View Full Version : What Lives Matter?
I hear some people say that
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While others say that
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Others draw attention to the fact that no one says
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Or
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Or
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That said, I don't think that I have ever heard anyone say
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or
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And apparently it is really controversial to say
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I don't really know what it is all about, but I sure am hungry.
Greyblades
07-16-2016, 21:33
Oh god, what have #BLM's morons done now?
Well, you don't hear about US cops killing a large number of Germans or Blues, do you?
Also racist pictures!
We also don't hear much about most people who are shot by the police are males, it's just sexist to point out that males are more criminal than females so get shot a lot more
#malelifematters
Well, you don't hear about US cops killing a large number of Germans or Blues, do you?
Also racist pictures!
lol, it is humor Husar. Blue lives refer to police. In the US police are stereotyped as always eating doughnuts.
Each meme has the stereotyped food of the person it is referring to. It is meant to be a humorous take on a subject people always get anal about.
We also don't hear much about most people who are shot by the police are males, it's just sexist to point out that males are more criminal than females so get shot a lot more
#malelifematters
Says the guy who runs a secret fight club... how many female versus male members do you have?
If gender equality had been achieved, they'd kill the same number of men and women. You're right in that we still have a lot of work to do before a criminal career becomes a viable career path for most women. Just look at the sexist mafia lingo: Made men? What about Made women, duh?!?
lol, it is humor Husar. Blue lives refer to police. In the US police are stereotyped as always eating doughnuts.
Each meme has the stereotyped food of the person it is referring to. It is meant to be a humorous take on a subject people always get anal about.
Racist stereotypes, and of course I also don't see why people get anal about their family members or friends getting killed over a broken car light or so. :dizzy2:
This is all the fault of the English Dutch, if they hadn't sold New Amsterdam, people in the United States of Oranje would now be smoking weed instead of killing eachother with guns.
Says the guy who runs a secret fight club... how many female versus male members do you have?
If gender equality had been achieved, they'd kill the same number of men and women. You're right in that we still have a lot of work to do before a criminal career becomes a viable career path for most women. Just look at the sexist mafia lingo: Made men? What about Made women, duh?!?
Racist stereotypes, and of course I also don't see why people get anal about their family members or friends getting killed over a broken car light or so. :dizzy2:
This is all the fault of the English Dutch, if they hadn't sold New Amsterdam, people in the United States of Oranje would now be smoking weed instead of killing eachother with guns.
lol, but I literally stereotyped everyone, so at least I am an equal opportunity offender. ~;) Don't be so sensitive my friend. It is humor, and I gave it a trigger warning specifically to keep the people who like to get butthurt out. ~;)
lol not so secret I guess, we stopped doing that but was fun for a while. We are still men.
It was between friends by the way, I have gotten worse injuries riding ponies
Gilrandir
07-17-2016, 12:56
Each meme has the stereotyped food of the person it is referring to.
Are gays and Germans united in their love for sausage? I expect German gays eat nothing but sausage.
Are gays and Germans united in their love for sausage? I expect German gays eat nothing but sausage.
If they bite it that would end very soon
Well, I've heard that they both love sausage, so I thought why create two memes when I could make one?
Greyblades
07-18-2016, 00:36
Edit: Screw it I'll make a new thread
Since the Opening Post hasn't been answered, I will provide it.
The reason "Black Lives Matter" getting the response "All Lives Matter" receives disapproval is because it is undermining the cause and credibility of the statement being made. It is natural that "All Lives Matter", and unless you are a bigot, it is what everyone in this thread shares. However, "Black Lives Matter" is a campaign due to the disproportional amount of deaths black identifying people have at the hands of police services. So whilst "All Lives Matter", it is the added point of "Black Lives Matter too"/"this includes Black lives".
Now, going back to why it is disapproved, say that Vuk is victimized in his postings. Every time he posts, Beskar gives him an infraction. Vuk getting upset with this treatment posts "Vuk Posts Matter" in the Watch tower. However, when he does, other members like Husar respond with "All Posts Matter". What is the effect of this? It de-legitimizes Vuk's grievance with his posts being constantly infracted. It is whitewashing the issue. By posting "All Posts Matter", you are not supporting Vuk or his grievance.
Now, I hope this has cleared it up for you.
Greyblades
07-18-2016, 17:14
Pity #blacklivesmatter has become the name of a racist movement that agitate for racial segregation and general anarchism through a concieted effort to deflect all blame for the woes of the african american community upon a concept of "whiteness" that has become so disconnected from it's original meaning as to not even refer to skin colour in the eyes of the members.
"All lives matter" isnt an attempt to white-wash it's a denouncement of the hypocracy in group exhibiting blatant racial prejudice while trying to maintain the facade that it is anti racist. It's like if Vuk started complaining about the badmouthing of republicans with a thread titles "Republican feelings matter", it starts off with him saying we need to watch our language but half way through he starts pissing on the democrats and third partys. Then a few hours later hooahguy makes a thread of his own mockingly named "all feelings matters".
That is unfortunately an problem as a lot of movements end up fostering an "us and them" atmosphere and perverse the nature of the debate. I liked Maisie Williams comment removing 'feminism' as a label, and advocating "You are either a normal person or a sexist".
Greyblades
07-18-2016, 18:19
Hrm, sadly that keeps getting used to call sexist anyone who doesnt ascribe to the description feminist, not realizing that a lot of people dont want to be called feminist because they dont want to be lumped in with the extreme "if you are not with us you are against us" man hating crowd.
The black american communities need community leaders in the vein of Martin Luther King or later-life Mandela, but all they seem to get are either Neo-Black Panthers or Al Sharpton.
AE Bravo
07-18-2016, 18:40
The black american communities need community leaders in the vein of Martin Luther King or later-life Mandela, but all they seem to get are either Neo-Black Panthers or Al Sharpton.
You haven't heard? They're being murdered on the regular. Some of these people are beloved members of their communities and churches, not just inner-city loiterers like how it's presented most of the time.
Everyone needs to stop living in a bubble. The police started this war.
While the actions of the police were questionable to say the least those who were shot weren't exactly saints. Nothing good is going to come from this, some BLM components are simply after race-riots.
HopAlongBunny
07-18-2016, 19:23
Pity #blacklivesmatter has become the name of a racist movement that agitate for racial segregation and general anarchism through a concieted effort to deflect all blame for the woes of the african american community upon a concept of "whiteness" that has become so disconnected from it's original meaning as to not even refer to skin colour in the eyes of the members.
Outside of rants from Fox news and other equally credible sources, I have never heard these things advocated by the leadership of BLM.
It is quite likely that the lunatic fringe of the Black Power movement have spouted their usual nonsense under the BLM banner; the outliers always try to assume the mantle, or at least affiliation with a legitimate cause.
Sort of like claiming all Republicans are fascist white power loons because members of the KKK belong to the party.
Greyblades
07-18-2016, 19:30
Or like claiming all gamergate are womenhating neckbeards?
BLM is a hashtag campaign, it has no leaders, it has no message control and it has no agreed on direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQXmnMr_w8
Those that shout the loudest lead the rest and the loudest shout is increasingly becoming the lunatic fringe.
As for the fox news being the only ones reporting on it; what do you expect from the politically polaraized media? One side plugs thier ears, the other screams and shouts, which does which depends on which side's sacred cow is being focused on.
AE Bravo
07-18-2016, 19:41
If you're going to use Youtube to prove that, you're going to fall short. There are probably more videos of police acting up and getting trigger happy than there are of death chants.
Bubble trouble.
Strike For The South
07-19-2016, 15:54
I can forgive Greyblades because he is a Brit but people forget how reviled MLK jr. was in his time. There is a total whitewashing of the civil rights movement. The man blocked highways, grounded public transport, and spent some not unsubstantial time in prison. White America HATED this man. The majority of his "white" allies were Jews from New York, who, lets be honest, were not really in the fold.
People of my grandparents age wanted black people shot in the street. The fact that the blacks were getting uppity was insane.
Also #BLM is not a centralized movement. I don't understand why everything is being attached to them.
