V&V OOC/Signup Thread I

[Cecil XIX]

This thread is a place where V&V players can talk about things out-of-character, or that don't belong anywhere else. This is also the place where prospective players should declare that they want to join the game.

Order for Receiving New Characters.

Visorslash
mini
TheLastDays
Cecil XIX

[Lord of Lent]

I am almost sure I'll join, so I have one question: Is Magnus still free? And if he is, what are his traits?
I'll post my permanent answer as soon as possible.

[Cecil XIX]

Magnus is taken, and at this time there is no space left for playing a character at the very start. However you're welcome to create your own character to participate Diet session, and given the size of the HRE and how we're probably going to lose several generals in the civil war it probably won't be too long before the game gives us another general.

[Lord of Lent]

Deal! I'll join with my made-up character and I'll try to take the next general.
Would you please PM me if another general is playable?

[Cecil XIX]

Of course.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry about my relatively low level of activity lately. I'm in the middle of exams which finish on Friday. So expect a great detail of activity from me after that.

[Cecil XIX]

Not to worry, there hasn't been much to be active for during the past three or four days.

[Ignoramus]

Come on guys, let's get some discussion in the Diet going! At least amongst the loyalists.

[phonicsmonkey]

well it seems to me that the Kaiser has rather thrown down the gauntlet to the rebels, and that there's not a great deal for us loyalists to add at this point..

[GeneralHankerchief]

Time to ram through the important legislation then. :evilgrin:

[Cecil XIX]

Hey guys, since there's not any discussion happening the Diet proper (Hopefully you're all just plotting the course of the war behind the scenes), I thought I would introduce some Rules Changes for last-minute issue I though of.


Rules Change 1.1

The sentance in rule 7.3, which reads "However, in keeping with the TW series, players in involved in war are given a set turn order, just as the factions are, in the order of their timezone. Players must take their turn in order thirty-six hours to do so." shall be replaced with the sentence "All players involved in a civil war must submit their orders to the GM directly, rather than taking the save and carrying them out personally. Players have fourty-eight hours per turn to do this."

The original rule was added to avoid any 'meta-gaming' where players can gain an advantage from being able to take the save either right when it's released or right before it expires. The proposed change would also have the same effect, but would allow PvP to proceed faster. Those players who think the second idea is preferable should, of course, second this Rules Change and then vote for it.

[flyd]

Cecil, by arranging the turn order by time zone, did you want to make it possible to finish the turn in 24 hours? If so, I'm afraid the list is backwards.

If everyone's playing time is during the same time-of-day - the evening, for example - then the current list guarantees it'll take more than 24 hours. Once the first group, the Americans, get an evening, the next group to get an evening will be the Australians. But the Europeans are next on the list and already asleep, so the Australians will have to wait 24 hours. The list should go from high GMT offset to low.

Also, for subsequent turns, I'd recommend a random starting point for the list, so that the same players don't keep getting whatever advantages there are to playing early/late in the turn.

[Cecil XIX]

I see, that way the time it takes for one player to take the save is made up for by the fact that the next player is behind on the clock. I confess, I didn't think it through the way you've done. If there's no objections, I'll wait until Zim's time is up, then switch it around as flyd has suggested.

[Ignoramus]

I'm having trouble with the save - don't know why. LTC works fine, but when I load the save it returns me to the main menu. So I'll let phonicsmonkey go ahead of me while I reinstall LTC Gold.

[Ignoramus]

I've just noticed that my LTC version number is 1.04. Is that correct?

Edit: I've reinstalled LTC and I'm certain I've got LTC Gold. I have Kingdoms installed, and the game works fine, but it won't allow me to load either Password's or Zim's save.

:huh:

[phonicsmonkey]

I think you need to patch Kingdoms to 1.5 before it will work. My LTC Gold is version 1.5

[Ignoramus]

I think you need to patch Kingdoms to 1.5 before it will work. My LTC Gold is version 1.5

Ah, many thanks!

[phonicsmonkey]

Ah, many thanks!

hope it works! by the way I won't be able to play the save for another six hours or so, so if you get it working before then go ahead and play. just post here to say you're taking it.

[Ignoramus]

It works, thanks.

I edited the descr_sm_factions, but there still is no family tree.

[The Celtic Viking]

Maybe this has been said somewhere and I've missed it, but I'm not completely on the clear on who's on which side. From what I understand, the spawned generals are the papists, but I don't know which ones those would be. :shrug:

Edit: also, two questions: 1) as we have specific turns to take the save, I feel I have to ask this question: is it okay to ask someone else later in the line to move your character for you?

2) Has the war actually started, or do we have to make declarations first? Normally I understand we have to declare, but since this war was decided on already, I'm not sure.

[Ignoramus]

The current situation is.

Salians:

Kaiser Heinrich
Prince Henry
Leopold
Otto von Kassel

Anti-Imperialists:

Magnus von Saxony
Andreas Hümmel
Theodericus der Bartige
Ortwinus Raspe
Vaclav Premyslid

Neutral:

Lothar Zirn

[Cecil XIX]

also, two questions: 1) as we have specific turns to take the save, I feel I have to ask this question: is it okay to ask someone else later in the line to move your character for you?

2) Has the war actually started, or do we have to make declarations first? Normally I understand we have to declare, but since this war was decided on already, I'm not sure.

1) I won't allow this, as there is too much potential for abuse. However, you're worried about some RL problem affecting you in the game, PM me and I'll do what I can to make accomodations.
2) Since this is an event, both sides start out at war with each other. Specific declarations are not necessary.

[The Celtic Viking]

Thanks to both of ye. I had been under the impression that Hummel was a loyalist, so this changes my strategic thoughts a little bit.

[The Celtic Viking]

Some questions. 1) I don't have the correct names. My character, for example, is called Phillipp von Kastilien, while some others lack names totally or have the wrong ones also. Is it supposed to be like that?

No, there's a file that you should download to fix that. You can get it here (http://www.mediafire.com/?5rce4230cbx1p1c). You should install it to your landstoconquer/data folder.

[barcamartin]

Ok, thanks mate! Done, and done. :)

[The Celtic Viking]

Is it just me, or has Vaclav lost his name again? I've tried reinstalling the fix, but it's still gone.

[Cecil XIX]

Is it just me, or has Vaclav lost his name again? I've tried reinstalling the fix, but it's still gone.

Hmm, now that you mention it I've got the same problem. It's not affecting Magnus either, even though his name was also added from another faction. Is everyone experiencing this?

[_Tristan_]

Gonna check right now

[_Tristan_]

Done my checking and everything's fine until save n°6 (the one I posted).

The problem seems to derive from barcamartin's save as Save n°8 misses the names already and barcamartin reported he didn't see the names or got the wrong ones, apparently missing the modified namefile in his install... So to clear things up, the solution would be to re-do the moves from barcamartin's save onwards (7 through 10) and make sure in the future that any saved game has been played with the correct install.

As it is the first turn and I think the people who played after Barca weren't involved in any major moves, it shouldn't pose too big a problem...

[Cecil XIX]

Hmm, that still doesn't explain why there's no problem with Magnus, though. I'll redo the moves myself and see if that works.

[barcamartin]

Sooo, what do I need to do? ;O

[Cecil XIX]

Sooo, what do I need to do? ;O

Coordinating with your allies is always a good use of time. Right now should take a look at the map and try to predict where the best place is to send your army for a favorable outcome in battle. And of course, watch your desmense so you can tell what you need to do in order to keep it in good economic shape. Is that helpful?

[The Celtic Viking]

If there are any questions, or suggestions on how to improve this report, please feel free to discuss it with me.

