Victoria 2 (and indeed Victoria if there's still anyone left playing it here)

[frogbeastegg]

One week to release. Anyone here intending to pick it up?

I did rather like the original Vicky, pre expansion pack. I've not played the Revolutions version enough to form an opinion on it. So I'm rather interested in the sequel and plan to pick it up once I know it's not buggy and/or missing half the features it needs to be interesting as had been the case with many of the earlier Paradox releases.

I felt that Vicky was the most interesting of the Paradox stable, despite my dislike of the setting. It's the one where peacetime is the busiest and most interesting. Between research, politics, diplomacy, colonisation, infrastructure, construction, trading, playing with sliders, and POP management there was always something to do. It didn't feel like the partially empty experience found in many other Paradox games; often in them I find myself with speed cranked to the max waiting for something to happen or the chance to do something. Warfare, always a wobbly and unenjoyable part of Paradox games IMO, felt like it had been placed in the back seat in Vicky and that helped strengthen the experience. Becoming a great power by conquest is passe. Becoming a great power by the might of your industry is more flavoursome.

Vicky 2 is looking promising and I hope that it lives up to its predecessor, and does so out of the box on release day.

[Kagemusha]

I never played the Original Victoria, but currently what time i have to play is usually consumed by EU III. If Victoria 2 has any of the same qualities EU has i think il give it a go.:yes:

[frogbeastegg]

Victoria is ... grand. There's no better word for it. There's a feel to it which I've encountered in no other strategy game. It partly comes from the subject matter, I believe. You are taking your nation and pushing it through into the dawn of the modern age. When you start there's no railways, few factories, no grand late imperialistic colonies. By the time you end everywhere looks like a precursor to the current day, and mankind has learned to fly, make electric lights or telephone, and your empire can sprawl from one side of the globe to another with all the Victorian flag-waving you can think of - poised ripe to collapse as modern attitudes start to form.

There's a strange feeling to painstakingly educating your middle and lower classes, invoking the social reforms they then understand sufficiently to clammer for, and watching your government be pressed into a new shape by the pressures of an urban poor who have started to think in terms previously restricted to the higher classes. It makes you feel like the parent of your chosen nation in some strange way; you grew it and taught it and now it's become an entity of its own.

It's hard work though. At least pre-Revolutions. I hear they toned the micromanagement down a lot and added some clearer feedback in the expansion.

[Furunculus]

One week to release. Anyone here intending to pick it up?

I did rather like the original Vicky, pre expansion pack. I've not played the Revolutions version enough to form an opinion on it. So I'm rather interested in the sequel and plan to pick it up once I know it's not buggy and/or missing half the features it needs to be interesting as had been the case with many of the earlier Paradox releases.

I felt that Vicky was the most interesting of the Paradox stable, despite my dislike of the setting. It's the one where peacetime is the busiest and most interesting. Between research, politics, diplomacy, colonisation, infrastructure, construction, trading, playing with sliders, and POP management there was always something to do. It didn't feel like the partially empty experience found in many other Paradox games; often in them I find myself with speed cranked to the max waiting for something to happen or the chance to do something. Warfare, always a wobbly and unenjoyable part of Paradox games IMO, felt like it had been placed in the back seat in Vicky and that helped strengthen the experience. Becoming a great power by conquest is passe. Becoming a great power by the might of your industry is more flavoursome.

Vicky 2 is looking promising and I hope that it lives up to its predecessor, and does so out of the box on release day.

just spent the last hour reading this AAR on V2, it looks amazing:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487081&page=2

I will be buying this.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Pretty excited about this. Vicky was my first Paradox game (talk about trial by fire) and I never actually got good at it. My best games were with China or Japan where I fought off the white devils enough to develop in peace, and I won (or came close to it) by building a nation of shiny railroads. :P Then I got EU3 and haven't gotten the nerve up to go back. I hope Vicky 2's interface is more EU3 while letting me play Vicky style.

[Kagemusha]

Well after that description i think im definetely getting this game. By the way Froggy, maybe you should visit the chapterhouse one of these days as franconicus is hosting a forum game there that address the very same period and you can pick your country, playing together and against human opponents. This ofcourse goes to rest of you guys also:deal:

[frogbeastegg]

Pretty excited about this. Vicky was first Paradox game (talk about trial by fire) and I never actually got good at it. My best games were with China or Japan where I fought off the white devils enough to develop in peace, and I won (or came close to it) by building a nation of shiny railroads. :P Then I got EU3 and haven't gotten the nerve up to go back. I hope Vicky 2's interface is more EU3 while letting me play Vicky style.
That was my problem with Vicky. By the time I'd learned enough to be half decent at it I was that worn out I needed a break. Then they released Revolutions and I faced needing to learn the game all over again; the new features were too good to pass over yet changed the game dramatically.

The game was great material for a comedy "I don't know what I'm doing!" AAR. 'They Call me *MR* Newbie!' was fun to write. I sometimes hanker to do a sequel, 'Return of the Newbie'.

[Meneldil]

If it's anywere as buggy and stupid as HoI3, then I guess I'll pass. I like the era, I liked Ricky (even though I never got good at it) but HoI3 kind of killed my enthousiasm for Paradox games.

[Furunculus]

it does look like they have improved things from the carious AAR reports that have come out.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

That AAR you posted was a good read, Rurunculus. :D

[Furunculus]

indeed, took over an hour and i didn't move from my seat once.

[Meneldil]

it does look like they have improved things from the carious AAR reports that have come out.

Yeah, it does, except for that whole part about Prussia forming Germany after getting her butt kicked. That was kind of weird, but still not as "wtf-ish" as Italy declaring war on Germany in 1937 or some similarly ridiculous HoI3 event.

[frogbeastegg]

I plan to wait a minimum of 2 weeks after release and see how people feel about the game. The AARs for CK and EUIII looked good too; I brought both at release and found major problems with both. I'm also aware of the problems the other games had at release.

I am lightly optimistic though. Paradox have admitted multiple times that HOI3's release state was a mistake which could not be allowed to happen again. I'd say that they are very aware that another buggy and/or feature-poor release will do them a lot of harm.

Disappointed about the lack of a printed manual in the retail boxed version though. It's a cheapskate move and I notice the game doesn't cost any less because of it.

