggar the English peasants, drive their widows weeping into the streets, and set dogs on their fleeing soldiers! I want William's sons to come pleading with us for a truce from across the channel! Let us put aside diplomacy and have back what is OURS! Surely God brought war to the English because he favors our just cause?

What say you men of the Council? Do you want to buy back our castles and enrich our enemy or take them back as they were taken from us?"

The Prince's eyes are alight with joy as he speaks, and he ends with his fist raised in the air as his voices carries through the chamber.

:egypt:

Ituralde

09-23-2009, 15:57

While I don't like giving money and land to the English I think the Pope has made it clear what God thinks of the bloodshed between Christian nations. We have already been on the verge of excommunication once and are now slowly rebuilding our relations with the Holy Sea. Another war against the English would again cast us in a bad light.

OverKnight

09-23-2009, 15:58

Hugues responds.

We would have to seize what we could in one season Dauphin, for the English are well liked by the Pope, more than us at least. We would again be threatened with Excommunication if we continued our attack past that first season.

It will take time to sway the Pope to our side. It will also take time to make peace with the Germans, so far they have been intractable and we cannot press them further until they are excommunicated.

I would love to drive the English dogs into the sea, but. . .there are obstacles.

Edit: Sometimes I wish were Orthodox like the Greeks, so we wouldn't. . .never mind.

Braden

09-23-2009, 16:08

Prince Henri, who has been sitting near the back of the council, stands, arm raised for quiet

Council members,

I too feel the same as my brother here. I find myself, disagreeably, in opposition to my Roi here.

No lands or money to the English bstards. It is our people who have fought and died for such coin and holdings, let the English be pushed from the continent. I will be willing to join my brother in this worthy task indeed.

Send them to the ocean. Then and only then will I accept treaties with these people, when they are in their own lands and not ours!

I do not however believe the Germans finally beaten. They will return but I feel we are now in a position to deal with this and still have enough brave men to oust the English finally from our lands.

If someone as cautious as I, has such confidence, what is preventing us from acting upon it?

Ramses II CP

09-23-2009, 16:11

On hearing the Pope's potential objection mentioned some of the light fades in the Prince's gaze,

Yes, the Pope's favor may be expensive to purchase, but at least if we pay him we are not funding our future enemy. Obviously we will not attack this year, but let's not pay William to conquer the Scots either. If his invasion of Scotland fails perhaps he will be more amenable to a fair deal for the return of our lands. I do strongly object to offering the Bastard our hard earned money at this time.

:egypt:

Braden

09-23-2009, 16:15

Duc,

I see the political issues at hand. However, much is possible still within these confines.

Peace with the Germans is not yet obtained and I feel it will not come…formally that is. However, their ability to physically challenge us has gone. They find war on two fronts and I am confident we can destroy and repel any incursions they put against us.

As for relations with the Pope. Does not inaction against heretics and Muslims increase the Holy Fathers anger? Would action against the heretics in Iberia increase our standing with the Holy Father so that we will be in better favour to carry out a campaign against the English?

OverKnight

09-23-2009, 16:24

Hugues turns to Henri.

Young Prince, for now the Germans seem subdued, but events (OOC: :wink:) can intervene. Their allies, the Poles, could come to their aid. Or another oppurtunistic power could join the fray.

We are to low, currently, in the eyes of the Pope to call for a Crusade. I don't know if a conventional war with the Moors would aid us with the Holy Father.

As Seneschal, I must do my best to enforce the Edicts passed by this body. An exchange of land is called for, a war is not. A Crusade is not.

Braden

09-23-2009, 16:43

Duc,

I understand your restrictions. I am also bound by the edicts of the council but I cannot help wondering if a conventional war on the Moors would aid us.

Still, I am young. Perhaps my hatred for the English is too much for now.

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 17:38

Philippe raises his scepter, bringing quiet to the Conseil.

My sons, you know me... Do you truly think I relish having English soldiers tread on soil that is rightfully ours ? Do you truly think I enjoy having to lower myself to haggle with them for the return of our rightful possesions ?

Nevertheless, my sons, I think your reasoning is faulty... But such is the enthusiasm of youth... I hear only of expenses with regards to buying our possessions back from Guillaume when I should hear about the savings...