Greyblades
07-19-2016, 16:35
Strike I wasnt saying they should have another MLK because he was popular among whites but because he was a force to restrain violence, the Black panthers under a new lable are once again screaming "kill cops, kill whitey" and the moderate speakers, who could direct the anger and frustration that BLM are exploiting to less violent more contructive outlets, are plugging thier ears on the sidelines.
Papewaio
07-20-2016, 01:59
lol, it is humor Husar...It is meant to be a humorous take on a subject people always get anal about.
I apologize for my sniggering... But given the picture of a sausage for Germans and Gay men the above response to our German admin is so :flowers: funny ~:smoking:
Since the Opening Post hasn't been answered, I will provide it.
The reason "Black Lives Matter" getting the response "All Lives Matter" receives disapproval is because it is undermining the cause and credibility of the statement being made. It is natural that "All Lives Matter", and unless you are a bigot, it is what everyone in this thread shares. However, "Black Lives Matter" is a campaign due to the disproportional amount of deaths black identifying people have at the hands of police services. So whilst "All Lives Matter", it is the added point of "Black Lives Matter too"/"this includes Black lives".
Now, going back to why it is disapproved, say that Vuk is victimized in his postings. Every time he posts, Beskar gives him an infraction. Vuk getting upset with this treatment posts "Vuk Posts Matter" in the Watch tower. However, when he does, other members like Husar respond with "All Posts Matter". What is the effect of this? It de-legitimizes Vuk's grievance with his posts being constantly infracted. It is whitewashing the issue. By posting "All Posts Matter", you are not supporting Vuk or his grievance.
Now, I hope this has cleared it up for you.
There are a few problems with this, but let's back away and start from the beginning. I have not up to this point given an opinion on this if I recall correctly.
Here is how I see it:
Do Black Lives Matter? Of course they do, and anyone who has a problem saying that has issues.
Do All Lives Matter? Of course they do, and anyone who has a problem saying that has issues.
The truth is though, that most people in this country have a problem saying one or the other? Why? By design. The Democrat Party and those who share their goals and values want to divide this country on every issue possible, and use that division to win elections.
The situations is intentionally confused.
Here is how it works:
The Democrat friendly media uses a mixture of legitimate tragedies and manufactured tragedies to falsely (http://www.ijreview.com/2016/07/647164-the-nytimes-pokes-a-massive-hole-in-blacklivesmatter-claim-of-racial-bias-in-police-shootings/) create the impression that black people are being systematically targeted for extermination by America's Police forces. They have for decades already been indoctrinating young black children to believe that white people and police hate them and want to kill them. (No, seriously, a lot of inner city black children literally think of white people and police as the f*(king boogey man who is coming to get them at night. My sis is a teacher who helped teach in some schools in Milwaukee, and she was shocked to find this out)
Black people understandably and legitimately fear for their lives and hate the police and white people (as the media always lays the police problems at the doorstep of white people, it is ultimately their fault).
Black people feel like society doesn't believe their lives matter, and start legitimately protesting with the slogan "Black Lives Matter". The implied meaning of this slogan is "Black Lives Matter Too". The messaging is not as clear or inclusive as it could be, but doesn't need to be as in normal circumstance its meaning would be completely clear.
The problem arises when enormous numbers of those in the BLM movement call for the death of white people and police all over Twitter and during their rallies. BLM leaders are caught encouraging violence against police and white people. More importantly, BLM do not denounce these violent elements as extremists, but seem to embrace them. BLM "protestors" riot, rape, kill, and destroy. It suddenly starts appearing to people who are not black like this movement is a war against police and white people. Suddenly the implied "Too" at the end of their slogan is not so obvious as it beings to look like a black power movement.
With terrorist attacks and crime being committed by BLM against whites, other minorities, and police, it is really hard to draw any other conclusion.
Entire "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter".
People see police being disproportionately targeted for slaughter and hate crimes by the BLM, so they see the need to point out that these are just people too. Again, there is a "too implied". To BLM people though, it only seems to be an attempt to justify the illusion the Left created of a war on minorities by America's police forces.
"All Lives Matter" is the necessary answer to the crimes of BLM, in the same way that BLM is the necessary answer to the perceived crimes of America's police. All Lives Matter says that you cannot start massacring other people because you think you have not been treated well. They hear the hatred of so many in the BLM movement, and the calls to have whitey and the police killed and think "What the heck did I ever do? I never meant you any harm and you want me dead? Doesn't my life matter?".
Of course the "All Lives Matter" crowd doesn't realize that by refusing to acknowledge that Black Lives Matter, they are just reinforcing the opinions of BLM advocates that white people are racist and don't care about the black community and are trying to de-legitimize problems that affect them. To them, they are acknowledging it by saying "All Lives Matter", and "Black Lives Matter" really means that police lives and the lives of those of other races do not matter.
Meanwhile BLM people refuse to say "All Lives Matter" because they think it de-legitimizes their problems, and they just confirm the opinion of ALM people that BLM don't think their lives matter.
The truth is that most BLM people truly believe that All Lives Matter, and most ALM people truly believe that Black Lives Matter. So why won't they just say it? Because Democrats have deliberately controlled the messaging in such a way as to cause total confusing and set people against each other who were not and should not be enemies to begin with. That is how they win elections.
The truth is that All Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter, but that no one in this country looks at both of those statements at face value. They all read evil intentions in one of them, and by their failure to embrace the statement confirm their evil intentions to the other group.
Strike For The South
07-20-2016, 03:51
You're unhinged.
Gilrandir
07-20-2016, 05:54
The Democrat Party and those who share their goals and values want to divide this country on every issue possible, and use that division to win elections.
Like Republicans don't do such things.
Entire "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter".
Curiously, in Ukrainian and Russian "blue" referring to a person means "gay".
Seamus Fermanagh
07-20-2016, 17:24
I can forgive Greyblades because he is a Brit but people forget how reviled MLK jr. was in his time. There is a total whitewashing of the civil rights movement. The man blocked highways, grounded public transport, and spent some not unsubstantial time in prison. White America HATED this man. The majority of his "white" allies were Jews from New York, who, lets be honest, were not really in the fold.
People of my grandparents age wanted black people shot in the street. The fact that the blacks were getting uppity was insane.
Also #BLM is not a centralized movement. I don't understand why everything is being attached to them.
Notable portions of White America hated MLK -- but by no means a majority. A clear majority at the beginning of the Civil Rights era DID want things to stay the same -- most of them rather blithely uncaring about the plight of Black America because it did not impinge directly on them.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-20-2016, 17:29
...The truth is that most BLM people truly believe that All Lives Matter, and most ALM people truly believe that Black Lives Matter. So why won't they just say it? Because Democrats have deliberately controlled the messaging in such a way as to cause total confusing and set people against each other who were not and should not be enemies to begin with. That is how they win elections.
The truth is that All Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter, but that no one in this country looks at both of those statements at face value. They all read evil intentions in one of them, and by their failure to embrace the statement confirm their evil intentions to the other group.
Many are and do say that, from both sides. However, what gets reported or emphasized in the news media is quite different. News/journalism/media, to be engaging and interesting (and sell ad copy) MUST focus on conflict. Most don't go as far as W.R. Hearst to foment conflict, but that norms of reportage tend to emphasize the conflictual elements of any story. This makes it all to easy for the parties themselves, with a bit of a media "assist" to polarize the conflict even further.
In conditions of relative polarization already -- such as is obviously extent in the USA today -- it is simply that much easier for media reporting norms to actually encourage a worsening conflict.
Consider: Dispute Resolution Journal, Aug-Oct 2001, pp. 40-55.
Strike For The South
07-20-2016, 17:38
Notable portions of White America hated MLK -- but by no means a majority. A clear majority at the beginning of the Civil Rights era DID want things to stay the same -- most of them rather blithely uncaring about the plight of Black America because it did not impinge directly on them.
Even in 1968 Gallup shows that a majority of Americans believed the negro was still responsible for his own plight and that they should stop protesting, their point had been made. The numbers are worse for 64. He was viewed with more scorn than the BLM movement is today.
