Viking Invasion Patch

[Captain Fishpants]

Good news.

We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion.

This means that the "56-bug" will be fixed.

(I've argued - and failed in the attempt - that we should get sponsorship from Heinz to turn it into a 57-bug. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But that would be silly, apparently.)

An announcement will be made on the Total War website when the patch is ready.

MikeB ~ CA

[rasoforos]

that is good news indeed. I am gonna buy the game just after the patch is officially released.

[econ21]

Great news, thanks.

Any chance you can look at the "quick save" bug? I've had a number of occasions when saving between battles does not work - the quick save loads until the red is half way along the line and then I get dumped back to my desktop. It's fairly common (occurring about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time). Other people have reported the same thing. It can be frustrating when you have 3 or more one-hour long battles in a year and want to squeeze in an hour's gameplay.

Additionally, would it be possible to stop cavalry always coming on first as reinforcements? It is frustrating for the player trying to order their reinforcements, but can particularly disadvantage the AI which can't bring on a balanced force in its second wave.

Also, what's your view of the command of heirs to 9-star kings having a command rating of zero? Is it a bug or is it intended? If the latter, it seems a little extreme - I had a seven star king whose first son was also seven star; when my king won the skilled defender virtue (giving him 9 stars on the map), his next son had a command rating of zero.

[The_Emperor]

Our faith is now justified...

Zeal has increased http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks guys... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Ulug Beg]

This is wonderful news Captain
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Maelstrom]

Thanks for listening CA

...erm....any chance you could look at the reinforcements bug while you are in there? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ser Clegane]

That's great news

*kisses CF's feet*

(OMG I should learn to react in a more dignified manner)

[Divine Wind]

If anyone would like to join me please feel welcome.

"WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

weeeeeeeeeeeee

weeeeee

weee

wee

ahh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Shahed]

Very good news. Thank you.

[Kongamato]

A small patch will be nice It appears that you are limiting the scope of it to some bug fixes, like 56 year old Kings.

It would be nice if you could have this patch get to the bottom of the swipe issue and maybe fix the catastrophic sync errors generated when somebody drops from an online game without routing.

Thanks for listening.

[NagatsukaShumi]

This is good news, though the bug never bothered me personally it bothered alot of people so it is good news.

[Rocket_Boy]

Good news for CA, great news for us. Big thanks to the CA staff who visit the forums as I suspect that they played a big part in justifying the patch to Activision.

*Grants the title of royal eunuch of Egypt to Captain Fishpants*

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[CeeBod]

In the "Well I went against my word" thread, I posted:

"I haven't bought VI yet either, but I will if it's patched. Surely the more of us that post here saying that, the more CA realise that not patching will cost them sales?"
on July 17 2003,05:48

A mere 27mins later, a patch is announced

How cool do I feel at the moment? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[JohnCee]

Thats great news, thanks for listening http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Hurrah for CA

And there was much rejoicing amongst the patrons, and they went forward and bought Rome: Total War.


Quote[/b] ]We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion

Sounds like it was through Activisions gritted teeth tho.

[LordUxbridge]

YAY If you guys could sort out the reinforcement problem as well that would be great, coz as it currently works, its ALMOST worthless.

Thanx CA

[Teutonic Knight]

yeeeehaw

yay yay yay

I love you I love you I love you

So they aren't evil demonic heretics after all yay

**well boys, it looks like all our screaming payed off**

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Thanks for the good news,

How can we let you know, in the most efficient way, what would be the other points which need some patching?

There are many threads with wish list for VI patch... In MP at least, the biggest annoyance is the drop crash bug. There are a few problems in foyer (scroll bug, have to relog after each game, not to mention separate VI and MTW foyer).

Is there any room for stat adjustment or not? Any room for game mechanics adjustment or not?

Louis the Simurgh,

[Brother Derfel]

YAY


Thats just what I have been waiting for.

I can buy Rome now with a clear conscience and perhaps even a bit of confidence that it will be well suported.

Thanks CA

[spacecadet]

Good news, hopefully this will also include fixes to some of the online bugs too.

Incidentally, why was permission from Activision for a patch for MTW/VI so difficult to argue for when other Activision games such as RTCW, Elite Force 2 etc get many patches?

Space

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Does this mean we can now close and/or delete the retarded I'm not going to buy RTW without a VI patch (But I' really lying) thread now?

I should personally like to see a serious round of apologies from all of the CA bashers who couldn't make the Activision connection. Enjoy your crow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ July 17 2003,09:19)]Does this mean we can now close and/or delete the retarded I'm not going to buy RTW without a VI patch (But I' really lying) thread now?
What an unneccessary comment, Jacque

Are you sure that this patch would have been released even without any complaints? If so I wonder what this confidence was based on... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Jacque Schtrapp]

I'm not going to apologize to all of you negative nancies for having a positive outlook on life. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif That said, yes I do believe that the developers would have fixed this eventually because no professional wants to see their work incomplete or malfunctioning. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Shahed]

Sadly not all professionals have the power to complete or fix their work.

EDIT: as far as customer support goes, no-one can possibly say the support from CA/Activsion has been good or even mediocre. This is a fact not any CA bashing.

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ July 17 2003,09:32)]because no professional wants to see their work incomplete or malfunctioning. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
That must be the reasons why all products, especially software, eventually achieved the state of perfection http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I am really happy we get this patch, and I am sure that the CA people who are quite involved in this project wanted to see it function properly ... however, the fact that a "go-ahead" for a patch was given just now indicates that somebody needed to get persuaded (by whom ever).

To call complaints about product malfunctions "retarded" is IMO simply inappropriate...

[Shahed]

It remains to be seen what is fixed in this patch.
We do not have a fix list yet.

To close the thread about legitimate complaints is pre-mature, but will probably happen in the interest of silencing public dissent over public relations.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ July 17 2003,15:19)]Does this mean we can now close and/or delete the retarded I'm not going to buy RTW without a VI patch (But I' really lying) thread now?
I wasn't lying

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Captain Fishpants,is there any chance of including any more customisable bif folders? I know there were ten in VI but I had to use 8 of them (the ones with the facshield units in) in order to get my new factions working. Therefore I was only really able to use two (korean units from SHogun and topless black guys), but I would like to make more new units. Please?

[frogbeastegg]

A patch? That's great news

:Frog suddenly looks worried as she thinks of the agents she dispatched to investigate CA's office:

Er by the way if you see any dudes dressed entirely in black waving throwing stars run away. Oh, and don't trust the new tea lady if she's wearing a kimono and carrying one of those Japanese stringed instruments. Um, you'd better not go to church either, the guy dressed in red is not Santa. If the guy in red invites you to a barbeque don't accept

:Frog wipes sweat off her forehead while muttering something about "that was close":

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ July 17 2003,09:46)]To close the thread about legitimate complaints is pre-mature, but will probably happen in the interest of silencing public dissent over public relations.
There are still plenty of other threads about other bugs that are still open. Feel free to start a new thread in the event this patch does not meet up to your expectations, or if you feel the CA public relations dept. does not respond in the manner you feel you deserve.

[Knight Keimo]

Nice..
And good that it didn´t take long.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[a_ver_est]

soo ... those large arguments has been usefull, thks CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] ]because no professional wants to see their work incomplete or malfunctioning.

Actually no, many just want money and could care less about their customers...if they dont speak out then the company will "choose to think" no patch is needed and therefor not do it. I'm not saying our complaints did anything but they certainly may have.

Patch> WHAHOOOOOOO

[hrvojej]

Most excellent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Maybe the reinforcements bug will also be fixed, and the wrong generals commanding the battles will be fixed, and.....

Hmmm, looks like I will have to buy a new machine for RTW after all.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

This is good news to bad I didnt see this before I made a thread also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Hasek]

And maybe while they're at it they can indulge us and fix Hungarian and Sicilian marriage bug where in the message the king names his nation as Burgundy and the Papacy respectively http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Praylak]

I'm gonna say it. SEE Told ya's so. The gut never lies.

Now who owes me a beer?

Thanks CA

[Monk]

Patch for VI

The devs at CA have finaly decided to release a patch for Vi, this has increased the faith of all patrons within their borders.

+30 happiness
+20 Zeal
+loyalty Increases http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

seriously though this is great news. now VI will be a great game instede of just good. thanks goes out to CA. and to all those patrons here who never let up about a VI patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

Interesting... Vanya has a spot on His yard where no grass grows. Vanya is tickled that somebody would offer to install new saud over that patch of mud. Vanya once stuck a neigbor into that bog, and the poor bastid was never seen again

This is truly a great community service Vanya gives you the dimensions of the bog below so youz can bring enough saud patches:

Width: 53.10 ft
Length: 144.75 ft

The bog is approximately 39 inches lower than the surface of the healthy lawn. So bring enough dirt to level it off.

Vanya will go home now and enslave His neigbors so that they can remove the festering graves of previous neigbors in preparation for y'alls visit. The new neighbor slaves will obviously be buried in the newly patched graveyard once their heads have been harvested for this weeks July Pinata Soupfest.

GAH

[Obex]

Great news

Perhaps it would be useful to compile a list of known bugs to assist CA in the development of this patch.

[The Last Emperor]

Long live CA Thks for listening and giving us t much sought after patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Heraclius]

that's really great news. thanks CA.

[katar]

thank you CA, the patch will be greatly appreciated by me and many other players of the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Kraellin]

lol. it always amazes me when a few folks can turn good news into an arguement and yes, i would tend to call that retarded also. go sit in the corner ;)

bear in mind folks, this is a BUG patch, for what i can make out of fishpant's post. dont expect an add-on here and new features and balancing and all that. common bugs, larger bugs is most likely all that will be addressed.

also, for those not aware, there is a long running bug thread in the apothecary where we've been gathering this info almost since the release of VI, so go there to post any others or to look and see what is known before starting 10 more posts about your favorite bugs. it's a pinned topic so it's not going anywhere.

as for complaints, it has NEVER been the policy of the .org to try and squash complaints. it's only the MANNER in which the complaint is stated that gets questioned at times. keep it civil and there's no problem.

as for the effectiveness of complaints here, i'd guess that it did make a difference. the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. if the devs dont know you want something, it's less likely you'll get it. i personally know they WANT feedback, good or not so good. so, they dont want flaming spammed complaints, but they do want to know what you find and in some cases, what you dont find and certainly what's broken.

K.

[andrewt]

It's good that there is a patch coming. What's sad is it took so much complaining and the SMALL patch was only allowed through gritted teeth. I suggest CA renegotiate the deal for Rome:Total War to allow them to patch anytime or take it to another company that will allow it. Then, they should patch more.

[bhutavarna]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Finally...all of our whinning and yelling paid off. I must salute CA for this decision. They have not tarnished their good reputation.

I will wait patiently for the release of the patch, and to fullfil my commitment, I'll buy Rome TW the day it is released.

Thank You CA.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Excelent news

What exactly will be fixed? only the 56 yrs old thingy or other issues will be adressed?

[Teutonic Knight]

and do we have an ETR Fishpants?

[_Martyr_]

Great news, Im delighted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Wooooooooooooooooooo This is great *Plays 'Whole Lotta Love' by Led Zeppelin*

[Longasc]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Seems as if at least one bug will be fixed.

Perhaps that Quicksave-thing, too, I am getting optimistic... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


To Jacque Schtrapp http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif : You should lick Mount Suribachi's boots and kiss his ass, and everyone else's who complained in that thread that you just disregarded.

I think these justified complaints lead at least to this minor patch - I still hope that Quicksave-thing will be looked into, too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

yes i guess all the trolls who where flaming the RTW thread will now be eating their humble pie with extra "told u so".


good one CA (depending on the bugs fixed i might start playing VI single player again (not MP though))

[HopAlongBunny]

Yay http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Spino]

Great news Thank you Capt. Fishpants and the rest of the CA crew

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Will there be any additional bug fixes in this mini-patch?

[baz]

well it looks like the devs had to beg for their superiors to let them even fix the the "56 bug" i dont think much else will be done although i hope they can look into some other issues that are highlighted at these forums .. imo i have to agree with sinan when he says, the support that CA implement is of a very low standard, especially compared to other games

i have a plan

[Hobart]

Well, hooray

Now I can buy it. Well, once it comes out I can buy it. I sure hope the sva ebefore battle feature is indeed fixed, because that is a big selling point for me.

Thanks to everyone who pushed for the patch, here at this board, at CA and at Activision. And thanks to the guy who could've said no but didn't.

[Lehesu]

I would like to thank CA for the patch. I would also like to thank Kikkomman, without whom none of this would have been possible.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ July 17 2003,23:00)]You should lick Mount Suribachi's boots and kiss his ass
Whoa Less of the kinky stuff... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Magraev]

Excellent news. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Rome:TW just got on my shoppinglist.

[YunDog]

*stares blankly over the field of battle*

*a solitary tear rolls down his cheek*

[Demon of Light]

This is excellent news. I now declare that I WILL buy Rome: Total War. (like Mount Suribachi, I too wasn't lying when I said I wouldn't buy it without a VI patch)

Jacque Schtrapp: Not everything you disagree with is retarded. Not all people who disagree with you are weak principled, stupid or pessimists.

Longasc: It may be premature to have Jacque do anything to or with Mount Suribachi. (Not to mention that it was screwed up to suggest what you did) We still don't know how much of an impact we had in the creation of a patch. We likely won't ever find out. For now, I suggest we all be happy that a patch is scheduled and leave our smugness at the door.

Remember folks...be HAPPY that there is a patch. Don't bite, claw, scratch, assault, batter, etc. each other. Let the rest go and thank Captain Fishpants for his news.