Using the right picture for the financial summary might be an idea. ~;)

[Cecil XIX]

All right, I can't download the save for some reason. While I figure out how to handle that, Zim and Elite Ferret need to decide if they want to fight this online or not. If not, we'll have a poll as to whether it will be a "long" or "short" battle.

[Zim]

Does this work better?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=201&id=5273

I'd prefer to avoid the online mp battle given the major time zone difference and lag issues I always have trying to play TW MP battles. EF?

[barcamartin]

Coordinating with your allies is always a good use of time. Right now should take a look at the map and try to predict where the best place is to send your army for a favorable outcome in battle. And of course, watch your desmense so you can tell what you need to do in order to keep it in good economic shape. Is that helpful?

Haha, it is indeed, but I have been doing that. ;)

I meant more on the sibject of my save not working, and me needing to change some files? Or is that taken care of? Also, my treasury. Is my starting army supposed to cost more than my starting treasury? :)

[Cecil XIX]

Haha, it is indeed, but I have been doing that. ;)

I meant more on the sibject of my save not working, and me needing to change some files? Or is that taken care of? Also, my treasury. Is my starting army supposed to cost more than my starting treasury? :)

Well in regards to the first issue, if you've already downloaded the proper names file than things should be fine. As for the second, it is indeed. I've already given the HRE three times as much starting money as normal, and I didn't want to give any more. If it looks like it's going to be too much of a problem after the war is over, we'll deal with it then. The simple fact is the Reich really can't support ten generals this early in the game, although the Civil War should fix that.

[Ferret]

I'd prefer to avoid the online mp battle given the major time zone difference and lag issues I always have trying to play TW MP battles. EF?

*Sees mercs* :shocked: *runz*

:clown:

[phonicsmonkey]

*Sees mercs* :shocked: *runz*

:clown:

mwuhahaha

Heil das Kaiser!

[Zim]

Can I count this as a victory? :beam:

[Lord of Lent]

mwuhahaha

Heil das Kaiser!

I really hope for GeneralHankerchief the Kaiser is not a "das"...

[barcamartin]

I really hope for GeneralHankerchief the Kaiser is not a "das"...

At least he's not a "die". ;D

[phonicsmonkey]

At least he's not a "die". ;D

Der? (duh)

Mein Deutsche = scheizer

By the way any of my loyalist chums can take my turn for me - I have no ability to play the game right now

[deguerra]

Der? (duh)

Mein Deutsche = scheizer


Yes, "der Kaiser". Sadly, when the Kaiser becomes an indirect object (ie Hail to the Kaiser) the "der" then becomes a "dem", thus: "Heil dem Kaiser".

This is still better than if the same thing happens to a feminine word (ie the Empress) being and indirect object, where "die Kaiserin" then changes to "der Kaiserin" to make the confusion perfect.

Isn't German fun? :laugh4:

Gosh I'm glad German is my first language because I sure as hell wouldn't have picked it up otherwise. Much respect to those who do.

Now get on with the fighting already :furious3:

-deguerra

[barcamartin]

Haha, I read German for five years in school. Had to choose between German, French or Spanish. Man, all these "great" grammatic rules with thousands of exceptions! Gaaarh, so glad I don't have that subject anymore (even though I was pretty good at it, and got the topgrade in it every year).

[_Tristan_]

Studied it for seven years and forgot all about it the day after I graduated... Never spoke a word of it since...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sorry for the delay, I'll get to the save later tonight. Busy weekend...

[Ignoramus]

Can we get some stories happening? I was going to post one on Andreas a while back, but I never did. I'll try and knock something up soon. Also, I think the saves cycle is taking a bit too long- it should be sped up a little.

[Cecil XIX]

Can we get some stories happening? I was going to post one on Andreas a while back, but I never did. I'll try and knock something up soon. Also, I think the saves cycle is taking a bit too long- it should be sped up a little.

Yes, I agree on both points. At the next Diet session I'll re-propose my Rules Change from last session, I think it would be preferable if orders were submitted and implemented simultaneously rather than one at a time.

[phonicsmonkey]

Can we get some stories happening?

I love writing stories. In fact I have often wondered whether I write stories because I play these games, or whether I play the games as an excuse to write stories....RL is kicking my ass at the moment but I'll get up to speed on some story writing soon.

[_Tristan_]

Where can I find the game rules ? I need to check some options but I can't find them in the threads anymore...

[The Celtic Viking]

In the first post of the Imperial Diet & Rules thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?130301-Imperial-Diet-amp-Rules).

[Ignoramus]

Just a quick question, Cecil. When will the Great Saxon Rebellion event be over? When one side is completely defeated? When one side surrenders? When one side has no more settlements? Thanks.

[Cecil XIX]

*7.2 An internecine conflict will end when all participants are dead or agree to peace.

Andreas Hummel and Vaclav Premyslid have sided with the Kaiser, so they have essentially agreed to peace. Ortwinus Raspe is captured, so if he does not agree to peace Prince Henry can simply execute him. That leaves Magnus von Saxony and Theodericus der Bartige.

[TheFlax]

*7.2 An internecine conflict will end when all participants are dead or agree to peace.

Andreas Hummel and Vaclav Premyslid have sided with the Kaiser, so they have essentially agreed to peace. Ortwinus Raspe is captured, so if he does not agree to peace Prince Henry can simply execute him. That leaves Magnus von Saxony and Theodericus der Bartige.

Theodericus der Bartige has surrendered to the Kaiser, if I am not mistaken.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bartige has formally surrendered to me. I need to fire out a bunch of PMs and take the save, probably within a couple of hours.

[The Celtic Viking]

That's correct, though I probably should've posted something about it here. I blame reality for getting in the way.

[Cecil XIX]

Ah, wasn't sure if it was public or not.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hey guys, my laptop got stolen last night so my activity will be limited at best. I'll probably still be able to RP but most likely will not be able to take my turns. Therefore, I'm requesting that a fellow loyalist take the save for me, at least this time.

If I find that I can't continue playing, I'll drop out, but I only want to do that as a last resort.

[Lord of Lent]

That's terrible! I hope it's insured.

[Cecil XIX]

You've my sympathies as well GH, I hope you're able to make a quick recovery. And good show phonicsmonkey on the story and battle report, hopefully I'll be able to contribute myself by the end of the turn.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey guys, my laptop got stolen last night so my activity will be limited at best. I'll probably still be able to RP but most likely will not be able to take my turns. Therefore, I'm requesting that a fellow loyalist take the save for me, at least this time.

If I find that I can't continue playing, I'll drop out, but I only want to do that as a last resort.

sorry to hear that, it's a terrible thing to have your machine stolen - I hope you end up with a much better one courtesy of the insurer and that your data losses are minimal.

And Cecil I'm glad you enjoyed them, I've been meaning to get started for a while...

[Ignoramus]

Sad to hear that GH. Let us know how you go.

Who's turn is up?

[Ignoramus]

I'll be away for a week. Will post Cecil my orders.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for the sympathy guys. :yes:

Conrad... Steffen eh? Hoboy, I should watch out for this one.

[phonicsmonkey]

Does the Polish/Hungarian deal mean the Magyar have broken off their alliance with the Reich?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cecil, I need your orders. :yes:

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm not quite sure what's going on here with the halted progress, but if it's my turn you can just skip me and go directly to Tristan. I have nothing to change in the save.

[_Tristan_]

Next ! (http://www.mediafire.com/file/fmb8bftd8pq0ycb/V%26V%201084-2.sav)

[TheFlax]

Due to a trip to Malta and Rome lasting until the 30th of October, I will not be available to play my save. I ask that any loyalist please move my character to follow Heinrich and to send one of my companies (unit) to garrison Beslau. I will have internet at least for part of the trip, so if any special situation arises, I will be able to give more specific instructions to whomever decides to sub for me. Thank you for your comprehension. :bow:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just an activity update, I ordered a new laptop a while ago, delivering it to my home address (as opposed to school) under the assumption that I'd pick it up when I went home for Fall Break this past weekend. Unfortunately, the weekend came and went, I went back to school, and the computer came in on Monday - so I missed it by one day. :wall: I do not trust my university's packaging system, so I'll pick it up next time I go home. This will most likely be around American Thanksgiving time, although there is a slight chance I'll come home earlier if the Phillies somehow get their act together and win the World Series.

