I will or will not buy Rome Total War

[Mount Suribachi]

OK, Soly said it was OK. I'm sure by now we all know about the problems with Viking Invasion that spoil what is otherwise an excellent expansion - particularly the 56 year bug. Not patching such a gameplay inhibiting bug is inexcusable on Activisions part and shows a worrying lack of concern for their customers. It is their decision whether to patch BTW, not Creative Assemblys. At the time of writing there has been no announcement, which usually means no.

So this thread is an attempt to get Activisions attention by applying the pressure where it hurts the most - their wallets. If you agree with this sentiment then all you have to do is say the magic words.


I will not buy Rome:Total War unless Viking Invasion is patched.

[The_Emperor]

I think your far too critical of VI. True there are minor bugs like the 56 year one, but those in itself hardly make this game unplayable

Besides we are all looking forward to RTW on here so much I doubt you could persuade many people not to buy it

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Sorry, I'm all for principal, but...I NEED ROMENOW.

[MiniKiller]

guys, he wants a patch and his point is if we let it slide what next? maybe in rome there will be more unfixed bugs, and they wont care casue u all say u dont care and will buy it anyway. you have to take a stand sometimes in order to make a game BETTER

I wont buy Rome unless VI is patched.

[Shahed]

How did these bugs get through testing anyway ??

I see your point Suri, I preordered RTW as soon as it was available for preorder. In the meantime I have become increasingly tired of the bugs in MTW. I play much less now. I do play other games much more. I probably will cancel my order, and buy another game such as:

--E V E-- (http://www.eve-online.com)

It is just too much of a waste of time to live with these bugs. There are better games out there.

[Monk]

well i'd have to say i cant agree with this, after all the preveiws of R:TW that have been shown to me there's no way on earth i could not buy it. and im sure that once its out you will be sneaking out and buying it yourself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Shahed]

They are doing a good job on RTW. However I do want some support for game bugs. I expect that if the product is not fully ready for release there will be support to amend the problems. I do not hate CA, and I always hope that they will do what is necessary to fix things up. I really hope RTW will be bug free.

Meanwhile I will settle for this:

http://www.eve-online.com/screenshots/21012002/07n.jpg

http://www.eve-online.com/screenshots/21012002/05n.jpg

Try downloading this movie, from what I hear this game has support i.e properly patched etc.

E V E Angelic (http://static.hugi.is/games/ccp/EVE-angelice.wmv)

[Portuguese Rebel]

Ok it seems im the only one supporting MS in this thread, but hell, if i even got a WARNING thingy over a stupid post i made in the bug thread, there is no way im not going to support you MS...

Count me on NOT buying RTW unless Activision patches VI. I consider VI not unplayable but severly handicaped as a game because of this bug. When RTW is out, what is there to assure me that the game won't be full of bugs and be dropped right after being sold, like it seems to be happening to VI?

I think some of you guys are getting the eye candy fool you too much. Graphics NEVER made a good game. It helps a lot, but no great game ever relied on it alone to make it. If in RTW your Emperor pretender dies real quick and you lose the game all the time what are you going to do then? Start a "This time i will not buy the next game" thread?

Activision better get its act together, other companys may look at this gold mine and launch some clones. And even a clone that is well worked and PATCHED will make them bitte the dust.

[MiniKiller]

Exactly, I dont disargee with you guys, I want Rome Total War BUT if activision cant keep VI patched how will they do with a bigger badder game? The eye candy is fooling you to much, you gotta look at the whole picture. Bugs slip through but will continue unless we make a stand (Ok the last line was a little far fetched but hey, it can happen)

[Wilbo]

Im afraid I have to agree with the poster. The current trend of Creative Assembly / Activision to not patch the games really is too much.

I now have no doubt that Rome will be extremely buggy, and will not be supported properly, much like Medieval.

I will not buy Rome, unless the patch / support situation improves.

[Demon of Light]

As it stands now, I'm sorry my brother bought VI and so is he. Rome LOOKS great and everything it is SUPPOSED to do is great. The question though is whether or not we can trust these people to make a good, stable game that will get adequate support. We are not automatons that will simply and mindlessly drop $50 (US) on a product because it bears a brand name (Total War). We must intrinsically trust that the product is well made and well worth the expenditure of money we make. That trust cannot exist if this company as an entity acts in a manner that is contrary to our interests. If we purchase a game and find that it does not work as well as it was advertised and that no effort is made to correct the problem, then our interests (we did spend money on this after all) suffer. Consequently, I'll not place myself in that situation again.

I will not buy RTW unless I have reason to believe I will be well satisfied with what I purchased. Fixing VI would go a long way towards giving me that reason.

[Jagger]

We received patches with the Shogan and MTW. So why does everyone seem to assume we will not receive a patch with Viking? Has CA announced that they will not provide a patch for Viking??

[Shahed]

There has been a subtle hint that there will be a patch. However the last official statement is NO PATCH. In any case the patch for MTW 1.0 improved things, was VERY late in coming. And now finally we have again to wait for a possible patch.

Personally a patch is very important to me continuing to play the game. More important though is that enough time is spent on RTW to ensure that the game is stable to start. After that there must be further testing and patches released in order to fix problems that may have been missed in the initial release. This is to be a continous procedure, if one patch is released, more testing has to be done, community views taken into account and further patches released if necessary. Necessary is what is necessary for the players.

Another note about RTW. I sincerely hope that adequate historical research is done to represent to a reasonable degree of accuracy the times of the Romans. MTW is very different from STW in that the units and general representation of the times is hugely inaccurate. If a game is based on history it must be reasonably accurate historically. If I want a game that is not based on history, there are a huge number of games to choose from why buy RTW ?

The market for a game such as STW is one which is demanding.

[Longasc]

Viking Invasion introduced a new feature and several new units, a new campaign map/era and...

... a slew of new bugs,

e.g. the

"Die at 56" - bug

and Quicksaves sometimes crashing the Campaign Map.


Viking Invasion was all in all a MIXED BLESSING. It divided the community of online players in those having VI and those not and it ADDED actually some bugs

This cannot stand. Medieval: Total War should not end up with more bugs than in the 1.1 Patch.

It is also a question of principle: Imagine the year 2004. The latest addition, Rome: German Invasion, lets all emperors die at 56 and some new exciting features appear bugged, while having some new units and features the game has more bugs than with the R:TW 1.1 patch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


I do not think it would be inhuman to DEMAND those problems patched.

"We want Rome now, even flawed and bugged, but we want it now, we cannot wait. And let Medieval be with its new bugs, we no longer care for it, we want Rome now" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

As SeljukSinan said, there are other Games out there. I did not like Eve, but I do not think Creative Assembly should be rewarded by buying their products if they leave business unfinished.

I really like M:TW. Just correct these bugs. They really pissed me off, I did not play Medieval anymore after my last campaign and experiencing mainly those two bugs mentioned

And NO, I will not buy and support ANY game of companies if they do not finish patching their games of well known bugs.

These games are what the crowd usually gets from www.sharereactor.com, plays and then deletes... it is the FANS who actually support and BUY their favorite games. If they get the feeling they are just good for pumping in money, they will probably do as I said before, too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

I think Rome was not built in a day, and it is surely time to work on a Patch for the latest obviously BADLY tested Expansion-CD

To put it bluntly: I will not buy Rome: Total War if these bugs are not fixed before.

[MacGregor]

I've had more problems with crashes since I installed VI, and the King's death at 56 bug takes the fun out of campaign mode for me totally.

[MF_Ivan]

Dont crap your pants, theyre working on it...

[Warmongerer]

I will not buy RTW unless VI is patched first.

P.S. - I wasn't planning on buying RTW anyways. Petty bickering between Roman legions doesn't tickle my fancy the way all-out religious war between Christians and Muslims does. The Roman thing just isn't my bag, man. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Sir Robin]

Ouch... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Alot of hostility in here.

I guess that is my main difference from many who play PC games.

I am a "casual gamer."

Life does not give me much time to play. On the rare occasion that I actually do buy a game, I have to take a day off work to enjoy it.

I hate bugs in new releases. It has however become a fact of life. Marketing and budgetary pressures common in business force these decisions. Software is about the only product that does not suffer from "recalls." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif This is also a reason for expiring support. They have to make a new product to satisfy contractual, budgetary, and investor demands.

Software has the potential of being fixed without having to be recalled.

Expansions and patches can cause bugs simply because the changes/additions are not expected to cause them.

I am not a programmer because, even with debuggers, I could not scan/create millions of lines of coding. It is their job to do this and, hopefully, something they love to do.

The only program I have ever purchased that received alot of patch support was the Star Fleet Command series. Which led to my purchase of the terrible, in my opinion, SFC3. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Hopefully CA will avoid the "third swing, you're out" curse. They will try to support the product and also try to make sure it has the fewest bugs possible.

I will purchase RTW because I enjoy the premise and enjoyed the MTW and STW release versions even with the bugs.

I think a patch should be released for VI. If for no other reason than, release version software is not bug free.

I also feel a MTW patch should be released to bring MTW up to version 2.0, just don't include the Viking campaign.

For there to be any official statement of "no patch" is denying the reality of all software products. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

While a patch may not be the priority, companies should continue to provide some support for prior products. If CA or Activision takes this route then they will alienate the very customers they seek.

However, the visits of CA personnel to this very board show a continuing interest in their clients' needs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

I have heard and experienced far less favorable reports on Activision itself.

If another company produces a Total War clone better than what CA produces? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Commercial Darwinism in action. I'll buy it and play it.

Of course, that also means I'll be looking thru their forums wondering when their patch is coming. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Oops, sorry, hadn't read the "my king is dead" thread yet.

[Longasc]

A bit off-topic, but I really liked SFC3 for a short while. Too bad that the "Dynaverse" was not as fun to play as the Singleplayer-campaign. The overall stability of Dynaverse Servers was that of a banana-product. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Rocket_Boy]

To be honest, I can't imagine them NOT patching this bug - the kings dying at 56. MTW has had its share of bugs since release, however this is the first one that has seriously detracted from my enjoyment of the game. I just think that its a real shame that since a lot of work has obviously gone into the expansion for such a bug to slip through.

In my first campaign game with VI installed, the problem was obvious when 7 kings all died in the same year causing me to look at what could be causing this. Its the sort of thing that any kind of playtesting should reveal.

We are fortunate enough that CA have staff that take enough pride in their work to visit these forums in their own time to address our questions and concerns. It seems that the decision on a patch at the end of the day lies with Activision. How they can justify not patching this bug, I don't know. From a business point of view it just dosen't make sense since a large source of advertisement for any game is word of mouth. Before VI, I have reccomended MTW to many of my friends, several of whom have gone on to buy the game. Since this bug, my advice would be, don't buy VI until this is fixed

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ June 08 2003,19:47)]Sorry, I'm all for principal, but...I NEED ROMENOW.
agreed

[Brother Derfel]

I have already stated that i will not be buying R:TW untill they patch VI.

My copy of VI has remained on my shelf for about 2 weeks now and seriously, I want my money back. What a rip off. I pay £25 to make my gaming experience of my favourite game of all time a lot less enjoyable. Thanks alot

[The_Emperor]

By the way didn't STW:MI split the online community as well?
(most expansion packs do)

Still I don't see any reason why they would make a patch, I mean its not like they are going to gain anything financially from deciding to help out a few dissentful voices in the online Boards.

Companys are motivated by profit, and right now RTW, the next big project is the thing thats going to supply that profit.

[Brother Derfel]

This is not about the comunity split for me, and surely if VI is a good game then people will all eventualy move towards it anyway.

And if Activision/CA are so money based that they do not care about their true fans then they have lost one customer for good. I will never buy another games made or developed by Activision or CA. I will know that if they do not offer support for this game then they won't for any other.

And don't you think that they are loosing many potential customers who havn't bought Vi yet and will be put off by the fact that people have now reported that it is so buggy?

[econ21]

I think there will be a patch, although reading in between the lines, this is not something CA directly control and so pressure here probably doesn't hurt. What I find a little annoying is that I - and probably quite a few others - bought VI primarily as a patch to MTW (to fix the GA goalds and improve siege resolution + AI trading) and to support CA. If there is no patch to VI, there will be some loss of goodwill that was already tested by having to pay for what in effect was a patch.

You can work around the 56 year bug for your own faction with .unfreeze. at age 39. However, it probably hits the AI factions. Just had the Spanish wipe out the Almos on early as usual and then the whole Spanish faction disappeared into a mass of rebels. I haven't backtracked with old saves to check, but their king hitting 56 with no heirs is my prime hypothesis to explain this implosion.

[Old Bald Guy]

I started a thread saying exactly this same thing in March, I believe. I said I wouldn't buy VI because of the lack of support. And, like many, I bought it anyway. However, I bought VI because there isn't anything else out now I wanted to play. When I started the thread, I got severely flamed for saying I wouldn't buy VI. I predicted more bugs would appear that wouldn't be fixed. I'm very sorry I was so prescient, but it's not like it was a giant leap in logic.

I doubt I'll be fooled again. When RTW comes out, there will be several games on the market which will compete for my small budget and limited time to play. I'll be buying and playing Half Life 2, for sure. While no doubt there will be bugs, Valve has patched Half Life for years. I KNOW there will be support for their game. They'll get my money, not because of a boycott of CA's product, but because I am sure I'll get support; I'll get my money's worth and my money is very limited.

The slippery slope applies, folks. If they think people will buy no matter the bugs, they'll keep putting out games with bugs and shrug off the complaints. Perhaps we won't get a patch for VI, because so many said they'd buy it anyway, even if it were not patched. There have been a LOT of games which have suffered the fate, and companies which are no longer here. There is simply a limited number of game players, and no company can afford to alienate their customers for long with bad support.

For now, enjoy playing RTW when it comes out. Complain loudly and say how you won't buy the expansion pack when it comes out because the bugs haven't been patched. I'll be playing something else.

It's a cruel world out there in consumer land.

OBG

[Foreign Devil]

I, in this thread of silly declarations, would like to declare that I fully intend on purchasing R:TW. VI has done nothing but enhance my enjoyment of the game... even if I have expeierenced a few highly inconvient crashes.

Please, before you hurl the proverbial invective at all things Medieval, remember the countless hours it has stolen from your lives. What else would you have done with those hours? I, for one, am pretty sure I'd be out living my life to its fullest... haha I jest. I'd be playing a less fun game, and so would you.

Can anyone tell that whining, justified or not, annoys the heck out of me?

I'd also like to declare that if Microsoft charges $100 for Halo 2, I will curse the day Bill Gates was born all the way to the electronics store, where I will promptly buy my copy just like everyone else.


While I'm on the subject...

I'd like to declare my love for one Angela May Johnson, who knows that I'm a big dork and doesn't care. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 09 2003,13:24)]You can work around the 56 year bug for your own faction with .unfreeze. at age 39. However, it probably hits the AI factions. Just had the Spanish wipe out the Almos on early as usual and then the whole Spanish faction disappeared into a mass of rebels. I haven't backtracked with old saves to check, but their king hitting 56 with no heirs is my prime hypothesis to explain this implosion.
The same thing happened to the HRE... I had agents in most areas and kept a good eye on things and when the leader died without any Direct Hiers a massive Civil War broke out (because the HRE elects its generals and they started squabbling for power)

Is it me or are the Germans always the most likely faction to get a Civil War?

