EB Online - Factions: Strengths and Weaknesses

[gamegeek2]

This is the thread for discussing faction strengths and weaknesses for EB Online and compiling them into a single post.

This will be an ongoing compilation - that is, it will continue to be updated.

Getai

Strengths
-Access to the cheapest, most effective shock infantry in the game - Drapanai and Bastarnae. These units will chew through almost anything in their path if they can survive the danger of missiles.
-Numerous effective skirmisher troops. These are highly effective at harassing enemies and taking out important units with volleys of javelins, as they have the speed to position themselves to do so.
-Combination of solid line troops and horse archers. Granted, the Getai often have to rely on Boii Cingetos for line infantry, but these combined with horse archers to flank and shoot the enemy will lead to a massacre, especially if falxmen get involved.

Weaknesses
-Vulnerable to missiles. The most important Getic units - elite archers, skirmishers, horse archers and falxmen - are all very vulnerable to arrows, more so than most other barbarian factions' troops. This requires tactics to compensate for.
-Lack of scary infantry. Unlike other barbarians, the Getai do not have an effective way of mass-routing opponents without causing mass casualties. Granted, they can certainly do this, but the job is made much harder.



Sauromatae

Strengths
-Cheapest cavalry in the game (except for heavily armoured ones). This gives a large amount of flexibility in terms of money, which can be spent on better units or chevrons.
-Able to field 10 archer units using SAC. This gives (obviously) a firepower advantage against any enemy.
-Access to numerous Baltic infantry and quality Germanic and Greek troops. This offers a surprising flexibility in infantry composition that can be adapted to fight any faction effectively.

Weaknesses
-No heavy infantry except Hoplites. This means that the Sauromatae have to be wary of opposing missiles, and must plan their attacks well, because one false step will result in the disintegration of a lightly armoured infantry unit. This is why chevrons are valuable.
-Lack of very heavy cavalry. By very heavy I mean units with armour stats past 16; units that arrows simply bounce off. All other steppe-capable factions, save the Getai, have such units. Lacking these, the Sauromatae must be very careful around enemy missile troops.

[Lazy O]

If I might request, can you do a list of heavy cavalry before this?

[vartan]

If I might request, can you do a list of heavy cavalry before this?
The heavy cavalry are listed in the factional units spreadsheet (there may be heavy cav mercs that don't fall into any of the factions). You could do a list from all of those. I'll pay you in :balloon2:s for this.

[Lazy O]

Sure, tomorrow, and the site says Saka should have Alan Nobles but they do not.

[vartan]

Sure, tomorrow, and the site says Saka should have Alan Nobles but they do not.
This is off-topic. I realize that the MP EDU only had Alan Nobles on the Sarmatian roster (they are mercs for the Sarmatians). I've added them to the Saka roster now, sorry about that. The EDU contains many units; it is very easy to miss things like this (once the tournaments start we won't update the EDU but rather take note of anything that's missing; we need all incoming replays to be consistent with a single EDU version). By the way, isn't it surprising that Alan Nobles went from costing 3593 to costing 2364? :laugh4:

[Vega]

O yea this is amazing thread to tell what i think.... SPQR belongs to group where are Sweboz and Saba, reason is simple THEY ARE UNDERPOWERED AND WEAK!! and army and cost system, i dont know why in mp roster is placed roman elites i mean antesgnani pretorian cohorts and pretorian cavarly, because i cant bought cheap units to gain extra money all units for spqr is extremely expensive and dont tell me to buy some cheap mercenaries because mercenaries slots are spended by 4 or 5 units of archers or slingers that is so stupid, polyiban and marian era dont have fire support camilian have only accensi imperial have good roman archers so all mercenary slots are spended on fire support http://www.mediafire.com/?qyfq4zr924lpbgi this replay says everything for example if i want to buy pretorian cav who cost 4300 mnai( I dont know why the hell they cost 4300 when they suck) rest of my army will be usseles slingers which can be easily slaughtered by persians archers WHICH is going to be fix for opponent to make extra money for example 2 gaesatae!!! Roman Cost system is totaly :daisy: and i can win only when my opponent sleep or when they make HUGE mistakes now i see why no one in this tourneys didnt choose Romans and i dont know how in the blue hell My faction took 3rd place on july tournament, o yea thanks to nicanor and his bactria!! O yea another thing?!! I will continue this discussion on hamachi when you all guys be there i mean mostly Vartan and GameGeek because list of my noticed stuff is not stoped here! Forgive me for this fury post but i couldnt handle it anymore Cheers!

