ESC: Should I be fined 15k for misbehaving at a friends barberque? [Archive]

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 16:37

The "who's got the crappiest english"-contest is over for now, and while I can't say I heard any of the songs, I did hear about Jimmy Jump (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Jump):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQwTtklX2Wk

He's the guy with the black shirt and red hat

And for that stunt, he's fined 15.000 NOK. Which if you ask me, is absurd. Not the amount, but the fact that he got punished for that. Why on earth should something like that be illegal? He didn't injure anyone, he didn't threaten anyone, he didn't cause any damage whatsoever. Did he act like a douche? Sure, but so what? Why on earth should it be a crime to behave like a douche?

A few weeks back, I was at my cousins confirmation, during which my uncle held a speech. What if I had ruined his speech by acting like an idiot? Would I get an invitation to the next family gathering? Doubtful. But would they call the police? And if so, would the police give me a 15k fine for ruining my uncles speech? If not, why on earth are we giving this guy a 15k fine, how is what he did any worse than ruining my uncle's speech?

ESC can decide that they don't want him near any future finals, but that's hardest reaction he should face. And he should certainly not get any reaction from the state.

gaelic cowboy

05-31-2010, 16:41

Didnt they have to replay the song surely that cost several thousands of NOK or more, there's your reason for the fine subjecting the continent of Europe to the Spanish entry two times.

Ronin

05-31-2010, 16:58

this guy has been pulling crap like this for years now.....
one of these days the security detail should just take him behind the building where he pulled his last prank and just break his legs....enough is enough moron!

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 16:59

gaelic cowboy

05-31-2010, 17:02

What damage did he cause....?

Well he cost the broadcaster thousands in wasted time is that enough for ya

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 17:04

Well he cost the broadcaster thousands in wasted time is that enough for ya

There was no additional cost to NRK whatsoever. The bloated cost for the event is just as bloated as was predicted.

Ronin

05-31-2010, 17:18

What damage did he cause....?

he annoyed me...

Rhyfelwyr

05-31-2010, 17:19

IMO he should face the death penalty for disturbing such a performance.

gaelic cowboy

05-31-2010, 17:25

IMO he should face the death penalty for disturbing such a performance.

Yes quite right he interupted the poor spanish fellow dieing on stage himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT9xuXQjxMM

Louis VI the Fat

05-31-2010, 17:54

Bah. Whether one enjoys the ESC or not, this guy is a douchebag. These performers have worked hard to perform their show, people are trying to watch it, so why ruin it. Let him learn how to sing / dance too if he craves the attention, don't steal it from somebody else.

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 18:26

Crazed Rabbit

05-31-2010, 18:32

Sounds like trespassing. Therefore, the state should punish him.

CR

Louis VI the Fat

05-31-2010, 18:36

True.

But why should this be a criminal offence?He has not been sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines. Just a fine of 15.000 NOK. Sounds not unreasonable to me.

That is € 1850. Which is, I think, worth $1.50 or one pound sterling.

Lemur

05-31-2010, 19:14

It's Soy Bomb all over again.

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 19:22

Sounds like trespassing. Therefore, the state should punish him.

CR

Nope - he paid for his entry, just like everyone else did.

He has not been sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines. Just a fine of 15.000 NOK. Sounds not unreasonable to me.

So you would agree that it would be fair to fine you 15k because you chose "Louis VI the Fat" as your nickname? I mean.... it's not like you're being sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines, right?

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

Sasaki Kojiro

05-31-2010, 19:25

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

What if he ran onto the soccer field when it looked like your team was going to score a goal?

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

05-31-2010, 19:29

Nope - he paid for his entry, just like everyone else did.

So you would agree that it would be fair to fine you 15k because you chose "Louis VI the Fat" as your nickname? I mean.... it's not like you're being sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines, right?

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

The Law is Sacred, if he broke it he should pay the mandated penalty.

In this case his tresspassed on stage and disrupted an international broadcast intended (however misguidely) to promote pan-European good will. For doing this he was fined about £1500, which is quite litterally a small price to pay for being on international television.

InsaneApache

05-31-2010, 19:30

Wait! The police fined him? Blimey talk about doing away with the justice system.

As for the guy they should guillotine him and hand over his fine to the Norwegian King. :juggle2:

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 19:39

What if he ran onto the soccer field when it looked like your team was going to score a goal?

It COULD be presented as equal to shouting fire in a crowded theatre, but only at big matches with packed stadiums. Football stadiums here are rarely filled up more than 60%(with a few notable exceptions), so the risk is minimal in those cases. No fine. As for being about to score a goal; how on earth is that relevant?

