OT Latin linguists?

[Macilrille]

Question, Caligae "Military Boots", Caligula "Little Boot" (it smarts me every time I hear that pop-chick calling herself that).

What would "Little German" be? Germanigula?

Sorry for the OT.

[delablake]

I guess it should be "Germanunculus"

[abou]

Question, Caligae "Military Boots", Caligula "Little Boot" (it smarts me every time I hear that pop-chick calling herself that).

What would "Little German" be? Germanigula?

Sorry for the OT.I'm at class right now away from all my dictionaries and grammar books, but Germanicula seems about right.

Still though, I'm sure that there is something out there that sounds much more pleasing to the ear.

[Macilrille]

Probably, come to think of it, the Greek version would suffice as well.

[Wausser]

I guess it should be "Germanunculus"

Using my dusty knowledge of Latin, a dictonary and the internet, I have to agree on this


edit:I think it should be Germanusculum

[Skullheadhq]

Germanusculum.

[Macilrille]

Thanks all.

[Teucer]

Well, latin for 'Greek' is Graecus and its diminutive is 'Graeculus' (used all the time as a diss by the satirists)

soooo...

if 'German' is Germanus, then 'little German' should be Germanulus. I couldn't find this word in the big Lewis and Short Latin Dictionary, so I don't think it was ever actually used (at least not in anything that survives to this day), but the form makes sense.

But don't forget that 'germanus-i' (without a capital G) means brother. Its a less common synonym for frater, fratri.

Also, keep in mind that 'German' as an adjective is Germanicus-a-um (but 'brotherly' is germanus-a-um)


so, 'little german girl' could be puella Germanica, but you could just use Germanula.

Of course 'the German brother of the little German girl' would be germanus Germanicus Germanulae :2thumbsup:

[Skullheadhq]

Germanulus for men, sorry, my bad.

[machinor]

The Greek diminutive suffix is -ion/-ios/-ia. For example biblos ("book") becomes biblios ("little book"... the root of the word "Bible").
So basically the same concept as with the Latin -ulus/-ula/-ulum.

[abou]

Back from campus and with my books. There are a couple of different endings you could use. I won't write them all out, but if you really want me to, I can. Anyway, I assume that this is for a female, as indicated by your use of the feminine ending in your initial post.

There are two root words I would consider using: Germanicus and Teutonicus. You could also used Teutonus, which is normally only Teutoni as we only have surviving examples of the word in the plural. That does not mean that Tuetonus was not used, however. Also, if you ever read poetry, the poets sometimes have a habit of dropping syllables for the sake of meter, which can be a real pain in the ass as it happens most often with verbs in various tenses. That could also justify the drop in a syllable here for the sake of aural aesthetics.

So, as a term of endearment, may I suggest Teutonula, Teutonicula, Germanicula, or Germanula?

Some of the other endings that people have suggested are demonstrably incorrect as they are for other declensions.

[Macilrille]

Hey Abou, nope it is for a male. But thanks for the effort ;-)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hey Abou, nope it is for a male. But thanks for the effort ;-)

Germanulus. Abou got confused because you started with Calicula.

[Macilrille]

Who was also a male :dizzy2:

[Tiberius Gracchus]

As far as I remember latin classes, "germanellus" would also be correct.


Who was also a male :dizzy2:

He was, but "caliga" is feminine even when used as a nickname for a man. Just as "poeta" or "agricola" are feminine nouns. But when using an adjective to decribe them, the adjective has to be used in the masculine form, e.g. "poeta romanus" or "agricola romanus".

[abou]

Well, I was confused because he used "Germanigula".

Poeta and agricola may be 1st declension, but they are certainly masculine in gender. The same with nauta.

1st declension nouns are mostly feminine, but in the above three examples (and some others), there are clearly exceptions.

2nd declension nouns are either masculine or neuter and any noun that looks 2nd declension, but is feminine (eg. Venus) is actually 3rd declension.

[anubis88]

I have a bit of topic question for the Latin linguists...

Why are the roman provinces known like:
Provinciae Sicilia
Priovinciae Sardinia and Corsica?

Why is there the -ae? Shouldn't it be Provincia Sicilia? I understand the Sardinia and corsica part since it's in plural, but Sicilia is singular

[Tiberius Gracchus]

Poeta and agricola may be 1st declension, but they are certainly masculine in gender. The same with nauta.



Well, I may be wrong but as fas as I remember there is a "grammatical gender" and a "natural gender". "Poeta" then would be of masculine natural gender but of feminine grammatical gender. The adjective always follows the natural gender.

These discrepancies may be rare but they also exist in other languages. In German for example the noun "Mädchen" (=girl) is grammatically neuter while girls are of course of feminine natural gender - even in Germany ;-)

[Tiberius Gracchus]

I have a bit of topic question for the Latin linguists...

Why is there the -ae? Shouldn't it be Provincia Sicilia? I understand the Sardinia and corsica part since it's in plural, but Sicilia is singular

I think "-ae" in this context is not plural but genitive (it's the same form). E.g. "proconsul provinciae siciliae" means Proconsul of the Province Sicila.

