View Full Version : Secession
Veho Nex
11-13-2012, 17:36
Secession is on the minds of some states today as petitions are filed.
Secession news article. (http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-some-missouri-arkansas-residents-file-petitions-to-secede-from-the-united-states-20121113,0,3426957.story)
Huffington Post article. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/petition-to-secede-states_n_2120410.html)
I think these guys are crying way to hard about who won the seat in the white house. Civil war ala 2012 coming up.
Fisherking
11-13-2012, 18:07
LOL ok, I think the secession of Eastern Washington made it on the ballot once. I don’t think we need to take it seriously until State Legislatures start voting themselves out of the union
Since many of the states where these are filed from couldn't survive without federal funding, I don't see this going anywhere.
Lefties complained and "threatened" to leave the country after the Bush 43 election, so this is just typical of the current climate. The whole "we won/we lost" crap really gets on my nerves though. We are all Americans and we are all getting screwed over by the same people.
If some of the nuts don't want to live in the upcoming godless Sodom that is inevitable with a second Obama term, I can suggest a couple of places they might like. I hear the Middle East is the place to be if you want religious fundamentalism and women as second class citizens. ~D
Yup, I would take this about as seriously as I took various threats by Dems to move to Canada during the Bush 43 years. Good for entertainment value, nothing more.
The only notable thing about secessionists is when politicos flirt with them. This is not taking place (http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpolitics/2012/11/13/rick-perry-texas-secession-petition/1702359/) right now.
Yup, I would take this about as seriously as I took various threats by Dems to move to Canada during the Bush 43 years. Good for entertainment value, nothing more.
Being honest, I would probably have moved to Canada if I was American.
Though Australia is always tempting.
Being honest, I would probably have moved to Canada if I was American...
I doubt it.
gaelic cowboy
11-13-2012, 18:43
I feel like there should be an Onion article in this somewhere but I cant find it.
a completely inoffensive name
11-13-2012, 18:44
Welcome to Obama's America, where our states are bribed against the notions of self determination and STATES RIGHTS.
What did Jefferson say about Stalinism? Oh yeah, WE SHALL HAVE NONE OF IT
Seamus Fermanagh
11-13-2012, 19:21
The Constitution contains a provision/process for joining the USA. There is no process for leaving the union after having joined. The only attempt to do so was squelched by force. Interestingly, the Congress did approve the secession of one part of a single state from the rest of that state....while fighting the war to prevent secession by the states. Bedad but I love history.
Rhyfelwyr
11-13-2012, 19:22
I don't see how these guys can expect to be taken seriously. I guess this is a sad reflection of how polarised American politics is these days.
Why so?
Because it's silly to leave one's home country just because the guy you don't support got elected. Simpler to just wait until his term expires.
HoreTore
11-13-2012, 22:06
Because it's silly to leave one's home country just because the guy you don't support got elected. Simpler to just wait until his term expires.
Jews in 1933 might have a diffrent opinion on that....
Remember that Barack bin Hussein Osama is the Anti-Christ.
Jews in 1933 might have a diffrent opinion on that....
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/GodwinsLaw.jpg
Sarmatian
11-13-2012, 22:29
Bah, this crisis is too small for secession. When you guys get to cca. 15-20% unemployment, then you should get worried.
you know what they say.
if at first you don´t secede, try, try again.
HoreTore
11-13-2012, 23:19
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/GodwinsLaw.jpg
You know as well as I do that no thread concerning Texas is complete without nazis.
HopAlongBunny
11-13-2012, 23:20
They can form a union with Quebec; The Independent Republic of People Who Are Really Really Dissatisfied.
HoreTore
11-13-2012, 23:23
The Independent Republic of People Who Are Really Really Dissatisfied.
Isn't that called a "retirement home"?
You know as well as I do that no thread concerning Texas is complete without nazis.
https://i.imgur.com/Qr1ER.jpg
Strike For The South
11-14-2012, 00:49
The people who are in favor of this are the same kinds of people who can't find their own cock if you had the decency to find their gut for them. All hat, no cattle
a completely inoffensive name
11-14-2012, 01:20
On a serious note, I do think any state (or any region that is more or less unanimously in agreement on the issue) should have the right to secede. However, that is not the case here. At best, you only have an angry minority of wing-nuts clamoring for this, and I doubt they'd even know what to do if they got their wish. :shrug:
States should only be allowed to secede if their petition passes the same rigor that it takes to admit a state into the union.
