The March of Time - A Stainless Steel 6.4 hotseat

[RexLegend]

Bump! phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

apologies, I am aware of this and have scheduled some time this evening to play the turn

[phonicsmonkey]

Rougeman, Cumans are up

Retook Arta, Scopia and Sofia and killed every Swabian I could see, a really good run this turn. I even sunk the whole Swabian fleet, all 13 ships. I left them an escape route but they weren't able to use it...

However I think I left my run a bit late and it looks like Nightbringer is going to win this one unless Central Europe can bite back in short order.

It could be another 2nd place for me....Always the bridesmaid!

[Myth]

No one is winning anything that uses the SS victory conditions without having Jerusalem. And last time I checked, you had control over it.

[Nightbringer]

huh, I haven't even been thinking about victory conditions, I'll have to take a look. If I do need Jerusalem, darn... My hope is that me and you won't have to fight phonics. I'm not really trying to rush to a win though. I like the setup and wouldn't mind letting thins go a bit longer. I am certainly not trying to kill off Swabia and Denmark, although if they refuse to give up I'll have no choice.

[Myth]

You took a strong corner faction and grew it rapidly vs. both AI and human opponents. I'd say if anyone deserves to win, it's you ATM. Though of course, you haven't won yet.

[slysnake]

huh, I haven't even been thinking about victory conditions, I'll have to take a look. If I do need Jerusalem, darn... My hope is that me and you won't have to fight phonics. I'm not really trying to rush to a win though. I like the setup and wouldn't mind letting thins go a bit longer. I am certainly not trying to kill off Swabia and Denmark, although if they refuse to give up I'll have no choice.

Hey, I'm more than happy to drag this stalemate out as long as possible! Same goes for phonicsmonkey to :bow:

Just out of curiosity, Phonics, how were you able to re-take Scopia and Sofia? I'm sure I searched far and wide for your trebuchets and catapults which could be in range, although I was aware of a couple of your spies in the area...

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey, I'm more than happy to drag this stalemate out as long as possible! Same goes for phonicsmonkey to :bow:

Just out of curiosity, Phonics, how were you able to re-take Scopia and Sofia? I'm sure I searched far and wide for your trebuchets and catapults which could be in range, although I was aware of a couple of your spies in the area...

You must not have searched far and wide enough because I could reach both with siege weapons.

EDIT: also i have more spies than you can count. unfortunately I can only use one per turn..

[Nigel]

Rougeman

Gentle reminder, that your turn is due.
Can you play it, or should we look for a sub, or skip your turn this time?

[phonicsmonkey]

Ach he asked me to skip but my Internet connection is down. Can you do it Nigel?

[Rougeman]

was able to solve the issue

Zim

[Nigel]

Ok, Cumans are skipped.

Here is the savegame for England: Zim


Edit :
LOL Rougeman, I should have looked at the new page before posting.
Glad you could do your turns yourself.

Skipped savegame attachment removed to avoid (further) confusion. ~:)

[Zim]

Poland

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10194

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

Nightbringer, moors up!
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21837062/MoT-Moors-T14.sav

[Nightbringer]

lithuania up!
Nigel
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10195


the settlement below Tunis, Antwerp, and Cologne were taken.
Also, the large Sicilian fleet on the north coast of Sicily was defeated and may not move next turn.

[Nigel]

Kiev up, Mithridate.

Grand Duke Jautilas of Lithuania is pressing his claims on Eastern Poland.
Plock and Thorn have been taken.

5849

[Mithridate]

Kwaz

slysnake

[slysnake]

And so this war of attrition continues, with no clear end yet in sight...

Sicily, Myth! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gvl43u

[Nigel]

Myth

A gentle reminder: your turn is up and avaiting to be played.
Can you do it, or should someone sub?

[Myth]

Danes up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10205) @Rex Legend

Sicilly retakes Sofia. Even if we fall, Venice will benefit from our last stand.

[RexLegend]

Fatimids up. (http://www.upload.ee/files/2453751/MoT-15-Fatimids.rar.html) phonicsmonkey

So it is. Poland has one region left as the result of succesful invasion. Last stand of Warszaw. How long it survives, is matter of time. Perharps it's last turn for them now.
Great decisive victories in Northern Britannia. The mighty Dragon Fleet sunk all wandering English Fleets, one of them which contained entire army. Had I not sent reinforcements from Scandinavia, I'd lost grip over Scotland for sure. York has fallen, fort near York fallen. Total amount of three English armies gone.
Antwerp retaken.
Tiresome and weary war continues. Heads up and stay sharp, my allies!

I'm nominating Slysnake as my sub as I'm away until 3rd of July. I'm definitely not able to get my hands on internet. Try not to screw things up sly :)

[slysnake]

Fatimids up. (http://www.upload.ee/files/2453751/MoT-15-Fatimids.rar.html) phonicsmonkey

So it is. Poland has one region left as the result of succesful invasion. Last stand of Warszaw. How long it survives, is matter of time. Perharps it's last turn for them now.
Great decisive victories in Northern Britannia. The mighty Dragon Fleet sunk all wandering English Fleets, one of them which contained entire army. Had I not sent reinforcements from Scandinavia, I'd lost grip over Scotland for sure. York has fallen, fort near York fallen. Total amount of three English armies gone.
Antwerp retaken.
Tiresome and weary war continues. Heads up and stay sharp, my allies!

I'm nominating Slysnake as my sub as I'm away until 3rd of July. I'm definitely not able to get my hands on internet. Try not to screw things up sly :)

Inbox me with your password so I don't forget, it's so weird it's impossible to remember.. >.<

[phonicsmonkey]

Rougeman, cumans are up

retook scopia (becoming a habit), also took tripoli

[slysnake]

Rougeman, cumans are up

retook scopia (becoming a habit), also took tripoli

Scopia is the one just south-west of Sofia, right?

[phonicsmonkey]

yeah, capital of Macedonia

Sofia is full of dirty Sicilians....for the time being

[Myth]

I resent that! All Sicillian knights have bathed at least once since Crhistmass. And this is excluding the fact that all swam their horses trough the Danube.

[Nightbringer]

They bathed, I thought you europeans considered that unhealthy?

[Rougeman]

Zim

[Zim]

Curse you Danish reinforcements!

