View Full Version : Seriously, put yourself into my situation and be of any use.
It's pretty simple, a friend wants to commit suicide but wants to kill his farther first. I know why and I would have killed him allready. I am trying to talk him out out of everything he plans to do but he is really smart, much smarter than me and can counter anything I come up with. Should I warn his father who is a horrible person or should I just pretend I never knew. I'm not sure. I am pretty sure my friend is serious, and he is way too intelligent to make social-workers change his mind.
So advice
It's pretty simple, a friend wants to commit suicide but wants to kill his farther first. I know why and I would have killed him allready. I am trying to talk him out out of everything he plans to do but he is really smart, much smarter than me and can counter anything I come up with. Should I warn his father who is a horrible person or should I just pretend I never knew. I'm not sure. I am pretty sure my friend is serious, and he is way too intelligent to make social-workers change his mind.
So advice
What's more important to him, killing his father or killing himself? Whichever you think is more important to him, that's what you need to talk him out of, the other part would fall off on its own.
If it's suicide, then I don't know, take him out to dinner or something, give him a chance to have some fun. That generally puts the suicide ideas on hold.
If it's killing his father, then maybe you can stress that very few people are beyond redemption, no matter how bad they've been.
This is just to buy you some time. In the meantime, you might wanna contact the authorities, this guy needs serious help.
Papewaio
10-07-2015, 13:24
You've just posted prior knowledge on a website. It's like sending nude photos to a girlfriend over the net. Consider what you wrote a postcard.
So you have prior knowledge of an attempted murder/suicide and possibly will be the only one left standing between your friend and his father.
Guess who is now an accessory to the issue and won't be able to plead mental illness unlike your friend.
In other words you now either go to the authorities or hope he doesn't do it or that somehow this website doesn't get recorded by your local law enforcement. Because it isn't likely that a website that has games that have keywords like invasion, Middle East, crusades and Jihad would flag any law enforcement agencies spiders.
rory_20_uk
10-07-2015, 13:28
Yup. Flag it to the pigs and get some body armour.
~:smoking:
Call the police and do nothing else, as you can't know how your "delay tactics" will influence a mentally unstable person.
Remember that the importance of human life means a high level of responsibility.
Gilrandir
10-07-2015, 14:37
To give a better advice people here will need more input information, like the reasons why your friend wants to do what he says he will.
Hooahguy
10-07-2015, 14:42
As Papewaio said, if he actually did carry out the murder and named you in any way that you had prior knowledge and failed to notify authorities, you would be charged with an accessory to murder. At least in the US you would be. It probably works differently in the Netherlands. Either way, I would highly suggest you notify the authorities.
I can get away with all that, I want to help a friend I don't know how to. Signalling in authorities is not an option, it would do more harm than good, they are all hihi-schoolgirls without a clue, he learned how to play Chopin's entire collection when he was 8, there is nothing on offer
Gilrandir
10-07-2015, 15:04
I can get away with all that, I want to help a friend I don't know how to. Signalling in authorities is not an option, it would do more harm than good, they are all hihi-schoolgirls without a clue
Again, more information is necessary.
Greyblades
10-07-2015, 15:05
Fragony for the love of god call the authorities.
Handling a patricidal-suicidal teenager is far beyond anyone on this forum's expertise, he needs professional help not the dubious advice of anonymous internet forum-ites.
AE Bravo
10-07-2015, 15:09
:(
I think maybe try talking him out of suicide first, and if he reconsiders that than he probably will think twice about ruining his life in any way by committing the act. If not convinced just call the cops or else I don't think you'll be able to live with yourself.
Good luck dawg.
Gilrandir
10-07-2015, 16:22
What is the way he is going to kill his father and himself? I bet it is a gun. Try to get the weapon out of his reach or him away from the place where the weapon is.
You are witness to someone wanting to commit a murder and as Pape said, it's already on the internet. Whether you believe that the police or social workers can talk him out of it is irrelevant, you need to call the police ASAP unless you feel like going to jail for doing nothing. If you notify them and they fail to stop it then it is their fault, if you never say anything it is your fault. And that's both from the law and a moral perspective. How intelligent your friend is is irrelevant, if he has the "better arguments" towards a social worker for why he should murder his father, he will probably still get locked up until he moves away from that idea.
It's nice that you tried to talk him out of it, but now that that has failed, call someone who knows more about this. The police and social workers can also involve psychologists who are about as clever as your friend and have probably dealt with similar situations before, stop pretending that your friend is "too clever for everyone", that's just a dangerous excuse for inaction.
Contact your local mental health provider or your local police department as soon as possible and say how high the risk is.
Also, your friend has not done anything illegal yet. He has not carried out any plans or made any threats, so having services involved will not affect his standing. But it will help him get the support he needs.
Again, more information is necessary.
