EB Online Tourney: July 2010 - Special Anniversary Edition

[vartan]

2 points

http://www.filefront.com/16949815/ASMwNoob.rpy
http://www.filefront.com/16949819/ASMwNoob2.rpy

You used the same strategy against me 4 times and it only worked when you axe spammed in the practice games :(...
Was this against Vicious-Little-Noob? I don't want to open those replay files and'd appreciate you telling me before-hand.

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, VLN.

2 More Points

http://www.filefront.com/16950571/ASMwNoob3.rpy
http://www.filefront.com/16950585/ASMwNoob4.rpy

[Intranetusa]

So I finally got EB online working today... any more room? Sign me up for Carthage.


Intranetusa


Btw,
so we have to click "leave network" for tourney network 2 when we are not playing?

[Intranetusa]

I will be proud to represent the might of Carthage in this tourney. Sign me in!

When will you be online? Let's work together to kill some damn dirty Romans!

[vartan]

Btw, so we have to click "leave network" for tourney network 2 when we are not playing?
Ideally, every player would click leave network before signing off. This would make the networks self-sufficient and you could all run your own tourneys this way. One of the only reasons I'm here and people like ASM are here is to purge the networks of lazy or ignorant folk. It's not very hard to right click and click on leave network option. Ignorance is fine and that's why we tell you about the Leave Network option in case anyone isn't aware of it. Good luck in your tourney.

[Apázlinemjó]

Cannot download the second ASM battle replay, I'm sad.

Edit: Problem solved, sent by Vartan, yippie.

[vartan]

Cannot download the second ASM battle replay, I'm sad.
Sent it to you via MSN.

Addendum: If you now go to the Tournament Replay Archive page, and click on 2010 July link, you will see a similar list as that in the OP and now you will also see a constantly updated spreadsheet of the player vs player battle spreadsheet.

[Intranetusa]

Me (Carthage) vs ViciousLittleNoob (Arverni)

Victory for Carthage

http://www.filefront.com/16951757/MPtourneywinCart.rpy

[Jebivjetar]

When will you be online? Let's work together to kill some damn dirty Romans!

Helo! I'm glad to see another Carthaginian player in this tourney!
I'll be online tomorrow. The world shall tremble when we represent the might of Carthage! :knight:

[SlickNicaG69]

@Slick - You are lucky he didn't just go massed Infantry Archer and just sit there so he can shoot you to death.

Yea I guess he couldve gone mass archers, but then again I could've just corner camped to absorb his missles and add a nice juicy burger to go along with that cheese.

[Apázlinemjó]

Yea I guess he couldve gone mass archers, but then again I could've just corner camped to absorb his missles and add a nice juicy burger to go along with that cheese.

Camping in the corner is violating the rules in my opinion.

[SlickNicaG69]

Camping in the corner is violating the rules in my opinion.

Going mass archers is a violation in my opinion, but if its not on the site, it's legal.

[vartan]

Going mass archers is a violation in my opinion, but if its not on the site, it's legal.
There are several fair play rules that are not yet on the site. These will be updated over time, rest assured. As for mass archers, I don't know what that means. What I do know is that the rules (as of this post) have it that on the 36k level, Steppe armies may have a limit of 8 archers and civ armies a limit of 5. 24k games have no such limits (other than for mercs).

[antisocialmunky]

Yea I guess he couldve gone mass archers, but then again I could've just corner camped to absorb his missles and add a nice juicy burger to go along with that cheese.

Then he'd sit there and wait for you to move and only shoot when you move because you missile defense goes down when you move.

Of course he doesn't do that anymore and is generally less annoying then those glory days of yore. :)

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

2 battles against a worthy opponent.


1st ACS(Pahlava) vs Vicious_Little_Noob(Arverni)

winner ACS(Pahlava)

http://www.zshare.net/download/779603228e70709a/

2st ACS(Pahlava) vs Vicious_Little_Noob(Arverni)

winner ACS(Pahlava)

http://www.zshare.net/download/77960355ce1ea0fa/

[Jebivjetar]

I can't log in 'EB Online #2" network and my program is telling me that the network doesn't exist. Could someone post the name of the required hamachi network for tournament battles? Thanx!

[Jack Dionne]

I want to play in the tournament but unfortunately I don’t understand all the aspect of what is required to play with the modded version of EB.

I downloaded a lot of stuff and that is what confuses me a bit.

Can I drag the data folder into the game and drag the old one out and switch them around?

Other wise I won’t be able to participate in the tournament.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Kival]

I will participate although I'm not the most experienced player. I've most of my experience with Quart'Hadasht, so i'd like to play them if that's ok.

[Apázlinemjó]

Pontos vs SPQR

http://www.filefront.com/16959797/T-ApazvsAgrippa.rpy

@Jeb - EB Online #2 -> 041-531-937 and the password is eb.

@Jack - You need a clean/unmodded/untouched EB 1.2 with the modded multiplayer EDU found here -> http://ebonline.tk/ (under the "Getting Started (Instructions)" menu)

[Intranetusa]

Me (Carthage) vs MisterFred (Arabia)

I won, but I forgot to save a replay... =(

[vartan]

Me (Carthage) vs MisterFred (Arabia)

I won, but I forgot to save a replay... =(
Save your battle replays please :book: << so we can have a record

For Jack Dionne:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWfqVcXVEb8

[MisterFred]

Ok, looks like I actually have 3 games to report.

First: MisterFred victory over Kival2 - ToughWin.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16960959/ToughWin.rpy) - Very long, but I manage to not be total fail with cavalry - something new!
Second: MisterFred victory over retep219 ElephantsOverGetai.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16960975/ElephantsOverGetai.rpy) - in which a thunderous charge wins the day for the Saba, but the most notable tactical success are retep's merciless horse archers

Third - I thought I had this replay, but I don't. Intranet's Carthaginians (which he posted about above) did in fact beat my Saba - but there were a number of javelins thrown while their units were in melee, crucially wounding my elephants. Unfortunately, I don't have the replay to review how many volleys (during the game I noticed one clear instance, a second where the order but not the throw may or may not have come before the melee clash, if there were any others, I didn't notice them while frantically giving orders). In any case, it was well-played. Fear intranet if you face him!

[vartan]

Third - I thought I had this replay, but I don't. Intranet's Carthaginians (which he posted about above) did in fact beat my Saba - but there were a number of javelins thrown while their units were in melee, crucially wounding my elephants. Unfortunately, I don't have the replay to review how many volleys (during the game I noticed one clear instance, a second where the order but not the throw may or may not have come before the melee clash, if there were any others, I didn't notice them while frantically giving orders). In any case, it was well-played. Fear intranet if you face him!
I don't have a clear understanding. Are you forfeiting a point to Intranetusa or are you on board with our default policy of it-never-happened because he doesn't have the replay? If it was a tourney battle he would have saved the replay...:inquisitive:

[Intranetusa]

It's up the MisterFred. That battle was a hell of a fight and I barely remember the details. His elephants were tearing up my units left and right - only tons of cavalry micro + a final suicidal cavalry charge brought 'em down, saving my @$$ from a complete rout... :thumbsup:

I'll support his either of his decisions whether to forfeit or discount it due to the lost replay and possible javelin violation.


On another note, I am proud to be the first one to lose to ViciousLittleNoob! :laugh4:
I foolishly left two of my cavalry not engaged (initially I hid em in in trees, then forgot about em till it was too late)...while his well managed cavalry and crazed axemen tore my infantry to shreds...

On another note, I think I should stop using the same unit type for different enemies. The armor-piercing trait that I had carefully selected for so many of my units was apparently useless against his axemen, who wore little armor but had good defense values... :shame:

[vartan]

It's up the MisterFred. That battle was a hell of a fight and I barely remember the details. His elephants were tearing up my units left and right - only tons of cavalry micro + a final suicidal cavalry charge brought 'em down, saving my @$$ from a complete rout... :thumbsup:

I'll support his either of his decisions whether to forfeit or discount it due to the lost replay and possible javelin violation.


On another note, I am proud to be the first one to lose to ViciousLittleNoob! :laugh4:
I foolishly left two of my cavalry not engaged (initially I hid em in in trees, then forgot about em till it was too late)...and his cavalry and crazed axemen tore my guys to shreds...

On another note, I think I should stop using the same unit type for different enemies. The armor-piercing trait that I had carefully selected for so many of my units was apparently useless against his axemen, who wore little armor but had good defense values... :shame:
Hope VLN has the replay for us. I've made my decision. I cannot and shall not allow for the inclusion of the invisible game between Fred and yourself because this would be an unfair exception for you two. It would subliminally encourage such acts and more of these acts would only tip the lever one way or another. These invisible matches would imbalance the factional and individual scores in favour of a person/faction or another. I'm sure you understand what I mean. :book:

[SlickNicaG69]

So charging through one's own loose skirmisher is illegal whether they be in loose or not? Also what about the standard practice of slamming 2 cavalry wings together(as we usually do). I guess that counts as stacked units right?(Your cav loses a fair amount of charge in the process so I couldn't care either way)

Actually you're wrong Monkey. Stacking your units does not diminish your units' cavalry charge at all. Have you ever noticed, when charging stacked cavalry, that many units are still 'charging' despite other soldiers in the unit having already reached home? If anything, it exaggerates the charge by prolonging the amount of time certain units attack with the charge value and enables them to do the damage within the enemy ranks. Must it be then that we are unable to see the wonderful rendition of a unit of infantry holding back numerious cavalry because they refuse to expose their backs and remain firm in order?!

[_Agrippa_]

Me (Roman) vs Kival (Carthage)

winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?botojzxmhmn

[SlickNicaG69]

(YOU GOT ZERO POINTS SLICK! DEAL WITH IT!:clown:)

No Jirisys, I got one! HAHAHAHAHA! :laugh4:

[Kival]

Thanks to agrippa and misterfred for the chance to practice and learn to improve my skills! Clear and well done victroy by you two.

[vartan]

@SlickNicaG69: The extensive charge is a manifestation of the power_charge [sic?] attribute.

@ACS vs. VLN #2: This game is currently under review and may be discarded for violation of fair-play. Violation: Macedonian Phalanx turning whilst engaged.

EDIT: The game is now in fact discarded and a video will soon be displayed showing what not to do regarding pikes. Also, if you are playing SPQR Marian or Imperial, please only bring 1 First Cohort to the field, no matter how many regular cohorts you bring. Thank you.

[Apázlinemjó]

Pontos vs Carthage

http://www.filefront.com/16962051/T-ApazvsKival.rpy

[Kival]

I must admit i had no idea how to fight this army with my one, too much bospheran archers and thracian peltasts for me! But thanks for the match!

[vartan]

I must admit i had no idea how to fight this army with my one, too much bospheran archers and thracian peltasts for me! But thanks for the match!
I'm not sure whether Bosphorans and Thracians are factional right now (they probably are) for Pontos, but they probably won't be in the future. Minor things like this may in the future result in large statistical fluctuation/variation in factional win percentage.

[Apázlinemjó]

I'm not sure whether Bosphorans and Thracians are factional right now (they probably are) for Pontos, but they probably won't be in the future. Minor things like this may in the future result in large statistical fluctuation/variation in factional win percentage.

Bosphorans are, Thracians were mercenaries. Why would you take away them when Mithridates could bring them with himself? ;O

@Kival - Same, Thank you for the match!

[vartan]

Bosphorans are, Thracians were mercenaries. Why would you take away them when Mithridates could bring them with himself? ;O
I can bring Aztecs with me, too, but they're allies/mercs :book:

ACS v VLN #2 discard:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqvRwTOcHdM

[athanaric]

Also, if you are playing SPQR Marian or Imperial, please only bring 1 First Cohort to the field, no matter how many regular cohorts you bring. Thank you.
Yeah, it's called "First Cohort" for a reason.

