Comparisons between STW and MTW

[Goatus Maximus]

I've thoroughly enjoyed MTW and am considering buying STW. I am curious to hear from players of both MTW and STW as to the pros/cons of STW compared to MTW.

My biggest concern is playability...will I enjoy playing STW after having played the newer, ostensibly more playable MTW?

I am mainly interested in the SP campaign aspect...

Any advice is appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[pdoan8]

With the VI being release in less than 2 weeks, I am not sure if STW can keep you interested for long unless you plan not to buy VI.

IMO, STW (MI/WE) will be very enjoyable even after you've been playing MTW for a long time.

- Tactical battle in STW is much more intense and challenging than in MTW.
- Fewer unit makes the gap between each unit level smaller.
- AI is a little better in tactical combat.
- Trategy part is simplier, the map is smaller means you could have a lot more battle in the same amount of time you spend for MTW.
- Geisha: ultimate assasin.
- Kensai: the bigger than life sword saint who can eradicate a whole unit of regular swordmen single handed ... make that two hands.
- In-game movies.
- Endgame movies.

Well, I don't know why I just like STW more than MTW.

[starkhorn]

If your going for STW and have never bought anything for it then I suggest getting the Warlord edition. This contains the original STW plus the Mongol Invasion add-on.

The warlord edition gives more features like having different starting time periods for the SP campaign with quite varying starting positions for each faction. The Mongol campaign is quite good as it introduces lots of new mongol units. The warlord edition also gives more Japanese units as well that were not in the original version, kenshai, battefield ninja, etc

The historically battles and campaigns are all really challenging as well.

I agree with all of pdoan's points.

Although I would say that seiges aren't as good as MTW as there are no seige weapons at all in the game.

Cheers
Starkhorn

[Brutal DLX]

Also, you might notice that the campaign map is looking a bit simpler and lackluster, at first glance. I never noticed this before MTW came out, but after I played MTW a lot and installed Shogun again for a little campaign, it was really obvious. But I also don't want to forget mentioning the nice ambient music.
As for the rest, there are less facilities that can be built, and less units, and there are seasonal turns, rather than annual ones as in MTW, although you get income just once a year.
The battle system is the same, so overall, go buy it if you're interested in that epoch and culture. (And I agree, go buy the Warlord Edition, it's the complete thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

[Daevyll]

Personally I find STW much less enjoyable than MTW.

The AI isnt any better from what I have experienced, quite the opposite. From a strategic viewpoint there is simply much less to do, and alliances are even more worthless than in MTW (ie the AI breaks them even faster).
Also I find the subject matter for MTW much more interesting but that is of course highly subjective.

MTW is an improvement in every sense except for the little movies when a ninja/geisha goes to work.

[Sir Black Raven]

Well before MTW appeared STW was the only game that allowed us the fans of massive battles to use large amount of armies in the field in a way that we never had before . Plus when u join the asian culture and the role of the Samurai and start reading all about there is to read on Japan then u become a fan of STW. The Sengoku Jidai period was the bloodiest of all in Japan. In those days several ruthless Daimyos rise in the conquest for the title of Shogun....Plus altough the maps are smaller the upgrades of the facilities take lesser time and there aren't so many type of armies and soldiers like in MTW. Tough that limit the choice u need to know better their strenght when it cames to best use them.Altough the archers and the musquets in STW plays a decisive role in the battlefield. they r deadly. Then u have the throne room a pearl of wisdom, the ninja and gheisha movies ... well do i need to say more? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The_Emperor]

Go on, buy all the total war games... You know you want to

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Nelson]

I would get Shogun if you want to see the Total War engine in 16th century Japan. Strategy is simpler but still challenging and vast samurai armies are impressive looking.

