Kingdoms Teutonic HS: Winter is Coming (completed, winner Myth)

[phonicsmonkey]

https://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4607/wis.gif

Hello and welcome to Winter is Coming, a Teutonic campaign hotseat with seven human players as follows:

1. Teutonic Order - Myth
2. Lithuania - phonicsmonkeyRIP - turn 9
3. Novgorod - Zim
4. HRE - Cecil XIX
5. Denmark - Nightbringer
6. Poland - slysnake
7. Norway - Rougeman RIP - turn 10

Everyone needs to complete the modding detailed in the other thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133524-Teutonic-hotseat-signup&p=2053276548&viewfull=1#post2053276548) and then replace their descr_strat with this file (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=8834) before they can play.

Please observe the following rules while playing the game:

Battles may be fought or auto-resolved at the players' discretion.

No reloading the save to create a different outcome.

Each player has 48 hours to complete his turn, post the save game to this thread and alert the next player in line by private message. If the deadline is missed the Admin may skip his faction or he can be subbed by an ally. Extensions will be granted on reasonable request.

Do not recruit General's Bodyguard units. These may only be created by adoption, marriage, natural birth or man of the hour.

Do not attack ships in ports.

Armies boarding ships in ports can't stay there for more than one turn.

Don't leave blockaded ports without beating the blockading ships first.

Do not exploit the naval movement bug (to avoid this always select your navy by clicking on the ship on the campaign map and not by selecting the unit cards.)

Don't stack merchants in armies or forts to get more than one to stand on the same resource (Merchant Fort)

No surrounding armies or agents to destroy them, either by occupying the tiles around the army or agent or by deliberately blocking all exit routes from the province in question. An escape route must always be left for a retreating army, except where that army has arrived by boat and has no contiguous friendly territory to escape into. (Surround & Destroy)

No fighting losing defensive battles on purpose in a besieged city, just to deny the invader the sacking option.

Don't use repeated offers for bribe to increase your faction leader's dread.

Enable "Unlimited men on battlefield" in order to not abuse when leading battles vs the AI.

Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.

In order to assist with the observance of these rules, please post the list of defeated armies in the game thread when uploading the save for the next player.

Ballistas can't open anything, catapults can open wooden walls, trebuchets or better can open anything.

Spies may infiltrate cities to open the gates as well as perform other spying actions but players are limited to one attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else. If a successful spying attempt is questioned by a player the game admin will load the relevant save and attempt the action. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

Assassins are allowed to target anyone except family members but players are limited to one assassination or sabotage attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else OR the second action if they are also attempting a spying action in the same turn. If a successful assassination or sabotage is questioned by a player the game admin will load the relevant save and attempt the assassination. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

No crusades or jihads to be called or joined.

No buildings to be destroyed for cash under any circumstances.

No trading of provinces solely to receive free troops. If you trade provinces, make sure they have no garrison prior to the exchange.

No deliberate deals that would put you in debt above -10,000 florins

No making vassals of AI-controlled factions.

If there are any questions about the rules please ask the admin before playing the turn. In addition to the rules players are requested to abide by the spirit of the game and avoid exploiting the game mechanics on the campaign map to gain an unfair advantage. If a particular action is not specifically banned but is suspected to be an exploit please raise the issue in the thread before proceeding to play the turn. An extension will always be granted in this circumstance.

Please note that there are considered to be no exploits on the battle map. Any and all actions on the battle map are permissible.

The first save for the Teutonic Order is attached to this thread.

[Myth]

I suggest everyone goes to their M2TW main folder, backing up "medieval2.preference.cfg" then changing the line "unlimited_men_on_battlefield = 0" to "unlimited_men_on_battlefield = 1"

This will enable it for vanilla M2TW, the Kingdoms expansions and any mod that doesn't use a custom preferences file. I'll add this to the HS guide as well.

Lithuania up! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/ldm-silk-icons/download.png)

I've also made an image for the game. I can't include all the factions, and the expansion IS named the Teutonics :D

https://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1729/wiss.gif

[phonicsmonkey]

I love it Myth!

But would you mind if I suggested a couple of minor changes?

Would you mind checking the spelling in the top right? also, is there a typeface which you could use that makes the 's' in 'is' look less like an 'f'?

I am most grateful for your wonderful images! (ps. could I be really cheeky and request one for the Britannia game? :beam:)

EDIT: Oh, and Novgorod is up

Open call to anyone other than the TO: I am looking for friends and allies, join with me and wipe the crazy religio-german menace from the earth!

[Myth]

Yes, I saw the typeface was a bit messed up today. I had missed the spelling mistake, but I usually make these images in a hurry so it's common :laugh4: I'll fix them tonight.

Fixed:

https://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4607/wis.gif

[phonicsmonkey]

Great, I put it in the first post and spoilered the others so as not to detract from its glory.

[Zim]

Will have this done asap in the morning.

[Zim]

HRE is up

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9741

[Cecil XIX]

Sorry guys, I'm going to need an extension on this until Saturday. It's crunch time IRL, and unfortunately I can't really go on autopilot for the first turn.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, no problem

[Cecil XIX]

The Danes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9748)

[Nightbringer]

Poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9749

[slysnake]

Norway :)

3257

[Rougeman]

3261

[Myth]

Lithuania (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9755) up.

[phonicsmonkey]

Myth, let's dance

Novgorod is up

[Myth]

Bring it on Monkey! :cool:

[phonicsmonkey]

I realised I left one of the rules out:

- No fighting losing defensive battles on purpose in a besieged city, just to deny the invader the sacking option.

I have amended the first post.

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9767

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark's Turn. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9773)

[slysnake]

Norway 3299

[Rougeman]

3315

[Myth]

Lithuania up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9783)

[phonicsmonkey]

Novgorod

Myth, I had one fort too few at Riga I see. Still, I got my revenge on those guys. Also Hans is dead and his remnants which fled to Palanga cannot move next turn. I took Dunaberg and that village Olysta.

[Myth]

No your forts were fine, they can't stop me from reinforcing my town from the sea however. Wich one was Hans? And which force did you kill, the one that was besieging your fort to the East?

BTW I don't have gold for forts, hence me leaving armies exposed like that...

Also, Dunaberg should have stone walls, do you have a trebuchet to take it with? That stack with your Grand Duke only had a catapult when I scouted it.

[phonicsmonkey]

No your forts were fine, they can't stop me from reinforcing my town from the sea however. Wich one was Hans? And which force did you kill, the one that was besieging your fort to the East?

BTW I don't have gold for forts, hence me leaving armies exposed like that...

Also, Dunaberg should have stone walls, do you have a trebuchet to take it with? That stack with your Grand Duke only had a catapult when I scouted it.

:daisy:

I'm going to need to replay. Sorry everyone.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, here it is for novgorod

[phonicsmonkey]

No your forts were fine, they can't stop me from reinforcing my town from the sea however.

So let me get this straight - you landed your troops on the tile north of Riga (the only one accessible to you) and then hopped them through the city to fight my guys on the other side?

because that single tile is in the red zone of my northernmost fort which I placed there intentionally to stop you doing that, assuming that when you disembarked you'd be stuck there

EDIT: wait, you couldn't have done that because Riga was under siege. did you just fight them off with the small garrison? I'm really confused about how it happened

[Myth]

Well the garrison wasn't as small as you thought, I got 4 units of Christ Knights as a reward for taking some village and they spawned there since that's my capital. However the troops that were on the ship also helped. I merely moved the boat next to the coast, selected all of the units on it and right clicked on the besieging army. They walked right trough everything and attacked them.

