OOC Thread

[Ibn-Khaldun]

This is the OOC Thread for Kings of the Nile. This thread is designed to be a simple chatroom for KotN players. This thread does not count as a "public thread" for the purposes of the KotN rules. No information posted in this thread will be considered as binding on the Officials. In short, this thread has no official relationship to KotN in any capacity. It is simply a chatroom.

Also, I want to remind you to follow Org Rules and to be kind and helpful to your fellow players.

[johnhughthom]

When do you think we'll be under way I-K?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm waiting a message from someone. If I receive it then I can set up the Royal Council and the Agoraa threads. Those will be main IC threads. Once they are up I can open the First Council Session and we can properly start the game.
However, you can already write stories about your characters. If those people who took FM's want to know what I did with their characters from 272 to 269 then PM me.

[Myth]

I've set the game modding files up on my PC and I'm waiting. I'll read everything as we go. So what's the best way to make money early on? Beat on enemies? BTW why isn't the campaign VH?

[johnhughthom]

A lot of people don't like EB VH, it gives the AI very large cash bonuses every turn. I play on Hard myself.

[LeoCordis]

Looking good. I think I'll write an origins story for my character, though at only 17 and his only real vice being that he is a little lazy it'll be hard to develop a character for him until we start playing.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I've set the game modding files up on my PC and I'm waiting. I'll read everything as we go. So what's the best way to make money early on? Beat on enemies? BTW why isn't the campaign VH?
VH would make running a game like this a bit difficult.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Btw, I have to ask this but do all of you have these requirements fulfilled?


Europa Barbarorum v1.2 + 1.2 fixes + Force Diplomacy + PBM mod

[LeoCordis]

We need force diplomacy?

[GenosseGeneral]

So, a question: In the signu-up thread have been posted some rules for 'private finances' and ways to spend them. I also read somewhere something about private units, but they are not listed as way of spending. Am I then right, if I assume that private money has nothing to do with in-game money (the M'nai spent on buildings, troops and diplomacy)?

Edit: What is PBM mod?
[PBM is Play by mail I guess, but where to download it and what does it change?]

[strategos roma]

I dont have PBM mod or FD. Do I really need them?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

We need force diplomacy?

Yes, it's mainly needed for the Chancellor(and for me as the GM) though. I am sure it is save game compatible if someone don't have it but to minimize the difference between peoples game files it would be nice if everybody have it.


So, a question: In the signu-up thread have been posted some rules for 'private finances' and ways to spend them. I also read somewhere something about private units, but they are not listed as way of spending. Am I then right, if I assume that private money has nothing to do with in-game money (the M'nai spent on buildings, troops and diplomacy)?

Edit: What is PBM mod?
[PBM is Play by mail I guess, but where to download it and what does it change?]

I will set up the Rules thread and will give the link to the mod as well. With it comes the EBBS script we will use. There are also EDU and EDB files wich allow us to recruit RBG's if needed. They are basically needed for the Chancellor and me only.

And yes, Private Funds are out of the game money you can use on various things. One of the most important ones is the ability to buy Private troops. You have to say what unit you want to recruit and it's recruitment cost will be taken from your Private funds. It's upkeep will also deducted from the Private funds. This means that the Royal Treasurer or the Chancellor must add the exact ammount of mnai to the in-game treasury to create a balance. Otherwise the kingdom would pay for the recruitment and upkeep of your private units.


I dont have PBM mod or FD. Do I really need them?

You need the EBBS script from the PBM mod. I answered to Leo about FD.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I took it upon myself to incorporate a bit of wikipedia through links in my character profile. His background was interesting so I opted to bring some out-of-game elements in his past. Hope this is alright with everyone as it does not 100% reflect on the in-game family tree. Not sure if I'll manage to roleplay all that stuff! But I sure as hell will try!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Of course it is!

Also, if anyone would like to use his private funds for building estates then let me know. I will build them and man them(spawn unit there). If you have a specific location in mind then let me know. Since we just started the game then I allow this.

[Myth]

So, if the Council meetings are held in Alexandria would it not be better for all of our avatars to have been beamed there? I would RP it out via messengers but I see others posting as if they are there, even if in-game they are not.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Since one turns last 3 months then it's not impossible for people to travel to Alexandria and then back to where they are in-game.

[LeoCordis]

I thought it was customary just to imagine our avatars took a long ride to Alexandria, considering turns last 3 months and the council session only a few days, then it is realistic to believe that the player characters moved to and from Alexandria in a turn.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I will create the Library and Status threads soon. After that, main threads should all be created.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

May I ask that all of you add the name of your character into your sig or something like this? Perhaps I can't remember all of the avatar names just because we started.. :shrug:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ashurnasirpal II - Thank you for taking time to gather all the Edicts. This made my work a bit easier.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

You're welcome! It's my first such game, I'm excited :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The Royal Library is updated with most of the information. There will be some small changes but most of it is there.

[Skullheadhq]

The first major hotseat since WotB ended two years ago, and hosted by the same sa who hosted WotB. I never participated in that, but wont let this chance go. I'm in.

[The Celtic Viking]

Good to have you onboard, Skullhead. ~:)

[Skullheadhq]

Good to have you onboard, Skullhead. ~:)

Thanks, I hope to see some more familiar faces here.

[LeoCordis]

Skullheadhq I don't think your character owns Sidon.

[Skullheadhq]

Skullheadhq I don't think your character owns Sidon.

Oh very well, where do I apply for that position?

[LeoCordis]

I think you should read the rules fully to understand the different ranks.

[johnhughthom]

Don't worry Skullheadq, you've a way to go to make as many mistakes as I have so far!

[Skullheadhq]

Don't worry Skullheadq, you've a way to go to make as many mistakes as I have so far!

This made me feel a little better, thanks.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Skullheadhq - We all make mistakes. So don't worry! If you have queations then you can always PM me or ask them here. I'm more than happy to answer. Also, the Council Session lasts 3 days because we all live in different time zones. So, with 3 days it's possible to propose legislations and have some debate over them.

Actually, this game have started much better than WotB did. I don't think in WotB players never proposed so many different Edicts. Personally, I think this is only good for the game. ~:)

[The Celtic Viking]

Oh, I agree with that completely. I'm loving it so far. ~:)

[johnhughthom]

It's beginning to look like three days might not be enough! I'm enjoying it so far too, looks like it's going to be a great game. Now where's our Kleronomos Basileios?

[Skullheadhq]

Does anyone see the double avatar thingy? If so, my KotN avatar is on top.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That can only be seen if URL avatars are enabled. Though, we can see it if we visit your userpage.

[The Celtic Viking]

(OOC: I changed the name Permanent Edict into the Law)

Oh, in that case you should go in and edit the Rules, because the Basileios rank still talks about permanent edicts. That's where I got it from.

Edit: also, I can't see much of a difference between a law and an edict in the rules. The only difference that I see is that Laws may perhaps be proposed even outside of Council Sessions. Is this really correct?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The difference is that Edict lasts only 12 turns(one full Chancellor term) while the Law last longer. If not changed then it could last until the end of the game.

Will edit the rules then.

[GenosseGeneral]

So an army/nomarchy created by an edict will only exist for 12 turns?

[Skullheadhq]

So an army/nomarchy created by an edict will only exist for 12 turns?
I don't know, changing nomarchies every 12 turns seems a bit of an overkill. What about the nomarchies stay as they are until a new edict stating otherwise will be accepted?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And that's why we have 'Laws'.

[Skullheadhq]

And that's why we have 'Laws'.
Already filed in 2 edicts, so someone else will have to propose it.

[LeoCordis]

Already filed in 2 edicts, so someone else will have to propose it.

It's already been proposed. It needs one more sponsor.

[Skullheadhq]

It's already been proposed. It needs one more sponsor.

What law number?

[LeoCordis]

What law number?

Law E1.1. I think it has enough sponsors now though.

[Skullheadhq]

Law E1.1. I think it has enough sponsors now though.
Okay, will vote for it once voting begins.

