View Full Version : HOTSEAT - Clash of Gods! - RECRUITING!
IC thread. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136330-Clash-of-Gods-IC-Diplomacy-thread&p=2053332477#post2053332477)
OOC thread. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136281-SS-6.4-Clash-of-Gods!-OOC)
The idea is simple but promises a lot of aggression - the players are divided in two equal teams, one consisting of Catholic nations, the other one - of Muslims.
The first side to accumulate 100 points wins! Points are related to the respective side's target cities:
Catholics: Need to hold Alexandria, Tyre, Antioch, Cordoba, Baghdad, Cairo
Muslims: Need to hold Rome, Venice, Madrid, Paris, Hamburg, London.
Jerusalem is a special target city. Both sides need to hold it and have it at 100% of their religion before victory is declared, but it does not grant points!
Points are measured as such:
Capture target city: 10 points.
Hold target city: 5 points every turn.
Convert target city to 50% of your faith: 5 points (only if holding the settlement, awarded once)
Convert target city to 100% of your faith: 15 points (only if holding the settlement, awarded once)
Also, the regions are open to discussion.
We will use SS 6.4 for this game. All battles may be lead or autoresolved based on player preference.
Rules and banned practices:
Do not attack ships in ports.
Armies boarding ships in ports can't stay there for more than one turn.
Don't leave blockaded ports without beating the blockading ships first.
Don't stack merchants in armies or forts to get more than one to stand on the same resource (Merchant Fort)
No surrounding armies or agents to destroy them. (Surround&Destroy)
Don't attack units who were left next to a settlement in order to capture it on the same turn in order to cheat the garrison script. In fact don't cheat the garrison script period.
Don't use repeated offers for bribe to increase your faction leader's dread.
Enable "Unlimited men on battlefield" in order to not abuse when leading battles vs the AI (PM me for instructions)
Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points
Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.
Ballistas can't open anything, catapults can open wooden walls, trebuchets can open stone walls.
Spies cannot open settlements of any kind.
Assassins are allowed to target anyone but the players are limited to one assassination attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else. Upon a successful assassination the game admin will load that player's save and attempt the assassination. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.
Crusades and Jihads can be joined but the Pope can't be bribed in any way for favor. Crusades/Jihads only versus their respective target cities. (this will be modded in I hope)
ONLY religious buildings can be destroyed upon the conquest of a settlement and ONLY if they are of a religion different than your own.
No trading of provinces to receive free troops.
No deliberate deals that would put you in debt above -10,000 florins.
slysnake
03-24-2011, 16:56
Stainless Steel all the way! *cough* only because its the only Kingdoms mod I play *cough* :)
I have two problems with SS 6.4
One is that with real recruitment on everyone plays with spear militia armies for the first 200 years and that is very very boring.
The second one is that Heretics are absurdly strong and they completely mess up AI controlled regions.
slysnake
03-24-2011, 18:25
Why not try 6.2? That's a pretty popular release of the Stainless Steel mod which we use for the Dogs of War Hotseat which has been going on for a looooong time now with no such problems like those which you have mentioned ^^
Sure I'm open to what the majority prefers. Still low interest in this game which is strange for me. Perhaps the regulars here are in too many games as it is?
phonicsmonkey
03-24-2011, 23:33
You might find some people are at capacity, I know I am and I have a very busy period in RL coming up. Persist, recruit around other forums a bit and you should be able to get this off the ground. I'll help by advertising it in the TWC forum and elsewhere.
slysnake was considering starting a game a while back, he might be willing to admin this for you?
I would suggest two things:
- Maybe limit it to 6 players, 3 on each team? Then you don't have to find so many players.
- We tried VCs a bit like these in the WotK game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?121162-Broken-Crescent-Hotseat-Wrath-of-the-Khan)and they worked ok, but have you considered making this a team deathmatch like WWC? You could just let the game go on until one side is eradicated. Then that takes away the issues of balance around which cities you pick etc.
- I would suggest, if you are considering an AR-only game, that you use KGCM with the hotseat patch for this. The AR results have been rebalanced in that patch to give better results to heavy cavalry which are usually under-rated. This would help out the cavalry-heavy eastern nations which usually suffer in AR games.
I'm interested, but have to admit being pretty close to capacity for games. Still, Norway looks none too healthy in the Teutonic Hotseat, so I could likely join this one.
Sure I'm open to what the majority prefers. Still low interest in this game which is strange for me. Perhaps the regulars here are in too many games as it is?
Nightbringer
03-25-2011, 07:32
I have to say I am at capacity with 7 hotseats, a mafia game, and the v&v thing all on my plate, otherwise I would be interested though.
KGCM sounds best then, especially if auto resolve has been rebalanced. I wanted to go with cities rather than a deathmatch for several reasons. One is that historically the crusaders wanted free access to (and later control over) the Holy Lands, they did not seek to actively slaughter every Muslim nation and wipe them out. Similarly then, it makes sense for the game to focus around key settlements and their religious conversion. This will allow Turkey for example to expand to the North and East without fear of molestation by player controlled nations, as they care about the targets down south.
The capture of Rome and the conquest and muslimification of major Western cities is similarly set to simulate the ultimate Muslim goal of bringing Islam to all the countries in the world.