Captain Fishpants: Thank you

[Jxrc]

YES YES YES YES YES http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Great news

I will be able to play VI again So happy, I could even pre-order RTW

As to whether the patch will be released (a) because of the many complaints, whining and boycott threats or (b) because developers are nice people utterly dedicated to making their product perfect ... well ... I do not really care ...

Maybe an healthy balance of the (a) and (b)? (I am the weaver http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif )

[Old Bald Guy]

Well, I was wr-, er, wro-, uh, mistaken. It appears I complained too loudly. Sure wish I hadn't. Perhaps we would have gotten a patch much earlier, if we hadn't made so much noise. (Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?)

Thank you, Captain Fishpants and all others at CA who pushed for the patch. We know we are on the same side, even if others might not see it.

I could have been much, much happier had certain juveniles not seen fit to make pains of themselves. With age comes cynicism, boys. You'll find that out, if you are fortunate to live so long.

Crow isn't so bad, served with a nice sauce and the proper wine.

[Orda Khan]

Well I've been called a synic and I really don't give a damn because I'm getting too used to being let down by today's standards. Unfortunately most things these days appear rushed and sub standard ( and I don't mean just pc games )and I don't see much improving. If this patch helps then fine.....but I wouldn't start celebrating yet

.....Orda

[Jazzman]

awesome dude, the day the patch comes out i'm running to the store to buy VI

[Jazzman]

awesome dude, the day the patch comes out i'm running to the store to buy VI

[Teutonic Knight]

again I ask.... do we have an ETR? (estimated time of release) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Quote[/b] (Demon of Light @ July 18 2003,10:12)]We still don't know how much of an impact we had in the creation of a patch. We likely won't ever find out. For now, I suggest we all be happy that a patch is scheduled and leave our smugness at the door.
Well it is obvious that they were mighty impressed by my statement that I wouldn't buy VI and think twice about buying RTW. Yes, yes, you may thank me now...

* Waits in silence *


Great job CA (I also get a feeling it's somewhat against Activisions will) Thanks


Edit: Teutonic Knight, ETR is probably after release of RTW... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ July 18 2003,12:40)]again I ask.... do we have an ETR? (estimated time of release) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
nope. best to be patient, rather than having them commit to a release date and then either miss it or meeting the deadline by cutting corners.

[Mamushi]

be patient grasshopper,the mighty oak does not grow overnight...ack,horrible Kung-Fu impression http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Kanuni]

Guys don't say you will buy RTW until you see what is fixed and what is not in the patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Raider_Rob]

I like patches. Patches are good. Any gaming company that makes patches in order to improve games gets my love.

You hear that Ensemble? Now make heroes have a bonus vs Set animals and I will love you guys longtime too.

[NightRider]

Thanks for Fixing 1 Bug neway.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[the Black Prince]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


WOW YES GO CA
i love you
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


btw nightrider pleze come back to the TWC, we really miss you

[Suppiluliumas]

Way to go CA. That's just good business. And if the patch does its job, I just might have to go out and buy Viking Invasion. See how nicely that works?

[Jabberwock]

Excellent news

I now feel able to install (for the first time) the copy of VI that I bought ages ago but have been looking at with suspiscion since.

Thanks CA - I do hope you will be able to correct every single problem that people have been complaining about and thus achieve peace among your followers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[sassbarman]

Good job CA I've been with you guys since the first time I gazed upon an early build of shogun in a PC game magazine and said to myself "I gotta have that." Depite what I'm sure are difficult time constraints, like true pro's you couldn't leave a job 99% done. Your efforts are appreciated

[NightRider]

Ok Black...ill poke my head in mate and say hello

[Husar]

Very nice. Please take a look at the swabian swordsmen, their swords are a little too big and it seems like they dont know how to carry/use them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[SpiderFromMars]

The MP aspect is really messed up, if CA can fix this with one 'small' patch then hoooray If not I'll just moon them

[FesterShinetop]

Quote[/b] (SpiderFromMars @ July 20 2003,15:02)]The MP aspect is really messed up, if CA can fix this with one 'small' patch then hoooray If not I'll just moon them
Maybe you can even combine that with the Barking Mad topic (in the colloseum) and earn a preview of RTW? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Empress_Zoe]

Good Start CA, You will eventually see the pay off in this, hopefully you will expand this kind of action in the future.

If you are having trouble with your overlords Activision, as you had with EA, then get a new one. After all, the total war games are very popular, and its not like you need giant Dictators behind you to sell these games.

being used to dealing lately with companies that go out of their way to patch games, even improving them on the whim of their consumers, I will say to you that you have made the first step toward a decent policy for your fans, i sincerely hope that this will be not only continued, but greatly expanded in the future.

[Longasc]

I wonder that this important topic is in danger of dropping to page 2 - but bumping it is forbidden, so I will not do it.

Hope, you agree, Mods. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

[Shahed]

Here is something I picked up off another forum, I think it is relevant so i post it here:

"Seems like they care more about extending some binary-coded medieval king's last years than helping 8 real people standing around in the foyer with their thumbs up their ar*** because the game crashed for the 2,340,211 time."

I wonder what MP bugs will be fixed. I agree somewhat with the above statemtn in that last Saturday I was one of the 8 people with the thumbs for about an hour before I got a game going. Suffered so many drops just for one game, lost so much time waiting. Will you do something about this CA ?


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Shahed]

Well here is the rest of it:

"for godsake CA we are alive we mean something help us please

help?"

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Longasc]

I still hope that they address the Quicksave Bug, too, Seljuk. And hopefully your MP wishes as well, but Cpt. Fishpants said, 56 years only fix.

Addressing the MP issue would take surely much more work - the quicksave thing probably, too. But I still hope they fix as much as possible.

[RisingSun]

Praise the Gods Oh thank you, CA, mightest of developers, for granting our meager wishes (By the way,I sure wasnt lying in that thread)

[Biggus Dickus]

I'm getting a vicious sound bug repeating (stuterring) sounds anyone else getting this?, that as well as the assain bug.

[TosaInu]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ July 17 2003,06:15)]Good news.

We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion.

This means that the "56-bug" will be fixed.

(I've argued - and failed in the attempt - that we should get sponsorship from Heinz to turn it into a 57-bug. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But that would be silly, apparently.)

An announcement will be made on the Total War website when the patch is ready.

MikeB ~ CA
Konnichiwa,

Read the post again please:

-There will be a small patch for VI
-The 56 year bug will be fixed
-A joke.
-Statement that the patch will be announced at com when ready.

There are no statements that the 56 year bug will be the only bug fixed, nor that more will be fixed.

The Shogun from CA posted this at totalwar.com forum:

Quote[/b] ]
The patch will address the 56 death bug and a couple of mulitplayer issues I do not have any further details at the moment, When I do I will announce them here or on the site.

This also just states that there'll be a patch and that the 56 bug will be fixed together with some MP issues. It does not say that the 56 bug will be the only SP bug that will be fixed, nor that more will be fixed.

Please use this Topic (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=6664) in the Apothecary to report bugs. Please explain clearly.

[Shahed]

Hai Tosa

Some interesting points. I guess we will have to wait for a list of bug fixes to be released to be certain what is going to be fixed. In the meantime I am off to post a bug report (maybe I better do this after work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

Ja mata.

[Puzz3D]

Sinan,

Of about 250 VI 3v3 and 4v4 MP battles I've had 80% completed. Of the 20% that fail, some are due to players escaping and some are due to players with a bad internet connection or computer problems. My experience is that most of the drops I get are caused by those three things. For the most part, it's the same people kicking out of my games over and over. One improvement I've noticed in VI is that battles are more likely to launch, with everyone getting to the batlefield, than they were in MTW.

There are problems with people dropping from the GameSpy foyer. I know there was a big improvement made between v1.0 and v1.1 with foyer dropping, so maybe some further improvement is possible, but it can never be completley eliminated since dropping can be caused by things beyond the program's control.

[Shahed]

...therefore there is no need to improve MP stability ?

I agree with your points Yuuki, however I do strongly disagree that the MP game has reached a stage where we can deduce no further improvements necessary, because most drops are due to reasons beyond the game's control.

I still see too many out of sync errors, too many drops before the game stars, too many drops while we are playing. I agree that some are network issues which we cannot resolve. I know a couple of people who are particularly unfortunate in this regard. Nevertheless how come the people like me with very good machines, very reliable internet connections and equipment continue to get dropped in MTW, but in NO other game at the same rate ? In my case I usually am able to stay in the battle and the game ends for me only if someone else drops. I have dropped from a game about 2 times in some months, so I know that my config is ok, but ofc others keep dropping and this is a problem which can neither be neglected nor denied, and it is in my belief within the game and not network issues which are responsible, otherwise the people who drop from MTW would also drop from AAO, but I can play with those same people for hours on any other MP game. Increasingly I have been playing other games with members of the org (thanks org for the great people I met here).

Could someone tell me how I can check my stats for the bug report ? I would like to see how many games ended in crashes.

[MiniKiller]

any release date? thx

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ July 26 2003,21:50)]any release date? thx
Same question here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ July 24 2003,09:15)]I still see too many out of sync errors, too many drops before the game stars, too many drops while we are playing. I agree that some are network issues which we cannot resolve. I know a couple of people who are particularly unfortunate in this regard. Nevertheless how come the people like me with very good machines, very reliable internet connections and equipment continue to get dropped in MTW, but in NO other game at the same rate ? In my case I usually am able to stay in the battle and the game ends for me only if someone else drops. I have dropped from a game about 2 times in some months, so I know that my config is ok, but ofc others keep dropping and this is a problem which can neither be neglected nor denied, and it is in my belief within the game and not network issues which are responsible, otherwise the people who drop from MTW would also drop from AAO, but I can play with those same people for hours on any other MP game.
It's because the game is peer-to-peer and not client/server, and so many individual men have to precisely track each other on multiple machines. You have something like 8000 men in a typical 4v4 on 8 different machines which have to track. The battle plays out independently on the 8 different machines. Thats 8 * 8000 = 64000 men total. If even a single man gets out of position on one machine, the game can diverge to something completely different from what's on the other machines. I don't know about the possibility of a design that attempts to resync the machines if something goes out during a battle. It seems to me it would be possible to resync, but it would take a while to do it. You can remove the -strictserver argument from the shortcut so the game will continue if there is an out of sync, but with unpredictable results.

I noticed in STW and WE/MI that once a battle launched you were free of the EA server. I remember more than once coming out of a completed battle only to find that the EA server had crashed while we were playing, but it hadn't interfered with the battle. It seems to me that MTW is different. If any machine looses connection to the GameSpy server during the battle, that machine leaves the battle immediately and you see that message that you've lost connection to the server. I'm not sure why it's set up like that except possibly to prevent direct ip play, but it does lower the stability of a battle after launch since every machine has to maintain that connection to GameSpy continuously in addition to the connections to the other machines in the battle.

There is information in the logfiles about the completion status of a battle such as, battle fought to completion, user quit battle, user quit before deploy and connection lost. You have to go through them one by one and tabulate how the battle ended to get totals.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ July 17 2003,06:15)]Good news.

We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion.

This means that the "56-bug" will be fixed.

(I've argued - and failed in the attempt - that we should get sponsorship from Heinz to turn it into a 57-bug. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But that would be silly, apparently.)

An announcement will be made on the Total War website when the patch is ready.

MikeB ~ CA
A question: I've corrected the txt files of my viking invasion spanish version because there are many mistakes in the translation of the game. Will the patch overwrite these txt files? (txt files in the loc\spanish directory and txt files i campmap\startpos diectory). If not, i've to correct all of these txt files again.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

If the patch only overwrites binaries let me know it.

Thanks for the viking patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[MrWhipple]

Great News
As anyone who reads this topic can see, there is a LOT of intrest in this subject out there, and some strong feelings. I hope you are watching this CA. Thanx for the update Fishpants.

[A.Saturnus]

too bad, now we won`t see if all the "I won`t buy RTW if VI isn`t fixed"-guys really meant it

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
just kidding... great news

[einar]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ July 28 2003,06:12)]too bad, now we won`t see if all the "I won`t buy RTW if VI isn`t fixed"-guys really meant it

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
just kidding... great news
Well, i said: i won't buy RTW until VI is patched. It seems VI is going to be patched, so i say now: I'll buy RTW because VI is going to be patched. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Kraxis]

Ahhhh... That is my response. I just hope it will be a little more than just small.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (einar @ July 27 2003,17:08)]
Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ July 17 2003,06:15)]Good news.

We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion.

This means that the "56-bug" will be fixed.

(I've argued - and failed in the attempt - that we should get sponsorship from Heinz to turn it into a 57-bug. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But that would be silly, apparently.)

An announcement will be made on the Total War website when the patch is ready.

MikeB ~ CA
A question: I've corrected the txt files of my viking invasion spanish version because there are many mistakes in the translation of the game. Will the patch overwrite these txt files? (txt files in the loc\spanish directory and txt files i campmap\startpos diectory). If not, i've to correct all of these txt files again.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

If the patch only overwrites binaries let me know it.

Thanks for the viking patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I guess it will overwrite only where changes have to be made.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ July 28 2003,09:59)]I guess it will overwrite only where changes have to be made.
Yes, if the patch only fix the 56 years bug, i think it won't overwrite any txt files. If not, i've to correct all the new txt files http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Could the CA developers answer to this question?

Thx http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Thanks, CA.