Sorry for the wait, everyone. I need a quick ruling from Phonics before I can finish my turn.

[Zim]

Antwerp has been retaken and Poland is up.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10211

[Mithridate]

They bathed, I thought you europeans considered that unhealthy?
only most of us, and once the norse bathed quite regularly :P

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

Nightbringer
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21923082/MoT-Moors-T15.sav

[Zim]

Bump

Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

Playing it during that bump :)

Rome and Palermo taken. Additionally, a decent size Danish army was destroyed.
You guys are definitely getting a nice defensive line together up north, things are definitely slowing down for me there.

Poor Sicily is getting hit from both sides at once though.

lithuania up!

er, well, they would be, but my internet is having trouble and I can't get it to finish upload. :(

I'll try again tomorrow morning. Sorry for the wait everyone.

Huzzah! things are fixed.

lithuania!
Nigel
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10217

[Nigel]

6085

Mithridate

Kiev is up!

[Mithridate]

Next slysnake

phonicsmonkey

You continue to violate our terms, we can abide no longer. Kiev and the Fatmids are now at war and one city have already fallen to our might.
Give up Caesara, Constantinople and all towns, cities and castles in between and there shall be peace again.

[slysnake]

Scopia has, once again, has fallen to the mighty forces of Swabia, with its population being culled to prevent the further spread of the dreaded plague in the Balkans.. :shame:

Sicily is up, Myth! http://www.sendspace.com/file/n6wxle

[Mithridate]

lets all agree that spies may not spread plague?

[slysnake]

lets all agree that spies may not spread plague?

Can they?? I thought it was only military units and generals/FM's which could do that...

[Nightbringer]

Can they?? I thought it was only military units and generals/FM's which could do that...

Spies are able to spread plague. As to agreeing that they can't, I don't feel it necessary to specify that. Although it would make a good IC request in the diplomacy thread. A mutual pact to refrain from using biological warfare.

[Myth]

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10223) RexLegend

My reluctance to play eastern factions really hurts me in these massive FFA games. If it's LB and it starts with a ton of provinces and has a strong roster of HAs it's a good faction... Anyway, in more cheerful news, the Fatamid Caliph has been executed.

I have two armies remaining but both are pretty top-notch quality. We'll see how far they can go.

[slysnake]

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10223) RexLegend

My reluctance to play eastern factions really hurts me in these massive FFA games. If it's LB and it starts with a ton of provinces and has a strong roster of HAs it's a good faction... Anyway, in more cheerful news, the Fatamid Caliph has been executed.

I have two armies remaining but both are pretty top-notch quality. We'll see how far they can go.

Hang in there, Myth! :2thumbsup:

[RexLegend]

Fatimids (http://www.upload.ee/files/2508002/MoT-16-Fatimids.rar.html) phonicsmonkey

Supreme season. There are few nice suprises for you guys :)
If there are questions, I'm happy to explain them via PM. Although you'll have to wait til Monday since I'll be leaving to isolated island, full of monsters. :clown:

[RexLegend]

Bump phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

Rougeman, Cumans are up

Retook Scopia, took Durazzo and Syracuse

Mithridate, pfft what a flimsy pretext for making war on me. It was so obvious you were gearing up to attack because you kept asking when our NAP ended and failing to respond to my requests to extend it

I can honestly say I was never planning to go to war with you, but so be it. You'll find it extremely difficult to advance further than the paltry single settlement you've taken.

[slysnake]

Rougeman, Cumans are up

Retook Scopia, took Durazzo and Syracuse

Mithridate, pfft what a flimsy pretext for making war on me. It was so obvious you were gearing up to attack because you kept asking when our NAP ended and failing to respond to my requests to extend it

I can honestly say I was never planning to go to war with you, but so be it. You'll find it extremely difficult to advance further than the paltry single settlement you've taken.

Well, at least now you are fighting on multiple fronts like the rest of us! :bow:

[Mithridate]

Rougeman
Mithridate, pfft what a flimsy pretext for making war on me. It was so obvious you were gearing up to attack because you kept asking when our NAP ended and failing to respond to my requests to extend it

I can honestly say I was never planning to go to war with you, but so be it. You'll find it extremely difficult to advance further than the paltry single settlement you've taken.
In no way flimsy, and i swear i missed the reply on extension even though i would have refused to do so as i was indeed prepping to wage war.
I had to ask about the NAP since i did not want to break it, and indeed it was most obvious^^

But you first broke the original nap, i thought it would be unfair to strike even though i could so we renewed it, this alone was and still is a watertight reason. ( ofc now ive got a few more men in pos, but ive been prepping for a long time ) I had clearly stated you where not allowed in my lands, you took a fort in my lands and stayed there... I wrote to you stating this yet you remained.

So, war it is for good reasons.

[phonicsmonkey]

In no way flimsy, and i swear i missed the reply on extension even though i would have refused to do so as i was indeed prepping to wage war.
I had to ask about the NAP since i did not want to break it, and indeed it was most obvious^^

But you first broke the original nap, i thought it would be unfair to strike even though i could so we renewed it, this alone was and still is a watertight reason. ( ofc now ive got a few more men in pos, but ive been prepping for a long time ) I had clearly stated you where not allowed in my lands, you took a fort in my lands and stayed there... I wrote to you stating this yet you remained.

So, war it is for good reasons.

I didn't get any message from you about that fort. I took it from the Sicilians after asking whether it was ok and getting no reply. i had one unit of spear in there to stop the Sicilians from getting in via my northern border after you were letting them wander freely around in your lands despite the NAP.

Anyway, as I said it was obvious there was no other outcome than you finding a reason to attack me, otherwise why would you have been spending so much money throughout the whole ten turns of our NAP in building up forces on my borders?

I'm not sore about it, just think it's a bit rich to claim I broke the NAP...

[Mithridate]

typing

[Mithridate]

I didn't get any message from you about that fort. I took it from the Sicilians after asking whether it was ok and getting no reply. i had one unit of spear in there to stop the Sicilians from getting in via my northern border after you were letting them wander freely around in your lands despite the NAP.

You sure you got no message? Damn... seems like ive failed to send many messages then, i must investigate to see if i do have good cause to break the nap then.

