View Full Version : Mini Mafia Game Hearthstone Mafia [Concluded]
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 01:23
Q: Is this serious/real?
100% yes. The only way it isn't is if my track was tampered with in some way, and considering this game started out with 9 players I consider that highly unlikely.
Q: Why claim now?
I was originally going to hold off until D3 considering Sooh is the most likely N2 kill, but if we got this lynch wrong it would have put us in LYLO and I want no part of that. Considering Csargo as well as the people I believe are most likely to be his partners are pushing Kage, and Kage is currently the leading candidate, I decided to claim now. This way we still got some information out of the round but everyone will (hopefully) see this in time to move their votes accordingly.
Q: Why did you track Csargo?
Because he was the most clear player. If you're mafia, you're going to assign your most clear player to do the kill.
Q: I don't believe you.
Sorry. Lynch me if you must, but you'll see my flip.
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
https://i.imgur.com/oTBgIbU.mp4
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
https://i.imgur.com/oTBgIbU.mp4
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
https://media.giphy.com/media/YLgIOmtIMUACY/giphy.gif
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 04:16
https://media.giphy.com/media/YLgIOmtIMUACY/giphy.gif
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/signaturepics/sigpic12337_1.gif:smitten:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/signaturepics/sigpic12337_1.gif:smitten:
https://i.imgur.com/C3ZVeOM.jpg
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 06:44
Good job GH! So my hunch about Csarco was right while i was wrong about Barto. I still havent lost it.Vote:Csargo
If Csargo flips scum we definetely have sometihng to work with.:2thumbsup:
Catching up, this post worries me, a lot.
Here's Dp's full amount of posts since subbing in:
(re: Manasi thinking Kage's early wall was suspicious and weird)
(re: my early takes on Csargo and Sooh being town and Kage possibly being mafia)
N1
re: Csargo saying there hasn't been much discourse going on
responding to Kage about his townreads on Csargo and Manasi
responding to Manasi directly asking him for his take on Kage
responding to Manasi about the game being low-activity
responding to Kage asking Manasi why she's so aggressive
responding to Manasi about how she left Dp out of her reads.
I don't think this is town Dp. I just don't. I get that he's rusty. I get that he's been super busy IRL. I also don't care. The thing I look for with Dp is that super pure tone. That's not a feature that really needs extended immersion in the game to make itself known, like Logic's effort for example. It just naturally rises to the surface. And it hasn't here.
I find this level of aggression from you extremely... unsettling. You are expecting me to be completely pure in tone, and also somehow think that I can get that even while not being fully in thread? Like, imo, the main thing that good tone stems from is being extremely in-sync with how the thread is feeling, and that's near-impossible to have while not being around that much. I agree that my participation here has been spotty at best, and I did not anticipate being quite this rusty when I returned to the game. Honestly the "let's throw DP under the bus 100% with complete certainty and expect him to do things that he can't/doesn't (such as have good tone while not being around)" feels extremely reminiscent of my last org game with you as scum.
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
Welp, lolme. Ignore everything I just said in my last post. Vote: Csargo
If you lied about this, I'm coming for your head tomorrow.
Not really. I find it pretty hard to read Manasi most of the time. I felt the disillusionment with the state of the game seemed genuine, I share the same sentiment to a degree, but that seemed townie to me at least. Other than that I've just gotten good vibes from her posts, the content has been good I've thought as well. It's probably more of a gut read than anything else honestly.
What do you think of her so far?
I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.
Dp101, I know you've got RL stuff, but if you could give your input on things sooner rather than later, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Yeah, sorry, trying to lay stuff out now.
I'd put you higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on you going forward than I can Dp101.
I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.
Manasi feels good at this point.
I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.
Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.
Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.
I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.
Moar attempted spew-reading attempts, since I never do this and need to get better at it, and the play is imo clearer if GH is lying so I see more value in trying to catch the scum after Csargo:
The logic read feels somewhat like providing support to a scumbuddy who has improved dramatically and trying to push that point into people's heads. If logic was town here, I feel like scum!csargo would be focussing on lacklustre prior actions rather than trying to paint a picture of improvement.
Vague Manasi read is *noted*, but not sure exactly what it means.
Tries to discredit kage via logic, in a way that strikes me as honestly weird regardless of alignment. Leaving aside the part where it's honestly fairly wrong, I'm not sure what incentive there is as either alignment to make this push based off of logic's. This would make town!logic somewhat more likely, but it's also possible that this is a wolf-team coordinating somewhat clumsily to push a mislynch (although why they wouldn't go on me is a mystery to me).
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 09:52
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.
Vote Csargo. GH has claimed to be some sort of tracker/ detective and painted Csargo scum. Its the absolutely best we have so far. If Csargo does not flip scum. We will lynch GH next.
Don't bother.
I hardclaim Tracker.
I tracked Csargo and he visited Monty last night.
Vote: Csargo
Why did you track Csargo?
If he was the most clear player, wouldn't he be the most likely player to be visited?
To track someone seems to be more profitable by going after your scum reads, no?
Thank you for the ISO Logic. Like i said earlier if you are scum. You are playing extremely well. Your process seems very good, but conclusion is wrong. You build a case against me based on connection with GH, which you seem to be doubting very much in your Iso. So you seem to be arriving into wrong conclusion with genuine thought process, unlike Manasi who seems to be trying to use momentum in order to push who she wants to be lynched. I want to hear from the only confirmed townie aka Sooh before pushing what i have in mind.
The more I read this the less I like it.
When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 11:47
The more I read this the less I like it.
When I read that it sounds like "I don't want to make any pushes on my own, but I'll look for whoever the clear person pushes and I'll say that I agree with one of those, especially if one isn't on my team"
Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 12:01
I am staunch believer of the KISS principle. If you have the most simple answer to a dilemma use it. Only if the solution is not working, find more complicated one. At this point lynching Csargo should be a no brainer. The mathematics are on the town side. No matter if GH was pulling a straight forward stupid stunt as a scum now and fake claiming a role. The town would still get a scum and afterwards the numbers would be at towns side.
I still want to hear from GH regarding his selection of tracking Csargo. I also want to hear from Csargo who appear to have been stunned by this.
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 12:27
By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?
Two of my scum reads flipped town.
Cya.
So because you were twice wrong it makes you right third time? Dont be lazy and instead make a case.
So far i see you copying what logic said earlier. Lazy, thus scummy.
Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 12:57
I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 13:02
Why did you track Csargo?
If he was the most clear player, wouldn't he be the most likely player to be visited?
To track someone seems to be more profitable by going after your scum reads, no?
Let's say Player A and Player B are mafia and one of them has to specifically carry out a kill. Player A is mostly clear, Player B isn't. Player A is probably safer to carry out the kill just in terms of there's less of a chance being tracked, roleblocked, jailed, etc. When I sent in my track I was basically always choosing between you, Csargo, and Manasi, as you three were pretty much the most clear after D1. I decided Csargo because he had even less shade on him than the other two and was the least likely to be interfered with. I also had the advantage of knowing more about the game setup than anyone else due to my role, and knew it was highly unlikely for there to be both a tracker and a roleblocker/jailkeeper in a game with 9 players. So that was another way in which Csargo's path would have been clear.
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 13:03
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
Good thinking GH.When you come through, which i believe as i dont see you as bad scum player and this what you are doing is essentially suicide if Csargo comes out town. If that is indeed the case im looking at two people. Logic, whom Csargo seemed to act in concert day one and Manasi, who is either lazy or scum.
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 13:03
I still want to hear from GH regarding his selection of tracking Csargo. I also want to hear from Csargo who appear to have been stunned by this.
Also, look at Csargo's initial reaction. He's stunned, but sad stunned. He's not fighting it. He's posting Pam gifs and playfully bantering with me. He hasn't attempted to fight back. This isn't a reaction a townie makes when they've been accused like this.
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 13:06
Good thinking GH.When you come through, which i believe as i dont see you as bad scum player and this what you are doing is essentially suicide if Csargo comes out town. If that is indeed the case im looking at two people. Logic, whom Csargo seemed to act in concert day one and Manasi, who is either lazy or scum.
My two likely partners are Dp and Manasi, I think Logic looks a little better and the way he's gone about the game seems townie. We need two clears beyond Sooh, so assuming you're one of them we need a second one to put the game on lock. Can you talk to me more about Logic?
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 13:21
GH. Look at the day 1 Logic and compare to the rest of the game. Day 1 he is bantering with Csargo, easy stuff for mafia and also voting DP with Csargo which does not lead to a lynch. After that Logic´s game is solid. Doing Iso´s and being very analythical. Between Manasi and Logic, at this point i would go with Manasi, but there is a dent at Logic, which should be pursued.
Sooh. If Csargo is scum. I was the first person to see that. I made the push towards Barto, but i was wrong. How can you accuse me of not wanting to make my own cases when that is the exact thing i have been doing the whole game. And that is the exact same thing i do every time i play these games. It is quite frustrating being called weird, intense and ..., but that i can understand, but not wanting to make my own cases. That is just blatantly wrong. Why i wanted to wait for you was because i did not want to turn this game more into direction it was going, aka people being lazy and not going through their own process.
This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.
This is interesting to me, because I consider Manasi to be one of the most likely partners so I'm definitely looking for people's takes on it (and it's why I specifically asked Csar about Manasi in the first place). That said, I'm not entirely certain I agree with your conclusion. Let's keep in mind that at the point when he answered:
a) Csargo thought he was safe/still pretty clear
b) his partner, assuming said partner was NOT Kage, was also probably safe
I would expect him to make something along the lines of this post. It seemed like smooth sailing on D2 for them, they would have gotten another mislynch, and then double LYLO would have been upon everyone on D3 where they could probably just push through one last mislynch and in the meantime clear each other. This reads to me like a little bit of a "nah she's probably fine, let's just move on" to me. Idk though.
Please go look back at the game where the three of us were scum together and compare.
This is a weird read for you to have, especially paired with coming to the conclusion that we're scum together.
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 13:38
This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.
And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.:yes:
By the way. Where is Manasi? Were you not frustrated about how slow the game was and wanted activity, but disappeared yourself. Why?
Could you please share your analyze at the players, as i cant get pretty much anything from your posts?
Yeah give me a second. I've been really busy and tried posting last night on mobile but the site loaded horribly for me so I just went to sleep.
And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.:yes:
I've absolutely been developing my own reads moreso than most people in the thread at this point, and if that's something you can't see then I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't evaded anything besides the questions in posts I literally haven't read yet lmao
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 13:43
I've absolutely been developing my own reads moreso than most people in the thread at this point, and if that's something you can't see then I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't evaded anything besides the questions in posts I literally haven't read yet lmao
Then share those reads.
So I'm put in this shitty spot where both myself and my town read are being pushed by the supposed tracker. If Csargo is scum, fine, that's fair. I didn't super lock clear him anyway. Reading both of our posts and concluding that we are potentially partners, though, is laughable. GH should know better than it. Again, it's fine since we're killing him today but I need you all to re-evaluate on me tomorrow.
Csargo's posting yesterday and last night would have been good enough to warrant a clear read from a lot of people tbh. Wifom alert, but I'm pretty sure if my scum partner gave me a reason to lock them away as town in my reads I would grab it and run.
Rest coming.
I also don't think a low impact IC dies over a tracker that could get another wolf.
Just my 0.02 at a post that stuck out strangely.
So then by the start of Day 3, both Csargo and GH will be dead and we can actually evaluate the game without him spewing that Kage's town and I'm mafia.
Good stuff.
Re: Dp, I could easily be getting bamboozled. I still think he's townier than Kage whose only real stance has been [probably] attempting to pocket GH. If GH even tried to verbalize why he thought Kage was town besides "Oh I just feel it really hard," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen or try to understand. From my perspective, though, I'm getting really pretty exclusively by two guys who are just back and forth town reading each other and could definitely be mafia together (barring the claim which is probably self resolving).
Tinfoil is partners bussing through claim but I think if they just continued on they'd have won just as easily.
Scratch that tinfoil.
Everything is fine.
Logic is spewed town by every side of this game.
Nobody's wanted to push there.
/shrug
Kagemusha
03-31-2018, 13:59
Ok. Thank you very much Manasi for that insight. Im now going to leave the keyboard and go play some pool with friends and have a go at being day time drunken, while not being at bar for more then 6 months. If i post something even more strange tonight compared to my usual. Its booze talking. Im a happy man. :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 14:08
So then by the start of Day 3, both Csargo and GH will be dead and we can actually evaluate the game without him spewing that Kage's town and I'm mafia.
Good stuff.
Re: Dp, I could easily be getting bamboozled. I still think he's townier than Kage whose only real stance has been [probably] attempting to pocket GH. If GH even tried to verbalize why he thought Kage was town besides "Oh I just feel it really hard," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen or try to understand. From my perspective, though, I'm getting really pretty exclusively by two guys who are just back and forth town reading each other and could definitely be mafia together (barring the claim which is probably self resolving).
Tinfoil is partners bussing through claim but I think if they just continued on they'd have won just as easily.
Scratch that tinfoil.
Everything is fine.
I think Kage is spewed town at this point by everyone pushing him, tbh. It's why I've gone from "I'll lay off for a day to see if I can get a better read on him" on D1 to "I think he's probably town here" today. If there's a flaw in this then let me know because I could easily be overlooking someone.
At some point today I'll go over Logic in Chess and, more pertinently, Pizza's read on him in that game. It might not be until night phase, but I'll get it done.
Kage I think at this point.
My PoE is something like this atm:
Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
Kage
Does Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?
Not everyone has pushed on Kage fwiw.
Csargo didn't really actually push at all. It's just been myself and Logic.