White America was certainly not welcoming or caring.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-20-2016, 18:42
Even in 1968 Gallup shows that a majority of Americans believed the negro was still responsible for his own plight and that they should stop protesting, their point had been made. The numbers are worse for 64. He was viewed with more scorn than the BLM movement is today.
White America was certainly not welcoming or caring.
True that, though I ascribe it more to complacency then mis-like.
Montmorency
07-24-2016, 21:59
You're unhinged.
No. Setting aside the predictable defamation of the Democrats, he more-or-less captures some core tensions and public perceptions for the issue.
More concisely, "Black Lives Matter Too", but "So Do Non-Black Lives".
They're both stupid, purely-contrarian slogans, and the only coherent justification I've heard for them is 'bandwagon'. What a pointless thing to make a social argument under their franchises....
No. Setting aside the predictable defamation of the Democrats, he more-or-less captures some core tensions and public perceptions for the issue.
More concisely, "Black Lives Matter Too", but "So Do Non-Black Lives".
They're both stupid, purely-contrarian slogans, and the only coherent justification I've heard for them is 'bandwagon'. What a pointless thing to make a social argument under their franchises....
lol, you know me Montmorency, I always have to call out them darned old liberals. ~;)
Greyblades
08-04-2016, 11:36
So, someone blew up a cop car yesterday.
Pipe bomb explodes on police vehicle in Maryland (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pipe-bomb-explodes-police-cruiser-maryland/)
A pipe bomb exploded on a police vehicle in suburban Maryland early Wednesday, the police said.
The vehicle was parked on the street outside an officer's house in Thurmont, Maryland, Police Chief Greg Eyler told CBS Washington, D.C., affiliate WUSA-TV.
At around 12:30 a.m., the officer heard an explosion, Eyler told WUSA-TV. He and his wife went outside, and they found the remains of a pipe bomb beside his vehicle.
Eyler said it looked like someone placed the pipe bomb on the hood of the vehicle against the windshield. The main damage to the vehicle was to the windshield, and the bomb also blew out at least one side window.
The explosion sent shrapnel into a nearby house, sources told CBS News homeland security correspondent Jeff Pegues.
No one was injured, Eyler said.
A source told CBS News the bomb was "legit."
The bomb fragments were being analyzed at a lab for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Pegues reports.
No one was under arrest and the motive was unclear.
Investigators were not ruling anything out because of recent incidents where police officers have been targeted, Pegues reports.
CrossLOPER
08-04-2016, 21:05
So, someone blew up a cop car yesterday.
Pipe bomb explodes on police vehicle in Maryland (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pipe-bomb-explodes-police-cruiser-maryland/)
Pokemon GO is still infinitely more dangerous to police cars.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36850110
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/05/black-lives-matter-protest-sparks-heathrow-traffic-chaos?CMP=twt_gu
lol, maybe the brittish police should start randomly shooting negroes to satisfy black life muppets so they get the racism they crave. Black life muppets are lmuch like leftist bored rich kids, rebels without a cause. A cause! A cause! My ffswutreally for a cause
Just like in the USA most blacks get killed by blacks. Does that matter, not to black life muppets. Only cherrypicked admittingly questionable events
Ironside
08-05-2016, 18:40
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/05/black-lives-matter-protest-sparks-heathrow-traffic-chaos?CMP=twt_gu
lol, maybe the brittish police should start randomly shooting negroes to satisfy black life muppets so they get the racism they crave. Black life muppets are lmuch like leftist bored rich kids, rebels without a cause. A cause! A cause! My ffswutreally for a cause
Just like in the USA most blacks get killed by blacks. Does that matter, not to black life muppets. Only cherrypicked admittingly questionable events
Having high trust for the police helps bringing down crime. That requires that the police is trustworthy. In particular if you live close to crime, as it means that you'll have a lot more interaction with the police than average. It makes a lot of difference if they arrest that buddy's buddy that you suspected could've been a drug dealer, compared to beating up that other buddy's buddy that you know is fairly decent.
Let me put it this way, when the state got the monopoly of violence, the murder rate dropped 98-99% percent. When a community can't trust the police, they have to establish their own defense against violence, like in the old days, that had 50-100 times the murder rate of (Western Europe) today.
Greyblades
08-05-2016, 18:44
So what the hell are they doing in london? Seriously.
AE Bravo
08-05-2016, 19:43
Just like in the USA most blacks get killed by blacks. Does that matter, not to black life muppets. Only cherrypicked admittingly questionable events
Why would it matter? They're a response to police brutality. Of course that matters but that's not why they're protesting. You're the one cherrypicking.
So what the hell are they doing in london? Seriously.
Well lets see.
Hard question that one .
Obviously you have given it a great deal of thought.
So how's about ...It's London, that means it's the Met.
Does that seem logical so far? Are you keeping up?
So you will be aware that the Met has a bit of a recurring problem, yes?
A problem that has been ongoing for decades, yes?
A problem which occasionally cannot be covered up sufficiently and so requires a government or a judicial inquiry, yes?
Now perhaps you can answer this question.....
Year after year , decade after decade what do these inquiries find?
Is it
A The Met is a wonderful organisation which does its job with a sprinkling of unicorns and rainbows.
B The Met is institutionally racist and cannot do its job effectively until it fixes it's deep rooted faults.
[/B]
lol, maybe the brittish police should start randomly shooting negroes to satisfy black life muppets so they get the racism they crave. Black life muppets are lmuch like leftist bored rich kids, rebels without a cause. A cause! A cause! My ffswutreally for a cause
Just like in the USA most blacks get killed by blacks. Does that matter, not to black life muppets. Only cherrypicked admittingly questionable events
See above for the answer, but you do seem to come across as a dumb racist so I don't think answers will help you at all.
Apologies for the use of the word "dumb", it is superfluous to the word "racist".
Greyblades
08-05-2016, 21:15
Oh boy here we go.
oh no we don't, too normal to bother with
Oh boy here we go.
A or B
Simple isn't it.
I take it you know the answer, so the next question is why did you write such nonsense when you knew full well why there are protests in London and that there are plenty of valid reasons for those protests?
After all it is in the news today that the problems which were a factor in the expensive riots 5 years ago are now worse instead of better.
Perhaps you think improving matters is not important and objecting to those matters is somehow unimportant.
Which would be a very strange view, and a totally unjustifiable view from any logical perspective.
Strike For The South
08-05-2016, 23:53
Tribesman? Is that you?
at least change then style man.
Got it right here, you can pick it up tomorow
There we go again, this time Milwalky. Criminal is shot, is black so must be racism, so why not burn stuff. If black life matters do something with your life. Screw that victimtude, really. Almost all blacks who get killed are kil,ed by blacks, fact.
.Almost all blacks who get killed are kil,ed by blacks, fact.
Is it a fact or is it a fiction?
Greyblades
08-14-2016, 09:57
In america, fact. (http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439)
Is it a fact or is it a fiction?
It's a fact. Why it is a fact is a different discussion.
In america, fact. (http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439)
So its also a fact that the same is true for whites killing whites
It's a fact. Why it is a fact is a different discussion.
It is a different discussion, but it's also the same discussion.
The question is why did you raise it in a topic about protests about police violence.
Is it an attempt to deflect away from the issue of institutional racism
It is a different discussion, but it's also the same discussion.
The question is why did you raise it in a topic about protests about police violence.
Is it an attempt to deflect away from the issue of institutional racism
More whites are shot by the police, also a fact. Most criminals are male by the way, there I said it. I'll just admit it I'm a feminist
Greyblades
08-14-2016, 12:38
So its also a fact that the same is true for whites killing whites
Indeed, which is why it's combined with the other statistics, like how they commit 52% of murders while only having 13% of the population share.
Mostly other blacks, but if a cop shoots a black suddenly black life matters, Picking cotton must have been really traumatising it still haunts them today
We have the douchebags here, we have this black-pete thing that upsets the upset. Doesn't matter to them that it's a perfectly innocent kid's party, they celebrate it in our former colonies as well. Most hilarious, or sad, was that my nephew was attacked by bored white rich kids. He can't whipe it of he's actually black, and played black pete.