[Maniac]

I will not buy Rome:Total War unless Viking Invasion is patched.

But I won't be loosing out on the game. If VI won't get patched I'll get a pirate version of Rome. Hmm I'll actually bring VI back to the store and download it too if the situation doesn't change.

[Beirut]

Hmmm, after hearing all this I'm going to wait to buy VI.

Reminds me of the fiasco with Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3. CFS1 was rock stable. CFS 2 was nearly as good. CFS3 was a dog's breakfast of bugs, glitches, horrid graphics and single digit FPS (even if you ran it on a monster PC).

I tried to trade my one-day old copy on-line for MTW. No takers. I ended up giving it away free to the first person to respond to the post. $80 down the tubes. I'll never buy a MS product again unless it's proven. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Shahed]

This is NOT a thread of silly declartions. It is a thread expressing the discontent caused by the bugs in the game. Requesting that these bugs be fixed, and that RTW is better tested, and reasonably bug free.

[KukriKhan]

*Kukri posting his personal opinion*

This site:
http://www.payscale.com/research/vid-18643/fid-6886
lists payscales for dev/programmer-types in US $'s (65-90K per annum).

Assuming it would take 1 top-earning guy 1 month to patch VI (in other words: make v2.1 of MTW), it would cost $7,500 in diverted labor (also assuming that "guy" would be taken off RTW development...potentially delaying it's deployment, and therefore realization of profit by a month - not an unconsiderable factor).

So the question is: who pays that 7500, and why? Activision? They'd have to sell at least 150 extra copies of MTW or VI (that they wouldn't have sold otherwise) to compensate that labor cost alone (ignoring the costs of distributing the patch).

Those figures are at best, hypothetical...but they give me an idea of the hurdles involved in any business decision to apply resources to a project. Will they sell more VI if it's patched ? Is the goodwill of buyers an economically measureable factor considered? Will they sell 150 less copies of the next game due to customer disgruntlement over the last?

All that said, I will join the chorus (sort of):

"I am skeptical about the reliability of RTW, because of unresolved issues with MTW/VI. Therefore I will not pre-order RTW, until either
1) VI is patched, or
2) early-adopters of RTW give it the "thumbs-up" 2 months after release."

[Knight_Yellow]

i got bored with medieval and subsequently VI.


i couldnt realy care less if VI gets patched

infact i hope it doesnt since that will give CA more time to spend on making Rome a better game.

just my point of view

[Foreign Devil]

Sorry to have offended you Sinian. However, my amusment stands.

In fact, I declare that I continue to be amused...

[ChaosShade]

I will not buy RTW unless VI gets patched and I mean it. I quit paying for three MMORPGS because of a lack of support even though I enjoyed them despite bugs. You do not get my money if you shrug off bugs and that is that. I can play caesar III for my rome fix at least that has few to none bugs in it

[ChaosShade]

keep in mind that not only will those saying that they will not buy RTW until we get a VI patch be doing this personally but they will not recomend Rome Total War to thier friends...or at least that is my stance on the issue

[Brother Derfel]

Ah, Ceaser III What a game. Thanks for reminding me I have it. That game has taken nealry a much of my life as MTW.
I can't rmember ANY bugs for it.

[de la Valette]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 09 2003,07:37)]Is it me or are the Germans always the most likely faction to get a Civil War?
My history of this era isn't that great, but weren't the princes within the HRE constantly fighting each other? Whilst this may not have been a civil war, its probably the closest you could get within the game to simulating this.

Oh and just to throw my hat into the ring, VI has made the game far more enjoyable for me and whle the bugs are slightly annoying, they have no major effect on my enjoyment of the game.

As for Roman total war...hmmmm...looks great but i have doubts that i just can't quite put my finger on about how the battles will play out given the unit types i have seen so far.

[Mount Suribachi]

Hehe, stirred up a real hornets nest here...

Anyways, just to clarify, I am not dissing VI as a bad game, in fact I love the VI campaign - it reminds me of Shogun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

But CA/Activision need to take this seriously. Word of mouth - mainly via the internet - is hugely important to games sales these days. If the Total War series gets a reputation as having great gameplay but being buggy with no proper support, sales WILL suffer.

As it stands VI is 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It adds a lot of little improvements, but also adds a couple of big clangers, and leaves other stuff un-fixed. Not to mention the lack of proper MP support. I don't play MP at all, but even I can see the total lack of support for MP for MTW. As has been pointed out, many games have multiple patches - especially for MP - MTW has had 1 patch and one exp. pack and thats your cracker.

Not good enough for a PC game in 2003.

[Maniac]

Maybe this thread should be moved to the entrance hall so the new guys can express their opinion as well?

[Longasc]

I agree with Maniac. Everyone should have the option to participate.

[Shahed]

Quote[/b] (Foreign Devil @ June 09 2003,14:50)]Sorry to have offended you Sinian. However, my amusment stands.

In fact, I declare that I continue to be amused...
hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Np Bro. I'm not offended at all.

I thought you were misunderstanding the nature of this thread, and the purpose of it's creation. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

So I felt I should mention why I participated.
I love the TW series but some things must change.

[Orda Khan]

Well I for one would prefer if CA learnt to walk before it tries to run

......Orda

[tgi01]

I think ill just wait for the bug reports be4 i buy RTW instead of buying it on the release day as I did with VI ...


TGI

[sassbarman]

I'm in full agreement with the poster here this bug must be fixed. I'm completely confused as to how this obvious bug passed testing, and even more confused as to why Activision isn't rushing out to correct this problem. I mean really can it be that difficult and time consuming to get this thing done. It seems like a small sacrifice of time and money on Activision's part to make everything in the totalwar universe right again.

[Sir Robin]

My apologies but I am having an attack of pessimism.

Was Viking Invasion tested?

[Satyr]

I am sure that Viking Invasion was tested. It is a substantial bit of work. However, to fix the dead at 56 bug couldn't possibly take more than 2 days of programming. If they want to be more thorough and fix the ransom bug too then I can see this taking longer. But still, it would cost so little time and effort to fix, I don't understand why they haven't committed to fixing this yet.

[DemonArchangel]

i won't either, but my reason is different

i have NO money

[Knight_Yellow]

hmmm an old saying comes to ones mind when reading this thread


"You would cut your nose off to spite ur face"

think about it

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Actually Knight_yellow, i wouldn't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

What's the difference between warez games and legit copys? Support...

Now you think in the meaning of this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Crazed Rabbit]

I will not buy R:TW unless VI is patched. I don't want the designers thinking they can release a half-baked game on us again and again. (VI wasn't half-baked, but that's not the point.)

R:TW is not the only game out there. Plenty of great games around the time R:TW is being released.
Half Life 2 is one I'm interested in. I still play Day of Defeat occasionally.
Homeworld 2 is another. I played through all of Homeworld Cataclysm (Which I haven't done with any other game besides Baldur's Gate.) and loved it. HW 2 is going to be even better.

Unfortunately, my three year old computer is showing its age, and I don't want to buy a whole new comp just to play a buggy game.

Most of my time with VI has been spent online, so now I wonder if I should've bought it. The devs promised to make it easy to mod and add new factions but in the Dungeon, people have been complaining how this crashes the game. Where are the so called improvments?

Also, ALL OF THE UNIQUE IRISH UNITS HAVE LOW MORALE. I mean, for crying out loud, even Gallglasses, an ELITE UNIT, has low morale. This continually bugs me, even if it is "historical" (did the Elite warriors of Ireland really have low morale? Have the Irish been known for running away? Maybe they confused the Irish and the French http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )

Besides, all we've seen so far of R:TW is eye-candy. And we all know eye-candy doesn't for a great game by itself (M:TW has all sprite units).

All that said, R:TW looks great so far. And they'll have movies again But that isn't enough to convince me.

And, Knight Yellow, I won't be hurting myself if I don't buy R:TW. Like I said before, it is not the only game out there.

-Crazed Rabbit-

P.S. Devs, please give the Irish some decent morale in the patch. Also keep up the hard work on R:TW And be sure to have LOTS of playtesting When it's 3 am and the testers are moaning something that sounds vaguely like 'sleep', don't give in Work them to the bone Tie them to the computers Threaten to torture and kill them if any bugs are in the released version (I am of course kidding here, it is only necessary to kill them, you don't have to torture them.)

EDIT: typo

[MiniKiller]

If CA people reply to other topics once in awhile why cant they reply here ahhh

[Knight_Yellow]

ive thought about it.

dont know what magnificent shining light im supposed to discover though.

at the end of the day CA probably dont care about VI anymore and i for one hope they have all of their resources are focussed on rome.

and not some expansion pack that will be obsolete in 6 months anyway.

[KukriKhan]

Quote[/b] (Maniac @ June 09 2003,09:03)]Maybe this thread should be moved to the entrance hall so the new guys can express their opinion as well?
Sounds like a good idea at first glance; but I'd hate for the thread to lose steam, since the main hall gets more traffic (including EH patrons who can't post here yet).

But I will copy over any posts requested by a Junior Patron.

[Papewaio]

KY think it through.

RTW comes out, then a single patch for SP and a maybe a few crumbs for the MPs "not a significant market share".

Then the expansion comes out for RTW.

Then they focus on the next game. After STW, MI, MTW, VI don't you see a trend, independent of the publisher, where very few patches are released.

Based on the previous four releases you can expect 1.5 patches per release. So why do you think RTW will get any better treatment?

I bought MTW after the first patch came out. VI I have no intention of buying while the die at 56 bug is out there. Nor will I buy RTW until I hear that it is ok.

For the marketers out there they can understand the term Branding. TW series has a great name as a Brand for concept, developer involvement at the websites, music, mix of real time and turn based, large battles of soliders, used to have a great name for cutscences and character immersion with the Throne Room which added to the feeling of diplomacy. TW has a very very poor brand name when it comes to patches and MP Campaigns.

I remember last time that the blame was placed at EA for the patches. Supposed to be better supported with Activision. Anyone else remember the assurances that TW was getting the full support from the publisher. Well the status quo is the same, either CA purposely lied to us or where not as fully in the know as they thought themselves. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me. Seems we all have been made a fool of by CA.

Bottom line is the Brand Name TW is damaged as far as patch support is concerned.

----

PS as for the Irish Morale you can mod that, as to the kings dying at 56 you cannot.

[Lehesu]

Lehesu will probably buy R:TW regardless of the patching situation. However, if R:TW turns out to be a bug-ridden mess, I will probably refuse to buy it and continue to play Diablo:2 WHICH BLIZZARD IS PATCHING (albeit slowly) EVEN THOUGH THE GAME IS OLDER THAN MEDIEVAL AND THE PATCH ISN'T EVEN FOR BUGS THEY ARE ADDING NEW STUFF JUST TO ADD ENJOYMENT TO THE GAME Blizzard has released tons of top-selling games, including Warcraft III, yet they are STILL taking the time and resources to patch an older, but still well-like game BRAVO I wish that the same would happen with the Total War series.

[oblivious maximus]

Im sorry but if i happened to see RTW for sale,im gonna gobble it up like the cookie monster

What bothers me more than the 56 is when a general dies,he is replaced with one of his soldiers that picked up all his traits and stars.Only some please.I appreciate the attempt,but you might as well let the old guy live.

Still optimistic of a VI patch.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 09 2003,22:16)]Lehesu will probably buy R:TW regardless of the patching situation. However, if R:TW turns out to be a bug-ridden mess, I will probably refuse to buy it and continue to play Diablo:2 WHICH BLIZZARD IS PATCHING (albeit slowly) EVEN THOUGH THE GAME IS OLDER THAN MEDIEVAL AND THE PATCH ISN'T EVEN FOR BUGS THEY ARE ADDING NEW STUFF JUST TO ADD ENJOYMENT TO THE GAME Blizzard has released tons of top-selling games, including Warcraft III, yet they are STILL taking the time and resources to patch an older, but still well-like game BRAVO I wish that the same would happen with the Total War series.
1.10 is out? Hmm... I just might have to pick up Diablo II again. Of course, Blizzard had to put up with neverending greif from its "fans" that make this thread look like Activision worshipping.

I'm still amused, to those it may concern... the bugs in VI aren't exactly crippling, so I don't think that Rome's going to be massivly unstable or anything.

And even if there are several annoying bugs, I will still drool on my keyboard. Drool, I tell you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Well, first of all, I am not buying VI until it is patched

But I just can not imagine Activision will not produce a patch for VI... some of the bugs are really annoying... I just can not imagine. But if they don't I am sure as hell gonna think twice before buying RTW which I would probably buy the day it comes out if they do produce some customer support

But most patches are released 3 months or so after the actual game comes out... so they still have time... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[hrvojej]

I agree wih Pape. If VI is not patched, I will not buy RTW unless/until it's patched. The bugs in VI are not really showstoppers, but deter from enjoyment, and the potential to make the game more polished just cries out every time I play.

[Longasc]

The bad thing is, Viking Invasion is a mix of expansion and upgrade/patch - and what did it patch compared to MTW 1.1? It added new features and new bugs.

They probably rushed VI. Without proper testing. Let the customers do that. Easier and cheaper. It is not demanded too much to ask for solution of these problems.

It is up to the customer not to encourage the production of flawed software. You paid for the game, and if you think you got a bugged product, then you should NOT buy more games from the producer if they do not fix it in time.

I see Rome: Total War coming out, the normal patch to 1.1, then it has still some issues, the Expansion pack probably added new stuff and was highly praised, but added also some new bugs... but why patch that old game, the crowd hungers for Napoleon: Total War. And that will bring some more money than patching a product those fools already paid for, haha...

But it really damages the image as Papewaio said, and a customer caring for quality will not make the same mistake again. He will probably feel cheated and cheat CA, by getting the game the "lousy" way. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I can understand the position of the guys who said they don't want to buy VI until it's patched. It's helping to improve the chance of it getting patched. Because most are hardcore gamers and will stand to their word. So there are potential sales if a patch comes out. 'Tis a logic that appeals to such companies like Activision.
However, for those of us who already own VI, it would be a silly thing , in my opinion, to just go and state "I'm not going to buy RTW unless VI gets patched". You bought VI already. And if RTW is good, you will buy it as well, because you can't tell me you wouldn't want to buy a game of the Total War series if it's really good. Whether or not it will be good, remains to be seen, so there's no point in stating such a thing right now. It is not generating any pressure at all on the decision makers.

And just for the record, VI fixed a lot of things, the 56 year bug is the only thing that comes to my mind that could seriously detract from gameplay, but it is by no means a showstopper. AI factions might reestablish themselves, and for the player, there's the .unfreeze. workaround. Also consider the chance of that happening, I've played 4 campaigns since installing VI, and I've never even came close to losing a game due to no heirs. The MP aspect is a different story, I will readily admit. There are some things that can spoil the fun, which could need a little patching.
All I'm saying is, don't get so negative, and look at the positive improvements also. Somebody said it's 2 steps forward, 1 back. Well, that's still an advance, in my understanding.

