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Renata

07-05-2011, 14:11

Not really shocking that I'm dead.

Richie/Beefy and I both voted for Fat Tony. Ballsy play to remove two votes against him; or WIFOM aimed at a mislynch (potentially ending the game)?

At this point I'd still bet on the former. Fat Tony's tie-breaking vote change to Anne shows guts regardless of his alignment; he'd have to know that would get him some trouble, yet did it anyway. Killing me and Richie would be consistent with that. Additionally, he has still refused to so much as touch the strongest evidence I have against him: that his first vote on Bobby (where he said he'd been finding Bobby suspicious, and dragged forward a questionably-suspicious-but-probably -the-best-thing-available quote from day four in support -- however never mentioned Bobby in the interim, even when he was making the most pro-forma vote of the game so far from him, on Frank on day five.)

I also had issues with a post from yesterday that I never got a chance to respond to (will shortly).

I do want to look at the other players, though.

Renata

07-05-2011, 14:42

Here's the post of Tony's I didn't get a chance to reply to.

Fat Tony;2053337323']So I had to vote for Richie because there weren't any scummy choices? Not Anne or Angelo? If I was scum I could've just hidden behind a vote for one of them. You know, like Angelo has been doing all game long.

You do realize that this comment basically amounts to "if I were scum I wouldn't have fallen for that yummy, yummy scum bait", right?

Wonder why? All game long he's been following other's leads and not sticking his neck out for himself. If you hadn't targeted me he never would have come after me.

Well I'll just say it now that I don't believe that Angelo is scum. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong; if he's still alive tomorrow and the game continues I'll have to consider it, but he's not on the menu today for me.

Like I've been saying this whole time, I was trying to put pressure on more people to talk.

No, you most certainly were not. One-off votes on people who are nowhere near being lynched don't get anyone to talk. Votes on lurkers (Frank) don't get people to talk. The closest you came before I started pressuring you was the vote on Bobby -- but even if he was closer to being lynched when you did it, he was *already* talking. What you claim you've been doing is just not true. You know what does get people to talk? Putting them in jeopardy of being lynched. You never did that. And the scum motivation is obvious: you don't draw as much notice from the innocents you're voting for, that way.

I can't well do that if I'm some lone vote when there's a bandwagon going on.

Interesting comment, given that what you appear to be defending yourself against (voting for non-bandwagon-leaders *behind* some other player (usually Bertha)) isn't something I've used as evidence against you. Guilty conscience.

You've 'led', at times, the town effort, and you certainly never looked to encourage discussion outside of the one lynch target for the day.

Strategery, my friend. :) To the extent it's even true, which is irrelevant now compared to everything else.

As for putting effort into Angelo - of course the stakes are up considerably at the end. The town might have only two lynches left. Making sure we get them right is important.

Indeed.

Askthepizzaguy

07-05-2011, 15:09

Okay, in order:

Bruno's vote for Bertha looks like a distancing tactic. Everything that's true for Bertha is true for Bruno.

Bertha's voting pattern nicely and neatly fits with the mafia murders. Who Bertha votes for ends up dead. Mostly, who she votes for ends up dead via lynch. So, the people she doesn't vote for generally wind up dead via murder. And, who is alive in the game are folks she hasn't been voting for. That is classic Mafia ESP.

Fat Tony got a lot of early pressure and the pressure has been fairly steady, iirc, even though he hasn't garnered a whole lot of votes. He was voted by someone who is alive right now, rather early on, and didn't seem to budge. Had a fairly consistent pursuit of Bobby, which feels less opportunistic. I get bad vibes from him at times, but the fact that he broke the tie to save himself last round speaks well. Look at the circumstances. He WAS voting Angelo, another person who is still alive, which means they aren't mafia together. That means at least one of them is innocent by default. That's just plain maths. Others had settled on their strategy, example, Bruno. Bruno didn't want to break the tie and lynch Fat Tony, even though the only way Bruno could get me lynched was with MY HELP. That speaks ill of Bruno. Fat Tony, however, has NO CHOICE. It was either himself, Angelo who he was already voting for, or me, the bad townie self-voter. What would YOU do?

Fat Tony be innocent, yo.

Angelo I feel is innocent. It's just a vibe I get from him now. Plus his play has been good enough for a scum win, I already told him that.

Luigi would be top suspect number three, but also, his play is very analysis-defying as scum, and I can live with that.

Emilio gets the I'm too frustrated with lurkers to bother award. If Emilio is scum, he chose the correct strategy of flirting with a WOG. Unfortunately, his continued existence is explicable because he's never been a threat to anyone, anywhere, at any time. Which is really, really bad. Which usually indicates townie-ness, because as I can show you, bad play is usually townie play. (Hi.... *waves at everyone*)

So, in order:

Bruno
Bertha
Luigi
Angelo
Emilio
Fat Tony

And I said I'd be quiet if Earthling did, but he didn't, so here I am. :laugh4:

Renata

07-05-2011, 15:24

A family member got some bad news, so I doubt I'll be around again before the deadline. I can't comment on ATPG's rating of Fat Tony as innocent, since I can't think properly right now. I do know that it's very unlikely to be dishonest in a game-ending way, so take that for what it's worth. Otherwise I don't much quibble with his ordering and would probably agree to a strategic lynch of Bruno today regardless, if I could vote. I don't know, though. See you later.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-05-2011, 21:50

Guys? I mean those still alive... What's up? Are you gonna let me finish this round alone?

Bertha, I want you to talk, you haven't talked all game. Pizza has already brought up the point that none of your targets are still alive, why is that? How did you know, when voting, whom the Mafia was going to kill later?

The others should talk a bit too...
Can we at least pretend we're trying to solve this? :D

Earthling

07-05-2011, 22:02

Luigi is still the best call. There's never been any reason not to have him as the top suspect anymore. All of the distractions and shameful bandwagonning have no excuse, he OMGUS'd a townie to death and kept bandwagonning poorly since. And he probably shouldn't be alive after all this time if he's an active townie and someone else is scum.

Bertha could be a scum but the many votes she missed or didn't pay attention to combined with the fact that the nightkills don't make enough sense for her at all make her not top priority. If her dead partner was calling the shots early or she had some non-optimal or daring strategizing it could be her though, I'd place her second after Luigi. Bruno and Angelo have had some townie-looking voting recently but can't be ruled out likewise. Angelo would have had to be especially crazy to survive yesterday and Bruno's the same as Bertha in that the nightkills would have brought him very little benefit, should have killed Sonny/Angelo/Anne/Luigi a good 3-4 days ago if scum and leave the other lurkers, because their strategy must be to blend in with other lurkers on purpose if they are scum.

I agree it's very unlikely Fat Tony is a scum with another living partner, due to yesterday's votes, the nightkills speak against him being scum at all, but even if he is then we should have at least one more day to get it and hope it becomes obvious. And Emilio is ruled out for being the call on the lynch obvious reasons.

Living should get voting though. We have a chance still.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-05-2011, 22:08

Renata

07-05-2011, 22:09

You know I really don't know how much I can be bothered to care when at a minimum 3 of 4 living townies don't give a :daisy: either.

Yeah I'm in a bad mood already, but Jesus. At this point I hope it's Angelo and Emilio or something.

Romanic

07-05-2011, 22:25

Sometimes there is no argument which will convince someone. Sometimes the only thing they'll accept is death. Sometimes I've done all that I wish to do to argue my case, sometimes I don't want to argue about it anymore, and sometimes the "team" lets me down. And sometimes someone annoys me so much that I honestly don't give a darn about the silly game anymore. I'll self-vote any time I darn well please. Townies do that sometimes when they're frustrated. Sometimes they do it to make a point, and sometimes the point is "argue till you're blue in the face, you're still WRONG."

Doesn't really matter to me if you understand it; doesn't bother me if you never get it; doesn't make me blink if you'd personally vote me every time for it. You consider it giving up, tossing in the towel, surrendering, whatever. Maybe you would suggest you'd personally never do such a thing, and you'd be wrong about that. I can name at least a few games where you just plain quit altogether, as in so long, bye-bye, not gonna play anymore. So you know darn well about being frustrated. I don't need a lecture, especially if you're guilty of similar action. It's just a game, and sometimes, people get fed up. Sometimes the team lets YOU down, and you're more than willing to give them what they want, even if what they want is something you know is bad for them. So deal with it.

edit- by the way, this can happen to anyone. I've seen such esteemed mafia players as Sigurd blow his stack and leave games before. People do get frustrated in games, it happens. :shrug: All I did was make it an option for anyone alive in the game to make me dead. That should have been a clue that it was a bad idea, but, if they felt I was bluffing they had the option to call me on it and they did. So now that's done.
I didn't need to read this after the day I had at work, and I think it's undeserved given the comment I've made was a reply to you saying the Town deserve their fate, which is including me. Also don't hide behind frustration to explain a bad play, you've been self-voting in almost every game recently and I haven't received a :daisy:load like this for calling you on it. It you need to vent, find another way please.

And it's about time you figure Bruno should be lynched :smug2:

GeneralHankerchief

07-05-2011, 23:37

Centurion1

07-06-2011, 00:40

you guys is so feisty like

Renata

07-06-2011, 01:36

Sorry. :(

[MAFIA] Bruno

07-06-2011, 02:10

Each of us play Mafia games differently. Some lurk, some talk, some do something in between those two. It doesn't mean that they don't care.

I care.

Vote: Luigi

Like I said previously, I think he could be the One (the Bad One that is).

[MAFIA] Luigi

07-06-2011, 02:35

Feels a bit unusual to be voting earlier than most.

Unless someone is able to bring a sound argument/defense on their behalf or someone else worth looking into, I am agreeable to a lynch between either Bruno or Bertha.

At the moment, Vote: Bertha
Since I finally showed up earlier than you, I might as well pressure you to join in the discussions and post something more than the simple one-liner votes you are so fond of (before you completely disappear for the rest of the phase).

Don't worry, unlike you, I'll be sure to be around to hear what you have to say :mellow:

[MAFIA] Luigi

07-06-2011, 03:11

Bruno;2053338755']Each of us play Mafia games differently. Some lurk, some talk, some do something in between those two. It doesn't mean that they don't care.

I care.

Vote: Luigi

Like I said previously, I think he could be the One (the Bad One that is).Didn't see you post there.
Care to expound on your suspicions more than that. Despite being aware of your intention to vote me (from last round), you've been very vague on your reasonings (or lack thereof).

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 06:44

Please find more productive ways to release tension during this obviously stressful period of the game.

Also, go back to the very first post in this thread and remember the most important rule.

Thanks, guys. :bow:

Sorry :bow:

Well, Bruno, I understand that some do not post as much, although if you're town it's necessary right now. Remaining silent will not help us a lot at this stage of the game.
But what's definitely needed is for the town to place their votes, even if they're not saying much, because the Mafia will eventually vote and we don't want the lynch they propose, do we? :yes:

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-06-2011, 07:18

Angelo is the one we should lynch.

I'll link to my previous arguments against him; https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135978-Mafia-X-In-play&p=2053337180&viewfull=1#post2053337180

A new reason to vote for Angelo; the switch to Anne that was nothing but a desperate bid to stay alive, as he abandoned his case against me. Bruno is scummy, and Bertha says so little it's hard to tell, but I fear we'll lynch Bertha, then Bruno, and then Angelo wins.

vote: Angelo

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 07:27

No, Tony, if you're town, you want to lynch Bertha today, trust me. Or don't it doesn't matter but if you lynch me today and there is still two Mafiosi left the game will be over.

If I'm alive by tomorrow and you still want to get me lynched do so tomorrow. Why would I run around here complaining about the inactivity if I was scum? I'd be happy with it.

Lynch Bertha and if you really need to and still want to lose this game, lose it on the last day and lynch me tomorrow.

GeneralHankerchief

07-06-2011, 11:57

24 hours later, and the kills are finally in their usual form. The voting deadline remains the same.

[MAFIA] Bertha

07-06-2011, 15:11

Angelo;2053338843']No, Tony, if you're town, you want to lynch Bertha today, trust me. Or don't it doesn't matter but if you lynch me today and there is still two Mafiosi left the game will be over.

If I'm alive by tomorrow and you still want to get me lynched do so tomorrow. Why would I run around here complaining about the inactivity if I was scum? I'd be happy with it.

Lynch Bertha and if you really need to and still want to lose this game, lose it on the last day and lynch me tomorrow.

What do you mean trust me? That is meaningless is a mafia game we cannot trust you that is the entire point. Looking back on the previous posts to me it appears that Luigi is the best bet.

To me the order of suspects is

Luigi
Fat Tony
Angelo
Bruno

The one or two remaining scum are there.

Vote Luigi

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-06-2011, 15:51

Well look who decided to show up and actually talk:

unvote, vote:Bertha

[MAFIA] Bruno

07-06-2011, 15:56

Bertha, is there a reason why I'm in the bottom of your list? I mean, everybody else think I'm scum. Also, your vote seems a bit weird.

I must say that I have to follow Angelo and Vote: Bertha.

[MAFIA] Luigi

07-06-2011, 18:22

Bruno;2053339012']Bertha, is there a reason why I'm in the bottom of your list? I mean, everybody else think I'm scum. Also, your vote seems a bit weird. Sums up what I had in mind. My vote stands.
May there be good news when I log back in later tonight.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 18:28

Bertha;2053338989']What do you mean trust me? That is meaningless is a mafia game we cannot trust you that is the entire point. Looking back on the previous posts to me it appears that Luigi is the best bet.

To me the order of suspects is

Luigi
Fat Tony
Angelo
Bruno

The one or two remaining scum are there.

Vote Luigi

Any last words, scum?

[MAFIA] Emilio

07-06-2011, 18:36

vote: Bertha. She seems to be the best lych choice for now.

GeneralHankerchief

07-06-2011, 19:25

Voting closed.

Stand by for the execution.

GeneralHankerchief

07-06-2011, 20:54

Sunset.

At least, there would have been a sunset if the rain hadn't been pouring down all day. The best that Chief of Police JuJuBee could do was estimate - that and have the exact time of sunset on his mobile phone, and use that information in tandem with his watch to determine the exact minute to end voting.

By the end, the rain was still crashing down and the lightning was still around them, none of the severe weather showing absolutely any sign of improvement. The power was still out, and the six survivors were all miserable, miserable at the rain, miserable at each other, miserable at their entire situation. All they wanted was for it to be over. But they would have to wait at least the night to see if this was the case. Despite all of the yelling and finger-pointing that had been done, a lot of them seeming to curse their dead comrades and even the wind for putting them in this situation, their lynch candidate for the day was someone who was somewhat out of left field: Bertha, who had never really previously been in any danger.

Bertha, shocked, tried to scream out a case, but it was in vain as the wind picked that exact moment to start howling even louder. Bertha's next strategy to get out of this was flat-out escape, but about five steps into her mad dash for freedom she tripped over the slippery ground of the Frontroom square and went sprawling. Trying desperately to crawl/get herself back on her feet, Bertha didn't get far before a hand clamped down on her fleshy shoulder. The Chief of Police was there, that grim expression still on his face, dragging her back to the execution platform.

Except this time he went farther than the execution platform, disappearing into one of the tall buildings that outlined the open square. Several minutes later, a flash of lightning illuminated where the two of them had gone off to: Both JuJu and Bertha were at the top of said building, outside, exposed to the rain, with the Chief of Police tying poor Bertha up to the building's lightning rod, which had not yet been hit yet in the day-long storm. After this had been accomplished, he hang-glided down back to the five remaining villagers, taking one look up at the trapped Bertha.

"Alright," JuJuBee said to the five remaining villagers. "That lightning will be attracted to the rod soon enough, and Bertha, who you know as Captain Blackadder, will feel the sweet reemergence of electricity in her life. I suggest you all go to sleep. Hopefully this will be the end of it."

Day 10 tally:
Bertha: 4 (Angelo, Luigi, Fat Tony, Emilio) :skull:
Luigi: 2 (Bruno*, Bertha)

*Bruno switched his vote over from Luigi to Bertha but it was invalid as he forgot to unvote. Yes, I'm going to be a stickler for this in the endgame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (5)
Angelo
Bruno
Emilio
Fat Tony
Luigi

Wrath of God:
spL1tp3r50naL1ty (Frank)

Killed:
Winston Hughes (Chickenman)
robbiecon (Giuseppe)
Visorslash (Maria)
johnhughthom (Christopher)
issaikhaan (Furio)
Death is yonder (Carlo)
Seon (Fingers)
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88 (Big George)
Earthling (Nick)
Csargo (Mickey)
Ashurnasirpal II (Salvatore)
B_Ray (Paulie)
White_eyes:D (Ralph)
Ignoramus (Luciano)
Romanic (Bobby)
Secura/a completely inoffensive name (Pete)
Believer/Greyblades (Fredo)
ArpeggiateTHIS (Giorgio)
Renata (Sonny)
Beefy187 (Richie)

Executed:
Jolt (Pedro)
Andres (Rocco)
Chaotix (Joe)
Sigurd (Claudia)
Centurion1 (Connie)
Diamondeye (Bugsy)
autolycus (Vincent)
Populus Romanus (Johnny)
Askthepizzaguy (Anne)
Captain Blackadder (Bertha)

Player list:
Romanic
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Visorslash
Beefy187
Greyblades
Renata
Csargo
Populus Romanus
B_Ray
White_eyes:D
Jolt
Captain Blackadder
Seon
glyphz
Ibn-Khaldun
Death is yonder
Askthepizzaguy
Diamondeye
TheLastDays
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
ArpeggiateTHIS
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88
Winston Hughes
Kagemusha
issaikhaan
a completely inoffensive name
autolycus
robbiecon
Earthling
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ashurnasirpal II
Sigurd
johnhughthom
Andres

It is now Night 11! The round will last for 24 hours.

Earthling

07-06-2011, 21:05

Well, that likely didn't get it right but the good news is Luigi is the only remaining scum or we would be done for by now (assuming we're not at fake ending shenanigans yet). Emilio's a goner tonight as he's pretty obviously town from all the inactivity and not-WoGging and the scum can't leave him and a second townie who will obviously turn on them alive.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 21:10

You do realize that GH always lets the game continue into the night and only the night's results will reveal if the game is over or not... in fact it won't be over at all, he would probably still let us vote tomorrow, even if there's one townie and two Mafiosi left, just because he can :wink:

Renata

07-06-2011, 21:47

I'm not hopeful.

Though it would be ironic if the one time I didn't have CB at the top of my lynch list for half the game, he was actually mafia.

Earthling

07-06-2011, 21:49

Well you're really saying he just always does fake ending shenanigans then, but I guess if it is at this point we'll wait around. Assuming we get a lynch tomorrow need to lynch Luigi. We probably don't have two scum alive is what I'm thinking so it's more of a question if Bertha was scum.

GeneralHankerchief

07-06-2011, 22:57

Well you're really saying he just always does fake ending shenanigans then

I prefer the term "keeping everybody in suspense". :laugh4:

Seriously, in all the time I've hosted here I've only pulled two fake endings, ever. This is an undeserved besmirching of my good name. :snobby:

White_eyes:D

07-06-2011, 23:07

Didn't you do 2 in Godfather 3?:grin2:

If you did that now, I could see all gameroom players putting aside there diffidence's and pulling out the pitchforks and torches.:aquarius::flame::surrender:

GeneralHankerchief

07-06-2011, 23:11

Didn't you do 2 in Godfather 3?:grin2:

Semantics. :tongue:

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 23:20

Shhhh... Some people are trying to sleep in this town :yes:

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-06-2011, 23:46

Not me. I am boarding up my home, installing all sorts of insecticide traps, loading my home defense cannon, and smashing whatever electronic things I see.

[MAFIA] Johnny

07-06-2011, 23:48

Or you could just move. Just make sure the moving van doesn't have a radio.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-06-2011, 23:55

See? That's why you're such an inconvenient person, Tony. Stress. It's gonna kill you one day :wink:

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-06-2011, 23:57

I actually used to be known as Fit Tony, before the stress got to me and I became a nervous eater. So I think it's the heart disease that will get me.

Captain Blackadder

07-07-2011, 03:00

I'm not hopeful.

Though it would be ironic if the one time I didn't have CB at the top of my lynch list for half the game, he was actually mafia.

You are right not to be hopeful.