[Martok]

Looks like there will be a demo coming out tomorrow (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11475232#post11475232). You're restricted to playing the USA, and it lasts for 15 years. No MP or save/load, but it will include the tutorial.



Not sure how I feel about this one. I know the original Vicky received a lot of praise, but I know it's also been -- criticized? observed to be? -- complex to the point of being intimidating for some players. As someone who's still learning the ropes of (and occasionally overwhelmed by) EU3 -- a game which, by almost all accounts, is far more user-friendly than most previous PI titles -- I admit to feeling less than totally optimistic about my ability to get a handle on an even more....involved game. :sweatdrop:

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

[Monk]

Looks like there will be a demo coming out tomorrow (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11475232#post11475232). You're restricted to playing the USA, and it lasts for 15 years. No MP or save/load, but it will include the tutorial.



Not sure how I feel about this one. I know the original Vicky received a lot of praise, but I know it's also been -- criticized? observed to be? -- complex to the point of being intimidating for some players. As someone who's still learning the ropes of (and occasionally overwhelmed by) EU3 -- a game which, by almost all accounts, is far more user-friendly than most previous PI titles -- I admit to feeling less than totally optimistic about my ability to get a handle on an even more....involved game. :sweatdrop:

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

Victoria is about three times as complex as EUIII is and four times as unforgiving. Where as in EUIII, if you make a mistake and lose a war you can probably make a turn around (due not only to how long the game is but the simplified economical system), in Vicky if you lose a war you could very well wreck your economy for the entire game, sending you into a spiral that you can't get out of in time to do much else on the political stage. If at all possible I suggest studying the manual like a holy text and... what's that?


Disappointed about the lack of a printed manual in the retail boxed version though. It's a cheapskate move and I notice the game doesn't cost any less because of it.

Oh ~:(

I'd suggest giving the demo a go, but saying it's "complex" doesn't cover the half of it.

[Marshal Murat]

I got Vicky as part of a "Paradox Package". I only really played Vicky and HoI. Vicky was tough just because of the number of factors that one had to juggle, but from the looks of it (i.e. AAR) the system has been eased to allow a more streamlined game. I had planned on buying it some time, but after reading the AAR, I'm definitely looking forward to it (where did my day go? Oh, that's right, invading Mexico...)

[seireikhaan]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

[Monk]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

I disagree, i felt the highly linear and structured nature of Victoria ultimately detracted from the overall experience. Giving the player to stretch their legs a bit more is a good thing as it increases replayability. My biggest complaint about Victoria was after a few games, other attempts felt like things were playing out exactly the same as they had before without much in the way of variation.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yeah, I like how Eu3 can mix it up a bit (even though as a not particularly good player I still feel restricted in how well I can do with each nation). I think the EU3 model of being fairly open while allowing the modding community to make tightly historical and even more punishing versions is a good compromise.

[Jolt]

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

Believe me, nothing I've done in EU3, no matter how big the empire has made me feel as much pleasure to watch as this:

https://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/Joltie/Austria.jpg

or especially this:

https://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/Joltie/a.jpg

Building an economy and industry and army and navy into the greatest power in the world, then seeing how your country's POPs behave is is extremely fun.

To give you an example, in my Austrian game, since 1900's has hit, Fascist parties have appeared, and as it happens, wierdly enough (As Fascist parties usually come to power in frustrated countries who have core territories owned by other powers), my POPs steadily gave the Fascist party their support, and the party DNSAP (Austrian Nazi Party) had a course pretty much like the Nazi party. In the first elections it participated, it got like 5% of the votes, making it a minor party (The two major parties were, the Socialists - who won the elections - and the Conservatives), then in the second election they bumped the Conservatives off the second placed party, becoming a major party (The two most voted parties gain the "Major Party" Attribute, which gives the party extra votes in the next elections) with like 19% of the votes. In the third election, that year there was a Socialist split between the Old Socialists, which had won the previous elections and whose economical policy was "State Capitalism" and the New Socialists whose economical policy was "Interventionism". As it happens, the left-wing voters fractionned off, splitting their votes between both Socialist parties (Like 13-14% for each, with a slight advantage for the New Socialists), while the DNSAP had like 23% of the voting intentions. But in a Constitutional Monarchy, I am allowed to Ban Parties during election campaigns (Which last 9 months in the game), and since a Fascist party coming to power would trigger a regime change from a Constitutional Monarchy into a Presidential Dictatorship, RPing the Austro-Hungarian Kaiser, I banned the DNSAP a few weeks before the election actually took place. As a result, the New Socialists won the elections and the Old Socialists disbanded. It was pretty awesome.

[al Roumi]

On the strength of your recommendations and the excellent AAR, I am going to try the demo. If it's all good (and not tooth pullingly buggy), I might buy the game soonish. I guess it depends on whether I want to have a social life. Otherwise, this looks like a game after my heart.

EU3 is good fun (despite its idiosyncrasies) but the sight of those pop screens from from Vicky2 makes EU3's slider based control of most things in "domestic" policy look crudely infantile. I will probably regret this frequently over the next month but: bring on the detail!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Download commenced, 30 minutes to go!

[frogbeastegg]

Oh, demo! Unexpected. :clicks download, waits:

Vicky 1 was complex and takes an effort to learn, yet simultaneously I found it to be the second easiest to really get into and get going with. CK was the easiest but that's because it was as shallow as could be pre-deus vult. Much easier than EUII or EUIII, in that they always feel somehow illogical and archane to me thanks to the UI and design choices.

Vicky has a lot to keep track of and to do; a lot of that is quite logical to the modern player thanks to the setting. You can intuit what the technologies and settings do for the most part. Balancing the needs, and learning the many options and how they interact is the hard part. You can tell what education will do for you people, you can tell higher rates of it cost more, and you can guess some ways to make money. Finding the best ways to make money, what level to have education set to for best results for your needs, and how to play it off against other needs - that's the hard part.

For anyone who hasn't got it, the original Vicky complete pack (includes expansion) are half price on gamersgate. DRM free, can be installed on multiple PCs, no program like steam or impulse required for installation or play. Cheap, bug-fixed entry point for those wanting to dabble, and it looks like the sequel will be different enough that the original will still be worth playing.

EDIT: those servers are getting hammered! I'm getting less than 1/6 of my usual download rate from gamersgate. Shame fileplanet demands I install their junk on my PC; I refuse. :looks at download timer: 2 hours 30 minutes to go. Ulp!