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Vega, you are a funny guy.

[Kival]

Vega, Rome has the best heavy infantry units cost-effective wise (at least in marian/imperial times). Where should they get factional slingers in marian and imperial times? They didn't have any! Polybian have roman slingers by the way...

[Vega]

Hmmm i think i turned fire on forum by posting this, anyway kival i am not talking about factionals i am talking about how many elites i can buy when i buy 4 cav in roman roster i hate when my opponent can bought good 5 cav 3 (heavy) and then he can buy good 4 or 5 elite or halfelite infratry which is better than cohorts that is stupid!

[vartan]

Vega, you are a funny guy.
Vega is simply the reason I live. That good man just rocks my world day after day. His humour could get me out of the most miserable grief.

[Lazy O]

You cruel person. Anyways , to elaborate on evgas point, he refers to me bringing 6 iberian assault infantry with 3 lanceari.

[Burebista]

You cruel person. Anyways , to elaborate on evgas point, he refers to me bringing 6 iberian assault infantry with 3 lanceari.

Vega , your roster is hugely big. Be Creative , ffs , man. Watch some Lazyo vs Robin Battles or smthing.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Vega, I'm gonna post some army comps for all 4 eras of Rome that are different and integrate "elites" with various other units. Think outside the legionary box man. These are all armies that I feel I would compete in a tournament match with.

Camillan: 2 Equites Extraordinarii, 2 Roarii, 1 Hastati, 3 Principes, 5 Triarii, 4 Pedites Extraordinarii, 3 Merc Cretan Archers

Polybian: 3 Equites Extraordinarii, 1 Hastati, 4 Principes, 2 Triarii, 3 Balearic Slingers, 3 Allied Samnite Spearmen, 4 Pedites Extraordinarii

Post-Marian: 1 Brihentin, 2 Auxiliary Gallic Light Cav, 1 Legionary First Cohort, 1 Reenlisted Veteran Cohort, 11 Legionary Cohorts, 2 Iberian Caetrati, 2 Iosatae

Imperial: 1 Praetorian Cohort, 1 Antesignai, 1 Imperial First Cohort, 8 Legionary Cohorts, 4 Imperial Eastern Archers, 3 Alpine Phalanx, 2 Numidian Cavalry

The only era which was difficult for me to make a balanced army was Post-Marian.

[Nicanor]

What? you only beat me once

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Vega, Rome has the best heavy infantry units cost-effective wise (at least in marian/imperial times)
This is the point I've explained last month: the low cost of roman infantry was thinking with the aim to make Romani quite better for single player campaign.
Repeat one more time: the roman units shouldn't be cheap than others factions units, but its also shouldn't be represented as underpowered as now (current official MP edu). Particulary, I'm talking about polybian units that are clearly weakened among the original edu.

[raest]

Particulary, I'm talking about polybian units that are clearly weakened among the original edu.

hmm.. besides the Hastati that are significantly worse and more expensive than the original (btw, what's the logic behind the hastati being more expensive than the principes of the same era? i mean, it's not much, 1454 vs 1401 but still...), the triarii are a bit better, principes have -1armour but +1pilum and +0.02 lethality, velites have less armour but significantly more javelin damage and shortsword lethality (and a slight bump in range), eqvites are significantly better all across the board, pedites extraordinarii are slightly better, eqvites extra are better, samnitici milites aren't much different (+lethality and javelin range, -armour), hastati samnitici have +2 armour, -1def skill and better jav range, and finally bruttii are significantly better.

so, all in all, not quite weakened compared to the original :)

@Aurman Sir Robin: Antesignani are post-Marian, not Imperial ;)

[Kival]

hmm.. besides the Hastati that are significantly worse and more expensive than the original (btw, what's the logic behind the hastati being more expensive than the principes of the same era? i mean, it's not much, 1454 vs 1401 but still...)