The Law is Sacred, if he broke it he should pay the mandated penalty.

The law is sacred, you say? Hitler acknowledges your support for his racial purity laws. Damn those jews!

In this case his tresspassed on stage and disrupted an international broadcast intended (however misguidely) to promote pan-European good will. For doing this he was fined about £1500, which is quite litterally a small price to pay for being on international television.

So, if I enter an area of my friends barberque that I'm not supposed to be at, I will be facing a 15k fine....?

Wait! The police fined him? Blimey talk about doing away with the justice system.

It's called "forenklet forelegg". The police fines him, he gets to decide whether or not he accepts. If he does, he pays. If he doesn't, then it'll go to court. No sense in paying judges and lawyers when everyone is in agreement.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

05-31-2010, 19:44

The law is sacred, you say? Hitler acknowledges your support for his racial purity laws. Damn those jews!

The Law must be Sacred, otherwise you have Tyranny; Solon knew this, which is why he went into self-imposed exile. In the case of Hitler, he subverted the Law to gain power and thus his own laws are invalid. If you want to discuss how the Law must always reflect morality, that is another topic.

So, if I enter an area of my friends barberque that I'm not supposed to be at, I will be facing a 15k fine....?

Is your friends barbecue an internationally televised event design to promote pan-European goodwill?

KukriKhan

05-31-2010, 19:46

So HoreTore your position is that the fine is too big? Or that he shouldn't be fined at all?

InsaneApache

05-31-2010, 19:47

How the hell did Godwin get a mention in a thread about a divvy jumping on stage? :inquisitive: :dizzy2:

Sasaki Kojiro

05-31-2010, 19:50

It COULD be presented as equal to shouting fire in a crowded theatre, but only at big matches with packed stadiums. Football stadiums here are rarely filled up more than 60%(with a few notable exceptions), so the risk is minimal in those cases. No fine. As for being about to score a goal; how on earth is that relevant?

Oh, these "bite the bullet" arguments are so pointless. Perhaps you don't care for sports in the slightest, HoreTore, but many people do. And their enjoyment of the game is being ruined. If that doesn't make it a crime, and it would have to be a situation of life and death, then you have no grounds for objecting to a fine since he isn't being killed or injured, it is only his joy that is being harmed.

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 20:03

Is your friends barbecue an internationally televised event design to promote pan-European goodwill?

I don't see why that is relevant at all. If something is illegal to do, then it should be illegal to do no matter how many people are watching you.

So HoreTore your position is that the fine is too big? Or that he shouldn't be fined at all?

That to fine him is barbaric. He should be banned by ESC, but the state should not take any action. This is a dispute between two civilians, it should not involve the state.

Oh, these "bite the bullet" arguments are so pointless. Perhaps you don't care for sports in the slightest, HoreTore, but many people do. And their enjoyment of the game is being ruined. If that doesn't make it a crime, and it would have to be a situation of life and death, then you have no grounds for objecting to a fine since he isn't being killed or injured, it is only his joy that is being harmed.

No, a fine is violence of the state towards a person. I happen to love football, and I fully stand by the FA's and clubs right to ban such a guy from any future events. But I do not see how a state can punish him.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-31-2010, 20:06

No, a fine is violence of the state towards a person. I happen to love football, and I fully stand by the FA's and clubs right to ban such a guy from any future events. But I do not see how a state can punish him.

That's incorrect...that isn't what "violence" means.

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 20:08

That's incorrect...that isn't what "violence" means.

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

05-31-2010, 20:13

I don't see why that is relevant at all. If something is illegal to do, then it should be illegal to do no matter how many people are watching you.

the Norwegian State is hosting the event, so he has embarressed and inconvenienced the Norwegian State.

That to fine him is barbaric. He should be banned by ESC, but the state should not take any action. This is a dispute between two civilians, it should not involve the state.

Well, it does involve the state, because the ESC is not a "private" event, it is a diplomatic one.

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

Technically correct, it falls under "Soverign Violence" (the right of the State to inflict harm which would otherwise be illegal) and is twinned with "Sacred Law" (The Right of the State to create invioable rules which all citizens/subjects must obey).

Sasaki Kojiro

05-31-2010, 20:21

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

Fines aren't violent.

But if we are defining words how we want, than I shall say that this man violently disrupted my viewing of the soccer game, and thus committed an act of violence, punishable by violently sending him a bill in the mail.