Caen is a well-developed castle, with a port whereas Caernarvon is only a step better than a stone cave when it comes to defending and Valencia is so wrought with heathens that the Holy Father has deemed necessary to ask us to have a church built there... So I ask of you : what are those two castles but money-sinks ?

Did we acquire them at great price ? No, and thanks to the valour of our men and our generals, both came at the cost of few of our countrymen's lives.

Lastly, Caen should be the perfect staging ground should we ever decide to launch an assault on Albion.

That would be serving that bastard Guillaume some of his own medicine... Fitting, don't you think ?

So if we run a comparison, are we better off with Caen even if we have to pay florins to have it or are we better off without it ?

ULC

09-23-2009, 18:11

AussieGiant

09-23-2009, 19:25

Alain is handed a sheet of paper from his mercenary captain. He reads and in a particularly stiff fashion stands and bows formally to the King.

"My liege, I intend on departing Wales. Do you have any issue wiz me taking ze 'rest' of my troops wiz me?"

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 19:41

Philippe looks keenly at Alain.

Funny how necessity brings respect... or the semblance thereof...

You have my permission, Duc Alain though I would simply ask you to leave a single company in the city or make arrangements with the Senechal to provide for a replacement company when you leave. It would be unseemly to leave the city ungarrisoned in view of the English... Unless of course, our Senechal manages to trade it to Guillaume.

AussieGiant

09-23-2009, 19:46

Alain shakes his head in disgust.

Yes, your most recent actions simply endear furzer loyalty and respect from me my lord.

I simply zought zat before you dismiss any MORE of my men, men who I recruit, men who fought for me and gave YOU Caernarvon, I would save zem from being dispersed into ze Welsh country side.

So, I zank you for your permission and respectfully recommend you command ze Seneschal yourself as to which regiments you wish recruited.

_Tristan_

09-23-2009, 20:08

Philippe glares at Alain.

I'm truly shocked, Alain... And I thought you would approve cutting funds for mercenaries as, only last season, you chastised me for "spending lavishly"... The men may have helped you take Caernarvon but that was 10 seasons ago and what have they accomplished since ? Nothing aside from taking our gold, drinking our wine and living the good life at our expense...

I thought that the money spent on their luxuries could be better spent elsewhere, where it matters...

I didn't think you of all people would find fault with that...

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-23-2009, 20:32

Yvon shakes his head

if we hand Valencia to them then we will be surrounded on two sides. When they do attack, and they will, then we are going to be fighting a vicious war, and it will not be on our terms. My lord appears correct to me, It is our land, why should we pay them an arm and a leg for it?

Yvon turns to Gaetan, face hardening

It appears times change, brother in arms.

Braden

09-23-2009, 21:06

My Lords, I am truely in favour of granting Caernarvon to the English in a deal to cain Caen...and good luck to them.

It is the insistance of giving so much coin AND Valencia that sticks in my craw.

On thinking though I realise why so much coin is required...Velencia is just too far from the English crown to be controlled by them without significant expense to them. They are clearly not fools.

If we had a holding in Ireland or Norway I feel our deal would be struck with little coin or, indeed, arguments from the Council.

Velencia, for me, is a staging post for any quests against the heretics and should not be relinquished if at all possible.

As it stands however, Caen would be of much use to us.

I put my feelings to the Council and to my King, I can do nothing more.

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-23-2009, 21:15

Also, what do the Milanese think they are doing? As it stands two separate armies have marched from Italy and are making their merry way through Burgandy and Toulouse. I do not remember allowing them to do any such thing? This seems a breach of protocol that we should definitely try and fix. The armies are small so far, but I think we need to get it in these foolish Italians heads that we do not appreciate this behavior.

TinCow

09-23-2009, 21:41

Christophe yawns and opens an eye.

Apologies, good sirs, I appear to have fallen asleep in the wrong place. I thought this was the Conseil due Royaume, where gathered the proud and courages nobles of France. I see that I was wrong and that I am instead surrounded by miserly merchants with no taste for battle. Please pardon me, as I had no desire to interrupt your petty hagglings. Could someone be so good as to direct me to whence I could find those men whose sacks are filled with brass, rather than gold?

_Tristan_

09-24-2009, 09:19

Philippe looks at de Perrone.