[The Celtic Viking]

No, Law E1.1 still only has one seconding, though he for some reason voiced it twice. ~;p

[Skullheadhq]

Cute Wolf might join us.

[LeoCordis]

No, Law E1.1 still only has one seconding, though he for some reason voiced it twice. ~;p

I see. Derp.

[phonicsmonkey]

Wow guys, this game really exploded into action. Nice work!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes. I'm surprised as well! :yes:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I ask that all of you list your private units(including Supervisor unit) in your SoT post. The same goes for estates and if you have trade ships then those as well.

[johnhughthom]

LeoCordis, I noticed you only voted on one edict, was that intentional?

[LeoCordis]

LeoCordis, I noticed you only voted on one edict, was that intentional?

No, it was accident. I sent IK my votes in a PM. I can repost them in the thread if anyone is really curious.

[johnhughthom]

No, it was accident. I sent IK my votes in a PM. I can repost them in the thread if anyone is really curious.

No, I just wanted to make sure you knew about it.

[GenosseGeneral]

Just out of pure interest: From how many different countries are we participants?

Me -> 1 for Germany ^^

[Folgore]

I'm from The Netherlands.

[LeoCordis]

These threads always embarrass me because most people are from a non-English speaking country whilst I can't speak any other language.

I'm from England if you couldn't tell from the previous sentence.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm from Estonia.

[The Celtic Viking]

Sweden here. :sweden:

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Canada, Quebec to be precise. And yes, I am a frenchie!

And this chancellor business gave me a headache :juggle2::dizzy2::juggle2:

I think I didn't make any mistakes. This playstyle is very new to me so if there's anything, please tell me! I might ignore your in-game requests, deny your character any chance for advancement and use all my resources to make your life miserable for having slighted my ego but you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you helped me achieve that more efficiently!

ahem...

I will try to take into consideration your sound advice :evilgrin:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, Chancellor is the one who ends the turn. Usually, everything that the Chancellor have to do he will do when he ends the turn as well. Just give minimum of 24 hours to the people to take the save and make their moves.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I'll be sure to do that then. But as I've been working for hours on end since last week, I prefer to play when I have the time. Access to the internet is one thing. Access to the game however...

[Visor]

I am from Terrae Nullius. (Australis).

[Zim]

Does Activity as listed in the library have any effect on the game (for instance, in many of the major RPGs here missing about two coting sessions could result in losing a character)? I was surprised to check the voting thread last night, well ahead of the deadline, and find it had been closed already. I don't really mind if this was to expedite things (I assume I didn't have enough influence to affect whether any edicts passed or not) but don't want to be dinged every session the gm decides to finish early.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Does Activity as listed in the library have any effect on the game (for instance, in many of the major RPGs here missing about two coting sessions could result in losing a character)? I was surprised to check the voting thread last night, well ahead of the deadline, and find it had been closed already. I don't really mind if this was to expedite things (I assume I didn't have enough influence to affect whether any edicts passed or not) but don't want to be dinged every session the gm decides to finish early.

This is how it works here as well. Also, I explained why I closed the poll in the PM.


LeoCordis - I can't teleport your avatar to Side at the moment. Perhaps Ashurnasirpal can do it? But if the turn is not finished yet in the morning when I wake up then I'll teleport Bothos to Side. Just remember that you can't move the next turn.

[LeoCordis]

This is how it works here as well. Also, I explained why I closed the poll in the PM.


LeoCordis - I can't teleport your avatar to Side at the moment. Perhaps Ashurnasirpal can do it? But if the turn is not finished yet in the morning when I wake up then I'll teleport Bothos to Side. Just remember that you can't move the next turn.

Would be appreciated if he could do it this turn. And I think missing a turn is better than sailing or walking the whole way. :3

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Couple of questions here:

1- How does private unit recruitment works? Do we PM Ibn Khaldun? Can we use those funds to construct buildings? If so where? Only the city we're in? Or say, as Nomarch, anywhere in the Nomarchy? As Basileos, anywhere in the Kingdom?

2- From what I understand, any armies which aren't a regular or royal army are under the command of the Polemarchos, that would make Side's army my jurisdiction. This is a reference to my OOC comment (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136141-The-Royal-Council&p=2053329472&viewfull=1#post2053329472) in the Council thread.

Relevant rule Polemarchos (Chief of Armies)
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can set the recruitment queue in every settlement in the kingdom.
(2) Can lead an army of max 16 units.
(3) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(4) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(5) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 1 Law during Emergency Council Sessions.
(6) Can ban(or lift an existing ban) reqruitment in one settlement for a year(4 turns). This applies to Private units as well.
(7) Can move captain lead armies any way he wishes.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot set recruitment queue in a settlement that belongs to an Allied kingdom.
(2) Cannot recruit fleets.
(3) Cannot move units through Allied kingdom if this is denied by the Allied ruler.
(4) Cannot move units in the territory of Nomarchy if the Nomarch have denied so.

4.2 Regular Armies

Regular Armies consist of a minimum of 4 infantry regiments, 2 ranged and 2 cavalry regiments.
For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ Bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments.
Basileus will decide who commands it.
Regular Armies can be created only during the Council Session by an Edict.
All Regular Armies are marked with a number and a name of the region where they were first formed: 'IV Syrian Army'
Regular Armies can be disbanded only during the Council Session using an Edict.

I don't see anything else on the subject. This is not 100% clear. What about an army that's lead by an avatar in-game, but has not been assigned as a regular army to that player?

3- What would happen if a unit is detached from a regular or royal army and left in a fort or city? Does that unit remain part of that army? Or is the army simply in need of replenishment while the unit is back under the command of the Polemarchos? Actually, are all garrisons by default under the Polemarchos' command? Is there no such title/rank/office as the governor of a single city?


:dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Couple of questions here:

1- How does private unit recruitment works? Do we PM Ibn Khaldun? Can we use those funds to construct buildings? If so where? Only the city we're in? Or say, as Nomarch, anywhere in the Nomarchy? As Basileos, anywhere in the Kingdom?

Royal Treasurer is the person who you should contact if you want to recruit private units. At the moment it is me. You can either PM me or say what unit you want in the Treasury thread. You can construct buildings(with your private funds) only if certain Law/Edict that allows you to do it passes.


2- From what I understand, any armies which aren't a regular or royal army are under the command of the Polemarchos, that would make Side's army my jurisdiction. This is a reference to my OOC comment (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136141-The-Royal-Council&p=2053329472&viewfull=1#post2053329472) in the Council thread.

Relevant rule Polemarchos (Chief of Armies)
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can set the recruitment queue in every settlement in the kingdom.
(2) Can lead an army of max 16 units.
(3) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(4) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(5) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 1 Law during Emergency Council Sessions.
(6) Can ban(or lift an existing ban) reqruitment in one settlement for a year(4 turns). This applies to Private units as well.
(7) Can move captain lead armies any way he wishes.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot set recruitment queue in a settlement that belongs to an Allied kingdom.
(2) Cannot recruit fleets.
(3) Cannot move units through Allied kingdom if this is denied by the Allied ruler.
(4) Cannot move units in the territory of Nomarchy if the Nomarch have denied so.

4.2 Regular Armies

Regular Armies consist of a minimum of 4 infantry regiments, 2 ranged and 2 cavalry regiments.
For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ Bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments.
Basileus will decide who commands it.
Regular Armies can be created only during the Council Session by an Edict.
All Regular Armies are marked with a number and a name of the region where they were first formed: 'IV Syrian Army'
Regular Armies can be disbanded only during the Council Session using an Edict.

I don't see anything else on the subject. This is not 100% clear. What about an army that's lead by an avatar in-game, but has not been assigned as a regular army to that player?

Yes, Polemarchos can move any unit in any way he wishes. And yes, Side's garrison is under Polemarchos' jurisdiction.


3- What would happen if a unit is detached from a regular or royal army and left in a fort or city? Does that unit remain part of that army? Or is the army simply in need of replenishment while the unit is back under the command of the Polemarchos? Actually, are all garrisons by default under the Polemarchos' command? Is there no such title/rank/office as the governor of a single city?


:dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:
That unit remains part of the army from which it was detached. If the owner of said unit have not mentioned in his SoT post that the Polemarchos can not move it then he, Polemarchos, can do it. Otherwise, only the owner of the unit can move it.
Yes, all garrisons are under the Polemarchos' command.
There is no title as the governor of a singl city. However, through Laws/Edicts it's possible to give governorship over a single city to someone. What powers(set build queue, tax rate etc) he have should be mentioned there as well.

[Skullheadhq]

I am from Terrae Nullius. (Australis).

Batavia here.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

@ johnhughthom and Myth - Can I merge your conversation in the Stories thread into one post? The Agora was created exactly for this kind off IC conversations.

[johnhughthom]

@ johnhughthom and Myth - Can I merge your conversation in the Stories thread into one post? The Agora was created exactly for this kind off IC conversations.

I've no problem with it, though it doesn't exactly fit in the Agora as it doesn't take place in Alexandria. I hadn't intended to spam the thread, just posted something to get it going, then Myth replied and it would be rude to ignore him. :smiley:

[johnhughthom]

Visorslash and Skullheadq, you can have your avatars teleported to a particular destination, like LeoCordis did, rather than have them walk all the way to the Holy Lands.

[Skullheadhq]

Visorslash and Skullheadq, you can have your avatars teleported to a particular destination, like LeoCordis did, rather than have them walk all the way to the Holy Lands.

I like a walk.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

And when I am supposed to end the turn? It seems most people have played.

[LeoCordis]

You're supposed to end it after 24 years, but you're allowed to give extra time at your discretion.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And when I am supposed to end the turn? It seems most people have played.

Like Leo said:

You're supposed to end it after 24 years, but you're allowed to give extra time at your discretion.

Edit: You don't have to wait until everybody have taken the save. Also, it should be 24 hours and not years :laugh4:

[johnhughthom]

:stunned:

[LeoCordis]

Oh lord. :D

[Visor]

Visorslash and Skullheadq, you can have your avatars teleported to a particular destination, like LeoCordis did, rather than have them walk all the way to the Holy Lands.

I prefer a walk. This way not only do I get to see beautiful sites, my funds accrue and I can buy an army when I get to my destination. On that note, will private units appear with the general?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I prefer a walk. This way not only do I get to see beautiful sites, my funds accrue and I can buy an army when I get to my destination. On that note, will private units appear with the general?

No, they appear in the nearest settlement.

[Visor]

Bah. Oh well. I'll just walk to the nearest settlement to the Seleucids we have, recruit an army and go take me some land.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I'll do it tomorrow. Some people asked me to move their characters so I'll do that at the same time.

[The Celtic Viking]

Ash, you didn't by any chance actually play that battle yourself, did you? I ask only because the rules require that battle to be autocalced, and, well, I think an autocalced victory like that is kind of improbable.

[johnhughthom]

It looks likely enough for an AI seige defence to me.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Autocalc. If I had played, we most likely would have lost. I started playing this mod only when I joined this game, 1 game with the Romans, and I'm being kicked around by both the Carthaginians and the Epirotes :smash::smash::smash:

But I am getting better though!

[johnhughthom]

I've been playing EB for about 5 years, but pretty much my only experience with phalanx based armies was WoTB, I'm a bit worried about what's going to happen when I reach Paratoinon. Give me some men with bows on horses and I'm in my element, slow dudes with big spears I'm not so hot with.

[Myth]

Wait, the whole game is autocalc? Where's the fun in that?

[The Celtic Viking]

No no, only battles where no one's avatar is present are auto-calced.

Anyway, call me positively surprised, then. I was sure that we'd get AC screwed there.

[johnhughthom]

It's okay to take the save now, right?

[The Celtic Viking]

Yes, go ahead.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

No no, only battles where no one's avatar is present are auto-calced.

Anyway, call me positively surprised, then. I was sure that we'd get AC screwed there.

Quite surprised as well. I was expecting us to lose. I was disappointed when I saw the AI initiate battle right away, but we've got a little breather. Don't expect it to last though.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ashurnasirpal II - You can decline those suitable husbands because if they are not accepted right away then later when you want to accept them then they die.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Alright I'll do that. But should I accept them in the future?

[johnhughthom]

I suggest anybody with a daughter/sister of marriable age set some points on who they'll accept. eg not older than 30, must be Makedone, not dull etc.

[The Celtic Viking]

Never mind, look away, nothing to see here...

[Myth]

I suggest anybody with a daughter/sister of marriable age set some points on who they'll accept. eg not older than 30, must be Makedone, not dull etc.
We must discuss Kleopatra's future then! :)

[johnhughthom]

Only the Trierarchos can move navies, please refrain from doing it in the future.

Trierarchos (Chief of Navies)
Requirements: None
Influence: 2 during Emergency Council Session.
Powers:
(1) Can prioritize the construction of 2 fleets(~2 naval units) during his term.
(2) Can move any fleet that belongs to the kingdom.
(3) This office is always held in the same time as other ranks.
(4) If no one is elected in to this office then the Chancellor will receive it by default.
(5) Can propose up to 5 Edicts and 1 Law during Emergency Council Sessions.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot move a fleet that belongs to an Allied kingdom.
(2) Cannot recruit land units.
(3) Cannot move fleets to the ports of Allied kingdom if this is denied by the Allied ruler.

I asked in the council thread and didn't get a reply. Silence = Implied consent. :wink: Won't happen again.

[Visor]

Can the Basileious move my guy to the Holy Land while I'm gone? I give him permission.

If possible, I also give him permission to use my gunds to purchase some men to supplement my general to take a settlement.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TCV - I think you forgot to upload the save?

edit: Oh.. the battle took place during the AI turn..

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, it's currently in Ash's hands, awaiting full Chancellor report.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TCV - Did you occupy Damaskos? Need this to calculate the income.

[The Celtic Viking]

Yes, I did. It gave a twohundred-something number; maybe I should have taken note of it. :shame:

Edit: realized that I had the save from just after the battle but before the occupation. Seems it was 203 mnai.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If there were no casualties(civilian ones) in Damaskos then it doesn't matter.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I posted the save kinda late today because of the battle that had to be fought. Tomorrow I'm out of town all day. I'll try to end the turn in the morning before I leave, but there'll be no report. If I see anything major, I'll just leave it as is, and change it in the evening / next day.

[Myth]

So what kind of units can we recruit privately? Only that which is available from the buildings?

[johnhughthom]

The rules don't seem to set any limits, so I imagine we can recruit mercs if we want. Cue everybody sailing off to Cape Whatever it's called just south of Sparta.

[LeoCordis]

The rules don't seem to set any limits, so I imagine we can recruit mercs if we want. Cue everybody sailing off to Cape Whatever it's called just south of Sparta.

We've asked some very specific questions in the Royal Treasury thread. I hope IK goes through the exact rules, if any, soon. I want a delicious army.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The rules don't seem to set any limits, so I imagine we can recruit mercs if we want. Cue everybody sailing off to Cape Whatever it's called just south of Sparta.

Yes, you can recruit them. For you it's much easier to sail there since you own the Trireis fleet! ~;)


So what kind of units can we recruit privately? Only that which is available from the buildings?

Here you can find my answer (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136295-Private-Funds-OOC-discussion&p=2053332680#post2053332680).


We've asked some very specific questions in the Royal Treasury thread. I hope IK goes through the exact rules, if any, soon. I want a delicious army.

Delicious army? Are you planning to eat them!

[johnhughthom]

For you it's much easier to sail there since you own the Trireis fleet! ~;)

Really? I thought it would have come under the control of Ash.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Really? I thought it would have come under the control of Ash.

Trireis were recruited with private funds. Upkeep is payed using the private funds. That makes it a private unit. Since you payed the initial 1500 mnai and are named in the Law E1.2 then you will control/own that fleet. Whether you allow Ash to use it is up to you.