=============

[Shahed]

Here is another opinion .net forums, not my own but perhaps worthy of reading:

----------------
"Dearest CA Member(s) of Whomever this Should Concern:

Please enjoy my experience today completely free of guilt and totally at my expense -


It’s Monday morning and I am home on a sick day due to some food poisoning this past weekend. I wake up, shower, get dressed and make some cream of wheat for breakfast. Read the paper, check the local news and head to the office. Go over the previous weeks work and bills then clean the desk off and turn on the monitor. Check email and answer a couple, then reboot the system. Get the M-Z Game Album and pick out Medieval Total War Viking Invasions. Put it in the DVD player and click on the VI icon in my Quick Launch bar.

So there I was, all ready for some training with my comrades. I get in the foyer and have some good old pre-game banter, you just have to love the MP community; they’re always willing to support a good banter session. So I ask for some games and I see a couple people I know come on. We talk and then we decide that we will play a 2v2 and that I will host. Great I get the particulars as far as maps, florins and whatnot because it’s all still relatively new to me. I set it all up and click the continue button and…pooft Nothing. So I wait as it can be sluggish I guess at times. Still nothing and then out of the blue something magical happens…my computer reboots on its own

I say, "Ok, must be a conflict with some system driver or whatnot". So I run a system diagnostic and everything checks out peachy. I reboot again (removing all preloaded programs because I want all resources available for TW) and when I get back online I make a sarcastic complaint then decide to host another game.

Zzzappp System locks up and I have to reboot. WTF.

Ok. Determined not to be beaten I boot up and logon then get a funny little Account Details error. WTF is that I try again with same result I am thinking that the CA Gremlins have infiltrated my happy domicile and are beaming rays of negativity and defeatism at me through my screen. I decide to exit the game and restart it. I do successfully then try to log on again and get a log error. I immediately grab a sewing needle out of my drawer and jab it into my arm. OUCH I just wanted to make sure I was awake because this is surreal. I check my windows to ensure no one is watching and then turn back to the computer. It has been an hour already.

I decide to power off my computer in frustration and go get a drink of water, put a bandaid on my arm and relax. I pick up a half read The Art of Happiness by his Holiness the Dalai Lama. I read a chapter and a half and feel at peace a little more then decide to give it another go.

I get back on power up and load the game. Hooray I am in the foyer. I tentatively try to host...SUCCESS I am ready for some games and then a friend asks me to join their game. Fear settles over me like a swarm of flies over fresh laid fecal matter. Somehow, I manage to get enough courage to click the exit button and everything is ok.

I join a mate’s game and we manage to play. Have a great time and I learn a new tactic. I have newfound joy and anticipation for playing another game. I get out the game say GG ALL and go to join another game and BLAMMMMM Computer locks up. I resist the urge to throw my monitor through the window and set it back down on the desk. Obviously it must be my error. No professional organization would put out merchandise this full of bugs to the public would they (thinks Microsoft) then again...

I continue throughout the day to make attempts to play, with and without success. My therapist says I try to force the issue too much and I tell him it’s just point and click How much forcing can you do?

I talk to my dog. She listens, I swear in that keen only a dog can listen way. I’ll complain to her about the state of the game and she cocks her head very understandingly. I think I could train her to sniff out those CA Gremlins and destroy them. ........ Go get ‘em girl"

[Urban Legend]

Has anyone seen the official announcement? I can't find one at totalwar.com

[Frankymole]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ July 23 2003,18:25)]I still hope that they address the Quicksave Bug, too, Seljuk.
I've been searching in the Apothecary but the only save issue I can find seems to be changes in loyalty from loading saved games. Can someone provide a short description, or link, to the "Quicksave Bug"? Is it VI-specific, or also in MTW v1.1?

[cromwell]

I had the same problem as stated above. i would log on to play MP, start in a foyer with the game players, the game would launch and bam crashes so hard my computer reboots. I was using WINXP pro, DX9a. Then I couldn't reboot as soon as the computer got to the desktop it would continually reboot itself. Ended up installing win2000 pro and now havn't had any problems. This after months of playing with XP with no problems. It may not have anything to do with MTW but that same day Counter strike worked no problem.

Cromwell

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (Urban Legend @ Aug. 02 2003,05:33)]Has anyone seen the official announcement? I can't find one at totalwar.com
ummmmmmmmmmm......
that's cause it's not been released yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Longasc]

Frankymole, I - and some others - already posted that bug in the Apothecary.

Sometimes Quicksaves screw up the game.

E.g. your save between Battles, and when you return and want to reload -> Crash.

The only way to avoid the crash is to choose not to fight at all. Especially annoying if you already had a longer battle.

This is of couse VI specific - MTW 1.1 had no Quicksave Feature.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (Frankymole @ Aug. 02 2003,13:59)]I've been searching in the Apothecary but the only save issue I can find seems to be changes in loyalty from loading saved games. Can someone provide a short description, or link, to the "Quicksave Bug"? Is it VI-specific, or also in MTW v1.1?
Its the save option on the pre-battle screen in VI which saves to your quick save slot. Some people have reported CTDs when they try and load this save. And as many of us bought VI purely for the save between battles feature its pretty annoying, tho thankfully I haven't suffered from it so far.

[Urban Legend]

Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ Aug. 02 2003,11:59)]
Quote[/b] (Urban Legend @ Aug. 02 2003,05:33)]Has anyone seen the official announcement? I can't find one at totalwar.com
ummmmmmmmmmm......
that's cause it's not been released yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
No an announcement that a patch is being made.

[Couscous]

The announcement that the patch is being made is still on the Totalwar.com forum, it's just slipped down several pages, find it here (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm5.showMessage?topicID=8420.topic).


Couscous

[Frankymole]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ Aug. 02 2003,12:11)]This is of couse VI specific - MTW 1.1 had no Quicksave Feature.
Thanks, Longasc and Mount Suribachi - I thought people might be referring to the Ctrl-S campaign map fast save which is called quicksave in some references.

[Teutonic Knight]

HOW MUCH LONGER MUST WE ENDURE THE TORMENT OF WAITING????

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Sjakihata]

87923 millions trillions billion fantasillions of ...






















nano seconds http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ Aug. 07 2003,13:25)]HOW MUCH LONGER MUST WE ENDURE THE TORMENT OF WAITING????

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
yeah i know how you feel, but these things take time... it will probley be another 3-4...months http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif











j/k http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


but really it has taken a looong time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Lehesu]

As soon as the patch comes out, I shall be playing Total War exclusivly for at least a month.

[Suppiluliumas]

Standing by with thirty US dollars. The ball's in your court CA.

[goscho]

Don't blame CA for rebooting.
If the game crashes - yes, blame them too
But if your system is rebooting, there is probally something else wrong - bad driver, Micro$oft, bad hardware etc.
An application should not reboot the PC if she executes something, no mather how bad or buggy she is.

[Dogmeat]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ Aug. 07 2003,16:48)]
Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ Aug. 07 2003,13:25)]HOW MUCH LONGER MUST WE ENDURE THE TORMENT OF WAITING????

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
yeah i know how you feel, but these things take time... it will probley be another 3-4...months http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

but really it has taken a looong time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
[Hudson voice] 3 or 4 months I don't wanna rain on your parade pal, but we're not gonna last 3 or 4 days The bugs are gonna kill our kings just like they did before, we're doomed.... we're f***ed [/hudson voice]

sorry, couldn't resist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Anyway, great news about the patch I love you guys Never lost faith for a second http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (goscho @ Aug. 07 2003,18:05)]Don't blame CA for rebooting.
If the game crashes - yes, blame them too
But if your system is rebooting, there is probally something else wrong - bad driver, Micro$oft, bad hardware etc.
An application should not reboot the PC if she executes something, no mather how bad or buggy she is.
Actually a buggy aplication can pretty much reboot your PC depending on the configuration you have. In some configuratons rebooting replaces the "blue screens of death". Also, conflicts with anti-virus, firewall software are pretty akin to rebooting.

And you can blame it on micros**t for it.

[AgentBif]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ July 18 2003,03:15)]We've now got the go-ahead to do a small patch for Viking Invasion.
As long as you guys are fixing bugs, please make sure the patch handles these problems:

+ Mass uber rebellions. From what I can see, most people really hate this thing, since it is silly that so many full elite stacks can suddenly be fabricated all over your kingdom. Please implement an option checkbox for this "feature".

+ Mass unavoidable corruption vices in governors. Similar annoyance as above. Please put in an option check box for said "feature".

+ Reenforcement order. Please make sure that the order of troops requested is actually followed when the battle starts.

+ 100% innaccurate weather prediction. It ALWAYS rains when the weather is predicted to be clear all day. Please fix this. Real world weather doesn't change every 5 minutes, please tone down the chaos.

+ Trees should not block the mouse drag when placing units. Please fix this, there is no good reason for this impediment to the user interface.

+ Please enable a totally free camera. Right now disabling the "restricted camera" option still leaves the camera severely restricted.

+ AI can't handle budgeting. For some reason on expert difficulty the strat AI always seems to collapse of it's own accord. It can't seem to be able to run a positive income, keeping far too many peasants around, allowing mass rebellions, and still not setting up solid trade routes for income. (Though the trade route thing seems to be partially fixed.)

Thanks for the attention guys. The game is great, but it still suffers grievously from these problems.

[solypsist]

its' being tested.

[frogbeastegg]

I'm posting this on behalf of rafiki, a junior patron in the Entrance Hall.

"Hi

(I'm posting here, since I can't follow up on the thread in the Main Hall).

Does anyone know when we can start looking for the VI patch? I'm not necessarily looking for a specific date and time (allthough I'd like that ), but a ballpark figure would be good to have.

Also, does anyone know what said patch will contain? Y56-bugfix? Reinforcement-bugfix? Other stuff?

Regards,
Rafiki "

His original post can be found here. (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=9985)

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (solypsist @ Aug. 11 2003,01:25)]its' being tested.
aha Soly's in the know

spill the beans Soly c'mon

[jLan]

I would like it if you could improve the AI when it comes to ships... I recently had a campaign as the Italians, where the Byzantines eventually had the second greatest fleet (after me) the only problem was that they were all located from spain and up to france, with no ships connecting to the main land (thus no trade income)... Theres no reason the Byzantines would want to have 10 ships around france/spain, while not bothering with trade routes...

[Mount Suribachi]

But even building 10 ships in an improvement from 1.1

AI "ships? what are they?"

[Longasc]

Good idea, lets post what is still buggy while they are fixing it - a better place would be the Apothecary, but well, we are already here...

-> the well known bug of kings dying at a certain age... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-> Quicksave feature sometimes crashing campaign map after reloading and trying to start the battle.

-> sure many people can add some more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[jLan]

I think the 10 ships are mainly thanks to MedMod..

[Mount Suribachi]

No, I noticed a *big* jump in the number of AI ships in the ocean from 1.1 to 2.0. Its one of the many little improvements in VI.

[jLan]

That might be it... Anyhow, in my current campaign, the Danish have a nice big fleet, large trade networks... BUT NO TRADING POSTS They could have made 5 times as much money if they only invested 400 florins (or 800 in original game)

Hell, the same goes for Byzantines, they dont have a trading post in constantinople http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Longasc]

This probably will not be fixed, so hope for Rome to have less Problems with that...


LET'S BET: What is finished earlier?

Rome OR the MTW:VI patch?

I guess it will take some time, and this is good if they really fix a lot, but I think the VI patch will be released earlier than Rome.

[Alrowan]

any status?

[Longasc]

Not yet, it has only been announced here.

So let's bet... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Teutonic Knight]

bah It's never ever gonna come out is? is it huh?

wahhhhhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[solypsist]

read this whole thread before asking what's up with the patch.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ Aug. 13 2003,11:03)]bah It's never ever gonna come out is? is it huh?

wahhhhhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

There there now, don't worry, the nice men will bring out your patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

just don't cry like that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wellington]

2 Questions for CA staff -

1) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI folder structures?

2) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI file structures pertaining to maps, models, terrain, trees or backdrops?


If so, which?

Welly

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Aug. 14 2003,12:14)]2 Questions for CA staff -

1) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI folder structures?

2) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI file structures pertaining to maps, models, terrain, trees or backdrops?


If so, which?

Welly

Hhhmmm. I would have thought that CA staff would have been a bit more eager to reply to simple questions posed in a thread that ... er ...

... they themselves started

But, in the words of Phil Collins, ...

... "No reply at all"

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Pdifolco]

Well, I'm starting to wonder if CA will really make a patch or if they changed their mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Absolutely no reply, feedback, ETA, details on the features of the patch, nada ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Gregoshi]

There is no reply because anything they say will be taken as written in stone by some. Then CA will be raked through the coals for lying if a fix they said "might" be in the patch actually doesn't make it in the patch. Same goes for expected release date of the patch. Should they miss an estimated release date, the barbs will fly and the old "two weeks" jokes will reappear in these forums.

It is in their best interest to say nothing. That is unfortunate because I'd like to know more about the patch too.

[Lehesu]

The silence is here because of us, the ever-fickle community.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Aug. 25 2003,18:17)]There is no reply because anything they say will be taken as written in stone by some. Then CA will be raked through the coals for lying if a fix they said "might" be in the patch actually doesn't make it in the patch. Same goes for expected release date of the patch. Should they miss an estimated release date, the barbs will fly and the old "two weeks" jokes will reappear in these forums.

It is in their best interest to say nothing. That is unfortunate because I'd like to know more about the patch too.
Sigh, sigh, sigh.

C'mon Greg. Are you being serious or are you being paid by CA?

Sadly, I fail to understand how any moderator at the "Org" can reply in such a vein.

We all know the "Org" site has a vested interest in ensuring CA staff post in these forums. That's obviously why ALL CA staff are afforded the luxory of being top status (Patron-wise) at the "Org", regardless of the quantity and qualitly of their posts.