Half the game.
Math checks out.
Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.
Csargo, what do you think?
Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.
Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.
Csargo, what do you think?
https://i.imgur.com/Ux1pUxQ.gif
Also, look at Csargo's initial reaction. He's stunned, but sad stunned. He's not fighting it. He's posting Pam gifs and playfully bantering with me. He hasn't attempted to fight back. This isn't a reaction a townie makes when they've been accused like this.
I'm more annoyed that anything else tbh. Like on a scale of 1-10 I'm a unhappy camper.
https://i.imgur.com/dSRGJmc.gif
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
Official Tally as of #297
3 Csargo (Dp101, GH, Kage)
1 Dp101 (Logic)
Not Voting: Csargo, Manasi, Sooh
tunnel snakes rule
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
I’m honestly shocked that you think I know what I’m doing. Maybe I haven’t brought it up here much, but my personal opinion of my towngame is that it’s complete garbage. Like, I have never had any amount of confidence in my town game, and if you think this seems not like me (and, especially, not like me enough to vote me over a track result then I just don’t understand you.
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
I didn’t read it as condescending, I just think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how I view the game and myself.
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 19:50
We need at least one more vote on Csargo for me to be comfortable. There's no mechanic for an immediate "hammer" (phase ending upon majority being reached) so there's still a chance people could move off Csar onto Dp or somebody if we're not careful here.
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 19:59
Does Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?
Eh, maybe. The Dp slot hadn't done anything at that point to justify going any higher than that without questions being raised. You and Logic looked townier, Sooh was revealed to be innocent child, and I'm on the same level with Dp.
In reference to your "only Manasi and Logic pushed Kage" (which I don't feel like quoting at this point but it's directly below the one I just quoted) point, I feel like Csargo did push on him with a decent amount of prompting, and he definitely listed him at the very bottom. Do you think this was a reluctant bus attempt?
GeneralHankerchief
03-31-2018, 20:10
I don't have the time to do it before deadline today, but I plan to both reread the game overnight as well as Pizza/Logic on D1 of Chess to see if I can't lock in two clears besides Sooh. I'm dead either way once the next day phase starts, so it won't be an info dump right before deadline or anything.
Please join me/critique me on this, if there's something I miss or overlook or you disagree with my conclusions then we need to hear it. The more discussion the better.
d2 Final Tally
3 Csargo (Dp101, GH, Kage)
1 Dp101 (Logic)
Not Voting: Csargo, Manasi, Sooh
End of Day 2
Csargo was lynched.
https://i.imgur.com/xIVjSJD.png
~:grouphug:
Csargo, you are Team 5.
:sweatdrop:
Team 5 (also known as Blizzard Team 5) is the Blizzard Entertainment development team responsible for Hearthstone. Beginning as a "small and nimble" team of 15 members for much of the game's original development, the team has since grown to more than 70 members. Created specifically in order to develop Hearthstone, Team 5 is responsible for all ongoing game design.
You are the Mafia Small Indie Developer.
As a small indie team, you have no abilities.
You win when the mafia reach parity with the town, or this outcome is mechanically unavoidable.
Good luck, have fun, read the rules, PM me with any questions.
Living Players: 6
Dp101
GeneralHankerchief
Kagemusha
Logic
Manasi
Sooh
It is now Night Two.
Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule
You can post now.
I blame Zelda.
Sorry for not voting guys.
I blame Zelda.
Sorry for not voting guys.
Doesn’t matter, we got it right anyway! Thx Gh
9 player game, probably 2 scums (unless the OP actually specifies). I assume GH is going to die tonight, given his stellar peek. Plenty of people who thought Csargo was towny though, but it would be worth looking into.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 00:22
So I went into Chess and looked for Pizza's take on Logic. If you don't remember why I'm looking at Chess specifically, it's because Pizza had the guy dead to rights as mafia pretty much right out of the gate. This is quite possibly one of the most painful dives I've ever done. That game was something else. Anyway, cutting through the tremendous amounts of chaff, here's Pizza's takes on Logic's gameplay:
(I won't be putting these in a spoiler because I want everyone to see them as Logic's baseline so they can compare)
Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.
Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.
Solving and pointed. I think Logic is in an uncomfortable position and can't really justify his Slaan read. So he made an oops here and Kage is all over it.
This is part of a larger post and I cropped out the irrelevant parts. A big part of the read is that Logic isn't really able to justify his reads on people. Don't think that applies here, but I want to go back over Logic's posts in this game to check myself on that (maybe somebody else could do that?).
By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.
That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".
That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.
Click through to the post if you want to see the quoted context. We're looking for depth and stuff that's more than just generic thought from Logic in this game.
He's not a huge talker, but he has actual thoughts he can defend with reasoning, offered freely and specifically, when he's town.
It looks similar but it's the difference between Logic and a cardboard cutout of Logic. Take your picture with him, you won't see him again after today.
Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.
I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.
I don't think I'd define his play here as "tensing up"? The isos could be a smokescreen but eh. Not likely?
Passive aggressive. If he were hiding, he wouldn't be undercutting or even solving.
His intent is malevolent here, not hiding.
He would find someone who won't push back and vote them, and then not post.
This is in response to Dp asking Pizza why Logic is just mafia and not a town power role. Very relevant, I think this might cut to the heart of the matter.
This post is why Logic is never a town pr here.
This route of smearing Winston is not Logic's usual town fare, and it's not straightforward.
Logic is very straightforward.
This is Logic implying Winston is scum in a roundabout way, hands off. That's not his MO as town, and definitely not as a town power role.
Thanks for looking at Logic, but I think you missed one of my biggest points and didn't look for it.
You saw his posts in another game as town, when he accused people, does he not consistently just say this post is scummy this person is a wolf I think this makes you more townie, his questions if any are more direct and mean what they appear to mean on the surface?
That's a highly highly consistent quality of his town game. He doesn't ask rhetorical questions or questions that undermine people in that manner, he doesn't do passive aggression. He's not highly aggressive but when he does it, it's pointed, and in fact, he does far more aggression (despite how mild it feels) in games than defending himself or anyone else.
And all of that solving is pointed and direct, not passive aggression.
I get how you're arriving at the conclusion that I'm just tunneling because I am, but if I'm tunneling on the right person and you're missing the biggest reason why it's right, I feel like we missed the chance for our minds to arrive at the same place.
I won't ask you to look again, but it was a massive part of what I wanted you to look for and I don't think you were looking for it. You found other stuff and I believe you're town, but I still think you missed the damning stark difference.
This is Pizza's response to my defense of (my mafia partner) Logic.
--------------------
I think this is enough of a baseline to go off of. The key points to look for from Logic are:
1) Passive-aggressiveness vs. directness when making cases
2) Depth of posts
3) Tensing up/getting uncomfortable in the thread
I'll check out Logic's posts here later, I have to go do IRL stuff for a while.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 04:42
Here are all of Logic's posts in Chess (minus some fluff at the start and an edit or two), when he was mafia. I'm a bit drunk so I'm not going to provide commentary. Click through for context if you're interested.
If thats hiw you welcome newcomers, I guess I'm thankful that for my first game here you were unable to vote for me.
I admit, I am bad at chess. Maybe mafia too. Not sure what you see that looks suspicious in the 5 (guessing) posts I've made.
Well, he does have experience in the job.
***Pizza starts scumreading him here***
Option 3 is the least desirable choice.
Not ready to attempt option 2 yet, no reads.
I can live with option 1. I'll just be sad I didn't get to play long.
I don't get it. I've not seen pizza play like this before. I know everything he does has a purpose, but here it feels like he is just playing by the seat if his pants. I'm confused, but I don't know if am am more or less so than Dp.
Why do you keep saying that?
Touché. I see you use my turn of a phrase against me!
EDIT
My wife would very much you not claim me as a suit.
I am off to bed. This start has given me plenty to think on.
I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and
Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?
Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.
Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.
Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.
Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?
Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.
Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)
His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.
Vote: Kagemusha[b/]
One seemingly random vote for something very minuscule, and not related to the game? Yeah, I thought it was a tell. Especially since I don't see Slaan as a wolf.
I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.
Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.
Please see the above quoted post.
[B]Isolated posts of a single poster.
Well, I think your avatar looks smug. :tongue:
If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?
Zack
Unless I missed something, only GH and Winston have given Kage a townread.
They seem to know him, whereas I recognize his name. I'm not putting a ton of stock into other's town reads just yet, but this gulf between myself and those 2 tells me either I am way off in my suspicions, or should be looking closer at all 3.
Got busy with RL, and now have almost 1000 posts. Sheesh. If I survive, I should be more productive on the next day phase.
I'm going to park my vote on Choxorn, because it might mean I survive the day. If I don't, then C'est la vie.
If nothing else, I gotta do the most town thing I can, and save someone I know is a townie (me.)
Unvote: Kage
Vote: Choxorn.
The one caveat is that Logic was under heavy pressure for quite a bit of D1 in that game so he might have been thrown off his game. THAT SAID. Without having looked back at Logic's posts in this game I think he's town.
I hope to lock that read in tomorrow and then we only need one more clear to lock the game.
Obviously all input is STRONGLY encouraged.
Good shit.
Still waiting for GH to do something even close to what he did to read Logic for Kage.
Too many people to lynch with too many question marks.
Dp/Sooh pls do something this is driving me a little insane.
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
I'll be at home doing date of birth things for the majority of the day tomorrow, but I should be looking through thread during down time.
Should be around.
It'll be fine.
Kagemusha
04-01-2018, 09:15
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
I'll be at home doing date of birth things for the majority of the day tomorrow, but I should be looking through thread during down time.
Should be around.
It'll be fine.
Im hung over and not feeling too much for posting anything. But i say that both posts above this one of mine are shit posts. You cant discredit me both ways do it or dont. I found Csargo and i found you as well.
Kagemusha
04-01-2018, 09:16
Sorry three posts above mine are shit posts and that is what they are.
Kagemusha
04-01-2018, 09:17
Vote: Manasi
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
Manasi, I don't know if you read the flip posts at all, but I'm literally mod confirmed IC.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 15:03
Happy Easter everyone, happy birthday Manasi! :medievalcheers:
Keeping in mind the above criteria I've set for Logic, here are some of his posts in this game:
:confused:
Vote: El Barto
First off we have an immediate response to El Barto's coding persona. Nothing beyond it, and then there are a couple of explanations as to his edited post plus a revote etc that I'm not going to post here. In itself I don't necessarily think we can get anything off of this.
Vote: Snerk.
There is no way he should know I'm part Scottish. The lab has yet ti verify Argentinean.
Later on he moves his vote over to Snerk, still without an actual reason. Hm.
I gotta say, I am "thanking" Csargo more than I thought I would have. I'm going to guess it is based upon our having a similar sense of humor.
"Zack used confuse on Logic! It's super effective!"
Wait.... wrong franchise.
Still nothing...
I've always thought it was pronounced the same as "sue," because when I first saw the name, I initially thought it said "soothe."
Getting actually a little worried.
Do you agree with my assessment that we share a similar sense of humor?
I typically don't watch videos at work, so if there was humor content within, I had no idea. I assumed it was just the end cutscene to Ocarina of Time based on the thumbnail.
It's 5 am here, but in case you your questions are not jokes:
I took "ama" to mean "ask me anything."
Not you.
Probably not.
Souls. He controls the black market on this corner of the blog-o-sphere.
Logic where's your direct stuff?
***There's some more conversation with Kage that's not really game-relevant that I don't feel like posting here***
Very vague buckets:
Townish
Logic - Myself, naturally I am going to say I am town.
Manasi - seems townier than usual, and I usually suspect Manasi early and often.
Sooh - Feels natural; I can detect no hidden agenda.
Nullish
Csargo - Right now, I'm wearing blinders on him.
Kagemusha - "Bating" for reaction sounds good, but it's also I might do in a followup game if I were scum.
Scumish
El Barto - Slightly confused by the 848% earlier, but I'm assuming it was a typo not something sinister. His coded flavor-text may be what is pinging my scum-dar, but I can't identify why he feels less than genuine this early.
Monty - Seeing his last game has made me super wary of him, and he is in my "usual suspects" bucket until proven otherwise.
GeneralHankerchief - Too little content to base anything on. But I could see a "chaos³" GH this early.
Snerk/Dp101 - Snerk/Dp101 have given little to go on, but I can't find a real reason to vote elsewhere yet.
FIRST ACTUAL READS. Kind of more than anything we saw in Chess but I still wouldn't exactly call this "good". There's not really any passive aggressiveness to detect here, but not much directness either. Let's see if he hits the other criteria points when following up with this.
***Csargo exchange***
I don't get all the hate for sudoku, it's not that bad.
Monty, Logic, and Dp101 bottom tier for me at this point. Feel like that's where we should be focusing. All have been underwhelming/ooc in my extremely educated extraordinary opinion.
Where did the Sudoku conversation come from?
I thought I was being clever...
I think you have Manasi/Sooh too high tbh.
It was in reference to the Barto votes, should have stated that initially. gg me.
Maybe you were, but it flew right over my head.
(Assuming you were punning a little about "pseudo." If not, then I still don't get it.)
This feels a little too awkward to be partnery, maybe? Like they're tripping over each other a decent amount in this. Also the fact that Logic didn't really respond to the fact that Csargo was suspecting him is... meh. I wish my conclusion was stronger at this point.
***The isos begin***
Typical Manasi. But note her inclination.
Attempt at solving. I like this.
Not sure how to take this. I wanna give this positive points, but I could see this as potentially forced.
Solving, or setting up doubt in GH? I'm presently inclined to believe the former.
This made me laugh. Null.