[Folgore]

Keep in mind that the entire council pays for its upkeep and will be understandably upset if you start using it for transporting Cretan pottery to your estate. ;)

[Myth]

I'd be more interested in the archers than the pottery...

[johnhughthom]

I'm going to find another partner for plan "overthrow Tyrranical Celtic Viking" if you can't keep quiet about our plans for bringing the army in in pots...
Next you'll be letting on about bringing the Thessalian cavalry hidden in rugs. :stare:


:clown:

Where is our chancellor with that report, I've a battle to fight. :smash:

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Sorry got sidetracked :oops: Posting it in a few minutes!

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm going to find another partner for plan "overthrow Tyrranical Celtic Viking" if you can't keep quiet about our plans for bringing the army in in pots...
Next you'll be letting on about bringing the Thessalian cavalry hidden in rugs.

That's it! I'm banning all pottery and rugs! Also, all men who refuse to identify themselves and carries "Death to TCV!" banners.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That's it! I'm banning all pottery and rugs! Also, all men who refuse to identify themselves and carries "Death to TCV!" banners.

And I just ordered new tunics with "Death to TCV!" written on the backs.. Oh well..

[The Celtic Viking]

Hah! Make that into a brand name and give me 50% of the profits and those are okay. ~;)

[Zim]

Sorry everyone. :bow: It looks like I no longer have a functioning RTW disc to play on. I'll have to drop out for now. The heir should go to someone who has the time to be more active anyway. When I can get back in I'l try with someone a little lower ranking. Hopefully by then I'll have lost some of the hotseats I'm in. :clown:

[The Celtic Viking]

Sorry to hear that, Zim. Would it help at all if I had the Margrave take you out of V&V? ~;)

Now, if I need to elect a new heir, well... let the auction begin!

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I'd rather think we need a player for Euergetes. Maybe one of the current players can switch avatars? Or find someone new?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Zim - There are ways to play RTW that doesn't require disk(such as getting a new RTW from GamersGate or from another site like that since these don't need disk to play). However, I'm sad to hear that you are out.

If no one wants Euergetes then I will kill him off blaming that mysterious illness.
However, if one of the current players decide to take him then his old avatar will be killed off.
Also, if someone takes heir then he should remember that he can't transfer his personal funds from an old avatar to Euergetes. He can leave his fortune to another player who then could gift it back when the player have assumed the role of Euergetes.

[johnhughthom]

Perhaps a post in the thread in the EB forum that the faction heir is available might find a new player?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Good idea! ~:)

[Ashurnasirpal II]

If we do not find someone soon for Euergetes, I wouldn't simply kill off the character. I think we should rather go along with that illness story. After all, he was "historically" the third Ptolemaic ruler. We'll eventually get someone to play him. In the meantime, we could reassign his Royal Army/split it/etc. through edicts/laws in Council. The eventual player would have to deal with that situation when he comes in. The character is young enough to endure till then.

[LeoCordis]

I will play Euergetes, though I assume it will be pretty awkward for you to sort out all the finances + private units.

I will however, sacrifice my most loved Bothos to keep a much better game going.

Don't tell anyone that I'm looking forward to a big army. Mwahahahahahaha

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Or that could work :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I will play Euergetes, though I assume it will be pretty awkward for you to sort out all the finances + private units.

I will however, sacrifice my most loved Bothos to keep a much better game going.

Don't tell anyone that I'm looking forward to a big army. Mwahahahahahaha

You can still write Bothos' Will and leave everything you belong to another player(who then could give it back to you but do not have to).

[LeoCordis]

I assume you will kill off Bothos then?

And also if I give you Bothos' possessions will you donate them all to Euergetes?

[Ashurnasirpal II]

As this is really just an OOC change of characters, shouldn't we just eliminate all of Bothos' possessions? Otherwise, Euergetes ends up with twice as much money as anyone else. So early in the game, this seems unbalancing.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I assume you will kill off Bothos then?

And also if I give you Bothos' possessions will you donate them all to Euergetes?

Yes, I will then kill off Bothos. Perhaps you have some ideas how you want him to die? Send a PM if you do. You know, this is a good story material. ~;)

If you post his will in a public(IC) thread and leave everything to Zoarchos then yes, I will give it back to you.

[Folgore]

As this is really just an OOC change of characters, shouldn't we just eliminate all of Bothos' possessions? Otherwise, Euergetes ends up with twice as much money as anyone else. So early in the game, this seems unbalancing.
Euergetes doesn't have any possessions, just 2326 mnai. It would be unfair not to let him have Bothos' possessions.

[LeoCordis]

I only want to give him the money and estate, which I would have had if I'd played the heir all along.

I want Bothos to die in a womanising related accident. The best kind.

[johnhughthom]

Either way is unbalanced, either he gets more money than everyone else, or loses out as Eurgetes hadn't invested in anything. Just switching Bothos' estates/money/units over to Eurgetes and deleting Eurgetes funds is the only way that's fair on everybody really. To be honest I'm not bothered if he gets it all though.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Either way is unbalanced, either he gets more money than everyone else, or loses out as Eurgetes hadn't invested in anything. Just switching Bothos' estates/money/units over to Eurgetes and deleting Eurgetes funds is the only way that's fair on everybody really. To be honest I'm not bothered if he gets it all though.

Well yeah. What he said :clown:

[LeoCordis]

OK, that's good for me. To make it a little fairer on everyone else the private units will be disbanded.

So the way I see it: Bothos' money/estate (+ supervisors) will be added to Eurgetes, whilst all of Eurgetes money will be deleted.

I hope that's quite fair and people will agree that an active Kleronomous Basileus is better than an RGB. :]

[johnhughthom]

I don't think you need to disband the private units, they were paid for in good faith, so I've no problem with them going to Eurgetes. I guess we should wait for I-K's thoughts though.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, if we add Bothos' and Euergetes' money together we would get 6378 mnai. 6 players have more mnai than that. So, I don't think that it is that unbalanced.


I don't think you need to disband the private units, they were paid for in good faith, so I've no problem with them going to Eurgetes. I guess we should wait for I-K's thoughts though.

It's up to LeoCordis whether he disbands them or not.

[The Celtic Viking]

Just to point it out, if he keeps Bothos money and adds that to Eurgete's money there'd still be 6 players who would have more money than him. ~;)

Edit: Awww, Ibn beat me to it.

[johnhughthom]

Well, if we add Bothos' and Euergetes' money together we would get 6378 mnai. 6 players have more mnai than that. So, I don't think that it is that unbalanced.


I guess if the private units are disbanded that would be fine.

[LeoCordis]

Right, keep the money and disband the units. Hopefully everyone is fine with that.

Finally on a rule note, am I allowed to move the ships with the Heir's Royal Army on towards Tarsos, or must the Chancellor do that?

[The Celtic Viking]

I would say that you can do that.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Actually, as long as he hauls ass to Tarsos with that army, I'll be happy! It's been sitting there since the beginning eating up any scraps I could have used to upgrade this dirt poor kingom!

And the edict allows you to move the ships to get to Tarsos! After that, they're mine! MIIIIIIINE!!!!

[johnhughthom]

It might be a good idea to move the triereis with the transport fleet Leo, I think the Seleukid fleet was sunk but it might be hiding somewhere. It would be an inglorious end to your short heirdom to be drowned...

[LeoCordis]

Right, well my army can't even reach the ships yet. I'll try and haul ass to Tarsos and take it by the next council term. :]

[Ashurnasirpal II]

:clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Huh.. something is really really wrong with the table system of this board.. Was trying to fix some small changes in the Library and basically the whole table went crazy..

[Folgore]

#

Avatar

Rank(s)

Player

Inf

Act



1.

Philadelphos Ptolemaios

Basileus

The Celtic Viking

5

1



2.

Euergetes Ptolemaios

Kleronomos Basileios

LeoCordis

2

1



3.

Meleagros Ptolemaios

Nomarch, Chancellor

Ashurnasirpal II

2

1



4.

Leontiskos Thraikikos

Strategos, Com. of 1st Syrian

johnhughthom

1

1



5.