I think the M2TW engine allows this to happen (passing trough zones of control if it means attacking an enemy stack). It happened to Zim in EOTA when he was fighting Nightbringer for Osgiliath.

[phonicsmonkey]

However the troops that were on the ship also helped. I merely moved the boat next to the coast, selected all of the units on it and right clicked on the besieging army. They walked right trough everything and attacked them.

I think the M2TW engine allows this to happen (passing trough zones of control if it means attacking an enemy stack). It happened to Zim in EOTA when he was fighting Nightbringer for Osgiliath.

This sucks! 2k on forts and for nothing. You basically walked all the way around besieged riga through three forts' zones of control...

ah well, at least I have javcav to keep me cheerful....they really skewered those christ knights

[Zim]

In EOtTA he was able to pass a single tile next to a rebel town to come at me diagonally. If a TO army actually moved through multiple forts' zone of control that seems to go a bit beyond the pale. Maybe we should avoid it in the future? Seems a little too easy to bypass enemy forts' zone of control.

[phonicsmonkey]

Maybe we should make it a rule that you have to move next to the other army before clicking to attack? That would avoid this wouldn't it?

[Myth]

I don't know, I think the AI does this as well. I give you permission to use the admin pw to give it a try in a few turns. Just move the boat next to the shore, select the stack and right click, let it walk over and initiate combat. I think this can be done whenever a siege is involved. If it's allowed by the engine and the AI does it as well, I don't consider it an exploit but rather a trick one has to know if he is playing hotseats.

edit: I gave it a try now. The stack actually "cuts corners" and goes through the edges of the besieged town. When I try it to just pass by, the stack gets stuck as usual in the first zone of control (ZoC) it encounters. But when it's lifting a siege, the game allows it to ignore ZoCs in order to aid the town. It's weird, but it seems legit. Hell, give it a try now (just don't look at my other positions :clown:) you'll see what I mean.

[phonicsmonkey]

I've never seen the AI walk through forts and you know how much I love forts, I've used them extensively in single player campaigns and hotseats since RTW about seven years ago. I can't imagine this was intentional otherwise what is the point of the zone of control system in the first place? Why would you be able to walk through it in one circumstance but not another?

[Myth]

The AI has relieved sieges vs. me in such a manner...

[phonicsmonkey]

Maybe it only works with sieges? I'll have to test it out sometime.

In my view anything that makes it harder to leave troops in siege is bad for hotseats.

[Rougeman]

Maybe the guards were sleeping?

[Zim]

Or too much early celebration over their impending "victory"? ~:cheers:

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9788

[Cecil XIX]

I've never seen the AI walk through forts and you know how much I love forts, I've used them extensively in single player campaigns and hotseats since RTW about seven years ago. I can't imagine this was intentional otherwise what is the point of the zone of control system in the first place? Why would you be able to walk through it in one circumstance but not another?

This is exactly how Prague got exterminated in 'King of the Romans'. There was one Polish army directly between my chracter, Edmund Becker, and Prague's east gate. There was a second Polish army to the southeast of the first. I thought that because I had to enter the second army's ZoC to attack the first army, attacking the first would bring in the second army as reinforcements. But becase the second army was not adjacent to the first, I could have attacked the first without the second being able to interfere. What made this so confusing was that if the first army hadn't been there, the second army's ZoC would have stopped me dead in my tracks.

Simply put, the presence of the first Polish army directly between Becker and Prague prevented the second polish army's ZoC from stopping me. Fritz von Kastilien (Ramses II CP) tried to warn me, but I couldn't understand it.:wall:

I thought about how this should be fixed, not it will, and I think the solution would be to have all armies adjacent to both attacker and defender participate, not just those adjacent to the defender. Fortunately the system TW games uses now works better in this regard.

EDIT: Whoops, I should have waited until the save was ready. Here you go! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9792)

[Nightbringer]

The people of Norway have made most unreasonable demands upon Norway, claiming the entire North of Scandinavia! Well, this is clearly preposterous and this, combined with implied threats on the friends of Denmark, have forced the King into declaring war no this puny nation!

Or, you know, I just want their land, and that nice castle. XD

Poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9793

[Rougeman]

we felt that war with the danish would start sooner or later, danish hunger for combat is too high for any amount of money we norwegians can pay.

though be warned, if you continue on this warpath you will regret it! us norweigans will give you no ground without lives lost

EDIT: the king asks when he threatened danish allies?

[Nightbringer]

we felt that war with the danish would start sooner or later, danish hunger for combat is too high for any amount of money we norwegians can pay.

though be warned, if you continue on this warpath you will regret it! us norweigans will give you no ground without lives lost

EDIT: the king asks when he threatened danish allies?


When the King discussed the division of HRE lands.

[slysnake]

When the King discussed the division of HRE lands.

IC: My King finds the prospect of the division of Holy Roman lands disturbing and wishes that the bickering between the two Nordic nations in the north can be resolved by peaceful means.

Norway: 3340

[Nightbringer]

IC: My King finds the prospect of the division of Holy Roman lands disturbing and wishes that the bickering between the two Nordic nations in the north can be resolved by peaceful means.

Norway: 3340

The King of Norway attempted to "offer" me your lands, I found this outrageous as we have no intention of taking any land that belongs to the HRE, and it is clear to me that their can be no option but to crush these ungodly barbaric Norwegians!

[slysnake]

The King of Norway attempted to "offer" me your lands, I found this outrageous as we have no intention of taking any land that belongs to the HRE, and it is clear to me that their can be no option but to crush these ungodly barbaric Norwegians!

OOC: Just so you know, I'm Poland, not HRE ;)

[Myth]

Diplomacy aside, sometimes you just have to take someone out. It's neither personal nor very diplomatically sound, but lands and a secure back are vital. I have made the same choice in another game and I'll probably seem like a "bad guy" for doing it but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

[Nightbringer]

OOC: Just so you know, I'm Poland, not HRE ;)

Oh, em, yes, well, you never came up. :)

[Rougeman]

The King of Norway attempted to "offer" me your lands, I found this outrageous as we have no intention of taking any land that belongs to the HRE, and it is clear to me that their can be no option but to crush these ungodly barbaric Norwegians!

This is outragious, i offered you an alliance, in return for the northern half of scandinavia we wouldve helped you in any war, and we assumed you were going to attack HRE.

This is clearly an excuse so others will turn a blind eye in to your actions, well we wont give up without a fight!

oh, and Danish king's ship has been attacked and retreated somewhere to the west, i hope you enjoy sea food.

Teutons up:3341

[Myth]

Lithania up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9801)

Monkey I'll be able to sub the Cumans in WotK on the 2nd of January, since I'm leaving tomorrow. BTW congratulations on your Heroic Victory marker!

[Nightbringer]

This is outragious, i offered you an alliance, in return for the northern half of scandinavia we wouldve helped you in any war, and we assumed you were going to attack HRE.

This is clearly an excuse so others will turn a blind eye in to your actions, well we wont give up without a fight!

oh, and Danish king's ship has been attacked and retreated somewhere to the west, i hope you enjoy sea food.

Teutons up:3341

Luckily sea food is his favorite, as for my justification, all I can say is that the winners shall write the history. (and that you are completely correct about that) :)

[phonicsmonkey]

Novgorod up

well played so far Myth, not sure I can survive this onslaught for much longer

[Myth]

TO vs Lithuania is just imbalanced. I autocalced that siege assault and still came out at a severe advantage.