[anubis88]

I think "-ae" in this context is not plural but genitive (it's the same form). E.g. "proconsul provinciae siciliae" means Proconsul of the Province Sicila.

Sorry but that does not make much sense. Why would Provincia be in the Genitive? It's clearly nominative... Or i'm to sleepy to think straight

[Tiberius Gracchus]

Sorry but that does not make much sense. Why would Provincia be in the Genitive? It's clearly nominative... Or i'm to sleepy to think straight

Sorry, I just assumed you may have referred to one of these provincial governor traits. In what context is it used in your example, then?

[anubis88]

Actually you may have a point, i'm talking about the trait, however it clearly says Provinciae sicilia. And it should IMHO either say ProvinciA SiciliA, or ProvinciAE SiciliAE.
In the game provinciae Sicilia would actually mean provinces of Sicily, while there was only one province of Sicily. So i think it should be Provincia Sicilia. Well i'm going to sleep now, perhaps tommorow i will see my mistake

[abou]

Well, I may be wrong but as fas as I remember there is a "grammatical gender" and a "natural gender". "Poeta" then would be of masculine natural gender but of feminine grammatical gender. The adjective always follows the natural gender.

These discrepancies may be rare but they also exist in other languages. In German for example the noun "Mädchen" (=girl) is grammatically neuter while girls are of course of feminine natural gender - even in Germany ;-)What would you say if I told you that Latin was my second minor in undergrad and that is the first time I've heard of natural and grammatical gender?


I have a bit of topic question for the Latin linguists...

Why are the roman provinces known like:
Provinciae Sicilia
Priovinciae Sardinia and Corsica?

Why is there the -ae? Shouldn't it be Provincia Sicilia? I understand the Sardinia and corsica part since it's in plural, but Sicilia is singularIf those are from our traits, it seems we flubbed and forgot to put the province names in the genitive. For example, it should be X Provinciae Siciliae - X of the Province of Sicily. I'd wait to hear from the Roman team itself though as they came up with the traits.

[Tiberius Gracchus]

And it should IMHO either say ProvinciA SiciliA, or ProvinciAE SiciliAE.

You're right. That's what I think, too.



In the game provinciae Sicilia would actually mean provinces of Sicily, while there was only one province of Sicily.

As far as I know "provinciae sicilia" is not a grammatically correct form. "Provinces of Sicily" would also be "provinciae siciliae" in Latin. "sicilia" can only be nominative, vocative or ablative. At the moment I can't think of an construction/combination of "provinciae" and "sicilia" which would make any sense.

[Mulceber]

What would you say if I told you that Latin was my second minor in undergrad and that is the first time I've heard of natural and grammatical gender?

I'm majoring in it, and I agree - there isn't any "rule" about grammatical vs. natural gender. It's just always been naturally understood in most European languages that just because a noun has a masculine or feminine gender does not necessarily mean the object associated with that noun has that gender - or any gender at all for that matter. It's not something that linguists have sought to explain, as far as I know, because it's just always been considered a given.


As far as I know "provinciae sicilia" is not a grammatically correct form. "Provinces of Sicily" would also be "provinciae siciliae" in Latin. "sicilia" can only be nominative, vocative or ablative. At the moment I can't think of an construction/combination of "provinciae" and "sicilia" which would make any sense.

Well, theoretically, "Provinciae Sicilia" could mean "the Provinces from Sicily," but I think the Romans would consider that a very odd way to phrase it. As far as I can tell, it's really just a gaff on the part of the modders - one of very few. The only other one I can think of is the phrase "Quisque Est Barbarus Alio" which should be "Quisque est Barbarus Alii." -M

[Tiberius Gracchus]

What would you say if I told you that Latin was my second minor in undergrad and that is the first time I've heard of natural and grammatical gender?


I'm sure that you know way more of Latin than I do. I just had it in school for seven years but I haven't learnt any latin since about 1994. But I'm quite sure this is what they teached us in Latin classes.

I don't know where you studied Latin but maybe they teach some different things in different countries?

Just did a quick Google search. I know that proof based on Wikipedia is not really any proof but it seems those poeple writing for Wikipedia have heard of natural and grammatical gender:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender#Grammatical_vs._natural_gender

There also seem to be some scientific articles concerning natural and grammatical gender:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&q=natural+and+grammatical+gender&btnG=Suche&lr=&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=grammatical+gender&hl=de&client=safari&rls=de-de&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&q=natural+gender&btnG=Suche&lr=&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

[anubis88]

You're right. That's what I think, too.




As far as I know "provinciae sicilia" is not a grammatically correct form. "Provinces of Sicily" would also be "provinciae siciliae" in Latin. "sicilia" can only be nominative, vocative or ablative. At the moment I can't think of an construction/combination of "provinciae" and "sicilia" which would make any sense.

Yeah i agree, it's not a correct form. Scratch what i've written. Provinciae Sicilia doesn't not make sense in any way. It's cleary a bug