And pray tell us, de Perrone, of your accomplishments ? Have done anything else but follow in the wake of my son Louis, with the baggage train, so to speak ? Here are men that have fought valiantly for the Crown and for France (pointing towards the benches of Lorraine and the benches of the Order) so keep your insults to yourself unless you have something useful to say.

There is more brass in these men's sacks that there will ever be in yours, they've proven it.

OverKnight

09-24-2009, 10:11

Hugues mutters to himself, "Flung by my own trebuchet" and then stands to speak.

My King and Seigneurs, we have all served the realm in different ways. Some in battle, some in diplomacy and some in administration. All service is valued.

Hugues glances at the King after saying this and then continues.

The question on the table is whether the deal that we can reach with the English is good for the Realm. The King has raised several fine points for it, and I agree with his Majesty. Others have stated we shouldn't buy what we can take by force.

I can understand those views, but given the current circumstances and edicts, I am inclined to make the deal.

Edit: Hugues turns to Lacaze.

I will keep an eye on the Milanese. I'll have more to say on the matter once I have the latest reports.

AussieGiant

09-24-2009, 10:24

"The agreement is not ideal but it brings us a step closer to our goal.

In zat regard I also zink we should move forward wiz ze proposition."

Ignoramus

09-24-2009, 10:52

Gaspard rises to speak.

"I must urge the Seneschal not to push forward with a deal that is disadvantageous to the realm. Sooner or later, the Normans will wage war upon us. We are all aware of Guillaume's greed, and his ambition is no doubt to put our Roi's crown upon his own brow. He will thus only conclude a deal which furthers those plans.

Instead, I suggest that we make our peace with the Germans and rush to aid the Scots, who are now, as we speak, fighting a war against the Normans. Should they be overwhelmed, then the whole of Albion - saving Caernarvon, will be in the hands of our greatest enemies. With the whole of the resources of those lands, six rich and prosperous provinces, Guillaume will be well placed to launch an assault upon our under defended lans.

Under most circumstances, I would gladly agree to negotiation over the sword, but the simple fact is that our neighbour cannot be trusted. I am sure our Roi remembers when Guillaume fought against his father, Henri. His plans were frustrated then, so we can be sure he will not hesitate to seize any favourable occasion to seek revenge.

I urge you, Duc Hugues, do not go through with this treaty. Instead, let us sharpen our lances and ready our mail, and ride forth to drive the Normans from these shores!

Gaspard resumes his seat.

OverKnight

09-24-2009, 11:17

Hugues responds to Gaspard.

Chevalier, I have reported to the Conseil how hard it would be to make peace with the Germans. I cannot snap my fingers and make it happen. Peace would most likely involve concessions of land and money. This has already been soundly spoken against.

The Scots, barring intervention from the Pope, seem to be doomed.

I do not want to fight a war on two fronts.

Braden

09-24-2009, 11:23

I will keep my Kings council on these matters for now. A continued offensive war against the English, though appealing to many of us at so many levels would only result ultimately in Excommunication.

That would be an unacceptable price indeed, no matter the cultural need we have to have our own lands back.

I can wait for this.

Thinking to the future, I see our quest into Iberia as something we will need to do in the near years, the cleansing of the Heretics is something that must call all of us eventually…Muslim presence on the continent will not be tolerated for much longer.

To this end, I ask, how will relinquishing control of our Iberian holdings hamper this? It is an open question but one the Seneschal and the King must consider.

Caen will be big boost to our nation that is certain and link our Kingdom finally, I care not for Wales so that leaves only the consideration of coin…can we truly afford this cost? With Caen under our domain finally, would the income from here pay for itself?

The next issue is the Milanese. I too have heard reports of at least one army, small this is true, near our Mediterranean coast. They are certainly no direct military threat as they are small but they can stop trade, affecting the states income, and if they do have aggressive intent they are more than capable of besieging one of our cities and potentially starving it out before aid arrives.

Should we strike at such an army though, even if they are in our own territory…would we…AGAIN…be verbally assaulted by the Papacy for striking at our Catholic neighbours?

Personally, I would see a small force sent to destroy these incursions where-ever they occur but perhaps just a significantly superior force needs to chaperone these forces away from our provinces?

Of course, it would also be more advantageous to attack these formations as the Milanese are rich and could pay ransom for their wandering men but I still am perplexed by the Popes responses to us of late.