[Rougeman]

Luckily sea food is his favorite, as for my justification, all I can say is that the winners shall write the history. (and that you are completely correct about that) :)

well then lets make sure i dont lose, yes?

besides, i doubt you can successfully assault our fortress, so i think you should pack up and go back, think about your men

[Nightbringer]

well then lets make sure i dont lose, yes?

besides, i doubt you can successfully assault our fortress, so i think you should pack up and go back, think about your men

I am, they like fighting more than anything else, and the harder the fight the better. You hardly seem like much of a norsemen considering your hope that you will not face me in open battle.

[Rougeman]

I am, they like fighting more than anything else, and the harder the fight the better. You hardly seem like much of a norsemen considering your hope that you will not face me in open battle.

i do fear for your mens safety, i mean, putting them on unstable boats? and fishing boats at that, maybe your successor will have a clearer head,

[slysnake]

Zim?

[slysnake]

Novgorod up

well played so far Myth, not sure I can survive this onslaught for much longer

bump

[slysnake]

bump bump

[phonicsmonkey]

thanks sly you can stop bumping now - I know Zim has the save and will post it as soon as he can, he's been really busy with work

[Zim]

Sorry, I didn't know I was up again. No work excuse. I did a whole lot of nothing the last day, wrongfully satisfied thinking "finally a day off with no saves to worry about". I'll have this done tomorrow.

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9812

[slysnake]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9812

bump!

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9816)

[Nightbringer]

poland!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9820

[slysnake]

Norway! 3359

[Rougeman]

Today is a joyous day, for we have defeated the danish in the seas, but even though this will slow them down, i fear that we cannot hold out for long if an assault is attempted, and that is why i call our ally, the Holy Roman Empire, to help us in defeating these barbarians, and bring peace back to the land!

Edit: 3361

[Myth]

Lithuania up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9821)

[phonicsmonkey]

Novgorod

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9828

[Cecil XIX]

The Holy Roman Empire, taking no heed in the words of an unprovoked aggressor, dutifully agrees with the King of Northern Scandinavia and hereby considers itself at war with the Kingdom of Denmark.

The save. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9830)

[slysnake]

The Holy Roman Empire, taking no heed in the words of an unprovoked aggressor, dutifully agrees with the King of Northern Scandinavia and hereby considers itself at war with the Kingdom of Denmark.

The save. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9830)

The ambassador of the Polish Union sighs.

"If it is a war these treacherous Danes want, then it is a war they shall get! Come next season, the Grand Duke of Poland will have decided whether or not a legion of our Union shall be sent to aid our good allies the Holy Romans and the Norwegians in their joint war against the Danes. The Polish Duke also wishes to make it clear that negotiation is still a possibility on the table."

[Nightbringer]

This is preposterous, the King of Norway was making openly hostile statements towards the Holy Roman Empire, and when we rise up in defense of them they attack us? Well, we shall see how God sees their actions.

One would be wise to take note that never has Norway denied their words against the Holy Roman Empire.

[Nightbringer]

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9831

[slysnake]

Norway 3391

[Rougeman]

3397

The outlying villages have been reclaimed, and more sailors die on the seas!

[Myth]

Lithuania (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9834) up. I have discovered more interesting things about this mod. I'll add them to the guide once the game is over. I also saw a Novgorodian general by the surname of Nevsky with a ton of Boyar's Sons and Kazaks. He has turned rebel. Be careful, loyalty below 4 gives you a fair chance to lose the army, and captain lead armies rebel 1 out of 5 times by my experience.

[slysnake]

bump!

[phonicsmonkey]

I just can't keep up at the moment, sorry

[phonicsmonkey]

Novgorod

The Grand Duke of Lithuania lays slain in the town square at Riga in a desperate attempt to take the city. All the Teutonic footmen lay slain but the pagans didn't have enough heavy troops or javelin to cope with the Teutonic bodyguard units. Even wheeling the catapults into the city square and trying to blast them to atoms failed utterly when the flaming rocks flew just over the heads of the Teutons.

Now Lithuania, crushed under the Teutonic boot heel, has but a short time left on earth.

Curses to my enemies and to those who stood by and watched as tyranny was unleashed upon the innocent.

[Myth]

Nay pagan, 'tis the will of God almighty that you witness here. It is His word that we carry and His law shall be spread over thine heathen lands!

OOC: BTW I completely neglected that you have a catapult with that stack to the north. You killed the cav in the fort so It's natural that you had one but I somehow forgot about it. Since I saw your forces were lacking I thought you couldn't assault the city, I guess I got lucky. Did you manage to get one of the two FMs there?

[Zim]

Novgorod reluctantly fulfills its treaties with Lithuania by helping them against the Teutonic menace, thereby signing our death warrant.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9852

[phonicsmonkey]

OOC: BTW I completely neglected that you have a catapult with that stack to the north. You killed the cav in the fort so It's natural that you had one but I somehow forgot about it. Since I saw your forces were lacking I thought you couldn't assault the city, I guess I got lucky. Did you manage to get one of the two FMs there?

Yeah I killed one of them with pointy sticks right before I routed.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

As the ghost of Lithuanian kings past (and from an alternate reality :P ), I urge all to rise up against the scourge that is the Teutons and wipe their evil breed from the face of the world!!!

[phonicsmonkey]

As the ghost of Lithuanian kings past (and from an alternate reality :P ), I urge all to rise up against the scourge that is the Teutons and wipe their evil breed from the face of the world!!!

Many thanks to you Thanatos for training Myth in the ways of pagan-killing before unleashing him on me.

Seriously though I should have asked you for some tips before I started this game - you did a much better job in FN than I have here!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I was surprised I last as long as I did in that game :) Although most of my success against the Teutons was due to their attention being on poland when I attacked.

[Myth]

Aye. The Achilles heel of the Order are it's starting cities. Having a Poland that will not take the them while you move your troops east is how you ensure success.

I attacked NB as Poland in the last game but I had been playing hotseats for not more than a week when I joined, I had never played this mod and I didn't know NB and Thanatos as players. I just got off on hear-say how Tristan 1v5ed everyone and steamerolled Poland in a couple of turns.

That's all well and good and very much viable in AR with the Order Spearmen being the equivalent of T34 tanks, however good players with crappy AR nations can still put up a fight as was evident. If we make another AR Teutonics game and I get the order for a third time I'll play differently now for sure. Overall though a good player who knows the mod and the factions can really turn the TO into a killing machine. Hence using diplomacy is your best bet of taking them out. None of the factions can 1v1 them at the start.

BTW Zim what did you do to support Lithuania?

[Zim]

Took a settlement and siged another. So no mighty decisive interest (having a large army rebel didn't help on that end. :clown:).


BTW Zim what did you do to support Lithuania?

[Myth]

You took that unwalled village and besieged the castle or the city on the coast?

[Zim]

Unwalled? But I have such lovely catapults. They were christened this turn.


You took that unwalled village and besieged the castle or the city on the coast?

[Myth]

Damn it. How did you get pass my priest scout. And I offered you peace and prosperity too. No one ever wants peace.

[Zim]

Not sure, said army was walled in a fort and not hiding and everything. ~;p

Lithuania's only likely future peace seems to be that of the grave as things are going. Also, a Russia ringed in by the Teutons is one that won't last long. I have little chance now but wouldn't have any further along either. :sweatdrop:

[Myth]

You don't have any castles in your starting lands and I still have huge armies and more production than I can use up. And a trump card.

[Zim]

Exactly why sitting around while you get even bigger would have been worse.

I have all the facilities I need to recruit horsearchers. I doubt waiting to develop my starting castle would have helped much.

At least if I'm steamrolled other factions might sit up and take notice. Down with the Teuton invaders! :charge:


You don't have any castles in your starting lands and I still have huge armies and more production than I can use up. And a trump card.

