View Full Version : An Occultus Faction possibly worked out?
First of all I'd like to apologise beforehand for resurrecting the paranoid "occultus" subject, I'm sure some people get a bit fed up with the whole thing, so sorry about that:embarassed:.
Anyway....
Was having a look throught the RS previews today and noticed the shield design for a Bosporan Kingdom unit matches up pretty well with two of the occultus sigs.
https://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1046/logosecret5sk0.jpg
https://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7642/logo2occultus2.jpg
https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5641/scythianhoplitebosporandh4.jpg
If your not convinced have a closer look in paint or something the various shapes seem to match, if your still not convinced then fair enough it's only a suggestion.
So maybe one of the occultus factions is the Bosporan Kingdom? or some other group related to the skythians?:juggle2:
Also what would you call the mythical animal on the shield? I'm guessing icthyo-something but i can't find an answer.
anubis88
10-29-2009, 16:08
Wow... That's an interesting find... I think that you deserve for your wits to be informed if a occultus faction is the Bosphoran kingdom:clown:
Paltmull
10-29-2009, 16:40
Huh? Who's this?:inquisitive:
https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5641/scythianhoplitebosporandh4.jpg
How I love the occultus sigs!
Huh? Who's this?:inquisitive:
https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5641/scythianhoplitebosporandh4.jpg
as i said in the OP it's a Bosporan Kingdom unit from the RS (Roma Surrectum) mod.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=201431
Khazar_Dahvos
10-29-2009, 18:24
great work!!!
oudysseos
10-29-2009, 19:23
First off, let's be clear: the unit is not from EB but from Roma Surrectum, so any similarities between a shield decoration from RS and an Occultus sig from EB are almost certainly meaningless coincidence.
Second, the Hippocampus, whether with wings or without, is an very common element in Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Etruscan and Punic mythology and iconography. For example, the Hippocampus on the RS unit looks a lot like one from the so-called Treasure of Croesus of Lydia.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/HalukOzozluWwwSihirliturComKarunTreasureHippocampUsakTurkey.jpg
Though of course, if you didn't already know it, the RS unit's deco is in fact a direct copy of a famous Sarmatian falera found in the river Don. I don't have a picture handy to upload but it's a reasonably common image in the literature.
SO there is not a whole lot to uniquely connect a Hippocampus to any particular faction, much less a Bosporan Crimea faction. The Hippocampus is just as likely to be linked to a North African Punic state as to a Black Sea Greek one. Also, I have to point out that the coins from this region mostly display Griffons, Lions, Pan and Hercules. Have a look (http://www.museum.com.ua/en/nauch_isled/vestn2.html#7).
Nice try.
Paltmull
10-29-2009, 19:23
as i said in the OP it's a Bosporan Kingdom unit from the RS (Roma Surrectum) mod.
Ah, didn't know RS meant Roma Surrectum.
First off, let's be clear: the unit is not from EB but from Roma Surrectum, so any similarities between a shield decoration from RS and an Occultus sig from EB are almost certainly meaningless coincidence. I thought that considering you guy's share a lot of info and some members (kevarnos made the post i saw it in) there might be one, but i definitely see your point.
SO there is not a whole lot to uniquely connect a Hippocampus to any particular faction, much less a Bosporan Crimea faction. The Hippocampus is just as likely to be linked to a North African Punic state as to a Black Sea Greek one. Also, I have to point out that the coins from this region mostly display Griffons, Lions, Pan and Hercules. Have a look (http://www.museum.com.ua/en/nauch_isled/vestn2.html#7). I was aware of the common motifs (you missed out sprigs of wheat and dolphins as well) but i thought you might have had different info to lead you to another choice. I still think its a hippocamp of some sort in the sig but as you say that doesn't narrow it down much, ah well..
Nice try. It was wasn't it:yes:
First of all I'd like to apologise beforehand for resurrecting the paranoid "occultus" subject, I'm sure some people get a bit fed up with the whole thing, so sorry about that:embarassed:.
Anyway....
Was having a look throught the RS previews today and noticed the shield design for a Bosporan Kingdom unit matches up pretty well with two of the occultus sigs.
https://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1046/logosecret5sk0.jpg
https://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7642/logo2occultus2.jpg
https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5641/scythianhoplitebosporandh4.jpg
If your not convinced have a closer look in paint or something the various shapes seem to match, if your still not convinced then fair enough it's only a suggestion.
So maybe one of the occultus factions is the Bosporan Kingdom? or some other group related to the skythians?:juggle2:
Also what would you call the mythical animal on the shield? I'm guessing icthyo-something but i can't find an answer.
Nice try.
only one thing can describe Bobbin's situation now:clown: :
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128347587844687500fail.jpg
Hehe boy is my face red.....adjusted the thread title accordingly.
Horatius Flaccus
10-30-2009, 13:16
I think he is correct about the symbol, though. So it could still be true.
Bucefalo
10-30-2009, 13:34
I think he is correct about the symbol, though. So it could still be true.
I think the same, the symbol seems to be that one. Another thing is to know if the symbol over red background represent the bosphorian kingdom or other occultus faction.
Hehe boy is my face red.....adjusted the thread title accordingly.
That's really not necessary. It's quite possible the first post of this thread got closer to guessing a faction than did the entire previous occultus thread. Anyway, you can only change thread titles for a short time after posting them. If you want to change it afterwards, you have to ask a moderator.
Hehe boy is my face red.....adjusted the thread title accordingly.
don't be. you probably got it right-you only "fail" for getting it right for the wrong reasons.:clown:
Andronikos
10-31-2009, 16:29
The idea of that being an ichtycentaur came in the previous occultus thread, but this is dicovery of something VERY similar. But I think that the faction it represents has more eastern destination.
A good try, I think. I certainly hope there is a Bosporan faction.
Phalanx300
11-02-2009, 23:14
Well he wasn't denying that is wasn't the creature, so its an faction of the peoples he listed so at least another "civilized" faction.
And another thing, if anyone would actually crack the occultus and gues correctly would the EB team tell so or would they try to make him think otherwise? :inquisitive:
Well he wasn't denying that is wasn't the creature, so its an faction of the peoples he listed so at least another "civilized" faction.
Going by coinage the most times I've seen the symbol has been on coins from Taras, Phoenicia and Syracuse.
The first two are unlikely so maybe Syracuse?, it is a very common widely spread symbol though (it was even popular with the indogreeks) so i'm not that certain and this was from just looking at coins.
Phalanx300
11-03-2009, 11:47
Going by coinage the most times I've seen the symbol has been on coins from Taras, Phoenicia and Syracuse.
The first two are unlikely so maybe Syracuse?, it is a very common widely spread symbol though (it was even popular with the indogreeks) so i'm not that certain and this was from just looking at coins.
Syracuse would make a great faction, rather a powerfull city state then yet another minor Succesor kingdom like Pergamon.
They would definately be one of my favourites if they are in:2thumbsup:.
Besides the Koinon ofcourse, they have the Spartans. :sweatdrop:
Skullheadhq
11-03-2009, 12:35
Nice clone of the Occultus thread that got closed, what a pity was that.
What the heck is Occultus anyway?
Skullheadhq
11-06-2009, 17:05
Nobody really knows.
anubis88
11-06-2009, 17:13
What the heck is Occultus anyway?
Occultus is latin for hidden
Meneldil
11-07-2009, 11:07
Don't EB and RS share some members? If that's the case, your guess might very well have some basis. Or not.
Don't EB and RS share some members? If that's the case, your guess might very well have some basis. Or not.
A few, Keravnos who made the thread is the faction coordinator for various factions and a long time (EB) member.
Skullheadhq
11-10-2009, 17:34
You were right after all, check the new preview!
yeah I saw it yesterday, even if it was a bit of a fluke I'm still feeling mighty pleased with myself:yes:
Skullheadhq
11-10-2009, 18:41
only one thing can describe Bobbin's situation now:clown: :
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128347587844687500fail.jpg
Only one thing can describe Ibrahim's situarion now:clown: :
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128347587844687500fail.jpg
Only one thing can describe Ibrahim's situarion now:clown: :
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128347587844687500fail.jpg
:laugh4::clown:
how did I fail? as I said, he got this for guessing correcly, for the wrong reasons.:clown:
but I have to say this: congrats Bobbin:2thumbsup:
here's a balloon:balloon2:
Ionut Alex
11-11-2009, 08:20
First of all yes I know how this sounds bu what exactly is an Occultus faction :embarassed::embarassed::embarassed:
ziegenpeter
11-11-2009, 09:13
Its an upcoming faction wich has not been revealt. The team members working on that faction have a sig banner saying "Occultis" and showing tiny bits of the faction's symbol
Owen Glyndwr
11-17-2009, 19:53
And if you guess the faction correctly, as evinced by the Sauromatae preview, the EB team will announce the occultus.
machinor
11-18-2009, 13:44
The game is on again!!
moonburn
11-19-2009, 12:54
my guess is on the arevaci
celtiberians on the iberian peninsula to make it fun over there cause it gets pretty boring sometimes unleass on those rare ocasions where carthies and luso´s are challanged by both romani/arverni and the greeks
also this time with cimmeria in the greek cities on the pontos euxinus will no longer rebel to the kh and with syracuse (trully wishing those one´s) maybe in an alliance with massilya (a kind of chromeniades league but with the western greeks of syracure and massilia trying to reconquer the western mediterranium ) playing the kh will be less of a problem regarding those rebelious greeks scaterred around the mediterranium (altough this less dificulty can make it a tad boring)
anubis88
11-19-2009, 16:29
my guess is on the arevaci
celtiberians on the iberian peninsula to make it fun over there cause it gets pretty boring sometimes unleass on those rare ocasions where carthies and luso´s are challanged by both romani/arverni and the greeks
also this time with cimmeria in the greek cities on the pontos euxinus will no longer rebel to the kh and with syracuse (trully wishing those one´s) maybe in an alliance with massilya (a kind of chromeniades league but with the western greeks of syracure and massilia trying to reconquer the western mediterranium ) playing the kh will be less of a problem regarding those rebelious greeks scaterred around the mediterranium (altough this less dificulty can make it a tad boring)
Why would they do that? I mean joining Massylia and Syracuse would be completely out of the EB spirit for representing history.
oudysseos
11-19-2009, 18:55
Chromeniades League
Hadn't heard of that one... are they trying to force us all to use Google's web browser? It works o.k., I guess.
syracure
Them either. Sounds like a Syrian Medical NGO.
western mediterranium
You mean a medium-sized one of these with a Country and Western motif?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_E3JuNPBHVWc/SMwv2VuWn3I/AAAAAAAAAoU/nyU2HQ-6OVw/s320/Terranium.jpg
scaterred around the mediterranium
I'm kinda scared of this idea: either you're talking about filling up your Medium Sized Terranium with bear feces or the music of Ella Fitzgerald, which doesn't really fit the Western motif. Neither of those is really our scene, man.
To sum up: are you suggesting that one of our factions be Syrian Volunteer Medics, who force other factions to use Google Chrome, while living in Glass Jars filled with miniature cacti, armadillos and bear droppings? It's doubtful, I have to say. What would the faction symbol be?