Ok, maybe that's understandable. What, IMHO, is NOT understandable is why you "Org guys" are so quick to protect CA from questions that may prove to be of an embarrassing nature.

Let me point out that this thread was started by CA staff/ Has this really escaped your notice? Also, allow me to point out that CA's sub-title was Officially Good News . Hey, sounds wonderful, but lets take each word in turn -

a) Offically - hhmmm this says something to me. Is it possible that CA's use of the word "official" may imply that ... er ... any CA comments in this thread could be interpreted as being ... er ... official?

b) Good - a word that implies positive overtones. and may leave one too conclude that this thread would be embued with the principle of positiveness (not that I really see many posive responses - 1 initial CA post and 140 unanswered responses&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

c) News - Well, I give up Refer to b) above


Look Greg. The very fact that I'm replying to you and NOT CA should speak volumes. Furthermore the fact that you choose to respond to and "defend" a thread started by CA that has offered absolutely nothing in terms of officialness, goodness or newsworthyness should say even more.

Your comment that -

It is in their best interest to say nothing

- really pisses me off. Why? Well, if you really wish to say nothing then don't start such a f*****g thread in the first place Does this make sense to you? Certainly does to me

Please allow me to conclude by refering to your first sentence -

There is no reply because anything they say will be taken as written in stone by some.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

If CA start a thread and never respond to it, but subtitle the thread Officially Good News then ... er ...

... just what do you really expect?

Welly

[Gregoshi]

Welly, I don't like the silent treatment, but I understand the reality. I worked as an application programmer for 18 years and saw the behaviour I talked about first hand. We always had to be careful what we said to certain audiences because if we were nice and told them "best guesses" early in a project, our feet were held to the fire later when our "best guesses" didn't pan out.

Suppose CA did pop in here and give us an update on when they anticipate the patch being done and what they are fixing. Imagine now the reaction of patrons when they hear that their "must be fixed" bug isn't being addressed? Long, passionately stated rants against CA for not addressing the most critical bug in VI is unacceptable and they will "never buy another TW game again" blah blah blah. Should CA come here and address each concern individually (140&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif? Or should they ignore such pleas and actually work on the patch and RTW? I'd rather they work on the patch and we can complain about what it didn't fix when it comes out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif , rather than engage in long, drawn out debates about it over the weeks/months CA works on it.

As far as the "official good news", there was a clamouring for a patch for almost as soon as VI was released. CA simply wished to inform us that they received the go-ahead to work on a patch that most of us had given up on. They've received a ton of feedback from us on what the issues were and got their time/resource allocation for the patch from Activision or CA management. It is their decision what can/can't be fixed within those parameters and we have to trust that they will fix as much as they can.

We are a tough, fickle crowd as Lehesu said. First we were ready to burn down CA's building because they wouldn't give us a patch. Then they announce they will give us a patch - but apparently that isn't good enough anymore.

As for defending CA, yes, I'm defending CA because most of the javelins tossed their way are based on unrealistic expectations or misunderstandings. I also take into account that our patrons have widely different views on what is a problem and what isn't. You'd think the 56-bug would be a slam-dunk for everyone to want fixed. Yet Toranaga posted a while back that he'd like it kept in the game as an option The old "that's not a bug, it's a feature" saying in action. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Anyway, I'll defend CA as needed and, er, not defend them (in a civil way) if they deserve it.

Besides all the malarkey I wrote above, I'm an overly understanding person. I prefer to think positively about people until they give me reason to think otherwise. So, regarding the patch, the glass is half full. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Longasc]

I think Gregoshi is right - but not absolutely.

Sure, they cannot handle specific requests, I think Wellington will have to live with that.

But they cannot afford to piss of the "fickle crowd".

While most here surely agree that the TW series is a really good one, I think nobody will claim that it ever experienced satisfying patch-support. All TW games - okay, Shogun and Medieval, Rome is not out yet, were really buggy from the start and needed fixing. The same happened to VI.

Now, bugs are not unusual. Nearly every game today has several bugs. But REALLY ANNOYING Bugs, stopping players to play that game, that is something more serious.


Okay, we got news that there will be a patch - let's be patient, even if it is really hard... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif


But I agree with Wellington in another point:

Defence of CA and their products.

I posted some month ago directly after I installed VI my frustration about certain things that were not mentioned, e.g. my Campaign progress was resetted, replays got lost and so on.

Okay, I got used to it and found a way to save the old replays, but...


WHY is so much praise for Rome, a game of which we have only seen videos and screenshots so far? I saw an interview with the German magazine GameStar, and yes, Rome looks REALLY promising

But it is still not REALLY tested, we have only seen the Eye Candy and the new way the Campaign Map works - but we cannot test it and see if it has flaws or not.

But many praise the game, and that's okay.


BUT... why is it a problem to point out shortcomings and bugs, criticizing CA's patching policy and support and so on.

Maybe that we are just a crowd of people who need a scapegoat and make CA the bad boy...

This is not entirely true. WE care for the game. WE love it Otherwise we would cry one time and then stop crying about this or that bug.

But many people here really care for the game and the series, and it is bad that so much crying and stuff like "not buying Rome" is needed to express how unsatisfied many here are.


The good thing is, that there will be a patch. It might still take some time, but they finally heard the cries.


Maybe that there is a harsh tone, people often do that when criticizing things, and that is not good, too.

But there is no need to be overly protective towards CA. They read here and I am sure they can look over unjust crying and such things, but they should not ignore or be protected from the things disappointed or angered people have to say.


Who knows, perhaps they had a great Marketing idea and will ship Rome and the VI patch together...^^

ROME: Total War (+Medieval/Viking Invasion Enhancement Patch)

hrhr... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Shahed]

Nice post Longasc.

It's simple, you buy a product,you spend YOUR MONEY. It does not work as it should, in fact sometimes it does NOT work at all (think MP). What do you do ? You want your money back or fix it/replace it. People pay for entertainment, not frustration.

CA have done well but in terms of product support, and customer support, they have done very poorly. It took a hue and cry to get this patch.

There is a limit to understanding, after which things must improve. With the patch announcement it is a step in the right direction.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a patch. i don't think it's too much to ask for updates on patch progress. I think that CA should have a more direct dialogue with the clients. A good idea would be for CA to post patch updates in this post or on the official site. Letting the community know how it's going. This would go a long way in letting us know that they care.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]I don't think it's too much to ask for a patch. i don't think it's too much to ask for updates on patch progress. I think that CA should have a more direct dialogue with the clients. A good idea would be for CA to post patch updates in this post or on the official site. Letting the community know how it's going. This would go a long way in letting us know that they care.


What do you need updates on patch progress for? It will either fix the bugs or suck, and we`ll know that when it`s done. What`s the problem?

[Old Bald Guy]

[B]It took a hue and cry to get this patch.

er, what patch?

The announcement of a patch was made on July 17. That shut us up. We've been MORE than patient on this issue. I haven't heard any clammering for updates on when the patch would be released. I haven't heard anything at all up to this point. Now, the natives grow restless, and that's not surprising at all. A reasonable time has passed and no word from CA about when the patch will be ready.

Time's up. We pushed for the patch, which would not have been considered at all had we not pushed. After six weeks, maybe it's time to start pushing again?

No matter, however. Not many people are still playing the game. CA has blown this completely. I have no interest at all in buying any more of their games. R:TW may be the greatest game ever, but knowing it won't be supported makes me pass on the game. Maybe when it hits the bargain bin, and that might happen very quickly given the past hard feelings many have toward the company. I bet many people feel exactly the same as I do, and the sales could be WAY down for R:TW because of the lack of trust on the part of the buyers.

The released VI with really bad bugs. It took more than two months to announce a patch which more than a month later is still not available. If it were released today, there would be only a short time before R:TW is released, when most will no longer play M:TW, even if they come back to playing it when the patch is released.

At this point, CA looks like they are only interested in getting us to buy, not to play, and then only to buy more.

When R:TW comes out, I'll be gone from this forum, too, because there won't be any left to talk to. Pretty sad, I guess, but that's life.

You guys can apologize all you can for CA, but it's sure hard for you to make them look good at this time and place. I'm angry with them, because M:TW is the best game I've ever played, surpassing even the legendary Civ2. Honestly, I wish for perfection, but would settle for better. First you get mad, then you get depressed, then you give up.

[BDC]

Could be worse. I remember that for the Cossacks expansion, Art of War, there was a much needed patch that was actually finished for it. The publishers wouldn't let the developers release it until they wanted, which turned out to be the day after the 3rd stand alone expansion was released. They pretty much destroyed their own community and fan base by that... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Kraxis]

Lets remember that Activision are the ones that controls everything. CA can only produce things, they can't give us what we want without Activision. And before them it was EA.
Both companies have been rather withholding when it comes to patches (though in STW it did end up quite good)...

BUT, it has been quite some time now since they told us we would be getting a patch. I personally would not like to get a patch two months before RTW, that would be bad. Thus I would like to know if it is worth it for me to wait.

[frogbeastegg]

New patron Drucius posted this in the Entrance Hall:

"...that I can't post to (yet), I felt moved to reply to the whinging and teeth gnashing that has been a feature of some of the posts regarding the release of a patch for V.I. I have witnessed some petulant, childish and idiotic things in my time, but some of this takes the biscuit. To say that C.A. are to blame for the lack of a patch and that they have, somehow, betrayed their customers is wholly untrue, as it's Activision's money that pays for the patches, not C.A.'s. I think a more likely scenario is that CA have gone to Activision, pointing to your complaints and annoying them until they caved in and allowed CA to go ahead and make the patch. So many of the complaints are so petty, I mean, who really cares that your king dies at the age of 56? It's just somthing that you work around and prepare for (mind you, I hope the person who let that bug through got a good spanking), most of these wee bugs are annoying, not life threatening (don't stop making the patch on my account though, eh?). I think CA obviously care about their products, you can tell just playing them that a lot of wit, imagination and care has gone in to everything they've produced so far. To say that you no longer trust anything that CA will produce in the future is foolhardy, for without CA, what would you have? Nothing. So what will you have in the future? Nothing.

CA owe us nothing, because they have already given us so much"

You can find his original post here. (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=10384)

[Lord Of Storms]

I agree in part that CA is not solely responsible for the time involved in producing "The Patch" they had to wait for the go ahead from Activision, that is understandable, how a bug like the 56yr bug slipped past them before release is not understandable, and what bugs me is that in the months prior to the release of Viking Invasion the CA guys were here on the boards often, answering questions almost daily, where are they now? I think the follow up to a release of an expansion is just as important if not more than the pre- release hype. In my opinion CA should have more of a presence here to support and answer our questions on a more regular basis, not just prior to a release. I would like to suggest that the CA staff that come to these forums provide us with an opportunity to talk with them on all the issues concerning MTW VI via an open chat forum right here at the ORG , now I realize something like this can turn into a uncontrolled pissing and moaning session, with everyone ranting and raving there likes and dislikes.
But maybe we can set something up in the way of an orderly Q & A session and CA will get an opportunity to put all the
information regarding a patch into perspective for everyone.
And we would have some of our questions answered, if this could be done somehow it would clear the air for all parties involved. LOS

[Gregoshi]

OBG, your comments about putting pressure on CA to release the patch hit a nerve with me after just listening to a news story about the report issued today on the findings of the investigation into spaceshuttle Columbia accident. One of the findings was that NASA had put too much emphasis on being on-time. Unrelated issues, I know, but the comparison between the news report and your post was there in my mind (such that it is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )

We are getting a patch whether it be too late or not. Pressure worked (apparently) to get approval for the patch, but it will be counter productive at while it is in progress. Fixing software is not the same as fixing a car. Since this looks to be the only patch we will get, I want it to be a good patch.

I agree with Longasc about RTW. The pictures and movies look great, but it is far too early to sing praises (or sling barbs). I'll also agree that I don't like the trend in the patching policy either. It looks like we can count on one patch per game. The policy should be to provide as many patches as it takes to get the game working reasonably well. That phrase "reasonably well" might be why you (I won't take any credit here) all had to twist their arm to get this patch. I think VI was the quietest (fewest reported problems) game release in the TW series. However, that is not an excuse to skip a patch, especially with such glaring game play problems such as the 56-bug.

Like many of you, I too would love to get progress updates on the patch. What are they working on? Are they having problems with any of the fixes? Though it flies again corporate wisdom, I'd like to see CA take a chance and keep us posted on their progress. Give us the opportunity to show that keeping us informed is good for their image as a company concerned about its customers. Unfortunately, that is not the prevailing attitude in the business world - like it or not.

Okay, I could say quite a bit more, but I think I've rambled on more than enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Lord Of Storms @ Aug. 26 2003,11:31)]... now I realize something like this can turn into a uncontrolled pissing and moaning session, with everyone ranting and raving there likes and dislikes.
Sounds good to me LoS ...

... lets go for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Empress_Zoe]

lol, I see the patch still isn't out

Why am i not surprised?

CA make great game concepts, then let them fly right out the window with lack of support.

If Activision are the culprits, then why sign up with yet another money hungry devil? The game concepts that CA come up with could easily have went to someone else with more support understanding.

[Knight_Yellow]

omg

so CA decide to make a patch and now you lot of moaners are crying cos its not out yet?

give them a break for christ sake.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I really don't mine waiting for the patch. I really, really hope though that CA gives us a few more customisable Bif folders. Go on, Please? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Well, as the one who started the somewhat controversial boycott thing in the first place, may I just echo what Gregoshi said.

I would rather have a full, complete, thorough, playtested patch (preferably that adds new features - hey, you can dream http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) that I have to wait 6 months for than a patch that they bang out in 2 weeks that fixes the 56 year bug and little else.

