The Seleucid Empire

[BHCWarman88]

The Selucids rock don't they? Brilliant starting positions, good variety of troops (Scythed chariots and elephants? Legionaries? I'm in...) and alround decent selection of everything. I think I will play these guys next.


Yeah,pretty cool..


"Good afternonn, good morning or good night to all of you, according to the time zone you're living... I start to beg you sorry about my english and to thank you for your patience.

I've played seleucia for a short campaign in medium/medium and i won...Here is what i've done:

The Seleucids are very rich and have a well balanced military power (if you don't piss of parthia until the right time...) You start with a very extensive Empire where the cities mainly those in the east (Hatra and Seleucia) are separated from the main core.What you need to do in the first place is too get some money, wish is an easy task for the seleucid...You can read general frogbeastegg manual and do what she advises to get some money.

No you got money. Use it during some turns to garrison your city with militia hoplites. Meanwhile you got to face some problems...Hatra, Seleucia and Sardis. These settlements need to evolve military to get auto-suficiency...You well need to have in each one a Stable and Barracks until you can use at least, levy pikemen and greek cavalry or schited chariots.In Hatra and Seleucia i find important to build archery ranges for archers...In sardis you have the cretan archers. This is what you have to do to put them military independent.

Now let's talk about WAR!When you get a fine garrison to Tarsus, do the effort to build a little army and move in the direction of sardis and build a fort to defend your most important economical city from Pontus. Let's conquer some settlements now... Conquer Halicarnasus ASAP and Palmyra. Do not worry about the other arabian provinces. You deal with them latter. Create another army and move it to the mountain to a central place from Damascus, Antioch and Palmyra. This army will help you to cut the constant Egyptian attacks...Armenia is problably now running for hatra (They always are)... Do not worry about it... They won't do nothing important if you have a nice garrison in the city. Let them attack...Only sally out the fort in the last turn before the city falls or if the city is facing a revolution. Do everything you can to keep hatra!If you lose hatra you will problably loose seleucia too...If it happens, now big deal, cause you are looking to the mediterranian... Now your big problem!Egyptians. They are realy annoying and are always pestering you...Got to teach them a lesson. Build a Navy, cause you are going to hit them where the sun doesn't shine!Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes. Create a well ballanced army, get your best attaking general and your best spy, clear the way with your ships, and invade Alexandria. If you conquer the city, exterminate the populace, destroy everything you can, especially military buildings. After all you hate them! Retrain your troops if possible before you move to the next city. Send your spy before you, for he can manage to open the gates, and easy the invasion. Continue destroying every thing you can in egyptian settlements, and move to Jerusalem, this time to stay (After all your migthy general needs a reward don't you think?). Start training an army similar to this one but this time you are coming to stay and not to slain every one...Bring forth garrisons to defend youself from surprise attacks when you conquer the city's...Do not worry about culture penalty...When you enter memphis to stay the remaining Egyptians will bow to you! Meanwhile, train a little army to invade cyprus... And then you have won the short campaign...If you want revenge from Armenia, Pontus and Parthia, do the same thing to those factions.

Alea jacta est."



Well Said,
Viriatus..
Pardon my Spelling of the Towns..
I pisses Parthia off Fast, but I massacred them and chase them behind the Mountains Near Seleciua.. Then I got in a Bloody War with Egypt,and I took Sidon,Jeasrulam,and Alexandera and a few other egpytian Towns in like a 25 year time span,and only losing Alexandier in that Time Span.. I am invading the Greece Pesnula, and Took Corthia,Athes and Sparta and Theromloy,and those damn Brutii are tough..

[BHCWarman88]

How you guys Get RTR,by the way??

[Monarch]

How you guys Get RTR,by the way??

http://www.rometotalrealism.org

[Avicenna]

Download it on the internet. Currently, RTR PE is the newest, and requires RTW patched to 1.5. You could also download RTR Gold for 1.2 if you want, but 1.5 should be better.

http://rometotalrealism.org

[BHCWarman88]

ok,thanks m8..

[BHCWarman88]

2 more quick questions m8

Should I get RTR Gold or RTR PE,what is better for me to get??

AND

if I get RTR, could I still play RTR MP and Normal RTW MP, like if I wanted to play Normal RTW one week,and RTR the next week??

[Guyus Germanicus]

To whom it may concern:

I had a very interesting and frustrating combat experience yesterday with Seleucids vs. Parthians. Had worked out an early alliance with Parthia, but they betrayed me and attacked my western city Seleucia with their strong early cav force - two Cataphracts and three units of horse archers. They have done this in almost every game I've played with Seleucids. They go for the jugular early. Last night while they had besieged Seleucia, I attacked their besieging force with a relief force that had 6 jav-cav, three militia hoplites, and 2-3 javelin skirmishers with two generals dressed in heavy cav. (One was the general sallying from Seleucia with two of the phalanx units.) The battle took place at a bridge crossing. The Parthians were positioned right across from the bridge which meant that my crossing to attack was going to be hard contested. I tried to send the jav-cav across the bridge, but they clogged the bridge and wouldn't move across, instead, opting to throw their javelins and running back onto the bridge so that I couldn't "establish" on the other side of the bridge, and couldn't get the cav to just simply cross. :furious3: [It only occurred to me afterwards that perhaps they would have behaved differently if I had turned off "fire at will" and simply instructed them to go across the bridge.]

In any case, after suffering some minor attrition losses, I pulled my jav-cav back across to my side of the bridge and had my three phalanx units push across under heavy fire from the horse archers. Once the first phalanx reached the other side, I charged both my generals across the bridge to engage one of the three horse archers so I could get the Parthian cav moved away from the bridge. The cataphracts went after my generals naturally. One of the horse archers broke. The other two were engaged with my phalanxes but I was able to finally get my 6 units of jav-cav across the bridge. I think I got lucky. The generals routed the cataphracts, which amazed me, but they got some help from the javelin cavalry. Two phalanx units took heavy casualties, about 50% depleted. Jav-cav suffered moderate losses. Two horse archers got away relatively unscathed. But the siege was broken and the cataphract threat was ended. Parthia will not recover. My reinforced army is now besieging Susa.

The behavior of the jav-cav on the bridge was extremely frustrating. I couldn't get them to simply move across. I think I've already diagnosed the problem with the "fire at will" command. But, comments are welcome.

[Phoenix]

Did you turn off skirmish mode for your javelin cavalry? They start with it on and that will cause them to automatically retreat from enemy units that get too close. I never had trouble having them attack with Fire at Will on so I don't think it's that.

[Guyus Germanicus]

I think you're on to something, Phoenix. I think I will test drive your idea in a custom battle when I get home from work. Many thanks.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Phoenix -

Your advice about turning off squirmish mode was exactly correct. I set up a battle in the custom battle option putting two Parthian cataphracts and three units of horse archers on the other side of the Jordan River bridge. I attacked them with six units of jav-cav and one general. The jav-cav got across the bridge in good order because squirmish mode was turned off.

Many thanks.

[Guyus Germanicus]

To Whomitmayconcern,

Have learned to love both the Seleucids and the Carthaginians. There are a couple strategies that both factions, I feel, have to adopt in the early going to survive the "all vs one" predicament both these factions seem to face in their early games. One is simply - buying up mercenaries. Demetrius, the governor assigned to Damascus, has to get up off his duff and slip over the border into rebel land (Bostra's area) and buy the three or four mounted mercenary units available. Invariably, the first real threat to the Seleucids is Egypt. Adding four mounted merc units to the Damascus garrison makes defense of that city more realistic. Demetrius can glide back and forth short distances between Damascus and Antioch to deal with threats to the capital. Likewise, for the Gov of Sardis. He must buy up Cretan archers, slingers, peltasts and Merc hoplites to man his defenses. Then, as soon as practicable, Antioch must send two jav-cav units to Sardis to give it a fighting chance to survive. The threat to Sardis is not quite as severe, I've found, than the ones to Damascus, Hatra, and Seleucia.

Building priorities in the early going are (1) get cavalry stables built in Antioch pronto, and (2) get stables built in Seleucia. These two cities are too far apart to give each other any mutual support if quick threats arise. For Seleucia, Parthia is the immediate threat. The Parthians have one stack of Cataphracts/horse archers that can menace the eastern part of the empire. If you eliminate this threat, you can usually follow up and take Susa. If Susa falls, the Parthians are all but finished. They are cash poor to start with. Take out their best early units and one city, and they're pretty much done for.

Armenia is a bit different. Their cities are much farther away, and they can and will send large stacks at you at regular intervals. I'm usually able to cope on that front by leaking a few units now and then from both Seleucia and Antioch to do a holding action type operation.

Egypt is the tough nut and the biggest threat. Bleeding them down will eventually make both Jerusalem and Sidon vulnerable. But once those two cities are taken, it's the beginning of the end momentum wise.

I haven't quite found the secret of transitioning smoothly to the mid-game yet. I'm refering to getting my cities populations high enough so that I'm cranking out the better units. In my current game I had all of Egypt conquered, Armenia, and most of Pontus but only had two or three cities kicking out LEVY pikeman, one step above militia pikemen. My best cavalry units were Sarmatian mercs. I had plenty of Greek cav and some elephants. But they're not quite as good and as "all purpose" as the Sarmatians. Taking on Rome and their families requires top notch units. But your cities have to be large enough and well-developed enough to crank out the better units. I'm sure I'll eventually find the right finessing of tax policy to pull it off. One recent game, however, I was so cash poor in the early going because the five faction combination fighting me was relentless. I couldn't afford a pro-population growth tax policy because I needed every denarii to fight Pontus, Greeks, Egyptians, Parthians and Armenians all at once. Once some of the war pressure is off, the money will start rolling in, especially if you have Rhodes under your wing. But getting there can sometimes be a crimp on "growing" your cities. It helps if you can capture some enemy cities that were grown well by your opponents. But if that doesn't happen, it's a slow process. After three months of constant play I can say I'm still learning how to make that transition and getting some cities grown whilest I'm fighting off the five sisters - E, A, Parth, TGC, & Pont.

I welcome any comments, reflections or other's personal experiences with Seleucids. I love this faction. They are well-rounded and well positioned for world conquest. Their capital is perfectly positioned from a public order standpoint to make Pontid, Armenian and Egyptian cities easy to govern. Once you capture Egypt's Memphis, the Egyptian cities become even less troublesome and very cash productive, especially Salamis!! Take Rhodes and you get a good healthy trade/cash boost. Take Corinth, and public order issues should be no more than a minor problem for the rest of the campaign. Seleucids are in a better position than most of the other factions for seizing all of the ancient wonders.

more later

[Phoenix]

I haven't played a full campaign with the Seleucids yet but here's what I did in my short game with them.

In Asia Minor I had Alexander hire Cretan archers and a unit of hoplite mercenaries and along with the troops in Sardis attack Halicarnassus in the first turn. The rebels will sally since Halicarnassus has a big garrison but it's easy to bog them down at the main gateway if you rush your troops there quick enough. After that I recruit a few more militia hoplites and hired more mercs and then took Rhodes and Pergamum. The Greeks offered me a cease-fire after I got Pergamum which I took so I could trade with them. After that I took Nicomedia and then concentrated on growing my towns and beating the armies Pontus sent.

With Egypt I also went on the offensive in the first turn, and took Sidon with troops that were available in Antioch and Damascus plus some mercs and the Faction Leader. After recruiting some militia cavalry I went after Jerusalem as well which is rather weakly defended if Egypt doesn't send an army to the area. Once Cleitos comes of age I gave him whatever troops I had available and some mercs and took Palmyra, Bostra, and Salamis with him. Egypt is much weaker after this, and I used the time this buys to upgrade Antioch and Sidon enough to recruit Phalanx Pikemen and militia cavalry. The militia cavalry's javelins work well on chariots so I used them instead of Greek Cavalry against Egypt.

In the East, I sent Demetrius to Hatra and had him hire Sarmatian and Scythian mercenaries whenever they became available. Armenia starts out with a Cataphract unit but they can't build more for awhile and when they besieged Hatra I destroyed it by charging them in the rear with Sarmatian mercs while they were pinned by militia hoplites. Seleucia; I upgraded quickly so it could recruit Levy Pikemen and hired 3 Eastern mercs. The Parthians start with 2 Cataphract units so I recruited as many Levy Pikemen as possible before the Parthians besieged it. When they attacked I placed all my troops in the center and when the Cataphracts got close enough I attacked them with the 3 Eastern mercs to weaken them but after awhile the Cataphracts just routed...I'm sure that was luck, but with them gone the rest of the Parthians were easy to beat. Afterwards I took Susa and Arsakia.

That's as far into the game as I went so far though I'll probably use the same starting strategy when I start a full campaign with them except that I'll recruit some Scythed Chariots in Seleucia.

As for growing cities, the Asklepios temples give a health bonus which is also a population growth bonus so it's good at helping cities grow, but towns can't recruit troops and grow at the same time unless you leave taxes at low, and I'm not sure how well that works...I found that it's best to limit most troop recruiting to cities and large towns close to becoming cities. Upgrading farms ASAP also helps especially with Damascus and the other desert provinces.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Phoenix,

Your strategy and tactics make complete sense to me. I've never sent Demetrius off to Hatra. But if I took out the Egyptians early at Sidon and Jerusalem, I could do that. I usually just use him as the focal point for building a merc army to fend off the aggressive Egyptians. (I usually play the righteous non-aggressive, peace loving empire role and let the other guy start the ball rolling. Then once they attack I campaign until they're dead.) Usually, I wait for the 1st newbie family member or adopted General to come on the seen in the first 3-4 turns and send him to "general" the holding force at Hatra. In the games I've played with Seleucids so far, the Armenians have not committed their one cataphract in the early stages, whereas the Parthians always seem to commit both of their units early to attacking Seleucia, the city.

Perhaps if I took Sidon and Salamis out early, I would have fewer Egyptian headaches later.

Your Sardis theatre campaign makes sense too. I tend to wait until I can reinforce Alexander with a couple of jav-cav before I allow him to go on the offensive. But that's me, being cautious.

You handle the defense of Seleucia differently than I do. I rush to build stables then start cranking out jav-cav as fast as I can. My reasoning being, that if Parthia besieges Seleucia with only cav, I will have to sally to drive them off eventually. I had one bad experience in my first game sallying with what was primarily an infantry force facing horse-archers and cataphracts. I lost my general and most of my defending force. (I think I cheated and restored the game and tried something different after that disaster.) But it traumatized me into concentrating on building cavalry early in Seleucia.

Without mercs, it would be really tough going for the Seleucids.

I haven't tried the "growth" temple yet. Victoria seems to have a one track mind on Selecid temple advice - Dionysus uber alles. I like to build the Hephaestia temple in Antioch and Tarsus to get the extra benefit for troop building. I think I could probably try taking Salamis earlier than I do. Salamis is so close to Antioch that once taken, along with holding Memphis, provides mucho dinaro throughout the rest of the game. Surprisingly, I've never had my flank attacked by an amphibious landing near Antioch by an Egyptian force coming from Salamis.

Pontus gave me my first and only experience, so far, of having a protectorate. In this one game I had bloodied their nose in an awesome battle at the pass just northwest of Tarsus. I had a massive army moving toward their capital just north of Antioch over the mountains (have forgotten the city's name), and had taken Ancrya from them. I had my diplomat offer them protectorate status, and they took it, to my surprise.

One thing I discovered just recently, (must have had my head in the sand), is that the higher levels of port docking facilities you build doesn't just increase the size of the naval unit you can build there, it also increases the sea trade capacity of the port. That double benefit motivates me to upgrade my port facilities even sooner than I was used to doing. Also, I added a mod to the code that was available on the totalwar.com site that allows you to get a public order benefit for building academies, scriptoriums, etc. So, now, whether I have a governor in the city or not, I try to build an academy in some of my larger cities to help with public order. If I post a governor there later, so much the better for both him and the city.

For the most part, money has not been "the" problem for me in the early going with Seleucia. The challenge has always been finding enough reasonably good quality units to maintain a coherent defense for their five front war. (Cavalry always being in short supply in the early game.)

I need to do better at farm upgrades. Your end point is well-made.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

You handle the defense of Seleucia differently than I do. I rush to build stables then start cranking out jav-cav as fast as I can. My reasoning being, that if Parthia besieges Seleucia with only cav, I will have to sally to drive them off eventually. I had one bad experience in my first game sallying with what was primarily an infantry force facing horse-archers and cataphracts. I lost my general and most of my defending force. (I think I cheated and restored the game and tried something different after that disaster.) But it traumatized me into concentrating on building cavalry early in Seleucia.That's interesting, Armenia sent some all-cav armies against me but Parthia never did even though they attacked Seleucia several times before I took Arsakia. I guess they were too poor without Susa.
I haven't tried the "growth" temple yet. Victoria seems to have a one track mind on Selecid temple advice - Dionysus uber alles.Be careful with them, Dionysus temples quickly give family members some very bad traits so try not to leave any family members in the towns with them.
Also, I added a mod to the code that was available on the totalwar.com site that allows you to get a public order benefit for building academies, scriptoriums, etc. So, now, whether I have a governor in the city or not, I try to build an academy in some of my larger cities to help with public order. If I post a governor there later, so much the better for both him and the city.I have Bug-Fixer so my academies give law bonuses as well...made managing huge cities much easier for me.
For the most part, money has not been "the" problem for me in the early going with Seleucia. The challenge has always been finding enough reasonably good quality units to maintain a coherent defense for their five front war. (Cavalry always being in short supply in the early game.)Archers also do a good job of handling Horse Archers as long as they don't use their Cantabrian Circle, which the AI doesn't have them do much AFAIK.

[Empirate]

Concerning Parthians I can only say: use Militia Cavalry to the fullest of it's abilities. And these are far more impressive than anything I ever expected from them! I'm playing my first Seleucid game right now: vh campaign, m battles, vanilla R:TW 1.5. Attacking Egypt like crazy, I somehow forgot that there might be other threats, viz. Armenians and Parthians. Especially the latter have proved more than a little annoying. They moved a largish army toward Seleucia (which they seem bound to do at some point, judging from you guys' experience).

This contained their starting Cataphracts, two generals (the leading one with four stars), three horse archers, three Eastern Infantry, two Hillmen, and three skirmishers. All I had to stop them was my starting general in Seleucia (two stars), three Militia Hoplites, three Peltasts, and four Militia Cavalry. They laid siege, and I could see there was no way I could bring reinforcements this far east, with my main armies occupied directly south of Jerusalem, busy slaying Egyptians left and right.

I sallied forth. The pre-battle-screen rated my chances something like three to eight. The Parthians allowed me time to march my troops out of town in good order (stupid, but the AI always allows you to deploy in piece). I put my Militia Hoplites in a half-hexagon, with Peltasts directly behind them, and the General backing them up. Two groups of two Militia Cavalry each were put far on the left respectively right flank:

........................MH........................
MC.MC..........MH..P..MH..........MC.MC
......................P.....P.....................
.......................Gen.......................

I sent the Militia Cavalry around the enemy flanks, trying to lure away the Cataphracts, who seemed to be my biggest problem. These pulled back behind the main fighting line, and I couldn't get my Militia Cav get to them without being shot at by Horse Archers. So I tried to abuse the AI's skirmishing, charging one Militia Cavalry at one Horse Archer at a time, only to withdraw. This was mainly to allow other Militia Cav a shot at the enemy without being snipered by Horse Archers. I soon realized that in a direct duel Militia Cavalry-Horse Archers, my men fared better - Cantabrian Circle minimized casualties by enemy fire while killing more than a few Horse Archers. I even managed to draw one Cataphract out and get it to pursue one unit of Militia Cav, who eluded easily. Suddenly I saw a chance to strike at a Horse Archer: Some Eastern Inf on the Parthian right flank had panicked due to constant enemy presence in it's flank and rear, and was fleeing, which exposed one Horse Archer. My Militia Cav rushed in, hitting the Horse Archers, who were just beginning to break away to skirmish, in the rear, quickly slaughtering them. At another place, I was able to rout the second unit of Horse Archers only a few moments after. Some enemy skirmishers were beginning to waver due to these losses.

Only my Militia Cav had seen battle yet, and all of their regiments had been reduced to about two-thirds strength. But their stamina held up, as well as their courage. They had spent their missiles, so I had to march up the infantry in tight formation. One unit of Cataphracts, two Hillmen, two Eastern Infantry, and one of the generals charged directly into the Sarissas of three fresh Militia Hoplites. I didn't expect my main battle line (if you can call three units that...) to last more than five seconds or so, but to my amazement they kept standing. The Cataphracts had killed about half their number on my spears, but had broken down the Phalanx, and it was hand-to-hand now, in which my Militia Hoplites could be expected to fare poorly. At least the Cataphracts and general had been brought to a standstill. My general (with Rally turned on, just in case) rushed in and helped out in the melee, while my Peltasts pelted (hence the name...) the enemy with javelins. All of this wouldn't have been enough, but one unit of Militia Cavalry was free now, and routed most Hillmen and Eastern Infantry by charges to the rear. Another Militia Cavalry was then able to hit the engaged Parthian general in the rear, who was slaughtered, which caused the Cataphracts to flee. I let them go and reformed by badly mangled infantry to receive the second charge of another Cataphract and general. These never arrived, though, as both were double-teamed by Militia Cav and my general and quickly made to flee the field.

Militia Cavalry won the day for me. They're a good counter to Horse Archers: Cantabrian Circle minimizes casualties, and also they're fast enough to catch the HA if they have a bit of surprise going for them. Furthermore, the constant threat to enemy flanks they can provide really makes the difference when facing junk infantry that only pose a problem due to their numbers - like Eastern Inf and Hillmen. After standing or marching for a while under constant morale damaging circumstances, the first unit you throw at them will rout them.

After this battle, I have made Militia Cav a staple of my early Seleucid armies, and they have more than this once proven their worth. They're easy to retrain, too, and cheap to maintain. If you lose them, you don't weep, and once the enemy is routed, they round up a lot of enemy casualties you'd miss out on otherwise.

Sorry for the rather too-long post, folks, but I just had to share this war-story!

[Guyus Germanicus]

Empirate,

No apologies necessary. I enjoyed the read. Your jav-cav did, indeed, save the day. I may try some testing using the Cantabrian circle in the Custom battle arena against horse archers just to test drive your experience for myself.

I venture to say that without your judicious use of the jav-cav the cataphracts probably would have gotten the better of your line eventually, but only because you had so few M hoplites. Two more units of hoplites or even a couple more units of jav-cav would have made the combat a little less challenging. But sometimes we just don't have a choice when necessity and circumstances dictate our actions.

In any case, good show!

[ezrider]

I just started a campaign with Seleucia. Had tried previously but kept getting into trouble early on. After completing a the game with Carthage, I gave Seleucia another try and have been successful thus far.
I play on H/VH and have got to the point where I could see myself dominating the near east.

I started out by sending diplomats far and wide, flogging my map, trade rights and alliances for as much cash as poss. I prefer to ask for tribute per turn as this makes a dent in what my competitors can build each turn. I built as much infrastructure(farms, walls, roads traders etc) as poss. trying to bump up my Economy and population. Then I decided to beef up security before I was betrayed by the factions with whom I had allied(Its guaranteed).

I guess I turtled for the first 10 turns or more, but then I had enough decent troops to build 3 half stacks. Using a glut of mercenaries I took Harlicarnassus, then I took Sidon and Jerusalem, as well as having to exterminate the half stacks of skirmisher armies(why??) the Egyptians were sending into the field. General, Jav Cav and my own skirmishers took names since they're the only ones fast enough the catch the buggers.

-I took Susa after I was betrayed. The Parthians chose to remove their garrison and send it to a fort I had build in the pass, north of Seleucia. Go figure:inquisitive: :inquisitive:
-Hatra came under attack from Armenians(betrayal) but it was a token force.
I have yet to take the nearest rebel town, as I am kinda tied up with Egyptians, but once I get my Elphs from Antioch, i'll send infanty from Damascus to assist.
-The biggest problem of them all is the amount of Rebels armies that appear. They strangle trade and are sometimes big enough to be a real problem. Building armies in places you usually wouldn't is a pain.