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 20:23

the Norwegian State is hosting the event, so he has embarressed and inconvenienced the Norwegian State.

Uhm, no? The event was held by NRK, not the state. Quite remarkably, this event didn't get a single penny from the state...

Louis VI the Fat

05-31-2010, 20:42

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. Mwah, I dunno.

I'm all for a bit of sensation. This would've been cool if it was Metallica at a rock concert. It woud've been fine if he was a streaker at a football match.

But something about this feels misplaced, it all just looks annoying. A bit like Kanye(?) at those awards. 'Your song is cool and all, and Imma let you continue, but first I'm going to ruin your big event for you'

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 20:55

But something about this feels misplaced, it all just looks annoying. A bit like Kanye(?) at those awards. 'Your song is cool and all, and Imma let you continue, but first I'm going to ruin your big event for you'

A brilliant example!!

Now everyone, what fine did Kanye West recieve?

Crazed Rabbit

05-31-2010, 21:08

Nope - he paid for his entry, just like everyone else did.

I very much doubt that entry granted him access to the stage.

That to fine him is barbaric. He should be banned by ESC, but the state should not take any action. This is a dispute between two civilians, it should not involve the state.

Trespassing on someone's land is (heck, most crimes are) a dispute between two citizens, yet the state intercedes.

punishable by violently sending him a bill in the mail.

Lol.

Now everyone, what fine did Kanye West recieve?

Kayne wasn't trespassing when he was on stage.

CR

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 21:15

I very much doubt that entry granted him access to the stage.

So....

If I enter an area I'm not supposed to enter at my friends barberque, should the police pick me up and give my a fine of 15.000? Or is my friend limited to discontinue our friendship, and not invite me a second time...?

And do keep in mind that this is norway, we do not have draconian tresspassing laws like the US does. Which is why this guy is fined for a public disturbance, trespassing isn't a crime.

Beskar

05-31-2010, 21:20

I agree with HoreTore in that the guy shouldn't be fined. He can however become banned and get blacklisted at any future events. This guy is well-known for doing stunts like this. It isn't against the law for the company to simply bar him from entry (if he has already paid, refund him and let him not enter).

The law doesn't have to be involved at all.

You want to know who is really at fault right? ESC security staff. What were they doing to allow some one on the stage like that?

Husar

05-31-2010, 21:25

The "who's got the crappiest english"-contest is over for now, and while I can't say I heard any of the songs,

Ok, look, we won and our song was actually kinda nice.

Not sure why he should be fined, maybe attempting to ruin the business of whoever's business the song contest is?

Louis VI the Fat

05-31-2010, 21:31

Ok, look, we won and our song was actually kinda nice.Yay! Won the ESC and lost the president! :balloon:

Not sure why he should be fined, maybe attempting to ruin the business of whoever's business the song contest is?Maybe we should hand over his sorry arse to the next Pride March, for 'punishment'.

Viking

05-31-2010, 21:32

Our first priority should be to make the ESC illegal, then we'll solve any other problem after that.

Ser Clegane

05-31-2010, 21:41

Yay! Won the ESC and lost the president! :balloon:

Seeing the coverage in the media one might think it was the other way around...

But, heck, overall I think we made a decent deal here ~:)

HoreTore

05-31-2010, 21:44

Ok, look, we won and our song was actually kinda nice.

Indeed!

Germany's english was indeed some of the crappiest english I have heard in my entire life, congratulations!!

Although I'm still not entirely sure that's it's how she really speak english..... She must be faking that, it can't be real....

Our first priority should be to make the ESC illegal, then we'll solve any other problem after that.

But should the gay community have their day once a year?

Louis VI the Fat

05-31-2010, 22:01

Whoa!!! I just looked that winner up - she's überhot!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg3uX9jg_MI

Edit: There's nude pictures of her on the interwebs!!
[/creepy pathetic sexist]

InsaneApache

05-31-2010, 22:12

Must be mushroom season in Norway. :mad:

Louis VI the Fat

06-01-2010, 03:24

I just checked the voting results. Seeing which country gives which other points remains an endlessly fascinating subject. I'd love to have all scores of all years in a spreadsheet!

Sticking with this yera's winner, Germany, notica=eable are that there is a clear 'circle of culture' that gave Germany the full twelve points (Spain excepted): Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark), Estonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia), Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland), Latvia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia), Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway), Slovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia), Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain), Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden), Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland).

Germany, despite its overwhelming victory, received zero poinys from Israel. Nor did it last year. Or the year before. :huh:

The love fests are still in present. Spain - Portugal, Serbia - Bosnia, Romania - Moldova. As are the Balkan love entanglements: Albania - Macedonia - Greece - Cyprus.