Remember people, half the problem with MTW & VI is that they were rushed onto the shelves before they were ready. What we don't need is a half-baked patch to go with them.

If there is still no patch come Christmas, then I'll start whining again. And if all it fixes is the 56 year bug, then I'll be whine central. Until then, I'll wait and play Max Payne and Knights of the Old Republic on my Xbox http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Oh, and carry on writing up my Almohad campaign ( I *may* get it done before we put men on Mars).

[Sir Robin]

Ah... the sublime pleasure of waiting impatiently.

I am glad that CA is making a patch. I actually haven't been playing MTW or VI in a while.

While the 56 curse was annoying but it was kinda fun watching all the AI kingdoms imploding.

It is sad how software is released prematurely. Unfortunately that is way it is.

Scene from Castle Anthrax:
Hottie- "And then the patch."
Galahad- "Well maybe I can stay for a little bit."

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ Aug. 26 2003,15:35)]I would rather have a full, complete, thorough, playtested patch (preferably that adds new features - hey, you can dream http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) that I have to wait 6 months for than a patch that they bang out in 2 weeks that fixes the 56 year bug and little else.

Remember people, half the problem with MTW & VI is that they were rushed onto the shelves before they were ready. What we don't need is a half-baked patch to go with them.
Oh, I could hardly agree more.

But we have to take CA's word on this and expect a small patch that does little but fix the 56 bug. Such a fix does NOT mean the game will be fine and clean, it means it has been done because they noticed we were complaining, not because they found it to be something they could not accept. Again I have to bring in Blizzard, they release patches that fix things I never even knew was there... They are dedicated to the games they have sent out, using a lot of strength to keep them running and making them better.

I normally don't complain that much, but it is surprising that, what is supposed to be a minor patch takes so long (remember they were at it before they told us). It has soon taken the same time as the big patch for MTW. That in itself could be a good pointer that it might be a big patch.

[Longasc]

I think the patch is still not finished because there are many unbelievers among us.

There are so many Japanse here, so many Muslim, Protestants and such people... we need more TRUE CATHOLIC BELIEVERS

There is even one heretic who worships the 56 Years Bug, ToranagaSama http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . Why can't he simply worship the DEVIL like all other heretics...? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

This ill fate has befallen us because we are sinners and do not pray enough, and we say bad words about the Creator (CA). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

I am only a protestant, but perhaps will my prayers be heard, too... -sends E-Mail to God@universe.all-

Another solution might be to search the Holy Medieval Gold Master CD and bury it on the 56. day of the year in holy ground, that means in February 2004... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Qilue]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ Aug. 26 2003,16:53)]Another solution might be to search the Holy Medieval Gold Master CD and bury it on the 56. day of the year in holy ground, that means in February 2004... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Well, I'm a heretic like ToranagaSama, so I say we should sacrifice 56 chickens and 56 goats on midwinter's eve to His Dark Unholiness, Lord Activision.

[Lehesu]

Whatever. I don't even play Total War anymore. Just keeping it on my hardrive until the patch comes out. Doesn't bug me. Got too many other games and too little free time to be really concerned.

Also, as a foot note, anybody been following the controversy over the new Diablo 2 patch from Blizzard. I have, and the patch sucked, with Blizzard saying they were "very close" or "closer to ever" with finishing and than starting a beta that had absolutly shit on it, ramping up the difficulty to astronomical levels, and was filled with all kinds of bugs to the point in which it was, for me, no longer playable or even fun.

I would rather sit in silence than have CA throw at us "closer than ever" phrases at us and than releasing a half-baked patch. The funny thing is, Blizzard has been "working" on this Diablo patch for at least a year now at the fact that it sucks this bad and is so buggy is almost inexcusable for me, a very long-time Diablo 2 player. Blizzard really bungled this one.

[Kraxis]

Well, the Diablos doesn't count there. They have never been good at keeping a line with them. It has been wobbling up and down with those games. To me it seem Diablo has always been a sideshow for them, as if they never really put their hearts into it.

But Starcraft and Warcraft they have done extremely well with, only made a few bad patches for the betas, and no real bad ones for the real deal.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]Also, as a foot note, anybody been following the controversy over the new Diablo 2 patch from Blizzard. I have, and the patch sucked, with Blizzard saying they were "very close" or "closer to ever" with finishing and than starting a beta that had absolutly shit on it, ramping up the difficulty to astronomical levels, and was filled with all kinds of bugs to the point in which it was, for me, no longer playable or even fun.

I would rather sit in silence than have CA throw at us "closer than ever" phrases at us and than releasing a half-baked patch. The funny thing is, Blizzard has been "working" on this Diablo patch for at least a year now at the fact that it sucks this bad and is so buggy is almost inexcusable for me, a very long-time Diablo 2 player. Blizzard really bungled this one.


Lehesu I agree with you wholeheartedly. In fact i think i went one step further. I UNINSTALLED Diablo2 and havent played it ever since the so called patch came out. What Buzzard did to their gamers is inexcusable. I hope CA can learn from Buzzard's mistake . Saying "we are so close" and then releasing the shittiest patch ever AND asking the community to beta-test it is simply taking us gamers for fools. I vowed NOT TO BUY any Buzzard's games ever again. Let's hit them where it hurts them most - their wallets.

Sorry for the rant, but it opened a deep and troubled wound in my heart. Point is, that CA should be responsible for what they do and i just hope they did learn something from Buzzard's fiasco.

NOTE: Misspeling is intentional. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[Old Bald Guy]

Ok, let's get one thing straight. I don't whine. I'm too old to whine. Saying I'm whining is insulting. I have teenagers who have advanced degrees in whining. I do customer support for a multi-national electronics corporation who has made products which have become household names. (Take a walk, man.) I KNOW whining. I am NOT. I answer letters to the Better Business Bureau from customers who've never bothered to call us at all. I'm not likely to write the BBB about a damn computer game. Gimme a freakin' break.

I frankly don't care whether they ever release a patch. I'm playing the game, anyway, working around the bugs that bug me. How many of you who accuse me of whining are still playing, hmmm? Bite me.

I wanted a patch because I cared about the game. I love the game. I'll still be playing the game when you young whippersnappers are on to the next and the next. I've been playing computer games since DOS 3.3, so don't give me this stuff about "in my time." You haven't been around long enough to tell me what you've seen in your time. I've endured a lot of garbage to get CA to give us a patch, and frankly, if we get one, I hope YOU don't. We deserve a patch, because we care about the game being right. You do NOT deserve a patch because you not only haven't cared enough to ask for one, but insult the ones who may get it for you. So, bite me, twice.

(Back on my meds.)

Greg, we don't disagree. I really don't care how long it takes to finish the patch, as long as it is finished when it comes out. I'll be playing this game for a long, long time. I played Civ2 for years and years, and didn't need Civ3 at all. Civ2 was just fine, in spite of things that could stand improvement. MTW is just fine as well. I don't expect to ever get another MTW. No MTW2. And that's just fine with me. Even if I never see a patch for VI, that's ok. Doesn't bother me, anymore. Really. I'm at peace with it. When WesW finally blesses his last mod, that's what I'll be playing for years, because very few games could replace the experience I've had with MTW, esp with Wes's mods. I submit that Wes and his band of renegades care more about the game than the creators, because they've continually improved the game for NOTHING Hoorah for them. Bah on CA, or Activision, or whoever is responsible for the irresponsibility. At least you've given us credit, Greg, for getting them off their ass and doing something about the bugs. Thanks. More than we've gotten from many, sadly.

Thank all you, too, for making this forum available. Had we not had it, we never would have seen the possible patch at all.

The bottom line is this, and my last words on the subject (unless provoked). If you make a mistake, you acknowledge it, and correct it. We had some computers with bad power supplys. We took them all back, at enormous expense, fixed them, and gave a gift for the customer's trouble. While it shouldn't have happened in the first place, the company did try to make it right. The customer spent his/her money for a product they expected to work. It didn't work as they expected, and the company fixed it. We didn't expect them to live with it, nor pay more money for a fix.

Now, if some of you think this has been whining, bite me a third time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

OBG

[Shahed]

Nice post OBG. We ask what is due, and nothing more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]I vowed NOT TO BUY any Buzzard's games ever again. Let's hit them where it hurts them most - their wallets.


Yeah, show no mercy. Blizzard may have brought out only superb games with very good support that are often even cheaper than the shit from other companies for years. But they have screwed up the - what is it? the tenth? - latest patch for Diablo, so they deserve to die a horrible death
Seriously, I didn`t try the latest patch, but how bad it may be, I`ll bet they`ll fix it. And even if they don`t, I`ve bought the special edition when the game came out. I`ve played it now for maybe 500 hours or more. I`m already ashamed because I don`t pay Blizzard any more for it. I mean that amount of entertainment I got from them, I`m practically stealing money from them
But why do I tell this? That`s a forum about Total War not some Blizzard game. But some people are just ungrateful. Would anyone here say that MTW wasn`t worth the money? That it isn`t worth even more money? If you don`t say that, then you owe CA something
When some of you said that they wouldn`t buy RTW if VI isn`t patched, I could understand that, in a intellectual way. I just disagreed about the necessity. But I`m seriously lacking comprehension for this now. Sorry to say this, cause it seems it`s Old Bald Guy`s responsibility that we get the patch (or at least some of us) and I want to thank him for that (if I get one), but he wanted a patch. He`ll get one. He want`s it really finished, but not just the day after RTW comes out. Ok, that`s reasonable. But telling us now what status the patch has, is totally irrelevant, as long as we get a decent patch in time. So what is he complaining about? WHAT`S THE FREAKING PROBLEM?

[Duke John]

"WHAT`S THE FREAKING PROBLEM?"
Fix the 56 year bug and I want more customisable BIF folders. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif For the rest there are only minor problems or game mechanics that are abused by some people.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ Aug. 27 2003,13:58)]"WHAT`S THE FREAKING PROBLEM?"
Fix the 56 year bug and I want more customisable BIF folders. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif For the rest there are only minor problems or game mechanics that are abused by some people.
I would add the reinforcement-bug (annouys me more than 56-years). But that`s not what we are talking about, here, isn`t it?

[Duke John]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought the topic was "Viking Invasion Patch", but I must have misread something. Apologies.

[Urban Legend]

Funny thing was that I was about to post why aren't there people asking when the patch is due just before this thread exploded.

Its the sort of thing one expects to see.

[Longasc]

I think CA should patch Diablo II too. Now that would be really great customer support. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Longasc]

BTW, someone already pointed out.

It was supposed to be a MINOR patch fixing only the 56-year issue.

Will there be perhaps more, a "REAL" patch? This would be the good and acceptable solution to the question why the patch takes so long.

If not, well... ugh... nobody knows what happend, and nobody from CA says anything about the patch right now.

I cannot believe they only said they do a patch to calm the crowd - they are clever enough to know that this would cause REAL trouble here.

[hrvojej]

It's a vacation season, people. Nothing gets done in time (especially if you're from the Mediterranean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).

[Gregoshi]

Longasc, I don't think they ever said they would fix only the 56-bug. I'm sure that one was at the top of the list though.

[Jikahn]

Blizzard is quality... anyone who says otherwise has no perspective. If you have the nerve to whine about Blizzard and Vivendi, then you are probably planning to blow up EA's corporate HQ, relatively speaking.

Developers have to feed their families and most don't want to work for free. If the publisher (Activision, EA, EIDOS, Sony, whoever) says that the game has cost way too much money already and has to be released by X date to make an acceptable profit, it will be released finished or not. People need to start differentiating between the good guys (Developers) and the bad guys (Publishers).

PC games > Console games, yet the costs are comparable. Why? PC games can be bigger and more complex because they can be released in stages so people can spend $60 at first, then $40 when the rest of the game comes out, patching as *profits* allow. That way customers don't have a cow like they would if a perfect product was released at a tidy sum of $120 a pop.

I'd gladly pay it, but most people wouldn't because they don't understand the absurd amount of money it takes to develope complex PC games. (When a video game on a console only costs $50.) Most people don't recognize the difference in resources required to develope Max Payne vs Medieval: Total War.) In fact most people can't even comprehend why they are charged an {sarcasm} outrageous $10-$15 a month to support MMOGs. It's not like the company has to run a WAREHOUSE full of servers and have a dedicated team of computer technicians/programmers/marketing reps/lawyers/hand-holders(Customer Service)...{/sarcasm}

In other words, tell the developers what the problems are and hope the publisher will finance the fix. They find out what the problems are thanks to the thousands of volunteer testers in the PC gaming community. Thanks to sites like this they save a lot of money that translates into a lower cost product. You're saving yourselves money and having fun in the process. What are you complaining about?

Ponder on this:
Medieval: Total War
-Play from the era of the vikings until the discovery of the new world in an historically accurate depiction of Northern Europe, and North Africa
-No patches needed, they game has been fully tested and polished Everything works right
-$130.00

It's a shame that it would never sell... so instead they might split it into 2 parts, and shave off some of the cost because they know that PC gamers can make good testers.

Just my opinion. If you lasted through that, you must be as bored as I was when I wrote it.

[lancer63]

$130 +/- is what local SW stores here charge for a fresh in vogue pc game. 3 months later they lower it to 80-90 bucks.
You have to use amazon if you don't want to get skinned here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Jikahn]

wow thats ... wow. :\ Just one more reason for me to be glad im in the US. I never thought software was THAT expensive elsewhere. Jeeeeeez.