So, worst case scenario, I'll be without access to the save for roughly one more month.

[Cecil XIX]

Cecil, I posted my save in the wrong thread. Does the one you posted above take into this into account or not ?

EDIT : it doesn't... How do proceed from this ?

Tristan, I'll redo your moves when I take the save at the end of the turn. If you want you can send me a list of everything you did.

But from now on, any saves posted outside the proper thread will not be counted.

EDIT: Also, since TheFlax is unavailable, it would be best if one of his allies could makes his move for him by following the instructions he posted in this thread. If not I'll take care of it tomorrow, as I have work tonight.

[phonicsmonkey]

I can move for Flaxy in about ten hours when I get home.

[Cecil XIX]

In light of the experience we have had with the war, I am reintroducing this Rules Change:


Rules Change E1.1

The sentance in rule 7.3, which reads "However, in keeping with the TW series, players in involved in war are given a set turn order, just as the factions are, in the order of their timezone. Players must take their turn in order thirty-six hours to do so." shall be replaced with the sentence "All players involved in a civil war must submit their orders to the GM directly, rather than taking the save and carrying them out personally. Players have fourty-eight hours per turn to do this."

[Ignoramus]

Oh, by the way, I'm able to do my saves again.

[TheFlax]

I'm back and able to participate again.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cecil, you might want to make the poll public. Even I can't see who voted for who.

[Cecil XIX]

Cecil, you might want to make the poll public. Even I can't see who voted for who.

Indeed, it looks like I'll have to create a new thread. Unless someone can change the poll settings?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I can't make it public once the results are set to private. The only things I can do are meddle with the result count and add/alter choices.

[Cecil XIX]

In that case, would you mind deleting the first poll thread? I've posted a new one here. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?131453-Imperial-Diet-Voting-Thread-I.2)

Also,

I fear our old friend Zim is gone for good, or at least for a good while. I have had to replace him in the two hotseats I'm hosting. Should we try to do the same here?

I do hope he'll be back soon. Unfortunately, I do intend to kill off Prince Henry if that's the case. Also Tristan, I'll add your income from your sack of Thorn when the turn starts back up.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Quick update: I'll most likely be back and firing on all cylinders again this weekend.

[TheFlax]

How do I go about accepting someone as a vassal and giving him a province? Can we make House threads? Or is there another plan?

[Zim]

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything. :clown:

[phonicsmonkey]

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything. :clown:

Welcome back Zim!

[Cecil XIX]

How do I go about accepting someone as a vassal and giving him a province? Can we make House threads? Or is there another plan?

All those things can be done at your discretion. House Threads should be made by the House Leaders, as that lets the Leaders edit the threads. Accepting vassals can be done in any way that is satisfying to both parties, so long as it is announced in public. Same with giving provinces.


Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything. :clown:

Good to have you back, Zim! I'll add you to the queue.

[Ignoramus]

What happens to the Duchy of Swabia?

[phonicsmonkey]

What happens to the Duchy of Swabia?

I'm assuming that depends on the Kaiser.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'll take a look at things once I get access to the save this weekend. For now, we'll operate under the assumption that the Kaiser is exercising executive power and running the Duchy himself until things get sorted out.

[phonicsmonkey]

hey what's the rule on adoptions? I couldn't find anything in the rules about it..

[Cecil XIX]

hey what's the rule on adoptions? I couldn't find anything in the rules about it..

There are no rules, because it is entirely up to the discretion of the player.

[phonicsmonkey]

Got it, so I can accept him if I want but I have to pay his upkeep. Presumably if another human joins the game this guy would be a potential avatar?

I'll take him please.

[Cecil XIX]

Indeed, that is all correct.

[Zim]

Off on vacation for the next five days, then i'm back for good.

[Zim]

I'm back!

:charge:

[phonicsmonkey]

Welcome back Zim!

[Zim]

Thanks. ~:cheers:

I'm available for either of the new adoptions if noone ahead of me takes them.

[Cecil XIX]

Thanks. ~:cheers:

I'm available for either of the new adoptions if noone ahead of me takes them.

Welcome back, Zim. Speaking of which, you can have your choice of Helmut or Jens.

[Zim]

They're both still available? I'll go with Helmut then.

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm sorry for going AWOL for a while - school and all that. I'll come back on sunday again.

[Cecil XIX]

The next turn will begin tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

[Cecil XIX]

Hey, did Becker pay the upkeep for his bodyguard? I shouldn't be paying that anymore should I?

The change is not automatic, it requires to tell me in public or private. And keep in mind Herr Becker does not have his own source of income.

[phonicsmonkey]

The change is not automatic, it requires to tell me in public or private. And keep in mind Herr Becker does not have his own source of income.

Ok - so do I keep paying it until he gets a province? Or can I elect to have him pay it and go into debt, even without an income?

[Cecil XIX]

Ok - so do I keep paying it until he gets a province? Or can I elect to have him pay it and go into debt, even without an income?

You can force him to go into debt.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'd like to do that please - rather him than me! Can we make it retroactive to the beginning of this turn? I just assumed that he would automatically start paying his own upkeep as soon as he became human-controlled...

[Cecil XIX]

I'd like to do that please - rather him than me! Can we make it retroactive to the beginning of this turn? I just assumed that he would automatically start paying his own upkeep as soon as he became human-controlled...

Since this is the first time this issue has come up, I'll allow it. But from now on, those who do not make the change will live with the consequences.

[Ignoramus]

Guys, I must say I'm struggling to maintain interest in the game. It's a great concept, and the first few weeks were really great. But now we've gone down to 2 effective players and there's no intrigue. What do you say to starting over and starting off with a fully fledged Diet session, with offices for election etc?

[phonicsmonkey]

It looks as though we are three, plus Cecil, now that Zim has rejoined.

I don't mind starting again now I've had a practice run at this kind of game. Also happy to continue if others pipe up and say they want to..

[Zim]

I'm still here. Just didn't need to take the last save with Cecil moving Helmet right where I would have.

I'm game for anything, although I'd hate to see the first Duchy of Flanders in all of these games be retconned by a restart. ~;)

[The Celtic Viking]

Actually, we're technically 4 as I re-emerged from inactivity yesterday, as I promised to do. However, my re-emergence was kind of under the radar, as it was through PM.

Just seeing the debt I've fallen into during my absence, I feel inclined to support a restart. :sweatdrop:

[Cecil XIX]

This is an important question, and the fact that so many have commented so quickly suggests that a restart could do some good. Give me some time to think about how to do this. I'll present a plan, then we can put it to a vote. I like the idea of having an elected office, but as the traditional chancellor no longer makes I'll have to think about what offices we could have. Feel free to offer suggestions, I'll give anything due consideration.

[phonicsmonkey]

If we are going to start again, is there any interest in doing a late era game instead?

[Cecil XIX]

I'd very much prefer not to do a complete restart. I think we can get by without something so extreme. I'm still thinking about changing the scenario, although I haven't come to a decision yet. I have got some ideas for new offices though, stolen rather shamelessly from Crusader Kings (http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/crusader-kings-complete). Tell me what you think, particularly if these are roles you think would be fun to assume.