Mostly other blacks, but if a cop shoots a black suddenly black life matters, Picking cotton must have been really traumatising it still haunts them today
We have the douchebags here, we have this black-pete thing that upsets the upset. Doesn't matter to them that it's a perfectly innocent kid's party, they celebrate it in our former colonies as well. Most hilarious, or sad, was that my nephew was attacked by bored white rich kids. He can't whipe it of he's actually black, and played black pete.
Racist much?
More whites are shot by the police, also a fact.
Another attempt to dodge the issue.
An unrmed black man is far more likely to be shot by the police than an unarmed white man.
Indeed, which is why it's combined with the other statistics, like how they commit 52% of murders while only having 13% of the population share.
What you wrote is the claim an individual made, the link explores if that claim is factual.
What you need to do is read the verdict, or even better read the two linked studies. Or even just read as far as the bit where "52% of murders" is pointed out to be wrong.
Greyblades
08-14-2016, 14:41
If you had actually paid attention you would know that it was the Bureau of Justice statistsics (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf) who was that individual who says that 52% of murders between 1980 and 2008 were caused by black offenders.
If you werent lazy maybe you would actually back up your statements and not come off as a contrarian tit.
If you had actually paid attention you would know that it was the Bureau of Justice statistsics (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf) who was that individual who says that 52% of murders between 1980 and 2008 were caused by black offenders.
If you werent lazy maybe you would actually back up your statements and not come off as a contrarian tit.
Bullshit.
If you were not lazy you would notice the difference between your two links.
"James" is the source you used not the DoJ
Another attempt to dodge the issue.
An unrmed black man is far more likely to be shot by the police than an unarmed white man.
true
Greyblades
08-14-2016, 18:11
Bullshit.
If you were not lazy you would notice the difference between your two links.
"James" is the source you used not the DoJ
"James" used the doj, I got that link from the first link. Stop wasting my time.
The crime difference is probably because the blacks are all muslims. :dizzy2:
"James" used the DoJ but used words with a different meaning.
Ok, so if they're not muslim, they're at least more likely to have elevated BLLs:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/lead-and-race-flint—and-everywhere-else
All the rest of the data on lead poisoning is exactly what you'd expect. Not only is it higher among blacks than whites, but it's higher in inner cities and it's higher among low-income families. And of course, this is on top of all the social problems these kids already have from being black, poor, and living in rundown neighborhoods.
Needless to say, lead didn't cause institutional racism. But lead sure made it worse. White children were severely affected by the postwar lead epidemic, but it produced nothing less than carnage among black kids. Before we finally got it under control in the late 80s, lead poisoning had created nearly an entire generation of black teenagers with lower IQs, more behavioral problems in school, and higher rates of violent behavior—which, as Wheeler says, feeds into already vicious stereotypes of African-Americans and the poor.
It's great to poison the people first, then blame all the resulting issues on them...
What I'm saying is you can stuff your blacks vs. whites crimes statistics into your lead-filled tinfoil hat!
They also don't disprove institutional racism in the slightest because the two problems are not mutually exclusive.
Well a lot young black people die because of lead, a lot faster than from lead-poisining though. In problematic, and yes pioor, neighnourhoods the homocide-rate are really high. Gangs kill echother over nothing, sometimes just to prove their worth. That's not special to America, especially in Amsterdam lequidations between gangs are pretty common, sometimes with very heavy weapons, there are plenty of these from former yugoslavia. In Amsterdam it's mostly between Marrocans though
Well a lot young black people die because of lead, a lot faster than from lead-poisining though. In problematic, and yes pioor, neighnourhoods the homocide-rate are really high. Gangs kill echother over nothing, sometimes just to prove their worth. That's not special to America, especially in Amsterdam lequidations between gangs are pretty common, sometimes with very heavy weapons, there are plenty of these from former yugoslavia. In Amsterdam it's mostly between Marrocans though
Not quite the point: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/#7732e60563b2
All of it points to one simple idea: violent crime rose as a result of lead poisoning because of leaded gasoline. It declined because of lead abatement policies.
There are three basic reasons why this theory should be believed. First, as Drum points out, the numbers correlate almost perfectly. “If you add a lag time of 23 years,” he writes. “Lead emissions from automobiles explain 90 percent of the variation in violent crime in America. Toddlers who ingested high levels of lead in the ’40s and ’50s really were more likely to become violent criminals in the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s.”
I wasn't saying that lead poisoning kills them but that it is very likely to have made them and still makes them more violent. See the lead poisoning in Flint for example, it often hits the poor much harder than the rich, too. Wealthier people are more likely to live in newer houses etc.
And yes, the Dutch have their criminals, too, who was denying that?
Greyblades
08-15-2016, 06:32
They also don't disprove institutional racism in the slightest because the two problems are not mutually exclusive.
You need to prove before you need to disprove.
The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.
There have been a real liquidation wave lately, a big stash of cocaine has dissapeared, that's when it started. Everybody is blaming eachother, not 'normal' crime, we have never had something like this before
edit, hussie
You need to prove before you need to disprove.
The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.
Unbelievable.
AE Bravo
08-15-2016, 08:08
So just because there's black on black crime it makes sense to dismiss their concerns about being victims of the state that is responsible for their protection. Yeah, don't waste your time with people who try to rationalize their irrational hate.
Continue with your miserable summers you non-racists.
Unbelievable.
What's so wrong with what he says, these black life muppets love the idea that this is a black vs white thing. That most young blacks who get shot are shot by young blacks, not a fuck was given. Friend of mine was in New York and wanted to ask cops for direction, he wanted to pick his map and immeddiatly was looking at four guns directed at him, no he's not black
disclaimer, I saw the video a few weeks ago and that absolutily looks bad, there is no justification for shooting the guy who was already on the ground.
Greyblades
08-15-2016, 08:41
Unbelievable.
You have little imagination, and debate skills.
So just because there's black on black crime it makes sense to dismiss their concerns about being victims of the state that is responsible for their protection.It makes sense to dismiss it when they constantly go on riots over the deaths of criminals but ignore the deaths of little girls.
Yeah, don't waste your time with people who try to rationalize their irrational hate.
Lazy.
Continue with your miserable summers you non-racists.
Reading about widespread Islamic mass rape and race bait fueled riots does tend to put a pallor on my holidy.
You need to prove before you need to disprove.
The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.
Wow, so much ignorance in such a small post.
You can't even prove that they're not doing anything when their kids are getting shot.
You ignore community work, efforts to stop children from joining gangs and lead poisoning and just post the worst racist drivel you could find, trying to pass it off as fact. You even try to dehumanize them by insinuating that they don't care if their own children die. That is despicable racist racist rubbish and nothing else, or dare you try to prove any of these allegations?
Here's a link to prove that your argument is full of racist drivel: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/
You always like to tell the other side that it needs proof but can't even prove your own arguments...
I already provided proof for the fact that the elevated crime and violence in poor black communities were caused by the greed, negligence and ignorance of the white majority, you have provided nothing but racist talking points!
As for your institutional racism proof: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2015/05/06/institutional-racism-is-our-way-of-life
When juveniles hit the court system, it discriminates against blacks as well. Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts.
They're already getting sentenced harsher by the white majority when they are still children and racists falsely blame their mothers for not caring enough about the children...what a load of racist shit!
What Greyblades says isn't racist at all, just an pretty obvious observation. Let's just look at 'ghetto culture', there is a lot of thoughtfull and poetic rap, but what is most about, bitches and hoes, lots of expensive cars and gold juwelry. Great role-models if life is already really hard. Black community needs some introspective instead of blaming everything on whiteboy.
What Greyblades says isn't racist at all, just an pretty obvious observation. Let's just look at 'ghetto culture', there is a lot of thoughtfull and poetic rap, but what is most about, bitches and hoes, lots of expensive cars and gold juwelry. Great role-models if life is already really hard. Black community needs some introspective instead of blaming everything on whiteboy.
That's just more "obvious" bullshit, because
a) I already proved his "observation" that black people don't care about their children getting shot by gangs wrong.
b) there are other ghetto cultures which are not black but also violent.
c) white greed poisoned them with lead, of course they are more aggressive, but it's not like they wanted that, chemistry just does that to them. Fix the stupid problems instead of letting the children of Flint and other cities continue to drink lead!
