View Full Version : We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.
Furunculus
07-03-2016, 11:38
It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.
What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?
The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!
Discuss.
Disagree, there is nobody I wouldn't buy a beer no matter how much I disagree. The tenth circle of hell is a pretty comfortable place
The thing is that we can't even discuss that.
It seems like a global trend, since social media gave everybody his or her own echo chamber, people don't question their own views anymore.
There can be no doubt, only wrong people and what I know for a fact.
Or at least that is how it is presented on the innernet.
Doesn't apply for me I question my ideas all the time, I can completily change my mind when convinced. I don't think I have ever been guilty of disrespectively disagreeing
The focus of the narrative on immigration in the mainstream press is to blame too. Every debate has immigrants brought up, it is like you cannot get away from the subject. It is a stagnant and tired topic that needs a nap.
Gilrandir
07-03-2016, 14:14
Disagree, there is nobody I wouldn't buy a beer no matter how much I disagree
childless Mutti excluded.
HopAlongBunny
07-03-2016, 14:35
That focus on immigration I would propose is a deflection from the failure of the political class, and the "captains on industry", to raise all boats.
The immigrant as problem is cover for the transfer of wealth up the food chain.
childless Mutti excluded.
Drank coffee with Schultz and his wife in fact. Gave his wive a 'kwelpeer' and some cheese.
It's certainly not my fault, I'm perfect and I know it because I'm very self-critical.
It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.
What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?
The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!
Discuss.
Well, there is no new blood in .org, which means that only the Old Guard is in the Backroom, which , through years of experience, not going to change its views. Even the topics, immigrants, Islam, the EU, is natural to repeat themselves, so there's really nothing new to say.
Everyone has become uber-cynical and knows that there's no point bothering to write a long elegant post, because nobody is going to be persuaded by it. Sarcastic remarks are the only means of discussion that worth it, thanks to their short and funny content.
Exactly like a company of old men pointlessly repeating the same old arguments and views in the local pub. The decline of the Backroom is the symptom of the general decline of .org.
That being said, I find the atmosphere very friendly, this time the positive consequence of the same cause, the familiarization between the old guard. Pay a visit to the mudpit, and you will find what diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring actually is.
Hooahguy
07-03-2016, 17:09
On the plus side, the lack of consistent new blood makes it (usually) easy to moderate y'all. :yes:
AntiDamascus
07-03-2016, 18:34
We'll the threads here are specific ideas and almost exclusively set up (not by here though) to be two sided fights. They're almost too specific and therefore have no wiggle room.
Also I'm fairly new here!
Greyblades
07-03-2016, 19:50
Treat people as you are treated: easy.
Treat people as you want to be treated: hard.
We argue, but we dont respect each other very much, but the disrespect is limited. In the TWC's mudpit debators hold thier intellectual opponents in outright contempt.
AE Bravo
07-03-2016, 21:13
This place has condescending vibes.
Sarmatian
07-03-2016, 21:47
It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.
What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?
The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!
Discuss.
You act like you're surprised. Intelligent posters rarely post or have outright left, and the less said about the new blood the better.
AE Bravo
07-03-2016, 21:58
Sigh, maybe the "old blood" should lighten up a bit.
Sarmatian
07-03-2016, 22:50
Sigh, maybe the "old blood" should lighten up a bit.
You have mostly appeared rational.
At this point, the problem is that I simply don't care.
Greyblades
07-03-2016, 23:11
At this point?
We know eachother too well by now, the backroom must be a pretty confusing for newcommers as they can't know the views and the nuances we take for granted. It's not a hostile place but I can understand why it is (unintentionally) not a very welcomming place. Showtime is a good example, obviously a very smart guy. He can't know how I look at things and that isn't his fault whatsoever because has only read things that are insulting to him, and they frankly are if you don't have years of context. We aren't short on interesting individuals here but it's probably hard to get into.
Gilrandir
07-04-2016, 11:47
Intelligent posters rarely post or have outright left, and the less said about the new blood the better.
In the TWC's mudpit debators hold thier intellectual opponents in outright contempt.
The upper one shows contempt for ALL: both for those of the old guard who stay, and of the new blood who (rarely) join in.