This is in response to GH removing his vote from El Barto, who is currently voting for Manasi.
Votes with original inclination. Could be playing "consistent" as scum, or sticking with original read. Overall, I think this paints Manasi as more likely town than scum.
This is Logic taking a look at Manasi's posts. He comes out with a townread on her despite seeing both sides, so overall I think this looks reasonably decent for Logic in terms of evaluating it off the criteria Pizza laid out in Chess.
Please see post #102, which clarifies my manasi opinion, and my post prior to this one, which is Manasi's ISO.
This is in response to my question about his earlier placement of Manasi.
SNERK/DP ISO COMING:
I agree with this here. :'(
Joke for a null.
Joke for a null.
Replying to a vote from Sooh with a vote for monty.
Joke for null
Null
Strongly agrees with Manasi's "Kage's wall-o-text random"
Agrees with GH concerning Csargo and Sooh's towniness, & Kage's mafia-ness. GH also slightly puts Manasi in the town camp. Not sure what parts DP agrees with or not.
Now, the first thing I'll say is that Logic never made these posts in Chess - however, Chess was also a much, much higher volume than this game, so I'm not sure how much this applies. What I will say is that none of this is forced. He's not trying to shade Dp here, just pointing out all of the posts and saying how it's pretty much null on all of them. I'd expect mafia!Logic to try to force something here, probably in an indirect way.
There's a short exchange with me, asking for clarification on one of the points I made, that I'm not going to put here.
Presently, Barto is voting Manasi, and appears to be offline. The latter explains his lack of self-defense.
This is in response to Kage questioning why Barto isn't defending himself. Again, nothing really passive-aggressive.
*****DAY ONE ENDS*****
Prior to this post of mine now, the posts counts are as follows:
Logic - 23
Csargo - 22
GH - 16
Narrator - 14
Kage -12
El Barto -12
Sooh - 11
Manasi - 8
Montmorency - 6
Snerk/DP combined - 5/3, 8 combined.
Judging off of this alone, I am running on the theory that there is one mafia above El Barto, and one below.
This is the first post in the night phase and I think it looks ~okay for Logic. It doesn't mean much but again, he's just putting it out there without reservation, really. It's more of the intent behind the post than the actual content for me right now.
I'd say its better than 50/50 that one scum is fairly active, and another is cruising under the radar. It's exactly what I'd be advocating for right now if I were scum.
GH also doubled his posts between my two mentions. Look at his first 8 posts. 1 or 2 have some reasonable content, the rest are nothing of real note.
First line: A response to Kage asking him about his postcount theory. Second line: responding to Monty about GH's "having too little content to judge". Hmph. I kind of wish Logic had named names here in terms of suspects. At least he's sticking with the theory though, think that's good for him.
Sorry about that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am unusually busy at work today. I'll have some content before EON.
Responding to Manasi about the low level of content in the game.
LOGIC WALL TIME BELOW:
Apologies in advance. This will be a wall.
This is the second time I've quoted this post, but something reads off. Here are some more perceptions of it.
If Monty is scum:
1.) I highly doubt GH is as well.
2.) Pocketing Manasi looks likely
Curious about Kage, Sooh, and DP reads. Not just because they are different from mine (read more below on Sooh) but also because there doesn't seem to be much content to it.
With no other context, I would be reading this as (scum)Manasi is pocketing me or the (town)Manasi feels like she is being pocketed by yours truly. Her follow-ups look different from the Manasi I am used to seeing; this is more effort from her than I recall ever before. WIM, methinks?
If Manasi doesn't suspect Kage, color me surprised. I certainly do. However, rhetorical questions are the best kinds of questions. Just like being technically correct is the best kind of correct.
New Postcount update
^1 Csargo - 40 (+18)
^6 Manasi - 30 (+22)
v2 Logic - 26 (+3)
-- GH - 26 (+10)
^1 Kagemusha - 20 (+7)
v1 Zack - 14 (0)
v2 El Barto - 12 (0)
v1 Sooh - 12 (+1)
^1 Snerk/DP - 16* (+8)
v1 Montmorency - 11 (+5)
Previous count, for reference
If I am the nightkill, I suspect Csargo or Monty, for comments made in past games that I cannot seem to find at the moment. It depends on how long their memory is for random things I've said. But, I ONLY suspect Csargo if I am the nightkill. He's yet given me pause otherwise.
If I survive the night I will do more ISOs starting with the lowest posters I have yet to tackle, with an update on those I have gotten to if possible.
For now, settle for Sooh's ISO:
Note this post for later in this ISO. Votes Snerk. Snerk's response is to vote Monty while quoting Sooh, and this poduces the following from Sooh:
NAI
Responding to Barto's "coding" posting style. NAI.
NAI, but keep note of this for also later in the ISO.
Respoding to Kage's vote summary in post #34. Kage 'thanks' the post.
With about 6 hours to go, Sooh quotes the countdown timer.
NAI
NAI
NAI
Responding to my joke. At least someone got it.
The longest post by Sooh yet. She's responding to Manasi, who asked her a direct question about what she was thinking.
I don't know Kage well enough to know if "that wall" is weird for anyone but him. It looks kinda like some of the stuff I do. But drawing attention to it again after the fact does seem odd, and out of place to me.
This is the second time Sooh has claimed to be distracted by real life. (Zelda, and now Shetland) This could be a real legitimate answer, as we haven't had an Org Mafia game in months. But for now, this strikes me as a tad suspicious. I see I had rated Sooh too townie initially. Without doing Kage's ISO, I could see a Sooh/Kage team pretty easily.
My suspects right now are Sooh -> Kage -> Monty
I would click this one through for context, there's a decent amount to digest here.
So obviously the effort is leaps and bounds ahead of anything Logic did in Chess, even factoring in the volume/fact that he was under immense pressure right out of the gate. In terms of the content, it's decent. I can't do any better than "decent" unfortunately. I do think there is directness with his accusations present, but not as much as I'd like. Read for it yourself and decide.
*****DAY TWO START*****
Well, that was not expected. Two of my top 3 suspects are mechanically cleared in one update. Completely back to the drawing board.
(Monty and Sooh). Kind of like this.
Wait; Innocent Child? That doesn't seem to fit with the Hearthstone theme at all. I'm not mechanically clearing Sooh just yet.
I REALLY like this post. It's a bit of a derpclear but I'll allow it. Feel like mafia's more likely reaction is to ask about it in scumchat or something. Or just take it on faith since it's the host reaffirming what the mafioso already knows: Sooh is clear.
Clarification: I meant I wasn't changing my opinion on Csargo if I was not the nightkill. The nightkill being me would have led me to believe that Csargo was scum, due to my statement in an earlier game that "I consider it a personal win to be the nightkill D1" or something similar. Csargo at the time said something to the effect of "I hope to let you win when I am scum."
Yeah: He's still null, so I still don't suspect him, but I'm not taking my eyes off either. He's yet given me pause, but I haven't seen something oozing towniness. I am positive I did not say "he's fine."
My gaze was going to be focused on Monty/Sooh/Kage, as they were my top suspects, but it looks like I have one worth looking at.
Above two posts were an exchange with me asking him about Csargo.
KAGE ISO BELOW:
First post: not super content driven. Could be an analysis, could be a smokescreen. Sooh called this weird for anyone but Kage earlier, so this may be worth investigating further. Vote for GH tells little at this point.
Replying to GH about his feelings upon getting a role. Talks about being sentimental. If I knew more about Kage, this might be a better datapoint. As it stands, this reads like it could be partners speaking.
Replyng to two of GH's posts. (GH compliments Kage's mafia skills, comments on being sentimental, and comments on Csargo and Sooh being likely town, Manasi just shy of that level) Removes vote from GH calling him likely town because he liked his reaction. Reads Manasi as "possibly confused scum, but town for now", and gives reads on Csargo and Logic (myself,) hinting he thinks we are possible scum partners or otherwise linked. I find the latter to be mechanically impossible with this few number of players. I'm casting significant suspicion on Kage for this. It also leads my to think that GH is Kage's most likely partner, for now. Pending GH's ISO, we'll see, but so far I'm 1 for 3, and my 1 correct wasn't solid.
Explains his intent. +town points, but possible ruse as scum to repeat
Responding to Csargo, who is critical of Kage's list. NAI.
Encourages GH to push Barto. (GH agrees.) If these guys are a scum team, this is brazen. Teaming seems less likely now.
Banter with me about my grammar nazi traits.
Asks me a direct question, and I post my "vague buckets" response.
Near EOD post about Barto.
He answers his own question moments after I answer it for him.
More banter with GH. I repeat myself, these two feel teamed, but I know for a fact that GH is smarter than this, and I suspect Kage is as well. If teamed, this is super brazen.
EOD
Responding to my postcount analysis. Probing?
DP townreads Csargo and Manasi, the latter everyone seems to have done so, and Kage is asking for reasons. I give Kage town points for this.
Responding to Manasi's query. I'm not convinced that Kage did a whole lot of legwork in the day-phase, but maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. I saw one attempt to ferret out mafia that didn't work all that well, and Kage agrees that his plan didn't return any positive results.
Responding to Manai's plight about multiquotes. I would normally like this question, and probably pose it myself, but because I am seeing Kage through a mafia-filter, this looks suspect to me.
G**D*** it. This is good, but makes it harder for me to read Kage. This I like. Mafia or Town, I like this sentiment. And It's hard for me to read this as mafia. I'm going to give him a "good sportsman" read here, because this tells me nothing otherwise. There may be info here, but I will not be able to read anything into this beyond "Hey Kage, is a cool dude."
NAI
Responding to GH's question about who he suspects before the kill comes in.
Makes a claim about being consistent. Thats more wolf thinking, in my book, but it could just be how Kage shapes his worldview. After the Barto flip, he is unsure about his previous reads.
He mentions me (he likes my ISOs, is convinced if I am Mafia I am playing well) and Csargo he says he can never read properly, so apply direct pressure. He admits to omitting Sooh, and says she may be slipping under the radar. If wolf, this is a setup to deep-threat mislynch, methinks? I'm unsure, but colored glasses have me thinking about it like that. Says Manasi is masking with behavior (I feel this is Manasi's best town game so far, so this gives Kage a mafia point in my ledger.) I agree that DP/Snerk did not give him much to go on. Ends with his assessment of Monty, which also looks like "I can't read him unless_____." Tells GH he will get him, if he is indeed mafia GH can't hide from Kage. Asks for more to work with. Yup, we all need that.
Csargo sarcastically says he deserves more heat because Kage specifically can't read him. Kage suggests I do Csargo's iso soon (maybe later; 30+ posts to quote, compile, and analyze, and I don't have time for that right now.)
EON[b]
Responding to Manasi's laughter. Not sure what to make of this interaction at all. Manasi might be gloating (the first potential mafia-sign I've seen from her) and Kage seems to be keeping his cards close to his chest. Could go either way from this.
Here he shades Manasi for parroting me. The second possible Manasi scum sign, and a second ISO of her may bear fruit. But, Kage isn't making a good case here either: He's inferring something that Manasi does not seem to be saying herself. (she looks to be attempting a vote, but she has only bolded Kage's name, thus not actually voting for him. Not sure if honest mistake due to other-site habits, or something else. Kage picks up on this as well, and calls Manasi scummy directly.
Not yet ready for a vote, but leaning Kage and GH.
I'm running out of steam but this is a much better effort from Logic than the last iso. I think it shows a good amount of depth of thought and he's directly confronting somebody who's already under a good amount of suspicion. His reads haven't had the best accuracy this game, but I do feel like his process is coming from a town perspective.
Just so this doesn't get lost. After reading the ISO, hes been shading Manasi from nearly the beginning, but not voting for her. So I will [B]Vote: Kage now, but I want to make sure you all see that I think he's a pretty swell dude. If I am wrong, Thunderdome me, because clearly I am not helping town.
So, I can't shake help but shake the feeling that GH and Kage are teamed, but here is the biggest evidence AGAINST the theory that I can find:
------------------------------------------------------------
Day One, Final Tally
3 El Barto:skull: (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)
2 Montmorency:skull: (Dp101/Snerk, Manasi)
2 Dp101 (Logic, Csargo)
1 Manasi (El Barto:skull:)
Not Voting: Sooh
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no good reason I can think of for both scum to be on a D1 wagon mislynch and kill the only other person on the same wagon the following night. I'll have to ISO GH next.
And here he walks his own theory back a bit. Good stuff overall.
***After I claim***
Posting from mobile; expect errors.
I don't like this post.
Hyperbole follows: You might be rusty, but you absolutely know what you are doing. You don't get nominated to the mafia championship if you were clueless.
I like this post, and it somewhat mitigates my comments on the previous post I quoted, but this could be SO trying to pocket what looks like a pretty clear townie.
There are enough people voting for csargo that I don't beleive I need to do so as well. But I am willing to go on the record and Vote: Dp101.
Clarification to the bolded: I didn't want to sound snarky or condescending, so I added the "hyperbole follows." And as soon as I post it, I think it makes it sound more snarky and condescending. Apologies if that is how you read it. That is not my intent.
Dp, you are skilled, and that post I dislike does not seem like you. That is why I am calling it specifically out.
CONCLUSION:
The iso could have been better, but going off Pizza's criteria I think Logic is pretty solidly within the town camp here.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 15:05
I need to go do Easter stuff now, I hope to be in the thread for a while before I die and give thoughts on Kage/Manasi/Dp.
Here's what I don't want to happen though: Don't take my word for gospel. I'm going to die tonight and Sooh is going to die N3. In that time (if we don't get the second mafioso this coming day phase), there needs to be more interaction and threadwork. I will give my thoughts - hopefully - but I do not want that to be the final word on the matter. This game is going to be won or lost on what the living, noncleared players do.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 17:27
I sort of like this post, a decent amount.
