Blue Lotus: Total War

[Silver Rusher]

Chinese armies! Finally! I've been waiting to see these for ages. Bamboo peasants... lol. Good work.

[Emperior Eric]

Ahh yes that map was beautiful Kallimachus.

and yes i thought it was hard coded as i could find it but obviously i just suck lol

[mysticflame]

This is looking GREAT! Hoggy, you have so much talent!

[Leet Eriksson]

Really great work hoggy, i would pay just to play your mod ~:)

The chinese bamboo spear unit looks very similiar to the Yunanese, Nanman and Vietnamese spearmen (the cone hats, and the cloak wich looks similiar to rattan armor) during the 3 kingdoms period, so how about calling them Nanman infantry (just for uniqueness), they were also good fighters in forested areas.

[DemonArchangel]

i would suggest a rice straw vest if they are to be peasants.

[Turin]

Eto... not sure how to say this but...

When I looked over the campagin map I realized a mistake I had made in one of the names.

Houkyo

alright, this will take some explaining. When Romanizing Japanese, there is a problem with "long" vowels, both the "o" in houkyo are long vowels. The Japanese deal with the problem by adding a "u" after the syllable to stress that it is "long", thus the u after ho. When Romanizing, one can either add a u, or add a hyphen above the o. Since we can't add hyphens, I decided on the u, but the kyo then, also needs to be kyou. Houkyou looks kind of wierd. If fact, if we used this system for Tokyo or Kyoto, we would have Toukyou and Kyoutou. Neither of which look right. Thus, I advise the much romanized version: "Hokyo".

Sorry about that

Excellent work on the may by the way!

[General_Sun]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16149

This campaign map editing tool would speed up everything by a lot! This is really easy to use guys...

I think it's faster than manuel editing...

[hoggy]

. Here are the light spear unit:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/light.jpg
Thanks to DJ and Tosa Inu for making me a senior member, cheers guys!

[Duke John]

And you deserve it! :medievalcheers: Let the beer flow freely! :barrel: May this mod prosper, cheers!

[Saranalos]

hehe looks like the guy in the pic in bottom left is stabbing his friend.
anyway hoggy as I said before this mod looks brilliant.

and General_sun the link you posted dosent work.

[Shiyuan]

I know i told u this already Hoggy...but shouldn't a ninja unit be added? I know many peeps will love it...just a suggestion. Any way I can help, just ask.

-Shi


:xmas:

Oh and try not to strain urself to much over the Holidays ;)

[hoggy]

I might add ninja at a later date, not sure. They just don't seem to suit the battlefield to me. Anyway here's the last unit before Christmas, Heavy chinese spearmen:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/hchin.jpg

[Emperior Eric]

Beautiful beautiful Hoggy. Since you are coming close to being done with the original factions can we expect a possible beta release?

[Turin]

Is it just me or do other people think that Hoggy's models and textures are improving in quality as time goes on? I mean, the newer units seem to have a greater level of detail in their textures and models than the older ones.

Maybe it's just me. Capital job hoggy!

And I say no to the ninja idea too, not right for a battlefield.

And please don't forget my one request for this mod: change the samurai mounted archer's armor and helmet to the same kind used by the heavy cavalry . This is much more historically accurate, also don't forget to give them a nice long curving katana.

Again, capital job!

PM me or post if you need any help naming units or anything else for that matter. I am decently well versed in the Chinese/Japanese languages and military history.

[DragoonXXIV]

I don't know about improving in quality, but the one thing i can say for certain is that the older ones are fantastic and the newer ones are fantastic.
I also think that there shouldn't be battlefield ninjas, if you can make a strategic ninja (though i doubt it) that would be wonderful, but for battlefield use, they don't fit.
Like i've said earlier, the models are great but i'm worried about the animations. The spearman shouldn't be too bad because you can use regular R:tW stuff (not the greatest anim., but not too bad), however the troops with Katanas and exotic weapons need a whole new set.
Also if you really want this mod to be detailed, you can change the general's speechs and add a few quotes. And as i said earlier i think it would be cool to add a Buddhist side (disregard the irony).

[Zanderpants]

long curved katana? During the sengoku jidai, heavily curved swords weren't used by cavalry.... Or is this during the 1300s-1400s? It is fantasy though, so I guess it's irrelevant. lol. Also, I do agree, Hoggy's models were already superb, but they just keep getting better and better! ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: Three cheers for Hoggy! :bow:

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

May I make a suggestion? As the strat map will be divided into a fantasy China, Japan and demon kingdom, wouldn't it be cool when fighting on the terrain of the demon kingdom if you could get into the battlefield map generator and change the mapping of the skies to a more dramatic or spooky or frightening appearance with great towering storm clouds or heavy dark thunderheads?

[binsquared]

I must say,..this mod looks very very good...I can't wait til its released. I love your models Hoggy, keep it up...

Small suggestion: Perhaps you can make the Japanese swordsaints wield dual swords? Just to show they are not regular swordsmen ~D

[DemonArchangel]

NICE!
The heavy spearmen look great, and they don't have obscenely large crests.

[SIcilian]

this mod looks incredible ~:eek: ~:eek: :dizzy2:

2 questions,
1. will there be a demo, and when?
2.how many units do u have so far?



sicilian fencer
:duel: engarde

[Emperior Eric]

Hoggy the spearmen look awesome but I have to say I never noticed how good the Samurai in that pic look. There armor looks real in a sense. and as for the improving over time I dont know I think they are all awesome

[hoggy]

cheers for the responses guys,
Emporer Eric - a release won't be for quite a while yet (months), there's still alot to do besides the units and map to get the campaign working.
Dragoon - Animation is something I want to change but it will depend on time. Ideally I would change everything but it's just not possible. I might try and talk to the Sengonku mod people about some kind of work swap to use their anims maybe. still not decided.
Ferocious I - good idea, I'm going to look into the skies but I think they're linked to climate.
binsquared - twin swords again is a big animation problem. Demonarchangel suggested twin swords for the chinese guard unit and I'm going to test that to see how it looks.
Sicilian - If you check page one I try to update the army lists as I get stuff done.

many thanks guys I'm off doing family stuff for a week or two. Have a top Christmas and New Year.

[jlin12345us]

hoggy merry christmas and happy New Year. I have question in the Blue Lotus mod do the AI get better, or same as it is from the rome total war? I hope you improve the AI, beacuse AI from the original rome total war is really bad. how old are you and what kind the job you have beacuse you are really good?

thank you for making this mod. ~:) ~:) ~:) ~:) ~:) ~:)

[Emperior Eric]

Merry CHRISTmas

[AbbaddoN]

Good job!!
This mod is fantastic! :jawdrop:

Only a question... :inquisitive:
Camels in China or Japan?

And one idea... :idea2:
Do you can make elephants, camels and evil horses more... dead or zombies? Maybe without flesh in some parts, with bones at sight.

Anyway, i wait for this mod with impatience!! :jumping:

Thanks for your work! :bow:

[DragoonXXIV]

The camels are part of the demon force, so it's alright if they aren't native to Japan or China. And although they weren't native to China, historically the Chinese loved to import exotic animals to stock the Emperor's gardens, there are texts that suggest that they even had Zebras and Giraffes.

[Leet Eriksson]

Camels in China or Japan?


China has bactrian camels i believe. They fit in the game pretty well.

[hoggy]

Back again. Hope you all had a good Christmas. As Dragoon says, the camels are part of the Demon force although I intend there to be a unit of camel cavalry for the Chinese armies too (they are also going to have a unit of leopard handlers).

Here are two more ‘Chinese’ units from the list, the imperial guard (like the heavy spears but with two swords and plumes) and the Tibetan Infantry with their peacock crests:

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinguard.jpg

[Zafer]

that shit is crazy!!!!!!!

[Zafer]

Oh yeah, a Mongol faction for the future would be some crazier shit!!! :charge: :charge: ~:cheers:

[hoggy]

Ok, I've been thinking over Christmas and the next full faction after the chinese is to be the Indian faction. Here is their army list. Currently titled the Rajpur I could do with some good faction title ideas and unit ideas if you can think of any good ones.

Indian Kingdom:
Infantry
Peasant Infantry (loin cloth, buckler and scimitar)
Rajpur Infantry (ornate turban scimitar and shield)
Rajpur Spears (ornate turban spear and shield)
Gurkha Infantry (powerful close combat troops)
Babur Infantry (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Babur archers (ornate gold helmet early cone style)
Holy Warriors (dreadlocked with loincloth and club)

Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Rajpur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
Elephant Spears
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)

Special Units
Tigers

This is likely to be the last style of full faction besides the Monks. Mongols, Koreans and a whole number of other strange units will appear as rebels/mercenaries/assorted small scale factions (ie. factions with fewer unit types).

[Emperior Eric]

You mean kinda like Dacia or Gaul where they only have like 9 diff units? So you will have the Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Demon, Monk and then a few more with only a few units? That makes sense but Dont you think the Koreans should also be a full army since they are Imperial like? anyway just a thought great spearmen btw

[hoggy]

Yes, So a mongol faction would have perhaps just 4 infantry and three cavalry types and work work as a localised mini faction. Silver Rusher put forward an army list for a full Korean faction but I've been unable to find any good visual reference for them. If anyone knows of any good sites/ imagery for koreans (and mongols) please let me know.

[Emperior Eric]

Well your concept art is amazing so could you not simply draw it off a description? Well I suppose that is alot of work but a full korean faction would be awesome.

[DragoonXXIV]

Hmm, excellent idea w/ the Indians, but a few suggestions.
Firstly, i thought it was Rajput not Rajpur but i could be wrong.
Secondly you've included Rajputs and Baburs, who quite frankly hated each other, in the same army. Although the Baburs did incorporate Rajputs into thier armies, the Rajputs always had pure Rajput detachments and these detachment were few and small. Also the Rajputs were mainly calvary, using other peoples as grunt troops, while they turned the tide with calvary shock.
Thirdly i'm a bit concerned with Gurkhas. They didn't exist until the 1500s and they were in Nepal, and i don't think the Baburs had much contact with them. I would suggest replacing them with Kushans, though few after thier time, they were still around and used as elite infantry by the Rajput, Sultans, and Baburs.
Fourthly, could you elaborate on Elephant spears? I don't think you can really use a spear if you're on the top of an elephant but i could be wrong.
Finally, i'm not sure about the Holy warriors, Indians didn't really use fanatics in thier armies, i can understand this being a reference to the Vedic legends and thier great heroes, but it seems a bit out of place.
Sorry for the great, and once again, great job so far. And I'd love to see Tigers and/or Tiger riders.

[DragoonXXIV]

Gah! Sorry. Last line should read:
"Sorry for the rant, and once again great job so far."

...bloody lack of edit feature...

[Kallimachus]

Righto, have to agree with DragoonXXIV on the idea of making the Indians more cavalry based with massed but weak infantry (discounting the elite units but if these were made skirmishers also they would be suplementary to the masses rather then holding the line by themselves). Also, would it be possible to include Indian tribal skirmisher javelin units (I'm thinking akin to Cilician pirates).

Additionally, though I doubt the historicity of it, ancient Indian hunting dogs were said to be able to tear apart a lion (well, alledgedly three of them could) and never run from battle, so you could considor these as a kind of 'Tigers lite' unit if you dont mind filling the army list up with animals (though it leaves more scope for some of the more nature based generals retinue characters such as master hunter etc.)

And once again, incredible work, the scope of this mod increases every time I read this thread ~:cool:

Cheers

[Saranalos]

I was just thinking since this is a fantasy mod WHY BE HISTORICAL???
use your imagination and im sure that it dosent matter too much that rapjuts and baburs are in the same army.

[Turin]

One of my activities for this Winter Break (since it is no longer politically correct to call it Christmas Break), has been to finish the Heike Monogatari (The Tale of Heike). It is the definitive chronicle of the Genpei War and to many events before and after it.

Anyway, through my reading I have a few things to say about the Monk and Demon factions.

For the monks, there should be warriors who look just like regular samurai! The book makes constant reference to "helmeted and armored monks". The fully armored monks are knowns as "worker monks" those who are older and less martial are the "scholar monks". Perhaps there should be a druid style units for the un-armored, un-armred scholar monks? Also, palaquins! (spelling?) Yes, the sacred portable shrines of the Enryakuji monks. Instead of having a general's bodyguard unit, have a palaquin with a few ceremoniously dressed monks.

For the Demons, there should be a unit that is just one big giant floating head! Yes, there have been reference in the book to such creatures haunting cursed samurai.

One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.

[DragoonXXIV]

I completely agree with Turin about the monks. They should be samurai, give or take a few units. As for a giant floating head for the demons... well i can think of dozens of Japanese monsters that weren't used in this mod, face it there are just to many. Pardon the pun ~:) . However i just want to point out that wolves are nothing like dogs, they're bigger, and have a completely different build, extremely different than European breds. Don't think you can just retexture wardogs and get wolves, you'd need a completely different model. That being said... Wolves would be awesome.

[Zafer]

One BIG unit recommendation for the Mongols: timberwolves! The Mongols had great respect for wolves (few in their land). And with wardogs, it'd be a relatively easy job.

They weren't "timberwolves" specifically but...

