The Seleucid Empire [Archive] - Page 3

williamsiddell

07-22-2014, 09:11

My cavalry generals eventually get to legendary status in several categories

Do you keep your generals alive? I know they can live to a great age but usually only by reloading when they die. I know that if you quicksave immediately before turn end and if you don't like the turn end outcome, reloading the quicksave will give a different outcome. Also if you have spare assassins, diplomats and spies then reloading the save game, performing an action, then resaving before turn end also changes outcomes. This can be done many times for one turn, but rather that interminable reloads I limit myself to the first.

Concerning elephants - if I were playing a human I would definitely use them cos we know how to follow up. Also, think how irritated the enemy human would be :) I just don't like using them against the AI and I'm happy when the AI uses them against me.

ReluctantSamurai

07-22-2014, 15:13

Do you keep your generals alive?

I don't do anything artificial to keep a family member alive...when it's their time, it's their time. Every faction gets their "Military Genius" at some point. When that happens, that's the opportunity to start a line of superior field generals. He will never see the inside of any city wall, and by the time his career is over he will have etched at least a dozen 'historical' battle markers in the sands.....

This can be done many times for one turn, but rather that interminable reloads I limit myself to the first.

It's been my experience that only the first reload changes the result. After that, no matter what changes you make prior to hitting 'end turn', the results are the same:shrug:

williamsiddell

07-22-2014, 16:57

I don't remember seeing a military genius - I need to pay more attention!

I used that multiple reload method when I first started - spy, save, end turn, reload, diplomat, save, end turn, reload and so on - and got varying results for plague, death etc. each time. I specifically left those units, where I could, to last for that reason. Very early on there isn't much happening but further into the game - plenty of changes.

Vincent Butler

07-22-2014, 18:40

It's been my experience that only the first reload changes the result. After that, no matter what changes you make prior to hitting 'end turn', the results are the same:shrug:

I have observed that at least for autoresolved battles, the if the reload doesn't yield the desired result after the second attempt, you will not change the outcome.

ReluctantSamurai

07-22-2014, 21:19

I have observed that at least for autoresolved battles, the if the reload doesn't yield the desired result after the second attempt, you will not change the outcome.

That's been my observation for subterfuge attempts, as well. Nothing changes, no matter what you do after the second attempt:shrug:

williamsiddell

07-22-2014, 21:53

It's easy when you think something is obvious to take it for granted that everybody knows. I suppose I missed the clues in posts I'd read elsewhere, because I was thinking 'why are you finding that so hard when it was a relative breeze for me?' I spotted right at the start that RTW used a number stack to simulate dice throws and didn't reseed on reload. That's why early on I was performing 12+ reloads every turn.

Any enemy general with a rating of at least 24% would be dead before the end of the turn. And memorably, I attacked 4 cities in one turn - only one of which opened it's gates and by turn end all four had. It got too easy so I cut back on the reloads and started trying to solve the insoluble (Tanais for instance)

Nothing much may appear to change after turn end, but it has. For instance an auto-resolve will have a different number of casualties or a sea battle will have different losses. As far as subterfuge is concerned there is no guarantee that an event will not repeat (the next dice throw may have the same effect). What you need to do on reload is use another dice throw, save and end turn.

ReluctantSamurai

07-22-2014, 22:14

I don't make a big deal out of reloads. In fact, I rarely ever do them, anymore. If a spy or assassin dies on a subterfuge attempt....I can train more of them. I don't autocalc field battles except occasionally against brigand units when I don't want to be bothered chasing down a few piss-ant rebels. Siege battles on walled cities I almost always AR because I've already done them so many times and they are too tedious to do anymore.

so I cut back on the reloads and started trying to solve the insoluble (Tanais for instance)

I really wish you would quit saying this because it's becoming rather insulting whether you intend it or not. Tanais is most definitely NOT unsolvable...I've shown you proof. Now if you want to continue on your crusade to find another way other than ZPG, I wholeheartedly encourage you to try. But please stop saying that this city or that city's problems are unsolvable. I've already been there, seen it, done it, and come up with a viable solution that works.

williamsiddell

07-22-2014, 22:35

I really wish you would quit saying this because it's becoming rather insulting

That is not the intention. We have been talking at cross purposes throughout. You have a valid solution to cities like Tanais - my aim is purely to find a way to reduce the garrison (so far insoluble). I presume that, although you apply ZPG, you still need a substantial garrison, given distance, culture penalty, and built in unrest.

As I say I rarely reload anymore, but when you're starting out it makes the game easier as you stumble around.

ReluctantSamurai

07-23-2014, 01:17

That is not the intention. We have been talking at cross purposes throughout.

I know it was not intentional, but you worded your comment like it was fact.:inquisitive: I don't think we've been at cross purposes...I presented a solution to the problem of unrest, which you don't care for. That's perfectly fine. Again, it's a game, and we presumably play to have fun, so have fun with it.

And yes, a more substantial garrison is needed the further one gets from the capital. That's the cost of doing business, so-to-speak. To me, that's the lesser of two evils...having the extra expense of larger garrisons, or constantly having to deal with revolts:shrug: I make millions of denarii despite the garrison expense, so I'm happy.....

If you want a nuts and bolts look at the effects of garrisons:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?44476-Garrison-Effects

williamsiddell

07-23-2014, 02:35

If you want a nuts and bolts look at the effects of garrisons

Checked out the link. I can do the maths - just not this time of night. It raises an issue for me, but I'm not sure how important. I'm playing v1.5 gold of a sequence that started at v1.0 in 2010. Plus I think there were patches in the noughties. I don't know how relevant old posts are - particularly pre-2010.

Also academies don't have a public order bonus, but I've seen a reference that upgrades may have a law bonus. I hope they do because that will help.

williamsiddell

07-23-2014, 03:04

Nope - just tested - the academy group don't give a law bonus. I saw the reference in the listing for the 2005 patch v1.2 - I presume they took it away again.

An example of possible issues with old posts. This is from a May 2013 patch:

'AI and game balancing improvements (including Phalanx AI, shield & arrow damage, siege weapons)'

ReluctantSamurai

07-23-2014, 21:25

An example of possible issues with old posts.

While there certainly can be issues with old posts, I believe that thread is still relevant, and the calculations valid. At least from my observations:shrug:

There was a mod done using the Academy building line which added L & O features for those too frustrated (lazy) to figure out how to control unrest. Don't remember who did it, or where to find it.

wooly_mammoth

01-27-2015, 05:01

Hello the Org!~:wave:

It's 2015 and the Seleucids are still defying history in my favorite strategy game. :ave:

I love having my back to the wall and having to fight against all odds for dear life, and that's exactly how the seleucids start out. By turn three, I was running backwards and punching left and right at 80% of the known world on sheer adrenaline. I was simultaneously besieged by Pontus, Armenia, Parthia (who sent their kind regards with cataphracts) and Egypt. The greeks backed off only because Carthage, Macedon and the Scipii decided to send them their good wishes personally. I broke all the sieges by making best use of what I had available: militia hoplites & militia cavalry, a few skirmishers and my generals charging in where the situation was most dire. That's how guys destined to be pencil pushers end up as heroic monarchs.

There was no time to rest after that, but things got much easier. I held the line at Sardis and Hatra and moved the war over to Parthia and Egypt, while an army of mercenaries besieged Hallicarnasus. The decisive battle against Egypt was played at a bridge in the Nile delta. I was lucky that Salamis revolted, and on the eve of 260 BC, Ptolemy's realm had been vanquished. After that, I had a smaller force march through the deserts to claim rebel settlements, while bigger armies moved against Arsakia, Pontus, Pergamum & Rhodes. Armenia was thus encircled, and they crumbled after a battle in the open plains, where my militia cavarly and scythed chariots out-maneuvered their horse archers, while their infantry was no match for my levy pikemen (there is no such thing as a bad unit if a good general is in command).

I always prioritize infrastructure, agriculture, health and culture over military, so the Eastern Mediterranean was brought under my rule with only tier 1 & 2 units. Now I moved against the Brutii in Greece with tier 3 armies (phalanx pikemen, greek cavalry, elephants and a few contigents of cretan archers). The curse of the Diadochii followed me however, and I lost the first battle against the romans: I was besieging Corinth which had a full garrison, and a smaller army attacked me from the field. I completely destroyed them in the field which left the city empty, but the game crashes no matter what option I pick (occupy/enslave/exterminate). I tried to fight the battle again and leave some of them alive so that the city is not emptied of forces, but though I'm pretty sure I killed less than 85% of them, the city was still emptied and the game crashed again, so I simply withdrew after they attacked (my army was stuck in place, I could not do it in my turn). No problem, because another army beached near Athens and took it with ease. Sneaky bastards. :creep:

While I keep the Brutii busy in Greece, my fleets with sail for Sicilly, so that I envelop Italy nicely and I avoid having the Scipii panic and cluster all of their armies near Capua (so annoying :wall:). The game is very easy after the initial onslaught though, I think it will be smooth sailing until the end. All this on M/M.

ReluctantSamurai

01-27-2015, 05:16

and on the eve of 260 BC, Ptolemy's realm had been vanquished.

Defeating the Big E in 20 turns?.......~:eek:

wooly_mammoth

01-27-2015, 21:01

Remember that I play on M/M. I imagine it is much harder on H or VH, but that kind of challenge is not to my liking. I also got lucky that they did not conquer any rebel settlements but simply joined the "let's gangbang the seleucids" movement along with the rest of my merry neighbors. I went completely banzai when that happened. I destroyed the doomstack led by Kyia just south of Damascus (and that's how Demetrius's plan of a quiet life as a pencil pusher went to Hades) and managed to storm Sidon and Jerusalem without overwhelming resistance. I met another couple of stacks down towards the Nile and eventually my army stopped just short of the bridge leading to Alexandria. I managed to get my general and some cav support on the bridge, with the phalanx as reinforcements. The biggest Egyptian army I have ever seen marched on that bridge, but phalanx accepts no substitutes. ~:cool: It's not the length of the spear that matters, it's how you poke with it. :smug:

Alexandria fell without much hassle and then there were a couple of more stacks near Memphis. I do not know when Salamis decided to revolt. I was assaulting the small garrison in Thebes just as I prepared Cleitos for a voyage out at sea with the conquest of Cyprus in mind, but when Thebes fell so was Egypt undone. They did have one family member left. He roamed the deserts for quite some while, plaguing my roads, but eventually a host of scythed chariots slaughtered him.