Marshal:
Term: Self-nominated and elected every normal Diet Session.
Powers:
(1) Sole control over the Reich's mercenaries.
(2) Can recruit and disband mercenary regiments in any army, can move mercenary regiments to and from armies or assign to/remove from an Elector
(3) Recruitment and upkeep are paid for by a pool of funds which is sustained by an income tax on all electors automatically paid each turn.
Penalties:
(1) If the pool runs out, mercenaries are paid for out of the Marshal's treasury.
(2) The Kaiser sets the 'Mercenary Tax' rate for the pool.

Chancellor:
Term: Appointed by the Kaiser each Diet Session.
Powers: Can move Diplomats and conduct diplomacy, just as the Kaiser can.

Spymaster:
Term: Self-nominated and elected every normal Diet Session.
Powers: Sole control over all spies and assassins, can recruit them in any settlement with the owner's permission.
Penalties: Pays for all spies and assassins out of pocket.

Steward:
Term: Appointed by the Kaiser, serves at his pleasure.
Powers:
(1) His settlement limit, minus his settlements, is added to the Kaiser's.
(2) Sets tax rates for the Kaiser's settements when in the Kaiser's territory.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Can I suggest something?
I had an idea for a EB Romani campaign where players would create a character for themselves. In-game characters would be just pawns in the hands of the players. This means that if player is appointed to lead an army that is on the other side of the empire he doesn't have to travel several turns before he can actually control it.
However, this (player made up characters being above the in-game characters) can't be used with most factions in M2TW.

[The Celtic Viking]

Why not elect the next Kaiser?


Can I suggest something?
I had an idea for a EB Romani campaign where players would create a character for themselves. In-game characters would be just pawns in the hands of the players. This means that if player is appointed to lead an army that is on the other side of the empire he doesn't have to travel several turns before he can actually control it.
However, this (player made up characters being above the in-game characters) can't be used with most factions in M2TW.

Maybe I'm just dumber than most, but could you explain this idea a little further? (Btw, when/if you start this game, you can count me in. :yes:)

[Cecil XIX]

All right, I've made a decision. We will have a reset, in the form of the time-skip. I'm going to be playing ahead for about ten turns or so, and when we resume the Reich will be a very different situation, including some rules changes.

That doesn't mean you all will have nothing to do though! Each turn there will be a written update on events to keep you appraised, and along the way each of you will receive one or more PMs giving you a choice to make that will influence the state of the Reich upon the resumption of normal play. The end result will be a more functional Reich, as well as some storytelling hooks to make things especially interesting.

I'm extremely grateful that so many chimed in on the 29th to say that you were still interested in playing. I can promise you that when normal play resumes you'll quite a bit of intrigue as you all struggle on how to begin to recover what will be lost.

[Cecil XIX]

Can I suggest something?
I had an idea for a EB Romani campaign where players would create a character for themselves. In-game characters would be just pawns in the hands of the players. This means that if player is appointed to lead an army that is on the other side of the empire he doesn't have to travel several turns before he can actually control it.
However, this (player made up characters being above the in-game characters) can't be used with most factions in M2TW.

It sounds like you have your own vision for a game. Like The Celtic Viking I'd be happy to join it, but based just on what I've heard I think both of our visions would be best served in their own games. I'd be happy to discuss it in another thread though, as I'm always interested in new ideas.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Maybe I'm just dumber than most, but could you explain this idea a little further? (Btw, when/if you start this game, you can count me in. :yes:)


It sounds like you have your own vision for a game. Like The Celtic Viking I'd be happy to join it, but based just on what I've heard I think both of our visions would be best served in their own games. I'd be happy to discuss it in another thread though, as I'm always interested in new ideas.

The idea I had was something like this:
Players will play as the senators in the Roman Senate. They make decisions and elect people to offices just like in previous games but this time they don't play as in-game characters(generals, agents). Players are free to create their own character.
Generals and agents can be controlled by any player with the proper authority. For example Consul can move every army whether they are general led or not.
This does not take away the chance for a player to lead army like in previous games. They just need the Senate to elect them to lead it. Also, this means that players can take control over armies that are otherwise too far.
For example: Senate elects Player A to control 3rd Legion that is in Egypt. In previous games you needed ships to carry your avatar to Egypt but in this time you can take control over that Legion right after the Senate session ends.
Anyway, I hope this explains a little bit better what I had in mind. :embarassed:
And I'm not starting anything in the next few months.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, is this game dead or not?

[phonicsmonkey]

It's live and we're working through event 2, mostly by PM to and from Cecil at the moment..

[Cecil XIX]

Indeed, it's as phonics monkey said. Unfortunately next week is finals week, so I'm not working through things as fast as I would under normal circumstances. I am still working though, and things will start going much quicker starting on Thursday.

[phonicsmonkey]

Woohoo! I'm Kaiser!

[Cecil XIX]

Just an FYI, today I finished my semester. I've now got enough free time that things will be proceeding at a much faster pace.

[Zim]

Nice to see Helmut had a role in the assault. :beam:

[Zim]

Another season passed.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Cecil XIX]

Merry Christmas indeed!

[The Celtic Viking]

Merry Christmas!

[mini]

The idea I had was something like this:
Players will play as the senators in the Roman Senate. They make decisions and elect people to offices just like in previous games but this time they don't play as in-game characters(generals, agents). Players are free to create their own character.
Generals and agents can be controlled by any player with the proper authority. For example Consul can move every army whether they are general led or not.
This does not take away the chance for a player to lead army like in previous games. They just need the Senate to elect them to lead it. Also, this means that players can take control over armies that are otherwise too far.
For example: Senate elects Player A to control 3rd Legion that is in Egypt. In previous games you needed ships to carry your avatar to Egypt but in this time you can take control over that Legion right after the Senate session ends.
Anyway, I hope this explains a little bit better what I had in mind. :embarassed:
And I'm not starting anything in the next few months.


Interesting concept.

Although you lose the visual bond with the ingame character, you gain a lot more freedom for RP.
You can ofcourse, always transport the general with console command after a wait time agreed in advance in the rules if ppl dont want to step of using actual ingame chars

Anyway, I've been away for several years.
Now, single again, living with parents again = huge amount of game time.

I'm not so into the HRE, so I'm skipping the current ongoing on.

If you go through with any other, i'm game.


(PS Ibn, I still have some of the rules I proposed for the earlier romani RP we had going on for a while here. Let me know if u want to glance at them.)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm trying to put together some rules for a game that combines MP battles, roleplaying, more than one faction, political fights in the councils, simple map etc...

It will be similar to the EB MP campaign idea I posted in my blog.

[Cecil XIX]

Just FYI, I've come down with a cold so the next update will be delayed a bit.

[Zim]

Short delay. :beam:

[Cecil XIX]

All right, soon it'll be the tenth turn since the Time of Troubles began, and after more than a month at that. The Time of Troubles will end soon, and the next Diet Session will begin on Friday at 7:00PM GMT. Tomorrow I'll post the save we'll be starting with, as well as an updated version of the rules with the new offices I introduced earlier. Please use that time to reaclimate yourself with things.

I'll also be spending the week before friday on a new recruitment drive. Feel free to contact people you know on your own initiative to get them into the game as well.

[Zim]

Looking forward to the restart.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hi Cecil - I took the liberty of advertising (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=8844881#post8844881) this game over at the TWC where I've been trying to drum up new Throne Roomies.

Hope you don't mind - maybe it will shake out a new player or two..

[Cecil XIX]

Not at all. I'm not too familar with TWC, so I appreciate it.

[Nightbringer]

you know what, this looks really awesome!

I wanna play!

[Zim]

Welcome Nightbringer. If I recall there is a character still immediately available so that should mean a quick entry into the game, although Cecil (the GM) will be able to clarify that.

[Lord of Lent]

Welcome Nightbringer. Cecil PM'ed me there's a new character available. I would have played as him but I fell, resulting in a complex fraction in my left arm, which means I cannot participate. I do enjoy reading your posts, though. I'm happy this game lasted longer than VI...