The gray wolf is the patriotic animal for most Altai people, such as Turks and Mongols. But we never used them in battle, it's just our mythology. I don't recall the Americans ever sending bald eagles to pester the British redcoats.

If anyone has a specific question about Mongols or other Turkic people please ask.

[hoggy]

Aha, slight mix up with the terminology I think. I must admit I used Rajpur as a placeholder for the name of the Indian faction rather than meaning Rajput. Where I have put Rajpur spears etc I just mean turbanned, later style Indian units. Babur equally is just refering to the earlier style. I'm mixing units from completely different periods as I did with the chinese and japanese factions .

Emperor Eric - I'm not really even sure of the style of Korean units, did they look like chinese units? Does anyone have any descriptions of what they wore or links to sites?

Dragoon - as mentioned above I don't think my descriptions were very good. I'm doing concepts for them soon so hopefully it'll be clearer. Historical animosities will be left aside for the fight against the demon horde ~:) .

Turin - top ideas, I'm going to need some help when I do the monk faction. The monks are going to be made of at least two or three factions made up of a mixture of monks from different periods and different factions. Each faction will only have a handful of monk unit types but they will have numbers and some heroes or elite units.

Zafer - Definitely interested in help on the mongol faction, wolves are definitely in as are shamans, cavalry archers, light cavalry and heavy cavalry. Any more ideas for Mongol units? Would it look too wrong to have shamans fighting as a unit in a fantasy environment?

cheers for all the input folks

[Galen]

Hey All, first off I'd like to say hi and how are ya'll :)

Now on to buisness as it were, Hoggy IMHO if you'd like to find a group of "warrior monks" that could be truely unique maybe you should aim for the Chinese monks instead of Japanese? Or with the Japanese monks (obviously not on the same faction list) because the Chinese monks and their Kung Fu added a slew of new weapons and fighting styles that would be possible within the RTW engine :)

Here is a link to a site with LOTS of ancient chinese weapons:
http://www.chinese-weapon.com.tw/english.htm
http://store.martialartsmart.net/chinese-martial-arts-weapons.html

My favorites are the Rope Dart and Chain Whip :) all of which are quite possible inside RTW's engine.


Oh BTW those ShiShi Riders look perfect for a chinese Lion
http://www.jowgakungfu.com/cgi-bin/mas/scan/fi=gallery_db/st=db/sf=category/se=Chinese%20New%20Year/to=r%2Cn/tf=date/sp=gallery_results/ml=16.html

That site has a lot of info on a specific style of Kung Fu (one that I take) but the pictures on that site are a good idea of what "chinese lions" should look like :) and yours are nearly perfect.

[Silver Rusher]

Another unit for the demons: Harlequins! I know it is quite a western word, but it can be applied to anything. The literal translation is "devil's horsemen" or something like that. They could be all dark and fiery and their horses could be completely black except maybe with red streaks? Anyway, good luck on the mod, the indians look pretty good. Looking forward to seeing some elephant stompin' action! But one thing though, I noticed from the map of the campaign you made that each kingdom will now be subdivided into different "clans". Why? I much preffered the previous idea of just having one kingdom per cultural group. I think a demon kingdom, a chinese kingdom, a japanese kingdom, an indian kingdom, a mongol kingdom (minor), a korean kingdom (minor) and of course the monks would be a much better idea. I understand you would want more factions, but IMO that is enough for anybody.

[hoggy]

here are the elite imperial guards:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinel.jpg

[Frostic]

Wow! I've just got to say this mod is everything and more what I wanted a mod to be in R:TW, thanks so much.

[Silver Rusher]

Tight!

[Lord Aeonicus]

Amazing. This mod looks to be the bee's knees.

And for hoggy to be doing all ths without all the pomp and fanfare associated with some of the other mods is even more impressive.

Nice work!

[doglover]

Hoggy, your talents are awe inspiring. Consider me in on downloading this mod when it's done.
I don't want to be a turd, but I noticed in the later threads that Korea wasn't included on the campaign map. Can you still include it as a faction?
On a historical note, Korea had quite a swashbuckling history. Some other units could be:
Hawrang-Do (Flowering Youth:- These were sons of nobles dedicated to martial learning and academia. They were expected to excell with the compound bow, sword, horsemanship and science.
Horse archers:- Korea had an accomodating relationship with the Mongols during their reign, and as a result, inherited the exrtemely powerful compound bow. I studied Korean Traditional archer for several years in Seoul, and these weapons are quite powerful.
Hero Units:- Both hero archers and lone swordsmen. During the Hideyoshi invasions of Korean archers held off against Japanese arquebusquers.
Korea's esoterical and mythical stories are sources for good units also.
Guardians:- The heavily muscled, fanged and shaven headed warriors that guard the entrances to Korean Buddhist temples.
Gishin:- Korean ghosts, that glide across the earth in flowing white robes.

Also, just a thought, and I can't remember if a thread already exists, but have you considered including minor dieties in the game? The four winds, or cardinal directions for Korea and China, for example, are depicted as fearsome, fanged warriors armed with bow and heavy-bladed pike. Perhaps they could be uber-units, recruitable only if a faction has their largest temple?

Anyhoo, Blue Lotus is pretty much my mod of choice, and I can't wait for its release. I really hope there's a Korean faction. I wish I was more computer savy, I'd do some artwork and post the picks.
-Doglover

[Big_John]

super-awesome looking mod hoggy! i don't really know much about the cultures you're sort-of representing, but i can toss out some random ideas..

the mongols/koreans/etc.. you may be right in making them unplayable factions. i think your mod would benefit from having some "3rd" parties, so to speak. that said, here are a couple of sites with mongol-ish pics (for unit design).

http://www.buryatmongol.com/shamanism.html
this is a general info site about mongolian shamanism, i think the mongols had several sacred animals.. maybe you can have different kinds of shaman in their armies (falcon-shaman, horse-shaman, wolf.. etc).

http://www.newmastersgallery.com/ArtistsT/tseng.htm
this is a gallery of an artists paintings. probably not uber-historical, but very colorful.. look like they'd be fun for you to model :) notice the warrior with falcon.. maybe you can expound upon that idea and just kinda invent some units ~;)

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Photo_shows/Beijing_Mar00/Mongolian.html
that's a chinese actor playing a mongol barbarian on the great wall.. probably even less accurate than the painting :sweatdrop:

http://www.le.ac.uk/geology/wdc2/culture.htm
some modern "culture" photos.

http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mongolia.htm
a crap-load about mongolian archery. see this: http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/mngtchnq.htm
this whole asian archery research network is pretty cool (http://www.atarn.org/frameindex.htm)

just a couple of googling images..
14th c. warrior (http://www.figureinternational.com/beta/NEWReleases/200312/images/00034_%20AV54-20_%20Elite%20Miniatures%2054%20Mongolian%20Warrior%20c_%20138_jpg_jpg.jpg)
modern wrestlers (http://academ.hvcc.edu/~kantopet/student_works/boldbaatar/bagisugi.jpg) (wrestling is very big in mongol culture, i believe)

as for music, why not use some tuvan/mongol throat-singing? it'd be very distinctive.. but maybe not the best battle music. oh, you should check some throat-singing cd covers for visuals too (like huun-huur-tu, chirgilchin and the like). what about the mongol invasion expansion for STW? i never played that game, but wouldn't there be some good starting points in there?

oh, and take the elephants from the demons and give them to the indians, imo. obviously the indians should/will have elephants, but i don't like seeing those noble animals serving in the demon army :embarassed: besides, with he dragons, do they really need more mounts?

lol hope some of that helps or something, anyway good luck with the mod, it looks sweet :bow:

[JimBob]

Similar to what doglover said concerning deities, for the Indian faction including some of the more fearsome gods(Durga and Kali come to mind) as high level very powerful very expensive units would give the Indian faction and the game more flavor.

http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/durga.htm
Durga
http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/kali.htm
Kali
http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian_epics_and_stories/ramayana_ram.htm
Ram or Rama
http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian_epics_and_stories/the_life_of_hanuman.htm
Hanuman

[Big_John]

oh also.. i think you should remake the map to be a stylized map of asia instead of the completely fictional one. imo, your map, by divorcing the factions from their lands, really hurts the atmosphere of the game.

by "stylized" i mean making your own using ancient asian art styles as a guide..
http://pasture.ecn.purdue.edu/~agenhtml/agenmc/china/images/art/pic2.gif

etc..

you could have the demons emerging from an erupting volcano island in the south-east.. or from siberia.. the monks could be in tibet/nepal.. lol

[hoggy]

Galen - excellent reference for weapons there. I'm going to have each monk faction have it's own style of monks ie chinese monk faction or japanese monk faction.

Silver Rusher - I've split the chinese and japanese into two clans each to add depth to the gameplay and to allow for improved multiplayer options. crossing fingers it works.

Doglover - Some excellent unit ideas for the koreans there, I just need to find some visual reference.

Big John - top mongol reference. Not sure about the map yet IthinkI'going to playtestthis one first. I think there is a case that it might make naval power too important so it may need some work.

[doglover]

"Doglover - Some excellent unit ideas for the koreans there, I just need to find some visual reference.

Hey Hoggy, if someone can "school" me on scanning and uploading pics I can do some sketches of Korean infantry/archers/horsemen/heros as well as the coolest looking of their Buddhist deities."
I'll do all I can to get the Koreans in there as a playable faction ~D

[Marshal Murat]

I have a small idea.
For the Chinese have a Terra Cotta Army guy.
I'm pretty sure that this may have been suggested, but in the pages I've seen there hasn't been any.

[hoggy]

Doglover - It's ok, been looking tonight and I've found a few things so the Korean mini faction is looking possible

Marshal Murat - I think the terracotta army units are pretty much like the imperial spears in BL (but terracotta statues have no helmets)

[Big_John]

actual terracotta warriors (enchanted kinda like golems i guess) would be pretty cool.. they'd be very elite units i guess.

a couple of korean army pics (mostly three-kingdoms era, i think.. maybe later)
http://www.korea.army.mil/pao/hwarang4/photos/22%20August/gen.ulchi3%28JPG%29.jpg
http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/ (be sure to navigate all 5 pages)
http://www.lifeinkorea.com/cgi-bin/pictures.cfm (ehh not great, but maybe some ideas? like here (http://www.lifeinkorea.com/Images/SKyongsang/LSS-ship010.jpg) and here (http://www.lifeinkorea.com/Images/SKyongsang/LSS-ship026.jpg))

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/6007/hang1.jpg
http://img11.exs.cx/img11/9967/chiwoomu0910-2.gif
http://img154.exs.cx/img154/5500/ansiseong-fortress-1a.jpg

found them all here: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=141
(see the 2-4 pages especially!)

[doglover]

[QUOTE=hoggy]Doglover - It's ok, been looking tonight and I've found a few things so the Korean mini faction is looking possible

Sorry Hoggy, what is a "mini-faction"? Is it playable, or perhaps just a smaller faction than the japanese or chinese? Kinda like the thracian faction for rtw? I'm still open to help with concepts, just let me know if you need anything. ~:cheers:

[hoggy]

fantastic reference Big John, a lot better than I'd got.
Doglover - I'm going to do the Mongols and Koreans as mini factions like the thracians so not as many unit types but they will be playable. At a later date we can add more units to the factions to round them off but to start with we can just have the most important units. It's a matter of modelling time really.

(edit) Here are the concepts for the Indian Infantry and updated armylist:

Infantry
Peasant Infantry
Krishnapur Swordsmen
Krishnapur Guard
Golden warriors
Golden archers
Fanatic Tribesmen
Gurkha Infantry

Cavalry
Horse Archers/Scouts
Krishnapur Lancers (ornate turban spear and shield)
Arjuna Chariots (ornate gold helmet early cone style after hero Arjuna)
Elephant Archers
War Elephants
Royal Elephants (ornate white elephant with minaret palanquin)

Special Units
Tigers

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/India_Inf.jpg

[hoggy]

here are the chinese archers. I modified these slightly from the original concepts (demon archangel input) to make them look less manchurian:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinarcher.jpg

[doglover]

Gorgeous models, Hoggy, they look like an original build. Thanks for the info on the mini factions, I look forward to playing them agains the ods :duel:
I just thought of something and cant remember if its been asked yet: Will there be family portraits and character traits?

[hoggy]

doglover - yup, all BL models are original builds rather than just reskins. Portraits and traits will be modded too.

Here are the 'Cho ku no' or repeating crossbow unit. It's a change again from the original concept to make them wear lamellar. Still to do proper crossbow animation at a later date.

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chincross.jpg

[Silver Rusher]

I hope you do get a good animation on those crossbows, hoggy. But judging by your previous work I'm certain you will anyway.

[DemonArchangel]

Hoggy: For the indians, be sure to use a chariot unit, and give the tribal fanatic an indian 2 handed mace instead of that club.

