View Full Version : Varangian Guardsmen
DemonArchangel
02-07-2003, 20:50
You may not disagree with me on this point, VG's can take on almost anything including heavy cavalry and a single unit of 60 can rout 400 saracen infantrymen, closest things to shoguns Kensais.
They are no doubt the best heavy infantry in the game, the best at delivering the coup de grace in a battle.
But there are other types that are better at specifics, such as JHI and SAP in the anti-cavalry department and the Gallowglasses as flankers/chargers.
One day while bored I matched up the infantry heavywieghts. VG did indeed beat everything only I could not match them against SAP because of the different time periods. However, based on how each performed agaisnt the JHI, I think the SAPs would defeat VG.
VG v. JHI - the VGs won but with only a few men left, about 7-10 I think.
SAP v. JHI - blowout, 30-50 SAP still alive after the victory.
I did each battle a few times and alternated control ofeach unit with AI. Like I said, I was bored http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
DemonArchangel
02-08-2003, 01:26
ok, actually, i'm thinking of modding vg to excellent attack and irresistble charge, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif ROFLMAO
And then making them impossible to beat hahahaha, you would need to change their description to something like: "The terrible norse in the servise of the Byzantine Empire have hone their skills in battle to the point of becoming impossible to beat. If you face them... run"
Nah... Almohad Urban Militia all the way baby.
Gaius Julius
02-08-2003, 05:28
I love them, had great success with them so far.
They more than hold their own in battle.
Yeh they're great sp unit,sad to see them go in late age.
I've never even tried Varangian Guard before. Heck, I havn't even played the Byzantines yet Too busy playing the Almohads.
It seems to me that missles rip them up pretty good....which is good cause when they get close they kill anything and everything.
They take 4 turns to build with max unit size http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
But jeez they shure do cut their way through enemies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
DemonArchangel
02-08-2003, 15:11
ok, actually, how DO you a unit's description?
kataphraktoi
02-08-2003, 15:19
In the main MTW directory on your computer where you installed the game there is a folder called "LOC" in it is the folder "ENG", within is the file called "Descriptions"
write what you want in there provided you follow the pattern for putting a description in.
DemonArchangel
02-08-2003, 15:41
thank you.
ICantSpellDawg
02-08-2003, 20:10
yea - i really dig them - especially the fact that they are viking units
yep Vang gaurd are the best just as pavise arbs are at missiles and jhi are at spears and lancers at cav http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Leet Eriksson
02-09-2003, 18:14
i could swear by the end of the high age,i subdued north africa ,eastern europe,iberian peninsula and most of germany except poland(becuase i'm sympathetic to them)with Varangians.they are sooo powerful,only the fool wood go face-to-face against them.only units that can defeat them hand to hand are lancers and gothic knights.
Orda Khan
02-09-2003, 22:08
Well the toughest unit I have come across is the Swiss Armoured Pikeman, much tougher than Varangian Guards who died fast to the arrows of my Horde
....Orda
Michael the Great
02-09-2003, 23:21
Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Feb. 09 2003,15:08)]Well the toughest unit I have come across is the Swiss Armoured Pikeman, much tougher than Varangian Guards who died fast to the arrows of my Horde
....Orda
SAP's are in fact the strongest inf unit...only if u can flank them.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Leet Eriksson
02-10-2003, 00:33
no saps ain't strong,i just used a 0 honour unit of halberdiers against them,they got cut to peices.
halbreds are grand, but varagians are better... too bad they are expensive and only 60 men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Rowan11088
02-10-2003, 01:32
Well, every unit has some weakness...Halberdiers have very good defense and armor, so if you charged their flank even if they didn't die very fast your Halberdiers would lose very few men, and would outlast them...dunno if that's the case.
Quote[/b] ]too bad they are expensive and only 60 men
Then you need to try playing at max unit size http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
120 varangians all in a row...
Of course, you have to deal with 80 strong heavy cav, 200 strong spears etc and 120 strong shock/melee troops...
LordKhaine
02-10-2003, 03:47
I have to say I'm disappointed with Swiss Halberdiers. They seem utterally useless. Small unit size... and they die like flys.
ShadesWolf
02-10-2003, 07:31
VG are a awesome unit. I usually have one as my general.
Used with Byzant Infantry and a few cv units and they wipe the floor with most enemies.
When a typical Byzan army formation is deployed - ie you place them as a reserve unit, they had that extra punch on flanking and a heavy weight to punch most defenses open.
An all round most excellent unit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Silencer
02-10-2003, 11:43
"no saps ain't strong,i just used a 0 honour unit of halberdiers against them,they got cut to peices?"
So SAP are weaker then halberdiers? Did u let them use their rank bonus?
Find it hard to believe that SAP win from JHI but loose from Halberdiers?
And who wins this:
Swiss Halberdiers versus normal Halberdiers?
Quote[/b] ]VG are a awesome unit. I usually have one as my general. Really? I use whatever has the biggest number of stars and thats nearly always an heir or ex heir...
I believe he's refering to MP where your gen doesn't have stars just a big flag so that the enemy artillery know what to aim for
Citera[/b] (kaaskop @ Feb. 10 2003,15:18)]I believe he's refering to MP where your gen doesn't have stars just a big flag so that the enemy artillery know what to aim for
lol, thats also a way to put it =)
ShadesWolf
02-10-2003, 22:48
I did mean MP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
In SP as you stated I also have highest unit as general.