Good sign, I guess. Must be a huge demand to make this kind of a dent; gamersgate's normally very reliable.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Played the demo for bit, everything seems easier to access except production/finances/imports. I'm hugely in the red (-50 pounds a day!) because (I think) I'm paying for resources for construction projects that I didn't start. Shutting down the starting factories won't do enough to stop the drain, since they're mostly just short of coal, but not enough to cost me 50 pounds a day. I'm going to go through the Paradox forums and see if someone has a tutorial or guide for the demo. :P

EDIT: Maybe I should try the tutorial

[Jolt]

Played the demo for bit, everything seems easier to access except production/finances/imports. I'm hugely in the red (-50 pounds a day!) because (I think) I'm paying for resources for construction projects that I didn't start. Shutting down the starting factories won't do enough to stop the drain, since they're mostly just short of coal, but not enough to cost me 50 pounds a day. I'm going to go through the Paradox forums and see if someone has a tutorial or guide for the demo. :P

EDIT: Maybe I should try the tutorial

Downloading. I'm gonna go straight for the advanced tutorial first before going to the demo itself.

[Furunculus]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

apparently they are using the sophistication of the game mechanics such as country tags to make historical events likely even if they are not scripted. how well it will work............................. who knows, but it'll be even better if it does.

[Monk]

According to Rock Paper Shogun (and the game's wiki page where they found it), there's a bet within Paradox that Vicky 2 won't turn a profit (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/10/victoria-ii-demo-i/). :laugh4:

I'm downloading the demo now and gonna take it for a spin later tonight or tomorrow.


Downloading. I'm gonna go straight for the advanced tutorial first before going to the demo itself.

You and me both!

[Furunculus]

he's already shaved off his hair, did it a week or two back.

[Beskar]

Damn, I don't get why Mexico keeps pwning me and why organisation/re-supply is so rubbish. Also, the army recruiting system is a pain (having to use up slots in a province, opposed to Manpower as in HoI3 and EU3)

Only way I can dent the Mexicans is just completely outnumber them, but they seem to have more men than me.

[naut]

Nice. If it is open ended like EU3 then I'll be waiting until the historical mods come-out. Otherwise, after the first patch, yep.

[al Roumi]

Damn, I don't get why Mexico keeps pwning me and why organisation/re-supply is so rubbish. Also, the army recruiting system is a pain (having to use up slots in a province, opposed to Manpower as in HoI3 and EU3)

Only way I can dent the Mexicans is just completely outnumber them, but they seem to have more men than me.

Isn't that why Davy Crocket and the Alamo are such important symbols?

I fired up the demo this morning, only played about 20 mins but it was long enough for me to get Texas into my sphere and join their war of independance. I won the first skirmish and then got bogged down in a long battle into which the Mexicanos poured their reinforcements, finaly overwhelming my forces and forcing a retreat. I didn't ahve much time for more but it didn't look like things were going to go my way!

At the same time as getting stuck in with the Tejanos, I tried to play around with my Pop and taxes. Starting off, my middle class were havings erious difficulty getting their "life" needs,s o I ran their taxes rigfht down. The working class, by comparison were doing rather well, so I heaped tax on them and added a shade to the Uppers too. I had trade as automated and my budget was swinging quite crazyly -I understand there's an element of "suck it and see" to setting budgets in Vicky but it was intersting to see how that plays out.

I also had a problem with unemployed factory workers, due in no small part to inefficient factories. I'd initially not checked on these but by the time i did, some had closed -things were so bad! I moved to subsidise the most at risk as I was researching industrial improvements which would hopefuly improve factory efficiency in the medium term.

I'm going to have another go at this tonight, maybe forget about Tejas and see what i can do internally, trying to build the foundations of industry. It would be nice to link the southern RGOs (is that the right acronym?) with my northern manufacturing centres. If memory serves, Hobsbawm saw the diference and gap between northern and southern economies as a key economic driver of the civil war (South keen to remain part of the international free market as an exporter of raw materials, North -veering towards protectionism and an insulated internal market). I guess that production efficiency and competition with european manufacturing bases will be critical -as well as export markets for my manufactured goods (e.g. S.America here i come!).

[Skullheadhq]

In Vicky1 I always placed rich taxes on 0%. Rich people payed taxes in railroads.

[Jolt]

In Vicky1 I always placed rich taxes on 0%. Rich people payed taxes in railroads.

And Glass Factories. :P

[al Roumi]

In Vicky1 I always placed rich taxes on 0%.

~:eek: but, but, but, this is my socialist paradise we are talking about.... there can be no un-taxed rich people there!

[Skullheadhq]

~:eek: but, but, but, this is my socialist paradise we are talking about.... there can be no un-taxed rich people there!

Capitalism is for the lazy, just place rich taxes on zero and the country will build itself. Free factories and railroads for everyone! Besides, taxing the rich to high will result in your country becoming Pauperland.

[al Roumi]

Capitalism is for the lazy, just place rich taxes on zero and the country will build itself. Free factories and railroads for everyone! Besides, taxing the rich to high will result in your country becoming Pauperland.

Er, i think you mean it will become a socialist utopia, right?

I am joking btw, thanks for the hints on vicky's economy... :grin:

[Skullheadhq]

Huh, and for some reason I never have a middle class, only the very poor and very rich, and I don't even play South-American nations!

[Beskar]

Seems to be a common issue with Mexican super-soldiers who seem to be far more tech advanced and have far superior re-supplying. Apparently, some spectulate that this was an intentional part on Paradox's behalf.

When does Vicky 2 officially come out?

[al Roumi]

Seems to be a common issue with Mexican super-soldiers who seem to be far more tech advanced and have far superior re-supplying. Apparently, some spectulate that this was an intentional part on Paradox's behalf.

When does Vicky 2 officially come out?

13th August - Friday - TOMORROW

As to the Mexicanos, there's a good AAR on the demo, and plenty of advice on how to withstand the onslaught in the paradox forum.