Edit: You have received no message after regarding that fort?
Then i apologize as a player as ive failed miserably, but out of interest of the faction ill pursue war as it all stands for the factions casus belli

( you violated the nap, then you occupied Kievan lands with that fort violating it again )
Me housing your enemies is arguably a violation, but if id strike them id make them my enemy and i thought i wrote a long message explaining.

The reason im certain to all this is me reloading, i always play my turns twice... i viewed this to be allowed as i reload not to change outcomes but make sure i move optimally. ( i missclick a lot for instance )

[Myth]

Don't use in-game messages for important stuff. They are very unreliable and can be exploited.

[Mithridate]

ill use pm in the future, but the problem here is that i seem to not have sent the messages at all ...
I really dont want my kievans to be viewed as dishonorable and im quite sure the NAP i started with Phonics was made as a player and not ruler...

Damn long ago, and at a time when i did not make notes on my deals

[phonicsmonkey]

Don't sweat it mate, it seems like you were planning to fight me anyway. You don't need a cassus belli in these games anyway, everyone knows to expect a backstab at some point from a neighboring faction who has run out of space for expansion...

[Mithridate]

But i went through so much to make sure it was not a backstabb xD Or thought i did anyway

Very well, we shall meet in glorious battle

[Myth]

I think it's more a matter of - the Fatamids are way too big, half their needed cities are under AI control and that Ai is right next to them, and they have Jerusalem.

[Nigel]

Ha, I think it is good if we (or at least phonics) - as players - think that backstabbing is just part of the game and not "unfair playing".

Equally, it is good that some of us try to play without backstabbing as their personal way of playing.

I think there is no honour lost in these events and it all just adds to the drama of the game that a lost message leads us into this game-conflict. I for one am enjoying the roleplaying of the recent days quite a lot.

:clown:

[RexLegend]

Bump Rougeman

[Rougeman]

played it but forgot to upload it

Zim

[Zim]

Poland

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10230

Played my last 5 or so games on the assumption that spies could only open one set of gates per turn. What a way to find out otherwise. :shrug:

[Mithridate]

Ignore, wrong thread

[Nightbringer]

Poland

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10230

Played my last 5 or so games on the assumption that spies could only open one set of gates per turn. What a way to find out otherwise. :shrug:

Indeed, I too had thought this was how the rules worked.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nup, the random seed is only used for infiltration attempts, not for determining whether the gates open or not. So reloading is not a problem for gates, only infiltrations. So you could only try once act turn to enter a settlement or fort with a spy but once they are inside you can open as many gates as the game will allow you to.

However if everyone has been playing the other way I'm happy to make the rule apply to gate openings too and we'll roll back to Rex' turn.

EDIT: except i'm not the admin anymore so it's really NB's call

[Nightbringer]

Nup, the random seed is only used for infiltration attempts, not for determining whether the gates open or not. So reloading is not a problem for gates, only infiltrations. So you could only try once act turn to enter a settlement or fort with a spy but once they are inside you can open as many gates as the game will allow you to.

However if everyone has been playing the other way I'm happy to make the rule apply to gate openings too and we'll roll back to Rex' turn.

EDIT: except i'm not the admin anymore so it's really NB's call

Because of my personal involvement, and recent status as game admin, I think it would be better for you to make a ruling on this phonics. I know I had thought it was only one gate opening per turn, but it would probably be good to see what the majority thought.

[Mithridate]

Well, the rules are clear its not allowed imho and therefore a demand for replay is fair imho.

If you allow for multiple infiltrations it becomes exponentially hard to counter reloading, allowing already infiltrated spies to open the gates where they are in to then
open gates in another settlement... Id normally allow, but if we want to counter reloading we cannot. sorry, im off to work so its rushed

[phonicsmonkey]

Well, the rules are clear its not allowed imho and therefore a demand for replay is fair imho.

If you allow for multiple infiltrations it becomes exponentially hard to counter reloading, allowing already infiltrated spies to open the gates where they are in to then
open gates in another settlement... Id normally allow, but if we want to counter reloading we cannot. sorry, im off to work so its rushed

I'm not proposing we allow multiple infiltrations. What I'm saying is that once you have spent several turns getting spies in place, one at a time, then if all the gates will open then that's fine.

That's because it won't help you to reload if the gates won't open. Try it for yourself. Whereas you can reload and infiltrate successfully if you failed the first time.

[RexLegend]

I see that my use of tactics have grown into debate.
I must say that these spies I used were city/cities that fell season or more ago (with exception about Nottingham). I gathered spy-cluster into city of mine under illusion that it'll defend myself from Mooric overtake. However, city fell... Something similar counts with fort which had trebuchet near Cologne, however I left this fort untouched before since I was also thinking that there was only one opening attempt per turn until I found myself in quite troublesome dilemma choosing between England and Moors to give hit to. That's why I spoke to phonics first to clarify that it's not probithed. Since it's summer, I'm not fond of playing that turn over again. But if it's needed, so it be. My head is full of possibilities which could happen in future...

[slysnake]

I'm not proposing we allow multiple infiltrations. What I'm saying is that once you have spent several turns getting spies in place, one at a time, then if all the gates will open then that's fine.

That's because it won't help you to reload if the gates won't open. Try it for yourself. Whereas you can reload and infiltrate successfully if you failed the first time.

I agree with phonicsmonkey on this one, although like Nightbringer said, its best to see what the majority wants since that should be the best solution for all of us... :bow:

[phonicsmonkey]

I agree with phonicsmonkey on this one, although like Nightbringer said, its best to see what the majority wants since that should be the best solution for all of us... :bow:

I'm glad you agree because I honestly can't remember whether I've done this to you or not....:laugh4:

[Myth]

Humph, spies. I never used them to open anything in this game. All my majors stacks had trebuchets. They do allow for mobility though. One gate per turn is the way to limit it however, because otherwise it takes 5 turns to place 5 spies via loading and then on the 6th turn (when you are good and ready to make war) you bite off half of your neighbour's kingdom before he can react.

[Nigel]

Well, as I understand it, the rules we have now dont allow you to place 5 spies in 5 turns using reloading, because you have to make the infiltration the first action you do in the turn. So it is really random wether you are successful or not.

My vote would be: keep the rules as they are and go on.
(but of course my own kingdom is not affected by any of this, so I am fine with whatever phonics decides in the end)

[phonicsmonkey]

Well, as I understand it, the rules we have now dont allow you to place 5 spies in 5 turns using reloading, because you have to make the infiltration the first action you do in the turn. So it is really random wether you are successful or not.