I don't recall the Backroom being any more intelligent or friendly than it is now.
It used to have a greater number of active participants, something that - necessarily - increased the probability of it being perceived as diverse and having interesting posters (in an absolute measure).
I think this could go a long way towards explaining perceived differences between the Backroom now and at earlier points.
It's the 4th of July and I'm still perfect.
AntiDamascus
07-04-2016, 21:18
I mean I was here maybe a while ago and tried to do the backroom and it was just people screaming insults at each and I walked away. But somewhat recently I came back and thought maybe I was the one who was wrong. Maybe I misread it and it was a misunderstanding or whatever. So I came back and have tried to engage in talks. But nope. And this thread right here is a great example.
This is not a conform to me post. You guys are fine with what you're doing, go for it. I gave it another shot and looks like more of the same as before. Like someone said farther up, maybe the internet is just for shouting matches and I've grown too old for it or something. But since the question was asked, I figured I'd give an answer.
There are no insults in this thread, what are you talking about
Strike For The South
07-05-2016, 01:58
It's the 4th of July and I'm still perfect.
I love it when we flirt.
AntiDamascus
07-05-2016, 13:01
There are no insults in this thread, what are you talking about
I did not say there were insults in this thread. I said the forum had issues and this thread was a great example. It's basically a lot of people saying "yea, we do that, oh well" As I said, if you guys are fine with it it's your site.
CrossLOPER
07-05-2016, 16:59
There are a number of reasons for this, rose-tinted goggles aside.
1. An exodus has occurred.
A large number of people have left, leaving a handful of perspectives. As mentioned before, this results in fewer viewpoints.
2. Relaxed moderation.
I approve of minimal oversight and fewer rules for discussion forums. However, this has led to certain parties that tend to like games about supremacy and hegemony to take advantage of the situation and throw around their views. Normally, they would be laughed out of the forums by the vast majority. This does not happen because the population is so small and everyone feels isolated and embattled. This further leads to the loudest and most vocal extremes to be the most common voice, making existing divisions worse.
3. Lack of unifying trait.
Whether the newer TW titles are badly made or uninteresting, people don't play the games as much anymore. People originally came here for one reason, and that is because they liked the games so much that they wanted to be around those who like them too. Personally, I don't like the newer titles too much, and I believe that the industry is suffering from a plague of DLC, which turns buying games from a fun experience into a gauntlet of comparing deals and waiting for the 30$ GOTY edition to show up.
Furunculus
07-05-2016, 23:04
Whether the newer TW titles are badly made or uninteresting, people don't play the games as much anymore. People originally came here for one reason, and that is because they liked the games so much that they wanted to be around those who like them too. Personally, I don't like the newer titles too much, and I believe that the industry is suffering from a plague of DLC, which turns buying games from a fun experience into a gauntlet of comparing deals and waiting for the 30$ GOTY edition to show up.
oddly enough, i was at my post active and interested when i felt the games were rubbish (rome and M2), and for life reasons have been pulled away from the .org when the games made a decided turn for the better.
Greyblades
07-06-2016, 00:43
I did not say there were insults in this thread. I said the forum had issues and this thread was a great example. It's basically a lot of people saying "yea, we do that, oh well" As I said, if you guys are fine with it it's your site.
All I can say is: contribute more, all of you. Sometimes it feels like the only people who are here most of the time are me, gilrandir, fragony and Husar.
CrossLOPER
07-06-2016, 03:32
rubbish...rome
Heresy.
a completely inoffensive name
07-06-2016, 03:52
It's just a reflection of how discussion has generally devolved in the West. Anger is addictive.
Some will say that the intelligent ones left or stopped posting. That's as masturbatory as you can get. There is nothing intelligent about spending your free time posting 1,000 word posts on a video game forum.
Greyblades
07-06-2016, 04:34
There was when I was talking with people who wanted to talk. Best reality checks I ever had were at the hands of people who used to frequent here. Now all I have to talk to is a self hating german, a metropolitan nationalist, an incomprehensible dutchman and a tunnel visioned Ukranian, none of them know how to talk to someone you actually want to persuade and the most eye opening information I've learned in the last 6 months is the utility of potential energy of man-made lakes in hydroelectric power production.
