View Full Version : Love Parade Berlin
This is bad.
edit: and not Berlin
Ser Clegane
07-24-2010, 19:30
Link (http://www.deutsche-welle.de/dw/article/0,,5834737,00.html)
Skullheadhq
07-24-2010, 19:32
Damschreeuwer 2.0?
When there is a litle danger, people will even kill eachother just to get out themselves, people are just animals in that respect. Rational thinking seems to die in that sort of situations
@Cleg Only links I can find are either Dutch or German. Nothing is known now, except that 10 persons died.
Ser Clegane
07-24-2010, 19:33
Not sure if a "clown" smiley is really appropriate here :no:
Might be an attack people have burning wounds, 15 dead comfirmed.
Ser Clegane
07-24-2010, 19:43
Might be an attack people have burning wounds, 15 dead comfirmed.
I haven't seen anything about burning wounds in any of the German News sources. Cuurently it looks "simply" like a panic in a crowded area (a tunnel)
I haven't seen anything about burning wounds in any of the German News sources. Cuurently it looks "simply" like a panic in a crowded area (a tunnel)
Looks like that is what happened. Horrible rip victims.
Hosakawa Tito
07-24-2010, 23:34
15 Killed in Panic (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/07/24/world/international-uk-germany-love-deaths.html?). A terrible tragedy. Condolences to Germany and those poor kids.
Yes, weird day, I was working but some of it actually came through to me, there was a mother who couldn't pay and told me he daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, so she gave me her ID card but then she wanted a receipt, too. When I told her I can only give receipts after people paid, she threatened me with physical harm etc.
I can kinda understand a mother but I cannot just let people go like that, it was a bad day overall.
Sorry for those who lost someone and I'm not sure who of the people I know might have been there. :shrug:
Louis VI the Fat
07-25-2010, 02:59
Very sad.
God I hate crowds. They're dangerous.
Yes, weird day, I was working but some of it actually came through to me, there was a mother who couldn't pay and told me he daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, so she gave me her ID card but then she wanted a receipt, too. When I told her I can only give receipts after people paid, she threatened me with physical harm etc.Wait, did the mother claim her story was related to what happened in Berlin? Or did you just have to get that off your chest?
19 dead, if you look at these images I am kina all 'wth were they thinking'
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/buitenland/2010/07/mental_theo_zwaar_gechoqueerd.html
People need oxygen you idiots a tunnel like that doesn't have enough of it.
Pretty nasty imagery but it looks like most kept their cools
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1052851/a571a98d/nare_beelden_van_de_loveparade.html
Really sad day for our neighbours. I understand that panic can't be prevented but this was a disaster in the making.
CountArach
07-25-2010, 10:48
Tragedy :sad:
Mass-crowded concerts in tunnels are a moronic idea.
Hosakawa Tito
07-25-2010, 10:58
Thousands of people allowed to flow unrestricted into a confined space like that is a recipe for disaster. What should have been an entertaining day of music and fun with friends turns into a death trap for some. Positional asphyxiation is a gruesome way to die. Hopefully, those in charge of this event learn from this and develop a better way to control such a crowd in future events.:no:
My step-daughter is attending an outdoor concert at Darien Lake today. Her mother and I really didn't need to see this news from Germany.:sweatdrop:
Wait, did the mother claim her story was related to what happened in Berlin? Or did you just have to get that off your chest?
She claimed her daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, that's where the love parade was (not Berlin).
And I had to get it off my chest, too.
She could have gone without the receipt but said then we might want 60 instead of 30€ from her afterwards, basically accused us/me of trying to trick her, so her thoughts were not just with her daughter, but also with her money, which was also disturbing(and we don't do that anyway).
Thousands of people allowed to flow unrestricted into a confined space like that is a recipe for disaster. What should have been an entertaining day of music and fun with friends turns into a death trap for some. Positional asphyxiation is a gruesome way to die. Hopefully, those in charge of this event learn from this and develop a better way to control such a crowd in future events.:no:
My step-daughter is attending an outdoor concert at Darien Lake today. Her mother and I really didn't need to see this news from Germany.:sweatdrop:
Not thousands, 1.5 million people. Two ways out that tunnel being one of them. What the hell were they thinking.