This triangular dynamic among bully, victim, and audience is what I mean by the deep structure of bullying. It deserves to be analyzed in the textbooks. Actually, it deserves to be set in giant neon letters everywhere: Bullying creates a moral drama in which the manner of the victim’s reaction to an act of aggression can be used as retrospective justification for the original act of aggression itself.
Not only does this drama appear at the very origins of bullying in early childhood; it is precisely the aspect that endures in adult life. I call it the “you two cut it out” fallacy. Anyone who frequents social media forums will recognize the pattern. Aggressor attacks. Target tries to rise above and do nothing. No one intervenes. Aggressor ramps up attack. Target tries to rise above and do nothing. No one intervenes. Aggressor further ramps up attack.
This can happen a dozen, fifty times, until finally, the target answers back. Then, and only then, a dozen voices immediately sound, crying “Fight! Fight! Look at those two idiots going at it!” or “Can’t you two just calm down and learn to see the other’s point of view?” The clever bully knows that this will happen—and that he will forfeit no points for being the aggressor. He also knows that if he tempers his aggression to just the right pitch, the victim’s response can itself be represented as the problem.
: You’re a decent chap, Jeeves, but I must say, you’re a bit of an imbecile.
: A bit of a . . . what!? What the hell do you mean by that?
: See what I mean? Calm down! I said you were a decent chap. And such language! Don’t you realize there are ladies present?
And what is true of social class is also true of any other form of structural inequality: hence epithets such as “shrill women,” “angry black men,” and an endless variety of similar terms of dismissive contempt. But the essential logic of bullying is prior to such inequalities. It is the ur-stuff of which they are made.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-the-bully-s-pulpit
Hooahguy
08-16-2016, 02:47
NOTICE TO ALL:
Personal attacks are never allowed, next time it happens the penalties will be severe.
Greyblades
08-16-2016, 09:39
It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.
Wow, so much ignorance in such a small post.
You can't even prove that they're not doing anything when their kids are getting shot.
You ignore community work, efforts to stop children from joining gangs and lead poisoning and just post the worst racist drivel you could find, trying to pass it off as fact. You even try to dehumanize them by insinuating that they don't care if their own children die. That is despicable racist racist rubbish and nothing else, or dare you try to prove any of these allegations?
Here's a link to prove that your argument is full of racist drivel: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/
You always like to tell the other side that it needs proof but can't even prove your own arguments...
I already provided proof for the fact that the elevated crime and violence in poor black communities were caused by the greed, negligence and ignorance of the white majority, you have provided nothing but racist talking points!Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".
9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ferguson-9-year-old-girl-shot-dead-homework-bed-article-1.2331544): riots nowhere to be seen. (https://www.rt.com/usa/312970-black-lives-jamyla-mansur/) Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson (https://www.rt.com/usa/312874-protesters-st-louis-cops-shooting/)
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. (www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-child-fatally-shot-briefing-met-20151105-story.html) Peaceful protests. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/25/chicago-guns-child-execution-tyshawn-lee-gang-violence)Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey) Mobs targeting white people for beatings. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey)
There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muGwZGN3JU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4h3P-NjblE
There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.
As for your institutional racism proof: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2015/05/06/institutional-racism-is-our-way-of-life
They're already getting sentenced harsher by the white majority when they are still children and racists falsely blame their mothers for not caring enough about the children...what a load of racist shit! I'm going to spoiler my dismantling of your article because it goes on for a bit.
Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?
"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure) than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8064435/Children-in-single-parent-families-worse-behaved.html) in the resultant children.
We go on "Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts."
"18 times more likely" comes from this (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf) which itself is quoting this (http://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/justice-for-some.pdf) which states
"An estimated 4,100 youth under the age of 18 were admitted to the nation’s state prisons in 2002. The majority (73%) of these new commitments were youth of color; 58% were African American, 10% were Latino, and 5% were youth of other races. As such, African American, Latino, and Native American youth had significantly higher prison admissions rates than White youth"
Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.
Then it goes on about college graduates pay and household values, not sure why that is there as it's due to the private sector which by definition is not institutional.
"A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop, and six times more likely to go jail than a white person. Blacks make up nearly 40 percent of arrests for violent crimes."
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.
"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvMc-K8XHY
"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.
"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. (http://www.eji.org/raceandpoverty/juryselection) Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.
"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.
A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.
That's just more "obvious" bullshit, because
a) I already proved his "observation" that black people don't care about their children getting shot by gangs wrong.
b) there are other ghetto cultures which are not black but also violent.
c) white greed poisoned them with lead, of course they are more aggressive, but it's not like they wanted that, chemistry just does that to them. Fix the stupid problems instead of letting the children of Flint and other cities continue to drink lead!
A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"
B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.
C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?
lol@CNN guy, keeps interrupting and than says 'can you let me talk' Nice conversation but do I really have to be there kinda thingie, I would have walked away, that cop cannot even finnish a single sentence. Still better than Dutch 'quality media' though, no extra-warm lamp directed at his head to make him sweat. Yes they do that.
It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.
Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".
9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ferguson-9-year-old-girl-shot-dead-homework-bed-article-1.2331544): riots nowhere to be seen. (https://www.rt.com/usa/312970-black-lives-jamyla-mansur/) Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson (https://www.rt.com/usa/312874-protesters-st-louis-cops-shooting/)
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. (www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-child-fatally-shot-briefing-met-20151105-story.html) Peaceful protests. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/25/chicago-guns-child-execution-tyshawn-lee-gang-violence)Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey) Mobs targeting white people for beatings. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey)
There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muGwZGN3JU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4h3P-NjblE
There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.
I'm going to spoiler my dismantling of your article because it goes on for a bit.
Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?
"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure) than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8064435/Children-in-single-parent-families-worse-behaved.html) in the resultant children.
We go on "Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts."
"18 times more likely" comes from this (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf) which itself is quoting this (http://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/justice-for-some.pdf) which states
"An estimated 4,100 youth under the age of 18 were admitted to the nation’s state prisons in 2002. The majority (73%) of these new commitments were youth of color; 58% were African American, 10% were Latino, and 5% were youth of other races. As such, African American, Latino, and Native American youth had significantly higher prison admissions rates than White youth"
Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.
Then it goes on about college graduates pay and household values, not sure why that is there as it's due to the private sector which by definition is not institutional.
"A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop, and six times more likely to go jail than a white person. Blacks make up nearly 40 percent of arrests for violent crimes."
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.
"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvMc-K8XHY
"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.
"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. (http://www.eji.org/raceandpoverty/juryselection) Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.
"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.
A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.
A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"
B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.
C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?
What a complete load of rubbish.
It is funny that you are trying to take apart Husars links when your own links have already made his point.
You really should read your links.
It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.
Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".
9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ferguson-9-year-old-girl-shot-dead-homework-bed-article-1.2331544): riots nowhere to be seen. (https://www.rt.com/usa/312970-black-lives-jamyla-mansur/) Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson (https://www.rt.com/usa/312874-protesters-st-louis-cops-shooting/)
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. (www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-child-fatally-shot-briefing-met-20151105-story.html) Peaceful protests. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/25/chicago-guns-child-execution-tyshawn-lee-gang-violence)Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey) Mobs targeting white people for beatings. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438992/milwaukee-riot-black-lives-matter-police-homicide-rate-khalif-rainey)
There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:
Eh, no, it's pretty useless to riot or protest against the government in order to stop the problems in your own community.
Unless you are saying that you agree that the government should do more to stop lead poisoning of poor people and do more to raise everyone out of poverty. You also keep ignoring the fact that blacks protesting against racist police does not mean they ignore the problems of their own communities, I already posted a link that cirtes several marches and even your own link mentions this:
And next door, a lawn sign reads: "We Must Stop Killing Each Other."
Do you ignore this on purpose?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muGwZGN3JU
Hilarious, the guy is a Trump supporter and that's just his opinion anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4h3P-NjblE
Great, I stopped when he basically said everyone who disagrees is an idiot. Sounds scientific, bro.
There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.