And if you guess the faction correctly, as evinced by the Sauromatae preview, the EB team will announce the occultus.
Not just guess, demonstrate like bobbin. Otherwise it doesn't matter, if all would post "I think one the new factions is Bartyx" eventualy someone will be right.
Owen Glyndwr
11-19-2009, 20:23
Not just guess, demonstrate like bobbin. Otherwise it doesn't matter, if all would post "I think one the new factions is Bartyx" eventualy someone will be right.
My mistake, it is as you say.
I should point out that working out a new occultus faction would be kinda hard since there is only one occultus sig still knocking about (I remember a second one but it seems to have disappeared) which IIRC is not a faction symbol but a building.
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9154/logosecret7.jpg
Good luck working that out.
To sum up: are you suggesting that one of our factions be Syrian Volunteer Medics, who force other factions to use Google Chrome, while living in Glass Jars filled with miniature cacti, armadillos and bear droppings? It's doubtful, I have to say. What would the faction symbol be?
:laugh4:
I should point out that working out a new occultus faction would be kinda hard since there is only one occultus sig still knocking about (I remember a second one but it seems to have disappeared) which IIRC is not a faction symbol but a building.
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9154/logosecret7.jpg
Good luck working that out.
:laugh4:
is there a face on that that's being obscurred? in the middle, and a bit right, it looks as if there was a painting of something in a fleshy tone.:inquisitive:
Thats the one i remember, I can only say it looks vaguely celtic so maybe the Boii or a celtiberian or belgic tribe. :juggle2:
is there a face on that that's being obscurred? in the middle, and a bit right, it looks as if there was a painting of something in a fleshy tone.:inquisitive:
No idea, the only thing i can make out is possibly a hand just below the O.
enjoy:
that's a lion's head on there! a lion's head! (notice the snout at the front)!
now whether that's a full lion or not I dunno. but if it is, it leaves a few options. what they are, I dunno :clown:
Apázlinemjó
11-20-2009, 09:51
The latest retweets deal with barbaroi units, maybe we get a barbarian faction in the next preview?
HunGeneral
11-20-2009, 10:38
https://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5392/logosecret6gi7.jpg
I don't know for sure but that "lump" above the first U somehow makes me think that its supposed to be a bull. Therefore I wuld supsect were dealing with a celtiberian faction (maybe)
machinor
11-20-2009, 11:52
Since insignia in coins are often used as faction symbols I googled for Boii coins. I found this replica of an existing coin:
http://www.wulflund.com/images_items/boii-tetradrachm-replica_2.jpg
The motif on the right could be the one on the Occultus signature Moros posted. The revealed section above the "c" could be a nose.
Since insignia in coins are often used as faction symbols I googled for Boii coins. I found this replica of an existing coin:
http://www.wulflund.com/images_items/boii-tetradrachm-replica_2.jpg
The motif on the right could be the one on the Occultus signature Moros posted. The revealed section above the "c" could be a nose.
Yeah I had a look at that pic too, wasn't convinced though.
that's a lion's head on there! a lion's head! (notice the snout at the front)!
now whether that's a full lion or not I dunno. but if it is, it leaves a few options. what they are, I dunno :clown:
I can't really see it, care to explain further?
If it is a lion's head the a really goood candidate would be the Kingdom of Kartli.
https://img174.imageshack.us/img174/791/colchiscoinslt4.jpg
It is actually suppposed to be a wolf but it looks quite lion like.
You never stop, don't you?:tongue2:
Horatius Flaccus
11-20-2009, 14:53
It looks very Celtic to me too. Because it is Moros' signature, I would say it's probably Belgic. But that's just guesswork with a bit of logic.
*looking for evidence right now*
It looks very Celtic to me too. Because it is Moros' signature, I would say it's probably Belgic. But that's just guesswork with a bit of logic.
*looking for evidence right now*
Looks like Epeiros to me... :rolleyes:
Apázlinemjó
11-20-2009, 18:08
Looks like Epeiros to me... :rolleyes:
Givin' a hint? :shocked3:
You never stop, don't you?:tongue2:
Only for Jesus.:clown:
Owen Glyndwr
11-20-2009, 20:41
For the one Moros provided, the form to the left (near the O), looks like a jaguar or panther or leopard (just one of those big cats, I know some of those aren't indiginous to the old world)
Just throwing it out there.
Also the lion observation comes from the v-shape above the s, whoch kind of looks like a lion's snout at 3/4 view.
So it could be possibly a multi-headed cat-like...thing.
EDIT: Is it at all possible that it is depicting a cerberus?
Yeah I had a look at that pic too, wasn't convinced though.
I can't really see it, care to explain further?
If it is a lion's head the a really goood candidate would be the Kingdom of Kartli.
https://img174.imageshack.us/img174/791/colchiscoinslt4.jpg
It is actually suppposed to be a wolf but it looks quite lion like.
well, as Owen said lately, I noticed the nose and the tail of the thing (nose above s, the tail above and behind O.)
but yeah, what of the hump on the U area? that really confuses stuff.
how about nabatean coins? any lions on them? (I'm not saying this is nabataea, but hey, its possible). your suggestion of Kartli though looks promising.
@Owen: Leopard. Jaguars are new world, and Panthers are just over colored leopards (or jaguars). they're black from too much melanin in their fur.
Owen Glyndwr
11-21-2009, 01:46
Yeah, I realize that now. I was in class when I posted that, and spent the rest of the hour doing research on big cats hehe.
Found a few coins with a "panther" on them, but nothing with a panther and a lion.
I was briefly thinking it was maybe a Herakles type thing with a lion mounted on his head (though probably not.)
Brave Brave Sir Robin
11-21-2009, 06:54
EDIT: Is it at all possible that it is depicting a cerberus?
I thought that too when I first saw it and then the Epiros mention makes me think that even more. Remember the Epirotes generals have a cerberus on their shields. I don't know what that might mean, Syracuse maybe?
this one is harder apparantly
anubis88
11-21-2009, 12:54
To me this seems definetly like a Celtic simbol....
Olimpian
11-21-2009, 13:02
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3488/75693138.png (https://img252.imageshack.us/i/75693138.png/)
https://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4789/16999789.jpg (https://img262.imageshack.us/i/16999789.jpg/)
SNG Vol: VII 559 Manchester University Museum
State: Syracuse State: Syracuse
Ruler: Name: Hieron II Ruler: Name: Hieron II
OBV Description: Persephone. REV Description: Butting bull; above, club. OBV Description: Persephone. REV Description: Butting bull; above, club.
REV Inscription: IE REV Inscription: IE
REV Secondary Inscription: T REV Secondary Inscription: T
Period: 3rd cent -300 -200 Period: 3rd cent -300 -200
Die Axis in numbers: 3 Die Axis in degrees: 90 Metal: AE Weight: 6.35 Die Axis in numbers: 3 Die Axis in degrees: 90 Metal: AE Weight: 6.35
Wear: Very worn Cast or Struck: Struck Wear: Very worn or Struck Cast: Struck
Acquisition: Acquisition:
Manner of Acquisition: Purchase Auction House: Sotheby Date of First Day: 20/12/1920 Lot Number: 216 Manner of Acquisition: Purchase Auction House: Sotheby Date of First Day: 20/12/1920 Lot Number: 216
ID: SNGuk_0700_0559 ID: SNGuk_0700_0559
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2257/14072510.jpg (https://img134.imageshack.us/i/14072510.jpg/)
SNG Vol: VIII 224 Blackburn Museum
State: Syracuse State: Syracuse
Ruler: Name: Agathocles Ruler: Name: Agathocles
REV Symbol: above, mono REV Symbol: above, mono
OBV Description: Persephone l. REV Description: Bull butting l.; above, club. OBV Description: Persephone L. Rev Description: Bull butting l., above, club.
OBV Inscription: [SURAKOSIVN] REV Inscription: IE OBV Inscription: [SURAKOSIVN] REV Inscription: IE
Period: Last quarter 4th cent. Period: Last quarter 4th cent. -325 -300 -325 -300
Die Axis in numbers: 4 Die Axis in degrees: 120 Diameter: 19.5mm Metal: AE Weight: 5.9 Die Axis in numbers: 4 Die Axis in degrees: 120 Diameter: 19.5mm Metal: AE Weight: 5.9
Wear: Worn Cast or Struck: Struck Wear: Worn or Struck Cast: Struck
Reference: Reference:
Title: The Bronze Coinage of Agathocles Article Pages: 87-95 Type: Edited Book Article Auth/Ed: Ross Holloway, R. In Publication: 1162 Pages: 94f Title: The Bronze Coinage of Agathocles Article Pages: 87-95 Type: Edited Book Article Auth / Ed: Ross Holloway, R. In Publication: 1162 Pages: 94f
ID: SNGuk_0800_0224 ID: SNGuk_0800_0224
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/714/1083r.jpg (https://img134.imageshack.us/i/1083r.jpg/)
1083 - Sicily. Siracusa. Syracuse. Gerone II (274-216 aC). AE 18 mm. Hieron II (274-216 BC).
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6956/47691521.png (https://img252.imageshack.us/i/47691521.png/)
Roma Surrectum Minor factions (Syracuse) preview
So that is why I say: SYRACUSE
edit: nevermind..
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3488/75693138.png (https://img252.imageshack.us/i/75693138.png/)
https://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4789/16999789.jpg (https://img262.imageshack.us/i/16999789.jpg/)
SNG Vol: VII 559 Manchester University Museum
State: Syracuse State: Syracuse
Ruler: Name: Hieron II Ruler: Name: Hieron II
OBV Description: Persephone. REV Description: Butting bull; above, club. OBV Description: Persephone. REV Description: Butting bull; above, club.
REV Inscription: IE REV Inscription: IE
REV Secondary Inscription: T REV Secondary Inscription: T
Period: 3rd cent -300 -200 Period: 3rd cent -300 -200
Die Axis in numbers: 3 Die Axis in degrees: 90 Metal: AE Weight: 6.35 Die Axis in numbers: 3 Die Axis in degrees: 90 Metal: AE Weight: 6.35
Wear: Very worn Cast or Struck: Struck Wear: Very worn or Struck Cast: Struck
Acquisition: Acquisition:
Manner of Acquisition: Purchase Auction House: Sotheby Date of First Day: 20/12/1920 Lot Number: 216 Manner of Acquisition: Purchase Auction House: Sotheby Date of First Day: 20/12/1920 Lot Number: 216
ID: SNGuk_0700_0559 ID: SNGuk_0700_0559
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2257/14072510.jpg (https://img134.imageshack.us/i/14072510.jpg/)
SNG Vol: VIII 224 Blackburn Museum
State: Syracuse State: Syracuse
Ruler: Name: Agathocles Ruler: Name: Agathocles
REV Symbol: above, mono REV Symbol: above, mono
OBV Description: Persephone l. REV Description: Bull butting l.; above, club. OBV Description: Persephone L. Rev Description: Bull butting l., above, club.