Askthepizzaguy

07-07-2011, 20:11

Fat Tony;2053339217']I actually used to be known as Fit Tony, before the stress got to me and I became a nervous eater. So I think it's the heart disease that will get me.

You probably use the radio devices because you're too fat to do anything else.

GeneralHankerchief

07-07-2011, 22:01

Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet.

Chief of Police JuJuBee, noticing a draft in his office, poked around the Frontroom Police Department until he came to a usually-locked door labelled "Armory". The lock was smashed and the door was kicked open. Peering inside, JuJuBee didn't really notice anything was different, until he came to the wall on the far side of the room. Normally taken up by a very large axe, the sort of thing an extremely manly and powerful Canadian lumberjack would use, the wall was instead empty.

"Uh-oh," JuJu said to himself, aware of the implications.

Bruno couldn't sleep. He would not be so foolish as to take melatonin, Nyquil, and elephant tranquilizer unlike his dearly departed friend Richie. Not with the odds of surviving so low tonight. He would instead try to fall asleep by slowly tuning out to the steady patter of raindrops on his window, while still remaining alert enough to deal with any potential threats to come into his home.

The problem was the thunder and lightning. It was three things not conducive to good sleep: loud, bright, and irregular. Bruno had no idea of predicting when it would next come, which kept him unfortunately awake, his reflexes becoming less and less effective as the need for sleep became ever greater but it would still not come. He was a prisoner to predict when the next streak of lightning followed by the inevitable crash of thunder would come.

*CRASH!*

There it was, but it sounded different. Closer. And there was - yes, that was most definitely the sound of broken glass. That was most definitely a draft of wind and rain coming through his window. Someone had most definitely broken into his room. Unable to turn the light on (the power was still out), Bruno had to squint to see a large figure dressed as a lumberjack, holding an impressive-looking axe.

"Hi, I'm here to do a survey about your police protection," the mafioso said ridiculously, but for some reason Bruno went along with it, probably because he was too dazed to do anything else at the moment. "Overall, how safe would you say you feel with JuJuBee protecting you and keeping order in the Frontroom?" He said all of this as his impressive silhouette held up the axe menacingly.

"Uh... not very," Bruno managed.

"Excellent," the mafioso said. "Now then, would you feel more or less safe if Beirut was still the Chief of Police here?

"Beirut?" Bruno was confused.

The mafioso was taken aback. "Do you not remember Beirut? Ah well, let me tell you a story. Beirut was the first Chief of Police here, from 2006 to 2008-9 or so. Unlike with JuJuBee, he had an absolute iron fist when dealing with the mafia, let me tell you. Most of his executions were done here with this very axe, and all of the mafiosi who ever attacked this town lived in fear of that man and his axe. Even though Beirut gave the Frontroom the name 'Kingdom of Peace and Love,' man, he defended this place with the fury of a beserker. Not like today..." The mafioso trailed off, clearly reminiscing about better days.

Bruno, in a moment of clarity, finally snapped awake. He knew what to do. Reaching under his pillow, he took out a pistol which he had prepared for any instance such as this that might arise. Aiming it at the mafioso, he prepared to fire, but the mafioso was too quick, with one swing of his axe not removing the gun from Bruno's hand but removing Bruno's hand from the rest of his arm. As Bruno screamed in pain, the mafioso smiled, raising his axe high.

"And so it comes down to this," the mafioso said. "To quote Jeremiah 51:20 - 'Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms!'" He swung the axe down a second time, this time connecting with Bruno's neck.

Luigi had had enough. Enough of the threat of being killed, enough of the incredibly stressful votes day after day, enough after the wind itself seemingly had been out to get him for days now. He was leaving this town, leaving it to whatever fate it would have. Good riddance.

Of course, poor Luigi should have known better by now that anything electronic was not to be trusted. When Luigi went out in the morning to make his escape, he failed to notice that someone had attached a second, larger antenna to his car.

Just as Luigi was reaching the city limits (yes, the Frontroom *does* have a border), the second antenna took over. Luigi found himself no longer in control of the car as it steered itself around, keeping him within the city limits and heading towards a large warehouse. Just as Luigi was about to crash, the double doors swung open and the car proceeded inside. The car came to a stop as Luigi formulated a new plan: unbuckle himself, smash through the window, and run for his life. However, the car was not cooperating. Even the seatbelt refused to come undone, keeping Luigi a prisoner in his own car.

He could only sit and watch as - hey, this never happened before! - and oddly-placed sunroof opened, right above his head as opposed to the middle of the car. Luigi was absolutely positive that there was no such sunroof there even one day ago. Luigi was now starting to sweat.

*Snap!* The seatbelts finally came undone. Luigi had a half a second to scramble out for freedom - no. The next instant he found himself launching through the air, the victim of a newly-installed ejector seat. This had also not been previously part of his car, Luigi was sure of. Luigi had the nerve to look up, and found himself heading straight for a giant green pipe. Terrified beyond comprehension, Luigi could only hold on to dear life as the pipe's pneumatic system kept Luigi going.

The pipe started twisting and turning as Luigi's hellish ride continued. Along the way, he felt a series of splotches of paint (green), as well as the sounds of duct tape - things were being taped to his hands and back, what felt like a plunger and tape recorder. Luigi, though, was past the point of caring, only wanting things to end. And finally, they did, with him being launched out of the pipe which was placed at a 45-degree angle to the ground.

Luigi went screaming through the pouring rain, almost getting caught by a flash of lightning, until he finally landed across town in the Chief of Police's newly-renovated office, once again smashing through JuJuBee's window and ruining his Judy Garland shrine. Once Luigi finally died of his wounds, the pulse-activated tape recorder on his back kicked in, playing the following over and over again:

"It's-a me, Luigi! Also, Ingrid Bergman was better."

Later that day, Chief of Police JuJuBee gathered the remaining villagers into the Frontroom square in order to make an announcement.

"Okay, everyone," he said to the three villagers left, "so it all comes down to this. Beirut's axe is missing, my Judy Garland shrine is ruined yet again, and the Frontroom is now officially on the verge of extinction. The two deaths today were Bruno, also known as Ibn-Khaldun, and Luigi, better known as glyphz. Honor their memory and the rest of the ghosts of this poor town by getting this lynch right and finishing the mafia for good!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (3)
Angelo
Emilio
Fat Tony

Wrath of God:
spL1tp3r50naL1ty (Frank)

Killed:
Winston Hughes (Chickenman)
robbiecon (Giuseppe)
Visorslash (Maria)
johnhughthom (Christopher)
issaikhaan (Furio)
Death is yonder (Carlo)
Seon (Fingers)
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88 (Big George)
Earthling (Nick)
Csargo (Mickey)
Ashurnasirpal II (Salvatore)
B_Ray (Paulie)
White_eyes:D (Ralph)
Ignoramus (Luciano)
Romanic (Bobby)
Secura/a completely inoffensive name (Pete)
Believer/Greyblades (Fredo)
ArpeggiateTHIS (Giorgio)
Renata (Sonny)
Beefy187 (Richie)
Ibn-Khaldun (Bruno)
glyphz (Luigi)

Executed:
Jolt (Pedro)
Andres (Rocco)
Chaotix (Joe)
Sigurd (Claudia)
Centurion1 (Connie)
Diamondeye (Bugsy)
autolycus (Vincent)
Populus Romanus (Johnny)
Askthepizzaguy (Anne)
Captain Blackadder (Bertha)

Player list:
Romanic
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Visorslash
Beefy187
Greyblades
Renata
Csargo
Populus Romanus
B_Ray
White_eyes:D
Jolt
Captain Blackadder
Seon
glyphz
Ibn-Khaldun
Death is yonder
Askthepizzaguy
Diamondeye
TheLastDays
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
ArpeggiateTHIS
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88
Winston Hughes
Kagemusha
issaikhaan
a completely inoffensive name
autolycus
robbiecon
Earthling
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ashurnasirpal II
Sigurd
johnhughthom
Andres

It is now Day 11 - the final day. Voting will last for 24 hours. Best of luck, you three.

Populus Romanus

07-07-2011, 22:09

Its Fat Tony...it has to be.

[MAFIA] Emilio

07-07-2011, 22:29

vote: Fat Tony. It has to be him.

Earthling

07-07-2011, 22:41

That's either a fake writeup already, an absurdly terrible decision by the scum, or Emilio is our boy.

The first it doesn't matter how you all vote, the second is daring and unlikely, so vote Emilio you guys.

If it's Fat Tony this is suicidal so the only conclusion is that this was a purposeful setup to make an easy lynch on him. If it's Angelo he should have died a couple days ago when the phase was extended and Anne suicided so we could live with blaming that. Both of them would have done really well over the course of the whole game regardless. Emilio just flirted with the WoG and never died when he should have plus there's no explanation why he's not dead now. A minor tut-tut if it was another scum not killing Emilio and making for a real endgame to win the last day's lynch outright through cunning strategy, except it's probably not and Emilio is scum.

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 00:32

Emilio;2053339623']vote: Fat Tony. It has to be him.

The Tie:

Angelo: 3 (Bertha, Fat Tony, Emilio)
Fat Tony: 3 (Sonny, Luigi, Richie)
Anne: 3 (Angelo, Bruno, Anne)

How so?

The black are the alive players. The red is probably guilty. The blue are either innocent for sure, or Anne/Askthepizzaguy, who I happen to have the didn't do it card.

You're saying that Fat Tony let himself hang until after the extension? Wasn't voting for Anne until he was basically forced to?

Next, Fat Tony-as-scum left Angelo alive. You know, the guy he's been trying to lynch. Don't you think Angelo might be willing to vote for Fat Tony?

Bertha votes Angelo
Sonny votes Fat Tony
Angelo votes Fat Tony
Anne votes Fat Tony
Fredo votes Fat Tony, but he's dead.
Bruno votes Anne
Fat Tony votes Angelo

GH allows the round to extend, with Fat Tony in the lead.

Emilio votes Angelo (says he likes ties)
Bruno votes Angelo
Angelo self-votes.
Luigi votes Fat Tony
Anne repeats vote for Fat Tony
Angelo votes Anne
Anne votes for Anne
Bruno votes Anne
Richie votes Fat Tony
Anne unvotes, votes Anne, ensuring it is a tie.

GH extends the round into a tie-breaker

Angelo: 3 (Bertha, Fat Tony, Emilio)
Fat Tony: 3 (Sonny, Luigi, Richie)
Anne: 3 (Angelo, Bruno, Anne)

Angelo doesn't break the tie.
Angelo doesn't break the tie again.
Bruno votes anne again, doesn't matter.
Angelo AGAIN doesn't break the tie.
Fat Tony votes Anne.

So, you have Angelo who did absolutely nothing to save himself. Only motive for that would be Fat Tony as his partner... Which makes no sense, given how they voted for each other and are both still alive. It's not the case that Angelo and Fat Tony are both guilty. At least of them is innocent. Angelo didn't break the tie and lynch Fat Tony, which is what any respectable mafioso would do.

Fat Tony finally shows up and breaks the tie.

But pardon me, ladies and gentlemen, but all three folks voting for Fat Tony were townies.

So, that means Fat Tony and any remaining partner he might have had, allowed the round to end in a tie. With Fat Tony's head on the line, when BOTH Fat Tony and mystery man partner, could have VOTED TOGETHER to turn the lynch on Anne or the lynch on Angelo into the winning lynch.

Something be wrong with your theory, yo.

Angelo is not a scumbag, by virtue of the fact that he doesn't break the tie to save himself.
Fat Tony is a scumbag only if his partner is already dead by that round. Possible.
I like Emilio for scum. His reason for vote was entirely absurd, and he doesn't put in the effort necessary for a win.

No lurker victories, kill Emilio. The only peeps left are Kagemusha, TheLastDays, and Crazed Rabbit. And all three of those people know better than to put on a performance this bad as townie.

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-08-2011, 01:25

vote: emilio

Time to die, lurker.

Romanic

07-08-2011, 05:58

@ATPG - It's perfectly possible that Fat Tony didn't break the tie because he wasn't around to do it early, but eventually he's the one who broke it, voting for you.

Also, you're coming to this conclusion:

Fat Tony is a scumbag only if his partner is already dead by that round. Possible.
"Possible" or rather "Very Likely" or even "Almost Likely", because if Fat Tony is mafia, his partner would not have been alive during the tie unless it was Bertha, who was the only lynch after the tie, and given that Fat Tony pushed Bertha ahead to be lynched** then they were surely not partners, not in a game with no death reveals.

** Post #771, Fat Tony moves his vote to Bertha, making the tally Bertha 3, Luigi 2.

So yeah, Fat Tony, if he's mafia, was the lone mafia during the tie you are referring to.

About Angelo, he was a WOG candidate for not voting during the first three days. Only for this, I am tempted to let him live, and anyways Renata made a very good case on Fat Tony that should be followed.

Everyone's final votes:

Angelo: Connie, Rocco, Fat Tony, Claudia, Connie. Bugsy, Vincent, Johnny, Anne, Bertha
Emilio: no vote, no vote, no vote, Connie, no vote, Frank, no vote, Anne, Angelo, Bertha
Fat Tony: no vote, Fingers, Sonny, no vote, Frank, Bobby, Bobby, Richie, Angelo, Bertha

Blue = Townie (they were killed at night)
Green = WOGed, Frank only (probably Townie)
Orange = Lynched players, one of them was mafia since the game is still going.

Angelo only voted for lynched players and was on the winning bandwagon 8 days out of 10. If he's mafia, his partners was either Pedro (lynched D2) or Joe (lynched D4). I find it very unlikely since they were early lynches and Angelo's vote wasn't helping them.

Emilio, again, didn't vote on the first three days, and was named a WOG candidate. It's dangerous play if he's mafia, GH could have decided to WOG him without warning, and since the last 3 players are TLD, Kage and CR, it's probable that one of them just didn't have time during that period, rather than play lurky on purpose.

Fat Tony voted for six times for confirmed townies, didn't vote 2 times, and only lynched one (Bertha yesterday). His vote were bad since all he could do was vote townie after townie... To me this speaks of someone who's not looking for scum. He got it wrong time after time!!!

And beside, just look at his last post, does he even try? ATPG makes a case and he goes "time to die lurker". Whoever he is between Kage, TLD and Crazed Rabbit, he's downplaying on purpose. None of these players would play a final round like this, right?

Lynch Fat Tony please.

Romanic

07-08-2011, 06:00

Btw, since this is the final round, I think players should reveal who they are, so we can have a better idea of everyone's play, based on their true identity.

TheLastDays

07-08-2011, 06:05

arghs... thanks Romanic...

Romanic

07-08-2011, 06:08

Oh come on, vote Fat Tony and let's be done with it. Self voting now? Meh.

Also, you might want to post that vote under your anonymous name. :P

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 06:35

Oh come on, you're making this too easy for me. You should at least make me work on my Mafia victory, not offer me both your heads on a plate :wink:

Anyway... either of you is scum, or both if GH feels like torturing me... But if it's just one I have a hard decision coming up... I have already told a bunch of people that I'm not going to vote Emilio because, honestly, if he's scum and wins it I just don't bother. I'd consider this playstyle cheating as Mafia and I don't mind losing to that...

On the other hand it is more plausible that Emilio is the scumbag here but that could have been Tony's intention...

ah well, I probably just misread my role PM and it's me... vote: Angelo - I like ties...

Visor

07-08-2011, 07:08

Fat Tony is Crazed Rabbit and Emilio is Kagemusha.

Ashamedly, it's the posts that give you guys off to me.

Kage always has puncuation errors and spelling errors in his posts, and CR has perfect spelling, etc. (At least in the ATPG game, and it looks the same here.)

So that's my view. With lynch the lurker. I've done it and lost and I've done it and salvaged a victory because they were on my side.

Really not sure between the three of you... but my gut says either Fat Tony or Angelo. I think Emilio isn't mafia. Maybe.

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 07:09

Meh, Romanic's case has a lot of merit. I have also been off-the-mark enough times this game. I've been working too much and unable to do clear analysis.

Go with Romanic. I think I forfeit my townie creds when I pwned myself.

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 07:12

Also, Fat Tony: You honestly need to go on a diet. Lose about 10 pounds from the neck up.

Visor

07-08-2011, 07:15

You needed to have a new post to say that?

Anyway, on the Angelo self vote, it could be a ballsy move getting the town player to trust him, as surely a mafia wouldn't selfvote in the final phase? But it could also backfire if the scum puts a vote on him near end of the time, or the town player doesn't believe him. Or the scums could be left with just one townie. I dunno.

Romanic

07-08-2011, 07:32

Also, here's Renata's case on Fat Tony (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135978-Mafia-X-In-play&p=2053336010&viewfull=1#post2053336010).

It's a good, yummy case, and Renata was killed after voting Fat Tony two days in a row. Obviously he couldn't leave her alive for the endgame.

Lynch the fat man!

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 07:35

It could be a ballsy move... but one that's not really needed, given that the others already voted each other :P

Ah well.. unvote, vote: Emilio
Now's the time to speak, boy

I'm not sure, Romanic. Why did he leave me alive then? I've voted him numerous times and have stated that I wanted him lynched...

Visor

07-08-2011, 07:36

But were people following your votes?

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 07:41

Angelo;2053339802']I'm not sure, Romanic. Why did he leave me alive then? I've voted him numerous times and have stated that I wanted him lynched...

Maybe you're his sugar daddy.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 07:42

Some did, but what difference does that make for the endgame? My vote's dangerous on it's own on the last day

Romanic

07-08-2011, 08:16

Angelo;2053339802']I'm not sure, Romanic. Why did he leave me alive then? I've voted him numerous times and have stated that I wanted him lynched...

I've already made several arguments showing that it could be Fat Tony. Even if he didn't kill you, after you voted twice for him, it doesn't disprove my case. Are you expecting him to have killed all people who voted for him at some point in the game? Are you expecting him to leave even more clues that he is the remaining mafia by killing the three players who voted him during the tie?

I'm curious to hear what you have on Emilio to beat Renata's case and mine. Is it only because he was inactive?

Don't you think a mafia would be more active than missing the three first votes and be a WOG candidate on Day 6:

It is now Day 6! Voting will last for approximately 24 hours.

WOG Warning: Emilio, Frank, Luciano. PMs are going out now. I no longer have replacement players lined up either.

Emilio;2053333700']Vote: Frank. Thank you for the reminder. I will try to get more involved in this game from now on.

And Day 8:

WOG Warning: Emilio.

Emilio;2053335801']vote: Anne.I am really trying to keep up with the game.

Looks Town to me. Looks like someone who doesn't have much time to play mafia. Risking two WOGs, that's ballsy, and whether he's Crazed Rabbit or Kagemusha, I would expect them to be more active in a GH game, unless yes, they don't have much time to be active.

Personally, I think Emilio's behavior doesn't look fake, unlike Fat Tony.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 08:40

Thing is, not being active because he doesn't have time doesn't clear him of suspicion. The RNG that decides who's Mafia won't factor in future activity and the time a player has to play so he could well be Mafia and genuinely not have much time to play. Then of course they'd factor that into their strategy. Sure it's ballsy to flirt with a WoG but then again they know that GH would probably hesitate before Wogging scum and they still got the warning.

Kagemusha

07-08-2011, 11:34

lol

[MAFIA] Emilio

07-08-2011, 11:36

Ok. I will speak. As i have said before. I have had next to no time to play this one. Angelo, your self vote and then flipping to me, stink´s to high heaven as scum. Unvote and vote: Angelo

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 11:43

No, my friend, it's you

Visor

07-08-2011, 11:44

It's actually Fat Tony. Now switch to him.

Knew it. @ Kage

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 11:54

Yeah, the activities of this round only make it more and more obvious to me that it is likely Fat Tony.

Slipped into my scumdar, and quickly slipped out, it seems. Should have expected as much from The Crazed Rabbit, the most undetectable mafioso of all time.

Really good play, this game, if true. Darn you, wabbit. Darn you and your fat fatness.

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 12:04

Emilio;2053339901']Ok. I will speak. As i have said before. I have had next to no time to play this one. Angelo, your self vote and then flipping to me, stink´s to high heaven as scum. Unvote and vote: Angelo

This looks scummy to me... I don't buy that he really believes I'm scum, especially not with that much of a conviction. No, he needed to stir things up because he was losing :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 12:15

That would be true even if he's townie, though. His better chance of winning is voting for anyone who is voting for him, because if he's townie, he can't win with the other townie voting for him anyway.