[Lehesu]

Quote[/b] (Jikahn @ Aug. 27 2003,13:03)]Blizzard is quality... anyone who says otherwise has no perspective. If you have the nerve to whine about Blizzard and Vivendi, then you are probably planning to blow up EA's corporate HQ, relatively speaking.
I am not pointing out one mistake and calling Blizzard a miserable failure. I like their other games, it just kind of dissapointed me with the way they strung along their D2 community and than kind of cut them to the quick. Mostly, Blizzard is quality, but this is one instance, among the very few, were they obviously bungled.

[Old Bald Guy]

What am I on about, dear Saturnus? Nothing at all. Please read my post, again. I haven't said a word about it since the announcement was made. In fact, I've continued to play it, bugged though it may be. However, when called a whining, teeth-gnasher, then perhaps I might let slip my gentle nature. I enjoy playing a slow, building game of MTW. But let my enemies attack, and they will be smacked...hard. I play an extremely good defense.

Another thing I wish to clear up. I would not take credit for getting the patch. There were many who asked for it. Many who said, in a calm, rational way, they would not support a company who does not support its product.

Next, I said I don't care when it comes out. I'm playing it anyway.

And, finally, several friends have bought, played and enjoyed the game at my suggestion. CA has made quite a bit of coin from me. If I ask that they support the product I've supported, I feel I'm not asking very much at all, in comparison to the support I've given.

If there is any whining in this, then it is strictly in the ear of the receiver, which is something I can do nothing about.

{I edited severely after finding I'd managed to cause a topic in the Beginner's Forum to be closed. For that I'm ashamed. I should act my age.)

OBG

[Sultan]

Quote[/b] (Jikahn @ Aug. 27 2003,13:03)]Blizzard is quality... anyone who says otherwise has no perspective. If you have the nerve to whine about Blizzard and Vivendi,
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I can agree with Blizzard being pretty much one of the best (at least before being drawn into Vivendi's web of incompetence) but anyone who has the nerve to defend Vivendi needs to check thier own perspective and Vivendi's history. After all not many companies have had a hand in a game recalled from the shelves. Take a good look at Sierra and what happend there after Vivendi took over before you lump them in with people who know what they are doing.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Tell me when was Diablo 2 released...
Tell me how many patches it got already...

then you whine about some problems with the last patch? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

You are spoilled... If the latest patch doesn't work for you then use the old one, or you going to tell me that a game you like so much is unplayable without the last tiny imperceptible little microscopic tweaks?

When a company continues to add new features to a game years, after it as been released, you still whine?

[Kraxis]

Yes, as far as I remember the last patch for Starcraft came out after the release of Warcraft III, more than 4 years are the initial release. I believe it was the ninth patch.

[Lehesu]

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ Aug. 27 2003,19:07)]Tell me when was Diablo 2 released...
Tell me how many patches it got already...

then you whine about some problems with the last patch? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

You are spoilled... If the latest patch doesn't work for you then use the old one, or you going to tell me that a game you like so much is unplayable without the last tiny imperceptible little microscopic tweaks?

When a company continues to add new features to a game years, after it as been released, you still whine?
No, the latest patch for Diablo 2 does indeed make it unplayable for me. They have regressed from 1.09. This thing is so hard now that it really is only feasible over the net, and I mainly only play single. And, if I log on B-net to merely trade with someone, I am going to have to download the patch. I liked Diablo and I am not pissed off that it doesn't add some new shiny bauble. IT ACTUALLY DESTROYS THE GAMING EXPERIENCE Almost a new game now. Better off not even trying to make a patch. Rebel, please check it out and see what I am talking about. If you don't play Diablo than there really was no point in that last comment.

[RisingSun]

Actually, the last patch was the tenth. 1.10. Although it fixed a VERY minor bug with lurkers, it made all previously recorded replays invalid, but did we complain? No, because very small parto the community uses relays frequently, and those who did just installed SC a second time for the replays. Not a big deal. With all the support Blizzard has given us, they are allowed to make one mitake, and it is safe to assume that it will be fixed in the next patch, there being a next patch is also safe to assume.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] ]Better off not even trying to make a patch. Rebel, please check it out and see what I am talking about. If you don't play Diablo than there really was no point in that last comment.


I haven't played diablo in a while now. Not since Neverwinter Nights i think so i haven't tried the last patch. Maybe i'll try it some of these days and see what all the noise is about. Have you tried Neverwinter Nights? There are some really cool mods and the original campaing is HUGE... Somewhat different from D2 because it has a richer storyline and the missions are cool.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Aug. 28 2003,01:56)]No, the latest patch for Diablo 2 does indeed make it unplayable for me. They have regressed from 1.09. This thing is so hard now that it really is only feasible over the net, and I mainly only play single. And, if I log on B-net to merely trade with someone, I am going to have to download the patch. I liked Diablo and I am not pissed off that it doesn't add some new shiny bauble. IT ACTUALLY DESTROYS THE GAMING EXPERIENCE Almost a new game now. Better off not even trying to make a patch.
I must agree with you there... Lehesu,

Diablo 2 changed a great deal when LOD was made, the developers tried so hard to make the game challenging that they destroyed the enjoyment of it at the higher difficulty levels Item Hacks suddenly became widespread because your character only stood a chance in Nightmare & Hell Difficulty if they had the best items that rarely ever drop... And this is only looking at V1.09

I dread to think what horrific changes have been made to the game with their "new and improved patch"... No doubt Hell and Nightmare have become even more impossible for single player

Blizzard's endless patching can get tiresome when they don't have any major bugs to fix... and they are mainly just hack-busting now.

They also have the ability to create endless patches by being their own publisher and not relying on another company such as Activision or EA to give an approval before they do it.

However unlike D2 in VI we know there are problems, the year 56 bug and the reinforcement organising function (all Cavalry always turns up first no matter how you set up the pre-battle screen) spring to mind. So I welcome this patch from CA...

[Wellington]

Wow

I did'nt realise how much 'backlash' my comments of 15th August would cause. Still, let's get this thread back ON TOPIC.

I'm not interested in Diablo or Blizzard. I'm interetsed in MTW/VI.

Also I'm not interetsed in this patch at all I don't give two f**ks whether or not a VI patch is eventually. Nor do I give two f**ks what it contains.

What I'm interested in is WHAT IT CHANGES in some areas - both file wise and folder wise.

If CA never release a VI patch then that's fine by me.
My initial questions of 15th August were just trying to ascertain what, if anything, this patch would change (specifically pertaining to areas that may effect a utility I'm currently writing).

As I'm still awaiting an answer please allow me to reiterate my initial questions (initally posted on 14th August in this thread) -


2 Questions for CA staff -

1) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI folder structures?

2) Will the patch change ANY of the current VI file structures pertaining to maps, models, terrain, trees or backdrops?


If so, which?

Welly

(BTW - 2nd posting of these questions ... sigh&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Longasc]

Wellington, nice questions, I would rather be interested if they are...

3.) ... working on the patch right now???

[A.Saturnus]

Lehesu, I hope you noticed that the current patch for D2 is a beta-patch. The final patch is still to be released, so problems are to be expected.

Old Bald Guy, I should have directed my last post more on this discussion in general and less on you. It was just that you said:

Quote[/b] ]Time's up. We pushed for the patch, which would not have been considered at all had we not pushed. After six weeks, maybe it's time to start pushing again?


That`s where I ask what you want to push for.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Aug. 28 2003,17:27)]They also have the ability to create endless patches by being their own publisher and not relying on another company such as Activision or EA to give an approval before they do it.
Yes and???

So because CA doesn't publish their own games we should just sit back and say "Ohh well"? Hardly

It is exactly the publishers that are the problems here, they don't care whatsoever for the love of game unless it can make money for them, the devs do (professional pride).

[Portuguese Rebel]

Man, just look at what we talk in here while the patch ain't out... By the looks of it the patch will come out after RTW is here... could it be?

[DemonArchangel]

Well, if the patch comes out after RTW, then what's the f**King point?????

[Lehesu]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Aug. 29 2003,16:17)]Lehesu, I hope you noticed that the current patch for D2 is a beta-patch. The final patch is still to be released, so problems are to be expected.
Yes, but they have been saying for years that the patch was almost complete and only going through QA testing. Than they dump this bug-ridden corpse on the community and say "There You debug everything for us" They lied by saying that they were "closer than ever" and than drop this shit on the community and expect us to take as a gift. Hey, it is a patch, isn't it? Give me a break.

[Jikahn]

I'll concede the point on Vivendi's history. I know jack about that company. I always thought they were with blizzard and sierra from the start. My bad. Who was blizzard with before vivendi? Next I'd ask about GOD Games, is Gathering of Developers a marketing gimick or are they really developers gathering. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif... but then id be getting way off topic so thanks for correcting me on vivendi. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[GilJaysmith]

The patch is only a new EXE and changes nothing about the existing folder structure or how it's used.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 30 2003,12:00)]The patch is only a new EXE and changes nothing about the existing folder structure or how it's used.
oooooooooooooh, you're such a tease http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



*braces for inevitable flood of "yes but where the hell is the patch?" type posts*

[Old Bald Guy]

Saturnus, no worries, mate. I don't know what I was pushing for. I guess I was just responding to the revival of the thread, and had wondered what was happening before the embers reignited. The patch really doesn't matter much. It's still a damn good game, regardless of the niggling bugs. We've already found out pushing doesn't get us anywhere, anyway.

Even with the history of support, I'd buy MTW2. I really would. I adore this game. It's the best, most immmersive and replayable game I've ever owned, even more than Civ2. However, it's not enough to push me to buy Rome Total War, when it debuts, because we know the pattern.

Look, and this is directed at all not just Saturnus, it's been May to Sept. without being addressed. No matter what, that is not the way to win loyalty. Recently, I think it was Dell or Gateway, customers were surveyed and it was found the company had higher ratings from customers who had problems solved than from customers who had never called in with problems. You earn loyalty from how you support your product, not just from the product itself. Customers gain TRUST. A company learns from feedback. If we were to say nothing, nothing would change. CA would think it's done the right thing. This habit of releasing a game with glaring bugs and a long time before it's patched--ONCE--would continue.

A glaring bug? How the hell could the 56 bug gotten past them??? It's so freakin' obvious to anyone who has played the game for long at all "Four, five kings die on the same turn? What's going on here?" How could that conversation have not taken place? If something this obvious got past QA, what may get past them in RTW?

I am just wondering, here.

Whatever does, we can be sure it may or may not be addressed, in any kind of a timely manner. May to Sept is forever, in dog years, milk expiration and game history.

OBG

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 30 2003,06:00)]The patch is only a new EXE and changes nothing about the existing folder structure or how it's used.
Great

Many thanks for that Gil. I appreciate it.

Ok, that answers my 1st question, but ... er ...

... what about my 2nd one?

Welly

[einar]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 30 2003,06:00)]The patch is only a new EXE and changes nothing about the existing folder structure or how it's used.
This is a very good notice. It seems that the new patch won't change the loc\spanish\*.txt translation files. I don't want to correct all of these files again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ Aug. 30 2003,07:51)]A glaring bug? How the hell could the 56 bug gotten past them??? It's so freakin' obvious to anyone who has played the game for long at all "Four, five kings die on the same turn? What's going on here?" How could that conversation have not taken place? If something this obvious got past QA, what may get past them in RTW?

I am just wondering, here.
A few good points raised there that CA should take heed of.

Some time ago CA posted a request in these forums for new staff. I suggested a better response may be obtained by requesting unpaid BETA testers, probably from people at the Org. I'm sure many would be willing to get pre-releases from CA and test certain areas to their hearts out.

I'm also sure such a policy would generate a lot more whining via E-mail exchanges between such BETA-testers and CA staff but would provide a lot more "correctness" for the released product.

GilRaySmith, of CA, was in favour. Let's hope he wins the day and ensure that a few CA customers that are really interested in CA's products can assist in this area.

One other thing. A lot of us whinge and whine about MTW or VI, and we'll probably do the same when RTW is released. However, such criticism should not been seen as negative but rather positive. Why? Because if we did'nt give a f**k about CA's products we just would'nt bother whining and we'd move on to other games.

The fact that we whine so much really means that we care so much (Good grief - did I really say that) and desaire the best out of a series that's gives us all a lot of fun.

Welly

[Sultan]

Quote[/b] (Jikahn @ Aug. 29 2003,22:59)]I'll concede the point on Vivendi's history. I know jack about that company. I always thought they were with blizzard and sierra from the start.
Blizzard was under Davidson & Associates thumb at the time of Warcraft coming out in '94. Then they got passed around to CUC, Cendant Software, Havas, and now Vivendi. God knows where they'll end up, nor in what shape, after Vivendi gets done selling it entertainment division.

Bad thing is that Blizzard, Valve, Papyrus, and Sierra have all fallen under Vivendi spell of incompetence to one degree or another with Sierra becoming a shadow of its former self.

[GilJaysmith]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Aug. 30 2003,13:14)]Ok, that answers my 1st question, but ... er ...

... what about my 2nd one?

Welly
Nothing is changing about how any of the files are used, i.e. no changes in file formats.

AFAIK anything modded in VI will work post-patch.

[Mount Suribachi]

oooh Teasing us again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Anyways, for all the slagging off CA sometimes get, may I just point out to all that Gil has posted this at 6pm on a Sunday evening... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 31 2003,12:13)]
Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Aug. 30 2003,13:14)]Ok, that answers my 1st question, but ... er ...

... what about my 2nd one?

Welly
Nothing is changing about how any of the files are used, i.e. no changes in file formats.

AFAIK anything modded in VI will work post-patch.
Many thanks for that Gil. It reassures me enormously.

regards,

Welly

[einar]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 31 2003,12:13)]
Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Aug. 30 2003,13:14)]Ok, that answers my 1st question, but ... er ...