I actually didn't find it that hard, combat is much the same as EU3 and I found the US and Mexico to be quite balanced. I needed all my starting troops and more but I was able to defend Texas and annihilate 1 of 2 20-odd stacks the Mexicans sent north of the Rio grande. the seocnd I beat back and did not need to destroy to make peace (which included the addition of Mexican Texas (2 states north of the Rio G) to independant Texas). Mexico did mobilize during my game but I never saw a deluge of troops that has been reported. Use attrition and help the Texan forces out as their leader is waay better than any the USA gets for a while.

[Skullheadhq]

I preordered a box copy, can't wait till tomorrow!

[Marshal Murat]

After the first couple of attempts at saving Texas (some of which succeeded), I decided on one game to just bring Mexico into my SoI and then declare Manifest Destiny.
Another time I got a Casus Belli against Atjah or some Indonesian potentate, so I ordered some clippers in Seattle and Portland, marched my army corps over to Washington. However my rating was so low with UK that they thought my army was going to invade Vancouverm that they just invaded me to eliminate the threat, so I had to retaliate, so they retaliated, and it went downhill from there.

[Beskar]

Alright, having another play, this time also roping the United States of Central America into the war as well on my side.

-big edit-

Ok, there is a war-tab which you can use to add more goals to wars, very handy so you don't do what I did and do 5 different wars to unite the US.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Is there a link to a good demo AAR? I deleted all my military units and was still losing money.

[Jolt]

Is there a link to a good demo AAR? I deleted all my military units and was still losing money.

I found the Demo somewhat easy militarily, that is. I played with a graphics bug, and only played the first few years.

What I did:

Focus went to colonization of Washington and Colorado.
Moved the closest army to Washington to kill the British colonization.
Messed with the sliders, apparently my economy colapsed so quickly when I noticed (Only a few months into the game), I was already running a 1000£ debt. Coupled with my entry on the war against mexico, put the taxes of poor to 100%, Rich and Middle to 60% to start paying off the debt, mobilized, put every army into Texas, except the army stationed in Washington colonial state which I moved to New Mexico. My armies attacked the Mexican armies who were in battle with the Texan army and in two/three battles completely destroyed like 20 brigades. I was in the process of occupying Mexican Texas when I left the computer and my father exited the game as he wanted to go to the computer. >_>

Now I'm trying to get the graphics to work properly before retrying once again.

[Beskar]

Messed with the sliders, apparently my economy colapsed so quickly when I noticed (Only a few months into the game), I was already running a 1000£ debt. Coupled with my entry on the war against mexico, put the taxes of poor to 100%, Rich and Middle to 60% to start paying off the debt, mobilized, put every army into Texas, except the army stationed in Washington colonial state which I moved to New Mexico. My armies attacked the Mexican armies who were in battle with the Texan army and in two/three battles completely destroyed like 20 brigades.

LOL, glad I wasn't living in the era of your game.

Near the end of my game, I had my taxes 12% for working, 12% for middle, 0% for Rich, and was making +160 odd a year in profit.

[Jolt]

LOL, glad I wasn't living in the era of your game.

Near the end of my game, I had my taxes 12% for working, 12% for middle, 0% for Rich, and was making +160 odd a year in profit.

Yeah, usually when it's about paying debt (In my Austria game, there was an industrialization have from VIP factory building events, that saw me go into like a 90.000£ debt, and this is the maximum as before and after that one, there were similarly sized debts I had to pay off), I usually go all out, on sniffing every single coin I can find. At the Austria game's end, I had 0% taxes for poor and rich and 12% for the middle class (Which was the most profitable class to tax, in Austria by the end of the game), and relatively bland tariffs, so in the end it was all worth it. :)

Anyways, as to Vic 2 itself, the huge taxes made several factories enter into bankrupcy and made a great deal of unemployed people (I think the taxes were the cause of the bankrupcies, or maybe it was the bankrupcies which caused my economy to collapse).

[Beskar]

What do the tariffs actually do? I am curious.

I know the basic concept of tariffs. You put tariffs on goods imported, as a form of protectionism, and you get the money. But why the negative tariffs? Wouldn't that end up bankrupting your economy as you are basically paying to have cheaper foriegn goods come into your country, so people won't use the domestic supplies.

Or is it to assist, lets say, the rich, import goods to set up stuff.

In my game, when the Whigs got elected, that annoyed me. I was unable to advance the infrastructure, etc, in the nation. There also doesn't seem to be any State-Capitalism parties (or even planned economies). I would assume State-Capitalism would be the best, as you could build railways and help fund projects, in the form of subs. I had so much money kicking around, and having laize-fair economical party seemed to rob a part of the game from me.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think it's at least partly to make it easier for your POPs to buy goods off the foreign market for their Life/Daily/Luxury needs.

[Marshal Murat]

I have a question about the trade policies as USA
On the trade screen I'm trying to sell alot of tobacco because I there is an enormous surplus. I take it off auto- and try to sell from a "minimum" but it doesn't contribute to my budget no matter how many times I press "confirm trade". Confusion reigns.

[naut]

What do the tariffs actually do? I am curious.

I know the basic concept of tariffs. You put tariffs on goods imported, as a form of protectionism, and you get the money. But why the negative tariffs? Wouldn't that end up bankrupting your economy as you are basically paying to have cheaper foriegn goods come into your country, so people won't use the domestic supplies.

Or is it to assist, lets say, the rich, import goods to set up stuff.
Negative tariffs are subsidies, useful for when your populace can't afford certain key goods that you don't produce internally. And if Vicky2 is like Vicky1, then the rich don't buy goods to build rail-roads/factories, it only costs money from their cash reserves


In my game, when the Whigs got elected, that annoyed me. I was unable to advance the infrastructure, etc, in the nation. There also doesn't seem to be any State-Capitalism parties (or even planned economies). I would assume State-Capitalism would be the best, as you could build railways and help fund projects, in the form of subs. I had so much money kicking around, and having laize-fair economical party seemed to rob a part of the game from me.
There's a trade off. It is much cheaper to have a Laissez-Faire economy, as your capitalists build industry, which in a massive industrialised nation like UK, France, Prussia will save you alot of money and effort. Thus you'll have cash reserves to dump into education, wars, etc. But, unlike state-capitalism and planned economies you can't be strategic with your placement and types of factory. Often you will have one state with many RGOs that can support a factory and many of a certain resource that can be manufactured into better goods, but your capitalists will decide to build in a random state of a random type that may or may not be supported people and raw material wise.