Victory is attained when all targets are secured, the invaders repelled and the enemy religion removed form both your own lands and the target regions. This means that alongside the battle of troops and siege engines, there will be a battle of priests and assassins. There will also be the need to consider who picks what nation. Cordoba is a target for the Western nations - will a player get the Moors and risk being swarmed within 5 turns or will they abandon it to the AI and then do a team assault on Rome in retaliation?
Attack planning, defense planning and key use of Crusades/Jihads will be more important than simply grabbing all your stacks and right clicking until someone has no more provinces left.
Naval warfare will also be important, as well as logistics - England, Scotland, Denmark etc. are all far removed from the action. Dare they tech up to better troops whilst their allies in Central and Southern Europe try to hold their ground?
Do the Muslim factions want to consolidate their own positions and grab land from the AI, and to a slow conversion towards Europe, guaranteeing defensive Jihads on newly conquered territories?
This concept has potential if both teams want to take it as more than "meet here, bring all your troops and we fight to the death"
Reworked the victory conditions and some of the rules. Anyone interested?
Crusades can't be called in kgcm with th hotseat patch, jihads require ten piety.
When I get out of a few, I might join.
I'm asking on the .net on the details of returning the Cruades mechanic to this mod.
Sure I'm open to what the majority prefers. Still low interest in this game which is strange for me. Perhaps the regulars here are in too many games as it is?
Can't join this hotseat, but I can help you advertise. Click the "Content Manager" hyperlink in my sig if you want to see additional services.
SilverShield
04-27-2011, 21:34
im always interested in a good block war
wuuud? Quirl?? u is still alive bro? hows it going man? u still with the Marine girl or was she chopping ur balls already...
Nightbringer
04-27-2011, 22:31
I am interested in this game now as my load has decreased somewhat, My only concern is the imbalance between Christian and muslim factions inherent in all versions of the game. Christian factions outnumber muslim ones ~5-1 and generally have superior troops. Their also tend to be many more regions in Christian areas of the map. I would prefer to avoid KGCM as I feel England has been boosted beyond balance due to the number of factions and regions bunched into that zone. This would be a particular issue in a game such as this where there would be little danger of england being attacked by enemy factions. They could easily grab the 28 BI regions and then just spam troops to send across the map.
I don't want to sound too negative as I want to play and it is a fun concept, I would just want to make sure people felt they were on a level playing ground in order to avoid any resentment / bad feelings about the game.
im always interested in a good block war
wuuud? Quirl?? u is still alive bro? hows it going man? u still with the Marine girl or was she chopping ur balls already...
lol. Hey, man. Her and I are still together. Things are going so-so (although I did have to correct her today on calling me "a woman" in front of the cashier at Orange Leaf. Ooh-rah. :clown:).
I'm playing The Levantine Struggle hotseat here at the throne room, but that's about it. RL's been tough and I don't have much time for anything else... but it's good to be back.
PM me sometime. We'll catch up, man. :smiley:
Nightbringer
04-28-2011, 00:12
I'm sure this isn't what you meant but saying you correct her just makes me think of the shining.
No. That's exactly what I meant. :clown:
Nightbringer
04-28-2011, 00:16
*slowly backs up till he gets to the door then breaks into a full run and starts screaming
Pffft... whatever. You put the fear of death into the 40K universe, Nightbringer. Don't act like I'm the bad guy now just 'cos I had to axe-murder my girlfriend. ;)
EDIT:
At the risk of inadvertently hijacking this thread, maybe we should stop here before we piss off Myth. :clown:
Can't join this hotseat, but I can help you advertise. Click the "Content Manager" hyperlink in my sig if you want to see additional services.
I will make use of your services for a banner for this game. I could make it myself however, I have skills in photoshp/flash. Maybe we can collaborate on that?
im always interested in a good block war
Great!
I am interested in this game now as my load has decreased somewhat, My only concern is the imbalance between Christian and muslim factions inherent in all versions of the game. Christian factions outnumber muslim ones ~5-1 and generally have superior troops. Their also tend to be many more regions in Christian areas of the map. I would prefer to avoid KGCM as I feel England has been boosted beyond balance due to the number of factions and regions bunched into that zone. This would be a particular issue in a game such as this where there would be little danger of england being attacked by enemy factions. They could easily grab the 28 BI regions and then just spam troops to send across the map.
I don't want to sound too negative as I want to play and it is a fun concept, I would just want to make sure people felt they were on a level playing ground in order to avoid any resentment / bad feelings about the game.
KGCM at least makes the Eastern factions playable. They also can grab land from the ERE. I'm thinking of making this a 3v3 so faction number should not be a problem. England is hard to invade yes, but so are the inner provinces of the Holy Lands. Why do you feel that England has been made stronger in the KGCM? They lack good cavalry so their autoresolve stats won't be as good.
We can also ban warring with factions of your own faith, so in effect the Catholics can only expand to rebel regions, do you think that will work?
Or, we can allow battles to be fought instead of autoresolved. That will make the HA armies deadly. What does everyone think about this? The GA campaign allows battles to be fought and hasn't collapsed so it's a possibility at least.