OBV Inscription: [SURAKOSIVN] REV Inscription: IE OBV Inscription: [SURAKOSIVN] REV Inscription: IE
Period: Last quarter 4th cent. Period: Last quarter 4th cent. -325 -300 -325 -300
Die Axis in numbers: 4 Die Axis in degrees: 120 Diameter: 19.5mm Metal: AE Weight: 5.9 Die Axis in numbers: 4 Die Axis in degrees: 120 Diameter: 19.5mm Metal: AE Weight: 5.9
Wear: Worn Cast or Struck: Struck Wear: Worn or Struck Cast: Struck
Reference: Reference:
Title: The Bronze Coinage of Agathocles Article Pages: 87-95 Type: Edited Book Article Auth/Ed: Ross Holloway, R. In Publication: 1162 Pages: 94f Title: The Bronze Coinage of Agathocles Article Pages: 87-95 Type: Edited Book Article Auth / Ed: Ross Holloway, R. In Publication: 1162 Pages: 94f
ID: SNGuk_0800_0224 ID: SNGuk_0800_0224
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/714/1083r.jpg (https://img134.imageshack.us/i/1083r.jpg/)
1083 - Sicily. Siracusa. Syracuse. Gerone II (274-216 aC). AE 18 mm. Hieron II (274-216 BC).
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6956/47691521.png (https://img252.imageshack.us/i/47691521.png/)
Roma Surrectum Minor factions (Syracuse) preview
So that is why I say: SYRACUSE
edit: nevermind..
Hm... I certainly hope thats the case. I think Syracuse is a faction a lot of people are hoping for.
Skullheadhq
11-21-2009, 15:38
It would be too easy to just look at RS2 shields and so guess all occultus sigs right.
It would be too easy to just look at RS2 shields and so guess all occultus sigs right.
Just because that was succeeded once, I don't see why it must do again. Take a look, you won't be able to find all the answers there.
Foot
Andronikos
11-21-2009, 17:28
It looks Celtic to me too.
And guys, have you noticed this? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2365284&postcount=60
So I would say some celtiberian tribe like Arevaci.
Hm... I certainly hope thats the case. I think Syracuse is a faction a lot of people are hoping for.
its not: the tail area and that nose kinda ruin the bull theory. at least for now.:shrug:
Olimpian
11-22-2009, 16:55
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9154/logosecret7.jpg (https://img141.imageshack.us/i/logosecret7.jpg/)
I had a hunch. The font they used for this sig is "Yggdrasil" (last of the Word fonts). Now,:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil
So we have the sacred tree of the Norse.
Also: http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Yggdrasil
Quote: "Germanic cultural fondness for tree symbolism appears to have been widespread, with other patron trees such as Thor's Oak appearing in surviving accounts (8th century)"
Then: http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Thor%27s-Oak
So the hidden symbol could look something like this (more or less):
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1886/yggdrasil.jpg (https://img134.imageshack.us/i/yggdrasil.jpg/)
That is why I say: CHATTI
Phalanx300
11-22-2009, 23:09
That could be any Germanic faction. Then again any Germanic faction would be good, Chatti would be great, though perhaps the team goes for a more distant Germanic faction then again Germania was similar to Greece in earlier time, many loose states warring against eachother so having a couple of powerfull factions there would be somewhat Historical. :inquisitive:
Still hoping on an Batavian unit. :2thumbsup:
imo a bit far fetched as it solely relies on the font(which is a vaild clue tho) and the world tree was not only holy to the Chatti ... but you know that.
that definately is the least conclusive sig of them all, I can't even see consistency in any way, with the hint towards the germanics or factions with the "barbarian" culture slot, those stripes could be seen as Trees on the other Sigs I could atleast differnenciate between Logo and background but not with this one.
Chatti would be cool indeed especially as it would support my positon in an other mod :DDD
machinor
11-24-2009, 20:22
I'd say that the use of coin imagery as EB faction symbols has provided numismatics with the greatest popularity boost since... ever!
Horatius Flaccus
11-25-2009, 10:36
If it really is a lion in Moros' signature it could also be Massalia. Just look at this coin:
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Massalia_large_coin_5th_1st_century_BCE.jpg/300px-Massalia_large_coin_5th_1st_century_BCE.jpg
moonburn
11-25-2009, 11:58
maybe my idea of a massilian syracuse union to defend the greek places in the western mediterranean is not that far fetched :laugh4:
anubis88
11-25-2009, 12:02
maybe my idea of a massilian syracuse union to defend the greek places in the western mediterranean is not that far fetched :laugh4:
yes it is:laugh4:
Phalanx300
11-25-2009, 15:54
If it really is a lion in Moros' signature it could also be Massalia. Just look at this coin:
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Massalia_large_coin_5th_1st_century_BCE.jpg/300px-Massalia_large_coin_5th_1st_century_BCE.jpg
That would be great as well! :idea2:
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
Apázlinemjó
11-25-2009, 22:29
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
As in EB1 I think Aedui will have the boar as symbol again, but who knows? Maybe not?
Horatius Flaccus
11-25-2009, 23:05
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
You are right, but you can't say that the 'Koinon Hellenon' was that expansive either. And since Massalia was strongly allied with Emporion, you could have two cities.
You are right, but you can't say that the 'Koinon Hellenon' was that expansive either. And since Massalia was strongly allied with Emporion, you could have two cities.
Was it?
Horatius Flaccus
11-26-2009, 15:23
I thought I read something about troops send by Massalia to aid Emporion, but I can't recall where I read it...
From Massalia, it's very probable, it was one of the main ports of the Romans to reach Iberia. But troops from Massalia itself (and not in the context of supplying Rome with client troops) let me know if you find something.
moonburn
11-27-2009, 07:53
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
so insignificant that they forced the punii to open up the herakles colums so greeks could trade in the atlantic and many many many times forced/imposed the greek smaller setlements rights over the punii (and by punii i don´t mean just kart hadast but all the other phoenician groups in the med )
syracuse history is known as they destroyed many punic armies in the wars for sicily but massilia was leading the greeks in the war against the punii in the iberian peninsula and defending the greek rights in corsica (and even maybe sardinia and/or the baleares) , the massilian navy was feared even in ceaser´s time until julius himself had to take out the city to protect it´s back or that navy could be used to ship the pompeyan legions back to italy or into the balkans
massilia was an independent city heavily based on comerce and with one of the strongest navies in the mediterraneum for over 500 years, their adventurers are said to have went to iceland and scandinavia on their voyages
Krusader
11-27-2009, 14:34
so insignificant that they forced the punii to open up the herakles colums so greeks could trade in the atlantic and many many many times forced/imposed the greek smaller setlements rights over the punii (and by punii i don´t mean just kart hadast but all the other phoenician groups in the med )
syracuse history is known as they destroyed many punic armies in the wars for sicily but massilia was leading the greeks in the war against the punii in the iberian peninsula and defending the greek rights in corsica (and even maybe sardinia and/or the baleares) , the massilian navy was feared even in ceaser´s time until julius himself had to take out the city to protect it´s back or that navy could be used to ship the pompeyan legions back to italy or into the balkans
massilia was an independent city heavily based on comerce and with one of the strongest navies in the mediterraneum for over 500 years, their adventurers are said to have went to iceland and scandinavia on their voyages
And where did you read this?
Massilia was among the first factions we excluded.
I'm gonna have to ask for sources on all of this.
The Massiliots did not force the punics to open up anything, quite the contrary. The Punics, if anything were responsible for the progressive loss of importance on the part of the Greeks in the South and Southeast of Iberia, not to mention they were also responsible for the Greek loss of Corsica (back in 540 BC!). The Pillars were closed to any significant penetration for as long as it was closed...only with the Romans was the Punic supremacy in that part of the world, ever to be seriously challenged.
As for Massilia, during the civil war, the reason it was attacked was during Caesar's march on Hispania, they refused to open it's gates, not because they were some perceived threat to the Populares. It was however, a great port, and a useful one to keep for operations in Hispania. Their fleet at the time was a whopping 17 warships, of which only 11 were covered...and so strong it was, that they were unable to break the blockade made by just 12 ships hastily constructed on the spot with green wood and manned by inexperienced troops in naval actions, and lost more than half their number in the process (3 sunk, 6 captured).
Also, I don't get the connection between Syracuse, Massilia and Emporion that some people seem to love making. Let's come up with facts.
He seems to be basing it on the Pytheas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Circumstances_of_the_voyage) or Greeks in pre-Roman Gaul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_pre-Roman_Gaul#Settlement_at_Marseilles_.28600_BCE.29) wiki pages which have such claims in them citing this book (http://books.google.com/books?id=lbwUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q=&f=false) as a source. Not entirely convinced about it though and even if it was correct this all refers to events hundreds of years before the EB start date and isn't proof of Massalia's power in the 3rd centuty BC.
moonburn
11-28-2009, 07:21
actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
Krusader
11-28-2009, 14:48
actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
It was ONE Massilian, Pytheas. The Carthaginians could very well have allowed one Greek non-merchant ship to pass through, or they might have allowed some. People speak of the western Mediterranean Greeks as being united...they weren't.
Massilia was an important port, that was reason enough for Caesar to seize it. Perfect place to ship further troops and supplies to Iberia from. And also to receive Pompeian Legions.
Back to western Greek cities. Emporion and a few other colonies in Iberia were founded by Massilia, but they weren't united. Emporion for example didn't send any aid when Massilians were forced out of Corsica. Plus the Greeks in Iberia seems to have been hardly at war with anyone as they seem to have allied with nearby tribes. Arse for example was an Iberian oppida which incorporated a nearby Greek port.
We can't create a Western Greek Alliance faction because some people have a hard-on for it.
Create a minimod for that if people wish.
And Massylia in this case is one of two Numidian kingdoms.
Bucefalo
11-28-2009, 15:42
In this web: http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/Variants/WestGreek.html
I found this quote: The main reason for the Greek failure in the west was their refusal to form leagues or commonwealths between them and the extensive reliance on temporarily employed mercenaries.
That pretty much sums up the situation for me, more so being no evidence of any commonwealth between western greek states, unlike their eastern cousins. So from a game perspective, it makes sense to have them as rebel cities who don´ help each other.
What could be done is that while playing as a greek faction (maybe Syracuse if it is playable) you could get a mission, a request of help from a greek city, and if you help them they could join you forming a sort of commonwealth. But having something like that from the start is pretty inaccurate.
I think as long as we get certain unique units in unique settlements like Massilia and Emporion (like in EBI), then that should do really. Hopefully there will be some new factions nearby the Western Greek settlements.
moonburn
11-29-2009, 12:57
i´m aware of the situation krusader but one as the right to dream :juggle2:
as for "allowed" if the charties where so afraid of greek competition that they had to "hide" some sea routes like in that same thread then why would they allow a greek to get to know possible new trade routes unleass that greek had a roosevelt diplomatic aproach to bussiness (the 1st roosevelt president is said to have said "when negotiating make sure you have a big stick behinde your back" when adressing the creation of the panama canal ) thus maybe massilia wasn´t so "weak" at least during that time.
anway bucefalo idea seems an excellent midleground and probably allow the kh to expand properly instead of having to fight lusos when enporium rebels.
https://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5392/logosecret6gi7.jpg
I reckon that this occultus sig here is Nabatea.