I hope they do secede. The world map has been way too static for too long... I want more flags and country capitals for pub quizzes. :medievalcheers:
Fisherking
11-14-2012, 08:05
On another note, with all the people who end up on no-fly lists for no particular reason, it would be interesting to see how these on-line partition signers fair the next time they want to travel.
I think I heard that it is up to 40 States now. If it continues the country will consist of Washington DC and P-R when they are admitted…
Gregoshi
11-14-2012, 08:51
Interesting reactions to the same situation from Democrat and Republican nut jobs.
When the evil Republican president is elected, the Democrats want to flee the country. When the evil Democrat president is elected, the Republicans want to carve out their own separate country.
Ironside
11-14-2012, 10:37
Interesting reactions to the same situation from Democrat and Republican nut jobs.
When the evil Republican president is elected, the Democrats want to flee the country. When the evil Democrat president is elected, the Republicans want to carve out their own separate country.
Nah, you had that United States of Canada (I think) and Jesusland maps when the separation jokes were high last time. The Republicans also have the problem of fleeing to what country? The Democrats fits in better in say Canada and most of Europe.
Seamus Fermanagh
11-14-2012, 15:48
Nah, you had that United States of Canada (I think) and Jesusland maps when the separation jokes were high last time. The Republicans also have the problem of fleeing to what country? The Democrats fits in better in say Canada and most of Europe.
Actually, the real fringers are talking secession to "carve out? a country of their own liking or a civil war to take control of the country and establish a different government under a new (actually older and less "interpreted") version of the Constitution.
For those thinking along these lines, I do hope that they recall that, howevermuch the founders may have believed that it was the right of the people to "institute a new government," none of the founders thought that the people could do so without the old government fighting back. The right of the people to "keep and bear arms" was affirmed so as to permit them the possibility of so altering the government -- not to prevent them having to pay the price to effect such a change.
Troubling times:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/texas-struggling-with-life-under-communism-2012111448938
Interestingly, the Congress did approve the secession of one part of a single state from the rest of that state....while fighting the war to prevent secession by the states. Bedad but I love history.
Technically that's not quite true. West Virginia formally seceded from the Union on April 17, 1861, when Virginia left. At that point, West Virginia was still part of Virginia and it was covered by the secession of its parent state. The people of West Virginia then voted themselves a new government, which then went through a formal legislative process to create a new state and then petitioned Congress to be admitted to the Union. As such, Congress never approved the secession of West Virginia, they simply admitted a new state that had formed on its own, as they had done many times before, and have done many times since.
gaelic cowboy
11-14-2012, 22:12
If these States secede though whats the deal with all the treaties with the native american people, could be trouble on the range yet mammy
The Lurker Below
11-15-2012, 04:38
it's entirely believable that all those people with 2 cars in their driveway, their manicured lawns, and their 401ks are about to revolt. watch out!
Major Robert Dump
11-15-2012, 08:25
Texas cannot secede because it would mess up the BIG 12.
Fisherking
11-16-2012, 23:23
Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.
Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.
https://i.imgur.com/q8eRg.jpg
a completely inoffensive name
11-16-2012, 23:48
Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.
If only all those people lived in the same state....
Greyblades
11-17-2012, 04:49
here's hoping it actually is just all bluster and short lived idiocy; while humorous I dont think america undertaking the most hillariously one sided civil war in all history is going to result in anything good.
HoreTore
11-17-2012, 11:19
Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."
I'm curious.
Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?
a completely inoffensive name
11-17-2012, 11:26
I'm curious.
Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?
There is no legal procedure for secession.
HoreTore
11-17-2012, 12:02
There is no legal procedure for secession.
I realize that.
What I'm wondering is whether or not they're using something which has legal weight for other issues...
Fisherking
11-17-2012, 15:27
They are just petitions submitted to the Whitehouse website. There is something about petitions which have more than 120,000 signatures is a 30 day window will get a response.
Who knows what that will be. One option open to the President is to have all these people picked up using the authority of the NDAA and detained indefinitely. That would teach them not to complain too loudly, wouldn’t it.
Greyblades
11-17-2012, 16:44
Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."
And anyone who isnt taking this seriously is horribly underestimating the idiocy of the average redneck.
the average redneck.
I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a 110k or so signed a petition for secession. (I guess they're hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something. Idiotas.)
The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.
Greyblades
11-17-2012, 16:56
I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a mere 20k or so signed a petition for secession. Hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something.
The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.
I dont generally think of every texan as a redneck, just the really stupid rural ones.
Major Robert Dump
11-17-2012, 17:13
I have family on FB actually having an "intellignet" debate on "succetion" vs "nullafacation", and the "consttional" implications of both.