Anyhow, the lesson to be learned is that, at least on medium difficulty, you can move mountains in the early game with just militia hoplites and/or levy pikemen and militia cavalry. A cunning player could easily defeat such a force with a skirmisher army, but the computer isn't up to it.

Vincent Butler

01-27-2015, 22:04

Seleucids are great because with Militia Hoplites, you can weather the early storm of assaults on your towns. It is not a bad idea to get going to take out Egypt, although you can afford to wait. I typically am less aggressive, preferring to take coastal towns, heading towards Greece. I like to build up better units before going after Egypt to finish them off. Of course, off the bat, your units are just as good as theirs, minus the chariots that can wipe out your cav. But like I said, I am not all that aggressive as Seleucia or any civilized faction starting off. Once you get to pikemen, an effective strategy that I have mentioned before is pikemen with crossed pikes at a bridge, wipes out anything trying to come across. Have an onager, though, if fighting Rome or Egypt, to counter their onagers. I have not tried Seleucia for a while because I have already covered the map with them a long time ago. Now I am trying it with Scipii.

ReluctantSamurai

01-27-2015, 22:52

I like to build up better units before going after Egypt to finish them off.

I usually do something similar...snag Sidon and Jerusalem, beat off the incessant Big E stacks, and meantime take out Pontus and kick the Greek Cities out of Pergamum.

Remember that I play on M/M. I imagine it is much harder on H or VH, but that kind of challenge is not to my liking.

Yes it is harder, but I've found VH/H to be a nice medium. VH on the campaign map isn't really a huge difference, except that the army stacks you encounter will have better troops, including brigands. VH on the battle map is just too cheesy, IMHO. I've lost more than a few battles not through bad tactics or poor strategy, but simply because of the insane attack/morale boosts given to the AI. I just found that battles require such intensive micro-managing (one little mistake and it's ~:wave:) that the fun factor disappears.

I do not know when Salamis decided to revolt.

Good chance that happened when Alexandria fell. The Pyramids have a 40% boost to loyalty in Ptolemaic cities. Salamis is still worth taking if only because it's a main trade node for the far eastern Med. Nodes from Tarsus, Antioch, Sidon, and Alexandria all pass through Salamis, giving you a big boost to naval trade.

Vincent Butler

01-27-2015, 23:19

I usually do something similar...snag Sidon and Jerusalem, beat off the incessant Big E stacks, and meantime take out Pontus and kick the Greek Cities out of Pergamum.

Yes it is harder, but I've found VH/H to be a nice medium. VH on the campaign map isn't really a huge difference, except that the army stacks you encounter will have better troops, including brigands. VH on the battle map is just too cheesy, IMHO. I've lost more than a few battles not through bad tactics or poor strategy, but simply because of the insane attack/morale boosts given to the AI. I just found that battles require such intensive micro-managing (one little mistake and it's ~:wave:) that the fun factor disappears.

Good chance that happened when Alexandria fell. The Pyramids have a 40% boost to loyalty in Ptolemaic cities.
Memphis, not Alexandria, Alexandria has the Pharos.

I hate facing Egypt because they have an infinite number of large armies in any given area. I think they get a boost as well as Rome. Their units are not good enough to wipe out Seleucia, Pontus, and Armenia like they do.
I have noticed the boost to enemy troops, at least morale, just from E/E to M/M. Battles are harder, enemy also uses better strategy. Anyway, the campaign difficulty does not really change. Even riots don't really increase from E to M.

wooly_mammoth

01-28-2015, 09:53

Interesting point on the connection between the revolt in Salamis and the conquest of the pyramids. My understanding was that if a foreign faction controls the pyramids -> no culture penalty is received in egyptian cities -> therefore, the pyramids are actually useless to the egyptians themselves.

Anyhow, returning to the seleucid early military strategy, there are two more points I'd like to touch: mercenaries & chariots.

It is the first campaign where I actually needed a mercenary army. I used a mercenary-only force (hoplites, peltasts, thracians, slingers and archers) to take Hallicarnassus and the important islands in the East Med. (Rhodes, Cyprus and Crete). Some of them have good garrisons, so if you plan to take them very early it can be costly only with militia hoplites & jav cav, but not impossible. Mercenaries however are very good for the job. In other parts of the early campaign I haven't found that much need for mercs, but they are still helpful. Bedouin archers are nice, but haven't had a decivise role. Some arab cavalry (on horseback, not camels) is useful in Hatra because armenian early armies retreat very quickly once the battle swings in your favor, and hoplites alone cannot catch up with them. When sieging parthian towns, desert infantry can be used as fodder for their slingers and horse archers. Don't just stand there and take the heat though, as soon as the walls are breached rush them in, they can fight everything Parthia has to offer at that stage.

As for seleucid chariots, they cannot be used as lawn-mowers like the egyptian ones (back and forth through the enemy until everything is destroyed, it even works against roman legions). My strategy is to use the phalanx to maneuver the enemy army in the position I like, and then I give the scythed chariots one shot at glory, making them pierce through the enemy where I feel it would be most effective (most damage to morale, basically). I just run them through once and then it's over for them, I rush them away from the enemy and only engage them again when the army is is shambles. Prolong fighting will always make them go berserk. Another use for them if things aren't too hot is to have them run around the rear of the enemy lines, just for the fear they instill, or have them blitz a lone cavalry unit/general (killed the king of Pontus and a greek general this way).

ReluctantSamurai

01-28-2015, 14:47

Memphis, not Alexandria, Alexandria has the Pharos.

:embarassed: Try not to get old, gentlemen...memory is the first thing to go.....

therefore, the pyramids are actually useless to the egyptians themselves.

Quite possible, but....I rarely play the Big E (actually, never anymore) so I couldn't say. I have seen Salamis with a population in excess of 30k with no family member present and a meager garrison, and remain loyal. :shrug:

I just run them through once and then it's over for them, I rush them away from the enemy and only engage them again when the army is is shambles.

Try using a cavalry unit in close echelon with those chariots...the effect on disorganized enemy units is even more devastating~:smoking:

wooly_mammoth

01-28-2015, 17:54

Try using a cavalry unit in close echelon with those chariots...the effect on disorganized enemy units is even more devastating~:smoking:

In think that in this very thread the opposite of what I am about to say is written, but I am fairly certain that chariots enganged in combat inflict friendly damage, that is they can slaughter your own cavalry even without running amok. I think what you propose is a good idea if you take precautions to have the chariots in a safe advance from your cav force, I may try it out when I have shock cav if I still use chariots in my armies by then. The plan is to transition to elephants against the romans, mainly for fun (the army itself should be fine without them). Before this I played Egypt and used the lawn-mower strategy described above. I had given up completely on egyptian cavalry since it was just too light to go against roman heavy infantry.

What I usually like to do with a seleucid army against the romans is to advance with the phalanx at a steady pace, and use cavalry just to keep the flanks clean. I save the death charge for when the enemy is about to break as a whole, because at least the roman AI tends to use some rudimentary manipular tactics, so if you sweep in too deep with the cav they can be swamped by forces from the deeper lines rushing in.

My campaign has progressed a bit, I just took Corinth and Larissa from the Brutii. In the Balkans I will hold the line here, probably invade Thermon when they get a city barracks. Meanwhile, I prepare my armies for the invasion of Sicilly, from where I will branch up into Carthage, Sardinia and Italy. If I can spare the money, I will have another army make a beachhead and Byzantium while I drive into Thessaly from Larissa. Too bad the dalmatian coast is still underdeveloped, I never like to invade small towns because of the lacking infrastructure.

Vincent Butler

01-28-2015, 23:14

It is the first campaign where I actually needed a mercenary army. I used a mercenary-only force (hoplites, peltasts, thracians, slingers and archers) to take Hallicarnassus and the important islands in the East Med. (Rhodes, Cyprus and Crete).
I hear you there.

As for seleucid chariots, they cannot be used as lawn-mowers like the egyptian ones (back and forth through the enemy until everything is destroyed, it even works against roman legions).
If you are controlling the chariots. When I am Rome, and the enemy attacks with chariots, their chariots get owned.

Another use for them if things aren't too hot is to have them run around the rear of the enemy lines, just for the fear they instill, or have them blitz a lone cavalry unit/general (killed the king of Pontus and a greek general this way).
A very good idea, chariots own cav, and can even take out Generals, as you found out. But when Rome gets their Armoured Generals, it will not be as easy, though the tactic should still work. But watch out for missile units, they will decimate your Scythed Chariots. Even slingers own chariots if the chariots do not engage them. Sorry, RS, I brought up stone-chuckers again.:laugh4:

ReluctantSamurai

01-29-2015, 14:44

Sorry, RS, I brought up stone-chuckers again

Actually, your opinion (and use) of them is more historical than mine, which is much more game mechanics driven and probably personal choice, as well~;)

I am fairly certain that chariots enganged in combat inflict friendly damage, that is they can slaughter your own cavalry even without running amok.

This is probably the case, as ellies, similarly, can demolish your own troops when they go bezerk. The secret to echelon work between your cavalry and your chariots is timing. Never point your chariots to direct engagement (which it sounds like you don't do), but pick a spot behind enemy lines you want the chariots to get to (double time, of course:whip:). Once they begin to clear the front lines, and remain cohesive, send in the cav. Chariots don't create many kills (much like ellies) but create confusion and loss of formation cohesiveness....a situation ripe for a cavalry charge. I've broken Roman Cohorts using this method. Granted they have a bigger chance of hammering your chariots and....the follow-up cavalry were experienced Companions:shrug:

wooly_mammoth

02-06-2015, 22:21

Ok, here's an update on my campaign. Premarian romans get so obliterated by tier 3 seleucid armies it is not even funny. My border cities in Greece are Apollonia, Thermon, Larissa and Thessalonica. I am allied and got military treatise with Macedonia, but they only have Byzantum and Cyrene now. I will take Bylazora from the thracians and give it back to them. In the west I have occupied the entire Sicily, so Italy is pretty much surrounded. The next phase is to launch a triple prong on Carthage, Capua and Croton.

My standard army is made of a phalanx of 8 units, 1-2 generals and 2 baby ellies, the rest is greek cav (only exception is an army in Greece where I have less cav but 4 four units of killer cretan archers). I know greek cav is not very good but they crush by sheer numbers. What I do is advance steadily with the phalanx, with the generals and ellies in a column on the left wing, and the greek cav on the right wing. When the phalanx gets down to business, I swing the greek cav around and that's when the entire roman army breaks and flees, no matter what. :shrug:

I already feel sorry for these guys. By the time they go Marius I will have replaced greek cav with silver/silver katatanks, so the roman legions will have the chance to show their worth at running from the field before losing even 15% of their force.