As you can see that there's a clearly defined hump on the back of the thing. This says Camel to me.
I've heard that the Nabateans were renowned for their camels.
In fact, their invention of an effective saddle for a camel meant they could effectively fight from the camels back. This allowed them to become the dominant tribe in their area. I saw a picture of a coin that clearly showed a camel wearing this new saddle.
From what I hear, they were pretty influential in their day.
I saw all this in a BBC documentary about Johann Ludwig Burckhardt's rediscovery of Petra called "The Rose-red City".
But yeah, it might be a long shot, but I think the Occultus sig could be Nabatea.
Hi Iain! Welcome!
Thankyou for the short insight into the history of camel warfare but I doubt it could be Nabatea, the Nabateans just wern't expansive enough to qualify as a faction.
Hang on a minute though, when on earth did the Bosporan Greeks expand?
Hi Iain! Welcome!
Thankyou for the short insight into the history of camel warfare but I doubt it could be Nabatea, the Nabateans just wern't expansive enough to qualify as a faction.
Hang on a minute though, when on earth did the Bosporan Greeks expand?
That's the thing, I'm pretty sure that the team has run out of expansionist factions to add to the game, so I'd think it would be necessary to add in other factions that historically weren't very expansionistic, though perhaps could have been if they had been differently inclined.
I can see Nabatea being kind of similar to Saba, but with more Hellenistic influences.
Hannibal Khan the Great
06-06-2010, 23:50
It was Aretas III that really started to Hellenize Nabatea though. Maybe material for reforms?
A reform like that would be great.
This faction would work quite well I think.
As an added bonus, it might serve to stop either of the Ptolemys or Seleukids from getting to big and steamrolling everything.
FIghting from camelback goes back to long before anyone hear about the Nabataeans. The qedar and the people of tayma were recorded doing so. Herodotus talks about a nomadic people called the debae who 'lived and fought on camelback'. Indeed these people didn't use advanced sadals, however wether the nabataeans were the first to invent them later, I'm not sure. I'd love to see that coin, as camelriders are planned as a regional unit.
The Nabataeans and most northern and eastern Arabians hellenized very much and some also became very influenced by the parthians and later the sassanids. The Nabataeans were perhaps the ones most influenced by the Hellenes, especially after the capture of Damascus in 86 BC (IIRC). Greek became a frequent languages and is attested to have been used in the organisation of the late armies, together with an adoption of organisation and equipment (as pre-Roman freezes depicting clear hellenic styled but distinctly nabataean soldiers/armour/equipment). At this time they ruled a pretty large Area, from Dedan to Damascus and most of the Sinai, so they were expansive enough if you ask me. However our information on them in the early period is rather lacking, just as their justification. In a 1st Century BC mod, they'd make a fine addition, but not one who is based mostly on the two centuries we almost hear nothing about them.
That being said, it is no camel you see. Nor would a camel be a good symbol for them, as it would be more appropriate for the people more to the south, around between modernday Medina to around and especially Najran, where the camel was the symbol of the main deity of the 'Amar and similar tribes. I can't really think of a specific Nabataean symbol though, the ptolemaic eagle was popular but is already taken, other animals like the snake, scorpion or lion would make decent shield decorations but would not be applicable for them either.
I'll give you a hint though: geographically speaking you're way of.
Ah, that's fair enough then. I guess not then. Thanks for all that information about the Nabataeans, I didn't know any of that.
And if I find the picture of the coin, I'll show it to you.
Andronikos
06-07-2010, 13:50
It looks a little like a griffin, the "hump" being its wings, which would suggest nomads or something eastern, but this isn't my guess. I believe, it is some stylized animal and moreover it looks western to me, so perhaps Celtiberians.
Khazar_Dahvos
06-08-2010, 00:44
i am pretty sure that is a bull being depicted
Hannibal Khan the Great
06-08-2010, 03:18
I'm praying for a second Germanic faction, but sadly that doesn't look too likely at the moment....
I still think its an elephant-mounted FM for a semi-Hellenic Mauryan satrap.
It's actually a dragon.
Really?
Like a draco? Like another Balkan-ish faction with falxes? Like Bastarnae?
Or maybe its the Chi'in/Han Empires j/k
Apázlinemjó
06-08-2010, 10:14
That symbol is a naked woman, will we have the lesbians of Lesbos? I wonder how would look like an all female phalanx...
Dutchhoplite
06-08-2010, 18:49
I bet you wish for a skimpily armoured phalanx...You dirty, dirty man.....
Hehehe, i would play them all the time :D
No.
Hmmph. Well I think it is, so there.
It's actually a dragon.
No.
can you make up your mind? :clown:
honestly, though, I've kinda given up trying to figure this our for myself. I am however starting to lean towards the idea that it might be a griffin or dragon, as cyclops says.
machinor
06-09-2010, 22:00
OMFG!!! It's AN ELEPHANT!!! Seriously! Look at it! The left part of the symbol is the profile of an elephant head (right behind the "OC" of "Occultus" - looking leftwards)!!
Elephants!! Which means either an African faction ... OR AN INDIAN ONE! I found these examples of Indo-Greek coins/Indian coins showing Greek influence:
http://faz-community.faz.net/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/antike/Zeus_2D00_Elef.jpg
http://faz-community.faz.net/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/antike/Elef_2D00_quadriga.jpg
The latter one showing Antiochos.
This could mean the occultus faction is a Mauryan satrapy or something similar.
OMFG!!! It's AN ELEPHANT!!!...AN INDIAN ONE!...the occultus faction is a Mauryan satrapy or something similar.
I want to believe you, but I've been hurt before. There was this guy and he was fuill of sweet talk about a dragon...well lets just say it didn't end well.
Also there's a small difficulty about culture slots.
But if its true...no I can't let myself fall for that again.
Your right, it does look like an elephant. But unfortunately it is not. That bit of the symbol isn't even a head. Hell, we don't even know if that symbol even has a head. Yes, that's right, the symbol is that of Cthulhu. How could it not be?
Foot
machinor
06-09-2010, 23:00
Your right, it does look like an elephant. But unfortunately it is not. That bit of the symbol isn't even a head. Hell, we don't even know if that symbol even has a head. Yes, that's right, the symbol is that of Cthulhu. How could it not be?
An Atlantean faction?! AWESOME!!
On second thought... I'd say it's definately an indian elephant judging by the size of its ears.
An Atlantean faction?! AWESOME!!....
Atlantean? Are you dreaming? Cthulhu is Dagonic culture, and sure R'lyeh was a dominant faction before the arrival of the Mi Go, thats a little bit before the EB period.
Now an Old One faction based in Antarctica, with giant penguin militia, cata-shoggoths and lorica squamata would balance the lack of southern hemisphere factions. If I was a noob I could start a thread demanding WHEN WILL EB2 BE READY AND WILL THERE BE ONE OR SEVERAL SHOGGOTH UNITS AVAILABLE?
...On second thought... I'd say it's definately an indian elephant judging by the size of its ears.
Stop playing with my emotions.
Hey they're not seriously denying it, just diverting us with Lovecraft references...maybe there's something in this? Or will there really be AOR Fungi from Yuggoth and Deep Ones?
MButcher
06-10-2010, 04:38
i am pretty sure that is a bull being depicted
I agree. There's an unshakeable aura of "bullness" about it, particularly an Indian bull because of the large hump.
http://www.stevealbum.com/lotphotos/main/816184.jpg http://www.indiancoins.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/image2.png
That was my guess too, either a bull or an ox. Also to me the styling looks sort of celtic or scythian-ish, but it's too obscured to tell for sure.
Perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way. So far most people have assumed that the symbol is facing left. IMHO we should look at it as if it were facing right. From the right it looks to me like an elk or bison. Although it could just as easily be an indian creature the culture slots make this impossible. Therefore I think we are dealing with a western, temperate faction.
If this is the case looking on coins for the answer will not help, I am studying Celtic coins at the moment and can tell you the only animals depicted are horses whilst no Germanic group were minting coins at this time.
Phalanx300
06-10-2010, 10:47
Seems like best bets are either Indian or CeltIberian.
Seeing foot denying Indian with some humour may actually mean its an Indian one. Would be great if so!
Seems like best bets are either Indian or CeltIberian.
Seeing foot denying Indian with some humour may actually mean its an Indian one. Would be great if so!
But if that's the case what do you do about the lack of culture slots? Plus an Indian faction wouldn't be represented on the map fairly, unless the EBII map has been dramatically extended.
Andronikos
06-10-2010, 12:49
Faction with Indian touch which wouldn't need new culture slot can be Kamboja kingdom, but there are problems with it being on the map border.
anubis88
06-10-2010, 14:20
Kamboja Kingdom in 272 BC?
Atlantean? Are you dreaming? Cthulhu is Dagonic culture,
Cthulu is Dagonic?
Don't they teach you kids the Necronomicon in school any more?
Cthulu is r'lyehic. Or maybe Vhoorlian.
On topic though, I think it kind of looks like a lion, with the head being at the far right of the picture.
WinsingtonIII
06-10-2010, 20:10
Perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way. So far most people have assumed that the symbol is facing left. IMHO we should look at it as if it were facing right. From the right it looks to me like an elk or bison.
My assumption was always that it was facing right, I didn't realize most people were looking at it as if it were facing left; that could certainly explain why I was not seeing some of the things people were suggesting.
I used to think it was a bull, but now I'm not so sure. If it is a bull, the hump is very large and stylized (which, of course, it very well could be). I think the hump may well be wings as some were suggesting, which suggests a griffin, dragon, or other legendary beast.
MButcher
06-10-2010, 22:26
It may be my imagination, but I see hooves on the bottom.
Cthulu is Dagonic?...
Well his name for it is unpronouncable...
...Don't they teach you kids the Necronomicon in school any more?...
Sblood, thou stinkard, I'll learn ye how to gust! Wolde ye swynke me thilke wys?
...Cthulu is r'lyehic. Or maybe Vhoorlian...
puh-leeeese. Justy because a nameless entity is born in a stable doesn't make it a horse. R'lyeh is just the city where dead Cthulhu lies dreaming.
Vhoorl, well you certainly have me there, wiki mentions a reference to it in Whisperer in Darkness: i had not registered that is was a HP reference. I guess "Nameless-gulfs-beyond Time-and-Space-ian" would break the culture limit.
I equated him with the children of Dagon because of the shared motif of Pacific sea-floor buildings occasionally surfacing (Dagon and Call of Cthulhu both feature this). Also Dagonic is pretty mucht he same as Punic so it'd fit.
...On topic though, I think it kind of looks like a lion, with the head being at the far right of the picture.
Maybe there's been a lurch back in favour of Cyrenaica? Or a second Numidian area faction? Oooh, African complexity!
http://www.shalincraft-india.com/images/sculpture/image/large/nandib001.jpg
All the talk about an animal facing right, then bulls, then bulls w/humps (Indian bulls, brahman bull, etc) led me on a google image search to the above. Search for "nandi" and you can see a lot more. Nothing exact, but there is a resemblance...