Alexandros Thraikikos

Strategos

Myth

1

1



6.

Timon Arrhidaeos

Strategos

Folgore

1

1



7.

Zoarchos Helios

Strategos, Royal Treasurer

Ibn-Khaldun

1

1



8.

Satyrion Limyraios

Strategos

GenosseGeneral

1

1



9.

Ankhwennefer Philometor

Strategos

Visorslash

1

1



10.

Isigonos Kleopatrites

Strategos

strategos roma

1

1



11.

Kydrogenes Epiphanes

Strategos

Skullheadhq

1

1




Last Updated:

27/06/2011








Inf - Influence during normal Council Sessions.
Act - Activity.
If you remove ="class: outer_border", it looks normal.

[The Celtic Viking]

OOD: Rules are slightly contradictary regarding this:

Strategoi can attack Eleutheroi settlements with their Private units(and only with them) even if war has not been declared against that settlement.


That's the catch: if you want to attack eleutheroi settlements with your private units, there's nothing I can do to stop you. It's your right. You just need my permission to enter their territory first. :grin:

[Ashurnasirpal II]

That's the catch: if you want to attack eleutheroi settlements with your private units, there's nothing I can do to stop you. It's your right. You just need my permission to enter their territory first. :grin:

As much as I'd like to agree and it could make sense IC, as for the rules, in the way they are written now, this is incorrect. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun could re-write them but this would seem unfair at this point in the game. There is no special mention that Eleutheroi are neutral all-over in the rules. So, going by the rules, anyone can move their avatar into Eleutheroi territory.

This could of course be remedied with a proper edict, or, say an OOC vote to change the rules? Or maybe just consensus, as I'd agree, RP-wise, it would make sense.

Another loophole seems to be that, the Chancellor, controlling the diplomats, could theoretically make peace with anyone without consulting the council or Basileos.

For anyone who'd think that such control by the Basileos would be too harsh, let's just remember that this game isn't really made to encourage loyalty and togetherness :devil:



Also, I've started a little story (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136108-Stories-Thread&p=2053334836&viewfull=1#post2053334836) on Meleagros' past which I will try to have catch up to current events. Trying to flesh out the character and to perhaps create some motivations for interaction beyond the rules :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

As much as I'd like to agree and it could make sense IC, as for the rules, in the way they are written now, this is incorrect. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun could re-write them but this would seem unfair at this point in the game. There is no special mention that Eleutheroi are neutral all-over in the rules. So, going by the rules, anyone can move their avatar into Eleutheroi territory.

This could of course be remedied with a proper edict, or, say an OOC vote to change the rules? Or maybe just consensus, as I'd agree, RP-wise, it would make sense.

You can always pass a Law that is much more powerful than Edict. However, we can always change that rule during the next Council session.


Another loophole seems to be that, the Chancellor, controlling the diplomats, could theoretically make peace with anyone without consulting the council or Basileos.

For anyone who'd think that such control by the Basileos would be too harsh, let's just remember that this game isn't really made to encourage loyalty and togetherness :devil:



Also, I've started a little story (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136108-Stories-Thread&p=2053334836&viewfull=1#post2053334836) on Meleagros' past which I will try to have catch up to current events. Trying to flesh out the character and to perhaps create some motivations for interaction beyond the rules :beam:

Well, if you sign a peace with the Seleucids and give them several provinces in process then I doubt that it encourages tegetherness.

[The Celtic Viking]

As much as I'd like to agree and it could make sense IC, as for the rules, in the way they are written now, this is incorrect. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun could re-write them but this would seem unfair at this point in the game. There is no special mention that Eleutheroi are neutral all-over in the rules. So, going by the rules, anyone can move their avatar into Eleutheroi territory.

The eleutheroi is a faction. It's a special faction, but it's a faction all the same, so it doesn't need any special mention. The special treatment they get is that declaring war on one of its provinces doesn't put us at war with all the rest. (As well as that strategoi can attack their provinces with private units whenever they want, apparently.)


Another loophole seems to be that, the Chancellor, controlling the diplomats, could theoretically make peace with anyone without consulting the council or Basileos.

For anyone who'd think that such control by the Basileos would be too harsh, let's just remember that this game isn't really made to encourage loyalty and togetherness :devil:

I do agree with this, though. Factional diplomacy should be in complete control of the Basileus and the Council; it doesn't make much sense otherwise. Especially not if the Chancellor can just unilaterally decide to give away the Basileus' provinces without his consent. Imagine if the Chancellor wish to go to war with the Basileus. What's to stop him from signing a peace with one of our enemies in which all of the Basileus' land is given away (except the capital obviously) right before he declares war, so that the Basileus loses recruitment grounds and scraps the income for his army?

[LeoCordis]

Also, I've started a little story (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136108-Stories-Thread&p=2053334836&viewfull=1#post2053334836) on Meleagros' past which I will try to have catch up to current events. Trying to flesh out the character and to perhaps create some motivations for interaction beyond the rules :beam:

Loved the story. Can't wait for the rest of it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If the Basileus forbids entering an Eleutheroi province then players can always turn towards the Chancellor who could declare war on them. This will of course create tensions between the Basileus and the Chancellor but I think that is only good for the game. ~:)

About the diplomacy, propose law that give the power to sign peace treaties to the Council or to the Basileus.

[Myth]

I have a question about army size. Right now only the Polemarchos may lead 16 units in battle. How is the Basileus leading that huge army then? I didn't see anywhere in the rules that the Basileus and/or heir are exempt from this rule.

Also, in effect, without being polemarchos the only other way to get to lead more than 8 units is to have won a ton of victories vs non-brigands?

[Ashurnasirpal II]

The eleutheroi is a faction. It's a special faction, but it's a faction all the same, so it doesn't need any special mention. The special treatment they get is that declaring war on one of its provinces doesn't put us at war with all the rest. (As well as that strategoi can attack their provinces with private units whenever they want, apparently.)

Well, yes, they're a faction. But as far as the rules are concerned, we're always at war with them and there is no mention that they are a 'special' faction. I might be just arguing semantics here, but it is not in the rules and it should be if we are to stick by it. I understand there was a previous game like this one and that might have been the rule there. If we still want to use that rule, then it has to be written, it can't just be assumed.



I do agree with this, though. Factional diplomacy should be in complete control of the Basileus and the Council; it doesn't make much sense otherwise. Especially not if the Chancellor can just unilaterally decide to give away the Basileus' provinces without his consent. Imagine if the Chancellor wish to go to war with the Basileus. What's to stop him from signing a peace with one of our enemies in which all of the Basileus' land is given away (except the capital obviously) right before he declares war, so that the Basileus loses recruitment grounds and scraps the income for his army?

I completely agree. This is just an issue of common sense. Especially for province trading. But I think its fair to say provinces can't be traded without their owner's consent, and the Basileos owns about everything!

Since we're early in the game, I think these two points should just be clarified in the rules section, rather then left to some comments in the OOC thread. It'll help in the long run :yes:



Loved the story. Can't wait for the rest of it.

Thanks :2thumbsup:



I have a question about army size. Right now only the Polemarchos may lead 16 units in battle. How is the Basileus leading that huge army then? I didn't see anywhere in the rules that the Basileus and/or heir are exempt from this rule.

Also, in effect, without being polemarchos the only other way to get to lead more than 8 units is to have won a ton of victories vs non-brigands?

It says he 'owns a royal army' and later describes the royal army as having minimum 12 units. It's not clear, but I assume it means that as long as it is the royal army, the Basileos can simply command anything in it? It could also be made more clear :yes:

[The Celtic Viking]

Well, yes, they're a faction. But as far as the rules are concerned, we're always at war with them and there is no mention that they are a 'special' faction. I might be just arguing semantics here, but it is not in the rules and it should be if we are to stick by it. I understand there was a previous game like this one and that might have been the rule there. If we still want to use that rule, then it has to be written, it can't just be assumed.