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9863)

[Nightbringer]

thanks to a relieving force arriving from sea, the German Emperor was captured and executed outside the walls of Hamburg. Perhaps this will teach his successor that Denmark is not to be trifled with. If the HRE wants peace, they may begin making offers now.

Meanwhile, the bankrupt Kingdom of Norway continues to prove troublesome, hiding inside their castle and sending raiding parties to terrorize the nearby villages. But is is no matter, eventually they will have no choice but to surrender.

Also, to the kingdom of Poland, and the lords of the Teutonic order, we hope you will not follow in the rash actions taken by the HRE, we wish only for peace and trade with you southern nations.

Poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9865

[Rougeman]

Posted Double, Ignore

[Rougeman]

thanks to a relieving force arriving from sea, the German Emperor was captured and executed outside the walls of Hamburg. Perhaps this will teach his successor that Denmark is not to be trifled with. If the HRE wants peace, they may begin making offers now.

Meanwhile, the bankrupt Kingdom of Norway continues to prove troublesome, hiding inside their castle and sending raiding parties to terrorize the nearby villages. But is is no matter, eventually they will have no choice but to surrender.

Also, to the kingdom of Poland, and the lords of the Teutonic order, we hope you will not follow in the rash actions taken by the HRE, we wish only for peace and trade with you southern nations.

Poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9865

terrorizing? they were part of our king's domain before you raided us from the sea, and note that the only victories from denmark against norway have been on lightly defended villages, and our king puts his people's freedom before money!

and peace with the southern countries? why would you want my castle for if it isnt to create troops to invade others? it is obvious that all you crave for is war and power.

ill make sure that your king suffers before he dies.

[Nightbringer]

Yes terrorizing, once those people had come over to the good Kingdom of Denmark, there was no need for them to suffer further bloodshed, but now you have subjected them to that, and forced me to subject them to it yet again before this war is over.

It may be true that we are after your lands, but you are ensuring that your former subjects suffer far more than is necessarily.

[Rougeman]

Yes terrorizing, once those people had come over to the good Kingdom of Denmark, there was no need for them to suffer further bloodshed, but now you have subjected them to that, and forced me to subject them to it yet again before this war is over.

It may be true that we are after your lands, but you are ensuring that your former subjects suffer far more than is necessarily.

i never killed any of them, it was your troops and your garrison i killed, all innocent wernt harmed, unlike when i had it garrisoned, your men killed peasents fighting for thier village

and the village would not need to suffer, unless your killing innocents, which is no surprise from a barbarian who craves killing and fighting

EDIT: Good kingdom? this war wouldnt have started in the first place if that is true

[Nightbringer]

i never killed any of them, it was your troops and your garrison i killed, all innocent wernt harmed, unlike when i had it garrisoned, your men killed peasents fighting for thier village

and the village would not need to suffer, unless your killing innocents, which is no surprise from a barbarian who craves killing and fighting

EDIT: Good kingdom? this war wouldnt have started in the first place if that is true

If a man comes at you with pitchfork one must defend them-self. Those peasants had false notions of right and wrong in their heads, and the village is better off without them. No, it is the repeated trauma of battle caused by you that is forcing these people to suffer, not our orderly takeover and cleansing of dangerous individuals.

OOC:
I am just spouting a bunch of #%& for the fun of it, I don't actually think I have any moral high ground here

[Rougeman]

perhaps, perhaps not, but they would not have to fight and die if it were not for your men coming in with axes and swords in a small village without proper weaponry

OOC: i agree, this is fun, almost as fun as waiting for you to siege my castle :tongue:

EDIT: youd think this campaign was more about scandinavia and less about the teutons vs lithuania :laugh2:

[slysnake]

Norway 3457

[Rougeman]

King Hakkon* thanks the danish king for the gold Hakkon* is taking from his ports, and an abandoned fort, Hakkon* likes free forts :yes:

apart from these small unimportant 'victories', it is a stalemate, with the danish troops surrounding the capital with forts, while the danes cant reach the walls without risking battle against norweigians army under Hakkon's* Leadership, hakkon* asks the new Roman emperor to honour the previous emperor by helping thier allies defeat these aggressors

OOC: Peace is still on the table, though you would have to ask hakkon* first :tongue:

*Think its spelt like this :confused:

3462

[Myth]

Lithuania up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9876)

With Novgorod attacking us without provocation we make it known that none of the other Catholic Kingdoms need fear aggression the Holy Teutonic Order. We wish for trade and security and an end to this senseless war between good Catholics.

[phonicsmonkey]

Zugzwang

Novgorod is up

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9881

Two more Teutonic settlements down. It may not last but it feels so good.

Unprovoked? Ha! Very amusing coming from invaders that seek to set themselves up as rulers of the entire region. They seek power with religion as an excuse. We advise the other nations in the region to consider the consequences of the teutonic steamroller spreading their rule all the way east to my humble kingdom. They are already on their way of being unassailable, but will surely reach become invincible if they take Novgorod. And then what? The Mongols to the south are divided and weak. They will be able to continue to grow fat on great cities such as Kiev while "honoring" their supposed offer not to fight the Catholic nations, until they are so powerful none can stand up to them.

[Myth]

This is amusing, coming from the Rus cur who spoke of alliance and now takes our cities and castles. We shall meet you on the battlefield, Nevsky. And do not count on your winters to give us pause.

[Zim]

We signed no treaty and made no agreement, and even spoke at length about our misgivings about your ambitions. Your lack of reply as to who your military order would make war against when the pagans were gone did not go unnoticed, nor your attempt to drive us against one of those catholic fellows you now seek to reassure with your false promises.

[Myth]

We replied in earnest that should we spread Christianity to the pagans we would see to the prosperity and security of our lands, and not seek war with other nations, yours included. Your lies are ill spent Novgorodian, you will be meeting our Lord Jesus Christ soon, best do it with a clear conscience.

[Zim]

You dodged the question at the time, as guilty men often do. I do not believe it is us that have cause to fear meeting our lord and savior with a less than clear conscience.

I see this debate is pointless. We can only meet you on the battle field and hope the righteousness of our cause and strength of our arms leads us to victory.

[Cecil XIX]

The Danes! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9885)

[Myth]

FYI Zim I was really looking to develop my lands a bit, though you attacking me gives me the moral high ground which I always insist on having as per one of Sun Tzu's tenets :laugh4:

[Zim]

Moral high ground? From the guy playing the invaders to these lands?

I needed that laugh. Thanks. ~;)


FYI Zim I was really looking to develop my lands a bit, though you attacking me gives me the moral high ground which I always insist on having as per one of Sun Tzu's tenets :laugh4:

[Nightbringer]

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9887

[Myth]

Dude I never invaded anything you had and I said that once the Mongols and Lithuanians are gone I'll look to developing my lands. You say it's a preemptive strike, yet I've given you no real reason to fear me, except for how quickly Lithuania sunk and the OOC knowledge that the Teutons have great units. You are the first to make aggression after we had signed trade, so yes I do have the moral high ground.

FYI Monkey was the first to attack me and lay siege to my lands as well, though it was pretty obvious I was going to attack him either way.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Dude I never invaded anything you had and I said that once the Mongols and Lithuanians are gone I'll look to developing my lands. You say it's a preemptive strike, yet I've given you no real reason to fear me, except for how quickly Lithuania sunk and the OOC knowledge that the Teutons have great units. You are the first to make aggression after we had signed trade, so yes I do have the moral high ground.

FYI Monkey was the first to attack me and lay siege to my lands as well, though it was pretty obvious I was going to attack him either way.

