Few questions about "unit_prod" files

[barvaz]

I have few questions about the "unit_prod" files and the accompanying translation files that I hope someone can answer. Sorry if these have been asked before but I couldn’t find the answers I was looking for.


- Seems like the VI expansions adds “viking_unit_prod” file but also overrides the “crusaders_unit_prod11”. Does the “viking_unit_prod” used for Viking campaign and “crusaders_unit_prod11” for the Medieval campaign ? If so, why does the “Viking” file contain Muslim and other irrelevant units and “early, high, late” periods ?

- If the above correct, how to tell which units in “viking_unit_prod” are actually used in the Viking campaign ?

- I noticed that when going from MTW 1.1 to VI, “crusaders_unit_prod11” got two extra “fields” in the end of each unit data, additional periods and factions fields. Do these override the already existing ones or are these used for other purpose (multiplayer specific maybe ?) ?

- Where do the translation of the factions stored and how are they mapped to the “unit_prod” files ? The Medieval factions can be understood but the VI factions are “FN_01”, “FN_02” etc.

- Why there are units that have “NO_FACTION” associated with them ? Is there a point to this ?

- Units have “honour level” stat, is this the moral ? What is “moral bonus” then ?

- What is “dojo advantage” ? What is “Samurai” ?


Too many questions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Thanks

- barvaz

[CBR]

Quote[/b] ]Does the “viking_unit_prod” used for Viking campaign and “crusaders_unit_prod11” for the Medieval campaign ? If so, why does the “Viking” file contain Muslim and other irrelevant units and “early, high, late” periods ?


The viking prod file is used only for the Viking era. There were some changes in the Viking expansion as each era now can have its own unit prod file.

The game is still "hardcoded" to have only 3 eras (early,high,late) and Viking uses early era. Dont know why they left so many MTW units in the Viking file..maybe they didnt bother to delete them as it didnt matter anyway.


Quote[/b] ]- If the above correct, how to tell which units in “viking_unit_prod” are actually used in the Viking campaign ?


Its easy to see what units are used or not, as a unit that is not used doesnt have the FN_0x for faction availability.


Quote[/b] ]Do these override the already existing ones or are these used for other purpose (multiplayer specific maybe ?)

Yes last 2 columns are for MP only.



Quote[/b] ]Where do the translation of the factions stored and how are they mapped to the “unit_prod” files ? The Medieval factions can be understood but the VI factions are “FN_01”, “FN_02” etc

That can be seen in the era file located in campmap/startpos folder:

"FN_01" // Irish
"FN_02" // Mercians
"FN_03" // Northumbrians
"FN_04" // Picts
"FN_05" // Saxons
"FN_06" // Scots
"FN_07" // Vikings
"FN_08" // Welsh



Quote[/b] ]Why there are units that have “NO_FACTION” associated with them ? Is there a point to this

For the units that are not used in the game or cant by produced but still used (dismounted knights etc) NO_FACTION is used for that purpose.


Honour step value is for how many kills a unit need to get one valor..I think. Samurai means elite. Dont know about morale bonus (it doesnt mean a units morale as that is taken care of somewhere else in the unit file) Dojo advantage...hm ask someone else :)


CBR

[the Black Prince]

new units added by VI but used in the main campaign, such as sherwood forestors do not appear in the Viking unit prod, as CBR stated, thats purely for the viking era.
these units and their stats can be found simply tacted onto the bottom of the crusader_unit_prod11.txt file.

in this sense the crusader files are not overridden, but simply expanded


dojo level and samurai i thought were thinks related to shugun that gor carried over, but were translated and used in the meieval game? maybe i'm wrong here, but i've never seen a use for them.

No faction units also apply to those units that are rebel only, and can therefore only be obtained by bribing.

[barvaz]

Thanks a lot to you both. Your replies answer most of my questions.


What is still not clear to me -


Quote[/b] ]
That can be seen in the era file located in campmap/startpos folder:

"FN_01" // Irish
"FN_02" // Mercians
"FN_03" // Northumbrians
"FN_04" // Picts
"FN_05" // Saxons
"FN_06" // Scots
"FN_07" // Vikings
"FN_08" // Welsh


What happen to units that are marked as “ALL_FACTIONS” in “viking_unit_prod” ? Will these appear in Viking campaign or only units that explicitly marked with FN_0x will ?


Quote[/b] ]
Honour step value is for how many kills a unit need to get one valor..I think. Samurai means elite. Dont know about morale bonus (it doesnt mean a units morale as that is taken care of somewhere else in the unit file) Dojo advantage...hm ask someone else :)


So, Samurai means Elite, one mystery less.

There is a “honour step” but also a “honour level” stat, as well as “moral bonus”. I guess “honour level” is the moral of the unit (I barely remember reading this somewhere) but what is “moral bonus” then ?

And, does anyone know if Dojo is indeed just a leftover from Shogun or does it mean anything in MTW ?