So you only think of them as people when they agree with you?
Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?
"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure) than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8064435/Children-in-single-parent-families-worse-behaved.html) in the resultant children.
Lol, yes, I have, so we have three possibilities:
A) Children with black skin do not commit more crimes than children with white skin -> In this case racism is still going on.
B) Children with black skin do commit more crimes than children with white skin -> Your explanation for this comes down to racism and poverty again, conditions the people with black skin colkor did not choose for themselves. The argument that they should have raised themselves by their own bootstraps in the few decades since segregation and so on ended are ludicrous, especially since racism in peoples' heads didn't end at the same time.
C) Mixture of A and B -> In this case the damning of A and B both apply and your excuse is still just racist propaganda.
Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.
[...]
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.
Lol, hilarious, you keep saying correlation does not equal causation and then refer to statistics that correlate the number of sentenced or arrested people with how many crimes the people of that skin color actually commit. The problem is that your correelation does not prove causation either because if a racist police doesn't even check white people as much as it does black people, the correlation between actual crimes committed and the arrest statistics you base your argument on is for the trash can...
Didn't you complain about double standards above?
"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvMc-K8XHY
Yes, this absolutely explains incidents like this one:
Warning, video is graphic, but the picture already shows in what situation the officer fired.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1173602/GRAPHIC-Charleston-cop-fatally-shoots-man-runs-away.html
Please explain to me why this man deserved to be shot and how there cannot possibly be a racist element to it.
You're already grasping at possibilities anyway, perhaps black people would be nicer to the police if they didn't know that the police target them due to their skin color in the first place.
"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.
Because you like your racist fairytales:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/03/racial-bias-us-death-penalty
Second, the geographical anomalies: an analysis by the Houston Chronicle found that 12 of the last 13 people condemned to death in Harris County, Texas were black. After Texas itself, Harris County is the national leader in its number of executions. Over one third of Texas's 305 death row inmates – and half of the state's 121 black death row prisoners – are from Harris County. One of those African Americans, Duane Buck, was sentenced based on the testimony of an expert psychologist who maintained that blacks are prone to violence. In 2008, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal resigned after sending an email message titled "fatal overdose", featuring a photo of a black man lying on the ground surrounded by watermelons and a bucket of chicken.
It would be evil and nasty to think racism could be involved, right?
"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. (http://www.eji.org/raceandpoverty/juryselection) Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.
Oh yeah, you critical thinker are so hard to convince and the black people are all lying anyway.
I can see how much you'd like to find the truth because a simple google search turned up this, but I guess the BAR is not trustworthy either...
http://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol37_2010/fall2010/illegal_racial_discrimination_in_jury_selection.html
The documented and continued exclusion of people of color from juries is evidence of an acceptance of racial bias in too many courts across the United States today. Prosecutors who illegally exclude people of color from juries face few, if any, consequences or even public scrutiny.
"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.
Is it because of your racist argument that you can't see the point of this?
A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.
You mean like you can't prove shit and you keep trying to blame black people for all problems?
A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"
B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.
C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?
Greyblades
08-17-2016, 13:38
Eh, no, it's pretty useless to riot or protest against the government in order to stop the problems in your own community.
Unless you are saying that you agree that the government should do more to stop lead poisoning of poor people and do more to raise everyone out of poverty. You also keep ignoring the fact that blacks protesting against racist police does not mean they ignore the problems of their own communities, I already posted a link that cirtes several marches and even your own link mentions this:
Do you ignore this on purpose?...Do you ignore me on purpose? Not 10 lines amove in your post you quote me addressing the signs and protest, they are pitifully small when compared to the reaction whenever a cop kills anyone and even more pitiful when you know there is little difference in reaction between when the cops kill innocents or criminals.
Hilarious, the guy is a Trump supporter and that's just his opinion anyway. His political affiliation is irrelevant, he is on the streets dealing with the situations on a daily basis and his opinion carries a lot more weight than Jeff Nesbit a man who pulls facts from dubious sources when not snatching them from the air, and likely hasnt set foot in a ghetto in his life.
Great, I stopped when he basically said everyone who disagrees is an idiot. Sounds scientific, bro. What does his scientific credibility have to do with it? This is a black man calling out his fellows for behavior he sees as hypocrytical, if he hadnt I would not have been brough to the attention of said child slayings in the first place and the subsequent comparitively pathetic response from the community. I also have to point out how hypocrytical you are being complaining about him accusing everyone who disagrees as an idiot when you are prone to do the same with the term "racist".
So you only think of them as people when they agree with you?That would be your schtick.
B) Children with black skin do commit more crimes than children with white skin -> Your explanation for this comes down to racism and poverty again, conditions the people with black skin colkor did not choose for themselves. The argument that they should have raised themselves by their own bootstraps in the few decades since segregation and so on ended are ludicrous, especially since racism in peoples' heads didn't end at the same time.I look forward to seeing you try link thier proven propesnsity towards single parent houshold and poverty, a state shared by other demographics with stronger familial ties.
As for my answer:
D) the black community has fostered a culture of noncooperation and criminal glorification that produces children with a severe distrust and disregard for authority that is exacerbated by internal pressures towards self segrigation (the whole "no snitch rule") , rather like a certain other demographic here in europe.
Lol, hilarious, you keep saying correlation does not equal causation and then refer to statistics that correlate the number of sentenced or arrested people with how many crimes the people of that skin color actually commit. The whole thing about correlation not causation is that mr nesbit keeps failing to actually prove the stats are so because of racism and not for some other reason. Here I am pointing out a lack of statistics indicating that the black arrests were unsubstantiated which would actually indicate racism instead of the inevitable consequenses of a demographic with a higher crime rate to everyone else.
Yes, this absolutely explains incidents like this one:
Warning, video is graphic, but the picture already shows in what situation the officer fired.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1173602/GRAPHIC-Charleston-cop-fatally-shoots-man-runs-away.html
Please explain to me why this man deserved to be shot and how there cannot possibly be a racist element to it.
You're already grasping at possibilities anyway, perhaps black people would be nicer to the police if they didn't know that the police target them due to their skin color in the first place.
A) prove that was racially motivated
B) prove that such behaviour is widespread among police
C) prove that such behavior is condoned by the institution.
Then you can use it as proof of institutionalised racism. Going by the fact that the cop is due to go on trial for murder in october the last one will require one hell of a stretch.
Also how is that a rebuttal to a comment on the frequency of stop and search arrests?
Because you like your racist fairytales:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/03/racial-bias-us-death-penalty
It would be evil and nasty to think racism could be involved, right?
Hmm, lets see the only out and out racism I can see is that prosecutor, the one that had his racist case struck down and himself forced to resign after a racist email, system seems to be working there.
Then you have the courts trying to keep thier right to dismiss black jurors who are statistically less likely to give the death penalty for convicted murderers of white people, somewhat less air tight as it points to the victim's race not the perp being what influences the death penalty. The joys of the jury system: the more the jury sympathises with the victim the harsher he sentance, and people tend to sympathise with strangers of similar race. So what's to say; white people care too much about the deaths of whites or blacks care too little, and vice versa?
To solve this I think that this shows we should be filling the juries with none of the ethnicities of victim or murder, or abolish the death penalty alltogether, either would work.
The rest of the guardian article is statistics; 56% of death row inmates are black or Hispanic, African-Americans are 27% of the population, yet comprise 63% of the prisoners, same parroting of stats that look like they imply mass false arrests until you find out the crime rates.
Turns out fairy tale is a good descriptor, as it has a similar proprotion of fact to fiction and is equally relevant to modern times.
Oh yeah, you critical thinker are so hard to convince and the black people are all lying anyway.
I can see how much you'd like to find the truth because a simple google search turned up this, but I guess the BAR is not trustworthy either...
http://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol37_2010/fall2010/illegal_racial_discrimination_in_jury_selection.html
That article is written by Bryan Stevenson, the same guy who owns the EJI aka the website hosting the source in the article you used, and the one I was quoting. It does not surprise me that he is telling the same story here as on his own website.
He's still not using sources.
Is it because of your racist argument that you can't see the point of this?