[Goatus Maximus]

Thanks for the input...I'll check it out

[Michael the Great]

Hey,BTW I only had Shogun and not MI,I think I'm gonna buy it,coz I liked Shoggy more than MTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[AggonyShim2]

well... seeing as how shogun is the only TW game i play (for now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif) i figured i might drop in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif i think it was KenchiTerazawa who once stated that MTW was alot of fun, but if you want to get past the newbies and play hardcore, shogun is the place to be. in shogun (multiplayer) there isn't long journeys to find and attack your enemy. you start and boom, 50 feet and your in attack. some of you may call this 'simple' tactics yet it is very challenging using your ranged units effectively, guiding your h2h units to battle in tact, and keeping your general alive, in a very close quarters. some of you may say that all it is is head to head fighting and no strategy, there are miles of strategy. each player has his own way of strategy and it is very interesting because mainly... there aren't all these different units. the winner is ALWAYS the better tactition, not the stronger army.

[cugel]

How could you not buy Shogun WE - MI? You have to love those in-game movies where your ninja kills the priest I always used to laugh when the samurai spearman marches by only to see the lantern (with a ninja hidden inside) get up and start creeping after him. Next scene the spearman is impaled on his own spear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Or that great scene with the Geisha "entertaining" a group of generals by playing the lute, next you hear their grunts and screams and see her demurely exit the room and close the door, then cut to them hanging by the lute strings, etc. I always wondered how she did that so quickly.

Great stuff and provided real atmosphere. Too bad they didn't do that for MTW.

Also the cool movie where after your Daimyo is killed your new daimyo receives the oath of loyalty from the clan.

[Sir Black Raven]

Yes Cugel those movies are awsome indeed. That was one of the reasons that i kept playing WE. Also there are a one mod created where Yamagawa Clan starts with a gueisha. If you dont neutralise him first u find your daimyo assassinated in a few years. Pretty though that mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Tera]

Shimmy is right about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif STW/MI are both 'smaller' in scale than MTW. Shogun stretches for just 100 years unlike the 400 years of MTW. But remember that while MTW works with a year per turn, Shogun works with a season per turn (spring/summer/autumn/winter)...so the STW campaign isn't short, but the map is much smaller.

The strategy map mode is much less complex than MTW...it is quite straightforward. While MTW has 100+ units, STW has only 20 in all. This doesn't mean that the battle mode is simpler...it's the contrary...the units involved might be less of a burden to discover...but STW's tactics are deeper - good engagement, flanking and so on are extremely important.

Estimates by veterans say that MTW has 50% less
need of skill than the original STW. It's right - Shogun was originally aimed for the hardcore wargamers rather than for the masses. Quite says it all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Reasons to buy Shogun: Total War - The Warlord Edition (make sure you buy this so that you have the original STW + Mongol Invasion x-pack):

- mate, it IS Total War anyway :-)
- extremely interesting culture + time
- deep tactics in battle mode
- Playing on 'expert' level with difficult clans like Shimazu or Imagawa is still very very enjoyable for the very best...you will find a challenge for sure.
- STW will run extremely fast on most PCs today.
- you will discover the roots of Total War and perhaps understand MTW better
- THRONE ROOM (something unfortunately missing in MTW)
- EVENT VIDEOS (awesome vidoes that show you assasinations, deaths etc, also missing in MTW)
- Soundtrack and music is just amazing. It won several well-deserved awards for its music.

In short you will have fun with this must game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Tera @ May 01 2003,11:00)]Shimmy is right about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif STW/MI are both 'smaller' in scale than MTW. Shogun stretches for just 100 years unlike the 400 years of MTW. But remember that while MTW works with a year per turn, Shogun works with a season per turn (spring/summer/autumn/winter)...so the STW campaign isn't short, but the map is much smaller.

The strategy map mode is much less complex than MTW...it is quite straightforward. While MTW has 100+ units, STW has only 20 in all. This doesn't mean that the battle mode is simpler...it's the contrary...the units involved might be less of a burden to discover...but STW's tactics are deeper - good engagement, flanking and so on are extremely important.

Estimates by veterans say that MTW has 50% less
need of skill than the original STW. It's right - Shogun was originally aimed for the hardcore wargamers rather than for the masses. Quite says it all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Reasons to buy Shogun: Total War - The Warlord Edition (make sure you buy this so that you have the original STW + Mongol Invasion x-pack):

- mate, it IS Total War anyway :-)
- extremely interesting culture + time
- deep tactics in battle mode
- Playing on 'expert' level with difficult clans like Shimazu or Imagawa is still very very enjoyable for the very best...you will find a challenge for sure.
- STW will run extremely fast on most PCs today.
- you will discover the roots of Total War and perhaps understand MTW better
- THRONE ROOM (something unfortunately missing in MTW)
- EVENT VIDEOS (awesome vidoes that show you assasinations, deaths etc, also missing in MTW)
- Soundtrack and music is just amazing. It won several well-deserved awards for its music.