Vincent Butler

02-07-2015, 20:10

I already feel sorry for these guys. By the time they go Marius I will have replaced greek cav with silver/silver katatanks, so the roman legions will have the chance to show their worth at running from the field before losing even 15% of their force.
You would be better off with Companions, in my opinion. Only downside is level of stables needed for companions.
The elephants are why they rout so quickly. Enemy morale takes a hit more for the enemy than your guys, at least at the lower levels (which is all I have ever played at) But a cav charge in the back of an engaged enemy is always an effective strategy, even better with Cataphracts or Companions. And here I go again, being Captain Obvious.
My Greek Cav (of course, I just completed a campaign as Greece, so that was really all I had) only fill the role of light cav, or like you do, hitting from the rear. Not all that effective against Cohort, except that they were hitting cohort fighting Armoured Hoplites. I love Armoured Hoplites. Just they are not good on the walls against Praetorian Cohort. Then again, what non-Roman unit would be good on the walls against Praetorian, except maybe Chosen Axemen?

wooly_mammoth

02-08-2015, 09:23

ReluctantSamurai

02-08-2015, 15:07

Corruption is killing me. Most of the money I make from trade & taxes goes into army upkeep, which is ok since I still make loads of cash from farming and mining.

Build Temples of Asklepios in any city that's not going to be a recruitment center (Temple of Hephaestus for those). Asklepios is the best law & order temple the Seleucids have.

Ideally, army upkeep + wages should be around 50% of your total income, although it can be higher once your treasury gets stupidly rich. Quite frankly, you are carrying too many troops for your current level of infrastructure development:shrug:

Farming and mining income are important for any economy, but....port trading brings in more income than both of those combined~:eek: Get those Shipwrights and Dockyards built ASAP. A basic port can handle only a single trade node...a Shipwright can handle two...a Dockyard three. I pointed out earlier that Salamis was a major trade node for the Eastern Med. Crete is the key to the Central Med...it's the major connection between Anatolia and Greece. Caralis is the key to the Western Med, for all the same reasons.

It's about 220 BC, and these filhty barbarians still have dirt roads, basic ports (unable to repair my triremes argh SO mad) and NO TOILETS anywhere. Primitives.

One of the reasons for that is the difficulty level you are playing at. At higher settings, after 50 years, the Romans would be much more developed.

It is however annoying that a fleet of gold chevroned 9 biremes + 6 triremes cannot sink a pathetic roman bireme in one battle. I need to chase it down about three times before it dies

Pinball naval battles is a sad fact of life with R1:no: You have to actually occupy all eight points of the compass to sink a fleet outright. When I'm after a fleet that is carrying troops, I split off enough ships from a fleet (or two) to get that done. A single ship will do...just make sure you attack with your main fleet as they are the ones who will incur the losses. Try pinning an enemy fleet against shorelines, or better yet, in port. Both require fewer ships to get the job done.

now I stand at 15% public happiness lol. I hope they won't rebel.

If a coliseum is present, use games to increase happiness. Recruit a few peasant units, and reduce taxes to the lowest setting. You will not be pleased with the results if you get kicked out of Tarentum...:boxedin:

BTW, where is your capital?

wooly_mammoth

02-08-2015, 18:19

Just moved to capital to Rhodes and the situation over the entire empire is mostly stabilized. Only Susa is a bit mad now, hopefully I won't see a big army of even angrier elephants marching out.

Anyway:

1. Asklepios temples don't give law. They are good for faraway lands, and I build them there anyway, but for law the only options are Dyonisius and Hephaestus both at Pantheon level. The bonus is very small anyway, only 10%, which does little to nothing against corruption. In my previous Big E. campaign, corruption was all but non-existent, with the insane Horus/Set + secret police tree combo. I had an army about 3-4 times the size of the current one, same for fleets and still had more money than I could spend. That taffing corruption. :no:

2. as far as I know, higher campaign map difficulty also means more cheating for the AI, at least in terms of money. Armywise I find the AI is ridiculous enough as it is, with doomstack after doomstack while not having by any terms the sort of infrastructure required to maintain those armies. Hell, when I played the Scipii I didn't become a billionaire until I invaded Egypt, while the AI just sits in barren Africa and still affords a whooping ~15 doomstacks.

3. i tried your tip with complete surround, still doesn't work. Guess it's back to chasing a paper raft across the high seas with the whole armada. ~:mecry:

ReluctantSamurai

02-09-2015, 07:21

Asklepios temples don't give law.

True, but they give the biggest boost to economy at pantheon level and the traits conferred are all good. Dionysis should only be used where you need population growth, and then replaced with either Asklepios or Hephaestis....every trait conferred is bad and gets progressively worse at higher levels.

Armywise I find the AI is ridiculous enough as it is, with doomstack after doomstack while not having by any terms the sort of infrastructure required to maintain those armies.

AFAIK, only the Romans get such economic "cheats", and even that's not confirmable without access to game code. I play Armenia alot, and I can tell you that a complete blockade brings the Big E to its knees, economically, despite the Nile Delta riches.

i tried your tip with complete surround, still doesn't work.

But it does. You have to occupy all eight points on the compass. There is no exit square from the battle so a fleet that loses is destroyed. I've done it many times so I know it works~;)

I had an army about 3-4 times the size of the current one, same for fleets and still had more money than I could spend. That taffing corruption.

It's not the corruption, it's your trade balance. I've played the Selkies many, many times and had treasuries into the millions well before the games end. I repeat...port trading brings in more denarii than all other forms of income...combined. When you get all port cities to dockyard level, and all your trade nodes connected, your income will go up dramatically. Trade agreements with neutrals doubles your trade with that faction, so don't ignore diplomacy~:smoking:

wooly_mammoth

02-09-2015, 16:41

I think you are right about the economy. I usually get an economic crash in the mid to late game, but never so serious as the current one (I think I am starting to recover from it though). Anyhow, just one comment about the fleet thing. I know it should work as you say, but even if I occupy all 8 locations, the enemy ship runs away through the squares where my ships are located. I saw this once with an annoying gaul army too. It was completely surrounded (an army of mine in each of the eight squares) and yet the guys just retreaded through the squares occupied by my forces.

ReluctantSamurai

02-09-2015, 20:34

I think you are right about the economy.

While I don't consider myself an elite RTW player, the economic aspect is something I've perfected, IMHO. My ZPG strategy is the crown jewel for R1 economics.

I know it should work as you say, but even if I occupy all 8 locations, the enemy ship runs away through the squares where my ships are located.

Strange:inquisitive: Sounds like a bug. If all exit squares from a battle are blocked (land or sea), then an army or fleet caught in this way should be destroyed if they attempt to flee:shrug:

CA didn't seem to do much better with naval battles in R2...most players just auto-calc them anyway, despite being able to fight them manually. STW2 seems to be the pinnacle of their design skills in that area:oops:

Like your avatar, btw....an angry elllie is hopefully one of your own~D

Vincent Butler

02-09-2015, 23:15

Hmm, let's see:

1. actually, my ideal end-game seleucid army would be:

8 SS pikes
4 SS legionaries
2 kataellies
3 katatanks
2 companions
1 armored general

Katatanks are for the self-perpetuating hammer blow in the right flank. Think of it as the right hook to the jaw or liver. They are shock troops though, not endurance cavarly, so it's up to the companions to chase the enemy down or slip through an opening to hit a vital point in the back of the army, Alexander-style. I do not have level 5 stables yet, so currently I rely on greek cav to finish off units after katatanks have scattered them. In my first battle with katas, each had about 200 kills and none had lost more than 9 guys lol. Most kills were from death-charges by bloodthirsty maniacs wearing metal sacks, they did little to no chasing of routers. They also maced some SPQR dude to death, that was fun to watch, though some people may call me weird because of it. ~:cool:

2. My three-pronged strike worked pretty awesome: Vibius Julius himself came to defend Tarentum. The guy was 76 and actually had a legionary army trained at a big Temple of Mars. My seleucid army was still a tier 3 one, but those phalanx pikemen are really resilient bastards. I was lucky that the game did not crash (I was attacked during the enemy's turn), but the city was occupied after that without the screen with occupy/enslave/exterminate to appear. So, it was simply occupied, and now I stand at 15% public happiness lol. I hope they won't rebel. An army of SPQR came to defend Capua, but they ended up impaled on SS pikes, bludgeoned by katas and trampled by war ellies. I am ready to assault Carthage. It has a rather small garrison and no reinforcements in sight.

Now, I must stress that:

a) I HATE the romans :furious3:. It's about 220 BC, and these filhty barbarians still have dirt roads, basic ports (unable to repair my triremes argh SO mad) and NO TOILETS anywhere. Primitives.

b) The Seleucid Empire is actually on the edge of bankruptcy.:laugh4: Corruption is killing me. Most of the money I make from trade & taxes goes into army upkeep, which is ok since I still make loads of cash from farming and mining. However, almost all of that pile of cash is lost on corruption. I am now at the point where I stopped building completely, in order to not get in the red zone. Never had such an economic crisis before. I really miss law. My army has a decent size, I have forces at my frontiers or points of expansion, garrisons of militia hoplites as they are needed and a few units of chariots to kill rebels through the deserts. I do have a big fleet but it is necessary to keep the roman ships at bay. It is however annoying that a fleet of gold chevroned 9 biremes + 6 triremes cannot sink a pathetic roman bireme in one battle. I need to chase it down about three times before it dies(?!?!?!).
I don't think I have ever seen Cataphracts go to maces, but I don't play factions that train them much, and I don't watch their fights much as I am an infantry general.
I don't use Silver Shield Legionaries much because of the level of barracks needed to train them, same with Companions, though by the time I get to Rome they have most of that stuff already there for me.
Rome usually has their sewers in place, even if I get there quickly, of course if I am in Rome quickly it is because I started from Greece or Macedon.
Elephants don't help with the money supply, their upkeep is large, don't know the comparison between levels of elephants, but they are pretty spendy. Elephants are worth it to Seleucia, because they OWN chariots. I typically use one army till I start piling in the money, focusing on one particular area (usually Greece, sometimes Spain). Then I go to two. Once you get Greece and Turkey, you can run with two or three, throw Italy in there and you can go with four or five. I have had as many as eight armies (mainly to regarrison so my main armies could just move on and conquer). Not good for the money supply, I was not really losing much, but was not really gaining much either. But that was later in my Greece campaign.
I use regular armies as garrison, in case I get kicked out I want to be able to fight back. Still, by the end of my Greek campaign I had over 14 million denarii. Almost no Militia Hoplites, either. My typical garrison was 3 or 4 Hoplites, 4 or 3 Armoured Hoplites, 2 Greek Cav, 2 Archers, and maybe 2 Heavy Peltasts and an Onager in towns that like to riot.

wooly_mammoth

02-10-2015, 05:13

Vincent

The main purposes I have in mind for SS legionaries are:

a) in field battles, have them support one of the wings of the phalanx, in case I am up against overwhelming numbers that can try to surround.

b) in sieges, have them walk up in testudo formation up to the breaches made by sappers, to draw arrow fire from the towers. With cover given, cataphracts can then charge blindly on and deliver their message of tolerance and civility. ~:grouphug:

As a side note, in case you are not aware, almost all cavarly has an alternative attack, activated by having the ALT key pressed when you order them to charge. They will use their spears in the initial charge, but then switch to swords. Spears are more effective when fighting other horses, but swords are better against infantry. The two notable exceptions I know are Cataphracts and Nile Cavalry, who use maces and axes. For Cataphracts, maces are most effective in nearly all situations since they are armor piercing, which nullifies a lot of the protection of heavy infantry like legionaries. They can also destroy stuff like praetorian cavarly or roman armored generals with very few casualties of their own. Extremely effective. I think that the axes Nile Cavalry use are also armor piercing, but I haven't used them much in the Egypt campaign since heavy chariots are always better than cavarly for that faction, given that their cav is just too light to tackle heavy forces.