Marcus Agrippa

09-24-2009, 12:03

My lords,

We have lived in a land that is oppressed and subjugated by the English for too long.
We have not shown them that we even dislike this situation and so the Scots think us unlikely allies.
The English also hold the most strategically useful regions available to us.
Three castles we need to make a professional army, two of which can develop trade and a navy.
One which doesn't need protection due to being surrounded by France.

All this and we have crusaded east and south, our holdings in Spain are under defended and vulnerable to the Moors. Our east holds on a knife edge with Germans being defeated Against the odds.
And the Italians march unopposed through our south and could take advantage of our small numbers.

I must ask why have we not liberated our home Provence's and built our military to defend our foreign conquests.
I care not why such a crusade into german lands happened but if the senechal doesn't wish to trade it back to them he must look to building a stronger military because the Germans will keep trying to take it back.

TinCow

09-24-2009, 12:09

Christophe bows his head towards the King.

Of course, my Lord, my apologies. I did not realize that you disapproved of your nobles serving their lieges in battle. I most humbly apologize for fighting with Prince Louis at Valencia and Bern. I will endeavor to make sure that I ignore my rightful Lords' pleas for aid when I am nearby, particularly if that Lord is you. I would not wish to disappoint you in such a direct manner.

By the way, my King, what is the proper etiquette for dealing with one of your own vassals who has surpassed you in power? Do you bow to him, or does he bow to you? It must be very awkward for Duke William to receive your diplomats, under the circumstances. Just thinking of the protocol involved is giving me a headache!

Ramses II CP

09-24-2009, 12:18

Hearing the King speak to de Perrone so Louis raises an eyebrow,

Mon Roi I must protest, Christophe de Perrone has fought admirably under my command on several occassions. The only reason he has not taken a command himself is that I have not asked it of him. At Valencia he helped me drag down the mighty general El Cid, and though I do not doubt the courage of the men you mention I do say none of them has faced a foe so renowned as that Spanish rebel.

If my Hawk is vocal in his displeasure over bartering with the English this does him no discredit in my eyes. We know they will play us false in the full course of events. Do any here doubt that war is inevitable?

That being the accepted truth before God the matter becomes a simple question of whether the war begins on William's terms or our own. Right now he is engaged in foolishness to his north with the Scots, even as we are engaged to the east, for the moment. I say we could reclaim all our lands before he turned his war machine back to us, forcing him to fight his way across the Channel.

How can any red blooded Frenchman deny a desire to win back our provinces in battle rather than buying them over the table?

:egypt:

Braden

09-24-2009, 12:38

*Henri hears Phillips words and rises*

Again brother you change your ideals. First you call, as I did, for war on the English...then after being reminded of the very real consequences, you withdraw your statement and now you stand again to call for war?

Do you not remember why you cow'd before? Need you be reminded, do ANY of us need reminding of the consequences if we are Excommunicated?!?

Before you a choice then my Lords here present. Hold our German frontiers and wage war on the English and BE DAMNED...in the eyes of the Pope and God or gather our forces, defend our borders..ALL of our borders and strike on England when we have men and horse to do the deed so swiftly that the Pope will have no option but to accept our claims.

Ramses II CP

09-24-2009, 13:09

My good brother, I did no such thing. I simply said it would be more expensive to buy the Pope's favor, but that does not mean it isn't worth doing. I know that you are new to the Council but I ask that you pay more attention to the proceedings if you wish to contribute.

Prince Louis smiles in Henri's direction.

:egypt:

Braden

09-24-2009, 13:22

*A note is passed to Henri, which he reads and nods to himself before standing*

“Louis my brother, that is so. Perhaps with the coin gained from the English held provinces and our Sisters boundless skills, favour of the Pope can be regained.

We must though build up our forces more. We are battered from besting our German neighbours so perhaps a time of consolidation of our armies is overdue?”

*Henri sits again and starts to write a note before handing to a page who disappears via a side door*

TinCow

09-24-2009, 13:25

Christophe nods vigorously in agreement.

By paying Duke William, we will receive one-third of our occupied lands and the King will be forced to formally acknowledge one of his own vassals as an equal. By paying the Pope, all of France will be re-united and the honor and prestige of the French Houses will be upheld. I clearly do not understand diplomacy or finance as well as some of the rest of you, but it seems to me that even if the cost of dealing with the Pope is greater, the benefits are more than enough to make it a superior investment.