[Rocket_Boy]

Quote[/b] ]What bothers me more than the 56 is when a general dies,he is replaced with one of his soldiers that picked up all his traits and stars.Only some please.I appreciate the attempt,but you might as well let the old guy live.



Try the green generals console command, which can be found in numerous posts in the forum.

I think that the real issues here are goodwill, trust and company loyalty. MTW still rates as my favourite game ever despite the fact that I have'nt played it in weeks cos I'm pissed off about the 56yo bug. However if this were not patched effectively and within a reasonable time, I would certainly feel a bit cheated. It is almost llike we are being told "we've got your money now, sod off". As I said before CA strike me as good company with good staff and VI is good as expansion packs go, but it should have recieved a hell of a lot more playtesting than it did. It pisses me off that companies often seem to release pc games early with the thought, we can patch any problems later.
150 extra copies of VI does not seem like an unrealistic figure when you take into account peoples reccomendations etc. and future sales figures based on our goodwill.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]What's the difference between warez games and legit copys? Support...


No, m8, the difference between this two is that warez are stinking piracy and are literally destroying one of my favorite hobbies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
So please do not advertise this crime here or I have to give you a very serious look http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Not buying a product from a company that shows not enough respect towards the customer is of course a reasonable strategy. But I think people are a bit exaggerating here. I don`t think the age 56 bug is sooo terrible, it`s actually what I call a minor bug. About not working quicksaves, I don`t know, didn`t have any of that, yet. All in all, VI seems to have only minor flaws. The CTDs I had with v1.0 were much worse. On the other side has VI added a lot of features and has definitely increased my respect for CA. Well done guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Yeah, VI should be patched as any new product with bugs should be, but to boycott CA because of this also dangerous. Their target group is not as large as Blizzard`s and I`m sure they have to calculate any investment very seriously to survive in this buisness.
So, what do you prefer? High-qualitative add-ons to exceptional computer games with unaddressed minor bugs or the 100th Counterstrike-clone?

[Nowake]

This thread is nonsense, in my opinion. If we want good games, we have to support CA. I believe that their common sense will get them to top http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kyodai-britishbeef]

I AM NOT BUYING ROME TOTAL WAR , i have bought shogun , the mongol invasion add on and meieval total war and the V.I add on and the lack of support since m.i has been disgacefull and the bugs still inmtw are a joke as mtw was basically an shoggy changed to medieval europe (with bells on )but they still have a major bugs (especially in multiplayer) so im sorry but my love affair and my will to part with my HARD EARNED money has ended with v.i . Even if there was a patch it still wont be enough for me ,i feel badly let down and i have had enough http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Gazza the Lionheart]

I wont be buying RTW if it's as buggy as MTW and VI. And to thse who say the bug doesn't affect gameplay that much i'd tend to disagree. I was recently playing as the Aragonese and lost four kings in the space of ten years which basically ended my game. Tell me how that doesn't affect gameplay.

[A.Saturnus]

I lost four sultans in ten years in MTW v1.1. That you have no heir and the campaign ends due to that is not a bug. Originally it would never happen because you had some 200 years old relative who could become king.

[solypsist]

Thank you everyone for making this a constructive thread. Whether this thread will make any difference to the game staff who decide on matters such as game patches is beside the point. While some may question the usefulness and validity of a thread such as this one, it does allow us, the game-purchaser, to have a collective voice on this VI matter.

I, too, have to admit that having the King die at 56 is a royal bummer. I find myself constantly checking his age; knowing that he will die at 56 has turned my campaign into an heir-watching activity which has taken precedence over enjoying moving armies and planning strategy.

Let's hope good news is forthcoming.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (MF_Ivan @ June 08 2003,21:04)]Dont crap your pants, theyre working on it...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif uh...wait a minute http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif you are telling me that CA is working on crapping my pants? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I find this concept a bit frightening...I'll have to read the license agreement more closely next time. I hate it when I wave rights to my own bodily functions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

The 56 bug is unfortunately a rather large bug and makes the game too predictable. Hope CA will develop a patch (and one for the AI tech tree problem with region bonuses.) This would be a better use of their time then hijacking our bodily functions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ June 09 2003,21:23)]My apologies but I am having an attack of pessimism.

Was Viking Invasion tested?
Could be a lot worse... How about the bugs with "Enter the Matrix"? Now THATS an example of a game that shouldn't have been released http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Longasc]

Crazed Rabbit, I must agree.

Right now we know next to nothing about Rome: Total War. Eye Candy and Videos are enough to convince the Hardcore Total War Freaks? I cannot believe it.

It is more something to dream about, let us hope as the quote on the RTW page says:

"even if it breaks half of the promises here, it'll still be a contender for game of the year"

Hope so. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But as I said: I will not buy it until they fix the last major remaining bugs of Viking Invasion.

[bhutavarna]

voice of the masses huh...

I agree with the poster of this thread. As a loyal fan of this game series, I have to admit that I will be EXTREMELY disappointed and my interest in buying Rome TW will be reduced SIGNIFICANTLY if CA do not fix VI bugs.

More importantly, I also agree with others that we should NOT allow this, CA not patching VI, to become a PRECEDENT for future TW series. I think it is our rights and responsibilities as fans and consumer to demand quality from games we BUY.

So I DECLARE that I will NOT buy Rome TW unless VI is patched. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ June 10 2003,07:36)]No, m8, the difference between this two is that warez are stinking piracy and are literally destroying one of my favorite hobbies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I wasn't advertising warez. I was stating the difference between warez and legit material. Lets get real, the only way to get to Activision (they are responsible, not CA) is through $$$$. A 13yrs old kid WILL save his money for another game and download a warez of RTW, since there will be no difference between the legit and warez copy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Wilbo]

It is true that I wish I had waited for the patch before purchasing Medieval. It took ages to finally get one, and those problems were never fixed.

I shall definetly wait to see what the online community thinks before buying the game. If its real bad, I shall probably just play the demo, and Shogun.

Shogun looks lovely at 1280 x 1024.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Gazza the Lionheart @ June 10 2003,08:49)]I wont be buying RTW if it's as buggy as MTW and VI. And to thse who say the bug doesn't affect gameplay that much i'd tend to disagree. I was recently playing as the Aragonese and lost four kings in the space of ten years which basically ended my game. Tell me how that doesn't affect gameplay.
I think exactly the same, i want a patch, the spanish version is horrible, i've to modify the location files for a correct translation and for correct governor titles in the correct provinces. The 56 years bug is a bad thing. VI is a buggy game, and when i purchased VI i thought i was paying for a patch and some additions, and now i've the same, a buggy game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[NewJeffCT]

I have not yet bought VI, and I will not if these responses are any indication of the product. VI itself does not interest me a lot, I am more interested in the new units and changes to MTW itself. I still have not patched my original MTW because I did not want to lose those campaigns – even though they seemed to have died because of the building queue bug (and I am *not* about to destroy a Grand Mosque or a Master Foundry 13 to 15 years into construction, or a Fortress 18 years into construction to work around the bug.)

[GilJaysmith]

You should probably express your opinions to Activision, who make the final decision about the patching policy for their games. You can probably find their support email addresses on their site or somewhere in the MTW documentation.

BTW, it ought to go without saying, but if you say anything like "I'm going to get Rome through warez rather than buy it" then your opinion will be ignored. I amn't interested in debating this; it's just a fact, so deal with it.

[Mount Suribachi]

Thanks Gil, for re-iterating that it is Activisions decision to patch or not.

On a related topic, I wonder how the folks *really* feel about not being allowed to fully patch their games? They are the feudal vassals of Activision and so wouldn't be allowed to say anything negative about them, but...I would imagine that they would be very protectective of their "baby" and to (possibly) be forced to release games early and not offer full patch support would probly stick in their throat a bit. Y'know, suffering for their art and all that

[Sir Robin]

Is it hot in here or is everyone just http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif off?

Make love not war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

Plant a tree not a mine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Save the whales not the latest he-is-trying-to-get-laid-and-all-these-women-will-do-him-for-a-million-dollars-because-we-
make-the-roman-mob-look-like-mormon-missionaries-by-comparison-as-long-as-we-don't-get-our-hands-dirty. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Relax people its just a game.

Except for Rome Total War, that is my breath, life, need, I must have it, I will fill a bath tub with its game boxes and rub them all over my bod... erm... uh... oookay.

Oops... missed my medication.

I will buy RTW because I like the idea behind the game and the company that is creating the game. I am sure it will have bugs since all software does. I am also sure that it will be harder than pulling teeth for Activision to approve of a patch. Those who know Activision will probably agree with me.

That is why I like the "when it is done" release date answer. Hopefully this will give CA the flexibility with Activision to resolve most bugs before its release.

Yes, CA should have caught and corrected this bug. I doubt they would say otherwise.

Yes, Activision should approve a patch. I doubt they will but I also still believe in Santa Claus.

Threads like these will continue because we as a society are spoiled. Entertainment exists to keep us from realizing how out of shape and underpaid we are.

Must stop ranting...

I think I wet my armor.

Must stop ranting...

Power to the people http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ June 10 2003,13:36)]Their target group is not as large as Blizzard`s and I`m sure they have to calculate any investment very seriously to survive in this buisness.
So, what do you prefer? High-qualitative add-ons to exceptional computer games with unaddressed minor bugs or the 100th Counterstrike-clone?
Well Blizzard games are well known for being well polished, with excellent MP and ongoing support. Maybe if the Total War series (great games tho they are) received those last finishing touches, a little attention to detail, a little more patience in release, a little more work on MP and a little more support after release then they would have a larger audience, hmm?

As for your last point, I would rather have a high quality add on with no unadressed bugs. You make it sound like the only choice is flawed genius or perfect generic shooter. Not the case at all.

[NateEngle]

Personally I know I'll be a customer for RTW. Given that one of my all-time gaming favorites was "Master of Magic" I'm not about to criticize VI. Even after 3 or 4 tries MOM still had bugs, yet if you scan newsgroups on Usenet you find that there are still plenty of people who insist that if a "MOM2" was created they'd be customers sight-unseen.

I wouldn't mind if there was a patch for VI, because it sounds like some of the complaints would be easy enough to fix, but compared with stuff like MOM's super artifact bug or its undispellable "Guardian Wind" spell VI is already darned near perfect.

[Ser Clegane]

I have not given up my hope yet thet there might be a patch (it cannot be that difficult to fix that bug, can it?).

However if there will not be a patch, I will not buy RTW

[Jxrc]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ June 10 2003,11:51)]"You should probably express your opinions to Activision, who make the final decision about the patching policy for their games."
Sorry to say I find this a weird answer from CA. Indeed you trademark is nevertheless associated with VI. I have of course no idea of the deal that was entered with Activision but I would be amazed to learn that CA does not have the means to voice its opinion in case its trade name and the goodwill attached to it are damaged as a result of the sale of a bugged game.

No offence meant to the people who have the courtesy of posting a message here from time to time. I indeed think it's pretty decent of them to read and reply to the best of their knowledge.

We would be better off if Activision were to have the same attitude and just tell "Oops - Sorry for silly blunder - Patch to be release on XX"

Whatever XX would stand for we would just need to wait until then with VI picking up dust for a few more weeks or months ...

That would save us the trouble of asking the same question every two days (or to send an updated question to activision every 96 hours ...) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Longasc]

That is not an answer. That is just making Activision the boo-man. Okay, then I will sent mail to Activision.

I think you intended to say that it is Activision's decision if there will be a patch or not.

I completely agree with Jxrc, does Creative Assembly not have the possibility to voice it's opinion?

Or is it because it has been reported to Activision that the final Patch for M:TW has been released with Viking Invasion and nobody dares to say - HEY, WE STILL NEED TO FIX A THING.

I am not depending on Rome: TW. I need neither to buy it nor download a warez-version. It is in CA's OWN interest to finish patching the game. It might not hurt to lose one customer, or two or three or four.

"The Customer is King", not true.
The Customer is a beggar, begging for a final patch. But the only beggar on the world that actually PAYS.

The only reason why Activision or CA, whoever, can afford NOT listening to customers wishes, is that they do not care about losing some of them. There are still enough to buy the next game.

But I will not continue feeding companies with money that can afford ignoring their customers. They just need to take care that they do not piss off too many.

This is really bad, as I like Medieval (and Shogun). But I will not promote such patching policy by rewarding it by paying for the next game while the old one still has some bugs that really %$"%$"%" many players.

[GilJaysmith]

I'm not an official CA spokesperson, so I can't give you an answer to a lot of questions, nor can I give you an official statement. I post here on my own time to help with technical and game-related issues. When it starts getting heavy, as has happened here, I can't help you, nor am I going to take on any kind of 'unofficial spokesman' role for anyone's benefit. There's nothing I can do except tell people at CA about this thread, and suggest what I personally think is your best chance of getting what you want.

[Jxrc]

As I said, no offence intended in my post. I really mean it. Quite nice to know someone is kind enough to read all this and mention it to whoever makes the calls.

I would be interested to learn from someone with the technical knowledge I so deeply lack what he would assume to be a reasonable timeframe for fixing a problem such as the 56-bug.

I am not asking when the patch will come out or when they will release, if it will be globla or solve a problem at a time etc ... I am just wondering what it would take to fix that kind of bug. Is it just an afternoon of work oe does it imply to gather of team of 10 programmers for a whole week.

I ask this because that could probably help us to understand what is actually going on and whether we are expecting way too much from Activision when we hope to get a solution in a matter of days or week ...

So, GilJaysmith, any wild guess?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ June 10 2003,14:23)]There's nothing I can do except tell people at CA about this thread, and suggest what I personally think is your best chance of getting what you want.
Your presence here and your goodwill are highly appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Dimeola]

Have played STW and MTW from the beginning and am playing VI. I remember years ago an article on the upcoming STW and how the engine would be designed to evolve to cover many periods. Overall I have greatly enjoyed all the games. Are they 100% perfect? No. But I am satisfied. Getting a game such as this thru all the stages as a perfect game ontime is near impossible. This series is by far one of the better i`ve purchased.
Yes I would like to see followup in the patch. And I guarantee you from the committment i`ve seen here and read about CA that these guys want one. There are many frustrations to dealing with `Corporate`, understand well what CA is up against.
I will buy RTW, will love it....who is out there making anything even close?
Croaker

[Knight_Yellow]

u know what

CA probly wont make a patch so im going to note every1's name here who said they wouldnt buy RTW

i bet not even 10% keep to their initial statement.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

i bet there are people in CA that would like to make a patch... But they do not hold the decision.

How do you guys think Blizzard got its reputation? By dishing out their customers? Hell, they release patches even for those tiny almost insignificant bugs no one noticed... Exactly how expensive is to fix this bug? I can't believe it would affect the development of RTW. Taking a technician from a project for a day ain't gonna do squat to RTW. Distribution? Man... use Kazaa for all i care, im sure everybody would get their hands on it on the spot.

[MacGregor]

I probably will end up breaking my promise and getting RTW, but only by stealing it.

[Longasc]

Lets see what happens. Seems that the Thread got an audience. 1367 views so far.