I have a question about the trade policies as USA
On the trade screen I'm trying to sell alot of tobacco because I there is an enormous surplus. I take it off auto- and try to sell from a "minimum" but it doesn't contribute to my budget no matter how many times I press "confirm trade". Confusion reigns.
If you have a massive surplus and try sell it all at once you'll flood the market. Thus forcing prices down. Also, you are likely producing a lot which is causing you to always have tobacco stock in inventory. Check your daily production. For example if I am Prussia and I produce 100 grain a day and sell it all, every day I am still going to have 100 grain in inventory because it is being turned over as fast as it is produced.

[Beskar]

Here is the end of my 15 years map, with text to explain the extent of my control:
https://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2919/usagt.png

I own all the Manifest Destiny terrorities.
Half of (American) British Columbia
Colonising Alberta
Colonising North Western Terrorities
Own Cuba (Slave State decision)
Own Hawaii (did it for the lulz)
Took Sorona and Chi from Mexico
Mexico is in my Sphere of Influence
Panama is in my Sphere of Influence
Own Panama Canal terroritory
Liberia SoI from start of campaign

[al Roumi]

put the taxes of poor to 100%, Rich and Middle to 60% to start paying off the debt


LOL, glad I wasn't living in the era of your game.

Near the end of my game, I had my taxes 12% for working, 12% for middle, 0% for Rich, and was making +160 odd a year in profit.

AFAIK, your administrative efficiency affects the "actual" tax of each POP, so at the beginning of the game, when your admin effic is low, you can actually only tax an absolute max of 30% with the slider is set to max. The tooltip explains this -handily! So it's not so crazy to be maxing your tax sliders at the beginning!

I had a preodered box from amazon uk but they emailed to say it won't be delivered. i've just canceled the order and pre-ordered (for £10 more!) on Impulse. It's alarming how easily I handed that extra tenner over...

[al Roumi]

Is there a link to a good demo AAR? I deleted all my military units and was still losing money.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=490403

(sorry for double post)

Edit:
if you mean you were losing money while at war, that's to be expected -all that supply costs! If you are embarking on a building spree, the same is also true -especially if you've justy ordered a load of buildings. i always noticed a drop in revenue as soon as I'd placed an order, as the AI bought in the neccessary goods.

If you mean during peace time, then you need to reduce your govt expenditure, through the budget screen primarily. Deleting military units is prob the last resort if you are cutting spending, as this will only reduce the number of employed millitary POPs -leaving you with more unemployed POPs. First off you should reduce the millitary spend slider and monitor how that affects the number of millitary POPs (and available divisions) you have.

Loans are also veeeeery cheap to pay off, so don't hesitate to take one out.

[Vladimir]

I wonder if there is a way to export your nation's stats to Excel to track your progression or if this is handled in game. I would be fun to compare your accomplishments with other player's.

[Marshal Murat]

Finally on Steam.

[Monk]

Finally on Steam.

It should be noted there's a special offer on steam, available until Aug 20th. Buy Vicky 2 and you will get Vicky 1: Complete absolutely free.

[Warluster]

Anyone else played the full game yet? I'll be interested to hear some un-biased opinions :sweatdrop:

After a super fast download from GG I've been playing for quite a bit - so far this feels like one of Paradox's finest games yet and I am mighty impressed. Unlike EU3 where everything falls apart and becomes a bore 100 years in, V2 has (I'm at 1865 so far with Belgium) just kept picking up pace so that I have no fingernails left after a very hard, long war with the Dutch. (I got lucky - hunted their 20K strong army across Belgium before occupying Amsterdam and the bottom half of the Netherlands.)

So far I really like this game, and is almost as fun as HOI2 (which is my fav) but will have to give it a few weeks to really prove itself.

Only problems is that it is a bit to easy (I'venever gone near debt and have taxes for Middle and High at 0 and Bottom Class at 20%) and AI can't handle rebels to well. Scotland has declared independance and is in my (Belgium's) SOI and Austria has cracked completely and released Venice, Lombardia, Trieste and Slovakia. Other then a touch of lag (Which is amazing as I have a really bad laptop right now) the games looking pretty sweet.

[Jolt]

From what I saw in Singleton Mosby's Japan AAR, if there is anything Paradox should do is seriously steep up the number of partizans appearing during a war. The major headache anyone would get by fighting China in Victoria 1 was constant rebels spawning in every province. Forcing the armies to have to constantly retreat back to destroy them otherwise, all the occupied provinces would very quickly go back into Chinese partizans hands.

[frogbeastegg]

Heh. I worked out I could get the game cheaper by buying now and stacking pre-order bonuses, vouchers and cashback on game's website than I could if I waited. Put in a quick order on Thursday morning and my £18 copy was here the next day.

So far I'm still deciding who to play as in my first proper game, as well as tinkering around and playing the tutorials. Even the basic level tutorials have had the odd nugget of good info. This is an excellent thing - Vicky2 is the first Paradox game to have tutorials which are aren't worse than completely useless. Wooo! I like it: it shows that they are trying hard to address the decades old problems which have shown up in repeated titles.

The UI itself is a big improvement and the second successful bid to address a long standing problem IMO. At a glance I see it presenting much of the vital info I wanted in the first game right there on the main gameplay screen instead of buring it several layers deep. The 'choose your path' event pop ups are also much improved as they include a sidebar with all of your relevant information. No longer do you have to try and remember your country's minor stats to decide which is best.

There's lots of nice ideas which I can't wait to get fully to grips with. Spheres of influence and war goals being the big two. They look like they will change the gameplay considerably. The new POP system seems like much less of a headache. National focus is a good way to get many things done without being overly labour intensive.

The game itself manages to look fairly attractive. It's the first Paradox game I wouldn't cally ugly. Doesn't matter much, of course, but it's nice.

It's not all rosy. While I've not seen any bugs while playing, the game crashes without fail each time I exit it. There's also one change to the gameplay which I have strong doubts about, and that's the change to the way the market works. I'm not alone in the concern either; the official forum hasmultiple threads about people experiencing this.

In Vicky 1, generally speaking, your nation used anything it produced, Anything left over after your needs would be sold. If you didn't produce enough to fill your needs you would need to buy in. If you were the number 1 producer of steel or another hard to get good you were in a golden situation: your needs were met and you made a tonne of cash by selling the surplus.