They got +20 men (in large) ;-).


samnitici milites aren't much different (+lethality and javelin range, -armour)

They seem to have been lost for the Roman roster.


@Aurman Sir Robin: Antesignani are post-Marian, not Imperial ;)

They are actually both, at least in the factional unit page. Their description is not so precise though...

[raest]

They got +20 men (in large) ;-).

They seem to have been lost for the Roman roster.

They are actually both, at least in the factional unit page. Their description is not so precise though...

ah. indeed. i have to check more carefully next time :). the lack of Antesignani was always one of the reasons why i wasn't too bothered to get the Imperial reforms in the SP, and i always wondered why would Octavianus rid himself of such a wonderful and useful unit (i'm not expert on Roman army and tactics, so i do now know how historically accurate that actually is :P)

[antisocialmunky]

KH

Strengths
-Ability to field highly motivated, well trained, heavily armored line infantry, cavalry, and militia units.
-Extremely strong in a defensive fight.
-Access to a huge variety of mercenaries.
-Well equipped warrior elite.
-Good but relatively expensive archers and slingers

Weaknesses
-Small numbers
-Lacks highly specialized infantry, only has well rounded infantry

[-Stormrage-]

HEY guys, i noticed In RSII there is a trait given to spearmen called " bonus fighting cavalry", How come EB units dont have this trait. Even phalanxes dont have this trait. I noticed only one phalanx had it, i cant remember its name but it did have "bonus fighting cavalry".

[The Celtic Viking]

@ASM: Cretan Archers can hardly be called "crappy", even when talking about the cheaper version. They're still good.

Casse

Strengths
- Has access to factional chariots as well as heavily armoured scare infantry to really cash in on scare tactics
- A good assortment of druids and hero units to raise the morale of your own army
- Has AFAIK the cheapest cavalry unit in the game (1.3k) which is still very useful (for the Casse army at least)
- Has exclusive access to some good Goidilic mercanaries

Weaknesses
- Except for their champions and heroes, their units are very vulnerable to missiles
- Has a dismal choice of ranged units
- Regular infantry rather low on morale
- Extremely limited in the cavalry department, with no heavy cavalry and only three units to choose from; out of them only one is factional, and none of them is
- Has only two AP choices, and the only useful one isn't factional
- Limited tactical options


HEY guys, i noticed In RSII there is a trait given to spearmen called " bonus fighting cavalry", How come EB units dont have this trait. Even phalanxes dont have this trait. I noticed only one phalanx had it, i cant remember its name but it did have "bonus fighting cavalry".

There are a good deal of units in EB that has that as well. The Klerouchoi Phalangitai have it thanks to having the "spear" trait for their spear, as opposed to the "light_spear" all other phalanxes (and regular spearmen) get. Other units, like the Germanic cavalry (both the regular, light cavalry version and the SPQR Germanic Auxilia cav), Drapanai, Bastarnae, Lugians, those elite indians etc. gets the horse +1 trait, which also shows up as "bonus fighting cavalry" in-game.

[raest]

HEY guys, i noticed In RSII there is a trait given to spearmen called " bonus fighting cavalry", How come EB units dont have this trait. Even phalanxes dont have this trait. I noticed only one phalanx had it, i cant remember its name but it did have "bonus fighting cavalry".

in RS2 most (all?) phalanxes also have "scares horse" which would be pretty cool if it functioned only from the front+while phalanx mode is on, and not just in a uniform radius around the unit. btw, i think that "bonus fighting cavalry" derives from the type of spear attribute they use for the weapon (light_spear gives a defensive bonus vs cav but a negative attack "bonus" vs inf, while spear gives an attack bonus vs cavalry [the reason why you see that description on some units] but a negative def "bonus" vs infantry). anyway, i don't think any phalanx/hoplite unit in "normal" EB has the "spear" attribute

btw, checking the EDU, the Klerouchoi Phalangitai have "spear" instead of "light_spear" like the rest of the pike units. mistake?