... what about my 2nd one?

Welly
Nothing is changing about how any of the files are used, i.e. no changes in file formats.

AFAIK anything modded in VI will work post-patch.
This is great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Well, Old Bald Guy, I prefer to wait untill the patch is done, see what it does and then complain if it has taken to long. In German we have a saying "talking about unlayed eggs"... you get what I mean?

[einar]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Sep. 01 2003,06:27)]Well, Old Bald Guy, I prefer to wait untill the patch is done, see what it does and then complain if it has taken to long. In German we have a saying "talking about unlayed eggs"... you get what I mean?
Sorry, but, what is the release date for the VI patch, is there any?.

[Drucius]

I don't know of an E.T.A. for the patch Einar.

Perhaps that's the point.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Drucius @ Sep. 01 2003,07:33)]I don't know of an E.T.A. for the patch Einar.

Perhaps that's the point.
Yes , that's the point. As soon as possible, please...

[Gregoshi]

It isn't much, but Gil posted two short sentences regarding the patch over in the MTW forums at .com. Read it here (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm5.showMessageRange?topicID=8420.topic&start=121&stop=133).

Now you know. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Sep. 01 2003,22:39)]It isn't much, but Gil posted two short sentences regarding the patch over in the MTW forums at .com. Read it here (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm5.showMessageRange?topicID=8420.topic&start=121&stop=133).

Now you know. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Thanks. I hope the patch will be ready the next or in two weeks.

[Old Bald Guy]

"Sir, more soup, please?"

What's up with all this deference? When one of the CA guys shows up, it's like you are all in the presence of royalty or a rock star. If anyone dares to take them to task, the heretic gets jumped on. How could I question the great ones? Sheesh. One assumes they get paid for their work, no doubt a LOT more than I get paid to support my company's products. Trust me, if I were to go online to answer questions about some of our problems, I'd get fried.

"We were incredibly busy," he said. You gotta be kidding me. That's supposed to make customers who bought the game feel better? Make them feel better about buying the next game, which is what they were incredibly busy working on? Ha, don't put my money in your forecast for the next game.

I understand. You guys are done with playing MTW, and want to play the next game. You're anxious. You can't wait. Forget doing anything else except RTW. Well, I guess you ignoring what's going to happen, if the past is any indicator of the future. Only this time, it won't be me who is whining and gnashing teeth.

At least they haven't taken time away fixing a game we've already paid for. Any delays, and you can't blame us

Blecch.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]I understand. You guys are done with playing MTW, and want to play the next game. You're anxious. You can't wait. Forget doing anything else except RTW. Well, I guess you ignoring what's going to happen, if the past is any indicator of the future.

That`s simply not the case, mate.

[Gregoshi]

Given how grudgingly Activision okayed a patch, I'm sure it was made clear that the patch is not #1 on CA's priority list - support rarely is, unless it is a major foul up.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ Sep. 02 2003,06:33)]What's up with all this deference? When one of the CA guys shows up, it's like you are all in the presence of royalty or a rock star. If anyone dares to take them to task, the heretic gets jumped on. How could I question the great ones? Sheesh. One assumes they get paid for their work, no doubt a LOT more than I get paid to support my company's products. Trust me, if I were to go online to answer questions about some of our problems, I'd get fried.
OBG,

I like your style http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

You are, of course, quite correct. I've also noticed the inordinate number of Org patrons who exude this deferential attitude. Ok, there is nothing wrong with being polite (my mother always used to tell me "manners cost nothing" ... sigh ... I've forgotton such words on so many occasions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif ), but let's face the facts.

Any requirement for a patch is an admission of mistakes in the original product. If you buy a new car and it has a dent in the bumper/fender what do you do? Do you say "I'll notify the manufacturer/garage and then wait for someone to come around and fix it for me in due course?". Of course not

Having said that the software industry is very different. Why? Because it's totally impossible to release software with no bugs/mistakes in it. Most people understand this. Purchasing software is really a "special case" in terms of purchasing consumer goods. Also, developing PC software is far more complicated than developing other none-PC software. Most PC games have, throughout their lifecycles very few patches, and for anyone who thinks 4 or 5 patches is 4 or 5 too many, I can assure you that most major mainframe packages have hundreds if not thousands of such patches (or Zaps).

However, this does'nt change the fact that you have already paid money for the software and therefore the provider has a responsibility to correct serious flaws in the product.

But, we PC-game consumers should also be reasonable and allow CA to get some feedback for a while and then issue a patch that addresses most of the recognised problems. You certainly don't want to have to install 100 patchs, for 100 problems, over a period of time.

The key to this is to ensure that any PC-game company such as CA has allotted sufficient resources to the testing and support of an existing product, in relationship to the marketing and developement of the next product.

Not always an easy balance, but any 'resource weighting anomolies' within such a balance will always be problematical if the customer base is either too quick to whine, or too placid and will say nothing.

Now, some of us appear to knock CA. Why? Because even though there is little doubt that CA have some of the finest quality design and developement staff in the market, the QA and Marketing dept's appear to be somewhat lacking in the same quality.

So all you deferential types, as OBG so eloquently addresses you, should consider that whilst we should all expect some problems in new releases of extremely complicated software, and we should we reasonable in expecting a solution to such problems, you should also consider that you are a consumer ...

... who has already paid money for a product.

So, whilst we should all be reasonable and understanding, we must also be critical and forceful. Many of the Orgs patrons may fail to realise it but we are not just a hobby-group utilising a website. We are also a user-group that has some influence.

My God. Having re-read that, it sounds like a MLK speech. Hhhmmm ... maybe I should have gone into politics (says he, stepping off his high horse ... again ... and throwing up on the fetlocks)

Welly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Couscous]

Hmmm, Couscous ponders:

What's been going on recently that CA have not had the time to finish this patch??...

Looks to me like 'Time Commanders' has been their number one and absolute focus for the last month or so, and frankly, who can blame them? It's not as if they're just handing the RTW engine to the BBC & saying 'get on with it'. A game engine to re-hash for a tv program & a very tight deadline to get it done.. They'll have had programmers working 24/7 in the CA offices along with techies & programmers working in the BBC studios.

If I'm right about this, is it a surprise the patch was put on the backburner until the Time Commanders deadline was hit?

[Spino]

Quote[/b] ]Nothing is changing about how any of the files are used, i.e. no changes in file formats.

AFAIK anything modded in VI will work post-patch.

As always, a big thanks to CA for the good word and helpful hand here and there, especially Giljay...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Old Bald Guy]

Hmm, I suppose, eventually, they will send customer support to India and Manila, which is where my jobs keep going. Every time I find something to do, it ends up being done for a buck fifty a day overseas. 50% of our jobs in our customer support center has gone in the last year. So, if you have a computer question and you call a support line and get a voice which you cannot understand, that was once my job. You see, I know a bit about customer support of computers. "Get a job in the computer industry and you're set for life." How fast life goes by. Twenty years from nothing to obsolence.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Well, nobody in this business seems to understand customer support. You can quantify quantity, but not quality. However, the customer you have is far less expensive than the customer you have to get. I'd never heard of CA or STW. I read about MTW on a computer website and thought I'd give it a try. I love the game. Hell, I played 12 hours yesterday, Labor Day in the States. Probably not too many are still playing with that kind of dedication. I'm the customer they have. But, I have reluctance now to buy the next game, given the pattern that has developed. I may be the customer they lose.

One may not be much. But rinse and repeat often enough, your job becomes jeopardized. Trust me, in this business, even doing a good job for short money, may not be enough.

OBG

[Executor]

Could the patch change the way the Master Horse Breeder works so that the +1 valor it grants also affects Royal Knights? Right now, it only grants the bonus to Lancers (if playing as Spain or Aragon) yet you can build the Master Horse Breeder in the Early Age, long before you get ahold of Lancers. It'd be nice if it had some use until then.

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Aug. 30 2003,06:00)]The patch is only a new EXE and changes nothing about the existing folder structure or how it's used.
Hmmm, this would mean that faris, jobbagy, etc. still don't leave any corpses... Too bad... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[tuopaolo]

Quote[/b] (Executor @ Sep. 02 2003,19:52)]Could the patch change the way the Master Horse Breeder works so that the +1 valor it grants also affects Royal Knights? Right now, it only grants the bonus to Lancers (if playing as Spain or Aragon) yet you can build the Master Horse Breeder in the Early Age, long before you get ahold of Lancers. It'd be nice if it had some use until then.
Hmm ... I like it the way it is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I think maybe you can mod the game to make the Master Horse Breeder give bonuses to Royal Knights. Not sure though.

[einar]

I've detected a little mistake in the text when the hungarian leader proposes you a marriage with his daughter: The last line in the window says, "King name (the name of the king) of Burgundy"...

Well, it should say "of Hungary", i've checked the loc files and the text doesn't appear there, will this mistake be corrected in the VI patch?...

[GilJaysmith]

I'm afraid none of the above points will be addressed in the patch. Modders feel free to tackle them...

Also: not wishing to sound too tumpy... and obviously this is a free forum with free speech and all that...

But: you might like to consider that one reason why people might be pleased to welcome CA representatives to this board is that our informal visits are the best you're gonna get. CA doesn't have a massive dedicated support staff, nor enough time to sweep the forums 24/7 and hold detailed conversations with you all, make all the announcements you'd like, etc etc. Technically we only need to support our own forums at totalwar.com; anything you see here is a bonus.

Posts we make here are generally on our own time (in my case often at "ridiculous o'clock" in the morning). And what we read online, on our own time and as a favour to the community, we have to absorb not just with the eyes and ears and mind of a CA staffer, but as human beings, who have to deal with its sometimes provocative content without the same latitude to scoff or flame that everyone else tacitly enjoys. It's not the easiest job in the world, and furthermore it isn't even actually our job...

So bear in mind the immortal words of Harry Harrison: "We could have sent an H-bomb through instead of me"... or we could have sent no-one at all. Erring just a little more on the side of politeness won't hurt anyone. No hard sell, tigers; just a friendly tip.

Gil
speaking personally and in no way on behalf of CA or anyone else from CA

[Stormer]

Yeah listen to him guyshttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

he can sneak us out a RTW demo, all in good time gil? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

btw is there a realease date of the patch?

[einar]

And i am grateful for your personal support in this forum GilJay.

[GilJaysmith]

Quote[/b] (Stormer @ Sep. 03 2003,09:40)]he can sneak us out a RTW demo, all in good time gil? ;)
btw is there a realease date of the patch?
lol... you can dream :) I don't know when a Rome demo will appear but that's Dutch's and Knuckles' province anyway.

Release date for the patch: don't know, but I'll try to find out and keep you posted as it moves through the pipeline. (Which makes it sound like some gizmo from the last Bond movie but one...)

[Kraxis]

Thanks Gil.

You mention that none of the small issues presented will get fixed/redone/whatever. But I wonder how far back you mean that... Because there have been plenty of issues brought up and I can hardly imagine none of them would get fixed.

I guess I'm asking for a patchlist... unoficially of course. Like the 1.1 for MTW.

[Wellington]

Gil,

Sorry, but I can't let you get away with that ...


I'm afraid none of the above points will be addressed in the patch. Modders feel free to tackle them...

Also: not wishing to sound too tumpy... and obviously this is a free forum with free speech and all that...

I'm pleased to hear CA approves of modders. Please bear it in mind in the design criteria of your next product.
Tumpy?


But: you might like to consider that one reason why people might be pleased to welcome CA representatives to this board is that our informal visits are the best you're gonna get.

Within The Org, CA representatives have their own special company avator, a special company icon for threads started by CA, and special priviledges that afford all CA staff Senior member status at the Org.

Basically, CA are the only group of people within The Org who are afforded such "special status".

Considering this you then state that your visits are informal. Personally, I can't think of anything less informal.

As for the best you're gonna get, reminds of an old saying. Leopards don't change their spots.


CA doesn't have a massive dedicated support staff, nor enough time to sweep the forums 24/7 and hold detailed conversations with you all, make all the announcements you'd like, etc etc.

A good point, that many of us do recognise.


Technically we only need to support our own forums at totalwar.com; anything you see here is a bonus.

How very convenient.

CA need only, technically speaking of course, support their own forums.

Considering the quantity and quality of posts in such forums this would appear to be a somewhat easy endeavor. I, personally have never posted on the '.com' forums, simply because there rarely appears to be anything of worth posted and it also appears to be quite 'controlled'.

As for the bonus I agree. CA get an immense bonus by perusing the contents of The Org whilst not having to technically support it. I presume that was what you were trying to say?


Posts we make here are generally on our own time (in my case often at "ridiculous o'clock" in the morning).

And posts none-CA staff make are ALWAYS in their own time, often at far more ridiculous hours than you appear to appreciate.


And what we read online, on our own time and as a favour to the community, ...

Favour? Your doing it again Gil.

Please allow me to make it clear to all. CA do NOT peruse the forums at The Org for charity. CA peruse such forums in order to judge feedback, formulate marketing strategies, be provided with a list of bugs that their customers have discovered, elicit ideas, and keep abreast of the TW series marketplace in general.

You know this Gil, and I do.

This community, The Org, has provided immense feedback in many areas for CA as a company.

I'm well aware of how often CA staff log onto The Org to read threads. It does'nt go unnoticed.

It also did'nt escape my notice that CA started a modding forum a few months ago at the offical site. Would you have really done such a thing had it not been for the immense interest CA have, finally, recognised in modding MTW. Is it possible the Orgs modding forum was influential in such a decision?

I'll remain polite, but when CA staff talk of a favour to the community a certain 8-letter word, starting, with B and ending with T, immediately springs to mind.