KnightnDay

09-24-2009, 13:43

Having observed the debate with great interest, Baron Thomas rises to speak.

"Gentlemen, we desire much the same, and that is the proper unification of our lands that rightfully belong to us. The issue is how to accomplish this. Although things are not moving as quickly as some would like, let us not ignore the fact that very real progress is being made in our standing in Rome. We are favored over England, and the Huns, well...we know that they are mere steps away from being denied the sacrament. Would any man here accept that same sentence of excommunication? I think not.

I favor no sort of alliance or negotiation with England. God will favor the righteous, we need only prove not just in words, but in deeds, that we are so. Talks of a crusade against the Moors may serve such a purpose, but the Kaiser's men at our doorstep make that a difficult proposition. But consider if you will that we have a church under construction in Paris and a small church in Marseilles. This will raise our standing in Rome. We can improve it further still by building other signs of our faith. The construction of a chapel in Toulouse, a small chapel in Metz and similar structures in other places would serve this purpose and not be financially crippling.

If we were to follow this path, surely the Pope would see we are true to our faith, so much so that he might countenance an act against the English should they continue warring on the Scots, or should our enemy to the east be excommunicated, we might be favored with an opportunity to call for a crusade in their lands increasing our standing still further compared to England.

Finally we should consider pulling back our troops in the east back to invite the Kaiser to bring damnation upon his people by laying siege to a town or two. All of what I suggest goes to one point, to demonstrate to God and the Holy See that our course is a rightous one. The question I put before you now is will my lords support such a course?"

Ituralde

09-24-2009, 14:07

Simon rises and bows towards the King.

As Captain of the Order of the Fleur de Lys I want to express the gratitude felt by me and my Brother Knights to you, for granting us a separate command. We will keep a close eye on the German border and keep our new posessions safe. If the Baron of Frankfurt needs specific help don't hesitate to ask for it. We will stay in the area and attack any German that dares put his feet on our land!

Braden

09-24-2009, 14:17

OverKnight

09-24-2009, 18:36

Reeves brings in a large sheath of papers and dumps it on Hugues's desk, adding to an already impressive pile of paper. The Duc looks on impassively, his eyes empty, staring into the middle distance.

Suddenly he stands.

Gentleman, you seem to be under the impression that I am some sort of demi-god when it comes to Seneschaling! That I piss florins and fart spearmen! That I could fight two wars and somehow weasal us out of excommunication at the same time, and hell why not throw a Crusade on top!

I am not that good! I am average, hell I'm ignorant! What I am trying to do in my own mundane way is to fight one war succesfully while not getting all of us damned and implement the Edicts most of you voted for only a few seasons ago!

Gah, it's like herding cats!

The Duc returns to his desk and begins to drink.

Ramses II CP

09-24-2009, 23:56

A note is slipped to Prince Louis, who has been brooding quietly between sending his page scrambling off with fresh orders. After reading the missive (OOC: Yep, he can read!) Louis' eyes visibly widen, and he sits up abruptly in his chair. Chortling quietly he stands and declares,

Congratulations to my dear sister Constance on her, err, sudden marriage to one-

Louis pauses to consider the note and deliberately stumbles over the name,

Burrrbues Slelvios?

I am sure he is a fine young chap Mon Roi! Just the type to take my sweet, lovely, delightful sister in hand. I mean to go and pray for him... ahh, for them this very instant!

Louis' amusement as he departs is obviously of immense proportions, beyond even what this unexpected announcement would seem to warrant. The Prince actually giggles like a girl as he reaches the door, tucking in his chin to try to contain a greater eruption. Almost like he knows something, like this event will serve his purposes in some unimaginable way...

:egypt:

Cultured Drizzt fan

09-25-2009, 00:33

The next issue is the Milanese. I too have heard reports of at least one army, small this is true, near our Mediterranean coast. They are certainly no direct military threat as they are small but they can stop trade, affecting the states income, and if they do have aggressive intent they are more than capable of besieging one of our cities and potentially starving it out before aid arrives.

Should we strike at such an army though, even if they are in our own territory…would we…AGAIN…be verbally assaulted by the Papacy for striking at our Catholic neighbours?