EDIT: ah, i see The Celtic Viking was quicker :)

[Lazy O]

Its just text, EB spears have the same bonus.

[-Stormrage-]

Yes the Klerouchoi Phalangitai has it. If Phalanxes have Light_spear then they will get a negative attack vs infantry, Does that seem right ? I would also like to add its bloody hard to get spearmen to engage cavalry, its very Rare that spearmen ever even touch cav in game. Even if you sacrifice your cavalry to engage his cavalry, then you bring spearmen from the back his cavalry will just run away. I am also realizing that the rule that sais, cavalry cant pull back if its cornered on 4 sides is not working. Because Cavalry will never ever be fully boxed in there will always be a small opening in the box and people just rush through it and say hey there was a gap in the box. How about we make a rule that if there isnt a BIG gap cav cant run through.

Guys, Can infantry be made faster ?

Suggestion, Remove the helmet from the naked fanatics. Its already hard to kill them with 2 hitpoints, and they even have a sheild, they dont need the 4 armour given by the helmet .

[The Celtic Viking]

@Lazy: No, they don't. As I said, EB spears have light_spear, which doesn't do the same as either spear or horse +1. The difference is that light_spear gives a +8 bonus to defence vs cavalry and a -4 penalty to defence vs infantry plus some pushing power; spear gives a +8 bonus to attack vs cavalry and -4 penalty to attack vs infantry, and more pushing power than light_spear; horse +1 gives a +1 bonus to attack vs cavalry to all melee weapons.


Yes the Klerouchoi Phalangitai has it. If Phalanxes have Light_spear then they will get a negative attack vs infantry, Does that seem right ?

No, they get a penalty to defence vs infantry. This is somewhat compensated by being given +4 to attack. :/


I would also like to add its bloody hard to get spearmen to engage cavalry, its very Rare that spearmen ever even touch cav in game. Even if you sacrifice your cavalry to engage his cavalry, then you bring spearmen from the back his cavalry will just run away.

What would you have us do? Make a rule that your enemy must be stupid and let his cavalry get slaughtered?


I am also realizing that the rule that sais, cavalry cant pull back if its cornered on 4 sides is not working. Because Cavalry will never ever be fully boxed in there will always be a small opening in the box and people just rush through it and say hey there was a gap in the box. How about we make a rule that if there isnt a BIG gap cav cant run through.

The rules doesn't say this at all. In fact, the rules say the very opposite, that cavalry can't run through infantry except to retreat when fully surrounded.


Guys, Can infantry be made faster ?

No.


Suggestion, Remove the helmet from the naked fanatics. Its already hard to kill them with 2 hitpoints, and they even have a sheild, they dont need the 4 armour given by the helmet .

No. They had a helmet so they will have a helmet and get the armour value from it.

[gamegeek2]

That's a stupid request anyways. 1. They wore helmets historically and 2. I can't alter models with EDU stats.

[Lazy O]

@TCV; RS2 has Light_spear not spear.

[The Celtic Viking]

Do they have horse +x?

[vartan]

That's a stupid request anyways. 1. They wore helmets historically and 2. I can't alter models with EDU stats.
Don't worry about the models. The stats are what matter. Units look good enough as they are.

[gamegeek2]

Also I will try to put up a full new one of these threads when I release 3.0, after testing.

[antisocialmunky]

I wanna test!

[gamegeek2]

You are probably the perfect tester... :D

[vartan]

"You can never have too many testers." -Vartan

[Lazy O]

Then im testing too, if ASM tests, itl most likely turn into turtle fest :P