... we have to absorb not just with the eyes and ears and mind of a CA staffer, but as human beings, who have to deal with its sometimes provocative content without the same latitude to scoff or flame that everyone else tacitly enjoys. It's not the easiest job in the world, and furthermore it isn't even actually our job...

But you've just said your visits are informal. Therefore you never post as a "CA staffer" but rather in an unofficial capacity.

If you wish to post with the same latitude that everyone else enjoys, then the solution is simple. Get a personal membership from the Org and stop posting under the 'offical CA avator' whilst telling us all your comments ar'nt official.

If anyone chooses to engage in dialog, under the banner of a company, then they are speaking on behalf of that company. Period.

As for scoffing and flaming.

Yes, I've seen a little scoffing and I've also particpated myself at time. In your own words obviously this is a free forum with free speech, which is precisely why I choose to participate at The Org. As for flaming?

I've seen no flaming of CA on these forums. The moderators don't allow it and such posts are immediately removed. However, this is'nt the first time I've noticed CA staff appear to be incapable of differentiating between flaming and criticism.


So bear in mind the immortal words of Harry Harrison: "We could have sent an H-bomb through instead of me"... or we could have sent no-one at all.

I prefer the words of H. Jackson Brown: "Don't say you don't have enough time. You have exactly the same number of hours per day that were given to Helen Keller, Pasteur, Michelangelo, Mother Teresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Albert Einstein."


Erring just a little more on the side of politeness won't hurt anyone.

I agree.

If CA start a thread such as this one, and subtitle it using the word "Official", then totally refuse to respond to queries raised in their own thread until nigh on 150 post's, then politeness is certainly a word that springs to my mind. Ignorance is another.

And if you are refering to verbal politeness, then I should'nt need to refer you to some of your own posts in The Dungeon not too long ago in respect of startpos files.

If you ar'nt the Pope then don't adopt a 'holier than thou' attitude.

I suspect a little politeness would'nt go amiss - all round.


No hard sell, tigers; just a friendly tip.

And thank you for it. Allow me to add my own ...

... Practice what you Preach.

One thing I must add. Be careful when using words that individuals might be construed to be patronising. Now it may just have a been a slip of the tongue but let me assure you - we ar'nt all children in here, and I, for one, am certainly no "tiger".

(BTW: for those of you not 100% familier with all the nuances of the English language, 'tiger' is a slang word often used by parents when talking to young boisterous children)


Gil
speaking personally and in no way on behalf of CA or anyone else from CA

If you choose to speak personally in these forums I would suggest you post under your own member name at the Org, as the rest of us do.

You will appreciate it can be extremely confusing for us 'tigers' if you post under your official CA avator, and then try to tell us your comments have nothing to do with CA.

Any posts by CA staff under the official CA avator, as provided specially by the Org for CA, will be interpreted by myself to be posts made by CA - in an official capacity.


Welly


(BTW: before you immediately label this post as criticism and yet more CA-bashing, please compare it to my previous post in this same thread, apply some rationale thought regarding the points I've tried to make, re-read your own post again, and then think about it)

[housecarl]

Sounds very bitter, not altogether sure why.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (housecarl @ Sep. 04 2003,03:59)]Sounds very bitter, not altogether sure why.
Well, as any Moderastor at the Org will tell you, I am a somewhat Jekyl and Hyde Patron.

Does this answer your question? If so, then your next problem is to determine which alter-ego is responding to this post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Old Bald Guy]

Welly, thank you for the post. I hesitated to reply because I didn't want to provoke any further. My reaction was pretty much the same: if you want sycophancy, the Internet is probably not where you want to go. Well chosen word, mate, and no one should harbor ill will toward you. (Unlike what I would have done.)

Gil, take a tip from those of us poor souls in the trenches of customer support. Separate yourself from the company. People aren't mad at you; they are mad at "them." And mad isn't even the right word in this case. We've gotten over being "mad." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Housecarl, would you please quote the "bitterness" or please define the word? I didn't see any of the sort in Wellington's reply. Imo, he didn't rise to well-casted bait.

[Longasc]

Gil is right, it is surely not easy for him and others of CA to read here sometimes. But as Wellington pointed out, some things are sad and bitter even if said in a moderate and calm tone.

The best way to silence critics and put them to a constructive use is to make them ass-kicking beta-testers.

MMORPGs often have open Beta-Tests. Why not a single-player heavy game like Rome: TW?

A version with only a tiny bit of the map but with nearly all options would probably be enough for some basic testing, and according to what bug QA-testers let slip in the past, this would not be the worst way.

How about releasing an late or early beta of ROME, let them flame and find bugs here like hell and fix them before the release?

I know nobody wants to reveal code too much before release, but come on. Why not?

There are many advantages:

You cannot find better critics and testers than a whole community of addicted fans.

Of course, this should be considered AFTER patching VI... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Gil, don`t care about the whiners. It`s when the sycophants start complaining you have to worry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Gregoshi]

Hey folks, let's not go down the "whiners vs fanboys" path.

FYI on CA's "special status": any special status bestowed to employees of CA was done solely by the Org staff with no prompting from CA. The CA avatar and post icon were made by Org staff members. This was done as a service to our patrons to help them understand with whom they are having a dialog. This also identifies them as a "voice of authority" when they provide information about the internal workings of the TW games.

Welly said:

Quote[/b] ]As for the bonus I agree. CA get an immense bonus by perusing the contents of The Org whilst not having to technically support it. I presume that was what you were trying to say?

Considering Gil answered two major questions you had hanging over your head, I think you got a bonus too - as do we all by their continued presence. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I'm sure Gil and the others at CA know what they can and can't say - officially or unofficially - in these forums in order to maintain their job security. I'm sure they also know how to wisely spend their personal time. I for one am glad we are worth their time. They could easily retreat to the .com forums and behind Activision customer service. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif That would be an improvement, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Speaking of the .com forums, I beg to differ with your opinion of them Welly. For the longest time, they were pretty much out of control - a virtual version of the American Old West. Now they've got a sizable staff and are stepping in to stop some of the non-sense a few individuals bring to their forums. I've seen no heavy handedness over there. They have a group of TW enthusiast with different tastes than those of us here. The .com forums might not be your cup of tea, but then these forums aren't their cup of tea either. And some like both forums. It is all a matter of tastes.

Okay, I've banged my head against the wall enough for one morning. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Wellington]

Hi Greg,

I wondered how long it would be before you rose to the bait http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Hey folks, let's not go down the "whiners vs fanboys" path.

The world is not black and white Greg.

Don't you mean "whiners vs pragmatists vs fanboys"?


FYI on CA's "special status": any special status bestowed to employees of CA was done solely by the Org staff with no prompting from CA. The CA avatar and post icon were made by Org staff members. This was done as a service to our patrons to help them understand with whom they are having a dialog. This also identifies them as a "voice of authority" when they provide information about the internal workings of the TW games.

Is'nt that exactly what I said?

If someone posts under a CA avator then they are identifying themselves with that "voice of authority" arn't they? Therefore it makes little sense to issue posts in such a manner and then state they are not replying under the auspices of the said "voice of authority".


Considering Gil answered two major questions you had hanging over your head, I think you got a bonus too -

Quite true, and (as I place myself firmly in the pragmatist camp) I thanked Gil for that.

However, first they are not major questions. As I stated in a earlier thread, I don't give a damn if there is no VI patch. My 2 quesions were based on experience. I don't wish to install VI again, apply the patch, and then uninstall it again because too much that I'm currently working on has changed.

Pragmatism, Greg, pragmatism


... as do we all by their continued presence.

I'm sure Gil and the others at CA know what they can and can't say - officially or unofficially - in these forums in order to maintain their job security. I'm sure they also know how to wisely spend their personal time. I for one am glad we are worth their time. They could easily retreat to the .com forums and behind Activision customer service. That would be an improvement, right?

No one has said they wish to see CA vacate these forums.

What I said was I find it a bit much for anyone to say that CA participate at The Org purely out of the goodness of their hearts.


Speaking of the .com forums, I beg to differ with your opinion of them Welly. For the longest time, they were pretty much out of control - a virtual version of the American Old West. Now they've got a sizable staff and are stepping in to stop some of the non-sense a few individuals bring to their forums. I've seen no heavy handedness over there. They have a group of TW enthusiast with different tastes than those of us here. The .com forums might not be your cup of tea, but then these forums aren't their cup of tea either. And some like both forums. It is all a matter of tastes.

How are we differing?

Of course it's all a matter of taste. I was just expressing my opinion, that being I tend to consider them tasteless.

Heavy-handedness? What I said was it also appears to be quite 'controlled', as you've just confirmed.


Okay, I've banged my head against the wall enough for one morning.

I was going to say "Personally I think you've been banging it for too long", but I won't as you'd probably misinterpret that also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Sep. 04 2003,11:43)]Of course it's all a matter of taste. I was just expressing my opinion, that being I tend to consider them tasteless.
Tasteless? I wuld like an explaination of that.

So far what I have seen is that there are more or less the same points going on here and there. So what you just said is that you find the .org is tasteless? No, I didn't think so.
So, unless you have a good explaination of your choice of word I fear I will have to think of you as an elitist.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Sep. 04 2003,12:32)]
Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Sep. 04 2003,11:43)]Of course it's all a matter of taste. I was just expressing my opinion, that being I tend to consider them tasteless.
Tasteless? I wuld like an explaination of that.

So far what I have seen is that there are more or less the same points going on here and there. So what you just said is that you find the .org is tasteless? No, I didn't think so.
So, unless you have a good explaination of your choice of word I fear I will have to think of you as an elitist.
Its a play on words.

Greg uses the word taste so I add the word less to his root word - this giving it an entirely opposite meaning.

Greg and I often play these little 'games'.

Don't worry about it. It's meaningless

What I orginally said inthe prior post was that I never post on '.com' because there is insufficent content for me. I seldom post in the Main hall also - for the same reasons. Likewise many people in the Main Hall will never post in the Dungeon.

It's not elitism. It's called horses for courses.

[Lehesu]

Jesu Christo. This is why I stay in the Tavern. Whenever a discussion on game support gets twisted around and analyzed word-for-word, things are getting a little serious. Welly, although I appreciate your input and recognize your many hours of service to the community, it may seem at times as if you are a tad over-critical. I, for one, would hate to be on your bad side, because I would have to refine all of my sentences to become the purest incarnation of what I mean, lest you rip it piece to piece and find innuendos. I, for one, have no problem with Gil and the rest making casual statements, without arriving in full CA regalia to the sound of trumpets and criers. I am glad that they learn from this forum, but I don't have an inflated sense of this site's worth to actually suggest that they "support" it.

~Lehesu

(Welly, just my opinion, don't want this turning out like the last little repartee between us) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Sir Robin]

Wow...

Well, wow...

I am glad they are making a patch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I am sad it will not fix everything, even stuff that isn't broken. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

I am glad that some CA guys hang around here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I am sad that they have not created a Castle Anthrax or Life of Brian: Total War yet. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I will wait with an incredibly customer-like sense of impatience for the patch and tax cuts for the poor.

Do babies come with a warranty? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ Sep. 04 2003,20:35)]Do babies come with a warranty? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I have absolutely no idea.

However, 'tigers' certainly don't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Drucius]

As I understand it, the CA avatar is simply there to identify the poster as someone who knows what he is talking about rather than someone indulging in an orgy of speculation. Which makes perfect sense to me and has no sinister overtones. I'm certainly very grateful for these guys taking the time out to support and, in a limited way, join the community...and yes, out of the goodness of their hearts, regardless of whether CA gain from this forum's existence.

[A.Saturnus]

I wish I knew what we`re actually discussing right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Foreign Devil]

Hmm... Its easy to lose track the 10th page in...

Reminds me of the pre-patch announcement VI patch thread.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Sep. 05 2003,13:14)]I wish I knew what we`re actually discussing right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I think the burning questions are the following...

WHEN the patch will be out.
And WHAT it will do

10 pages of posts and it all gets traced back to these two questions on our minds.

[Mount Suribachi]

I think I have to agree with whoever it was that said that Time Commanders will have forced the VI patch to the bottom of CAs priority list... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ Sep. 07 2003,02:15)]I think I have to agree with whoever it was that said that Time Commanders will have forced the VI patch to the bottom of CAs priority list... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Thats too bad. 'Cos everyone and their dog noticed the horses tails swishing in sync.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,


Quote[/b] ]Within The Org, CA representatives have their own special company avator, a special company icon for threads started by CA, and special priviledges that afford all CA staff Senior member status at the Org.

Basically, CA are the only group of people within The Org who are afforded such "special status".

This was about the case when this board was set up. It takes time to optimize the settings, collect tweaks, apply and test them (not always intensive enough, sorry about that Wellington and Efrem da King).

CA members are not Senior Members anymore(there are 32 of such accounts at the moment and I slowly add some more every now and then).

The CA avatar and the CA membergroup are a service to the programmers, but even more a service for all members. The members benefit from it, when (pseudo) CA posts can easily be spotted. The member function will show 9 CA members.

Some staff members have the posticon too (think about asking for extra attention in case the patch is available for download).

Please use the Watchtower to post concerns about how this forum works. Please forgive me: I don't fancy 'sticks', but critics/suggestions are welcome.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Sep. 07 2003,00:52)]
Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Sep. 05 2003,13:14)]I wish I knew what we`re actually discussing right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I think the burning questions are the following...

WHEN the patch will be out.
And WHAT it will do

10 pages of posts and it all gets traced back to these two questions on our minds.
If this is the case then this discussion is just as superfluous as it seems to me, since it won`t provide us with satisfying answers to these questions.
My suggestion: let`s stop it.