[Cecil XIX]

We've spoken before, but welcome Nightbringer. I can confirm here that he will indeed take Jens Herden.

[Zim]

:laugh4: That's what I get for changing profile settings late at night. Changed my user name instead of user title. I guess for 21 days I'll be "Becker". Might as well make Zim my user title for the duration....maybe it will alleviate some confusion. :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just don't die before then. :laugh4:

[Zim]

I'll do my best, although I recall I tend to have bad luck with avatars in these games, with the trademark move of handily winning the battle only to have the general die charging some peasants from a flank or something. :clown:

On an unrelated note it's nice to see our kaiser back, and remaining true to form. Apparently ten years of illness have not changed him a bit.

[phonicsmonkey]

Isn't it Helmut anyway? :clown:

[Zim]

Probably but whenever I see it I think "Helmet". :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

On an unrelated note it's nice to see our kaiser back, and remaining true to form. Apparently ten years of illness have not changed him a bit.

Heh, thanks. There's a very good chance that I'll actually be doing my undergraduate thesis on the real-life version of the Emperor next year, so I may as well enjoy him while I can. :tongue:

(Proof that the .Org has changed my life: I'm most likely going to write the single-most important paper of my life next year for a character I initially RP'd for a few months in 2007. Crazy world, eh?)

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm most likely going to write the single-most important paper of my life next year for a character I initially RP'd for a few months in 2007. Crazy world, eh?)

Awesome

[Zim]

You've got me beat GH. I've written papers partly due the Org but not a graduate thesis.

I have met some of my closest friends here, at least one of whom may have influenced my career choice. :yes:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And I thought who was this unknown moderator! Someone I had never heard of..

Anyway, wear your helmet well Becker. ~;)

I wish I could have time to join this. Unfortunately I'm planning hosting games in Gameroom and Campus Martius. ~:(

[Zim]

The truly disappointing thing is that Helmut doesn't have a helmet on in his avatar pic. Ah well, C'est la vie...

If you find yourself with more time in the future you're welcome to join us. :yes:

So I just checked the save and Cecil wasn't kidding when he said we'd come back to a more interesting situation :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Of course I will join!
I have been checking the threads always when it says that there are new posts in them. ~;)

[Zim]

Only one thing to vote on? It's interesting how much more is in the hands of the individual players in this rule set. If I recall back in KoTR you'd often have a a ton to vote on. Even if not too much else was going on then just because capturing any settlement required an edict.

And of course we haven't gone on long enough to have much to disagree on. Actually, there's already some obvious tension. It just hasn't come to light yet. I'm curious how things will look during the next Diet. :yes:

[Cecil XIX]

That's a fantastic story, GH. It's amazing how King of the Romans can still bring such vivid memories to mind after all these years.

[mini]

While waiting for Ibn to create something new and exciting, I'm considering joining this one, as soon as I find my game cd's :)
What are the current available avs?

[Cecil XIX]

Right now there are no avatars available. However, it is likely that one or two will open by the end of the next diet session. In the meantime, you are welcome to participate in the discussion as your own character either independently or as part of one of the four Duchies: Austria, Bavaria, Bohemia or Holland.

[Nightbringer]

Hi all, so am I correct that we are waiting for the Third diet session before doing any more turns, and that the diet session has not yet started? Or is the third diet session just the posts in the Imperial Diet/ Rules thread.

@Cecil (your messages are maxed out)
Do you think you could tell me Jens Herden's age, traits, and stats, or give me a way to view them.
I don't want to create the character or post anything as him before I have seen those because it will bother me to no end if they don't fit together to some degree.

Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I just don't want to do anything that will screw up my options in the future (roleplay wise)

[phonicsmonkey]

hi NB, sorry I didn't answer your pm yet

yes the next turn will take place once the diet session is over. you're right in that the diet session is the posts in the diet thread as well as any polls that come out of it. you should vote in the poll too.

you should be able to access the save that Cecil posted in the saves and turn by turn thread to take a look at your character. you'll just need to install the mod first and cecil should have sent you the hotseat pw - let me know if he didn't and I'll send it by pm

[Cecil XIX]

No problem Nightbringer. The way it works is that every ten turns we "pause" the game to have three days of discussion in the Diet then two days of voting. The Third Diet Session has indeed been the posts in the Diet/Rules Thread, a seperate thread is started only for the voting since we need new polls each time. Here's a pic of Jens Herden for you, and as phonicsmonkey says you can also access the save.

https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/8517/jensherden.jpg

The password is "Reich", it's only there so players can't access other factions. In addition, please download this. (http://www.mediafire.com/?b6y3u7by4tw4cpt) This contains three files that need to be overwritten into landstoconquer\data. They serve to revert the HRE back to a normal family tree, and also add some names from other factions.

[Cecil XIX]

Hi Cecil

it'd be great if you could post the order of play again so we all know when to take the save.

No worries phonicsmonkey, that was only for the Civil War. Now it's strictly first-come-first-served.

[Nightbringer]

Okay, I think just one more question.

What is mine? I know I have no home city, but I am in Nuremberg right now with a large army and Helmut, is that army mine to control, are any other troops mine to control? Or do I just work out which of Phonics' troops I get to control, in which case, could you please pm me phonics and tell me what I am controlling, if anything.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

While waiting for Ibn to create something new and exciting, I'm considering joining this one, as soon as I find my game cd's :)
What are the current available avs?

Perhaps this could interest you: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132878-EB-MP-campaign

Though, I will not start it before March-April.

[Ignoramus]

Hello again guys. Glad to join in again.

One thing though. Why wasn't Agnes married to Andreas Hummel, as per the Kaiser's agreement with me?

[phonicsmonkey]

hi buddy

that might be my fault. I was approached by the GM during the event and asked to decide what to do with Agnes. First I tried to use her as a bargaining chip to get peace with some of our foes but when that didn't work I reasoned that the Prinz would be keen to reward the loyalty of Becker...

I was not aware (or had forgotten about) the agreement between Hummel and the Kaiser.

It rings a bell now though although I can't seem to find it in the threads. Was it public, IC knowledge? (ie. should the Prinz have known about it?)

[Ignoramus]

(Don't worry, I'm not angry OC, only IC)

It might be partly my fault for not following the TIme of Troubles too closely, but I thought it was public(GH had just told me by a PM that the Kaiser was sending her north to Antwerp to marry Hummel).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh thank God, I've been missing this kind of Diet shenanigans for so long.

Answer on Agnes is coming. I have an OOC answer, need to think of something IC.

[phonicsmonkey]

happy to play it, IC, that the Prinz just didn't know about it

[Ignoramus]

Obviously IC Hummel's very annoyed now that he's not in the Imperial family now(and I'm a little disappointed), but just go with it IC - it's the Kaiser's call.

[phonicsmonkey]

Understandable I suppose.

[Ignoramus]

Don't worry phonics - it's not your fault. I'm always very careful to keep disputes in the IC realm(something which these games allow very well). Just don't be surprised if Hummel doesn't like Leopold.

[phonicsmonkey]

hey no worries, I'm not taking this personally! Conflict is fun. And Leo can stick up for himself as you will shortly see... :laugh:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Aaaaand we have liftoff, nicely done so far guys. :yes: I think I'll wait for Hummel to make his reply before the Kaiser steps in.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hummel better not reply! Leo's just getting started on the Dutchman

[Ignoramus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hümmel

[phonicsmonkey]

yes, I'm aware that he's not really Dutch, but he is Duke of Holland, hence Leo has decided to call him a Dutchman to annoy him

[phonicsmonkey]

I feel I ought to explain my actions during the event OOC as well as in. With regard to the Hamburg deal, I was originally trying to get peace and an alliance in exchange for a marriage between Agnes and their prince. unfortunately he was already married and they (cecil) basically gave me an ultimatum of hamburg or nothing, pointing out that the poles were about to take it.