Dp, you might not be able to answer until after daystart, but what about this post did you like?
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 17:36
Good post and good reaction. You seem townish. A Mafia GH would likely not have jumped into this very weird post of mine, but avoided it. What else. Monty seems interested.+town. Manasi similarly, but could also be a confused scum player. Town for now. Csargo and Logic, no reaction. Scum? Connection? DP101 also sensing oddity of the post. Seems good. But, El Barto, talking about me, but not to me. Do i sense a suggestion for others pointing at my post, while not committing really. Best vote by far now: Unvote and Vote: El Barto
There was no point in reacting, you've basically condensed down what has happened so far, which is basically nothing, and made it into a list. I don't think there's much to say really.
Ok. Thank you for the answer. :yes:
I don't think this is particularly partner-y from Csargo and Kage, it seems like Kage is doing his own thing, Csargo sort of shades it, and Kage goes "ok thanks for noticing but I'm not done yet, thanks for the extra data point in the meantime." I feel like, were Kage and Csargo paired, this conversation either wouldn't have taken place or it would have a greatly altered form.
Manasi, I don't know if you read the flip posts at all, but I'm literally mod confirmed IC.
Yeah I didn’t know that I posted shade on you I was also quite drunk lmao.
Think most people would be able to tell I’m incredibly far out of my mafia range right now. It could be as easy as Dp/Csargo or something but if Dp flips town I’m gonna fuckin’ go guns blazing at Kage.
Those posts weren’t shit don’t be mean :(
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 17:45
Manasi, here's what I articulated about Kage in Chess (ignore the fact that I was mafia in that game, it was still a legitimate read):
I'm most confident with my read on Kage, probably due to the whole "we've been playing together for 11 years thing". :tongue: Kage as scum, while he can certainly get down in the trenches when he needs to, tends to default more to the "consensus builder" type where he skates by, is friendly with everyone, and then cuts your throat at night. Town Kage says what's on his mind and I think there's a marked less concern for his own survival. I actually think he's lynched more as town than as mafia.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 17:54
There's like. A 25% chance that I switch it up to Dp and make it go 2/2/2.
Maybe.
Vote:Dp101
Official Tally as of #125
3 El Barto (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)
2 Montmorency (Dp101/Snerk, Manasi)
2 Dp101 (Logic, Csargo)
1 Manasi (El Barto)
Not Voting: Sooh
tunnel snakes rule
So... this is looking pretty good for Dp. I had just articulated the fact that I could move to Dp, I'm very well known for vote shifts around EOD... and Csargo goes after Dp, putting him in danger. This was both my and Csargo's final posts before EOD, so if I had pulled a CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS then Csargo would have lost a buddy.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 18:12
Why did you think Barto was scum?
I mean there was never any reason to vote Barto imo, I have no idea wth happened here.
feels $ sudo man...
Who do you think looks bad on his wagon then?
All of them. Monty is probably more suspicious to me than GH/Kage, but it's pretty close. Probably should have voted him over Dp101, but mistakes were made.
Here's a Manasi/Csargo exchange from the start of N1. I wouldn't go as far to say it's partnery, but it's definitely not "not partnery".
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 18:16
Unfortunate, and here I thought this was a game of discourse, but apparently it's a game of vague statements that are indecipherable.
This is generally the impression I get from the thread overall btw. Honestly only people I feel confident townreading are Csargo and Manasi.
Hi Dp101! What do you base your confidence about Csargo and Manasi?
Both are obviously engaged with the game and feel like they are genuinely interested in solving the game, rather than just going through the motions.
Csargo/Dp/Kage.
I'm basically not commenting on this stuff at this point, just dumping it for reference.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 18:31
DP can you do me a favor and read Kage's posts for me and tell me what you think? There isn't really a lot there so it should be easy.
Need more reads itt and less random stuff.
Funny coming from me, isn't it?
I mean I think his posting style is bizarre and I don’t understand it, but that’s been true any time I’ve played with him, so not really sure if I know how to read him.
I did some legwork during last day phase. It just did not bear fruit at least yet. Did you not understand what i tried to achieve, which i explained to GH already. As you suggest that there is lot of beef to work with. I am all ears. (Btw i hate posting with cell as im couple hundred km from home.)
Is this the legwork you were referring to?
When I look at this it just comes across as summary and rhetorical questions that nobody ever answered. How is that actual work? Especially if you haven't yielded anything from it?
Is the only reason you voted on Barto because he didn't directly address you? That's what it's seeming.
You and GH both decided your lynch based on a POE.
You had the following:
Town: Manasi, Monty, GH
Mafia: Csargo, Logic
Which left a POE of Barto and Sooh (who has addressed you // you have made no effort to respond to)
Although she has a town read on you for "being intense" or whatever, that in no case would have much of a tell on her own alignment.
I just don't understand why you made the decision that you did when it seemed like Barto was at least interacting well with other people and someone like Sooh fluffed and posted ever so sporadically (no offense Sooh, think you're > rand town but I would have voted you over Barto if given the choice).
Manasi's looked good in this game re: tone and pushes and whatnot, but she probably has the worst associatives.
GeneralHankerchief
04-01-2018, 19:14
So let's summarize the above.
---------
My track bought us one phase of time. We have six living players, five once I'm killed, one of whom is mafia. We have two chances to get this right. Assuming I'm dead, we'll have Sooh, Logic, Kage, Manasi, and Dp alive. In a perfect world, we can clear three of these people and the game will be locked.
Sooh is mechanically clear. That's one.
Logic, I think, is clear. I think he's out of his scum range, though I would like to see him continue posting and not just coast off this. There's a possibility he may have been able to change his meta between Chess and now, but everything in that Pizza iso says that's just not who Logic is as a person, so I think it's more likely we're just seeing town!Logic here. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but he also deserves to win the game if this is the case. So that's two.
The third is harder and I can't do it with confidence, so I leave it to you guys.
---------
Dp101 has been generally unimpressive all game, which I think he'd freely admit to. I just want to see more from him. There are two things in his favor: First, the fact that Csargo voted him late on D1 when I was threatening to also do so, which would have put Dp in the outright lead. Second, this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053774984&viewfull=1#post2053774984), which was his initial reaction to seeing my claim. If he's mafia there, the "if you're lying, I'm coming after you tomorrow" is unnecessary and well done - to me it smacks of good townie paranoia. However, the more I think about it, I'm turning around theories in my head of Dp giving Csargo the OK to bus him there on D1 especially if he realizes that he won't be able to contribute much and it would hold up well throughout the game. So as much as I'd like to, I can't clear Dp for Csargo's treatment of him there.
Manasi has had really good tone throughout the game, bringing energy and drive to move the game forward. It's a big mark in her favor for sure. However, as I discussed in an earlier post, she has the worst associatives of the Big Three. Kage and Csargo were mutually scumreading each other to some extent, and Csargo also has that Dp vote near EOD1 that I just talked about. In a game of this size and this activity level, where we're all friends, if you roll mafia with somebody would you try to bus them or would you want to work with them, keep each other alive, and laugh as the town shoots itself in the foot? In addition, I think Manasi's subtly been twisting some of the facts in this game to suit her narrative: for example shading my EOD1 process (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053774801&viewfull=1#post2053774801) when I clearly laid it out in a POE here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053774767&viewfull=1#post2053774767), or saying how Csargo didn't really push on Kage here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053775037&viewfull=1#post2053775037) when literally the post right before that one was her quoting Csargo's reads list where he had Kage at the very bottom.
Kage has probably been the biggest point of contention throughout the entire game. A lot of people have been pushing him for generally strange posting from the very start, which, yeah, that very first summary of his wasn't good, and his process to solve the game hasn't been particularly easy to follow. That said, I think he has pretty good associatives. Both Csargo and a likely partner went after Kage over the course of the game, and - as Kage has been quick to point out - he was really the only one suspicious of Csargo before I came out with my track result. Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053774871&viewfull=1#post2053774871) is where he first outlined these suspicions. Csargo immediately fired back, but the argument didn't really go anywhere and quickly dissipated. The thing that makes me pause is both that, and the fact that Kage never actually made a case on Csargo, like he did on Manasi. Kage is a very good scum player and thrives in this kind of environment, so I wouldn't put it past him to cast some low-level suspicion on his buddy while still making sure the main focus stayed elsewhere.
--------
So that's where I'm at. This is probably going to be my last post, and it's going to come down to the rest of you guys to get this right. You're going to have to talk it out and interact with each other. All three candidates have pluses and minuses, and hopefully I've done a decent job of laying them out.
It's been fun, all. Happy Easter and good luck. :bow:
Dp, you might not be able to answer until after daystart, but what about this post did you like?
The Kage read, mostly. Felt like mafia would just make the read and move on, not talk about how odd it was.
Think most people would be able to tell I’m incredibly far out of my mafia range right now. It could be as easy as Dp/Csargo or something but if Dp flips town I’m gonna fuckin’ go guns blazing at Kage.
Those posts weren’t shit don’t be mean :(
Agree fully, I have no idea what kage is doing, this feels completely different to past games, making me decently confident in him not being town.
Not quoting because mobile, but I find it weird how in GH’s big wall on everyone my posts with actual analysis in them are ignored, and instead the only post that gets picked up is barely 2 sentences. Probably nothing, but, there’s a tiny part of me that feels like the possibility of GH fpsing and bussing is not out of the question.
End of Night 2
GeneralHankerchief was killed.
He was mafia!
:laugh4:
Should the competitive community ban Nat Pagle?
What's sad is that back then, Blizzard nerfed a card that was going to nerf itself as time went on.
https://i.imgur.com/B2GZQ5E.png
:fishing:
GeneralHankerchief, you are Nat Pagle.
:7scubadiver:
The purpose of Nat Pagle is to gain a draw advantage over your opponent while acting as a wall. He is fairly hard to kill early game (turn 2) and, throughout the game, can give a large advantage to the player who controls him. If used well he can be buffed and will be a great resource all game long. This card also works exceptionally well after being stealthed in a rogue deck.
You are the Town Odd-Night Tracker.
On odd nights (Night 1, 3, 5, etc.), track another player to see whom they visit, if anyone.
You win when both of the mafia are eliminated.
Good luck, have fun, read the rules, PM me with any questions.
Nerf History!
Patch 1.0.0.4944 (https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.0.0.4944) (2014-03-11): Now reads: At the start of your turn, you have a 50% chance to draw an extra card. Previously read: At the end of your turn, you have a 50% chance to draw a card.
Patch 1.0.0.3388 (https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.0.0.3388) (2013-06-22): Now has 4 Health, down from 5.[2 (https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Nat_Pagle#cite_note-2)]
Living Players: 5
Dp101
Kagemusha
Logic
Manasi
Sooh
It is now Day Three.
Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule
You can post now.
Well, honestly not sure where to go from here. Logic is probably clear, I trust Manasi, sooh is IC so I guess Kage is all I have? Going to wait a bit for others to weigh in first, before I vote anyone.
GH is right to want to put more pressure on me. If I am mafia, I will crack. I think Chess was my only Org mafia game, but Pizza and GH were not wrong about my mafia tells. If you think I've gotten leagues better in the span of one game, I'm flattered, but I don't think anyone can change their performance level that much, that quickly.
Just don't spend all your time examining me. Statistically, you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting the last mafia by guesswork alone.
I'll have more to add on Monday, but right now I feel like Dp is a touch worse than Kage, and Manasi feels very town to me.
Not quoting because mobile, but I find it weird how in GH’s big wall on everyone my posts with actual analysis in them are ignored, and instead the only post that gets picked up is barely 2 sentences. Probably nothing, but, there’s a tiny part of me that feels like the possibility of GH fpsing and bussing is not out of the question.
Bussing?
He's a flipped villager dude.
GH is right to want to put more pressure on me. If I am mafia, I will crack. I think Chess was my only Org mafia game, but Pizza and GH were not wrong about my mafia tells. If you think I've gotten leagues better in the span of one game, I'm flattered, but I don't think anyone can change their performance level that much, that quickly.
Just don't spend all your time examining me. Statistically, you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting the last mafia by guesswork alone.
I'll have more to add on Monday, but right now I feel like Dp is a touch worse than Kage, and Manasi feels very town to me.
Yep, that's basically where I am. Feel bad that the game is locked in my head but I'll try to keep an open mind and reevaluate.
Bussing?
He's a flipped villager dude.
He was not flipped at the time of that post.
Sooh, what's your order of preference?
Assuming for a second that we get it wrong today, the remaining mafia has the best chance to kill you tonight, because then tomorrow it is LYLO with 3 people that are not cleared. That's not a position I want to be in tomorrow: I think I have a 0% town record at LYLO.
Day One, Final Tally
:skull: 3 El Barto (Montmorency, Kagemusha, GeneralHankerchief)
2 Montmorency (Dp101/Snerk, Manasi)
2 Dp101 (Logic, Csargo)
1 Manasi (El Barto)
Not Voting: Sooh
Do not post!
d2 Final Tally
3 Csargo (Dp101, GH, Kage)
1 Dp101 (Logic)
Not Voting: Csargo, Manasi, Sooh
Vote: Kage
I don't see the remaining mafia NOT bussing in an outed scenario, which leads me to believe that Manasi is less likely than DP or Kage. EOD votes on D1 lead me to believe that the wagon was not all Town, and that leaves Kage. The reasoning isn't airtight, but GH came to this conclusion before me. He also shaded Dp quite a bit, so I am not confident on this, but I think Kage is the more likely mafia here.