I have seen Kage drop his activity levels from being busy before, and I haven't seen him resort to outright hiding to avoid detection as mafia. At least, from HIM, it would be a new strategy.

I also don't think I want to admit that Kagemusha actually avoided my Kage-catching net for once. It's bad for my mojo. Pizza needs Emilio to be innocent, or the shame will be great.

Look at Fat Tony's vote on Emilio "kill the lurker". Does that really sound like he's caring about who dies on this, the final round? Romanic and Renata have a very good case. You and I both thought Fat Tony was scum several rounds back, and we couldn't tell for sure if Bertha or Fat Tony were scummier. Are you absolutely sure about this one, TheLastAngelo?

Visor

07-08-2011, 12:26

Kill Fat Tony. Please. Imma begging you.

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 12:34

Don't make me start singing "I can't fight this lynching anymore". Because I will.

Visor

07-08-2011, 12:36

At least I can't really be blamed for the loss (If we lose). :P

Nor the win, if we win either. :P

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 12:38

You do realize, of course, if it is Fat Tony, then I unvoted the mafia scum and helped him lynch me to save himself from what would have been certain death, and argued on this round that he was innocent based on reasoning that was immediately and correctly pointed out to be nonsense.

I feel like if he wins, he should thank me for being his really witless ally.

Visor

07-08-2011, 12:41

I'm just waiting for the sun to fall. And have been since Night 1. :(

When I'm scum, I'm only going to kill lurkers....

Renata

07-08-2011, 13:47

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 13:59

I'm still waiting for Pizza to sing :D

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 14:12

Angelo;2053339963']I'm still waiting for Pizza to sing :D

Once again (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?119802-Capo-di-Tutti-Capi-III-Concluded&p=2337800&viewfull=1#post2337800), Dedicated to my friend, Fat Tony.

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I cant fight this lynching any longer
And yet Im still afraid to let go
What started out as suspicion, has grown stronger
I only wish I had the votes to make it not so

I tell myself that I can hold out forever
I said there is no reason for my fear
Cause I feel so secure when we vote together
You give my life direction
You make everything so clear

And even as I'm dying
Im putting up a fight
There's still a bit of a window
of time to stop this fright
But Im getting closer than I ever thought I might

And I cant fight this lynching anymore
Ive forgotten what I started fighting for
Its time to bring this ship into the shore
And throw away the oars, forever

Cause I cant fight this lynching anymore
Ive forgotten what I started fighting for
And if I have to crawl upon the floor
Come crashing through your door
Baby, I cant fight this lynching anymore

My life has been such a whirlwind since that tie-breaker
Ive been arguing in circles in the thread
And it always seems that you're out to get me, town zombies
Cause you take me to the gallows that alone I'd never reach

And even as I'm dyin', revenge is on the minds
of every dead townie that I have killed at night
And it's getting closer than I ever thought it might

But I cant fight this lynching anymore
Ive forgotten what I started fighting for
Its time to bring this ship into the shore
And throw away the oars, forever

Cause I cant fight this lynching anymore
Ive forgotten what I started fighting for
And if I have to crawl upon the floor
Come crushing through your door
Fat Tony cant fight this lynching anymore.

Renata

07-08-2011, 14:23

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 14:43

Alright... because Emilio and I like ties :D

unvote, vote: Fat Tony

[MAFIA] Fat Tony

07-08-2011, 14:59

If Fat Tony's going to vote for the lurker without even the decency of a formal "me too" on the last day after goign Luigi-or-Angelo, gotta be Luigi-or-Angelo over and over for teh last several days (and Angelo sitting right there in front of him ripe for the voting), then he deserves to die.

I don't quite understand that.

Anyway, Angelo's self vote caused me to reexamine the thread. I am now sure who the mafia is; Angelo.

He's piggy-backed on other people the whole game. Even now, after the townie chorus has decided I'm guilty (after declaring for several days I'm innocent, even after my biggest opponents where whacked, so clearly who can trust them?) he vote for Emilio, just because that's who's easiest to lynch. For days he's hunted me, and now he abandons that?

Wait. As I was writing this he changes his vote to me. Could he be scummier?

If I, poor ole differently-weighted-Tony, was mafia, would I really have left just Angelo and Emilio alive? Of course not. The game would have been in the bag if I kept Bruno and Angelo alive (and if you want to see why, check out the killing choices at the end of the only GH Mafia game not won by Kage). And even if I did do that, would I have made such a poor post as my vote for Emilio?

Instead we have this ridiculous theory that I'm mafia.

If Bertha was my partner I could have easily switched yesterday's vote and convinced another person to do likewise. Renata/Sonny's case on me has always been a mistaken activation of her scum-radar that she just won't let go.

I think most of you just want me lynched because the prospect of me, who's been close to being lynched a couple times, winning as mafia is worse for your sense of dignity than Angelo winning.

Even now Angelo switches votes willy-nilly. Clearly he's watching the thread and ready to switch votes as necessary to confuse the town and kill anyone besides himself.

Seriously folks. Try and tell me how I would have left Angelo and Emilio alive if I were mafia.

At the end of this round ATPG will be proven wrong about me; of that I am completely sure.

unvote, vote: Angelo

[MAFIA] Angelo

07-08-2011, 15:15

Ok, all calm down a bit. If I was scum I had this game in the bag numerous times today.

I had it in the bag when you both voted each other and with just a decent vote for one of you I could have sealed the bag and carried the win home. Instead I played this silly self vote game.

Even then I had it in the bag when I voted Emilio and could have sealed it by just remaining silent. Yea, right, I changed my vote while you were writing this. It took you about twenty minutes to write that :daisy:? Instead I changed my vote to you and what happens? Tony stops eatin' for a moment and lets out some half baken idea about me being scum when that doesn't make any sense at all after my actions today.

No, in fact my "willy-nilly" vote juggling has finally reaped the results I needed to decide. Thanks for your attention, gentlemen, Emilio, vote Fat Tony!

Renata

07-08-2011, 15:21

Obviously, since he's called you a townie at least once as well as calling you mafia today. I think you just made a funny. :thumbsup:

Why should you be alive, Fat Tony? Yesterday half the players were calling you an obvious innocent based on ATPG's vote analysis. Angelo might leave you alive, granted (since picking up an earlier case is easier than creating one out of whole cloth), but he'd have to be nuts to keep Emilio around as the other option given that both of you voted him in the past, and recently.

(Possible caveat: if ALL of Luigi, Bruno, Emilio and Fat Tony have voted Angelo recently, this doesn't mean anything. Can anyone check?)

Emilio has no motive to leave you alive, yet here you are, and you voted for him first.

What I mean by that comment you picked out is that you've been talking about Luigi being mafia (and if not him, Angelo) and vice versa for the past several days. But you didn't come out and vote Angelo given this golden opportunity of it being teh final day and him still around. You voted for Emilio based on someone else's case.

Do you really want me to give the potential motive for you to keep Angelo alive? It's not hard to imagine, even if it is all WIFOM. But it's WIFOM for everybody.

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 15:28

Fat Tony;2053339985']I don't quite understand that.

Anyway, Angelo's self vote caused me to reexamine the thread. I am now sure who the mafia is; Angelo.

Because he likes letting anyone who passes by have the ability to switch their votes and lynch him during a tie.

He's piggy-backed on other people the whole game. Even now, after the townie chorus has decided I'm guilty (after declaring for several days I'm innocent, even after my biggest opponents where whacked, so clearly who can trust them?)

Now here's a big steaming pile of cow dung. What are you trying to say? That townies can't change their minds? Certainly not like the way you have whenever it's been expedient to keep you alive? Who can trust the people who have been whacked? How can you argue in a way that just undermines your credibility so badly?

he vote for Emilio, just because that's who's easiest to lynch. For days he's hunted me, and now he abandons that?

So, if people latch onto you and don't let go, like Sonny, they're just mistaken and not letting go, but if they change their minds, they're abandoning? It's interesting that you can paint both behaviors as negative.

Wait. As I was writing this he changes his vote to me. Could he be scummier?

Could you?

If I, poor ole differently-weighted-Tony, was mafia, would I really have left just Angelo and Emilio alive? Of course not.

Not the WIFOM argument....

The game would have been in the bag if I kept Bruno and Angelo alive (and if you want to see why, check out the killing choices at the end of the only GH Mafia game not won by Kage). And even if I did do that, would I have made such a poor post as my vote for Emilio?

Are you arguing that you're not scum because your obviously horrendous and expedient vote for Emilio wasn't scummy because it was too scummy to be scummy?

Instead we have this ridiculous theory that I'm mafia.

Laugh it up, fuzzball.

If Bertha was my partner I could have easily switched yesterday's vote and convinced another person to do likewise. Renata/Sonny's case on me has always been a mistaken activation of her scum-radar that she just won't let go.

So maybe Bertha's not your partner, I can believe that. That's why the whole reasoning for your not being mafia unraveled pretty quickly.

I think most of you just want me lynched because the prospect of me, who's been close to being lynched a couple times, winning as mafia is worse for your sense of dignity than Angelo winning.

That line of reasoning might work for someone who people genuinely loathe to see win as mafia, such as Annethepizzaman, but for Crazed Rabbit, I don't think so.

We've already said it's a game-winning performance and we'd like to punish Kagemusha for his absentee play or intentional lurking, and it would REALLY suck to lose to that guy via lurking. Nobody likes a lurker victory.

I don't buy this argument from you, and the reasoning you think we're using is non-existent. Crazed Rabbit deserves to win games, especially if he's not been lurking and has been killing off all the threats to him and going "who, me?"

No, the reason people want you dead is because they think you're mafia, not because they're afraid of you winning a game as mafia and want to prevent that at any cost, even at the cost of the game. Here you're playing a sympathy card you don't have.

Even now Angelo switches votes willy-nilly. Clearly he's watching the thread and ready to switch votes as necessary to confuse the town and kill anyone besides himself.

He often sits online and posts frequently in games. You, on the other hand, have been so kind as to make several posts and longer posts and more verbose posts that directly respond to people only when you've been under pressure. I've seen you act this way before. You're very happy to watch town destroy itself and vote for townies and let those lynches happen when you're scum, but when you're under pressure, it's time to put on the boxing gloves.

Seriously folks. Try and tell me how I would have left Angelo and Emilio alive if I were mafia.

So you could say "Seriously folks, try and tell me how I would have left Angelo and Emilio alive if I were mafia."

If I were mafia is one of the scummiest things anyone can possibly say.

At the end of this round ATPG will be proven wrong about me; of that I am completely sure.

Why just me, old buddy old pal? Considering I had suspicion on you, but wasn't the first one, and subsequently abandoned my suspicion.... and of course, Renata and Romanic were the ones who were after you, and pressed on you hard, I feel you're not giving credit where credit is due.

I'm not your primary antagonist here. I'm not your first accuser, last accuser, or even a voter anymore. So you're failing to acknowledge that those who are to be "proven wrong" about you are many people who have put more effort into it than I have.

And if in the end I am proven wrong about you, it will be only fitting, given it was you who made me finally and mercifully dead.

I would look forward to sharing a grave with you, but I'm afraid they'll need at least two for your big fat guilty butt.

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2011, 16:54

It's not a case of WIFOM if I could avoided attention altogether today by killing someone else if I was mafia. Which I'm not. Any behavior that paints me as scummy is negative because I'm not scum.

But you know what? I don't have to explain myself to the likes of you. The only people who matter are those who alive by virtue of not being killed, lynched, or lynching themselves ~;p. And since angelo is the scum here (would I drop the ball so close to victory with that poor vote on emilio if I were mafia?) that means I just need to convince emilio.

Sweet, sweet emilio. You know what's right. You know that if we just lynch angelo the town will be at peace again. Don't listen to those grumps fooled by angelo and his scummy ways.

CR

TheLastDays

07-08-2011, 17:30

He is a rabbit and he's crazy. Who would listen to that? See how he's trying to sweet-talk his way out of this? I am not scum. Choose wisely Emilio.

Earthling

07-08-2011, 18:52

Great Scot guys this is a mess.

IT'S EMILIO. Lynch him already.

First, apparently it needs a very clear explanation of why the nightkills make almost no sense for it to be somebody else. If Angelo or Fat Tony were scum they've been paying attention and planning well the whole time so they couldn't be ignorant. The only possibility is that they purposefully chose the wrong nightkills out of sympathy for the town or to try something crazy funny even if they lose.

Bruno was going to lynch Luigi; Luigi was obvious scumbait. Leave those two alive and it would have been basically a guaranteed win lynching Luigi (which is why we should have lynched him long ago). At the same time, there's even less reason to leave Emilio alive no matter what if he's town. Emilio has never given a reason or thought process on anything, so he could well have placed a fairly random vote this last day, terribly dangerous for the scum.

On top of that, Fat Tony doesn't make sense for explaining prior nightkills too. And Angelo as mentioned, could well have been lynched a couple days ago, he was saved by a townie suiciding and purposefully self-voting, there's no way at all a scum could have relied on that and it'd be a huge coincidence.

So Fat Tony and Angelo need to put aside their mutual dislike (another reason to doubt either of them are scum -why would they keep someone alive they knew kinda hated them?) and lynch Emilio.

The nightkills only make sense for Emilio, who maybe thought he couldn't rely on a Luigi lynch or thought Fat Tony was an easy one today. Angelo or Fat Tony look townie for other reasons why Emilio doesn't, he didn't even get WoG'd. And if it was Angelo or Fat Tony we'd be losing to a mafiaoso giving an amazingly creative performance, who could have had an easier win today anyway, while Emilio is a lurker who did nothing but avoid a WoG and should have died a while ago.

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2011, 18:53

I'm crazed, thank you very much. The real mafia is clear to me; angelo and anne. AtPG sacrificed himself so he could cover for angelo at the end.

And I guess emilio is sticking with his choice of Angelo for the lynch. :beam:

CR

Earthling

07-08-2011, 19:00

There's simply no explanation for the scum not leaving Bruno and Luigi alive taking that they're both town from last night. Join Bruno and lynch Luigi and it's game. Emilio is a wild card far too dangerous if he's town. So the only way he's alive is because he didn't murder himself (and as an outsider/severe lurker didn't think the Luigi situation worked for him or thought the mutual dislike between Angelo/Tony would do it for him).

TheLastDays

07-08-2011, 19:22

Someone is making a mistake that will cost them the game...

Renata

07-08-2011, 19:25

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2011, 19:59

Earthling is as right as ever to name me innocent. Everyone should listen to him and heed his advice to vote for someone who is not me. Angelo, that means you. Vote for emilio if you want, though voting for yourself would be better. Because you're mafia.

So don't try to beguile the town with your scummy ways. If you weren't so guilty why do you argue so hard to lynch me, even after Earthling, the innoccence-proclaimer, has proclaimed me innocent? Only a mafioso would cling to life so dearly. Well you've lost! The world will soon be rid of your wicked ways.

CR

Romanic

07-08-2011, 20:15

Emilio;2053339901']Ok. I will speak. As i have said before. I have had next to no time to play this one. Angelo, your self vote and then flipping to me, stink´s to high heaven as scum. Unvote and vote: Angelo

It will be a shame if TLD is Town and Kage voted him because of his self-vote. When will people understand that self-voting is terrible? :stare:

Anyway, Fat Tony/CR is clearly the scum here, and I wish Kage will come back in time to realize this.

Votes so far in this round:

Emilio votes Fat Tony (Fat Tony 1)
Fat Tony votes Emilio (Fat Tony 1, Emilio 1)
Angelo votes Angelo (Fat Tony 1, Emilio 1, Angelo 1)
Angelo votes Emilio (Emilio 2, Fat Tony 1)
Emilio votes Angelo (Emilio 2, Angelo 1)
Angelo votes Fat Tony (Emilio 1, Angelo 1, Fat Tony 1)
Fat Tony votes Angelo (Angelo 2, Fat Tony 1)

Fat Tony is moving his vote to survive, not because his suspicions have changed, that much is clear from his timing and his posts in this round.

GeneralHankerchief

07-08-2011, 21:01

One hour left.

TheLastDays

07-08-2011, 21:11

It's more than clear! My whole behaviour makes no :daisy: sense if I was scum and I just want to remind y'all that Tony should have died a few rounds ago when I (and others) voted him until y'all went "vote Angelo" and basically "forced" me to vote Pizza.

Renata

07-08-2011, 21:29

Oh you voted Anne all on your own, don't kid yourself. You had a case and everything.

CR is completely just playing now. (Which is funny, don't get me wrong.)

Askthepizzaguy

07-08-2011, 21:48

Lol at the Crazed Rabbit. Certainly an entertaining performance, even if he's full of :daisy:

Well the inactive Emilio pushes him over the top, congrats you wascawy wabbit. No I wasn't mafia, and I'd be dumbfounded if Angelo was.

Earthling is as right as ever to name me innocent. Everyone should listen to him and heed his advice

This is basically 100% proof that the rabbit should be dead. No one is this loony.

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2011, 22:00

Ah, so angelo tries the tired wifom defense. Only a mafioso would try a tactic this scummy. He says he was forced to vote anne? Bah! He acted as though she were really guilty. Well now your about to be lynched scum, all because you played around with your vote all scum like!

Soon the town shall be victorious and I shall dance on the graves of the scum and everyone who annoyed me! (*Stares at sonny*).

CR

GeneralHankerchief

07-08-2011, 22:01

Voting closed.

Stand by for the execution.

TheLastDays

07-08-2011, 22:02

Time's up you can stop pretending

Earthling

07-08-2011, 22:07

Yeah I can stop pretending, it's been awfully cruel on pizza. You see despite the rules that almost everyone read very explicitly saying there's exactly one mafia team that's not true. You see I've been part of a cult this whole time and been trying to keep my recruited cultmates alive even after I died. Pedro of course was our cult leader, a bit too obvious really, but looks like one of the cultists made it to the end anyway. Good job guys.

Though Fat Tony why did you kill Nick? I made clear I was going to wipe out anyone with an "L" or an "R" in their name and you could have just used the help! grr

Renata

07-08-2011, 22:32

(*Stares at sonny*).

CR

You're just jealous of my baby-soft hands.

GeneralHankerchief

07-08-2011, 22:34

For some reason, Chief of Police JuJuBee had a Bruce Springsteen song stuck in his head. He wasn't sure of the exact title, but knew it was one of The Boss's earlier tunes, maybe even predating Born To Run. The connotations were completely off, the song had something to do with teenagers going down to a spot called Greasy Lake to party. Nevertheless, the song was there to stay, and as JuJuBee mourned the loss of his backup Judy Garland shrine and counted the votes for the 11th time (and there were only three this time, thank God for small favors) the tale of Hazy Davy and Crazy Janey spun through his head.

The dance had begun for the last time, this time a troika between Angelo, Emilio, and Fat Tony. It began normally enough, with the latter two immediately accusing each other and dropping votes against each other. This left Angelo in quite a powerful position, but in a bit of gallows humor (it seemed that even after 11 days of torture, Angelo's spirit was not yet broken) Angelo self-voted, if only temporary. That's when the troika began to spin faster.

After a time, the partners changed. Angelo, perhaps realizing that now was not quite the best time for gallows humor, took his vote and put it on the ever-quiet Emilio, who had remained a consistent if not very vocal presence throughout the mafia attack. For the first time, Emilio was in serious danger of being lynched. However, the partners weren't done changing. As the imaginary music sped up (both in JuJu's head and the metaphorical music of the danse macabre), Emilio moved his vote over to Angelo, his sense of self-preservation apparently overriding anything else. Angelo, now after 11 days finally starting to get nervous, moved his vote over yet again, this time to Fat Tony.

In the short time remaining of Angelo's life, he reflected that this was probably not a good move. The reason was that his vote was now on the one person who had still yet to make a second move in the dance. As the three continued whirling around, there was more discussion and the wind, as always, seemed to swirl around all three of them, having its say. Finally, Fat Tony made his move, switching his vote from Emilio over to Angelo.

The music stopped, the dancers done for good. There was more discussion, but JuJuBee knew that there would be no more switching of votes. It was pointless. Hoping against hope that Fat Tony and Emilio had gotten things right, he moved over and took Angelo by the shoulders, Angelo who had survived so much, Angelo who was now finally condemned to guilt. He looked over at the two survivors. Fat Tony was wearing an expression of relief that it wasn't him. Emilio's face was unreadable. He had retreated, disappeared once more back into the shadows which had been more or less his home for the past 11 days.