Hope the campaign presents few challenges now the initial threat is over. Greece will probably be one of those I can really tangle with. :duel:

[Empirate]

In my campaign I have entered more peaceful times now. I had to reduce the Parthians to two provinces (Arabia and the one in the northeast corner of the map) before they stopped annoying me, and of course I killed the Egyptians outright. They hadn't even taken Petra before I was done with them! Pontus was next on the list, and predictably they attacked me at some point, but they never were a challenge for my by-now experienced generals: They fielded mostly fodder infantry, with a few missile cav. Accordingly, it took me all of eight turns to totally destroy them.

Armenia proved a much harder challenge. I didn't have the troops to fight on all fronts at the same time, and they laid siege to Hatra time and again. Once they even managed to take it, but were driven out two years later. By now I had finally subdued everybody else and was able to concentrate on Armenia. The army that had taken the Parthians' capital (right south of the Caspian Sea, don't know the name) was attacked in the field three times before finally reaching Phraaspa. In the first of these battles, I lost my general, who also happened to be my faction leader (8 stars, 9 influence!) to some fugazi chariots who couldn't take the heat. Goddammit! It was such an easy battle, against just a half stack of crap infantry and one very tough Armenian general. They had only lost five men before going crazy. At least they slaughtered most of the enemy general's unit along with my faction leader...
Anyway, I was able to take Phraaspa.

Meanwhile I had built up a second army in the south, which marched up from Hatra and caught the Armenian main force in the open. Their general was six stars, mine was four; they even managed to buy a unit of Sarmatians and one of Scythians right before my nose (didn't have money left to hire them, next turn they rode under the Armenian flag). Furthermore, they had one unit of Cataphract Archers, of whom I had dim, not very nice recollections from one Brutii campaign, and seven units of Heavy Spearmen. I was dismayed to find that these are the equal of Armored Hoplites! I had a nice army with a lot of Phalanx Pike, two Cretan Archers, and a chariot unit. These really made good on the failings of their brethren last year! They totally slaughtered first the Catarchers, then the Sarmatians, and the Heavy Spears proved unable to do ANYTHING to my Pikemen. I totally destroyed a very high-tech army. After that it was mostly mopup, and unspectacular sieges for the last two Armenian cities. The Scythians have since become a little reckless and tried to cross the Caucasus once or twice, but I have established forts in the passes to hold them back.

After I had taken Ephesus, the Greeks finally agreed to an armistice, and trade began again. I have become filthy rich from Aegean trade since, as the Thracians and Macedonians were swayed to trade with me too. The Julii seem to be very powerful, Macedon and Germany are their Protectorates, but neither the Scipii (still limited to their starting provinces) nor the Brutii (only as far as Larissa) have made much headway. Of late, the Brutii have sent some big armies to Greece, and the Greek cities seem to be in some trouble. Probably I should be taking their cities before anybody else does. The Brutii have also landed close to a full stack, led by a captain, right next to my city of Halicarnassus. It might be that after ten turns of comparative quiet, the Seleucid armies are once again in demand. Luckily, I am now able to train Silver Shield Legionnaires in Thebes, as well as War Elephants in Antiochia and Seleucia, and Cataphracts in Memphis. A Hephaestus Pantheon is being built in Alexandria and will provide some very nice exp bonuses to troops produced there (mostly Scythed Chariots for the moment). I'm really looking forward to showing the Romans what REAL Legionnaires look like...

One comment concerning overall strategy: Taking Egypt quickly has proven a good one, but not as critical as I thought. It's equally important to get some quiet in the east and north (Pontus, Armenia, Parthia). That way, you have your back free to attend to more mediterranean options. I STRONGLY recommend allying with one of these, preferably Armenia, for they are hard to get to, and try to orchestrate it so these factions fight each other. If that is not possible (diplomacy still doesn't work very well for me), attack all of them and reduce their city count. Taking a capital quickly is usually enough to cripple them forever. So you only really need to take three to five cities, but take these from all of them equally. Then they are so small they don't pose a threat.
Oh, and take Salamis quickly. The trade income with Tarsus and Antiochia is very nice!

[ezrider]

I am having trouble with thos Armenians. They determined to get Hatra but I had have a pile if militia hoplites there and have recently fought them off easily.
The problem is that there is no natural strike point. They are very far away. I take your point on Salamis, although I can't seem to raise the surplus units to send over. The Egyptians are putting up a good fight and I have recently defeated 2 full stack armies(my spy showed me another on the way). That kind of nonsense needs to be stopped "tout suite".

to Empirate, What year are you in?? You seem to have many high tech buildings. I have nothing like that.

[Empirate]

It's around 240 B. C. in my campaign.
Actually, I have only been teching up recently, and my biggest cities are highly specialized. I've spent most of my gold every turn on building, only training a small military, never more than I needed. I stuck to mostly first-tier-troops, as I didn't need Greek Cavalry (everything they can do can also be done by Militia Cav, and those can skirmish), Levy Pikes are not better than Militia Hoplites (though they beat them one on one), and Phalanx Pikemen were too expensive. I've only recently begun to include chariots in my armies, as well.
So most of my campaign so far has been pretty low tech, but now I'm finally earning the money to go high tech on a bigger scale.

[ezrider]

I've been building quite a bit as well. I have tried to maintain a hightech army but my cities dont grow fast enough to get the 2nd and 3rd tier buildings I would like. I have produced greek cavalry and I have to say I'm not impressed. I do prefer levy pikes to militia tho. Theres more of them, they have armour and their spears are longer. Using elephants quite effectively against chariots. I really didn't think they'd be any use at all(they've run amok more than once) but I've killed more than one family member with a "Dumbo Rush".


I do have a tactical question...

*In Dennis Hopper voice*

"Pop quiz, hotshot. If Hatra has been seiged by a full stack of Armenians(4 HArch, Gen, Samarians, 6 hillmen, 6 EInf and 2 peltasts) with 9 Battering rams and you only have 8 units of Militia, 2 archers, 4 Militia cav and 2 units of peasants, what do you do Hotshot, WHAT DO YOU DO!?"

:charge: OR :hide:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I've been building quite a bit as well. I have tried to maintain a hightech army but my cities dont grow fast enough to get the 2nd and 3rd tier buildings I would like. I have produced greek cavalry and I have to say I'm not impressed. I do prefer levy pikes to militia tho. Theres more of them, they have armour and their spears are longer. Using elephants quite effectively against chariots. I really didn't think they'd be any use at all(they've run amok more than once) but I've killed more than one family member with a "Dumbo Rush".


I do have a tactical question...

*In Dennis Hopper voice*

"Pop quiz, hotshot. If Hatra has been seiged by a full stack of Armenians(4 HArch, Gen, Samarians, 6 hillmen, 6 EInf and 2 peltasts) with 9 Battering rams and you only have 8 units of Militia, 2 archers, 4 Militia cav and 2 units of peasants, what do you do Hotshot, WHAT DO YOU DO!?"

:charge: OR :hide:

:idea2: Shoot the hostage in the knee?

[Empirate]

I think you'd stand a good chance if you dare a sortie. Depends on the stars of the Armenian general, though. But the following setup should work: Put your Militia Hoplites in a half-hexagon or anyway in a slightly rounded formation, like a buckler. Advance on the enemy. Meanwhile your Militia Cav sallies out on one wing, keeping closely together. Try to get some shots in at Hillmen, but it's far more important to take down the enemy Horse Archers. Gang up two MilCavs on one of them and attack, that should take care of them. Try to pincer them between your MilCavs. Steer well clear of enemy infantry and especially enemy heavy cav in the process. Keep your general directly behind your Phalanx troops. That way, the enemy heavy cav will be drawn into your spearwall. Once the Horse Archers are gone, see to it that the enemy attacks your Phalanx. Lure them in with MilCav if necessary. Then bring your Cavalry around the flanks, and double-team Hillmen and Eastern Infantry. Coming from two sides, even MilCav should break them immediately.

All this requires a good bit of micro, especially regarding your cav. Don't expect more than half of them to survive, but they will be instrumental in your Heroic Victory!

[Guyus Germanicus]

I like Empirate's creative suggestion, EZ. I have noticed on several occasions that the AI seems to enjoy impaling its heavy cav on a porcupine of sarissas. Strange tactics the AI entertains at times.

I think I like Seamus's suggestion too. :)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Mil-hops are, arguably, one of the best units in the game on a cost-benefit analysis basis. Try to fight that attack force with and equivalent number of Roman or Punic town watch and you'd better make sure they have their life insurance up to date.

I'd take them on in the streets. Horse Archers, like chariots, just do not have the flexibility they need. You can sometimes even dry-gulch one with a running mil-hop coming out of a side street behind them -- can you say shish-ka-bob?...I thought you could -- and really hammer the assault force.

Plus, the square at the end really lets your hoplites et. al fight w/o morale worries -- really ups their value in a scuffle.

I've read numerous comments on the guides and Colisseum about not even bothering to defend a gate when you have a goodly bunch of spears and tight streets to work with.

[Nepereta]

ok heres my first post and these are my opening moves on campaign v hard battles medium.

Turn 1:

1) sent 2 militia hoplites + general to helicarnsus (start siege constructing ram)
2) sent militia cav units + 2 generals to nearest egyptian settlement(start seige constructing ram) followed closely by as many hoplites, peasants skirmishers to antioch and the egyptian city.
3) sent 1 milita cav + hired bedouin cav (near selecia) + general to nearest parthian settlement (start siege + constructing ram)
4) sent diplomat towards pontus
5) started on construction of temples ( askeplios in every settlement with the exception of antioch hephatus) barracks in selecia.
6) sent spy north towards parthian territory
7) built hoplites where I could
8) rose taxes as high as I could.

Enemy turn.

Enemy sallies in parthian city. However managed to kill all the enemies here due to large general + bedouin unit + milita cav ( ps horse archers + slingers + eastern general are v weak in melee) did a massacre! NB early on simply make your general unit 2 men wide and stick them on the wall. Not many arrows will reach you. Soon as they open the gate rush them and kill the inital units guarding the gate. They should all rout quickly!

Enemy sallies in halicarnsus. Ran my general + 2 militias to the gate. militas formed a V. Killed most of the enemy but lacked capability to break the enemy at this stage and scored a draw in my favour.

Turn 2.

1) with the anti-egypt army I overun sidon ( I think thats its name) with minimal losses. You can't beat using 2 generals vs early units did yet another massacre once this place was conquered
2) moved those generals + milita cav towards jerusalem followed closely by accompanying hoplites (started constructing another ram)
3) lacked at this stage a ram in helicarnsus bolstered that siegeing army with mercenary units (merc hoplites, cretans, rhodians) combined and returned milita hoplite remnant to nearby city for retraining.
4) with monies I constructed farms everywhere ( the selecia bonus is sweet! I want money + growth so all these settlements can churn out militia hoplites ASAP) with the exception of :
parthian city: archery range ( I need archers to deal with HAs in the field)
antioch: practice range ( I want archers eventually in egypt too)
the city that gets hit frequently by armenia ( this has a wall in construction)
5) sending diplomat closer to pontus.
NB:
My reasoning behind bee-lining for archers is as follows. Greek cavalry and Levy Pikemen don't offer much extra capability beyond that which can be acheived by militia hoplites and militia cav and beelining for the stages beyond that aren't going to come to fruition any time soon. However I envisage archers+ hoplites to be very effective early on. I hope by turn 6 and turn 9 to have very effective archery production. Which I can use combined with milita cav, generals + milita hoplites to create a balanced force also the harder egyptian fights that are going to start coming soon.
6) building hoplites where the population lets me
7) send spy to check on parthians.
Turn 3 (to be continued)

[Nepereta]

turn 3
1. finished of halicarnusus simply occupied (it was small and I have no governers in places I'd like to populate) sent this army north to make an attempt on the city opposite byzantium ( I forget the name)
2. finished off jerusalem (exterminated) I killed a small loitering egyptian army
3. diplomat made a trade agreement with pontus now heading to the greeks
4. spy has spotted an oncoming enemy army from the north containing catas.
5. armenian loitering near bostra (town to the east of antioch) I think I might lose this town in the next few turns.
6. built watchtower to the south west of jerusalem to keep an eye on the egyptians.
7. built hoplites where I can afford the population and a jav cav in antioch.

Now I am not sure what to do. I think the armenians will attack bostra in the next turn since its poorly defended fortunately for the wall I have a little breathing space. Also I see 2 egyptian half stacks heading my way. But I think any battle in the desert will be a bit messy and produce a few casualties. Another major concern is the potential soon demise of my faction leader. He is currently a great warrior with good leadership and one silver chevron so he really can smash the enemy when he hits em.

Theres the parthian stack coming down with the catas in so its pretty tight atm. I am confident I can either beat the parthians or the armenians. I may have to take the loss of of Bostra on the chin for a while in the coming turns. Its only defended by one peasant.

At this time I really have nothing with which I can relieve bostra perhaps going cav heavy in selecia would of been wiser and perhaps building roads.

[Nepereta]

several turns later:

I have conquered egypt after fighting a large egg army 'Kivan'? luring chariots onto hoplites using generals seems to be an effective way of dealing with them.

I use generals + milita cav vs archers+slingers which then attracts chariots

I have also conquered the second city of the parthians and making inroads on the armenians by using my army that started from selecia.

I managed to fight of 2 attempts on bostra by the armenians.

My halicarnsus army has taken the greek city to the north of halicarnsus want to jump to Rhodes however lots of pirates around there and my navy keeps getting routed.

CONSOLIDATION

My plan is to finish off armenia , rhodes and kydonia and then complete turkey by wasting the pontus in capadocia, then all those odd cities in arabia need taking. Then I am going to work on completing my trade infrastructure ( almost entirely funded by farms atm!) I'd also like to increase my numbers of generals and governers(never had time for any governers so far since all generals have been busy in the field) maybe by earning some uber money I can bribe a few into my faction.

I plan on teching up to cataphracts, phalanxs and artillery and start thinking about greece and rome.

I hope another 10-15 turns is enough to do this.

I want to take some time on consolidation so I can face better roman armies when the time comes with better elite units when the time comes.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Master Nep,

Fortunately the Seleucids have the Hanging Gardens wonder which promotes farm productivity which in turn promotes farm profits. In spite of that, I'm surprised that you are able to put off economic development of your cities for as long as you have. More power to you on that. Seleucids do start out in a reasonably good cash situation, partly due to the fact that they start with 6 cities. And, it takes time for them to develop a campaign situation where they can start building up their navy. Often times, given the four-to-five front war situation I face when I play the Seleucids, it takes a lot of denarii to keep the armies perking. I usually supplement my forces with mercs - the camel archers, arab cavalry and bedouin warriors. I prize mobility over the more slow moving Mil hoplites. I've gotten burned by the Parthians with armies that were short of jav-cav. I try to keep a roving army around Seleucia that has at least 6 jav-cav in the ranks along with jav skirmishers. My Sardis General, Alexander, I usually buy four units of mercs - merc hoplites, cretan archers, skirmishers, and Rhodian slingers.

Of course, you moved quickly against the Egyptians from the start. Zapping Sidon and Jerusalem from their side of the ledger gives them a serious economic setback. At that point, it's your 8 cities to their 4, if they haven't captured anything from rebels like Bostra or Petra.

The Greek cavalry are admittedly not as robust as Roman equites, but I have found them very effective teamed with jav-cav at wearing down and then crushing enemy line units. But the key to gaining an early advantage in mobility against your many foes is to build the stables and cav stables in Seleucia and Antioch, respectively, asap. At least, that's been my experience. And my way isn't the only way, for sure.

You can pick up some adopted faction members occasionally by fighting your battles without faction members as generals. If you win an odds long battle or even an even odds battle, you might get a captain promoted to general. So, don't be afraid to post a "high influence" general in your cities to promote wealth and stability. You might can gain a general in a field promotion "victory."

Sounds like you're doing well, Nepereta.

[Nepereta]

I think striking Parthians( next to selecia), Eggies(sidon) and helicarnsus in turn 1 is the way to go. I think with the parthians (and armenians) you have to do as many city battles as you find humanly possible this negates a lot of their skirmish power. The bedouin+ general + militia cav attack on parthians always causes a sally that can be exploited. Its a fairly tough battle though. I think I differ from the mainstream a lot due to the fact I have literally no static or wandering governers still after 10 turns or so. Many people will settle their faction leaders and heirs into government. I don't think this can be afforded in an all out hell for leather rush tactic. Also with regard to management I have been always thinking of trying to get my faction leaders 'victor' trait sky high more influence like this is heroin for the masses.

2 units of 40 heavy cav with as many as two silver chevrons ( loads of selecid retinues seem to be sheild bearers or sword bearers bossting the combat effectiveness of the generals to great levels) are an absolute killer as time goes by. btw I am incredibly conservative with these peeps although I have lost 1 heir already due to dreaded phalanxs that managed to turn at the last moment.

I have razed a few cities now and I think perhaps in hindsight it was a little bit of a mistake in places. Although its meant I haven't slowed my momentum. For example I am now leaving jerusalem and sidon relatively fallow since their populations aren't near the recruitment safety zone.

Pontus attacked me but I have their counter almost in place going to delay the rhodes island invasion( which has been complicated by pirates) and use those forces to start wasting pontus whom I believe only have 4 settlements.

Cash really isn't a problem. I have tended for on the smaller cities health temple -> farms and due to 3 massacres by turn 3 I haven't had any cash issues at all. Also lacking in goverment ( I manage all my settlements as a game option) means I don't really worry about negative traits springing from low taxes for boosting up population.

The few ports and paved roads that have sprung up and the rudimentary trade network that has begun to grow means my growth is accellerating hard due to the food imports coming from somewhere. 8% growth currently in alexandria.

[Nepereta]

also I think a rhodes island invasion is best combined with massive sea trade which I don't currently have. I will work on getting a number of ports prior to getting the collosus ( which I understand has decaying effects)

[supersalsa]

I played a game on V hard/V hard, i can usually do this skill level quite easily but i was getting absolutly thrashed I only had antioch and it garrision and about 6 plalax pikemen left. so i train a ship and sent my pikemen to rhodes, then sardis (I think this the place on Crete) then finally to Kydonia. In each i started training navies instantly and after about 10 turns I was able to launch a naval offensive destroying all the egyptian and roman ships in the area. On these 3 islands trade was brilliant and after another about 10 turns I had enough military to attack the Greek mainland (they were still in full war with the Romans at this point. I swept up through macedonia and ended up stopping at the top of Italy. The Greek cities are in a much better location than my former one's and the seleucid military is I think the best in the game later on. So I was doing v well and I was going to go through with it and win until I downloaded a patch and all my old saved games stopped working. ~:doh:
:focus: It a good strategy if your losing badly. Just retreat to the sea.

[Guyus Germanicus]

supersalsa-

Sounds like in the early going of your game you got zapped by the five front war that the Seleucids are prone to. Definitely naval superiority is the key to victory. Usually the Seleucids, for me, get a late start on developing their naval arm because all my resources are dedicated to fending off my neighbors. Necessity of the vh/vh apparently forced you to go for the island hopping strategy. If I were forced to island hop, Rhodes would definitely be a target. Money is such a key to victory and the Seleucids have a better leverage on that at the start of the game than many of the other factions. They control six cities at the start as well as the Hanging Gardens wonder that boosts farm production/profits and the Temple of Diana/Artemis wonder that reduces temple construction costs. Grab Rhodes and you boost naval trade. Grab Halicarnassus and you reduce building construction costs again. Once you get the Egyptians under control and take Salamis, that city can really add to the positive cash flow too.

I think you might be able to improve your chances in the early game with the Seleucids if you construct stables in Antioch and Seleucia very early, AKA, start construction within the 1st two turns and in the meantime crank out lots of jav-cav from Antioch to supply your armies in Hatra, Sardis and Antioch. It usually takes about four to five turns before your neighbors can field any kind of an army to be a threat. So getting the cav cranked out early gives you a mobile resource to meet those early incursions. In three turns you can be producing jav-cav in Seleucia, in four you can start producing Greek cav & elephants in Antioch. If you slip Demetrius, the Gov of Damascus, across the border into a rebel province you can buy three cav merc units. This gives you a formidable defense force against the Egyptians.

In any case, it sounds like you've got the hang of things.

Welcome aboard! :2thumbsup:

[ezrider]

I am in the process of crushing the greeks and have taken all the actual "Greek" cities. They've got that one between Thermon and Athens, anyway, I had to fight Spartans. They are the most overpowered unit of all time, They dont die.
I charged a unit of Cataphrachts into the back of them and didnt really do much damage. They didn't even rout, well not immediately.
Thats totally unfair. One unit on the walls of Sparta(interestingly enough) killed a whole pile of my Phalanx Pikemen. I'm glad I killed them all. That was the most annoying thing I have encountered in the game so far.
Horse Archers also grind my gears. I've killed off Armenia and Parthia have only got that northern province. I cannot be arsed fighting any more HA's. Scythia can do what they want. I'm not getting involved.

The Bruttii have started getting cheeky. They landed a small force of troops in Rhodes but didn't attack. Eventually they ran off. I think I will have to fight them soon while they are still Pre Marian. I have silver shields, Catas, war Elephants and all that jazz so I reckon my Military is the highest tech out there. I have also become disgustingly rich and have started giving all the barbarians huge gifts of money to see what happens.
I gave the Scythians 20 grand last turn. I hope to prop up all the loser factions against the Romans if possible. Sound familiar? If you replace the word Romans with ....

Something I will do is try and join in on AI vs AI battles. Is that possible? I mean can I command my assistance personally? It'd be heaps of fun, coming to the rescue of my Macedonian/Barbarian cronies against the might of Rome and kicking their asses back to Italia.

[Empirate]

I just finished my Seleucid campaign. After a decently tough but also very interesting beginning, taking Egypt, then Asia Minor, then the Parthian stuff south of the Caspian, then Armenia (those guys were annoying! Coming after Hatra again and again and again...), I built up for a few turns. Then I invaded Greece, first only to repel some largish Bruti armies that were moving against my Macedonian allies. Then the Greek Cities declared war and attacked my highest tech army, which was standing near Athens. They must have attacked that army five times, using up all their deployable military in the process. They stood no chance against a mix of Phalanx Pikes, several triple-silver-chevroned Cretans, some War Elephants, some Cataphracts and some Scythed Chariots: I absolutely hacked their Hoplites to pieces. Against Spartans, just use longer spears!
Quickly mopping up southern Greece, I also brought two more high tech armies in, and these put a stop to (anyway belated) Bruti expansion. I gave huge sums to the Macedonians, and these just lasted long enough for me to consolidate Greece and refit my armies with fresh troops and commanders. After that the Julii (largest Roman faction) pushed them back. The reds had around eight to ten full stacks they sent into the Balkans in one large and two smaller waves. I defeated a good part of them using the general that had already destroyed the Greek military - he had two gold chevrons and ten stars in the end...
Marching into northern Italy from the east and landing troops near Tarentum, Croton and Capua in the south, the roman factions didn't stand a chance. I took them all in one large sweep. I had been blockading the port of Rome for so long the Senate hadn't even been able to upgrade to post-Marius troops before I took out their army! This was one of the easier battles of the campaign. My lead in tech was so huge I fielded only Silver Shields (both kinds), War Elephants, Cretans (gold weapons, many many chevrons) and Cataphracts (silver weapons and armor, many many chevrons...) against poor outdated Romans. They still used a lot of Hastati, as I had conquered so quickly the Marius Reforms had only taken place some six years ago when I had all of Italy and Sicily. Rome was the fiftieth province to fall, and that was that.

