Changing Camillan Principes

[Dutchhoplite]

Hi all,

I want to remove the pilum from the Camillan Principes but i've got a few questions.

As i'm allmost a complete moddingnoob..

Will removing the pilum from these early principes this have any effect on their Polybian counterparts??

How do i actually do this??

Is this save game compatible??

Thanks :2thumbsup:

DH

[Skullheadhq]

Hi all,

I want to remove the pilum from the Camillan Principes but i've got a few questions.

As i'm allmost a complete moddingnoob..

Will removing the pilum from these early principes this have any effect on their Polybian counterparts??

How do i actually do this??

Is this save game compatible??

Thanks :2thumbsup:

DH
Just change some thingies in the EDU, and this IS save game compitable AFAIK.

[Watchman]

Dropping the attack values of the pilum to 0 might do the trick, not quite sure though. In any case (most) EDU changes are savegame compatible.

BTW, may I wonder as to the "why" ?

[Dutchhoplite]

Well, its debatable and it "could" be a mistake but in his description of the battle of Beneventum Dionysius of Halicarnassus describes Roman Principes using thrusting spears like the hasta. This "could" mean they had not yet converted to the pilum and were in some sort of transitionory phase.

Like i said, it's debatable but worth a try ;)

[Watchman]

...don't Camillian Principes use spears for melee though...? :huh:

[Atilius]

The issue is that the quote (a fragment) indicates the principes are wielding their spears two-handed, so carrying javelins would be a problem:


Those who fight in close combat with cavalry spears grasped by the middle with both hands and who usually save the day in battles are called principes by the Romans.

- Dionysios of Halikarnassos, 20.11

It's difficult to know what to make of this passage, and there are indications that it's a late insertion.

[Watchman]

It would also preclude the use of shields which makes even less sense, and basically comes across as having been pulled wholesale out of someone's derriere. Or a case of Lost In Translation and what have you.

[Watchman]

Addendum: given that the javelins would in any case be thrown before contact, until which even a pike can be and usually is carried one-handed...

[Dutchhoplite]

Yes, it looks like a mess but i still would like to use them i a transitionory way...

And i don't think this change is per se ahistorical. It's not like i want to give them uzi's ;)

[Dutchhoplite]

If i change this:



;248
type roman infantry principes early
dictionary roman_infantry_principes_early ; Principes
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_principesearly, 40, 0, 1.15
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 9, 9, 4, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -1, -3
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1046, 262, 50, 80, 1046
ownership seleucid, slave


Into this:


;248
type roman infantry principes early
dictionary roman_infantry_principes_early ; Principes
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_principesearly, 40, 0, 1.15
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 9, 9, 4, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -1, -3
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1046, 262, 50, 80, 1046
ownership seleucid, slave

Would that do the trick??

[Watchman]

Not really, it'll make them stab the other guy with their pila. Did you try reducing the primary-weapon attack values to 0 ? I was hoping that'd sidestep the throwing-spear being the "primary" weapon on the model...

[Dutchhoplite]

stat_pri 0, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap


Like this?

[Watchman]

Pretty much, though I'd make it like this:

stat_pri 0, 0, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
Mainly on principle though.

[Dutchhoplite]

Thanks, i'll try that ;)