Gilrandir
07-06-2016, 06:07
There are a number of reasons for this, rose-tinted goggles aside.
1. An exodus has occurred.
A large number of people have left, leaving a handful of perspectives. As mentioned before, this results in fewer viewpoints.
2. Relaxed moderation.
I approve of minimal oversight and fewer rules for discussion forums. However, this has led to certain parties that tend to like games about supremacy and hegemony to take advantage of the situation and throw around their views. Normally, they would be laughed out of the forums by the vast majority. This does not happen because the population is so small and everyone feels isolated and embattled. This further leads to the loudest and most vocal extremes to be the most common voice, making existing divisions worse.
3. Lack of unifying trait.
Whether the newer TW titles are badly made or uninteresting, people don't play the games as much anymore. People originally came here for one reason, and that is because they liked the games so much that they wanted to be around those who like them too. Personally, I don't like the newer titles too much, and I believe that the industry is suffering from a plague of DLC, which turns buying games from a fun experience into a gauntlet of comparing deals and waiting for the 30$ GOTY edition to show up.
One more reason missing:
4. People here (as well as everywhere) are getting older. They have other joys and sorrows to attend to and other errands to run. And the evidence of this is even this thread aiming to discuss how things were better before, when snow was whiter, grass greener, water wetter and women younger. Typical old farts' grumbling.
There was when I was talking with people who wanted to talk. Best reality checks I ever had were at the hands of people who used to frequent here. Now all I have to talk to is a self hating german, a metropolitan nationalist, an incomprehensible dutchman and a tunnel visioned Ukranian, none of them know how to talk to someone you actually want to persuade
I like it. A person (let's call him a spelling-crippled Brexiter) complaining that people don't want to talk to him and putting labels on those who do, and all this in one post. If someone stopped communicating with you, perhaps it is also your fault, isn't it? And, curiously, labels are put on those whom you don't agree with on some points of moment.
As for inability to persuade others - people come here not to persuade anyone, but to air their views which have already been fossilized before they aired them. Like your views on Brexit - whatever reasonable arguments others might have given you, you stick to your opinion no matter what. And since you didn't persuade anyone here it seems that you don't "know how to talk to someone you actually want to persuade" (Greyblades 2016:#32) either.
and the most eye opening information I've learned in the last 6 months is the utility of potential energy of man-made lakes in hydroelectric power production.
If a person for half a year hasn't learnt anything astonishing, it is definitely the fault of this forum. As well as a nasty drop of the pound after Brexit and England losing to Iceland.
And for me an eyeopener in this post was the fact that among all nationalities Ukrainian was the only one capitalized.
CrossLOPER
07-06-2016, 06:48
There is nothing intelligent about spending your free time posting 1,000 word posts on a video game forum.
What do you mean by this?
self hating german, a metropolitan nationalist, an incomprehensible dutchman and a tunnel visioned Ukranian
1. I am shocked that cognitive dissonance hasn't split you into at least 2 different people.
2. What is my label?
One more reason missing:
4. People here (as well as everywhere) are getting older. They have other joys and sorrows to attend to and other errands to run. And the evidence of this is even this thread aiming to discuss how things were better before, when snow was whiter, grass greener, water wetter and women younger. Typical old farts' grumbling.
This sort of goes with my first reason. In addition, internet communities tend to decay after about 10 years unless some influence reignites interest. The backroom is not an exception.
The backroom really was better back when I joined. It can become good again.
Greyblades
07-06-2016, 07:15
Saw that coming a mile away, disrespect breeds only disrespect and patience can be the difference between a mind chanegd and hardened. Neither virtue been exercised against those who disagree with much frequency by many here in recent memory, even by myself.
As for crossloper
1. I am neither incomprehensable, metropolitan or self hating and I am fairly sure I am not tunnel visioned, whereas Fragony, pannonian, husar, and Gilrandir respectively are. I have flaws, I can provide a list if you want, but they dont include those particular proclivities.