[Ianofsmeg16]

THAT LOOKS ABSOLUTLY FANTASTIC! Especially the chinese they look great!
how far are you in the project? are you finished? if so reply telling me where i can download it because it looks great! :duel: :charge: :bow:

[Big_John]

from the all-empires forums again:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1606&PN=1
see bottom of page for chosun dynasty armor/dress.. there's a lot of pictorial examples of korean and chinese armies on that forum.. less about japanese, some about southeast asian, didn't see much indian or mongol info :no:

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.asp?manu=ZVE&code=8003
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.asp?manu=ITA&code=6020
13th c mongol army toy soldiers, not colored but you could use them for model guides.

here's a couple of painted mongol toy soldiers:
http://www.hz-forum.de/galerie/ga_herrick.htm
http://users.adelphia.net/~ftduq/Eastern.html
here's a couple of painted mongol toy soldiers

a little more mongol stuff:
http://www.csen.org/Mongol.Nadaam/Mongol.text.html
i really think there should be a mongol wrestler unit, not sure how you'd implement it though.. it could be like the berserkers, high damage, low defense, small unit, good for smashing into the back of engaged units.. i dunno :dizzy2: probably sounds better than it would actually be.. just sounds funny and cool to me..

also, i know osprey makes several books on the mongols (http://www.ospreypublishing.com/search_results.php?PHPSESSID=91466c7c3decd773c7491328a9ce378e)
if you're so inclined, you could buy a couple..

also, if you make a somewhat realistic map, i'd suggest moving india (and tibet/nepal) over to the east so they are more south than southwest of china, shrinking southeast asia and bringing japan down a bit.. it'd be better play, imo.
http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/images/mongmap.jpg


awesome models and concepts as always :bow:

[OldRPGer]

Galen - excellent reference for weapons there. I'm going to have each monk faction have it's own style of monks ie chinese monk faction or japanese monk faction.

Maybe Buddist for the Japanese, or perhaps you could substitute Sohei, or
Yamabushi priests if no appropriate monks can be decided upon.

And how about some Ninja, either as a special unit, or perhaps they could
be substituted for the spy and assassin units. They serve pretty much the
same purpose!...........Just a thought! ~:)

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

WOW...I was hoping you'd add India to your list of factions, Hoggy...and you've outdone yourself again. I love your drawings...you're a superb artist..the tribal fanatics in particular are great. I can't wait to see them in 3D..

BTW...what courses have you taken for your 3d work? any Gnomon DVDs or courses?

[hoggy]

There have been a few points raised about the current campaign map that it would focus the game too heavily on naval power and also that it is perhaps too fantastical. The armies are at least based loosly on historical factions and the map isn't. Here is an idea for an alternative campaign map. It is very rough obviously but shows the basic idea of a distorted asia map with japan attached to the continent and all factions (except the monks) reachable by land. Any thoughts, preferences? It essentially should be a choice of which will play better and give the best feel for the Blue Lotus mod (hmm, I may even do a poll...) Note: current map is on page 8 of this thread.

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/BLmap.jpg

[Big_John]

you know i prefer the new map ~:) ~:)

demons in siberia is a good move, imo. i don't really like the japan solution, but it's probably necessary.. what else could you do? give them an early edge in naval? that'd be hard to balance for sure.. but what are you going to do about the monk island? how ever you deal with their navy/position you could do equally with the japanese.

i think the monks would be better in tibet/nepal ~:)

poor mongols will have a devil of a time with the demon faction ~:mecry:
(pun intended!)

now you must show us more concept art! i like it as much as the models ~:cheers:

[NagatsukaShumi]

I just had to post eventually.

Brilliant prospects for this modification Hoggy. It is vastly different in comparison to so many others you see getting under way just because it has a bit of creativity behind it. I'm not saying other MODs are no good because they are based off of history, but this is just unique due to it been your own little creation, very well done!

Got to say I'm looking forward to playing as they Demon's. Don't know why but they seem quite a bit like the demons from the Onimusha series and I always though they were pretty cool, even if I was hacking them to bits and hey, Nobunaga as the Demon King was cool too.

The difference between factions is what really makes this MOD appealing, not one faction looks the same the Japanese do not resemble the Chinese and so on. It looks as if your going to get some very different factions going here forcing the player to play very differently with each one to win effectively.

My personal preference regarding maps is the one on page 8, but thats just because I'd like to see the mod stay on the path to been your own little world and not a modification of the real world.

Well done.

[DragoonXXIV]

I think the map is a matter of personally taste, i am if you want you can release both maps and people can choose which one they want to play. However there are a few disadvantages to this new map. Firstly what about Kamchatka? The way the factions look, a player using Mongols or Demons would have a large advantage.
Also another problem arises with Japan. Japan is rather small, if you use the real world there is little you can do about it, so if there are multiple Japanese factions they would eat each other very early on, however if you made the Japanese like Rome, Korea is dead. Korea would be surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies and has little if any room to expand, it would be worse than the Greek city states in regular R:TW.
To be blunt there is a reason certain countries had large golden periods and were more important globally and inside thier spheres of influence. Also either way you do it, the AI needs a serious rewrite unless CA releases a big patch soon.

[Silver Rusher]

I don't think this new map is a good idea. I say, play around with the old one so that instead of simple islands, there is maybe one big continent and then islands around it. But it should suit the gameplay, my idea is just so that the demons and mongols get their big continent, and then everybody else have their own little islands to live on.

[hoggy]

If we use the new map the scale and positions of different factions provinces would be tweaked to even out gameplay. Here are the concepts for the Chinese cavalry units in the meantime while we're deciding:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Chincav.jpg

[Big_John]

ha that water buffalo chariot is awesome! ~:cheers:
love the expresion on the camel's face..

personally, i think a map based on the real globe adds a lot of personality and atmosphere to the game. i don't see a problem with having different starting difficulties btwn factions either, that's the way it should be (e.g. if i want more of a challenge i can play as korea). tweaking the sizes and start pos., as you said, will be sufficient. meh, make a poll if you can't decide.

i like that you moved japan south, but by connecting it to korea, it seems like you're automatically setting up war btwn two. seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me. i think if you make japan big enough, make hokkaido a rebel province, make taiwan bigger (and rebel), this would give the japanese an option to attack china too. all of this depends on how you deal witht he navies anyway, though.

anyway, it doesn't seem like you're in a rush, so you'll figure it out in time :bow:

[manu7777]

do u think that it could be possible to download or send me all japanese kingdom models units and textures?

[Turin]

I like the new map too!

Just remember to be liberal with those impassable mountain ranges, they make for good strategic play.

If you stick with the new map, you might have to keep the Japanese as one faction and split the Chinese into three, just to make the starting territories fair. Otherwise you'd have to make the Chinese territories desolate or somehting else to compensate for the advantage in landmass.

Love the new Chinese cavalry units! Only suggestion: Manchurian Horse Archer. They aren't Mongols and are really quite closely related to the Chinese.

Again, if you are going to stick with the new map, it'd be a good idea not to leave Korea as an independent faction, they would be impossible to play. Put them on the side of the Japanese and separate Japan from the mainland by a very narrow straight.

Just a few friendly suggestions!

[the tokai]

hm what if you take the map from page 8 and merge all the islands together into one big continent? that way you will have a big continent with a sea in the middle. when you do this it is possible to get anywhere on the map over land (except for the monk island) but over sea it goes a lot quicker. so naval power isn't a necessety but it can be very usefull. it's kinda like with the map from vanilla RTW, you've got the mediterranean sea in the middle but you can get anywhere over land.

[ptolemy]

dude this looks so kool keep up the good work. keep me updated plz. how do u do stuff like that anyway?

[Big_John]

i second almost everything the wise turin suggests :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

but, i hope a better solution to the koreans (than making them unplayable) is found ~:confused:

[vlad 1]

lol- why demons in russland ~D ~D ~D
may be better comrades woriers ,red guards, ~D

[Saranalos]

Hey with all this discussion about what map to use wouldent it be best to use two maps(I heard it was possible) and one campaign could use the original map and the other a new one that way everyones happy. ~:) ~:)

[DragoonXXIV]

Firstly, amazing job with the Chinese calvary. Also now that i think about it, the easiest solution of Korea & Japan would be to displace Korea into Manchuria, that way they will contest Kamchatka with the Demons and Mongols, and they won't be completely surrounded or be a natrual enemy of anyone. Also i think it's rather impossible to fit 3 factions on Japan, however 2 will easily do, one in the north, and one in the south with a some islands kinda like the Julii and Scipii in R:TW. Also i don't think the Chinese factions should be united, they already have plently of places to expand in, best to give them borders. Finally I think it would be cool for there to a be single (possibly heavily forested) pass through the Himilayas.

Turin: Actually the Chinese did use Mongols as elite troops in the later dynasties. They were called banner troops and served as quick response forces to combat the constant ethnic rebellions that plagued later chinese history.

[TigerVX]

I love your concept art. But one problem with the Buffalo Chariots. I'm doing the Easterlings for FA:TW, and I caught a hitch when making the Wain Riders. Apparently you can have no more then 4 riders on a chariot otherwise the game crashes when you load up =(. However, you can use it as ana Elephant mount whihc can have far more riders, and integrate the buffalo into the animation and model for the chariot which might.

I also like the new map better. It gives the game that kinda Tolkienish feel, like these great wars could have actually happened, how the Demons could have actually existed at one time. You might want to modify it though, since Japan doesn't have a clear path to the Demon armies without invading Mongolia or China. And seeing as how you made the Japanese and Demons first, I thought the Japanese and the Demon armies would be the first to battle.

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

So now that you've decided to do India, can we expect a Khymer faction too? Imagine the temples with their huge scupted faces...

[Lonely Soldier]

I reckon the entirely fantasy map has many superior elements over the more standard option. It adds a certain unique quality that I think would be missing from the more realist version of the map. Perhaps if you used your original concept with a few minor alterations: making the Japanese islands more like their real world counter parts for example. I just think that if we wanted a real world Asia we would just play someone elses mod.

Keep up the good work Hoggy!

Lonely Soldier

[hoggy]

Here is an updated rough version of the map with some alterations. It’s worth mentioning if we use this map that current, modern day borders will only be loosely followed and most region names will be different or only reminiscent of modern names. The map is it’s own world or prehistory where tectonic plates have shifted and distorted the landmasses. The red lines are just faction borders not region borders, each faction will have a handful of regions.
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/BLmap2.jpg
On the gameplay side for any map, the monks are separate and non playable as they will be where rome is and essentially a very defensive faction. The focus of the game should be on the continent with the Monks to fall last. The purpose of the game is still world domination so the Demons are not your only enemy just the immediate aggressive threat. Areas not inhabited by known factions will have factions using a standard army set (not set yet) with some special units and also roaming rebel armies allowing for expansion

TigerVX - cheers wasn't sure if they'd work, I'll have a look when I come to them. Any news on large scale units like Olog-hai?

Saranlos -2 maps would just be too much work really. It'll be hard enough getting one working well.

Vlad - sorry, I really didn't want to put the demons in russia but they had to go somewhere :bow:

[Al Khalifah]

I feel the 'real' map is better than the fantasy one. It gives it a bit more sense of realism and helps to build each factions individual personality. A few volcanoes in the more damned realms would add something - more mountains and snow and general doom related terrain.

My suggestion would be to use a real map but feel free to morph it quite a bit and add plenty of fantasy features to further each civilisations personality. Remember that most of these factions had no real idea what their lands truly looked like anyway (no consistent measurement units or surveys) and even if they did they didn't really know what their neighbours lands looked like by comparrison (if you look at an older map of a large area it will be very distorted).

So, why not keep the basic shapes but alter the sizes. Make Japan a lot longer - someone suggested connecting it to the mainland twice with a sea in the middle.

Edit: thanks for posting while I was typing hoggy - making me look all foolish.

[manu7777]

Could u tell me when the mod will be out? soon?

[a_ver_est]

IMHO real map will be better for the AI, it doesn't do amphibious warfare very often.

You're doing a great job. ~:)

[hoggy]

Here are the Chinese heavy mace unit:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinmace.jpg

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

That is beautiful work hoggy ~D

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

I feel the 'real' map is better than the fantasy one. It gives it a bit more sense of realism and helps to build each factions individual personality. A few volcanoes in the more damned realms would add something - more mountains and snow and general doom related terrain.

My suggestion would be to use a real map but feel free to morph it quite a bit and add plenty of fantasy features to further each civilisations personality. Remember that most of these factions had no real idea what their lands truly looked like anyway (no consistent measurement units or surveys) and even if they did they didn't really know what their neighbours lands looked like by comparrison (if you look at an older map of a large area it will be very distorted).

So, why not keep the basic shapes but alter the sizes. Make Japan a lot longer - someone suggested connecting it to the mainland twice with a sea in the middle.

Edit: thanks for posting while I was typing hoggy - making me look all foolish.
You know, initially I was inclined to side with Hoggy on the map issue simply because this is his mod and he's produced a huge amount of excellent work for it, but I have to say, I'm playing RTR4.2 right now as the Brutii and the AI is indeed reluctant to stage amphibious attacks, or even supply it's mainland forces with ample offshore reserves even when hard pressed.

And I like your idea of the way myth took over in the void of ignorance and distorted the perceptions of men in the ancient world...a mythical distorted sense of geography would be pretty cool here. ..

[Hifi]

I've been following this MOD project from the beginning and I have to say, this is one hell of a MOD.

I don't know about u guys, but I sure can't wait for this MOD to be released!

Great Job Hoggy!

[spikke]

when demo hoggy? please a demo, all day i think this mod I WANT PLAY THIS MOD, hoggy give us a small preview
:help: :help:
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Marshal Murat]

The Terra Cotta army was stone soldiers with all of thier armor on.
However plundering has left them without much of thier equipment.
I highly suggest them to be used by Monks, Demons, or as a China 1/2 army unit.