[Brother Derfel]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 10 2003,15:30)]u know what

CA probly wont make a patch so im going to note every1's name here who said they wouldnt buy RTW

i bet not even 10% keep to their initial statement.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Gah

So I am on KY's list.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I shall stand by my statement to the bitter end. Besides I have just borrowed Half Life and When HL2 comes out I will snap that up. I still have to get Enter the Matrix as well so all of my Computer game money will be spent.

Of course I could always miss out on either of them if Activision give CA the algo on a Patch for VI. Then Rome will get my money. Not before then.

[ChaosShade]

Quit threatening to steal rome total war if they dont patch. It doesnt help one bit.

Far better to say your going to buy some other game instead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Gazza the Lionheart]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 10 2003,15:30)]u know what

CA probly wont make a patch so im going to note every1's name here who said they wouldnt buy RTW

i bet not even 10% keep to their initial statement.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I've said it before and i'll say it again. IF ,notice I said IF, RTW is as buggy as MTW and VI then I won't be purchasing it. If however there are bugs that don't hinder gameplay or if and when the bugs are found a patch is released that fixes them I will then and only then hand over my hard earned cash.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Ser Clegane @ June 10 2003,14:39)]
Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ June 10 2003,14:23)]There's nothing I can do except tell people at CA about this thread, and suggest what I personally think is your best chance of getting what you want.
Your presence here and your goodwill are highly appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I'd like to second that motion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[DDogwood]

All I have to say is that the more of us who send support messages to Activision, the more likely they are to release a patch.

If they are going to make more customers happy by leaving VI un-patched and spending that time and money developing a new game, they will do that. If they have enough customers who are unhappy enough to e-mail them reporting the bug as a nuisance or requesting a patch, then they will decide that these customers represent enough of their business to merit a patch. Threads on fan boards will help, but I imagine that these are less important than messages that go directly to Activision Support.

So if you haven't already, e-mail Activision and report the bug Tell them you want a patch

[Lehesu]

Saturnus, I like CS. And some of the clones are pretty good too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (DDogwood @ June 10 2003,22:11)]All I have to say is that the more of us who send support messages to Activision, the more likely they are to release a patch.
I don't see anyone supporting Activision here. It and CA are two seperate entities.

Activision is a business. If it is a good business decision to release a patch, then that is what they should do. Whether or not they think this is a good decision is really dependant on how they think. A few emails might influence them, or it might not. What will and does influence them are sales figures. Medieval has these figures in abundance. Thus they believe, correctly I might add, that Rome will sell too.

A few minor bugs do not unmake a great game. One can only hope that any bugs in Rome are so minor. And don't forget that they did make a patch, albeit a little late, for Medieval.

[tootee]

another suggestion.. if you have got spare money, buy some (or alot of) Activision shares, go to their AGM/EGM, and demand they pay more attention to post-sale support like patch, naming specifically MTW-VI.

ATVI last traded @ 11.93

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

What email addresses do we have for Activision? I got support@activision.co.uk

Any others we can try? Be sure to link this thread with its many hardcore Total War players saying they will not buy RTW unless VI is patched.

And remember, we may have "only" 20 people or so saying they won't buy it, but how many more lurkers are there out there? How far has the TW having poor support word spread? Like I said earlier, word of mouth via the internet is hugely important these days for games sales. In 5 minutes potential customers can go on-line and find out what a game is *really* like, rather than reading a review by someone who played the game for 5 mins after his mag promised a 90% score if they got the exclusive review...

[Magraev]

I'll join up.

I'm still hoping that they'll release some kind of fix for the problems with VI, and until then I'm keeping my hands off rtw, atleast until ppl here say it's bug-free.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ June 10 2003,11:51)]You should probably express your opinions to Activision, who make the final decision about the patching policy for their games. You can probably find their support email addresses on their site or somewhere in the MTW documentation.

BTW, it ought to go without saying, but if you say anything like "I'm going to get Rome through warez rather than buy it" then your opinion will be ignored. I amn't interested in debating this; it's just a fact, so deal with it.
Ok, i agree with this, but the spanish version is horrible. It's one of the worst spanish versions i have seen. The translation is bad, and in some occasions, it causes bugs, an error message instead the description of an unit (mongol heavy cavalry, it's a bug of MTW), the titles doesn't match with their respective provinces: in Nicaea i 've the title of Duke of Anatolia. In Anatolia i've Duke of Rum, etc, etc. There are additional and mistaken lines of the Golden Horde in the variables files. I was be able to correct the bug editing the file and adding the characters "//" before the line. I've corrected nearly all translation mistakes. I've passed dozens of hours correcting the game. And now i knew by reading this forum that there are "additional bugs" like the 56 years bug. So i've paid for a patch that causes more bugs or additional bugs in the game. Boooooffffffffff, my patience is out. Will i buy RTW?. If RTW have dozens of bugs and activision don't authorice CA to develop a patch i won't buy it, never. My experience with MTW/VI is bad, i don't like buggy software.

[FesterShinetop]

Quote[/b] (DDogwood @ June 11 2003,04:11)]All I have to say is that the more of us who send support messages to Activision, the more likely they are to release a patch.

If they are going to make more customers happy by leaving VI un-patched and spending that time and money developing a new game, they will do that. If they have enough customers who are unhappy enough to e-mail them reporting the bug as a nuisance or requesting a patch, then they will decide that these customers represent enough of their business to merit a patch. Threads on fan boards will help, but I imagine that these are less important than messages that go directly to Activision Support.

So if you haven't already, e-mail Activision and report the bug Tell them you want a patch
I agree with this. The more people report this bug, the more Activision will take notice

But keep it civil of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

And I am not going to buy Activision shares, I own 60% allready http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif I wish... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Longasc]

Just looking forward to the answer of Activision. I did even include a link to this thread.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ June 11 2003,00:33)]What email addresses do we have for Activision? I got support@activision.co.uk

Any others we can try? Be sure to link this thread with its many hardcore Total War players saying they will not buy RTW unless VI is patched.

And remember, we may have "only" 20 people or so saying they won't buy it, but how many more lurkers are there out there? How far has the TW having poor support word spread? Like I said earlier, word of mouth via the internet is hugely important these days for games sales. In 5 minutes potential customers can go on-line and find out what a game is *really* like, rather than reading a review by someone who played the game for 5 mins after his mag promised a 90% score if they got the exclusive review...
I am going to mail them.

[Old Bald Guy]

At this point, it appears there will be no fixes for the problems which have caused a thoroughly enjoyable game to be less than great. They got my money. That's it. Ok, no mas. We're even at this time.

It's really too bad. How much time we it have taken to correct the 56 bug? Imho, this should have been done the very next day. An immediate recognition of such a small but important bug would have gone a long way to making us feel the game is as important to them as to us. Putting it off on Activision, true or not, is not good at all.

KY, please put my name at the very top of your list, then watch closely. Check every hour to see if I've broken my boycott. Don't sleep. Keep me to my promise. I'll be playing Half Life 2.

OBG

[Jxrc]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ June 11 2003,06:02)]I did even include a link to this thread.
Longsac, sorry to say that you should not expect too much from Activision, I left a link to the thread about kings dying at 56 a few weeks ago ... It did not speed up anything so far ...

Needless to say I hope that I am wrong ...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Asmodeus]

This thread is growing to biblical proportions :o

I will not buy Rome Total War unless VI is patched. Not being able to fix existing bugs is bad enough (e.g. regional valour) adding in new ones is a mortal sin - and I work as a software developer myself, I would have my ass kicked for doing it.

I, like the others on this list, am aware that it is the publishers Activision (seemly almost as evil as the publisher 'InfoGreed' - as they have justly deserved to be nicknamed) who are responsible for funding it. From a professional point of view though, it doesn't bode well for CA if their hands are tied to such a degree that either sufficient testing time is not allocated or patching not allowed. I should imagine CA are less than thrilled at this prospect.

So to make sure my rebellion is aimed at the right target I will add to this boycot by announcing that:

I will not buy any further Activision (or bloody InfoGreed who I HATE) published titles until VI is patched, and only then after i have checked forums such as these to ensure I am not being sold buggy code (i have enough of that to deal with at work&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

However, if CA find the means to find a more scrupulous publisher I will be more than happy to exlude them from this Jihad - providing they patch VI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

As for the piracy debate (i dont approve of it as the same thing could happen to my work) but I think InfoGreed deserve all they get http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Rocket_Boy]

Could I suggest to the mods that this topic is made a sticky until the issue of a patch is clarified one way or the other.

[kataphraktoi]

I got some influential links in Asia, I will get it banned from Southeast Asia - Activision will be sorry - and lose the Asian market.

I wish.

I WILL NOT BUY ANY SWILL FROM ACTIVISION UNLESS THEY RELEASE A PATCH FOR IV WHICH I DON'T HAVE YET BUT HOPING TO GET SOON.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ June 09 2003,07:34)]For now, enjoy playing RTW when it comes out. Complain loudly and say how you won't buy the expansion pack when it comes out because the bugs haven't been patched. I'll be playing something else.

It's a cruel world out there in consumer land.

OBG
I agreed completely with you. If there is no patch for VI i REALLY won't buy RTW. No patch, no more Activision games.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 09 2003,22:16)]Lehesu will probably buy R:TW regardless of the patching situation. However, if R:TW turns out to be a bug-ridden mess, I will probably refuse to buy it and continue to play Diablo:2 WHICH BLIZZARD IS PATCHING (albeit slowly) EVEN THOUGH THE GAME IS OLDER THAN MEDIEVAL AND THE PATCH ISN'T EVEN FOR BUGS THEY ARE ADDING NEW STUFF JUST TO ADD ENJOYMENT TO THE GAME Blizzard has released tons of top-selling games, including Warcraft III, yet they are STILL taking the time and resources to patch an older, but still well-like game BRAVO I wish that the same would happen with the Total War series.
Paradox is doing exactly the same with Europa Universalis II and Hearts of Iron. Europa Universalis II has seven patches after its release. Paradox is developing the eighth patch. Hearts of iron, a game of December 2002 has four patches. Paradox is developing the fifth.

A good example of customer support....

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (Rocket_Boy @ June 11 2003,07:46)]Could I suggest to the mods that this topic is made a sticky until the issue of a patch is clarified one way or the other.
why don't some of you just make this thread known to other MTW sites so people can log on and add their voice

[einar]

Quote[/b] (solypsist @ June 11 2003,09:56)]
Quote[/b] (Rocket_Boy @ June 11 2003,07:46)]Could I suggest to the mods that this topic is made a sticky until the issue of a patch is clarified one way or the other.
why don't some of you just make this thread known to other MTW sites so people can log on and add their voice
I've posted it in the Paradox forums (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90698)

[DDogwood]

Quote[/b] ]I don't see anyone supporting Activision here. It and CA are two seperate entities.


Sorry, I didn't mean send an e-mail to Activision expressing support for them, I meant end an e-mail to Activision asking them to support the software by creating a patch.

CA is a great developer, and judging by MTW and STW, they make great games. Activision, in my experience, is a mediocre publisher. They release some excellent games, but as many others have stated, the level of support they provide is not where it should be.

The last Activision game I bought for my PC before the Total War games was Heavy Gear II. That game came out a long time ago, but Activision's lack of support left a bad taste in my mouth, and rendered a brilliant game virtually unplayable. The game wouldn't even run in most computers without a patch. So was the patch readily available on their website? No, of course not. Activision Support did send me the necessary files; however, the game also contained a number of crash bugs linked to the sound software it used. After a couple of weeks of daily e-mails to and from Activision, the developer who created the sound software, and HP (my computer manufacturer), I finally gave up trying to make the game run properly.

Apparently Activision is still more interested in selling new games to new customers than in developing loyalty among older customers. I agree with other posters here that our best hope is to let them know that we want a patch.

[bhutavarna]

Looks like Activision is responsible for this mess. I think it's fair to put pressure on them.

Therefore I will revise my earlier pledge.

I DECLARE that I will not buy Rome TW or any other ACTIVISION products for PC or consoles, if VI is not patched

[Simovek]

I won't buy R:TW if big bugs in VI and MTW aren't fixed. I'm not going to pay 50-60 US $ for a game that I can't even trust to be well tested and with few bugs.

[Greeny]

Email to Activision UK sent. Hope it makes a difference.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good idea, bhutavarna.

I hereby declare that I will never buy another Activision product unless VI is patched.

Great support makes for great games. Even the maker of Masters of Orion 3 are making a huge patch. Perhaps it will be a good game someday.

I'll be playing Homeworld 2. I'll wait until there are no complaints here and every single bug has been fixed before I buy R:TW, so probably 6 months after release.

And to those who think we are on a fool's errand and say that the 56 bug is no big thing. You are right. Taken by itself, the bug, though very bothersome, hardly ruins the game. It's the fact that such a noticable bug exists that is terrible. Even the most mediocre play testing should have caught that bug. The fact that the game was shipped with that bug, and probably others, shows that Activision just doesn't care enough. Perhaps they thought we wouldn't notice. Well, I do not like my intelligence being insulted like that If the company ships crap games out just to make a quick buck, then I won't buy their products Did they really think we'd be so stupid not to notice? Or maybe they didn't know about the bug. This is even worst, and shows that they didn't do any playtesting

If this keeps up, I might just mail PC Gamer to warn the people about VI. I do not want to do it, because I want to see more TW fans. But the people must know

Also, I know the units can be modded, it's just that I can't play online with modded units.

Well, at least finals are done today. Hurrah Summer

-Crazed Rabbit-

[Foreign Devil]

Last night, I was playing an early campaign as the English, and around 1150, both the Egyptians and the Itailians were wiped out by this bug within 3 years of each other. The Italians were one of my main rivals and I had just sent a crusade to palestine...

I guess this might be a little more annoying than I thought.

[Wheatley]

Quote[/b] ]and Quicksaves sometimes crashing the Campaign Map.

Longasc, is this what crashes SP? I was wondering what that was.

[Magraev]

Remember the 56 bug isn't the only one in VI, just the most obvious one. In the apothecary there is a whole list of other bugs. Maybe none are true gamekillers, but I can't understand why activision doesn't want to fix them - I would see them as a major embarrasement, and they are alienating the customers (us). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Foreign Devil @ June 11 2003,21:02)]Last night, I was playing an early campaign as the English, and around 1150, both the Egyptians and the Itailians were wiped out by this bug within 3 years of each other. The Italians were one of my main rivals and I had just sent a crusade to palestine...

I guess this might be a little more annoying than I thought.
In my actual campaign, all the factions are afected by this bug. I nearly finished my campaign by this bug. I managed to survive. But the english, the french, the polish, the spanish, the italians, all of them have had civils wars, and the english, the french and the polish have disappeared and reappared later. But after the reappearance of a faction, this faction is weak, and its contribution to the campaign is poor.

All of this for the 56 years bug.

[Mount Suribachi]

Its not so much the faction dying out thing, that can happen anyways, and Royal lines did die out IRL.