2. You arent memorable, post more and that might change.
Nice tunnel you have there, where can I get one
Gilrandir
07-06-2016, 10:04
1. I am neither incomprehensable, metropolitan or self hating and I am fairly sure I am not tunnel visioned, whereas Fragony, pannonian, husar, and Gilrandir respectively are. I have flaws, I can provide a list if you want, but they dont include those particular proclivities.
The flaws on your list do not neccessarily coincide with your flaws as perceived by others. Especially if you are failrly sure in them.
Nice tunnel you have there, where can I get one
There is one between Calais and Dover up for grabs now.
Greyblades
07-06-2016, 14:12
Nice tunnel you have there, where can I get one
I mistook metaphors, I meant one track mind not tunnel vision.
That's not how either metaphor works though.
The flaws on your list do not neccessarily coincide with your flaws as perceived by others. Especially if you are failrly sure in them.
I do not doubt that our lists differ, considering you have a tendancy of telling yourself that your failures to convince me to adopt your point of view are actually down to my unreasonableness.
Gilrandir
07-06-2016, 15:52
I do not dount that our lists differ, considering you have a tendancy of telling yourself that your failures to convince me to adopt your point of view are actually down my unreasonableness.
Now who is being incomprehensible? Is "down" a verb? Then why do you need "are"? If it is a preposition (like in "to be down the river") then I don't understand the idiom "to be down smb's unreasonableness".
What I surmise from this post is: you think that I believe I can't persuade you in something because you are unreasonable. This is not what I claimed. I said that people here (as much as elsewhere) have developed a pre-conceived attitude to things and have come to announce it. This attitude is not likely to be changed or even shaken by the kind of discussion on these boards - protracted in time slow-unraveling communication with random people from all over the world whose complex worldviews are simplifed by their interlocutors to be described with a stygma (e.g. tunnel-visioned Tom, metropolitan Matt, etc). Such kind of discussion reminds gossiping with the corresponding treatment thereof which can be epitomized by the statement "who are YOU to try to teach me anything?"
Serious moderation hat now.
I know this subject is rather touchy, and people do have differing views and opinions, as to why or even who, but I kindly request for patrons to avoid personal attacks on each other. I feel even with differing opinions, there is still ground to respectfully disagree between people and leave it there.
CrossLOPER
07-06-2016, 17:41
Saw that coming a mile away, disrespect breeds only disrespect and patience can be the difference between a mind chanegd and hardened. Neither virtue been exercised against those who disagree with much frequency by many here in recent memory, even by myself.
From what I've seen, people have not really shown any hostility towards you. You tend to complain about your treatment, but sometimes your treatment of others borders on contempt and you act like everyone here is here for you.
For what it's worth, back in the day there was an actual nazi and some dude who thought that nationally and internationally recognized health organizations were a scam or something. They caused a lot more controversy than you, and people never really took it far beyond calling them out on that. The nazi had his victim complex triggered and left because he could not understand why a suburban whiteboy cannot call a black man who became president a monkey. He also thought that Germany could have all its problems solved if they started goosestepping all the time.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-06-2016, 17:47
Now who is being incomprehensible? Is "down" a verb? Then why do you need "are"? If it is a preposition (like in "to be down the river") then I don't understand the idiom "to be down smb's unreasonableness".
What I surmise from this post is: you think that I believe I can't persuade you in something because you are unreasonable. This is not what I claimed. I said that people here (as much as elsewhere) have developed a pre-conceived attitude to things and have come to announce it. This attitude is not likely to be changed or even shaken by the kind of discussion on these boards - protracted in time slow-unraveling communication with random people from all over the world whose complex worldviews are simplifed by their interlocutors to be described with a stygma (e.g. tunnel-visioned Tom, metropolitan Matt, etc). Such kind of discussion reminds gossiping with the corresponding treatment thereof which can be epitomized by the statement "who are YOU to try to teach me anything?"
Frustrated grammarian?
Seamus Fermanagh
07-06-2016, 17:48
Serious moderation hat now.
I know this subject is rather touchy, and people do have differing views and opinions, as to why or even who, but I kindly request for patrons to avoid personal attacks on each other. I feel even with differing opinions, there is still ground to respectfully disagree between people and leave it there.