Personally, I would see a small force sent to destroy these incursions where-ever they occur but perhaps just a significantly superior force needs to chaperone these forces away from our provinces?

Of course, it would also be more advantageous to attack these formations as the Milanese are rich and could pay ransom for their wandering men but I still am perplexed by the Popes responses to us of late.

Ad the baron of Marseilles I would like nothing more to see the Italians sent running back to there homes, and for us to follow through and take the wealth of Italy. However, sadly we do not have the resources in place to start and finish such a campaign, and if current trends hold we will not have it for a long time yet. This war worth the Germans bleeds us dry, and we can not afford to turn our eye elsewhere, for without our constant harassment they might be able to gather together and push our forces back. It is for a similar reason we must be wary of any crusades we seek to call, for if we move forces from the east front I believe we will soon find our gains thus far gone. But I believe I may be off topic.... I was talking of the Milanese not the Germans. If they continue to loiter around our land I assure you they shall find myself marching against them soon enough, whether we have proper forces in place or not!

OverKnight

09-25-2009, 03:53

Hugues stands, a bit refreshed.

I thank the Nobles of the Realm for their efforts, but the building of watchtowers is no longer needed.

(OOC: Don't build watchtowers if you take the save. I'll do it.)

Thank you.

Ignoramus

09-25-2009, 03:59

On hearing the Dauphin speak, Gaspard rises to his feet and speaks solemnly.

"I do not know who this fellow is, but I hereby challenge him to a duel. Let us see what this fellow is made of."

Noticing the alarmed faces, Gaspard hurriedly continues.

"Not to the death, bon messieurs, do not worry. I only wish to cross sword and lance with the newest member of the royal family."

Gaspard resumes his seat.

Braden

09-25-2009, 08:28

Ad the baron of Marseilles I would like nothing more to see the Italians sent running back to there homes, and for us to follow through and take the wealth of Italy. However, sadly we do not have the resources in place to start and finish such a campaign, and if current trends hold we will not have it for a long time yet. This war worth the Germans bleeds us dry, and we can not afford to turn our eye elsewhere, for without our constant harassment they might be able to gather together and push our forces back. It is for a similar reason we must be wary of any crusades we seek to call, for if we move forces from the east front I believe we will soon find our gains thus far gone. But I believe I may be off topic.... I was talking of the Milanese not the Germans. If they continue to loiter around our land I assure you they shall find myself marching against them soon enough, whether we have proper forces in place or not!

My lord. Rest assured, I was only speaking of harrying or attacking those formations actually within our lands to ensure proper flow of trade. We are not in a fit state to assault them directly.

...that is an interesting developement with my Sister...

_Tristan_

09-25-2009, 09:19

Philippe smiles to the assembled nobles.

Ah, Constance... Ever the one for surprises it seems... I had heard from one of her maid that some young Italian lad had caught her eye, but knowing my daughter I was surprised to hear her talk of marriage...

Nevertheless the man is of good standing, part of the Venetian ruling family and with a claim to the Doge seat, even if tenuous. And if he's willing to deal with Constance, I wish all the good to him...

To the newly weds !! (Philippe raises a goblet brought by a servant for a toast)

To celebrate such a joyful occasion, I think it is high time I made amends... A good ruler should recognize when or where he's in the wrong, and that I have been these past few years...

I wish to apologize to Duc Alain for the harshness in words and deeds I may have displayed against him and his House.

He surely didn't make things easy on him but I can allow for his surliness and anger with the unfair treatment I've been giving him.

I set him as Senechal a difficult mission, a mission at which he didn't balk or quail in fear at but tried to accomplish to the best of his abilities. He succeeded in what few could have accomplished : taking land on the British Isle under the nose of Guillaume, a thorn in the British lion side, a thorn which may serve us well to kick the English out of France.

And this was accomplished while he also had to manage the day-to-day life of the Royaume as Senechal, a balancing feat few ould have been capable of.

I hope Alain will accept my apologies and should he do so, I offer him as a reconcilation gift the good city of Bruges, as a token of my faith in him to be a good servant of the Royaume.

Should he accept the gift, all I would require of him is to release the men garrisoning Bruges and send them back to Paris to bolster the defences of our Capital City.

OverKnight

09-25-2009, 09:28

Hugues bows to the King.

A gracious offer your Majesty.

Hugues looks expectantly at Alain.