Now everything gets sold to the local market full stop. So if you're in the sphere of a major power they'll take all of your iron. Any country with a more 'powerful' position on the local market will then get next dibs. You get their leftovers, assuming there are any. So you can be the number 1 producer of steel and not get to use a single ingot. Anything left after that goes to the world market; if you're not in the SoI of a producer then you're picking up the dregs of the dregs.

Considering that the first game had certain vital goods were supply never caught up with demand this could be a big problem. Iron, steel, machine parts - you can't build a decent nation without them. If you can't get them then you're stuck. If you're not at the top of the big boy charts then you'll struggle to buy, and now the traditional solution (do whatever it takes to make your own) is gone.




I might go with Japan for my first game. The path to Meiji and beyond sounds interesting.

[Marshal Murat]

Playing as France I felt stymied as I kept getting Infamy for trying to protect Morocco/Tunis from the Netherlands or Spain. So I went out on a branch and invaded Egypt. It wasn't that bad an idea, per se, but the infamy has pushed me so far up (and no one declared war), that I think that as I lose infamy I break a barrier, and UK goes all over my French butt. I tried to fix it by improving relations, but it's no use. I figure this time I'll just build up a massive ironclad/monitor fleet, run up my army costs and hold on because I'm tired of trying to be a lion in the sea.

[ShadesWolf]

So far not impressed, cant see anything new :(

I will need to play the tutorial, which is usually a no-no, like to do thinks on my own and only use it if i cant master it myself.

but as i said cant find anything new, just same stuff but in different places.

[Greyblades]

I was playing as Uk and I got an interesting issue:
http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-44/1851Dyeing-of-laughter-.jpg
Practicaly had me dyeing of laughter.
Edit: Huh I couldnt get it to show on here, so I replaced the pic with a direct link.

[Gregoshi]

I've not played any Paradox games, but my interest is definitely elevating in this thread. :2thumbsup:

[Martok]

I was playing as Uk and I got an interesting issue:
http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-44/1851Dyeing-of-laughter-.jpg
Practicaly had me dyeing of laughter.
Edit: Huh I couldnt get it to show on here, so I replaced the pic with a direct link.
Oh, lord. Someone on the Paradox team is overly fond of puns, methinks. Related to Greg, perhaps? ~D




I've not played any Paradox games, but my interest is definitely elevating in this thread. :2thumbsup:
Same here. Both here and elsewhere, reaction to Vicky 2 so far seems to be very positive overall. I'm definitely intrigued.

The tutorials have received wide praise, the gameplay appears to be solid, and there don't seem to be a lot of bugs (which is in apparent stark contrast to HoI3). The one major complaint I've seen so far is in regards to rebellions -- they're both too frequent (and happen for inadequately explained reasons), yet at the same time are too/absurdly weak when they do occur -- and it sounds like this is already going to be addressed in the next patch.

[Beskar]

This is like a mix of HoI3 and Eu3. Sort of "All the best parts out of HoI3 without the rubbish ones" slapped ontop of EU3 HTTT.

Is anyone having any China problems in their games? China is always a serious issue for me, around 1870. They are on the top of the Great Powers with around 1600 industry or similar and a Massive Army. Then it kills all the factories in the game, as China is using up all the resources in their mega-industry, then it kind of all falls apart.

[Marshal Murat]

I figured out that infamy rating invasions is cancelled out by going a massive army/navy building spree. So now I just have constant Jacobin rebellions in France while Reactionaries in my armies are ripping apart my Outre-Mer garrisons. That's the frustrating deal, is that I can't give in to the rebels, but I can't enact reforms without scaring the libs. and conservs.

[Greyblades]

Ah nuts, I found the cheats, now I'm finding it hard to resist tagging the US and forcing them to disband all their forces.

This is like a mix of HoI3 and Eu3. Sort of "All the best parts out of HoI3 without the rubbish ones" slapped ontop of EU3 HTTT.

Is anyone having any China problems in their games? China is always a serious issue for me, around 1870. They are on the top of the Great Powers with around 1600 industry or similar and a Massive Army. Then it kills all the factories in the game, as China is using up all the resources in their mega-industry, then it kind of all falls apart.

Odd I thought china was pretty weak during the games time period, they shouldnt be even close to the great powers outside of population. Hm I think thats something to check on next time I play.

[Beskar]

Odd I thought china was pretty weak during the games time period, they shouldnt be even close to the great powers outside of population. Hm I think thats something to check on next time I play.

Yeah, China has to 'westernise' (along with Japan) by doing certain research, which gets completed around 1870, if the computer isn't dumb. Then it instantly jumps from 33 or so rank, to 9th. Then it begins building up its industry, and since of the huge population full of wealthly people who have spent nothing, and lots of workers, they just industrialise mega quickly, while having a 300-400 man army, which can get up to 600 or more.

It is an utter monster.

If you doubt me, do a new game as china, then cheat just to westernise, and you will see how it just jumps up the rankings (instead of waiting hours upon hours to see it occur)

[al Roumi]

Being a newby at Vicky and only having played EU3 HTTT before, I decided to play it safe and build on what I'd learned from the demo by playing USA. Becasue of my experience of the demo, I was able to get a good start against the Mexicans, forcing them to cede Mexican texas to my Ally Texas, which then acceded to the Union once their war of independance ended.

Since then I've focused on industrialising my North East regions and had two major wars, again against Mexico and then the civil war against the CSA. I think I was lucky in how these two wars panned out, for starters, most of my soldier pops were Yankee (probably around 70%) and war actually triggered while I was ending the liberation of california from Mexico. After breaking Mexico's forces, i was starting the slow grind occupations to give me 100% warscore, and allow me to release all US cores from Manifest destiny (California, arizona, new mex etc) but I decided I'd rather not fight two wars at once and settled with Mexico for California.

When the civil war event fired (you are offered the choice of pursuing the game as the CSA or Union), the traitorous dixie soldiers in my armies split out and formed their own armies, in the same province as their former compatriots. This meant that the worst of the civil war battles actually happened on Mexican soil! My allies (CAR, Columbia, Brazil) also joined the fight and sent detachments north, to help occupy CSA provinces. In the end, the war was short, not very bloody and nothing like its historical precedent. I don't mind this at all though as I would have done everything I could to make it as brief and painless as possible anyway. The point about CSA soldier pops is probably key -although I can't claim to have consciously done anything to keep dixie pops from becoming soldiers, things must have been worse in the North for people to join up from there.