You're kind of correct yet incorrect at the same time, I think, if that even makes sense. We can't be at peace with them unless we had modded the files so that we started out that way, and then at our first war we could never sign peace again anyway. To exploit this would not be fair, and in any case, the rule that johnhughthoum quoted does imply that, if he uses any non-private unit, we must declare war on that settlement before he can attack it. This also implies that the enemy status against the eleutheroi faction is not the same as an enemy status against any other faction, as there is no need to declare war on any specific Seleukid settlement (for example) before you can attack it.


If the Basileus forbids entering an Eleutheroi province then players can always turn towards the Chancellor who could declare war on them. This will of course create tensions between the Basileus and the Chancellor but I think that is only good for the game.

This does make the Chancellor's power #7 superfluous though, doesn't it?


(7) Can declare war on any faction who have an army in a Ptolemaioi province.


I have a question about army size. Right now only the Polemarchos may lead 16 units in battle. How is the Basileus leading that huge army then? I didn't see anywhere in the rules that the Basileus and/or heir are exempt from this rule.

The Basileus doesn't have any cap on how many units he can command and is obviously not affected by the powers or penalties of positions that he doesn't hold. Since it's listed as a power it wouldn't affect me even if I was the Polemarchos, because I am also the Basileus, and the Basileus' power is greater. It's kind of like "with a car, you can travel to the end of this continent. But you also have a boat, so you can travel even further!" If it had been a penalty, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd assume that the Basileus' powers would still nullify it, since it is the higher position.

Regardless of that, though, for said reasons none of this is relevant to the current situation, though I'd like confirmation for future reference.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Tbh, it seems as if no one read the rules properly before the game started.

I'll answer shortly to your questions. I'll set up a special thread for talk about the Rules and where you can propose any Rule change during the Council session.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

We can't be at peace with them unless we had modded the files so that we started out that way, and then at our first war we could never sign peace again anyway. To exploit this would not be fair, and in any case, the rule that johnhughthoum quoted does imply that, if he uses any non-private unit, we must declare war on that settlement before he can attack it. This also implies that the enemy status against the eleutheroi faction is not the same as an enemy status against any other faction, as there is no need to declare war on any specific Seleukid settlement (for example) before you can attack it.

I completely agree, except, find that in the rules. It isn't there. My point is: if its a rule, than it should be stipulated so as clearly as possible.


Tbh, it seems as if no one read the rules properly before the game started.

I'll answer shortly to your questions. I'll set up a special thread for talk about the Rules and where you can propose any Rule change during the Council session.

Good idea. I read the rules, but they're not always entirely clear and consistent. We can deduce much of the spirit of the game, but the clear-cut isn't there.

[The Celtic Viking]

I completely agree, except, find that in the rules. It isn't there. My point is: if its a rule, than it should be stipulated so as clearly as possible.

What are you talking about? I just told you where in the rules it is. Here, I'll show you:


Strategoi can attack Eleutheroi settlements with their Private units(and only with them) even if war has not been declared against that settlement.

This says that to attack an Eleutheroi settlement with any non-private unit, it needs a declaration of war first. This means that

a) being at war with the Eleutheroi is not the same thing as being at war against any other faction when it comes to individual settlements

and

b) Eleutheroi settlements are considered at least neutral, since you don't need to declare war against someone you're already at war with.

Now, is this clearly put? No, but this is the only logical interpretation of it that I can see.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Oh sorry I had misread your last post!

[The Celtic Viking]

No problem. ~:)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Aww what?! My trade proceeds have been cut in half!

Rebel armies(Brigands) do not have an effect on sea trade. So, your income is safe at the moment. However, all those who have estates in Alexandreia.. You are in trouble.

[Folgore]

Rebel armies(Brigands) do not have an effect on sea trade. So, your income is safe at the moment. However, all those who have estates in Alexandreia.. You are in trouble.
Really? Because, I checked the trade scroll in Hierosolyma and the income from exports and inports is 150 or so, which is far less than the 275 it was last season.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Really? Because, I checked the trade scroll in Hierosolyma and the income from exports and inports is 150 or so, which is far less than the 275 it was last season.

I meant that Rebels don't have an effect on how I calculate the personal funds. In-game it's another story.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Rebel armies(Brigands) do not have an effect on sea trade. So, your income is safe at the moment. However, all those who have estates in Alexandreia.. You are in trouble.

The rebels are in the Memphis region, though they are closer to Alexandreia.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Damn, then get rid of them! I am the one losing mnai in here! :tongue:

[johnhughthom]

Did you change the values in decsr_strat.txt for the frequency of rebel armies popping up I-K?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Did you change the values in decsr_strat.txt for the frequency of rebel armies popping up I-K?

Unfortunatelly, no.

[GenosseGeneral]

I am sorry for not being active for such a long time, but I think I can participate now again. Am I still in it?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes, you are! Your avatar is still in Alexandreia. Also, he have become very rich as you may notice in the Treasury thread. ~;)

[GenosseGeneral]

Okay, so I just roleplay he got stuck in discussions at the academia and building up his bussiness ;)

[Kogitsune]

awww i dont like the ptolemy's :p

[Ibn-Khaldun]

awww i dont like the ptolemy's :p

We are all imperfect. We can not expect perfect government. -Taft, William Howard

[The Celtic Viking]

If you're not perfect then there's something wrong with you. - Carlin, George

[johnhughthom]

That quote sums up your roleplaying perfectly TCV!

[The Celtic Viking]

Hah! Have you heard the saying, "aim for the sky and you'll hit the tree tops"? Well, aim for perfection and you'll still only hit imperfection, so how could I possibly expect anything less than a more-than-perfect performance from my subjects and still call myself a leader?

[johnhughthom]

What's happening with the turn then? I take it Leo had a battle to fight, then TCV and now we're waiting on Ash to end the turn?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes. Since I don't have the latest save I can not do it myself. Hopefully Ash can end it soon.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I don't have the save either. TCV has it after his last battle.

[LeoCordis]

I didn't PM it. o.O

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, Ash gave the save to Leo who PM'd it to Ash again who then PM'd it to TCV? And TCV haven't PM'd it back to Ash?

[Ashurnasirpal II]

I have it now. Got it back from LeoCordis. I don't know what happened, but it'll be up shortly.

[LeoCordis]

Yep.

It went from Ash to me, to TCV, to me and then I must of screwed up giving it back to Ash.

Also I'm going away from today to Friday evening (GMT). Hopefully it won't effect stuff too much.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yep.

It went from Ash to me, to TCV, to me and then I must of screwed up giving it back to Ash.

Also I'm going away from today to Friday evening (GMT). Hopefully it won't effect stuff too much.

I hope you get back before the Council Session ends. ~:)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I apologize but I can't calculate the private incomes now. I hope Ash doesn't mind extending this turn as long as I come back from work tomorrow(that would be 16 hours from now). :shame:

[Myth]

When you do that, can you also move my two units of cav back into Alexandreia and que the retraining after TCVs unit gets trained?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

of course

[Paul D]

Hello, I came across this, it looks pretty interesting.

I would join, but I am not quite clear on the situations of the campaign, or how to really play this.

Additionally, what are the rules for hiring mercenaries as your character/(sub-faction?)'s retinue? Is it allowed?
I have read the FAQ. Good, it is!

[The Celtic Viking]

Well, you can download the save and just look at it all you want, even if you're not playing yet. Short version: Seleukids have been beaten back to where Antiocheia is under siege by yours truly. Another Council meeting is imminent to decide the future.

As to how you play this, someone will sponsor you, meaning that they will pay for the recruitment of your avatar, i.e. the general that you will be playing as. This means that you will be his client and he your patron until you can pay him the cost of raising your avatar. (See the rules for explanation of the patronage system.) When you have your avatar, you can download the save, move him about, and then make a new save that you upload once you're done with it. There's an (*coughs*) excellent explanation of this in the FAQ already.

As for mercenaries, as long as your private funds are large enough, you can always hire mercenaries.

[Paul D]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'd only about half-read the FAQ when I made that post.

Also, how centralized are things? How Involved do I have to be in the state of affairs of the kingdom as a whole? Will I need to provide feudalism-style levies or bands of armed men for the kingdom at times?