Anyway, so far we have:
myself, Zim (possibly), Visorslash (possibly), Slysnake (possibly, if i convince him to install KGCM), Nightbringer, SilverShield
That's 6 right there if the first 3 decide to participate. I'll PM them to ask again, because as Phonicsmonkey has shown me, persistence is the sinews of a good hotseat.
BTW I think I've found a way to allow Crusades and Jihads only for the target cities. I'm not sure how they removed Crusades from the KGCM but if it's with the region resources I can mod them back in.
Hmm. As long as the time limit is 48 hours or larger, I'll join. I suggest we have some discussion of factions for fairness.
England isn't too overpowered in a full man hotseat.
Great! I've updated the rules, If I'm forgetting something please let me know. I'm really hoping that Phonics can admin this for me, or Zim. On factions:
For the Catholics the best factions are England, France, HRE and whatever Italian faction starts with the biggest armies. I haven't played KGCM so I'm not certain on the numbers. Note that in KGCM France and the HRE start very late on the turn order and have fewer starting provinces. Special mention to the Crusader States since they start with Jerusalem which is required to win even if your side gets to 100 points.
For the Muslims the best factions are.. Hmmm. The KGCM seems a bit limited with only Turks, Egyptians and Moors (my info from this (https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/Bossdave/factions-1.jpg) screenshot) I know that in SS we get Khawazremians and other Muslim nations. But SS's autoresolve is not balanced. Would it be better then, to play with SS 6.4 (I know how to fix the heretics) with real recruitment off and without autoresolve?
If we stick to KGCM please someone who has played the mod list the Muslim factions and their relative strength. For me the best one would be Turkey simply because one can lead his HA armies and capture Constantinople which is easily the best city at the start of the game.
Nightbringer
04-29-2011, 01:12
The only problem I have with England in terms of balance is the 3 other catholic factions they can take out right at the start to grow huge. The main reason I would say to not have them in this despite their historical importance is the huge amount of time it will take for them to cross the map. It will likely take them roughly twice as long as other christian factions which is really just no fun at all for them.
France HRE and probably Venice would be good in my opinion though. All three have ocean access with relative ease which will make getting to the middle east easy, and all three do play historical roles in the crusades.
Crusader states could also work well.
I'm not sure about Muslim factions, I think it is just moors fatimids and seljuks though.
slysnake said he cannot join at the moment due to exams coming up, so we have one more slot open.
Why not 2v2, Turks and Egypt v Jerusalem and Antioch. As a death match idea. But ontopic, I don't like the idea of ai bashing for ages. Maybe you could make everyone really big, so the action starts faster.
That setup implies we just start a Crusades hotseat. I was thinking of using the KGCM to have a longer game with logsitics playing as much part as actual fighting. Long distances and planning your route, securing reinforcements and a launchpad in enemy territory are key. I'm not even sure the KGCM has antioch but without the hotseat patch the HA factions are very disadvantaged in autoresolve.
What do you mean make everyone really big? We could start a KGCM game and skip to turn 50 or so, but no one knows how the AI would behave. You might get a crippled empire. Or we could start in the late period... Hmmm.
No it doesn't. Turks are too weak in crusades for that.
The hotseat patch has Antioch and Jerusalem.
phonicsmonkey
04-30-2011, 12:11
Have you thought about using Broken Crescent for this? We've had a number of games in that mod and they've always worked well.
IMO, bc is horribly, horribly balanced.
SilverShield
04-30-2011, 23:42
i got no idea of this kgcm thing and im not really into starting an epic thing if i got no idea of the lil hints and things that are working a thing. broken crescent surly is a unique setting and i d loved to revive the old wrath of the khan feeling but the whole east vs west scenario isnt really working if anyone is muslim anyway. im always up for another mongol vs anyone campaign but i guess the mongols are just too strong no matter the setting. defeat lastly is invietable i guess. so just going with the new stainless steel is best. thats 6.4. there is no forts in 6.2 as far as i know so 6.4 surly is the better choice. as for the setting depending on how many people are actually in there is always the chance for eastern rome to join a muslim alliance. egypt, turks, moors and east rome surly are equaling western europe. thats a fair way to go imo
SilverShield
04-30-2011, 23:51
Can't join this hotseat, but I can help you advertise. Click the "Content Manager" hyperlink in my sig if you want to see additional services.
i kinda was just remembering that epic map u had going in lords of the east. u know that thing with all those overlapping colors according to the territories each faction was having. that was cool. if u were coming up with such a map later in the game that was pretty cool then man
Stainless Steel 6.4 with toned down heretics (I'll give you guys the appropriate file to copy over), because if you haven't played SS 6.4 trust me heretics have been made so much stronger they practically ruin the AI nations. I also warn you that the autoresolve for SS is unfair towards cav and HA armies however. A stack of dism. chivalric knights and armoured sergeants will punish a full 20 horse archers stack in autoresolve, where as if you lead the HA in a battle you will reduce the foot soldiers to so much minced meat, probably beat them wtih 0 casualties.
The best way to go about it will be allowing battles to be lead but I still haven't heard yay or nay on that.
SilverShield, if you want to see what KGCM and the Hotseat patch do, you can read here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=369925
I myself haven't played it either, but some of the .org hotseat vets have and they're happy with it.