Very expensive, very good defense, good hand to hand.
But terrible morale (can't have supermen)

[mutineer]

Hogster!
Just wanted to say, fantastic stuff! ~:cheers:

Mutineer

[TigerVX]

The Mace Men are fantastic, just the way you drew them, just the way I wanted them ~D

As the the Olog Hai, our architect on our team has taken a little break from making buildings, and since he's so skilld with 3D max he's working on animations, and already has a marching animation for Trolls that nearly complete, so I'd say its going well =)

[doglover]

Here are the Chinese heavy mace unit:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinmace.jpg

Hoggy, to use the modern vernacular: Those dudes are pimp!! My sabomnim in Korea was built like that. Speaking of Korea, I'm pretty open to the map style as long as the Dae-Han Min-guk are still playable ~D Any concept art done for them yet? Sorry I'm pushing, please forgive. There were some excellent references posted for Choson uniforms during Admiral Yi's time, but going back even further, to the three kingdoms period of Korea, we can see some really cool armour and exotic weaponry.

[wilpuri]

It would be great to see a faction modelled on the Thais/Siamese and/or the Khmers.

I've been trying to find some info on Thai warriors, and so far I've come up with a few unit ideas:

Warriors with two swords (may be Karbikrabong Warriors or Daab song muun warriors?)
Swordsmen
Thai fanatics
Ngao Spearmen (elite)
Archers

Elephants (perhaps various kinds?)
Siamese Water-Buffalo cavalry

Some pictures:

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthya3a.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthaya10a.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthaya12c.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthaya13_e.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthaya13_c.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayutthaya15d.jpg

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/ayuthaya2.jpg

Here are some interesting links
http://www.muaythaionline.net/disciplines/weapons.html Some info on thai sword fighting.
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/thai_mythology.htmlThis is a good site, all the pics are from it. You might want to check out the entire site, since it has a lot of info on thai mythology.
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/to_arms_1.htmlFrom the same site as the one I mentioned above. A lot of details about Thai weapons.

I would like to say that what you've done so far is amazing, and that it wont matter much if you leave out the Thai faction, I just thought it would be nice to have them since they have a rich mythology and I've also happened to live there once upon a time. Anyway, keep up the good work! ~:cheers:

EDIT: Another very original unit idea! Don't know how doable it is, though:


http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/images/arms3_c.jpg
Wow Mohdin: This kite (either box or triangular) floated a fire filled pot across enemy lines. The idea was to crash the kite, or drop the pot, into an enemy camp causing fire and panic.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I must chime in and say that those units are beautiful, Hoggy.

I await the release of the mod eagerly [a thing I have been to doing for one or two others; just shows that RTW vanilla is a bit of a disappointment].

I just hope you will use the .rmod format for the release.

I've become an advocate for this little utility. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13848)

It allows mods to be switched on a single installation of RTW - no back-up installations or any other installations needed, saving valuable time and memory. I sincerely hope you (and all other modders) adopt .rmod format for all mods.

Please, at least consider it!

~:cheers:

[hoggy]

Alexander - cheers I'll look into the mod switcher
wilpuri - Thais look good. unfortunately at the moment I'm sticking to the factions we've got but they might be there in future expansions
TigerVX - I was just wondering wether you'd solved the problem we had giant units ie. scaling normal skeletons so that ten foot trolls etc could be done?
Marshal Murat - terracotta golems may be good as a special unit.
spikke - A demo or build of this mod is a long way off, It's unlikely to be released before CA release a patch or add on pack and there is a lot of work to do still.

It looks like the majority of people would like to go for the new map so I think that'll be the way we go. Going to leave it open for a little while longer.

here are the Shaolin Monks in the meantime:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/shao.jpg

[Turin]

Excellent, getting better by the day, and the speed with which you progress is unheard of. I don't believe it wrong to say that you make more models then all other mods combined. Anyway, one slight note: Shaolin monks, like other monks, have nine scars burned on top of their heads. The nine are arranged in a 3 by 3 pattern, square, not diamond and they are noticible.

[hoggy]

I had a go at adjusting the campmap textures to get a more ancient look and improve clarity. What do you think? Eventually obviously, town, bridge, boat models etc will be modded too:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/ground.jpg

[DragoonXXIV]

I dunno... it seems too sparse... Personally i liked the R:TW campaign map textures.

[Dark11]

i love it!!!! those textures are well....hot!

[Seydlitz]

DON'T CHANGE YOUR CAMPAIGN MAP!!

Alright, just wanted to say that before I say This is one of the most fantastic mods I have seen yet. I won't have enough space on my HD to install all the mods I want to play for RTW, but this one will defintley be one of them. Hoggy, you are GOD.

And about the Campaign map:
This is Blue Lotus: Total war! Not Semi-realistic-South-Eastern-Asia-With-A-Monk-Island-and-Demons-in-Russia: Total War. I think a creative campaign map makes the game even more interesting, and this is fantasy anyways! Screw realism!! There are about 7912364 (+ or - 247824) realistic mods out there, with excellent real world geography (like Europa Barbarorum), so let's concentrate on making this game even more funky and mythical. ~D It's more original, and I think it will be funner in the long run.

An idea to maybe fix the problem the AI has with amphibious assaults is connect all the islands so they form a crescent shaped lake in the middle, with the sea on the outside, but then cut through where there is currently sea gaps with a bridgable river. Here is a quick drawing of what I mean (Based off pg.8 map):

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/9308/bluelotusisland0eb.jpg

Then, as a unit idea, you should defintley have the monkey empire out of the Indian Ramayanah as a rebel state or something! I think they'd fit in well with the snow monkey being in already,and all. Ravanah the 10 headed demon and other cool indian demons could be included as well. If you want to see some ideas for them, my friend has the whole Ramayanah in comic book form and I could post some images from it up here.

Otherwise, KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK. This has officially become one of my top 3 favorite mods ~D

~:cheers: - Seyd

P.S. I think those textures for the Campaign Map fit in perfectly with the feel you already have in the mod. Love 'em

[Duke John]

Since you are making a fantasy map, perhaps you could include canyons:

http://chronicles.metw.net/images/canyon.jpg

Should give some interesting battlemaps.

[Raziaar]

Well... I just now found this thread.

The first thing I have to say regarding this mod is:

WOW!

I'm simply floored here, and don't know whether to say I am dissapointed I haven't found it earlier, or am happy that I haven't, for the fact that I have sat nonstop on this thread looking at page after page with eyes wide in amazement at each new image, becoming a constant, nonstop wow fest, whereas if I had discovered it earlier, it wouldn't be quite as intense.

AWESOME MOD! I can't wait to see this thing come out! Honestly, it has also gotten me more interested in chinese and other cultures more ancient army types(was already into Japanese stuff before).

[[GG]vonDöbeln]

I can only agree with what everyone else have said 1000 times already:
~:eek:

Your units are absolutely AMAZING Hoggy!!!!!!!!
Keep up the brilliant work. I for one will get this mod when it is released.

[GG]von Döbeln

[hoggy]

Here are the chinese female hero unit (does anyone know a suitable chinese heroine name for the unit to be named after?):
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/chinwom.jpg

[Al Khalifah]

I'd say Nia or Mei, but that's probaly due to seeing House of the Flying Daggers t'other day.

If you haven't seen this film yet Hoggy, you must. It will give you some excellent inspiration - the Bamboo spearmen would be good (combat bonus in woods ~:) ) or if it were possible for a unit to throw a volley of daggers at the enemy before engaging them in melee (like the Legions do with Javelins) then there could be Flying Daggers. I couldn't help but think of this mod when watching the film - although as Oriental cinema goes, it wasn't that fantastical.

[Shiyuan]

If they were japenese id say Geisha Warriors...but since they Chinese try:

1) What the above guy said

2) Chinese Amazon Warriors

3) Chinese Female Bodygaurd


Try those...great turnout btw

~:)

[junkmonk]

Hey Hoggy.., is it possible to make one person for the hero unit, and maybe a few of their royal body guards.. like 5.. so make that girl, plus 5 other body guards.. would be cool, other than having these clone girls.. you know? And whats with her dress? It looks wierd how its black at the bottom when it flips up? Wyh does it flip up? Also the dress looks very blocky at the bottom... but otherwise great mod! ~:cheers:

[Big_John]

a couple of legendary chinese heroines are hua mu lan and mu gui ying (i know my transliterations suck.. feel free to correct them you chiense speakers). "mu lan maidens"? "flowes of gui ying"? haha.. i have no clue :sweatdrop:

[Turin]

I have to agree with the one person per unit idea.

Also, if possible, one unit per campaign.

Names (Real people):

Yang Gui Fei
Mu Lan
...yeah, there were not that many notable female figures in Chinese history

Names (made up):

Li Qin Fong (blue wind)
Hong Shue Fei (this one is a pun, it can mean flying red blood, or flying red snow, snow is common in real names, blood is not)

If you want a male hero, a MUST is a man named Guan Yu
If there was ever a warrior (a non-mythical one) that people love and worship, it has to be Guan Yu, he personifies all the qualities of a great warrior. Here's a pic:
http://www.magictrade.dk/images/kort/portalthreekingdoms/Guan%20Yu,%20Sainted%20Warrior.JPG
(yes, he is so popular that they made him into a magic card)
Here's my idea: model the man like the generals unit, one Guan Yu with like a small number of other bodyguards. One of them MUST carry a flag bearing the symbol you see in the card, the big Chinese character in the top left corner of the picture, the one on the flag. This is very important because all generals went into battle with someone bearing their name on a banner.

Also, I definitely agree that there needs to be a female hero for the Japanese, but please for the love of kamisama, do not make it a geisha. This is not some cheesy 80's movie where the only things that exist in Japan are sushi, samurai, ninjas anf geishas.
Instead try something like this: in early Japanese history, long before witing and recorded history, Japan was ruled by females, empresses and other female warriors (they were males one too of course). Anyways, there are some legendary females warriors in early Japanese history. They were all horse archers of course.

Another idea for a Japanese hero is someone called Minamoto no Hikaru (literally the light of the house of Minamoto). There are lots of warriors in Japanese history, no duh. But Hikaru is notable because he is the main character in Genji Monogatari (Tale of the Genji). Very very famous work, one that is quasi-mythical. Anyways, he'd be a horse archer too. One with bodyguards (also horse archers) and a white banner the color of the house of Genji.

[Kallimachus]

Personally I really prefer the 'real world' campaign map with the faction positional adjustments discussed to aid balance, though if Japan was placed close to the mainland so a single turn port to land ship hop could be made it surely wouldn't need to be joined.

I also think the idea of retexturing the map to give the mod that even more original feel, though, and I have no idea if this is possible, if each region had its own particular look, or feel it might be even more awesome. Primarily this would probably just involve changing the trees EG: Blossoms for Japan, Jungle in India and possibly Korea, and I dont' know, somthing suitably twisted for the demon regions. Though again, I have no idea of the limits of possibility and, indeed, the workload here ~D .

Cheers

[DragoonXXIV]

Turin: Actually there already is a female Japanese Hero, the Tomoe Gozen unit. Although i completely agree w/ you about Guan Yu.
In my opinion the biggest flaw of the Total War series is how the units are hierarchical, i.e. once you have silver shield pikemen, there's no need to make a phalanx pikemen or levy pikemen. In fact the game heavily discourages sheer masses of lesser troops because almost all line units are 1/turn and take no time to retrain. To balance this you have to either play with the number of troops in a unit or the amount of time it takes to build a unit, perferably both, but in essence you want each unit to fill a specific purpose and not just be a better version of the same thing.
In this vain i think all the heroes should be like Kensai from S:TW, namely by themselves, so alone they'll get surrounded and slaughtered but they're a deadly surpise if mixed with with a regular unit.

[hoggy]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

[Raziaar]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

Well, isn't it possible for the 'general' of a unit to have more hitpoints and abilities than the other units of his formation?

If so, why not just have the commander of a unit be the hero model, and the others be something else and distinctively different and with different, weaker stats. That way it can be the hero, and his 'bodyguards' of sorts.

I dunno, if it works that way, I guess it could be good.

[Myrddraal]

Hoggy, if you make a unit of hero's bodyguards, size 6 with the hero as the officer, thats perfectly possible, one hero per unit. If someone puts the unit size to high, more bodyguards will appear, but only one hero, as there is only ever one officer.

[Lin Chung]

i am not usually a fan of ahistorical games but WOW...this one i'm really looking forward to !
as for female heroes for the chinese....dont forget Hu San-Niang ,a double sword warrior of Liang Shan Po
heres a link for other heroes
http://www.geocities.com/nguyenvfr/English/herosx.html


keep up the good work ...think i'm looking forward to this as much as i did the arrival of RTW itself :bow:

[junkmonk]

Cheers for the name ideas. At the momemt one person units aren't possible in RTW it's a minimum of 6 i think and it depends on your unit size setting so I'm simply making small elite units and naming them after a particular hero. I may be able to do something with general units but it's unlikely I'll be able to name them and all the generals will look the same for every army.

Oh.. ok it would still be cool to have like 10 elite units or something.., but doesn't make much sense naming a group of people to one person does it? Maybe just call them Elite Geisha's or something like that...