I don't remember how I got there (searching for bull coins I think) I came upon something of an Indo-Scythian empire that existed in EB's timeframe. Not that I follow much of the technical info regarding culture slots and whatnot, but if there isn't one available for an Indian faction, would the Scythian/Saka aspect allow these guys to fit - that is if they meet all the other requrements of an EB faction?
Hannibal Khan the Great
06-11-2010, 05:38
The Indo-Scythians are represented in EB by the Saka Rauka taking over Baktria and India, along with the resulting reforms.
stratigos vasilios
06-11-2010, 07:39
Hmmm to me it kind of looks like a cat? I tried to throw it in paint, inverse colours and follow along with the pencil... and while I was playing connect the dots I think I drew a cat... and a cat, to me, indicates an Egyptian region faction? Any chance it could be a faction nearby/underneath the Ptolmey? (btw apologies if this idea has already surfaced, I am struggling for time and failed to read earlier pages).
anubis88
06-11-2010, 08:27
Hmmm to me it kind of looks like a cat? I tried to throw it in paint, inverse colours and follow along with the pencil... and while I was playing connect the dots I think I drew a cat... and a cat, to me, indicates an Egyptian region faction? Any chance it could be a faction nearby/underneath the Ptolmey? (btw apologies if this idea has already surfaced, I am struggling for time and failed to read earlier pages).
Unfortunatly Axum/Meroe (south of Egypt) will not be in the mod IIRC...
Hi.
I have been following this forum for quite a long time now, but I haven't registred until recently.
I'm wondering about the small detail between the letters "T" and "U".
Can it be a part of the symbol itself, like a tooth or an arrowhead? Or is it a mountain/peak in the background?
If it is a tooth, we know more clearely that the symbol shows a predator or some mythological creature. If it a mountain however. Now that might give a geographical clue.
What do you think?
Phalanx300
06-11-2010, 11:38
The extreme right part definately looks like an mouth, and seeing all the other lines howing muscle etc its definately an animal as well.
stratigos vasilios
06-11-2010, 14:38
Unfortunatly Axum/Meroe (south of Egypt) will not be in the mod IIRC...
What about west of Egypt? :P
Hmm but I think I read somewhere Kyrene was ruled out as a faction? I can imagine the EB members having a jolly good laugh at this thread, "they guessed that? suckers..." hehehe
Tellos Athenaios
06-11-2010, 15:22
I certainly do find it an entertaining read. It's amazing what potential for creativity and resourcefulness you can unlock by not telling people. We should do this more often. Perhaps even make entire previews occultus like this. Just imagine. :grin:
Unintended BM
06-11-2010, 16:50
I see a lion.
Macilrille
06-18-2010, 22:10
LOL Brennus :D Dat was funny, a balloon for your quick wit ;-) :balloon2:
Fun to watch the guesstimates here, they do wander a bit.
You getting closer?
Or further away?
I cannot say,
for the trail of logic looses me ;-)
/Me is happy to work for good and patient fans :gbow::thinking::lipsrsealed::smug2::pleased::pleased::lipsrsealed2::nice::angel::builder:
Thanks Macilrille! I will add it to Archippos balloon when I have figured out how to do so.
This faction looks like it could be a real gem of a surprise. The way I see it EBII is turning out to be a great feast, and if a feast is gonna be good you want all the food served at the right time and properly cooked, rushing it is just gonna spoil the meals and too many snacks too quickly beforehand is just gonna ruin your appetite.
oudysseos
06-23-2010, 17:26
My favourite guess so far is the Cthulhu faction. That would be epic.
Actually, why not a Cthulhu story set in Ancient Greece? 'A Shadow over Ithika'? Odysseus versus Nyarlathotep?
My favourite guess so far is the Cthulhu faction. That would be epic.
Actually, why not a Cthulhu story set in Ancient Greece? 'A Shadow over Ithika'? Odysseus versus Nyarlathotep?
I can see that:
faction leader: cthulhu
faction heir: ph'taang
head general: none, but Nyarlathotep and the necranomicon ex mortis stand out as important generals. one iirc can send you to the blagole, just like he gatekeeper can.
main unit: candarian demons?
political situation: facing a rebellion led by Ash Williams, of Dearborn, Michigan (worst state ever:clown:):clown:
as you might have guessed, I'm pulling all that from the nether-regions of me lab-coat :clown:
I abuse clowns for teh lulz!
I can see that:
faction leader: cthulhu
faction heir: ph'taang
head general: none, but Nyarlathotep and the necranomicon ex mortis stand out as important generals. one iirc can send you to the blagole, just like he gatekeeper can.
main unit: candarian demons?
political situation: facing a rebellion led by Ash Williams, of Dearborn, Michigan (worst state ever:clown:):clown:
as you might have guessed, I'm pulling all that from the nether-regions of me lab-coat :clown:
I abuse clowns for teh lulz!
...so you're from Michigan (Dearborn) eh?
...so you're from Michigan (Dearborn) eh?
nope. Ash Williams is though, and my mom would kill me if I mentioned Michigan well in public. (she's from Ohio).
besides, the clown smiley should tell ye what I really think.
nope. Ash Williams is though, and my mom would kill me if I mentioned Michigan well in public. (she's from Ohio).
besides, the clown smiley should tell ye what I really think.
heh, well as a resident I can tell you that a lot of other residents hate Michigan (unemployment rates I suppose, and those who can't take awesome weather), and Dearborn isn't exactly a wonderful town haha... Oh and heh, most Michiganians also return the feeling when it comes to Ohions.
My favourite guess so far is the Cthulhu faction. That would be epic.
Actually, why not a Cthulhu story set in Ancient Greece? 'A Shadow over Ithika'? Odysseus versus Nyarlathotep?
I wish i read that book, i would know a lot more of whatcha talking about
I can see that:
faction leader: cthulhu
faction heir: ph'taang
head general: none, but Nyarlathotep and the necranomicon ex mortis stand out as important generals. one iirc can send you to the blagole, just like he gatekeeper can.
main unit: candarian demons?
political situation: facing a rebellion led by Ash Williams, of Dearborn, Michigan (worst state ever:clown:):clown:
as you might have guessed, I'm pulling all that from the nether-regions of me lab-coat :clown:
I abuse clowns for teh lulz!
This is not 4Chan, sure looks like it... but no:shame:
~Jirisys (Besides, it:s i'd for the lulz:clown::bear:)
I wish i read that book, i would know a lot more of whatcha talking about
Cthulhu is a creation of Lovecraft, the famous author of many a horror story.
Wiki page about Cthulhu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu).
I like how everyone has pretty much given up trying to guess this faction, I don't blame us.
Apázlinemjó
06-25-2010, 09:42
I like how everyone has pretty much given up trying to guess this faction, I don't blame us.
Because there won't be an orcish faction, we are sad.
anubis88
06-25-2010, 09:50
I like how everyone has pretty much given up trying to guess this faction, I don't blame us.
Yeah this topic has gone waaaaaaaaaaay off topic...
Phalanx300
06-25-2010, 11:23
Well its very possible some of us had it right but when we can't provide proof like pictures its useless....
Is there any chance of a member of the EBII team giving us a clue (not so much as to reveal the identity of the faction but just enough to keep this thread alive). Something like "This faction is European" or "This faction had access to the Mediterranean" perhaps?
Is there any chance of a member of the EBII team giving us a clue (not so much as to reveal the identity of the faction but just enough to keep this thread alive). Something like "This faction is European" or "This faction had access to the Mediterranean" perhaps?
This faction is from the Universe:clown:
~Jirisys (that oughta' close the pickings)
This faction is from the Universe:clown:
~Jirisys (that oughta' close the pickings)
Ok, well that rules out Species 8472, Apázlinemjó.
stratigos vasilios
06-26-2010, 03:57
Whoever makes those Occultus sigs has done an excellent job... a frustratingly excellent job... I mean a really annoyling, frustrating, keeping-me-up-at-night job...
oudysseos
06-26-2010, 04:31
But not impossible: one has been guessed, right?
But not impossible: one has been guessed, right?
Aaaargh, lol. All I know is that when this faction is previewed alot of us are going to sit there and go "Oh yeah..... now I get it".
athanaric
06-26-2010, 14:29
Ok, well that rules out Species 8472, Apázlinemjó.
Or Romans from a parallel universe. Damn...
Apázlinemjó
06-26-2010, 16:11
Ok, well that rules out Species 8472, Apázlinemjó.
Yeah, and it shuts the whole Star Wars universe out too. Damn, I'm very sad now.
I always wanted a Jedi Hetairoi unit. :(
Yeah, and it shuts the whole Star Wars universe out too. Damn, I'm very sad now.
I always wanted a Jedi Hetairoi unit. :(
I think you still could, Star Wars happened in another galaxy not another universe.
Anyway (before Ludens shuts us down for this interstellar discussion) here are my final guesses in order of likelyhood (IMO):
The Cherusci
The Marcomanni
The Bastarnae
The Arevaci
The Insubres
Brave Brave Sir Robin
06-26-2010, 18:40
For this particular one I beilieve Arevaci.
What about the other Occultus sig with the trees in it? I was thinking Cherusci for that one.
anubis88
06-26-2010, 19:08
there's another occultus sign? where is it? I mean which team member has it?
Apázlinemjó
06-26-2010, 19:20
I think you still could, Star Wars happened in another galaxy not another universe.
Anyway (before Ludens shuts us down for this interstellar discussion) here are my final guesses in order of likelyhood (IMO):
The Cherusci
The Marcomanni
The Bastarnae
The Arevaci
The Insubres
Yeah but let's not forget the other side of the famous phrase, in a long time ago... :( :p
Anyway, I support the Arevaci idea too.
And I still hope for another German faction, although Ancient Germania is hard to research and probably my hope won't have it's fruit.
Yeah but let's not forget the other side of the famous phrase, in a long time ago... :( :p
Anyway, I support the Arevaci idea too.
And I still hope for another German faction, although Ancient Germania is hard to research and probably my hope won't have it's fruit.
I agree, it is difficult to research pre-principate era Germans but like you I would like to see a German faction. I think the Sweboz power does need to be checked.
Likewise the same case could be made for the Arevaci, the centre of Iberia is very empty.
My guesses are:
The Arevaci or a sort of celtiberian alliance with them and the Vaccaei: perfect choice to depict the celtic population in Iberia, and also as it been mentioned there's a vacuum in Hispania...
An illyrian tribe, maybe the Dalmatae: an interesting faction with a new "barbarian" culture to explore.
A second german faction: it's hard here to choose, I would say the Bastarnae, for their position and cultures' mixture...
Atropatene: more persians to claim the King of Kings' seat ^^
Syrakousai: the greek point of view from a colony XD
I'd really like to see the Belgae, but two regions are not enough, maybe the northern baltic regions could be turn into Eremos, so Belgica may be created ^^
One thing I have no clue about how to do it is to make the Pritanoi more involved with the continent's affairs, hopefully M2TW 1.5 AI will amaze us...
I'd really like to see the Belgae, but two regions are not enough, maybe the northern baltic regions could be turn into Eremos, so Belgica may be created ^^
One thing I have no clue about how to do it is to make the Pritanoi more involved with the continent's affairs, hopefully M2TW 1.5 AI will amaze us...