Fascinating stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2010

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Why is everybody singing in English nowadays? What cultural poverty of this great and diverse continent! :help:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Here is Lena meeting Norwegian royalty, including one...whatever that is, at 1:05.

She's not that pretty up close. :shame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdw_DDXsdEU&feature=player_embedded

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Yay! I managed Israel, royalty, Balkans and babe thread material in a single post!

Banquo's Ghost

06-01-2010, 11:16

Yay! I managed Israel, royalty, Balkans and babe thread material in a single post!

Louis, you would have won the thread easily, if it wasn't for this truly outstanding Godwin:

The law is sacred, you say? Hitler acknowledges your support for his racial purity laws. Damn those jews!

Nazi comparisons in a Eurovision thread. Doesn't get better than that. :bow:

Meneldil

06-01-2010, 12:03

What is the girl's name anyway?

HoreTore

06-01-2010, 13:32

Nazi comparisons in a Eurovision thread. Doesn't get better than that. :bow:

I see absolutely no difference between Eurovision and Nazi Germany.

Banquo's Ghost

06-01-2010, 13:44

I see absolutely no difference between Eurovision and Nazi Germany.

Nazi Germany had way better songs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGp0hCxSg98).

Husar

06-01-2010, 17:02

Yay! Won the ESC and lost the president! :balloon:
Well, who did more for our country in terms of making the people happy? ~;)

Germany's english was indeed some of the crappiest english I have heard in my entire life, congratulations!!

Although I'm still not entirely sure that's it's how she really speak english..... She must be faking that, it can't be real....
It's "how she really speaks english, probably even "English".
And I really don't see what's bad about hers except maybe that she doesn't have a British accent, I find your comment pointlessly insulting, my guess is you hate Eurovision and everybody who takes part in it. I'm not a big fan either but at least we didn't send a "waddehaddeduddeda"-clown again...(that clown was the one who casted Lena in his show)

What is the girl's name anyway?
Lena Meyer-Landrut

Nazi Germany had way better songs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGp0hCxSg98).
And they're "not available" to me... :sweatdrop:

HoreTore

06-01-2010, 21:40

It's "how she really speaks english, probably even "English".
And I really don't see what's bad about hers except maybe that she doesn't have a British accent, I find your comment pointlessly insulting, my guess is you hate Eurovision and everybody who takes part in it. I'm not a big fan either but at least we didn't send a "waddehaddeduddeda"-clown again...(that clown was the one who casted Lena in his show)

And the real question is; why on earth do you care if I insult an ESC contestant....?

....and my use of lower case for nationalities, etc isn't a real spelling error; it's intentional and my silent protest against what I consider a ridiculous way of spelling things....

Rhyfelwyr

06-01-2010, 22:08

And the real question is; why on earth do you care if I insult an ESC contestant....?

Because these people are heroes to some of us, I am sorry you don't feel the same way.

Ronin

06-02-2010, 11:02

Because these people are heroes to some of us, I am sorry you don't feel the same way.

:dizzy2:

kinda reminds me of this...

It's real to me dammit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI)

had to be done!

HoreTore

06-02-2010, 11:10

Because these people are heroes to some of us, I am sorry you don't feel the same way.

Stalin is a hero to many people too.

I'm still going to insult him.

KukriKhan

06-02-2010, 16:08

Lena Meyer-Landrut

She and Jennifer Braun cover each other's songs? Or are they with the same label? "Sattellite", "Bee", where ever I see Lena's material, I also see Jennifer's, with a slightly different arrangement.

Ser Clegane

06-02-2010, 16:12

She and Jennifer Braun cover each other's songs? Or are they with the same label? "Sattellite", "Bee", where ever I see Lena's material, I also see Jennifer's, with a slightly different arrangement.

There was a contest to select the singer who would represent Germany in the ESC. In the finals these two had to sing these songs (from which the final song to be presented at the ESC was chosen)to allow the audience to compare their performance.

KukriKhan

06-02-2010, 17:56

There was a contest to select the singer who would represent Germany in the ESC. In the finals these two had to sing these songs (from which the final song to be presented at the ESC was chosen)to allow the audience to compare their performance.

Ahhh... I see.

Some posters above say that Lena's English is not British, whereas I detect a more UK 'lilt' to her pronunciation, vs Jennifer's almost midwestern-American accent. Of course, I've only heard them singing, not speaking normally, in English. How to they sound to your German ear?