On a final note: the Seleucids are the faction with the most versatile and powerful military. You get it all: powerful melee infantry including pikemen AND Legionnaires, very powerful cavalry, chariots, elephants, easily recruitable Cretans and Horse Archers, just everything. What you can't train you can either have as mercs in abundance or don't want in your troops anyway (town watch, anybody?). All this is well worth waiting for. And you don't have to wait so very long: I was finished with my campaign by 199 BC, and enjoyed quite some fights with my über-elite troops like silver shield legionnaires. And if somebody is trying to tell you that your early units suck, I don't think so.
Militia Hoplites are one of the best first-tier-infantry out there - better than Town Watch, of course, but also better than Iberians, Warbands, what-have-you. Militia Cavalry are awesome! They totally own Equites if used rightly. Their skirmishing abilities were a lifesaver against the Parthians and Armenians, besides they're fast and can catch and defeat Horse Archers. You'll take losses, but they're very easily retrained. Scythed Chariots are expensive, but are available with only a basic smith's workshop and can really wreak some havoc with enemy cav: I used one fresh, non-upgraded unit of these to destroy Armenian Cataphract Archers, followed by a unit of Sarmatian mercs. The chariots lost three, the Armenian regiments routed at one-third strength!
So, take your basic units and conquer Egypt, and after that you're set! Money won't ever be much of a problem, and your army just about can't lose!

[Sun of Chersonesos]

Being the seleucids can be quite troublesome, you got these annoying Pontics who wont listen to any diplomacy, you got these egyptians who literally never lose a game, and you got Parthia bullying Armenia in the north, it's Chaos, however which way is best to attack? South or north? well i believe you should attack egypt to the south, the reason for this is... well let's put this into perspective, the seleucids can beat numidia, and usually carthage... consequently if you can go for a foothold in the south, near Siwa then it's very hard for you to get attacked on that side, believe me, the carthaginians dont come marching down to attack you. But if you go north and beat armenia and pontus; There's Thrace which could become a threat on the other side, greece could come in to the scene, and also barbarians could decide to attack you, the scythians own almost all of the northeast. If you can own Egypt,Syria, Babylonia and eventually north africa then you will own all of the south, and you will have a good preparation against attacks from Parthia, Armenia, Pontus and THE SCIPII

[Neon twilight]

Hello there

Here is a small guide I wrote for Darthmod, I guess it's still usefull in vanilla because some geographical/units contexts are quite the same. Maybe you'll find something intresting there.



Introduction
Seleucids is they greatest empire after the death of Alexander, they've rich territories and an incredible choice of troops. But when you starts the empire is vulnerable, extended and surounded by multiples ennemies, this guide will help you (I hope) to rebuild Alexander's empire. The main difficulty of a seleucid campaign lies in your starting choices and how you deal with all your agressive neighbours as you often have to fight on two or tree side at time. Once you're sorted with this you'll be unstopable, that's why this guide is quite short. I like to play a camp as long I've a challenge and I often give up if it's becoming too easy.

Like in every campain, don't hesitate to use a lot of spies and watch towers to see the moves the ennemy, it's crucial. I also recomend you to train yourself to play a phalanx army supported by cavalry in custom battles just to train yourself at maneovering this slow but deadly infantry force. I also appolgy for all my horrible english mistakes, :sweating: it's not my main language.

Good starting choices :
Your starting economy is very good but your situation isn’t, you’ve got many neigbours the Greeks, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia and Egypt. You’re allied with egypt but don't except to keep them away for too long. Pontus will not bother you in the early game and often ask for an alliance, same with Armenia. The greeks are weak in asia minor so they're you first target. Finaly prepare to hold the parthian assault.

Economy :
As you've a lot of money you can build what you want in each city. At first build ports an roads to enchance your economy but don’t forget baracks to be able to construct better pikemen than the levies who aren’t very efficient on the field. As you've a good income don't tax to much your cities, let the population grows this will give you access to better units faster.

Army :
Your strating forces are is mainly composed of week phalanx units, milita hoplites and light javelin cavalry, not very impressive especialy when you have to face parthians cataphracts and horse archers or greek hoplites. Hopefully you've access to a wide selection of mercenaries : arabs, persians, cretan archers, thracians, cilicians ect...

As you know the seleucid army is phalanx based and has to act with the alexander anvil and hammer tactic to be efficient.
You basic army sould be composed by a good cavalry force, a massive phalanx on the front and some lighter units to support the flanks supported by archer/peltast fire. Peltast can aslo be used on the flanks to rain a shower of javelins in an already engaged ennemy :innocent: .

You must gather your forces to protect yourself from all sides, try to have 3 armies wich are ganisoned or near those cites : Seleucia, Antioch and Halicarnassus. I suggest to keep one levy pikemen unit as garnison in your other cites.

- Halicarnassus force :Lacks of cavalry but has to powerfull mercs such as cretans and hoplites for flanking duty. They're you conquering force.
- Antioch force : Has few cavarly unit a better phalanx and has access to persians mercs wich aren't bad for flanking you phalanx. Building an haras quickly give you access to the elephants so don't hesitate. They're your guarding force against Egypt and parthians and sould not move too far from Antioch. The simple pesence of this large force near you border can keep egypt away for a time.
- Seleucia force : This force must a least hold the parthians, but phalanx as you can expect is realy useless against horse archers and vulnerable to arrows. As they have larger shields milita hoplite is better to hold a rain of arrows and still good against cavalry, so build them. Don't forget to recruit Syrians archers.

Strategic moves :
Don't hesitate, take Rhodes it'll be easy and the collossus will enchance your naval economy. On the east, keep your antioch force near your border and don't engage egypt. If you're lucky parthia will not attack you and will concentrate on armenia first, use this time to gatther you forces. Continue to take the greeks and rebel cities to get an other nice wonder to help your developement. You better troops are coming shortly, just try to stay alive long enought.

Time to test your valor :
Now you've built your forces and extended in asia-minor. Armenia is being destroyed by parthians or pontus, egypt has build larges armies and now they look at the rich guy wich has four wonders and a lot of money : you :tooth: .

Against egypt : If you want to have an advantage when facing egypt, uses your money well a build a powefull fleet. If you gain control of the sea you'll be able to protect your ports and blocked egypt's ones. Both empire have a rich sea trade, controling the sea will lead you to the path of victory. When you have control of the sea you can strike the island Chippria (spelling ?) with a your hallicarnassus force or a small part of it. Don't hestitate one second to hire elephants mercs, yes they're expensive but very powerfull too, both empire can afford them so try to have them on your side. With this you'll be able to easly beat egyptian forces with the seleucian anvil and hammer (see the tactics).

Against parthia :
Stay on the defensive use a lot of archer (Syrians) and take thier very bad siege ability to your advantage. Stay in your city and uses your hoplites to hold thier fire and protect your archers, your general can be an usefull cataphract killer too. Let'em waste thier forces and loose cataphracts. once it's done strike back as hard as you can before they can rebuild, siege thier cities with your vast armies to secure the babylonian region.

Pontus/Armenia :
In my game they were very weak and remained realy easy to beat, so nothing special to say about them. Just keep a good force in asia minor to keep them away.

Battles or the part I like the most :jedi:
The Seleucid army is one of the best of RTW and Darthmod, you have heavy cavalry, phalanx, legionaries, good mercs and... ELEPHANTS ! :rambo: just need some horse archers to be perfect...

In early combats against non-horse archers armies :
The phalanx, is the core of your army but it manoeuver slowly but it's truly a moving wall. A phalanx has to be mobile I mean waiting your ennemy to flank you is a bad idea, just march towards him like alexander did and engage. The best way to do this is to no to attack but simply marching your group trought the ennemy and push the stop key before they engage (it'll helps with the current phalanx buggy behaviour). An important thing to do and that was used in real life by phalanx armies, is to mass the cavalry on one flank traditionaly the left and use your best/elite phalangite on the right as they're strong enought to hold the ennemy.

A phalanx never wins a battle alone, it have to be well supported by a more moblile force, cavalry is ideal but not realy present in your early game except mounted javelin men. Pordromoïs aren't useless, yes charging with them is pointless unless you're sure the ennemy will imediatly break. They sould not be used against parthians unless you'll like to waste your troops. But against egypt they can harash the ennemy cavalry with thier javelins and threaten thier infantry hitting them hard on the back as they're already engaged with your phalanx, never underestimate to power of a javelin especialy on a roman's bottom :laughter: . They're also good like all the light cavalry to kill routing soldiers, try to have at least one unit of them for this "noble" task .

Also the phalanx has to be supported by infantry, you can use mercenaries with spears to react to cavalry attacks. But you can also use peltats... you know guys armed with knives and javelins, just to the same thing as the mounted milita to an already engaged ennemy unit and watch the power of the dark force. Instead of the anvil of the hammer you've got the pike and the toothpicks :yes: ! I suggest to make them holding the line in close formation if they're charged, once the inital shock is gone just retreat, it's better to loose 50 peltast too keep your phalanx healty.

Elephants are also crucials, you can have the lighter quite early in antioch, they have to be placed on one of your flanx acting like heavy cavalry, let them charge when your phalanx engage the ennemy and watch them flee like rabbits. Place some infantry behind them to follow and support them once they've break and ennemy formation, I use arab sabremen and thracians for this duty.

Against horse archers :
Fighting horse archers on open ground with a phalanx is pointless, the AI maybe stupid sometims but not enought to charge your phalanx from front with horse archers. Use long range archers, use hoplites instead of phalanx and try to be as defensive as possible. Doing a shiltorn like formation with your army can be usefull in some situations too the best is to avoid fighting on open ground.

Advanced army :
Finaly you've acces to a good troops like heavy elephants and cavalry and better phalangites. You have enought money to purchase an incredible army : my prefered build is to have a good phalangite line, with one elephants unit on each flank with arbarian sabremen (can be remplaced with legionaries) for support and compagnions massed on the left as the seleucus guard the right. Nothing will resist you.

The final word :
Once the babylonian region is secured and the sea is yours, invade egypt with your elephant supported amies. Gatther a force to deal with pontus in asia minor, and finish the parthians in the arbian sector to have one corner of the map free of ennemies. Your power will easly grows as you conquer the richest region of the game and gain acces to nearly all the wonders. Dont' forget to keep the population grows to allow your cites to develop. Once you've finished conquering all the middle east and egypt you'll be unstopable and you've won the short campaign.

[Aisis Julius]

i am playing rome on med and hard. this the start of my second camp.
my first start as selcuid empire i got crippled very fast.
my nice nice with the other faction was no dice sense they broke the ally deal and attack.
The second i am now playing i churn loads of militia hoplites 10 in each town.
antioch i built wall and infantary type intill i could build the phalanx guys
in short for some reason it this keeps the other other factions but Egpyt from attacking you.

[Fighting-Till-Done]

Did not see this in anything i read, But there is alot. If you hit "ALT" when attacking with the Cata Cav, they switch weapons and are way more effective against armor(i.e. other Cata and the Romans). It helps me out a crap load, and would help level the cav war vs Inf....

[Roman_Man#3]

yes, it is ther alternate attack, (a mace), hence the "alt"(or just a coincedence). A lot of people realize the alternate weapons of units. Many units have them, and yes, i think they would be very useful against not only roman infantry when you go to war with them, but against pharoah units of the egyptians, specifacally the archers, as -even with added damage to armour- the pharoah spearmen will still mow you down, so stick with those dreaded archers.


that reminds me. i did a funny custom battle once. i think it was 10 catties against 10 pharoah gaurd( even though i prob had 20 catts). i put them all in wedge, then arranged all the cats in wedge formation into one giant wedge formation, and made them all charge at once into this one gaurd. as the others turned to hit the first couple of catties, the other catties broke off and hit them in the side. it took some gusto and ragu, but i smeared them into the ground. i say ah boo yah.

[Fighting-Till-Done]

To be honest, i have been playing this game for along time and only realized recently about the "ALT" attacks. So i am sure that there are some people out there that are not aware of this attack. I used it with archers and inf, but never knew that the cav had this option as well. It was simply to inform those who did not know of this attack or option of attack....

[Captain Pugwash]

This sis a great faction. The only real problems is taking on and defeating Rome. It appears cash is not the problem, quite the opposite and with too much cash comes corruption even with A1 bureacrats. the economy goes into freefall just as rome becomes aggresive. I can defeat them on the field but cannot prevent their cities from rebelling before i can track them all down in the german lands, thereby eliminating them all. rebels i can handle. the game ends in stalemate. with their rebellions comes an unfair army of hi tech, gold stripped and armed soldiers produced beyond their means and finances. I then spend my time defeating them one by one until another city rebels and the cycle repeats. This scenario becomes tedious and kills the game. I get the impression its the AI being determined that rome will win in the end.

has anyone actually conquered all the roman factions?

:wall:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Conquered as in extirpated? I never have. I've whacked 3 of 4 pretty regularly, but one of them always seems to be based beyond my sphere of attack -- and I've never wanted to get the whole map one color like some folks have done.

Marian armies are a good challenge to fight. Even with Eles and chariots, they take a lot of killing.

[jhhowell]

This sis a great faction. The only real problems is taking on and defeating Rome. It appears cash is not the problem, quite the opposite and with too much cash comes corruption even with A1 bureacrats.

You can turn the cash surplus to your advantage. Extensive use of bribery should keep your treasury below the 50K corruption point most of the time. Have diplomats with your frontline armies, and more diplomats stationed around the empire to bribe away rebels. If you have allies (Carthage, say), may as well dump 1000+/turn on them too. I never got around to pushing diplomats out to donate money to the Gauls, Spanish, Germans, or British, but that's certainly an option.

My experience was the same as Seamus Fermanagh, Romans were easy enough to knock out, though I stopped playing when I achieved the Rome + 50 province victory condition. Exterminating large captured cities far from your capital should avoid the rebellion problem you mentioned. Rome or Syracuse or wherever won't do much to you with only 4000ish citizens left.

[Phoenix]

This sis a great faction. The only real problems is taking on and defeating Rome. It appears cash is not the problem, quite the opposite and with too much cash comes corruption even with A1 bureacrats. the economy goes into freefall just as rome becomes aggresive. I can defeat them on the field but cannot prevent their cities from rebelling before i can track them all down in the german lands, thereby eliminating them all. rebels i can handle. the game ends in stalemate. with their rebellions comes an unfair army of hi tech, gold stripped and armed soldiers produced beyond their means and finances. I then spend my time defeating them one by one until another city rebels and the cycle repeats. This scenario becomes tedious and kills the game. I get the impression its the AI being determined that rome will win in the end.

has anyone actually conquered all the roman factions?

:wall:I think the easiest way to keep money down is to just keep building more armies and navies...if you're not using them on the front then you can still keep the extra armies near the cities that are giving you trouble so you can put down rebellions quick.

As for the rebellions, try building Asklepios temples and upgrade them to the highest level as quickly as possible. In my Seleucid campaign, I built Asklepios temples in almost all of my cities and never dealt with a revolt.

[Lord Comnenus]

Seleucids is the best faction you can ever have mainly cause they have the most diverse units to choose from, Chariots will be a must in a big ass army why? cause they are best suited in killing cavalry outflanking you. Elephants, keep training them as soon as you get them cause they will do the fighting for you while your phalanx pikemen sit around watching :) Cataphracts, this guys are so realiable, Seize Egypt, before it becomes a major threat, ally with the armenians then declare war with either pontus or parthia. then if you finished the 2 then go for Armenia then jump in to greece and the rest is childs play since you have a firm base n the far corner of the map you can train massive armies to take in ROME!

[Roman_Man#3]

That strategy is all good and well, but you have to be able to survive the first couple of turns.

I try to build walls and a basic barracks to train militia hoplites first. Hoplites, and later pikemen, are great defensive units. PLug the streets leading to the town square with two units, or more with hoplites, depending, and try to cover every street, except the rear ones. You could leave one to a road in the rear ones. I have broken so many full stack pontus armies with about 6 levy pikemen it is not even funny. take out egypt first, and then go from there. Try to get sidon as quickly as possible, then move south as quickly as possible. Try to have even levy pikemen in your initial invading armies, because there long pikes can take out other early spearmen no problem.

[guineawolf]

Alliances are only good for dragging other nations into your wars through sneaky actions in any case, like I said I have no idea what effect they actually have on the liklihood of ones enemies to attack but I'd wager its not much.

But good point on the diplomats, that was something I didn't take into account when making my comment, the AI does indeed get more sneaky with agents on higher levels, something to look out for.

The answer though is speed, no matter how smart the enemy AI is it can still only produce one unit per city, per turn.

In fact the blitzkrieg tactics are so damned effective that I've stopped using them for some games, my enemies never even get to build their higher end units and the games end too quickly with too few battles. Takes alot of the fun out of it really. Something to take into account if you're in the game for lots of fun. ~:)

the A.I only attack their neighbouring cities,mostly,so never allied with your neighbours,only allied with your neighbours's neighbours so these "allies" will hit your enemy back that will save your cities form your enemy siege

[guineawolf]

i only got 1 tip for those find out enemy siege are very annoying(they stop you from army production and trade income),just remember 1 thing,attack always the best defence,try to send an army to siege nearest enemy city,then enemy army will simply lift the siege and go for their city try to take out your siege army.This trick is also useful when you try to lure enemy army to pack a fight,if you win,you will destroy their income and military strength at the same time,that will save your time.And at the time you siege their city,that city's military production is halt,trade income is cut,their nearest army have been lure to your siege army(of coz,you can send many army to surround their cities at the sametime,same effect as blockcade their port)
Even that your siege army have been defeat,it still take time for enemy armies to turn back to your city.:2thumbsup:

don't build navy at early game,just spend all of them at armies,only armies can take cities

[Calgacus]

Chaps - quick question. Playing as the Seleucids, I've managed to befriend Parthia, knock out Egypt and to keep Armenia and Pontus at bay. Unfortunately the Greeks don't seem to be respecting my brand of Hellenic culture and keep sending armies to attack the Tarsus and Hatra sectors. My question is how, with an infantry base of militia hoplites/ levy or phalanx pikemen, can I deal with armies composed of hoplites/armoured hoplites? Even pinning them with infantry and then charging cavalry into their rear doesn't provide a particularly clean solution (it is Greek cavalry though, so I probably shouldn't be surprised) and even worse, it is nearly impossible to hold them at bridges (usually rather a good way of defending an area with few troops) because they are largely impervious to arrows from the front and flanks, and will simply walk through any number of pikemen or militia hoplites. Even the Silver Shield pikes only seem to hold them up for a limited time.

I'm really not looking forward to the post-Marian Romans showing up...

[rvg]

...My question is how, with an infantry base of militia hoplites/ levy or phalanx pikemen, can I deal with armies composed of hoplites/armoured hoplites? Even pinning them with infantry and then charging cavalry into their rear doesn't provide a particularly clean solution (it is Greek cavalry though, so I probably shouldn't be surprised) and even worse, it is nearly impossible to hold them at bridges (usually rather a good way of defending an area with few troops) because they are largely impervious to arrows from the front and flanks, and will simply walk through any number of pikemen or militia hoplites. Even the Silver Shield pikes only seem to hold them up for a limited time.

I'm really not looking forward to the post-Marian Romans showing up...

Pin with Phalanx, flank with Elephants... even Spartans lose formation and subsequantly die if flanked by Elephants.

[Poulp']

even levy pikemen stand a chance against hoplites, because the grey have longer pikes than the yellow.
they can usually hold until the cavalry comes to the rescue, just make sure your line don't go crazy (sometimes, phalanxes just loves to present their flank to the enemy...)

if you can't push them back at a bridge battle, let them put a foot on your bank so that you can attack them on 3 sides: form a 3 sides square and wait; meanwhile, have your archers shoot the opponent's archers, levy and phalangites are really vulnerable to missile fire.

now, when you think the opposing hoplites' morale is going low, send some melee infantry to finish the job (mercenaries or legionnaries) and make sure your pikemen hold their ground just in case the enemy general decides to charge in.

edit:

wrote too slowy, I was answering to the previous poster

[Calgacus]

Thanks for the advice, guys; I'll see how the elephants pan out.

[pockettank]

for me the seleucid empire was a piece of cake i allied with everyone around me exept parthia beat them sown then egypt armenia and ponut allied against me so i beat up egypt slowly then pontus and armenia :laugh4: i moved to Scythia then on over to thrace then the roman brutii :thumbsdown: they were nastier then egypt :egypt: so after beating them up i killed dacia then germania then britania then moved in to the Julii till i made it to rome and beat it :2thumbsup: afterwards i conqured the last of the map with Carthage going out last :whip: (They were my allies since i started the game :clown:

[Test112345]

how are you people playing this?

after like 10 rounds pontus, parthia, egypt, and numidia were ALL fighting me (and maybe another i cant think of)!

should i be keeping my taxes very high early on or should i keep them low? and is building farms a good idea?

[Stuperman]

taxes as high as they will go (blue face), farms are a good idea. go for levy pikemen over militia hopelites, preserve your elephants. Get alliances before you start attacking other factions (i.e. ally with pontus and armenia before you go after egypt).

[Test112345]

nevermind

[GM1940]

I'm being driven absolutely batty by the Selucids, in spite of all the juicy money and troop options. And it isn't the Egyptians, it isn't the Armenians, it isn't the Parthians, it's... the blasted rebels. I just can't stand pulling off fantastic just-barely-saved-my-jav-cav victories against one of my various malefactors only to see another :furious3: rebellion crop out of nowhere in my territory. I know I certainly never had so many in my various games as the Julii.

I thought perhaps the difference was the provinces having natively higher unrest chances, or else the public health temples being not quite as effective as the Jupiter-line of Law + happiness temples. So I went ahead and kept my taxes at 'normal' so that all of my provinces except Seleucia had 180%+ public order - and still the infernal rebels come up! I take it, then, that I might as well use my normal practice of cranking taxes up as much as possible while still maintaining >100% public order... But blast it, I really do not enjoy all of this continual explicable cleanup behind my lines in happy provinces when I have much bigger things to worry about.

Are any of the rebellions 'scripted?' Is there no solution other than crossing one's fingers vis a vis timing?

I hate, in a 4x game, ever relying on luck. Selucids sort of strike me as being the "England 1419" of EU2, in that if you consolidated all of Anglo-France and won the 100 years war, you were a superpower, but if you simply got unlucky with revolts or early battles, that became impossible - unless you saved and reloaded, or relied on luck to get you a fantastic result in a minority of games. That sort of thing doesn't appeal to me. Anyway, appreciate the good advice in this thread, particularly that on the effective use that can be made of cavalry early on.

[GM1940]

Loathe as I am to change the game around, I modded down the base brigand/pirate percentages, and sure enough, things are looking pretty peachy for the Empire. Egypt's last city is under siege, Parthia is building Igloos in their northern town I can't be bothered with, Demetrius is well on his way to being deified, etc.:2thumbsup:

[Centurion1]

Sometimes you just gotta love the seleucids.:2thumbsup: I was playing them and conquered the whole eastern world russia to egypt. And i didnt lose a single Battle. :beam: And im no magician when it comes to battles, but the flexibility really works for me. Any idea how the seleucid AI always seems to lose to the Egyptians. I know about wealth and all that but the seleucids areen't paupers either!

[GM1940]

I imagine it comes down to geography and autoresolving. I think militia cav and militia hoplites are much better commanded personally (because of phalanx and using the cav to disorganize the enemy) than the autoresolve would ever give it credit for. And the Seleucids, even played by a cagey human are pretty much doomed to fighting Parthia, Armenia and Egypt every game before teching up. With Pontus and the Greek Cities there on the borders too.

Then comparatively, Egypt has to worry about... Numidians. And other than being far too dorky to play, they've got almost everything the Seleucids have at low and mid-game, and less reliance on 'trash' units the autoresolver doesn't probably like.