[Big_John]

Oh.. ok it would still be cool to have like 10 elite units or something.., but doesn't make much sense naming a group of people to one person does it? Maybe just call them Elite Geisha's or something like that...well, it could be a 'school' of elite warroirs who name theirselves after the heroic warrior they emulate.

[TigerVX]

You can't change officer stats unforunately, they're hard coded I believe. All officers get +1 hitpoint from the unit they're attatched to, and all generals get +5 I think. Otherwise everything is the same so a unit with one attack and one defense will still have a centurion with one defense and one attack, only it will have another hitpoint.

[Red Tide]

Hey Hoggy, just wanted to say that I have been looking at this mod and it is really exicting seeing all the new units that you are producing. They are definatly the highest quality that is out there. I have one suggestion though, you are talking about adding more factions like the mongols, koreans, indians etc etc, which is fine. But I think you should add a european style faction, with knights and such to clash with the asian cultures. I've always wanted to take my samurai up against an european army and vice versa. I think that it would add alot of variety to your already beautiful mod. Please consider my suggestion, thank you.

Red Tide

[Kageka]

((excuse my grammar :embarrassed: ))

First of all I have to say that you (Hoggy) are a one talented genius. Hats of for you! :bow: ~:) :bow:
You deliver high quality models and sketches faster than the speed of light.

The concept of a fantasy Asia is entirely in my taste. As a matter of fact me and two of my friends have been creating a strategic war board game in a fantasy Asia. The project went along and the rules and factions are done, but we have never polished it. In other words we haven’t play tested it enough and we haven’t cleaned it up and packaged it so to speak. And if I have to be honest I never think we will finish it.

Why do I talk about my project here? Well since that project wont be finished I think I can snitch a few ideas from our game and share them with you if you want (not that I think you’re not able to come up with your own ideas).

First of all I see that you still call the different factions by the culture it’s derived from (Chinese, Japanese, Indian). I don’t know if you have come up with names for your factions already but still I have a few ideas for the factions.



About them troops...
But before that I have to tell you that I personally think that you should cut down on standard troop types and then let every sub-faction within the factions have there own special troops.

For example the Japanese faction could have the following as basic troops available for all sub-factions (clans): Ashigaru, Yari samurai, Samurai swords, Samurai archers, Cavalry archers, Yari Cavalry, Samurai Cavalry.

One of the Japanese clans could be more armour orientated and have special troops as: Heavy samurai, Heavy Cavalry.

Another Japanese clan may be religious “fanatics” therefore have special troops like: Kamikaze, Sohei monks.

The third clan may go for a balance between elegance and defence and because of that have troops like: Elite swordsmen, Naginata.

The reason I think this specialization would be improve the game play is that I gives more personality, strength and vulnerability to every faction and sub-faction. Will make every faction a special way to handle battle with the faction's strategic profile.



Faction name ideas
Back to the faction-names then.

-THE CLAN LORDS-
This is what we called our Japanese faction in the board game. I think it’s a fitting name since the name sounds powerful and telling at the same time. It also shows that the faction’s sub-factions/clans war amongst each other but stand together when their people/kingdom/realm is threatened.


-THE GOLDEN EMPIRE-
Or just the “Empire”. This is what we called our Chinese-inspired faction in our board game. The combination of Golden and Empire sounds as vast, strong, ancient and yet progressive as China was/is. We didn’t hack up our fantasy-china in sub factions. But I guess a Total War game should be as balanced as possible so hacking up China in sub-factions is probably the wisest thing to do. Still I think calling the sub-factions fiefdoms or states more fitting than calling them clans. But that’s just my opinion.


-THE RAJ-
Ok we didn’t have any India-influenced faction in our board game so I have no real background or such for this name-pick. But hey, Raj, that’s Indian =)


-THE SENATE-
Well this is a really good name for the monks and priests island. No doubt there. I think you should include asian “Good” mythical creatures as mounts or warrior beasts
into the Senate’s army list.

Examples of “fitting” troops you already have sketched are: Shishi Riders, Copper dragon.

In our board game we had a similar faction like the senate. This faction was heavily influenced by Tibet and Nepal. It was placed among the mountains and glaciers and was called “the Mountain hood”.

Except monks and priest we had tibetan spearmen and guards. But we also included YETI (we pictured them as white haired/furred, black/red skinned majestic hulks about 12 feet tall). We had troops like Yeti Wrestlers (unarmed berserkers) and Yeti Warriors (armed with wooden clubs and Iron helmets).

So one idea is if the Senate’s island is a rocky and snowy highland of mountains and such. This would also give the Senate-faction a more steady profile due the purely cultural influences from Tibet and Nepal.


-THE HORDE-
Well guess who they are? Mongols of course! =) … may not be the best name suggestion, but hey it works???


-THE RESTLESS-
Our game didn’t have one big faction of baddies. We had about four evil factions to be exact. One of them consisted of ghosts and undead. We called this faction “the Restless”. I don’t know if you like the idea of splitting the Demon faction into smaller factions. But as I said before, I really think it would give every faction a more distinctive profile if they were more coherent.

My suggestion of typical troops (that you already have included/sketched) for the Restless would be: Zombie ashigaru, Undead samurai, Ghost geisha, Demon samurai, Floating hags. You could also include the terracotta-army here, make them into some ghostly animated golem type of thing.


-THE LEGION-
Maybe not the most original name for a demon-army, but why not? It sounds fearsome, strong, furious and without mercy.
Typical troops for these guys could be: Bakemono, Rokurokubi infantry, Hanya infantry, Wang liangs.

I also think you should include the Oni into the bad guys (not very original but effective). In our game we had troops like Oni Mace infantry (semi naked, armed with iron mace) and Oni Ironbacks (armed in iron helmets, bracers and belly plate. Armed with two-handed iron clubs). Maybe include some more evil-looking dragon hound mounted oni.


-THE GATHERING-
In our game we had a faction of rogues, bandits and such. We called this faction “the Bandit swarm”… but now I find the name a bit lame. The Gathering gives a more mystical dimension to the faction considering that it could be the low-life cannon fodder part of the “evil” factions. The Gathering could be more of a cult that attracts scum, outlaws and demi-humanoids maybe?

If so troops that you already have made and fit in here could be: Basket ronin, Kappa archers, Snow monkey infantry, Kappa beastriders, Elephant tower…
Ad troops like chinese pirates and really scruffy bandits like the ones from Akira Kurosawa’s film “the Seven samurai”.


I hope that some of my suggestions here will be of some help (not that you seem to need any help though…).
And again; I think the mod you’re doing is going to be the coolest part in the Total War series. The only reason I will buy Rome TW is because of this mod (and the Middle earth TW mod). ~:cheers:

[hoggy]

Cheers for hero info everybody. Some top ideas in there Kageka it's a shame the board game didn't get done it sounds good.

As an aside, thanks to DJ and TosaInu Blue Lotus has got it's own sub-thread. I think the one long thread was getting a bit unmanageable, hopefully this will make things a lot easier to find especially for new people. Hope you like it.

[CaeroxVII]

Good to see you finally got one, this mod(or just the models alone)deserves it, lets hope the gameplay of the mod can match the models :tongue2:

[The_678]

Yeah man congrats on the forum. This is the mod I'm lookign forward to most but I haven't posted yet here though I've been following it since the beginning. It's looks amazing and keep up the good work.

[spikke]

hoggy, when you think you finish this mod ?

[DemonArchangel]

Dude, give the monks the half moon glaive.

[DragoonXXIV]

DemonArchangel: You mean a Naginata? I think the Japanese sohei monks already have those.
What i'd like to see for the monks are the Japanese Onmyou with ranged spell attacks

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

I had a go at adjusting the campmap textures to get a more ancient look and improve clarity. What do you think? Eventually obviously, town, bridge, boat models etc will be modded too:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/ground.jpg

I totally agree with you about the new texture for the strat map particularly in from the coastline...though the jungles of SE Asia should be super lush with really bright vibrant greens and not the dark greens of RTW...Permanent Green Light is the coulour
:balloon2: Lighter than that..

[Saranalos]

I just wanted to say looks really good so far and is the view count of this topic really correct cos its at 36,000? ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[kendonosensei]

Hoggy, mate, I hope you had a good holiday. I have come across a 100% authentic Japanese name for you. It refers to a group of female warriors who fought in the Boshin Civil War, 1868-9.

They were called the "Joushigun" and are almost legendary in Japanese culture. Best of all, they were small in number - so they're a true elite.

If you've got a name for the female samurai heroes already, I hope you don't mind considering this.

About the campaign map. Yes, I don't think naval power should be too important. But at the same time, I think the Demon faction needs to be more accessible - else the Chinese faction'll get the brunt of the fighting. Why not have it similar to the original map but change some things. For example you could have some land connections between the different factions, while still making the sea very important.

Hoggy, those Chinese female warriors look amazing. I think someone has seen HERO too much ~;) As to a name for the unit, I'll ask my Chinese ex about that. She might be able to come up with something.

"Dao Ma Dan" is a reference that means something like "warrior woman" but it's not appropriate here. A "Dao Ma Dan" is supposed to be fully clothed in armour. Just mentioned it in case someone found a reference to it.

By the way, we CAN'T give hero units the name of ONE PERSON. It has to refer to an organisation or a unit. Come on, just because Hoggy can't rewrite the game to make them look different, doesn't mean that they're the same person ~D

If we can't get a Chinese name for them, how about something like "Sisterhood of the Red Lotus" (as they're wearing red robes).

Stay cool, dude! ~:cool:

[Galen]

Again Hoggy Got to say I LOVE THIS MOD :) I can't wait to play it ;) and would love to play even a beta of it.

Asian (especailly chinese) warfare has always been of interest to me, especailly when their demonology is inovlved in the wars!

Heh those women look like Flying Snow during the first part of Hero, which IMHO is quite alright since i liked Flying Snow ;) ;), as for a name the most famous of Chinese Women warriors was Hua Mu-Lan but as a group there were the:

Taiping women warriors or something like that I don't know if that name is spelled right or not:
Among the fiercest and most-feared soldiers of the Taipings were the divisions of beautiful women warriors dressed in gorgeous silks who often fought independently from men. These were known as “the silken armies.”

They were a wierd lot who fought to spread their own bizarre form of Christianity, but for the sake of this game you can just have them as a clan of women warriors (Though I do like the name Silken Armies) :)

[hoggy]

Hello there, again top stuff on the name and map ideas..
spikke- the mod is likely to be a long running thing and the release at least after a CA patch. I'm not in any hurry at the moment just enjoying the modelling of units and modding of RTW.

on a seperate issue I'm taking a week off from working on the mod. I've just started work again after some time off in Dec and I need to get back into the flow of evening working. Will be back to modelling and modding next week when I'm going to start on the Chinese cavalry.

[Bulten]

I must agree with the dude who encouraged a fantasymap. I think it would be way more fun than to play in actual asia... Nepallike mountainchains could be included :D Peace!!!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

I must agree with the dude who encouraged a fantasymap. I think it would be way more fun than to play in actual asia... Nepallike mountainchains could be included :D Peace!!!
~:cheers:

And of course that will include indigenous Nepalese and Tibetan style kingdoms with the possibilities that could offer for new units...

[Bulten]

~:cheers:

And of course that will include indigenous Nepalese and Tibetan style kingdoms with the possibilities that could offer for new units...

I know :D It would be awesome! ^^

Btw, Hoggy how much work is still to be done with this mod?

[DemonArchangel]

DemonArchangel: You mean a Naginata? I think the Japanese sohei monks already have those.
What i'd like to see for the monks are the Japanese Onmyou with ranged spell attacks

No.
The half moon glaive
Like what the Wang Liang is carrying.

[kendonosensei]

Hoggy, here's a name for the Chinese hero unit.

"Hong Se Niang Zi Jun" (Sisterhood of the Red Army). A bit of a mouthful at the moment, I know.

They were a group of peasant women who rebelled against the Despotic governments of the early 20th century in China. Current propaganda says that they were "good Communist women", but in reality they were just ordianary women rebelling against oppressive policies. So these beautiful gong-fu maidens could be part of any "red army".

If you don't like that name, you could have

"Hong Lian Niang Zi Jun" (Sisterhood of the Red Lotus)

I think both names are good.


I would imagine them to be the daughters of aristocrats, officials, generals and merchants, who have found their dreams hindered by traditional parents, or society. So they formed a secret society, where it would be easier for them to practice their martial prowess. Now with the onset of war, they have pledged their support to the Dragon Empress (ruling Empress, not wife of the Emperor), who has gladly let them fight for their people.

Perhaps you could spice the plot of the mod up a little, by saying that the Empress' husband was murdered, and instead of giving power to a male relative, she took it for herself.

[hoggy]

Hello all, we could do with some ideas for faction names, symbols and colours for the Mongol and Korean factions. Here’s what we’ve got so far for other factions:

Chinese 1 Zhuanshi Clan (symbol = Dragon, colour = red and yellow)
Chinese 2 Yuwan Clan (symbol = YingYang, colour = blue and yellow)


Japan 1 Akagi Clan (symbol = Fan, colour = black and yelow)
Japan 2 Zensen Clan (symbol = Wave, colour = white and silver)


Demon Yomi Empire (symbol = Demon Head, colour = black and dark red)
India Krishnapur (symbol = Minaret, colour = gold and purple)

any ideas for mongol and korean welcome.