-1 for derailing the topic

HoreTore

06-02-2010, 18:04

HoreTore

06-02-2010, 18:24

KukriKhan

06-02-2010, 18:25

Talking smack abour eurovision singers horrendous english is about the only thing that keeps the contest bearable(only just).

Like the idiot we sent, who sang "My HARD is yours".....was supposed to be "heart"....

I've often thought, since we use English here amongst many non-native speakers, that we should set up something where we all record the same short message and state where we are from, just for fun.

Ser Clegane

06-02-2010, 18:38

Ahhh... I see.

Some posters above say that Lena's English is not British, whereas I detect a more UK 'lilt' to her pronunciation, vs Jennifer's almost midwestern-American accent. Of course, I've only heard them singing, not speaking normally, in English. How to they sound to your German ear?

-1 for derailing the topic

I'd say her "spoken" English sounds very different from when she is singing, which is often considered to be an attempt to mimick e.g., Kate Nash (whose songes she BTW chose to perform in the earlier stages of the contest). People made quite some fun of her English here in Germany as well.

Here is a commentary from a British journalist:
'A Swedish Speech Therapist Imitating Ali G.' - Lena's Accent Is Really, Really Weird (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,696260,00.html)

But as HoreTore indicated - the trashy aspect of the ESC certainly is part of the fun and I actually started to enjoy it when they the whole event started to take itself less serious. Although I agree that it would be great to see some more modern talented artists entering the contest.

Husar

06-03-2010, 12:21

My main problem with Eurovision, is that we have a lot of talented musicians, there's a lot of very good music made here; but we still give the spot-light to some schmock created by the pop industry singing a ballad. We aren't we giving the following band the chance to promote themselves to a european audience?'
Ah, well, the first two, according to youtube, don't want germans to hear their music, so they are out.
The third is in Norwegian and very vocal, who would vote for that? It's boring if you only "understand" the little music there is.
The fourth song is actually very good, Sass is a bit slow and the Blood Control one is not to my taste but might just work.
And I guess we had a misunderstanding, I thought you meant the english when she sings was bad, but on the other hand I don't know why everybody's english has to be just perfect. (I obviouslyagree on writing english lower case though, you write pretty much everything lower case in english anyway... :sweatdrop: )

I'd say her "spoken" English sounds very different from when she is singing, which is often considered to be an attempt to mimick e.g., Kate Nash (whose songes she BTW chose to perform in the earlier stages of the contest). People made quite some fun of her English here in Germany as well.
Interesting, i haven't heard her talk in english a lot, I can however say that it can't be too bad for german standards, across the street the bakery sells "Donats" and some people at the university give up completely when it comes to english, when we had a single lecture in english, not many spoke perfect english either, I wouldn't even call my own english perfect or very good, especially when talking I simply lack some practice, writing is a lot easier.

And don't we just love to make fun of little girls in the spotlight just because we don't want them to be in the spotlight for whatever reason? At work a colleague told me she hated this talk of "and I want to thank my family and my producer and everybody else etc." so I said "and if she doesn't say that she'll be all over the newspapers the next day about how she is an unthankful ******...." so I guess sometimes it's a lose-lose situation and you just have to focus on those people who called in great numbers to let you win that contest, however stupid it may be to many, many others called to let her win. :shrug:

Ser Clegane

06-03-2010, 13:08

Actually I do not think that her English is really "bad" - her English for singing is just (intentionally?) somewhat weird indeed.

Overall she has been (IMHO derservedly) treated rather well in the media and by the public in general and the fun that has occasionally been made of her certainly did not (in terms of volume and nastiness) go beyond what would be expected for somebody being as much in the spotlight.

Kudos to her for basically giving the finger to "BILD" et al and for keeping her personal life entirely out of the spotlight ~:)

HoreTore

06-03-2010, 14:08

And don't we just love to make fun of little girls in the spotlight just because we don't want them to be in the spotlight for whatever reason? At work a colleague told me she hated this talk of "and I want to thank my family and my producer and everybody else etc." so I said "and if she doesn't say that she'll be all over the newspapers the next day about how she is an unthankful ******...." so I guess sometimes it's a lose-lose situation and you just have to focus on those people who called in great numbers to let you win that contest, however stupid it may be to many, many others called to let her win. :shrug:

I can assure you that her being a little girl has nothing to do with it. She's nothing, just a german with a silly accent that will be forgotten in a matter of weeks.

I reserve most of my hatred for the real satan, Alexander Rybak. I pray every day that someone will shove his fiddle up where the sun never shines.