"Angelo," JuJuBee said simply, "Your fate." And there it was, right on the execution platform: a tank filled to the brim with two things: water, and several sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads. The sharks started to swim faster, involved in a dance of their own, almost as if they knew what was coming. JuJu leaned over the tank, produced a needle from somewhere, and poked his index finger once with it. A single drop of blood splashed into the tank, enough to send the sharks over the heads. A couple of laser beams fired off in the distance.

"In you go," said JuJuBee, pushing Angelo, also known as TheLastDays, into the tank as the sharks quickly went to town on his corpse. He hoped that this execution would meet up to old Beirut's standards, Beirut whose legendary axe was still missing from his office. He hoped a search would have it produced in Angelo's house.

JuJu stood alone atop the execution platform, looking off into the distance, staring out at the nearly-empty town. In the more immediate foreground, the two remaining villagers, Crazed Rabbit and Kagemusha were staring each other down.

Day 11 tally:
Angelo: 2 (Emilio, Fat Tony) :skull:
Fat Tony: 1 (Angelo)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (2)
Emilio
Fat Tony

Wrath of God:
spL1tp3r50naL1ty (Frank)

Killed:
Winston Hughes (Chickenman)
robbiecon (Giuseppe)
Visorslash (Maria)
johnhughthom (Christopher)
issaikhaan (Furio)
Death is yonder (Carlo)
Seon (Fingers)
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88 (Big George)
Earthling (Nick)
Csargo (Mickey)
Ashurnasirpal II (Salvatore)
B_Ray (Paulie)
White_eyes:D (Ralph)
Ignoramus (Luciano)
Romanic (Bobby)
Secura/a completely inoffensive name (Pete)
Believer/Greyblades (Fredo)
ArpeggiateTHIS (Giorgio)
Renata (Sonny)
Beefy187 (Richie)
Ibn-Khaldun (Bruno)
glyphz (Luigi)

Executed:
Jolt (Pedro)
Andres (Rocco)
Chaotix (Joe)
Sigurd (Claudia)
Centurion1 (Connie)
Diamondeye (Bugsy)
autolycus (Vincent)
Populus Romanus (Johnny)
Askthepizzaguy (Anne)
Captain Blackadder (Bertha)
TheLastDays (Angelo)

Player list:
Romanic
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Visorslash
Beefy187
Greyblades
Renata
Csargo
Populus Romanus
B_Ray
White_eyes:D
Jolt
Captain Blackadder
Seon
glyphz
Ibn-Khaldun
Death is yonder
Askthepizzaguy
Diamondeye
TheLastDays
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
ArpeggiateTHIS
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88
Winston Hughes
Kagemusha
issaikhaan
a completely inoffensive name
autolycus
robbiecon
Earthling
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ashurnasirpal II
Sigurd
johnhughthom
Andres

Stay tuned in 24 hours or so for the conclusion of Mafia X!

GeneralHankerchief

07-08-2011, 22:35

Before you all yell at me for dragging this out even farther, please know that I'm not doing this to keep you in suspense (well okay, that's part of it, but not the primary reason :tongue:). It's because that I'm going to be engaging in a night of general debauchery in about an hour or two, followed by a day of recovery tomorrow. Mafia is going to be the farthest thing from my mind in the next 24 hours or so, and then I'll return to give this game the wonderful ending it deserves. :yes:

Crazed Rabbit

07-08-2011, 23:15

Well look at that ATPG; I was able to fight the lynch.

Kage, I'm going to be so very peeved if I lose because you lurked your way to a mafia victory. Also, earthling no that is not true.

CR

Sigurd

07-08-2011, 23:38

Well look at that ATPG; I was able to fight the lynch.

Kage, I'm going to be so very peeved if I lose because you lurked your way to a mafia victory. Also, earthling no that is not true.

CR
Kage lurking away to a mafia victory? Never...

johnhughthom

07-08-2011, 23:40

Kage lurking away to a mafia victory? Never...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

TheLastDays

07-09-2011, 00:37

White_eyes:D

07-09-2011, 01:12

Am I seeing this right? Kagemusha(Winner of Mafia I) and Crazed Rabbit(Winner of Mafia VII) in the end game?:shocked2:

Anonymous accounts may lower activity but clearly the more experienced vanilla mafia players still cleaned house.:shame:

TheLastDays

07-09-2011, 02:27

I actually think they were both the Mafia and GH just played with us :P

Earthling

07-09-2011, 04:29

Nah, what's more likely as a fake scenario is that it was Luigi and Bruno (they were suspiciously quiet this last day weren't they?) and all townies were left as a joke for the last day lynch.

White_eyes:D

07-09-2011, 05:41

nevermind.:bow:

Romanic

07-09-2011, 05:55

:furious2::furious2::furious2::furious2::furious2::furious2:

GH STOP DRAGGING THE ENDGAME!!!

Anyway, we lost, unless we already won yesterday. There's no way Fat Tony isn't the scum in the remaining trio.

:bigcry:

Ibn-Khaldun

07-09-2011, 06:42

I'm surprised I survived so long.

Askthepizzaguy

07-09-2011, 09:01

TheLastDays

07-09-2011, 09:07

It will be a shame if TLD is Town and Kage voted him because of his self-vote. When will people understand that self-voting is terrible? :stare:

I'm genuinely sorry that this move was what made Kage, who is probably the other townie, vote me instead of Tony.
I still needed it though, to confirm my suspicions and be sure who to vote for. Had I not pulled all that off and simply voted someone and stuck with it, it would have probably been Emilio only this day and the ensuing actions made me rather sure about Tony.

A part of my mind also thinks they were both scum, because the way CR posted the last two hours of voting time he basically confirmed that he's scum but Kage might just not have been around to call him out for it... anyway, good game, CR. Bad game, TLD. :D

Kagemusha

07-09-2011, 16:03

Alright CR. You better be town. If you are scum, you would only not be the only player to win twice in this game, but also would have broken the "curse" by leaving me last alive. You know that would be bit too much for poor old Kage. TLD. With that self vote, i could not do anything but to vote you. I can only hope i made the right decision. About my activity, you know all? My summer vacation started 2nd of June and ended last monday, so i could not have sat in front of the screen all the time.

Askthepizzaguy

07-09-2011, 16:26

Look on the bright side, Kagemusha. You're about to have a whole lot less on your schedule.

Kagemusha

07-09-2011, 16:29

Look on the bright side, Kagemusha. You're about to have a whole lot less on your schedule.

Uhhh...What you mean by that? If CR butchers me, thats not going to help my schedule one bit.If he wanted to be helpfull.He should have killed me night one.

Askthepizzaguy

07-09-2011, 16:36

Uhhh...What you mean by that? If CR butchers me, thats not going to help my schedule one bit.

Fair enough. I was not picturing a "Weekend at Bernie's"-style solution for keeping your previous commitments.

You're very ded-icated.

White_eyes:D

07-09-2011, 21:45

TLD and I have basically decided that we are primarily responsible for this loss, what with the both of us switching off of Fat Tony and voting for me, but me more so, because I could have single-handedly wiped Fat Tony off the map and I refused to because I was too annoyed at Earthling and White_Eyes constantly saying how I was either mafia or needed to die anyway.

My consolation prize is rubbing it in their faces that my lynch was so horrendous for the town, and I gave them exactly what they wanted, too. That's low Pizzaguy...I can admit I am wrong and yet, your still trying to blame me for getting yourself lynched?

You lynched yourself, plain and simple. You could have fought on and won....but instead you gave up. Now you wish you didn't. It's too late for you to do anything about it and now it's the blame game.:no:

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2011, 22:39

Pizza, wouldn't you have gone after Angelo again if you didn't want to show Earthling that he was wrong?
:inquisitive:

And don't be sure I was scum and won the game just because I posted weirdly before the lynch. Can't someone have fun with a mafioso who's about to get lynched? :beam:
Think of the frustration; getting lynched even though the townie is acting waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more suspicious than you, just because you made a silly post and then the other townie had to leave before the lynch?

Trust me, it's more satisfying to see a mafioso go down that way.

CR

Earthling

07-09-2011, 22:45

I don't see why people were missing that I was only was trying to get Luigi and Luigi alone the whole time, the rest of it is minor preferences if two townies had to die, which one was better, so I did oppose some poor lynches but I think it's obvious I was focused on Luigi, right or wrong. As was widely discussed I certainly never said it was a sure thing pizza was scum, though I did say he wasn't likely to get nightkilled if he was a townie (and, well, he didn't).

This isn't going to be over until we see the quicktopic regardless of the update, I'm thinking.

Crazed Rabbit

07-09-2011, 22:57

What was your beef with Luigi?

CR

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 02:53

Okay, that took a bit longer than expected. I'll start the writeup momentarily.

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 04:12

The scene was almost picturesque. In a rather large town square flanked by buildings, its size magnified by its emptiness, Chief of Police JuJuBee stood on an execution platform elevated about two feet off the ground, taking the sight in. In the background, the usual buildings. The power had been restored, finally, but they still seemed empty as there was nobody inside to use them. There was nobody in the Frontroom, period. These three were it. In the foreground, the emptiness. In the more immediate foreground, the final two villagers, Crazed Rabbit and Kagemusha, staring each other down. They were not only equidistant from each other but also from the edges of JuJuBee's vision. An artist would have been proud.

The song in JuJu's head changed. While still Springsteen (and early Springsteen at that), the lyrical content couldn't have been more different. The last song was about teenagers having one last good time down by Greasy Lake before the summer ended. This one spoke of being caught up in the flood. Of madness. Of blood running through the streets. JuJu tried to get it out of his head, afraid of the implications, but, like any song you did not want in your head, trying to get it out only further ingrained it.

The two men drew their weapons, Emilio/Kagemusha a large axe that looked a lot like the old Chief of Police's, and Fat Tony/Crazed Rabbit an assault rifle. For one horrible moment JuJuBee was afraid that they would each cut each other down and he would be the only person alive in this godforsaken place that was once known as the Kingdom of Peace and Love. But the two men showed more restraint than that, only continuing to hold up their weapons of choice and slowly walk towards each other.

"Nice axe," CR said, a completely flat tone to his voice. "Where'd you get it? Beirut's old office?"

"I picked it up from Angelo's old house, scum," Kage replied in an equally flat tone. "I was going to present it to the Chief of Police as it now belongs to him, but then you had to go and shove an assault rifle in my face. An assault rifle which is most definitely in violation of the Frontroom's Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which makes you a mafioso."

"And how would you know?" CR asked. "You seem to be pretty well-versed about what is and isn't illegal in these parts."

Finally, someone showed some emotion. Kage laughed. "My friend, I've been here since 2006. I'm as old as this axe here." And with CR's weapon still trained upon him, Kagemusha walked over to the baffled JuJuBee (who had drawn his own gun at this point), and returned the axe to the new Chief of Police.

"Well, what do you know?" CR said, now also showing emotion. "So have I!"

The two men walked right up to each other, but did not open fire or do anything else that would be considered hostile to each other.

Instead they embraced.

Oh, *#%!.

JuJuBee's mind was running a mile a minute, trying to process the implications - all the ominous, horrible, implications - of this latest move when he noticed another pair of eyes staring at him: a rabbit, emerging through one of the buildings. Then there was another one, coming from the side. JuJuBee noticed rabbits coming out from behind cars, staring at him through windows, standing on all sides of the Frontroom square, every single one staring at him, unblinkingly. The artist's picture from before had turned into a nightmare.

Through all of this, there was one thing that the Chief of Police did not see: Kagemusha had drawn a katana.

As the rabbits started to advance, their leader, Crazed Rabbit, started monologuing. Speaking at first seemingly to the wind, he began his tirade. "See?" he cried out. "I said I would do it again, didn't I? Even without The Truth, I am victorious! The Frontroom has been utterly depopulated by my hand, again! Where so many have failed, I have now succeeded twice! My rabbits and I shall forever build our new civilization - a perfect civilization, where we fix the town and the world, and lead man- and rabbit-kind to the stars and beyond - on the corpses of not just those who have fallen here over the past eleven days, but of all of the dead mafiosi who could not do what I have done, twice now!"

The monologuing continued as CR grew more maniacal and grandiose with his words and gestures and the rabbits continued their advance. JuJuBee, at this point paralyzed with fear, did notice that Kagemusha did not have a villainous speech of his own to make. Kagemusha did not need to make a villainous speech. He too had succeeded for a second time. What else needed to be said?

JuJuBee turned and ran, surrounded on all sides by rabbits but looking for the place where their numbers were thinnest. He got precisely three steps before he was cut down by Kagemusha's katana, the final victim of his and Crazed Rabbit's reign of terror and the first Chief of Police to die in the line of duty after ten mafia attacks.

As Kage stood stoically by the Chief of Police's corpse, the rabbits moved in for good, pouncing on JuJuBee and not letting up until nothing but his clothes and bones remained. There was not even any blood on the ground.

The two now-twice successful mafiosi walked off together as the rabbits, now in undisputed control over the former Frontroom, began their work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Survived: (2)
Kagemusha (Emilio)
Crazed Rabbit (Fat Tony)

Wrath of God:
spL1tp3r50naL1ty (Frank)

Killed:
Winston Hughes (Chickenman)
robbiecon (Giuseppe)
Visorslash (Maria)
johnhughthom (Christopher)
issaikhaan (Furio)
Death is yonder (Carlo)
Seon (Fingers)
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88 (Big George)
Earthling (Nick)
Csargo (Mickey)
Ashurnasirpal II (Salvatore)
B_Ray (Paulie)
White_eyes:D (Ralph)
Ignoramus (Luciano)
Romanic (Bobby)
Secura/a completely inoffensive name (Pete)
Believer/Greyblades (Fredo)
ArpeggiateTHIS (Giorgio)
Renata (Sonny)
Beefy187 (Richie)
Ibn-Khaldun (Bruno)
glyphz (Luigi)

Executed:
Jolt (Pedro)
Andres (Rocco)
Chaotix (Joe)
Sigurd (Claudia)
Centurion1 (Connie)
Diamondeye (Bugsy)
autolycus (Vincent)
Populus Romanus (Johnny)
Askthepizzaguy (Anne)
Captain Blackadder (Bertha)
TheLastDays (Angelo)

Player list:
Romanic
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Visorslash
Beefy187
Greyblades
Renata
Csargo
Populus Romanus
B_Ray
White_eyes:D
Jolt
Captain Blackadder
Seon
glyphz
Ibn-Khaldun
Death is yonder
Askthepizzaguy
Diamondeye
TheLastDays
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
ArpeggiateTHIS
ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88
Winston Hughes
Kagemusha
issaikhaan
a completely inoffensive name
autolycus
robbiecon
Earthling
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ashurnasirpal II
Sigurd
johnhughthom
Andres

Result:

TOTAL MAFIA VICTORY :smoking:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An enormous congratulations to Crazed Rabbit and Kagemusha, who not only won Mafia for the second time as Mafia, but did so in true style, achieving the first ever Total Mafia Victory not just in the Mafia series, but in any of my games I've ever hosted. Wow!

And with this, Mafia X draws to a close. There are no fake endings, no writeups yet to be revealed. The postgame starts now. My commentary will be up in a few days, but in the meantime you can start talking about your experiences with the game and the anonymous accounts. Thanks for playing, everybody! :bow:

Centurion1

07-10-2011, 04:12

bam i told the town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 04:18

glyphz

07-10-2011, 04:19

Total humiliation!
:bigcry:

...
......
.........

Congrats to CrazedRabbit & Kagemusha:balloon2:

edit: Damn, so it actually was not random selection. Thought it was just a coincidence that both of CR & Kage were still alive after N8. lol

Earthling

07-10-2011, 04:24

Hmm, earlier when I thought the scum were someone else I was going to remember to ask if the roles had been randomized but hadn't thought of it right at the end here, thanks for sharing I guess. That's still extremely disappointing in my opinion. Granted it's not just this game, there have been several others in short succession, but I'm enormously sick of that lately. Roles should be randomized and it detracts from the experience for everyone if not. It's been really lopsided and unsporting in all the recent games where invariably only the town gets a bunch of inactive or inexperienced players when the "good roles" are handpicked out for others. On top of that, then, with the town already at a disadvantage from the start, the mafia can purposefully kill off all the active townies as of course they have the kills to do it, leaving even fewer active people left.

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 04:29

I respect your opinion, and please know that in all of the 17+ games I've hosted here over the years, I have never once purposely assigned roles to anybody before this game, and never will again. This was a special occasion, as mentioned above. It's the 5-year anniversary of something I thought would die after a game or two, I'm allowed to be a bit indulgent. :laugh4:

Crazed Rabbit

07-10-2011, 04:32

A couple of immediate issues because I know people are going to ask:

No, the selections for the mafia were not random, for the first time ever. This was an anniversary game, celebrating the Gameroom's past and its future, and I wanted to bring the two together by picking the two winners as Mafia together for the most recent installment in the series. Let me reiterate exactly what they did, both now and in the past: they survived as mafia twice. To put that in perspective, of the other 16 people to play as mafiosi over the course of the series, nobody has survived once.

For this, the two of them deserve special recognition. I was going to wait until the commentary was up before posting this, but decided not to in the spur of the moment. And so, courtesy of Sigurd, for however you wish to use it:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/MafiaeternalChampion2.png

Congratulations gentlemen, you've more than earned it. :bow:

Awesome! Thanks Sigurd!

*ahem*

Thanks to Kagemusha and GeneralHankerchief - you couldn't ask for a better mafia partner or a better host. It was loads of fun to play, especially the last round. Sorry TheLastDays, you never had a chance. :evil:

And then, of course, the town, especially those who so loudly proclaimed my innocence. :beam: Also thanks for not lynching me after the two people who most wanted me lynched got whacked.

CR

PS - one final thing. I still think my vote on Richie which started the suspicion on me was a townie move; it's what I would've done if I really was a townie. :shrug:

Earthling

07-10-2011, 04:33

There was nothing wrong at all with the anonymous accounts though. I said that before when some people thought it had been an issue and I'll stress that again, it really worked very well.

glyphz

07-10-2011, 04:38

Awesome! Thanks Sigurd!

*ahem*

Thanks to Kagemusha and GeneralHankerchief - you couldn't ask for a better mafia partner or a better host. It was loads of fun to play, especially the last round. Sorry TheLastDays, you never had a chance. :evil:

And then, of course, the town, especially those who so loudly proclaimed my innocence. :beam: Also thanks for not lynching me after the two people who most wanted me lynched got whacked.

CR

PS - one final thing. I still think my vote on Richie which started the suspicion on me was a townie move; it's what I would've done if I really was a townie. :shrug:Should have lynched you for blatantly breaking the 3-way tie.
Looking back, us, town, have been unbelievably lenient to let you live for doing that, as well, as treating Kage the same way for still being alive despite flirting w/ a WOG

shoulda, woulda, coulda...

Before I forget, thank you GH for hosting this game!

Romanic

07-10-2011, 05:06

:laugh4: We've been outplayed. Looking back at the voting history, we've voted for the mafia only a few times, and were close to lynch Fat Tony only once. We deserved to lose. AFAIK only Renata made a good case on one of them (Fat Tony), when we still had chances to win, but no one of listened to her. Meh.

Congrats to Kage and CR for beating us and both remaining alive. :bow:

Thanks for the game GH, liked the writeups and how I died. :smug2:

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 05:17

GH, I hate you :wink:

Ah well at least my faith in the intellect of CR and Kage. No one could have genuinely believed that I was Mafia after that last round :P

Congrats to the two of you. Very well played!

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 05:19

GH, I hate you :wink:

Not my fault. :tongue: CR and Kage had the option of dragging things out or killing everybody left in a bloodbath on N11. They chose the former.

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 05:22

Ah doesn't matter, I hate you all anyway :P

And I hope this is understood in jest ;)

Askthepizzaguy

07-10-2011, 06:00

:beam: That's an awesome ending. Truly entertaining.

Now I don't feel so bad, we were willing to let Emilio go and never punish him for lurking. So it didn't matter that we also let the slippery Rabbit escape justice on a few occasions.

Very well played. Town was soundly beaten that time.