"77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person" does not say that the 77% or the 13% are black or white, but statistics based on the precentage of same race crimes in each indicates the opposite of what you and your articles are trying to say it means.
You mean like you can't prove shit and you keep trying to blame black people for all problems?
Funny, I could have sowrn I was thinking something similar about you when we were debating the brexit.
My assessment of the black community's performance is based on a lack of evidence of negative outside interference, evidence you have failed to produce, and an assumption of agency: that they are not incapable of making things better for themselves. To agree with you from my point of view would be to assume that black people are incapable of bettering themselves and need outside handling to prosper, which is more racist a viewpoint than anything that has been said in this thread.
What a complete load of rubbish.
It is funny that you are trying to take apart Husars links when your own links have already made his point.
You really should read your links.
You should really make your argmuents instead of making claims. Maybe you could start with which of my links "already made his point".
...Do you ignore me on purpose? Not 10 lines amove in your post you quote me addressing the signs and protest, they are pitifully small when compared to the reaction whenever a cop kills anyone and even more pitiful when you know there is little difference in reaction between when the cops kill innocents or criminals.
Yes, because making the validity of an argument dependant on the comparative sizes of protest signs is getting so ridiculous that I don't want to waste any more time discussing this.
I feel sorry for Greyblades who patiently tries to point out the hypocracy
I feel sorry for Greyblades who patiently tries to point out the hypocracy
I'm very sorry but I'm afraid to continue to the point where I have to buy a program that can prove the size of protest signs on a picture on the internet is appropriate for the severity of the event that sparked the protest.
It's getting a bit too expensive for me at this point.
I'm also not really into wasting my time on wild goose chases while Greyblades dismisses all sources as biased based on his "feelings" that they just can't be right...
You know, my "feelings" tell me that continuing the discussion here ends up being an enormous waste of time that I will regret later because that is how similar discussions ended in the past. Stupid is when you do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results...C'est la vie...
You should really make your argmuents instead of making claims. Maybe you could start with which of my links "already made his point".
In your "James" link. Two studies.
One agrees completely with Husar.
One doesn't.
Both show you to be totally wrong though.
Little bit of advice for you , if you want to post a link to support your then views read the bloody thing first.
I'm very sorry but I'm afraid to continue to the point where I have to buy a program that can prove the size of protest signs on a picture on the internet is appropriate for the severity of the event that sparked the protest.
It's getting a bit too expensive for me at this point.
I'm also not really into wasting my time on wild goose chases while Greyblades dismisses all sources as biased based on his "feelings" that they just can't be right...
You know, my "feelings" tell me that continuing the discussion here ends up being an enormous waste of time that I will regret later because that is how similar discussions ended in the past. Stupid is when you do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results...C'est la vie...
Who needs studies, studies are often conclusions on demand when things get political.
Who needs studies, studies are often conclusions on demand when things get political.
Who needs people? People often get political and then fight to oppress one another.
Who needs people? People often get political and then fight to oppress one another.
And some just love the idea of being oppressed because there is no introspection needed as long as it can never be just your own failing. It can of course never be your own failing completily because of course there are things wrong. But if things would be better they will just look for something else, they simply need percieved racism. In the Netherlands it goes as far as trying to ruin kids-party's, I wonder how Americans would react if leftist activists (mostly white upper-class bored rich kids and their black pets who are stupid enougn to think they are invited to any birthdays party's, one will do) would go around telling to tell kids Santa-Claus is a lie and that he doesn't exist, probably just as amazed as us. That is the same for all activists, it doesn't matter, it will never be good enough. What else should keep them busy?
_
For all who furiously scream bigotry, untill you can rightfully claim that you shared a bed with a gay muslim bankrobber on parole on a gypsie camping in a rundown trailer, do I really have to listen. I did. I even managed to have a jihadi drink wine.
Seamus Fermanagh
08-19-2016, 19:12
Who needs studies, studies are often conclusions on demand when things get political.
A properly done study adds to knowledge. Decry studies that are unethical, poorly designed, or which alter/distort methodology to generate a "desired" result all you wish. Research has lifted us up a long way -- I wouldn't be quite so sweeping in your condemnation.
A properly done study adds to knowledge. Decry studies that are unethical, poorly designed, or which alter/distort methodology to generate a "desired" result all you wish. Research has lifted us up a long way -- I wouldn't be quite so sweeping in your condemnation.
Of course there are meaninful studies but I wouldn't take the integrity of the academic world for granted.
Greyblades
08-20-2016, 11:53
Yes, because making the validity of an argument dependant on the comparative sizes of protest signs is getting so ridiculous that I don't want to waste any more time discussing this.
Realizing the futility of your position is a sign of wisdom, trying to portray the issue as ridiculous to make your retreat seem less cowardly is not.
It is not the difference in signs it is the difference in damage they have inspired. One has driven people to start riots, burn cars, loot shops and commit murder in a outburst of anger, the other hasnt.
That it is the death of criminals and not children that causes the greater reaction is a damning condemnation for the priorities of the majority of the community.
To think the amount of times I hesitated to open this thread for fear that you would actually present something irrefutable and prove me wrong, I am extremely dissapointed.
To think the amount of times I hesitated to open this thread for fear that you would actually present something irrefutable and prove me wrong, I am extremely dissapointed.
The irrefutable proof you are looking for does not really exist, it's like we're standing in the middle of a forest and you look at a map and tell me that the correlation between a few trees and the green area on the map does not prove the existence of forests and blame me for being unable to provide chemical proof that the trees are indeed made out of wood in the first place.
I'm just saying that IMO you're just moving the goalposts around until it becomes impossible for me to prove this without joining the social sciences myself and conducting a myriad of studies. And even then you'd claim that I was biased the whole time anyway and wasted the last ten years of my life. I have just learned to see when an argument with you becomes pointless and I can go and find better ways to spend my time.
What you make of it or how many victories you claim is your problem as long as I don't have to chase and read studies for 50 hours only to have you proclaim that they don't convince you for some reason anyway.
Oh yeah, if you want me to show you the studies on the subject instead of newspapers citing them, here you go:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1996.9714029
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02673039508720824
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00064246.1975.11413782
http://www.jstor.org/stable/797509?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Notice anything about your goalposts yet or do I need to go on?
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ort/63/4/536/
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&uid=1999-11644-001
https://books.google.de/books?hl=en&lr=&id=CVdyi91ofYMC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=institutional+racism+study&ots=iBmHC62P4G&sig=fkG97pyqjlVUkARXhum8qDBV_Ws#v=onepage&q=institutional%20racism%20study&f=false
http://esj.sagepub.com/content/1/1/83.short
There you have your primary sources, have fun reading them. :2thumbsup:
It is not the difference in signs it is the difference in damage they have inspired. One has driven people to start riots, burn cars, loot shops and commit murder in a outburst of anger, the other hasnt.
That it is the death of criminals and not children that causes the greater reaction is a damning condemnation for the priorities of the majority of the community.
.
Bullshit
Greyblades
08-20-2016, 14:56
Oh no, dont stop there, I mean if it is so clear you dont feel the need to explain it initially it should be easy to explain to the audience why it is bullshit.
I mean I could see the argument that it isnt the majority of the community, there does seem to be a dirth of anyone above the age of 30 when I see pictures of the rioters and I've allready exhibited that there are members of the community that see the riots for the counterproductive overreactions they are.
Yes I believe I should be more discerning and not blame the entire community for the actions of the loud minority, a very good point, wish it was you making it instead of wasting my time giving pithy dismissals.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1996.9714029
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02673039508720824
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00064246.1975.11413782
http://www.jstor.org/stable/797509?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Notice anything about your goalposts yet or do I need to go on?
Yes, I cant access those, hell of a goalpost shift. Did you pay £24 for access or did you just grab the first 4 studies on google without actually even checking they were viewable?