What is the starting private bank for establishing trade ships or estates?

Another set of questions:

1.Can we send our character out on mercenary pick-em-up missions around the Mediterranean, or are we confined to the immediate sphere of influence of the Ptolemaic faction?

2.Also, if I chose to, could I use personal finances to fund building projects in a province that currently does not have any, or do I have to go through central government channels to do this?

3. Is there a possibility to open up more regions to allowing estates (If but for RP, as it seems the current available plots of land are more than adequate)?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, this is embarrassing. A friend, whom I haven't seen for almost 6 years, was in the town and I forgot to take the save. I apologize. :shame: Edit: Paul D, I'll answer you questions when I'm back home(currently at work).

[The Celtic Viking]

I hope I can to act as a placefiller for the moment, then:

1. Technically, you can do that. However, to do so you either have to march around the whole way, or hire a fleet from your own finances, which is very expensive. (You can only teleport your avatar, so if you'd try that you'd leave the mercenaries behind.) Either way, unless you've saved up money for a long time, you're not likely able to afford it, and it's hardly worth it anyway.

2. You can, but you need the permission from the guy who owns the province first.

3. Currently, no, but I think it's an interesting idea, seeing as we're limited to one estate nowadays.

[Ashurnasirpal II]

Well, this is embarrassing. A friend, whom I haven't seen for almost 6 years, was in the town and I forgot to take the save. I apologize. :shame: Edit: Paul D, I'll answer you questions when I'm back home(currently at work).

I find myself having to re-install the whole game because of problems I'm having with mine anyways :wall:

[johnhughthom]

:whip:

[Ashurnasirpal II]

My final Chancellor's report will be up tomorrow once Ibn-Khaldun has fixed the state's money and the Council Session will open. Sorry for the delays on both our parts.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'd only about half-read the FAQ when I made that post.

Also, how centralized are things? How Involved do I have to be in the state of affairs of the kingdom as a whole? Will I need to provide feudalism-style levies or bands of armed men for the kingdom at times?

What is the starting private bank for establishing trade ships or estates?

Another set of questions:

1.Can we send our character out on mercenary pick-em-up missions around the Mediterranean, or are we confined to the immediate sphere of influence of the Ptolemaic faction?

2.Also, if I chose to, could I use personal finances to fund building projects in a province that currently does not have any, or do I have to go through central government channels to do this?

3. Is there a possibility to open up more regions to allowing estates (If but for RP, as it seems the current available plots of land are more than adequate)?


No, you don't have to provide levies or units.

1. What TCV said.

2. Look TCV's post.

3. I'm not so sure. It will mean that who ever becomes the Treasurer have more work to do. Also, you can always start a Player-vs-Player war and take someone elses estate from him. ~;)

[Paul D]

Now why would I go and do something like that? That would rather disrupt the structure of the kingdom during this tumultuous time of war with the hated Seleukids!


So... do i start with personal finances or do I need to find some way to amass them myself?

[LeoCordis]

Finally done the battle of Tarsos is any one is interested.

[The Celtic Viking]

Yes, right, I'll read it in a sec. Reminds me that I need to write down my report as well.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It seems that the next 3 weeks will be extremly busy for me then I have to ask if someone is willing to act as a co-gamemaster?
I was thinking that perhaps TCV could help me out. He is experienced player and should understand the rules the best.
I'll drop by from time to time but my work is takeing most of my free time.

[The Celtic Viking]

Sure, I can fill in for you. People will just have to accept my reign both in and outside of the game. :evilgrin:

[Paul D]

I will be gone tomorrow, next day, and three days from now. I will be back four days from now.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I will now officially announce that The Celtic Viking will replace me as the Game Master until I come back(which would be in the first half of the August).

If you have any game/rule related questions then ask him.

Also, I'll post the last Treasurer report in the morning. If the next player who becomes Treasurer have any questions then send me a PM. I'll try to answer it as soon as possible.

EDIT: Reading the Council thread I see that TCV is also the Treasurer. Hope it's not too much of a work.

EDIT2: Also, as long as I'm away you don't have to calculate Zoarchos' income. Expences and income should be left 0.

EDIT3: And I AM coming back!

[Paul D]

Did i miss my turn, or can i pick up the save and 'ave a go?

[LeoCordis]

Take it.

And there is no 'turns', just say you are taking the save first. :]

[Paul D]

Do I have any starting personal funds?

[The Celtic Viking]

Yes, you start with 3000 mnai, but no income and as yet, no expenditures either.

[Myth]

Does anyone want to take over Alexandros? I'm finding this game is too time consuming for me. There are too many threads and posts to read and one has to keep track of each turn least we miss something, or get skipped for one turn. A regular hotsteat is much less demanding, with just one save per week usually and a convenient PM to notify you of it.

[LeoCordis]

Eugh, I do hate how buggy the phalanxes and how troops deal with routers are in EB and RTW. :[

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah. This reminds me though, if you and johnhoughthom did anything other than occupy the settlements you took, you should let me know how many citizens you displaced/enslaved, so you can get the money to your account. ~:)

[Paul D]

I should hope not, or else you enslaved our own people!

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, that would be slightly... how shall we say? "Inappropriate". :rolleyes:

[LeoCordis]

No, I displaced the population. In EB there is occupying/displacing/enslavement with the latter being the worse. I chose displacement because I imagined there would have to be some sort of punishment for the province being bribed.

And TCV I will have to remember to do that.

[Paul D]

why would you punish the common people for the decision of a treacherous magistrate?

[LeoCordis]

The people went along with it. The whole town is traitorous and dispelling isn't that harsh a punishment. At least they're not slaves.

[The Celtic Viking]

Guys, this is a great argument to be having, but for God's sake, why are you having it OOC instead of roleplaying it IC? It's playing football on a slanted hill full of sharp stones when there's a clean and level field right next to it just waiting to be used. ~;p

[johnhughthom]

Sorry I haven't been active recently, I'll try to catch up today. One thing I noticed is the income, I know it's been mentioned before but naval trading income seems hugely inbalanced. The weakness was supposed to be susceptibility to pirates, two people have had their income cut in half by pirates, but are still making twice my income. Then again estates can be affected by bandits so that argument makes even less sense. Oh, and if Ammonion is my province shouldn't I be receiving it's (meagre) income?

[The Celtic Viking]

I've been thinking about the Ammonion thing, and the reason why I haven't been giving you that income is quite simple. The rules make no mention of allied kings getting income from their settlement, but does refer to the Royal Treasury thread where all ways to increase your personal funds are supposed to be listed. There's no mention of anything it there, either, so I can't be giving it to you. Sorry. If it turns out that you should get it but he just didn't write it down for whatever reason, you will be compensated for it later, but with The Man not being present, I can only go by what I actually have in front of me.

This doesn't really belong here, but since I'm writing to you anyway, I believe I never thanked you for hosting that Crusader Kings game? Well, thanks. It was good fun while it lasted. :bow:

Edit: Oh, and also a little short notice, but we didn't earn twice as much as you even with our income halved. You're forgetting that we still paid the full 750 upkeep, which puts us about 103 money more than those with an estate in Alexandreia (the upkeep of the supervisors) and 6-700 more than you. So it's not quite as big a difference as you make it out to be, though it's certainly something that can be discussed.

[johnhughthom]

That's fair enough, it was more of a general musing anyway, rather than a straight out asking for the cash. :laugh4:


I'm glad you enjoyed Crusader Kings, I can't believe I was so stupid as to delete all my files. I've been working on something similar based on A Song of Ice and Fire, still very much a WIP though.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm going to update the Library in the following days. Also, I gave my thoughts about the Allied Ruler funduings in the other thread.

Edit: The Rules have been changed.

Edit2: Most of the Library is updated. Just need to update the pics as well.

[johnhughthom]

I have been informed by our allies in the Hellenic League that they currently have a military force on the island who have been rather uncomfortably marooned for several years. They have agreed to assist my naval forces in capturing Krete, on the condition that we provide them with transport back to Hellas."