Let us remember thought that until c.150BC the area the Pritanoi inhabitted appears to have very little contact with the continent. It was only with the Belgic influence beginning in c.150BC that the south east of Britain became involved once more on continental affairs. Its possible that if a Belgic faction were included something could be scripted, either a Belgic invasion of Britain or a request by the Belgic faction for assistance from the Britons.
Let's hope even keeping some sort of atlantic trade routes would be a great achievement XD
What's the chances of seeing the other Occultus symbols (if they do exist and the legends are true)?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
06-30-2010, 03:38
Yeah here is the other one. Its been around longer than the one we are currently trying to guess but everyone seems to have lost interest in it. Perhaps because all you can make out are what I believe to be trees.
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9154/logosecret7.jpg
I thought that was the Boii one.
In case it's not... There is an old man's face above the first "C" and the left appears to be occupied by a grayish building or buildings. I'm less certain about the presence of a strange face by the "U" and what may be leaves and sky in the upper right.
anubis88
06-30-2010, 14:57
make out are what I believe to be trees.
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9154/logosecret7.jpg
Ewoks? :S
Apázlinemjó
06-30-2010, 15:13
Ewoks? :S
Or Wood elves!
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9154/logosecret7.jpg
Lmao, I don't think we have a chance with this one!
WinsingtonIII
07-02-2010, 06:07
I'm not surprised people lost interest in that one, you can't see anything except blurry green things
Based on the font style I would say it's definately a Germanic faction.
i can see a few things...
i can see a few things...
Such as....
Tellos Athenaios
07-03-2010, 17:04
A dark blur?
fightermedic
07-03-2010, 17:47
My guesses are:
The Arevaci or a sort of celtiberian alliance with them and the Vaccaei: perfect choice to depict the celtic population in Iberia, and also as it been mentioned there's a vacuum in Hispania...
An illyrian tribe, maybe the Dalmatae: an interesting faction with a new "barbarian" culture to explore.
A second german faction: it's hard here to choose, I would say the Bastarnae, for their position and cultures' mixture...
Atropatene: more persians to claim the King of Kings' seat ^^
Syrakousai: the greek point of view from a colony XD
I'd really like to see the Belgae, but two regions are not enough, maybe the northern baltic regions could be turn into Eremos, so Belgica may be created ^^
One thing I have no clue about how to do it is to make the Pritanoi more involved with the continent's affairs, hopefully M2TW 1.5 AI will amaze us...
while i still think the belgea would be a good choice to counter the pritanoi i guess m2tw will not fail in this direction anyway
playing stainles steel 6.2 rc/rr i am constantly! beeing invaded as lithunia by denmark!
and had been as france by ireland back in 6.1
so never loose hope :D
while i still think the belgea would be a good choice to counter the pritanoi i guess m2tw will not fail in this direction anyway
playing stainles steel 6.2 rc/rr i am constantly! beeing invaded as lithunia by denmark!
and had been as france by ireland back in 6.1
so never loose hope :D
With regards to the Belgae the problem isn't the game mechanics of naval invasions the problem is a lack of archaeological information surrounding the Belgae during Early La Tene III.
fightermedic
07-03-2010, 20:30
yes i'm fully aware of that
but i still think their implementation would benefit the game gamplay wise
the naval invasion thing was ment as a seperate answer though
but still this is the area on the map where working naval invasions are most important don't you agree?
tried to lighten this one up a bit
didn't help at all
https://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9154/logosecret7.jpg
yes i'm fully aware of that
but i still think their implementation would benefit the game gamplay wise
the naval invasion thing was ment as a seperate answer though
but still this is the area on the map where working naval invasions are most important don't you agree?
https://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9154/logosecret7.jpg
Yes without a doubt the English channel is one of the areas on the map where working naval invasions are of key importance (the other would be the central Mediterranean between Italy and North Africa). And yes the inclusion of the Belgae would certainly make the game more enjoyable as well as balance out the politics of Northern Gaul. However the point remains that without sufficient archaeological data, to model units and structures on, and without sufficient historical data, to inform us about the political and social makeup of Belgica, at this time then the Belgae will not be included. The same reason why there will not be a Goidelic, second British, Baltic, Nordic or Uralic faction.
Ha! you'll never guess the newest of the Occultus' (TM) signature banners!
http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/8/7/6/moros/f_t9m_a9e5775.jpg
All logos, names are trade marks of the Occultus' company. Imagery and other content are copyrighted (2010).
Tellos Athenaios
07-07-2010, 03:26
Damn it, Moros! Now everyone will be able to guess the unique unit, and cultural soundtrack!
Ha! you'll never guess the newest of the Occultus' (TM) signature banners!
http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/8/7/6/moros/f_t9m_a9e5775.jpg...
Can't fool me, thats Vanilla Scipii. Julii, SPQR, Egypt and Brutii FMs.
well played Cyclops, well played.
stratigos vasilios
09-01-2010, 16:52
Quick question, I'm not sure if it has already been suggested.
Moros's sig, is it the Hadhramaut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadhramaut) kingdom/faction?
Now I know wiki is not a decent source to back up this suggestion (at which I'm inviting anyone who can assist this claim), and I think the sig has a lion in it, but has anyone suggested it's a griffin?
You got me!
No seriously just naming random peoples from the time frame is going to work...
at this point of time I've actually lost all hope of deciphering moros's sig, do you have a pic of the lion/griphin featured in the sig ? the wikipedia picture is not really conclusive ;)
if correct, we know a faction, and you're a Hero,
If incorrect, you've founded a new consiracy theory, which may not be quite as good but great fun for the EB team and me cause I like reading conspiracy theories and knowing they are wrong :D
No seriously just naming random peoples from the time frame is going to work...
cool :clown:
gamegeek2
09-01-2010, 20:17
Naming random factions will find out the name. Now, which ones they are, is a totally different question...
When the Occultus factions are revealed lots of people are going to do the raised eyebrows expression and utter the phrase "Ahh, I see" either that or lots of people are gonna go "WTH?! How were we supposed to get that?"
anubis88
09-01-2010, 21:42
When the Occultus factions are revealed lots of people are going to do the raised eyebrows expression and utter the phrase "Ahh, I see" either that or lots of people are gonna go "WTH?! How were we supposed to get that?"
But most will say : I knew it! I just didn't want to say it for sure :D
But most will say : I knew it! I just didn't want to say it for sure :D
Ah yes, that ubiquitous modesty which pervades the EB forum, lol.
"WTH?! How were we supposed to get that?"
Probably this reaction I fear.
It sure looks like a hump-backed lion to me. I don't think there's anything particularly Celtic about it. But when I focus specifically on the left-most portion of it, I can very easily imagine the head of either a canine-type animal or some horned mammal with big floppy ears... Like a gazelle with its ears turned down. If it were a gazelle, that would mean an Asian or African faction. But it seems that a Nubian or Ethiopian faction is out of the question, and I highly highly doubt they put another southern Arabian faction in. The most logical explanation: it's not a gazelle.
anubis88
09-02-2010, 08:52
I think it's a symbol that 99% of use haven't seen before.
athanaric
09-02-2010, 23:57
I think it's a symbol that 99% of use haven't seen before.
And I suppose you're that 1% that has seen the symbol. What did you have to pay the team? Did you have to prescribe your soul to bobbin?
anubis88
09-03-2010, 09:57
And I suppose you're that 1% that has seen the symbol. What did you have to pay the team? Did you have to prescribe your soul to bobbin?
Haha... No. I have no idea what it is. And i doubt anyone can say what that blur realy is. But people keep guessing, even tough i think it's impossible to know what it would be. One would have had to seen the exact same symbol many times (color, size) imo in order to put the pieces together.
But i guess one occultus faction must be in Arabia, since both gg2 and Moros used an occultus sig iirc
Tudhaliya
09-03-2010, 10:08
If you look really closely at GG2's sig, right at the bottom border underneath the letters of OCCULTUS, you'll see that the background was originally red. The green and grey was added on top of the red. So we have a stylized gold something on a red background, maybe a Skythian gold animal figure. Do the Saka count as an occultus faction?
Occultus sigs are only for unrevealed factions.
ps the backgroud is definitely green, not red.
anubis88
09-03-2010, 11:07
Altough now that i look at it, it could definetly be an animal; the bottom above the "o", the head above the "s", the leg a between the "t" and "u", and the hump in the middle, could it be wings? Just tell me if i'm close at all :shame:
It is a animal. Thats all I'll say.
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
09-03-2010, 20:56
It is a animal. Thats all I'll say.
The more I look at it, the more animals I see....Jeeez, I even saw a snail at one point...I'm gonna lay off the wine for the rest of the night. So, here's my guess....it's a walrus and you're going to surprise us with an hitherto unknown 'eskimo' faction :inquisitive::dizzy2:
Megas Methuselah
09-03-2010, 21:37
Jeeez, I even saw a snail at one point...I'm gonna lay off the wine for the rest of the night.
Lol. But yeaaaah, you better lay off the wine. Many people consider "Eskimo" to be a derogatory term...
Many people consider "Eskimo" to be a derogatory term...
Seriously?? I had no idea. Wow. I'm pretty sure that's about the only way I ever heard Inuits referred to when I was in school not too many years ago. Of course we didn't have many (or any) Inuits where I grew up, so I don't guess anyone had any reason to know better.
athanaric
09-03-2010, 23:57
Many people consider "Eskimo" to be a derogatory term...
Ya, better call them by a name that means "humans". Cuz everyone else isn't...
Megas Methuselah
09-04-2010, 03:15
In Alaska, they use the term without complaint from either party. But in Canada, we refer to the northern Aboriginal brothers as Inuits. Glorious people, I like their throat singing, it sounds awesome.
Anyways, moving on... I think Gracchus is (was?) drunk, because I cannot see a walrus at all, whatsoever.
stratigos vasilios
09-04-2010, 04:08
Can anyone see in the middle of the sign, an outline of a cirle? It's green, is that be the factions symbol?
...Or do I want it to be the symbol so much I've convinced myself that it is but in reality it's absolutely nothing? Wow the EB team is really inside my head now...
Hotseat_User
09-04-2010, 12:47
what I'm wondering about: I remeber that bobbin's sig used to be just black. Now it's lighter in the middle and there are two columns or smth. in the middle. :inquisitive:
But maybe you've just discovered - I'd lose track on this tread and only read the last two pages. :juggle2:
I think you're getting a bit paranoid or you haven't been sleeping enough. Or someone has been messing with your graphic settings or your screen's settings. Bobbin's sig hasn't changed as far as I know. It's not an occultus sig.
stratigos vasilios
09-04-2010, 16:52
what I'm wondering about: I remeber that bobbin's sig used to be just black. Now it's lighter in the middle and there are two columns or smth. in the middle. :inquisitive:
Good to see the EB team is in someone elses head too.