That phalanx stuff is pretty ridiculous. Apparently some people mistake the Macedonian phalanx for Halberdiers, what with dropping pikes from above. I don't see how that could have worked in real life - forming a sarissa phalanx when already engaged in direct frontal melee. Either the phalanx is formed before the enemy engages, or it's too late and you have to switch to axes.


e: Also, I heard somebody mentioning eight slinger units in one army. That shouldn't be possible even in a fun game...

[Apázlinemjó]

KH and Pontos against Carthage and Arverni

http://www.filefront.com/16962647/T-AAvsVK.rpy

[vartan]

Yeah, it's called "First Cohort" for a reason.

That phalanx stuff is pretty ridiculous. Apparently some people mistake the Macedonian phalanx for Halberdiers, what with dropping pikes from above. I don't see how that could have worked in real life - forming a sarissa phalanx when already engaged in direct frontal melee. Either the phalanx is formed before the enemy engages, or it's too late and you have to switch to axes.


e: Also, I heard somebody mentioning eight slinger units in one army. That shouldn't be possible even in a fun game...
What athanaric said. You can challenge, as you see in the video above. Only 1 1st cohort please.

[antisocialmunky]

Technically with the EB scale on huge, a legion is ~10 units so you shouldn't ahve that restriction. Besides, Celts get eagles for 1400 that are also scary and can spam them if htey so desired.

[vartan]

Technically with the EB scale on huge, a legion is ~10 units so you shouldn't ahve that restriction. Besides, Celts get eagles for 1400 that are also scary and can spam them if htey so desired.
K bring a million 1st cohort for all I care lol. Is it really imba? I mean, casse every other unit inspires the next...

EDIT: ASM with 5 and Apaz with 3 lead the way. Come on guys, time to get ideas! :idea2:

EDIT 2: This it the problem with first cohorts. Won't multiple 1st cohort cause an unfair morale imbalance?

[athanaric]

Besides, Celts get eagles for 1400 that are also scary and can spam them if htey so desired.

They also die like flies from arrow fire, something First Cohorts are not likely to do.

[Kival]

I had a match against Vicious-little-noob alias Viking power. I've won and saved the replay but I'm not totally sure if it was a cleary a tourney match for Viking, he must decide. Nonetheless I've problems to upload by filefront, any alternatives or does anyone like to help me with my problems with filefront?

I've a question to the fairplay rules, what is if a battle has been decided before and than someone violates fair play rules like charging through own men?

[vartan]

I had a match against Vicious-little-noob alias Viking power. I've won and saved the replay but I'm not totally sure if it was a cleary a tourney match for Viking, he must decide. Nonetheless I've problems to upload by filefront, any alternatives or does anyone like to help me with my problems with filefront?

I've a question to the fairplay rules, what is if a battle has been decided before and than someone violates fair play rules like charging through own men?
1) Upload to Mediafire if Filefront doesn't work. Both usually work.

2) I don't understand your question. Could you be a bit more specific and descriptive please? Sorry :(

[Kival]

1) Upload to Mediafire if Filefront doesn't work. Both usually work.

I cannot use mediafire, too. Must be some sort of configuration problem, hmm...


2) I don't understand your question. Could you be a bit more specific and descriptive please? Sorry :(

Let's say we have a battle, obviously player A had won but not all soldiers are running away and player B still fights. Now player a charges with his cavalry through his own men... what's then?

[vartan]

I cannot use mediafire, too. Must be some sort of configuration problem, hmm...
Figure out how to upload it, somewhere, someway.

Let's say we have a battle, obviously player A had won but not all soldiers are running away and player B still fights. Now player a charges with his cavalry through his own men... what's then?
Then you win, you get a point. If the loser challenges, Jury will adjudicate. If it's an obvious win, then the challenge will be overturned. Hope that helps. :sweatdrop:

[Kival]

Can you download the replay: http://www.file-upload.net/download-2649289/viciousvskival.rpy.html ?

[SlickNicaG69]

Actually, I think it should be allowed to allow more than 1 first cohort in the game, but set a limit, say 1 for every 4 legions. The reasoning for this is because, in reality, a roman army usually consisted of several legions, each of which had a first 'cohort' within it. Obviously, one can take the interpretation that the first 'cohort' is actually the first 'legion' by assuming every unit to represent a legion. But if one keeps in mind that the standard number of units for the 'cohort' is 82 men, being the exact number in a Roman century, and that the century is the measuring unit of a cohort, one would be inclined to think it actually represents a 'cohort.' Furthermore, historically the First Cohort was always more numerous, usually 1.5x and reflected in the vanilla mod, but in EB the unit size is the same as that of the regular cohort, reinforcing the idea that it is representative of the first 'cohort' as opposed to the first 'legion.'

Also, as others have said, many barbarian units have many eagle-inspiring troops, such as Celtic druids, etc. These units, historically were actually less numerous than 1st legionary cohorts were, as there usually was one 'unit' of these elite troops, while the rest were usually levees. Thus, wouldn't the same rules apply to the non-Romans? Fairness is all we ask...

[The Celtic Viking]

Also, as others have said, many barbarian units have many eagle-inspiring troops

Err... no. Many Casse units have the inspiring trait, and there's a good reason for that which you can search for if you don't already know. So Casse players don't count.

How many inspiring units have you ever seen non-Casse barbarians bring to the field? Also, how good are those in comparison with the 1st cohorts?

[SlickNicaG69]

Err... no. Many Casse units have the inspiring trait, and there's a good reason for that which you can search for if you don't already know. So Casse players don't count.

Why don't you be like the rest of us, and be humble enough to explain what you assert, rather than haughtingly telling us to look it up, please.


How many inspiring units have you ever seen non-Casse barbarians bring to the field? Also, how good are those in comparison with the 1st cohorts?

I don't think any 'unit' of is as good as a First Legionary Cohort unit and I think that to be accurate. Individually, an Aedui Champion may be stronger and better, but as a collective unit Roman legionarries were alone. That is why they are and should be better in the game. Besides, rules should not be dependent on what a player 'chooses' to do. Rather, what the player chooses to do should depend on the rules.

[athanaric]

Also, as others have said, many barbarian units have many eagle-inspiring troops, such as Celtic druids, etc. These units, historically were actually less numerous than 1st legionary cohorts were, as there usually was one 'unit' of these elite troops, while the rest were usually levees. Thus, wouldn't the same rules apply to the non-Romans? Fairness is all we ask...
Let's see:

Cidainh (80 men on huge) - they are useless in "static" melee. Also vulnerable to missiles.
Uirodosios (160) - unarmoured, as hinted before. For the same price and upkeep the enemy can hire a Kretan archer unit and mow them down. Then move on to other targets.
Gaesatae/Tindanotae (120) - bringing more than one would be ridiculous anyway. Poorly armoured.
Kluddargos (120) - again, you'd see hardly more than one. Quite vulnerable to stones and javelins.
Cwymr (160) - only lightly armoured.
Drwdae (120) - well armoured but lack versatility. Again, a singulary unit type that shouldn't stack with other infantry elites of its kind.
Calawre (120) - see Kluddargos.
Rycalawre (120) - see Drwdae, only better.
Carnute Cingetos (120) - better version of Calawre. More than one per stack is absolutely ridiculous.
Marslugoi Lugjiskoi (120 or so) - armour 3, shield none. Need I say more?


Now, for comparison:

Prima Cohors Reformata (202) - huge shield, full mail panoply, AP javelins, excellent morale. Archers will be ineffective. Slingers will be ineffective from the front and left. Dito for most javelin units.

[antisocialmunky]

The 1st Cohorts thing isn't that big of a deal really. The 'Very Good Stamnia' rating makes them REALLY BLODDY ANNOYING but the eagle doesn't do all that much against Rome's weaknesses: AP and Katas. The Romans already have pretty ridiculous morale anyway so slightly more ridiculous isn't going to make them chain rout much faster especially if it is a fairly small AOE.

Why make eagles restricted for one barb faction when all the other unwashed barbs can have theirs anyway?

[_Agrippa_]

Battle #2 :

Me (Roman) vs Kival (Carthage)

Winner : Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?mjyzyddmj2m

[Jebivjetar]

Mighty Pahlava (general: ACS) vs mighty Carthage (general: Jebivjetar)

Win for mighty Carthage (all hail good old woods! :D )

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2nammt422zn/ACSVsJEBI.rpy

[Apázlinemjó]

Let's see:

Cidainh (80 men on huge) - they are useless in "static" melee. Also vulnerable to missiles.
Uirodosios (160) - unarmoured, as hinted before. For the same price and upkeep the enemy can hire a Kretan archer unit and mow them down. Then move on to other targets.
Gaesatae/Tindanotae (120) - bringing more than one would be ridiculous anyway. Poorly armoured.
Kluddargos (120) - again, you'd see hardly more than one. Quite vulnerable to stones and javelins.
Cwymr (160) - only lightly armoured.
Drwdae (120) - well armoured but lack versatility. Again, a singulary unit type that shouldn't stack with other infantry elites of its kind.
Calawre (120) - see Kluddargos.
Rycalawre (120) - see Drwdae, only better.
Carnute Cingetos (120) - better version of Calawre. More than one per stack is absolutely ridiculous.
Marslugoi Lugjiskoi (120 or so) - armour 3, shield none. Need I say more?

Almost perfect. Gaesatae and Tindanotae don't inspire nearby troops, only frighten enemy infantry.

[athanaric]

Almost perfect. Gaesatae and Tindanotae don't inspire nearby troops, only frighten enemy infantry.
Damn :oops::wall:
My mind automatically grouped them with Uirodosios. Still, I hope my main point got through: all Celtic morale boosters have either a serious weakness (or two) or a very small unit size. Neither is the case with First Cohorts...

[vartan]

Damn :oops::wall:
My mind automatically grouped them with Uirodosios. Still, I hope my main point got through: all Celtic morale boosters have either a serious weakness (or two) or a very small unit size. Neither is the case with First Cohorts...
Since the morale bonus doesn't stack with the eagles, is there still a problem (e.g. huge unit size)? I always figured that was the manpower of Rome.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Pahlava (ACS) vs Kart Hadast (Kival)

winner: Pahlava (ACS)

was good game Kival :juggle2:

http://www.zshare.net/download/78000465d033b8ee/

[SlickNicaG69]

This (http://www.filefront.com/16973657/v.TheJirisys.rpy) (http://www.filefront.com/16973657/v.TheJirisys.rpy) was not an official tournament game, as Jirisys went steepe as Greece, but we thought it would be interesting for others to watch. ;)

[antisocialmunky]

You furgot the link.

[SlickNicaG69]

It's the "This" in the above post...

[vartan]

You furgot the link.
There's a problem with the forum interface. By default, in-line links aren't made bold or underlined unless you hover over them...

[Ghaust the Moor]

Here is my first game
Ghaust the Moor(Saka) Vs. Misterfred (Sab'yn)
As of the moment it was a stalemate (as Misterfred lost connection), but I figured i should submit it for the jury to decide. Imho it was a stale mate and was gonna come down to the individual commander. But I figured what the heck and submit it anyway. If you look at the stats, I had killed more and suffered fewer losses but I was still outnumbered but it was close. I'd like to see what the jury thinks.

[vartan]

Thanks for the replay Ghaust.

If I took off a point for each time a tourney player left Hamachi without leaving the network itself, all tourney players would start leaving network without exception (some might be exception to exception but those would be outliers, thinking they can mess up factional scores).

[Jebivjetar]

If I took off a point for each time a tourney player left Hamachi without leaving the network itself, all tourney players would start leaving network without exception (some might be exception to exception but those would be outliers, thinking they can mess up factional scores).

Vartan the Radical! :D

There is a small problem with Hamachi though: when i play an EB battle and leave the program, my Hamachi list goes blank and i cannot leave the network. Anyway: in that case it's best to turn off the hamachi program and turn it on again: the list is back and then it's possible to leave the network. I'm telling this in case if someone else experienced this problem.