[The Panda Centurion]

For a Mongol faction, i think the silhouette of a horse archer would make a good symbol. I can't think of any really good names though, since my favoured subject is European and Mediterranean history. :nice:

Btw, I have been watching this thread for a while and i must say it is looking very promising! Keep up the good work. :2thumbsup:

[DragoonXXIV]

Firstly, i think a minaret isn't a good idea to repersent Indian, i would recommend an elephant, elephant head, or a lotus.

That aside, some ideas for mongols:
Golden Khanate
Warriors of the Steppe
Horse Lords
for the symbols i would recommend a horse or a skull

For the Koreans:
I have no clue about names, but for the symbol you can use a turtle, fish, mask, or the South Korean flag.

All that aside, great work so far and i'm greatly impressed with your attension to deal, especially with the layout and minor details.

[Meneldil]

Mongol : Karazaï khanate ? Symbol, a bow

Korea : Koryŏ Kingdom (I think it's the name of a legendary Korean KD) Symbol, no idea

[Kageka]

-MONGOL-

Symbol: Black sillhuette of a wild/powerfull horse (head tilted backwards, open mouth, flowwing mane, kicking and galloping hindlegs) on a beige -or- grey background.

Color: Beige/Grey and Black.

Name Ideas:
Empire of the Horse
the Golden Horde
Realm of the Khan
Steppe lords
the Khan Empire
the Great Horde





-KOREAN-

Symbol: A white tiger head whit blue eyes and red stripes. Or a white tiger head on a red and blue dotless yingyang.

Color: White, red and blue.

Name ideas:
Maybe the different old names of korea/korean dynsasties?

Gojoseon
Ballhae/Silla
Baekje/Shilla
Goryeo
Goguryeo
Joseon
Hanguk

Or why not use the korea-like name that Jenns suggested in the "Army list"-forum - CHOSON? (reminds you of Gojoson or Joseon).



I have to agree with DragoonXXIV about the minaret as the faction's symbol. The colors are great though (purple and gold). I like the lotus idea. A purple lotus on a golden background -or- a golden lotus on a purple backround... I think that it would look great.

[Iron-Chef]

just here to say hoggy that you've done a great job on the mod. i cant wait to get my hands on it.

keep up the good work ~:cheers:

[wlesmana]

First of all, hoggy, congrats on the best looking mod for RTW out there. I love the fact that you're doing fun units. It makes the mod looks more unique.

Just one minor thing I have a little problem with: Shaoling monks with swords.
I think they should use bo sticks instead. Sword is more familiar with the Wutang or the Hoa San mountain schools. Although, you could always add in Wutang in there :)

Keep up the awesome work!

[infernalbob]

First just let me say it's a great mod that ur making, if blue lotus: total war was a cd game being sold i'd probably buy it. Just one quest. could u give out a guide on how you did it so other people ( like me) who are just starting could learn. it would really help me since im just a noob. Well, keep up the good job.

[hoggy]

Ok, here are the updated factions:

Chinese 1 - Zhuanshi Clan (symbol = Dragon, colour = red and yellow)
Chinese 2 - Yuwan Clan (symbol = YingYang, colour = blue and yellow)


Japan 1 - Akagi Clan (symbol = Fan, colour = black and yelow)
Japan 2 - Zensen Clan (symbol = Wave, colour = white and silver)


Demon - Yomi Empire (symbol = Demon Head, colour = black and dark red)
India - Krishnapur (symbol = Elephant head, colour = gold and purple)

Mongol - Karazai Khanate (symbol = Horses head, colour = gold and green)
Korea - Choson Clan (symbol = Turtle, colour = red and blue)

[Big_John]

aww shucks, i was hoping the japanese would be factioned into shogunates instead of clans. but only b/c shogunate is such a great word.

[ramareddy]

Hoggy,

First of all let me congratulate you on being on the only people still continuing a RTW mod.

I didn't think this mod would be that cool, but I didn't realize you would be incorparating Mongols, Indians, or the Koreans. I think the problem with most Civ-oriented RTS games is that they completely forget about India and generalize non-European countries in general. You do not know how glad I was to see an Indian faction among your roster. Back in the Summer I had an Indian faction unit list that I posted at the RTW forum. I can give you the unit list if you'd like. Or I can make up a new unit list even, I probably have the time. Infact, I really want to help make the Indian faction memorable in this mod.

One more thing

The "-pur" in Krishnapur is actually of Persian origin, so is not Sanskritic. Now if you were to say "Krishnanagar" ( Dark City) or "Krishnagiri" (Dark Hill) it would be completely of Sanskritic and more "indigenously" Indian. Just nitpicking.

Keep it up.

[WrathOfMe]

hey hoggy great work on the mod, and to the person that posted last, i would just like to point out that there are MANY mods still going on, including the one that i am part of, so please dont say things like that, some may take offense.

[kendonosensei]

MOVED

[Emperior Eric]

Mod is looking awesome dude! ~:cheers:

I am waiting for battlefield 2 but this mod is gonna bring Rome back for me

[Jay Tee]

Hi Hoggy (and others),

I've been following this mod since the beginning and must say I'm really looking forward to this one. Esp. the units appeal more than the units from the orignal game.

Here are some ideas about the resources that could be added to the map (I hope these are moddable too, wouldn't make much sense to see olive oil in China!!). Maybe you will find them useful:

- Rice: obviously to replace grain. Should occur along river banks and have the same population growth benefits as grain
- Gold
- Silver
- Jade: imperial green jade was thougth of as the most precious stone in the world. It was found deep in one of the remotest mines in the world, in a valley in the shadow of the Himalayas (in what is now Burma). Maybe it can be made a minable resource that has a higher profit than gold and only occur n one place.
- Porcelain: to be found in China and Japan
- Silk: to be found in China, Japan and maybe India
- Spices
- Timber (or possibly Bamboo)
- Wild animals
- Tea: again in China, India and Japan

Hope this is of any use,

Greetz,
JT

[hoggy]

Cheers Jay Tee, blindfaithnogod was just looking at the resources. Anyone else have more ideas for resources on the BL map?

[Jay Tee]

Are you guys going to include Wonders in the BLTW map? I could do some research on that if you want to.

[blindfaithnogod]

the ideas about the resources are great. i will definitly keep those in mind. as for the wonders, i dont know, we hadn't talked about that one. if you have any suggestions we'd love to hear them. and im sure we could figure something our. ~:cheers:

[ramareddy]

Eric:

Sorry about that. It's every time I click on a link or go to a thread where a Mod team is supposed to post their progress it's usually dead. I will say that one of the LOTR mod and a few others are still alive. However, the one that came out first( I think) was the Ancient China one, and I recently read that they're on the verge of quitting. My immediate reaction was " Jeez, if these guys are about to quit, who else has a chance?". I had thought of them as the most dedicated mod team, so I had lost hope in a lot of mods.


What exactly do you guys need?

[ramareddy]

Eric:

Sorry about that. It's every time I click on a link or go to a thread where a Mod team is supposed to post their progress it's usually dead. I will say that one of the LOTR mod and a few others are still alive. However, the one that came out first( I think) was the Ancient China one, and I recently read that they're on the verge of quitting. My immediate reaction was " Jeez, if these guys are about to quit, who else has a chance?". I had thought of them as the most dedicated mod team, so I had lost hope in a lot of mods.


Hoggy and other modders:

What exactly do you guys need? Have you cooked up a unit list for the Indians? If not, allow me ( please).

[hoggy]

Ideas for Wonders would be good too to replace existing ones. I think we can replace them quite easily.
ramaready - check the armylist there's an indian one there already but any unit ideas welcome.

[DragoonXXIV]

Some wonder ideas:
Teracota Army
Goldan Pavilion
Elephant Graveyard (I know it's supposed to be in Africa but it would be cool)
Gates of the Underworld
Forbidden City
Tokugawa Shrine
Buddha at Bangkok (largest reclining buddha)

[shifty157]

The question is though what bonuses would they give? These are just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Teracota Army - +1 experience to all troops trained
Golden Pavilion - increases income by 25%.
Elephant Graveyard - Faction may train generic elephant unit. Elephants trained dont run amok (or is this hardcoded?). Otherwise elephants trained get +2 hitpoints.
Gates of the Underworld - required by demons to train troops in any province.
Forbidden City - number of turns to build buildings is reduced by 1. Only affects buildings that take 5 or more turns to build.
Tokugawa Shrine - +20% public order in all cities
Buddha at Bangkok - Two temples may be built in each city (or is this hardcoded at 1?). Otherwise increases effectiveness of religious temples.

[Jay Tee]

If Wonders are included I think that they shouldn't give bonuses that are too high. In fact, I think the Wonders in RTW are somewhat ott. Besides that, they should be spread out more evenly than in RTW, so that every faction can have access to one max in the beginning.

Here are some examples that actually exist in the real world (maybe you prefer imaginary ones for this fantasy mod):

- Great Wall of China: could give some defensive bonus, for example a +1 for defense for all units trained in the province with the wall. Should extent over more than one province but I don't think that will be possible? Not sure either what you should do if different parts of the wall are owned by different factions.
- Taj Mahal: so beautiful that it will attract people from all over the world to see it. Province in which it is situated has a +1 growth bonus
- Tripitaka Koreana: Housed in the halls of Haein Temple, the Koryo Tripitaka (Taejang'kyong) is the most highly regarded woodblock edition among the thirty or so Tripitaka canons existing in the world today because of its enormous size of 80,000 wooden printing blocks and for its accuracy. It is Korean Buddhism's most sacred treasure. It is from the 13th(?) century. See this link for more info: http://www.sutra.re.kr/english/default.asp
- Borobudur: Hugh and beautifully decorated piramid like Budhist temple from the 8-9th century in Indonesia. Makes building temples cheaper? Could be situated on the Monk Island? I think there sould be some kind off temple Wonder on the Monk Island anywayz.
- Angkor Wat: Temple/Mausoleum for Khmer ruler Suryavarman II, situated in Cambodia. 65 meter high piramid with an area of 1 square kilometer. Possible bonus: gives access to a special type of ancilliary if this province is owned.

[blindfaithnogod]

keep the ideas comin guys. i know it helps my motivation and creativity. ~:cheers:

[ramareddy]

I like the emphasis you've put on the elephants and the chariot, as they were the priemeir arm of the Indian military in all mythic accounts.

Alright, here are some unit ideas:

I think the bow that the Golden Archer carries should be HUGE. When I say huge, I mean so that the bottom of the bow touches
the ground, as Megasthenes or Arrian said that Indian Longbows did. They can have armor piercing or long-range capabilities
or both.

http://www.krackow.com/asia.html

http://www.angelfire.com/il2/annatar/lbow.html


Also, a Chakra Thrower unit would be very distinctive and add to Indian uniqueness. They would have the range of skirmishing
units in RTW and be very effective against lightly armored troops. you might want to think about making them at the top of the
tech tree or elite or something.


http://www.flight-toys.com/rings/chackrum.html

http://www.whoosh.org/issue8/rudnick6.html



I was thinking for Indian Missile units, and what special abilities they could have that would be distinctly Indian and usable. I think the ability you are looking is called "mantra". In every Indian story there seems to be a hero
that chants a mantra before discharging an arrow or throwing a weapon. It could work like a attack enhancer, making it possible to kill more troops in that single volley. It could also have a effect on enemy morale. I think the
Golden Archers, Chakra Throwers, and Arjuna Chariots should have them. Maybe the Arjuna Chariots should have a more devestating effect, like an explosion.


Maybe you could replace the Tribal Macemen with Vanara Macemen. Vanara are monkey-men, below is a picture of Hanuman, an important of the Ramayana. In the picture, Hanuman is holding a "Gada", a two-handed mace. It's actually very much like the giant macemen you made for a Chinese factions.

http://www.carnaticcorner.com/hig/la-hanuman.jpg


Rakshasa: Indian Demons in every Indian myth I can think of, possibly a rebel faction or part of the demons in your mod.
They could have a wide variety of units.

http://www.vahini.org/ramakataplaatjes/battle-rama-ravana.jpg

http://www.familynyou.com/admin/images/236/Rakshasa%20copy.JPG

[Kageka]

Nice research Ramareddy. Those Chakra throwers would really give some extra spice and character to the Krishnapur. Like the idea alot, hope they include them into the game.

But i don´t agree with you about the hanuman to be included into the Krishnapur army. I don't know if you have read the 'General'-forum yet, but a few days ago I wrote a post about making an entire faction of ape/monkey-men, called Hanuman (or Sun Wukong) after the "monkey god".

I think it would be be intressting with a good/neutral non-human faction. And besides that; the Krishnapur are way to shielded and privilege the way their starting location are now. The Hanuman Kingdom are jungle dewelling and would naturally have their starting location close to the Krishnapur.

Another thing I forgot to write on the Hanuman-post on the 'General'-forum is that to make the Hanuman's culture look different (...and not as a monkey/ape mirror image of the Krishnapurs culture) would be if the inspiration came from the cultures of Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand and Indonesia. The arcitecture could look like the one i Ankhor Vat. Great temple citys shielded and semi-overgrown by the jungle, protected by the noble children of Hanuman.