Not really, all you need to know is that I am seriously concerned. I do not know what to do. He is no idiot he is a highly intelligent piane maestro, I am incredibly dumb compared to him,
If he's actually serious and this isn't a cryl for attention then just call the cops mate. You don't want to try to stop him, fail, and then regret it for the rest of your life.
Not really, all you need to know is that I am seriously concerned. I do not know what to do. He is no idiot he is a highly intelligent piane maestro, I am incredibly dumb compared to him,
Fragony, it's not like you have a choice, either morally or selfishly.
From a moral perspective, even if his father regularly absued him sexually, murdering him and then committing suicide is not the right way to handle it.
Cynically, if the police somehow learns from him, the thread or any other source that you were aware of his plans, then definitely expect to be charged with accessory to murder.
In fact, prhases like "I would have killed him already" will encourage an ambitious prosecutor to raise his goals.
Sincere friendship is about doing the best for your friend and always trying to please him. If he is indeed so clever, then I am certain that he will later appreciate you warning the authorities.
CrossLOPER
10-08-2015, 03:25
Let us review the situation:
1. There is a potential murder-suicide.
2. You are an accessory.
Your options were:
a. Keep out of it.
b. Call the police/social services.
a. is out of the question because of 2. You have one option left.
Sarmatian
10-08-2015, 06:15
OR...
... you can all remember where Fragony lives and what's legal over there.
"What a piece of luck. My friend was totally gonna do it, but then Jesus appeared riding a dragon and persuaded him not to."
Kagemusha
10-08-2015, 08:38
Call the cops/ social services like others have said already. There really isnt any other option, if your friend is for real.
Get him to join the .org and come to the BR to argue with the patrons.
"I'm coming to kill you in a minute, but this guy is just PISSING ME OFF!"
No but seriously, what you should do is convince him to seek help. Go with him. Also go with him so he reports whatever his father did/has been doing. See the father locked up, help your friend through rehab or whatver you call it.
It's on hold for a while at least, he just told me he is writing a biography first. That should take some time.
Montmorency
10-08-2015, 13:56
It's on hold for a while at least, he just told me he is writing a biography first. That should take some time.
:laugh4:
This place can be really funny sometimes.
It's on hold for a while at least, he just told me he is writing a biography first. That should take some time.
While this makes the whole situation a little morbidly funny, but again if the dude was being serious, you shouldn't wait till the next time he flips.
While this makes the whole situation a little morbidly funny, but again if the dude was being serious, you shouldn't wait till the next time he flips.
Let me explain, I did go to the authorities half a year ago, basicly the same thing, he wanted to kill himself and wanted to take some others with him. I was not on his list because I was never mean to him (he's gay). Disturbing. Because of that I really messed things up for him because he was immediatly zeroed in his reintigration-program that could have made things better, but I made things worse. A girlfriend of mine who is a psychologists says that people who want to commit suicide almost never talk abouf it but just do it. Writing a biography is morbidly funny but it buys some time, I hope he finds a nice new boyfriend (before you ask, no) that can pull him out of this maelström
CrossLOPER
10-08-2015, 21:29
It's on hold for a while at least, he just told me he is writing a biography first. That should take some time.
Great, Frags, great. I look forward to reading the manifesto "biography" after the murders.
Papewaio
10-08-2015, 21:54
So whilst you aren't a candidate for the nice boyfriend, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Maybe you could help him with his social circle.
Mind you I always thought gay men and muscians essentially got it on tap. Maybe the two cancel each other out...
Great, Frags, great. I look forward to reading the manifesto "biography" after the murders.
It's not in my hands, I warned the police last year when he said these things. I thought it was over but it isn't
What about advising him to use the mental health services? After all, he is having sudicial idealation.
What about advising him to use the mental health services? After all, he is having sudicial idealation.
He has been going trough that for years, as I said he is highly intelligent, they can't reach him as he is way to smart to not notice it when someone is playing with his toes. He holds me in high regards but I don't know how to change his mind either. He's a bit like Sartre's Nausea in a way, or every way really, everhthing disgusts him.
edit, come to think of it, he should read that, he could relate to that
I of the Storm
10-09-2015, 12:09
Offer to proof-read his biography, ask him to elaborate on this or that or to go about something a different way (basically, be his editor friend). Might take his mind off the other things and might get him into writing?
He has been going trough that for years, as I said he is highly intelligent, they can't reach him as he is way to smart to not notice it when someone is playing with his toes. He holds me in high regards but I don't know how to change his mind either. He's a bit like Sartre's Nausea in a way, or every way really, everhthing disgusts him.
edit, come to think of it, he should read that, he could relate to that
If he is intelligent, then possibly CBT will be helpful as I am guessing the problem from your statement is the negative automatic thoughts. I am not familiar with the Dutch system, but he could possibly get a referral from his GP for access to computer-CBT.