SilverShield
05-03-2011, 03:07
Stainless Steel 6.4 with toned down heretics (I'll give you guys the appropriate file to copy over), because if you haven't played SS 6.4 trust me heretics have been made so much stronger they practically ruin the AI nations. I also warn you that the autoresolve for SS is unfair towards cav and HA armies however. A stack of dism. chivalric knights and armoured sergeants will punish a full 20 horse archers stack in autoresolve, where as if you lead the HA in a battle you will reduce the foot soldiers to so much minced meat, probably beat them wtih 0 casualties.
The best way to go about it will be allowing battles to be lead but I still haven't heard yay or nay on that.
SilverShield, if you want to see what KGCM and the Hotseat patch do, you can read here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=369925
I myself haven't played it either, but some of the .org hotseat vets have and they're happy with it.
just reading about this is like reading about sports or sex or anything practical. unless u are doing it ur knowledge is still somewhat limited so if we are really pulling this off im for ss 6.4.
auto resolving always favors infantry over cav except broken crescent maybe. but if one knows about it adjusting strategy from beginning solves that. theres always pros and cons to human vs human battles fought on the field. if they are fought on the field even someone already doomed is still capable of making a comeback. 2 generals already are capable of making the difference taking out a bigger army. battles fought on the field definitely is more challenging which always is a good thing. but there is always complaints and stuff about certain things being unrealistic or whatever and i aint up for senseless discussion and stuff so... pros and cons
Yeah if we agree on fought battles we will do with full knowledge that whoever gets the jump has a huge advantage. Autoresolve isn't perfect as well, as proved by the Britannia hotseat I'm in. Honestly I'd go for a Stainless Steel 6.4 game with Real Recruitment off and with fought battles just for the pure carnage and for the added importance of logistics. Where you end your turn is vital now that your enemy can fight his battles. So that's two in favor, what do the rest of you guys think?
Oh also an added bonus for SS over KGCM is that there are no ranged troops with an AP property (read: Longbowmen are not the end-all, be-all of battles)
Nightbringer
05-04-2011, 05:52
I'm fine with whatever everyone else wants. :)
SilverShield
05-04-2011, 19:44
one thing for sure is that fighting battles on the field is more demanding than just auto resolving it and thus more fun. but as i said im done with complaints about tactics not being "realistic" so i guess just auto resolving is the easiest way
Yeah if we agree on fought battles we will do with full knowledge that whoever gets the jump has a huge advantage. Autoresolve isn't perfect as well, as proved by the Britannia hotseat I'm in. Honestly I'd go for a Stainless Steel 6.4 game with Real Recruitment off and with fought battles just for the pure carnage and for the added importance of logistics. Where you end your turn is vital now that your enemy can fight his battles. So that's two in favor, what do the rest of you guys think?
Oh also an added bonus for SS over KGCM is that there are no ranged troops with an AP property (read: Longbowmen are not the end-all, be-all of battles)
Since we will be allowing both Crusades and Jihads (but only against objectives settlements) I think fighting battles is paramount. The free heavy cav/infantry from Crusades is too strong in autoresolve.
We will be starting this game by the end of May, I'm waiting to mainly get my new PC before I continue with the recruitment etc. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.
Quick update and bump (double posting so the others see a new post). I got an answer (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=447436) of how to mod Crusades back into KGCM which makes it a more attractive option than SS in regards to Eastern faction balance (read: they are on par with the Catholics which is a major point to consider in this game)
So:
KGCM pros:
Rebalanced starting regions, turn order, autocalc and unit stats so the Catholics don't steamroll trough everything with Dism. whatever knights and Armoured Sergeants. Importance is now placed on cav and HA armies can do well in autocalc.
KGCM cons:
Not everyone is familiar with it (myself included)
SS 6.4 pros:
More historically accurate, more detailed and virtually everyone knows it. Does not require tinkering with the files to put Crusades/Jihads back in.
SS 6.4 cons:
Autocalc still favors heavy infantry over cav and archers are basically a waste of gold. Turn order will probably need rebalancing because the best factions are Catholic and they start first to boot. Some factions start with so much land they are very very good - England, France (with the rebels around it), HRE, ERE.
Note: SS 6.4 will probably be best played with fully fought battles instead of autoresolve which I favor when Crusades/Jihads are a factor.
What do you guys think?
Ashurnasirpal II
06-03-2011, 06:41
Hi all! I just joined these forums and phonicsmonkey just pointed me here! I've never done anything like this before, so I don't know if I'd be a weight on my team, but if you guys think a newby can pull it off, I'd like to join! I have played many total war games though, so I guess I should be more then okay!
So long as you know how M2TW works (recruitment, economics, logistics etc.) you'll be fine.
OK so I have my own PC now and I'm ready to set this game up. Who is still on board with this? We will be using SS 6.4
Ashurnasirpal II
06-06-2011, 02:55
I have downloaded the mod and started messing around with it :beam: It looks promising :smash:
What will be the final rules (auto-resolve or no?) and how will we chose our team?
SS 6.4 and fought battles (although in some cases if you find that autoresolve is more beneficial you can do that). My choice of mod comes from the ease of use for everyone (me included, as I don't have to mod crusades and jihads back in) and the historical accuracy.