Despite the notices I've seen slapped on Vicky by posters, about its complexitiy and vertical learning curve, Vicky 2 so far seems not to be quite the headache on a DVD I was fearing. The AI trade seems to be saving me alot of micro managing and I'm kind of limited in what I can do with the economy with only 2 national focii (3 soon) and only the ability to build railroads (which I've spread out like carpet, everywhere).

My economy remains the biggest challenge, not because I'm short of cash (running a 2-300 daily surplus with Ed on full, admin on 80% and Mil on 70%) but because of where I want it to be internationaly, and how I want it to run (e.g. lots of factories and lots of craftsmen). Currently, I have 3 states with 2+ developped factories (New England, New York and Pennsylvania), a number of states with a single capitalists built factory (around 3 building fertiliser for some highly frustrating reason as it just doesn't sell!) and nationaly, a craftsman pop of approx 2.3% (Millitary pop stands at 2%). My chief exports are still tobacco, coal and in third place either lumber, steel or fabric -it changes. The vast majority of my POP are farmers, I guess that's unavoidable for the moment but I have a long way to go to create a large proleteriat.

[Greyblades]

If you doubt me, do a new game as china, then cheat just to westernise, and you will see how it just jumps up the rankings (instead of waiting hours upon hours to see it occur)

I'm trying to stop cheating thanks.

[Greyblades]

I'm sorry for the double post but I think you will forgive me when you see this.
https://j.imagehost.org/t/0616/Its_fun_to_stay_at_the.jpg (https://j.imagehost.org/view/0616/Its_fun_to_stay_at_the)

[Beskar]

I'm trying to stop cheating thanks.

I never said to 'cheat', I said you can do it so you can see how China dominates the world so easily. There is a difference.

[naut]

I was playing as Uk and I got an interesting issue:
http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-44/1851Dyeing-of-laughter-.jpg
Practicaly had me dyeing of laughter.
Edit: Huh I couldnt get it to show on here, so I replaced the pic with a direct link.
Yeh. VickyI was also one for the wordplay. There was an event where you'd loose coffee stocks and the ok button said "Gone in an instant".

Thoughts on VickyII. Needs a historical mod to fill up all the empty land so the AI doesn't colonise willy-nilly. Once that comes out I'll buy it.


The one major complaint I've seen so far is in regards to rebellions -- they're both too frequent (and happen for inadequately explained reasons), yet at the same time are too/absurdly weak when they do occur -- and it sounds like this is already going to be addressed in the next patch.
For a VickyI player this is easy to explain. Your PoPs have militancy, which indicates their willingness to revolt, this is tied to plurality and consciousness, the higher these two get the more demanding your population is for reforms. If they don't get their reforms their militancy goes up and they revolt. Basically it's actually a good feature, and if you are experiencing constant revolts then you've gone wrong and allowed militancy to spiral out of control.

[Monk]

Bought it yesterday and am loving it, though the artisans of my population are really getting irritating. Almost every test game i've played to get used to the mehanics again my artisans go into the red immedietly and start to demote. They simply don't have any money to buy their life needs, it's infuriating.

AI trading is worthless as any nation without a factory. Leaving it up to the AI gets half my pops whining they aren't getting their needs and my armies starving in the fields without supply, still tons of micro to be had there even with attempts at automation.

[Furunculus]

the strategy informer review was pretty positive, as are many of the comments here, definately buying it as soon as i get back from poland.

[Greyblades]

I never said to 'cheat', I said you can do it so you can see how China dominates the world so easily. There is a difference.

:stupid:

[al Roumi]

I just saw this on the economist, a chart of global GDP from 1 AD (sort of) to present day, most focus is on Vicky's time period:

http://economist.com/node/16834943

Although GDP is not at all equivalent to V2's "industry" rating, it's interesting to see an approximation of world productivity. Intriguingly, the UK itself never actualy gets bigger than China, but that's not including india in the equation I guess (which was always the whole point of GB's empire...).

[Ja'chyra]

Going by this thread I can't see much difference from HTTT

[Jolt]

Going by this thread I can't see much difference from HTTT

Victoria has nothing to do with HTTT.

[Ja'chyra]

I get that, but the gameplay seems much the same.

[al Roumi]

I get that, but the gameplay seems much the same.

In actual I'd say warfare is quite similar to HTTT, but there is much more to Vicky than warfare. Whereas EU3 is about controlling territory and COTs, Vicky is about developping your nation's industry, managing your population - and their response to the industrialising world, and competing with other world powers for diplomatic/trade spheres to fuel your economy. To my mind, HTTT is about creating a powerful nation or empire, Vicky is about modernising and industrialising that nation/empire and carving the rest of the world up.

In a way, I'd almost liek to see a renaissance mod for Vicky, that would allow you to have the whole pop/politics thing as well as a bit mroe detail on industry and trade that EU3 doesn't have.

[Greyblades]

I'd personaly like to see a save game converter from EU3 to Vicky 2. Sure the rush to africa would become redundant but it would be nice to see a world I've molded snce 1400 enter the imperial age.

[Marshal Murat]

I have to say that it's pretty difficult to "annex" another nation when it's impossible to reach to other nations farthest province. In my game China had this island of a province in Russia, which UK couldn't capture so they had a "war" that lasted for a decade before China just gave in for some reason (maybe it's because they realized that their entire nation was destroyed?).

I'm finally having my first world-war. My infamy is so high that Britain doesn't miss a chance to attack me to contain me (no way no how!!!). I've given up trying to protect my Chinese/Vietnam/Indian possessions because the Brits always outnumbers me. I'm just holding the Mediterranean with my superior (technologically) fleet and building up transports to invade UK proper. Added to that a massive recruiting drive across French Egypt/Africa and a $6m warchest I'm just going to drag this out until I have enough men to conquer UK, and then...THE WORLD!

[frogbeastegg]

The cause of the crazy rebellions appears to have been found (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495551). A missing bracket in the coding. There's a fixed version of the file up for download in post 4.

[frogbeastegg]

Flashofsteel.com has a podcast (http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2010/09/16/three-moves-ahead-episode-82-chris-king-and-more-victoria-2/) interview with King, the lead designer for Vicky 2. It's excellent listening, it goes into real depth on how the game works.