I think Zim was referring to the fact that the Teutons are historically the invaders of these lands :)

[Myth]

Well he said "guy" and that he needed a laugh, that sounds OOC to me so that's why I replied OOC as well. :clown:

[Zim]

Thanatos has it right, although given your non answer to my concerns that I was next on the list (and the fact that taking both the Mongol and Lithuanian lands would box me in except for the small strip of Denmark's land you encouraged me to take) I think it works on both levels. :smug:

Plus that whole honor agreements with Lithuania thing I have going. I had to do something, although I fear it's too little, too late.


I think Zim was referring to the fact that the Teutons are historically the invaders of these lands :)

[slysnake]

Norway!

3480

[Rougeman]

3489

[Myth]

Lithuania up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9897)

Zim that force lurking in the forest near Dunagberg was discovered by a diligent Teutonic priest. The remnants of said army retreated to Dunaberg but they cannot sally next turn as per the rules.

[phonicsmonkey]

Novgorod

Well I might be speeding up my demise but it's better than sitting at Minsk waiting for you to kill me...

[Myth]

I was waiting for you to starve to death actually, hoping that the army you have will put you in the negatives and that Zim wouldn't be able to finance your endeavor with war already raging between us.

[Zim]

Lending some money to phonics is a pretty good idea.

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9903

[slysnake]

bump!

[Cecil XIX]

Sorry for the delay, everybody! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9910)

[Nightbringer]

Poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9913

[slysnake]

Norway!

3580

[Rougeman]

3632

[Myth]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9921)

3643

Lithuania has been destroyed. Good game to Phonicsmonkey!

[phonicsmonkey]

Well played Myth, I saw the Teutonic steamroller coming but I couldn't get out of the way. Curses to those who promised assistance but never showed up. Go Novgorod!

[Zim]

Only place Novgorod is going is an early grave. :clown:

Funny, didn't even occur to me to try the fort avoidance trick last turn, although I'm not entirely certain how it works. The game always plots a path the long way around forts anyway when I move an army, but I was able to repeat it in a test of the situation in the Third Age game. Something to do with the "protected" army being right next to the fort being bypassed?

Also, lousy Polish assassins.

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9925

[slysnake]

Only place Novgorod is going is an early grave. :clown:

Funny, didn't even occur to me to try the fort avoidance trick last turn, although I'm not entirely certain how it works. The game always plots a path the long way around forts anyway when I move an army, but I was able to repeat it in a test of the situation in the Third Age game. Something to do with the "protected" army being right next to the fort being bypassed?

Also, lousy Polish assassins.

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9925

Hey, I could have easily gone for your faction heir, but the rules restricted me from doing so, so think yourself lucky! XD

[Myth]

Some assassins have been sabotaging my cities to the North. Zim was that you by any chance?

The fort advance thing is paramount in lead battles games, it's the #1 thing one must master if he is to survive. Silver Shield taught me that in GA and Monkey repeated the lesson in WOTK2 (where I was broke, not that I didn't know how to use them by that time) It wouldn't have helped you though since I hauled siege weapons to the front lines to take the wooden Lithuanian towns.

BTW now that Monkey is out of the game I'd say for future reference (and probably add it to the guide if you guys agree) - Lithuania has the following position at the start of the game:

Good:

- Above average income + nice resources
- Starting armies with catapults and NF generals
- Horse Archers aka. the demons of lead battles

Bad:

- In the middle of the map (could be Good if the player is apt in diplomacy and sics some of his neighbors on the TO)
- A combination of woods and towers, both for hiding and revealing enemy hiding armies (but may work to their disadvantage if the towered province is lost and if the woods are not thoroughly scouted with priets)

Ugly:

- 90% of it's starting settlements are wooden (huge drawback)
- Almost no infrastructure and money buildings
- Virtually landlocked
- The TO wants them dead

Based on these as I said, the #1 factor for a Lithuanian player is Diplomacy. That being said, the best strategy to adopt (IMO only) is a defensive one. It's erroneous to think that sitting back will give the TO a significant advantage over what they start with. The fact is, the TO starts with so many armies that it goes broke around turn 3. It always gets a mission to take that one rebel village up North, between TO/Danes/Novgorod (above Dunaberg), and usually gets free Christ Knights or OS (which means yet MORE upkeep to pay). So, the TO is absolutely forced to attack and sack settlements.

Now, Tristan did this vs. Poland but I have my suspicions that the player was not that good (sorry if I offend) and that everyone was caught by surprise of just how strong the TO is in autoresolve (and Tristan knows how to make a good AR stack). Ideally taking Poland's stuff in a blitz unmolested would make the TO virtually unstoppable. However a good player commanding them can put up a significant resistance (see NB in the last game).

Denmark is across the sea, the HRE is past Poland, Norway is on another plane of existence... Novgord is hugging the Eastern edge of the map and the Mongoloids are poor and too far away. So the only safe target left is Lithuania. So a Lithuanian player can basically be 99% certain that the TO will be gunning for him. As such, assaulting first and leaving himself exposed to sallying defenders is bad. Why? Because Lithuania starts with catapults. Sure, the TO does as well, but they still have to move within striking range of the Lithuanian cities. And a garrison equipped with catapults can clear any forted up armies that get within siege weapon range of the border. So now you either bait a lesser TO player to lose his two starting stacks (at which point he would basically be finished) or you play an effective trench war from which Lithuania is going to come better off as it has better income AND this would allow Novgorod, the Mongols or Poland to move their arses and do something.

If the TO player starts sneaking about, he will be forced to hit minor settlements to the south and then will reach one of the two stone-walled Lithianian cities which can become killing fields for any army left overnight. (Note: this only works in a lead battles game naturally. I don't think anyone can beat a capable TO player as Lithuania in an AR game IF the TO focus on them specifically)

That's my analysis anyway.

[Zim]

Any actions of Novgorodan agents would be classified, of course.


Some assassins have been sabotaging my cities to the North. Zim was that you by any chance?

[Myth]

I guess we'll know once Poland's spy turns around to check the area.

[phonicsmonkey]

In general I agree with your analysis Myth, but I'd add and amend the following:



Good:

- Above average income + nice resources
- Starting armies with catapults and NF generals
- Horse Archers aka. the demons of lead battles
- Cheap and plentiful javelin cavalry, extremely effective against BG units and heavy cav in general

Bad:

- In the middle of the map (could be Good if the player is apt in diplomacy and sics some of his neighbors on the TO) [Lithuania only neighbours the TO, Novgorod and Mongols]
- A combination of woods and towers, both for hiding and revealing enemy hiding armies (but may work to their disadvantage if the towered province is lost and if the woods are not thoroughly scouted with priets)

Ugly:

- 90% of it's starting settlements are wooden (huge drawback)
- Almost no infrastructure and money buildings
- Only one siege weapon training facility
- No ability to recruit spies or assassins
- Virtually landlocked
- The TO wants them dead and surrounds them on three sides

As for the following:


That being said, the best strategy to adopt (IMO only) is a defensive one.....
Why? Because Lithuania starts with catapults. Sure, the TO does as well, but they still have to move within striking range of the Lithuanian cities. And a garrison equipped with catapults can clear any forted up armies that get within siege weapon range of the border. So now you either bait a lesser TO player to lose his two starting stacks (at which point he would basically be finished) or you play an effective trench war from which Lithuania is going to come better off as it has better income AND this would allow Novgorod, the Mongols or Poland to move their arses and do something.

I don't fully agree. I think an aggressive strategy on the northern front (where TO has its capital and not much in the way of good starting troops or catapults) is the best option for Lithuania to get some breathing space.