Crazed Rabbit

07-10-2011, 06:03

ATPG, I liked your list of the last six people alive where you had me and Kage as the least two suspicious. ~;p

CR

Askthepizzaguy

07-10-2011, 06:10

ATPG, I liked your list of the last six people alive where you had me and Kage as the least two suspicious. ~;p

CR

I did really lousy this time. In fairness to me though, they are making me work what are essentially 60 hour weeks, by moving my days off to the opposite ends of sequential weeks and making me work past my scheduled time, and my scheduled time was already at 10-11 hours per day. I didn't do any sort of serious analysis this game, just superficial stuff.

I really was just going to bandwagon whoever Renata or TLD chose to vote for, because I really did not have the time. I warned them of that going into the last few rounds. I trusted their analysis more than my own at the end. Renata was right about CR, and TLD was right on Emilio, albeit too late to matter.

No joke, you guys did a phenomenal job and I am not ashamed to say you pwned me and everyone else quite properly and thoroughly. Well done, congratulations, and thank you for putting on such a crowd-pleasing performance.

Kage the lurker, grrr, I'll never let you get away with that again, though. Ask Sigurd. I still hold a grudge from the Chicago Soiree.

NEVER FORGET.

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 06:13

I'm going to put this in the commentary, but I agree with a few of your sentiments that Day 9 (when Pizza/Anne got lynched) was the critical round for everyone. In games past it seemed like everything would start to fall apart for the bad guys; it was the start of the endgame, there was a serious effort to lynch one of the two mafiosi, and the round was extended, which more often than not means bad news for the mafia. But CR managed to escape and the town just didn't have enough gas left in the tank on Day 10.

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 06:24

As a comment on the anonymous accounts: I think they add an interesting flavour to the game and once a certain point was reached the activity was high and everyone was involved.

I also think this wouldn't have been possible without the anonymous accounts. I guess CR and Kage would have been lynched at some point by default ;)

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 06:34

I also think this wouldn't have been possible without the anonymous accounts. I guess CR and Kage would have been lynched at some point by default ;)

Maybe not. As you'll see in the commentary, both of them (Kage in particular) have a track record of doing amazingly well in this series. Part of it might have to do with the fact that this is what gave Kagemusha's Curse its name after all. :laugh4:

But that said, if it wasn't for the anonymous accounts, I would at the very least have thought twice before giving those two the role. The town would've been too tempted to metagame (even more so than usual) in the endgame as opposed to what I would have wanted them to do, which is vote strictly based off of in-thread behavior.

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 06:43

But that said, if it wasn't for the anonymous accounts, I would at the very least have thought twice before giving those two the role. The town would've been too tempted to metagame (even more so than usual) in the endgame as opposed to what I would have wanted them to do, which is vote strictly based off of in-thread behavior.

Yep and it worked very well I think. It wasn't until the last round (where it didn't count anymore, did it? ~:pissed: ) that metagaming was a big deal. Only then people were going "Kage never lurked away as scum like this, it can't be Emilio" and such things... So the anonymous accounts did their job almost as well as the Mafia I'd say, so congrats to them too :yes:

Kagemusha

07-10-2011, 09:09

Thank you CR and GH and thank you town! My first mafia victory and my first mafia game was the first one from this series and getting another, this time a total one with none other then CR, this is a honour and priviledge. My apologies for those who feel that my tactics were underhanded, but there were three folded reasons for those tactics.First it was my summer vacation, second i wanted to break out from role as very active mafioso trying to control the game and last this is a reminder to everyone that lurker can really be a deadly adversary. I will comment further when the commentary is out. Again thank you all.This was awesome!:bow:

Askthepizzaguy

07-10-2011, 09:12

You do realize one lurker victory as mafia is worth 10 lurker deaths as townie? Don't complain when it happens, you've earned it now, buddy. :beam:

Kagemusha

07-10-2011, 09:23

You do realize one lurker victory as mafia is worth 10 lurker deaths as townie? Don't complain when it happens, you've earned it now, buddy. :beam:

Dont worry.Im not complaining the slightest.This might have been the sweetest mafia victory ive had.:2thumbsup:

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 09:24

Don't make me comment on the lurking :P

Also, I'm 4/5 now, losing :2thumbsup:

I think next time I draw Mafia I should announce it and everyone should let me win :clown:

Askthepizzaguy

07-10-2011, 09:26

Some of the best times you'll ever have is knowing the backlash you're about to experience, and realizing it's not even going to bother you because you'll likely be townie when it happens, so you'll get another laugh out of it, and even if it makes you lose as mafia you still have this epic winnage under your belt.

It's like winning the super bowl. Sure, every team will be gunning for you next year, but it doesn't matter, because you've got the ring.

Beefy187

07-10-2011, 09:46

Fat Tony was possible but unlikely and Emilio was completely unexpected.
Then I found out that its CR and Kage. All mystery is solved.

To the very best of the gameroom :bow:

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 09:49

I will comment further when the commentary is out. Again thank you all.This was awesome!:bow:

Please don't wait for the commentary to be out to offer further comments, I plan on taking at least two full days off from writing anything for this site before cracking down.

(I fully expect it to break my personal record for post length, set by my Godfather 3 commentary, which is saying something. :sweatdrop:)

TheLastDays

07-10-2011, 09:57

Please don't wait for the commentary to be out to offer further comments, I plan on taking at least two full days off from writing anything for this site before cracking down.

(I fully expect it to break my personal record for post length, set by my Godfather 3 commentary, which is saying something. :sweatdrop:)

I think it is also time to congratulare GH for a succesful start of the Anniversary celebrations. It was an epic game with an epic ending, so thanks and very well done! :bow:

[MAFIA] Bugsy

07-10-2011, 10:03

I think it is also time to congratulare GH for a succesful start of the Anniversary celebrations. It was an epic game with an epic ending, so thanks and very well done! :bow:

This! Thanks to GH for a fantastic game, with a fantastic ending (even if it broke my streak!), and congratulations to our mafia couple, they deserve it for a game well played :beam:

Will our Anonymous Accounts be "distangled" from our original accounts now? I can still change back and forth at will :curtain:

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 10:08

Bugsy;2053340867']Will our Anonymous Accounts be "distangled" from our original accounts now? I can still change back and forth at will :curtain:

I'll let the Tech Admins know (if they haven't been reading this thread already) after I get some sleep.

johnhughthom

07-10-2011, 10:17

Wow, just wow. I've always thought these games are more random than people let on, but there are a few people out there that are genuine masters, you two are top of the tree. Well player Crazed Rabbit and Kagemusha. :bow:

Oh, and thanks for the game GH. Awesome as ever.

Renata

07-10-2011, 12:15

Meh. Not a fan of the lurking, Kage, sorry.

I did say to ATPG on MSN at one point that whoever you were, you were scum, since there no sign among those I hadn't identified (maybe 7 or 8 left at that point) of the kind of playing you did in The Revengening. But I just can't be bothered to try to play against someone who missed half the game, there's no fun to it. And since that applies to just about everybody? :shrug: I think you would probably have won even if CR had been lynched the second-to-last day as I wanted (and couldn't manage to fight for given personal issues).

Congrats regardless, and wholeheartedly to Crazed Rabbit ... at least I got one. :)

I couldn't really say it then, but when Vincent turned up to be Autolycus my heart sank (although I laughed at the same time), because I always seem to find him to be the most scummy player in the game, whether he's actually scum or not. Apparently that holds true even without his name attached.

Visor

07-10-2011, 12:34

I have a hard time seeing Auto as scum. I don't know why, I just do....

While it sucked completely to be nightkilled on night 1 along with JHT, it was a good game nonetheless. Thanks for hosting GH.

Askthepizzaguy

07-10-2011, 18:13

Quicktopic?

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 18:18

Don't think there was one. I was included in some of the PMs, especially closer to the endgame, but that was it.

Kagemusha

07-10-2011, 18:28

No there was no QT. We used pm and steam in our communications with CR.If you have any questions concerning anything.Il do my best to answer those.:bow:

Crazed Rabbit

07-10-2011, 19:13

Our kill strategy was very simple; for almost the whole game, until he killed Giorgio, Kage killed people randomly. For my first several kills I killed whoever voted last before the day round ended. Watching townies try to make sense of random killings was fun. No one caught on to my plan, though. :sad:

We didn't really have a set strategy on how to work together, no plans on how to vote and steer conversation besides the very general "Don't let either of us get lynched".

Our first steam chat, the night we decide to kill Sonny and Richie (I had changed my steam name to Wild Tennessee, worrying that people might get suspicious if they saw CR and Kage talking. Later I realized they probably couldn't and changing my name might have been a bigger signal) . To think we were worried that I would get heat for whacking my two biggest opponents! :2thumbsup:

Kage: Good morning :)
Mild Tennessee: And good evening to you :)
Kage: damn one should have a vacation adapting back from vacation :P I feel like a zombie after 3 hours of sleep
Mild Tennessee: we had a nice three day weekend in the states because of the fourth of july
Kage: yep, happy late independency day. My summer vacation ended on monday and i have bit hard time getting back to my normal schedule, it hard to get up at 5:30 am when you get down at 2 am. I guess we arent getting any younger
Mild Tennessee: nope, that aint much sleep
Kage: so you arent sure about Richie?
Kage: Whom are you thinking in his place?
Mild Tennessee: I'm wary, but it's probably the best way forward
Mild Tennessee: Truth be told, I'm most worried about Sonny. He's going to be confirmed innocent and want me dead, dead, dead.
Kage: I think you are going to get tons of heat in any case. The best we can do is to get rid of the actual voters and then have some other options
Mild Tennessee: That's probably right
Kage: Leaving Sonny /renata alive to become a rallying point might turn out to be disastrous. We only need to win the next round and we have pulled this off twice ;)
Kage: with the voting history of the others.I am quite sure that the votes will be spread and if the mafia votes are the only coordinated votes, while people go after their own targets.I thiink it is the best chance we have
Mild Tennessee: I agree. Let's kill Richie and Sonny.
Kage: Ok :)
Kage: Il go make some coffee and think of how to kill my target. Do yuo want to waste Sonny as he is your nemesis? :P
Mild Tennessee: Might as well :D
Kage: why not while we are at it ;)
Crazed Rabbit: awesome
Kage: Let us just hope this will play out, thank God we have white_eyes and Earthling in the crowd disagreeing about anything pizza will say
Crazed Rabbit: heehee they're great
Kage: Im just worried what pizza might cook, we are too close, but a good thing is that we are very hard to trace to each other. Im my prediction goes right.You will have to defend yourself like the last day phase and i go completely unnoticed. It would be fun to show people that lurkers are really something to take in count in these games, its totally different how i usually have played
Crazed Rabbit: Last day round I waited and hoped the heat would turn up on somebody else. This time I'm going to come out and at Angelo early on.
Kage: strange steam went offline there for a bit
Crazed Rabbit: I'll just repeat this then;
Crazed Rabbit: Last day round I waited and hoped the heat would turn up on somebody else. This time I'm going to come out and at Angelo early on.
Kage: I think thats a solid strategy
Kage: Il send a pm to GH now.I have to get out and leave for work in about 20
Crazed Rabbit: Ok, have a good day at work. I'll go to sleep in ~2 hours and check back in real quick in about 11 hours.
Kage: Ok, remember to send your kill ;)
Kage: ok we cant screw it up anymore. Mosquitos are going to take care of Richie
Kage: Have a good night.Im sure we have a quite interesting day phase coming our way! :)

The second time we chatted on steam, as the clock ticked down and we won the game with the lynch of Bertha. I cut out boring bits with me complaining about being sick and my injured-from-soccer-ankle. GH turns up at the end too!

Kage: hi :)
Crazed Rabbit: hey
Crazed Rabbit: so i htink we're good for today :D
Kage: how much until its deadline?
Crazed Rabbit: 36 minutes
Kage: :)
Crazed Rabbit: man, killing sonny and richie worked excellently
Kage: cant believe that we are pulling this through like this :)
Kage: so far we are the only two ever won a GH game and now we are doing it twice :P
Kage: I have grand total of 1 votes in this game :P
Crazed Rabbit: *if* we get thorugh this round we'll be the first ever to make it through to the end with both mafia alive
Kage: yep, we are basically setting all the records a new
Kage: Im thinking should i even vote :P
Crazed Rabbit: just to avoid the WoG :D
Kage: I guess il do that in lets say 15 minutes :P
Kage: the random killing got them completely,+ you played amazing the last round.With the last well thought kills, we are not even being considered suspects :)
Kage: I guess il just have to start believeing that we are pulling this off
Crazed Rabbit: i was really worried last day round when I saw three votes already on me. Thought I was dead.
Kage: You defended yourself in style
Kage: if you convince pizza like that, it cant be a bad play ;)
Crazed Rabbit: heeheehee
Crazed Rabbit: indeed
Kage: Its amazing how he sayd that your tactics are most townie like and in the same posts he says that my strategy would be perfect for mafia, still he thinks im completely harmless :P
Kage: I know many wont like my strategy, but after this they should think again about lurkers :P
Kage: most mafia are so enthusiastic that they just cant keep their mouths shut
Crazed Rabbit: yup
Kage: ok, im going to vote for Bertha also. Lets see if i get praise from that or another post saying bloody lurker :p
Kage: i guess everyone else is voting bertha except her :P
Kage: that wagon will not be turned in 30 minutes
Crazed Rabbit: no way
Kage: so it is 20 minutes now?
Crazed Rabbit: yup
Kage: Pizza will be furious when he will read the thread :P
Kage: i left a tip in that post :P
Kage: before this game we chatted on MSN and he told me that he would easily regognice me because i tend to write lot of typos in english
Kage: look at my post :P
Crazed Rabbit: ah, i see
Crazed Rabbit: very nice
Kage: so far ive written perfect english, couldnt resist one typo on purpose for our dear ATPG :P
Kage: I think that will create some drama for "next day phase" ;)
Kage: While in reality they have already lost in 17 minutes
Kage: I just hope ATPG will pick that typo up and start drumming for my lynch after the coming night
***
Kage: About the game.Its bloody 7 minutes :P
Kage: Then we have just walked away with this!
Crazed Rabbit: when the game began I was tempted to post, as Crazed Rabbit, that I was mafia
Kage: that would have been a tricky move
Kage: but would have altered the nature of the game a lot
Kage: it would have been all about trying to find who CR is
Kage: 4 MINUTES
Kage: Im going to ahve a smoke.I cant wait
Kage: 1 MINUTE
Crazed Rabbit: sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
Crazed Rabbit: we have done it
Kage: !!!!!!
Kage: Damn!
Crazed Rabbit: We are un unstoppable mafia team
Crazed Rabbit: un=an*
Kage: God i just cant believe it! Congrats CR i could not think a better guy to tema up to butcher the town! :)
Kage: cant
Kage: no others not even once, but we twice, with total mafia victory both mafia alive!
Crazed Rabbit: Congrats Kagemusha! a truly excellent choice in kills
Kage: Yeeeshh!
Kage: Ok, now we have to start thinking of good stuff for the coming night
Crazed Rabbit: for my kill, it's going to be rabbits
Crazed Rabbit: hordes and hordes of rabbits
Crazed Rabbit: rabbits on buildings
Crazed Rabbit: rabbits in cars
Crazed Rabbit: rabbits in the grass, behind the bushes, in the trees
Crazed Rabbit: all looking, watching
Crazed Rabbit: waiting
Crazed Rabbit: killing
Kage: Im going to be an lumberjack talking about Beirut to my target. I will only reveal myself as Kage at the end of the last "day"
Kage: ive killed with trees, organic food, ants, mosquitos and no one has even mentioned Beirut :P
Crazed Rabbit: so are we going to have day lynch phase after this?
Kage: Yes i think so, GH asked us a bit a go, if we would like to drag things up
Kage: as the town cant know that two mafia are alive
Kage: so normally we would just have one more day after this night
Crazed Rabbit: i was wondering if he meant, drag things out thourgh the night phase
Crazed Rabbit: ah okay
Crazed Rabbit: another day phase sounds fun
Crazed Rabbit: who to leave alive?
Kage: to me too also
Kage: what you think?
Crazed Rabbit: we should toy with someone
Crazed Rabbit: who would be the most fun?
Kage: I think the best drama would come up if we would leave Angelo and Bruno alive
Kage: sorry
Kage: only one
Crazed Rabbit: yeah :(
Kage: so maybe angelo, he really has put some effort into this
Crazed Rabbit: i think that's a good choice as well
Kage: Can i kill Bruno?
Crazed Rabbit: sure
Kage: You got Renata/ Vinnie last night :P
Crazed Rabbit: that leaves me luigi
Kage: Think something very good, maybe you ought to fool them once more also and not yet use rabbits :P
Crazed Rabbit: hmm
Kage: I think we can have rabbits and katana´s in the final execution :P
Crazed Rabbit: save the rabbits for the grand finale?
Kage: yup ;)
Crazed Rabbit: maybe rabbits WITH katanas
Kage: Maybe :P
Kage: im going to be a lumberjack serial killer guy who admires Beirut over everything and complains to his victim about Jujubee and his too soft meausres as chief of police :P
Kage: measures
Crazed Rabbit: okay, with luigi I'm going to do another kill that destroy's JuJu's Judy Garland shrine
Kage: lol
Kage: damn we really won. It was my first mafia game ever when i won this the first time, what an anniversary :p
Kage: Its bit hard to believe still, i also talked with GH and it seems we are the only two that have played in all of these
Crazed Rabbit: wow
Crazed Rabbit: i did not know that
Kage: i didnt either :P
Kage: its like a faith, or is it fate?
Kage: i always get mixed up with those two words
Kage: destiny might be a better word
Crazed Rabbit: fate is what you mean probably
Crazed Rabbit: fate means something like destiny - ie I was fated to be doing such and such
Crazed Rabbit: faith is belief, like religion
Kage: yep, thats it
Kage: I was surprised yesterday when i talked with GH, he has already apparently wrote over 1000 words of commentary, when i was feeling it sorry because i played so low key
Crazed Rabbit: argh i wish GH would get here and post in the thread that the voting is over
Kage: me too
Kage: If you look how calm the gameroom and the thread is, it seems the town doesnt have a vaguest idea that this game is over :P
Kage: They just think this wasa lul round after Pizza got lynched
Kage: GH is online
Your chat with Kage is now a multi-user chat.
GeneralHankerchief entered chat.
Kage: Hi GH!!!!:)
Crazed Rabbit: hi
GeneralHankerchief: morning everybody
Kage: so when are we going to read the magic words?
GeneralHankerchief: as soon as I read the thread and catch up with it
GeneralHankerchief: should be a couple of minutes
Kage: ok
GeneralHankerchief: okay good Kage, you voted
GeneralHankerchief: otherwise you would have been WOG-eligible for next round and there would have been a miniscule chance that the town still could have won
Kage: :P
GeneralHankerchief: and congrats gentlemen.
Kage: :)
Crazed Rabbit: :D
Kage: thank you very much!
Crazed Rabbit: Thanks GH
Crazed Rabbit: ten games of mafia
Kage: thanks for each and every of those
Kage: GH concerning the next day , i left a typo for pizza to see in that last post of mine, so we might get some action :P
GeneralHankerchief: heh
Kage: before the game we talked on MSN and pizza sayd that he would spot me from my typo´s, lets see now if he picks it up ;)
GeneralHankerchief: so I'm assuming you want to drag it out?
Kage: But ofcourse
Kage: We already talked with CR whom to kill the coming night and who will live for the last round
Kage: Unless you want to just end the game?
GeneralHankerchief: I'm trying to figure out the exact numbers
GeneralHankerchief: 6 left now, 5 with bertha's lynch, 3 with the two kills tomorrow, you two after the lynch
Kage: basically we have won, but the town cant know it. the end could come to next days execution scene :P
GeneralHankerchief: there won't be any townies for you to kill come the final night 12, but as it is a total mafia victory you have earned the right to take out the chief of police himself on night 12, so we could do it that way I suppose
Kage: or at the end of the day, if there were only one mafia left, the town would have one last change the next day
Kage: no else knows that after this night there will be 2 mafia and 1 town, i guess they think it will be 2 town and 1 mafia
GeneralHankerchief: yeah
Kage: so if pizza will pick up that glue, they could hope i am the last mafia ;)
GeneralHankerchief: also, I have to ask:
GeneralHankerchief: katana kills for this upcoming round or your coup de grace against the chief of police?
Kage: We talked with CR and we would like to leave the katanas and the rabbits to the end :P
Crazed Rabbit: maybe at the end of tomorrow's lynch phase
Kage: yep
GeneralHankerchief: fair enough
Crazed Rabbit: so instead of this night and the next night, we end it all after tomorow's day phase
GeneralHankerchief: alright, I think I can swing it that way
GeneralHankerchief: I usually finish things off after one last night phase
GeneralHankerchief: but I've written too damn much for this game alredy anyway :P
Kage: i thought that this coming night.I will be a lumberjack serial killer guy who adores Beirut and complains about JuJuBee and his too soft meaures as chief of police :P
Kage: I would kill Bruno
GeneralHankerchief: alright, PM me your choices though
Kage: CR also has his thing thought up
GeneralHankerchief: have to make it "official"
Kage: ok ;)
Kage: sent you the kill

CR

Kagemusha

07-10-2011, 19:27

Thanks for posting those chat logs, CR. :bow:To be honest, before the round when the heat started piling on CR.We did not have any need to over do anything and leave traces of cooperation in the thread.