Vincent Butler

02-10-2015, 05:48

I did not know about the alternate attack, I only thought that worked with missile cav. Yeah, the legionaries on the flanks is good, and I love SS Legionaries, but I don't like the barracks level needed. I like filling that role with Heavy Peltasts, Illyrian Mercenaries, or Spanish Mercenaries. Mercenary Warband do in a pinch, but they are not great, and Eastern Mercenaries even worse. Bastarnae/Thracians are good too, but kind of limited, same for Spanish Mercenaries. Bastarnae having the two hit points is really nice.
Nice thing about fighting Rome so early is you encounter their dogs. Cataphracts vs dogs...buwahaha:bounce:.

ReluctantSamurai

02-10-2015, 06:21

in field battles, have them support one of the wings of the phalanx

They are also useful in screening cavalry out on the flanks. The AI looks for "bookish" matchups and the "book" sez that spears have the advantage over cavalry. But the "book" fails to note that Cats are no ordinary cavalry, hence one sees idiotic suicide charges by Roman Triarii (Auxillia, later) straight into Cats on the flank. Not that the Cats can't deal with this themselves, but I don't like getting them bogged down fighting unnecessary battles. SS Legionaires work great picking off these idiots before they tie up the cavalry.

Spears are more effective when fighting other horses, but swords are better against infantry.

Oh for several units of Naginata Cavalry:pray:

Like Vincent, I tend to use Illyrians, Spanish Mercs, and Heavy Peltasts to do the same job, but I always have at least one barracks that can turn out SS. When I get to Western Anatolia and later into Macedonia, gotta have the Bastarnae~D Just love those guys.

Cataphracts vs dogs...buwahaha.

Heheheh......SPLAT!

wooly_mammoth

02-11-2015, 05:04

Well, this just turned into a pretty intense campaign.

Karalis was very lightly defended, so I stormed it with a few pikes and got a new province. However, it does not even have a port yet (220 BC!) so it's largely useless. My expansion against the romans is pretty much halted at this point, because I cannot leave the newly conquered provinces without provoking mass riots, even though I exterminated at every single ocassion. I'm building toilets and asklepios temples everywhere, as well as recruit levy pikes to help garisson when I'm gone. However, the romans are marching against me. The Julii made it all the way into the steppes, if they decide to cross over the Caucasus Mountains things will be getting hot :shame:. Good thing I fortified all of the passes. Also, the Scipii decided to cross the taffing Lybian desert, which they never did in my egyptian campaign :shame:. I still hope most of their guys will be streaming for Carthage, where they will get obliterated by my crack army which will acquire many many chevrons. In my second major battle with katatanks those maniacs once again scored about 200 kills per unit. I wish I was a cataphract sigh.

By the way, :furious3: the macedonians. Those hateful bastards. I was always very very nice to them, gave them free money when I was rich, also free map information, trade, alliance and military access into my lands. They owe to me the fact that they still exist. The belt of provinces they have (Salona, Bylazora, Byzantium) was mostly given by me to them, to have them as a buffer between me and the Julii. However, those ungrateful curs charged me a whooping 20k denarii in exchange for military access, so that seleucid blood may be spilled in order to protect their cities from the romans.:shame:

Anyway, if I make it out alive from the current pickle, the plan is to smash into Rome and the last Brutii city in Italy (they only have Segestica left once that is gone). Then, the two armies can just march all the way up to the Alps. If I'd manage to train a new army and send it over to Cirta, I could also expand to the west and south in Africa and win the campaign (not sure how many more provices I need at this point, about 10 including Rome I think).

ReluctantSamurai

02-11-2015, 12:27

By the way, the macedonians.

:bounce: You're learning the hard way about Greeks in R1...despite the fact that you are one yourself. Never, ever, trust a Greek faction in this game. EVER!

Karalis was very lightly defended, so I stormed it with a few pikes and got a new province. However, it does not even have a port yet (220 BC!) so it's largely useless.

You will probably finish before you can get to Dockyard status there, but develop the port as far as it will go...

Also, the Scipii decided to cross the taffing Lybian desert, which they never did in my egyptian campaign

They always get across eventually in my Armenian campaigns. One big factor in your favor...distance. Don't let them occupy Siwa or you will have a blue hornets nest right in your backyard. Make them have to march all the way across the desert.

Speaking of desert warfare...consider an all cavalry army to cover the vast stretches of endless sand. You can wipe out several stacks in a single turn with the same army...very economical~;) While the Selkies don't get Cat Archers, Ellies, Heavy Cats, and Chariots will do quite nicely~D

I'm building toilets

Careful about getting these to max level. City Plumbing actually adds to corruption and unrest....go figure that one:dizzy2:

wooly_mammoth

02-11-2015, 16:31

Only romans get plumbing but it makes sense to have negative effects because:

a) smart guys try to find ways to circumvent the official supply system -> they don't pay bills -> loss of money.

b) I guess that if they start making little baby romans for your armies too loudly, neighbours bang on the pipes -> heightening of general unrest.

The Scipii already took Siwa but it's a complete dirthole. I'll probably storm it and hand it over to the macedonians, since it's too small for me to use and easier to defend with macedonian allies.

Vincent Butler

02-11-2015, 17:58

even though I exterminated at every single ocassion.
What level are these cities at? Because that could be your money problem. I know RS has said this in other threads, but exterminating, especially on the smaller towns, hurts your money situation in the long run. It provides a nice immediate sum of cash, but more people equals more money. The more people you kill, the less people to pay taxes, and the longer it takes to get a city to a profit.

the macedonians.
They may have Cyrene as well, it does revolt to them if not taken over quickly enough.

wooly_mammoth

02-11-2015, 19:11

Tier 4 cities in all cases. Extermination is a necessity because otherwise they would just kick me out the next turn and the romans get a huge army for free out of nowhere. After occupying Sicily, two provinces in Italy and Carthage my trade profits increased by 20k+ (could be tons more if they had bigger ports but meh), but I forgot to check how the taxing profits changed.

Anyway, the pickle is exclusively my fault for forgetting (underestimating) how crippling corruption can be. Hell, my egyptian empire had an identical span and worse infrastructure (they don't get dockyard) but having no corruption at all from the insane law bonuses, I could have coated the Caucasus in gold and still have money to spare. Right now I'm tight with cash but on an increasing trend, I can't wait to be able to leave my newly conquered cities without fear of rebellion and deliver more pain to the romans.

And yes, the macedonians have Cyrene (dirthole). They only had Cyrene and Byzantium at one point, but I conquered Bylazora and Salona for them. It's nice to have a buffer against the Julii. Salona and Bylazora are easy to aid since I have armies camped nearby, but helping at Byzantium is difficult (though just for fun I might send my anatolian gold chevroned scythed chariots over the hellespont to see if they have truly earned their valor :whip: ).

ReluctantSamurai

02-11-2015, 19:29

Actually, I think the mechanism for City Plumbing that adds to squalor, and hence unrest, is that it gives such a big boost to population growth. When I play any faction that gets advanced plumbing, I only build the next level when I absolutely have to. I've had plenty of occasions where a city reaches ZPG with only the basic sewer in place...hence no need to take it any further.

Extermination should be a last resort based on circumstances, faction, and sometimes which city. Exterminating indeed costs you money over the long haul---less people>>>less taxes. Exterminating is very bad for cities with under 24k for those factions that can achieve that level (or if the city hasn't reached 6k for barbarian cultures), if that city doesn't yet have the max level governing structure. Having said that, there are several cities that are almost always extermination cases at any level over 12k...Carthage, Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Alexandria, Memphis, to name several. All of those are "fast growers" so you regain population rather quickly, and you are buying time to put enough of your own structures into place to deal with the built-in 30% unrest. Many players have big problems with Carthage and the Nile cities, but I can get them to ZPG virtually every time with varying factions. I've found the biggest headaches are: #1 Tarsus; #2 Patavium; #3 Corduba; #4 Jerusalem. I simply HATE managing those cities:furious2: It can be done without further extermination other than initially, but man is it work:wall:

As far as turning Siwa over to the Macedonians....the boyz in blue will simply attack your ally to get it, and it's easier to defend if it's yours. No telling how long (if ever) it will take them to wrap it in stone, which means you can line the walls with archers and obliterate any besieging army. They will get a port built ASAP, and you will have annoying Roman biremes to contend with....and they will crank one out every single turn to slow population growth:creep:

Extermination is a necessity because otherwise they would just kick me out the next turn and the romans get a huge army for free out of nowhere.

Your conquering general should have a pile of Influence laurels....not management skills. It's influence that helps keep the population in check...management skills go towards how profitable the city will be. Most 5-10 star generals, if they've not spent much time in cities, will have a lot of laurettes....

Anyway, the pickle is exclusively my fault for forgetting (underestimating) how crippling corruption can be.

It's not the corruption but your economic plan that's at fault:creep:

wooly_mammoth

02-12-2015, 18:02

Ok, I think I'm in the green now. Took the whole boot of Italy and Rome herself. A shame that my economy going down hell kind of sowered the campaign, if it wasn't for that I could probably try out companions, legionaries and kataellies, but I think it's too late for that. I need just 5 more cities, and all of them are towards the Alps. Made a lot of money from slaughtering romans, which got invested in more trade infrastructure.