Skullheadhq
07-25-2010, 11:42
What the hell were they thinking.
$$$
Love parade is free. But this is a major organisation fail, surprising coming from Germans. How did they expect emergency to get either in or out. In the middle of the summer ffs. People can get overheated or dehydrated, people can overdose. They expected 250.000 wut? It's the Love parade they should have at least expected a million. Did they haul water for only 250.000? Maybe what happened was the best possible scenario, and we should be glad only 19 people died.
Skullheadhq
07-26-2010, 11:19
Love parade is free. But this is a major organisation fail, surprising coming from Germans. How did they expect emergency to get either in or out. In the middle of the summer ffs. People can get overheated or dehydrated, people can overdose. They expected 250.000 wut? It's the Love parade they should have at least expected a million. Did they haul water for only 250.000? Maybe what happened was the best possible scenario, and we should be glad only 19 people died.
30 degrees + no water + no chance to get it in that crowd could have lead to hundreds of dead.
30 degrees + no water + no chance to get it in that crowd could have lead to hundreds of dead.
Abso :daisy: lutely so. Already heard there is some massaging going on, files being deleted, someone screwed up badly. The more I hear the more amazed I am, especially since it's all so well taken care of in Berlin. This was a deathtrap pure and simple. That bloody tunnel being the most amazing of everything, low roof, no ventilation, thousands and thousands of people moving through they could have suffocated.
rory_20_uk
07-26-2010, 11:37
Seeing a picture of the grounds did strike me that there was a large area with people in surrounded by very solid walls, and then a small outlet with very solid walls.
In the event of problems the system had no ability to expand the area, merely concentrate pressure in the tunnel.
Considering the numbers, 16 deaths was relatively light.
~:smoking:
Abso :daisy: lutely so. Already heard there is some massaging going on, files being deleted, someone screwed up badly
Afaik the plans for the event have already been confiscated by the authorities, there's a lot of blame going around, from what I read on Facebook one of the organisers said one day prior to the parade that probably nothing will happen or something like that. Sounds like a typical case of underestimating the dangers and yes, that, unfortunately, happens in Germany, too.
Considering the numbers, 16 deaths was relatively light.
19 deaths but yes, somewhat of a low number considering how many people attended. I heard in Essen 3 people died but apparently mostly due to their own fault, when it was here it was open from all sides, a few road closures around the inner city of course but you could walk freely through the whole inner city and approach the event from all sides, why they decided to herd people into a corral in Duisburg I don't know. :shrug:
Afaik the plans for the event have already been confiscated by the authorities.
So the authorities didn't feel like taking a peek in advance, hard to believe. This would (or should) never have been aproved by the fire department, police and emergency services. In Berlin you can aproach the festival from all angles and can even find some nice and quiet, enough routes for said services, watercannons ready to provide some refreshement should it be needed, first aid stations everywhere, almost everything that can go wrong is taken into account.
FFS http://www.upvideo.com/upvideo_video.aspx?vid=RDERKkabtkuRsriLNpHOOw
It seems like some are trying to escape their responsability...
There are allegations that police may have tried to cover up what happened. SPIEGEL ONLINE has learned that one office of the Federal Police erased all its documents about the Love Parade -- including orders, reports from the scene and maps -- from the computers and email accounts of its officers. "A big vacuum cleaner came round very quickly," said one officer, who believes it may have been part of a deliberate coverup.
Such reports raise questions about whether the comprehensive investigation that German President Christian Wulff had earlier announced would really take place.
A spokesman for the Federal Police said late on Sunday there had been no instruction to remove data from computers. "All documents about the operation are available and can be requested and read," he said.
Link. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,708462,00.html)
So the authorities didn't feel like taking a peek in advance, hard to believe.
No, the city/state/whatever attourney didn't really have to take a look in advance, but now he wants to because he is going to sue some people. ~;)
Skullheadhq
07-26-2010, 17:53
It seems like some are trying to escape their responsability...
It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.
Ser Clegane
07-26-2010, 19:16
It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.
Actually local authorities are very much responsible, or do you believe that they are not involved in the planning and approval process for an avent of such scale?
HoreTore
07-26-2010, 19:48
It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.
In communist countries like Western Europe, the difference between the two is marginal at best.
Actually local authorities are very much responsible, or do you believe that they are not involved in the planning and approval process for an avent of such scale?
^- that
Louis VI the Fat
07-26-2010, 20:40
Those videos that emerged are incredibly disturbing. What on earth were they thinking? I'm surpirsed not more people died.
This entire event had disaster written all all over it.
She claimed her daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, that's where the love parade was (not Berlin).