Vote: Kage
I don't see the remaining mafia NOT bussing in an outed scenario, which leads me to believe that Manasi is less likely than DP or Kage. EOD votes on D1 lead me to believe that the wagon was not all Town, and that leaves Kage. The reasoning isn't airtight, but GH came to this conclusion before me. He also shaded Dp quite a bit, so I am not confident on this, but I think Kage is the more likely mafia here.
Yeah the mafia had to bus. They're not in the two confirmed people off wagon and it's not in AFK me.
I don't think you'd end up on a random wagon when someone's outted as mafia either.
I think the POE of Kage/Dp is solid so you're fine in LYLO.
If you're mafia you've already won ecks dee.
THAT BEING SAID, mafia probably hops onto the wagon after the claim as opposed to before the claim.
Right?
Logic, I'm willing to entertain the notion that Kage could be mafia, but not the one that I'm his partner for obvious reasons. Could you present a feasible alternative?
Csargo, you're given a gun with one shot. Who do you kill?
Kage I think at this point.
My PoE is something like this atm:
Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
Kage
This does not look good for Manasi or me. This is well before Csargo was outed, but even if I was mostly clear, I don't think I'd put my partner at the bottom or second from bottom of a suspicion list.
Responding to Manasi's query. I'm not convinced that Kage did a whole lot of legwork in the day-phase, but maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. I saw one attempt to ferret out mafia that didn't work all that well, and Kage agrees that his plan didn't return any positive results.
During my ISO of Kage, I said the above, and Csargo followed with this:
I'd put [GH] higher than Dp101 purely because I can get a better read on [GH] going forward than I can Dp101.
I feel fairly good about Logic currently, because his most recent stuff is pretty inline with what I remember from other games. I had him way lower initially, but his current engagement/posts have been excellent imo.
Manasi feels good at this point.
I think I'm usually pretty good at reading you, but that's probably wrong. You going along with the Barto vote so easily sort of put me off a bit. Nothing you've done since has raised my read of you all that much.
Dp101 is sort of meh hard to gauge with so little coming out from him.
Kage's summary post was odd to me, but that seems to be par for the course for D1 lists. Thought the Barto push was weird, I clearly wasn't a fan.
Responding to Manasi's query. I'm not convinced that Kage did a whole lot of legwork in the day-phase, but maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. I saw one attempt to ferret out mafia that didn't work all that well, and Kage agrees that his plan didn't return any positive results.
I think Logic's quote sums up my thoughts on Kage pretty well.
When there are only 2 wolves, is the best play to shade your partner, when only two other people have a strong read on him? This is making me second guess my Kage vote, and look at Manasi a little bit more. Sooh, Dp, your thoughts on this?
This does not look good for Manasi or me. This is well before Csargo was outed, but even if I was mostly clear, I don't think I'd put my partner at the bottom or second from bottom of a suspicion list.
During my ISO of Kage, I said the above, and Csargo followed with this:
When there are only 2 wolves, is the best play to shade your partner, when only two other people have a strong read on him? This is making me second guess my Kage vote, and look at Manasi a little bit more. Sooh, Dp, your thoughts on this?
Don't go down this road.
I'm probably objectively the worst looking when it comes to interactions with Csargo, but you know as much as anyone on this game that this is probably the most engaged/involved I've been in a game on this site. I don't know if you think that would speak to my town equity or mafia equity, but I think it's something to be noted and used for a read as opposed to just my interactions with one of my friends while the thread was deceased.
Previous ISO here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?153301-Hearthstone-Mafia&p=2053774901&viewfull=1#post2053774901)
Thank you for the ISO Logic. Like i said earlier if you are scum. You are playing extremely well. Your process seems very good, but conclusion is wrong. You build a case against me based on connection with GH, which you seem to be doubting very much in your Iso. So you seem to be arriving into wrong conclusion with genuine thought process, unlike Manasi who seems to be trying to use momentum in order to push who she wants to be lynched. I want to hear from the only confirmed townie aka Sooh before pushing what i have in mind.He's not wrong about me possibly coming to the wrong conclusions; I do it all the time, and had Sooh and Monty on my scum shortlist. But here, if Kage is Village, he is looking only at Manasi.
Good job GH! So my hunch about Csarco was right while i was wrong about Barto. I still havent lost it.Vote:Csargo
If Csargo flips scum we definetely have sometihng to work with.:2thumbsup:
Reaction to GH's outing Csargo. This could be faked just as easily as be genuine. I'm calling this null.
Vote Csargo. GH has claimed to be some sort of tracker/ detective and painted Csargo scum. Its the absolutely best we have so far. If Csargo does not flip scum. We will lynch GH next.
Since the end of my previous ISO, this is the only time Kage mentions or talks to Dp. I think this is telling, and it looks scummy.
I am staunch believer of the KISS principle. If you have the most simple answer to a dilemma use it. Only if the solution is not working, find more complicated one. At this point lynching Csargo should be a no brainer. The mathematics are on the town side. No matter if GH was pulling a straight forward stupid stunt as a scum now and fake claiming a role. The town would still get a scum and afterwards the numbers would be at towns side.Not entirely wrong, but not completely true either.
Hypothetical: If GH had been scum pulling a 1-for-1 trade, then we would have lynched a "clear" town!Csargo, nabbed scum!GH today with no real discussion to progress the game, and still be at lylo tomorrow. Maybe this is a derp!Kage, but I find this wolfish.
Good thinking GH.When you come through, which i believe as i dont see you as bad scum player and this what you are doing is essentially suicide if Csargo comes out town. If that is indeed the case im looking at two people. Logic, whom Csargo seemed to act in concert day one and Manasi, who is either lazy or scum.
Manasi bears more investigation, but off the top of my head, I don't read her game as lazy. Still not even glancing at Dp.
GH. Look at the day 1 Logic and compare to the rest of the game. Day 1 he is bantering with Csargo, easy stuff for mafia and also voting DP with Csargo which does not lead to a lynch. After that Logic´s game is solid. Doing Iso´s and being very analythical. Between Manasi and Logic, at this point i would go with Manasi, but there is a dent at Logic, which should be pursued.
Not entirely consistent: as of this ISO, he says I am doing really well if I am scum, but he switches gears a little bit on me. Still tunneling Manasi. But, is there a reason you aren't so much as looking at Dp?
And this is exactly what you have been doing the entire game. Evading and not answering anything. Please do elaboarete to my question before. I would really appreciate that.:yes:More Shading/tunneling Manasi.
Then share those reads.
Manasi responds about GH pushing her and Csargo (her town read.) Not much to say about that without doing Manasi's complete ISO.
Ok. Thank you very much Manasi for that insight. Im now going to leave the keyboard and go play some pool with friends and have a go at being day time drunken, while not being at bar for more then 6 months. If i post something even more strange tonight compared to my usual. Its booze talking. Im a happy man. :bow:
So, Kage signs out for the night to attend to RL stuff. His next 3 are in quick succession.
Im hung over and not feeling too much for posting anything. But i say that both posts above this one of mine are **** posts. You cant discredit me both ways do it or dont. I found Csargo and i found you as well.
Sorry three posts above mine are **** posts and that is what they are.
Vote: Manasi
All the posts he is referring to belong to Manasi, and he ends with a vote at night. I am beginning to see what he was saying of Manasi, so her ISO is next on my list. DP, you get a reprieve for the moment; you've moved up a slot because I am now questioning my Manasi read.
If Kage is a villager, he is tunneling on Manasi, perhaps unfairly so. If Kage is Mafia, forcing a mislynch on Manasi today might be his best path to victory.
Sooh, what's your order of preference?
Assuming for a second that we get it wrong today, the remaining mafia has the best chance to kill you tonight, because then tomorrow it is LYLO with 3 people that are not cleared. That's not a position I want to be in tomorrow: I think I have a 0% town record at LYLO.
I'd really like for this not to come down to me. That being said I've been a lazy bum all day and should probably look into things a bit more. 340 posts and 4 players to look into, so way less than that. I think I can come up with that wim. I'll get started.
I don't really think this is scum!Manasi. She's nothing like how I remember her previous scum game. I also don't think Manasi would place her partner here in her reads list
vv
I think that we're kind of similar in terms of reads. I think that DP and Logic are probably my top towns.
Main difference is that I think all of the scum are in Sooh, yourself, Monty, and Kage.
Csargo is posting well, I agree, so I'd give him a town read for that.
I still haven't shook the tinfoil that wolves can just put it effort and be better than most of the town so I don't know how confident I'm gonna be going through the rest of the game at all, but that's where I am.
Why "clear" Kage for the lynch but push Barto who was obviously having more fun than like ~most of the thread?
I know you said you can probably figure his alignment out etc, but can't you also do that for Barto? I feel like his alignment isn't that hard to place.
I know she gave that piece of self-meta herself, but it just reads a bit strange to me. Why would she single him out like that?
I feel like she's been appealing to me quite a lot this game though (mainly because I haven't been posting and generally not helped anyone at all). I am not sure if scum Manasi does that after I nailed her to the wall in her last scum game here. I would think that scum!Manasi would be happy I wasn't in the thread tbh.
Then again I know you're a good player and probably very capable of fooling me, but I'm not willing to lynch you today, and I'm assuming that I'll die N3, so I'll leave that problem to somebody else.
I gotta say, I am "thanking" Csargo more than I thought I would have. I'm going to guess it is based upon our having a similar sense of humor.
I find this and subsequent posts by the two of them very unlikely for mafia partners to make in the thread.
Very vague buckets:
Townish
Logic - Myself, naturally I am going to say I am town.
Manasi - seems townier than usual, and I usually suspect Manasi early and often.
Sooh - Feels natural; I can detect no hidden agenda.
Nullish
Csargo - Right now, I'm wearing blinders on him.
Kagemusha - "Bating" for reaction sounds good, but it's also I might do in a followup game if I were scum.
Scumish
El Barto - Slightly confused by the 848% earlier, but I'm assuming it was a typo not something sinister. His coded flavor-text may be what is pinging my scum-dar, but I can't identify why he feels less than genuine this early.
Monty - Seeing his last game has made me super wary of him, and he is in my "usual suspects" bucket until proven otherwise.
GeneralHankerchief - Too little content to base anything on. But I could see a "chaos³" GH this early.
Snerk/Dp101 - Snerk/Dp101 have given little to go on, but I can't find a real reason to vote elsewhere yet.
Null-reading a partner isn't unheard of though.
Wait; Innocent Child? That doesn't seem to fit with the Hearthstone theme at all. I'm not mechanically clearing Sooh just yet.
This is adorable and kind of derp clearing.
Not really feeling a Logic lynch today either. We'll see after I've read the two last.
Snerk basically only voted jokes when he was around, so I'm going to discount that.
This is generally the impression I get from the thread overall btw. Honestly only people I feel confident townreading are Csargo and Manasi.
Could be a partner post I guess. He was responding to a Csargo post at the time though, so I'm unsure.
This post is odd and wolfy, imo. Once I recall voting format I might put one here.
Why was that Kage post odd and wolfy?
Welp, lolme. Ignore everything I just said in my last post. Vote: Csargo
If you lied about this, I'm coming for your head tomorrow.
With the level of reaction that was given to GH's suss post of Dp I'm not sure I buy him just trusting GH at face value here. I know I didn't.
The subsequent spew finding effort also seems to me at least to be a flailing attempt to find two more mislynches in a very small pool (myself and GH were already clear, so he sussed first Manasi and then Logic).
Moar attempted spew-reading attempts, since I never do this and need to get better at it, and the play is imo clearer if GH is lying so I see more value in trying to catch the scum after Csargo:
The logic read feels somewhat like providing support to a scumbuddy who has improved dramatically and trying to push that point into people's heads. If logic was town here, I feel like scum!csargo would be focussing on lacklustre prior actions rather than trying to paint a picture of improvement.
Vague Manasi read is *noted*, but not sure exactly what it means.
Tries to discredit kage via logic, in a way that strikes me as honestly weird regardless of alignment. Leaving aside the part where it's honestly fairly wrong, I'm not sure what incentive there is as either alignment to make this push based off of logic's. This would make town!logic somewhat more likely, but it's also possible that this is a wolf-team coordinating somewhat clumsily to push a mislynch (although why they wouldn't go on me is a mystery to me).
I just added one of the posts I think is an example of flailing.
Well, honestly not sure where to go from here. Logic is probably clear, I trust Manasi, sooh is IC so I guess Kage is all I have? Going to wait a bit for others to weigh in first, before I vote anyone.
And this is where that whole read is ???
If Dp is scum here he knows he has to find two mislynches to win. He has one listed, though I guess the next logical (lol) thing to do is to go for the "probably clear" person next.
Idk, Dp, enlighten me perhaps?
This is adorable and kind of derp clearing.
Not really feeling a Logic lynch today either. We'll see after I've read the two last.
Logic is never cleared unless derp-cleared.
Ok. Lets see.
Barto, votes DP101 for no reason, DP101 is not in the game at least yet. Then votes: Manasi
Logic , votes El Barto for "joke" reasons, Then votes Snerk for "genetic" reasons.
Monty , votes No Lynch.
Sooh, votes Snerk for having too much fun.
Snerk, votes Monty for not being all business.
Csargo, votes Sooh for Zelda reasons.
Tally:
Snerk 2 votes
Manasi 1 votes
El Barto 1 votes
Monty 1 votes
Sooh 1 votes
No Lynch 1 votes
Conclusion. Completely and utterly nothing as of yet. Vote: GH. Because i want to hear from you. It has been far too long. :yes:
This post was weird, and I said so at the time. Generally speaking I think that people who try to jumpstart a game into serious mode often are wolves, just because they don't want to be accused later on in the game for not taking things seriously. Then again, that's a generic read which has nothing to do with Kage, and while I haven't played with him a lot I think he tends to be pushed for generic tells and be mislynched because of them quite a lot, so I'm going to file it under NAI.