[antisocialmunky]

I wish I could switch to Rome then and never leave ^_^.

[Kival]

After some obersevations I'm curious why Carthie cannot use Celtiberian Skirmishers and Loricati Caetrati in multiplayer?

[WinsingtonIII]

After some obersevations I'm curious why Carthie cannot use Celtiberian Skirmishers and Loricati Caetrati in multiplayer?

It might just be an oversight, but Vartan would know better than I would. Technically, neither are listed under Carthage's units on the EB faction homepage here (https://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_karthadastim_units.html), which I believe is the original basis for these factional lists. However, I think it is possible to petition for units not on those lists to be considered factional as well. Actually, disregard that. If you look at the unit card here (http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php?mp=unit&unit=iberian%20infantry%20loricatii%20caetratii&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any), you will see that the Carthies cannot recruit Loricati Caetrati in campaign in the first place, most likely because the unit shares a model with another unit they can recruit (perhaps Balearic Light Infantry?). Silly engine limitations... I'm assuming this is also the case for the Celtiberian Skirmishers.

@Vartan: Do you want me to take a look at that stalemate replay or did you already come to a ruling?

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, the forum was being difficult and now it won't let me delete either post.

[SlickNicaG69]

After some obersevations I'm curious why Carthie cannot use Celtiberian Skirmishers and Loricati Caetrati in multiplayer?

Because the Carthaginians never conquered Northern Spain.

[WinsingtonIII]

Because the Carthaginians never conquered Northern Spain.

Well, Loricati Caetrati are not a northern unit by any means. I think the model-sharing issue I mentioned earlier is probably the culprit for them. Additionally, the Carthies can recruit Celtiberian Heavy Infantry, which makes me think that it might be a model issue preventing them from recruiting the Celtiberian skirms as well. But perhaps not.

[vartan]

After some obersevations I'm curious why Carthie cannot use Celtiberian Skirmishers and Loricati Caetrati in multiplayer?
WinsingtonIII I believe what Kival may be referring to is that Carthage does not have Celtiberian Skirmishers and Loricati Caetrati on their multiplayer roster. That is, if you open up multiplayer, you won't see those two units in the roster, not that they aren't factional. Units don't need to be factional for Carthage. As you know, Carthage may recruit 75% of its army (15/20) as mercs, the only faction to be able to do so on EB Online.

EDIT: I know Kival. I'm psychic, especially for you. :laugh4:

[Kival]

@Winsington

Hm, I'm quite sure, I've often used Caetrati but It's possible I only hired them as mercaneries. I think Caetrati could possible chare models with the loricati scutari.


Because the Carthaginians never conquered Northern Spain.

But Celtiberian soldiers/mercenaries fought for Quart'Hadasht.

EDIT: Yep, Vartan can read my mind ;-).

[WinsingtonIII]

@Winsington

Hm, I'm quite sure, I've often used Caetrati but It's possible I only hired them as mercaneries. I think Caetrati could possible chare models with the loricati scutari.

Well, they can't share a model with the Scutarii because the Lusotannan can recruit both units. Who knows, maybe it's not a model issue and they were meant to be put into the multiplayer edu but someone forgot.

And thanks Vartan for clarifying the Carthage merc rule, although now I'm curious why Carthage has a factional unit list on the ebonline website...



Here is my first game
Ghaust the Moor(Saka) Vs. Misterfred (Sab'yn)
As of the moment it was a stalemate (as Misterfred lost connection), but I figured i should submit it for the jury to decide. Imho it was a stale mate and was gonna come down to the individual commander. But I figured what the heck and submit it anyway. If you look at the stats, I had killed more and suffered fewer losses but I was still outnumbered but it was close. I'd like to see what the jury thinks.


Thanks for the replay Ghaust, we'll look into it.

[vartan]

And thanks Vartan for clarifying the Carthage merc rule, although now I'm curious why Carthage has a factional unit list on the ebonline website...
You know, what are Carthage to do with the other 25% of their army? Put in citizens of course. These could be citizen soldiers, cavalry, or anything like that. Citizens didn't really make up even 25% of the armies IIRC. :book: But you see the gist of it.

[WinsingtonIII]

You know, what are Carthage to do with the other 25% of their army? Put in citizens of course. These could be citizen soldiers, cavalry, or anything like that. Citizens didn't really make up even 25% of the armies IIRC. :book: But you see the gist of it.

Oh ok, it was a bit unclear to me that the 75% was an actual part of the rule, not just a general historical statement. Just to further clarify, they can use any mercs for the other 75%, even ones they never would have had historical access to? Such as Indian Longbowmen for instance? I guess that makes sense. It's about making your own history to some extent and if Carthage ever expanded that far, they surely would have employed the locals.

[vartan]

Oh ok, it was a bit unclear to me that the 75% was an actual part of the rule, not just a general historical statement. Just to further clarify, they can use any mercs for the other 75%, even ones they never would have had historical access to? Such as Indian Longbowmen for instance? I guess that makes sense. It's about making your own history to some extent and if Carthage ever expanded that far, they surely would have employed the locals.
These aren't reenactments bud. This is just leisurely online play between people who share their love for classical warfare. That's all. If you're looking for reenactments, don't worry. We're also cooking that up in EB Labs (don't ask, really, just don't). Like Blizzard and EB Dev Team I don't give official release dates.

Mercs/Allies mean any non-factional, no matter where they are from. They are usually nearby units because the EB Dev Team made the rosters this way.

We'll get back to you Ghaust/Fred on the "stalemate" when done figuring things out.

[WinsingtonIII]

Haha I'm not looking for reenactments it was just a genuine question about the rules. I figured being on the jury I should know.

[vartan]

Haha I'm not looking for reenactments it was just a genuine question about the rules. I figured being on the jury I should know.
Indeed. But hopefully by the end of this year (or early next year) we'll have possibilities for reenactments. If only LDC can get his new pack out and working on multiplayer hosting :idea2:

[Intranetusa]

holy crap, anti-social muky is kicking everybody's @$$es

[vartan]

holy crap, anti-social muky is kicking everybody's @$$es
Finally, he's doing his job!

[The Celtic Viking]

My first battle in this tournament has been played against Tex, with me as the ultimate victor, despite my formation getting messed up immediately upon movement. Thank you, Tex, for a well fought game.

http://www.filefront.com/16983787/VictoryVSTex.rpy

[MisterFred]

My Tourney battle against The Celtic Viking, in which my general runs away from akontistai, and thus manages to live and save the day. A point for Saba!

SabaVsArverni.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16984235/SabaVsArverni.rpy)

[vartan]

Updated the scores with the last two games (Fred v Celt and Tex v Celt). Total 21 games so far (probably a record considering the first week of the month isn't over yet; it's only the sixth day of the month). Only 1 of those 21 was 2v2 battle, by the way. Also was able to set up proper voice chat, though I only see it being useful for team battles. Or if you don't want to spam the network chat, to spam the voice chat instead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQcif7DjrUY

[Kival]

Had two sucessfull games today:

Misterfred vs Kival

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2654222/mrfredvskival.rpy.html

MisterFred had some connection problems so he gaved up at the end. He says it could count because he was losing but at last the jury must decide. Was a map with two hills but i decided to try to attack misterfred's hill because I was in advantage at that moment...

retep vs Kival

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2654226/Kivalvsretep.rpy.html

Getai lost killed by Cretan archers and Lybi-Phoenician cavalry.

[MisterFred]

Not necessary for the jury to look at the game between Kival and I. It was a clean and clear win for Kival.

[antisocialmunky]

I only beat the same guy 4.5 times(1 was 2 vs 2)

[vartan]

Not necessary for the jury to look at the game between Kival and I. It was a clean and clear win for Kival.
Thanks. You didn't have to, but you saved us time =D and time is gold!

I only beat the same guy 4.5 times(1 was 2 vs 2)
Was that really necessary? (p.s. thanks for doing your job)

[antisocialmunky]

He kept asking for games.

[_Agrippa_]

Battle# 3:
Me (Roman) vs Acs (Phalava)

Winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?kmyy2wiy5im

[SlickNicaG69]

I was wondering if I could request that all battles be set in large scaling... For those who haven't upgraded their computer for over 3 years, it is much too annoying to watch the replays on huge settings.

[vartan]

I was wondering if I could request that all battles be set in large scaling... For those who haven't upgraded their computer for over 3 years, it is much too annoying to watch the replays on huge settings.
There's no rule on it but I think people have (or perhaps should have) known/realized by now that large is preferable. Perhaps they just want to imbalance and overpower their cav regiments.

[MisterFred]

Huge is more fun. Its bigger. And while super-heavy cav might be more powerful, I think light cav is less powerful on huge. Similarly, I think medium & levy infantry are better on huge, while heavy infantry is weaker. So its really a matter of style. Also, eagles and scare effects are slightly less powerful on huge, which I find preferable (same radii, so fewer units fall within the effects' range).

[Burebista]

My first point , 1st for Baktria too i think . Messy battle against VLN.

http://www.filefront.com/16993619/OvidiuVsVicious.rpy

[SlickNicaG69]

Then can people state whether they played on huge or large? 24k or 36k? It would be appreciated...

[WinsingtonIII]

There's no rule on it but I think people have (or perhaps should have) known/realized by now that large is preferable. Perhaps they just want to imbalance and overpower their cav regiments.

Or they just like playing on huge... I don't think everyone who is playing on huge is doing so to give themselves some sort of advantage.

[Apázlinemjó]

Pontos vs Carthage

http://www.filefront.com/16994735/T-ApazvsKival2.rpy

[SlickNicaG69]

Roma v. VLN. http://www.filefront.com/16995279/T2-Romev.Arverni%28vln%29.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16995279/T2-Romev.Arverni%28vln%29.rpy)

Winner: Roma.


Format: 36k / Large.

[Apázlinemjó]

Pontos vs Saba

http://www.filefront.com/16995431/T-ApazvsMrFred.rpy

I had some mistakes in the match, throwing javelins while the unit was in melee and a run-through. We agreed that the score should count and I promised MisterFred a cleaner match next time.

[Ghaust the Moor]

So has the jury come to a decision about me and Misterfreds stalemate match?

[antisocialmunky]

Another win, my first 24K of the tournement too.

http://www.filefront.com/16996633/ASMwKikaz5.rpy

[SlickNicaG69]

Roma v. Kikaz (http://www.filefront.com/16997111/T3-Romav.German.rpy)... http://www.filefront.com/16997111/T3-Romav.German.rpy


Winner: Roma.


Format: 36k / Large.

[MisterFred]

CloseWinSweboz.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16997309/CloseWinSweboz.rpy)

I get revenge for my loss against Sweboz. Again a close match - each time the guy who did worse at skirmishing won, lol.
Also, the game with Apaz wasn't really borderline. While there may have been a few fair play oopsies, the game wasn't close, definite win for him.

[vartan]

So has the jury come to a decision about me and Misterfreds stalemate match?
If you really want news, the game has been decided so far by 1 out of the 4 Jury members (can't say who, but it wasn't me). Thank you for your patience. Be assured you'll be notified of the final decision :book:

[SlickNicaG69]

CloseWinSweboz.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/16997309/CloseWinSweboz.rpy)

I get revenge for my loss against Sweboz. Again a close match - each time the guy who did worse at skirmishing won, lol.
Also, the game with Apaz wasn't really borderline. While there may have been a few fair play oopsies, the game wasn't close, definite win for him.

Actually it was more like a series of badly timed, badly maneuvered cavalry charges, coupled with bad archer usage, lol!


EDIT: I guess this would answer VLN's question on why defense mode sucks so much huh.

[SlickNicaG69]

You know, I remember Munkey complaining about how OP'ed Cohorts were and I noticed something weird:

Cohort: "Roman legionnaires are now uniformly equipped with two pila, a gladius, and an elliptical scutum around 1.28m high. Their main armour still remains a coat of lorica hamata (chain mail) and a Montefortino-type helmet. The high quality of the legions equipment has become one of the great strengths of the Roman infantry, besides their strict discipline. In battle they will throw their pila as soon as the enemy comes in range to soften his formation and then engage at close quarters."