I'm not sure that's allowed, I think it would need to be voted on in council at the very least.

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, I can see two reasons why that's not allowed. Firstly, you may not enter the land of neutral factions without permission from the Basileus, and all Eleutheroi settlements are considered neutral. Secondly, you can't take it upon yourself to speak for another faction.

The first rule is IC so you can technically do it, do you are making yourself an outlaw and subject yourself to due punishment by doing so. The second, however, is not, and simply can't be done.

[Paul D]

I'm not sure that's allowed, I think it would need to be voted on in council at the very least.

I know, I didn't say it is going to magically happen.

Also:

Rule 2.7
Strategoi can attack Eleutheroi settlements with their Private units(and only with them) even if war has not been declared against that settlement.

So it is possible but not allowed based on... where?



Secondly, you can't take it upon yourself to speak for another faction.
.


I'm making an RP excuse for why the game's AI decided to leave the Koinon Hellenon faction leader and 7 units on Krete for no reason (The AI doesn't know how to move soldiers with its fleet competently, so they end up getting stranded. I was just trying to RP a way to "fix" what the flawed game AI did). If I were to besiege and assault the city, the AI Koinon Hellenon army would help me due to the Alliance- But how can I explain that, except by the means I have already used?

If this is some sort of breach in the rules, then I think game admin should use move_character cheat to move him away from there, He's been there since the game started in 272BC and hasn't even attacked Krete. AI just stranded their troops there.

[johnhughthom]

In 1.4: "Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of the Basileus."

I fell foul of the same law myself.

[Paul D]

Whatever, I don't plan on trying to pocket the region anyway.

[The Celtic Viking]

It's a lovely little catch to fall back on, innit? :pleased:

[Paul D]

No, Lysimachos's reason for doing this was to show the effectiveness of having a reformed navy with marine contingents. Given that Krete would at least have a weak reason (it is a Pirate Haven, and Lysimachos favors overseas trade, pirates bad for trade), as opposed to no reason, I decided to go there.

Given my character has the trait "Loyal" I don't think he would be interested in trying to become a petty king or warboss of some outland province.

[The Celtic Viking]

Doesn't matter. He must have the Basileus' permission first, which he hasn't been given, so going there is a criminal action any way you look at it.

[johnhughthom]

Give the poor guy a break, how was he to know how jealously you guard any scrap of power you have in these games TCV? :tongue:

[The Celtic Viking]

:laugh4: Sorry.

Paul, I hope you understand that I'm merely stating fact here, and if I come off offensive (or "overprotective of my powers", as some lesser men might have it) then it's just a failure of my internet communication skills. If you haven't landed there yet, which is how I take it, then you still have time to send the Basileus a message, telling him of your intentions and asking for permission to do it. I have a hunch he might give it to you. ~;)

[Paul D]

But he's already on the boat, and sent the message that he already chose to send, he can't just use his Sale-ular phone and call the king up and ask him.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Basileus Philadelphos Ptolemaios:

"Excellent! Then I shall reinstate him as the commander of the 1st Syrian Army. He may let them retrain and restock in Syria as planned, or he may order them in another direction, as he deems fit.

It should also be recognized that for his efforts to the kingdom and to his king, Leontiskos Thraikikos has now earned the rank of Strategos Hetairos! Let all men of the Council treat him with due respect."

From the Rules:

Strategos Hetairos
Requirements:
(1) Must have won more than 10 battles. Battles against brigands do not count.
(2) Must own an Estate.

If johnhughthom have fought more than 10 battles and they are just not listed in the Battle Reports thread then he may have that Rank. Thogh, in that case, when did he received the Strategos Epilektos rank?

Ignore that. Forgot that john was an Allied ruler for a short time.

Paul D - The game revolves around the communication between players. Whether it's in threads or in private. Without it it's just a big singleplayer campaign.
Also, during that time I think there was a busy naval trade between Alexandreia and Greece. So, it's always a chance to meet some merchant ships that travel in one of those directions. Also, considering the size of your fleet it's always possible to send one of your ships back with urgent messages.

[johnhughthom]

See how much he trusts you to run things TCV? :wink:

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, what have I ever done to deserve such distrust from you, Ibn? :surprised:

[johnhughthom]

Alexandros Thraikikos is an Olympic victor!


What a pity Myth stopped playing, some good rping potential there...

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah. Speaking of which, I think I'll send a PM to those who have disappeared since the first council to see what's what.

[johnhughthom]

Some sort of Activity thread might be an idea, if people are going to be busy for a while they could post that, and perhaps orders for the next few turns. The op could be edited to show current/inactive/on hold players.

[The Celtic Viking]

Well, we kind of have that already, albeit not in one unified thread: you can put orders in your SOT (that's the "O" in SOT ~;)) and if you say you have to go inactive for a while, the Treasury report will grey you out and freeze your account. The library also keeps track on how many Sessions each avatar has taken part in.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

See how much he trusts you to run things TCV? :wink:


Yeah, what have I ever done to deserve such distrust from you, Ibn? :surprised:

It's not my fault! Some want-to-be-king-who-runs-away-when-he-see-the-first-sign-of-trouble never made any other posts to be remembered as a king. :tongue:

About activity. Skullheadhq, GenosseGeneral, Visorslash and strategos roma are close to losing their avatars. Haven't seen them here for awhile.

I'll leave the decision whether to froze their private income or not to TCV.

[The Celtic Viking]

Then I'll freeze them. If they wish to continue playing and have their accounts unfrozen, they can answer my PM or announce it here.

What do you guys think about allowing active players to take over the estates of inactive ones? There are only so many spaces for estates, and 3 out of the Alexandreia slots are being taken up by GenosseGeneral, Alexandros Thraikikos (no player) and VisorSlash. I personally think that if someone's account gets frozen for inactivity, their estate should come up for grabs; it just doesn't make much sense letting people who aren't playing deny those who do the real moneymakers.

Edit: Skullhead answered my PM just two minutes after I posted this. He says he's on vacation and he'll be back in 1-2 weeks, so I'll freeze his account as a legitimate gonee until then, rather than as an inactive.

Edit 2: Visorslash is quitting. Ankhwennefer will probably be killed off as I think he's an RGB, which means that an estate spot in Alexandreia should open up.

[The Celtic Viking]

There is a random phalanx unit hanging around near the Judea/Sinai border, I think it's been there a while.

Yes, I know. It belongs to LeoCordis's Royal Army. He was marching them towards Antiocheia but hasn't taken the save for a while. :shrug:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Hopefully in the end of this week I have enough time to fully participate in this game!

[The Celtic Viking]

Is there no one interested in being Chancellor?

[johnhughthom]

Is there no one interested in being Chancellor?

Sorry, I thought about it, but I don't have the time for it at the moment. I also tried to think up a few edicts or laws, but my character already has a goal and the authority to achieve it so none really made sense.

[The Celtic Viking]

Well, I'm just warning you guys that if I am forced to do it again, then you should expect bad things to start happening. :stare:

[Folgore]

I'm quite content with my current position.

[The Celtic Viking]

Fine, but then you might have to face me stealing another extra year for my term. :clown:

... yes, I did just notice that I accidentally had it one year too long. We could compensate for this by making this term only two years long and pretend as if it had happened correctly, or we could just go along with it. What do you guys think?

[johnhughthom]

To be honest I don't really see the problem with not electing a new chancellor/calling a new Council meeting if everybody is focused on their tasks and happy with how things are going. I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it...

[The Celtic Viking]

I agree, but the rules are what they are (tautologies FTW!). Is there any problem with having it so everyone can propose laws/edicts/rule changes at any time without having to pause the game, and have all the sessions be like emergency sessions in a way? One could still use terms for Chancellorship; for example, one could have a 3 year term as now, and let anyone who wanted to be Chancellor state that he'll be running for Chancellor. Then when the active term is up you put it to a vote (unless only one nominated himself and the acting chancellor pulls out).

This seems reasonable to me at first thought at least.

[johnhughthom]

Voted.


Are you still playing?