At the time I didn't know who else was still playing and I also reasoned that Hamburg had been Tristan's (who had started all the issues with the Danes in the first place) and so while I knew it was now (and recently) Igno's I figured that if we came out of the event and Igno was still playing I (as Kaiser) could make it up to him somehow.

I was actually pretty pleased to get 1000 florins per turn an alliance and peace for an underdeveloped castle that only brought in 500 per turn.

As for Princess Agnes I genuinely didn't remember at the time that there was any prior arrangement. I now feel like I might have known it at some point but forgotten - maybe GH pm'd me at some stage? I have long since deleted it if that's the case.

I'm sorry if anything I did was out of the spirit of the way these games are played - it's my first one of these and I've felt all along like I was totally winging it.

Cecil, I assume that tribute from the Danes goes to the Kaiser and not to the Prinz? If it goes to me let me know and I'll give it to Igno instead.

[Cecil XIX]

I could have had Agnes marry Hummel, but I chose to have the Prinz settle the issue because he was de facto ruler at the time, and because I was hoping for some IC shenanigans.

Incidentally, if you'll look at the records you can see that of the 1000 florin tribute, 250 have gone to the Prinz for his role as de facto Kaiser while the other 750 have been going to Hummel. The former while switch to Heinrich, the de facto and de jure Kaiser, while the latter will continue to go to Hummel as a standing order until it is changed by the Kaiser.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Around the time my computer was stolen, I had three suitors for Agnes: Hummel, Otto von Kassel, and King Knud of Denmark's son as played by Cecil. I was semi-publicly entertaining offers for all three, but at the same time I knew that she was going to get married to a player character. I may have decided which of the two she was going to marry and told someone, but there are 1,803 PMs between my inbox and sent messages that I need to look through to find it, and I have no desire to do so at 3 in the morning when I have class in 7 hours.

Then my computer got stolen, and my activity steadily decreased to the point where I just never bothered to reinstall M2TW and LTC on the new machine until now, by which point everything had passed.

[phonicsmonkey]

darn it, just when we get going again we lose a character

the french eh, can't trust 'em.

[Ignoramus]

I realised that Heinrich couldn't arrive in time to come to my aid, and I figured that my cavalry would be better in the open field rather than in the city. He didn't have anything to lose, and given the way he'd been treated in the Diet at that point, he didn't care.

I'm annoyed he got killed, but there was no way to get a Hummel dynasty so it's not a huge loss.

[Nightbringer]

Well damn, I guess we don't have any more avatars do we? Sorry iggy

@ post below, dont worry about it, I only need so much intrigue on my first turn XD

[Ignoramus]

I had GH's PM somewhere, but it was about the time his PC got stolen and then the game nearly stalled.

I'm really kicking myself for attempting the sally now - it was a really stupid thing to do. Now I've gone and spoilt some developing intrigue. Sorry guys. :embarassed:

[phonicsmonkey]

hey, don't beat yourself up mate, it sounds like there wasn't a lot of choice anyway. those dastardly french!

I haven't been a part of other games like these but I have lurked a bit and watched them and I have to say I think that enabling the hotseat so that Cecil controls all the bad guys makes this significantly harder.

we really can't just steamroller the AI like we would do in a SP game - because it is all human controlled!

So we need to be careful how we proceed and not make too many enemies at once.

[Cecil XIX]

My sympathies Ignoramus, I was in much the same position with Sigismund. Also, please post the updated save.

[Zim]

we really can't just steamroller the AI like we would do in a SP game - because it is all human controlled!

So we need to be careful how we proceed and not make too many enemies at once.

I think that choice has been taken from us, at least until we make terms with a few of the many current enemies. :clown:

[Cecil XIX]

I think that choice has been taken from us, at least until we make terms with a few of the many current enemies. :clown:

Despite the clown face, this is a serious point. If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

[Rowan]

Hi all, nice to see the games' going strong! I still don't have the time to start participating (you wouldn't BELIEVE how much time (and space) a 1.5 year old takes!) but I check the forums occasionally to see how things are going.

[Cecil XIX]

Nice to see you're still around, Rowan. Good luck with your kid!

[phonicsmonkey]

Despite the clown face, this is a serious point. If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

I like the challenge! We do need to buy ourselves some breathing space though...apart from the Kaiser and Prinz everyone is pretty much bankrupt and without armies.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Hi all, nice to see the games' going strong! I still don't have the time to start participating (you wouldn't BELIEVE how much time (and space) a 1.5 year old takes!) but I check the forums occasionally to see how things are going.

Believe it or not but I do(I have 4 year old ~:))

[TheFlax]

Hello,

First off I'd like to apologize for simply vanishing about two months ago, I should have said something. I got rather busy and distracted by other things, having only this game and mafia games in the gameroom as attachments to the Org, I soon stopped visiting all together.

Talking to Zim has gotten me back in the mood for on of these games and I more or less have the free time. (I hope) So seeing as old Vaclav is still alive and still assigned to me, can I jump back into the game?

[Ignoramus]

Oh, can I be put on the queue list for a new avatar? Thanks.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Excellent, looks like we're getting the band back together. :applause:

Now, if only we could get some of the Throne Room ghosts back in here...

[phonicsmonkey]

If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

[Nightbringer]

Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

I second every part of this.

[Cecil XIX]

Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

The big problem, on my end, is how many roles I'm going to play. By default I have to be GM. I'd also like to play as Lothar Zirn. Then there's all the factions. All these roles have different priorities. As GM, I want players to have fun, participation to increase, etc. As France I (normally) want to stomp the Reich into the ground. If I play as multiple factions, how do I handle fighting against myself? I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I think we need to take it slowly.

[phonicsmonkey]

The big problem, on my end, is how many roles I'm going to play. By default I have to be GM. I'd also like to play as Lothar Zirn. Then there's all the factions. All these roles have different priorities. As GM, I want players to have fun, participation to increase, etc. As France I (normally) want to stomp the Reich into the ground. If I play as multiple factions, how do I handle fighting against myself? I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I think we need to take it slowly.

Yeah fair enough and of course all this is surely already a big draw on your time, so it would be dependent on your ability and willingness to take it further.

Assuming however that it is both practical and fun for you to do it - if it were me I would probably let it be 'story-led' in that I would first come up with a narrative and then 'act it out' through the various factions and characters under your control.

Say for example you wanted to simulate a war between (eg) Denmark and Poland. You might decide that the Danes want to move into Polish territory and they come up with an invasion plan (stack 'x' is assigned the job, gets on a boat and carries out the invasion). Meanwhile you decide the Poles are informed of this (they have a spy in Denmark) and ready a stack to take on the Danes. The battle will take place somewhere where the two will meet and will be determined by autoresolve. Or if for story reasons you want one of them to win you could play out the battle or use a console cheat to get it done. Etc etc.

We might find out about some or all of this on the grapevine and then have the opportunity to take advantage of it by either invading Denmark or perhaps joining them in their war against the Poles. Or ignore it completely.

Zirn might be irrelevant in this scenario but in a similar situation involving France he could play a role.

This kind of thing might only happen every once in a while, when you are struck by inspiration. The rest of the time the factions could be left to the AI or only partially interfered with (ie. you might decide to develop one decent castle in each neighbouring faction to give yourself the option of recruiting good troops, or a port for naval development. This could of course always be done quickly with console cheats.)

[Ignoramus]

Cecil, if you want to have a break from controlling the AI and join in, then I'd be happy to take over until I get my new avatar.