Hellenic Spearmen (Light): "They are well armed and armored for the task, having stout bronze helms, linen armor, an almond shaped thureos shield, heavy javelins, and a stout spear."


The discrepancy I hint at is the linen armor compared with the chainmail and the fact that despite this factual difference - both units have Armour values of 10 in the game...

Also, despite the cohorts being disciplined and highly trained compared with the spearman's mere normal "trained" training... their skill defense is... again equal at 8!!!

Not only that, but consider the fact that despite the spearman's shield being "almond shaped" and the cohorts' being "1.28m," the skill advantage for the cohort is... 1!!!

Even their lethality is the same... despite the gladius being a renowned weapon for causing dreadful wounds and the spear, well, being a spear.


I guess the only true advantage is true as you said Munkey, but I disagree that it is to your detriment...


Heck... I just realized... even phalanx pikes have better shield values than legionnaries... lol. -_-

[vartan]

That's right Slick. Probably my favourite post ever by you as of this writing. You're completely right. But what can we do? Changing stats like that would put the whole system off balance, unfortunately. And also unfortunate is the difficulty in enforcing the no-guard rule.

Currently updating points...will report back...

[NeoSpartan]

WOW! A tourny and I didn't know about it! WTF???????

I need to check these forums more often :(

Well..... don't sing me up yet, I got a crazy work and lifting schedule to deal in the next two weeks.

[NeoSpartan]

You know, I remember Munkey complaining about how OP'ed Cohorts were and I noticed something weird:

Cohort: "Roman legionnaires are now uniformly equipped with two pila, a gladius, and an elliptical scutum around 1.28m high. Their main armour still remains a coat of lorica hamata (chain mail) and a Montefortino-type helmet. The high quality of the legions equipment has become one of the great strengths of the Roman infantry, besides their strict discipline. In battle they will throw their pila as soon as the enemy comes in range to soften his formation and then engage at close quarters."


Hellenic Spearmen (Light): "They are well armed and armored for the task, having stout bronze helms, linen armor, an almond shaped thureos shield, heavy javelins, and a stout spear."


The discrepancy I hint at is the linen armor compared with the chainmail and the fact that despite this factual difference - both units have Armour values of 10 in the game...

Also, despite the cohorts being disciplined and highly trained compared with the spearman's mere normal "trained" training... their skill defense is... again equal at 8!!!

Not only that, but consider the fact that despite the spearman's shield being "almond shaped" and the cohorts' being "1.28m," the skill advantage for the cohort is... 1!!!

Even their lethality is the same... despite the gladius being a renowned weapon for causing dreadful wounds and the spear, well, being a spear.


I guess the only true advantage is true as you said Munkey, but I disagree that it is to your detriment...


Heck... I just realized... even phalanx pikes have better shield values than legionnaries... lol. -_-

There are reasons for these things:
I will start with the simpler ones:

1. Phalanx have high shield value and low armor value to better represent in game the vulnerability phalanxes have to their rear and flanks.

2. A wall of spears is an easy formation to make, and hard for the enemy to break. (which is why it is so common). A wall of spears cannot be easily defeated by a group of sword/spear wielding men in a frontal attack.

3. Roman Cohorts when 1st outfitted were NO better trained than a Theuroporoi. (in fact the reverse may be true) . Hence them having somewhat similar values.
-the historically tough Roman cohorts like Ceasar's, Scipio Africanus', etc that most people are familiar with gained their skill in years of combat experience.

-The same thing occurs when talking about regular Cohorts and Praetorian Cohorts. Most of the time (not always) the only thing that set Praetorian cohorts apart was the fact that you had to be born in Italy to be in them, you got better pay, and no deployments to dangerous provinces.

4. In game code "disciplined and highly trained" attributes affects the Morale Depletion Rate and the Tidiness of the Unit Formation respectively.

[SlickNicaG69]

3. Roman Cohorts when 1st outfitted were NO better trained than a Theuroporoi. (in fact the reverse may be true) . Hence them having somewhat similar values.
-the historically tough Roman cohorts like Ceasar's, Scipio Africanus', etc that most people are familiar with gained their skill in years of combat experience.

-The same thing occurs when talking about regular Cohorts and Praetorian Cohorts. Most of the time (not always) the only thing that set Praetorian cohorts apart was the fact that you had to be born in Italy to be in them, you got better pay, and no deployments to dangerous provinces.

Being equivalent, raw-recruits has no bearing on what the standard armour values should be for each unit. If, you argue, cohorts should have greater exponential growth in stat values as they increase in experience points, then that is a different argument and one which I would probably agree with.

However:
1. Phalanx have high shield value and low armor value to better represent in game the vulnerability phalanxes have to their rear and flanks.

Phalanxes have the exact same armor value as cohorts despite possesing merely a "linen curraiss" (Greek Medium Phalanx)... I mean if their armour value is presented as such to reflect the added resistance of the pikes, then why is the shield value so high (5)?, after all, we all know the phalangite shield was inconveniently hung from the neck by a leather strap...

I was thinking, to continue my previous argument, why isn't "linen = 6," "linen curraiss = 8," and "curraiss = 10." I mean to make the discrepancy even worse, check out the Classical Hoplites: Each hoplite is equipped with linen or leather armor... yet have a basic armour value of 11...


2. A wall of spears is an easy formation to make, and hard for the enemy to break. (which is why it is so common). A wall of spears cannot be easily defeated by a group of sword/spear wielding men in a frontal attack.

This is a common saying, but generally referred to the pike phalanx.



Also check this out from http://www.larp.com/hoplite/linothor.html:


The dominant form of armor in the Persian War era is cuirass or corselet formed by a tubular body section and a yoke over the shoulders, apparently not made of metal. For years we have assumed this was called the linothorax, made of layers of linen glued together. Peter Connolly's reconstructions were the leading force in this interpretation. I basically took Connolly at his word for my own reconstruction, detailed on this page. I also fought against the idea of the linothorax being made of leather, mostly because of the name.

Nick Sekunda seems to be alone with his theory that the "linothorax" was made of iron plates hinged together and covered with linen. This seems to be based on the iron cuirass of Philip II of Macedon, a mid- to late-4th century armor. But that cuirass was not linen-covered, and seems to be simply a translation into iron of the organic corselet we see in artwork.

[SlickNicaG69]

And also unfortunate is the difficulty in enforcing the no-guard rule.

Actually, I think a clear example of a violation using the guard rule can be seen in my win vs VLN http://www.filefront.com/16995279/T2-Romev.Arverni%28vln%29.rpy. He moves close enough with his defense-mode line infantry, and then angles each unit so that a side of each unit intersects my line infantry, engaging them but, of course, in guard mode and not wasting energy. We both lose the same amount of troops so no real advantage, except for the fact that it is a clear "move-through" in guard mode...

I liked pointing that out, as it is a common one I tend to see...

[vartan]

That guard-mode exploit is, like I said, hard to oversee as it requires almost frame-by-frame analysis. It's tedious and impractical from an adjudication standpoint. The unit that idles in guard kills whilst not technically fighting, as far as the engine is concerned. This is why the unit does not fatigue. It is exploitable among any heavy infantry nations.

EDIT: Just about done updating scores. Now updating the spreadsheets. Looks like there have been about 31 games to date.

[Apázlinemjó]

3 defeats in 3 hours, Kikaz had an unlucky series.

[vartan]

3 defeats in 3 hours, Kikaz had an unlucky series.
Look at VLN. I believe he has the highest morale of all players because he's still eager to fight.

EDIT: That is to say, the high kill rate hasn't affected his morale!

[Apázlinemjó]

Look at VLN. I believe he has the highest morale of all players because he's still eager to fight.

EDIT: That is to say, the high kill rate hasn't affected his morale!

Yeah, but he didn't lose 3 matches in 3 hours, Kikaz is more disciplined! :D

[vartan]

Yeah, but he didn't lose 3 matches in 3 hours, Kikaz is more disciplined! :D
He's wavering. Would you guys rather have the Replay Pack (or whatever you'd like to call it) immediately available for download and constantly updated or would you rather I post it on the site at the end of the month? You can still review other people's games as they're public, all available as links on this thread, but I just thought it'd be easier as my syntax is simply: "X-Y-Z.rpy" where X is the number of the game, starting from 1, depending on whether I scored the game sooner than others, where Y is the name of the winner, and where Z is the name of the defeated. In 2v2 cases (of which there is only one as of this writing), you would see: "X-Y1-Y2-Z1-Z2.rpy" where Y1 and Y2 are winners, Z1 and Z2 are the defeated.

[SlickNicaG69]

Roma v. Apázlinemjo. (http://www.filefront.com/17003933/T4-Romav.Pontus.rpy) http://www.filefront.com/17003933/T4-Romav.Pontus.rpy.


Winner: Roma.


Format: 36k / Large.

[Knight of Heaven]

Oh boy this brings me back some memories, all though im tempted to play again online, i cant, i dont have much time to do so. And when i have the time i usualy play The NTW lately.
I just passing by to give good luck to the old folks here. Have fun battles. AAHH nostalgic days :P
RAAAABOOO

[Burebista]

Game 2 Ovidiuhtm vs VLN with no guard mode agreement . Winner of a nice battle . http://www.filefront.com/17004671/ohtmvsVLN2.rpy

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Two bloody battles:

ACS(Pahlava)_VS_Kival(Kart-Hadast)

winner ACS

http://www.zshare.net/download/78114797235f59de/



ACS(Pahlava)_VS_Apazlinemjo(Pontos)

winner ACS

http://www.zshare.net/download/781147714c46a81f/

[Apázlinemjó]

Pontos vs SPQR

http://www.filefront.com/17011827/T-ApazvsSlick.rpy

Slick says I had run throughs, so we need a Jury to check the replay.

[SlickNicaG69]

Pontos vs SPQR

http://www.filefront.com/17011827/T-ApazvsSlick.rpy

Slick says I had run throughs, so we need a Jury to check the replay.

Since Apaz had the nerve to post it, I will explain what he did wrong. Specifically look at the cavalry run-through on the Roman right flank. Despite the rule that states one may only run-through when surrounded, he runs through my infantry though he is yet to be completely surrounded... there is still his own line infantry to his back and left and a small gap to his left... as I proceed with my infantry to close the gap, and hence, conclude the surround, he proceeds to run through my, as yet to complete the surround infantry and his own greek hoplites... this to me is a clear violation...

First of all, a surround CAN ONLY be fair to the surrounding player, IF the surround is allowed to be completely engaged, meaning every unit involved in the surround (both surrounded and surrounder) is engaged... otherwise, we would continually see what happened in this game, where a unit, ANTICIPATING the surround, runs-through the unit or units that haven't fully engaged with it, causing its casualty rate be practically untouched... To know what I'm talking about, check out his cavalry running away from mine, and although my units are right behind, they dont kill his units, properly, until they are engaged, not while moving towards them (an unfortunate mod mechanic that is the cause for the rule no?).

Second, even if completely engaged and surrounded, and you are pinned between your own line and the opposing line, you can't cheat and run-through your own line as cavalry... Doesn't this fit in with the whole stampede thing? I agree that 'stampeding' should be allowed for irrelevant positioning/moving, but when it allows a player to conveniently avoid a tactical defeat, it is a violation. This was very frustrating to me in the game, as my units, when proceeding to chase after his cavalry, some were stuck in the midst of his hoplites, while his cavalry runs for the hills...


I totally disagree with the 'I get to run-through because I'm surrounded' rule - to me, it's cheesy and utterly unrealistic. However, if, I assume, it was made to simulate a courageous break-through (something that further prolongs my bias as this rationally can only be done with square infantry...) and it must be in the game, I expect it not to exploit the game mechanics. Surrounded should mean completely surrounded and engaged, not merely surrounded and looking at each other.