And I had to get it off my chest, too.
She could have gone without the receipt but said then we might want 60 instead of 30€ from her afterwards, basically accused us/me of trying to trick her, so her thoughts were not just with her daughter, but also with her money, which was also disturbing(and we don't do that anyway).Ah, now I get it. I thought the love parade was in Berlin, and wondered what Duisberg had to do with any of it.
I think the woman was just trying to take advantage of you and the tragedy. Frauds know no shame. Call me a cynic, but I've lived in cities for too long, heard too many stories by people who all happen to be a victim of whatever the latest high profile tragedy is. Sadly, they undermine solidarity and the natural tendency of good people to help each other out. They prey on it, what to you is a an act of humanity, is to these people a sign of your stupidity, and if you are stupid, you can be taken advantage of because it's your own fault, so they feel perfectly entitled to, without the least bit of shame. They are dishonest to such an extent they are genuinely insulted when you don't believe them.
And what's with her nonsense about physically threatening you, and asking for you to trust her but her not willing to trust you? Pft.
Aww the major has solemny claimed that they gave out the permit just that day. That is of course what you do when you expect at least 250.000.00 people I guess. Guy, step down and commit suicide.
I think the woman was just trying to take advantage of you and the tragedy. Frauds know no shame. Call me a cynic, but I've lived in cities for too long, heard too many stories by people who all happen to be a victim of whatever the latest high profile tragedy is. Sadly, they undermine solidarity and the natural tendanecy of good people to help others out. They prey on it, what to you is a an act of humanity, is to these people a sign you are stupid, and if you are stupid, you can be taken advantage of, so they feel perfectly entitled too, without the least bit of shame. They are dishonest to such an extent they are genuinely insulted.
And what's with her nonsense about physically threatening you, and asking for you to trust her but her not willing to trust you? Pft.
I actually suspected the same, the way it happened was that she came during my next shift on Monday and paid the bill. This time though she was very nice, even said I handled the situation very well etc. She was only angry at my colleague's behaviour but I can't say anything about that since I completely forgot what my colleague said to her. :shrug:
Death toll is at 20 now since a 21 year old woman died in hospital, the number of wounded has been corrected up to more than 500. :no:
I have no idea who exactly was in the planning committee and what they said there so I find it hard to call for anyone to step down. Some say the police have been warned by outsiders, others say the police warned the committee etc.
I think it's possible that some of the responsible people were against it but not heard, so I'm going to wait for more info before I'm throwing blame around at single persons.
Looks like everything is blamed on the organsisation. Dear mr mayor it is you who screwed up, you are payed for it. And It is me you don't want to meet in a dark alley as I will tear of your jaw.
Skullheadhq
07-30-2010, 13:09
And It is me you don't want to meet in a dark alley as I will tear of your jaw.
Why, someone you know was there? Why so personal?
Vladimir
07-30-2010, 14:16
Why, someone you know was there? Why so personal?
It's because he's so :jawdrop:ing fragadelic!
Well, new info has surfaced, first off it's 21 dead now as another person succumbed to their injuries.
And then it was also revealed that the 1.4 million attendants was just a publicity lie, they only expected around 485000 people, insurance and authorities were given the lower numbers and were even informed that the public would be given far higher numbers for marketing reasons, apparently this has been going on for years.
I have to say I don't really get the outrage at the mayor, yes, he shares some responsibility, but I think the ones who came up with the plans and organized the event in this fashion have a far bigger share in the catastrophe, yet all the outrage seems to go towards the mayor only. :shrug:
Why, someone you know was there? Why so personal?
I hate screwups who are where they are just because they are good at screwing somebody else. If that beardneck accepted his obvious screwup ok, but all he wants is his fat butt on that chair. He would have zero problems whatsoever ruining a100 lives to keep his fat butt on that chair.
Skullheadhq
07-31-2010, 19:06
I hate screwups who are where they are just because they are good at screwing somebody else. If that beardneck accepted his obvious screwup ok, but all he wants is his fat butt on that chair. He would have zero problems whatsoever ruining a100 lives to keep his fat butt on that chair.
I heard it had something to do with his pension.
I heard it had something to do with his pension.
If he retires he won't get one I think, if they vote him out, he will get one, I think.
Skullheadhq
08-01-2010, 09:51
If he retires he won't get one I think, if they vote him out, he will get one, I think.
Indeed, I would have done the same if I was him.
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