Sorry Barto. Back to the drawing board. Logic, What are you basing that theory?
Hi Dp101! What do you base your confidence about Csargo and Manasi?
I like the specific digging of those two posts. They weren't "What are your reads and why?" (though he did have one of those as well), but indicated that he wanted to dig a bit deeper.
I dunno. I think I like Kage here.
I think I am probably leaning towards a Dp lynch today if nothing changed.
If I'm wrong I still don't think it's Manasi, but Kage and Logic are sort of a toss-up for me after that.
Still got more than 24h though, so I'm going to hold off on my vote for a bit and see if anything changes.
Manasi has got a lot to parse through, so she gets a truncated version of an ISO. He is Day and Night 1.
Manasi ISO
DAY 1
First!!!!!! Wowowowowoww Manasi goatNull
Damn this is a lot slower than I anticipated. Inclined to vote Monty but I just landed an hour ago and have like 9 hours of class starting soon (tm).
I’m gonna die today.25 player posts and 18ish hours into the game, and this is Manasi's second post. I play on the Org becasue most games move slower than anything on MU, so I'm not sure what she is expecting at this point. I can't help but wonder why she is commenting on this at this point if she doesn't have time to do a cursory read.
[-] town points
I think Kage posting that random wall was like.
Bizarre.
It was a lot of recap that didn't come to anything which I don't blame given the lack of any content but it also seemed like a pretty weirdly misplaced cliffs post.Kage's wall doesn't look that weird to me, as it looks like something I would do. But consensus seems to be that it is an odd thing to do, albeit within Kage's town meta.
[+] town points
Sooh whatcha thinking?
I think I have more reads now than I usually do in any game on MU lmao.
GH's one post is also pretty underwhelming.
This is rough.Here she has more reads than MU, but still says this is rough in back to back posts. ~:confused:
[-] town points
This isn't a good post how dare you do this.
Responding to Monty with a joke. Null
In what world does that give you a read on him?
Vote: Montmorency
Back-to-back posts. Responding to GH changing his vote from Monty to Barto.
Barto lynched.
NIGHT 1
POSTCOUNT READS NotLikeThis
GH wyd bro El Barto wasn't mafia there feelsgrossman
Why did you think Barto was scum?
If I say I want to kill GH he's gonna go postal.
But I wanna kill GH.
Triple back-to-back. If it weren't for the fact that GH later claims tracker, I might call this telegraphing. I feel like Scum Manasi likes to gloat and drop clues.
[-] town points
Monty calling me lock town is :sleeping:
~:confused::undecided: This looks like the gloating Scum!Manasi I mentioned.
[-] town points
Who do you think looks bad on his wagon then?
Responding to Csargo. Csargo shaded everyone on the wagon, claiming Monty looked worse than GH and Kage.
Even suggesting you'd take my read on Barto as anything seriously is kinda funny, you'd typically just brush it off.
I think that your scum read on him was baseless, think he was being more relevant than most people and there were infinitely scummier people.
Responds to GH's "postal" picture. This doesn't look much like a town response to me. This looks like "I was right about Barto, and you weren't."
[-] town points
You're asking a lot of questions and not making a lot of statements.
Can you change that for me?
So far from what I can tell you see myself/GH town and like, a bunch of random null reads as your scum?
I feel like there's enough in this thread to get to a point where you're past those level 1 reads that you had earlier yesterday.
Give me something.
Responding to Kage, who is talking about her and Csargo to Dp. Manasi makes a fair point about Kage asking a bunch of questions without saying much otherwise.
[+] town points
That probably suggests you're going to live to the next day phase lmao
Csargo mentions he doesn't feel confident about living, and this is Manasi's response.
[-] town points
Does GH try and control things when there's already a solid mislynch set up and a bunch of villagers not posting? Don't think he'd out himself/his scum meta if he doesn't have to.
Why do you think he's more towny?
What other reads do you have?
Replying to Sooh, about Scum!GH taking direct control of things. Her comment's read like she knows GH better than nsooh does, or at leasts understands Scum!GH's process better. But her follow-up questions don't look like town!Manasi probing; they looks like wolf!Manasi probing for weaknesses to exploit.
[-]town points.
Probably nothing because your question was pretty dumb.
Replying to Monty, who was responding to Csargo. I thought it was funny at first, but seeing the root is Scum!Csargo, this looks less normal. I'm not willing to give this comment a lean just yet.
DP can you do me a favor and read Kage's posts for me and tell me what you think? There isn't really a lot there so it should be easy.
Need more reads itt and less random stuff.
Funny coming from me, isn't it?
Replying to Dp. Not sure what she is getting to here.
See, this is the worst part.
In a thread with such little activity and posting and reads, all mafia really needs to do is post anything worth a shit and they're probably close to cleared.
(In writing this post I mean to say that I'm super townreading Logic but I don't know if I should be.)If scum, this was a really good job of pocketing me. I should be more careful with these types of posts.
I was pretty hype for this game (still kinda am) and nobody else is. Every site is either full of thousands of posts or just 14 of mine.
Feelsbadman.
The end of 7 back-to-back posts. I get her frustration at the end, and if it were not Manasi, I would wonder if someone posting 7 times in quick succession was a sign of someone trying to steer the conversation.
Is this the legwork you were referring to?
When I look at this it just comes across as summary and rhetorical questions that nobody ever answered. How is that actual work? Especially if you haven't yielded anything from it?
Is the only reason you voted on Barto because he didn't directly address you? That's what it's seeming.
You and GH both decided your lynch based on a POE.
You had the following:
Town: Manasi, Monty, GH
Mafia: Csargo, Logic
Which left a POE of Barto and Sooh (who has addressed you // you have made no effort to respond to)
Although she has a town read on you for "being intense" or whatever, that in no case would have much of a tell on her own alignment.
I just don't understand why you made the decision that you did when it seemed like Barto was at least interacting well with other people and someone like Sooh fluffed and posted ever so sporadically (no offense Sooh, think you're > rand town but I would have voted you over Barto if given the choice).
* In reading all of this I also wasn't able to figure out what you were trying to achieve.
HOW DO I CLEAR THIS FUCKIN MULTIQUOTE
I think that we're kind of similar in terms of reads. I think that DP and Logic are probably my top towns.
Main difference is that I think all of the scum are in Sooh, yourself, Monty, and Kage.
Csargo is posting well, I agree, so I'd give him a town read for that.
I still haven't shook the tinfoil that wolves can just put it effort and be better than most of the town so I don't know how confident I'm gonna be going through the rest of the game at all, but that's where I am.
Why "clear" Kage for the lynch but push Barto who was obviously having more fun than like ~most of the thread?
I know you said you can probably figure his alignment out etc, but can't you also do that for Barto? I feel like his alignment isn't that hard to place.
4 more back-to-back posts
If I don't die N1 I might go crazy if this thread tempo keeps up.
@mafiaThis is something I swear I've seen Manasi do as Mafia. I don't recall this happening when she is town.
[-] town points
Hi nice to meet you I'm Manasi.
Joke response to Kage's query about aggressiveness. Null
Hm, I just realized that I didn't put Dp in the post I wrote for Kage.
Whatever.
Sorry Dp.
Why would you? You are responding to Kage, not DP. How is DP concerned with a question that Kage asked of you?
[-] town points
GH help him psychoanalyze me.
I love talking about myself but this is 2deep4me.
This doesn't seem like something a mafia would do. I read this as "tell them my secrets, GH."
[+] town points
Meh. He's at least trying a little bit and relating to the frustration that I'm feeling I think.
I don't know how you can brush someone off after just one post.
Does not compuuuuuuute.I misread this post initially. It's about GH "clearing" Monty based on the "no Lynch" vote Monty played. I like this; this seems like a townie reaction.
[+] town points
EON1: Monty Killed. Sooh cleared.
So, based on her D1 & N1, I'm pulling Manasi from my "likely townie" list. I'll finish her ISO later tonight. For those that want to pick up where I left off, post #222 where she laughs and bolds Kage's name is her first post of D2.
1 Kagemusha (Logic)
Not Voting: Dp101, Manasi, Sooh
Not Posting: Kagemusha
Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule
Manasi has got a lot to parse through, so she gets a truncated version of an ISO. He is Day and Night 1.
Manasi ISO
DAY 1
Null
25 player posts and 18ish hours into the game, and this is Manasi's second post. I play on the Org becasue most games move slower than anything on MU, so I'm not sure what she is expecting at this point. I can't help but wonder why she is commenting on this at this point if she doesn't have time to do a cursory read.
[-] town points
Kage's wall doesn't look that weird to me, as it looks like something I would do. But consensus seems to be that it is an odd thing to do, albeit within Kage's town meta.
[+] town points
Here she has more reads than MU, but still says this is rough in back to back posts. ~:confused:
[-] town points
Responding to Monty with a joke. Null
Back-to-back posts. Responding to GH changing his vote from Monty to Barto.
Barto lynched.
NIGHT 1
Triple back-to-back. If it weren't for the fact that GH later claims tracker, I might call this telegraphing. I feel like Scum Manasi likes to gloat and drop clues.
[-] town points
~:confused::undecided: This looks like the gloating Scum!Manasi I mentioned.
[-] town points
Responding to Csargo. Csargo shaded everyone on the wagon, claiming Monty looked worse than GH and Kage.
Responds to GH's "postal" picture. This doesn't look much like a town response to me. This looks like "I was right about Barto, and you weren't."
[-] town points
Responding to Kage, who is talking about her and Csargo to Dp. Manasi makes a fair point about Kage asking a bunch of questions without saying much otherwise.
[+] town points
Csargo mentions he doesn't feel confident about living, and this is Manasi's response.
[-] town points
Replying to Sooh, about Scum!GH taking direct control of things. Her comment's read like she knows GH better than nsooh does, or at leasts understands Scum!GH's process better. But her follow-up questions don't look like town!Manasi probing; they looks like wolf!Manasi probing for weaknesses to exploit.
[-]town points.
Replying to Monty, who was responding to Csargo. I thought it was funny at first, but seeing the root is Scum!Csargo, this looks less normal. I'm not willing to give this comment a lean just yet.
Replying to Dp. Not sure what she is getting to here.
If scum, this was a really good job of pocketing me. I should be more careful with these types of posts.
The end of 7 back-to-back posts. I get her frustration at the end, and if it were not Manasi, I would wonder if someone posting 7 times in quick succession was a sign of someone trying to steer the conversation.
4 more back-to-back posts
This is something I swear I've seen Manasi do as Mafia. I don't recall this happening when she is town.
[-] town points
Joke response to Kage's query about aggressiveness. Null
Why would you? You are responding to Kage, not DP. How is DP concerned with a question that Kage asked of you?
[-] town points
This doesn't seem like something a mafia would do. I read this as "tell them my secrets, GH."
[+] town points
I misread this post initially. It's about GH "clearing" Monty based on the "no Lynch" vote Monty played. I like this; this seems like a townie reaction.
[+] town points
EON1: Monty Killed. Sooh cleared.
So, based on her D1 & N1, I'm pulling Manasi from my "likely townie" list. I'll finish her ISO later tonight. For those that want to pick up where I left off, post #222 where she laughs and bolds Kage's name is her first post of D2.
For what it's worth I got my sites all messed up and that was my attempt at a vote until I saw the votecount and I cried.
Also you need to make a decision because it seems like today's the day where everyone is locking in their POE.
And you don't seem to be getting to one. Scumreading three people when you have two lynches is nagl but I hope you figure it out in the next 21 hours.
Also you need to make a decision because it seems like today's the day where everyone is locking in their POE.
And you don't seem to be getting to one. Scumreading three people when you have two lynches is nagl but I hope you figure it out in the next 21 hours.
You're not wrong there, but I am going through my process. Can you say the same? Because it doesn't look that way to me.
Snerk basically only voted jokes when he was around, so I'm going to discount that.
Could be a partner post I guess. He was responding to a Csargo post at the time though, so I'm unsure.
Why was that Kage post odd and wolfy?
With the level of reaction that was given to GH's suss post of Dp I'm not sure I buy him just trusting GH at face value here. I know I didn't.
The subsequent spew finding effort also seems to me at least to be a flailing attempt to find two more mislynches in a very small pool (myself and GH were already clear, so he sussed first Manasi and then Logic).
I just added one of the posts I think is an example of flailing.
And this is where that whole read is ???
If Dp is scum here he knows he has to find two mislynches to win. He has one listed, though I guess the next logical (lol) thing to do is to go for the "probably clear" person next.
Idk, Dp, enlighten me perhaps?
The reason I found that earlier kage post wolfy was because of how it seemed like a complete, maybe-deliberate misinterpretation of how manasi was acting/feeling. It was clearly just frustration with software not working the way she expected it to, but Kage turned it around into manasi being aggressive generally, when she had displayed no such tendencies up to that point. I really feel like it was a stretch, enough so that it's suspicious.
I really don't get why you call my attempts at finding spew "flailing for mislynches". Like, you say that it's scummy, but what about it makes you think that I can't have been trying to do that analysis as town? Just my later uncertainty, which is present in literally every game that I've played?
Manasi ISO, part 2
Day 2: Monty killed, Sooh revealed
Hahahahahahahaha.
Kage
Two of my scum reads flipped town.
Cya.
I scumread Kage before Logic even
ugh
Right after Monty and Sooh's alignments were revealed. I gotta say, this looks more like a towny perspective than a mafia one.