Real Recruitment however is open to discussion. With it on we will recruit naught but Spear Militias for the first 100 or so years, with it off it will be more interesting unit wise but less historically accurate.
Teams will be chosen by preference as will be nations.
slysnake
06-06-2011, 09:32
Did I say I was free now? Exams are over, I origionally said that I would not be playing since I thought this game would have started by now ^^ And also, I would be more then happy to install KGCM if this game is going to go ahead :)
Ss 6.4 is better, fought battles give a whole lot of depth to hotseat games. You can actually use your HAs to devastating effects. In autoresolve Catholic nations will just spam infantry (and more so from the Crusade merc pool) and steamroll everything.
So we have two. Silver Shield expressed interest as well, I think he won't back down, so that's three. Me included - 4. Two more spots open! BTW so far, do you guys have any preferences on which side you'll play on and which nation you'll pick?
OK I reviewed the thread, Nightbringer was also up for this game, and Visorslash and Zim said they could play. I'll PM them to check.
Not too big a fan of SS.... I dunno. Currently got a lot on my plate. I also have to reinstall it.
Reinstalling is no major problem, the torrent is seeded a lot and it should DL very quickly. DL 6.3, then the 6.4 patch and you're ready to go! Otherwise, why aren't you a fan of it? I think we should play with RR turned off to have army compositions that are more fun, but that's about it.
Loads real slow on my comp. Plus I suck at leading battles. (Most of the time. Occasionally I do well.)
You could autoresolve (that will actually benefit you greatly in SS with Real Recruitment off. Just build armies that are good for autoresolve) but you'll have to be cautios and be careful to not get caught with your pants down least the enemy kills your whole stack with 3 generals and 3 HAs.
So if SS runs slowly will KGCM be better? Or Vanlla for that matter? By runs slowly do you mean overall or just turn times ('cause those don't really matter that much in a hotseat)
The entire game runs slow. SS6.3 runs fine. But 6.4 doesn't. :(
What factions can I choose, and what era?
Muslim and Catholic factions only, Early Era as i said due to Late being so horribly balanced for the Muslims in such a scenario (Mongols to the right, crusading Westerners to the left)
Make sure to read the first post (i've redone the victory conditions, they are now points based and the target towns have been changed somewhat) and chose your faction accordingly to your team's objectives.
I'll take last. Or maybe not. I don't want be Moors either way.
Since some of you have trouble picking a faction, I'll give you a short summary of my views, though they are by no means 100% accurate as I'm yet to play with every faction in SS (no time).
Catholics:
Some choices stand out a lot here:
- The big three: England, France and HRE. England has an impenetrable starting position, it has an imbalanced number of settlements on the isles and it has huge archer pools. France has the best overall unit roster and has 5-6 rebel provinces that are ripe for the plucking. The HRE starts with a button of armies, provinces and generals. It can expand much better knowing it's back is secure by two other human Catholics as allies.
- Genoa: starts with huge armies for it's size. Nay, starts with huge armies in general - enough to blitz France for example. Has the pavise x-bow militia line and the Genoese Crossbowmen that stomp on HA armies in lead battles. Even the AI will use them well and inflict casualties!
- Leon-Castille, Aragorn, Portugal - start right next to the Moors and can expand to take the whole peninsula. Some of them have jav-cav or other such light cav that does very well in lead battles.
- Poland/Hungary: have HA armies and mercs and safe paths to expand into pagan/orthodox territory.
- The Crusader States - not advisable with Jihads being legal to call AND join... They will be steamrolled in the first 5 turns by my estimation.
Muslim factions:
- The Fatamid Caliphate, otherwise dubbed the Yellow Death in the .net SS forums. One of the strongest overall factions and definitely the top dog of the Muslim world economy and unit wise.
- The Kwazremian Empire, the K-Shah is beastly early game. It can recruit Kwazremian Nobles right from the start and those guys are only inferior to Scholarii early on. Before Europe gets the Full Plate or Gothic Plate events this cav will rule the battlefield. Not to mention the K-Shah gets very good HAs, Elephants AND an awesome starting position that is the equivalent of England's in terms of defensibility and potential economy.
- The Turks have great HAs and can, if played correctly, beat the ERE and take their awesome starting cities (Constantinople!). They also hold sway over the land access into the Holy land for most of the Westerners (nobody in his right mind will trudge trough Spain and the whole of Africa to get to the Holy Lands).
- The Moors are a gamble, quite similar to the Crusaders but a bit better since they have land in Africa. If they can hold Cordoba and wipe out the Catholics on the Iberian Peninsula and fort-up the passes, they will be horrendously hard to root out. But that's only if the three Iberian factions are AI lead, and they don't get Crusaded against in the first couple of turns.
Ashurnasirpal II
06-07-2011, 01:09
So just to sum things up: the players are slysnake, Silver Shield, Myth, Nightbringer, Visorslash and me. How do we divvy up the factions? I don't really care who I play, though I wouldn't necessarily trust myself on a frontline role!
I'm waiting on Zim to answer if he will play as well, or if he can at least admin for us. Visorslash will chose last as he said. SilverShield had an interesting idea but I think it won't work due to how M2TW operates. Nightbringer, Slysnake - where art thou?