But you know what puzzles me the most ? Well, it isn’t my place to criticize the company that created the best strategy game of all times but really, how could the same developers who made this great game also create the most useless, clumsy, confusing, disorganized, non standard, pathetically documented with embarrassing spelling mistakes configuration files as the “units_prod” and all the other data files ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

- barvaz

[barvaz]

While I wait maybe someone will answer my previous questions, here is another one I hope will get answered:

How come there are units that in the “unit_prod” file have a blank entry for factions or have the faction set to “NO_FACTION” and I still can build them in a campaign ? For example, as the English I was able to build Fyrdmen, Slav Warriors and Slav Javelinmen although according to the “unit_prod” file I shouldn’t be able to. Does the game have other logic for available units for factions besides this or is it just me misunderstanding something ?

Thanks.

- the confused barvaz

[the Black Prince]

you build slavic units as the english??????


errm, ok then thats weird. some units are set to no_faction, and this means they are only available to rebels and you have to bribe them.

slav troops for the english is a new one i admit, that i think is more of a glitch

[Phatose]

Can you build them everywhere, or just a few specific provinces? The location require condition will seemingly allow anyone to build the unit in the province specified, as with gallowglasses in the regular medieval campaign. Anyone can build them in scotland.

[barvaz]

Yes, seems like all the units I mentioned have a region specific condition for building.

Are you saying that if there is a region condition then the faction condition is simply ignored ?

For Gallowglasses, there is an explicit entry "ALL_FACTIONS" so that explains why everyone can build them in Ireland but is seems weird that simply specifying region will do that. By the way, can Gallowglasses be built by non Catholic factions ? Because it is set "Catholic only" in "unit_prod" file.

- barvaz

[the Black Prince]

region does not overrule faction
some units can only be build in some provinces by some factions, (almughavars for instance)

its just another requirement, culture overrides faction, and building overrides unit (i.e. if you can't build the building you definately can't build the unit)

gallowglasses have a culture filter and region filter

they can only be built by catholic factions in ireland.
same goes for highland clansmen i think in scotland.
slavic units can only be build in some eastern europe provinces by all factions. you simply have to be in the area. its like the new feudal lord training up some locals to join his army

[barvaz]

Quote[/b] ]
region does not overrule faction
some units can only be build in some provinces by some factions, (almughavars for instance)

its just another requirement, culture overrides faction, and building overrides unit (i.e. if you can't build the building you definately can't build the unit)

gallowglasses have a culture filter and region filter

they can only be built by catholic factions in ireland.
same goes for highland clansmen i think in scotland.
slavic units can only be build in some eastern europe provinces by all factions. you simply have to be in the area. its like the new feudal lord training up some locals to join his army





Thanks.

This sounds like a reasonable explanation and actually how I expected the game to behave. What I still don’t understand is that all the units I mentioned don’t have “ALL_FACTIONS” but rather an empty value as the faction field.

The only logical explanation is that the game treats an empty value as “ALL_FACTIONS” but I am not sure all the other units that have an empty faction value work this way (all Viking units, Fyrdmen, Berserkers and others).

- barvaz

[the Black Prince]

maybe those that say ALL_Factions have no other requirement, and those that have a blank under faction have a culture requirement, in which case all factions of that culture can create it.

to be honest i havn't looked, but if my theory is born out, peasants would have ALL_FACTIONS, as would Archers.

[barvaz]

There are 12 units with an empty faction field:
Fyrdmen, PictishCavalry, SaxonHuscarles, SherwoodForesters, SlavJavelinmen, SlavWarriors, EarlyVarangianGuard, VikingHuscarles, VikingKarls, VikingLandsmenn, VikingRaiderCavalry, VikingThralls

None of them have culture restriction and all of them have region restriction.


4 units with NO_FACTION:
EarlyFootKnights, EarlyRoyalFootKnights, DarkAgeRoyalKnights, DarkAgeKnights

No culture or region restrictions.


2 FN_REBEL units:
Berserkers, KhazarRoyalCavalry

Only region restrictions.


Among the units that have ALL_FACTIONS (or specific factions, for that matter), there is no particular pattern, some have culture restriction, some region, some both.

I wonder what's the difference between "NO_FACTION" and "FN_REBEL" and if all the units that have empty faction can be really built by all factions in their specific regions.


- barvaz

[the Black Prince]

those No_FACTION units are from the viking campaign, so they don't and shouldn't show up in a mainstream game i believe.

interesting that the empty faction units are all new ones from the VI expansion. i would say its merely a difference in scripting and that it makes little difference

FN_REBEL are those units only built by specific rebel factions, i.e. the khazars (technically a rus faction not as big as novgorod or the portuguese, who have no unique units)

whereas No_FACTION doesn't appear in the early game at all. they are either vikingunits that weregoing to be included, and tten weren't, or units that didn't make it into the final cut of the game