But what about the other Occultus sig? Nobody seems to have been discussing that one. Now I agree you can see even less in it but the font in which Occultus is written seems to suggest to me a Germanic or at least Temperate European faction, thoughts everyone?
what I'm wondering about: I remeber that bobbin's sig used to be just black. Now it's lighter in the middle and there are two columns or smth. in the middle. :inquisitive:
But maybe you've just discovered - I'd lose track on this tread and only read the last two pages. :juggle2:
The occultus sigs are supposed to get lighter and more revelealed as the faction gets closer to being announced.
Horatius Flaccus
09-05-2010, 11:14
You're sure?
And Bobbin never had an Occultus sig, like Moros already said.
athanaric
09-05-2010, 11:26
I say Moros' sig is a somewhat deformed dromedary on green. I just can't think of any other mammal with such an outline. You may also notice the rabbit-like nose and some kind of a mane on its neck. The head is also too far tilted back for a (weird) lion or smething in that direction.
anubis88
09-05-2010, 11:57
I don't actually think that's a real animal. I think it's a mythological.
stratigos vasilios
09-05-2010, 13:13
I don't actually think that's a real animal. I think it's a mythological.
I think it's Moros crawling on all fours. I'm guessing it's something he would do?
Tudhaliya
09-05-2010, 19:02
I say Moros' sig is a somewhat deformed dromedary on green. I just can't think of any other mammal with such an outline. You may also notice the rabbit-like nose and some kind of a mane on its neck. The head is also too far tilted back for a (weird) lion or smething in that direction.
It could also be two animals. LIke a lion biting a deer. The "hump" would be arch of the lion's neck.
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
09-05-2010, 19:14
I keep wondering whether that 'hump' isn't an eye.... if it were then it might be of a germanic dragon/serpent like creature atop a carynx-like sculpture that I remember seeing. Course, I could be completely wrong.
Sometimes I can see it, and then I think..nahh. Be damned if I can't remember where I saw that image!!
You're sure?
And Bobbin never had an Occultus sig, like Moros already said.
Mmm not exactly but I think I remember reading that somewhere a while back...
Yea I know I was talking about the Occultus sigs in general since everyone else had already pointed out that Bobbin doesn't have an Occultus sig.
Just to make clear, I never had an occultus sig, I've had this one since I became a team member.
Also the occultus sigs usually stay the same and don't lighten as a release approaches. Although there were two versions of the Bosporan sig made, which helped me to guess what it was back at the start of this thread (I wasn't part of the team then).
I'm sorry but I keep on checking every new post on this thread because I lack the learning/intelligence to figure out what an occultus sig is meant to be and I have come to the conclusion that neither does any one else on this forum.
The team are taking the chronic p*ss and I suggest that everyone just stop guessing and giving them the satisfaction! Leave them a few months and they could drop another clue just to torment everyone once their fun has dried up.
If they weren't making such a cracking mod i'd........ well I'd be jolly annoyed with them.
XSamatan
09-06-2010, 22:28
figure out what an occultus sig is meant to be and I have come to the conclusion that neither does any one else on this forum.
well....you could take a look at the signature of Moros, he posted i.e. on the previous page, that.
The image below, that says Occultus, is one:
He's saying he doesn't know what the occultus sigs are of, not what they are.
Yes, sorry. I meant no one will figure out what they are of.
One of them is the Belgae, that's all I am wishing for!
Is it true that the occultus sigs become increasingly discernable the closer to release date or is this just a paranoid rumour people have developed?
I would suggest you look at the font the word "occultus" is written in and compare it with the existing EBII and EB factions, similarities may reveal the ethnic or geogrpahical location of the factions.
The sigs remain just as they are, but yes I believe that the writing style is related to the culture...
The green one is definitely celtic (I hope ^^)
stratigos vasilios
09-09-2010, 03:50
How many sigs are yet to be revealed? Who has them? I know Moros, Hax and gamegeek2 are sporting the same one.
EDIT: I mean sigs as in sigs, not factions. I figured any new faction that has been discussed internally and confirmed would have an occultus sig made for it but any faction still up in the air wouldn't. Well that's my logic.
Andy1984
09-14-2010, 13:15
It seems likely to me that both occultus slots are Baltic/Syracuse.
On the blue occultus sig: I assume we should look towards the Baltic for a second Germanic or a Slavic faction: perhaps the Gutar culture. Belgian tribes have been guessed quite extensively, and it seems most guesses were wrong. Maybe the Belgians will only be represented by units. A Baltic culture is - unlike the Chatti or Belgian tribes - not situated in an overpopulated area. In EB1, there were already several 'Baltic' units, just as there were Belgian units, which suggests this culture would be sufficiently different from the Sueboz and the Sarmatians. Their 'otherness' is also stipulated by Tacitus, both in weaponry and style of fighting as in the Sitones's custom to be ruled by women. This to me makes them a viable playing faction in EB2. I can only hope my reasoning resembles somehow the one of the team. Even more: the blue font of the occultus logo strongly resembles a runic alphabet (i.e. Germanic/Baltic, rather than Belgian, British or even Syracusian). Syracuse would almost certainly have a more 'Greek' font. The blue color of the letters 'europa barbarorum' would suit a trading- or seafaring nation, which fits both North-West Norse and Gutar. The signature looks vague to me, which might fit a misty/forest-background: lakes, flowers, mist and the colourful reflecting of sunlight on green leaves. Between the 'u' and the 'm' of 'barbarorum' you can spot several vertical lines. To me, these look like trees. Around the word 'occultus' there seems to be something in a much brighter spot than the surrounding forest: perhaps lilies on a lake? (Lithuanian culture seems to have had lilies in their mythology) Perhaps some different waterplant? A lake/waterplant seems reasonable as a logo to me, as it could have been the object of a pagan cult. Even a 'lady in the lake' is not entirely impossible if the logo would be that of the Sitones or a comparable tribe. On top of the first 'c' of 'occultus' there seems to be the silhuoette of a moon behind a tree. We're definitly looking for a tribe that feels comfortable in the shades of a forest, that is not scared by water and that might have a lake-, moon-cult or fertility-cult. According to Tacitus, fertility-godess Nerthuz was honoured in a lake. Lithuanian tribes, Gotland, Denmark and South-Norwegian/South-Swedish tribes all fit these. Of these tribes, the Varini, the Cimbri and the Gothones were undoubtly sufficiently agressive to play a significant role in EB, while the Sitones might be the matriarchal faction that would give EB just that final touch.
Tacitus describes several of these Baltic tribes, including Suiones and Sitones. (Granted, some websites equal the Suebi and the Suiones, some don't.) The Rugians and the Lemovians (other Baltic tribes) are given round shields and short swords by Tacitus, while the ships of the Suiones are described as having two prows. At least that's something to accompany the archeological finds. Tacitus mentions the Varini as a small but brave tribe, worshipping Mother Earth (Herthum/Nerthuz), while located within forests and in between rivers. We also have distinctive Danish Lurs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur), one of them found in Latvia. Ptolemy describes at least the Gutar culture. Strabo describes the Cimbrians and Thule (sometimes equated with Norway/Scandinavia). And last but not least: let's not forget the team has at least one Norwegian and one Danish member. They might just as well be able to deliver the necessary information on such a Baltic tribe. All in all: there seem to be at least some historical and archeological information on these Scandinavian and Baltic tribes to plea for such a faction.
On Moros' occultus sig: Maybe a Celtiberian or Spanish (Cantabri?) tribe, given the strong resemblances with this picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Altamira,_bison.jpg) of a stylized bull-cave-painting at Altamira. Even the hind legs and it's tail are visible in the occultus logo. Although much older than the EB-timeframe, it does seem to resemble the contours of the occultus-logo, while bulls continued to play an important role in Celtiberian and Spanish culture (e.g. the stone bull-statues in Guisando).
In the unlikely event I find or come up with anything else, I'll let you know.
kind regards,
Andy
Great post Andy1984, very interesting views. But correct me if I am wrong hasn't Syracuse already been ruled out and, aside from Tacitus, do we know enough about the Baltic tribes socio-political structures to allow the EBII team to produce a faction? Having artefacts and reconstructing the old Baltic language is enough for units but I doubt there is enough evidence to allow the production of a Baltic faction. Don't get me wrong I think a Baltic faction would be great but I don't think the archaeological evidence alone is enough.
On the topic of the Belgae (or one of the Belgic tribes) not being feasible on account of the "overpopulation" of factions in the Belgic neighbourhood I agree with you to an extent. I was playing as the Aedui today and noticed that the area of Belgica Bellovacae and Belgica Nervica (sorry if spelling is wrong) are not exactly surrounded by Eleutheroi territories. But then again consider that in EBII the number of provinces in Britain and Ireland have been reduced (possibly to expand the Belgic regions in Gaul to represent the region more accurately?). Also the KH, Macedon and Epirus all start off surrounded by competing factions, as does Pontos and the future Pergamanese faction. (Sorry if I seem rude, I am just a die hard advocate for a Belgic faction).
Nice thoughts though!
WinsingtonIII
09-14-2010, 20:56
I'm pretty sure that it has already been stated that there simply isn't enough information from this time period on the proto-Balts or Slavs to warrant a faction based off of either them. Tacitus and Ptolemy don't appear until after the EB time frame is over, and Strabo doesn't appear until the end of the EB time frame, so, at best, this information would only be relevant to representing the factions at the extreme end of EB. Before that, all we have is archaeological finds, and I really doubt there is enough information to be gleaned as to make an entire, accurate faction. Considering the team has already stated that the Nabateans will not be included simply because they do not know much of anything on their early military, I doubt a proto-Baltic or proto-Slavic tribe will make the cut, given that there is most likely next to zero information on either of them at game start in 272 BC.
Andy1984
09-14-2010, 23:11
@Brennus: thanks
@Winsington: I guessed the sources on the Baltic/Scandinavian area would indeed be scarce at best, non-existant at worst. So I started to search after written texts: little to no findings for the Baltic/Slavic area. If they opted for a Gotlandic, a Swedish or a Baltic faction, written information would be close to non-existant indeed. But. But there seem to be reasons to assume some kind of continuity in the Baltic/Swedish area. Tacitus describes several factions as nomadic hunters: hunting with both men and women and not relying on agriculture at all. If so, we can quite safely assume these people were hunters a few hundred or years earlier as well. When the team selects one of the east-Germanic tribes with a strong reliance on the Nerthuz-cult, they can extrapolate what we know of the Nerthuz-cult, Norse mythology and etymology to such a faction. It is certainly a big jump, but these jumps will have to be made for the Pritannoi as well. The Kaali impact craters (http://www.gi.ee/pdfid/10200.pdf) (created in 800-400BC) in Saaremaa (an Estonian island) would make a nice 'wonder' for a Baltic/Estonian faction with a distinctive Thaarapita (http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol26/sutrop.pdf)-god. Specifically for the Saaremaa island: it seems to have been a densely populated area during the Bronze Age, whose population relied on cattle rearing, agriculture and seal-hunting. There has been a fortified settlement (Asva (http://www.saaremaa.ee/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=587&Itemid=313&lang=et&el_mcal_month=2&el_mcal_year=2009)), and an abundance of bronze age artefacts. Even better: there is continuous settlement untill 500AD. With a little bit of goodwill, one might identify this same Saaremaa with Thule, and thus 'find' written sources to fill in the lapsi of these archeological findings. Ptolemy seems to have mentioned the Osilians inhabiting this island, but I didn't check yet what kind of information his 'mentioning' gave us. More info on the Saaremaa cataclysm can be found in "Echoes on ancient cataclysms in the Baltic Sea (http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol23/echoes.pdf)", which draws a link between the Estonian mythology as recorded in the nineteenth-century and the Kaali-craters, and two broader articles on Estonian mythology who cannot be pinned to the EB-timeframe: link (http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol11/oak.htm)and link (http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol16/oak2.pdf).