Replay: (http://www.filefront.com/17012285/NoobCavRT%21%21%21.rpy) http://www.filefront.com/17012285/NoobCavRT%21%21%21.rpy


*Also, shortly after this event, he stack charges his cavalry onto my Gallic Nobles... he does this twice in the same retreat maneuver...


*And please, update the roster list! I can't believe out of all the factions, Romans seem to have the least faction units... Scythian nobles are Steepe units... I'm tired of these hybrid factions with phalanxes and steepe cataphracts...


*Also, I would like to officially protest the heavy cavalry rule violation... he has 5: 3 Scythian Nobles and 2 Thrakain Successors:

# 341 (mp edu script)
type hellenistic cavalry prodromoithrakioi
dictionary hellenistic_cavalry_prodromoithrakioi ; Thraikioi Prodromoi
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Light_1
soldier hellenistic_cavalry_prodromoi, 25, 0, 1
mount saddle horse light
mount_effect elephant -1, chariot +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation 1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 34, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 180 ,0.38
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 11, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.12
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -1
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 3013, 753, 109, 290, 3013
ownership dacia

[The Celtic Viking]

I fought a battle against Apazlinemjo's Pontos, and scored a Celtic victory. A well-fought battle, no cheats, no exploits used... just a regular battle, nothing to see here... *whistles innocently*

No, I'm just kidding, of course. The replay can be found through the link below.

http://www.filefront.com/17012339/VsApazlinemjo.rpy

[SlickNicaG69]

I fought a battle against Apazlinemjo's Pontos, and scored a Celtic victory. A well-fought battle, no cheats, no exploits used... just a regular battle, nothing to see here... *whistles innocently*

No, I'm just kidding, of course. The replay can be found through the link below.

http://www.filefront.com/17012339/VsApazlinemjo.rpy


For some weird reason, I am glad to see the run-through exploit was taken as a dose of his own medicine...

[Apázlinemjó]

@Slick: Well, my cavalry was between three of your units, I was exiting at the last free side, then the Scythians were completely surrounded by an arriving cohort, I escaped through the thinest place, sadly one of my cavalry hit my own hoplites too. If the Jury decides it's a run-through and doesn't give the point, then fine by me.

About the gallic nobles getting attacked by "stacked" cavalry. You know that's not true, the Scythians turned their back and attacked your horses, but since they went into the same direction they hit eachothers' side in the process.

Scythian nobles are factionals for Pontos (check the EB and the EBonline site), they aren't cataphracts, you know that too.

It's okay if you cuss at me, but at the spectator too...where were your manners?

[vartan]

Slick, class is used for single player campaign AI recruitment purposes. Don't look at the in-game tags when it comes to determining heavy status. We tell you which ones are heavy. Thracian Prodromoi are not heavy cavalry. Scythian Noble Cavalry are heavy cavalry.

[SlickNicaG69]

@Slick: Well, my cavalry was between three of your units, I was exiting at the last free side, then the Scythians were completely surrounded by an arriving cohort, I escaped through the thinest place, sadly one of my cavalry hit my own hoplites too. If the Jury decides it's a run-through and doesn't give the point, then fine by me.

About the gallic nobles getting attacked by "stacked" cavalry. You know that's not true, the Scythians turned their back and attacked your horses, but since they went into the same direction they hit eachothers' side in the process.

Scythian nobles are factionals for Pontos (check the EB and the EBonline site), they aren't cataphracts, you know that too.

It's okay if you cuss at me, but at the spectator too...where were your manners?


I wasn't cussing at anybody... I said... "F*$K! You just cost me a point!"... I wasn't insulting you, so please don't feel offended. It's just plain natural emotion.

And, if you understood anything I stated in my previous post, your cavalry was never truly surrounded as you ran through your own and my infantry... the proper play would've been engaging the infantry unit that was enclosing you, and if engaged and then unable to break-through, use the cheap run-through. Regardless, you admit to running through your own infantry line, and not just a portion but a whole unit!, which is a clear violation.

[SlickNicaG69]

Slick, class is used for single player campaign AI recruitment purposes. Don't look at the in-game tags when it comes to determining heavy status. We tell you which ones are heavy. Thracian Prodromoi are not heavy cavalry. Scythian Noble Cavalry are heavy cavalry.

Scythians still are steepe units so would be mercenary to Pontus... kinda like how Thracians are mercenaries to Pontus...

And, lol, why is it used for sp only... That makes no sense... it is the game's natural setting for the units... why do you think it says 'Heavy Cavalry' in description in game???

[The Celtic Viking]

For some weird reason, I am glad to see the run-through exploit was taken as a dose of his own medicine...

Are you saying that I made run-throughs? Because if I did, I didn't notice it, and neither did Apaz. I'll leave it to the judges.


It's okay if you cuss at me, but at the spectator too...where were your manners?

Yeah. Throwing a tantrum because you lost and calling us "******* noobs" etc. should definitely be against that whole online etiquette thing. It's just a game, after all, and we're supposed to be playing this to have fun. Acting like you did destroys the mood for everyone involved, and no amount of run-throughs or other rule violations excuses such behaviour.

[Burebista]

A win against Mr Fred http://www.filefront.com/17013363/no3OhtmVsMrFred.rpy

Sadly i missed my chance to make it a 2-0 by the skin of my teeth in a later 24 k game

[MisterFred]

I (barely) got revenge for two 36k losses with two 24k wins:

Cloooooose.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17013561/Cloooooose.rpy) : Saba takes a point back from Ovidiuhtm/Burebista*
24kwin.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17013577/24kwin.rpy) : Saba takes a point back from Vicious Little Noob

*Edit in response to Celtic Viking's post below: sorry for getting confused Celtic Viking. That was kind of bizarre.

[The Celtic Viking]

I (barely) got revenge for two 36k losses with two 24k wins:

Cloooooose.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17013561/Cloooooose.rpy) : Saba takes a point back from The Celtic Viking

What? I can't check that replay now but I can only remember that we've played one tourney battle (which you won and posted before). I know we've played friendlies since, but none of those with Saba vs Arverni, so you shouldn't have confused them.

Are you sure that you didn't mean someone else?

[vartan]

What? I can't check that replay now but I can only remember that we've played one tourney battle (which you won and posted before). I know we've played friendlies since, but none of those with Saba vs Arverni, so you shouldn't have confused them.

Are you sure that you didn't mean someone else?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AspgdrJqBnJBdEZCLUxmR1dSSWc5ZllXQWJScmFqbmc&hl=en
You've lost to Fred twice.

Moved to a new server since the last host was giving some ftp problems. We should be fine within the hour. Let me know if any links are broken, etc.

EDIT: CelticViking, check this: http://www.zshare.net/download/781435838830905a/
Read its description for more info.

[The Celtic Viking]

Is that counting the one I asked about? Because, again, I have absolutely no memory of fighting him more than once for the tournament, and I *know* we didn't even fight Arverni vs Saba since. I'll check the replay later when I can do so, because this is creepy; I know I had alcohol in my system yesterday, but not to a blackout level.

Edit: wait, is it possible you're counting one in which I spectated? I know I spectated a part of Fred's battle against VLN, but that couldn't be it, could it?


*Edit in response to Celtic Viking's post below: sorry for getting confused Celtic Viking. That was kind of bizarre.

Heh, I'm just glad to know you're thinking of me. :grin:

[vartan]

Is that counting the one I asked about? Because, again, I have absolutely no memory of fighting him more than once for the tournament, and I *know* we didn't even fight Arverni vs Saba since. I'll check the replay later when I can do so, because this is creepy; I know I had alcohol in my system yesterday, but not to a blackout level.

Edit: wait, is it possible you're counting one in which I spectated? I know I spectated a part of Fred's battle against VLN, but that couldn't be it, could it?
You fought two battles against Fred for the tourney as of this writing, and they are found in that archive file.

[The Celtic Viking]

Thank you, Vartan, I'll check them out when I can. I'd like to know my own battles. :shrug:

[vartan]

Pontos vs SPQR

http://www.filefront.com/17011827/T-ApazvsSlick.rpy

Slick says I had run throughs, so we need a Jury to check the replay.
Link/Download doesn't work.

[vartan]

I (barely) got revenge for two 36k losses with two 24k wins:

Cloooooose.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17013561/Cloooooose.rpy) : Saba takes a point back from Ovidiuhtm/Burebista*
24kwin.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17013577/24kwin.rpy) : Saba takes a point back from Vicious Little Noob

*Edit in response to Celtic Viking's post below: sorry for getting confused Celtic Viking. That was kind of bizarre.
Should have made a new post, not an edit. I just saw this...right now...:furious3: myself.
By the way that was messed up. Was that Burebista game 24k? cause if it wasn't, Baktria has too many missiles.

[The Celtic Viking]

Edit: outdated post. Never mind. Good to know I'm not crazy, though. :laugh4:

[MisterFred]

Heh. Sorry for the confusion. You just had to update your spreadsheet in THAT half hour :).

And yeah, the Burebista game is definitely 24k - otherwise I also have way too many missiles, heh. It was an interesting match. I think he'd have won if he'd never fired an arrow with his longbowmen and straight charged me. Then again, my levy spearmen wouldn't have been worn down yet. I still thought I was going to lose until his cataphract-general finally got tired and I managed to run him down.

As for the Apaz game, the link worked for me. Good game. I think the red army was lucky Apaz got bored and separated his phalanx and attacked, otherwise it wouldn't even have been close since most of the red army was bound and determined to stay out of the fight until that point.

[_Agrippa_]

Battle #4:

ME (Roman) vs Kikaz (Sweboz)

Winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?i3uimmwzwj0

[vartan]

Heh. Sorry for the confusion. You just had to update your spreadsheet in THAT half hour :).

And yeah, the Burebista game is definitely 24k - otherwise I also have way too many missiles, heh. It was an interesting match. I think he'd have won if he'd never fired an arrow with his longbowmen and straight charged me. Then again, my levy spearmen wouldn't have been worn down yet. I still thought I was going to lose until his cataphract-general finally got tired and I managed to run him down.

As for the Apaz game, the link worked for me. Good game. I think the red army was lucky Apaz got bored and separated his phalanx and attacked, otherwise it wouldn't even have been close since most of the red army was bound and determined to stay out of the fight until that point.
You cannot have too many missiles even if you want to, because you play as Saba. Saba is not subject to unit type limits, both at the 24k and 36k levels. I've updated all the spreadsheets, sites, and original post of this thread.

EDIT: I need your replay Apaz. Your link isn't working for me. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Email it to my contact if you want.

[Kikaz]

Battle #4:

ME (Roman) vs Kikaz (Sweboz)

Winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?i3uimmwzwj0

I do think the judges should review this one. There were some violations on both sides I think.

[_Agrippa_]

I do think the judges should review this one. There were some violations on both sides I think.

see that no violation has not been made on my part, attacking the archers were removed to make room for cavalry, the point is regular

[Kival]

Kikaz vs Kival

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2660361/Kikazvskival.rpy.html

Kival won, but kikaz has seen some violation by me. I charged - unintentionally - through my own men (that I've to admit) but I do no really think it was decisive because it was after the decision. But I'll look it up for myself if i have any spare time so I'll perhaps accept his protest then on my own.

[SlickNicaG69]

Re: Roma v. Apaz.


https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1158/cavrunthrough.th.jpg (https://img204.imageshack.us/i/cavrunthrough.jpg/)

Notice the exploit: My men haven't completely surrounded and engaged, allowing him to conveniently march through my men without taking damage since I'm still 'marching,' which actually should be 'chasing while hacking off their legs...'




https://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4016/cavrunthrough2.th.jpg (https://img696.imageshack.us/i/cavrunthrough2.jpg/)

Is this really legal? Seriously. No, for real, seriously.





https://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3073/cavrunthrough3.th.jpg (https://img149.imageshack.us/i/cavrunthrough3.jpg/)

Come on man! If those big, fat horses can make it through why can't you?!... Ever heard of slim fast??