The teams are open to debate though if you are new and Visorslash has trouble leading battles on his PC we can consider you being in different teams.
As far as factions go, once we decide what the teams are and who is Muslim and who - Catholic, we can flip a coin (roll a 1d2 die on Invisible Castle) and take turns picking, this way we can adjust according to the enemy pick
phonicsmonkey
06-08-2011, 01:37
Myth, why not admin this yourself? It'd be great to have some new hotseat admins around here. I'm happy to be a backup if you like.
Also, is this game full now or would you like me to advertise it for you? I have a thread in the Citadel and at TWC that I use to publicise new games.
Seems to be full but Nightbringer has been keeping quiet. I'd rather not admin as I'm a player here and I'm rather passionate about my own idea for the game as well :)
phonicsmonkey
06-09-2011, 00:40
Seems to be full but Nightbringer has been keeping quiet. I'd rather not admin as I'm a player here and I'm rather passionate about my own idea for the game as well :)
Never stopped me - you just have to know how to avoid and manage conflicts of interest. It's better having a playing admin because he has more reason to keep a close eye on the game.
SilverShield
06-09-2011, 23:28
alright im going for the crusaders as part of the muslim team
also imo its best if we were having 8 people at least so its 4 on every side. if its just 6 total its a lot of computer bashing before things are heating up between humans. so im really in favor of making it 8
Nightbringer
06-10-2011, 05:39
sorry. I've been busy with finals (done now!) but definitely want in this game. I'm fine with either side and am ready to go (except I'm not sure I need to do any modification to my ss 6.4, I just have the base with meneth's patch).
phonicsmonkey
06-10-2011, 06:37
(except I'm not sure I need to do any modification to my ss 6.4, I just have the base with meneth's patch).
Whoa, what patch?
Erm 6.4 - pure install. That's what I have. I was thinking of down-modding the Heretics but after playing around 40 turns with England I found them to be manageable. Just remember to try to denounce them only with priests who can't be converted! That's Cardinals for the catholics, or anyone with at least 4 or 5 (can't remember) piety for the Muslims or Orthodox factions.
Okay guys, Silver Shield had an interesting idea of using the Crusaders as a part of the Muslim side. They have strong Early Era units and they do hold Jerusalem at the start. Any settlements he holds must be at 100% Catholic to get the points needed/win. This is an interesting controversy since it will require planning on who attacks/holds what for both teams.
Catholic Side: four empty slots
Muslim side: Silver Shield leading the Muslims
Now I want to put to a vote whether we play with Real Recruitment (RR) on or off. if it's on, there is the thing called "Area of Recruitment" meaning you can't spam your troops everywhere, some can just be made at home (like Longbowmen for england or Elephants for the K-Shah) Also, with this submod on (it's on by default in SS_Setup) the pools for the elite units are reduced and they take longer to recruit. For example, France needs 7 turns to recruit a unit of Lancers!
However early on, armies are composed of mostly Spear Militia and dirt farmer archers (levy, peasant, whatever). This means that the battles won't be as interesting until we play past some events but those are a long way off (1220-1250 or so, we start at 1100, and SS is 1tpy)
Do you think that a hotseat game can last for 120-150 turns? Or if not, do you have a problem against playing with basic units for most of the game or do you want to have the good stuff without restrictions, like in vanilla?
phonicsmonkey
06-11-2011, 00:05
Do you think that a hotseat game can last for 120-150 turns?
I have never seen one last that long. 70 turns is as far as we got in CotF and we had to relaunch the game (as WotK) with a different set of VCs at turn 45 or something. It took two years all up to get that far!
Well then it's either RR off or we play with spear militias for the whole game!
Do you think that a hotseat game can last for 120-150 turns?
Yes. Epic hotseat over at TWC lasted around 120 turns until we had a winner. But even then, it was only victory by SP conditions, the hotseat was headed to the coalitions way.
phonicsmonkey
06-11-2011, 01:46
Yes. Epic hotseat over at TWC lasted around 120 turns until we had a winner. But even then, it was only victory by SP conditions, the hotseat was headed to the coalitions way.
Games over there tend to move quicker. How long did that one take to get to 120 turns?
It was an eight man hotseat if I recall correctly.
Started 26th of October 2009 and ended March 11th 2011. Turn 115.
phonicsmonkey
06-11-2011, 04:00
Eight men helps too - starting with the full 13 or so is slow.
still, that game made really good progress, nice work!
Ashurnasirpal II
06-11-2011, 04:05
Okay guys, Silver Shield had an interesting idea of using the Crusaders as a part of the Muslim side. They have strong Early Era units and they do hold Jerusalem at the start. Any settlements he holds must be at 100% Catholic to get the points needed/win. This is an interesting controversy since it will require planning on who attacks/holds what for both teams.
Err, that's a tad bit odd considering the concept of this hotseat, then again, meh. It does lead to weird things considering crusades and jihads though. Can it be patched out so the crusaders actually are muslim?
As for RR, I say off with the ugly thing! No dirt farmer armies!
Phonics is looking for more players. He is truly the most zealous mod I've ever encountered! :)
Now, if no one wants to have second pick, I'll take England for the Catholic side.