This seems like exactly what you're doing in continuing to wait for Sooh lmao.
Still pressuring Kage. Consistant, at least.
Please go look back at the game where the three of us were scum together and compare.
This is a weird read for you to have, especially paired with coming to the conclusion that we're scum together.
Responding to GH before his claim/reveal.
Yeah give me a second. I've been really busy and tried posting last night on mobile but the site loaded horribly for me so I just went to sleep.
Responding to Kage about being evasive. This looks like another evasive answer to avoid the question for a moment.
I've absolutely been developing my own reads moreso than most people in the thread at this point, and if that's something you can't see then I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't evaded anything besides the questions in posts I literally haven't read yet lmaoNot wrong about reads.
So I'm put in this shitty spot where both myself and my town read are being pushed by the supposed tracker. If Csargo is scum, fine, that's fair. I didn't super lock clear him anyway. Reading both of our posts and concluding that we are potentially partners, though, is laughable. GH should know better than it. Again, it's fine since we're killing him today but I need you all to re-evaluate on me tomorrow.
Csargo's posting yesterday and last night would have been good enough to warrant a clear read from a lot of people tbh. Wifom alert, but I'm pretty sure if my scum partner gave me a reason to lock them away as town in my reads I would grab it and run.
Rest coming.
I also don't think a low impact IC dies over a tracker that could get another wolf.
Just my 0.02 at a post that stuck out strangely.
So then by the start of Day 3, both Csargo and GH will be dead and we can actually evaluate the game without him spewing that Kage's town and I'm mafia.
Good stuff.
Re: Dp, I could easily be getting bamboozled. I still think he's townier than Kage whose only real stance has been [probably] attempting to pocket GH. If GH even tried to verbalize why he thought Kage was town besides "Oh I just feel it really hard," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen or try to understand. From my perspective, though, I'm getting really pretty exclusively by two guys who are just back and forth town reading each other and could definitely be mafia together (barring the claim which is probably self resolving).
Tinfoil is partners bussing through claim but I think if they just continued on they'd have won just as easily.
Scratch that tinfoil.
Everything is fine.
Logic is spewed town by every side of this game.
Nobody's wanted to push there.
/shrug
Logic, I'm willing to entertain the notion that Kage could be mafia, but not the one that I'm his partner for obvious reasons. Could you present a feasible alternative?
Csargo, you're given a gun with one shot. Who do you kill?Kage I think at this point.
My PoE is something like this atm:
Csargo
Sooh
Logic
Manasi
Dp101/GH
KageDoes Csargo put his partner Dp this low in the POE?
Noted for future reference.
Not everyone has pushed on Kage fwiw.
Csargo didn't really actually push at all. It's just been myself and Logic.
Half the game.
Math checks out.Perhaps I'm being unually thick, but I don't know what "half the game" Manasi is referencing here. Half the players? Half play time? Care to clarift, Manasi?
Double-Sooh posts, for reference:
Personally I feel like this Manasi is miles away from scum-Manasi in that previous game.
Csargo, what do you think?
Csargo "thanks" the latter post, which I first thought was something, but this was after his outing by GH. So looking for partner associations there is null or wifom at best, and aggravating for those solving at worst.
EOD 2: Csargo lynched with GH, Kage, and DP on wagon.
Manasi attempts to vote Kage but is not counted, Logic Votes DP, while Csargo, and Sooh are not voting.
NIGHT 2
Good shit.
Still waiting for GH to do something even close to what he did to read Logic for Kage.
Too many people to lynch with too many question marks.
Dp/Sooh pls do something this is driving me a little insane.
Like I'm glad he's come around to Logic being town but I think he (GH) is still going to tell y'all to push on me in the coming days which is the objectively incorrect play.
I don't know if Sooh is ever this much of a non-factor, but I wouldn't be surprised?
I am a little bleh about Dp's activity being so low.
The only thing in Kage's favor was the activity and how he was actually like urging me to post even though all of my reads were already ITT?
I don't fucking know town just needs to posttttttt.
I'll be at home doing date of birth things for the majority of the day tomorrow, but I should be looking through thread during down time.
Should be around.
It'll be fine.
Triple post by Manasi
Yeah I didn’t know that I posted shade on you I was also quite drunk lmao.
Think most people would be able to tell I’m incredibly far out of my mafia range right now. It could be as easy as Dp/Csargo or something but if Dp flips town I’m gonna fuckin’ go guns blazing at Kage.
Those posts weren’t shit don’t be mean :(
EON1: GH is killed.
DAY 3
Bussing?
He's a flipped villager dude.
This looks like a possible derp-clear, maybe a drunk/hungover post.
Yep, that's basically where I am. Feel bad that the game is locked in my head but I'll try to keep an open mind and reevaluate.
OK, maybe I was too harsh on Manasi earlier when I said it didn't look like she was following her process.
Yeah the mafia had to bus. They're not in the two confirmed people off wagon and it's not in AFK me.
I don't think you'd end up on a random wagon when someone's outted as mafia either.
I think the POE of Kage/Dp is solid so you're fine in LYLO.
If you're mafia you've already won ecks dee.Responding to me and my (still currently valid) vote on Kage.
But, bussing is a much more likely scenario than being off-wagon or not voting (in Manasi's case, invalid voting.) This seems to point more in favor of Kage/DP than Manasi, and D1 voting all 3 were on flipped villagers that were reasonably competing wagons (as was I, for sake of full disclosure.)
THAT BEING SAID, mafia probably hops onto the wagon after the claim as opposed to before the claim.
Right?
Manasi's attempted vote for Kage was almost immediately after the day opened, and it looks like she made no attempt to change after the claim. This post looks like it is drawing attention to Manasi's voting record, and I am not liking this.
Don't go down this road.
I'm probably objectively the worst looking when it comes to interactions with Csargo, but you know as much as anyone on this game that this is probably the most engaged/involved I've been in a game on this site. I don't know if you think that would speak to my town equity or mafia equity, but I think it's something to be noted and used for a read as opposed to just my interactions with one of my friends while the thread was deceased.
This is the post I think most needs to be addressed. She's responding to me where I point out the GH interaction with Csargo and who Csargo would kill if he had a one-shot gun. The part that I find problematic is that Manasi also quoted Csargo's post and came to similar conclusions earlier, but now is telling me to not go looking at this further? That reads weird.
For what it's worth I got my sites all messed up and that was my attempt at a vote until I saw the votecount and I cried.Could be legitimate, but I read this as more like manipulation of emotions; an attempt to gain our sympathy.
Also you need to make a decision because it seems like today's the day where everyone is locking in their POE.
And you don't seem to be getting to one. Scumreading three people when you have two lynches is nagl but I hope you figure it out in the next 21 hours.
Absolutely right. I'm not in the best position to be an authority, but each ISO has little things sticking out, and yours seems to have the most thus far. I may not end on you today, as I still have to go through Dp before day-end. But right now, I am leaning you.
Kage: Stop tunnelling Manasi for a moment. Who is the remaining Mafia?
Is GH ever this grossly wrong on Kage? Is it even worth looking st game history? I wanna park my vote there until he comes back and posts but I feel kinda bad doing so.
Wow, this is rather sad.
Tempted to vote Kage just because he isn't around. 0 posting this late in the game is not good.
I wanna give Kagemusha the benefit of the doubt just because of GH's read but when his last like 5 posts are just about killing me I don't know what I'm supposed to think.
Kagemusha anyyyyything you wanna say? I don't know who's getting lynched btwn you or Dp but it's definitely one of you from what it SEEMS LIKE.
Catching up, this post worries me, a lot.
I find this level of aggression from you extremely... unsettling. You are expecting me to be completely pure in tone, and also somehow think that I can get that even while not being fully in thread? Like, imo, the main thing that good tone stems from is being extremely in-sync with how the thread is feeling, and that's near-impossible to have while not being around that much. I agree that my participation here has been spotty at best, and I did not anticipate being quite this rusty when I returned to the game. Honestly the "let's throw DP under the bus 100% with complete certainty and expect him to do things that he can't/doesn't (such as have good tone while not being around)" feels extremely reminiscent of my last org game with you as scum.
This is post GH claim, pre-reveal. I read this as more likely town, but it could be a reaction to having his buddy outed.
Welp, lolme. Ignore everything I just said in my last post. Vote: Csargo
If you lied about this, I'm coming for your head tomorrow.And then he addresses the claim in the next post. Derp clear, or attempt to fake a derp-clear?
I read this as a little less likely to be genuine.
I feel like this is... probably something that's said more towards a wolf than a villager? Like, it feels like Csargo was internally going "ok, time to talk about a consensus town, this shouldn't be too hard", and then thought he could get away with saying a fair amount of vague good-sounding things that are similar to what others have said, relying on the fact that people are mostly already agreeing as a way to get out of having to fake too much work. If Manasi was scum with csargo here, I'd expect either a. continuing the "I can't really read manasi" thing throughout the post rather than trying to construct a townread that might link them together, or b. having more specific reasons to give the townread rather than just going with the flow. To expand on the latter option, if I thought I was fairly secure and had an opportunity to talk about a scumbuddy who was doing well, I'd emphasise what has been getting them townread as hard as I can, in order to try and support them more and hopefully promote us as a towncore. Instead, there's this weird non-specific read.
DP Points out a post by Csargo. Csargo calls Manasi town by gut after being pressed a bit by GH about Manasi and Kage. DP thinks this implicates Manasi moreso than anyone else. I am not sure where this places DP just yet, but this looks noteworthy to me.
Yeah, sorry, trying to lay stuff out now.
Moar attempted spew-reading attempts, since I never do this and need to get better at it, and the play is imo clearer if GH is lying so I see more value in trying to catch the scum after Csargo:
The logic read feels somewhat like providing support to a scumbuddy who has improved dramatically and trying to push that point into people's heads. If logic was town here, I feel like scum!csargo would be focussing on lacklustre prior actions rather than trying to paint a picture of improvement.
Vague Manasi read is *noted*, but not sure exactly what it means.
Tries to discredit kage via logic, in a way that strikes me as honestly weird regardless of alignment. Leaving aside the part where it's honestly fairly wrong, I'm not sure what incentive there is as either alignment to make this push based off of logic's. This would make town!logic somewhat more likely, but it's also possible that this is a wolf-team coordinating somewhat clumsily to push a mislynch (although why they wouldn't go on me is a mystery to me).
This looks pretty good, and adds credibility to scum!Manasi theory, but mostly by adding another assenting voice. The post by Csargo he is quoteing is of more value, I think.
Someone talk to me pls I know it's not the best hour but idk what I'm doing.This makes Dp sound desperate. I had placed his skill higher than apparently he does, so if he's faking, this is pretty good, performance-wise. I'm thinking he is better than this, but everyone has their own doubts. I've gone back and forth on my reads throughout, so I can't say I blame him. This post of Dp is immediately followed by Kage's "Vote Csargo" which I could be a point against Dp.
Yeah, that’s the other thing. Even besides the potential post-flip associations, this has been the towniest Manasi I’ve seen in forever, and honestly the most interest I’ve ever seen her have in solving.At the time I saw this post, I liked it a lot. I'm not the only person that saw this as Manasi's towniest game ever (Sooh and now Dp have agreed as much.) but going back through Manasi's posts had me doubting that. Here, DP is quoting Sooh, and could be parroting what at the time, I believe had already been said by Sooh, GH, and myself.
I’m honestly shocked that you think I know what I’m doing. Maybe I haven’t brought it up here much, but my personal opinion of my towngame is that it’s complete garbage. Like, I have never had any amount of confidence in my town game, and if you think this seems not like me (and, especially, not like me enough to vote me over a track result then I just don’t understand you.
This is where Dp calls into question his own skill. I don't think this is a town response. I read this like:
scum!Dp: "Oh, I was wrong? Well, I'm not very good."
Town!Dp: "I win by luck as town, mostly."
And granted, while I am putting words into his mouth, I don't like either answer.
But a second reading occurs to me as a type this:
Dp readily admits that his TOWN game is garbage. His omission of his scum game makes me take some town points from him.
I didn’t read it as condescending, I just think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how I view the game and myself.
Self-shading again. I think he is trying to tell us to not read too much into his reads. I do agree, I don't understand how he views the game, because I've not committed to memory whataver anecdote would clue me in on how he does perceive the game.
Doesn’t matter, we got it right anyway! Thx Gh
Easy to fake, but could be genuine.
The Kage read, mostly. Felt like mafia would just make the read and move on, not talk about how odd it was.
Agree fully, I have no idea what kage is doing, this feels completely different to past games, making me decently confident in him not being town.
Not quoting because mobile, but I find it weird how in GH’s big wall on everyone my posts with actual analysis in them are ignored, and instead the only post that gets picked up is barely 2 sentences. Probably nothing, but, there’s a tiny part of me that feels like the possibility of GH fpsing and bussing is not out of the question.
EON2: GH is killed
Well, honestly not sure where to go from here. Logic is probably clear, I trust Manasi, sooh is IC so I guess Kage is all I have? Going to wait a bit for others to weigh in first, before I vote anyone.
First post of the day. Not voting, but leaning Kage before anyone else; same as where Manasi and I seem to be at the moment.
He was not flipped at the time of that post.
Responding to Manasi's derp-comment.
The reason I found that earlier kage post wolfy was because of how it seemed like a complete, maybe-deliberate misinterpretation of how manasi was acting/feeling. It was clearly just frustration with software not working the way she expected it to, but Kage turned it around into manasi being aggressive generally, when she had displayed no such tendencies up to that point. I really feel like it was a stretch, enough so that it's suspicious.