Well, I think it could be a cool feature in the world of the Blue Lotus. But that's what I think. I really hope Hoggy & co will consider the possibillity of the Hanuman. If not as an own faction, they could at least be a major part of another faction... ~:)

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It suddenly struck me...what would such battles sound like?

Not just men yelling and howling, but with this mythical component, the battles would have some pretty eery sounds; women wailing, and demons screeching and baying, in defeat or triumph.


Who will come up with such peculiar sound files?


And the music..the music will be very important. Authenitic music few of us have ever heard before unless we are scholars of those obscure cultures.

Please Hoggy, blow us away with really daring choices of authentic and bizarre oriental music...

And someone that is into recording; make some really mind bending battle sound effects. What do ghostly geishas sound like when they're using their socery on the battlefield.

I want to shudder when I hear it...with a cold sweat breaking out..

[hoggy]

ramareddy - top stuff there. I toyed with Chakra throwers when i was thinking about the indian units. I'm going to add them to the Indian army if I get time or possibly as mercenaries in that area.

The Hanuman monkey units will be rebels and mercenaries in the SW section of the map. I can't really afford the amount of extra time involved in having them as a faction sadly.

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

[Marshal Murat]

In RTW there are plagues.
Could all Demon armies carry the plague, but not really kill them?
If its hardcoded, well to bad, but it would fit that the Demons would have some form of pestilence or otherwise, follow them.

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

[Bulten]

Will the Indians have som growth bonus beacuase of the kama sutra? ;P

Will the Indians have some growth bonus because of the kama sutra? ;P

[blindfaithnogod]

i dont think we can mod in better sex. ~D

[ramareddy]

hoggy,

If you can, call the "Hanuman" something else. In Indian tradition they are called the Vanara. If anything, use South-East Asia name for them just for more variety.

[Kageka]

Ramareddy
Well you have a good point there. The race of ape men is infact called Vanara. But when I came up with the idea of making an entire faction of these guys I found it proper to call their kingdom after their king/god (and not after their race) - therefor calling them the Hanuman. Another version could have been to call them Sun Wukong wich is the chinese counterpart/version of the monkey diety.

But after I PM´ed Hoggy about the Hanuman (ie Vanara) there is no real point to call these monkey men Hanuman. Hoggy told me that if these guys will be included then they will probably be mercenary units.

So to call them Vanara is probably more fitting than to call them Hanuman or Sun Wukong. Because they aint a kingdom/faction any more, instead they are mercenarys and should be called after their race.

[ramareddy]

Hoggy,

For the Japanese factions, Battle Field Ninja have vote. I'm not sure how Ghurkas will be different, but ninjas are a must. Maybe the japanese factions can have better assassins because they're ninjas? Also, the Yumis that Japanese Archers will use weren't used for volleys I don't think. From what I understand the arrow was released without any angle up or down, parallel to the ground. Maybe the Japanese Archers can have worse range then most archers, but be very accurate and armor penetrating.

Go with the fantasy map.

I'm curious to know if that "Mantra" ability can be given to Indian missile units. We should think of some more special abilities for each faction. I'm sure breaking from RTW special abilities will be refreshing.

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

[SingeDebile]

I finely had to get an account here just give you some ideas. Ive been following your progress for sometime now but i couldnt take it. Great job on the mod thus far, you can only hope activision notices you.

Here is my idea. Since your dealing with the supernatural and even the human units are super-human. I figured you could play with the speeds of the units. Ie one type of demon might be really fast, imagine this haord swiftly runinig through a field. Of course you would balence this by say making them tire easily or making them otherwise weak (you could even compliment it with a cool sound effect).

The same goes for unit combat animations. Some of the super strong units that are fewer in number but higher in skill could be represented by exicuting their combat moves with equal speed and grace. Probobly killing one other unit per hit (of course there are say 10:1 so he wouldnt be overpowerd).

Going along this direction you could have a demon unit type that Never tires. Maybe they are slow and expensive but they are tough and quite simply never tire.

Basically I believe that by "playing" with these attributes (someone who kills with almost every hit or someone who blocks almost every hit), and the speed of animations or movement would Greatly Help give a fantastical feel to playing the game. GL
-Yann Schutter

[Zafer]

If the Tibetans are factored in how would that faction work? Is it possible to have a pacifist faction in any Total War game? Could they raise any kind of real miltary force beyond some kind of spies or police type agents and diplomats to be used solely upon the strategy map?

Heh, the Tibetans had an empire too. The notion of of Tibetans being pacifist by nature is very much a Hollywood stereotype. Their empire collapsed in 842. And as recent as 1975 the last CIA-funded Tibetan guerilla bases in northern Nepal were shut down. Believe it or not Tibetans also have a small community of Tibetan Muslims, given official patronage by the 5th Dalai Llama in the 17th century. Anyways

I still think a Turco-Mongol faction is essential in this game, as much if not more an Indian faction.

Uygur Khanate 745-840 AD
http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/btn_GeographyMaps/AD%20745-840%20uigur%20empire.gif

Another map showing the Uygur Khanate, Turfan Empire (in red lines), Yellow Uygur Empire (when Uygurs became predominantly Muslim, Buddhist Uygurs were then referred to as "Yellow Uygurs". So the Yellow Uygur Empire is Buddhist). And lastly the Kara-Kitai, another Turkic people who converted to Islam at around 1000 AD.

Most Turkic factions converted to Islam at around 740-1000 AD, I can give you information on their original pagan religion if you wish.

The empire of choice among these to include in Blue Lotus would probably be, in my opinion, the Gök Türk (Tujue) Empire.

http://abuss.narod.ru/Biblio/Maps/map70.gif

[ramareddy]

I still think a Turco-Mongol faction is essential in this game, as much if not more an Indian faction.
-Zafer

See, I have to disagree. I think the problem with most ancient/ medeival strategy games is that they COMPLETELY leave out any visage of an Indian influence. South Asian empires are not as well known as others, but that doesn't mean they did nothing, or were uninfluential beyond South Asia. These countries are vastly underrated and under appreciated. Not to mention, in context to the game, India has a much longer history of written folk-lore and myths when compared to pastoralist steppe peoples.

[Meneldil]

Mongols are just as important as indians.
Both of them will be in game, so what's the point ?

[hoggy]

Firstly apologies for slow movement recently, a lot is being done just that a lot of it is behind the scenes nitty gritty stuff. The new patch requires some implimentation for starters. Blindfaithnogod is currently dealing with that and implimenting the current units amongst other things. justmeandthedog is currently writing something to speed up the input of names in the project and Sykotyk Rampage is doing some fantastic demon portraits amongst other things.

Marshal Murat - plague sounds good, not sure if it can be coded though

ramaready - we wont have battlefield ninjas but japanese factions spys may look like ninjas and may possibly add them later as mercenaries

Ferocious_Imbecile - tibettans won't be having their own faction but will be available to chinese factions or as mercenaries

SingeDebile - unfortunately unit speed is tied to the animation speed so it might prove to be too big a job but might be worth a look.

Indians are in as a full faction and Mongols as a mini faction (ie less unit types not smaller)

[Big_John]

problem with plague is that it kills peopel in the cities, so unless you could unbind recruitment from city population, a permanent plague in all demon cities would be bad for their army.. maybe you can give the demons a building that counteracts the plague growth hit? make sure the AI builds it immediately though..

[DragoonXXIV]

I'm pretty sure that only random plague is hard-coded, although it might be posssible to make the demon lands more likely to contract plague. Also why bother leaving it up to the AI to build something, just have the demon lands and neighboring lands start with the super-health (anti-plague) buildings, also it means that demons will have a hard-time recruiting outside of demon-lands as plague will kill of potential population, which i think makes sense. However if demons will have plague i think it will still decimate thier armies.

[Lonely Soldier]

I was just thinking, in regards to the sound, that I have seen reference to Japanese arrow heads having a whistle incorporated into them on occasion. maybe this could be a fear inducing option in place of flaming arrows for some archer unit in the mod.

Hoggy, keep up the incredible work!

[ramareddy]

What's the reasoning behind not having Ninjas? They might not have fit too well in Shogun, but in a game based on Asian fantasy and folklore they are a must for one or both of the the Japanese factions.

[Big_John]

What's the reasoning behind not having Ninjas? They might not have fit too well in Shogun, but in a game based on Asian fantasy and folklore they are a must for one or both of the the Japanese factions.but how would you implement them? personally, i think a unit of many ninjas fighting like ordinary soldiers on the battlefield would be lame. but i think ninjas as assassins is fine, if unimaginative.

[ramareddy]

Well to be "unimaginative": One would use Ninjas the same way that they were used in Shogun ( or RTW Arcani). How would you use them in Ohio?

Also, I just think it would be interesting if there was some variation in the strategic units between factions. For example, maybe a ninja could be an expensive, experienced assassin or it could be a consolidated assassin-spy. I think in STW there were Shinobi, those were cool. How about a unit strictly to end seiges? A Pathfinder unit with long range sight and ambush spotting capabilities? Think of the possibilities with the Demon faction. A cheap unit that would just be used to prevent the movement of an enemy army. An agent that looked like an army on the strategic map, and would die once an army tried to engage it in battle.

There's only going to be 7 or 8 factions, I think, so we might as well have as much diversity as possible. There is a lot of potential, but come on. Ninjas!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

Well to be "unimaginative": One would use Ninjas the same way that they were used in Shogun ( or RTW Arcani). How would you use them in Ohio?

Also, I just think it would be interesting if there was some variation in the strategic units between factions. For example, maybe a ninja could be an expensive, experienced assassin or it could be a consolidated assassin-spy. I think in STW there were Shinobi, those were cool. How about a unit strictly to end seiges? A Pathfinder unit with long range sight and ambush spotting capabilities? Think of the possibilities with the Demon faction. A cheap unit that would just be used to prevent the movement of an enemy army. An agent that looked like an army on the strategic map, and would die once an army tried to engage it in battle.

There's only going to be 7 or 8 factions, I think, so we might as well have as much diversity as possible. There is a lot of potential, but come on. Ninjas!


Yeah, I'd really feel sad if Hoggy left out the old Shinobi/Ninja/Battlefield Ninja thing from the old STW game. That was a pretty cool aspect of the game. I loved building tea houses then suddenly having all those shit disturbing spies going around agitating things for my neighbours.

[Big_John]

How would you use them in Ohio?mostly, i tell my ninja to get more beer while i'm watching the game.. otherwise he usually just sits in his room listening to skynard and getting toked.

[Zanderpants]

I was just thinking, in regards to the sound, that I have seen reference to Japanese arrow heads having a whistle incorporated into them on occasion. maybe this could be a fear inducing option in place of flaming arrows for some archer unit in the mod.

Hoggy, keep up the incredible work!

Those "Tulip bulb" arrow heads were used at the beginning of a battle to alert the gods as to what the humans were about to do. Only one would be fired by each side though.


mostly, i tell my ninja to get more beer while i'm watching the game.. otherwise he usually just sits in his room listening to skynard and getting toked.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Well at least they'll do it without anbody noticing.....
www.ninjaburger.com

[Paul Peru]

Indians are in as a full faction and Mongols as a mini faction (ie less unit types not smaller)
Oh, please! Can't we have ferocious Mongol Midget Maidens biting demon knees off?

On a more serious note:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43291

The number of factions is hard-coded, and so are the mappings to the culture types and the behaviour of Roman factions as a group
Were you aware of this? Will Roman, Barbarian, Carthaginian, Greek, Egyptian and Eastern be adaptable to BL's needs?
Luckily Carthaginians are portrayed as quite demonic in RTW ~;)

[blindfaithnogod]

yes we were aware of those limits on modding. we do have it all figured out. it does limit use asfar as cultures are concerned. but we have a plan that will work quite well. but thanks for the heads up. we're, to this point, not even using the carthaginians. lucky for us there are enough cultures already built in. ~:cheers:

[Martimus]

I know this comment doesn't really contribute to the mod.. and you've heard it before.. but I must say.. that this by far the most original mod that i've seen for any of the TW series.. it's stylish and creative... best of luck on completing it... :bow:

[samthesmart]

Ferocious_Imbecile - Yes sound will be important. i'd really like to hear authentic Indian/Japanese/Chinese music and some BL specific SFX. Is there anyone out there with good audio experience and time on there hands?

Hi all. This is my first post but I've been watching this thread for some time now and I must repeat: your work looks awesome hoggy! ^_^
as for the quote above, I am more then capable of creating some asian music for you. I have instruments for any occasion, and software to record with. (If I can get it to work...) Just ask and I'll record something for you to listen to and see if you like hoggy.
your humble servant, :bow:

samthesmart

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

It's been awhile since there's been any activity here; Hoggy has even taken down his excellent graphics.

Let's hope this mod hasn't been abandoned.

[blindfaithnogod]

it definitly has not been. were just finishing up the japanese factions as we speak. there is just not alot to show as of right now.

[hoggy]

Yep, really no need to worry. I'm going through polishing the japanese faction and doing Zensen clan texture variations of all the units, Blindfaith is doing unit cards and a whole bunch of other stuff and Sykotic has nearly finished all the portraits amongst other things. The old screenies are down because when i started i had been using my old Middle Earth total war hosting for the screens but when their site went down I broke the links so I wouldn't draw their bandwidth. Should have more screens after this period of reorganisation but unfortunately there's loads of work to do on the mod that doesn't result in screenshots.