No disrespect to my 'not quite peasants' vanguard, of course, I've got all of Asia Minor, Egypt, Parthia, and the East now, and my battle line is still cheap & cheerful Militia Hoplites. Today I wiped out, to the last man, a 670-sized army of Pontus' horse with 200-odd militia hoplites and oddsorts while defending an Anatolian town from assault - I had a great relief army coming but the besieging army forstalled me. Anyway, huge corpse-pile built, I actually felt like the enthusiastic cheesy greek accent herald should have kept raving a little bit longer after a victory that heroic. I mean, my army must have cost 1/6th of the enemies, tops.

[guineawolf]

No disrespect to my 'not quite peasants' vanguard, of course, I've got all of Asia Minor, Egypt, Parthia, and the East now, and my battle line is still cheap & cheerful Militia Hoplites. Today I wiped out, to the last man, a 670-sized army of Pontus' horse with 200-odd militia hoplites and oddsorts while defending an Anatolian town from assault - I had a great relief army coming but the besieging army forstalled me. Anyway, huge corpse-pile built, I actually felt like the enthusiastic cheesy greek accent herald should have kept raving a little bit longer after a victory that heroic. I mean, my army must have cost 1/6th of the enemies, tops.


pals!same as me,using the militia hoplites,i will try to change all my seleucid regulars from phalanxe pikemen to militia hoplites after the successfull conquest of Thracian campaign just only militia hoplites.:2thumbsup:
My thracian army form by 30000 militia hoplites and about 10 units of militia cavalry for taking out archers purpose.....

you can own 100000 militia hoplites with just 62500 denarii each turn....for me that can group into 5 army group,for 20000 each.Quite enough for both conquest and defenses.:yes:

[I of the Storm]

Sometimes you just gotta love the seleucids.:2thumbsup: I was playing them and conquered the whole eastern world russia to egypt. And i didnt lose a single Battle. :beam: And im no magician when it comes to battles, but the flexibility really works for me. Any idea how the seleucid AI always seems to lose to the Egyptians. I know about wealth and all that but the seleucids areen't paupers either!

The AI Seleucids lose because they mass produce militia hoplites and those are - while extremely useful in the hands of the player - terribly underrated in autoresolve battles. Plus the Egyptian army has a lot of chariots in standard cavalry strength (54) in it and chariots receive a huge autoresolve-bonus. That is the exact reason btw. why the Britons almost always own the Germans.

The Chariot bonus is so imbalanced, that the Seleucids will fall to the Egyptians, no matter how you beef them up in the descr_strat.txt. :no:

[Centurion1]

Do you think its worth it to go with silver shield pikemen over phalanx pikemen, and as to chariots having the advantage, whenever i play britons auto-resolve usually goes against me even if my army is huge and i have heavy chariots, maybe its chariot archers because seleucids have scythed chariots too.

As too militia hoplites they are good early game but if you get serious with the greeks and macedonians later their longer pikes will rip you apart. Sort of like the egyptians early units phalanx compared to the Seleucids.:2thumbsup:

Still think seleucids kick butt and if in right hands are unbeatable.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Never enjoyed the Selkies.

Love the varied unit roster, since with Rhodians and Cretans for purchase you have a very flexible list and can craft to choice.

In campaigns, never got to use the roster much as you're at war with Egypt, Greece, Armenia, Parthia, and Pontus early and constantly. You never have time to build an army or establish anything before you are off to piss on the next fire, so you end up with a hodge-podge of mercs, milhops and milcav supplemented with a few good units whenever a city has time and funds.

By the time you have this sorted out and a few of these folks crushed or weakened and forted off, you have new wars with the Scipii and the Bruti....and still no time to properly develop and grow your cities up to the level to produce all those really cool units.

So you wax the Romaoi after some hard fights and counter punch into Carthage, Greece and Italy using an army of mercs, hoplites and cavalry and just when you finally get to cataphracts and armored hefalumps you've won and the game is all over except for a few provinces of mop up.

Rather anti-climactic really.

[GM1940]

Solution, then, would be to not be totally ruthless in expanding, wouldn't it? Sacrifice a little world-conquering efficeincy to tidy up and build and organize shiny armies before wholeheartedly tackling the Romans? I'm sitting Caucases-Bosphoros-Aegean/Cyrenica-Siwa in 253BC with Silver Shields and War Elephants coming on line and I'm thinking while I mop up Macedonia I'll have time to send one or two really primo stacks by the time I get into things with the Romans.

It's true that Armoured Elephants and Silver Shield Legos are not going to be used as much as might be really fun, but even playing as the Romans I have switched to using -Early- Legos instead of standard ones just because it's such a pain not to be able to retrain armies in cities that don't have higher than an Army Barracks. Regular legos and even more so, praetorians, just strike me as a logistical hassle compared to the advantages they confer.

So, extending that analogy to the selucids, it's a bit of an extravagant approach to even expect to use (2 turn) silver shields as line infantry, let alone those sweet, sweet grey legions. It seems like a small price to pay for having such a fascinating array of light and heavy cavalry, chariots, multi-flavour phalanxes and multi-flavour elephants (after all, basic elephants are early game stuff).

And although I absolutely swore by Hastati and Legos (and probably wouldn't have gotten into Seleucids had I realized where their legos were on the tech tree) I have really gotten into the Phalanx-and-Cavalry tactic. I strongly suspect it leads to more catastrophic triumphs on average since there is a large complement of pursuit cavalry in even the smallest functional Seleucid army.

[GM1940]

(Naturally, right after I say this, the stinking Romans attack me. With Hastati.)

[Centurion1]

The phalanx cavalry relationship is tenuous at best. I feel that all it does is disorganize my lines, but i do admit its near imposssible to beat archers and it is impossible to beat horse archers with a phalanx. Doesn't mean i have to like them however. Chariots SUCK:furious3: , except for chariot archers (because they don't go into melee), they dont have enough numbers to last long and therefore just an annoyance.

I love cavalry in other civs and mainly use them but hate pairing it with phalanxes even though their is obviously a need for them.

[Breetai]

Chariots SUCK


:2cents:Try charging a unit of chariots directly into some melee cavalry. I just did a test battle where 3 chariots, when charged directly into 2 groups of Parthian Cataphracts, took out both units of Cataphracts within 3 seconds of contact, killing al but 3 and sustaining only one casualty. They're also incredibly good battlefield assassins, and a single unit of melee chariots can take down even a post-marian eastern general in a metter of seconds with few losses.


Bottom line: Chariots are your anti-cavalry units. Use them as such, and they'll make you very hard to outflank.:2cents:

[Phoenix]

Aside from being anti-cavalry, I found that Scythed Chariots break up infantry formations rather well also, as long as you keep your chariots moving constantly and avoid any phalanx units.

[GM1940]

The phalanx cavalry relationship is tenuous at best. I feel that all it does is disorganize my lines, but i do admit its near imposssible to beat archers and it is impossible to beat horse archers with a phalanx. Doesn't mean i have to like them however. Chariots SUCK:furious3: , except for chariot archers (because they don't go into melee), they dont have enough numbers to last long and therefore just an annoyance.

I love cavalry in other civs and mainly use them but hate pairing it with phalanxes even though their is obviously a need for them.

My experience is that I stopped sucking with the Seleucids when I stopped trying to get kills with my phalanx line; it is supposed to keep itself organized, avoid getting flanked, and handle any army to army clash that the AI forces on me. Cavalry, both missile and melee, archers and slingers do the damage and absorb most of the micromanagement.

Not that the phalanxes are shabby, mind - mil-hops can defend cities against 10 times their number, take out charioteers as if with laser cannons, and generally hold their own against anything except roman heavy infantry or longer-speared hoplites.

Cheesily, the phalanx line is the ultimate 'corner camper;' - if you don't care about absuing 'red lines in the ground noone can cross,' hoplites with artificially secure flanks can put vastly superior armies to flight, at which point any mil-cav around will commence to make it a lovely 0 survivor route. If like most people you find this a little bit much, more maneuvering is involved. But as long as you stay defensive you can still make very cost effective use of pikes.

[I of the Storm]

Bottom line: Chariots are your anti-cavalry units. Use them as such, and they'll make you very hard to outflank.:2cents:

Plus, if you're rich, and as the Seleucids you usually are, Elephants (even the little ones) can serve the same role. They have an anticav bonus as well plus can handle any non-phalanx infantry for a while on their own. And they frighten the enemy.:beam: So they are an excellent flank protection also.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Plus, if you're rich, and as the Seleucids you usually are, Elephants (even the little ones) can serve the same role. They have an anticav bonus as well plus can handle any non-phalanx infantry for a while on their own. And they frighten the enemy.:beam: So they are an excellent flank protection also.

Depends who you are up against. If the AI team has a goodly proportion of archers, you can pretty well bet on panicked elephants unless your cav can get to the archers.

Mind you, you can use this against the AI as well, since their monomaniacal focus on panicking your elephants means that the archers aren't doing dorcas to affect your other units. I often use elephants as bait this way. Then, when my cav has sent off the archers....

[Rotc_Railey15]

I use elephants only to spearhead through infantry, never cavalry. Usually to send those Eastern infantryman to the north heading for the hills leaving behind only Chariots. Then I use archers and Greek cav. to take out chariots.

[RexCroatorum]

I am new here but I play Total war games since shogun. I think that playing with selucidians is not fer couse they have the best balance in the game and are positioned on the very best trade roads, whenever play with them I get whole asia and greece and have about 300,000 denarii, for me better chalange is to play with macedonians or pontus, and especialy Scynthias.

[Rotc_Railey15]

Ooh I just started a Pontus game and its real difficult! You rely solely on cavalry in the beggining of the game and thats difficult when in sieges.

[Centurion1]

Pontus is difficult, but this is a seleucid thread so stay focused:2thumbsup: The seleucids if you manage to survive the early game are very easy to play and thats the problem. They have nice cities to start with too, the only problem is that they are almost on a straight line and therefore susceptible to attacks from......well everyone. Which is what makes early game so much fun, but diplomacy is easy cause everyone hates egyptians, only problem is that no one in the middle-east has the decency to keep a treaty.:furious3:

[RexCroatorum]

Why people allways say Selucids are attacked by everyon, when I play with them only that attacked me was Egypt and after that (because they were allys) Pontus and couse you are very very rich youn easily manage to buy/destroy them all. Selucids are also very good couse they have much sons and doughter which provide us with plenty of goood generals.

[Centurion1]

Depends on your game difficulty, and the Egyptians are hardwired to attack you no matter what:egypt: . And Parthia always cheats on an alliance as you saw. As to Armenia it all depends on who gets there first you or Parthia. However Pontus is usually pretty reliable as are the Greeks.:2thumbsup:

[RexCroatorum]

I play every game on very hard/very hard. But maybe this is becouse I have my favourites nations:book: (Carthage, Macedonians, Selucids and Brutii) with which I made perfect start and then it is easily to develop in world wide kingdom.

[Rotc_Railey15]

Does anyone else here think that Cataphracts are the best cavalry in the game? I love Cataphracts! They send my enemies cavalry running everytime! (Not too mention infantry.)

Ive beaten the Egyptians, but not Pontus, Armenia, and Parthia. (Although Parthia only has one city left. the most northern one revolted!)

[RexCroatorum]

Apsolutly they are the best cavalary in the game.:smash:

[zedestroyer]

Cataphract archers are better, they can kill everything, even armoured elephants are a easy target for them.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Phalanx owns all even chariots and once the selucids have archers (which for me took a while, bloody parthia) you can make the scythed chariots and elephants run amok quick sticks anyway. As has been said the only difficult thing about the selucids is you seem to get it from all angles right from the start but once you fight them off you are in the clear.

Furthermore a lot of the early attacks (Parthia, Armenia and Pontus) seem to involve archercav which is almost impossible to counter with any of your early units. Get used to sending out loose formation peasants as bait.

[ixidor]

Seleucid empire is overpowered in my opinon. I mean, they have alexander's phalanx men (in fact they have a silver shield improved version), his great companion cavalry plus the Cataphracts (probably the best shock cavalry in the game) and cataphracts archers, they have hannibal's war elephants, chariots much like egipt's style, a very good heavy infantry unit copied from the romans, i mean, it seems that they decide to join all the great strengths of the other great factions of the game and gave them to a faction with vastly rich territories. With a good start and a well planned strategy, the seleucid empire is a walk...

[SpartanPhalanx]

Seleucid empire is overpowered in my opinon. I mean, they have alexander's phalanx men (in fact they have a silver shield improved version), his great companion cavalry plus the Cataphracts (probably the best shock cavalry in the game) and cataphracts archers, they have hannibal's war elephants, chariots much like egipt's style, a very good heavy infantry unit copied from the romans, i mean, it seems that they decide to join all the great strengths of the other great factions of the game and gave them to a faction with vastly rich territories. With a good start and a well planned strategy, the seleucid empire is a walk...

bzzzt wrong

i know the armenians have them but not sure who else

however the selucids definately do not

[ixidor]

Yeah, i realized my mistake after the reply but since i don't know how to edit my posts, lol...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yeah, i realized my mistake after the reply but since i don't know how to edit my posts, lol...

Achieve member status and the edit button will appear down at the bottom. If you're a decent enough sort, have 100+ posts, and they haven't twigged on you to make the change, just send a PM to Tosa Inu, he'll review and update status.

The Selkies have lots of choices -- but that can also be a problem. If you get too enamored of the various options available, you may try to put everything in one army and end up with an army that does nothing particularly well. Selkies lack long range archery unless they can purchase enough Cretans.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Achieve member status and the edit button will appear down at the bottom. If you're a decent enough sort, have 100+ posts, and they haven't twigged on you to make the change, just send a PM to Tosa Inu, he'll review and update status.

The Selkies have lots of choices -- but that can also be a problem. If you get too enamored of the various options available, you may try to put everything in one army and end up with an army that does nothing particularly well. Selkies lack long range archery unless they can purchase enough Cretans.
yeah that sucks that the cretans have greater range than the selucids ... but hey the mercs are loads more expensive

PS, I LOVE FRENCH POODLES. ESPECIALLY THE PINK ONES.

[Poulp']

Cretans hold a special place amidst mercenaries; they are the only access to long range shooters for the factions who lacks that kind of shoooting.

Moreover, Crete is located in the middle of the map, with the appropriate logistics, you can get them to the frontline. (have a good city manager stays in Kydonia and scoot for the green guys now and then, ship them to the fighting stack, and have your other half-strength unit of Cretans rest in a city behind the frontline, ready to make up for any casualties.

Sure, the army train is tedious and expensive, but it pays to have those guys on the battlefield.

[gummybear00]

Yup, Cretan archers rule. To me, they're the best mercenary unit in the game. If properly taken care of, they'll never die and they have super long range with good damage. Time only makes them more and more lethal. I use these to wipe out all of the enemy's ranged units like pathetic peltasts and helpless regular archers.

I don't know how you guys are able to make peace with your neighbors because Pontus desperately wants Tarsis (city west of antioch) and Armenia wants Hatra. They keep sending full stacks to siege these cities. Egypt declares war with the first 3-4 turns.

In the beginning I'm completely outclassed by the enemy armies. They have chariots, invincible Pontus general cavalry (12 attack, 12 missile!! Charge through phalanxes easily and surround the phalanx) and horse archers. I'm reduced to taking Sidon and Jerusalem and defending while building up my cities and get better quality units. After I got phalanx pikemen I pretty much owned them all though. I let them live so I can tech up and use my better units on them.

[rvg]

Does anyone else here think that Cataphracts are the best cavalry in the game? I love Cataphracts! They send my enemies cavalry running everytime! (Not too mention infantry.)

Ive beaten the Egyptians, but not Pontus, Armenia, and Parthia. (Although Parthia only has one city left. the most northern one revolted!)

Cataphracts are pretty good, BUT....Egyptian Heavy Chariots or Pontic Scythed Chariots will grind them into horsemeat in a single charge. Melee chariots destroy horses extremely quickly and with almost no casualties amongst themselves.
Heck, even the Light Chariots can do it well enough.... much faster for them to grind the katanks down instead of spending an eternity peppering them with arrows.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Quick question and it doesn't strictly belong here but ...

What do you have to do to stop the towers at gates stop firing missles at you?

Is it as simple as marching a unit up the wall and 'capturing' it?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Quick question and it doesn't strictly belong here but ...

What do you have to do to stop the towers at gates stop firing missles at you?

Is it as simple as marching a unit up the wall and 'capturing' it?

Yep. First soldier through the door (assuming no enemies present) and all of the missile crews immediately switch sides. Remember, however, the AI can do it back to you too!

[c4stigator]

A while ago i developed a nice battle formation for the Seleucids, but i havent tested it against any human players or anything. Still, it works well aginast AI. I cant remember it too well, but its something like this.

You take 8 units of silver shield pikemen, and array them in a single line. Then, place 2 units of javelin throwers in front, 2/4 units of archers behind. Then you place two units of greek militia cavalry on either side of your pikemen, so youve got a cross shape. You then deploy your general and two untis of companion cavalry on the flank (either or both).

You march everyone forward at walking speed, except the skirmishers who run. Your main block should stop, about halfway between your starting position and the enemy formation. You skirmishers should then be placed halfway between the enemy and your current formation. You cavalry on the flank should be parralel to the enemy formation.

You skirmishers then lure the enemy out of formation. When they charge you, pull them back, and march your pikemen forward. The units your enemy sent to charge you then get minced by your phalanxes. You then position each skirmish unit behind the greek cavalry, so you now have one massive rectangle of troops.

Tie up any enemy units with your pikemen, then send in your general and his companions to hit the enemy in the rear.

Your greek cavalry protect your pikemens flanks from attack, then, after the enemy retreat, chase them down.


This strategy works well when attacking, though i doubt it would work as good as a defensive strategy. (Take more archers and then some legionaries to replace the greek cavalry).

[gummybear00]

The seleucids are very powerful. You can simply use 1 war elephant and 2-4 cataphracts to route an entire army. The elephant will charge into enemy lines and run back and forth disrupting their formation and lowering their morale while the cataphracts will charge any elite infantry. This will lead to massive routing by the enemy and you can use your generals or some other fast cavalry (like companion) to kill the routers.

I don't really like the companion cavalry as they are supposed to be top tier but their attack/charge is lacking and their defense is so weak plus they don't have "fast moving" I think. Sarmatian mercs are as good if not better than these guys.

Also, does anyone find the shields to be somewhat strange? These pikemen carry tiny shields, which don't really do much except to protect their privates. The Pontus also get phalanx pikeman with something like 5 shield while their superior counterpart, bronze pikeman get only 2 shield but both of their shields look the same size!

[Boyar Son]

Ur northern enemies are jerks, they WILL betray you. so fortify hatra, and prepare to destroy pontus.

Defensive war against egypt can be used for a little, but dont do it forever or they'll get real hard to destroy.

[SpartanPhalanx]

This is more of a Scythed Chariot issue than specifically a Seleucid Empire issue but ... has anyone noticed that during sieges if you are using your chariots in the streets they only need to lose one unit and once they become tired (not exhausted) they run amok. No flaming arrows or pigs or any of that I almost lost an 8 Star General because I had no idea what was going on. I guess I just need to be more careful when using these guys in the streets.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'll use them defending a square or in the open field -- I will not use them to attack a town. Way too "hiccough" prone.

[woad&fangs]

yeah, Scythed chariots are great in the open field(one of the few things that works well against cataphracts) but they need to keep moving to be effective. It's best to leave them out of crowded city fighting.

[Patricius]

It becomes easy once the Egyptians are terminated. That said masses of levy phalanxes with a smaller number of high grade units from Antioch, did the heavy lifting early in the game. If the fight is infantry vs infantry the Egyptians seem to have fairly poor morale.

[Master Young Phoenix]

I'm currently playing seleucids and It's not as difficult as I imagined, considering the fact that they're the first faction eliminated most of the times when you play another faction (but maybe that's to the fact that they really blow on auto-resolve ;)).

In short, all your neighbours are treacherous B-tards, except maybe the greek cities and bridges (any phalanx-using army finds them their most trustworthy ally) I used a diplomat near their Asia Minor town to keep proposing alliances every time Pontus made a move on me and it helped a great deal because pontus allies with the greeks too, an alliance with your enemies allies leads to a ceasefire and you get time to prepare for their next attempt. In asia minor, you should recrute archer- and slinger- mercenaries and militiahoplites.

I put an army with at least 3 hoplite units and some supporting troops (peltasts for extra killing and cavalry for the chase) on the bridge between hatra and armenia... It will chew up the armies they send south.

I'm using quite a few mercenaries and though I have left Susa (Parthia) alone, I took their capital and the Parthain's aren't bothering me no more. I also took the Armenian city next to Araskia 'cause it was barely defended. I put an army (again 3 hoplites, 2 peltasts, 2 peasants and 1 cavalry) on the bridge between Susa and arabia and that has been munching on parthian flesh untill they didn't try again.

On the egyptian front I recruited a big army of spear and pike and drove south, took sidon and Jerusalem and then Alexandria which was surprisingly underdeveloped (not even the basic barracks, but I can now train archers there). Again, bridges have been the most trustworthy ally so far ;)

As the seleucids, you have a very nice income in the first few years, so a while later, you CAN fight a 3 front war. The egyptians are no match, even with their more varied early roster.

I also finally found the value in peasants, and this will hold true for most Hellenic Factions who don't have swordmen infantry in the early game (or at all), Flankers. Teamed with a family member of even militia cavalry, if you can make these fellows get to the rear of the enemy fighting your phalanxes, they are a 100d well spent.

Seleucia is really one of those armies you shouldn't use auto-resolve with... I wasn't a fan of it allready (you inflict way to few casualties on the enemy and the rival family members always survive) but did use it on the smaller rebel armies 'cause after a while, I find fighting just some peasants tedious.... If rebel armies are small and composed of nothing but peasants or other inferior infantry it can turn out allright if you outnumber them greatly.
Actually one fight against rebels I did myself got me a Famous Battle marker. There was a family member involved, the terrain was not in my favour and I had to try it two times before I destroyed them.

[Patroclus]

(but maybe that's to the fact that they really blow on auto-resolve ;)).

That and the fact that the AI can't really cope with being surrounded by four different hostile factions; in my experience it overbalances in Hatra (which only needs to be lightly fortified against occassional Armenian advances) and doesn't deploy effectively in Syria. Usually Syria gets taken by Egypt early on, leaving a pitiful few exposed scraps in Anatolia and a huge stack in Hatra.

[Quintus.JC]

with good early plan the Seleucid really is easy. try to keep the Parthian and Pontus expanding else where and concentrate on Egypt and Armenia early on. Pontus naturally left me alone and went to conquer the rest of Anatolia. I paid the Parthians 50 Denari for 40 turns, and inside the 40 turns the Parthians never touched me apart from sending a few occasional spy to Seleucia. Armenia will relentlessly attack Hatra until it falls. They normally come with a family member with a couple of Eastern infantry and some horse archers. leaving a few militia hoplite with a general in there and if they try to break in they will die. The problem is the first time they will try to get in with Rams. after losing this they will simply surround the city and starve you out. while sallying isn't gonna work because of the slow militia hoplite will be half dead before fighting an enemy unit. my solution was to leave 2 Militia hoplite in Hatra. when the Armenians arrive and attack i will try my best to hold them off. it they camp out and try to starve me i let them, after a few turns the city falls. straight away i sent a army consisting of 1 general, 2 elephant and 5 militia hoplite from antioch. Armenian army might be highly moveable in the plains but in the city they can be easily slaughtered by elephant and militia hoplite Phalanx, since flanking wasn't possible. after capturing the city back i left the army and stationed 2 MH garrison and repeated this action when attacked again by Armenia. this worked 3 times more. down in Egypt they came with huge forces, consisting of low qulity troops + mass skirmishers. the Selecuid really lacks good early unit but they still had one weapon that will demolish the Egyptians-Elephants. On turn 1 i built a cavalry stables in Antioch and trained Elephants in masses, supplied with Militia Hoplite from Damasacus, Egypt had the first offencive but was beaten easily. I took Sidon then Jerusalem followed by Memphis, Alexandria and then Thebes. after the Egyptian problem solved i took on Parthia. again fighting in cities so that Parthian horse archer's use could be limited and their cataphracts were tramped by my elephants, Armenia was next then the friendly Pontus. after gainin total control of Asia, Egypt and Anatolia. Alexandria was mass producing infantry, Antioch was concentrated on cavalry while Pergamum was producing missiles. i later stepped into the Balkans and headed into Italy.
Overall the early Seleucid force is one of the worst in the game. only the elephant saved the day and the destruction of all of the Eastern factions i owe it to them, later on i could train Catapharcts, companians and silver shields. that later Seleucid army is just about unbeatable commanded by a exprenced General.