This.

You'd have to be ridiculously lucky to get five spies in in consecutive turns under these rules and if you did it would be easily checked.

[Mithridate]

I'm not proposing we allow multiple infiltrations. What I'm saying is that once you have spent several turns getting spies in place, one at a time, then if all the gates will open then that's fine.

That's because it won't help you to reload if the gates won't open. Try it for yourself. Whereas you can reload and infiltrate successfully if you failed the first time.
Agreed, but one spy can open two gates provided he infiltrated one of the settlement previous turn, this is the only thing i disagree with :)

Turn start, settlement x have spy y in it, spy y opens gates then moves to settlement z and opens gates there as well.
This i view as impermissible under set rules at least. that previous infiltrated spies can open gates is completely fair as long as they followed set rules

[Zim]

I'm not too concerned about a rollback even if the consensus was one gate per turn. I've been playing it that way ever since those rules were implemented, and every time I talked about spies with other players the same assumption seemed to apply (even some older conversations with you, Phonics, or so I thought. :clown:), so the sudden "change" (which wasn't really one) surprised me.

I always thought the rule was as much to prevent agent wars like the one in the first Broken Crescent game here involving plague ridden spies as reloads. That said, allowing multiple gate openings in a single turn also creates some reload concerns. An unscrupulous player could easily reload a bunch of infiltrations (who would know? Unless you pm the admin every time you lose more than one settlement) and then capture a ton of provinces in a single turn. If I were creating a game I'd probably want a rule against it. This game, however, already has its rules and I wouldn't push to change it during what appears to be the end game just because someone like me misread the rules. :clown:

[phonicsmonkey]

Agreed, but one spy can open two gates provided he infiltrated one of the settlement previous turn, this is the only thing i disagree with :)

Turn start, settlement x have spy y in it, spy y opens gates then moves to settlement z and opens gates there as well.
This i view as impermissible under set rules at least. that previous infiltrated spies can open gates is completely fair as long as they followed set rules

No he can't because he would have to infiltrate the second settlement before any other actions were taken in that turn. So you couldn't assault a city before your spy tries to infiltrate somewhere.

Spy actions have to be the first thing that happens in the turn, otherwise they are illegal.


An unscrupulous player could easily reload a bunch of infiltrations

Reloading wouldn't help under this ruleset because the spy action is the first thing that happens in the turn. If there is any suspicion, a player will have to be able to substantiate which turn he infiltrated the settlement on and this will be easily tested by the admin loading that turn and trying (as the first thing) to infiltrate with that spy.

[Zim]

Easy to test but when should you be suspicious? Every single time you lose more than one settlement in a turn and don't believe artillery was used?

Anyway, I say just go ahead and continue. We're in the endgame and now everyone is aware so they can all do the same if they wish(although wish I knew some turns back when I had spies in a fair bunch of Danish settlements. :clown:).


Reloading wouldn't help under this ruleset because the spy action is the first thing that happens in the turn. If there is any suspicion, a player will have to be able to substantiate which turn he infiltrated the settlement on and this will be easily tested by the admin loading that turn and trying (as the first thing) to infiltrate with that spy.

[Mithridate]

No he can't because he would have to infiltrate the second settlement before any other actions were taken in that turn. So you couldn't assault a city before your spy tries to infiltrate somewhere.
I phrased with the "only thing i disagree with" i ment to say:

"That i would disagree with" :) Due to explanation given.
But i know we are in agreement Phonics, so i shall say no more^^

The rules are fine as they are, they allow multiple gate openings while not allowing for reloading in spies. All as it should be imho.

[phonicsmonkey]

Zim, sorry if it wasn't clear to begin with mate.

As to when to be suspicious, it's a matter of degree isn't it? If I lost more than a couple of settlements in the same turn to spies I'd probably think something was up?

[Nigel]

Poland

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10230

Played my last 5 or so games on the assumption that spies could only open one set of gates per turn. What a way to find out otherwise. :shrug:

Gaius Octavius Caesar, can you play your turn?
Or perhaps Nightbringer or phonicsmonkey, can you substitute, or should we skip?

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't think anyone can sub because we are all conflicted. I just sent him a reminder and will wait til the end of the day before I skip.

[Nightbringer]

I don't think anyone can sub because we are all conflicted. I just sent him a reminder and will wait til the end of the day before I skip.

Well, me and him have friendly relations, and the same enemies at least in part, so I could maybe do it.

[phonicsmonkey]

Well, me and him have friendly relations, and the same enemies at least in part, so I could maybe do it.

I guess that's be ok. I'm a bit too close to it.

[Nightbringer]

I guess that's be ok. I'm a bit too close to it.

I'll give him a bit more time then sub it.

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok Nightbringer, go for it

[Nightbringer]

Ok Nightbringer, go for it

Yep, done with it and my turn.

The king of Sicily and his whole army were surrounded and slaughtered in their fort in the desert. Naples was taken, as was Genoa and Antwerp (yet again, poor people in Antwerp, sacked every turn).

Other than that, not much of note. The front seems to have devolved into a bit of a stalemate of fort walls.

Lithuania up! Nigel
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10237

[Myth]

Hmm, you have MP bonuses on your generals? I was positve you could not reach that stack from your ships... Anyway with the loss of my last army I hereby resign this game. Good game to all, well played to Nightbringer and Monkey.

NB especially made true on his elaborations from the TFTR interview - taking a strong corner faction and not making mistakes makes one a mighty hard opponent to face.

[phonicsmonkey]

The front seems to have devolved into a bit of a stalemate of fort walls.

Yours too? :laugh4:

Well played Myth! Should have handed over North Africa! Still, where's the fun in that eh?

[Nightbringer]

Hmm, you have MP bonuses on your generals? I was positve you could not reach that stack from your ships... Anyway with the loss of my last army I hereby resign this game. Good game to all, well played to Nightbringer and Monkey.

NB especially made true on his elaborations from the TFTR interview - taking a strong corner faction and not making mistakes makes one a mighty hard opponent to face.

Nah, I just had some trebs in my cities on the coast, so they were just able to make it in. Then my generals could get there without need for MP bonus.

And good game myth!