In my attempt I coupled this with a defensive western front, but it's extrememly difficult to play at fort warfare when siege weapons are involved if you are behind in the turn order and can't see the potential movement of your enemies. I lost a major army that way, by trying to apply my own catapult's movement rate to your army which was forted up and (I thought) just out of range of my city. As it turned out your general must have had a movement bonus and was able to get into my city and destroy me.

That was the second key turning point.

The first was when your ship-borne army ignored my carefully placed (and expensive) forts and strolled right through them to kill off my major force which was besieging Riga and would have taken it on the following turn. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that if that hadn't happened I would have stood a decent chance of at least holding out until Novgorod arrived at the scene and then maybe with some luck we could have beaten you. Riga is your capital, would have provided me a decent lick of income and north of 10k in sacking proceeds. Plus, of course I wouldn't have lost my main army.

I don't like to complain which is why I didn't at the time but I think that was an exploit and I'm going to find a way to rule it out in future games.

Overall I think I played this OK but I was perhaps too aggressive in places. I also could have been luckier.

Diplomacy was hard in this game. The Mongols were AI, Novgorod took my side but was too long in getting to the front to help me and Poland, for whatever reason, just decided to side with the TO. The others variously promised or suggested help but nothing ever materialised. There is nothing really that Lithuania can offer them except to frighten them about the TO getting too big. We'll see when this game pans out further whether their decision to abandon me and let you have a free run is a good one or not.

[Myth]

1. I made Riga my capital on turn 1 since it's more profitable, it's not by default.

2. It is placed between Dunaberg and that castle on the edge of the coast, and has the TO's second in command with a halfstack there, and that guy is a 5 star general (IIRC) that has Night Fighter. The only thing it lacks is siege weapons, true, but the boat thing was not of major consequence - the garrison with the 2 GBs could have beaten you I think (I can load to check that particular battle). If nothing else, the TO player can just stack FMs in Riga to make sallies 100% victories as the AI is not nearly as good with jav-cav. Or he can leve that second in command there until the Hochmeister's main army comes. Sure that would probably mean conceding Dunaberg but that's the only province Lithuania can take if the TO decides to keep Riga at all costs. You did get your heroic victory none the less however. I was glad I left my 2nd in command to tend to the city else he would have been dead (instead of causing Zim trouble)

3. The Hochmeister is probably the best general on the map at the start. He indeed has a movement bonus and Night Figher. He also has 6 or so Chiv which makes city booming a viable option for him. And you can always fall back on him if in dire need of a brilliant general. Does the Grand Duke not have +movement as well?

BTW I'm thinking of making a list of the top 10 reasons players lose in hotseats. I'll put "Neglected to scout with priests/spies" at #3 and "Forgot about Night Fighter" at #2 probably.
Neglected to protect his army with forts" a solid #1 IMO. Other gems like forgetting to build rams when sieging, neglecting diplomacy, being backstabbed, losing all your FMs in one battle and having a vital army turn rebel will be there too. Any other suggestons?

[phonicsmonkey]

1. I made Riga my capital on turn 1 since it's more profitable, it's not by default.

Doesn't really matter to my point whether it's the capital or not - it's the best city TO has at the start and losing it would be a blow.


the boat thing was not of major consequence - the garrison with the 2 GBs could have beaten you I think (I can load to check that particular battle).

I think you'll find that when I besieged it in the first place there were only four units of pike there. I think the BGs came later once you reinforced it. Even if they were in there, have a crack at the battle, I think you'll find with all the javelins and arrows from that almost-full-cav stack it would be a very tough battle for 2 BG units.


Does the Grand Duke not have +movement as well?

Yes, but you can see his movement range on your turn whereas I cannot see yours, making it near-impossible to defend a fort line as your Hochmeister advances with catapults. This is why I think your proposed strategy for Lithuania is only part of the solution.

You should give the Liths a go next time instead of taking the safe option!


BTW I'm thinking of making a list of the top 10 reasons players lose in hotseats. I'll put "Neglected to scout with priests/spies" at #3 and "Forgot about Night Fighter" at #2 probably.
Neglected to protect his army with forts" a solid #1 IMO. Other gems like forgetting to build rams when sieging, neglecting diplomacy, being backstabbed, losing all your FMs in one battle and having a vital army turn rebel will be there too. Any other suggestons?

Lol, that's a good list. I'm guilty of forgetting about Night Fighter in two games recently...

"Recruiting in a full city" would be another one. I've lost count of the number of times people have done that and then their enemies have attacked the spare unit sitting next to the city and drawn out the garrison.

[Myth]

Can I see the enemy movement when the general is in a settlement or fort?

Again, that cav stack would not have taken Riga If I had just left the general with his order spearmen and archers inside, so overall attacking Riga made sense this time when I moved away but it doesn't in a general strategy if the TO is prepared IMO. As I said, they get enough armies up north to win any sally vs. Lithuania.

I took the TO for other reasons, not because it's the "safe" option. I will definitely play a different faction later on.

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9930)

[Nightbringer]

Well, I've gone all in. I think my forces should be so far superior to Norways that I can be sure of victory, but I'll see.

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9932

[slysnake]

Well, I've gone all in. I think my forces should be so far superior to Norways that I can be sure of victory, but I'll see.

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9932

Will play my turn tonight...

[slysnake]

Norway!

3777

[Rougeman]

3809

King Sean is trapped in his fortress, and he has sent messages to his allies for any aid which can be sent to save the brave men of Norway!

[phonicsmonkey]

3809

King Sean is trapped in his fortress, and he has sent messages to his allies for any aid which can be sent to save the brave men of Norway!

Don't count on it - we have a non-interventionist group here. Their inaction will bring this game to an inevitable Denmark vs Teuton showdown

[Myth]

Now now, these assumptions are incorrect. I have no plans or desire to fight Nightbringer, In fact I want to give him trade which will boost both our incomes considerably.

Novgorod is up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9948)

[Zim]

Plus, both could probably satisfy their faction's win conditions without ever running into the other. Instead of a fight it might be more of a race against the lesser factions. ~;p

[slysnake]

bump!

[Zim]

Sorry for the wait. I had a sub but he ended up being busy. Will be subbed or played by me within the day.

[Cecil XIX]

Sorry for the wait. I had a sub but he ended up being busy. Will be subbed or played by me within the day.

Make sure you enjoy Valentine's Day Zim, for the sake of us lonely folk. :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry for the wait. I had a sub but he ended up being busy. Will be subbed or played by me within the day.

Thanks for not naming and shaming me MrZ! I had agreed to sub but then realised it was valentines day and I was busy...I'll do it tonight if Zim hasn't played by the time I get home..

[Myth]

I'd have offered to sub but then I saw it's Novgorod we're talking about :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

Subbed - HRE is up

[Cecil XIX]

The Danes. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9952)

[Nightbringer]

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9955

[slysnake]

Teutons!

(I guess this means Norway is dead now? o_0..)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yopu8i

[Nightbringer]

Teutons!

(I guess this means Norway is dead now? o_0..)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yopu8i

Oh, yes Norway is dead. And the Holy Roman Empire is advised to plead for mercy before Denmark is forced to give it the same fate. It should also be warned that if it attempts this ridiculous siege the returning forces from Norway will crush it, so it should turn around now and beg for peace if it wishes to survive.

[Myth]

Novgorod is up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9957)

[Rougeman]

Oh, yes Norway is dead. And the Holy Roman Empire is advised to plead for mercy before Denmark is forced to give it the same fate. It should also be warned that if it attempts this ridiculous siege the returning forces from Norway will crush it, so it should turn around now and beg for peace if it wishes to survive.

since the first turn you declared war i knew i was dead :tongue: my only hope was to ally with you or ally with both hre and poland, and both didnt happen, so yeah :confused:

[phonicsmonkey]

since the first turn you declared war i knew i was dead :tongue: my only hope was to ally with you or ally with both hre and poland, and both didnt happen, so yeah :confused:

I know how you feel!