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ort/63/4/536/
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&uid=1999-11644-001Cant read those either.
https://books.google.de/books?hl=en&lr=&id=CVdyi91ofYMC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=institutional+racism+study&ots=iBmHC62P4G&sig=fkG97pyqjlVUkARXhum8qDBV_Ws#v=onepage&q=institutional%20racism%20study&f=false
Hmm 2 stars, I wonder why the people who read it gave that. (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CVdyi91ofYMC&dq=institutional+racism+study&lr=&sitesec=reviews&redir_esc=y)
Racism is a poison. There can be no doubt about that. Shirley Better gives us all the ammunition to battle this but doesn't give the right bullets to load the weapon. Thus, what started as a noble cause to strike a blow for racial equality, will backfire. Fighting racism is not knew. Blacks have been attempting to do this since the inception and implementation of slavery. I fail to see the relevance of that chapter. Overall, the book is more about a society that Ms. Better wishes to change than a society that wishes to change itself.
This is purported to be a text book of some sort. It is a strange one written in the first person and full of silly errors. In one passage, the author is aghast that a CEO might make "400 percent" of the salary of the lowest paid worker in the company. Assuming the lowest paid worker makes minimum wage, her CEO would be making less than a bus driver in NYC. I assume she meant "400 times" the salary.
I was looking for sources for a sociology paper. My professor would fail me if I used this book.
Ouch.
Edit: my this is a promising read, the author starts out with a quote from herself.
Christ looking at the reviews on amazon for her books gives the same vibe I got reading through the people espousing Benjamin Freedman's speeches while researching for the immigration thread.
http://esj.sagepub.com/content/1/1/83.short Another purchase required.
There you have your primary sources, have fun reading them. :2thumbsup:Your primary resources are either inaccessable or obscure books that you likely havent read anyway. I'm getting the feeling the opinion you espouse is harder to actually prove than you expected.
Yes, I cant access those, hell of a goalpost shift. Did you pay £24 for access or did you just grab the first 4 studies on google without actually even checking they were viewable?
Cant read those either.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
So you don't care about the truth if it costs you anything?
And in the same sentence you blame me for not investing enough time...
Your primary resources are either inaccessable or obscure books that you likely havent read anyway. I'm getting the feeling the opinion you espouse is harder to actually prove than you expected.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I might put more effort into it but everything on the internet is a machine per default, until you can prove beyond any doubt that you're a human, why bother?
Greyblades
08-20-2016, 15:50
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
So you don't care about the truth if it costs you anything?
I dont care about a "truth" that a believer cannot prove without making the person they are trying to persuade pay a fee.
Scientology should sue institutional racism for copying thier business plans.
Oh no, dont stop there, I mean if it is so clear you dont feel the need to explain it initially it should be easy to explain to the audience why it is bullshit.
I mean I could see the argument that it isnt the majority of the community, there does seem to be a dirth of anyone above the age of 30 when I see pictures of the rioters and I've allready exhibited that there are members of the community that see the riots for the counterproductive overreactions they are.
Yes I believe I should be more discerning and not blame the entire community for the actions of the loud minority, a very good point, wish it was you making it instead of wasting my time giving pithy dismissals.
See, "Bullshit" was entirely sufficient to do the job.
Now perhaps you can apply the same process to your other postings and the huge generalisations you make which you then try to morph into a coherent point.
See, "Bullshit" was entirely sufficient to do the job.
Now perhaps you can apply the same process to your other postings and the huge generalisations you make which you then try to morph into a coherent point.
You can't me what I'm not
I dont care about a "truth" that a believer cannot prove without making the person they are trying to persuade pay a fee.
Again, your problem, it's not like you could show anything that could convince me that I'm wrong. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree and let the people riot as much as they want to then. It's too bad, for a moment here I thought by convincing you I could save the world, but it was not meant to be. :rolleyes:
Again, your problem, it's not like you could show anything that could convince me that I'm wrong. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree and let the people riot as much as they want to then. It's too bad, for a moment here I thought by convincing you I could save the world, but it was not meant to be. :rolleyes:
How do you manage to not assume this isn't a race iisue?
How do you manage to not assume this isn't a race iisue?
How can you manage to assume that I manage to assume this isn't a race iisue?
Again, your problem, it's not like you could show anything that could convince me that I'm wrong. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree and let the people riot as much as they want to then. It's too bad, for a moment here I thought by convincing you I could save the world, but it was not meant to be. :rolleyes:
How can you expect him to read your links when he doesn't even read the studies in his own links?
[QUOTE=Husar;2053710639]How can you manage to assume that I manage to assume this isn't a race iisue?r
I can''f, but what do you tbinj yourself. Someome is after trouble, this BLM is not that harmless, n srudiies but when I can see and hear them.
I can''f, but what do you tbinj yourself. Someome is after trouble, this BLM is not that harmless, n srudiies but when I can see and hear them.
I honestly don't know what "srudiies" are or how they fit into the context, but Black Lives Matter does have a point, that the movement was partially used by people who are looking for trouble is hardly surprising. A more dangerous idea is the one that every social justice movement is a fake because social issues can never be proven 100% until we can read peoples' brains and that there is somehow a social marxist conspiracy every time someone demands empathy or justice...
I honestly don't know what "srudiies" are or how they fit into the context, but Black Lives Matter does have a point, that the movement was partially used by people who are looking for trouble is hardly surprising. A more dangerous idea is the one that every social justice movement is a fake because social issues can never be proven 100% until we can read peoples' brains and that there is somehow a social marxist conspiracy every time someone demands empathy or justice...
I am not going to use words like social marxism for obvious reasons. let turn things around, can you explain to me how multiculturalism was a good idea
I am not going to use words like social marxism for obvious reasons. let turn things around, can you explain to me how multiculturalism was a good idea
I'm not sure if it was.
The thing is that the way I always understood it from the media, it was mostly about being a melting pot, respecting eachother and having multicultural art exhibits where the Africans would present the art people like you like to buy and the Dutch would present their Gouda and both would bask at the glory of the other culture's achievements and be happy to know eachother. THAT sounds like a good idea to me, what Wikipedia describes sounds more like a potential for ghettoization, although the mutual respect is apparently a core tenet and should be the basis of any community no matter how you want to call the model.
As for myself, you may notice that I don't really give much about certain models of community or the definition of multiculturalism, what I care about is basic respect and to keep in mind that people are individuals and shouldn't be locked in "communities" unless they choose to. As such I think it's just as wrong to try and stifle cultural assimilation through multiculturalism or to interprete that in a way that would give too much leeway to harmful cultural practices as it is to claim that other cultures are incompatible and should be kept out. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, after a while it may often seem like a hen and egg problem where you can endlessly talk about who made a mistake first. I tend to side with the underdog because the underdog usually has far more existential fears than the established majority that can usually afford to take a small risk. :shrug:
Nothing wrong with respecting other cultures and people from other cultures, what is wrong though is a top-down aproach where multiculturalism becomes a cause. That people from other cultures live here should just be taken as a given there is no need to anyone to assimilate. Multiculturists are like the Borg collective, it's stupid and dangerous. The islam is obviously the elephant in the room, I wonder if there would be any (homegrown) extremism in the west if we had just leave them be instead of trying to merge everything.
Nothing wrong with respecting other cultures and people from other cultures, what is wrong though is a top-down aproach where multiculturalism becomes a cause. That people from other cultures live here should just be taken as a given there is no need to anyone to assimilate. Multiculturists are like the Borg collective, it's stupid and dangerous. The islam is obviously the elephant in the room, I wonder if there would be any (homegrown) extremism in the west if we had just leave them be instead of trying to merge everything.
Thumbs up for an intelligent post, and double thumbs up for the Star Trek reference.
Nothing wrong with respecting other cultures and people from other cultures, what is wrong though is a top-down aproach where multiculturalism becomes a cause. That people from other cultures live here should just be taken as a given there is no need to anyone to assimilate. Multiculturists are like the Borg collective, it's stupid and dangerous. The islam is obviously the elephant in the room, I wonder if there would be any (homegrown) extremism in the west if we had just leave them be instead of trying to merge everything.
Wait, what?
That is like the post of a multiculturalist from what I read up on wikipedia.
Multiculturalism is the idea of letting the cultures alone in peaceful coexistence without forcing anyone to merge.
So what you just said is exactly what multiculturalists say. :dizzy2:
I must be one then. Let's make it multicultists.
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