In short you will have fun with this must game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Allright Tera,a few questions though....

*Wich campaign is more challenging the Mongols Invasion or the normal ones?
*Does it have 'eras' like MTW's 'early' 'high' and 'late'?
*Is there any visible improvement in graphics?
And:
*Do mongols wear flags at their backs? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tera]

1. Personally I found the MI campaign to be somewhat lame. First of all anyone who buys it must download the 1.02 patch immediately. The 1.02 patch causes trouble with the historical campaigns but its extremely valuable for the SP full campaign. I prefer the Japanese campaign...longer, you can build buildings, train units and so on. The Mongols do nothing but invade, and fight. And it's quite easy. Playing Oda/Shimazu/Imagawa in the Japanese campaign is much more challenging.

2. No it doesn't have eras.

3. The graphics are worse than in MTW. But it's a fast game on today's machine, unlike MTW, which lags on even the fastest machines when playing big team games in highly textured maps, especially coastal ones.

4. Lol, I don't remember, but I guess not.

Tera

[Popeye]

Weighing in on the differences I see in MTW and STW.

I'm glad the Geisha is gone.

I'm glad the Kensai is gone.

I'm glad naval matters are more than merely ports.

I'm glad that generals are more than just the number of stars.

I'm glad to see Princesses, and all that they bring to the game in terms of bloodlines, diplomacy, and spying.

I'm glad the AI won't subject itself to repeated massacres in a bridge province they simply cannot hope to take.

I'm glad diplomacy isn't as easy.

I'm glad that heavy cavalry can't charge infantry with impunity.

I'm glad that there are units specific to given factions. I just wish I could tell which ones without memorizing the tech tree.

I'm glad that there are siege weapons, even though I personally just starve the forts out more often than assault them.

The one thing about STW that still recommends it is playing the Mongols, since their whole strategy has to be different from any other faction in either game.

Other than that, MTW is more to my liking.

[Michael the Great]

Less units DOESN'T mean less strategy.
MTW has too many unit types,that when are combined in to an armym it's too annoying and hard(not 4 me though) to make them a good fighting force,with all the 'good attack'
'weak defence' 'AP' etc.
This detracts from teh FUN factor wich I treasure most,and was more in STW(and in MI hopefully http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) than in MTW.

[Michael the Great]

Hehe,btw,there is a japanese chess game called shogi
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[cugel]

"Allright Tera,a few questions though....

*Wich campaign is more challenging the Mongols Invasion or the normal ones?
*Does it have 'eras' like MTW's 'early' 'high' and 'late'?
*Is there any visible improvement in graphics?
And:
*Do mongols wear flags at their backs?
"

1. The Mongol campaign quickly becomes boring. Either you play the Mongols, in which case after you fight and win a few battles against the Hojo you have destroyed their main armies. The rest of the map is a cakewalk. On the other hand, if you play as the Hojo, after you win the first few battles, the Mongols have no hope. They just launch a few more invasions with weak forces, which you crush.

The fun of the Mongols is playing single battles when you just want to unwind by crushing and destroying your enemies Very therapeutic after a tough day Pretend the Japanese are your boss or your spouse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

2. There are several historical eras. Each era has a different starting position, so it plays out quite differently. This is the chief value of the expansion MI and greatly adds replayablility.

3. Graphics in MTW are better, but it's not that big a deal really, since in Shogun it's offset by the change of seasons. It's fun playing in winter during a driving snow-storm.

On the other hand, castle sieges are very simplistic in Shogun. They can't even close the gate and you can't breakdown the walls. You can only fight in a big mob at the entrance, there isn't much tactical finesse here.

[Tera]

True, there are "eras" but they're 20 years apart mate. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Can't really call them so. And factions are more or less the same in them all.