LooseCannon1
06-12-2011, 22:54
Hello everybody, i saw phonicsmonkey's help wanted ad for a person or persons to be dogpiled in a hotseat here over at TWC and decided to register and apply:laugh4: I'm punctual and can take a beating as either a Catholic or Muslim faction. I know its only my first post here (but I have lurked on & off for 4 years) but if you need references I think Visorslash can offer one (even though I just ruled against him in another hs).
phonicsmonkey
06-12-2011, 23:00
Welcome to the Org LooseCannon1!
No need for references! :) Read up and pick a side! So far we have:
Muslims: Silver Shield as the CS
Catholics: me as England
(even though I just ruled against him in another hs).
Huh?
Yeah, he's good.
Ashurnasirpal II
06-13-2011, 03:31
If we're picking factions, I'll go as Leon y Castile on the Catholic side.
ArcturUs
06-13-2011, 05:49
Hi everyone, I would like to join this, I'm new to this hotseat campaigning though, can anyone send me a guide or instructions on how to play this? :help:
phonicsmonkey
06-13-2011, 06:06
Welcome to the Throne Room Ezilkannan!
Playing hotseats is very easy. All you need to do is this:
- the player ahead of you in the turn order will post a link to the save game file in the game thread and will send you a pm to let you know it's your turn
- then you download the file and place it in your 'saves' folder
- fire up the game, play the turn (making sure to abide by the rules of the game which will be set by the GM, Myth, before it begins)
- hit end turn and when you see the password screen for the next player in line, save the game
- upload your save game file (using the org uploader (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=addlink&catid=205)) and post the link here sending the next guy in line a pm to let him know he's up
simples!
Myth, is this game now full?
ArcturUs
06-13-2011, 06:10
Welcome to the Throne Room Ezilkannan!
Playing hotseats is very easy. All you need to do is this:
- the player ahead of you in the turn order will post a link to the save game file in the game thread and will send you a pm to let you know it's your turn
- then you download the file and place it in your 'saves' folder
- fire up the game, play the turn (making sure to abide by the rules of the game which will be set by the GM, Myth, before it begins)
- hit end turn and when you see the password screen for the next player in line, save the game
- upload your save game file (using the org uploader (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=addlink&catid=205)) and post the link here sending the next guy in line a pm to let him know he's up
simples!
Myth, is this game now full?
sounds easy. :laugh4:
EDIT: Is this game full, or is there any open slots which I can fill in to?
phonicsmonkey
06-13-2011, 07:01
I'm pretty sure you have the last open slot.
ArcturUs
06-13-2011, 07:08
Is RR on in this game?
LooseCannon1
06-13-2011, 12:31
If we're picking factions, I'll go as Leon y Castile on the Catholic side.
To make things interesting, I'll go with the Moors.:boxing:
RR is OFF for this campaign. 70 turns of spear militias galore is not my idea of a fun hotseat by any standard. Even if we account for Crusades/Jihads.
OK for now we have:
Muslims: Silver Shield as the Crusader States, LooseCannon1 as the Moors (lol good luck with that position!)
Catholics: Me as England, Ashurnasirpal II as Leon-Castille
Visorslash will pick last. Nightbringer, slysnake and Ezilkannan can pick now. I advise Ezilkannan to play as a Muslim faction simply to have one new player in each team. (The Fatamids are the strongest, the Kwazremians have the most secure position and the best early game units - the K. Nobles)
Just a reminder. We are playing Stainless Steel version 6.4 with no other submods installed. I'll post details on the starting screen later (we will play with the top AI selection, the one that has 10/10 for aggressiveness and backstabbing). This will game will allow you to fight all your battles. You are allowed to call AND join Crusades/Jihads (But only vs target cities). Assasination attempts are one per turn, and must be the first thing you do when you start your turn, before you do anything else!
ArcturUs
06-14-2011, 04:53
RR is OFF for this campaign. 70 turns of spear militias galore is not my idea of a fun hotseat by any standard. Even if we account for Crusades/Jihads.
yay, no more farmer armies :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I advise Ezilkannan to play as a Muslim faction simply to have one new player in each team. (The Fatamids are the strongest, the Kwazremians have the most secure position and the best early game units - the K. Nobles)
I was thinking of playing as a muslim faction too , its been a long time since I played as one of those, I'll pick the Kwarezmians :juggle2:
To make things interesting, I'll go with the Moors.:boxing:
Looks like Iberian peninsula is going to get very hot in this game :laugh4:
If by "hot" you mean ravaged by Crusades and Jihads, then yes :)
ArcturUs
06-14-2011, 18:56
so, as of now
Muslims: Silver Shield as the Crusader States, LooseCannon1 as the Moors, Me as Kwarezmians
Catholics: Myth as England, Ashurnasirpal II as Leon-Castille,
slysnake, Nightbringer and Visorslash are the ones who must pick now
I'm last, so Slysnake and Nightbringer choose first.
ArcturUs
06-16-2011, 07:33
Shouldn't we change the KGCM in the Title of our thread to SS 6.4? :laugh::laugh:
phonicsmonkey
06-16-2011, 07:50
Actually I already changed the title of the first post, which means KGCM is no longer visible in the thread title when viewed from the forum. But I think I'd have to amend every single reply in order to fix it up within the thread.