*The 20 next to the hoplites got stuck as they were chasing the cavalry through the hoplites... the other 70 are ahead chucking the pila...





https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2776/stackingdefensemode.th.jpg (https://img52.imageshack.us/i/stackingdefensemode.jpg/)

Stacking in defense mode... now that is just... wrawng daawg...

[vartan]

https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2776/stackingdefensemode.jpg (https://img52.imageshack.us/i/stackingdefensemode.jpg/)

Stacking in defense mode... now that is just... wrawng...
Apaz are these guys in guard mode?

EDIT #1: Agrippa vs Kikaz is not even subtly invalid. Will update with notes/shots.

EDIT #2: https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B8pgdrJqBnJBZmI3YmFmZGYtNzFhNi00Mjg3LTk2MmYtNzE1MThiMmJhMTM3&hl=en
View that presentation for an illustration of fair play violations, taken directly from Agrippa vs Kikaz.

[antisocialmunky]

Don't be mean.

[vartan]

Seems you hate to lose slick, and better yet, you whine like a little girl for it

~Jirisys ( )
You're breaking a forum rule here. Or two, perhaps.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?112579-Forum-Rules
Bullet points 4 and 6.

Don't be mean.
What the munky said.

[Tuuvi]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to play a tournament battle yet due to lack of time, but I'm a little confused about guard mode, is it now against the rules?

[vartan]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to play a tournament battle yet due to lack of time, but I'm a little confused about guard mode, is it now against the rules?
No. It isn't on the site's rules of engagement :)
And good luck. You probably won't need to find time as much as you'll need to make time, if my English is good for anything.

[Tuuvi]

Ok thank you. And your English is fine I understood what you meant perfectly. There are times when I'm doing something but I could be playing in the tournament instead...:sweatdrop:

[vartan]

Ok thank you. And your English is fine I understood what you meant perfectly. There are times when I'm doing something but I could be playing in the tournament instead...:sweatdrop:
Trust me, you'd much rather be doing something else than be playing in the tournament. Unless that something else is really unnecessary and a waste of time. Then playing the tournament wouldn't seem like such an inefficient use of time.

[Apázlinemjó]

@Vartan: only the Thracians probably, gonna send you the replay via e-mail.

Edit: Nope, I was wrong, the guard mode was turned off at both of them.

[Ludens]

:stop:

For the second time: keep it friendly.

It's fine to criticise the tactics of others, as long as you keep it constructive. If you can't say it nicely don't say it at all.

Now let's get back to discussing the tournament.

[MisterFred]

The good news is that the tourney has been pretty darn popular. And in some cases, quite unpredictable. I've won and lost games I did not expect to win or lose, after seeing the unit compositions. (Especially against those tricksy Arverni players,)

[VikingPower]

Here are mine victories with Averni in a right time order:

VLN v.s Intranetusa

http://www.filefront.com/17023505/VLN-Intranetusa.rpy

There was no claim of illegal violation in this battle.

VLN v.s SlickNica

http://www.filefront.com/17023541/VLN-Slick.rpy

Slick, like usual, claims that mine units had a run-through, but however when I looked upon the replay film then I did not notice anything noteworthy at first sight.

VLN v.s MisterFred – First battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023557/VLN-MrFred.rpy

MisterFred claims, and I believe is correct, that mine skirmishers threw missles against his elephants while the skirmishers were engaged in melee with his units, but for mine part I think it was rather brief moment in the battles which did not have much bearings against the elephants because the ele left them so soon. But that is of course mine opinion.

VLN v.s ACS – third battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023583/VLN-ACS.rpy

In this battle I deployed chariots for second time in tournament and I honestly made an illegal victory, because mine chariots in loose formation were always running through mine infantry repeatedly. However for mine part I had forgotten the rule about the chariots so I really was not thnking about it in the battle.

VLN v.s ACS – second battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023603/VLN-ACS2.rpy

In this battle I deployed chariots for the second time against ACS and won another victory but it is rather on the limit of being illegal, or already crossed over the line in being illegal. For in this battle I tried to keep the chariots in loose formation away from mine infantry but however when attacked the cataphracts then It was so hard to keep tracks on all issues in battle at the same time that mine chariots tended to attack cataphracts between mine own infantry so it would have killed mine inf with it in reality. Also in beginning of battle I made one chariot unit run through mine slingers on the way toward enemy horse archers, but this was however rather casual at no critical moment but only a few second shortcut.

The thing is that I can‘t defeat enemy cataphracts without chariots and I can‘t win legally with chariots, because someway or another then mine chariots always tend to have some run-throughs with mine own units.

VLN v.s MisterFred – Second battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023641/VLN-MrFred2.rpy

There was no claim of illegal violation in this battle.

And finally I thank Intranetusa, ACS, and MisterFred for a simple honest games which were without any bias or petty complaints.

[Burebista]

A victory against Mr Fred . Fun game.Zerg game:)
http://www.filefront.com/17023999/no4OhtmVsMrfred.rpy

[vartan]

VLN v.s SlickNica

http://www.filefront.com/17023541/VLN-Slick.rpy
Did this take place before today (10 July 2010) or did it take place today? If today, then it does not count, I'm afraid, as SlickNicaG69 is out of the tournament for failure to comply with common etiquette "rules", if you will.

VLN v.s MisterFred – First battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023557/VLN-MrFred.rpy

MisterFred claims, and I believe is correct, that mine skirmishers threw missles against his elephants while the skirmishers were engaged in melee with his units, but for mine part I think it was rather brief moment in the battles which did not have much bearings against the elephants because the ele left them so soon. But that is of course mine opinion.
This begs the question, aimed at you Fred: Are you asking for this replay to be reviewed by all 4 of us on the Jury? Remember, we only need 3 reviews to make a decision. If you think it's subtle enough, then I could review it when I make time and make a quick decision.

[MisterFred]

In the first battle with VLN, I think the javelins thrown in melee were significant enough to potentially alter the game. I'm not specifically asking for a certain review procedure. One juror is enough for me. I don't have any pretensions the point is going to help propel me to the top of the leaderboard :). Although if only one juror reviews the battle VLN might prefer it be someone other than you, you're pretty strict :). In the second battle with VLN, he just plain kicked my ass.

As a side note, I think all the games VLN just posted took place prior today.

[The Celtic Viking]

http://www.filefront.com/17025645/vsKikaz.rpy

That's my battle against Kikaz' Germanic horde. My cavalry saved the day in a battle where my infantry was faltering.

[vartan]

I'll get started ASAP on the VLN issue. Ghaust/Fred, I still am waiting for one more Jury review of your game. Bear with us please. And Ludens, or any colleagues of Ludens, you know precisely what to do, and you do it real damn well. Thanks in advance ;)

EDIT #1: And I completely forgot, if you people actually give a pluck about multiplayer EB gaming and aren't just trolling around, please don't do the following:

https://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3735/screenshot1lmo.jpg

I mean it. Don't. Not only will you kill it for yourselves, but for everyone else (who for the most part are very respectful of myself, others, and most importantly, themselves).

EDIT #2: VLN, I'll count your game with Slick. I don't think it matters if you played with him today. You earn your victory, you get a point. To not give you that point would be to do you a disservice.

[Intranetusa]

Carthage still needs to beat the sh*t out of Romanii.

[Macilrille]

Slickniga and Burebista; you should keep that sort of language to private chats. The org is not a chatroom and you are both violating the rules of this place with your language and personal insults.

[Kival]

Kikaz vs Kival

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2660361/Kikazvskival.rpy.html

Kival won, but kikaz has seen some violation by me. I charged - unintentionally - through my own men (that I've to admit) but I do no really think it was decisive because it was after the decision. But I'll look it up for myself if i have any spare time so I'll perhaps accept his protest then on my own.

After i watched it I do not think it was important... I had such a big cav advantage at that moment and i think the game was decided before.

[antisocialmunky]

Guard mode archers are really annoying.

Is there anyway we can ban guard mode archers attacking the unit attacking htem?

[MisterFred]

Two fun games with Lignator, where I abuse the speed of Ethiopian Cavalry:

SabaOvPontos.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17038259/SabaOvPontos.rpy) - in which Saba earns a point by luring Pontic skirmishers away from the phalanx near the Amu Darya.
Forest24kWin.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17038265/Forest24kWin.rpy) - in which the stronger right wing of the Saba army is broken by stout Galatian resistance, but rest of the Pontic army is put to flight by the Ethiopian cavalry under the boughs of the Judean forest, resulting in another point for Saba.

[vartan]

Guard mode archers are really annoying.

Is there anyway we can ban guard mode archers attacking the unit attacking htem?
Yeah. You ought not to shoot bows when a person is slashing at you with his longsword. I probably forgot to mention that on the site. Really, if you list all these things on the site you'd have another Wiki. Too many darn little issues.

Two fun games with Lignator, where I abuse the speed of Ethiopian Cavalry:

SabaOvPontos.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17038259/SabaOvPontos.rpy) - in which Saba earns a point by luring Pontic skirmishers away from the phalanx near the Amu Darya.
Forest24kWin.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17038265/Forest24kWin.rpy) - in which the stronger right wing of the Saba army is broken by stout Galatian resistance, but rest of the Pontic army is put to flight by the Ethiopian cavalry under the boughs of the Judean forest, resulting in another point for Saba.
I'm assuming these are vs. Apaz.

[Apázlinemjó]

I'm assuming these are vs. Apaz.

Hey-hey, I wasn't even online yesterday! :laugh4:

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm assuming these are vs. Apaz.

Why would you do that? Lignator is on the list for Pontos, you know. ~;)

[vartan]

Why would you do that? Lignator is on the list for Pontos, you know. ~;)
I'm sorry Lignator. I simply have been more and more away from the computer and soon enough I'll be completely gone, maybe for good. But so far I've yet to see Lignator online, that's where my assumption arose from. Sorry. :shame:

Editing just to mention that as of this writing, the top three gamers so far are:

ViciousLittleNoob with 16 battles
MisterFred with 15 battles
and Kival with 12 battles

Congratulations to you three. I thought you deserved some sort of praise. :grin2:

Editing a second time to say that for those who like to review replays for examples to learn and to study how others play, I have uploaded the 46 tourney battles that have been played as of this writing. Download it at the following link:

http://www.filefront.com/17039277/2010_7.7z

And just a note: that archive only includes validated tourney games, not the few games that are currently under adjudication. Just wanted to be clear. Thanks everybody.

[_Agrippa_]

Battle #6

Me (Roman) vs Retador (Ptolemaioi)

Winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?4mntmnnjzz3

[vartan]

Battle #6

Me (Roman) vs Retador (Ptolemaioi)

Winner: Agrippa

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?4mntmnnjzz3
Retador isn't playing with us.

[vartan]

The EB Online network #2 which accommodates our tournament players is now on an approval-only basis. For this reason, all tournament players who wish to play on the reserved #2 network must sign up with Hamachi HERE, attach their Hamachi app to their account (you may find this under System menu in Hamachi app; you may or may not need to log in HERE at LogMeIn to confirm your Hamachi app), and proceed to join the network #2 as you would normally. It will send a join request, which I (or designated Hamachi officer, Antisocialmunky as of this writing) will accept at the LogMeIn website, at which point you will be ready to play on #2. You may also of course play on #1, of course as long as there is space available (usually should be space; EB MP isn't too popular compared to most multiplayer games).

[MisterFred]

Retador simply didn't sign up for the tournament, to my knowledge. He's a fun player to play against, as I can attest.

[Lazy O]

I would like to enter as Arche Seleukia

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

VLN v.s ACS – third battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023583/VLN-ACS.rpy

In this battle I deployed chariots for second time in tournament and I honestly made an illegal victory, because mine chariots in loose formation were always running through mine infantry repeatedly. However for mine part I had forgotten the rule about the chariots so I really was not thnking about it in the battle.