Its the whole thing of knowing that you, and everyone else dies at 56. My King is 40, I know I've got 16 years till he dies - or more accurately - 15 years till I send him on a suicide mission (might as well take a few of 'em with yer&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. I've just been xcommed by the pope - how old is he? How many years till he dies and I'm no longer excommed
? It just ruins a large part of the game with its total predictability. Try as you might, you can't avoid looking at your kings/princes ages.

It should be patched, and I won't buy RTW or any other Activision game till it is.

[bhutavarna]

does anybody know why 56?? it seems like a odd number to me.

i think i experienced similar bug on MTW where my king always dies at 1300.

[Demon of Light]

Why 56? answer goes like this: Leaders of units now die after 40 years right? When does every prince come of age? 16. He leads a unit when he comes of age. So he dies 40 years later. At 56 years of age.

[Longasc]

Wheatley,

Yes. Quicksaving is bugged, too.

I saved some games -> they always crash before returning to the campaign map. Only if you neither autoresolve or manually fight, you must call of the attack, there is a little chance that you can continue playing.

I found this bug even more annoying than the 56-year bug. Spend half and hour, quicksaved after the battle - reloaded it and everything was ****

[dlundie]

Its good to see such passion for the game in here. I like the Total War series and to be honest the only two games in 6 months i bought were MTW and VI. I feel the frustration of bugs in these games and hope that the relevant people would take note of our concerns. However i do support the product as it is the best available game for this type of gaming. Its a good product with some faults and i believe that Rome will be the same. Yes i will be at the store waiting for my pre-pay copy to come in and yes i will complain about the bugs as well. But i wont stop supporting a game that i do get so much enjoyment out off, and being active in telling its pro's and con's. Take the good with the bad guys.

[Hobart]

The news of the bugs in VI (as yet unowned by me) is very disheartening.

I wont buy it with either the quicksave bug nor the 56 year old bug.

And I agree: if this is the level of committment shown by Activision to MTW and VI, then I sure as eggs wont be going near RTW until it gets a clean bill of health.

Of course, if something changed, and VI started to get some decent level of support (within a reasonable time frame) then I would be much more interested in getting RTW and living with the fact that it might need patching afterwards.

[Hakonarson]

I play a game - my kings die when they die, I have had 3 unprovoked crashes/lock-ups, but the game is still good - and it's still a game.

Anyone who says they aren't going to buy game "X" until game "y" is "fixed" is a mug IMO - you guys should all still be playing pac man, 'cos there's no such thing as a properly patched game

[scsscsfanfan]

I think as many has mentioned here, the sad thing is that no matter how many of us saying Not buying RMW unless VI fixed, Activation will do what ever they have in their plan - patch it or not - regardless. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[Nowake]

Well, I agree on this part; and we need a patch, CA ...

[Old Bald Guy]

From yesterday's Gone Gold--www.gonegold.com

>>I'd also like to thank David Theriault for letting me know about the Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin strategy guide available at www.battlefront.com (also the home site for the game). He purchased version one of the strategy guide, then when version two was released, the company sent it to him via Fed Ex for free That is just absolutely amazing. I have never heard of that being done before, and even though I'm not sure how many CMBB players we have as community members, that level of customer service is so outstanding that I wanted to mention it anyway.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Hmmmmm how odd. Not buying a sequel because the previous game isn't patched? I mean come on.

Example, Dynasty Warriors 3 has that EXTREMELY annoying fogging, Dynasty Warriors 4 come out June 27th, it will be my favorite PS2 game and I won't not buy it because of the fogging, I mean, I don't mind playing a superb game through its flaws, much like MTW is a GREAT game, so what it has bugs but I'm not gonna sit here and threaten not to buy RTW because its prequel isn't PERFECT.

I still play MTW everyday regardless of these bugs, personally I couldn't care less if my King dies at 56, I just don't pay attention to his age anyway so it rarely bothers me, and besides 40 turns lifespan max is fine by me.

There are flaws with this game, example been how armies turn their entire forces diagonally which has not noticable strategic merit what so ever, but I don't see people complaining about that. So what it has a few bugs, but trust me a few people saying they won't buy RTW till a patch comes out won't exactally make them jump to make a patch, in the world of gaming not everyone can be pleased, and would you like them to take time out from making RTW and slow down production so a patch can be brought out quickly?

[bhutavarna]

Hakonarson said
Quote[/b] ]Anyone who says they aren't going to buy game "X" until game "y" is "fixed" is a mug IMO - you guys should all still be playing pac man, 'cos there's no such thing as a properly patched game

I believe we demand the bugs be fixed not simply because we are annoyed by it, but also because there are bigger goals that we are trying to accomplish here. That goals is to inform CA, Activision, and people who bought or will buy the game that there are problems with it and they are significant enough to raise discontents among us. It is very important, IMHO, that we do this, to protect ourselves as consumers and to ensure that improvements are made to future games.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not the game is actually patched, because it is playable the way it is. What matter is how Activision or CA responds to our complaints, because it tells us what kind of publisher or developer they are.

As far as threats we made about not buying anymore games from Activision, it's a tool to gain their attention, to give us leverage in making our case for a patch. We all know that the most important thing to these guys is selling their games, and the only way we can hurt them is by not buying.

Whether or not we really are going to commit to our threats if Activision do not patch VI, that's a whole different issue. And I'm sure some of us will think twice about committing suicide after the battle is lost.

[Crash]

Unfortunately I only read the posting about the age 56 bug the day that I bought VI, after I came home with it. I have not installed it yet because I know that I will always have this issue in the back of my mind while I'm playing it.

But I will probably still buy RTW hoping the patches will be included in the new game. Hopefully, I won't find out the bugs are still there the day after I buy it...

[Papewaio]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ June 12 2003,22:00)]I play a game - my kings die when they die, I have had 3 unprovoked crashes/lock-ups, but the game is still good - and it's still a game.

Anyone who says they aren't going to buy game "X" until game "y" is "fixed" is a mug IMO - you guys should all still be playing pac man, 'cos there's no such thing as a properly patched game
I think you are a bigger mug for putting up with shoddy support.

With a cars if a model gets a rep for shoddy workmanship then not only later models but the entire company gets a bad name.

For myself I stated that I would not buy VI until it was patched, just as I did with MTW.

Some companies in the gaming industry do patch and more then once. Bioware and Blizzard are two good examples of this.

Yes I prefer the idea of doing big patches that fix everything. But I do not like the premise that after the first one all other patches require buying another product/add-on.

CA said with STW that it was EA making do this with patches. They then said that with Activision that they had found a publisher that was fully behind the TW concept. Guess who are the badguys for the patches again? The publisher. Sorry but it seems a little to much of a stretch that after dropping one publisher for another the same sequence of events has happened.

I will be very surprised that RTW will get more then one or two patchs without getting the next add-on. That was true for STW, MI & MTW so why would we think the trend will suddenly change in a yet to be released game.

They can see that we quite happily pay for the products as is and we shall remain mugs by accepting the situation. Just like a stupid mob of sheep ready to chew on the next patch of grass.

[Swordsman]

Yup, I actually complained to Activision-- and got the stock reply "we know about the problem" and "our policy is to not comment on possible patches". Sooo- they won't even tell us whether or not they PLAN to fix it.

That's it for me. I'll buy RTW-- AFTER it's been out awhile, support issues are resolved, and it's in the bargain bin.

[troymclure]

oks been a while since i've posted but this is one issue i gots to throw my two cents into.
Not patching a game with known bugs is IMHO f"()*&ed.
Having said that, i would like to stick up for CA, they've told us it's a publisher problem and i see no reason to think they're lying. Having said that i do think they need to have a look at their current relationship with their publisher if this is the sort of support they get. I mean the 56 year bug is so bleeding obvious that if someone played through the game more than once they should have picked it up. what to infer from this? Pathetic Q&A (testing), now i know that CA probably have a deal with Activision whereby activision does all the Q&A work (most developers can't afford much in the way of in house Q&A) but i think it's pretty obvious that activisions Quality assurance department needs to be put out to pasture and i really do think that CA need to do something about it if they want to keep their current fans loyal (i'll admit this is testing my resolve, so far CA has produced the least number of patches for ANY game i've ever bought).
having said that i don't blame CA, there's a saying in the Game's industry.
"all publishers are blood sucking b(*&(*&ds who only care about profit, hate games, drink blood and are generally the scum of the earth....."
i think it was john carmack who said it first or something....:)

[SideshowBob]

Well I haven't been keeping up with the total war forums recently. I've got VI and i've played it through to the end at least 10 times.

Now for the confession, until I read this thread I hadn't even realised kings die at 56, does that make me stupid?

Well since I hadn't even noticed I can honestly say it hasn't effected my enjoyment at all.

[Forward Observer]

Quote[/b] (SideshowBob @ June 14 2003,03:25)]Well I haven't been keeping up with the total war forums recently. I've got VI and i've played it through to the end at least 10 times.

Now for the confession, until I read this thread I hadn't even realised kings die at 56, does that make me stupid?

Well since I hadn't even noticed I can honestly say it hasn't effected my enjoyment at all.
No, Sideshowbob, you are not stupid. Most of the other "chicken Little's" that are crying that the sky is falling in this thread didn't notice it either for a least two weeks after the game came out.

Many would have never noticed it until one or two players eventually found it, but now that they know about it, it is the absolute end of their gaming world.

With literally thousands of players not finding the "bug" for several weeks after release, common sense would seem to point out the obvious fact that something like this could easily escape a much smaller group of play testers.

Also like you, I am still enjoying VI for its own campaign, but I am playing the main campaign on a non VI install of the game.

I do hope these few problems are fixed so the game will come closer to perfection, but the main reason is so I don't have to listen to all of this wussy whining and sophomoric declarations of intent.

BTW, I hereby declare that I will never buy another game, period--- until all of my present crappy games are patched into perfect examples of the developer's art.
(yeah, right&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

Cheers

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Forward Observer @ June 14 2003,10:55)]I do hope these few problems are fixed so the game will come closer to perfection, but the main reason is so I don't have to listen to all of this wussy whining and sophomoric declarations of intent.
You might call it whining but if I buy a product that announces new features and these features turn out to be screwed up (1. introduction of aging and dying generals which led to the kings dying at 56; 2. introduction, and proud announcement, of the save feature before battles - a feature that randomly srews up savegames thus making it completely worthless), I believe it is my right as a customer to demand that these issues get fixed and if they do not get fixed to ultimately not buy anymore from the company that sells screwed products.

If I buy a TV and it turns out that, although it is generally working very good, sometimes the screen turns black for 2 seconds and the programmed stations shift from time to time, I would sure want it fixed and if that does not happen I would certainly not buy a TV from that company again.
I do not quite see why this should be different for computer games

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Papewaio @ June 13 2003,23:57)]
Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ June 12 2003,22:00)]I play a game - my kings die when they die, I have had 3 unprovoked crashes/lock-ups, but the game is still good - and it's still a game.

Anyone who says they aren't going to buy game "X" until game "y" is "fixed" is a mug IMO - you guys should all still be playing pac man, 'cos there's no such thing as a properly patched game
I think you are a bigger mug for putting up with shoddy support.
pape

do the bugs ruin the game?

no

therefor we can conclude MTW's virtues r greater than its Vices

thus not buying rome means u loose out on even more enjoyment cos u cant put up with a pidly wee bug that many didnt even notice as bad before ppl started complaining about it.

If u dont buy RTW cos ur unhappy with VI ur a mug

its like saying Oh i wont watch the sequal to a movie unless everything in the original meets all my demands. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Forward Observer]

Ser Clegane,

I don't dispute a gamer's right to bitch and moan, nor their right complain to both the developer and the publisher. Hell, I'd have to stop reading gaming forum posts, all together, if I did. It's just that some of the "drama queen" posts to a thread like this get a bit juvenile after a while, and are not particularly constructive to getting the problem fixed.

While threats may eventually get action, in the short term
the human beings that have to carry those actions out do not respond well to such methods. I know that I don't and neither do the people at the corporation I work for, nor those I deal with. I bet most of you reading this don't either.

Oh yeah, just be thankful you are not dealing with the US post office or the DMV.

The game has only been out barely 5 weeks, and the problem has been know about maybe 3 weeks at most. Give them a little time to patch all the problems they can, not just the one or two that have cropped up. If no patch is forthcoming in a few more weeks, then lead an angry mob bearing torches up to Activision corpoprate offices.

I'll be busy playing this or some other game, until Rome hits the shelves.


I've also heard that lame argument comparing the purchase of a car or a TV set, or any piece of hardware to a piece of software so many times that it is almost laughable. The two are just not the same and you know that, or at least you should know that if you have a computer using just about any version of Windoze. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Doggone it ,I can't even believe I'm even posting to this thread making it even longer.

Will somebody make this a minus post which will delete or negate at least one of the more overblown, over-dramatized complaints. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I hereby state that I will never ever read or post to this thread again until somebody in charge answers ever whine and moan that was ever left unanswered about any Total War game.

There now, I hope that satisfies everybody--I know I feel better.

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Forward Observer @ June 14 2003,14:34)]The two are just not the same and you know that, or at least you should know that if you have a computer using just about any version of Windoze. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I agree, you certainly are correct in this one, to my eternal dismay. Please do not rob me of the illusion that bitching about things like this might eventually have some impact http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[solypsist]

as if EA had anything to do with this:

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=8179 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=6;t=8179)

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Crash @ June 13 2003,17:48)]Unfortunately I only read the posting about the age 56 bug the day that I bought VI, after I came home with it. I have not installed it yet because I know that I will always have this issue in the back of my mind while I'm playing it.

But I will probably still buy RTW hoping the patches will be included in the new game. Hopefully, I won't find out the bugs are still there the day after I buy it...
Do yourself a favor and install it. It is a great addition to a great game that suffers from a few minor bugs.

I mean, come on, you bought the silly thing Don't let people here scare you into not playing it.


Forward Observer, I know you won't read this, so I hope you are somewhat telepathic- just wanted to say I agree completely with you.

Now pardon me, gentlemen, I'm off to enjoy playing my horrendously bugged game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Demon of Light]

Ok... lets get a comparison going. If all those who have posted here represent a minority of popular opinion, then we shall see. A new thread will be started with the opposite statement. If Forward Observer and Foreign Devil truly believe that the principle we strive to uphold here is truly without merit, then they should find legions of reasonable people posting in the thread I'm going to make. Bear in mind that the measure for what is reasonable is the same one used for sanity; majority rules.

[Demon of Light]

If you feel that the topic is accurate, post here.

[Papewaio]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 14 2003,13:54)]If u dont buy RTW cos ur unhappy with VI ur a mug

its like saying Oh i wont watch the sequal to a movie unless everything in the original meets all my demands. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
KY-jelly

I said that I wasn't buying VI until it was patched as I did with MTW. I also said that I would wait to see how good was RTW and see if it needed patching... I did the same with MTW and waited at least 6 months until I saw a good product that I could chuck my time at... was still playing STW:MI and numerous other games.

KY how many sequels surpass the original? How many remakes do the same in movies? If I watched a movie that was crap then I would say to my mates avoid it. I would also then wait for some good reviews to see the sequel (Stargate movie vs TV series). Would you be impressed if you see the sequel to a movie to see that it was botched because the editing job was rushed? Where you in a rush to watch a remake of Hudson Hawk?