[mrdun]

I take my hat off to you QJC you know what you are talking about.

[Quintus.JC]

I think everybody has to agree the Seleucid has the most diverse army, and when combined properly is practically invincible. the only problem in the imperial campaign comes early, if Egypt is dealt with then the rest should be a walk.:2thumbsup:
They have Parthian's Cataphracts, Alexander's companion, Hannibal's elephants, Egypt's Chariots, Roman's Legion, Macedonian style Pikemen. Greek basic Militias. What more could you ask for? (apart from Cretan archers, I suppose)::yes:

[mrdun]

There is always mercs plus modding:greedy:

[Quintus.JC]

I try to recurit mencenary only in desperate situations.

[Vitellus]

Perhaps this is because I play my battles on Medium, but I found militia hoplites quite sufficient for the defeat of Egypt.

I trained masses of these buggers to defend my cities and supplement the two field armies I had facing the Ptolemaics. When the tide turned and I drove them from the Levant, to exploit the pursuit I went ahead and formed a few armies composed mostly of the hoplites, to run interference and raise hell generally.

These guys proceeded to slaughter every Egyptian army in the desert between Jerusalem and Alexandria. When attacked, no matter the numbers, a simple square would beat back the enemy with severe losses, and I'd resume my march to the next city, where the streets gave me an easy win.

They also proved more than adequate against the Pontians and Greeks, but I had to put more varied units into the field against the Eastern factions. Nevertheless, the militia hoplite is a cheap, easily produced unit that is quite a threat in large numbers, against a stupid battle AI.

[Quintus.JC]

Perhaps this is because I play my battles on Medium, but I found militia hoplites quite sufficient for the defeat of Egypt...........

Same here, Militia hoplite is the best unit that could be trained out of a basic barrack. They're going to make your backbone of the army early on. but elephants is definetly gonna be needed, just in case.

[Paradox]

I find the Seleucid campaigns to be slightly difficult, as you have much enemies to face. You have Pontus, Greeks, Parthians, Armenians, and Egypt all against you. The hard part was that the Pontics, Parthians and Armenians were all client kingdoms and kept launching multiple attacks right at me while my army in Greece have been threatened. Also, the Egyptians in the south, who are a big nuisance.

Basically, I've been surrounded on all sides, from land to sea, by five factions all at once. I managed to defeat the Egyptians and weaken their navy, conquer Salamis, and bribe captains, thus completing my short campaign. The Pontics weren't difficult at all, what made them a challenge was the fact that they had the Armenians and Parthians supporting them and distracting my lands in the east.

I pushed back the Parthians to the far north, easily eliminated the Pontics, and destroy the Armenians.

The Seleucid Empire was a fun faction to play as, it has many advantages and disadvantages. You just have to know how to use your wealth and army, which are the things the Seleucids are mainly good for.

[mrdun]

Yeah you are loaded, spam militia hoplites to keep your cities, I find that AI missile units will try to charge them when they have breached the walls, easy exp for themand your General!!

[Barbarian]

I think it isn't so hard, I found the Gauls campaign to be much harder.

Although I like to establish stable economy at the start, and only then start training troops, I do a bit different strategy with Seleucids. At the start it is useful to train 5-8 units of militia hoplites in each of the cities, to prevent others from planning an invasion on them. Even militia hoplites can perform extremely well in siege defense battles.
Diplomacy is also important. Making alliances with Pontus and Egypt will make them forget about you for some time and concentrate on Armenians and Parthians. AI only breaks alliances if it sees a great opportunity to take some weakly guarded city, but if you have a decent garrison in border cities, it will decide to keep the alliance and go for the enemies instead.

Once you get stable economy and units, like elephants, scythed chariots and your best phalanx units, the game seems even too easy. I got bored soon, because I needed to use only 25% of my army to win battles against egypt- the rest just stood there as reinforcements and watched over the battle, in a case anything goes wrong

[mrdun]

3 units of militia hoplites nearly stood up to 2 parthian Cata's in a siege, neededt the help of a few units of skirmishers plus general to rout them. They nearly did it on their own though

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Yeah you are loaded, spam militia hoplites to keep your cities, I find that AI missile units will try to charge them when they have breached the walls, easy exp for themand your General!!

I agree unreservedly.
Malitia hoplites, with their low cost(150 Rec, 100 upkeep) make great garrison for cities that are near borders of contension. On the defensive in a city, they can easily hold their own against most units early-through-mid game.

[JamesMarat]

My militia hoplites saved me from the Armenians, Pontics and Partians, plus dumb AI of course but ou cant argue with two Militias stopping two parthian catas!!

[Quintus.JC]

I understand the importance of miliitia hoplite in defending Sieges, but what if the enemy decides to starve you out, what are you going to do then. Eastern Factions would slaughter them in an open battle.

[Paradox]

I understand the importance of miliitia hoplite in defending Sieges, but what if the enemy decides to starve you out, what are you going to do then. Eastern Factions would slaughter them in an open battle.
Starve you out? Sigh, as I've said before, the enemy would never just stand there during a siege and wait for you to attack them. They will always attempt to breach the castle.

[mrdun]

Starve you out? Sigh, as I've said before, the enemy would never just stand there during a siege and wait for you to attack them. They will always attempt to breach the castle.

I have to disagree, if you have a weak garrison in the eyes of the AI, ie two/three militia hoplites you can be starved out even though you can overcome 10-1 odds at least. It does not happen always but it is not a dead cert to be attacked.

[Paradox]

So if you "sally forth", the enemy will just sit there as you wait for them to attack? That's just stupid.

[Quintus.JC]

it happened to me with the Seleucids. The Armenians beseiged Hatra, first time they assulted and was beaten back, second time they just camped out side the walls. if you do try to sally they'll probably win. They have masses of Horsh archers and skirmishers which could harrass the slow moving MH freely. when defending MH are alright but when forced to go outside they don't stand a chance against eastern factions.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I had an awesome siege battle once only utilizing MH.
Odds were about 1:4 in the Armenian's favor. They were besieging Hatra, which they lust for so much. I just plugged up the alleys and watched happily as the Eastern Infantry impaled themselves upon my spearpoints.
:pirate2:
It was wholesale rout. After the battle my general got the trait "famously courageous", +3 to morale. The Armenians never came back after that.:whip:

[Quintus.JC]

I know that'll happen if they assult, but what if they just wait? Militia hoplite just wouldn't beat Eastern Factions in the open fields.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I highly doubt that they would starve me out. Armenians have too much pride (esp when it comes to Hatra) to be imtimidated by a few motely militia hoplites.
If they've built siege equipment then you know for sure that they are going to attack.
But as you hypothetically propose, if they really were going to starve me out, I would rather attack them and die a noble death the turn before surrender, rather than hand it over with out a fight.:duel:

[Punicus]

Yeah, I rarely have an occasion where the AI tries to starve me out.

When playing the Seleucids I always make sure I attack Egypt first. If I make the first move I feel I have an advantage because I will be able to take one of their cities before they can churn out the huge stacks. Honestly, there's absolutely no reason why the early Seleucid units can't handle early Egyptian units. Levy Pikeman and Militia Hoplites have always worked fine in my experience. And just like the Greeks, massing the weaker cavalry into one thick formation helps to get past early cavalry woes.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Amen to that, brother.
I've written three posts trying to say what you've just said in one.

[Punicus]

Haha, I didn't read any of the posts before I posted my own strategy so I didn't notice. :)

[Good Ship Chuckle]

All in all, I found the seleucids to be pretty easy. One you establish yourself at the beginning, they become unstoppable. Their unit diversity is unmatched. What unit don't they have? Oh yeah, fanatical warband, How could I forget?:laugh4:

Here's the final shot of my campaign. 248 BC and lost only 18 battles. Not shabby, if I may say so. To be honest, I wish I had waited longer before crushing Rome, so I could use some of their higher teir units. In fact, I didn't produce a single Campanion Cavalry, nor Armoured Elephant, and only was able to produce a couple Silver Sheild pikemen in Egypt, far from the front lines. *sigh Though it was fun to beseige Rome with a horde of militia hoplites! :wry:

Also, can you find the five stacks of Seluecids in Italy?

Have at it then!!:horn:

https://img180.imageshack.us/img180/429/seleucidendvm3.th.png (https://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seleucidendvm3.png)


Capua

Rome


Just outside Rome


Ariminum


One heading towards Patavium,which if full Chariots and Cav, which is why it looks only half stack.


The Romans never stood a chance. :wry:

[Vitellus]

As the Seleucids, my massed armies of militia hoplites absolutely destroyed Egypt in the open desert - the good ol' infantry square canna be beaten by the stupid AI! With them no threat, I quickly overran the entire East.

However, I've been sitting on my side of the Aegean for the last few decades, 'coz I don't wnat to end the game too soon. I've been having fun propping up the Macedonians, who only have Bylazora and are constantly under attack from Dacians and Romans. I've kept them alive with a singe diplomat and a general. The Seleucid gold works wonders, try it for an interesting game sometime.

Regarding sieges, you really have no need to sally. If they try and starve you out, you should have AT LEAST five turns to scrape together a relief force and chase 'em off. I've always found it more than enough, at least.

[Quintus.JC]

The whole point of playing as the Seleucids is to have their late period units. When I fought the Romans it was way after 240 B.C. Rome had their legions, and I had everything including the legions. I had fun fighting the Brutii in the Balkans and later in Italy.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Playing the game fast has its pros and cons. It all really comes down to a matter of taste. For me, bashing every faction in my way before they can react, holds more merit.

[Quintus.JC]

My Seleucid Army towards the end of campaign:
1 General
2 Cataphracts
2 Companion Cavalry
2 Elephants of choice
2 Archers
1 Onager
7 ShilverShield/Phalanx Pikemen
2 ShilverShield Legionaries.

I am not a big fan of Militia Cavalry, while Militia Hoplite for me is no more than basic town garrison, although they're essential for your early campaign against Egypt and the rest.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Interesting...Not that I don't love cataphracts, I find militia hoplites and cav to be extremely useful. Alone, they are useless, but when both are used in a group, they fair remarkably well in combat, well up until the middle game, which is how I finished by campaign so early.

Like Archimedes said "give me a place to stand, I shall move the world."
Similarly, I say "give me a militia hoplite and a militia cav, and I shall conquer the world."

My seleucid army (In this game at least) usually consisted of:
1 general
9 Militia/levy/phalanx pikemen
4 range units (onager/archer)
6 militia cav (greek cav is a joke) or ellies

See the picture above for a picture of my army I used to conquer Rome with.

[Vitellus]

They are indeed fairly devastating in sufficient numbers - all my early fighting was done with militia hoplites and cavalry. However, those higher-tier units are there, so, dammit, I'm gonna use 'em! If that means sitting in the Orient for a while instead of constant aggressive expansion, so be it. That's the reason why his army, which is from a much later time period, doesn't include those units - not that he doesn't think they're enough to get it done, but the units he DOES have available are much more effective, plus allow for a more varied playstyle.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

However, those higher-tier units are there, so, dammit, I'm gonna use 'em! If that means sitting in the Orient for a while instead of constant aggressive expansion, so be it. That's the reason why his army, which is from a much later time period, doesn't include those units - not that he doesn't think they're enough to get it done, but the units he DOES have available are much more effective, plus allow for a more varied playstyle.

I agree unreservedly. I have no argument with what you say. What I'm saying is that it all boils down to taste. There are two schools:
1)Blitz your enemys, and crush them swiftly with early units
2)Build your support slowly, and then descend upon your enemies like an inexorable steamroller.

It's all about the taste.:7teacher:

[Punicus]

I prefer personally - at first - to build up my empire's economy while fighting perhaps one major war against a faction which will get me rich lands and trying my hardest to keep the peace with everyone else. Luckily, it is most likely that there will be only one or two factions around you with true potential to dominate, in this case, Egypt. However, there isn't any way I'm letting Pontus or Armenia or Parthia expand on me - they don't have the troops, nor the money to do so when faced with even my Militia armies, especially early on when this is taking place. This way you can expand a bit, keep a steady economy, and work your way towards high-tier units all at the same time. Once you've got 20-some provinces, good units, and the cash is just flowing in, there's no issue from then on.

I'm certainly not denying the use of Militia Cavalry and Militia Hoplites - they've saved my butt a good few times, along with Levy Pikemen. However, as Vitellus said, if Cataphracts are there, with their 23 defence and shiny armor... I'm gonna have to go with Cataphracts.

[Punicus]

So? No one's to say you can't have both Cataphracts and a lighter form of cavalry in the same army. Besides, their charge and defensive stats are unmatched by any other cavalry, and when they get experience they're close to unstoppable (by the AI, at least). I think it's a good trade-off.

[The Wandering Scholar]

It is but they are like tanks, they should have unmatched defence and charge

[Quintus.JC]

Armoured Elephants are like armoured tanks of the ancient world. I find them to be immensely successful against cavalry. All elephants are like that. Even cataphracts can't handle them.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Settle down guys. Luckily with the Seleucids, you can have both in the same army. :yes: The ellies are for smashing, and the cata's are for bashing. :wry:

[carbz]

Interesting.

I agree that once u establish seucids they re unstoppable. However at the beginning there are more than a few problems. I am fighting parthia, armenia, pontus, egypt and greece. My only ally is numidia lol, and trust em they werent my first choice bloody backstabbing greeks.

Interestingly, i had the most trouble with the parthians. Their ranged cavalry really shook up my militia hoplites, so the suckas routed when it came to the main battle.

Money is ok, but is kinda problematic when you are sitting besieged in your castle for 5 turns whilst your relief force arrives. plus being at war with everyone means my trade isnt exactly great.

levy pikeman defending a breach though, now thats fun. Have also just got armoured elephants and cataphracts, which now makes battles a cake walk,

scythed chariots were a load of crap, units too small and prone to going bezerk!

[Quintus.JC]

How did you get into a war with everyone around you? you must be really unpopular, i don't think i could survive that.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Everytime I play as Seleucid it just happens, all at the same time. Its tough but you can take a rather large expanse of land with good reason :P

[whtdoesitmatta]

I survive by using my huge income as a bribing tool.

[Quintus.JC]

In my Seleucid campaign i tried to have as few enemies as possible. Armenia always attacks Hatra, that can't be avoided. The Egyptians are your arch-enemy and destroying them was my top prioraty. The Parthian might attack you, i find that the parthian might just leave you by random chance but some regular tributes might help. Pontus will be busy taking control of Asian Minors, i make alliance with them all the time, while there's an outside chance Greece might try to take Sardis, but i believe they have more serious affair in Europe.
In my campaign i attacked Egypt with everything I had, while i was on the defensive against Armenia, trying to avoid open battle if possible. kept the Parthian off my back with Tributes. Made Alliance with Pontus and left the Greeks in a huge scale war against Pontus. All of these factions would be later destroyed of course before taking on Rome.

[Quintus.JC]

Interesting.

Interestingly, i had the most trouble with the parthians. Their ranged cavalry really shook up my militia hoplites, so the suckas routed when it came to the main battle.


scythed chariots were a load of crap, units too small and prone to going bezerk!

Against Eastern Factions i tried to avoid all open field battles. Fight them in seige battles, horse archers lose their value and even catapharacts can't handle a couple of units of pikemen and hoplites.

i personally find Scythed Chariots to be extremly useless. I don't have much love for any sort of Chariots. although i do admit they have their own unique advantages.

[whtdoesitmatta]

I Allied everyone I boarded from the beginning. Then I canceled my alliance with Egypt and attacked them, Taking Sidon as soon as they went to war with numidia. Then Pontus attacks greece and I side with Pontus, then Armenia attacks and Pontus and Parthia break alliances with me...

I'm a poor diplomat.

[Master Young Phoenix]

Against Eastern Factions i tried to avoid all open field battles. Fight them in seige battles, horse archers lose their value and even catapharacts can't handle a couple of units of pikemen and hoplites.

i personally find Scythed Chariots to be extremly useless. I don't have much love for any sort of Chariots. although i do admit they have their own unique advantages.

I do like the Egyptian chariots, one unit of them (8 chariots, 24 crew) destroyed an entire army by themselves during a siege battle in my current brutii campaign... my bad, all my cohorts where in a big clump in a street and most javelins and pila had allready pincushioned Nubians and Nile people... it was like a mixer!
Though, if you have phalanx units, Chariots are not threat at all (save for the few that shoot arrows... that's why you need militia cavalry and skirmishers)

Sieging and avoiding open combat is the way to go against parthia and Armenia. Pontus uses mostly Eastern Infantry and those Chariots of theirs... no big deal for phalanx units.

[Quintus.JC]

I Allied everyone I boarded from the beginning. Then I canceled my alliance with Egypt and attacked them, Taking Sidon as soon as they went to war with numidia. Then Pontus attacks greece and I side with Pontus, then Armenia attacks and Pontus and Parthia break alliances with me...

I'm a poor diplomat.

Avoiding war with Egypt and Armenia is almost impossible. Pontus always seems to be in war with Greece and i sided with Pontus as well. The only way for Parthia to expand is to fight the Seleucids so it's only a matter of time, but I try my best to delay it, preferable when Egypt is destroyed.

[carbz]

Against Eastern Factions i tried to avoid all open field battles. Fight them in seige battles, horse archers lose their value and even catapharacts can't handle a couple of units of pikemen and hoplites.

i personally find Scythed Chariots to be extremly useless. I don't have much love for any sort of Chariots. although i do admit they have their own unique advantages.


yes this makes sense.

However i find that money isnt as great as everyone makes out. I was beseiged by the greeks in that town above hilicarnassus, ponts in the town to the left of my capitial, Hatra by the armenians, and parthia wwere beseiging the town to the right of hatra. Egyptians beseiging my capital!

(forgive me im at work, cant remember town names.)

this seemed to have a rather adverse effect on my income and people started rioting, i had to sally forth cos i was on the rack financially!

I think i should have tried a bit harder diplomatically........

[Quintus.JC]

However i find that money isnt as great as everyone makes out..........
this seemed to have a rather adverse effect on my income and people started rioting, i had to sally forth cos i was on the rack financially!

I think i should have tried a bit harder diplomatically........

For me diplomacy was key to my survival as the Seleucids early on. Get trade rights with as many faction and avoid war. Your weak early troops don't help either. as in your situation i propably would of quited already. start fresh I would take out Egypt as soon as possible. This gives you enomorous income and also set loose your troops of the Egyptian front. War with Armenia and Parthia is unaviodable and an Helensic betrayal is highly possible. Sarifices had to be made. I personally would of abandoned Sardis & Seleucia if attacked, move all your family members toward Antioch for the big offensive against Egypt. after that you could commit all your troops on the Eastern factions. Elephants can also be vital. all this hard work is worth it knowing what sort of troops the Seleucids could field later on. after Asia it's all the player's choice how to advance to Rome. I personally rampaged Brutii Balkans before storming Rome, becoming Imperator.

[carbz]

well i did get creamed omed for several games, until i managed to hang on and build a stables. Im thinking the balkans is the way forward now i have smashed the egyptians, although i do fancy trying to kick the scipi off the african continent.

just got silver shield pikeman, they are quite useful!

[Quintus.JC]

Temple to Hephaestos (upgrades) are an absulote advantage, not only they upgrade weapons and armor but also give exprenice. Invalueble. build them in troop producing cities. While the one that gives health bonus can also be handy in numerous ecasions.

[Quintus.JC]

Getting Carthage could be your platform for Rome. One advantage is it's ability to retrain and recruit Elephants. a source not found in the Balkans. but with the late tier units you could crush the Romans with them anyway.

[carbz]

im building elephants in antioch, those armoured ones. I find they run amok pretty esily as well though, probs is i dont like 'spiking them' so i leave them running amok so i can have them in the next battle!

carthage has been creamed already by the scippi, carthage are reduced toone lame assed little city in southern spain. They still didnt want to share map info though despite me being their only ally!

why does everyone hate me?????/ Im just not getting the diplomacy thing.


thanks re hephaestus thing, didnt realise they give a bonus like mars.

[carbz]

im building elephants in antioch, those armoured ones. I find they run amok pretty esily as well though, probs is i dont like 'spiking them' so i leave them running amok so i can have them in the next battle!

carthage has been creamed already by the scippi, carthage are reduced toone lame assed little city in southern spain. They still didnt want to share map info though despite me being their only ally!

why does everyone hate me?????/ Im just not getting the diplomacy thing.


thanks re hephaestus thing, didnt realise they give a bonus like mars.

[Quintus.JC]

im building elephants in antioch, those armoured ones. I find they run amok pretty esily as well though, probs is i dont like 'spiking them' so i leave them running amok so i can have them in the next battle!

carthage has been creamed already by the scippi, carthage are reduced toone lame assed little city in southern spain. They still didnt want to share map info though despite me being their only ally!

why does everyone hate me?????/ Im just not getting the diplomacy thing.


thanks re hephaestus thing, didnt realise they give a bonus like mars.


Somehow I also finds armoured elephants to be more proven to running amok than war elephants. I rarely spike them as well. these guys could be a real handful in battle. Never went without them as Carthage.

For diferent reason I was also very unpopular as the Seleucids and Carthage later on. After crushing early foes (Romans & Numidians). In my Carthage Campaign The Greeks and Germania were my only ally. but neither wanted to share map info with me, I offered money, tributes......... Once I offered 10,000 K for Greek map they snubbed me differently, very rude of them. I don't see the point of this alliance.

Hephaestus only Gives exprinence in Patheons and awsome temples, early on they only give armour upgrades.

[guineawolf]

recently i start a Seleucid campaign,i get a conclusion after few days,that since everyone around you are going to go into war with you,then the best way to survive is to gather all your troops and recruit as many as you can to attack egypt at first turn.

why?becoz if you can take egypt teritories as your new base(better income,higher level military buildings to recruit better units),then you are survive(coz you can recapture your old teritories after egypt teritories are taken).the numidians?they will not bother you since Scipii are on their back(North africa).That means you only need to fight at 1 side.then the rest is up to you......:yes:

[carbz]

do you have the troops necessary to fight egypt at the start though? esp if yo9u are sacrificing antioch etc.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Trust me. focus on eygpt. Destroying them will end the short campaign and I dont find it surprising the greeks turned on you. The selucide empire used to belong to greece and as you probaly know this game is based on history. The computer will know this and make the greeks turn on you. My advice....
Join the greeks other enemies, the House of Brutii and with them wipe out the greek peninsular!
MWAHAHAHAHA!

[Quintus.JC]

In my campaign the Greek Asian province was taken by Pontus. By the time I unified Asia they (Greeks) were long dead and buried. along with Macedon, with the Brutii controlling the Balkans.

[carbz]

well egypt are now out of the game for me, and I have taken carthage and, then given iot back to the carthagians who are the only people who will ally with me. I hoped to try and help the carthagians develop in the are again so they could help me fightthe scippi.

However i didnt exterminate the populace, and the city promptly rebelled on teh carthaginians lolz.