How polite! Banquo and I just pulled out the "ban-stick" and laid about....
How polite! Banquo and I just pulled out the "ban-stick" and laid about....
Even I got a few strokes of that one myself.
Pannonian
07-06-2016, 19:33
How polite! Banquo and I just pulled out the "ban-stick" and laid about....
TWC's wubs were directly inspired by Banquo replacing profanities with flowers.
Rhyfelwyr
07-06-2016, 19:45
Some of the more interesting posters left, I think in often due to fall-outs although can't remember how far that is true. Remember Louis, Adrian, the angry Irish guy with the Woad Warrior profile pic, how could I forget his name? HoreTore had kept things going on here even when the decline was well underway, what a tragedy it was for a young guy like him to pass away.
Nobody has ever filled the shoes of these people. Discussions now seem to always end up going into the same topics - immigration, Ukraine etc. There just aren't enough regular posters to keep it interesting, we've fell below that point of critical mass that used to get the forum through the quiet spells.
the angry Irish guy with the Woad Warrior profile pic
Tribesman. Gave an ultimatum either the staff perma-banned another member, or he left. That member wasn't perma-banned, so he left.
Sarmatian
07-06-2016, 22:13
From what I've seen, people have not really shown any hostility towards you.
I've been abusing him, but that's only because he rarely makes sense.
Ah, the good old days when you could disagree with people who actually made sense...
Rhyfelwyr
07-06-2016, 23:19
Tribesman. Gave an ultimatum either the staff perma-banned another member, or he left. That member wasn't perma-banned, so he left.
Of course, Tribesman! That brings back another name: Navaros. I'm sure there was a rumour that Navaros was a very well-disguised parody account by Tribesman if I remember rightly.
Of course, Tribesman! That brings back another name: Navaros. I'm sure there was a rumour that Navaros was a very well-disguised parody account by Tribesman if I remember rightly.
Cursory check suggests they have been posting from different continents. They both use the same avatar though, so it could be related to that. I cannot remember Navaros well enough to comment more than that.
Pannonian
07-07-2016, 00:03
Cursory check suggests they have been posting from different continents. They both use the same avatar though, so it could be related to that. I cannot remember Navaros well enough to comment more than that.
He was a Christian fundamentalist (with the emphasis on mentalist) until he decided the New Testament was too wishy washy and went full Old Testament instead. It's rare that you see a devout Christian say that Jesus got it wrong and that he (the believer) knows better.
CrossLOPER
07-07-2016, 01:10
It's rare that you see a devout Christian say that Jesus got it wrong and that he (the believer) knows better.
Wasn't there a couple of dudes here a year or so ago who tried to prove that global warming was impossible because there were palm trees in Antarctica 5000 years ago and some other finely roasted tripe?
Greyblades
07-07-2016, 03:39
Such kind of discussion reminds gossiping with the corresponding treatment thereof which can be epitomized by the statement "who are YOU to try to teach me anything?" More like "you can teach me facts, but you wont imprint your opinion that easily"
Yes, My spelling deteriorates the more agitated or excited I get. It's still ledgible around 95% of the time.
He was a Christian fundamentalist (with the emphasis on mentalist) until he decided the New Testament was too wishy washy and went full Old Testament instead. It's rare that you see a devout Christian say that Jesus got it wrong and that he (the believer) knows better.
...Doesnt that make him jewish? Do the adheirants of abrahamic successor religions default back to the original when they start rejecting the new way?
Seamus Fermanagh
07-07-2016, 04:24
More like "you can teach me facts, but you wont imprint your opinion that easily"
Yes, My spelling deteriorates the more agitated or excited I get. It's still ledgible around 95% of the time.
...Doesnt that make him jewish? Do the adheirants of abrahamic successor religions default back to the original when they start rejecting the new way?
He specifically wrote that he felt the old testament covenant was the better choice. So yes, a move to at least quasi-judaism would have been needed.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-07-2016, 04:25
I used to love Tribesmand, Gawain, Red Harvest, and Crazed Rabbit going after things like gun control....ah...a virtual STUDY in polemics.