I really don't get why you call my attempts at finding spew "flailing for mislynches". Like, you say that it's scummy, but what about it makes you think that I can't have been trying to do that analysis as town? Just my later uncertainty, which is present in literally every game that I've played?
Responding to Sooh, last post as of #362.
This could be acting, and that is how I am reading this right now. So unless someone makes a GH-Chess level play, my vote remains on Kagemusha.
Also, Kage still has yet to post this phase. Anyone want to discuss that?
Also, Kage still has yet to post this phase. Anyone want to discuss that?
That's why I kind of want to vote him. I don't like him checking out like that. I don't particularly want dead weight in F3 if we mislynch today.
I also think that if I was scum in this game I would probably be tryharding more than 0 posting.
Wow, this is rather sad.
Tempted to vote Kage just because he isn't around. 0 posting this late in the game is not good.
DP's one post was that it's probably Kage.
Can't tell what Logic is thinking.
Kage's 0 posting.
It's a toss up right now which is great.
Manasi, are you around? How do you think the last scum would be working this round?
That's why I kind of want to vote him. I don't like him checking out like that. I don't particularly want dead weight in F3 if we mislynch today.
I also think that if I was scum in this game I would probably be tryharding more than 0 posting.
Well the only one putting in more than 3% effort is Logic right now so no matter what a mafia is basically 0-1 posting.
Manasi, are you around? How do you think the last scum would be working this round?
Dunno, the two people in my POE aren't posting at all so maybe they've given up because the game is locked.
DP's one post was that it's probably Kage.
Can't tell what Logic is thinking.
Kage's 0 posting.
It's a toss up right now which is great.
I'm presently thinking that Kage > Dp > Manasi.
The problem with my process is to doubt EVERYTHING. I've tried to adopt a "If I am wrong, how am I wrong?" worldview in my general life, but when applied to this game, it can cause game-paralysis over a failure to trust in anything, including myself. Maybe that is what Dp is thinking as well.
One thing I am fairly sure of: Zack is chuckling to himself.
I'm just scared Logic is that one scum who feels victory is near and braves it out.
I'm just scared Logic is that one scum who feels victory is near and braves it out.
I'm pretty sure I've posted it before but if he's scum he's already won.
People didn't actually play the game so if he's scum playing like this then he deserves the win anyway.
We don't have the resources to tinfoil.
1 Kagemusha (Logic)
Not Voting: Dp101, Manasi, Sooh
Not Posting: Kagemusha
Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule
I think the tally is still just logic voting kage?
I'm pretty sure I've posted it before but if he's scum he's already won.
People didn't actually play the game so if he's scum playing like this then he deserves the win anyway.
We don't have the resources to tinfoil.
I guess not. You want Kage? or Dp?
I think the tally is still just logic voting kage?
Unless I missed something, I concur.
Great. 15 mins to EOD and I don't know where I want to vote.
I kind of think the last two lynches need to be Logic and Dp, but lolme.
Great. 15 mins to EOD and I don't know where I want to vote.
I kind of think the last two lynches need to be Logic and Dp, but lolme.
Logic?
Do you mean Kage or are you actually tinfoiling this hard?
One thing I am fairly sure of: Zack is chuckling to himself.
I prefer to think he's chortling.
Logic?
Do you mean Kage or are you actually tinfoiling this hard?
I am tinfoiling yes.
If it's not Kage, who's next IYO?
I am tinfoiling yes.
If it's not Kage, who's next IYO?
Dp. I've said it approximately 82 times.
Ok. I'll give you both your Kage lynch. If that doesn't end the game, GL in F3.
Hope the game just ends here glgl.
Ok. I'll give you both your Kage lynch. If that doesn't end the game, GL in F3.
Good fight for a logic lynch I commend the effort put in from all parties.
Good fight for a logic lynch I commend the effort put in from all parties.
What do you mean??
What do you mean??
Nothing tbh.
Kage was lynched, he was the last wolf.
gg
Thanks for hosting, Zack :smitten:
That was anticlimactic lol.
GG guys.
El Barto
04-03-2018, 21:05
I WIN! I WIN I WIN I WIN!
Erm, well, good game, good team effort, etc.
Yeah thanks for hosting Zack was fun.
I'm not going to lie, I'm super :daisy: salty over this game.
El Barto
04-03-2018, 21:08
I'm not going to lie, I'm super :daisy: salty over this game.
Is this because Sooh didn't do an ISO of your posts again?
Yeah thanks for hosting Zack was fun.
I'm not going to lie, I'm super :daisy: salty over this game.
What are the odds of being tracked correctly the way you were? That was pretty awesome by GH and pretty unfortunate for you <3
What are the odds of being tracked correctly the way you were? That was pretty awesome by GH and pretty unfortunate for you <3
I doubt it's entirely about the track, but yeah.
If GH doesn't track Csargo I'm probably never voting on him at all.
I didn't vote o him when GH claimed anyway but that's besides the point.
El Barto
04-03-2018, 21:14
I doubt it's entirely about the track, but yeah.
If GH doesn't track Csargo I'm probably never voting on him at all.
I didn't vote o him when GH claimed anyway but that's besides the point.
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
Remember when they lynched you Day 1?
I do.
Is this because Sooh didn't do an ISO of your posts again?
This is a hundred percent the reason.
El Barto
04-03-2018, 21:16
Remember when they lynched you Day 1?
I do.
What do you mean ‘they’? You were playing too.
btw Zack should give you the link to our awesome Monty-less discussion QT.
What do you mean ‘they’? You were playing too.
btw Zack should give you the link to our awesome Monty-less discussion QT.
Yeah I didn't lynch you. They did. ;)
Good fight for a logic lynch I commend the effort put in from all parties.
I almost switched to you based on missing punctuation.
Kage was lynched, he was the last wolf.
gg
I am SO GLAD I did not have to go through LYLO.
Yeah thanks for hosting Zack was fun.
I'm not going to lie, I'm super :daisy: salty over this game.
I'm sorry you got unlucky. I do hope we can all be friends. FWIW, I thought you were doing a masterful job as scum.
I'm just scared Logic is that one scum who feels victory is near and braves it out.
If it makes you feel any better, I could share with you the scum games I am most proud of.
To anyone thinks I did well, keep in mind that I hemmed and hawed on literally everyone but Sooh. I may have put in more effort than normal (for an Org Game), but the low postcount allowed for it.
Also, many thanks to Zack for a good game. Were there any other powerroles? Or just the one tracker?
Also, many thanks to Zack for a good game. Were there any other powerroles? Or just the one tracker?
odd-night tracker
sooh revealed as innocent child start of day 2
wolves knew the setup (but not who was what role, obviously)
with night chat I figured that would be reasonably balanced, though the tracker is admittedly swingy
Was the deadchat/QT worth looking at or nah
This is a hundred percent the reason.
I can ISO you now and put like 10 of your posts in a row and tell you how towny you were if you want.
Was the deadchat/QT worth looking at or nah
Yeah, me and Barto were having a great time in there.
I legit forgot about EOD until 15 minutes after and was too busy kicking myself for forgetting (and assuming I was dead) to check it, and then I discover that we won, somehow. Looks like I’m still extremely rusty.
What are the odds of being tracked correctly the way you were? That was pretty awesome by GH and pretty unfortunate for you <3
I'm not sure anyone else would have, GH is a madlad.
I doubt it's entirely about the track, but yeah.
If GH doesn't track Csargo I'm probably never voting on him at all.
I didn't vote o him when GH claimed anyway but that's besides the point.
No, that's definitely not all, but such is life.
:sweetheart:
GeneralHankerchief
04-04-2018, 01:55
Gg all, bad luck to the mafia. Had fun playing back in the old stomping grounds, hopefully Kage gets here soon. :bow:
For everyone's amusement, I was actually really close to not claiming on D2 (didn't realize the mafia knew the setup and had marked me for death on N2). Here's a chatlog I had with Zack halfway through D2:
[11:31 PM] GeneralHankerchief: Random nighttime musings when i should be sleeping
[11:31 PM] GeneralHankerchief: Toying with the idea of not revealing until d3 to get more spew
[11:32 PM] GeneralHankerchief: With sooh being ic it should be fairly straightforward living until then
[11:32 PM] GeneralHankerchief: But
[11:32 PM] GeneralHankerchief: This is exactly the kind of perfect plan that gets :daisy:ed up by a wtf kill
[11:33 PM] GeneralHankerchief: So I'll think about it
[11:33 PM] GeneralHankerchief: Worst case scenario we both have more ammo to rage post to each other about
[11:33 PM] GeneralHankerchief: And in the end isn't that the most important thing
[11:35 PM] GeneralHankerchief: Anyway that's all obviously don't respond to this, just know that the tragedy of yhe wolves leaving the ic alive and it working out is going to work and this nighttime thought is the genesis of it all
Afterwards I chickened out and decided to claim after all.
I doubt it's entirely about the track, but yeah.
If GH doesn't track Csargo I'm probably never voting on him at all.
I didn't vote o him when GH claimed anyway but that's besides the point.
Same. If I made it to LYLO, I am looking at everyone but sooh before csargo.
Logic was initially our N1 kill which would have been hilarious, sadly I changed it to Monty before Logic's post.
Montmorency
04-04-2018, 02:49
Wow, gj Logic and GH. I guess it really was a Logic-GH pairing - just on the Town team! :bounce:
Gg all, bad luck to the mafia. Had fun playing back in the old stomping grounds, hopefully Kage gets here soon. :bow:
For everyone's amusement, I was actually really close to not claiming on D2 (didn't realize the mafia knew the setup and had marked me for death on N2). Here's a chatlog I had with Zack halfway through D2:
Afterwards I chickened out and decided to claim after all.
Holding back is what gave you the win in Pokemon, and you pointed that out then too.
Both times Csargo was scum, I see.
This must have been my first N1 death since 2012 or 2013. So unusual, in fact, that I should have asked myself who would want me dead so soon? Perhaps my most insinuous accuser: Csargo! And you were actually back up to null just before I died. Makes sense to kill me if I annoy one scum, have an unclear position in the Town's POE, and have a reputation (in scum's eyes) for unpredictability... So Csargo, how does it feel to go down twice (in games involving Zack) after being tracked to the NK?
But, back to false positives with GH I see, who seems to have filled the Pizza-shoes this game.
Never knew Manasi was capable of this. Now I can see how she and Zack are friends.
Thanks to Zack for hosting with a tracker role
Any QT?
Logic was initially our N1 kill which would have been hilarious, sadly I changed it to Monty before Logic's post.
I did post my last minute update at the end of night intentionally. I even asked Zack how accurate the countdown was, because I didn't want to post at 12:58 PDT and end up getting sniped.
Montmorency
04-04-2018, 03:23
You know, I think Zack basically enforces a 30 minute (or 1 hour) deadline for night orders, so there's not much use to waiting until the last minute. Unless the dramatic effect is a consideration (which it is).
I did post my last minute update at the end of night intentionally. I even asked Zack how accurate the countdown was, because I didn't want to post at 12:58 PDT and end up getting sniped.
I changed the order a few hours before EoN. I chose you because I thought you would post yourself clear by the next day phase, which is essentially what happened.
I changed the order a few hours before EoN. I chose you because I thought you would post yourself clear by the next day phase, which is essentially what happened.
And if I had been the kill, it would have been a bit of a relief.
But it also would have been hilarious, because then there would have been a hundred questions as to why I suspected you, and I would have been unable to answer. I suspect only pizza or GH would have looked thoroughly enough through past games to have possibly found what I would have been referring to. (Which I couldn't even find it when I went looking.)
Wow, gj Logic and GH. I guess it really was a Logic-GH pairing - just on the Town team! :bounce:
Holding back is what gave you the win in Pokemon, and you pointed that out then too.
Both times Csargo was scum, I see.
This must have been my first N1 death since 2012 or 2013. So unusual, in fact, that I should have asked myself who would want me dead so soon? Perhaps my most insinuous accuser: Csargo! And you were actually back up to null just before I died. Makes sense to kill me if I annoy one scum, have an unclear position in the Town's POE, and have a reputation (in scum's eyes) for unpredictability... So Csargo, how does it feel to go down twice (in games involving Zack) after being tracked to the NK?
But, back to false positives with GH I see, who seems to have filled the Pizza-shoes this game.
Never knew Manasi was capable of this. Now I can see how she and Zack are friends.
Thanks to Zack for hosting with a tracker role
Any QT?
I chose you because I thought your posting style this game leaned towards having one of the pt roles, you seemed somewhat reserved to me, so I killed you basically. I didn't kill you because you annoyed me or I thought you'd be unpredictable going forward.
Feelsbadman, getting lynched because of being tracked is basically soul crushing tbh. Doesn't matter how well you do, there's not much you can do after that reveal. I briefly considered going after GH when he revealed, but I didn't think that would be worth much in the long run, because I'd just survive one more round. I didn't think it was worth it, plus I was hoping that Kage would leave GH alive and kill Sooh/Logic, I told him as much in the QT. I thought that would be the best strategy.
And if I had been the kill, it would have been a bit of a relief.
But it also would have been hilarious, because then there would have been a hundred questions as to why I suspected you, and I would have been unable to answer. I suspect only pizza or GH would have looked thoroughly enough through past games to have possibly found what I would have been referring to. (Which I couldn't even find it when I went looking.)
Yeah, I have no idea what you're referring to. I don't recall saying anything of the sort, but I don't remember a lot of things I say. :grin:
El Barto
04-04-2018, 22:07
Somebody asked for a QT (https://quicktopic.com/52/H/JnvajhNxbSZB)?
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