I took it back and by that time my diplomat over by the only carthagian city (in spain) had died and i cant get another one over rthere cos the scippi boats are bloody everywhere.

have taken athens, brutti just keep coming though dont they?Plus the scippi have some hard arsed diplomat that keeps bribing my captains away! the assassins i have, event ones that are quite experienced cant get at him ! I had quintus the killer or someone like that, he had two courtesans, a dancer, a monkey and a catamite hanging round with him, still got slain! Mind you anyone rolling with a crew like has gotta look suspicious......

[Quintus.JC]

Is there any other faction left in Asia?

[carbz]

dacia are massive, although their lands are crap, and they keep wanting to attack me over the mountains, near the old parthian capital city, so i built a fort, and now they come though that pass where there is a watchtower

Parthia is still in the top right hand corner of the map.

I think the lightblue faction is still going, thrace is it?

gaul and the Germans have bit the dust though.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Carbz:

The Selkies always get the shaft diplomatically. All of your neighbors have your death as a victory condition, so it really is a question of time before they're after you. Early on, war with ANY is likely to bring war with all as each subsequent group sees you as a weaker target as you're already at war.

By all means get trade early and keep them off your back as long as you can. Concentrate in Antioch and be ready for war to the knife when it kicks off. Sardis, Seluekia, and Hatra will pretty well have to defend themselves without help. If you have alliances with Greece and Parthia this will slow the onslaught on the two former.

Egypt first is, ultimately, your best hope. Crunch them and hold Antioch and you can bounce back well with Eggy monies. The longer the outliers hold -- without you just running -- the longer it will take your enemies to hammer at Antioch. Antioch is vital for its temple, hefelumps, and monies -- and you can hold it while killing sheaves of baddies with a good mixed garrison. Unfortunately, you'll barely have enough for this garrison and one stack going into Egypt at first -- tricky balance to work.

[Quintus.JC]

Have the Dacians got Scythian lands. Also how are the Romans doing? who controls the Balkans.

[carbz]

thanks seamus, im gonna do another game after this one on the hardest level cos i really enjoyed this fight thuus far.


re my current round, dacia have got some of scythia, but scythia are still hanging on.

Juli have wiped out gaul , brutti took out greece and i think control the balkans, cant see cos of fog of war. I have athens and the coity to the left of it though.

Scippi are in africa and the islands off the coast of italy.

At this stage, is it worth trying to cultivate the dacians? the refused an alliance before, but im thinking i could forget about trying to breath life into the carthaginians and cultivate the dacians.

[Quintus.JC]

The Dacians seems to be controlling the poorest regions in the game. You don't need to fight them. An alliance would be nice, the area around Soviet Union has the most remote settlement in the map. You don't want these lands. There are two ways for you to push into Italy. One is the Balkans another is Africa, in my campign i simplely wiped out Brutii controlled Greece and Macedonia and went into Italy next. The Balkan regions are some of the richest in the game. The Aegean sea is paved with gold, control all the lands around this and you'll sure never to run out of money again. How's your financial situation, what's your treasury.

[carbz]

im running at 10-15 k profit per turn after upkeep etc.

Im going to try and get the dacians on side, purely in the hope they may do some fighting of the brutti for me.

thanks for the tip re the balkan areas, i thought egypt was the richest bit, i will push on into greece and concentrate on the brutti there.

[Quintus.JC]

Watch out for the treasury, once you get more than 50K then your family members are more likely to receive corrupt traits. Which isn’t helpful at all.

What year is it? What sort of units is in your army which you fight the Romans with?

[The Wandering Scholar]

Try to just create army after army. And build build build

[Good Ship Chuckle]

In the sense of spamming a lot...
Militia Hoplites are a great way to crank out lots of armies, just like The Wandering Scholar reccomended.

[carbz]

im still to be convinced about militia hoplites after they got powned by the parthians cavalry. then again i am fighting more infantry now.

Re my army and timescale, I have armoured elephants and cataphracts, and silver shield pikeman. I think the treasury should be ok as I have quite a few citys that can produce decent ish troops, ie scythed chariots in helicarnassus (i have changed my view on them, they are good if you can take out archers surgical with cataphracts then send in the chariots to decimate infantry,) pikeman and elephants in antioch and alexandria, cats in jerusalem and the city below alexandria. OH the most recent troop i can build are onagers, that was a surprise.

i will bear the reasury in mind though. I seem to have quite a few catamites kicking about my family though, even my main assasin has got one! I respect everyones right to live the life they choose, but is there any particular reason for this????

romans have just started fielding praetorian legionaires at me.

sorry to be vague, again im at work. Well i say again, im here very frigging day lolz.

thanks for all the advice btw.

[The Wandering Scholar]

With a few upgrades I like milita hoplites to be holed up in a city, if you get forced to sally against Armenian missile then just auto-resolve.

[carbz]

is it generally best to autoresolve when you have inf against a cav heavy army?

[Quirinus]

Yes, but in my opinion not in this case, It's true that horse archers fare badly in auto-calc, but militia hoplites fare even worse. They have poor morale and crappy stats-- the computer does not account for the phalanx ability at all.

[carbz]

ahhhh, well im phalanx heavy, whenever i go and make a cup of tea my son starst playing the game, and he autresolves a few of the battles, thats where all my phalanxs have gone.

[Quintus.JC]

How about some SS legionaries to guide the flanks.

[carbz]

havent got them yet, im still a phalanx heavy army, although i will buy eastern spearmen cos the unit size is quite big and they make excellent grinding material.


im still not quite sure on the best way to set my troops up tbh, i rely on my general and latterly my cataphracts to try and flank the main force or take out archers, and then generally micro manage. still i get caught out of position with my phalanxs a few times, and no offence to anyone, i dont wanna back my phalanxs into the corner of the battlefield and use the red line.

whats the best set up do you think, to fight romans i mean.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Against the Romans, I find the following strategy to be just what the doctor ordered:

(Works best when attacking) Put your phalanges in a line parallel to the Romans front line. Then command them to go to a destination beyond the Roman front line as a group. Once you lower your spears, the entire roman front line will be egaged as a whole. :thumbsup:

This leaves you free to let your cataphracts unleash their terror on the inferior roman cav and flank the engaged legionairres. Works like a charm. :charm:

[Quintus.JC]

SS pikemen makes the core of your army, this is how I would set up my army against he Romans (all my army have at least two exprience + gold weapons and armour):

7 SS pikemen in one single line parralle of the enemy line.
2 SS legionaries on the flanks.
2 Armoured/War Elephants on the sides
2 Archers behind main lines
1 onager
1 General combine with 1 unit of companion cavalry on the left side, these guys are for flanking on the left
1 cataphract combine with another cataphract on the right side, they are for flanking on the right.
2 ramdom companion cavalry for killing enemy archers and range units before the main battle starts, they'll join the battle after.


I try to be defensive, generally they will come right at you, while the main infantry closes in the archers and ranged units will be left behind, the two Companions (at the front) will go around the infantry line and slaughter them (ranged units), any interving cavalry should be killed, given that companions are very capable melee cavalry.
When the main enemy line closes in pull the cataphracts and general further to the sides, let the infantry engage in the fighting, send the elephants into densely packed enemies for maxium effect, hit them with archers(onager will be useless now, I like to have 1 of them in the battle anyway). then use your general and cataphract to hit any weakend units, they should rout straight. The two random companion should of done their job now, use them to assult the enemy rear line. Now all enemy units should be in an total disarry and crumbling. kill all survivers, job done.

[carbz]

thanks for that. i kinda like sitting for them and waiting.

cant build companions or legionaires yet so im relying on generals and cataphracts to do all the hard work of taking out the ranged units.

how tough are selucid legionaires?

[Quintus.JC]

thanks for that. i kinda like sitting for them and waiting.

cant build companions or legionaires yet so im relying on generals and cataphracts to do all the hard work of taking out the ranged units.

how tough are selucid legionaires?

Cataphracts shouldn't be running around and chasing ranged units because they're too slow and lack stamina, they are there for the decisive blow. Greek cavalry can kill archers and onagers just fine, while companion is an obivious better choice because of their better melee capabilities. plus they're lighter than cataphracts.

The Seleucid legionaires are same copy as Roman Legionaries. No better, no worse. I only use them to guard the flanks as they don't use Phalanx formation and is therefore less vlnerble on the sides. They are also more flexible and can actually do some running.

[Praetor Rick]

Caution: rant ahead.

I'm about to give up on the Seleucids. The unit roster isn't *THAT* much better than Macedonia's, but wow, the strategic situation is just horrible. You start with 2 - count them, 2 - useful cities, one of which you will probably lose to Parthia quickly. You have two cities that cannot defend themselves because they have like 17 people (OK, they have 1200 or so people, not that there's much of a difference - a 1200 person settlement can't build much of anything). You're surrounded by hostile factions. Not just any hostile factions, but hostile horse archer factions - joy. Further, you cannot build any of the standard responses to horse archers. You get no horse archers of your own, nor do you have any elite foot archers. You don't even get any quality light cavalry, although militia cavalry isn't totally awful. Your best bet is cretan archers or just massive numbers of militia cavalry.

In exchange for this wretched position, you get the advantage of elephants, chariots (but not chariot archers, which might actually be useful), and at tier 5, after you've already won the game, a legionairre unit. Wow, that's *SOOO* worth it.

Also, your starting faction leader is a geezer and, for some reason, your family doesn't increase hardly at all. I've about had it with hitting "end turn" for the first time and finding out that my faction leader has died. I got enough of that playing as Germania

I've tried to like the Seleucids, I really have. I was prepared to like them even though I start under relentless assault by Egypt, but the Egyptian human wave attacks don't bother me. It's the consistently awful quality of my settlements that really gets to me. Yay, I have cash! Of course, I can't recruit squat with it because most of my settlements are garbage with low population. All that means is that I get to watch my governors (can't use them as generals since I can't actually recruit any decent armies for them to lead) collect awful embezzlement traits. Gee, that's totally worthwhile.

Tempted to upgrade a couple of the starting settlements out of crapdom with a mod just so this garbage faction will be worth playing. In the meantime, I'm done with Seleucids unless somebody has an *EARLY GAME* answer to horse archers that is available to them. Given the wretched respawn rate on Cretan Archers, they're not an answer, and Seleucid foot archers blow goats - although at least they're good enough to attrit away horse archers if I can manage to build them up fast enough. Playing Seleucids makes me wish I'd spent my afternoon going to the dentist of paying taxes or something.

[rvg]

Effective use of Militia Hoplites and Militia Cavalry is key to early survival with Seleucids.

Militia Hoplites will trash anything the A.I. throws at them, provided that they dont get flanked. Thus, you need lots of them. Don't bother with Levy Pikes though, they're utter garbage AND they eat up your population much faster than hoplites.

Militia Cavalry will deal quite nicely with enemy skirmishers and archers.

When the opportunity arises make a couple of Suicide Scythed chariot units. They are perfect for killing generals. At the start of the battle, flank the entire battle line, then send em towards the enemy general. Fire and forget it.

Hope this helps.

[Quintus.JC]

Don't bother with Levy Pikes though, they're utter garbage AND they eat up your population much faster than hoplites.




That is so true.:thumbsdown:

[Quintus.JC]

Caution: rant ahead.

I'm about to give up on the Seleucids. The unit roster isn't *THAT* much better than Macedonia's, but wow, the strategic situation is just horrible. You start with 2 - count them, 2 - useful cities, one of which you will probably lose to Parthia quickly. You have two cities that cannot defend themselves because they have like 17 people (OK, they have 1200 or so people, not that there's much of a difference - a 1200 person settlement can't build much of anything). You're surrounded by hostile factions. Not just any hostile factions, but hostile horse archer factions - joy. Further, you cannot build any of the standard responses to horse archers. You get no horse archers of your own, nor do you have any elite foot archers. You don't even get any quality light cavalry, although militia cavalry isn't totally awful. Your best bet is cretan archers or just massive numbers of militia cavalry.



It's true that the Seleucid starts with an impossible situation and also their early unit rooster are pants. But with a nice plan even mission impossible could be accomplished. Diplomacy is key to their survival. I've said this before, Only Armenia and Egypt are factions that the Seleucid must fight early on. Parthia is a big maybe, Greek and Pontus could be kept out of the fighting with a few trick or two. Sardis and Seleucia are abandonble. The key will be defeating Egypt early on. even if the Seleucid lose all their former lands, but with the newly accuired Egyptian lands, which are super rich with an insane population growth. They are more than capable of spanking Armenia and everyone else. Providing Egypt is dead and buried.

[Xipe Totec]

I once got assaulted by a half stack of :egypt: in a town with wooden walls containing only 2 Levy pikes. Thought I had no chance and with Militia hoplites that would have been true. To my amazement the AI attacked with only one ram to the gate. I put my Levy pikes on either side forming a V to trap the attacking army units as they entered, and routed the whole lot with minimal casualties.:beam:

Since then I have had more faith in relatively small garrisons of pikemen. They are okay against Egypt because the chariots - even the generals can't get anywhere against pikes. In similar situations against other factions I have found that large general cav can break through by sheer weight of impact. Other times my V at the gate with even phalanx pikes has been thwarted by the AI bashing loads of holes in the wall and outflanking you - even taking multiple routes to the town square to stop you blocking roads with a modest garrison.

Population depletion can be a problem early on as Seleucids though - more so than for Macedonia who have the same unit choice at that stage, and I usually play on huge which exacerbates the problem. Later on for larger cities Pike Levies can make a cheap garrison unit for cities not too likely to be attacked but too valuable to entrust to peasants, especially if you're playing on a level with aggressive rebels popping up unexpectedly a long way from the main war fronts.

[Quintus.JC]

I once got assaulted by a half stack of :egypt: in a town with wooden walls containing only 2 Levy pikes. Thought I had no chance and with Militia hoplites that would have been true. To my amazement the AI attacked with only one ram to the gate. I put my Levy pikes on either side forming a V to trap the attacking army units as they entered, and routed the whole lot with minimal casualties.:beam:

.


I've exprienced similar stuff. The Egyptian Faction leader and another FM turns up outside Damasacus with a allmost full-stack army. I only had the original FM inside with 3 Militia hoplite. I gave them up for dead. Two turns later they assulted the city with only one ram! Dumb AI:sweatdrop: , the army is made largely of Skirmishers and peasents along with some merceneary. The only formidible units were the Chariot archers and generals. I used all my Militia Hoplite to hold the gate with General behide them. Once the gate is down the peasant charged and routed, then the Skirmishers; still had ammo in hand and charged as well to engage in melee. The gate was stuffed with dead bodies then the Egyptian leader went on a suicide mission, charged his chariots right at the spears. Surprisingly half of them filtered through, only to be finished off by my general on horseback. More chariots charged and ended in a mass rout. My general came out and killed as many as he can. The Egyptians sent more human wave attacks later with tragic results:skull: . After I was able to train elephants my army crushed Egypt and hurried to finish the pest on the Northern frontier.:beam:

[Darkvicer98]

So far in my campaign i've gone completely aggressive against Egypt(page 1 of the guide gives some tips)and conquered sidon and Jerusalem. Next i'm going to take cyprus and alexandria. I haven't given Egypt any time to breathe because if i do it's full stack armies i'm up against. In all my settlements i've built many militia hoplites to withstand the armies of pontus and armenia(who've beseiged hatra). I'm also going to take the southern settlement of pontus if they don't own acyra(is that how it's spelt?).

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The Seleucid Empire isn't that hard to play actually ...
I usually attack from the very first turn almost everyone around me ..
Parthia will lose Susa and Egypt Sidon in turn 3 ...
Will take Halicarnassus with some mercenaries and rush towards Ancyra (I always tend to lose general there .. do not know why :thumbsdown: )
After the first 5 or so turns I regroup and retrain ... after that I just use bridge battle tactics against Egypt (they really really love to send there FMs against my pikes :inquisitive: ) and avoiding Parthians/Armenians in a field battle and the east will belong to me then ...
Pontus is a tricky one .. but not that hard ... just have to wait till they lose one of there big armies and then just attack there cities ... they always have some chariots in them .. so sometimes you just do not have to fight at all .. the chariots will finish the Pontic defenders if you are lucky ..
I once besieged Mazaka with Pontic leader and heir in it .. also 2 scythed chariots and some eastern infantry .. after couple of volleys from my cretans the chariots started to run amok .. the rest was just unbelieving .. they killed leader and heir and most of the bodyguards and the eastern infantry :laugh4: .. I think I just used the general to kill those who had survived ... this is why I do not like keeping my chariots inside the city ...

Anyway .. in the hands of a human player the seleucid can win .. but in the hands of the AI they will be gone before 250 :no:

[Praetor Rick]

Well, I've managed to get a Seleucid start that doesn't make me want to scream and throw my computer out of a window. Attacking Egypt early was absolutely *KEY*. By enslaving Sidon and Jerusalem, I was able to get the generally lame settlements on my northern frontiers large enough to finally start defending themselves. The other key is to go with the flow. Building tons of economy structures may be needed in other factions, and is useful even when you're as wealthy as the Seleucids - but what you really need isn't roads and ports, it's barracks and stables. The settlements generate absurdly huge amounts of cash with minimal development, but they're under assault regularly, so keep those military units flowing, and don't let up on Egypt.

I think I may make up a guide, called "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Militia Cavalry," because that's been the mainstay of my armies so far. Militia Hoplites, Levy Pikemen, and Peltasts are nice, but it's the Militia Cavalry that have allowed me to actually win battles. Somehow melding a sub-par missile cavalry unit with a terrible light melee cavalry unit has produced a good, solid, workmanlike unit of versatile cavalry.

[Darkvicer98]

My Seleucid campaign is going very well,i own all of the middle east,turkey,egypt,libya and cyreniaca. Egypt was the main enemy who attacked you constantly with full stack armies,however parthia,armenia and pontus only attack you once which if pontus conquers Tarsus they start attacking Antioch and armenia stay at Hatra. The key to a good start is to attack Egypt as soon as possible.

[Quintus.JC]

My starting Seleucids strategy was attacking Egypt as well, and trying to keeping everyone else around me happy at the same time. Major war with Egypt is impossible to avoid, they'll send human waves at you, full stack armies made of low quality troops. Parthia is likely to take Seleucia, for me Seleucia is too far away to matter anyway, Parthia can have it if they wish. Although I found bribing them could delay the fight for some time. Armenia is another fight which I found can't be avoided. They will come for Hatra no matter what. If they choose to batter through then they'll be slaughtered, as the formidible horse archers are almost useless in seige warfare, but if they camp outside they you got little chance of defeating them in the open, my strategy is to leave a few Militia Hoplite in Hatra, the first time Armenia comes they'll assult, and lose. They'll come again, after that they'll stay outside and happy to let you starve, I sally at the last turn, knowing it's a lost course anyway but don't want to give in without a fight, but one I loses. They won't keep Hatra for long, I don't mind losing Hatra but it's the gate to Antioch, and also it's between Seleucia and Antioch which makes Hatra a strategic place. Straight about Hatra is taken I'll move a army from Antioch, consisting of elephants and Milita Hoplites to Hatra, using the elephants to knock the gate open and send my Hoplites in, the idea is to use this oppertunity to slaughter all Armenian troops inside, they don't stand a chance in the cities and most Armenia family members died this way, retake the city and leaves some Milita Hoplites as garrison, if the Armenia try this again then repeat this action, the key is to NOT fight Horse Archers in the fields but to trap in the city walls and redure them useless. This will keep the Armenians at bay. War with Greece and Pontus for me is definitely not hard to avoid. leave Ancyra alone and Pontus will take it, after taking Ancyra they'll will either move for Nicomedia, or go for Pergamum. Either way the Greeks and Pontics will clash, Pontus always end up victorious and then they might think of betraying you but by then you should already destroyed Egypt and ready to take them on. Move all your family members to Antioch in turn 1 as there is no need for them to be elsewhere. Have 5 family members in one single army can definitely be an advantage. Wipe out Egypt, then deal with everyone else. It always works well.:beam:

[Darkvicer98]

The greek cities will eventually attack you,but they wait for years. You can't lose any cities,they're all important. If you lose one,like Hatra,the income of seleucia will go down by at least 2000 denarii. All the cities hold a strategic position:Antioch feeds armies to Damascus,Hatra and Tarsus,Seleucia is near Parthia,Hatra near Armenia,the settlement near Pergamum is near halicarnasus,Ancyra and Pergamum. Another vital settlement is the rebel Palmyra near Damascus which can feed armies to Antioch mand Damascus.

But as i said gather all your armies in Antioch and Damascus and attack sidon as soon as you start,then retrain your armies and train some militia hoplites then attack Jerusalem one turn after taking Sidon. By now the Egypt are left with Alexandria,Memphis,Salamis and Thebes. Don't give them any time and attack alexandria and Salamis then memphis then thebes. You can't go wrong. By now armenia and parthia(you should attack pontus instead of letting them attack you)have attacked you at Hatra and Seleucia. While you do all this train tons of militia hoplites in every settlement. When the time comes you'll have enough hoplites and peltasts to be ready to attack armenia and parthia. Take halicarnasus and Ancyra. Leave Nicomedia because the greeks like that settlement. At Mazaka train militia hoplites and militia cavalry to attack Sinope. When Pontus are left with Nicomedia attack Pergamum and Nicomedia and Rhodes. At Seleucia attack Susa and Dumantha. Then attack the Parthian capital. Armenia are left in the east now. Take the originally rebel settlement belonging to Armenia and Armenia should have a half full stack army near their capital. Take the other settlement belonging to Armenia and then gather a big army to attack their Capital. By now you should own all of the Middle East,Egypt and Asia Minor.

This is what i've done so far and it worked for me. Do what i say and you'll have an empire bigger than the Persians,mightier than the Romans and Richer than Carthage! Brign glory to The Seleucid Empire!:beam:

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I think the main flaw of the selucid's is their geographic location. If you look on the map, they are just one strip of land all the way from the Aegean to the middle east. They are a cross-section that is placed between five hostile factions. With their borders being strung out the way they are, its impossible to dedicate troops to all your borders. Thus you have to place your troops where they will have maximum effect, and leave everywhere else to fend for itself and pray. Now for the average human player this is not too big of a deal. But for the aimless AI, this is the Achilles' heel. One from which the AI cannot remove itself from.

I also found a sweet screenie of the selucids, and then I turned it black and white. It looks pretty BAMF...! enjoi
https://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3066/rometotalwar012703003yw4.th.jpg (https://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometotalwar012703003yw4.jpg)

[Darkvicer98]

Nice picture,Good Ship Chuckle. Thanks for the pm about my sig. Before it said "a brave man may full,but he cannot yield".

[Quintus.JC]

I also found a sweet screenie of the selucids, and then I turned it black and white. It looks pretty BAMF...! enjoi
https://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3066/rometotalwar012703003yw4.th.jpg (https://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometotalwar012703003yw4.jpg)

Nice picture.:beam: What's the background unit, or is it from a mod?

[Good Ship Chuckle]

@Darkvicer98
No problem dude. Just helping a brother out.

@QJC
I don't think it's a mod. I believe that it's a screenie of RTW when it first came out. Some units looked different then. And to be honest, I'm not quite sure what unit it is. I found it on IGN. :juggle:

[Ludens]

Nice picture.:beam: What's the background unit, or is it from a mod?
No, it's a pre-release screenshot. IIRC it was either a unit that was not included or the skin of the Seleucid officer.


I think the main flaw of the selucid's is their geographic location. If you look on the map, they are just one strip of land all the way from the Aegean to the middle east. They are a cross-section that is placed between five hostile factions. With their borders being strung out the way they are, its impossible to dedicate troops to all your borders. Thus you have to place your troops where they will have maximum effect, and leave everywhere else to fend for itself and pray. Now for the average human player this is not too big of a deal. But for the aimless AI, this is the Achilles' heel. One from which the AI cannot remove itself from.
It's pretty historical though. True, the Seleucids collapse faster than in history, but then the Romans expand way faster than they did historically.