[Myth]

If I would have gotten England I would have played a very different game. I delayed on purpose and then came Zim and took them from me :shame:

So from that point I decided I would play a faction that has no long-term options and a chance of wining solo, but would allow me to have fun. It was a toss between Sicilly, the TO and I think one more faction. I knew from the time the two Muslim factions asked for my lands, that It'd end up in a massive war, and simply secured allies to take them on when they decide to attack me. No offence guys, but I know both of you as players and I was certain that any naps, alliances and so on would be honoured so long as you didn't run out of juicier targets than human lead Sicilly.

I found you nice scapegoats for the beginning - the ERE (who actually committed Diplomatic Suicide) and France respectfully. Me and Phonics, and later slysnake, ate the ERE alive, and I think the Cumans and Rus also jumped in the fray from the north-east.

Nightbringer kept busy with France until LooseCanon left the game, but Zim's stubborn silence led me to believe they had a deal going on. Furthermore, not him or phonics answered my question of what's gonna happen if I grant all of my African lands to one or the other. So they had sliced the cake up beforehand as well.

I knew this game would turn out like this, but I had fun! Phonics caught one army of mine, or was it two? NB caught that last major one with the expensive knights and so forth. I do hope you suffered horrid casualties at the hands of the AI!

What surprised me was just how massive the Moors had grown. Using the Iberian peninsula and some parts of France, and the starting Moorish regions, gave NB so much cash he swarmed Europe with armies. Granted, England's starting armies were massive (#1 spot I believe) and the Moors and Fatamids started with at least 6-7 stacks each, but still NB's management skills and planning made it possible to take a great starting advantage into a massive lead, where he can stalemate a 3 front war until he makes it a 2 front war :laugh4:

Phonicsmonkey has been distracted lately but he measuredly and cautiously took what he wanted. He now has Jerusalem, and AI K-Shah, and pretty much has this game in the bag. Sure, he may need Rome, or a faction or two eliminated, but unless NB turns on him and they massacre each other in both sea and land, having everyone's victory condition city (Jerusalem) makes for a great advantage. That, and the fact that it's Monkey leading a strong HA faction with the best trade regions on the map.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm sure you won't believe me, but I decided before this game even began that I would honor all agreements and play chivalrously. So I can assure you myth that if you had handed me and NB north Africa as requested (demanded) I would have left you alone for the rest of the game. Not that you were to know that...

I still think NB is going to win this one, he has a few more regions than me and has all his other VCs in hand. Still, I'm encouraged (OOC) by his slower progress in Europe now. Maybe I still have a chance...

[Mithridate]

I too think this belongs to NB, simply lacks opposition

Phonics will have a harder time, but i intend to make it hell ;)
But it seems like ive been repeatedly underestimating my opponents (Wotk2, damn lead battles) , though
i blame a lot of it on the very long turns... I shall make sure to properly scout everything from now on!

[Myth]

Don't be fooled. You see the Moorish armies in full force now and think he's got this, but armies at this stage (for people with 15 recruitment centers) can be made at the tip of a hat. The levante's trade, the cities in Egypt and up the coast, Anatolia and Constantinople, and also most of Greece - that's a lot of money that can make a lot of armies and fleets. NB's best recruitment centers are in Spain and France, and a few castles in Italy and one in Africa.

Phonics's best recruitment centers are deep within his territories - the former CS lands, his home turf, the former Turkush castles. The ERE lands act as a buffer but they too have tremendeous potential once they are converted to Islam. Highly mobile HA stacks defending with spies and hidden trebuchets - I would not relish the chance of being the guy to assault the Fatamids now. Not to mention that Egypt, the CS and the ERE are the factions that start with the best ports - Monkey's fleets will be better and more numerous if he puts his mind to it.

[Mithridate]

I know it all myth, i play the fatmids myself with a third of the world under my direct rule ;) The lead battles will be the main concern for me, as very small forces are enough to bring total death and destruction!

But we are russians, we will be the ones who strikes! Question is, will we be numerous enough to stand his waves of warriors?
Will we be able to hold the black sea?

[Myth]

Check the VCs for Egypt. If they need Constantinople it'd be a good way to keep him from winning if you take it and hold it.

[phonicsmonkey]

Check the VCs for Egypt. If they need Constantinople it'd be a good way to keep him from winning if you take it and hold it.

Time to stop helping my enemies please! And if you think I'd leave Constantinople unguarded after expending so much energy taking it back from the ERE you've got another thing coming.

[Mithridate]

Consider yourself my muse Myth, INSPIRE ME :laugh4:

[Myth]

Ah, a Sicillian knight, reduced to a mere military advisor...

[Mithridate]

Nothing "mere" about that my distant brother, you will have a position of utmost importance and influence in our court!

[Nigel]

Still, from a throne in warm and sunny Sicily to a council seat in snowy Kiev is quite a change.
You will enjoy Mithridate's wodka, though. It is really good.


In any case, Mithridate, your turn is up.

6402

[Mithridate]

Ive been looking forward to this... for better or worse xD

busy atm


Vodka? Mead my friend! furthermore, our realm is large... Crimea is more than warm enough for the Sicilian i would think!
If all goes well, Constantinople will be mine this turn, tho phonics may have noticed me :)



on the turn: Constantinople and a fort taken with spies.
Constantinople i infiltrated first thing this turn by the closest/southernmost spy. then attacked, the fort was infiltrated first thing... 3 turns ago? save named 14 i think but it could be 13. Also killed several Treb units, despite this Targoviste is likely to fall this turn :(

damn me for not taking that fort earlier and getting sieges here!
Next slysnake

[phonicsmonkey]

It's one thing to take a city, quite another to hold it

[slysnake]

Hi guys, could I have an extension till monday please?

[phonicsmonkey]

sure, np

[slysnake]

Now that Myth has thrown in the towel, what happens to all of his regions/armies? And I'm guessing Sicily will be turned AI?

[Nightbringer]

Now that Myth has thrown in the towel, what happens to all of his regions/armies? And I'm guessing Sicily will be turned AI?

He doesn't really have any of either at this point, so... I believe he just has two settlements that will be taken during this turn.