The Brutii are down to Segestica, so it's pretty much game over for them. The Scipii only have Africa, and they are caught between a crack army stationed in Carthage and another force that will move towards them from Siwa. The Julii are huge, spreading from North Italy to the steppes. The Parthians are still hanging around, but mostly everyone else is dead. The brits and spaniards are wanking around, they haven't done anything in the whole game. Oh, and those :furious3: macedonians are between me and julii. I'll help them out.

Vincent Butler

02-12-2015, 20:20

Actually, I think the mechanism for City Plumbing that adds to squalor, and hence unrest, is that it gives such a big boost to population growth. When I play any faction that gets advanced plumbing, I only build the next level when I absolutely have to. I've had plenty of occasions where a city reaches ZPG with only the basic sewer in place...hence no need to take it any further.

Extermination should be a last resort based on circumstances, faction, and sometimes which city. Exterminating indeed costs you money over the long haul---less people>>>less taxes. Exterminating is very bad for cities with under 24k for those factions that can achieve that level (or if the city hasn't reached 6k for barbarian cultures), if that city doesn't yet have the max level governing structure. Having said that, there are several cities that are almost always extermination cases at any level over 12k...Carthage, Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Alexandria, Memphis, to name several. All of those are "fast growers" so you regain population rather quickly, and you are buying time to put enough of your own structures into place to deal with the built-in 30% unrest. Many players have big problems with Carthage and the Nile cities, but I can get them to ZPG virtually every time with varying factions. I've found the biggest headaches are: #1 Tarsus; #2 Patavium; #3 Corduba; #4 Jerusalem. I simply HATE managing those cities:furious2: It can be done without further extermination other than initially, but man is it work:wall:

For me the main riot cities are: 1)Corduba 2)Dimmidi 3)Tanais 4)Cirta 5)Londinium. Corduba, Cirta, and Londinium are nice for phalanx factions, just pull out to the bridge and let them riot, then when they come, use the phalanx at the bridge, with crossed spears, so two phalanxes lined up at an angle to each other with their spear points crossing over your side of the foot of the bridge.
One thing I have done, I will take a city that is at max level and just start training peasants in it, usually a full ream in the training section. Then I will take those peasants and put them in a town that needs to grow, usually a town or large town level, and disband them. I have killed two birds with one stone, reducing population, hence reducing squalor, in the large city; and increasing population in the small settlement.
Something else I have taken to doing...If my enemy is blockading the port of a trade partner, I attack that enemy navy, hence opening that trade route up again. Used to be I might do that if they were blockading an ally, but now I do it if at all possible. I typically field four or five navies at least, each with at least five ships. Of course this is after my finances are good. Usually two quinquiremes and three triremes. I typically have at least two, preferable three, just in the Aegean Sea. One in Rhodes, one in Athens, and one in Pergamum. The Rhodes and Athens ones may also be at Kydonia, they shift around. England needs one, and the Med's east coast needs one. Then one for Africa and one or two for Italy. So that is more like seven or eight navies.
At least this is not EB. A quinquireme costs 12000, and takes four turns to build. I think its upkeep is either 4000 or 7000 per turn. And your max trading port? 64000, taking 64 turns to build. Just an idea of the scale (and realism) of EB. Yeah, harder to turn a profit.

wooly_mammoth

02-13-2015, 21:20

Well, that was fast. I won the imperial campaign even faster than with the roman factions, the game ending in 213 BC. I had entertained the thought of waiting a while longer, so as to get a chance to try out seleucid legionaries and companion cavalry, but it would have been tedious to keep the Julii at bay in the meanwhile, the bastards having all of central and eastern Europe and no other enemy in sight. Oh well, maybe next time.

So, if I was to wrap it up in a few short conclusions:

1. never ever ever underestimate the capability of militia/levy armies. those guys are pure gold if used properly.

2. don't overestimate the seleucid economic potential. keep troop production to the shores of the Mediterranean and develop economy everywhere else.

3. nothing can stop silver shield pikes and cataphracts in a field battle. the pikes are tough as nails and and a flanking charge from those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.

ReluctantSamurai

02-14-2015, 00:02

a flanking charge from those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.

So this might mean you are ready for an Armenian campaign?~D

Vincent Butler

02-14-2015, 01:46

those mail-covered maniacs is the classical equivalent of a loose cannon.
~:confused:What is a loose cannon?
Now try Greece, if you haven't already. See what virtually unlimited funds is like, but worthless cav. Armoured Hoplites are great, though.

wooly_mammoth

02-14-2015, 08:17

~:confused:What is a loose cannon?

Loose cannon - A wild one. Someone who does not conform to the rest of society. A maverick. A guy who plays by his own rules and to hell with the consequences. Shows you what he can do.

Multiply that by 54, add mail from rider's head to horse's hooves and maces.

Anyway, for a little bit of personal history, I got into this game back around the time when it came out, but I was too young & dumb to master it, so I drifted away from it until about 2 years ago when I got back into reading history and OCD'd over it. I played an easy/easy greek campaign and won, and then decided to go for all the playable factions on M/M in the order they are listed in the menu. So I checked Julii, Brutii, Scipii, Egypt, Seleucid Empire. Next is Carthage. I plan my OCDs on the long-term, so I'll probably go Darthmod after I finish the vanilla challenge (I guess some factions like Carthage or the barbarians have a rather hard time) and play through everyone once again, given that there's also that really nice fat campaign map.

ReluctantSamurai

02-14-2015, 12:57

and then decided to go for all the playable factions on M/M in the order they are listed in the menu.

You probably already know but in case you don't...all factions except for rebels are playable including the SPQR.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?147725-Non-Roman-Factions

(Second post explains how...just in case~;))

Vincent Butler

02-15-2015, 01:47

You probably already know but in case you don't...all factions except for rebels are playable including the SPQR.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?147725-Non-Roman-Factions

(Second post explains how...just in case~;))

Macedon...Oh, yeah. Lancers, Macedonian Cav, Companions, and Royal Pikemen! Only thing they lack is superb archers, and they can recruit lots of Cretans. Now I want to be Macedon again. Oh well, after my Scipii campaign.

ReluctantSamurai

02-16-2015, 10:11

Vincent Butler

02-16-2015, 18:30

Macedon is my favorite Greek faction, of course, being the cavalry enthusiast that I am~;) And Royal Pike might just be my favorite phalanx...even more than Sacred Band or Spartans. Might as well put the Jolly Roger on their fleets

:bounce:
In my opinion, outside of Rome, Macedon is the best faction to be. Or Seleucia, one of the two. Location, phalanx with good defense (I think 17 instead of 14 for Silver Shields), very good medium cav (Macedonian Cav), awesome heavies(Companions), Lancers, who are one of the fastest units in the game, and who get a powerful charge even though they are light. Only thing missing is archers, and they are in position to hire Cretans. I don't really use elephants. I saw my brother use Armoured Elephants against Dacia. Yeah, Dacia got owned. Against Barbarians, with Elephants, you can just take town after town after town. And according to RS, AE almost never go amok.

ReluctantSamurai

02-17-2015, 02:06

In my opinion, outside of Rome, Macedon is the best faction to be. Or Seleucia, one of the two.

Agree on Macedonia. Rugged phalanx, excellent cavalry, and ready access to 'Creeshan Archers'. Add to that, starting position, and they have to be in the top three.

Lancers, who are one of the fastest units in the game, and who get a powerful charge even though they are light.

I keep my best Lancers all the way to the end. Once infantry gets well advanced you can't let them get tangled up in line melee, but they are much like Shogun's Yari Cavalry....an anti-cavalry unit. Good screen for your heavier cav, and fast enough to chase down most routers.

Not so much a Roman faction, IMHO. Unless you recruit mercs heavily, they are...well...boring. Now mind you, I play with Early Cohorts as maximum infantry, and no Praetorian Cavalry....The Scipii are most fun for me for the Decere Quinquereme and the Temple of Neptune. 5-star admiral's with their flag on a Decere RULE!

And according to RS, AE almost never go amok.

With the added notation that they need to be handled by your best generals, preferably a "cavalry" general.:quiet:

My top three favorites are: Armenia (what a surprise there:laugh4:)...Germania, and Macedonia.

Vincent Butler

02-17-2015, 05:57

Not so much a Roman faction, IMHO. Unless you recruit mercs heavily, they are...well...boring.
Boring they can be. I have started using more ELC, my main army (in Britannia at the moment) are all ELC, Auxilia, and Roman cav (ok, some Light Auxilia and Archer Auxilia too). Against Egypt, I am fielding Legionaries, with one unit of Praetorian per army. I find the extra defense is necessary against their Pharoah's Bowmen~:mad. Oh well, at least no need to fear their cavalry. Hello, Auxilia. Who can fight well in their own right, just not good against swordsmen. Really, for excitement, use a horse archer faction or barbarians. Any of the barbarians are fun to play as (till the riots start and the money tanks for no reason.)

ReluctantSamurai

02-17-2015, 06:04

Any of the barbarians are fun to play as (till the riots start and the money tanks for no reason.)

Doesn't happen to me anymore because...well...you know why:quiet:

ZPG

Vincent Butler

02-17-2015, 21:25

Doesn't happen to me anymore because...well...you know why:quiet:

ZPG
I know, I know. I haven't played as Barbarian enough to figure it out. The main reason is the money thing. I can live with riots, and could probably figure out a way to reduce population growth. But the money is the problem with me. It will tank for no apparent reason. Take Italy first, that is apparent. Take out Rome before they get good. Then Greece and Spain.

Vincent Butler

02-17-2015, 21:27

ReluctantSamurai

02-17-2015, 23:48

Sorry, double post. Any way to get rid of it?

Just highlight the text, delete it, and type in "dbl. post".

Take Italy first, that is apparent. Take out Rome before they get good. Then Greece and Spain.

Of course there are various ways to approach the cash problem as a barbarian faction, and here are my suggestions:

As Germania, remove Britannia from Samarobriva and build a small fleet to prevent further landings on the mainland. You can cross later to deliver a knockout blow. The Gauls are the next target. Once you push to the Med, you now have a lot of coastal towns where you can build ports. Port trade should be your #1 priority, so ports up in the Baltic and a trade agreement with the Julii...even though you will be coming to blows with them at some point. From there, the choice is a matter of style, IMO. Be aggressive and launch into Italy (be prepared to fight the big SPQR army, though), or go for a healthy economy by taking Iberia with it's mines and port towns (every town in Iberia can build a port). I usually go after Iberia because it's a very tough go against the SPQR early (the troops they have depends on the difficulty level...at VH/VH they have Cohorts and Praetorians~:eek:). Once I get to Chosen Archers, Chosen Axmen, Zerkers, and Gothic Cavalry, it's bye-bye Romans. The "economic" pathway allows me to have several full stacks of Germania's finest to rip the heart out of the Romans.