"I have to say I'm disappointed with Swiss Halberdiers. They seem utterally useless. Small unit size... and they die like flys."
I have to agree. I never build them now. Waste of money & time. Regular halberdiers are much better. Their only disadvantage is lower morale, but build them in a province with a chruch, monestary, reliquary and cathedral and watch them stand up to just about anything. Most underrated unit in MTW IMO.
Just LOVE my VG. Last night, they carved up the horde (playing on expert). 17 VG just slaughtered 40 Mongol Heavy Cavalry. 2 seconds later the remaining Mongols are running. Most of the battle I had to keep a close eye on the VG to stop them from chasing routing enemies all over the map. Every time they'd rout another unit I'd have to hit the stop button to keep them from getting out of position by continuing the attack (Of course, those lv 9 Byzantine generals kinda help - that could have had something to do with it) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
The most underrated unit has to be Militia Sergeants.
Most people know Halberdiers are pretty good for defence especially at killing cavalry.
But not so many are aware of the speed, cheapness and cavalry killing armour piercing abilities of the Militia Sergeant.
Just the other day I had a 120 strong unit of enemy MS kill about 190 of my 200 strong Byz Inf unit and still come out with 17 left who proceeded to chase the rest of my army off the field with the help of some feudal foot knights. (had lost my gen by then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif )
I think it took me about 2 more battles and a great many men to get rid of those troublemakers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
DemonArchangel
02-11-2003, 21:55
no way, militia sergeants suck, byz infantry rape them
Rowan11088
02-11-2003, 22:51
Militia Sergeants are great They can be defeated of course by plenty of units, but remember they're available within 20 years of the beginning of early period. As HRE, or maybe Poland/France, whatever, they save your life lots of times. They can take out early royal knights with relative ease if they have 1 or 2 valor, or if they're going slightly downhill with their charge. They also last quite a while, they have good defense for early units.
Leet Eriksson
02-11-2003, 23:27
Quote[/b] (Silencer @ Feb. 10 2003,04:43)]"no saps ain't strong,i just used a 0 honour unit of halberdiers against them,they got cut to peices?"
So SAP are weaker then halberdiers? Did u let them use their rank bonus?
Find it hard to believe that SAP win from JHI but loose from Halberdiers?
And who wins this:
Swiss Halberdiers versus normal Halberdiers?
i was sure those halberdiers charged the saps face to face and killed them,i saw them with my own eyes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif ,and btw they only lost 29 men.
Beelzebub
02-12-2003, 00:03
Yeah I agree, militia sarges are a great unit and really dominate early on in western europe. feudal men at arms are about equal to them one on one, but they can defend better, especially against cavalry. They can also beat spearmen easily.
DemonArchangel
02-12-2003, 02:22
lol
militia sergeants die to hobilars, not to mention katas, royals, boyars, sipahis of porte, ghulams etc....
oh well, actually, i prefer AUMs, MAA or Byzantine Infantry though.
Speaking of Byzantine infantry, they kill MAA, militia (AUM included), can 1-1 with foot knights, kill many other things and for a reasonable price too,
i wanna see them on horses... that would rock... cause they did ride horsese
Yes you can beat Militia Sergeants with the heavier stuff sure.
I didn't say they were astoundingly powerful.
I just said they are underrated by most people.
Remember that Militia Sergeants are plonked in with peasants on the build chart.
They're a bit low on morale and get munched by even basic archers.
But as long as you don't expect them to do particularly well 1v1 against flashier more expensive melee troops, then they will normally do very well for themselves.
Never really had much experience with the much vaunted AUMs.
Michael the Great
02-16-2003, 18:08
Most of u would think that in a frontal battle,Varagian Guards will beat Janissary Heavy Infantry.
Weeeell....no.
I did a custom battle test yesterday,on a perfectly flat map,1 unit Varagian Guards V1 vs 1 unit JHI V1.
The Varagians started off very good and many JHI were dieing every second.
But the JHI started to take control of the battle,and at the end,there were 6 Varagians left vs 15 JHI.
(Oh and may I mention that the JHI won?http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
Yes but did you do this ten times? With the AI playing either side five times each? No? Then your result is not worth much.
At Normal the player has a slight advantage, at Hard the AI has a slight advantage. There are no equal setting.
Kraxis - are you sure normal is not equal? Have the developers said this? It seems bizarre... I hate playing with a stacked deck.
PS: Can't we settle some match ups from the stats? eg VG attack JHI at +2 (attack 4 vs defence 3, plus 1 for AP); JHI attack VG at +1.5 (attack 5 vs defence 5, plus 1.5 for AP).
No we actually can't settle it like that, oddly enough. There aer Armour to think of (rate of fatigue) and charges.
But remember that only the Armour can have have decimals... So the JHI adds 1 to attack.
A +1 factor in favour of the VG doesn't seem like very much, but you can be certain it has a massive effect. Also when concerning high attack-low defense units it is much more equal with the +1 (as they most likely die from the attack anyway).
Regarding VG and JHI, charge bonuses are equal. I doubt differential effect of armour on fatigue is that big deal outside of the desert. Otherwise, the stats show the VG are better in raw effectiveness (dunno about cost effectiveness). But it's awful close so empirical testing will need to be thorough as Kraxis indicated. On some other match-ups, the stats are less clear but these two units are among the more comparable.
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