[RexLegend]

Sam could use last resources of Sicily since Sicily comes right after Swabia. Or is such thing against rules? It would be shame to waste such opportunity to use last legion... :P

[Mithridate]

I thinks its perfectly fine as long as its indisputable that the faction is not or have not committed suicide. ( land and financial transfers )

[slysnake]

Sicily... Myth Nightbringer I take it RexLegend can play this one?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/up1k3y

[Myth]

1. Sicilly has no armies at all.
2. Settlements transferred would just be a liability and suicide via settlement transfer is bad practice IMO.
3. The faction is thousands upon thousands in debt so there is no money to give.

[RexLegend]

Did Sicily's turn. Better than skipping or making AI IMO.

I'll finish my turn by tomorrow, I hope. Zim has made smart placements and it seems that NB is recruiting and rallying his armies to borders. I have feeling that Moors are unbeaten and war itself is going to be neverending. Unless another ally of ours is defeated in way as Sicily was.

[Mithridate]

The RUS shall teach the Fatmid a lesson in the anatolia, then we shall aid our brothers!

[RexLegend]

Fatimid's turn (http://www.upload.ee/files/2558186/MoT-17-Fatimids.rar.html) phonicsmonkey

Antwerp retaken again. It's getting rather tedious and such retakings have shrinked the population of once great city to minimal. 'Dis is what war does. :(
I wonder how long time it actually takes until NB or Phonicsmonkey claim victory. C'mon big bullies! Take on someone of your size. :clown:

[Nigel]

The RUS shall teach the Fatmid a lesson in the anatolia, then we shall aid our brothers!

btw, Mithridate, do you have any plans for re-decorating the council chamber in Constantinople, now that the Rus are in control ? The Lithuanian diplomat would be willing to give you a hand replacing those old oriental rugs for something more East-European.

:clown:

[Mithridate]

The city has the plague and fatmid troops are all around, once the city truly has been secured we shall see.

Until then, diplomacy can wait

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry guys I'm going to need an extension
, hope that's ok. Another 24hours should do it...

[Mithridate]

I dont like the sound of that xD

take ur time!

[phonicsmonkey]

Cumans are up, Rougeman

I had to do this really quickly so I hope I didn't make too many mistakes

retook the big C

took Targoviste

[Mithridate]

Knew ud take targoviste -.-' Exterminated?

[phonicsmonkey]

Knew ud take targoviste -.-' Exterminated?

I could tell by the way you renamed it 'a temporary setback'. :laugh4:

Why would anyone exterminate when sacking is so much better? Did you exterminate Constantinople?

[Mithridate]

I tried to, but my men simply refused to get near the plagued inhabitants!
Not sure if they still took the gold or simply hid in the barracks

[phonicsmonkey]

I tried to, but my men simply refused to get near the plagued inhabitants!
Not sure if they still took the gold or simply hid in the barracks

All the best cities are beplagued these days. It's getting so you can't really call yourself world class unless you are also pestilent..

[Rougeman]

Zim

[Zim]

Is it ok if I end up needing an extra half day or so?

[Nightbringer]

its ok by me

[Zim]

Retook a city, although I have a feeling it may be a temporary reclaiming...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10250

Most English armies have scattered to defend their homes. Hoping Denmark's battles this coming turn are fought as it should make for some interesting stories (although I did frontload heavy infantry in all garrisons, just in case).

Is Poland still being subbed?

[Myth]

In SS 6.4 heavy infantry gives way to heavy cav and archers in AR, it's completely the opposite of regular M2TW

[Zim]

Heh. So much for hard earned lessons from ye old hotseats. I suppose I could have just ARed that battle where my small but well balanced force showed even odds against a much smaller Danish army of depleted heavy infantry.

[Myth]

I always AR siege assaults against small armies that contain 2 or more GB units. SS generals are too powerful.

[Zim]

They are quite annoying, although I can concede that the buff makes sense for SP.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nightbringer, are you going to sub Poland again or should I turn it AI?

[Nightbringer]

Nightbringer, are you going to sub Poland again or should I turn it AI?

Sure, I'll do it tonight or possibly tomorrow, along with my own turn.

[Nightbringer]

Well, poland may be going down, but it still has teeth. Kassa captured by it.

As for myself, Genoa, Milan, Pisa, Bari, Brugge, Antwerp, and Staufen (or whatever its called, north of Berne) captured. Although I'm sure a number of them will be taken back.

Lithuania up Nigel
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10253

[RexLegend]

Good, Poland will be gone by the end of sly's turn.

[phonicsmonkey]

Bump Nigel

[Nigel]

Hi Guys,

I will need an extension for another day.
Should be able to upload the next savegame tomorrow evening. Hope that will be ok.

[Nightbringer]

Good, Poland will be gone by the end of sly's turn.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, I don't think he is able to retake it on his turn.

[slysnake]

I wouldn't be too sure about that, I don't think he is able to retake it on his turn.

.... I second that! (me the pessimist :rolleyes:)

[Nightbringer]

Gah, hit the edit button on your post by accident sly, didn't change anything though, I promise!

In any case, we'll see. you are certainly putting on some good pressure against the Moors in the Alps.

[Nigel]

Sorry to keep everyone waiting.
This is not even a very complicated turn for me - I just got lots of stuff ongoing in RL at the moment.
Will definitely be able to upload the savegame later this evening in a couple of hours.

.... hmmm, Moors in the Alps. Are you trying to follow in Hannibal's footsteps?


Edit:

Here it is, finally. Mithridate

6526

[Nightbringer]

.... hmmm, Moors in the Alps. Are you trying to follow in Hannibal's footsteps?



Nah, the invasion is coming by sea, there is just a nice fort war happening in the Alps over its castles.

[RexLegend]

Nah, the invasion is coming by sea, there is just a nice fort war happening in the Alps over its castles.

Just keep your fleets in Southern Seas and leave Northern Seas for me, ok ? ~:)

[Mithridate]

Surprised you had a treb in range Phonics, thought i checked the woods thuroughly and that youd not have enough +movements... may i ask where it was located?

Constantinople retaken, two fatmid forts gone ( u still have the ones close to the river near caesara )
Mostly a standstill atm, we shall see next turn!

slysnake

[phonicsmonkey]

Surprised you had a treb in range Phonics, thought i checked the woods thuroughly and that youd not have enough +movements... may i ask where

In range of which city?

[Mithridate]

U killed one of my forted stacks north of caesara.