[Darkvicer98]

My campaign is going great. I own half of Africa,all of the middle east,asia minor,today russia and i'm still going(hint:i'm bribing some of my enemies cities). The big empires are(in order from biggest to smallest):

1.The Seleucid Empire(me,32 settlements)
2.Britons(15 settlements)
3.Roman Julii(14 settlements)
4.Roman Scipii(8 settlements)
5.Roman Brutii(8 settlements)
6.Spain(5 settlements)
7.Numidia(4 settlements)
8.Gauls(4 settlements)
9.The Greek Cities(2 settlements)
10.Scythia(2 settlements)
11.Thrace(2 settlements)
12.Rebels(2 settlements)
13.Carthage(1 settlement)


Dacia,Macedon,Pontus,Armenia,Parthia and Germania have all been destroyed.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Hhhmmm....

You seem to be missing Egypt. They are niether existing nor destroyed.

LOl. It's not that I'm trying to find mistakes with your posts Darkvicer98, it's just that they seem to grab my attention so well. :laugh:

[Darkvicer98]

Yes Egypt is destroyed. Thank you Good Ship Chuckle.

[Magraev]

I played some with the seleucids last night (M/M). You have to learn to use militia hoplites to succeed!

I attacked Parthia and Egypt right away. Maybe I should have left Partia alone, but I managed to take Susa after a tough battle where my heir's bodyguard was down from 40 to 5 men.

I took Sidon and Jerusalem asap with my king and his army.

That's when the problems begin to show up. I have a hard time building anything resembling quality troops, relying on militia hoplites, peltasts and militia cavalry. Against a full stack of chariots, spearmen and bowmen from Egypt they are really overmatched. I bought every mercenary I could find too.

On top of that Pontus and Greece have declared war, and Armenia are marching towards Hatra. I really should have left Parthia alone...
:oops:

I think I can hold on though. Pontus is sieging Tarsus, but I think my militia hoplites can hold the town when the assault comes. They still only have eastern infantry. Hatra has also been reinforced against the suspected Armenian attack.

I just took the middle Egypt town (Memphis) when they stupidly withdrew their supporting army. I hope to hole op here and build some more militia...

On the western front I bribed a greek army and laid siege to Pergamun, while marching another (smallish) army with 2 units of cretan archers and some (you guessed it) militia hoplites toward Pontus' homelands.

Finally I am marching some you guess who's against parthias last town - this time supported by *gasp* archers!

All in all I'm having lots of fun with this faction. I fear I'll be too strong if I manage this crisis, and the game will become boring.

[I of the Storm]

This is very likely. Once you are done with Asia Minor, Egypt and the Caucasus, you're settled. The only challenge that remains then is the Romans and the battles against them will eventually become repetitive too.

So for me, the only fun phase of the game with the Seleucids is the beginning.

[Darkvicer98]

Magraev i think you should have left Parthia alone,however they would have attacked you if you had not declared war. Armenia and Pontus would have attacked you eventually and the Greeks wouldn't have declared war unless you insulted them in some way.

As with Egypt time is precious. If you give them space and time they build huge armies so i recommend attacking them at Sidon straight away with all armies in the surrounding settlements. After you take the East theres Scythia,Numidia and The Greek Cities. Recommend you conquer Greece then Numidia and Carthage. Try to avoid war with the Romans as long as possible until your ready.

[Magraev]

I absolutely agree about attacking Egypt asap.

I once tried a game where I defended against Egypt while attacking Pontus, Armenia and Parthia first. It went well at first, but after a while Egypt had several full stacks wandering about north of Sidon, withing striking distance of Antioch - not good. They can simply out-produce and out-fight the seleucids in a straight fight in the desert. Better archers, axemen and killer chariots are more than a match for the one advantage (elephants) that the seleucids have.

I got tired of that campaign after a while of endless full-stack battles. This way lets you actually fight with something other than militia hoplites though.

I agree that I should have left Parthia alone, and maybe tried to bribe their cataphracts over to my side first. I did abosolutely nothing to annoy greece other that grow strong. All my neighbours are allied against me now, so I have never had any alliance. I hope to ally with macedon, who are at war with greece too.

[Darkvicer98]

If you take Sidon straight away the Egyptians have loss part of their big income and taking Cyprus is also a good way to split up their income.

Parthia attack Seleucia early in the game,about 3-5 turns in with Cataphracts and Horse Archers. Armenia attack Hatra and Pontus attack Tarsus like you said if left alone for too long. The Greek Cities may sometimes be your ally and sometimes your enemy but the eventually attack you when you become the power in Asia Minor(Turkey).

Macedon will be a powerful alliance. They have a good income and they fight both the Romans and Greeks so they'll be a good ally. Plus the Aegean is a good place for trading.

I found it slightly boring after i conquered the East. It was the challenge in The Seleucid's Campaign but after you've done it you feel theres nothing more to do really....

[glyphz]

This thread has indeed been a treasure grove for advice in playing TSE, a faction i'd avoid due to its very challenging position and its starting units, despite its awesome roster and rich lands.

Advices that i adopted from this thread:
1. "Destroying egypt from the get-go" (sidon and jerusalem first, cyprus, and final thrust south from alexandria before they expand).
TOP Priority of early campaign, higher than taking a rebel settlement nearby) Gone by at most turn 15.
Seeing egypt as the first 'Faction Destroyed' can make you shed a tear in pride:medievalcheers:

2. "siege halicarnassus with general and 2 militia hoplites strategy on the 1st turn, rushing to the gate to bottle-up sallying defenders" strategy.
Pure genius. ~:lightbulb:An insane idea, considering the towns garrison (cretan, rhodian slinger, mil. hops, and 2 greek hops!!!:shocked2:) that i just had to try it out. Was so surprised when i somehow got it to work (save file a must!!!) with battle ending in a Draw, but a ram and 1 cretan merc later, and the towns yours.
*Followed this with taking rhodes (once garrison is smaller, + a port in aegean very early is very valuable) and pergamum followed by rebel kydonia.
*always be on the look out for cretans, followed by rhodians slingers (can deal a ton of damage to a garrison via a hole on the wall by ram, eles, or spy, makes sieges more manageable), hoplites (more reliable early access troops), or thracians (offensive troops for flanking, defending flanks, which u lack early, optional).
* sea trade wonder + farming wonder, means money ain't a problem, and can afford to put most towns to growth/low taxes.

[glyphz]

(continued)
3. "start building cavalry stables in antioch by at least turn 3."
early elephants are a must not for trampling, but for ramming gates, wooden walls. same movemnt points on the campaign map as cavalry, more reliable than spies early on.
Helps a lot in when trying to finish off egyptians (nile cities) or pontic starting towns or establsihing a quick base in greece or italy/sicily before reinforcement arrive to help in sally.:7ninja:

4.cythe chariots (via blacksmith) are excellent cavalry killers, chasing foot missile troops from harassing your infantry line and killing the general. watch out for spears and missile troops aiming at them, chase them off with militia cav. to give the chariots the opening to whatever their target. Always needs to be on the move once committed and may need a bit of micromanagement to be effective. Double-click ahead of it once they slow down, to keep them from stalling, or by playing with the loose/tight formation button after the charge impact.
High risk (run amock anyone?), high reward (general killer, unit that instills fear, and can start the "rout train"):smash: . effectiveness lessened in sieges

Something i found useful, concerning the opportunistic Parthians in Susa.
1st turn move all infantry to be used in taking susa on the border, keep gen +other cav in Seleucia as garrison, build peasants.
2nd turn: merge gen +cav to infantry and attack the the parthian army that moves out of the city. Auto-resolving usually leads to victory (add mercs prior to battle for better guarantee), since horse archers are a pain to face on the battle map, they suck at auto-resolve. You can now siege Susa with what's left of its garison, and take it with less hassle due to their depleted garrison. Better than facing their full garrison.

As everyone mentioned here, the 1st few turns are crucial and can make or break the rest of your campaign:knight:

[Quintus.JC]

Milita hoplites suck at auto-resolve as well. However most of the Parthian force will be around their capital at the start. So it gives you time to take Susa.

[Kietharr]

General information:

Seleucids are basically Macedonians with elephants and chariots. You have access to the inexpensive and reliable phalanx pikemen, the pricier but practically unbeatable silver shield pikemen, in addition to cataphracts (best heavy cavalry out there), armored elephants, scythed chariots, and even legionary copycats. You'd be hard pressed to find a faction with a lategame lineup half as diverse or as powerful. Unfortunately, lategame I personally leave most of their lineup untouched, though it all sees use throughout the game. Silver Shield pikemen, Armored Elephants, Cataphracts, and maybe a few heavy onagers are pretty much all you could ever need to crush anything out there on the field. Silver Shield Legionaries do see occasional use on my part if I hit a heavily fortified city that I can't wait on, they're just as good as the roman ones but in the field I feel pikes are still superior in most cases.

The most solid general Seleucid tactic is the hammer and anvil, a tactic used heavily throughout the ancient world. Line up a bunch of pikemen, these are your anvil. Seleucid pikemen are difficult to break through. After your pike line is established, put the best cavalry you can muster (cataphracts for seleucids) or elephants on the flanks. Elephants have the added effect of lowering enemy morale, which is good, but elephants also have fewer men per unit and are slower for the ensuing butchery of running down your routed enemy, I find it is best to have one or two units of elephants in addition to your cavalry. All elephants can be expensive and will let more enemies escape. Anyways, maneuver your cavalry further out to the sides and get behind the enemy. When they meet your line of pikes, charge your cavalry in, it will usually cause mass routing and mass routing results in mass death.

Chariots tend to make the newer Seleucid player ask "why? I have elephants and decent light cavalry! Why bother with chariots?" Chariots have two big advantages on eles. They are faster and they work better against loose formations while being stronger than light cavalry, they are also cheaper than elephants. They're worth having around at least until you can hire Cataphracts, which also obsolete your light cavalry.

Basic tactics against each faction:

Egypt: You're fighting them early game, your best units against them are elephants and money. Bribe when possible, it's all about survival early game. Use levy pikemen to distract their superior spearmen while you charge them from behind with your elephants, that will usually rout them. Their archers can rout your elephants, use generals and other cavalry to handle them when possible. Their chariots and chariot generals are extremely difficult to deal with early game no matter how you do it, as they destroy your generals and your greek cavalry. I've found that Peltasts do a decent job but of course need support, and something to distract said chariots while the peltasts are hitting them. If you can kill Egypt early game, you essentially have the game in the bag imo.

Pontus: Early game their armies consist mostly of cheap infantry and militia cavalry, all easily routed. Elephants and Chariots will pretty much deal with anything they throw at you.

Armenia: Essentially the same as Pontus but with horse archers. HA's are best dealt with via bribes or Greek Cavalry in a pinch.

Parthia: Horse Archers are a pain, same deal as Armenian HA's though, bribe them. The big difference here is Parthia also gets great heavy cavalry fairly early on, which decimates your greek cavalry. Elephants help but not much. The best thing that can be said about Parthia is they're bad at sieges and only have two provinces near you.

Scythia: Same deal as Parthia, lots and lots of cavalry, hard to handle. Again, they're terrible at sieges, bribe away their stacks in the field and smash their cities.

Greek States: Their spears are shorter than your pikes, you win. Their ranged troops die to chariots and light cavalry, their own cavalry is very limited and the AI seldom uses it. Anvil and Hammer ruins their hoplites even more than your pikes do alone.

Macedon: They're basically Seleucids without elephants or chariots and faster teched heavy cavalry. Elephant charge the phalanxes from behind once they are distracted by your own phalanxes. Macedon tends to be weak or dead by the time you're in any position to come into conflict with them due to your enemies keeping you busy for the first half century or so of the game.

Thrace: hahaha I love fighting Barbarians with phalanxes. Their troops are mostly lightly armored which lets a phalanx work as a true meatgrinder. Rhompia or not, they don't really hold a candle to your pikes. Standard tactics here really. Use cavalry to kill their ranged units, let them massacre themselves on your pikes, bring cavalry around to rout and run them down.

Dacia: See Thrace, buncha unarmored barbarians. Phalanxes ruin them.

Romans: The only things that Elephants really fear are Javelins and pikes, romans don't do either that well. Use chariots to cut out their javelinmen and use cheap phalanx pikes to absorb the pilas. Elephant/cataphract charge from behind or flanks will decimate them. Greek Cavalry doesn't really work as well here due to their lack of armor and the Roman's love of it. This is unfortunate because Greek Cavalry are cheap and have cool hats :( . Armored Elephants are almost an ideal counter unit for pretty much everything rome has. Up until the reforms, you can kill most roman armies simply with an upfront large scale war elephant charge, though standard elephants tend to lack the punch needed to break through the sea of principes they love to build. Chariots also decimate the early romans, the only units they have that stands up to a good chariot attack are the principes.

Numidia: All I have to say is ugh. Numidia is probably one of the most solid Anti-Seleucid factions out there if played correctly due to javelin cavalry being like horse archers that can kill elephants. Fortunately, in the campaign they usually get killed off by the much easier to deal with Scipii before you deal with them. In multiplayer though a well played Numidia is the most reliable way to crush elephant spam from my experience.

Carthage: Your pikemen destroy most elephants. I don't have a ton of experience with Carthage because the Scipii almost always kill them off before I get to them as Seleucids, almost a nonfactor faction.

Spain: Similar to Romans, Elephants decimate most of their units but watch out for Javelins, use the standard chariots/cavalry to keep them busy.

Gauls: Barbarians, usually weakened to a nonfactor by the time you're near them. Same as the Thracians/Dacians really. Phalanxes ruin lightly armored troops, period. Another thing to keep in mind with barbs is that they tend to have poor morale, and are dependent on that initial charge to pull through for them. Once you've halted their charge they will generally rout easily.

Britons: They are no different than the Gauls to the Seleucids, chariots work against loose formations of light and heavy infantry, not against pikes.

Germania: oh look barbarians that don't tend to wear a lot of armor and rout fairly easily, I wonder what absolutely slaughters these?

Hope someone finds it helpful.

[Quintus.JC]

Hello Kietharr, welcome to the guild. That's an excellent first post there as well. :beam:



Egypt: You're fighting them early game, your best units against them are elephants and money. Bribe when possible… you essentially have the game in the bag imo.


I absolutely agrees with you on this one, if you’re able to wipe out the Egyptians and ocuppy their former land, then even if you had lost all your former land its still a much easier task than having the Egyptians around. :egypt:



Pontus: Early game their armies consist mostly of cheap infantry and militia cavalry, all easily routed. Elephants and Chariots will pretty much deal with anything they throw at you.


I find the best way to deal with Pontus early on is to ally with them, keep them off attacking you long enough until you’ve dealt with your other many enemies, then take Pontus. Although the chances are that they will betray you when you least want them to. :sweatdrop:



Armenia: Essentially the same as Pontus but with horse archers. HA's are best dealt with via bribes or Greek Cavalry in a pinch.

Parthia: Horse Archers are a pain, same deal as Armenian HA's though, bribe them. The big difference here is Parthia also gets great heavy cavalry fairly early on, which decimates your greek cavalry. Elephants help but not much. The best thing that can be said about Parthia is they're bad at sieges and only have two provinces near you.


Bride does work, but is it better to spend the money on your own troops than theirs. I find the best way to deal with Eastern Factions is to fight them in sieges. And it works! City fights makes the HA obsolete, and pretty much does the same to other cavalries since there is no space for them to fight to their best plus with phalanx troops even a couple of militia hoplites could deal devastating blows to even the mightiest of Parthian or Armenian armies.
The above are really the only essential factions, by the time you have to fight the rest you should beat them silly with your high-tier units. The Seleucid boast the most diverse unit rosters, and there is no stopping you from winning the imperial campaign providing you deal with all the early threats, which is very hard situation for most players. :yes:

[Darkvicer98]

I have noticed a few things. Pontus,Armenia and Parthia only attack once at the settlement closest to them, you beat them and after that its just war but nothing happens for a long time. Egypt is your main enemy.

[Quintus.JC]

I have noticed a few things. Pontus,Armenia and Parthia only attack once at the settlement closest to them, you beat them and after that its just war but nothing happens for a long time. Egypt is your main enemy.

I found it rather easy to keep Pontus and Parthia at bay, with alliances, bribes and tributes. But Armenia is really something else, they will try to take Hatra, no matter what you try, no matter how many times you beat them, no matter how big your force is.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If you're having trouble in the early game, I have a couple of pointers:

- Set taxes in all cities at very high. Yes, this will limit growth. However, starting with Turn 2 you should be financially set for the rest of the game. It allows you to support all required armies as well.
- Susa is the key. Take it quickly. It's a city at the start of the game, which is rare. Upon capture, enslave the populace which will more than make up for the loss of population caused by high taxes.

You should now have enough both money and people to comfortably construct your armies. Parthia should be crippled by this point, aside from their one starting army with cataphracts. Up to you whether you want to finish them off by taking Arsakia. I did. Armenia is a bigger problem and *will* go after Hatra. If you beat them off, be careful about counterpunching too quickly - I took a 500-strong army (and 200-ish of them were peasants) deep in enemy territory and encountered a full stack (+/- 1500) waiting for me and it took some serious magic to come out of that one with a victory.

Egypt, naturally, is difficult, but having Antioch and Sidon should supply you with enough troops to stay on the offensive. Keep enslaving all large towns or above until all of your cities are at least at large town level (shouldn't take too long).

It is possible, since you're both rich and populous, to successfully run several wars at a time, even in the early game. Just make sure you devote the proper amount of attention to each front. Another benefit to taking Susa is that it seals the back door early.

[Darkvicer98]

I haven't been to this guide in a while but i see others are making their strategies. But i doubt breaking up Parthia will help, Parthia have the weakest economy and infantry in the game. As your strategy, GeneralHankerchief is to enslave the population i guess your playing on Huge army settings?

[GeneralHankerchief]

No, I do Large. But I also don't even attempt building Levy Pikemen (120 per unit) as opposed to militia hoplites until I know my cities can handle it.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Last time I played the Selucids I dominated the entire Mediterranean before I was even able to build Companion cavalry. I blame the militia hoplites and their ability to defend cities so well at such an early stage. So to make the game more interesting I decided for this next time I would give myself a handicap....and so far it has made the game more fun and challenging. Here's what I did:

I promised not to go on the offensive in the east. This means no attacking Pontus, Parthia or Egypt. No matter how tempting the ill defending city was, I would not attack it. The only area I gave myself consent to attack is in the west. So I began attacking the Greeks relentlessly straight from the beginning, while in the east I prepared for the worst. I drained most of Damascus to make a militia hoplite horde and upgraded walls in all settlements.

The effect:
Once past the beginning stages of the game I have suffered on average 1.5 seiges per turn in the east. I've had some really epic ones where I was fending off cataphracts with militia hoplites. I've lost count the number of Egyptians that have died beneath the walls of Antioch. I've seriously had some fun defending my towns against astonishing odds.
>In the west I was forced to improvise with what ever I got. Hiring the unit of Cretan archers is critical at the beginning in Anatolia was essential. I have fought stack after stack to get a foothold on mainland Greece, whether it be Greek, Macedonian, or even Scipii!

I seriously recommend playing with this handicap for those players who are serial winners with Seleucia (settings on VH/H). It'll get you some amazing sieges in the east and some intense all or nothing battles in the west.
:2thumbsup:

[Darkvicer98]

Sounds very tempting, i'll give it a try sometime. At the moment i'm playing with Brutii on conquering the East but strangely I've gone from Apollonia to Thermon to Athens to Halicarnassus~:confused:. But Halicarnassus is a great place for recruiting Mercenaries: Cretan Archers, Rhodian Slingers, Merc Hoplites, Thracian Mercs and Peltasts.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

All the way the Halicarnassus eh? You sound a little strung out, even if you're getting some good mercs in the process. I imagine the Macedons would have you hard pressed on mainland greece, to prevent such an endeavor.

[Agent Miles]

Great advice here! By using Katank’s blitz guide and my good friend Franconicus’ cavalry army tactic, I have nearly doubled the size of the S.E. in the first ten turns. I play VH/VH with huge units and no mods, so my only problem so far is finding enough citizens to man my armies.
One trick I use against the all cavalry armies of Parthia and Armenia is to trap them in a siege. After I took Susa, I built a fort at the bridge south of that settlement and stationed one Militia Hoplite there to slow down the returning Parthians. The AI put them under siege. Right before they took the fort, I stationed an army next to it. The Parthians took the camp and then could go no further due to my zone of control. Now I put them under siege and the next turn my hoplites had four HA and some skirmishers in a nice little box. I did the same thing to the Armenians who had taken Hatra with a FM and three HA. The AI cavalry force can’t retreat and gets annihilated in close quarters by men with pointy sticks.
I have not been able to bribe anyone, although the most cash I’ve had at any one bribe was only about 6k. So I can’t recommend bribery as a tool anymore and I have not needed it. The S.E. can beat anyone with a solid hoplite center and militia cav with FM’s on the flanks. I habitually encircle and annihilate the AI forces. I’m getting ready to attack the Nile settlements with my army’s brand new elephants!
One other hopefully original thing I did on the first turn was to have my diplomat barter with Egypt for trade rights, my map info and my assurance that I would attack the rebels in return for 2750 denari. This slightly stunted their initial turn and enabled me to hire more mercs.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

That is a pretty nifty tip--whereby you trap the HA in a fort. Though my personal favorate way to deal with HA as the Seleucids is to cajole the Parthians/Armenians into a siege with militia hoplites. The computer always says that the odds are terrible in your favor because of the militia hoplites poor stats. However the computer is not taking into account human skill and the phalanx ability. When they breach the walls, the hoplites act like a new wall (except this wall has got spikes!). The best part is that now the computer thinks it can its units through the breach. However the HA's get impaled on the pikes, and shamelessly rout themselves. :shame:

I prefer that tactic when dealing with the HA armies of Parthia/Armenia. However the only down side compared to your method is that mine requires a siege which hinders population growth, trade, and varnishes your beautiful countryside with devastation. My method is easier on the battlemap, while yours is better on the campaign map. It really boils down to taste and where one feels most strong.
:7teacher:

[Agent Miles]

Interesting. Don't the AI cav eventually rout off the map though, i.e., survive to trouble you another day? Also, on VH/VH they actually wait and starve you out. My way the whole AI stack dies to the last man in one battle. :)

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Don't the AI cav eventually rout off the map though, i.e., survive to trouble you another day?
Nope. Because they are usually exhausted from running into the city and fighting. Then as they rout my fresh cav pursue them and cut them to pieces.


Also, on VH/VH they actually wait and starve you out.
Maybe you're AI is unusually smart. I play the campaign on VH and the AI can never resist from assaulting my city full of levys and militia phalanges. :tongue3: All the computer calculates are the stats. It can't calculate that I am a cunning human that uses the almighty phalanx to my complete advantage. :whip:

[Numerius]

I don't recall seeing this posted before. You can hide your phalanx troops in the woods by taking them off the Phalanx mode.

[TheRTWTiger]

lol that explains things :P

[oz_wwjd]

In my Campaign as the Selucid Emire I think the unit I used the most was the mighty diplomat,mainly to bribe anything Egyptian and Pontus that attempted to siege my cities,much easier than fighting them. I started with one stationed at Antioch,one around Halicarnassus and one around Susa. I also bribed a egyptian Diplomat that was hanging around Damascus for some reason,as it was making me nervous that they'd try to bribe me,and he acompanied my invasion force into the heart of the Egyptian homelands and bribed armies that attempted to stop my march on Alexandria.

I also found a use for the Elephant,mainly countering those Egyptian Chariot General charges that would try to get into the rear of my Pikemen formation. True the elephant goes berserk around 40% of the time,but not having my Levy Pikes diced my chariots seemed to be worth it,also mainly my elephants went amok into the heart of the opposing force and watching them create havoc while I ran my pikemen up,and proceeded to impale the emeny on my spears was funny as hell.