White_eyes:D

07-10-2011, 22:16

I can't believe Kage was bypassed as a lynch, by lurkering too heavily.:laugh4:

Good one CR and Kage, you certainly won this one and thanks GH for hosting.:bow:

Andres

07-10-2011, 22:45

Congrats Kage and CR. And thanks for hosting, GH.

:bow:

TinCow

07-10-2011, 23:11

I'll let the Tech Admins know (if they haven't been reading this thread already) after I get some sleep.

All anonymous accounts have been unlinked. Password changes and PM purges will take a bit longer.

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 23:18

TinCow

07-10-2011, 23:21

I don't think the PM purges should be that bad, at least. Going back through my "Sent Items" folder I didn't send any PMs to the anonymous accounts, and I don't really see a reason for them to PM each other, as this was a vanilla game.

Already cleared them. There were only two accounts with PMs. Is there another anonymous game scheduled soon? (Read: Can I be lazy and not do the password resetting until later this week?)

GeneralHankerchief

07-10-2011, 23:25

Not in the near future, unless a random small or mini game host wants to use them soon. None of them next three Anniversary games are going to use them.

Askthepizzaguy

07-11-2011, 07:14

Already cleared them. There were only two accounts with PMs. Is there another anonymous game scheduled soon? (Read: Can I be lazy and not do the password resetting until later this week?)

LOL!!! Me and renata were the only ones who PM'ed each other.

Sonny and Anne, truly a role-reversal romance for the ages.

Death is yonder

07-11-2011, 08:45

Didn't participate in thread much post-death, being busy and all, but it was great fun reading through the write ups and watching the rounds develop!

Thanks for the game GH :bow: And congrats to our mafia Kage and CR for pulling out a masterful victory :yes:

GeneralHankerchief

07-14-2011, 11:20

Commentary progress: Slow going. I've been struck by the double whammy of a) being ill the past couple of days, and b) getting both a PS3 and a certain 1,000 page fantasy novel also in the past couple of days. Hopefully I'll get a big chunk of it done during the upcoming weekend.

Diamondeye

07-14-2011, 15:50

GeneralHankerchief

07-14-2011, 18:57

Yes, so you can understand my delay. :laugh4:

Diamondeye

07-14-2011, 19:26

Yes, so you can understand my delay. :laugh4:

Indeed. I read all four Song of Ice and Fire in succession. Not much happened about then :tongue:

TinCow

07-14-2011, 20:08

Diamondeye

07-14-2011, 20:44

Heh, I am under strict orders to read ADWD as fast as humanly possible, as my wife is waiting to read it after me. I do not have permission to do anything in my non-work hours except read and sleep. Since I've been waiting six :daisy: years for this thing, I'd probably be doing that anyway...

Is it out? Where does one get it?

I live in Denmark things never get here on a reasonable schedule! I had to pick up aGoT on a trip to New York to get into it. Then, luckily, the British Amazon had the three next. But I haven't read aDwD yet!

Sorry for cluttering the thread; If anyone has a reply to this, perhaps take it to the public message on my profile or something? :beam: thanks! :bow:

johnhughthom

07-14-2011, 20:47

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0002247399/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d6_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1PN99R6B241HJ8F262Y8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=247518427&pf_rd_i=468294

GeneralHankerchief

07-14-2011, 20:48

It's out in the US and UK, according to Wiki. No word on the rest of the Continent (at least, not at the top little box where I can see, and I'm not going farther down into the entry because I'm too afraid of spoilers). I guess just ordering it online would be your best bet.

-edit- yup, beaten to the punch.

Diamondeye

07-14-2011, 21:03

Hmmm, it's hardcover, not in the same style as the four others I have.

Who cares? I must have it :laugh4:

TinCow

07-14-2011, 21:13

I actually was waiting at the doors of the bookstore at 8am to pick up a copy as soon as they opened on Tuesday. The employees looked at me oddly when I walked over and picked up three copies (two were for lazy co-workers who are also fans).

GeneralHankerchief

07-18-2011, 11:22

Okay, I've finished reading Dance, so hopefully my pace is going to pick up a bit. :sweatdrop:

GeneralHankerchief

07-20-2011, 13:00

While we wait for the commentary, here's my usual postgame "state of the Gameroom" essay for you to chew on. I tried to keep this one relatively short, clocking in at a bit under 2,000 words (the commentary is already well past that). This one has to do with the anonymous accounts and the metagame.

Hope you enjoy, and thanks for indulging me. :yes:

The anonymous accounts were the brainchild of Sigurd, who had been toying with the idea back when he was still a Gameroom moderator some months back. Checking back through my PMs, he initially raised the issue in August of 2010 with the intention of basically, killing off the metagame (the exact definition of which I’ll get to later on). issaikhaan and I, the other two moderators, agreed with the idea’s premise, as we’d all been victims of online typecasting of a sort. Over the next several months, the idea crawled along, with Sigurd liaising with Tosa on how to properly set something like this up.

Things on the anonymous account front really picked up during the late winter/early spring of this year thanks to two separate events: First, we finalized the plans for the upcoming Gameroom Anniversary celebration over the summer and decided that then would be an excellent time to roll out the idea, which would be something very new and (we thought) the players would enjoy. Second was the forum staff restructuring in the aftermath of Tosa’s passing. Sigurd was now a Tech Admin, with access to a lot more of the nuts and bolts that made the forum work and was thus a lot more able to bring the anonymous accounts scheme to fruition. In addition, he was aided by another Tech Admin in TinCow, who had spent time in the Gameroom and was able to help out with the implementation. On the eve of the Anniversary, everything was in place.

Deciding that a test run before the real thing happened was probably for the best, khaan set up a mini game entitled “The Copa Clash” in which for the very first time the players would be posting under anonymous identities. The idea was that the Tech Admins provided the game host, in this case khaan, with a spreadsheet detailing the login information of all of the anonymous accounts, which the host would then send out one-by-one to players along with their role information. The slightly annoying catch, of course, was that the players would have to log out of their usual accounts and into their anonymous accounts in order to post in the thread, and then reverse the process. I was one of the seven players, anxiously seeing how the game would turn out.

All in all, things went okay. There were no technical issues, which was a big relief, and the game ended in a last-minute townie victory. However, in what was a harbinger of things to come in Mafia X, posting activity dropped sharply from the usual levels. Most of the time players would log in, lodge a vote, and that would be it for the round until it came time to vote again. I was a bit uneasy about this, but chalked it up to it only being a mini game (seven total players) and a vanilla one to boot. What else could you say, really?

In Mafia X, there was plenty of reason for optimism. First, it was a much larger game anyway, even without the distinctions of it being the start of the summer-long Anniversary celebration and it being the tenth game in a – and I say this as a fact, not to brag – very popular and well-loved series. Second, I made the sign-ups public, so you actually knew who was playing, unlike Copa, where the players truly went in blind. Third, I figured that if all else failed, the tightness of the endgame, which is traditionally what has made my games memorable, would serve to crank up activity to its usual levels.

So, as I sent out the 36 information PMs, I was closely observing post-count levels (a selfish part of me wanted another 1,000-post game, which, while not meaning as much as it used to, would be my seventh), but also what the anonymous accounts’ impact would be on the metagame.

The metagame in the context of the Gameroom is difficult to define, but my best shot at it is as follows: allowing your past experiences and knowledge of other players to influence your own play during a particular game. In a truly dispassionate game whatsoever, without any metagame, the players make decisions purely on their experiences and motives for that particular game and nothing else. Obviously after five years and counting of Mafia here on the .Org, this has never happened once, not even in Mafia I (because a) nobody knew what the *#%! they were doing in that game anyway, and b) a lot of decisions were made based on experiences in other parts of the forum). Now, without the easy option of voting for Player X just because they were Player X was no longer available. The players would have to do a lot more legwork in order to achieve the same results as before.

From my observations, the reduction (not elimination, as described later) of the metagame by the anonymous accounts swayed the game in a few ways. First, and perhaps least importantly, the foolish, jokey reasons for voting people in the early rounds (“GH used a weird smiley, lynch him!”) were gone. However, they were replaced by foolish, jokey reasons for voting people in the early rounds based off their anonymous account names (“Vote: [for] Pedro” applies here), so we’ll call this one a wash. Second, voters were now unable to equate in-thread behavior with a particular source, so there was no looking for deviations in usual behavior. You could no longer rely on discrepancies like a usual lurker all of a sudden becoming quite active or a notoriously jumpy player suddenly acting a lot more calculating and cerebral. This meant the players had a lot less to rely on, even if it was subverted in some instances when players were able to figure out who was behind their masks. Third, it saved the mafia team a ton of speculation and misery.

As any mafioso alumnus from a vanilla game will tell you, the endgame is always the hardest part of the task. If you make one mistake – say the wrong thing, vote the wrong person, kill off the wrong people – you’re sunk. During the night phase you agonize over your choices, essentially trying to craft a credible narrative that the remaining townies will buy into. As the numbers continue to sink, this becomes nearly impossible to do and I will submit is the main reason why the mafiosi have such a poor survival rate in my games. A big part of the reason for this is the metagame. Say, for a minute, you’re a mafioso (we’ll say you’re already working alone and your partner has been lynched) and you’re doing two nightkills that reduce the town’s numbers from five to three. Your choices are Player A, who’s been a lurker, Player B, who’s been extremely verbose but wrong a lot of the time, Player C, who’s been lynchbait for a few rounds now, Player D, who is targeting you as the lynch for this upcoming round, and Player E, who was the deciding vote on your partner the last round. Sound difficult? That’s the anonymous account, non-metagame version. Now, in the metagame version, add names, posting styles, and histories to all of the players. Suddenly, Player C is a noted veteran who is renowned for slipping out of a sure lynch. Suddenly, Player E has a history of disagreement with Player B and isn’t apt to go along with Player B’s (probably incorrect) lynch choice. Suddenly, Player A is the type to get mad at being offed so late in the game and come out of nowhere with a ridiculously cogent argument against you. Suddenly, Player D is not just coming after you, but is a noted endgame specialist and has saved the town’s butt in similar situations in the past. Suddenly, you just had an experience with Player B in a recent game that could possibly connect you to him if you were to nightkill Player B now. So who do you kill? Picking one target is difficult enough, yet alone two. If your head is spinning right now from all of this, this means I have done my job in describing just how much the metagame can ruin a mafioso’s life.

All of this was more or less nonexistent for CR and Kage this game. They had far less to worry about, while the town’s usual methods of finding reasons to vote for people were significantly reduced. In addition, I think that a lot of people were trying not to be “discovered” for who they really were, which meant brevity was the order of the day for a while. Brevity, of course, being the diligent townie’s worst enemy, since when it comes time to make serious votes, there is far less information to go off of.

(Additionally, I think that trying to hide one’s identity in this game was ultimately meaningless, for two reasons. First of all, just because people now know who you are does not affect your chance of being a mafioso in the slightest. Second of all, it brings the metagame – detrimental to the mafia, as described above – back into play.)

The ultimate result, as we all know, was a Total Mafia Victory for the old-timers, CR and Kage. I’ll detail exactly why I think this was the case in my upcoming commentary, but this essay will conclude by looking at the larger implications. In other words, what have we learned?

Number one, the town has some catching up to do. Vanilla games, especially when uncommon, can serve to expose the player base’s inability to truly find mafiosi without the crutch of detectives, protections, information in the writeup, networks, inter-villain crossfire, pure luck, etc. Now, this had of course been the case for all of my previous vanilla games as well, with the town conducting itself admirably. However, this time I removed a second crutch: the crutch of the metagame, and the town fell on its face. This tells me that in the future, people are going to have to do more/better in-thread detective work if they want to catch the mafia on their own.

Number two, the anonymous accounts prove a long-standing maxim that the more information that is generated (usually), the better it is for the town. Despite tying the record for game length, with a couple of tiebreaker rounds thrown in there, Mafia X came in at just a touch under 1,000 posts. Hopefully in the future, with the ability to switch between your normal account and anonymous account having been made easier thanks to the Tech Admins, activity in anonymous games will approach or equal the level of that in normal games, and we’ll start seeing closer games.

Both of these two items have swayed things significantly in favor of the mafia: the anonymous accounts by providing less information for the townies, and the death of the metagame by giving the mafia less to think about. Now, while the sample size is small, I believe two things: One, that the above is in fact the case. Two, that things are already regressing back to the norm. Despite everything I have mentioned above, the town was still one or two breaks away from winning. Anonymous accounts don’t look to be going away for the future, which means that people will get more comfortable with them. More comfort can only mean more posts and, possibly, a return of the metagame.

Kagemusha

07-20-2011, 13:40

Thank you for the general insight. Cant wait to read the commentary. I will comment more once it is out in the open.:bow:

TheLastDays

07-20-2011, 14:45

return of the metagame

Heh, will this be the title of Mafia XI?

Good read and I agree. This also disproves one of the Org's Mafia rules that states metagaming isn't as useful as one might think.

TinCow

07-20-2011, 14:48

Thanks for the commentary, GH. As noted here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136827-The-Thing-Mafia-Experimental-Anonymous-Account-Game&p=2053345725&viewfull=1#post2053345725), what you wrote is heavily influencing my thinking about the experimental anonymous game I'm working on. If you have some free time, I'd like to know what you think about how maintaining anonymity would impact game balance in that kind of setup.

Diamondeye

07-20-2011, 16:13

TheLastDays

07-20-2011, 16:23

I felt the same, if not for a rule, I felt obliged to try to stay anonymous for the spirit of the game. It wasn't until endgame that I stopped caring about that a bit...

GeneralHankerchief

07-20-2011, 19:34

A good read, GH. I have to say, one of the reasons I was less verbose (apart from having a usually "scummy" style) and tried to conceal my identity was that, as far as I remember, it was actively prohibited to outright reveal who you were. I felt like this restriction also forced me to anonymize my posts and play style as much as possible or indeed try to mix it up a bit to give an actively false impression of whom I might be. I think one of the major discussions concering the anonymous accounts would revolve around this subject; How much can you reveal? The only player I "figured out" was, unsurprisingly, AnneThePizzaGal, who has a very unique posting style and who didn't shy from it (especially in later stages of the game). That was a pretty solid clue to his identity and not something I would have felt comfortabel doing if my style was that distinct, yet I didn't feel ATPG broke any rules...

Opinions, anyone?

The rule was that you had to post under only the anonymous account for as long as you were alive, but there was no restriction on revealing yourself for who you were in the game - I half expected people to know who the alive people were in the endgame, much like Pizza's situation anyway. I debated it for a bit, but eventually decided against it, mainly for the reason that there would be absolutely no way of backing up your claim if you wanted to reveal yourself until you died. Who's to say that an "I'm Spartacus" type of situation wouldn't come up and cause some amusement for everybody?

Diamondeye

07-20-2011, 20:06

The rule was that you had to post under only the anonymous account for as long as you were alive, but there was no restriction on revealing yourself for who you were in the game - I half expected people to know who the alive people were in the endgame, much like Pizza's situation anyway. I debated it for a bit, but eventually decided against it, mainly for the reason that there would be absolutely no way of backing up your claim if you wanted to reveal yourself until you died. Who's to say that an "I'm Spartacus" type of situation wouldn't come up and cause some amusement for everybody?

I had the impression that deliberately revealing oneself was not allowed... Was that only true for the mini game, perhaps? Not that I think I would've done it anyway, but it would have been nice knowing.

Askthepizzaguy

07-22-2011, 00:40

I honestly tried lurking a little in the beginning of the game.

Never again. What a waste of freaking time. I felt so dirty.

Askthepizzaguy

07-24-2011, 04:16

Hey town! Even though we lost this game, in epic fashion, somehow I feel prouder of our performance now.

I thought I'd have to hide under my bed for the next few months after unvoting Fat Tony and lynching myself.

But no.

No, now that achievement has been overshadowed (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136627-Midgardsaga-III-In-Play).

Kagemusha

07-29-2011, 14:35

Where is the commentary GH?:deal2:

GeneralHankerchief

07-30-2011, 09:23

My commentary is finally finished. I make no apologies for the lateness - it was an absolute pain to write, as you can tell from the delay. At 8,381 words, it blows my word count record out of the water (the Godfather 3 commentary didn't even come close).

And with this, I officially and hereby declare Mafia X over! Let's party, everyone!!! :medievalcheers:

Game start

Mafia: Kagemusha and Crazed Rabbit

My PM to the two Mafiosi:

Okay, I lied about randomly generating the Mafia.

You two are the only two who have ever survived one of these games as the bad guys, as I’m sure you both know. For the tenth installment of the game, for the fifth anniversary of the Gameroom, I want to see if you can replicate your feat. It may be a bit gamey, but that’s where the anonymity comes in.

I’m sure you both know how this goes, but just in case, here’s a quick refresher course. The game starts with a night phase, so you can both send your first kills ASAP. You each get one kill per night, until/unless one of you dies, in which case the remaining Mafioso gets two. You can write as much or as little as you want, and I’ll fill in the gaps.

Best of luck, gentlemen. I’m very much interested in seeing how this turns out. :bow:

GH

From the beginning, Mafia X was going to be this. Well, maybe not from the beginning, as that would be taking us back to June 2006, before I had any idea of the staying power this thing would be, but at least in the summer of 2008, after I noted in my commentary for Mafia VIII (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?104162-Mafia-VIII-Return-of-the-Recommencement-of-the-Revenge-of-the-Mafia-Concluded&p=1958517&viewfull=1#post1958517), in the aftermath of yet another heartbreaking defeat for the mafia, that CR and Kage a) were the only two mafiosi ever to have survived the grind, and b) were the only two to have played in every single installment of the series, something which still holds true. Add that to the fact that Mafia X kicked off the Gameroom Anniversary, and I couldn’t resist. This would be their ultimate test.

(By the way, if either CR or Kage had not signed up for this one, I would have scrapped the idea and instead given the mafia PM to former mafiosi that had fallen just short in the past – probably khaan and Andres – and made the theme about second chances instead. In either case, I would not be randomly selecting the mafia for the first time in ten games for this installment.)

For reference, and the fact that aside from winning as mafiosi, their track records were better than most anyway, here’s what CR and Kage did in the first nine installments of the series leading up to this one:

Mafia I: Kage: Survived as Mafia. CR: Killed before last voting round, successfully deduced that Kage and Shadows were Mafia (Shadows was lynched, but Kage survived the double lynch phase).
Mafia II: Kage: Killed Night 5. CR: Killed Night 4 (game lasted 7-8 rounds).
Mafia III: Kage: Wogged in the first-ever inactivity killing on the .Org. CR: Detective, killed Round 9 after the worst luck in investigations I have ever seen but still successfully and correctly argued for Kommodus’s lynching.
Mafia IV: Kage: Asked to be lynched Round 1 and got his wish. The mafia were summarily lynched in the next two rounds, which is when Kagemusha’s Curse really started revealing itself. CR: Survived.
Mafia V: Kage: Killed Night 7 (game ended on Day 7). CR: One of five survivors.
Mafia VI: Kage: One of four survivors. CR: One of four survivors.
Mafia VII: Kage: CR’s final kill on Night 11. CR: Survived as mafia.
Mafia VIII: Kage: One of three survivors. CR: Killed Night 4.
Mafia IX: Kage: One of nine survivors. CR: Killed Night 1.
Mafia X: ???