When it comes to archeological findings, there are - luckily - even more dots to connect. Not for the Slaves or the Baltic people (or at least not that I know of), but for a Cimbrian or a Jutland tribe. There is the Trundholm Sun Chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trundholm_sun_chariot)which tells us something on the Nordic/Svedic pantheon (although the Trundholm Sun Chart predates the EB-timeframe by at least seven centuries). There are several famous burials/bog bodies in Jutland and Northern Europe (including Friesland, Northern Germany,...). Several of these tell us something on dress, haircuts (braids), food and human sacrifices. I would be surprised if archeologists didn't recover the clothings of these people. (Granted: even these clothings may not tell us only something on ritual dress, and nothing on battle dress.) We have accounts of the Cimbri invasion (although I didn't check them yet), and there might be other information on the Cimbri at offeringsites like the one at Gundestrup.
At Hjortspring (Jutland) a ritually offered boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjortspring_boat)(300 to 400 BC) has been excavated, and with it hundreds of spearheads, celtic shields, armours,... Again: these finds won't reflect how the Cimbri or any other Scandinavian tribe armed themselves, but they are a great starting point to compare these findings with ritual findings of tribes we know which arms they used. We also know that minor boats were portrayed quite extensively in Sweden. Although Tacitus describes the presence of Swedish ships at the end of the EB-timeframe, there are petroglyphs of ships from and before the EB-timeframe as well. These ships seem to have been reconstructed as well.
Maybe I'm just too enthousiastic on a Scandinavian/Baltic faction. At first sight, a Cimbri-faction seems possible (to me). A Baltic or more Nordic faction is probably harder and riskier.
kind regards,
Andy
moonburn
09-15-2010, 04:43
i like your writting andy1984 but i think all the factions are picked already and by my views either the chatii or the nervii will be in
also the team already discarded the skytians of olbia (but gave us the bosphoran kingdom) and the syracuseans but according to what i read already from the twitter either the basternae or the luiggians are probably going to be included (doesn´t make much sence since they´ll be stuck beteween the boii the sauromatae the getai and if they don´t move fast enough north by the sweaboz) but thats just one of my guesses
also it´s extremly likely that the arevaci from celtiberia will be included and ofc in another aproach probably a new nomadic faction and/or the helvetti or some other alpine or maybe even illyrian faction
confirmed we got :
- numidians
- boii
- bosphorans
-pergamese
(6 missing but from those 6 i think that the celtiberians will be one of those and either the luiggians from nowadays poland or the basternae from nowadays ukraine forests) so 4 to try and guess XD
Brave Brave Sir Robin
09-15-2010, 16:02
I don't think Syracuse was ruled out. Massilia was but I don't recall a team member ruling out Syracuse which really makes me think that they still might make it. I'm thinking arevaci, bastarnae, a belgic tribe, syracuse, caucasian iberia, and either atropatene or another arab tribe.
Mithridates VI Eupator
09-15-2010, 17:44
Anyone notice how all the suggested factions seem to be on the western half of the map...?
Anyone notice how all the suggested factions seem to be on the western half of the map...?
If it wasn't for the culture slots everybody would say Mauryan empire, Gandhara or Axum XD
BTW I'm all for: Arevaci, Bastarnae, Atropatene, Syracuse or Cyrene, Dalmatae or Scordisci, Belgae tribe or script related faction ^^
The culture slot problem only really applies to black african factions as it determines FM portraits, so someone like the Mauryans would be fine in that regard (less so in a lot of others though).
If it wasn't for the culture slots everybody would say Mauryan empire, Gandhara or Axum XD
BTW I'm all for: Arevaci, Bastarnae, Atropatene, Syracuse or Cyrene, Dalmatae or Scordisci, Belgae tribe or script related faction ^^
There seems to be a general concensus of which factions people would like to have included. The next faction preview is gonna land like an atomic bomb.
Horatius Flaccus
09-15-2010, 21:01
If we are going to talk about the eastern half of the map: what about the Massagetae? Just throwing out ideas here, it's probably not really a good choice.
And I still think Kartli has a good chance of being included...
Another one could be the Nabateans, but maybe the'll need some geographical help in the campaign map, otherwise they'll end up being crushed by the AS or the Ptolemaioi...
One thing I keep coming back to in my mind is (I am sorry for sounding like a borken record) if there were a Belgic faction, which tribe would it be? The Bellovaci and the Nervi were the most powerful of the Belgic tribes but neither of them were particularly expansive. According to Caesar the Suessiones did rule substantial parts of Gaul and Britain during the reign of Diviciacus whilst the archaeological and other historical evidence suggests the Ambiani and Atrebates settled in Britain. However, none of these tribes held a hegemony over all of Belgica in the same way the Averni and Aedui controlled large alliances in Gallia Comata.
Those you mentioned are the "top 5", the thing is that Gallia Belgica would need at least 3-5 regions XD
Than one of them could be choose ^^
...if there were a Belgic faction, which tribe would it be? ...
Well we have the Prytanoi, representing a complex of tribes in Britain, so we may well end up with the Belgae representing a complex of tribes in Belgia-land.
Given the lack of documentation or persistance of tribal names, a more general approach may be the best one. Either way I have a feeling some sort of Belgic faction a lock.
Well we have the Prytanoi, representing a complex of tribes in Britain, so we may well end up with the Belgae representing a complex of tribes in Belgia-land.
Given the lack of documentation or persistance of tribal names, a more general approach may be the best one. Either way I have a feeling some sort of Belgic faction a lock.
That would certainly be feasible. If the Belgae united to form a confederacy to oppose both Caesar and the Cimbri-Tuetones then who's to say such alliances werne't a common feature of Belgic inter-tribal politics?
NoHelmet
09-18-2010, 15:16
God damn it, i think that the sig is there to cloud our thinking. Best clue that i could see was a positive hint that "it's way off geographicaly" from nabatea, so we can exclude north-eastern africa, fertile crescent and arabia. Then, i think it should be a faction that was, at least to some extent, expansionistic and ifluental. Also, there is IMHO need to balance some factions without much enemies in their neighborhood, such as Sweboz and Sauromatae.
As for history, damn. Not nearly educated enough to make wild-guesses, but some of mine were: 1. Xiongnu, right next to Sakae, at 209bc aready had a solid nomad state, and were aggresive to in some hipotetical way expand to the west, but, they didn't, so i don't think they have a good case. 2. & 3. Proto-slavs & Proto-balts. Way beyond EB timeframe, but certainly were in central-eastern europe in that time, and they surely were numerous enough to be distinct factions, nor did their technology undergo any serious revolution to the time of our first knowledge of them. Also, good way to bring more fun to european steppe scene. But still, their case is on a hear-say basis, and doesn't have a bright EB future as far as i can tell. 4. Central asian nomads, massagetae or someone like them (historians, feel free to unleash your anger if something is blatantly ignorant on my side) 5. Balkan factions: Scordisci, Illyrioi, Bastarnae are all fine, and might be a great way to slow down Getae and Epeiros, with a good historic ground IMO.
Brave Brave Sir Robin
09-18-2010, 18:07
I really don't think 1-3 are a possibility. Xiongnu are way to far to the east. In fact, the team already cut the Yuezhi because they were too far out of the timeframe mapwise and they were in fact being pushed west by a series of population shifts potentially started by the Xiongnu expanding westwards.
NoHelmet
09-18-2010, 18:47
I know, it was a far fetched guess... Listed them because i've seen a map with their state being in EB map area, a little part of the state, though. Without paying huge attention to the notorious sig, my best guesses would be central Europe, Balkans, and the Steppes, just for the lack of factions there... And as for the sig, damn, it looked like a dragon to me most... Most realistic, IMO, would be a second german faction and some balkan tribe, illyrians perhaps.
I doubt the Xiognu were on the current EB map because it's debatable whether even the Yuezhi were, and the latter were further west. The Yuezhi were actually a faction back in EB 0.7, but were cut partly because they probably weren't on the map and partly because, even if they were, their main activity would have been on the eastern side, fending off the Xiognu. Because of this I doubt they will be returning in EB2. Another one or two central Asian steppe factions have been mentioned as a candidate factions for the final faction slot of EB1, but the Xiognu are definitely out.
Proto-Balts I think unlikely, but hasn't been positively denied. Proto-Slavs are out. The exact origin of the Slavs is anybody's guess, but they can't be identified properly until well after EB's time-frame.
Mithridates VI Eupator
09-21-2010, 20:57
The Xiongnu would only enter our map in any meaningful way in around 175 B.C, after defeating the Yuezhi and some other nomad confederacies and city states in the Tarim Basin. They were, however, never next to the Saka, and in 209, when Motun became their Shan-yü, they were actually a relatively weak confederacy mainly controling land between the northern Ordos and, at most, the Turfan depression.
Can i just check are emergent factions ruled out?
Also how about rebel factions that represent civil war?
There seems to have been a lot ruled out and not much ruled in from what I have seen. Either of the above would open up a lot more options. Also Brennan is promising an "atomic bomb" and either of the above would certainly be unexpected.
Tellos Athenaios
09-22-2010, 18:21
Can i just check are emergent factions ruled out? I think so.
Also how about rebel factions that represent civil war? Just about every faction would've had a civil war at some point were they to dominate. That way madness lies.
There seems to have been a lot ruled out and not much ruled in from what I have seen. It's easier to say no when you know it is a no, then to say yes when you are not sure it will be.
Either of the above would open up a lot more options. Also Brennan is promising an "atomic bomb" and either of the above would certainly be unexpected.Atomic bombs, mental squirrel death rays and other superweapons? Those are a no go, I'm afraid.
Atomic bombs, mental squirrel death rays and other superweapons? Those are a no go, I'm afraid.
Did you not see the Pritanoi preview? Mental squirrel death rays are in!
But seriously he said that the next preview would be an "atomic bomb" in reference to everyone speculating on the factions being belgae and iberian so I'm expecting a surprise in the next one.......... whenever that is...........................
Can i just check are emergent factions ruled out?
Also how about rebel factions that represent civil war?
Yes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?89290-Stele-1) to both.
There seems to have been a lot ruled out and not much ruled in from what I have seen. Either of the above would open up a lot more options.
That's because the team won't reveal the new factions, but has given reasons against some of the more unlikely proposed candidates. I am not sure how this is a problem.
I'm not saying its a problem that stuff is ruled out and it is good that the team do.
Sorry if it came across that way. I was just trying to explain why I asked about emergent factions and civil wars.
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