Good therapy is not tricking or placating but challenging the thoughts and the way of thinking. It would require a level of insight and motivation from your friend to see it through. It sounds like his previous issues might result in negative responses to practitioners trying to feel him out and he makes a mind game out of it for his amusement. It can happen a lot, and it usually requires trying to build a therapeutic relationship before attempting to initiate a care plan.
Depending on his presentation, it could be that your friend may benefit more from DBT if the issue is more to do with maladaptive personality traits. This unfortunately can occur in incidences of abuse (which was hinted at) caused by the emotional toll and damage this can cause to a person unseen. That would require more advanced mental health services but I hope this is not needed in his case.
All I can honestly recommend given the situation and circumstances is for you to continue being a good friend to him. A good friend is not a yes man but someone who will support and challenge him when required. You seem to have his high regard and you are probably a protective factor for him. Yes, it can be difficult for you and I hope he recognises this and values you more for it.
If you want to help view the situation with him, there are the 5Ps in understanding risk. In short, these are:
Presenting - what are the key or lead risk? You mentioned about suicide and his father.
Predisposing - what led to the risks? So you mentioned abut his personality and possible abuse.
Precipitating - what triggers the risk? Was it something in particular which made this come up now and 6months ago?
Perpetuating - what maintains the risk?
Protecting - what are the persons strengths and supports? This could be you as a friend, this could be his hobbies/interests like the biography.
Being as intelligent as you claim, maybe him having a view of the situation might allow him to review himself and be able to make a better selnse of it all.
However, Fragony, do not or try not to be his therapist, do not go there. Support him but do not take that role. You are his friend first and forth most.
Without any intending any lack of apreciation, I know how it works I am a bachelor on psycholigy myself. Not trying to ridicule your efforts they are apreciated
Without any intending any lack of apreciation, I know how it works I am a bachelor on psycholigy myself. Not trying to ridicule your efforts they are apreciated
That is no problem. It is usually the things which in hindsight which are simple end up being very effective, so brushing away any therapies, there are still things you could do with your friend with are not as overt, such as encouraging him to think about Risk formulation if there is something he would be willing to approach, so both you and your friend are able to understand the processes involved and work to lessen the risk and expand the protective factors.
For other things, there is mediation/mindfulness. There is Headspace.com but that is on the expensive side (but first 10 sessions are free).
There is nothing much we can do other than signpost to gateway services for them to get involved.
Montmorency
10-09-2015, 15:14
Good therapy is not tricking or placating but challenging the thoughts and the way of thinking.
Hence why one of the neurologists I know commented:
"DBT is like a cult!" :p
That is no problem. It is usually the things which in hindsight which are simple end up being very effective, so brushing away any therapies, there are still things you could do with your friend with are not as overt, such as encouraging him to think about Risk formulation if there is something he would be willing to approach, so both you and your friend are able to understand the processes involved and work to lessen the risk and expand the protective factors.
For other things, there is mediation/mindfulness. There is Headspace.com but that is on the expensive side (but first 10 sessions are free).
There is nothing much we can do other than signpost to gateway services for them to get involved.
and I'm not gojg to do that, I am not to go inform anyone I allready did tnat. It isn't my problem anymore.
Montmorency
10-11-2015, 19:23
It isn't my problem anymore.
:inquisitive:
So...
then...
why...
why the thread?
Sarmatian
10-11-2015, 19:47
I'm still waiting to hear what happened with Frags' friend who wanted to kill the mother of his own child.
Frags' friends do seem like they come right out of a Hitchcock movie
Montmorency
10-11-2015, 20:35
I think I've got it.
Fragony maintains his entire persona - he's done it for over a decade - for the sole purpose of bringing up these "friends" every few years.
So he mentions that he's got a friend, with violent tendencies, who needs help, wants to kill themselves, wants to kill someone they hate (and who Fragony should really have killed himself already) - and then it drops.
So what's going on?
Fragony is setting up a deniability screen. These elaborate scenarios are actually cover for serial killings that he himself is carrying out.
:sneaky:
But now that we know, he has to kill us too. ~:grouphug:
CrossLOPER
10-11-2015, 22:38
Fragony is setting up a deniability screen. These elaborate scenarios are actually cover for serial killings that he himself is carrying out.
You think he is capable of this sort of fixation?
Hooahguy
10-11-2015, 22:41
Lets try to avoid the personal attacks, shall we? :bow:
I wouldn't redudicle a very sitiuation such as this myself, but if you have to feel free to do so. I just don't understand you.
CrossLOPER
10-12-2015, 00:10
I just don't understand you.
We feel the same way about you, sometimes.
Hooahguy
10-12-2015, 00:27
This discussion does not look like it will produce anything more productive.
:dancinglock:
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