VLN v.s ACS – second battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023603/VLN-ACS2.rpy

In this battle I deployed chariots for the second time against ACS and won another victory but it is rather on the limit of being illegal, or already crossed over the line in being illegal. For in this battle I tried to keep the chariots in loose formation away from mine infantry but however when attacked the cataphracts then It was so hard to keep tracks on all issues in battle at the same time that mine chariots tended to attack cataphracts between mine own infantry so it would have killed mine inf with it in reality. Also in beginning of battle I made one chariot unit run through mine slingers on the way toward enemy horse archers, but this was however rather casual at no critical moment but only a few second shortcut.

The thing is that I can‘t defeat enemy cataphracts without chariots and I can‘t win legally with chariots, because someway or another then mine chariots always tend to have some run-throughs with mine own units.

VLN v.s MisterFred – Second battle

http://www.filefront.com/17023641/VLN-MrFred2.rpy

There was no claim of illegal violation in this battle.

And finally I thank Intranetusa, ACS, and MisterFred for a simple honest games which were without any bias or petty complaints.

@VLN Thank you VLN for being honest and worthy opponent.
But this isn't your mistake, it is a jury mistake.

Then the rules allowed chariots to run through own infantry... :book:
Well, i'm a bit disappointed about the way jury is working.
2 battle: chariots run in the middle of own infantry for at least 4 times.
Everytime this caused the routing of my engaged infantry.
So the wrong movement strongly influenced the battle outcome.

Then, is this allowed?

[Kival]

Retador isn't playing with us.

Not? He told me he signed up, yesterday. At least I understood him that way.

[vartan]

@VLN Thank you VLN for being honest and worthy opponent.
But this isn't your mistake, it is a jury mistake.

Then the rules allowed chariots to run through own infantry... :book:
Well, i'm a bit disappointed about the way jury is working.
2 battle: chariots run in the middle of own infantry for at least 4 times.
Everytime this caused the routing of my engaged infantry.
So the wrong movement strongly influenced the battle outcome.

Then, is this allowed?
Please do not speak on behalf of the Jury. Those games are valid until you yourself tell us that for such and such a reason, such and such a game should be invalidated. Do you wish to challenge any particular game?
EDIT: Talked to you. Fixing it now. VLN should let me know if he thinks he deserves the two points, but I gather that you've talked to each other.


Not? He told me he signed up, yesterday. At least I understood him that way.
He didn't sign up here. Do you see his name here in this thread anywhere?

EDIT: You do not need an account with Hamachi. I just found out today. Join as you would regularly, and I will accept your join request. Sorry for the inconvenience. We're doing this because of recent incidents.

[President]

Hi, I would like to play in the tournament as the mighty Getai.

[vartan]

Hi, I would like to play in the tournament as the mighty Getai.
You're in. Welcome to EB Online.

EDIT: Just opened up #2 again. Please don't make me turn it back to approval-only basis.

[President]

1. Getai v. ACS: (http://www.filefront.com/17066455/P1-v.ACS%28Pahlava%29.rpy) http://www.filefront.com/17066455/P1-v.ACS%28Pahlava%29.rpy

Winner: Getai

2. Getai v. ACS: (http://www.filefront.com/17066465/P2-v.ACS%28Pahlava%29.rpy) http://www.filefront.com/17066465/P2-v.ACS%28Pahlava%29.rpy

Winner: Getai.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

ACS (pahlava) vs President(Getai)

winner: ACS (Pahlava)

http://www.zshare.net/download/78323664b044dd6e/

[WinsingtonIII]

@VLN Thank you VLN for being honest and worthy opponent.
But this isn't your mistake, it is a jury mistake.

Then the rules allowed chariots to run through own infantry... :book:
Well, i'm a bit disappointed about the way jury is working.
2 battle: chariots run in the middle of own infantry for at least 4 times.
Everytime this caused the routing of my engaged infantry.
So the wrong movement strongly influenced the battle outcome.

Then, is this allowed?

How can the jury make a mistake when no one ever asked us to review the game? We never gave a pronouncement on the game. If you want us to review a game and give a verdict, all you have to do is ask. But please don't expect us to watch every game posted here looking for rule-breaking when no one has asked us to review those games.

Do you want us to review the game or not?

[vartan]

How can the jury make a mistake when no one ever asked us to review the game? We never gave a pronouncement on the game. If you want us to review a game and give a verdict, all you have to do is ask. But please don't expect us to watch every game posted here looking for rule-breaking when no one has asked us to review those games.

Do you want us to review the game or not?
We're not reviewing that game. Nor are we tolerating such offense as that by ACS (don't worry, he was misunderstanding and 99.99% of the time he's a great guy; he cooks real well, too, by the way). The lesson is just: don't offend.

[Lazy O]

Arche Seleukia (LazyO) vs Qath Hadastim (kival)

winner= LazyO

Naked Infantry are supermen

http://rapidshare.com/files/407038146/Lazy_vsKivalw.rpy

[Kival]

Arche Seleukia (LazyO) vs Qath Hadastim (kival)

winner= LazyO

Naked Infantry are supermen

http://rapidshare.com/files/407038146/Lazy_vsKivalw.rpy

It was a nice game although some rules were violated.

I've looked up the replay and I'm sorry to say but i think lazy made some decisive rule violations here. At first i thought it was only a minor problem, but his cavalry charge through my own men rooted my line:

https://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3711/rometw2010071514350153.th.png (https://img693.imageshack.us/i/rometw2010071514350153.png/)



And I've a question, is it allowed to charge with infantry through pike-phalanx?

EDIT: Deleted second image. Another image was meant.

[Apázlinemjó]

This is a straight run-through, not even an accident, I'm sure the Jury will have some words about that.

You can't charge through pikemen (even if they aren't in phalanx mode).

[WinsingtonIII]

It was a nice game although some rules were violated.

I've looked up the replay and I'm sorry to say but i think lazy made some decisive rule violations here. At first i thought it was only a minor problem, but his cavalry charge through my own men rooted my line:

I'll take a look at it and let Vartan know when he's awake.


We're not reviewing that game. Nor are we tolerating such offense as that by ACS (don't worry, he was misunderstanding and 99.99% of the time he's a great guy; he cooks real well, too, by the way). The lesson is just: don't offend.

I'm not offended or anything, but I do think it needs to made clear that if anyone wants the jury to review a game, they need to say so directly. So, just for future reference everyone, if you want a game reviewed, please ask directly instead of assuming someone will look at it, because unfortunately I don't really have time to look through every game.

[Kival]

As far as i understood, lazy was not sure about every rule at that moment, so he probably does it intentionally but I'm sure he did not want to violate any rule.

@apaz

It's not allowed for infantry, too, yes? I've an excample out of the same game. I'll try to link it:

https://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1572/rometw2010071514341789.th.png (https://img706.imageshack.us/i/rometw2010071514341789.png/)

[WinsingtonIII]

As far as i understood, lazy was not sure about every rule at that moment, so he probably does it intentionally but I'm sure he did not want to violate any rule.

Yeah I'll take that into consideration.

Was this a high money or low money game?

[Kival]

As far as i remember it was was a high money game.

[WinsingtonIII]

As far as i remember it was was a high money game.

Thanks, I took a look at it but we can't get a verdict until two more people check it out, so it may be a while.

[vartan]

Thanks for actively challenging the game Kival. By doing so you have actually helped LazyO start to get accustomed to concepts like fairplay, concepts long forgotten in the original Rome: Total War multiplayer scene.

EDIT: Just to make this clear in case my preceding sentence wasn't clear enough: LazyO vs Kival is being discounted. Neither side gains or loses. LazyO: read the fair play violations page on the site in my sig if you haven't already. View the sample screenshots. They are critical for a common-ground among players regarding what is fair and what is unfair (regarding play! not stats! don't blame me for stats that you consider wrong, again, something I'd consider offensive toward those who created the mod in the first place).

[Ludens]

(regarding play! not stats! don't blame me for stats that you consider wrong, again, something I'd consider offensive toward those who created the mod in the first place).

For clarity: there are actually one or two statting errors still left in EB, so it's not offensive to ask the team if a particular stat is indeed correct. However, keep in mind that 1) all units in EB are statted according to the same system, and 2) the people who did the statting seldom visit the forums nowadays.

Obviously, the MP jury is not responsible for any statting errors.

[vartan]

For clarity: there are actually one or two statting errors still left in EB, so it's not offensive to ask the team if a particular stat is indeed correct. However, keep in mind that 1) all units in EB are statted according to the same system, and 2) the people who did the statting seldom visit the forums nowadays.

Obviously, the MP jury is not responsible for any statting errors.
Probably needless to say or ask, but I presume the folk who were on the EB I Dev Team working on statting that are no longer on the EB II Dev Team left behind some sort of documentation regarding their stat model. :idea2:

[Ludens]

Probably needless to say or ask, but I presume the folk who were on the EB I Dev Team working on statting that are no longer on the EB II Dev Team left behind some sort of documentation regarding their stat model. :idea2:

Since I am not on the team, I really wouldn't know.

[President]

Getai v. Kival. http://www.filefront.com/17076389/P3-v.Kival%28Carth%29.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17076389/P3-v.Kival%28Carth%29.rpy)


Winner: Getai.

[_Agrippa_]

Battle:

Me (Roman) vs President (Getai)

Winner: Agrippa (Roman)

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?n5lej00nw42ey5y

[The Celtic Viking]

Chalk up two more victories for me and the Arverni on the board. Both of them against President's Getai.

http://www.filefront.com/17078123/vsPresident%281%29.rpy

http://www.filefront.com/17078133/vsPresident%282%29.rpy

[vartan]

Updated scores and spreadsheets to post #448 on this thread by TCV. Agrippa, start leaving the network before signing off. Please get accustomed to this minor inconvenience.

[Kival]

Kival vs president

This time Kival is the winner ;-).

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2675145/Kivalvspresident2.rpy.html

[antisocialmunky]

Someone please get more than a 6 point spread...

[Lazy O]

Thanks kival for the thumbs up on the rule violation :). Wont happen again

[President]

1. Getai v. Lignator. http://www.filefront.com/17081599/P4-v.Lignator%28Pont%29.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17081599/P4-v.Lignator%28Pont%29.rpy)

Winner: Getai.


2. Getai v. Lignotor II. http://www.filefront.com/17081611/P5-v.LignatorII.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17081611/P5-v.LignatorII.rpy)

Winner: Getai.

[vartan]

Scores and sheets updated to post #453. You can download all games to date, 54 in total, HERE (http://www.filefront.com/17082131/2010_7.7z). Note that because of various conflicts and other issues that arise every once in a while, the game numbers in the archive do not always coincide with dates the games were played or submitted. Simply use those numbers when referring to a certain game. For instance, in a conversation about a certain tactic that shows up often, you may refer to a canonical game, such as Game (or Battle) #27, September 2011. People would know what you're talking about and could easily access it by way of the EB Online Tournament Replay Archive (possibly a resource for potential canonical battles to be written into the EB Wiki Replay Repository).

[Kival]

@LazyO

It's great that you understand I did not want to offend you but help you to learn the fair play rules. I'd be happy to play against you again.

@all

I've decided to change my 2-games-policy in a 2-victory policy. That means I'll play against one player - in tourney - until he or me has two points. It seems to be the better version. So anyone who lost one and won one against me and wants to play against me in tourney in again will be able to do that. Thanks to president for the idea.

[Lazy O]

Me(seleukids) vs Kival(carthaginians)

winner= me

http://rapidshare.com/files/407276834/kival1.rpy

[Kival]

Another match vs LazyO:

Kival is victor this time:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2676095/KivalvsLazyO.rpy.html

[President]

Yea Kival, where is LittleNoob at... I still need to play him twice... ;)

[President]

Getai v. Kival. http://www.filefront.com/17087165/P6-v.Kival-II.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17087165/P6-v.Kival-II.rpy)


Winner: Getai.