I am sure the Duc will accept.

A tinge of doubt can be heard in his voice.

Braden

09-25-2009, 09:50

*Prince Henri dutifully reads the Sceneshals reports*

My lords, it is a great pity that the Pope chooses this moment to Excommunicate the English is it not. We have lost one good holding in Iberia and 1,700 florins but Gods will is done and to this end the calls of this council to strike at England must be considered in more detail and seriously. Should we not strike at a neighbour who has fallen so far...what would the Pope feel towards us? I sincerely hope that we take this opportunity to unify France fully and completely. Whilst I do not believe an assault on Englands isles is prudent we could again look to Valencia as another avenue of battle with the English once, and only once, the remaining provinces of France are in our rightful hands.

The Germans worry me still of course but I believe that the Kings army near Frankfurt and the garrison at Dijon will be sufficient to stifle incursions from both the Upper and Lower Rhine areas, especially if the Kings Army withdraws to a point between Frankfurt and Metz.

My sister Constance, I wish her all happiness...for truly to have a daughter so rapidly after marriage must indicate happiness...I will miss her deeply though but her husband seems to have the makings of a significant governor and in the near future I hope that we will have need of such people when we take back what is ours.

OverKnight

09-25-2009, 10:05

Hugues nods a bit sheepishly.

I am not a seer. I made the best deal I could with the knowledge I had at the time.

I expect there to be much discussion in the Conseil about war with England and a possible Crusade.

However, the Germans have not rolled over. They still hide behind the Pope's robes and regain their strength. If we strip our Realm of forces to pursue a Crusade, we open up ourselves to German invasion. While I am working toward developing the finances of the Kingdom, I do not believe we are strong enough, yet, to support two wars at once.

deguerra

09-25-2009, 10:05

Prince Henri, forgive me for speaking so bluntly, but your desire for war worries me. I understand that you youths need to get some blood smeared on you to cover up the wetness behind your ears, but I for one strongly discourage any sort of armed conflict against yet another foe when we have not even managed to come to a settlement in the last rash war.

In any case, it is my belief that our rightful lands in France can be reclaimed with a minimum of bloodshed, most preferably through negotiation. Now that they have managed to incur the wrath of his holiness, who seems to change his mind more swiftly than a child of three, they will all the more be looking for a friend. I do not speak for an alliance with Albion, but surely even they must recognise their position is hardly strong (OOC: If only Raoul knew about the Total War AI).

Finally, let me congratulate Constance on her marriage, even though the nationality of the groom is only outmatched in curiosity by his age.

AussieGiant

09-25-2009, 10:14

Alain stands slowly and bows to the King.

Your Majesty, I accept your sincere apology 'ere in zis shamber and give you mine in return. I apologies for my past tone and anger toward ze King.

I appreciate ze words you 'ave spoken 'ere which go a long way towards creating a better understand of what occurred all zose years ago.

Zank you my King.

I will move my seat to Bruges and send you ze requested troops to Paris as soon as I 'ave ze city garrisoned.

Some what stiffly Alain continues.

I also congratulate Princess Constance on 'er marriage and wish 'er good 'ealth and 'appiness in ze future.

There is a stiffled laugh by members of his retinue at the last statement. Medoc turns and grumbles his displeasure, quietening the situation immediately.

Braden

09-25-2009, 10:16

My lord Châtillon,

You would have us negotiate with a King who has been judged Heretic? I speak of war with only the English…as a Frenchman this is not a “desire” but a necessity. The English have shown themselves to NOT be willing to negotiate at a level that we can match again.

They accepted our offer of TWO provinces AND significant coin for Caen. Surely they only accepted such a generous offer after they heard they were to be Excommunicated? Gathering provinces and coin to defend themselves…if I had been English, it is as I would have done.

I am also certain that all our hard efforts, from our hard working Seneschal, would be adversely affected if the Papacy discover we are talking in favourable terms with the English.

We have been handed an opportunity by Gods representative on Earth to reclaim our historic lands and, as a Catholic and Frenchman I cannot ignore such an opportunity.

The Germans are NOT finished, I concur, but the danger to our East is outweighed by the benefits shown us to the West…you must also note that such a campaign in the West would not have my direct involvement. I pledge to hold the Germans back with my blood and my blade so that others can free our people from the English heretic.