What I am saying is that I have the patience and attitude to wait. That and to busy a life to put up with crap.

--------------
Even MS patches there products, you have to be pretty low on the food chain to give worse customer support...

[Sir Robin]

What is that I hear?...

Could it be?...

Yep http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Though that must have been one huge can opener to open that massive can of worms.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[andrewt]

Blizzard continues to test its games even after the game has already gone gold. Diablo2 and its expansion and Warcraft3 all had patches awaiting them the day they came out. The expansion for War3 will have one, also. Not all bugs are found before the game is released and it's good customer support to continue testing and releasing patches after the game has gone gold and is in distribution already. I still remember patch 1.03 in Warcraft3. It contained a lot of bug fixes that many people in the official forums didn't even know existed. It says something when a game company fixes a possible crash when the system date is changed to 2038.

Starcraft had a new patch this year and Warcraft2 had one either this year or the last. Warcraft2 was released in 1995 (rereleased, I think in 1998 with bnet support) and still got a new patch. Vivendi, which is a much bigger company than Activision, generally leaves Blizzard alone to do their own thing.

Another good company is Black Isle, a division of Interplay. When people complained that the expansion (Heart of Winter) to Icewind Dale was too short, they released another, smaller expansion FREE over the internet.

Diablo2 disappeared off the top 10 charts for almost a year now since it's kinda old already. It made it back for the entire month of April, maybe because 1.10 is coming out soon. I can't wait for that patch since they are going to rebalance a lot of skills, items and monster and fix a lot of bugs. Banning those 112,000 cheaters also was a nice move.

[Leet Eriksson]

I'm buying rome total war just for the throne room http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

im buying it cos if i dont ill beat myself.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 15 2003,11:42)]im buying it cos if i dont ill beat myself.
I know how you feel... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Maniac]

I noticed some consider, us, the supporters of this idea as morons. I certainly believe we aren't, at least most of us. It's perfectly clear that making a flawless software product is near to impossible and we don't ask it to be made flawless but such obvious bugs can't be left unfixed and it certainly isn't that hard to fix them. They should be ashamed such bugs even passed through Q&A.

Some say only several weeks have passed since VI's release? Give it more time? But so far, from all the statements CA and Activision have made it's almost obvious none's working on a fix. I really don't see a reason they'd be hiding it from us if they were working on it.

We shouldn't ignore this lack of customer support 'cause it'll only grow bigger.

I'll be missing out not buying RTW? Why would I? There are so many great games coming out in the following months and I'll more gladly invest in one which doesn't ruin an hour or more of gaming with a ****ed up save. Of course other games might have such bugs at first, but most companies give much better customer support and some have already earned my (and I believe many others' too) trust. While Activision so far is making its way to my list of publishers who's games I try to avoid.

[End of Dramatic Drivel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif ]

[solypsist]

I'll be keeping a close eye on this one (and so will Shiro, I assume).

Let's continue to keep it friendly.

[Lehesu]

WHOO HOO FOR CA WOO HOO FOR ROME WOO HOO FOR MEDIEVAL

[Forward Observer]

I may even buy two copies. One to play and one to tape over my heart. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Go, Creative Assembly, you guys are still tops with me.

Cheers

[wordsmith]

I dont demand that all my games have patches, I dont think its the responsability of these companies to make patches for every little thing that isnt right. BUT, I do demand that there is a comprehensive testing of ANY product I buy and that the product is reliable and meets the market "quality standard" -as good as the other stuff out their if not better.

MTW and VI DID not meet this standard. Many of the bugs are obvious at even the most basic level of beta testing, expecially the yr 56 bug. There is NO WAY they missed that, but they chose not to fix it. I seriously question their beta testing methods, if they even bother to beta test at all that is.

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Papewaio @ June 15 2003,05:20)]KY how many sequels surpass the original?
1. aliens 2
2. die hard 2
3. indiana jones 2
4. Xmen 2
5. LOTR 2
6. terminator 2
7. jaws 2
8. matrix 2
9. preadator 2
10. national lampoonms series of films

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

i might buy 2 so that when the first cd gets woren out i dont have to wait till the weekend to get it again.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Brother Derfel]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 15 2003,16:32)]5. LOTR 2
GAH

Bad yellow, it is NOT LOTR2


Tolkien must be turning in his grave..........

[Papewaio]

Nor is it Aliens 2 it was Alien then Aliens then Alien cubed.

Lets add in Rocky 4, Rambo 3, Phantom Menace with Jar Jar, Jaws 3, Young Indiana Jones.

[MiniKiller]

I'm not, think of it this way, they let a few things slide, noone complains and nothing gets done. Rome comes out, great eye candy but everytime units begin to fit u get booted...now what? complain? they dont care because u bought it anyway regardless of errors.

[Lehesu]

This thread is for supporters of Rome. Please post any other anti-Rome sentiment in the designated thread.

[Hakonarson]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 15 2003,05:42)]im buying it cos if i dont ill beat myself.
I fully intend to keep beating myself anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

...oh and I'll buy RTW too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm buying it because I believe it to be a fantastic game, I like CA, and strangely, My copy of VI hasn't matured any bugs I can see. Plus I would feel ill without it for more than a few days.(Good idea, by the way, Demon)

[Demon of Light]

Lord in Heaven As if I don't have to scroll down enough stickies to get to the rest of the Main Hall...

[Lare]

What's the point in this thread? What signal are you sending? The guys at the other thread feel, that when they buy a game, they want it to be a working one, and that the delevopers should pay attention to this even after the release.

The message you are sending here is: "We don't care if the games are working or not We'll buy them anyway You don't need to care about us or how the game works once we've given you the money"

In other words, what the're saying is, that they want better products. What you're saying here is, that you don't care about the quality; you'll buy them anyway What you're doing here doesn't seem to make any sense.

[Swoosh So]

well said lare

[Rocket_Boy]

Predator 2, matrix 2, jaws 2.... please tell me you jest. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif Having said that, I am a big fan of Rocky 4, which I'm pretty sure was put in by papewaio as a piss take. I guess this is all a bit o.t. mind

[Lehesu]

I initially supported your position Lare. But that was before the bitc****. People have to realize that it is a company, and patches take money. If it isn't economically expedient, it won't be done. I do not think that Total War has as much of a fan base as big companies such as Blizzard, so judging economic expedience gets even more dire. Also, I think that we should support CA, as the Org is one of the principle fan bases. I don't say I like Activision; quite frankly, they suck, but I don't see anything in griping about the justice of it all. I believe CA tries it's best at it's games, and that we should support them rather than discourage them.

[Brother Derfel]

I agree with lare.


The only thing this thread is acheiving is to undermine the atempts of the others who want their game improved and certain standards to be kept to.

It looks like you are going to get RTW anyway, so this thread is not constructive in anyway as far as i can see.

[Elwe]

I agree with this thread. I'll buy it anyway as, even though there are some minor bugs in VI, it by now means makes the game anywhere near the unplayable state that the vocal minority imply. This is not to say I wouldn't like a patch for VI, but all it would do is make a great game better.

MTW:VI is awesome, and I can't wait for RTW.

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 16 2003,16:05)]I initially supported your position Lare. But that was before the bitc****. People have to realize that it is a company, and patches take money.
Yeah, imagine the incentive it would take to get those lazy technicians to quit their Lan games of quake and get working on one entire afternoon. That's a real braincracker...

Making patches to correct bugs is a company obligation to keep its good name amongst the clients.

When Rome comes out crawling with bugs you will want it fixed. Then some wise one will start a thread "the hell with RTW, give us napoleon total war now". And this will go on and on.

What you are saying here is "whatever you will release, no matter what, i will buy it, and more, i will buy the next too...". Sorry, can't agree with that. I even consider this kind of position rather selfish since people may want not to buy Rome. Does this mean they are not entitled to a less buggy game?

It's these kind of things that makes companies release half baked games (some obviously without testing at all).

[DthB4Dishonor]

Hail everyone,

I find the feeling of indifference for VI disturbing. To say that a vocal minority are "Bit***" shows a complete lack of disrespect for many long time members of .org and TW community.


Quote[/b] ]I initially supported your position Lare. But that was before the bitc****. People have to realize that it is a company, and patches take money. If it isn't economically expedient, it won't be done. I do not think that Total War has as much of a fan base as big companies such as Blizzard, so judging economic expedience gets even more dire. Also, I think that we should support CA, as the Org is one of the principle fan bases.

Lehesu with all do respect your view on this is totally incorrect. It is the responsibilty of the game developer to deliver on its advertised promises. CA advertised a mp aspect of there game. Currently mp is so obviously bugged that 60-75% of online time is spent trying to get a game completed. Imagine if sp campaign crashed at this average without any of your progress saved.

Remember in all practicallity we payed $30 dollars plus tax for a patch. As that what VI essentially is. I dont play viking era and the extra regular era factions were offered by .org mod's which Mizu's and others thoughtfully put together. To say that we want this already payed for patch to work correctly is not bitching as you so eloquently put it. It is merely asking for completion of services already paid for.

Also to say that if we dont want to buy RTW to not post here is facist ideology. If that is the case why dont you put a poll and not allow posting.

Just put will you buy RTW:

-Yes
- or Yes I will buy 2 RTW's

In conclusion if I do buy RTW at all it will be to continue the on going relationship and friendship I have developed over the past 1yr and a half.

RTKPaul

[MiniKiller]

I'm not bashing Rome, it infact looks fantastic and I will most likely give in and buy Rome but my point is if one little thing slides then a bigger one will and so on, thats all.

[Lehesu]

Please, please, please Don't get so ruffled My post was not intended to bash/insult/flame any other members, of which many have been here much longer than I.

DeathB4Dishonor: I am sorry that you view VI as nothing more than a patch. However, I do think that VI adds a considerable amount of features and I am sorry that you do not see any value in it. However, that is your opinion, you are entitled to it, as I am of my opinion that the game is a success.

I have also heard that it is Activision that pulls the strings for patching. Regardless of CA's intent, I do believe that Activision has the final word on the matter, and I doubt that they see the game in the same affectionate way that CA does. As far as I know, Activision does not peruse this site, nor have deigned to grace us with their opinion.
This thread is not, AFAIK, a movement to discourage or discredit the other ongoing thread. In fact, I think that to claim that this thread, and thereby our opinions, pointless smacks of fascism as much or more than my hastily written reply. Our opinions count as much as anyone elses, I would think, and I am sure that the two opinions are not as diametrically opposed as some of you seem to think. We all love the Total War series and wish the best for its continued existence; we just have different views on how to bring about it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Lare @ June 16 2003,12:27)]The message you are sending here is: "We don't care if the games are working or not We'll buy them anyway You don't need to care about us or how the game works once we've given you the money"
no we are sending a message of support to CA.

If rome is as bugged as u have just exagerated there then we wont need to complain cos it wont sell 1 freakin copy.

i fully understand why Vi aint gettin patched cos

A. none of the bugs are terminal
B. would they sell enough copies to justify the expense of patching it?
C. rome's only 6 month away so the addon will be forgotten anyways.

basicly what lehesu said

i loved VI, i wouldnt mind a patch for it but since im not even playing MTW anymore im not gonna sit there and demand a patch.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 16 2003,18:12)]A. none of the bugs are terminal
They aren't? Funny... in my current game the french, the sicilians, the english, the HRE (these two last have just popped out again with zero GA points of course) seem to disagree. Im going to have such a challenge geting all the european mainland from a bunch of disordered rebels...

So you don't play VI anymore, i do and want to keep playing it for some time now. I don't have infinite funds to waste on games as apparently you have. I like my games complete and as bug free as possible. Last year there was a patch for warcraft 2. WARCRAFT2... released 199?... Is it that costly to make a patch? Come on. If tomorrow they said "we are to busy playing Quake3 on our lan to worry about a patch right now..." i could understand. But too costly... Come on. VI was promissed to be like a patch... With a few adittions and i paid for it... its not im asking anything i as a paying customer haven't payed for. Somehow i missed the letters on the package that stated "Sorry but this has some new bugs including one that will screw up all your GA games because factions will die out and return with zero points, the mp will not work properly, and a few other less anoying quirks".

Believe me that if i had seen this i would not buy it. I was tricked just like everybody else. I like to have what i paid for...

What is a terminal bug dude? One that keeps you from finishing the game? Well a script that takes you from the beguining of the game to the ending screen ain't considered to be a game to me...

If by Terminal Bug you mean bugs that keeps you from enjoying the game, then VI has one (the 56 yrs old thingy). It is a killjoy.

[Foreign Devil]

I like to declare things, so I'll go ahead and declare that chances are better than exellent that I'm going to buy R:TW.

If I learn that Rome is massivly and unplayably unstable, then of course I won't get it... even though I'd still go to the store a lot just to look at the box... Based on the evidence so far, however, there is absolutly no reason to believe that things will be that bad.


I am most certainly not saying it is ok to accept shoddy merchandise. I don't deny that VI suffers from bugs that are, at times, very annoying. I also do not deny that it would be nice if Activision were to patch.

I'm just saying that the bugs are not crippling and they do not detract from my enjoyment of the game. I enjoy Medieval and VI, THEREFORE I will most likely enjoy R:TW.

For those of you who insist on not buying, thats super, it really is... just.. please... its my money and if i want to burn it or flush it down the toilet or buy Rome: Total War with it, then thats what I'm going to do.

Bleh... this topic always leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

[Papewaio]

All my posts are piss takes, specially when pissing against the wind.

Really do any of the Rocky sequels exceed the first?

Anyhow I will be waiting to see the opinions of the R:TW players about the game before purchasing it. I will also be having a dire chuckle when they get a single patch because *:TW is being produced.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 16 2003,04:48)]This thread is for supporters of Rome. Please post any other anti-Rome sentiment in the designated thread.
Its not about being pro or anti Rome, its about whether or not you're prepared to buy games that are only 90% finished and then don't receive proper patch support.

I'm sure RTW will be a great game - but going by past experience it will probly be released a month too early as well...which will please a lot of people in this thread who would rather have a rushed game earlier than a polished game later http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Lare]

I started to play computer games in the 80's. Back then, when games were released, they had been tested thoroughly, and they were relatively bug-free. Life was easy, the sun was always shining, blaa, blaa.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Then came the internet and the competition got tougher in the gaming industry. The companies then started to release products that were incomplete. We, of course, didn't like the idea to have to buy games that were sometimes unplayable. You sometimes had to, and still do, wait several weeks or months before the game was in a condition that it could hit the shelves.

Now we're used to patching, and it's ok with me too. What's not ok is when companies are trying to take it to the next level, which is not patching at all, and leaving the products unfinished You may think that this isn't going to happen, but it is, if we are going to allow it. The companies are doing what is required for them to get the money from us, and nothing more.

If we buy new games from Activision, even if the old games are unfinished, they will definitely realize this and then there will be less and less patches. The other companies will see this too, and do the same to save some extra dollars.