[vartan]

Updated to #459

57 games

http://www.filefront.com/17087275/2010_7.7z

EDIT #1: Our third webhost now, but hopefully our final (as we now have name servers instead of old school url forwarding).

EDIT #2: I won't be back until the second week of August. I leave in a couple days. Sorry for the inconvenience, but rest assured you will all see the final results within two weeks of the start of August at the very latest. :shame: Thanks to everyone who participated and made this possible.

[Lazy O]

Is the ebonline.tk site down? i need the network adress

[vartan]

Is the ebonline.tk site down? i need the network adress
Both www.ebonline.tk and ebonline.tk work.

[Lazy O]

It says i dont have permission to access the server. Nvm. can u just give me the room adresses ?

[vartan]

It says i dont have permission to access the server. Nvm. can u just give me the room adresses ?
031-664-896 for #1
041-531-937 for #2

The site works.

[Megas Ycarus]

Hey vartan, i would like to join this july tournament as Pahlava.

[vartan]

Hey vartan, i would like to join this july tournament as Pahlava.
You're in. By the way, nice avatar, looks like he could be the brother of the dude in my avatar pic.

[Megas Ycarus]

So, the player can only change the faction hes using in the end of the tournament or after 1 week of play ?

[vartan]

So, the player can only change the faction hes using in the end of the tournament or after 1 week of play ?
I received your PM. Yours is a special case. People of the tourney, Megas is playing as the Saka.

EDIT: Added statistical analysis of the website's pages and will make public in case anybody's interested (who knows?)

[_Agrippa_]

Battle:

Me (Roman) vs Megas Ycarus (Phalava)

Winner: Agrippa (Roman)

replay download: http://www.mediafire.com/?hgbki7r77ihiejx


P.S: this game was announced as the tournament eb then mysteriously I noticed in this post that was Megas Ycarus in Saka Rauka not Phalava -_-

[Βελισάριος]

Well... I sure missed out, didn't I?

Don't ask, it's a long bloody story.

[WinsingtonIII]

Well... I sure missed out, didn't I?

Don't ask, it's a long bloody story.

Well, there's still a couple weeks to play

[VikingPower]

VLN victory v.s Kival

http://www.filefront.com/17109873/VLN-Kival.rpy

Kival did not mention anything illegal about the victory, but I believe that I shot his units while mine slingers were already engaged in melee.

[vartan]

Kival did not mention anything illegal about the victory, but I believe that I shot his units while mine slingers were already engaged in melee.
Wouldn't be the first time. You also did a run/charge-through enemy units when you had your Teceitos run through enemy units that were engaged in melee with your Teceitos in order to charge at Fred's cavalry. Sorry for the late replay Fred and VLN, but have to award Fred the win. The nuances were decisive.

EDIT: http://www.filefront.com/17110209/2010_7.7z last update until the final results and replay package are uploaded in some 3 weeks' time.

[President]

Getai v. Ghaust the Moor. http://www.filefront.com/17110811/P7-v.Moor-I.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17110811/P7-v.Moor-I.rpy)


Winner: Getai.

[VikingPower]

VLN victory v.s Ghaust the moor

http://www.filefront.com/17111697/VLN-Ghaust.rpy

VLN victory v.s President

http://www.filefront.com/17111705/VLN-President.rpy

VLN victory v.s President (second battle)

http://www.filefront.com/17111711/VLN-President2.rpy

President says that I had a run-through, which may have accidentally happened in the midst of battle, but in mine opinion then I think that the battle was already decided before such thing happened.

I thank Ghaust the Moor for a simple honest game and wish him well in the tournament.

I am aware that I have had a problems in some games in regard to run-throughs, but for mine part then it can sometimes be impossible to notice everything at the same time when the situation calls for a quick decisions, for if accidents happen then let them happen and make the jury judge it rather than by gazing upon some single unit while neglecting the important side of the battle.

[President]

I would like to appeal game 2 vs VLN... http://www.filefront.com/17111949/MajorCavRunThru.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17111949/MajorCavRunThru.rpy)

Lot of run-throughs... specifically ~36,000 and ~ 45000...

The first involved him stack charging with his cavalry... (2 on 1)...

The second involved one of his heavy cavalry running through some tight formation skirmishers I had engaging him to charge at my general...

More less obvious... usually involving running through own line with cavalry retreating from my infantry...

[vartan]

President says that I had a run-through, which may have accidentally happened in the midst of battle, but in mine opinion then I think that the battle was already decided before such thing happened.
I can't be on much longer but I'm sick of this. I don't want to see people using excuses like this any longer. Just because the battle was in your favour does not mean you should go berserk. Don't ruin fair play even in times of apparent success.

[Kival]

I can't be on much longer but I'm sick of this. I don't want to see people using excuses like this any longer. Just because the battle was in your favour does not mean you should go berserk. Don't ruin fair play even in times of apparent success.

That is not meant as an excuse, it just to say if one thinks it was decisive or not. If i find time to make some screenshots I'll ask what is exactly considered a violation of fair play in the case of retreating horses.

[VikingPower]

I think Vartan is misunderstanding the meaning of mine words.

I have never done any illegal moves in an intentional way but sometimes when you are moving many units at the same time then you forget to keep a track of each and every one of those units so it can happen that some enemy units get in their path, and in most of the battles I have not myself been aware of these mistakes but only afterwards when I have watched the replay movies and tried to see that which the opponent was pointing at. So in this recent case then mine opinion is that even that one of mine unit had some run-through then I would still have won even if that same unit would have vaporised and not been made any further use of.

And finally, I have noticed that 'President' player may use another faction but his mouth and attitude is precicely the same as that of SlickNica, so it is too coincidental that two such characters can exist at the same time. Slick, nothing personal, just telling the truth regardless of that whether I will lose mine victory points against you, for I rather favour humble and silent players than those which are impulsive and noisy.

[WinsingtonIII]

I can't be on much longer but I'm sick of this. I don't want to see people using excuses like this any longer. Just because the battle was in your favour does not mean you should go berserk. Don't ruin fair play even in times of apparent success.

I don't think an accidental run-through counts as going berserk, it's pretty easy for accidental ones to happen occasionally. Just saying, I wouldn't take this so seriously.

[Burebista]

hehe..Slickniga(President) is back..for another kick in the behind.

[President]

Who the hell is SlickNiga and why am I being compared to him??

[Ghaust the Moor]

I think Vartan is misunderstanding the meaning of mine words.

I have never done any illegal moves in an intentional way but sometimes when you are moving many units at the same time then you forget to keep a track of each and every one of those units so it can happen that some enemy units get in their path, and in most of the battles I have not myself been aware of these mistakes but only afterwards when I have watched the replay movies and tried to see that which the opponent was pointing at. So in this recent case then mine opinion is that even that one of mine unit had some run-through then I would still have won even if that same unit would have vaporised and not been made any further use of.

I agree with VLN. I mean, i can't speak for everyone here as i know some of you all are very good at online battles, but regardless, some people make mistakes. They get distracted and don't see what happens on the other side of their line. I mean I was playing a game yesterday and I put some of my HA on Cantabrian circle and then left them while I ordered some of my other cavalry around. When I came back, the unit had drifted (As do every unit while in the formation) and was circling through my infantry. I quickly spotted this and tried to correct the mistake as it was technically a violation.

But the point is its easy to get distracted and let things go unnoticed especially in the thick of battle and your trying to micro manage an entire army. I'm sure some people on here think they are perfect and that regardless of your skill, these rules are no-brainers and think that everyone should be able to focus on this while doing our jobs. I mean being a pretty bad player, I know I can't do that 100% and I'm sure even the best of us are prone to making errors from time to time. In reality the run-through rule only really applies as a violation if done maliciously or intentionally. we can't all be Alexanders or Julius Caesars and its wrong to expect that. I'm just stating my opinion so don't let it offend you if it did in some way. I just think that the expectation that we all should be perfect generals and above reproach when it comes to fairplay violations is wrong... *Hides*


EDIT: Now that I have reread this, i seem to kinda have gotten carried away. I'm sorry if I insulted Vartan as that was not my intention. I just kinda got caught up in my point of view that I kinda bashed others.....

[President]

Getai v. Kikaz: http://www.filefront.com/17122083/P8-v.Kikaz-I.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17122083/P8-v.Kikaz-I.rpy)


Winner: Getai.

[Kikaz]

http://www.filefront.com/17122801/Sweboz-Ghaust.rpy
Kikaz vs Ghaust The Moor
Kikaz is victorious. Even though the map had no trees... Guess my new "screw cavalry" roster approach works.

[Kival]

Kival vs Megas (Saka Rauka)

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2684958/Kivalvsmegas1.rpy.html

Winner: Kival

[Ghaust the Moor]

http://www.filefront.com/17122801/Sweboz-Ghaust.rpy
Kikaz vs Ghaust The Moor
Kikaz is victorious. Even though the map had no trees... Guess my new "screw cavalry" roster approach works.

Now I'm not saying your roster is very annoying for cavalry, but my army was not even half cavalry. I took more of a hellenized Saka approach. I had 7 cav units and 9 inf units. That was a good game. Definitely the best I've ever done.

[Kikaz]

Now I'm not saying your roster is very annoying for cavalry, but my army was not even half cavalry. I took more of a hellenized Saka approach. I had 7 cav units and 9 inf units. That was a good game. Definitely the best I've ever done.

Well, I meant "screw cavalry" as in "I'm not going to take any cavalry for this game". Aye it was a very fun game, many moments where I thought I would lose.

[President]

Getai v. Kikaz II. http://www.filefront.com/17123449/P9-v.Kikaz-II.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17123449/P9-v.Kikaz-II.rpy)


Winner: Getai.


EDIT: Was vs. Kikaz, not Kival.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Well, I meant "screw cavalry" as in "I'm not going to take any cavalry for this game". Aye it was a very fun game, many moments where I thought I would lose.

Oh ok I see what you mean now. Well it worked good either way :P

[Kival]

Getai v. Kival II. http://www.filefront.com/17123449/P9-v.Kikaz-II.rpy (http://www.filefront.com/17123449/P9-v.Kikaz-II.rpy)


Winner: Getai.

? Do you really mean Getai vs Kival? I did not play against you after our third match.

EDIT: I had two fights against Ghaust, it made much fun, thanks for the games!

Kival vs Ghaust

Victory for my Carthies against steppe-Saka

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2685079/Kivalvsghaust.rpy.html

Kival vs Ghaust 2

Victtory for my Carthies against Civ-Saka, too

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2685081/KivalvsGhaust2.rpy.html

[President]

Yes, my bad, the game was versus Kikaz.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Ghaust the Moor (saka) Vs. LazyO (AS)

Winner Ghaust the Moor

It was a fun game and it was really chaotic :)

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

ACS(Pahlava) VS LazyO(AS)

winner ACS(Pahlava)

http://www.zshare.net/download/785151822c621cb7/

P.S. where is my fifth defeat?
I've count only 4.

[jirisys]

Who the hell is SlickNiga and why am I being compared to him??

Because of the fact that you put the N in Caps, when Burebista didn't write it like that :wink::clown:

~Jirisys (Just Sayin'!)

[Intranetusa]

I had to reformat my comp... =(

I'll rejoin the tourney asap as I get my EB back and running...

[SlickNicaG69]

I'm sorry but I think reformatting is grounds for DQ, so I am sorry but I think you out 'Nusa!

[Ghaust the Moor]

Tell us slick, How is reformatting your computer grounds for a disqualification?

[The Celtic Viking]

Just ignore the troll.

What happened to the ebonline site?

[Lazy O]

I dont know, I asked vartan if the site was down but he said it was ok, so I just asked for the network adresses. It says 403 forbidden