As Gaul, it's more or less the reverse of what you do as Germania, except you already have a town in Iberia, and you need not overrun all of Germania. You will, however, have to deal with the Julii in close proximity.

It's actually easier to play Germania, Gaul, or the Spaniards than Parthia or Scythia because of the ability to get port trading with most of the towns you capture.

Vincent Butler

03-27-2015, 23:56

So on a whim I started another Seleucid campaign, instead of Macedon. But on M/M now, a definite difference. I lost Seleucia to Parthia's all cav army, but took it right back. I lost Hatra, somehow, the Eastern Infantry forced their way through my Militia Hoplites. They did not rout as fast as I am used to. And the Scipii took Halicarnassus, I have not yet retaken it. My nearest settlement is Sardis, but I need to keep a strong force in Sardis to ward off Pontus, and my money supply only allows for one main army. Which is in Athens at the moment. When I took Athens, my money supply instantly started doing better, or course. Corinth or Larissa is next, probably Larissa to get trade with Asia Minor. And somehow I went to war with Greece. Don't know how that happened. Now that I am getting stone walls, defense is a lot easier.

wooly_mammoth

03-28-2015, 08:54

Vincent Butler

03-28-2015, 18:06

Strange that to you lost the eastern territories. Militia hoplites can actually stand against early Parthian/Armenian armies if they have numerical superiority. Keep them on loose formation and have a general around to pancake the cataphracts when they charge. Be wary of the yellow doom moving upon you from the south now. I'd suggesting holding on for dear life to Antioch and Damascus, otherwise you will be unable to train elephants which are a great advantage to your armies.

It was the stinking Horse Archers of Parthia. I did not have enough military to beat them, I think I had one Peltast, one general, two Militia Cav, and three or four Militia Hoplites. Hatra, I don't know what happened. I think six or seven EI units overwhelmed, in the street, four Militia Hoplite units. I had other units too, I think a missile unit. They had one or two Hillmen and a general. Still, they all came down one street, and I had two MH barricading the street with the other two positioned right behind them. I still have to reclaim Hatra, but don't have the funds for an army for that.
Egypt I am not worried about, their strength right now is Chariots, who get owned by Phalanx. At this point, with Seleucia, I fight more defensively, wiping out their armies in my towns, and then striking when they are weak. Of course, Egypt has an infinite number of large armies in any given area.
I don't use Elephants, for the same reason I don't use Spartan Hoplites or First Cohort; they only can be trained in limited places. That said, I know what they do to Chariots, and will probably use them some in the east against Egypt when I actually move to take Egypt out. They are expensive, though. Now that I have Phalanx Pikemen, I am doing better. Even Levy Pikemen are better than Militia Hoplites. I used to not use them because of a lower defense, and I have definitely seen the result of the low defense. They take casualties very easily. But they make up for it with more attack. And more men. Still, they are no substitute for Phalanx Pikemen. Right now I have not been able to afford an Army Barracks for Silver Shields.
I like bridge defense, so once I get some onagers I will play along those lines as well. Egypt and Rome like siege weaponry, so I like to have some to counter.

wooly_mammoth

03-29-2015, 07:16

Well, I'll just recap what I did in the early game. The seleucid starting economy allows you to pump ~12 units of militia hoplites in Sardis, Hatra and Seleucia. With those kinds of numbers you can hold Pontus, Armenia and Parthia at bay. For Parthia & Armenia, use loose formation and rout their ground troops. Horse archers will be annoying but with a bit of skill you can sandwich them between phalanx units, if not they will withdraw anyway once the ground troops are gone. Catatanks should be allowed to charge in a hoplite formation and then pancaked by a general. Enemy generals should be lured by your own general in a spear sandwich. Never take a siege on, use number superiority and sally out the first turn. After you destroy the first Parthian army, buy some mercs and move the battle to them by conquering Susa. It's a great city in the early game, even if the province itself is very poor. For now keep a defensive war against these factions and go full nelson against Egypt. Once they are destroyed you can move simultaneously against rebel territories, Pontus, what's left of Parthia and Armenia.

You are now dominating the east and have already won the game actually. From what I reckon, you got yourself in a bit of a pickle, I hope you make it out succesfully.

I never-ever-never use siege weapons because they are WAY too slow and WAY too inaccurate. To counter enemy siege-fire (if it's worth it, a punny ballista is not worth bothering), I either use cavarly precision strikes to wipe them out (be careful not to lose the cav though) or use archers (loose formation is self-understood) to focus fire on the crews. You can try to use flaming arrows to burn the siege weapons down, but I think it's actually faster to wittle the crew down with regular fire.

In my opinion, you're missing out by not using elephants. There's no need to charge them through the enemy, simply having them in the back will deal a significant morale penalty. Very useful against the romans. Just keep them safe agaist any kind of flaming attacks.

ReluctantSamurai

03-29-2015, 16:42

Strange that you're having economic difficulties as Seleucia:shrug: Besides one of the better army rosters in the game, a hefty income is another of their strong suits. WM's suggestion of striking against the Big E is certainly a very viable option. Of all the enemies surrounding Seleucia, they are the most dangerous as I'm sure you already know. However, the combined harassment from Parthia, Pontus, Armenia, and eventually the Greek Cities will have you fighting an expensive multiple-front war.

When I play the Selkies, I like to take care of my "back end" before striking out for the Nile. Every city in Anatolia is a port city except for Ancyra, and that means sea trade. Removing the Greek Cities from Pergamum nets you a well developed city that's an excellent candidate for a temple of Hephaestus and a training center. Collecting Halicarnassus nets a third 'Wonder' (to go along with the two you already own). Taking Nicomedia and Sinope gains two more excellent port cities, and you can completely remove Pontus from the game by taking Ancyra and Mazaka. To complete the trade route circle, take Salamis and Rhodes. With Rhodes, you get a fourth 'Wonder' and a 40% boost to sea trade. At this point, you will start to have more money than you can spend (even on Ellies:laugh4:).

Parthia and Armenia (as played by the AI) cannot compete even with your mid-level troops, and cease to be a viable threat. You can raise a couple of armies at your leisure to destroy them whenever you wish.

You can now turn your eye to the Nile with a strong economy capable of creating whatever armies/navies you need, and you have your enemy in front of you.

Your armies win you battles, your economy wins the war~;)

Vincent Butler

03-30-2015, 04:35

Strange that you're having economic difficulties as Seleucia:shrug:
Maybe losing Hatra hurt me. I was doing fine, but I think having to maintain garrisons hurt. Like I said, taking Athens helped me out already. Larissa is next.
I think I overestimated the abilities of Militia Hoplites early on. On E/E, they would have done just fine. And the Scipii going after Turkey is unusual, though by no means unheard of. Halicarnassus and Rhodes are definitely targets of priority, after Larissa. Greece will probably bite it before, though, Pergamum.
I don't have Cataphracts yet. I have not been able to afford that level of stables, maintaining infantry, walls, and income takes priority over cavalry for me. I am an infantry general, though I can definitely adjust my tactics to cav, I just like infantry better.

I never-ever-never use siege weapons because they are WAY too slow and WAY too inaccurate.
What I am talking about is at a bridge. My phalanx have their pikes crossed over my end of the bridge, and the enemy gets wasted as they come across. If siege is present, they can bombard my phalanx, who are sitting ducks. My own onagers can counter that.
Phalanx Pikemen don't have great morale, neither is it poor. I have had one unit rout after just two volleys of pilum. They had been sitting in my town, not moving, yet they ran before actually engaging. Fortunately they were backed up by other units.

Vincent Butler

01-23-2017, 22:38

OK, started a new Seleucid campaign. Of course went to war with Egypt quickly (they are no longer with us:sad2:), Pontus, Parthia, Armenia, and Greece. Rome followed soon after. Greece got powerful, wiped out Macedon and Thrace. They kicked the Brutii out of Greece and even took Patavium, probably from Gaul. But they still have it. I have never seen Greece train Spartans before. Now, I have seen five or six Spartan units, not including the ones that were in Sparta when I took it. Also seeing huge armies with ten or more units of Armoured Hoplites. Don't know how many times my Cataphracts have saved my bacon, the AH are pushing into my Phalanx Pikemen, and I hit from the side with Cataphracts, who go to town with their maces. Yeah, Cataphracts are awesome.:2thumbsup: Julii have Tarentum and Croton, who had gone rebel.

Parthia is a nonfactor. Armenia and Pontus keep hitting Hatra, but a spy opens the gates, so they all just rush the open gates, where my phalanx is sitting waiting for them. Any sapping units are handled by Elephants or Cataphracts. They are fielding lots of Cataphract Archers, which of course aren't much good crowding through a gateway with Eastern Infantry and other units, into a waiting phalanx.

I have one unit of Silver Shield Pikemen in each army in addition to my Phalanx Pikemen, but frankly think SSP are a waste of money. They are only marginally better than Phalanx Pikemen, and require an Army Barracks and two turns to build. They should have been a lot better, historically the Agyraspids were very formidable. I don't even bother with Silver Shield Legionaries in my armies, since they require a Royal Barracks. Only one army has Companion Cav, for the same problem of Royal Stables.

Mitch the Mace

01-23-2017, 23:13

With most phalanx factions, the phalanx should be the anvil for the hammer of heavy cav. The Seleucids are THE prime example of this. Cats and Companions should be what wins battles for you. If you run with that strategy, phalanx pikes do a good enough job to pin the enemy in place. SSP are a little better, but not worth the time or money needed to keep them on a fast moving campaign. Once you get into Greece and Rome you can use them more because the barracks in those cities are generally built up enough. SSL are just a bonus unit that adds to the flexibility of your army.

Against lots of AH, I would try to fight more battles on the open field rather than in cities. The Greeks have no answer to heavy cav going around the flank, even their generals aren't much in a fight. Whittle their armies to pieces with the Archers of Crete:bounce:, pin the battle line with the Phalanx Pikemen:yes:, then smash them with the Cats!:2thumbsup: Simple!:Zzzz:

ReluctantSamurai

01-24-2017, 14:00

but frankly think SSP are a waste of money. They are only marginally better than Phalanx Pikemen

When you look at the unit stats, that seems to be the case. 10/14 (attk/def) for the SSP vs 8/13 for the Phalanx Pike hardly seems worth the cost both for purchase and upkeep. Having said that, a close counterpart to the SSP's, the Macedonian Royal Pike, are one of my favorite phalanx units. Tough with a capital T. The extra 3 points on the defensive side seems to help, and even though 17 is still lower than the Armored Hoplites 22, the extra mass the unit has makes up for it, IMHO.