[phonicsmonkey]

That's a good idea - share the load as it were. Bit like a succession game! First to die has to be GM until the next one dies. :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

That's a good idea - share the load as it were. Bit like a succession game! First to die has to be GM until the next one dies. :laugh4:

Guess whom I'll be targeting first... :laugh4:

How long do you reckon I'll have to wait for an avatar?

[phonicsmonkey]

Guess whom I'll be targeting first... :laugh4:

How long do you reckon I'll have to wait for an avatar?

I don't know how many people are in the queue ahead of you but for my part I'll be accepting all adoptions and MotH offers to try to get more people into the game as quickly as possible.

[_Tristan_]

If I may, I'm also willing to offer my services as Assistant GM, Cecil, should you require any assistance in managing the Empire's neighbours... I'm not ready to join yet but this might be the first step towards it..

[GeneralHankerchief]

If I may, I'm also willing to offer my services as Assistant GM, Cecil, should you require any assistance in managing the Empire's neighbours... I'm not ready to join yet but this might be the first step towards it..

Tristan controlling the AI factions? :hide:

[phonicsmonkey]

GH, are you going to give Flax permission to command the Frankfurt garrison in defence of the city?

The Poles are ten units plus BG, Premyslid has just three, there are four in Frankfurt and he can recruit two mercs on the Prinz' account, bringing him to nine which makes for a decent chance of victory. Without the Frankfurt spear he is only maximum five units...and the Poles have mounted xbows too

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm not giving anybody permission to do anything until I check out the save, and I can't right now (as per the post in the other thread).

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm not giving anybody permission to do anything until I check out the save, and I can't right now (as per the post in the other thread).

yeah fair enough, check it out first!

[phonicsmonkey]

EDIT: Double post, sorry

[Ignoramus]

If it's alright with Cecil and Tristan, I'd like to take control of France and Milan.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

[Cecil XIX]

I have started a new thread for the History of the Empire (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133293-(V-amp-V)-Das-Reichgeschichte-(History-of-the-Empire)). I will finish it tomorrow, and by the end of next week I will have both a Mausoleum and a Library thread.

[Zim]

There still seem to be mercs in the area, or at least nearby where Vaclav is.

Wish me luck, I'm going after the group besieging Innsbruck since I can't reach Frankfurt...


I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

[phonicsmonkey]

There still seem to be mercs in the area, or at least nearby where Vaclav is.

Phew!

Good luck buddy

[TheFlax]

I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

I'd rather fight the battle myself than auto resolve, its more interesting, even if it probably will lead to Vaclav dying. I talked to Zim and the plan right now is hiring the mercs and then moving next to the army besieging Frankfurt, so if it attacks, Vaclav will fight the battle. If they don't attack, well, I'm honestly hoping for some reinforcements.

[Zim]

I'm also lending Vaclav the one unit I have in range, militia in Nuremburg. Is that something for the status thread or can I just pm Cecil?

Also, I have seen my doom and it is the Milanese army. It's larger than mine, full of superior units, and has cavalry.This is Becker signing off, hopefully to be still alive come dawn.

That....went poorly. I started with a disadvantage in terrain but managed to double time my troops to a fairly flat area. Sent my two man knight unit to lead their full Mailed Knight unit on a merry chase around the map, then managed to start routing their militia with a couple charges. Unfortunately I let Becker get tied up while trying to roll up the routers and watched his unit's numbers dropped as I tried in vain to order him out of melee.

[phonicsmonkey]

even if it probably will lead to Vaclav dying.

It's up to you of course, but I think we've lost enough Dukes for one turn! :no:

Poor Becker, he deserved better than that...

[Cecil XIX]

It's up to you of course, but I think we've lost enough Dukes for one turn! :no:

Poor Becker, he deserved better than that...

Seconded. Be careful, everybody.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I guess this gives you even more incentive to change your name back when the time comes, Zim. :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

I think it's quite a good idea to keep the Kaiser from being burned at the stake. On reflection.

However, I strongly suspect there's a large Hungarian army bearing down on us from just nearby and if it attacks us we will be forced by the format of this game to fight it as an offensive battle won't we? Which would get us excommunicated anyway..Cecil am I wrong about that?

If I'm right and we want to avoid excommunication maybe the best thing is to withdraw from Budapest and go fight the Milanese instead to avenge Becker. Then if the Magyar come calling they'll be on our land and we can defend ourselves without incurring Papal wrath.

Is that right?

[Zim]

Seconded. Be careful, everybody.

I thought I was. :clown: While I can tend to sometimes just throw my generals into the fray I've been careful with Becker, and was completely ready to pull out and withdraw if needed. Then the shiny gold ring of a Milanese chain route loomed ahead of Becker, and he kept pushing for those last few dead enemy soldiers needed....until he ran into the pointy sticks of the more professional merc spearmen Milan was fielding... :embarassed:

I guess I'm in the queue behind Iggy for a new character. C'mon, everyone, expand so we get lots of adoptions and MotHs. :clown:


I guess this gives you even more incentive to change your name back when the time comes, Zim. :laugh4:

Indeed, unless maybe as a memorial.

P.S. I've decided that the more I have invested in a character, the more likely they are to die (except Arintheos for some reason). Henceworth, I shall try not to care about any generals I get. :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think it's quite a good idea to keep the Kaiser from being burned at the stake. On reflection.

However, I strongly suspect there's a large Hungarian army bearing down on us from just nearby and if it attacks us we will be forced by the format of this game to fight it as an offensive battle won't we? Which would get us excommunicated anyway..Cecil am I wrong about that?

If I'm right and we want to avoid excommunication maybe the best thing is to withdraw from Budapest and go fight the Milanese instead to avenge Becker. Then if the Magyar come calling they'll be on our land and we can defend ourselves without incurring Papal wrath.

Is that right?

I'm not quite sure of the specifics, which is why I left some room for maneuvering in the Kaiser's latest tirade. From what I remember (and this is probably more likely to be wrong), defensive battles don't trigger the Pope's wrath, offensive battles do, without respect to territory or anything like that.

[_Tristan_]

That's right, you can defend all you want without risk of being excomm'ed but don't go on the offensive...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Every single Heinrich in every parallel universe has just completely blown his stack right now. :laugh4:

[Cecil XIX]

Even worse then when the Byzantines took Rome in KotR and his scream from beyond the grave echoed across the whole world? :beam:

[phonicsmonkey]

Revenge on these Poles is now of paramount importance

[GeneralHankerchief]

Touché, Cecil. :yes:

[TheFlax]

Just posting to say I'll be able to play the save in a few hours.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oog. :dizzy2:

[Cecil XIX]

I think now would be a good time to solicit opinions from the players on the difficulty of V&V. In previous TW RPGs, the AI has generally been regarded as a non-threat. The question then is whether or not we have the opposite problem now. Thoughts?

Incidentally, I tried fighting the battle before I sent it to TheFlax. I camped out in a forest of course, but I was very impressed with how the AI handled me. They took the initiative immediately, charging my archers with their general. At first I thought it was the old "suicidal general" shtick, but after engaging the town militia the general actually withdrew! This occupied me long enough for the cavalry to surround me on both flanks, and then the AI really let me have it with a three-pronged assault. Even though they were mostly missile cavalry, I confess I made it worse when I became unnerved and broke my formation in a vain attempt to regain the initiative, and they made me pay for it. I tried to help the left flank by having Vaclav charge them from the rear, but then the enemy general charged Vaclav in the rear! It was a complete rout.

[TheFlax]

It was an interesting battle to play. I started in a similar fashion and things ended pretty much the same way, as you'll see in the battle report.