Due to circumstances, I would say that this time Kage would have a harder go at it than before and CR a bit easier of a time. The reason for this was that nobody knew what they were doing in Mafia I and it was really only through a lot of help on my part that the town even got one of the mafiosi, and Mafia VII had a massive 39 players and CR looked cooked in the late midgame before he used the safety valve of his now-famous manipulation of The Truth in order to skate by for the rest of the game. All in all, however, I would say that their task was a bit easier than for most mafia teams.

First of all was the anonymity factor. It would cut down significantly on the metagame aspect of things, which, as discussed in the previous essay, I find usually hinders the mafia more than the town since they have to agonize over it and take it into account when making plans while the town just has to worry about finding the mafia. In addition, since nobody really wanted their true identities to be discovered – even though it had no impact on their actual guilt or innocence – brevity would be the name of the game. It was that way in the warm-up game, The Copa Clash, and I guessed that it would probably be that way in Mafia X, at least in the early rounds.

Second of all was the player composition. A lot of the townie powerhouses, past and present, were out of action for this one. Askthepizzaguy was being very concise as “Anne” and burdened by RL, Sasaki Kojiro was gone, and Kommodus had long since passed into legend. It would be up to their aspiring successors – Renata, Romanic,, and Diamondeye to name a few, plus the other contributing townies who are oh so important to vanilla games in particular – to step up and shine in their absence.

And so, roughly a week after I initially posted the Mafia X thread (which was posted five years not just to the day, but to the minute after I posted Mafia I), we were ready to begin.

Day 1

Crazed Rabbit kills Winston Hughes (Chickenman)
Kagemusha “kills” Giuseppe (robbiecon)
Winston kill an homage to: Mafia II (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?66579-Mafia-II-The-sequel-to-the-best-selling-forum-game-Concluded&p=1188216&viewfull=1#post1188216) (pond, ducks), Mafia IV (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?69865-Mafia-IV-Night-of-the-Living-Mafia-Concluded&p=1258947&viewfull=1#post1258947) (osmium)

The game started out ominously enough by both CR and Kage being late on their kills. With the townspeople becoming more and more restless and me panicking a bit on the inside, I finally got hold of CR and he filled in for Kage. A few hours on in the day phase Kage came online and apologized for his absence, which probably had both CR and I breathing sighs of relief. It would not be the last time that Kage was inactive in the game, but it would be the only time that he was accidentally inactive.

With every Mafia game that passes, I feel worse and worse about allowing the first set of kills to come before any voting. It just feels cheap to knock two people out of the game before they have the chance to immerse themselves at all, and the excuses I make to myself for keeping this system around, “storyline purposes” and “tradition”, feel more and more flimsy as time passes. I kept it the same this time because it was an Anniversary game, but for Mafia XI I think I’m seriously going to consider changing things up and starting with a vote before there are any kills. The storyline will have to suffer if need be.

The usual Round 1 shenanigans happened, and as I expected, a lot of people had to get used to the idea of anonymous accounts. Generally, khaan and I were pretty quick about getting rid of the non-anonymous posts, and in any case most of the time this happened the players quickly edited the contents of their posts out and waited another hour or two before posting again so as to avoid detection. There were some non-anonymous posts that I didn’t bother removing; these were generally comments that had no effect on gameplay. Also, I was lazy. :laugh4:

The poor saps up for the lynch this round were Jolt (Pedro) and Ignoramus (Luciano), interestingly with Jolt/Pedro initially starting the Iggy/Luciano bandwagon. More often than not in this round the players continued the pattern set in Copa Clash by posting once to lodge a vote and then saying nothing for the rest of the round, which resulted in a relatively quiet Day 1 that is usually good for getting me a couple pages’ worth of posts. Additionally, neither CR nor Kage voted this round.

Eventually Jolt got the lynch after a tiebreaker round, leaving me to determine which trends set in Round 1 were mirages and which ones would hold up over the course of the game.

Executed: Jolt (Pedro)

Day 2

Crazed Rabbit kills Visorslash (Maria)
Kagemusha kills johnhughthom (Christopher)
Christopher kill an homage to: Mafia I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?65526-New-forum-game-quot-Mafia-quot-Concluded&p=1169099&viewfull=1#post1169099)

Overshadowed by the start of CR’s radio-controlled killer (via ice-cream truck, jingle courtesy of YouTube) was the official start of my callbacks to past games in the Mafia series. After a round in which I threw in the pond/ducks/osmium reference – a running gag of sorts, I’m pretty sure I’ve referenced that pond once in every game – I started consciously doing it, going back through the old games and picking out bits that struck my fancy. This one was a total rewrite of a primitive kill I had thought up all the way back in Mafia I, a full five years ago. Things have changed a bit since then, as you can clearly see by the difference in writing styles. :sweatdrop: I was originally planning on having the references in chronological order as the game went on going from Mafia I to start and the final kill being a callback to something in Mafia IX, but later on when CR and Kage started giving me more detailed orders I found this impossible to do and just worked them in whenever I could. At this stage in the game they were still giving me carte blanche, and thus the references started coming in order.

Andres, as Rocco, started off the round by posting the following:

Rocco;2053327994']Djeez, that dude in my avatar really has a face that invites people to chop wood on it. I'm starting to dislike myself because of that annoying face. What a jerk.

If people were paying attention, they could have connected Andres to Rocco with that post, since “Djeez” is one of those verbal tics that people can use to identify other people with. I have never seen anyone besides our favorite Flemish lawyer-parent use that spelling of the more common “jeez”. However, as stated, figuring out who was who in this game signified nothing.

Another identifier to people paying attention was CR, as Fat Tony, making a callback to Mafia II and the origin of the term “meatballing” – though precious few people know that reference now.

Fat Tony;2053328409']Vote: Fingers

Soon he'll be voting for people because he saw them eating a tasty meatball.

In terms of voting patterns for this round, Day 2 followed the example set by Day 1. Votes were spread incredibly thinly, with a full 15 people getting at least one, and 11 people didn’t even show up at all. Andres ended up getting lynched with the ridiculously small plurality of four votes, and all in all it’s probably a good thing that I didn’t make him mafia as per my musings at the start of the game due to this lynch and the fact that shortly afterwards, he had to deal with an RL issue that was a massive crunch on his .Org time.

Executed: Andres (Rocco)

Day 3

Crazed Rabbit kills Death is yonder (Carlo)
Kagemusha kills issaikhaan (Furio)

Already CR and Kage were exerting more and more influence on the writeups, both of them giving me kill methods this time, so I was unable to work in a reference to previous games in these kills.

The votes got a little better this round. A lot of the eventual endgame players started making their marks this round; Renata (as Sonny) continuing her game-long crusade against autolycus (Vincent), glyphz (Luigi) popping in to make good analysis, and CR (Fat Tony) avoiding the main bandwagons like the plague. In addition, TheLastDays (Angelo) lodged a vote on CR, calling him out for shoddy reasoning, beginning the start of a long war between him and the mafia faction.

The problem was that there simply weren’t enough votes, and I, in a crisis of confidence, posted a poll to players asking what to do about the anonymous accounts (which I deemed the main reason for the increased inactivity). The general consensus was to finish the game out with the anons, since the only thing people were sure about was that they increased brevity – which in itself did not lead to fewer voters, only less content in their posts.

I’m still not certain what caused the amount of inactivity in the game, especially the early part. I don’t buy the explanation that it was a vanilla game and people had nothing to do, as that flies in the face of a large amount of contradictory evidence (see especially Godfather 3, where there were over 2,000 posts when only 28 people were playing and there were no WoGs). In any case, I decided to press on and continue with the anonymous accounts, as that was the majority opinion and I’m sure that getting rid of the anons would have thrown a lot of strategies in the gutter.

In terms of the actual voting activities for the round, Chaotix (Joe) ran into another random bandwagon and did not live to tell the tale. After three rounds, the mafia were doing fine, which surprised me not in the least since this was the established pattern for things (freak accidents like Mafias IV and IX nonwithstanding). The trick was, and it would always be: could they survive the endgame?

Executed: Chaotix (Joe)

Day 4

Crazed Rabbit kills Seon (Fingers)
Kagemusha kills ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88 (Big George)
Big George kill an homage to: The Godfather, Part 3 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?112254-The-Godfather-Part-3-Summary-thread&p=2157486&viewfull=1#post2157486)

Yes, I included an homage to a lynch scene that wasn’t part of the Mafia series. Sue me – the Godfather series is basically a spinoff anyway and Godfather 3 is the best game I’ve ever hosted. :yes:

A bit was made over the mafia’s kill selections over the course of the game. For all of the analysis that was attempted, Kage’s targets were entirely random until the very end, and CR did an offshoot of the randomness strategy and targeted the last people to vote before the previous day ended. As we’ll see later on, I wasn’t certain this strategy would pan out, especially after several other lurkers were whacked and Kage as Emilio was starting to stick out more and more. For now, though, it was still a good way to evade any potential analysis, as random killing always is.

The cases started to coalesce this round. Yes, there was the occasional random vote being thrown in the odd direction, but for the most part there were always a few “candidates” per round from here on out. This time, the three candidates were Diamondeye (Bugsy), Centurion1 (Connie), and Sigurd (Claudia). This round was also the start of a bizarre, but mostly ignored sideshow of ATPG (Anne) voting for spL1tp3r50naL1ty (Frank), without any explanation other than ATPG was basically certain Frank was mafia. Split would ultimately go on to be Wogged.

The main case on Diamondeye/Bugsy was a flawed case brought out by Populus Romanus (Johnny) which was based around, appropriately enough, kill choices. A few people bought into it, since in this game and at this stage of the game, flawed cases were generally the best cases around. However, the players noted that DE/Bugsy was offering up good analysis and ultimately decided to spare him, with DE escaping the tie by one vote. Kage assisted in creating the tie by slipping in and voting for Cent/Connie with a customary (for this game) non-sequitor:

Emilio;2053331508']vote:connie.I like tied up women.

This would allow him to evade the WoG notice for a little while longer.

In the tiebreaking round, Cent took umbrage to his overall situation which saved him, albeit, temporarily, and Sigurd went down mainly because he a) didn’t defend himself as much, and b) was identified as posting from a mobile device, even though it wasn’t true. I note with a bit of pleasure that this whole “scumtell” originated with Mafia IX when it was how Sasaki caught Subotan. :laugh4:

In any case, Sigurd got lynched, and his string of bad luck in the Mafia series continued. I’d post a game-by-game performance list similar to how I did with CR and Kage at the start, but in the interests of brevity (hah!) I’ll spare you from that.

Executed: Sigurd (Claudia)

Day 5

Crazed Rabbit kills Earthling (Nick)
Kagemusha kills Csargo (Mickey)
Mickey kill an homage to: Mafia VIII (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?104373-Mafia-VIII-information-and-summary-thread&p=1947227&viewfull=1#post1947227)

At this point in the game CR’s kills were becoming both more outlandish and detailed, so I had an easier time working in the past games references with Kage’s kills, which also had the benefit of not really having a set theme like CR’s radio-controlled killer.

Finally fed up with the inactivity, I put two players on the WoG chopping block: Greyblades (Fredo) and ACIN (Pete). Both were ultimately replaced. I’d also like to thank CR and Kage for not complaining (to me anyways) about this, as I know how annoying it can be as a Mafioso to basically have to survive one extra round due to replacements.

It is usually this point in the midgame where the town basically takes a round or two off and there are no real surprise candidates as everybody falls into the “next in line” mindset which can be so deadly to the town if they don’t mercilessly quarantine and regulate that mentality. This game proved no different, as Renata (Sonny) and ATPG (Anne) kept their usual jihads up on Vincent and Frank, respectively, and there were no real lynch candidates offered up aside from the runner-up from the previous day.

Earthling, now dead, started actively contributing more and offering contrarian targets. It was his first game in the Mafia series, but apparently he has a bit of a reputation from his play in ATPG Mafia 2 and over at other forums where not many people listen to him, as his advice wasn’t really heeded throughout the game.

The Cent/Connie wagon, far and away the runaway choice for the day, gained some legitimacy when Romanic (Bobby) made a nice long analysis post with the conclusion that it seemed like Cent wasn’t really looking for the mafia. It was a good intention, but again we see how the anonymous accounts and the removal of the metagame harmed the town, as normally this kind of behavior is scummy but it was more like par for course for Centurion. If the anonymous accounts were off, would Centurion still have been lynched? Probably, but I think there may have at least been a legitimate counter-wagon that would have sprung up that may have provided for better information in the endgame (a “lynch the lurker” wagon on Kage/Emilio, perhaps?). It’s interesting to speculate, but in the end that’s all we can do, and not much more.

Cent went down by a huge wagon in what some people were already calling a wasted round. Again though, this was nothing out of the ordinary.

Executed: Centurion1 (Connie)

Day 6

Crazed Rabbit kills Ashurnasirpal II (Salvatore)
Kagemusha kills B_Ray (Paulie)

No homages this round.

I was sad to see B_Ray go, as he had come back to the Gameroom out of nowhere a month or two back after an almost five-year absence. The last (and only) game he had played before his long vacation was Mafia III. B_Ray lasted for two rounds longer in this game.

I sent out more WoG warnings this round, three in total. Kage dodged it by doing his usual one-line vote, as did Ignoramus (Luciano), who after presenting the dominant case on Jolt/Pedro back on Day 1 had retreated into the shadows. Split (Frank) however, did not post, and as I had no more replacements lined up we had our one inactivity kill this round.

Due to the overwhelming bandwagon on Centurion the previous round, there was nobody really “next in line” for this day phase and thus the town had to start fresh again (which was probably for the best). The early part of the round was dominated by Cent berating everybody for the previous lynch and ATPG’s identity as Anne becoming an open secret. Pizza’s other activities this round included continuing his odd obsession with Frank before finally moving his vote, and questioning Kage for his absence but moving on without a vote. Not the new Content Manager’s finest hour. Again though, the breaks went against the town, for had ATPG’s inactive obsession gone in the direction of Emilio instead of Frank, he might have ultimately pressed harder after Kage showed up to save himself from the WoG once and then twice.

A couple of votes went the way of glyphz/Luigi, who aside from on Day 3 hadn’t really made much analysis yet. Eventually though, the town sentiment shifted and went the way of DE/Bugsy, who had made a couple of glaring factual errors and contradictions in his case on Luigi and was called out on it. I wasn’t sure the reasoning on this case was solid, as I generally find that a mafioso is going to be extra-careful on the facts when making these types of cases so as to appear more of the diligent townie. Still though, it was nice to see the town moving on beyond the “next in line” philosophy and actually doing some detective work.

Diamondeye went down without much opposition, and now the candidate pool was really starting to drop for our mafiosi as there were fifteen left after the lynch. If Mafia X was to follow the pattern of most of the other games, then I would be looking closely for the beginnings of the cases that would ultimately be CR’s and Kage’s undoing in the next couple of rounds.

Executed: Diamondeye (Bugsy)

Day 7

Crazed Rabbit kills Ignoramus (Luciano)
Kagemusha kills White_eyes:D (Ralph)

No homages this round (again), but I did manage to work in a Zero Wing reference in the Luciano kill.

It was at this point in the game where I was seriously starting to question the mafia’s kill choices. Both of the targets, Luciano especially, were low-profile players that would continue to make Kage stand out against an increasing number of town would-be detectives. CR was fitting in a little better, but if anyone seriously analyzed his posts (as Renata soon would) they would see that he was quite comfortable in his role of silent contrarian. However, the two of them doggedly stuck to random.org, at least for another few rounds.

A few things started to wind down this round as the transitioning to the endgame began. The old random feuds were mostly put to bed, as Frank was gone and Renata’s/Sonny’s on autolycus/Vincent would soon conclude. Additionally, the WoG notices were dwindling as activity amongst the remaining players either picked up, or they were removed courtesy of the WoG or the mafia’s kills.

Renata put the full-court press on Vincent this round with a long post-analysis post, ultimately coming to the same reason that Romanic/Bobby used to ruin Centurion: he wasn’t looking for the mafia. The two immediate posts to follow this analysis were TLD/Angelo - slowly becoming more of a presence in the game – agreeing with Renata and Earthling offering his usual contrarian perspective, suggesting the town focus on glyphz/Luigi (who had slipped back under the radar after his brief brush with death earlier).

The only serious opposition to this case was Romanic’s on Ibn-Khaldun (Bruno), which had the ever-popular reasoning of Bruno not really looking for a mafioso in his posts. Amazing what anonymous accounts can do to expose a person’s contributions as a townie, eh? :laugh4: However, nobody really jumped on this wagon and Romanic ended up being the only vote for Bruno this round. Finally in alternatives this round, the recently-deceased White_eyes picked up in activity and singled out ATPG/Anne for questionable behavior.

In our mafioso watch this round, CR made a rational post about how the town needed to lynch those who they considered scummy immediately (which a couple of people agreed with) and Kage celebrated not getting Wogged last round by not voting. Behind the scenes though, he was as active as ever.

Executed: autolycus (Vincent)

Day 8

Crazed Rabbit kills Secura (Pete)
Kagemusha kills Romanic (Bobby)

No homages this round. By now the mafiosi were giving me start-to-finish descriptions, leaving me to only write the filler, and thus it was getting quite difficult to throw references in.

I continued to privately question Kage’s kill choices, as his target for this round looked to be Suspect #1 for the day’s lynch due to the “next in line” theory, probably the last day that it would be valid anyway. Sure, Kage’s greatest threat was currently the WoG (he was up for it again), but all around him the walls were starting to close. If he didn’t have the exact right set of candidates with him at the endgame… well, one need only look at the fate of Lemur, Cowhead418, Gertgregoor, Kommodus, Reenk Roink, Seamus Fermanagh, Dutch_guy, Andres, Gaius Scribonius Curio, issaikhaan, and Subotan to see how well that would turn out.

The assault on TLD/Angelo began this round, with ATPG/Anne especially leading the charge. In his vote analysis post that round (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135978-Mafia-X-Concluded&p=2053335664&viewfull=1#post2053335664), he noted that Angelo had been a) a very consistent voter and b) usually voting for one of the front-runners that round. Additionally he perfectly summed up the sentiment on Kage that round by not even listing his votes, with the following reasoning:

Unimportant, for they shall be wogged, and the wog shall be good.

Interestingly, a little under four years ago, in Mafia VII, another noted town analyzer, Kommodus, also refused to even check out a particular person’s posts in the endgame, with the reasoning that It wasn’t worth his time. That person was Crazed Rabbit.

However, Angelo proved once again to be a survivor as the town shifted in other directions. When it became clear that Angelo wasn’t going to show up and engage in a tit-for-tat with his accuser, ATPG moved his vote to Populus Romanus (Johnny) who had voted for him only a little while back. This move was controversial at the time seeing as it seemed like a blatant play for greater influence by ATPG. It also worked, as the Johnny wagon was rolling thanks in part to the more inactive players showing up and hopping aboard.

Meanwhile, in an ominous sign for the mafia, Renata, one of the town’s best analyzers made a late case (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135978-Mafia-X-Concluded&p=2053336010&viewfull=1#post2053336010) on CR, using good reasoning and pointing out CR’s “avoid bandwagons at all costs” strategy for the entire town to see. It was too late in the day to swing the town’s momentum, but it made me think to Sasaki’s post that doomed the mafia team in Godfather 3, Kommodus’s dead-on Holmes readings farther back, and numerous other posts across the years that made mafiosi scream. Would it be repeated here once again?

Even though Populus Romanus was the day’s lynch victim, I could tell that the supreme moment was nearing.

Executed: Populus Romanus (Johnny)

Day 9

Crazed Rabbit kills Believer (Fredo)
Kagemusha kills ArpeggiateTHIS (Giorgio)

Giorgio kill an homage to: Mafia IX (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126877-Mafia-IX-Triumph-of-the-Mafia-Concluded&p=2453778&viewfull=1#post2453778)

Day Nine. The endgame had officially begun. This round had always been the bane of the mafia, providing for some spectacular lynches in games past. The two I can think of off the top of my head were Kommodus in Mafia III and khaan in Mafia VIII, both of which finished their respective teams off for good. I’m sure there were others as well. Obviously this wouldn’t have been the case in this game, but at the start of the round things weren’t looking good for CR thanks to Renata’s pressure.