[Rougeman]

I know how you feel!

indeed, i wouldve sent forces to help you out but i was surrounded so the best i couldve done was a peasant archer and some spear militias, and even then i wouldve had to have the ships to get past the danish ones

[Myth]

Funny how you asked if I needed help with Lithuania.

BTW I think I might try Norway next time. I have a plan in mind on how to make them work.

[Nightbringer]

since the first turn you declared war i knew i was dead :tongue: my only hope was to ally with you or ally with both hre and poland, and both didnt happen, so yeah :confused:

Ya, I think Norway's position is pretty grim without a lot of outside help. I congratulate you on holding out so long though, you really did a good job of controlling the seas which made things much more difficult for me.

[Rougeman]

Funny how you asked if I needed help with Lithuania.

BTW I think I might try Norway next time. I have a plan in mind on how to make them work.

well, i was thinking about trying to get you to help me, and at the time i wasnt at war with denmark


Ya, I think Norway's position is pretty grim without a lot of outside help. I congratulate you on holding out so long though, you really did a good job of controlling the seas which made things much more difficult for me.

i thank you for your kind words, but i made alot of mistakes that sped up the proccess, like capturing the villages, sending the prince out, and not capitalizing on defeating your navy.

Good luck to everyone who are still fighting on :thumbsup:

[Zim]

HRE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9967

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9974)

[slysnake]

bump!

[Nightbringer]

I will get to it tonight, sorry about the delay, I have been swamped with midterms and papers.

[Nightbringer]

poland up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9981

[Mithridate]

Btw, you guys do know there is a mod of "a song of ice and fire" called Westeros:TW

They even have like 6 hotseats going^^

[Myth]

Yes I know it. I have it. I have the submod even. It's not very balanced though. Stannis will just rape everyone with unlimited free 10 star assassin shadows from Mel.

[slysnake]

Teutons!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9h50ot

[Myth]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9984)

Zim phonicsmonkey

Wow, gathering huge armies for one big push against my stone castle? What will that be, two stacks? Two and a half? Jeez...

[slysnake]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9984)

Zim phonicsmonkey

Wow, gathering huge armies for one big push against my stone castle? What will that be, two stacks? Two and a half? Jeez...

May I ask which Stone Castle this is? :P

[phonicsmonkey]

HRE is up

Cecil XIX

[phonicsmonkey]

bump Cecil XIX

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9997) Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

Poland up!
slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9998

[slysnake]

Poland up!
slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9998

Teutons up! Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ht115y

[Myth]

Wow that's bad luck. The only game I'd prefer not to be subbed came out on Friday. I'm at work now and immediately after I'm travelling so there is no way I can play this before Sunday.

If you can't wait let slysnake sub me, though I'd really appreciate an extension. There are a lot of details and things to watch out for and decide on, so I'd rather not delegate them right now.

[Myth]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10010) Zim phonicsmonkey

So, trebuchets are the reason you're so bold. Your move monkey.

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX

HRE is up

[Myth]

phonicsmonkey any conquests worth noting?

[phonicsmonkey]

Myth

A castle, the name escapes me, not Dunaberg

[Myth]

That wooden one that was originally Novgorods'?

[phonicsmonkey]

That wooden one that was originally Novgorods'?

Yeah, that must be it

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10017) Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

poland! slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10020

[slysnake]

Teutons! Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/18fyir

[Myth]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10024)

Zim phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, HRE is up

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, bump!

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10032) Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

slysnake
poland!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10034

[slysnake]

Teutons! Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/h1i6ls

[Myth]

It appears Denmark wants war. Such is the payment when our Order refused to join a war effort that would have eradicated their realm? God shall punish the wicked and we shall be the instrument of this punishment!

[Nightbringer]

It appears Denmark wants war. Such is the payment when our Order refused to join a war effort that would have eradicated their realm? God shall punish the wicked and we shall be the instrument of this punishment!

Does it now?

I would say it seems poland wishes you to believe that. Our intention was to threaten you with a united west so as to force you to end your unjust war against Novgorod. If you are sure we wish war, poland has surely exaggerated our words/

[Myth]

"So then, Novgord keeps silent and arrays armies at our borders and yet you do the same, and you wish us to believe this is all for peace? It also seems that our words are wasted on the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire if you have already achieved a "unified western front".

May we remind you that it is Novgorod who started this war, which is indeed unjust, as they stormed and took Dunaberg and two of our northern cities? By what right do you threaten and bring troops unannounced, like a scheming weasel, and now attempt at parley and bargain on behalf of the aggressor in this war to the east? We are doing God's good work and we shall yield not to the Grand Duke nor to your threats. And if the Kaiser has thrown his dice in this gamble alongside you, then so be it, and God have mercy on you. The Teutonic Order shall show none."

[Nightbringer]

I have brought no troops into your lands, all my forces remain well within my own territory.

Your war with Novgorod may have been technically started by them, but it began when you committed yourself to exterminating their allies the Lithuanians. You never gave them a chance for diplomacy, just as I fear you will never give the nations to your west a chance after you have finished in the East. Why should I believe you will not invade Denmark as soon as Novgorod is dead? True, you have not done so yet, but I believe that is simply because you have been at war elsewhere, and would have attacked if you truly saw gain in it.

I can only be sure that you will not begin offenses if I know Poland, the HRE, and I are all in a position to support each-other. A mutual alliance on our part will prevent you from seeing easy gains, and should ensure relations between us remain good.
I have reached out to Poland because I fear for the safety of my people!

[Myth]

"This is acceptable, fear grips the hearts of men who are not bound by God's zeal. Yet you must remember, that the deceased Lithuanian Duke did not offer parlay nor asked for such. He besieged Riga and fought like a cornered rat until mine own sword parted him from this world and sent his soul to forever roam in Limbo. Likewise Novgorod asks not for peace and is employing similar preventive tactics, even as they have been assured that no Christians, be it even Orthodox, shall come to harm while we do the bidding of His Holiness the Pope.

You must also know, that I shall allow no armies to sail within striking distance of my citadels, and that should you attempt such trickery, war will be inevitable. It is up to the Polish King to decide if he wishes for security in such a way, though attempting extortion of me, a neighbor who has given him only good trade and good will, shall surely harm thine reputation.

What I suspect, is that you have been gathering arms and meeting secretly with the Kaiser, a man whom once I called my sovereign, and once such subterfuge has been brought to light, one cannot easily place trust in your word. This plan to extort a Holy Order, blessed by His Holiness and all the saints, shows you regard not the laws of the Church nor the will of God."

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10038) Nothing interesting this turn. phonicsmonkey

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, HRE is up

Myth, brave Novgradian forces retook Vitesbk

[slysnake]

bump!

[slysnake]

bump...

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark's Turn. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10051)

Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

slysnake
poland!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10055

[slysnake]

Teutons! Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/61kt3b

[Myth]

Are you guys OK with delaying this game until Sunday?

[slysnake]

Are you guys OK with delaying this game until Sunday?

Yep I'm fine with that :)

[Myth]

Thank you all for waiting.

Novgorod is up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10060) phonicsmonkey

I'm unsure as to how you retook that city, the stack with the trebuchet doesn't seem to be able to go there and back in two turns...

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm unsure as to how you retook that city

Good!