[Alrik]

Strange faction this. it has a great roster, and the money to buy the units, but not the population to do so.
What I did was be horribly offensive, I notice I wasn't the only one who figured attacking Halicarnassus on the first turn was a good idea. I do the same with Palmyra, while moving the troops of antioc down so that I can attack Sidon the turn after that. While the Palmyra army goes down to Bactra and then Petra and I moved the Halicarnassus force to Creta, hence I retained peace with Greek Cities, but I wonder if perhaps taking on Rhodos would be just as good an option, or to do so after Crete has been taken (The forces Brutii land on Crete are beyond pathetic and there's 3-4 years between the landings as well, enough time for any army to become bored and restless.)

What I really don't get in this guide is the constant praise of two worthless units, the militia hoptilites, while not useless, they don't hold anything on the levy pikemen, who do everything they do, but twice as well at least and they have the same upkeep (150 denarii for 120 men is the same as 100 denarii for 80 men.) The difference being that the militia can hold up to a cavalry charge and the levy litterally slaughters a cavalry charge, they also have the issue of a larger unit, so they can take a whole lot of punishment before they become small useless units. Same thing with holding a line of infantry, the levy keep the foe out of harms way for quite a while, the militia gets engaged right away.

The second of that I've seen lots of people recomending that I really don't understand, is the horrible peltasts. The peltasts are good for three things, dieing emptying your coffers whith their whopping 170 denarii upkeep and worst of all, killing your own troops. Since they have such a horribly short range, if you want them to fire their missileweapons at all, you have to deploy them behind your front line, but this creates the problem that when they can fire at the enemy then they are usually charging your front line and oddly enough infantry is fast enough a target for the peltasts to set their aim smack in the middle of your own front line, which true enough is where the foe should be by the time they've fired, problem being that that's where your troops are and you're fireing into the fronts of your enemy, where thay are well protected and the best way of killing troops is by striking them from behind and that's where the peltasts are attacking your own troops. When I've deployed peltasts they have often been the cause of over half of my casulties! That's my own troops killing my own!
Peltasts only use is at wooden walls where you can run them up all the way to it and have them toss their javelins at the units defending the gate, a job archers later does a much better job at.

Yeah regarding archers, you want those and quickly, Susa and Sidon are two cities that can produce them after just a few turns (Susa being able to build the needed upgrade straight away and you want them against all the damn horse archers you're going to face. While Sidon needs to upgrde the city firs and might not have the first building of the archery tier either.) In the meantime there's beduin archers and Scythian mercenaries to be had. (Go to the bridge north west of Hatra for the Scythian HA)

You really want to attack the Egyptians straight away, because like everyone else they start with their armies dispersed, which means that if you give them a few turns of peace they will move them both towards you and then they will attack instead, but most importantly they will merge all their useless little miniarmies into huge stacks of possible doom. Remember divide and conquer and in the beginning the Egyptians are already divided, so all you need to do is conquer!

The Armenians will come for Hastra, but if you push firmly in the east you'll find the Armenians' cities lined up nicely with Parthia's capital, so all you need to do is keep pushing and soon enough Hastra will be out of harms way.
The most immidiate threats are actually to Petra and Tarsus as Egypt will try to bribe Petra and Pontus will try to bribe Tarsus and failing that sieging it. Likewise will Pontus go for Sardis. Luckily Pontus has the worst troops of all your enemies, might have the most troops and the largest armies, but nothing that a line of levy pikemen can't handle even in the open field.
Thus again, make sure you produce levy instead of militia as quickly as possible, militia will get overrun by the Pontian hoards, levy will shrug them off and ask when the battle will begin. Remember that Pontus really likes to flank, so guard your flanks, create a friggin' O of spears if you need to. In other words, against Pontus, it's a really bad idea to put all your spears in your front line because you'll probably find yourself flanked if you do.

I'm sure there's more, put that's what pour out of the top of my head at the moment. :P

[Craterus]

Started this today. Set up alliances with Pontus and Parthia as quickly as possible and I have a diplomat en route to Armenia for the same purpose. I've never played as the Seleucids before but I can imagine they'll be a nuisance around Hatra with or without an alliance.

Took Jerusalem and Sidon in the first 3 turns, according to the katank method detailed way back in the first few pages of the thread. Faction leader (Antiochus) attacks Sidon from Antioch, Demetrius attacks Jerusalem from Damascus (had to hire 1 unit of eastern infantry and 1 unit of bedouin warriors for the Jerusalem battle). I then leave as little behind as possible and march on the Nile Delta.

And then Antiochus dies, on the 4th turn, at age 61. What are the chances? Aristarchus becomes the faction leader all the way over in Seleucia and I've lost a 90-man heavy cavalry unit that would have been vital in the blitz on Egypt. I stopped there so I'm not sure what my next move is. Maybe I'll see how young Demetrius gets on without his Dad.

Salamis is probably priority #1 for the next turn. I've only got 1 ship at Antioch but hopefully I can get my army there in one turn. I'd quite like to prise Rhodes off of the Greeks but I'm not too keen on starting a full-blown war because I want to give them the best possible chance against the Romans. I'll probably target Parthia and Armenia after Egypt, not a fan of fighting horse archers and I'd like to spend as little time as possible chasing them around the battle map.

[Vincent Butler]

The Seleucids are fairly easy. Good cav, pikemen and legionaries, and elephants. The Silver Shield Legionaries have the same stats as the Roman Legionary Cohort, the problem is, you need your best barracks, and they take two turns to make. My method of using Seleucia is defensive at first. Because your first unit is Militia Hoplites, in my opinion the best first infantry unit, you can just barricade your streets when you are attacked. Granted, I have only used them on Easy/Easy, but you can build up a military while the enemy throws themselves onto your phalanx. Use one or two of your towns to build up a good army (Antioch is probably the best for this). Egypt usually attacks it just when I am getting ready to move my army out, so I have started putting my armies that I am training on ships in a harbor, that way I can move them out as soon as I am done building the army. I also keep a backup army of elephants when I have gotten out of elephant territories, to replace my elephant losses. Seleucids are pretty well set for money, so that should not be an issue. Once you get to Phalanx Pikemen, you can really start your offensive.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Granted, I have only used them on Easy/Easy

Aye, and there's the rub~;)

Because if, on more difficult settings, you do this :


My method of using Seleucia is defensive at first.

......then you will be facing hordes of Chariot Archers for which, early in the campaign, Seleucia has no good answer except to throw scads of cheap militia cavalry at them. Later on that will change with the acquisition of Cretan Archers fronted by pikes, but you have to get to that stage first:sweatdrop:


Because your first unit is Militia Hoplites, in my opinion the best first infantry unit

.....able to hold their own against Nubian Spears, but inferior to Nile Spears. Once Desert Axemen begin to appear, your Militia Hoplites will simply melt into the desert sands. And you absolutely have to protect their flanks or their poor morale will have you wondering where your army went:creep: Get to Levy Pike ASAP...they at least have more mass and are able to withstand Desert Cav and Nile Spear much better. Of course, they are only transitional to the better pike available to the Selkies. Phalanx Pike will be a mainstay for quite awhile until you can get Silver Shield Pike.


Seleucids are pretty well set for money, so that should not be an issue.

That is your "ace-in-the-hole". Once you you beat off the initial assaults by the Big E, Pontus, and everyone else:laugh4: you can start cranking out assault armies.

[Vincent Butler]

The problem with Levy Pikemen is their defense is so low. The extra attack is countered by low defense. Of course, Pharoah's Guard can push their way through either unit. I just make sure the Desert Axemen don't penetrate the phalanx. They are not very good anyway, from my experience. Again, Easy/Easy. Most of my fighting is done in the city. Of course, once I get to Phalanx Pikemen that is all I train. I don't use Silver Shield Pikemen much, mainly as garrison troops, until late in the campaign because of the level of barracks required to build them. That is why I do not use Silver Shield Legionaries, who require a Royal Barracks. Ditto for the cav. Too bad it is Cataphracts in the Elite Cav Stables and Companion Cav in the Royal, instead of the other way around.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The problem with Levy Pikemen is their defense is so low. The extra attack is countered by low defense.

True that their defense of 5 is three lower than the militia (don't really agree with that, just like I don't agree with Silver Shield Legionaires having a defense as high as 22 while the best Seleucid phalanx unit, Silver Shield Pike, is as low as 13~:confused:). But they have 50% more mass, and that is the key. If you stretch the unit a bit on deployment, it's very difficult for an enemy unit to get a "wraparound" effect on them resulting in some attacks being from the flank...which will negate the shield bonus.

I've never conducted custom battles to prove this....I just know that Levy Pike perform better for me than Militia Hoplites. I believe total mass outweighs the lesser defense stat, and using the sarissa has your phalanx staying with their pikes while the militia hoplites will be switching to their swords much sooner because an enemy unit can get in close (thereby lessening their defensive value once their phalanx begins to disintegrate):shrug:

Of course I'm not suggesting the use of Levy Pike on a long-term basis, but they seem more serviceable than Militia Hoplites until you can get to Phalanx Pike....

I like having a couple of Silver Shield Pikes to anchor my center....their better stats and very high morale make them an extremely hard nut to crack. The morale bonus will make you very thankful to have them at higher difficulty settings where the AI gets insane combat boosts:yes:


Too bad it is Cataphracts in the Elite Cav Stables and Companion Cav in the Royal, instead of the other way around.

Odd that you would prefer Militia Hoplites over Levy Pike going with a statistically higher defense, yet prefer Companion Cavalry over the heavy Cat, where the same situation occurs [attk/def] (10/17 for Companions, 7/23 for Cataphracts). IIRC, the charge bonus is the same for either unit. Don't get me wrong, I like the Companions, but IMHO the Cats are better "line-busters" because here the 6 extra points of defense really does help. Again, I have not conducted custom battles to test this...just that on the battlefield the Cats seem better at breaking infantry. I usually use Companions to counter enemy cavalry, being lancers and all. Sorta like using Yari Cav in Shogun:shrug:

A devastating combo is to have your Cats follow the Ellies in....enemy center>>>>SPLAT; have the Companions follow the Scythed Chariots....enemy flanks>>>>SPLAT:laugh4:

[Vincent Butler]

Scythed Chariots are one unit I absolutely do NOT make. They seem pointless. Especially as your main enemy, Egypt, has a phalanx, and even slingers are effective against chariots. Found that out, incidentally, as Parthia against Scythed Chariots. The main thing about Companion Cav is that they are faster. And I use cavalry different than infantry. Infantry does my main fighting, so I prefer higher defense. What cavalry I train depends on the role I want for them. For running off ranged units or enemy light cav I use Greek/Roman Cav. I pin the enemy with my heavy infantry, then slam them with my heavy cav or lancers, if I am Macedon. I use Cataphracts, but would rather have Companion Cav, and do not use elephants much, it would take too much effort to try to find out how to use them effectively and training is an issue. Where elephants can be trained, Egypt is there with their Pharoah's Bowmen. I have never played Shogun, just Rome and a little Medieval 2.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Scythed Chariots are one unit I absolutely do NOT make. They seem pointless.

Scythed Chariots, if used properly, can be a very effective weapon. I would not consider myself an expert on their use, but here's a few things I've learned. First, their main function is not to generate kills. If you zoom close you'll see that they knock more soldiers over than they kill. However, there is a hidden plus to that...they totally disrupt enemy unit formation, making that unit extremely vulnerable to a cavalry charge. This is why I suggested an echelon attack with the chariots leading followed closely by cavalry. I've broken even Spartan Hoplites with ease using this method. Given that chariots don't generate a lot of outright kills, and they become dead meat if they stop moving or become bogged down in melee, you don't target units directly with them but you target a point beyond, usually far to the rear of the enemy army. Your chariots will attempt to move through all enemies they contact, and you reorganize them to repeat their movement back through enemy units if needed.

Scythed Chariots are deadly against cavalry. After sweeping through an enemy cavalry unit, that unit will be lucky to have even half their original numbers left standing. Used in this fashion, Scythed Chariots are a fearsome weapon in the arsenal, IMHO. It just takes a little practice, and a little patience, but the rewards are immense.


For running off ranged units or enemy light cav I use Greek/Roman Cav.

THE best unit for running off skirmishers, missile units and chasing routers are undoubtedly Arab Cavalry. They are faster than any other cavalry unit except the Macedonian Light Lancer, and if you use them in the desert where they get all their bonuses, they will catch and kill those uncatchable routing generals. Besides, what's not to like about scimitar-wielding maniacs in green and black?~D


and do not use elephants much, it would take too much effort to try to find out how to use them effectively and training is an issue. Where elephants can be trained, Egypt is there with their Pharoah's Bowmen.

Ummm...one of the main reasons for playing Seleucia is for the Ellies:boxedin: They are simply the best line-buster in the game [and who doesn't like the animation of enemy soldiers tossed through the air like rag dolls~;)] Pharaoh's Bowmen....bah.....if your general is a good one (preferably a cavalry genius with morale-boosting qualities), enemy archers can spend all the time and flame arrows they want trying to cause my ellies to run amok. In fact, I prefer the enemy archers wasting their time trying to do that instead of shooting at a unit where they can do some damage. I've only ever had the "baby" ellies go amok on me...never a War Elephant or a Cataphract Ellie....ever.


it would take too much effort to try to find out how to use them effectively and training is an issue.

To each their own, but you are missing out on one of Seleucia's main weapons. Training? No more so than the same two turns for Cats or Companions~:confused:


I pin the enemy with my heavy infantry, then slam them with my heavy cav or lancers

You can do this because the RTW AI is so predictable. Too bad you never played Shogun I because there, after a few setbacks, the AI would see your infantry-heavy army and begin to throw scads of Cavalry Archers and Naginata Cavalry at you. Your infantry would wear themselves out trying to engage such an army.

*...and one of the things Myth has been trying to talk me into is for him to face down one of my Armenian Cataphract armies....an entire 20 unit army composed of nothing but Cataphract Archers and Heavy Cats with one of his Roman Legionary armies:quiet:

[Vincent Butler]

Just a note on historic use of Scythe Chariots, it is my understanding that Darius overestimated their abilities when fighting an organized army. They were great when attacking a disorganized mob, but at Gaugamela, Alexander's peltasts killed the charioteers. Any weapon has a counter to it. The only time I have seen flaming arrows used against a unit of mine was against my Armoured Elephants. That said, they are devastating to warband and falxmen. If taking your elephants (especially Armoured) against barbarians, you will not need to bring along too many replacements, you will not lose many because the quality of the enemy units is at best decent.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Agreed that scythed chariots are long outdated for the time period of R1...but between the fantasy units, outdated units, and pre-dated units (anything Praetorian, Urban, Cohort II, etc. as the Lorica Segmentata armor didn't appear until A.D. times....), you probably won't have much roster left for some factions:creep:

I was just pointing up a very effective way to use scythed chariots if you choose to do so:shrug:

[Vincent Butler]

[QUOTE=ReluctantSamurai;2053595714]
THE best unit for running off skirmishers, missile units and chasing routers are undoubtedly Arab Cavalry. They are faster than any other cavalry unit except the Macedonian Light Lancer, and if you use them in the desert where they get all their bonuses, they will catch and kill those uncatchable routing generals. Besides, what's not to like about scimitar-wielding maniacs in green and black?~D

That would be awesome.

Training? No more so than the same two turns for Cats or Companions~:confused:

I meant training by location, they can only be trained in very limited areas.

You can do this because the RTW AI is so predictable. Too bad you never played Shogun I because there, after a few setbacks, the AI would see your infantry-heavy army and begin to throw scads of Cavalry Archers and Naginata Cavalry at you. Your infantry would wear themselves out trying to engage such an army.

Now I typically counter cav archers with light cav, if I fight a cav archer army I use bring more light cav than usual. Good strategy or no?~:confused: If nothing else, it gets them busy doing something (like running) instead of shooting at my infantry. I prefer my foot archers wear down their troops who will be doing most of their fighting. I tailor my armies to who I am fighting, and in EB to which troops can be trained where. More cav = more spearmen, more infantry = more swordsmen and archers. More missile cav = more light cav. Are Naginata Cav firearm-armed or javelin? Anyway, heavy infantry, at least in RTW, have the defense to withstand CAs. I take it that is not so in Shogun? And how do you copy multiple quotes from the same post?

And he called unto him two centurions, saying, Make ready two hundred soldiers to go to Caesarea, and horsemen threescore and ten, and spearmen two hundred, at the third hour of the night; And provide them beasts, that they may set Paul on, and bring him safe unto Felix the governor. Acts 23:23,24

[ReluctantSamurai]

You are, of course, correct about the province restriction as to where you can train Ellies. One tactic I use (for any faction that gets Ellies) especially when I land on distant shores with them is to keep a replacement unit or two sitting off-shore in a fleet. That way I can simply debark the replacement unit and bring my fighting units back to full strength. I also do this with mercs.


Now I typically counter cav archers with light cav, if I fight a cav archer army I use bring more light cav than usual. Good strategy or no?

Probably the only way to fight them off in numbers. The Shogun AI always went after your Cavalry Archers with Yari Cav (the fastest unit in the game). I learned real quick to keep some of my own Yari Cav nearby to my Cav Archers to keep enemy cav away or kill them.

Naginata Cavalry:

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Naginata_Cavalry_%28STW_unit%29


Anyway, heavy infantry, at least in RTW, have the defense to withstand CAs

Cataphract Archers will decimate even heavy infantry with archery alone even from the front:

http://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/strategy/battle/CataClass/

Because of their mobility of getting to the flanks or rear, they force infantry units to turn and face them (retaining their shield bonus) and that's when the heavy Cats go to work~;)

Scroll down the list to find them. Vanilla stat is a missile attack of 7....add 1 more for each missile upgrade....add 1 more for each experience chevron (up to nine)....add bonus modifiers from a cavalry general.......well, you get the idea.

It worked this way even historically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

In Shogun, the purpose of Cavalry Archers was harassment. You got enemy formations to break up trying to either defend against them, or chase them. If the AI broke off some foot archers to deal with them, you sent the cavalry to melee to destroy them. If the AI sent Yari Cav after them, your own Yari engaged. A tough nut to crack either way....

[Vincent Butler]

You are, of course, correct about the province restriction as to where you can train Ellies. One tactic I use (for any faction that gets Ellies) especially when I land on distant shores with them is to keep a replacement unit or two sitting off-shore in a fleet. That way I can simply debark the replacement unit and bring my fighting units back to full strength. I also do this with mercs.

A strategy I followed as well. I may have stopped because of my tendency to fight defensively, elephants are not effective in a defensive setup. I have since learned to use the phalanx offensively (unless defensive is to my advantage due to terrain). The fleet thing is actually nice for preparing an army, usually my experienced ones. If it is a city that will come under siege a lot, I will train a replacement garrison unit of some kind until I have a sufficient-sized garrison and send the experienced ones to the ship, one by one or two; it takes a while sometimes, but that way I have a sufficient garrison, and my experienced army is able to conquer instead of sitting inside of a siege, or getting attacked and constantly needing to replace losses while I am building a garrison.

[williamsiddell]

elephants are not effective in a defensive setup.

If I remember correctly, elephants have more superior defensive attributes. They also appear to attract a lot of enemy attention. I would plant them somewhere off an exposed flank and put in defensive mode. The enemy will attack in numbers and eventually the elephants go amok. At that point, because they are away from your troops, they'll do damage to the others rather than yours.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I would plant them somewhere off an exposed flank and put in defensive mode

Then you would be wasting their potential and would be better off not using them. Guys....the whole purpose of ellies is to smash enemy formations with their charge. They need to be used in an offensive way, though you shouldn't get reckless with them. As I've already stated, ellies disrupt enemy formations so badly that a follow-up cavalry charge usually routs whatever unit that just got bowled over.


eventually the elephants go amok

I've played extensively with ellies, and the only ones I've ever had go amok are the "baby" ones. Never, ever, have I had a War ellie or an Armoured ellie go amok (and I play at VH/H). Because of their expense they always get paired with my better (best) generals that have all kinds of stat bonuses for cavalry (including morale), and I actually prefer enemy archers to waste their time shooting flame arrows at my ellies where they do no damage, instead of at something they can damage.

[williamsiddell]

Historically you are absolutely right - elephants were used offensively (and you also know that they were negated by creating corridors for them to pass harmlessly through).

I can only base what I say in the game by what I've seen. Attacks on my forces always result in them running amok - after causing a couple of holes. But the AI isn't smart enough to take advantage. My experience is also that they attract AI units - so if I have elephants I use them as scapegoats to draw off the enemy while I stuff them elsewhere. They of course might die :)

[ReluctantSamurai]

Of course we all know that RTW is anything but historical.~;)

Ellies are just too damn expensive to be used as decoys, IMHO. Take my advice and pair them with generals that have battlefield bonuses...you won't be disappointed:yes:

If you don't feel comfortable using them...then don't. Seleucia has a good enough roster to win without them, tho' I'd question why you'd want to play Seleucia in the first place if you don't~:confused: AFAICS, ellies are one of the main reasons for playing Seleucia:shrug:

[williamsiddell]

Not gonna argue with any of that. You've hit the nail on the head - I don't like elephants (or scythed chariots) because, for all you say they're trustworthy, I always feel I'm not in full control. Aye, it's not a good idea to waste cash - so I would only buy if flush.

[Vincent Butler]

Preferring to control mainly infantry, I feel as if Elephants are just one more thing for me to try to keep track of. I usually only have two or three units of cav, not including my general. Depends on who I am fighting, I tailor my armies accordingly. Archers, especially simple ones like bowmen or Greek style, will not do much damage to heavy infantry, at least not when used by the AI. In my experience, that goes for cav archers as well. Just don't let your infantry get hit in the rear, that's the bugger about fighting cav archers. If you prefer cav, break up formations with elephants, clean up with your Companion Cav and Cataphracts. Just don't hit phalanx head on with elephants.


AFAICS, ellies are one of the main reasons for playing Seleucia

I like the fact of pikemen + heavy cav, I started using them before I found out how to mod to play all units, and Macedon would get boring if that was all you did for that combination. Having the elephants available is an added perk, to me. Seleucia's legionaries are good, but needing a top level barracks + 2 turns to recruit them, in my opinion they are not worth bringing on a campaign; hire some mercs, or better yet, use your cav to protect your flanks. If you like the pike-infantry combo but want some missile cav, Seleucia can train Militia Cav, which Macedon cannot train.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Preferring to control mainly infantry, I feel as if Elephants are just one more thing for me to try to keep track of. I usually only have two or three units of cav, not including my general

Works fine with factions that have good infantry. But you will need to learn how to use cavalry in order to play all of the factions. Parthia and Scythia are the first two that come to mind. Even their best infantry is total crap. You live and die by the mounted bow (although Parthia gets ellies). Carthage is another that comes to mind. Although you will eventually have Sacred Band phalanx, they take a loooong time to get to. In the meantime, Iberian Infantry and Libyan Spear gets decimated by Hastati and Principes. Your Round Shield Cavalry are barely serviceable, and Long Shields are only slightly better. With the Romans on you from the git, you live or die by your elephants and a superior navy.

Pontus will eventually get Phalanx Pike, but your best unit is the Pontus Heavy Cav. With those and Cappadocians, you can take on the Big E.


Just don't hit phalanx head on with elephants.

There isn't an infantry unit in the game that Armored Elephants can't take head on in the hands of a cavalry general. That includes elite phalanx like Royals, Silver/Bronze, Sacred Band, or Spartans.

[Vincent Butler]

So they don't die if they hit the spears? In my experience, and I had the spears, it was the same thing that happens as when chariots hit a phalanx, instant death, only with elephants, sometimes the elephants fall on top of the phalanx and kill some of them.

[ReluctantSamurai]

You'll note I said Armored Elephants. Also note I said "in the hands of a cavalry general". My cavalry generals eventually get to legendary status in several categories, and all those bonuses stack and are conveyed to his troops.