Quote[/b] ]
Knight_Yellow wrote:

i fully understand why Vi aint gettin patched cos

C. rome's only 6 month away so the addon will be forgotten anyways.

I don't see the connection. Of course you're supposed to be able to play VI even after RTW is released. What you're saying is like f.ex. Toyota would give a statement: "We here in Toyota don't feel we should fix the deficiencies in our current line of Corollas, since we have a new line of Corollas coming in 6 months". Doesn't make sense.


Quote[/b] ]
Foreign Devil wrote:

For those of you who insist on not buying, thats super, it really is... just.. please... its my money and if i want to burn it or flush it down the toilet or buy Rome: Total War with it, then thats what I'm going to do.

Fine. I just don't see the point in shouting out loud: "you don't have to patch the games, we'll buy them anyway". If that's not the intention in this thread, and I'm sure it isn't, that's the signal you're sending to Activision anyway. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the game, but this thread is pointless.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Lare @ June 17 2003,01:52)]Fine. I just don't see the point in shouting out loud: "you don't have to patch the games, we'll buy them anyway". If that's not the intention in this thread, and I'm sure it isn't, that's the signal you're sending to Activision anyway. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the game, but this thread is pointless.
Cars are not software. Beware of analogy, not often does it cooperate fully.

I'm not saying they don't have to patch, I'm saying patching has no bearing on my decision to purchase Rome.\

You did not specifically say that VI is unfinshed, but that is what you implied. Annoying bugs don't make a game unfished, they make it unpolished. I don't mean to nitpick, there is a significant difference. It'll be a shame if VI isn't patched, its a shame that it needs to be patched in the first place. I just find it a tad ridiculous to base buying R:TW on a few bugs.

Suribachi- Its not that I'd rather have it a month earlier, quite the contrary. I'd just rather have a few mostly minor bugs than no game at all.

PS. if I hadn't just moved out on my own, making money somewhat important, I probably would go flush a few dollars just for fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Forward Observer @ June 15 2003,11:02)]I may even buy two copies. One to play and one to tape over my heart. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Go, Creative Assembly, you guys are still tops with me.

Cheers
u need two cause if the cd-key of the first doesnt work ( as usual ) its easier to buy another copy than wait for an answer by CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Divine Wind]

I will be buying R:TW. However, which ever distributor i purchase the game from, i will make sure that they have a good return warrenty so if the game does not match my standards (incredibley high standards&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif then i shall return the game with a full refund. I suggest you all do the same too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Swoosh So]

It dismays me to read that people will buy rtw no matter what, No wonder the games companies get away with releasing half finished games all the time if that is the attitude of their customers, btw theyre releasing a game called big battle total war its a box and 1 dice you gonna buy that too?

[Knight_Yellow]

swoosh if rome is fooked then ill be the first person to complain but im not gonna base judgements on a gam thats out just cos a addon hasnt gotten a patch.


Portugeese rebel wrote

"So you don't play VI anymore, i do and want to keep playing it for some time now. I don't have infinite funds to waste on games as apparently you have"

can i ask what the hell that has to do with anything?

my games of VI when i played it where bug free, i didnt notice a 56 year bug and my save games didnt crash my computer.

[rasoforos]

Swoosh So , i agree with you. Practically 90% of the games released today are either low-quality-highly-advertised-giveusyourmoney crap like the sims or Tomb raider , matrix etc or they are unfinished. If the gamers keep on buying games like that then the game scene will go from bad to worse. The complains about the VI bugs and the decision of the fact that i practically need to pay for a patch made me decide NOT to buy VI , not at its current price at least. If companies dont stop feeding us with unfinished games and crappy support then the only ones who will benefit are the pirates since fewer and fewer will want to pay full money for 'damaged' goods.

[Rocket_Boy]

Lets be honest here, there probably won't be a single contributer to this thread who won't buy RTW. Lets face it we all give enough of a s**t about the Total War series to spend time on these boards debating the current and future games. Now myself and others are unlikely to rush straight out to buy it unless VI is patched, until we are sure that the game is not spoiled by bugs which may not be fixed. The whole thing has certainly left me a little jaded.

Its debateable how big of a bug the 56yo one is. Since discovering it and losing a game due to it, I no longer have any desire to play MTW, the game that I've practically been having a love affair with this past year, so yes it is a big issue for me and I'm sure for many other players.

Now I have every confidence that CA will try to ensure that RTW will be bug free, but in the event that it happens to contain a major bug or two, I'd like to have the peace of mind that it will only be a temporary hiccup, soon to be sorted.

[Old Bald Guy]

One can surmise there will be no patch. We know they know there are problems, how we feel about the problems, and we're gullible enough to buy the next product regardless of the level of support. Wouldn't someone tell us they are working on patching VI if they were? If they gave a damn, wouldn't there be an announcement of some kind to soothe ruffled feathers? Aren't they banking on the fact so many bought VI and so many are saying they can't wait for Rome no matter what they do to fix their previous games?

If there is a patch, I'll be shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. I love this game, but I do NOT love CA for taking the money and running. Shame on them. We believed the problems in MTW would be fixed. They SAID it would be fixed. They lied. Now, they owe us what they promised. Don't expect it.

Where are all the people who promised us VI would fix the problems with MTW? We're waiting.

[A.Saturnus]

Right, most games today are of low quality and/or are just clones of successful ones. That`s why I appreciate the work of CA to make a high quality game in a genre they invented themselves. I haven`t buyed Shogun back when it was new. I played the demo but, don`t know what happened, somehow I forgot about. I know today that was a big mistake. When I bought MTW, I though, "well give it a try" and that game has turned out to be one of the best games I ever played (although there have been bugs - like CTD - that really pissed me off). Then came VI and I think it`s a hell of a add-on, adding many new features and gave me weeks of fun. None of the bugs has really reduced my fun (unlike one I experienced in Diablo II lately when I started to play that again). I`m pretty sure that I`ll enjoy Rome and that it`ll be worth it`s price - just as every product of CA so far. If that`s not the case, then I`ll complain and think twice before I`ll buy another product of CA.
I think the purpose of this thread is to show CA that there are (still) people who are very pleased with their product.

I`ll buy Rome:Total War regardless of a patch for VI.

[Knight_Yellow]

its activision that decides the patches not CA old bad guy


and yes i meant all those filme were better than the original

especialy

http://www.planetavp.com/amr/multi/pics/alien2/alien1.jpg
http://www.planetavp.com/amr/multi/pics/alien2/hicks01.jpg

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Rocket_Boy @ June 17 2003,05:31)]Lets be honest here, there probably won't be a single contributer to this thread who won't buy RTW.
Wanna bet on that?

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 17 2003,11:08)]Portugeese rebel wrote

"So you don't play VI anymore, i do and want to keep playing it for some time now. I don't have infinite funds to waste on games as apparently you have"

can i ask what the hell that has to do with anything?
i notice u didnt bother answering that

[Papewaio]

Simple KY, the more limited ones resources the more careful you will use those resources.

I'm sure if you havn't noticed it with pay packets in real life you must have noticed in MTW how you will be more careful buying units and buildings when your budget gets tight.

So in this case a lot of us are thinking: Well should I pay full price for the unpatched versions or wait a few months and get a half price patched version?

Also there is a matter of precedence. It was set with the very few patchs for STW series, which CA blamed (rightly or wrongly) on the publisher. They changed to a publisher that would support the concept better. However the concept they are supporting is obviously not customer care.

-----

Cars and software is a good analogy as long as we are looking at Brand name and goodwill. Brand name is where something is recognised by its name. I'm sure plenty of people think of a Ferrari as a magnificent car despite not ever driving one, brand name. Goodwill, is where a customer has formed an attachment to a brand. Some people will only buy nike shoes, drink coke, and use Macs because they are attached to those brands.

Factor in that it is easier (cheaper) to sell to established customers then creating a new customers. Word of mouth of a brand can do immearsureable good or harm to a products chances of doing well in the market place.

Not patching is damaging the value of the goodwill of the TW brand. By word of mouth people will hear how great a game it is but they will also learn that patchs are few and far between. It is also slowly erroding the customer base.

People keep saying that only the big developers can afford to patch properly. Well maybe it is also the only way to become one of the big developers is by going the full distance.

----

Still waiting for the ultimate patch called multiplayer campaigns (even if it was auto-calc battles)...

[Knight_Yellow]

im not ritch
hell no quite the opposite
im a single child with 1 parent who works part time.
so definatley not ritch.

[Lehesu]

Please, folks, let's not get people's income involved in this. The whole point of the topic is to discuss the value of Total War games, and I doubt that personal information, such as income, has any real considerations in determining this.

[solypsist]

this is not a spam thread.

you have all been collectively warned.

[solypsist]

if you're going to buy it, please say so.

this thread is not here for the purpose of arguing against those who want RTW, or to spam. read the first post of this thread, and then try to follow along.

[Lancer6969]

ROME TOTAL WAR RULES CA RULES

[Monk]

After reading both topics i still have to say that i must...MUST buy Rome: total war, i've spent far to long in the Coliseum, this is what it does to you.

[bhutavarna]

how the hell did we get from not buying RTW to talking about Rocky on this thread.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

RTW is getting far to much attention from a great many media outlets for Activision to pull a fast one and force CA to release a shoddy product this time around. Their reputation and future marketability are on the line. There most definitely will be bugs in the game. No piece of software is ever perfect. It is impossible for CA with a few hundred beta testers to ever give the game as extensive a workout as the several hundred thousand people who will eventually purchase it.

Those of you who have an issue with products already on the market should not have to be reminded that CA is owned by Activision who makes all of the decisions regarding when a product is released and whether or not there will be a patch. Although I am fairly certain you are wasting your time, you should direct any "patch" requests or demands for service to Activision not CA. In other words, quit pissing off the fine folks who provide us with irreplaceable entertainment and direct your vitriol towards the money-grubbing dimwits who hand out the marching orders. Duh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif


Just in case you weren't sure:

I WILL BUY RTW REGARDLESS OF PATCHES FOR PREVIOUS PRODUCTS

That is all.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 17 2003,07:39)]im not ritch
hell no quite the opposite
im a single child with 1 parent who works part time.
so definatley not ritch.
So maybe you should be more concerned about the way things are sold to you...

You want to waste money on false promisses? I don't. VI has serious bugs, not to mention the fact that the modder community was waiting for the possibility to add new factions (wich still is a no can do situation).

I'm sorry if i got the wrong impression on you but that was the idea i got from your posts.

[RTKLamorak]

i wont argue many of the points in this thread.. but the emphasis of the word "minor" bugs... and bugs that arent "terminal" is a gross understatment to generalise the expansion. Mabye sp has only some "minor" text bugs.. GA glitches and what have you but that doesnt stop you enjoying/playing the game. When your an avid multi-player however the bugs are as bad as they come in the industry, to the point that i rarely even go thru the bother now (use to play Totalwar about 5-8 hours a day).
Firstly there are 2 seperate servers.. so not all people playing VI are in same place (have any devs made such a blind mistake as that b4??.. surely one simple test would have identified it.. apparently not). so... games take longer to get going for one thing. to add to this the player list simply NEVER updates, so.. cant private message buddies e.t.c without relogging. games also take ridiculous amounts of time to see.. and with no refresh option it is often the case that someone cannot see a particular game. The amount of drops/crashes once a game has FINALLY been set up is around 50-70%... would you really put up with your campain crashing half.. to 2/3 of the time as Dthb4 already asked? when people quit a multi player game (which is a high number if you are new to online games), the game goes "out of sync".. dropping everyone from the game and it is ruined.. furthermore causing an even higher percentage of failed games. As standard most "noobs" would rather quit than stay till the end of agme.. which should be aloud but amazingly enough is something the devs didnt check for.. even if people quitting is the third most common outcome after people winning, and losing. Also.. after ALL drops/crashes i get log on errors when trying to log back on.. and am forced to restart the game. I will restrain from listing the rest of these MAJOR, TERMINAL bugs.. but merely ask that you try to refrain from doing something so counter productive to our argument that i honestly cant figure your reasoning for posting. For many online players we do not play single player at all.. on the rear of the box it states "epic multyiplayer battles".. thats what we paid for so thats what we expect to have. With the current state of the server/coding this just isnt a reality.. this game is so bugged that it has driven me from my once most liked game series ever. so.. please please dont hamper our chances for some kind of patch by posting such things.. just because your satisied with what you paid for the game for (single player), not everyone is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

I did not answer the first time because i did not noticed you had quoted me. When it appears in bold its easier to answer.

[Portuguese Rebel]

I wonder how many "i will buy rome no matter what" guys have a legit copy of VI (i.e. a patchable one). Since illegal copies are hard to patch...

This makes me wonder...

[Lehesu]

Rebel, that is as blantant an insult as any. I am not a software pirate and it offends me that you might automatically assume so, just because I look forwar to Rome. Please, refrain from posting insults without any support. There is no way you can prove your statement, so stating it in the first place should not have occured.

However, in the event that the post was supposed to be humorous, I apologize, but ask that you make your jokes a bit more clear for the audience.

[Knight_Yellow]

rebel did u even read what soly said?

and ilegal VI copies? r u stoned

i can prove i have a legit copy anytime.

Rome will be god like, and im sure as sure gonna be part of the community that buys it.

[RisingSun]

I WILL NOT BUY R:TW UNLESS VI IS PATCHED, OR R:TW IS GVEN THE ALL-CLEAR BY OTHERS. The lack of concern for the customer is shocking and disturbing. All you fools who are naive and gullible enough to keep buying products from a company which alienates its customers to this extent are not right in the head. et this through said head.

IT IS NOT THE BUG ITSELF, BUT THE FACT THAT IT GOT THROUGH IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE WILL TO FIX IT

Some people just don't get the concept. If we allow them to push us around,as consumers, and let them know we will still buy their produts regardless, then it will not stop. This is very hard for me to do, since I desperately need RTW, and was going to pre-order it, bt if it is going to be bug-ridden, and not get good support, then I will spend my money on Starcraft: Ghost instead. Speaking of Starcraft, look at it there have been a WHOPPING 12 patches for it I only wish we could get that kind of support fr MTW/VI...

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ June 18 2003,17:28)]i can prove i have a legit copy anytime.

Rome will be god like, and im sure as sure gonna be part of the community that buys it.
my thoughts exactly

[RisingSun]

It really is sad when people allow themselve to be subject to shotty product support and not say anyting about it... sad...

[Portuguese Rebel]

I did not accused a single person, just wondered... Don't get so worked up boys, its bad for your health...

It is however a great motive for not caring about a patch...

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] ]Speaking of Starcraft, look at it there have been a WHOPPING 12 patches for it I only wish we could get that kind of support fr MTW/VI...

One good patch would be enough for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Lehesu]

Arguments aside, just let our opinions stand as they are. I respect your opinion, but some of the "prosyletizing" is getting annoying. We are not blindly walking into crap games, buying whatever CA makes. I too agree that the current state of games is not as good as it could be. However, it is stupid because we are arguing over a future subject; something that hasn't happened yet. If Rome comes out with great support/multi/ etc., with few bugs and enough patches to fix those that do occur, this whole argument in the Org will be for naught. Tears shed and flames spread over a game is stupid. Over a game that has yet to come out....that is REALLY stupid.