Whittle their armies to pieces with the Archers of Crete

Amen. In a Seleucid campaign, I once fought a battle just outside Sardis on an extremely high hill with only 5 units of "Creeshan Arshers" against a dozen Armored Hoplites. On level ground, I wouldn't even have attempted it, but because the AH had to make that tortuous climb, they got exhausted and thoroughly trashed before they even got close. As a bonus, the Cretan captain got the "Man-of-the-Hour" special and promoted to general. Sweet!~D

Vincent Butler

01-24-2017, 19:13

When you look at the unit stats, that seems to be the case. 10/14 (attk/def) for the SSP vs 8/13 for the Phalanx Pike hardly seems worth the cost both for purchase and upkeep. Having said that, a close counterpart to the SSP's, the Macedonian Royal Pike, are one of my favorite phalanx units. Tough with a capital T. The extra 3 points on the defensive side seems to help, and even though 17 is still lower than the Armored Hoplites 22, the extra mass the unit has makes up for it, IMHO.

I love the Royal Pikes. Although for realism's sake I only have one or two in my armies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyxpmpINyE

For their level, the Armoured Hoplites are the best unit in the game, in my opinion, though arguments could be made for ELC and Chosen Swordsmen. I don't use much Cretans on the campaign because they are only available in a limited region, and I try to have my upgrades uniform, and then I have to worry about sending them into a city before they join my army, which is more hassle than I want to put up with once my army moves out of the region. Though I certainly do use them.

In this current Seleucid campaign, no Macedonian cities had temples to Artemis. Really annoying, as I want the extra attack to my missile units. Now I have to wait till I get a Gallic city with one to Abnoba. Bylazora has a Dacian temple, which tells you how fast Macedon capitulated.

Mitch the Mace

01-24-2017, 20:38

The one major weakness of the Seleucid army is their ranged units. For that reason alone, Cretan Archers are valuable to a Seleucid commander. And their limited region covers a large portion of the eastern Med. Should be fairly simple to keep a supply of them heading to the campaign front. Without good archers, I would bring light cav along, including some skirmisher cav. Unless you want your Cats and Companions tied down attacking the enemy's skirmishers. :crazy:

Vincent Butler

01-24-2017, 22:01

Without good archers, I would bring light cav along, including some skirmisher cav. Unless you want your Cats and Companions tied down attacking the enemy's skirmishers. :crazy:

I always have light cav anyway, but Militia Cav are worthless, in my opinion. They get very few kills, especially for as many javelins as they throw. Greek Cav get a better charge bonus and are better in hand-to-hand fighting. I have some skirmisher cav in my army because it was formed before I got Greek Cav, and they have multiple silver chevrons, so I keep them, but I am not impressed. Of course, I am probably using them wrong, sitting behind a phalanx, but then again, they were only there to be my light cav, and they got good enough to keep around. They probably do better going out and harassing infantry, but then I have to worry about enemy archers and cavalry, and if the battle gets hairy and I am focusing on keeping the missile cav alive, I lose track of my main line, which is what I am more concerned about.

I don't even bother sending Cataphracts after light infantry as a rule, though I do use Companion Cav if they have nothing better to do. Of course, I prefer using Companions to deal with enemy cavalry or the heavy infantry. Also I have my cav use their alternate weapons, usually, unless it is Cataphracts hitting unarmoured units. The swords most heavy cav carry have a better attack than their spears.

ReluctantSamurai

01-25-2017, 08:55

The one major weakness of the Seleucid army is their ranged units

This is true for many other factions as well, the most annoying of which might be the Carthaginians, who don't even get a vanilla archer unit unless one mods them in. I suspect the devs made Cretans available to help with the shortcomings of those rosters that lack decent ranged units. Heck, I use the 'Creshans' even when I play Armenia, which has the best mounted archer unit in the game, in my assault armies.

I don't use much Cretans on the campaign because they are only available in a limited region

They are available in three regions, IIRC. Crete, of course, Phrygia, and Aetolia. Both Crete and Phrygia will have two units available (with those in Crete having a +1 attack bonus), and a single unit in Aetolia. It takes time to build up numbers, but I've never been limited except by available funds. Cretan units that get severely damaged go to the replacement pool. I find a suitable place to build a fort and put them in there along with any other merc replacements. Keeps them away from the plague:pray: For very long distances, a very large fleet sitting offshore works nicely~D

Vincent Butler

01-25-2017, 09:34

Your strategies for storage of mercs are similar to mine. I hired Cretans by Salona and Appolonia, and I think Byzantium and Thessalonica as well, not quite sure about Thessalonica. I will look next time I am in my campaign. I want to say I have done it by Tarentum, but I am probably thinking Merc Hoplites, just something in the back of my mind that is probably confused with something else. That is not very hard. My mind is like a steel trap...once it snaps shut on something, I can't get it back open.

Anyway, I have taken the bite out of Greece (I think):croc:. Pontus is also about done. I lost a general because I was shelling enemy infantry while defending a town, and when I ran my general to take out the routing enemies, I forgot to tell the Onager to stop firing, and of course one of his projectiles hit my general:stars:, of all the men in the unit it could have hit. Onagers seem to home in on generals, and I am not the first one to say that on this forum.

ReluctantSamurai

01-25-2017, 16:24

The export_descr_mercenaries file has them in Greece (Epirus Aetolia Attica Peloponnesus), and Aegean (Rhodos Crete Lycia Phrygia Ionia). IIRC, in Greece you can find them in any of the first three provinces (can't recall ever recruiting them near Corinth), and in the Aegean pool, never on Rhodes or in Lycia along the coast:shrug:

Vincent Butler

01-25-2017, 21:54

I guess my ones in Salona (Illyricum) came from the region by Appolonia, I think that is Aetolia.

I am thinking a change in my phalanx tactics, to be more aggressive, advancing one side of my line into the enemy, and swinging my other flank around into the enemy's flank, and circling my cav to hit them in the back. For some reason, I don't like using a full double-stack army, but I may start that, at least with one of my armies, just to see how it works, That may end up being enemy specific. Right now I am using 6 PP, one SSP, two Archers, two Cataphracts, one Greek Cav, one Onager, a general (if I have a decent one around), and either a War Elephant (in the east/Africa) or a Companion Cav (Greece/Italy).

I have one PP on each flank, and the other pike units lined up facing the enemy. Archers behind, Onager in front or behind, depends on if the enemy has siege weapons or not. Cats defending the flanks, Greek Cav and general in the middle behind the phalanx. I will have to experiment with the new tactic and report afterwords. I have not yet really used the Companions or War Ellies in my battles yet, so they would either be on the flank or behind.

Mitch the Mace

01-25-2017, 23:28

[QUOTE=Vincent Butler;2053735496]I always have light cav anyway, but Militia Cav are worthless, in my opinion. They get very few kills, especially for as many javelins as they throw. Greek Cav get a better charge bonus and are better in hand-to-hand fighting. I have some skirmisher cav in my army because it was formed before I got Greek Cav, and they have multiple silver chevrons, so I keep them, but I am not impressed. Of course, I am probably using them wrong, sitting behind a phalanx, but then again, they were only there to be my light cav, and they got good enough to keep around. They probably do better going out and harassing infantry, but then I have to worry about enemy archers and cavalry, and if the battle gets hairy and I am focusing on keeping the missile cav alive, I lose track of my main line, which is what I am more concerned about.
QUOTE]

I know I've had this discussion with you before, but Militia Cav offers more flexibility than Greek Cav. GC will fare better in melee, but the point is to not let it get to melee with a skirmisher cav. Yes, the enemy loves to focus on running down skirmisher cav with it's own cav, but that is also a good way to isolate their cav and destroy it with Cats. ~:cool: Militia cav definitely require more supervision, but what use is light cav if they just sit behind your battle line? Unless the only reason you bring light cav along is to run down routing units, which militia cav does just fine. Sun Tzu said "Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions." This is why I like to maintain as much flexibility in my army as possible, and having the ability to harass the enemy at a distance and then using that same unit to run down routing troops is an advantage that I like to have along.

This mainly applies with my phalanx armies. I do not typically use jav cav in armies where my battle line is more flexible and it is not as critical to keep the enemy off my flanks.

Mitch the Mace

01-26-2017, 00:16

I do agree the most annoying of factions lacking strong archers is Carthage. With just slingers and skirmishers, a General has to get creative with ways to combat enemy missile fire. Usually that means having a large contingent of cav. The Balearic slingers do provide a decent fill-in, especially against the lightly armoured troops of Numidia, Egypt and Spain. I really enjoy playing with Carthage, but it does test your tactical abilities going up against stronger factions. With no superb inf until you get to Sacred Band, the battles can often turn into a whirling melee. The Libyan Spearmen is a solid unit, but not one with which you can win a battle. Poeni inf is a good unit, but seem to fight in a looser formation than most phalanx-forming units, thereby limiting their ability to punch through stronger inf. Spanish mercs are an essential part to a Carthaginian army. They provide a decent sword unit that can flank enemy inf to good success. Cav and Elephants are what wins the day for Carthage.

With the Seleucids, at least the weakness of archers can be filled with the access to Cretan archers. And their pikes also give them an advantage over most inf they will face early in the campaign. They also have Cats, which kinda helps. :rolleyes:

Vincent Butler

01-26-2017, 01:55

Yes, the enemy loves to focus on running down skirmisher cav with it's own cav, but that is also a good way to isolate their cav and destroy it with Cats. ~:cool: Militia cav definitely require more supervision, but what use is light cav if they just sit behind your battle line? Unless the only reason you bring light cav along is to run down routing units, which militia cav does just fine. Sun Tzu said "Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions." This is why I like to maintain as much flexibility in my army as possible, and having the ability to harass the enemy at a distance and then using that same unit to run down routing troops is an advantage that I like to have along.