I think right now we are fighting too many factions at once. Inadvertently we might have shifted to the other extreme of the scale, finding ourselves in a somewhat impossible situation. Unlike LotR or KotF we don't have a ton of RGBs to help and we player controlled enemy factions, the AI won't be shuffling around or doing anything too stupid. Then there's the fact that we are against multiple factions. It just seems it could be toned down a bit. Though, I am all for having some losses and setbacks, the times in other games where we had a huge streak of wins with barely any losses felt pretty flat.

[phonicsmonkey]

I think the difficulty of this one is largely our own fault for playing with such reckless abandon. We all (myself included) hared off at the start invading left right and sundry as if we were playing a SP game against the AI. We then did it again when the event was over!

If instead we had taken a more measured approach, making alliances and treaties, building up and defending our borders sufficiently before extending ourselves in adventures I think we would have found it much more manageable. As it is we got stuck in a bit of a downward spiral. Having said that I still think we can turn it around, but only if we seriously buck up our ideas.

If we had played a hotseat game like this against other players we'd be dead by now. You can't just go around attacking your neighbours without diplomacy or strategy, unless you have overwhelming force, which we do not.

However, one thing I would say is that I don't think that most of the players have had enough money at any point to have any options about what to do. The only reason I've been able to keep a decent sized army is that Vienna is so rich and I built a silver mine. Dukes der Bartige, Becker, Premyslid and Hummel never had enough cash to defend their own lands properly. Under this ruleset there's not too much incentive to pool resource - I have been forced to do so recently because I could see the game ending abruptly if I did not, but otherwise I've been quite happy to sit on my treasury in the knowledge that I can use it to further my own character's ambitions at the expense of others.

So one suggestion I have is maybe to inject some cash into some of the less-rich settlements if they are to serve as capitals of a Duchy.

[Zim]

I think the challenge level would be just about right if we didn't go off in all directions as Phonics had said. I also never should have fought that battle, but felt pressured to defend the settlement Becker had so recently liberated and then been granted (so, in other words, fairly releastic motivations I think. :yes:). I think the title of Duke also went to my head a little. I was the Duke of my House, and in my mind that meant I had to defend it (never mind I was in charge of a group of which I was the only member. :clown:).

I believe we all learned our lesson pretty well. I know I'm raring to get another character and get back in, and planning on doing a story or two and maybe posting as an "anonymous elector" in the diet. The only thing I might suggest to the Emperor (although it is his Lordship's business) is maybe to hold off on naming new Dukes for a while. This will pool most of the impending new characters into one or the other of the new Houses, and I think in the current circumstances fewer Houses with more generals will better defend what lands we have, and any new ones we might get (and I fully encourage current players to conquer some land so we start getting adoption offers :laugh4:).

I wouldn't mess too much with settlement income. Later in the game they'll be making plenty of money, and with our smaller number of Houses people will likely be pooling more resources, expecially after recent losses. I would actually be doing a lot of recruiting in a couple turns if Becker had lived. The money I lost was mostly in my time as a landless noble expected to pay his bodyguard's wages.

Also, I predict within a few months time that we'll be fighting all of our neighbors and complaining how easy it is. :beam:

[Ignoramus]

Hummel's sally was rather suicidal, but to be honest, he didn't have much to look forward too. Antwerp was a backwater, and the loss of Saxony really hurt him.

I did think the early expansion was too much, but then again, there wasn't enough conflict to prevent it.

[Zim]

Well, we don't need to worry about overstretching now that we've been relieved of most of our outlying settlements, and one central one. :clown:

I think Hummel had things to look forward to. If he had survived he'd likely have gotten any of the other territories in the area taken, and Antwerp would have become a rich city in a dozen or so turns. Plus, Flemish Cloth.

I'm interested to see what the coming turns will bring. Hopefully a more focused and cooperative HRE, but probably as dysfunctional of one as we've always had (and I'm including KOTR here). :laugh4:

Also, nice battle report up by TheFlax. I'll try to do one for Becker's last stand as well..

[phonicsmonkey]

Great battle report Flax, enjoyed that. Those spear from Frankfurt would have made all the difference I suspect. Ideally facing mounted ranged troops you would concentrate fire on them from foot archers and xbows. This is how I used to fight Mongols - a line of heavy spear to keep them at bay and banks of xbows to take out their HAs. You didn't really have the option though it seems.

[Zim]

I didn't even know Lothar was still alive. :clown:

[_Tristan_]

Yes, alive and kicking (Milan for now... German butts later :clown:)

[Cecil XIX]

I would like to announce that Ignoramus will be playing the part of the Kingdom of France for the remainder of the war. Please direct all IC queries to him, all previous messages to the Kingdom of France have been forwarded to him already.

[Ignoramus]

Guys, there was problem with that save for France.

A French army got attacked by an English army and I retreated. But then two small Imperial armies got attacked by Hungary and Milan and I couldn't do anything without resolving the battles. When I ended the turn, there was a diplomatic offer from Hungary to the HRE, which I couldn't ignore before saving.

What should I do?

[Nightbringer]

upload the save for France on the screen for the first battle. People will play both battles and choose the diplomacy option, then hand the save back to you?

[Cecil XIX]

Guys, there was problem with that save for France.

A French army got attacked by an English army and I retreated. But then two small Imperial armies got attacked by Hungary and Milan and I couldn't do anything without resolving the battles. When I ended the turn, there was a diplomatic offer from Hungary to the HRE, which I couldn't ignore before saving.

What should I do?

Hmm, you should be able to save at the screen where you decide whether to autosolve by pressing escape and bringing up the menu. I'm assuming you mean the remnant's of Becker's army which, since they're captain led, should be auto-resolved anyway. As for the diplomatic offer from Hungary, I'm guessing it will keep repeating itself so as long as you save before it you can check what is, then PM the offer to GH and me.

[Nightbringer]

It could be my army as well however.
Jens Herden

[Cecil XIX]

It could be my army as well however.
Jens Herden

You're right. I checked ahead and you get attacked by an eleven-hundred strong Hungarian army with about 400-500 horse archers.

Ignoramus, try this save. (http://www.mediafire.com/?bai2ju1aku0050e) I had the French retreat from the English attack, then auto-resolved on the captain-led stack. If Nightbringer wants to fight then you'll need to find someway to save either at the fight screen or before it.

[Nightbringer]

um, can i retreat?
I have what, 100 men?

[phonicsmonkey]

You're right. I checked ahead and you get attacked by an eleven-hundred strong Hungarian army with about 400-500 horse archers.

Aargh! Hungarians! Curses! Looks like Leo has to turn back again...NB, if I were you I'd retreat to Wien where you can wait out a siege until I get back to relieve you. Or try a sally with the troops there but I don't like your chances as you have no horse to speak of and not many missiles.

[Nightbringer]

Ya, I am going to have to fall back to Wien and make a stand there, hopefully reinforcement arrive in time. If any additional troops can be trained there it would greatly improve my chances of surviving an assault if you can't make it soon.

[phonicsmonkey]

I can get back there this turn to relieve the siege, or potentially just send back some troops for you while I carry on to Innsbruck and hire more mercs.

We'll see when we get the next save.

Hopefully this is the last major Hungarian army for a little while, eh?

[Nightbringer]

Yes please, I don't even understand where that army came from.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Pope Gregory has control of various pits of Hell scattered throughout Europe. He simply spawned the army from the most convenient one.

[Nightbringer]

LOL,
probably true...

[Cecil XIX]

An impressive battle Tristan, I hope you post something about it in the Battle Reports thread. I take it most of your casualties were from the crossbows?

[phonicsmonkey]

Who is going to take Harold Merode?

[Zim]

We had someone new post about getting an avatar a while back, didn't we? If he can't be found I think Ignoramus is next.

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok I looked back over the thread and I think this is the list, in order, of people waiting for an avatar:

- mini
- Ignoramus
- Zim

Cecil is that right? Do you want to drop mini a pm?