After a couple of the usual random votes thrown about, the attack on CR/Fat Tony began with Renata’s hammering home her point and TLD joining in with good supporting evidence of his own (though he named CR’s partner as Captain Blackadder/Bertha). This was two verbose, well-thought out posts, which probably would have been enough to doom CR in the earlier rounds. However, as it was the endgame, people thought out every option more. Add in ATPG’s vote as well, and CR looked like a goner.

However, at this point, the breaks started to go CR’s way. First of all, he logged on and not only defended himself, but presented a viable alternative target in his erstwhile enemy, TLD/Angelo. This sort of thing alone, unless the defense itself is obviously terrible, is enough to help stem momentum, and CR’s defense was several notches above “terrible”.

Second, I got a round extension request by PM from Renata, citing the July 4th holiday and probable town inactivity as the reason. Leaving it up to the town to decide, I got support from both sides (CR for mafia, Renata and glyphz for town) and so decided to draw things out (Interestingly enough, I got a PM from Kage a little later on essentially saying that I wasn’t making things any easier for the mafia, not realizing that CR desperately wanted the extension). This allowed CR time to build on his momentum shift, and soon enough a counter-bandwagon on TLD was rolling. In a defeatist attitude, TLD self-voted, taking a vote off CR in the process. glyphz/Luigi stemmed the bleeding with a vote for CR, but it was now clear that things were going to be very close.

A third option presented itself when TLD out of nowhere voted Anne, saying that the Fat Tony/Bertha theory was just a smokescreen.

The breaks continued going the mafia’s way. In an absolutely catastrophic move, ATPG – whose vote had been on CR - self-voted with precisely one vote on him and put himself in a position to not be able to change his vote until after the round was scheduled to end. Ibn-Khaldun/Bruno, who had been going after Anne for some time now but whose vote was presently on TLD, quickly moved over, and just like that there was a three way tie.

Since the round had already been going on for well over 24 hours, and also since it was the endgame, I deviated from my previous tiebreaking method and instead kept the tally right where it was, giving people 12 hours to move their votes. At the risk of sounding clichéd, the game was now balanced on a razor’s edge. In all other games, at this point in time, someone would jump in and save the day with a vote for the right person.

This time? The round was scheduled to end at 2am, my time. At 1am, nobody had moved their vote. At 1:25, with me closely monitoring the forum, I noticed several players online: Bruno, Angelo, Sonny, and Richie. The former two’s votes were on ATPG/Anne and weren’t likely to move. Neither would the latter two, who had their votes on CR/Fat Tony. However, ATPG was also online and did nothing. As I saw the clock tick closer to the deadline, I couldn’t believe it. I knew that looking from a host’s perspective, I always had better information and after having hosted so many of these things was easily able to identify critical points in the game, but I still couldn’t believe ATPG didn’t take his vote off himself. He saw me make the public post that it was the endgame, right? How did he not see the stakes for what they were?

At 1:52, with eight minutes to go, CR, online, switched his vote over from TLD to ATPG. There were no other posts made in those eight minutes.

Executed: Askthepizzaguy (Anne)

Day 10

Crazed Rabbit kills Renata (Sonny)
Kagemusha kills Beefy187 (Richie)

No homages this round, unless you count the general weather metaphor that I’ve used consistently over the series.

While the town had one round left to lynch a mafioso before they were mathematically doomed, I wasn’t feeling very high about their chances. For one thing, the town had made an enormous effort to lynch the right person on Day 9 and had come up for nothing. From my perspective, the supreme moment had passed. The town was blown. Getting a target right would be more so out of luck than anything else. Perhaps they would finally go after serial lurker Emilio, but the time for lynching lurkers had passed, and two of that makeup had survived.

The mafia had added to this feeling of general town exhaustion with two beautiful kill choices: Renata and Beefy, two of CR’s biggest accusers. Any potential steam towards another attempt at lynching Fat Tony had been completely taken out of the town with these two kills. Even though the town was on its last legs, the mafia were still on their game, as demonstrated by this PM exchange the previous night:

Gentlemen,

As I'm sure you're both aware, if you survive one more lynch then you're guaranteed a victory. Tonight, though, aside from your kills choices, I present one more thing for you to think about: if you do survive this lynch, would you rather kill off everybody immediately over the following night phase, or drag things out and leave the remaining townspeople under the illusion that they can win for one more phase? I'm perfectly fine with either option, but I figured I'd give it to you guys to decide for yourselves.

Whatever happens next round, you've played a great game so far and I wish you the best of luck. :bow:

GH

We haven't won anything yet, and I can't relax or I'll screw up.

If neither of us gets lynched tomorrow, I prefer to drag it out.

Im sorry.I just got back from work. I agree with CR that nothing has been won as of yet.Hypothetically speaking id rather drag things out also. CR now we have to really start thinking who to kill. These are the final rounds where most mafiosi have fallen.Now its our time to stand out.:bow:

Kage

So we have these people left:
Angelo
Bertha
Bruno
Emilio
Fat Tony
Luigi
Richie
Sonny

Initial thoughts;
Angelo - keep him alive as a target for me. Or don't? Killing him might look like a mafia attempt to discredit me. Who will he vote for now that Anne is dead?
Bertha - I have no idea what this person will do. They seem to have a habit of not voting for me, though.
Bruno - fixated on Luigi now that Anne is dead. Probably good to keep alive as a vote for someone who's not me.
Luigi - good to keep alive as a target for Bruno. Voted for me, probably as a way to stay alive this round.
Richie - voted for me as well. Good kill target? No one thinks him suspicious.
Sonny - good to keep alive as an excuse I'm not mafia. Though that's kind of WIFOM, and killing him would be WIFOM too.

I'm going for a hike, so I'll be gone for ~8 hours at most.

CR

Im going to include GH to these talks also, as i think he should know what went on on our heads during these deciding moments in the game, which will help him create the write up also.

I am very happy that you survived, but my opinion is that Pizza wanted to die, so he could better serve the town cause by being dead. I do not think that was actually too good of a move as in this game that does not make him a confirmed townie, so i think he might have been bit trigger happy on himself.
In any case i am quite sure that he will be coming after you during the next day with every argument he can think off.

Let us look and compare the player list to a list who they actually might be:

Angelo
Bertha
Bruno
Emilio
Fat Tony
Luigi
Richie
Sonny

and

Beefy187
Renata
Captain Blackadder
glyphz
Ibn-Khaldun
TheLastDays
Crazed Rabbit = Fat Tony
Kagemusha = Emilio

For sake of convinience i have translated us both already into that list. Now, could we have any tells of the remaining people, who might be who? To me the next nght kills will be extremely important tool for us. We can either use it to get rid of those who are likely to vote like ATPG wants, or we might want to try and discriminate him with our kills. Or last option would be to just completely ignore the situation and confuse the town further with completely random killing.

I think all options have their up´s and down´s. But to me the most important question is that in case we can identify players from the living list. Who of them we want to take with us to the next round?

Kage

Finished off by the Steam conversation that CR quoted earlier:

Kage: Good morning :)
Mild Tennessee: And good evening to you :)
Kage: damn one should have a vacation adapting back from vacation :P I feel like a zombie after 3 hours of sleep
Mild Tennessee: we had a nice three day weekend in the states because of the fourth of july
Kage: yep, happy late independency day. My summer vacation ended on monday and i have bit hard time getting back to my normal schedule, it hard to get up at 5:30 am when you get down at 2 am. I guess we arent getting any younger
Mild Tennessee: nope, that aint much sleep
Kage: so you arent sure about Richie?
Kage: Whom are you thinking in his place?
Mild Tennessee: I'm wary, but it's probably the best way forward
Mild Tennessee: Truth be told, I'm most worried about Sonny. He's going to be confirmed innocent and want me dead, dead, dead.
Kage: I think you are going to get tons of heat in any case. The best we can do is to get rid of the actual voters and then have some other options
Mild Tennessee: That's probably right
Kage: Leaving Sonny /renata alive to become a rallying point might turn out to be disastrous. We only need to win the next round and we have pulled this off twice ;)
Kage: with the voting history of the others.I am quite sure that the votes will be spread and if the mafia votes are the only coordinated votes, while people go after their own targets.I thiink it is the best chance we have
Mild Tennessee: I agree. Let's kill Richie and Sonny.
Kage: Ok :)
Kage: Il go make some coffee and think of how to kill my target. Do yuo want to waste Sonny as he is your nemesis? :P
Mild Tennessee: Might as well :D
Kage: why not while we are at it ;)
Crazed Rabbit: awesome
Kage: Let us just hope this will play out, thank God we have white_eyes and Earthling in the crowd disagreeing about anything pizza will say
Crazed Rabbit: heehee they're great
Kage: Im just worried what pizza might cook, we are too close, but a good thing is that we are very hard to trace to each other. Im my prediction goes right.You will have to defend yourself like the last day phase and i go completely unnoticed. It would be fun to show people that lurkers are really something to take in count in these games, its totally different how i usually have played
Crazed Rabbit: Last day round I waited and hoped the heat would turn up on somebody else. This time I'm going to come out and at Angelo early on.
Kage: strange steam went offline there for a bit
Crazed Rabbit: I'll just repeat this then;
Crazed Rabbit: Last day round I waited and hoped the heat would turn up on somebody else. This time I'm going to come out and at Angelo early on.
Kage: I think thats a solid strategy
Kage: Il send a pm to GH now.I have to get out and leave for work in about 20
Crazed Rabbit: Ok, have a good day at work. I'll go to sleep in ~2 hours and check back in real quick in about 11 hours.
Kage: Ok, remember to send your kill ;)
Kage: ok we cant screw it up anymore. Mosquitos are going to take care of Richie
Kage: Have a good night.Im sure we have a quite interesting day phase coming our way! :)

They got it dead on. This was endgame strategy at its highest; keep a good balance between killing off those were not suspicious as well as those who were targeting you. Luckily for Kage and CR, those two categories heavily overlapped each other this time around.

In terms of the round, it opened with debate on ATPG’s actions the previous day, with glyphz calling him out for the early self-vote. ATPG, in his defense, cited being fed up with the constant accusations and his lynch allowing the town to move onto other targets, forgetting that being lynched proved nothing. As this emotionally-charged debate racked up in intensity, I had to step in and remind everyone to cool down, the only real tense point in the game which I’m more than fine with.

The newly-murdered Renata stepped in and correctly pointed out that the kills removed two votes on Fat Tony, but the mafia’s strategy worked perfectly. Her accusations didn’t have the same fire as when she was alive. And when she had to leave the thread for RL reasons, the chances of her impacting the last round diminished even further. The living townies had other remaining priorities and pet lynches.

A minor bandwagon went up on Blackadder/Bertha, the other lurker. Luck went the mafia’s way a final time, as it could just as easily have gone in Kage’s direction. It didn’t, however, and CR for once joined the bandwagon early and Kage sealed the town’s doom by placing the decisive fourth vote on Bertha in a round where only six people were alive.

Over Steam, Kage and CR were celebrating their clinched victory. The rest of the town, however, went out with barely a whimper. Some of them seemed to realize that they had failed.

Executed: Captain Blackadder (Bertha)

Day 11

Crazed Rabbit kills glyphz (Luigi)
Kagemusha kills Ibn-Khaldun (Bruno)

Bruno kill an homage to: Mafia V (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?72400-Mafia-V-The-Family-Strikes-Back-Concluded&p=1328833&viewfull=1#post1328833)

As previously mentioned, mathematically, the town had no chance of winning this game, which made this round essentially a victory lap for the two mafiosi. The only possible scenario in which the town could have secured a victory is one where Kage was WoG-eligible (which he wasn’t anyway) and both Kage and CR didn’t vote, and TLD would have voted for CR. That way CR would have been lynched with TLD’s one vote and Kage would have been Wogged. Obviously, the chances of that happening in any game were laughable.

Poor TLD, a part of him realizing his fate, fought to the bitter end. On the other side, the dead townies finally got their acts together, equally arguing for the lynch of both Fat Tony and Emilio, but since they had a 67% chance of guessing right, this didn’t mean much.

I customarily make the final, make-or-break rounds in my games (if they happen) 48 hours, and even though I gave people the impression that this round was one of them, I kept it at 24 mainly because TLD had been tortured enough. He even had a brief hope spot as the two mafiosi turned on each other before turning around and switching their votes to him. Angelo had made a lot of escapes this game, but this time, where he was facing two people who were aligned and whose victory condition would be fulfilled literally by killing him, he was doomed.

Executed: TheLastDays (Angelo)

Game end

Final kill an homage to: CR’s and Kage’s final kills in Mafia VII (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?90534-Mafia-VII-Shadows-of-the-Mafia-Concluded&p=1684662&viewfull=1#post1684662) and Mafia I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?65526-New-forum-game-quot-Mafia-quot-Concluded&p=1184215&viewfull=1#post1184215), respectively

As I had been promising since Mafia III, a Total Mafia Victory would result in the killing of the town’s Chief of Police, an NPC who has been a mainstay of the series from the very beginning and whoever is the current moderator of the Frontroom. I’m sure this scene meant a lot to CR and Kage, even if all of the other players dreaded it. As far as the game’s continuity goes, I don’t know if I’m going to resurrect JuJuBee for Mafia XI. Yes, the Frontroom of the Mafia series defies all laws of chemistry and physics, but for something as massive as this, I feel as if there should be some finality.

So where did things go wrong for the town? I identify three areas from different parts of the game. These are in both chronological order and in my opinion escalating order as well, meaning that in my opinion anyway the later reasons weigh more heavily than the earlier ones.

Firstly, in the early-to-midgame, the town simply didn’t generate enough data in terms of both post count and post content. This was probably a consequence of the anonymous accounts. In vanilla games, this is absolutely critical since what is said in the thread is literally the only thing you have to go on. I list this as least important because enough was still generated for Renata to make a case on CR at the end, but with more information at her back things would have been made a bit stronger and may have even convinced some of the other townies to abandon their pursuits and go with CR.

Secondly, in the midgame, the town did not lynch enough lurkers. There’s really no getting around this. The general strategy, refined over five years and ten-fifteen games, is to make the usual random lynches in the early game, lynch the obvious suspects and the lurkers in the midgame, and then focus and use the data generated by the previous lynches to get the mafia in the endgame. This strategy was deviated from and they left several lurkers alive. Two of them – Kage and Blackadder – survived until Day 10, and more would have if it weren’t for the mafia killing a lot of them via random.org. Even if the town had lynched one more lurker, say Blackadder, they would have focused on Kage on Day 10 and the random lynch would have left CR reeling and vulnerable on the final day.

Thirdly and most importantly, the town just couldn’t get over the hump on Day 9, the best chance they had at lynching a mafioso all game. CR looked doomed in the early part of it, but due to a number of events which I described above, sentiment shifted over the course of the round. You could probably simplify this to a case of bad timing and bad luck, but the fact remains that these breaks all went in the mafia’s favor where in games past they had gone the town’s. I could clearly tell early on in Day 10 that the town had ran out of gas.

All of the credit in the world, of course, has to go to our victorious mafiosi: Crazed Rabbit and Kagemusha, who have been here from Day One and proven beyond a doubt that they know how to play this game by achieving the impossible: a second victory as mafia where literally no one else has won once. Congratulations, gentlemen, you truly deserve the title of Eternal Champion. :bow:

A thanks of course goes to the town for their gallant efforts in this one. Despite the beating I’ve given them over the course of this commentary, they were still one or two very close breaks away from not only avoiding the Total Defeat but winning outright as well. This is a hallmark of how well they played and how close this series is. A very distinguished effort, everyone. :bow:

Finally, as this massive commentary comes to a close, I’d like to thank everybody from the bottom of my heart for playing and continuing to patronize the Gameroom. Five years ago, when I started Mafia I in the Frontroom, I never thought in my wildest dreams that we’d be here today, not only still playing Mafia but doing so in our own specified subforum and in one of the most popular areas in the site. This is all because you guys keep playing, which I am extremely grateful for. Great memories have been made, friendships have been formed, and I think most importantly, we’ve all had a lot of fun. I and all the others will keep hosting ‘em if you keep playing ‘em, and hopefully we’ll see you here in five more years.

And so, once again, thank you to everyone who has played a game in the Mafia series over the years:

a completely inoffensive name
AggonyDuck
Alexander the Pretty Good
Alexanderofmacedon
Andres (TheCunning)
ArpeggiateTHIS
Ashurnasirpal II
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
autolycus
B_Ray
Banquo's Ghost
Bar Kochba
Beefy187
Believer
Beskar
Big King Sanctaphrax
Byzantine Mercenary
ByzantineKnight
Caius Flaminius
Captain Blackadder
Centurion1
Chaotix
ChuggtheSquirrel
CountArach
Cowhead418
Craterus
Crazed Rabbit
Csargo
Cultured Drizzt Fan
Death is yonder
Death Match
DemonArchangel
Destroyer of Hope/Lord Winter
diablodelmar
Diamondeye
discovery1
Divine Wind
Divinus Arma
doc_bean
Don Corleone
Double A
Drisos
Dutch_guy
Earthling
Elite Ferret
evil_maniac from mars
FactionHeir
Faust|
FesterShinetop
Fragony
Gaius Scribonius Curio
georgeman51
Gertgregoor/Moros
glyphz
greater/kami/makai/seieri/Shinsei/Yasei/issaikhaan
Greyblades
Hepcat
Hiji
HughTower
Husar
Ianofsmeg16
Ibn-Khaldun
Ice
Ignoramus
JimBob
Joe Monks
johnhughthom
Jolt
Joooray
Kagemusha
Killfr3nzy
King Henry V
Kommodus
Kralizec
KukriKhan
Leet Eriksson
Lehesu
Lemur
LittleGrizzly
littlelostboy
Masy
Methos
Mithrandir
Motep
Myrddraal
Omanes Alexandropolites
Orb
Pannonian
Peasant Phill
pevergreen
Populus Romanus
Pra Tha Funkee Homo Sapien
Privateerkev
Proletariat
Quintus.J.Cicero
Redleg
Reenk Roink
Renata
RoadKill
robbiecon
Romanic
Rythmic/Psychonaut
sapi
Sarathos
Sasaki Kojiro
Seamus Fermanagh
Secura
Seon
Shadows
shlin28
Sigurd (Fafnesbane)
Silver Rusher
Sir Boo
Sir Moody
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
SSNeoperestroika
Stig
Stormcrow
Subotan
The Spartan
TheLastDays
Thermal Mercury
Tiberius
Tiberius of the Drake
TinCow
Tran
Tratorix/Brave_Sir_Robin
Twilightblade
Uesugi Kenshin
UltraWar
Visorslash
Warman
Warmaster Horus
White_eyes:D
Winston Hughes
woad&fangs
Wonderland
Xdeathfire/TevashSzat
Xiahou
Zalmoxis

That’s 141 names, folks. You should all be proud. We did this together.

~ General Hankerchief

Diamondeye

07-30-2011, 11:12

Huzzah! Great commentary, Gen'ral!

Also, me? Townie Prodigy? I would like everyone to remember this when people throw out the "always scum" argument :smug:

TheLastDays

07-30-2011, 12:35

Thanks for the commentary, a good read! :yes:

also FoS: DE

Askthepizzaguy

07-30-2011, 12:52

I think I will ignore all voices of the dead who call for my head, from this moment onward, forever.

My own move was a disaster, but if I didn't care about the non-voters who didn't know what they were talking about, I wouldn't have been so frustrated as to not care if I lived or died. And CR's head would be on Renata's mantle.

Lesson learned.

TheLastDays

07-30-2011, 13:20

I wish I had that staying power when I'm Mafia... basically when I self voted I think I was in the lead and calling for Anne's head was the only way to get people off me.

I don't think I really called the argument against Tony a smokescreen because I was more convinced of Tony's (and unfortunately Bertha's) guilt than of Anne/ATPG. But I knew the chances of Anne being scum were higher than the chances of myself being scum so I switched to her and somehow convinced myself of the argument I made. I should have broken the tie and went for Tony's head again.

classical_hero

07-30-2011, 15:21

I nearly signed up for this, but I just wasn't feeling the best for it.

Crazed Rabbit

08-03-2011, 05:59

Thanks for an excellent commentary to finish off an excellent game, GH.

:beam:

CR