ArcturUs
06-16-2011, 10:02
oh lol :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Nightbringer
06-18-2011, 08:13
well, I would take france but I am already playing them in 2 games. I will therefore rule as the Holy Roman Emperor. And I promise I will stay far away from streams, I'm not going to see Jerusalem as a pickle!
edit:
wait, no, I want sicily!
my choice is sicily
ArcturUs
06-18-2011, 15:46
Ok, so as of now
Muslims: Silver Shield as the Crusader States, LooseCannon1 as the Moors, Me as Kwarezmians
Catholics: Myth as England, Ashurnasirpal II as Leon-Castille, Nightbringer as Sicily
slysnake must choose now, Visorslash wil pick last.
slysnake
06-18-2011, 23:47
I take it France and the Holy Roman Empire are left? I think I will go with France, for reasons of my own heritage :)
So I''m muslim then?
Either Turks or Egypt....
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 05:44
So I''m muslim then?
Either Turks or Egypt....
ya, go for FC :P They are a strong muslim faction.
P.S. Shouldn't we have a pic for our Hotseat?:laugh4:
phonicsmonkey
06-19-2011, 05:48
P.S. Shouldn't we have a pic for our Hotseat?:laugh4:
You guys should start a new thread when the game starts, with the rules in the first post and a pic if you can get hold of one.
We have a resident content manager Quirl but he's been struggling a bit in RL recently so he may not be able to help..
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 05:56
I have one more question, what difficulty are we choosing for AI? H/H or VH/VH?
P.S. Myth, could you post all the settings for this game in the first post or maybe in a new thread.
Fatamid Caliphate will do.
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 10:04
Everyone has picked the factions heres the final list
Muslims: Silver Shield as the Crusader States, LooseCannon1 as the Moors, Me as Kwarezmians, Visorslash as Fatamids
Catholics: Myth as England, Ashurnasirpal II as Leon-Castille, Nightbringer as Sicily, slysnake as France
slysnake
06-19-2011, 10:17
Nice, so when do we start?
I'll be gone for 10-12 days or so in around 5 days, so SilverShield can sub me.
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 11:48
Nice, so when do we start?
have pmd Myth, he must be starting the game within the next few days or so.
Edit: Myth has started work on the image
I'm happy that we got this game going! I'll make a new thread, explain the rules, the setup screen and all that jazz. I'm working on a picture right now! (I so love my new PC and how fast the Adobe products run on it)
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 12:08
(I so love my new PC and how fast the Adobe products run on it)
oh you got new pc? god everyone is upping their pc, but Im stuck with my old c2d processor and n9400GT for the next 4 yrs :wall::wall::wall:, as my dad wouldn't let me get a new one :furious3::furious3:. I couldn't run Shogun 2 with this :wall::wall::wall::wall:
I know your pain. I had troubles running Shogun 2 on low before. Upgraded the graphics card, all games run faster, but it shuts off every couple of hours.
slysnake
06-19-2011, 13:02
I know your pain. I had troubles running Shogun 2 on low before. Upgraded the graphics card, all games run faster, but it shuts off every couple of hours.
I'm currently using an ATI 6950 2GB GDDR5 RAM, and my FPS is still not great. I'v come to the unfortunate conclusion that its due to my tri-core 2.9GHz AMD CPU and somewhat outdated motherboard that Shogun 2 still runs slower, even after overclocking my GPU and CPU :(
phonicsmonkey
06-19-2011, 13:20
My beautiful new computer runs Shogun 2 like a dream...MWuahahahahahaaaaaaa
slysnake
06-19-2011, 13:22
My beautiful new computer runs Shogun 2 like a dream...MWuahahahahahaaaaaaa
What CPU and motherboard are you using, and how many FPS do you get? I'm looking at buying a new CPU and mobo sometime over the summer :)
phonicsmonkey
06-19-2011, 13:25
It's a Gigabyte X58 UD5 rev 2.0 with an Intel i7 950. I have ATI HD-6950 2GB and 6GB of Ram.
I have no idea how many FPS I get but when I next play I'll let you know.
ArcturUs
06-19-2011, 15:34
It's a Gigabyte X58 UD5 rev 2.0 with an Intel i7 950. I have ATI HD-6950 2GB and 6GB of Ram.
OMG, :dizzy2::dizzy2:
thats a 1337 gear.
I wish I could have something like that :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:
slysnake
06-19-2011, 16:22
It's a Gigabyte X58 UD5 rev 2.0 with an Intel i7 950. I have ATI HD-6950 2GB and 6GB of Ram.
I have no idea how many FPS I get but when I next play I'll let you know.
I take it you do alot of video encoding - hence why you have soo much RAM? XD
We have an OOC thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136281-SS-6.4-Clash-of-Gods!-OOC)! Now I just have to work out the Hotseat save with Phonics because I can't get Hotsteat to work on SS (or any mod for that matter, only on vanilla)
phonicsmonkey
06-20-2011, 00:14
I take it you do alot of video encoding - hence why you have soo much RAM? XD
RAM is pretty cheap these days compared to other components... :laugh4:
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