Fisherking
11-17-2012, 17:58
People never cease to amaze me. You know about half the population is below average in intelligence by definition.
Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.
Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.
Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.
Such observations only highlight the ignorance of such world views.
I would tend to agree with the view that these petitions are just to get a reaction.
I am very interested in what that reaction might be. I am also interested in the Administration’s reaction to the legalized weed in two states.
This is supposed to be a liberal or progressive administration, though some of their policies and laws they have supported seem anything but.
If nothing else, it may shed some light on what the next four years will be like.
Montmorency
11-17-2012, 18:13
Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.
Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.
Not "automatically"? After due consideration, then? :clown:
I am very interested in what that reaction might be.
The Texas petition on the White House site has over 110K signatures. It may just receive a stock response from the aide responsible for such things. The response will not contain anything of note - perhaps a few platitudes on resolving justified grievances, building confidence, and the importance of national unity. The few folks who are serious about secession are already under observation, to be sure. This isn't really an important development, politically or as a glimpse into government policy on agitation and seperatism. Do you expect a public threat to be issued, or something?
Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.
My interpretation was that only stupid rural types are covered in his definition of redneck - not necessarily that rural Texans are stupid.
Greyblades
11-17-2012, 19:13
People never cease to amaze me. You know about half the population is below average in intelligence by definition.
Yep, and the people I find rock chewingly dim are, by my definition, stupid.
Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.Yep.
Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.Yep.
Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.
Did I say it was? I believe I said; stupid and rural.
There are a bunch of signatures from people who don't even live in the same state as the petition is for. I don't understand :dizzy2: :laugh4:
Tellos Athenaios
11-17-2012, 23:46
There are a bunch of signatures from people who don't even live in the same state as the petition is for. I don't understand :dizzy2: :laugh4:
Goodbye and good riddance?
Greyblades
11-18-2012, 01:21
Dude. No.
These are not real petitions. They are internet petitions that don't require proof of identity or proof of residence. It is a complete farce, and nothing more than the losing side in an election letting off a little steam.
Yep and I half expect some idiot will take it seriously, attempt to get people to rise up and find some likeminded twits to go get arrested with.
ICantSpellDawg
11-18-2012, 07:15
I've recently read that Abraham Lincoln won 2% of the Southern Vote. We are in a time almost completely different from that one. Am I ok with a dissolution of the United States as it currently exists? I'm amenable to the discussion. Do I believe that we are living in a time anywhere near the polarization of the 1850's? Nope. However, I don't see the reason why the United States cannot allow a devolution of authority in a similar way to the UK is approaching it. So, the Brits are thinking about letting the Scots out of the unification - why? because they are "Scottish", whatever the hell that means? I don't see a reason why States cannot secede if the vast and overwhelming population is no longer interested in staying a part of a nation that they believe has become divorced from their people's aspirations. I don't see why we would have to go to war with a sovereign Texas any more than we have to go to war with a sovereign Canada or Mexico. This time is different from the realpolitikal situation in 1861.
I believe in the fundamentals of the United States, but I have no connection to the patriotism that was exhibited by my grandparents. I am more attached to the ideas than the State. Where the State strengthens those ideals, I support it, where it weakens, I oppose. I would like to see many of those ideas spread around the world. States probably shouldn't be dissolved for frivolous reasons (such as "Scottishness" or "Basqueness"), but the question is - in a free society where an individual has the right to leave an agreement or association, it stands to reason that groups of individuals have the right to leave an agreement or association. Personally, I favor a Federal system with a weak central government. That's where my support can be found.
ICantSpellDawg
11-18-2012, 08:02
That's a bit of a loopy argument. Who decides which ideals and objectives are "serious". Are their objectives dumb? Probably. Does that mean that if the population wants to go off and be dumb that they don't have a right to it? I doubt it. Obviously, if we believe that we have a better way to do things we should proselytize.
ICantSpellDawg
11-18-2012, 17:20
Its not that hard to wrap your head around, actually. Its really, really basic if you respect democratic principles. Is a region united in its desire to be independent? Is that region capable of governing itself? Then let it be so, because nobody has the right to hold a group hostage under a system they don't want to participate in.
You can dress up counter-arguments to that all you like, but self-determination is something that must be taken to its logical extreme, or its not really self-determination. However, as I said before, that is not the case here. Random and unverifiable internet petitions from a non-representative group of unverifiable people is not grounds for secession.
Well I don't argue with that, postings on the internet by random or unverified posters are not responsible or worth much comment. If a State like Texs came forward, as a State after taking a referendum, I would have no opposition to allowing it to become a sovereign state.
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