[phonicsmonkey]

U killed one of my forted stacks north of caesara.

You didn't check the woods thoroughly enough

[RexLegend]

Damn... slysnake, forgot to tell you that you have turn to do. :brood:

[slysnake]

Will have turn up by tonight, sorry for the delay guys. It's amazing how quickly work can build up, even over the summer! :dizzy2:|

EDIT: Sicily: http://www.sendspace.com/file/kc8625 (either me or RexLegend will play this)

[Nigel]

slysnake or RexLegend, is one of you going to play Scily?
Or should we skip this turn?

[slysnake]

slysnake or RexLegend, is one of you going to play Scily?
Or should we skip this turn?

Should have it up in the next 24 hours or so, some big battles to fight I think...

EDIT: Scandinavia, RexLegend! http://www.sendspace.com/file/m4yims

[RexLegend]

I thought I'd mention that Poland has fallen as expected. One bugger less.
Fatimids lost fort, located west of Adrianople. And took a look on my turn, it looks like it's going to be very long one.

EDIT:
Sorry for delay guys. As I said before, this turn was going to be long one.
Fatimids (http://www.upload.ee/files/2625245/MoT-18-Fatimids.rar.html) phonicsmonkey
Nottingham, Caen and London have fallen. Remains of England are fleeing to Ireland, hoping to put some resistance there.
Bruges, Antwerp, Cologne retaken, Metz sacked and seized. Had top-notch spies inside for a while, had no forces to sack it for quite a while (just clarifying, if NB wants to know). Two forts of Moors are behind lines, we'll see which way they are going to flee. :)

[phonicsmonkey]

slysnake, RexLegend I would usually turn a faction to AI after three turns without a human player. It seems like you are just using Sicily as an extension of yourselves which I don't believe is particularly fair.

Along the same lines I could have subbed the Kwaz indefinitely after silvershield left and used them to crush everyone and win the game for my own faction.

So, I'm switching Sicily to AI and I genuinely think this is the fair thing to do - but I'll of course hear your counterarguments if you have any, and anyone else please feel free to express an opinion.

[Nightbringer]

Switching sicily to the ai certainly makes sense to me at this point, and if there are no objects I will do so on my next turn.

[slysnake]

I don't mind it being switched to AI, the only reason Rex and I started to play it was because it had not been turned to AI in what could have been (and was) a very fruitful turn for Sicily. I do admit it is a bit unfair, so go ahead and turn it AI :bow:

Talking about Kwaz, does that mean that the same rules that apply for interacting with it now also apply for Sicily?

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't mind it being switched to AI, the only reason Rex and I started to play it was because it had not been turned to AI in what could have been (and was) a very fruitful turn for Sicily. I do admit it is a bit unfair, so go ahead and turn it AI :bow:

Talking about Kwaz, does that mean that the same rules that apply for interacting with it now also apply for Sicily?

Usually an AI faction would be fair game for everyone else. I made special rules for the Kwaz because they were huge, I was uniquely placed to benefit and I thought it unfair. I think there are several factions who could take out Sicily so I'm inclined not to apply the same rules, but let me know if you disagree.

Rougeman, Cumans are up

Nightbringer, I already switched Sicily so no need for you to intervene.

[slysnake]

Usually an AI faction would be fair game for everyone else. I made special rules for the Kwaz because they were huge, I was uniquely placed to benefit and I thought it unfair. I think there are several factions who could take out Sicily so I'm inclined not to apply the same rules, but let me know if you disagree.

Rougeman, Cumans are up

Nightbringer, I already switched Sicily so no need for you to intervene.

No, I'm fine with that. It's just that I would have felt bad attacking Sicily's settlements so soon after Myth retired from the game aha :laugh4:

[Nigel]

I totally agree with switching factions of inactive or retired players to AI.

In this particular case it seems somewhat similar to what NB did with Poland - using the armies of an inactive faction to his advantage. Mind you that his move would have made sense for Poland anyway, since they were at war with Sicily, too.

All I am saying is that both had one turn of making use of an inactive/retired faction - so it seems all fair to me.
But yes, good time to switch them to AI now.

[phonicsmonkey]

I totally agree with switching factions of inactive or retired players to AI.

In this particular case it seems somewhat similar to what NB did with Poland - using the armies of an inactive faction to his advantage. Mind you that his move would have made sense for Poland anyway, since they were at war with Sicily, too.

All I am saying is that both had one turn of making use of an inactive/retired faction - so it seems all fair to me.
But yes, good time to switch them to AI now.

Good point Nigel - however with Poland I think we weren't sure if the player was coming back or not...that's usually why I wait three turns in the absence of other information.

[Nigel]

Rougeman

gentle reminder, that your turn is due....


Edit:
One day later, I tried to download the savegame for the Cumans to skip turn.
It seems the zip-file is not downloading correctly.

phonicsmonkey, could you upload it again?
Or even better: skip Cumans and upload the next one in line?

[phonicsmonkey]

Sure, when i get home later

[phonicsmonkey]

All, I'm very sorry to say that, due to admitted and extensive rule breaking in other hotseats, slysnake will not be continuing in this game.

I have asked a neutral party to investigate this game to see if there has been any rule breaking here and whether anyone has been disadvantaged. I'll report back on that.

In the meantime, Swabia will be turned AI.

[Mithridate]

Could not Mith take over?
We need Swabia bad!

[phonicsmonkey]

I have asked a neutral party to investigate this game to see if there has been any rule breaking here and whether anyone has been disadvantaged. I'll report back on that.

In the meantime, Swabia will be turned AI.

We'll know more before the next Swabian turn comes up.

[phonicsmonkey]

Triple post. woohoo

England is up, Zim

[Myth]

Could not Mith take over?
We need Swabia bad!

I could but it would not be fair. We have no way of reliably checking how "broken" the faction is. As a TW player you know how much of a difference a single hex of unit movement can make. Or 100 gold. Or a unit of cav. Now multiply this by an uknown amount - that's how overpowered can Venice be at the moment. Nothing can be taken for granted with this faction. The only way to play it would be to turn 2/3 of it's provinces rebel and disband 2/3 of the stacks. If this was done I'd give it a try.

I will give you more information after our internal discussions are over and after the MoT game has been thoroughly checked for further rule breaking.

[Mithridate]

That serious? Dang...