I can't remember if I posted a link to their first (http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2010/08/25/three-moves-ahead-episode-79-victoria-2/) Vicky 2 podcast. Again, much recommended. Three veteran strategy gamers disecting the game shortly after launch.

[frogbeastegg]

1.2 is close, probably next week. Johan is posting parts of the fix list on the official forums. So far we have:

* Politics
- Conservatives now properly allow social reforms at scaled militancy.
- Fixed a consistency with militancy to support reform calculation.
- There is now less of a militancy decrease when enacting a reform.
- You can now only change ruling party once a year.
- Ideology changing on pops from events is no longer divided by 100.
- You can now release union tag countries if nobody with this tag exists (crush krakow->release poland->victory)
- Ruling party is now set to one of the same ideology you had, after a tag change.
- Free peoples now work on union tag countries that already exists
- Pops of the primary culture will never assimilate now.

* Revolutions
- Rebels of union tags can now spawn if no country with culture exist
- Reliability is now applied correctly.
- Rebels now have a bit better organisation, and will be more likely to form in bigger armies.
- Inventions are now inherited when a country is formed.
- When a rebellion ends in any way, all pops who symphatized with that rebelfaction lose militancy.
- Pan-nationalists are now limited in spawning, not in enforcing
- Rebelfactions grow stronger a little faster now.
- Provinces seceding from events will now get militancy&consciousness reset.
- Government change is now updated when rebels enforce their demands, thust nationalists rising under one fog wont change the country they broke free from when they do so, should that country had changed during their insurection.
- All alliances, SoIs and influence cleared by revolutions
- Rebels are now far less likely to rise on their own.
- General risings will now set the organisation of a faction to 0.
- Rebel organisation gains are now colored correctly.
- Soldiers now only revolt when the rest of the faction is close to ready to rise.
- Getting a revolution succeeding in your country now reduces 10% of your current prestige instead of -5.

* Great Powers
- GP intervention now requires the country to have a "Friendly" opinion of the GP
- Once a GP has formed its union tag it no longer gets the free assert hegemnoy CB vs other nations with the union tag.
- Assert Hegemony wargoal changed into removing the all nations within the same culture group from being either in the sphere or being vassals. It also sets the relation back to neutral.
- Changed warscore for Hegemony to 6 for each sphere member or vassal
- Military and industrial score now have higher theoretical maximum
- Halfed impact from leaders on military score.
- In order to intervene in a war, a nation targeted by a wargoal need to have at least cordial opinion of the nation wanting to intervene
- Removing a country from a sphere now incurs an influence drop as well
- Relation now has slightly less effect on suppressing wars if countries have valid CBs
- It's no longer possible to call your sphereleader again and again into a war as a spheree
- Lowered influence cost of discredit, upped the effect(-50% -> -75%)
- You can no longer influence any country you have a truce with.

* Diplomacy
- Its no longer possible to release satellites when at war.
- Relations now have slightly more effect on military access chance
- It's no longer possible to add wargoals to a side that has a Status Quo wargoal added to it
- The first nation that intervenes in a war will always become warleader, subsequent joins will never become warleader
- Called allies never become warleader in Status Quo has been added to that side
- It's no longer possible to negotiate with minors if you have added non-annex wargoals and the other side has added status quo
- All states that are annexed by a minor in a war are now added as "Free people" wargoals(up to 150 warscore worth)
- Status Quo wargoal is now removed if someone annexes a minor(since it will be replaced with Free People wargoals)
- No longer possible to call allies into civil war
- Rebel territory is now disregarded when occupation percentage is compared.
- Releasing nations now reduce infamy and prestige


Looks like I had the right idea, holding off starting any new games until 1.2 was out. This one's going to be best with a fresh game.

[johnhughthom]

Nice little addition to the list:

- Playable Babylon added as a free DLC integrated in the patch

[minishog]

Is Vicky 2 worth buying for £10? If so, how much time does it take learning about it before you can actually play it?

[pevergreen]

Is Vicky 2 worth buying for £10? If so, how much time does it take learning about it before you can actually play it?

Yes, its worth that, IMO.

Very steep learning curve, though if you know any of the other paradox games, less so.

Before you feel comfortable taking any country and doing well? Depends on how fast you learn. If you are completely knew, could be upwards of 30-50 hours.

[Skullheadhq]

Yes, its worth that, IMO.

Very steep learning curve, though if you know any of the other paradox games, less so.

Before you feel comfortable taking any country and doing well? Depends on how fast you learn. If you are completely knew, could be upwards of 30-50 hours.

Funny you, I knew almost everything in ~2 hours. Vicky I however did take me 30-50 hours.

[pevergreen]

I figured out where everything was in a few hours, but I'm still not good enough to classifly myself as a decent player.

EU3, yes, but I had about 40 hours of failed games before I learnt to play properly. Still learning new stuff, thanks to the forums.

[minishog]

Okay, thanks for the replies. It's the last copy in the shop - I think they want to get rid of it. I'll go get it and hope I can get to grips with it eventually (spent more time on EU2 than any other game ever, and then eventually gave up!).

[pevergreen]

Okay, thanks for the replies. It's the last copy in the shop - I think they want to get rid of it. I'll go get it and hope I can get to grips with it eventually (spent more time on EU2 than any other game ever, and then eventually gave up!).

Expect a bit of difference. Even outside of the EU to Vicky transition. Eu2 was very on rails, EU3/Vicky 2 are quite more sandboxy. A lot of people complain on the paradox forums.

[minishog]

My problem with EU2 was that I couldn't find the rails! No matter how much research I did I simply could not understand how to find any sort of strategy that led anywhere other than to disaster. I followed a model plan to get going and it worked as far as it went but then I didn't have a clue. I tried several times again with the same model but the model never worked again!

I should be okay with Vicky2 provided I can suss some sort intuition of what sort of strategy to follow.

Thanks for your advice.

[Xiahou]

$19.99 on Impulse (http://impulsedriven.com/victoria2). I'm tempted to grab it for that price even though I won't likely have time to play it for quite some time....

What do you think? Do these games tend to maintain their price for awhile or if I wait a few months will it cost this much anyhow?

[pevergreen]

It was $12 on steam a few weeks ago.