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, HRE is up

[Cecil XIX]

The Danes. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10065) Nightbringer

[Nightbringer]

poland!
slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10069

[slysnake]

Teutons! Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/nv7zwu

[Myth]

Novgorod up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10071). phonicsmonkey Zim

Lulled by a false sense of security and distracted with the western front, Novgorod did not pay heed to the catapults we moved in position near Olysta. A third of their entire force lies dead, and the castle has been retaken. Kholm has also fallen to our armies, and two more settlements are under siege.

We are also keeping a close eye on the Danish fleet that is ferrying men back to Scandinavia but shall not attack them unless they sail for the mainland or debark on the island of Visby. We have also noted the lack of response from the unified west. Shall you all ally to keep the order at bay, even as we remove Heretics and do God's good work?

[phonicsmonkey]

Lulled by a false sense of security and distracted with the western front

:laugh4:

More like "trying to squeeze in his subbing duties between cooking dinner and putting the kid to bed..."

Oh dear, sorry Zim!

I really need to pay more attention to these turns...

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, HRE is up

Myth, Zim, I retook Dunaberg, also killed the Hochmeister and his cavalry army. It felt good.

[Myth]

The Hochmeister wasn't that important as a general, did you kill the guy who had a catapult in a fort? Also, I figured that trebuceht would be hiding in the woods but I had already submitted the save... Anyway, good fun! :)

[phonicsmonkey]

The Hochmeister wasn't that important as a general, did you kill the guy who had a catapult in a fort? Also, I figured that trebuceht would be hiding in the woods but I had already submitted the save... Anyway, good fun! :)

Yeah I got the catapult guy too.

The treb wasn't hiding in the woods, I just moved it one fort closer last turn hoping you wouldn't notice. Basically the exact same stunt you pulled on me at Olysta!

[Myth]

I had noticed it gone but I thought it went to recapture that one town with the wooden walls. Ha! This is a fun thing to happen :laugh4:

[phonicsmonkey]

I had noticed it gone but I thought it went to recapture that one town with the wooden walls. Ha! This is a fun thing to happen :laugh4:

Yeah - I really like Novgorod, might play them in a new Teutonic game later.

[Cecil XIX]

Dane's up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10073) Nightbringer

[slysnake]

I'm going on holiday tomorrow for a week - if I am late playing my turn (48 hours) assume I have no internet access, although, apparently, there SHOULD be. In the event I am late playing my turn, I designate Myth as my sub :)

[Nightbringer]

I should be able to play tomorrow.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nightbringer, bump?

[Nightbringer]

sorry, I am trying to work out diplomatic stuff before playing the turn. I will post it tomorrow whether I manage to or not though.

[Nightbringer]

With Teutonic ships threatening the Danish coast, and domination of the region by the order approaching, the Danish king has seen no option but to declare war on the Teutonic order.

Furthermore, he encourages all others in the region who value their survival to do the same. The order may be pledging support and friendship now, but they are clearly on a path to becomes unstoppable. Surely you can see that if they capture all of novgorod, they will turn west for further conquest, into the lands of one of us.


poland up slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10079

[slysnake]

Teutons Myth

http://www.sendspace.com/file/38fmhk

[Myth]

phonicsmonkey Zim Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10085)

NB, you have just signed your own death sentence. Novgorod is all but eliminated, they have one depleted army of note, and that is half full of cav milita. Monkey can't progress further with it and he is bankrupt. This will be a glorious fight, but your two and a half full stacks are not going to be enough. You are not prepared (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p73PZIDQuA).

disclaimer: I have never played WoW actually.

[Nightbringer]

Meh, show me what you got myth boy!
And in reply to your vid, I say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXnuxJPKJSM

In actually, you really think 2 1/2 stacks is all I have? LOL!

Plus, its not like things were going to get better for me if I waited.

[Myth]

You have some milita stacks that are basically draining your treasury. The War Clerics and stuff are what counts. The militas can be routed with one careful charge or hit from a siege weapon's flaming ball.

But it's true that waiting for me to finish off Novgorod and leisurely stroll back to the west coast would have been worse. Then again I might have not attacked you. I'm curious if Cecil is joining this madness. Because, if he isn't, you're going to have to get some miracles on your side! :angel:

No but seriously, I'd have done the same thing probably. The TO has been topping the charts for a good while now.

[Nightbringer]

Exactly, if I waited, I just would have faced you fully prepared, and I KNOW you would have attacked someone.

[Zim]

Cool, I made it back to the game in time to preside over Novgorod's death. Should have this up tomorrow night.

Edit: Sorry I'm late. Easter weekend has been busy, will get this done.

[Zim]

Ran into something odd. My Teutonic folder doesn't have a saves folder. I thought if I started a game up and created a save the folder would appear, but even having made several saves (and checking that I was able to load them from the game menu) there's still no saves folder.

Anyone know what might be causing this, or whether creating one myself would screw things up given that the saves made in game are apparently being stored somewhere?

[Nightbringer]

just make one yourself, it should work. :)

Or it might be saving them in some odd place, and you can try searching for your save files and seeing where they are.

[Myth]

Sounds like Windows 7 UAC shenanigans to me.

[Rougeman]

perhaps its in 'my documents'?

[Zim]

Nothing in my documents, although I did find saves for another game...

Myth Do you know if there's a fix?

The odd thing is that one of the mods I have does have a saves folder (SS), as does MTW2 vanilla, but not the Kingdoms campaigns or other mods.

phonicsmonkey If you want to sub or skip my turn go ahead. I don't want to hold people up while I fix this.

[Nightbringer]

did you try just creating a folder called saves?

[phonicsmonkey]

I seem to remember this happened to me and I had to disable UAC in order to see the saves folder, which was stored not in Programs but in a different directory called Programs(x86) or something, which is where the UAC had created a virtualstore

[slysnake]

bump... just curious if any further progress has been made as to the whereabouts of the mysterious vanishing save-game folder? :)

[phonicsmonkey]

Cecil XIX, HRE is up

not looking good for Novgorod...

[phonicsmonkey]

bump. Cecil XIX

[Cecil XIX]

Denmark. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10104) Nightbringer. Sorry for the delay, everyone.

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry for the delay, everyone.

Cecil XIX, I'll let you off seeing as you are our award-winning GM.

You should change your user title to "King Pozsony RIP" by the way!

[Nightbringer]

poland up!
slysnake
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10105

[slysnake]

Teutons! Myth http://www.sendspace.com/file/7aoz9i

The Polish Grand Duke stands to speak, his face solemn and grave:

"With the recent aggression against my allies the Teutons and requests from both the Danes and Holy Romans to join the war against them, we have been forced to act. I cannot simply stand by and let my ally fall at your land-grabbing hands. You had already positioned armies on my borders in case I declined your request to join the war, but to save you the effort I have already done that for you. Last time I check the Danes and their minuscule navy were last seen scurrying off to the North somewhere whilst the Holy Roman forces who were on my border have now fled south - probably to seek cover in their fortress there. May God side with the best man - good day to you both!"

[Myth]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10111) Zim phonicsmonkey

The Novgorodian Grand Duke and his army have been massacred while camping in a fort.

A unified Teutonic fleet has won the battle versus the formidable dragon boats of the Danes, ultimately sinking the west wing of their navy along with the army aboard it, and scuttling the east wing due north in full retreat. That Danish pirate can't move next turn.

I like how things are turning out so far.

[slysnake]

Novgorod up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=10111) Zim phonicsmonkey

The Novgorodian Grand Duke and his army have been massacred while camping in a fort.

A unified Teutonic fleet has won the battle versus the formidable dragon boats of the Danes, ultimately sinking the west wing of their navy along with the army aboard it, and scuttling the east wing due north in full retreat. That Danish pirate can't move next turn.

I like how things are turning out so far.

Well, you are hardly going to DISLIKE them are you? :D