[Nigel]

Hi guys,

just to let you know that I will be away from the keyboard for about a week now, returning on Monday 10th September.

Have a good week and keep clean and cheerful :smile:
Nigel

[Mithridate]

Ill sub you as always ;) Nigel
Fingers crossed i still have ur PW

[Zim]

Say, just checking in. I know I'm up (and half a day late no less). Is it ok to continue or were we holding while things are resolved?

[phonicsmonkey]

Zim, let's kick on for now

[Mithridate]

Zim, let's kick on for now

Hell yea!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw8wtBdGZkQ
Lets DO THIS!

[Zim]

The foul and Evil Danish Empire continues its relentless march.

Nightbringer
Moors

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=279&id=10269

[Nightbringer]

I must announce that RexLegend will no longer be participating in this game as Denmark. This is because he made use of money cheats to boost Denmark's income.
It has also been discovered that slysnake made use of money cheats in this game as well.Meaning the Venice has been severely boosted as well.

I must now ask the rest of the players. Shall we continue the game?

The cheating that has occurred has surely drastically altered the direction this game has taken.

We could try giving back all the settlements that have taken from others, and turning them ai, but their sudden absence would surely break the balance of power in the game.
It is unlikely to take more than a few turns before I reach the victory conditions against ai opponents only.

So, shall we continue? Or should we move on to new games.

[Myth]

I must announce that RexLegend will no longer be participating in this game as Denmark. This is because he made use of money cheats to boost Denmark's income.
It has also been discovered that slysnake made use of money cheats in this game as well.Meaning the Venice has been severely boosted as well.

I must now ask the rest of the players. Shall we continue the game?

The cheating that has occurred has surely drastically altered the direction this game has taken.

We could try giving back all the settlements that have taken from others, and turning them ai, but their sudden absence would surely break the balance of power in the game.
It is unlikely to take more than a few turns before I reach the victory conditions against ai opponents only.

So, shall we continue? Or should we move on to new games.

Don't you still need Jerusalem to win via Grand Campaign VCs?

I propose reducing Denmark to Scandinavia/Hamburg, culling their armies by 2/3 and giving the faction to the former Norwegian player. Do the same thing with Venice and give it to the Polish player.

[Nightbringer]

Don't you still need Jerusalem to win via Grand Campaign VCs?

I propose reducing Denmark to Scandinavia/Hamburg, culling their armies by 2/3 and giving the faction to the former Norwegian player. Do the same thing with Venice and give it to the Polish player.

No, I don't need Jerusalem. I have met every victory condition except province number, which I was one away from at the end of my last turn.

[Mithridate]

Declare NB the winner and move on i say

I really wanted to beat Phonic in an outright war however, weve hardly even begun :(

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm done with this game. The cheating has left me sick to my stomach and I have no appetite to continue because everything is so messed up.

I think the fairest outcome is a joint victory for me and NB, because I think I've been the most disadvantaged by the cheating, but I'm really past caring now.

[Nightbringer]

I'm done with this game. The cheating has left me sick to my stomach and I have no appetite to continue because everything is so messed up.

I think the fairest outcome is a joint victory for me and NB, because I think I've been the most disadvantaged by the cheating, but I'm really past caring now.

Well, I would say zim and degaura perhaps suffered the worst, with you probably a bit ahead of me.

But I don't see much point in trying to sort everything out.
I do need about 4 provinces now after the last turn of Denmark, but those will come in only a couple of turns, and that will give me a victory by conquest from SS itself.

I would be willing to continue for fun, but as to actual victory conditions it is pretty much a forgone conclusion. phonics and myself are not in competition, we have aided each-other, and we have no reason whatsoever to go against each-other now. It just wouldn't make sense with how we have played this whole game so far. Even if there are no formal allied victory conditions, I think we could let it stand as a gentleman's agreement.

As I said though, I am willing to continue if others want to, although I would prefer to get new games going.

I have an interesting idea for a game where crusades could actually be used. I won't go into much detail, but the concept would be only catholic factions are playable. While restrictive, it would put everyone on equals terms as to crusading, and could really change the game up a lot with everyone trying to stay clean with the pope so as to not be destroyed by a crusade.

[phonicsmonkey]

Well, I would say zim and degaura perhaps suffered the worst, with you probably a bit ahead of me.

Yeah the whole game is now suspect, that's for sure. Everyone who bordered either venice or denmark has been directly or indirectly affected to a larger or smaller degree. It's impossible to know when the cheating started and to what extent it directly affected anyone's chances but from my own experience I was surprised at the continual stream of conveniently strong armies appearing on the balkan front to slow my advance, after my initial invasion was so successful. I just put it down to good preparation on slysnake's part but in hindsight I really think I would have swept him away if he'd been playing fairly.

[Nigel]

Hi guys, I am back to play, but - oh dear - the news in MoT did not get much better.

Seeing what has happened, I would not object to bringing this game to a rapid conclusion. It is like Nightbringer says: with the departure of both the Danish and the Swabian player, a mayor power block has collapsed and now the debris of their empires lie there, ready for the Moors to pick up as easy booty.

The outcome is very predictable now and the only question of any interest is how many provinces Kiev and the Fatimids can still steal from each other or who will hold Constantinople when the final turns ends.

But that’s for Phonicsmonkey and Mithridate to decide if it is worth playing it out. For my part, Lithuania has reached the height of its expansion as much as is reasonable and actually did much better than I could ever hope for in my first game.

So I am happy to play on if that’s what people want to do, but if we can bring this game to a somewhat decent conclusion, that’s fine by me, too.

[Nightbringer]

So just to check again, does anyone oppose calling this game a win for myself and phonicsmonkey?

[Myth]

Nope, and congratulations to you both. You deserved it.

[Nigel]

Congratulations Nightbringer and phonicsmonkey, for a well deserved victory.
You had a good alliance going there, even without ever formally deciding to have one.
And thanks to Mithridate, my adversary who turned into my most reliable partner.

:medievalcheers:

Is anyone doing a "closing write-up" in the in-character thread?
If not, I may have a go at it, when I get the time during next week.

[Nightbringer]

Thanks Nigel, and feel free to have at the in-character write up. I look forward to reading it. And just so you know, me and phonics did have a formal alliance, we just weren't terribly vocal about how closely together we were working. :)