Miss that smugg bastard AdrianII and Louis most of all
Gilrandir
07-07-2016, 12:33
Frustrated grammarian?
Objection, your honor: grammatist.
More like "you can teach me facts, but you wont imprint your opinion that easily"
That's what I said. It is a universal thing given the kind of communication we indulge in. Though is is sad that FACTS can't teach you anything.
johnalexadiw
07-08-2016, 11:24
Time is changing, we are changing with them
Sent from my Smartfren Andromax AD688G using Tapatalk
Seamus Fermanagh
07-08-2016, 17:54
Never thought he was all that smug, per se, though he did enjoy tweaking you.
a completely inoffensive name
07-09-2016, 03:56
What do you mean by this?
What specifically are you asking clarity for?
Never thought he was all that smug, per se, though he did enjoy tweaking you.
Don't I know it heh, talk about being outclassed. We both found it hilarious. It's kinda funny he leaves near me and we go to the same bar, he told me he was leaving and we would never know it if we were sitting right next to eachother
Mouzafphaerre
09-24-2016, 01:05
Hate to bring the bad news and it makes me feel even worse that it took me so long to care to look up and find out a few years too late. Anyway...
Many years ago it so happened that we "met" with Adrian II, ie. exchanged real names and even had a couple short phone chats. It was extremely important for him that I shouldn't reveal his identity, to which I promised and with which promise I'll remain bound to the end. A few weeks ago I did a web search and came up with his obituary :(
Ouch. Really sad to hear that
InsaneApache
09-24-2016, 12:17
Dreadful news. Any details?
Mouzafphaerre
09-24-2016, 16:37
Dreadful news. Any details?
My lips are sealed to protect his anonymity. Only these: He passed away naturally (health reasons) and no, he wasn't Tosa (that was a popular ORG/Chatroom urban legend once upon a time)
Seamus Fermanagh
09-24-2016, 16:51
:sad2:
LittleGrizzly
09-24-2016, 17:58
Well wish I hadn't read this topic now.
Enjoyed Adrian's contributions seemed like an intelligent guy who knew what he was on about.
Hore Tore was a great guy as well, after reading up on it's even sadder than I thought, guy was so young as well.
Getting older sucks.
edyzmedieval
09-24-2016, 18:34
:sad2:
That's all I can muster.
:sad2:
A few weeks ago I did a web search and came up with his obituary :(
Sad news indeed brother Mouza, as Adrian often referred those he appreciated. He was one of the patrons here who brought the discussion to a higher level.
For those who didn’t know Adrian – a thread with a potential flammable topic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?82755-Archaeologist-Jesus-predated-Jesus). Yet the clientele around Adrian always seemed to keep it cool.
He was sorely missed even before he passed.
Kralizec
09-24-2016, 21:04
I remember Adrian quite well. This sucks :(
Greyblades
09-24-2016, 21:21
When did he pass on?
Sarmatian
09-24-2016, 22:37
Incredibly sad. RIP Adrian.
I don't there was ever a time that it wasn't partisan in here. A lot of the older partisan debaters seem to have left or passed away but I still enjoy coming back here and mostly reading the various opinions here and on rare occasions participating.
The monastery used to have good historical debates as well but seeing as everything seems to come down to racism now all debates seem to really occur here.
I've seen far more hate and inflammatory debates on the now defunct militaryphotos.net forums.
Mouzafphaerre
09-25-2016, 00:41
When did he pass on?
2013 :(
just in time
rest well mia muca, I really liked you
Furunculus
09-25-2016, 20:38
sorry to hear about adrian.
true to form as an journalist, he tracked down my online alt, but kept that info to himself as far as i know.
nice guy.
Sarmatian
09-25-2016, 21:40
How old was he?
Mouzafphaerre
09-26-2016, 05:10
How old was he?
56 according to the obituary.
I know who he was than. How horrible all this. In his way too short life he had a whole lot of fun, that's comforting
Strike For The South
09-28-2016, 18:56
Life is fundamentally pain. :(
No it isn't you just get hurt once in while. I am really sad he's gone but I'm sure he doesn't mind that I do
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