That would require using Cats to try to run somebody down after you have isolated them, not exactly their specialty. They are better used smashing the enemy line. Frankly, at that point, MC are expendable, especially as they require a first-level stables to retrain. Now horse archers I view differently, they have more range and more ammo. I use my light cav in whatever aspect the battle demands. That might be chasing away missile units, might be dealing with enemy light cav, might be hitting enemy siege weapons, or dealing with low-quality enemy infantry such as Iberian Infantry or even possibly Desert Axemen, once my GC get some upgrades. Or maybe just running down routers. So it seems it is a difference of cav tactics:shrug:, I like my cav to be able to go to melee combat if needed.

So a comparison, MC have stats of 6 missile, 6 melee, 2 defense, charge of 3 (if the card says 1, it is using the value from the javelin, but the engine uses the charge value with sword). GC has 6 melee, 8 armour, charge of 5. Again, cav doctrine dictates whether you would want GC or MC.

Once I leave the area where I will be fighting phalanx, my MC will probably go east. MC will be more effective against Pontus and Armenia than Rome, though cav archers could cause problems for them. But myself and Greece are the only ones left who really focus on phalanx, which is who MC are probably best at harassing. Roman units simply have too much defense to really use MC against them, same for AH.

weejonnie

05-26-2017, 15:59

Hi There,

Just playing the Seleucids on moderate/ moderate - this is my 5th campaign (Julii/ Britannia/ Parthia (don't ask)/ Germanica) so I am still fairly new - but here are my thoughts.

1) In the early game I actually have taxes set to 'low' - to encourage population growth. With the Seleucids I think I can afford it. I only increase them when circumstances require a big hit.
2) Armenia kept sending forces against my central town from the North - however they don't try and starve you out and usually the 'V-shaped' hoplites at the gates send them all routing.
3) Egypt came knocking. They offered a Protectorship but, having fallen for that playing Parthia, I declined.
4) The AI beats Egypt better than I can.
5) With the Egyptian attack blunted, I loaded an army onto a ship and took out the 3 Nile cities - Egypt crumbled. Cyprus went soon after.
6) The Greeks broke their allied status and sent a VERY large army (full of hoplites) against me. Expecting a siege I sent out half a dozen scythed chariots groups against them, to whittle them down, as I did not fancy having to play with them in a siege situation. Result: 650 casualties - TBH I was not expecting anything like that as I would have thought the phalanxs would have carved them up. (I got a **** Man of the hour out of that:))
7) Elephants seem rubbish - the few times I have used them they were routed very easily.
8) So now I hold pretty much everything in the South-East (Asia Minor, Pontus, Egypt) and am just about to start making cataphracts/ war elephants in Antioch. The Nile Cities are powerhousing the economy and pretty well all towns/ cities can be upgraded.
9) Armenia sent a raiding force against the ex=pontus city on the Black Sea. I found archers on the walls very effective (once I stopped trying to set the battering ram alight) They destroyed the force by the ram (I note no one tried to re-use it) and weakened the troops going up the ladders. (Once they reached the top, my hoplites quickly despatched them). Is there any way of creating a custom battle where you have to defend a town? I know you can attack one. The only one I have seen is the prepared one of Brittania Vs Julii and that is trivial to win.
10) If going into a battle where the result is uncertain, play it yourself unless your general is better ** than theirs. If the AI plays it then even if you lose you usually save your general -when I play it, my general nearly always gets killed before he routs.

My immediate goals are : Take Rhodes, the 3 Armenian provinces and the remaining Parthian one south of the Caspian. That will leave me with just Scythia to the North and Numidia in the West to defend against. Since my borders are now secure I can probably concentrate on roads/ ports/ markets for some cities.

However I seem to have a couple of options for the next few turns.

a) Try and take over Africa - this will presumably put me up against the Scipii (and by inference the other Roman factions) - for what would be a modest return (unless I can take Carthage)

b) Pop over to Greece - this would entail taking out the Greek Cities and Macedon to get my hands on the lucrative Mediterranean Trade, and no doubt would involve fighting the Brutii (although this is well before Marius). I must admit I would prefer to fight the Brutii when they hold 5 or 6 cities than when they hold 12 or more.

c) Blitzkrieg Southern Italy - on the assumption that the Italian Family forces are in what was Gaul/ Africa/ Greece - which would seriously damage both Brutii/ Scipii. The worry is that SPQR would lend a hand (as they have done in other games)

d) Go direct for Rome before it gets too big

So far, I have found that the second stage of the game is mainly naval warfare as you try to establish dominance of the Mediterranean. Once you have done that then the rest of the game is relatively easy as you have blockaded all the enemy ports and killed trade.

I know a lot is said about bribing, but IMHO a bribe seriously weakens cultural development (This is hypothetical, I think so far I have only managed to bribe one captain) - I spend money as fast as it comes in.

Vincent Butler

05-26-2017, 18:56

AI beats Egypt better than you? With Seleucia, I just let them waste themselves against Militia Hoplites in my towns. Their Chariots are worthless against phalanx, and MH are better than Nubian Spearmen. Tactic works even better against Armenia. Usually Parthia hits Seleucia (the city) with an all cav force, including Cataphracts, so unless you have built them up in the little time you have available, you will probably lose that town.

I have heard that with the chariots, if you do not tell your chariots to attack the phalanx but rather tell them to run behind the phalanx, you don't lose men like you would had you told your men to attack them. I almost never use chariots myself, unless Britannia, and then you don't have any other cav or archers. That said, they lose very quickly to Germanic Spear Warband.

As Seleucia, you are good enough to handle Rome even when they get powerful. Go for Greece to be sure, you will probably be weakening the Brutii, and Greece is fabulous for your finances.

Elephants are specialized. They own chariots and other cav, but are certainly not invincible, though they are powerful. Also, using War Ellies or Armoured Ellies is better, they are a lot less likely to go amok.

Also, when you use cav to fight, tell them to fight using the alt-click. The attack using your cavalry's swords (if they carry a secondary weapon) beats the attack when your cavalry are using their spears, though they still use the spears in a charge to get the charge bonus. This alternate attack is especially nice when you use your Cataphract's maces against armoured units. Also, same with Scythed Chariots, their secondary attack is AP. Now, I don't know if it is same method as elephants, where you need to use the alt to simply use arrows or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2RfJHg9LE

I know the chariots are Pontic, but of course, faction does not affect performance.

ReluctantSamurai

05-27-2017, 15:05

Elephants seem rubbish - the few times I have used them they were routed very easily.

Baby Ellies (as I call them) are useful only very early in a game as battering rams against wooden walls. Indeed, they rout relatively quickly even in the hands of a good cavalry commander. War Ellies and Cataphract Ellies are another matter. They are second only to Cataphract Cavalry in breaking infantry lines. They are awesome against Roman post-Marian heavy infantry. They need to be handled in much the same way as Scythed Chariots. You don't want them milling around after the initial charge. If you zoom in close you'll see that they don't actually kill a lot of soldiers, but instead knock men down a cause a lot of formation disruption. And there's the key...formation disruption. As the Seleucids, you have a couple of deadly duos---Ellies/Scythed Chariots, and Ellies/Cataphracts.

You stack one behind the other with the Elephants taking point. You set a point behind the unit you want to hit, and have the Ellies charge for that point. They leave behind a severely disrupted formation with soldiers on the ground or milling about trying to get back into line. When the second wave hits them it's almost always insta-rout. Timing is critical as you don't want to give the enemy formation time to recover. Under the command of a skilled general even elite Roman cohorts crumble under this one-two punch.

However I seem to have a couple of options for the next few turns.

You can't go wrong with invading Greece. The income is simply fabulous. Also, since Seleucia is culturally Greek, you will have less trouble with conquered Greek cities. A word about your expansion...

As you expand westwards, you will more than likely have to relocate your capital. You most definitely need to keep the "distance-to-capital" penalty manageable. You also need to be mindful of your temple choices, and Seleucia has some good ones. Upon capturing a city, I almost always tear down the existing temple, with several notable exceptions: the Egyptian Pantheon Horus for it's +1 weapons upgrade combined with a very good law & order bonus; the Gallic Large Temple of Epona which Romans can upgrade to produce troops with +5 experience; and the Macedonian Temple of Zeus which is tied with the Egyptian Temple of Set for the highest number of total bonuses (law/order/military bonuses).

Having said all that, the further out you go, the handier the Seleucid Temple of Asklepios will become. It might be tempting to use Dionysus because of the whopping 50% happiness bonus, but the caveat in using it is the 1% population growth bonus (bad when you have captured a huge city), and some of the worst traits in the game being passed along to a governor (drink/gambling/perversion). Asklepios has a solid 25%/25% boost to law and happiness, a +2 bonus to trade, and a +2 bonus to unit experience (at Pantheon lvl). You do have to be careful of the "Hypochondriac' trait (absolutely ridiculous, IMHO) which grants a -6 to any generals hit-points...definitely not a good thing for a field general.

Anyway, hope you find some of this ramble useful~D

weejonnie

05-28-2017, 13:54

Thanks - It's all been useful - I have acheived my immediate goals (Armenia is an ex-faction, Parthia is stuck in the North-East and the Greek Cities are now no more (The Brutii tried the old make-alliance/ break alliance tactic and I don't think they are very happy I sunk a large army with my quinquiremes - they are now (I think) stuck to SE Italy and the North_West coast of Greece - they have one decent army on my side of the Adriatic, but it will be not too hard to take (once the plague has settled down).)

Over in Africa the Scipii are about to attack the capital of my Numidian Allies - so I've sent a force to support them. I suspect that bribary may be the answer since in the past games I played they Scipii plonked great numbers of troops into Africa. The Julii are presumably consolidating NW Europe, but I think it will be a case of blockading all the Mediterranean (I've never seen as much sea traffic in the Eastern Med as I have now)

Will have to spy out Italy, I think, now to find the weak spots. (I find the two-army routine useful - one fights a battle and then switches place with the one inside the city to be retrained - you can use up a lot of the population). Patavium would be a good city I think as it would Isolate the Brutii on the Hellenic peninsula and there are always tons of people to recruit.

(Slightly amusing - I built and then manned a temporary fort with a garrison of 1 elephant - smell of the dung is terrible:~:))

Update

Have made footfall in Italy - Brutii are down to one province in NW Greece - amazingly their income is STILL showing as massive on the graphs - this must be hard-wired into the game to allow them to expand as quickly as someone playing the Julii - all my reinforcements from the Middle East land at Sparta and spend a turn getting +2 experience from the temple there. Am going to go and take Palma to get a place to make ships in the Western Med. Scipii are clustering around Carthage, and I'm letting them enjoy the sights. Will play the game as if there is no winning condition, although in theory it could be over fairly soon. I own the whole of the South-East quadrant (capital Cyprus). It would be nice if there was some easy way to replay a campaign.