[Demon of Light]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 18 2003,16:24)]I too agree that the current state of games is not as good as it could be.
How do you see the current state of games and how would you improve it?

[ErikJansen]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 15 2003,22:48)]This thread is for supporters of Rome. Please post any other anti-Rome sentiment in the designated thread.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

ROFL

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

GL with your Tech-support

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Edit:

After having read through this thread I'm left with a feeling of disgust at the ignorance on display here. I won't go into details myself, because RTK_Lamorak described the situation for the MP part of this community thoroughly. Read it again (or at all for some of u it seems..)

Gah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

Thats it from me, I just couldn't leave this one alone.

[RTKLamorak]

lol Vandal.... as per usual the mp aspect was swiftly brushed aside. The post i spent mabye 15 mins on wasnt even read it seems.. all the flaming that started simply grew away from the point of the post (deja vu of every VI patch thread?&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. about the "dont argue over something in the future" (or along those lines) i was arguing about VI.. in relation to Rome. The totally bugged VI, and the "ill buy Rome whether you totally ignore VI or not" thread was what got me in here.

[RTKLamorak]

lol il post it again in fact as i seriously dont think it was glanced at http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif .. and as vandal said it quite nicely describes viewpoint of the online community.. who, by the way, are those that did the majority of the "bitching" that started this thread in the first place

i wont argue many of the points in this thread.. but the emphasis of the word "minor" bugs... and bugs that arent "terminal" is a gross understatment to generalise the expansion. Mabye sp has only some "minor" text bugs.. GA glitches and what have you but that doesnt stop you enjoying/playing the game. When your an avid multi-player however the bugs are as bad as they come in the industry, to the point that i rarely even go thru the bother now (use to play Totalwar about 5-8 hours a day).
Firstly there are 2 seperate servers.. so not all people playing VI are in same place (have any devs made such a blind mistake as that b4??.. surely one simple test would have identified it.. apparently not). so... games take longer to get going for one thing. to add to this the player list simply NEVER updates, so.. cant private message buddies e.t.c without relogging. games also take ridiculous amounts of time to see.. and with no refresh option it is often the case that someone cannot see a particular game. The amount of drops/crashes once a game has FINALLY been set up is around 50-70%... would you really put up with your campain crashing half.. to 2/3 of the time as Dthb4 already asked? when people quit a multi player game (which is a high number if you are new to online games), the game goes "out of sync".. dropping everyone from the game and it is ruined.. furthermore causing an even higher percentage of failed games. As standard most "noobs" would rather quit than stay till the end of a game..... which should be aloud but amazingly enough is something the devs didnt check for.. even if people quitting is the third most common outcome after people winning, and losing. Also.. after ALL drops/crashes i get log on errors when trying to log back on.. and am forced to restart the game. I will restrain from listing the rest of these MAJOR, TERMINAL bugs.. but merely ask that you try to refrain from doing something so counter productive to our argument that i honestly cant figure your reasoning for posting. For many online players we do not play single player at all.. on the rear of the box it states "epic multyiplayer battles".. thats what we paid for so thats what we expect to have. With the current state of the server/coding this just isnt a reality.. this game is so bugged that it has driven me from my once most liked game series ever. so.. please please dont hamper our chances for some kind of patch by posting such things.. just because your satisied with what you paid for the game for (single player), not everyone is

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (RTKLamorak @ June 18 2003,21:09)]just because your satisied with what you paid for the game for (single player), not everyone is
I am SP only and I am definitely not satisfied ... that the situation seems to be even worse im MP makes a patch even more necessary

[Longasc]

RisingSun, you are absolutely right.

I cannot agree more - the bugs are known, it should be out of question that someone at CA will look into this and fix them.

But we hear such sorry "Activision's decision" and "We are working on Rome:TW" excuses.

How can we take CA serious anymore? I think they stand behind their product, M:TW is great, and R:TW will probably be even better... so why should they not bother fixing it?

I cannot think that at least fixing the 56 years bug should be a major problem. The quicksave thing is probably a bit more tricky, but hell - I guess R:TW will have a similar Feature, and they can perhaps learn from the mistakes they did in VI...

[Brutal DLX]

Yep, the technical stuff in MP needs to get fixed, although the room thing may be more related to gamspy or activision.
But there are indeed minor quirks in the lobby that add up to a major nuisance to some, if not all. Scroll lock, greyed out names even if they are not in game, new people not appearing in list unless relogging, need to relog after game, but the worst thing is the drop if someone quits in game. Strangely, it doesn't happen all the time, and I haven't figured out when it does and when not.
Once the game has started, it ran smoothly for me in most cases, unless soemone is playing on a real inferior PC. Also we should always tell newcomers not to quit the game, at least for the time being.

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 19 2003,00:24)]Arguments aside, just let our opinions stand as they are. I respect your opinion, but some of the "prosyletizing" is getting annoying. We are not blindly walking into crap games, buying whatever CA makes. I too agree that the current state of games is not as good as it could be. However, it is stupid because we are arguing over a future subject; something that hasn't happened yet. If Rome comes out with great support/multi/ etc., with few bugs and enough patches to fix those that do occur, this whole argument in the Org will be for naught. Tears shed and flames spread over a game is stupid. Over a game that has yet to come out....that is REALLY stupid.
my goid im agreeing with lehesu twice in the same topic

somethings wrong somethings very very wrong http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Stormer]

Gezz if they dont wanna get it, then i know who will be missing out.

and it wont be me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Maelstrom]

I WILL buy RTW regardless of the delivery of a VI patch (which I have bought, but have yet to load), but like many people here, only after I am comfortable that RTW is relatively bug free.

Thankfully there are a number of people in the adjacent thread who are going to buy it regardless, so us more cautious types should be able to get a clear steer from them after a month or two.

I am one of those who suffered with endless CTDs (and worse) with 1.0, and had to wait until 1.1. before MTW was even playable. I am not anxious to repeat that experience.

In many ways some of the statements here about the threat to CA's brand (and I still think of it as a CA product, regardless of the publisher) represent an optimistic viewpoint. For me, the damage has been done. I bought MTW on brand and got my fingers burned. I bought VI purely for the in-turn save facility. I will want to be very sure that RTW is stable before I hand over my hard earned cash

The danger for CA is that if it is not up to scratch, I won't be hanging around for a patch. As we all do in time, I will move on to something else and probably not come back to these boards.

So if CA or Activision are listening, please, please, please don't release RTW until it is stable....

[Rocket_Boy]

Quote[/b] ]Gezz if they dont wanna get it, then i know who will be missing out.

and it wont be me

And if it comes out with bugs that Activision feels no need to fix because we're all going to buy Napoleonic(or whatever) Total War regardless, then we're all going to be missing out. Do you see?

[Knight_Yellow]

Excuse me but that arguement doesnt work

Vi has what 1 terminal bug and thats MP quiting

so i should sit here like a donkey and say "oh patch this addon witch wont be gettin played in 6 months anyway or i wont buy ur next game" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

and if some1 disagrees and says they are going to buy Rome they suddenly become incompetent sheep that would buy a game if it was the original pong.

this thread has shown me who the real chumps r and it aint the ppl who are going to buy rome anyway

If ur going to Buy rome the...

Good for u, i look forward to u being part of the community

if not then.....

ok go away u allready have a thread quit trying to flame this 1

[Ser Clegane]

Actually I do not quite understand why we start blaming each other here for whatever.

There are some people who do not think that the bugs in VI are serious enough to spoil their fun with it or even to not make them buy RTW. I think this is a fair point and cannot be argued with since this is a personal opinion since the fun they have with the TW products is purely subjective they cannot be wrong with their opinion

On the other hand there are some people (including myself) who think the current bugs in VI spoil their fun with it so much that it actually was not worth the money they spent on it and do not want reward a company for lacking support by buying another product from them (even if they might miss out some fun with this product). This again is a personal subjective opinion regarding fun with a game and therefore cannot be wrong.

So we should keep this less personal (I have a grudge against Activision or CA whoever is responsible for this but defintely not gainst players who are having fun with VI as it is or are looking forward ro buying RTW)

[Lehesu]

Jeez, this thread is starting to sound like a Middle East Peace meeting (drum solo) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Just wanted to keep some of that humor alive, in an altogether unhumorous setting.

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 19 2003,11:12)]Jeez, this thread is starting to sound like a Middle East Peace meeting (drum solo) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Just wanted to keep some of that humor alive, in an altogether unhumorous setting.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Yep, I guess we all live a pretty carefree life if we can spend time worrying about things like these http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Qilue]

I'd like to add my voice.

I too will not be buying RTW due to my experiences with save/load bugs in MTW v1. I've yet to buy VI and I don't intend to until a patch for it has been released.

Likewise, CA and Activision's (Creative Acquisition and Greedivision?) track record regarding game patches for MTW and STW means they have to either release a stable RTW or wait until they release a patch before they get my money.

EDIT - Ok, CA can't really be blamed for Activision's greed, but surely someone there is working on a patch. A good example is SFC1's unofficial 1.03 patch, which was done by one of the game's designer/programmers.

[The Gauch0]

I just read the RTW FAQ. (Sound of my jaw dropping through the floor.) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[The Gauch0]

I have to admit that if I hadn't been reading the forums, I probably wouldn't have thought much about the need for a patch. The king dying at 56 thing is really not such a big deal; I mean, he's going to die sometime. The only bug I consider really significant is the wrong reinforcements bug, and even that one is pretty minor, considering it'almost always my initial deployment of troops that determines the tide of battle.

As for CA's dedication, etc., you have to admit it's a pretty complex, well-crafted game that has already been patched several times. With a handful of new features in VI comes a smattering of new bugs, but really I have yet to be frustrated by a bug to the point that it hurts my enjoyment of the game. If it was crashing repeatedly or had really serious shortcomings in gameplay, that would be a different story. I've played some awful games--including some awful Activision games (ever play Civilization Call to Power?)--and MTW VI isn't even in the ballpark. Consider the criticism on this thread, and then consider the fact that most of these complaints are possible because CA has raised the bar so significantly for strategy games. I'm not saying that bugs should be left uncorrected once they're discovered; I'm just advocating a bit of perspective. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]Actually I do not quite understand why we start blaming each other here for whatever.

There are some people who do not think that the bugs in VI are serious enough to spoil their fun with it or even to not make them buy RTW. I think this is a fair point and cannot be argued with since this is a personal opinion since the fun they have with the TW products is purely subjective they cannot be wrong with their opinion

On the other hand there are some people (including myself) who think the current bugs in VI spoil their fun with it so much that it actually was not worth the money they spent on it and do not want reward a company for lacking support by buying another product from them (even if they might miss out some fun with this product). This again is a personal subjective opinion regarding fun with a game and therefore cannot be wrong.

So we should keep this less personal (I have a grudge against Activision or CA whoever is responsible for this but defintely not gainst players who are having fun with VI as it is or are looking forward ro buying RTW)

Very well said. Let`s just agree that we disagree on a subjective matter (wether VI is worth it`s price).

[Ulug Beg]

Whether or not the 56 bug bothers you depends on how you play the game. What makes MTW so special for me is the depth of play available. If you are only concerned with the conquering and use a lot of the auto build features then I can see how the age of your King is irrelevant. But for those who like the role playing element then this bug really undermines the game.

I am playing VI now just to try out all the factions and see where it goes, but I’m not particularly attached to any campaign. I doubt if I will be playing it for months, as I was with MTW.

This whole episode now means that for the first time I am looking at who produces the games as well as what the games are about. I got SFC3 last year but never got far into any campaign due to constant crashes. I have been waiting for a patch to fix this ever since, and guess what? It is produced by Activision Now I am wondering if that will ever be fixed. Without a patch SFC3 for me is a total waste of money as it is unplayable. If I had known then what I know now about Activision, I would have returned it to the shop for a refund.

Gauch0, MTW was not patched ‘several times', there was one patch. And it did pretty much fix everything as far as I was concerned (I only play SP campaigns). I’m sure with one patch for VI, CA could fix most of the issues now. For me MTW v1.1 is a great game; VI is a good game with the potential to surpass MTW.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Ulug Beg

VI contained fixes for known bugs still in MTW after the initial patch. Therefore the games has been patched twice if you have bought and installed VI.

[DthB4Dishonor]

Quote[/b] ]Tears shed and flames spread over a game is stupid. Over a game that has yet to come out....that is REALLY stupid.

Once again allow us "Vets" to clarify things a bit for you. After a game is released there is very little that can be done. For any suggestions or patron ideas to be implemented into a game it has to be done well in advance. So to say speaking about a game not yet released is "Really Stupid" is pretty much saying that the entire Collessium forum is stupid because they are also talking about a game not yet released.

Also RTKLamorak and I are not debating with you gentlemen on if you should buy RTW or not. Were just pointing out that VI leaves much to be desired. These bugs leave a game that leaves mp's cringing before they log on wondering if it will be one of those days.

RTKPaul

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ June 20 2003,08:44)]Ulug Beg

VI contained fixes for known bugs still in MTW after the initial patch. Therefore the games has been patched twice if you have bought and installed VI.
Right ... VI really was one hell of a great patch

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ June 20 2003,08:44)]Ulug Beg

VI contained fixes for known bugs still in MTW after the initial patch. Therefore the games has been patched twice if you have bought and installed VI.
Is that a joke? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[DthB4Dishonor]

I disagree, I think the best thing of VI was its balancing of the regular era's. I consider bugs to be something different than balancing. However I'm not very familiar with the sp aspect (to boring for me) so I can only comment on the mp aspect. As far as mp VI has increased the bugs (unplayability) of the game.

RTKPaul

[Lehesu]

DeathB4Dishonor: Allow me to clarify. Anticipating a game will be bad and than arguing aboud it before it has come out is stupid. Sorry if it was a bit unclear.

[The Marcher Lord]

RTW will undoubtedly require me to proceed rapidly to my doctor and ask for a blood pressure check up - but i'll be OK and recover with a prescription of some big red pills and plenty of repetitive siege action. Most of those whingeing about RTW at this stage will probably also experience an increase in blood pressure when it is released, sadly the doctor won't be able to save them and they will miss one of the strategy gaming worlds great innovations - shame really

[Monk]

well to those of us who wont by it then i have only one thing to say:

ok dont buy it...yet. i myself along with many others will buy it and undoubtably be here about 20 min after we get to playing, shouting praises of its greatness (as im sure it will be so). so if you dont want to buy it just wait to see what others have to say. but dont judge rtw because VI may have a few bugs within it

[Odinn]

I will not buy RTW if VI is not patched. Another bug that need to be patched: Kings that flee. I don't know if it's been fixed already, but it is really unrealistic that you flee without your own approval... It's ok with generals, but the king???

[The Gauch0]

Quote[/b] (Odinn @ June 21 2003,22:43)]Another bug that need to be patched: Kings that flee. I don't know if it's been fixed already, but it is really unrealistic that you flee without your own approval.
Be fair now--that's hardly a bug That was obviously by design, and there are many players (myself included) who think that fleeing kings is an appropriate aspect of the game.