[shifty157]

well we really dont care what the screenshot is of. we just want more screenshots. it doesnt have to be anything new. just something small to keep up interest. as it is now i have to go back through and look at all the old screenshots from months ago to satisfy my appetite. just any random screenshot would suffice. so thats just my opinion. you dont have to wait for a new unit to post a screenshot (although new units are always the most impressive).

[Jay Tee]

Hi team,

Is there still anything you need, like names, ideas for tradable goods etc. Or do you have everything figured out already?

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

Yep, really no need to worry. I'm going through polishing the japanese faction and doing Zensen clan texture variations of all the units, Blindfaith is doing unit cards and a whole bunch of other stuff and Sykotic has nearly finished all the portraits amongst other things. The old screenies are down because when i started i had been using my old Middle Earth total war hosting for the screens but when their site went down I broke the links so I wouldn't draw their bandwidth. Should have more screens after this period of reorganisation but unfortunately there's loads of work to do on the mod that doesn't result in screenshots.


Glad to hear it. I'm really looking forward to Blue Lotus. It's going to be fantastic. CA should hire you to develop future TW games with them, Hoggy.

[blindfaithnogod]

Is there still anything you need, like names, ideas for tradable goods etc. Or do you have everything figured out already?
if you have ideas on tradable resources i'd like to hear them.
we could use names, or rather ideas for names for the governance buildings. ie governers villa etc. so if you guys have any please share.

[Khan48]

Hey man this mod looks freaken awsome and i can't wait to play it so keep up the goodwork. For the korean faction u might wanna put in this the war wagon unit from AOE 2 expansion. I don't know if it's real but it would be fun to play and could be an elephant and chariot mix. Hard to kill and crap.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/ageofempires2thece/screens.html?page=114

[Jay Tee]

if you have ideas on tradable resources i'd like to hear them.

An idea could be a tradable good that can only be found in the Demon countries and possesses magical powers, e.g. Demon Dust or something like that.

[hoggy]

khan48 - looks good. I wanted to do a large oxen chariot for the chinese but I think the constraints of chariot code are going to make it too big a job but I'll look into it some more.
Jay Tee - sounds good, perhaps ssome sortof spirit dust that alows you to recruit certain spirit unit types.

here is the latest pass on the faction logos with new monk, india, korea and mongol.:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/alllogo.jpg

[dclare4]

A page on Buddhist beliefs (demons and other creatures)

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/oinari.shtml

Cheers,
Clare

[Kageka]

Hello again!

I really like the new logos for the factions. I especially like the Karazai button. The Choson is cool too (even though it has that "primitive" feel to it).

But the Krishnapur looks some how "strange". Don't know exactly why but I get the "copy-paste"-feeling when I see it plus it dosent really follow the same style as the other buttons/logos.

[hoggy]

Just a quick progress update for Blue Lotus.
I'm currently finishing off the Chinese armies, the officers, generals etc and then I'll be moving onto a period of polishing these units and doing the texture variations for the Yuwan Clan. After that I'll start on finishing the Demon armies' remaining units, generals etc. Obviously I'll post progress along the way.
Blindfaithnogod and Sykotyk Rampage have been doing an amazing job on everything else. Between them they have sorted the character names, portraits have been sourced by Sykotyk and implemented by Blindfaith, tech trees are coming along nicely, event pics are done, music is currently in progress by Sykotyk, they are both doing some excellent job creating building pictures right now and hopefully they'll post samples soon. All of these and others are huge tasks and they've done an outstanding job on them :bow:
So we're moving along nicely. The unit building is likely to take several months yet and we've still got a lot to do but I'll be happy if, with our small part time team, we release the mod around the time of RTWs expansion pack (if there is one).

cheers - hoggy

[hardgainer]

So basically, what your trying to say is, It will be a very long time before the first version of your mod is released? I havnt even heard anything about an exapnsion, so I guess thats what your trying to hint at.

Im not much of a mod person, but the extensiveness of your mod looks quite impressive. I like how some demon units are larger than normal troops, like the orange demons, hanya? Being a fantasy mod doesnt bother me, it looks very interesting. I like the idea of trying to hold a bridge with samurai against huge hulking demons.

Im not sure how long this project has been in development, but it does look great. There appeared to have been alot of screenshots in this thread previously, is there anywhere I can see them now they have been taken down? Anyway, this mod looks really fun, keep up the top work.

[blindfaithnogod]

..................around the time of RTWs expansion pack (if there is one).

cheers - hoggy
there is always an expansion pack. ~;) even if they(CA) have not officially made it known. ~:cheers:

[hoggy]

Sykotic has been sourcing oriental art for event pics but we were unable to find one for weeping women (used for most disasters) so I've had a go at one trying to copy the style. obviously not as good as the original masters (and thank god for the undo button):

http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/EVENT.jpg

[shifty157]

Looks more than good enough to me.

If you need any other artwork try asking TomteofDoom from sengoku jidai. His stuff beyond belief.

[Lief]

Wow...Hoggy did you do that? That's amazing. ~:eek:

[fallingstar]

Reading your previous posts Hoggy you said you are in a complete stage for all units, are you doing the pictures like the one above "weeping ladies" for events, disasters, building types? :bow:

I really like that picture Hoggy, by the way what's the picture going to be used for? :dizzy2:

[Revolting Friendship]

Hoggy, you are too modest. ~;) The linework is excellent and you've captured the style better than anyone could ask for. I especially like the clothes and the patterns, and your choice of colors is also perfect. No complaints here.

I'd love to see more info-pictures of this quality.

[nic_vee]

hoggy, great work. I cant wait till its released. Keep up the good work.
You are the best. :bow: :bow:

[HunkinElvis]

I liked the characters in "Journey to West".

http://animax.ru/shots/the_monkey_king.jpg

[hoggy]

When I get a break between modelling units etc I'm going to be working on a battle scene for the BlueLotus intro screen. I thought I'd post progress here as the image develops. It can act as a kind of countdown to the release with the picture getting more developed as the mod progresses. Part 1... (apologies as out of context it's a bit hard to work out what's going on but, well that's half the fun ~:) )
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro01.jpg

[hoggy]

and some more...
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro02.jpg

[bthizle1]

I am astonished Hoggy. You are truly somebody to look up to for all people that wanto get into modding. I remember back in the day when I started, it always helped to have people like you to try and get as good as, for inspiration. I just wanted to say great work, and how amazed I am that you have stayed with this with the same passion now as you had on day 1.

[King Clas]

Now that an expansion has been announced for Rome what will you do with it? Simply use its new features to spice upp the old campaign and then add a second campaign set later (or earlier) in your storyline?

Also for animalhandlers instead of them having short swords for closecombat weapons perhaps wips would be a nice thing, they are animalhandlers after all :P

[shifty157]

whips would require a new skeleton and animation. alot of work for something so small. that and id rather have a sword than a whip in a melee any day.

[Gubook Janggoon]

Are ya'll still working on the Korean faction? Ya'll seem a bit lost on them and I'd be happy to help.

[hoggy]

Hello everyone, I just want to make a quick apology for moving posts around. I'm trying to keep the forum tidy and manageable and as easy to navigate as possible. Rather than starting a new thread for every post, if general questions, suggestions etc can go in the General thread that would help. If they trigger a big debate we can make a new thread for the topic. Army list suggestions or units strength discussions etc can go in the Armylist thread and so on. So if I move your post please don't feel offended. Cheers :bow:

[nic_vee]

Great going guys
Can i ask when you would be releasing a test.
i cant wait
~:cheers:

[hoggy]

We should have a release some time after the expansion from CA.

here is some more of the intro pic:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro03.jpg

[hoggy]

also had another go at the Krishnapur logo.. still not sure..
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/krishlognew.jpg

[DragoonXXIV]

Hmm, they're both pretty good, but personally i perfer the newer one. But that's just me.

By the way, great job with the splash/loading pic. so far.

[blindfaithnogod]

yeah i think i like the new one better.

[Androo]

Ok, my first post in this forum so I will begin with the important stuff: like just about everybody else I have been absolutely stunned with what you guys (the mod team) have already accomplished. My jaw is getting a little sore from dropping every time I look at one of your screenies, but it is worth it... Way, way, way beyond anything I could do.

A thought about this faction symbol... I wonder if it might be a little too literal, perhaps even slightly visually redundant if it appears on the unit banners, ie in a battle we see a unit of infantry with a banner depicting an elephant and howdah standing beside a real elephant and howdah. Apparently Indian art makes frequent use of icons, so an alternative could be a simple tusk. Or (my favourite) an elephant's footprint. I think that one has a nice degree of menace to it, especially since I recall reading that it was customary following battle for one Indian king or another to neatly arrange his captives in prostrate rows and then have an elephant stand on their heads, one by one... ~:eek:
Or perhaps, if you wanted something a little more obscure, a depiction of a deer- apparently the belief is that Krishna (I assume Krishnapur is named for him) was killed by a hunter who mistook him for one.
Just some thoughts- I would have no problem if the symbol stays as it is.
Cheers all! ~:cheers:

[Androo]

Or a cobra.
Or a snarling tiger.
I know "ideas" are the easy part, actually doing the graphics the hard part... :embarassed:
Please ignore completely if I know not what I suggest...
Andrew

[Captain-Tiguris]

Yeah, a golden cobra on a purple background.

I would like that, suits how they want to be seen as agressive.

[Kageka]

I really like the new one, much better than the one before. It follows the might and style of the faction.

A Cobra sounds cool but I don't see any reason to have it as the symbol for the faction. I mean there are no cobra-influenced troops/units or heraldry reminding of cobras/snakes.

An elephant with a wartower makes more sense. Atleast I think so.

[Androo]

Glad you liked the cobra idea Captain-Tiguris; I think it would look pretty striking in those colours too. Yikes- pun not intended. :embarassed:
Yeah, I know what you mean Kageka, a war elephant does make perfect sense (and I too like the second one better). It's just that if I were facing them across a battlefield and I saw the elephant on their banners it wouldn't make much of an impression- 'Yeah, I know you've got elephants'. Of course oftentimes countries/kingdoms choose symbols which are allusive of their battle-spirit or ideals or deities, symbols which tell their enemies something they didn't know about them and which inspire their own troops. I don't know, but I'm guessing the cobra and tiger were the most respected / feared creatures native to India, they certainly are centuries later in "The Jungle Book". And both those animals had a profound effect on martial arts, to the east of India, anyway. I don't think it is that great a stretch to imagine the study of those animals affecting the way an Indian general might deploy and use his troops e.g. the stealth and ambush of the tiger, the lightning fast strike of the cobra. As for a precedent in heraldry, just about every native animal you can imagine, from the tortoise to the crane, is used in Jain iconography* and heraldry is basically just military iconography. If a medieaval English army could have a lion on its banners I think an Indian army could pretty reasonably use a t. or c.! ~;)
Anyhow, not a big deal, I just enjoy these esoteric discussions. Oliphant is still kule.
*Nope, not claiming any authority, learning as I go on this one :book: , happy to be corrected by someone who knows better.

[Kageka]

Well you're right, there is no reason not to have a cobra or tiger as the symbol for the Krishnapur.

What it comes down to in the end is how the Krishnapur army wants to profile them self.

A behemot elephant with a war tower gives the army the feel of majestic might, titan strength and boundless toughness. A stomping steamroller that just advances and never crumble.

A serpent-like cobra ready to snap (or spit) at its foe gives the army the impression to be unpredictable, aggressive, venomous, deadly and lightning fast. A cold blooded assassin that always find a way to sting and kill the enemy.

A snarling monstrous tiger with terrifying claws would give the army a mixed impression of the elephant and the cobra. A majestic warrior hunter/killer that are lightning fast and incredibly strong, deadly and tough. But even though tigers are fast, they are not as fast as cobras, and even though tigers are strong, they are not as strong as the elephants.


Atleast thats how I see it, but in the end it is Hoggy & crew who decides. I like the elephant symbol, it gives the Krishnapur a distinct look and profile. A cobra as their symbol would give the faction a malicious and slightly evil touch. The tiger-idea sounds nice and could work pretty well.

[Captain-Tiguris]

Hey, whatever is best!

Just having an elephant gives the rightful impression that they have elephants. And I doubt even the brave would like to face a presumably fast enemy with elephants too.

[Androo]

Hmmm, Kageka, you mention something I hadn't given enough thought to: the malicious connotation of the cobra. I still think it could be cool, but you're right, a faction might not neccessarily want to be associated with that symbol.
Yes, it will definitely be the mod team who will decide; after all, it is their creation. Based on everything I have seen so far, I am sure the faction symbol for Krishnapur, will look very, very good- in fact the second elephant design is already there, I think.

Yeah, Captain-Tiguris I am amazingly courageous on virtual battlefields ~;) , but even I don't like facing pachyderms. If my enemy has 'em, I almost always lose, and there isn't much left of my men to bury...

[hoggy]

a bit more of the intro image developing:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro04.jpg

[The Panda Centurion]

It excels beyond anything i've ever seen, almost. ~;) Absolutely superb all the same.

[Snarkfarfar]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but i wonder if the battles in Blue Lotus will be slowed down to a reasonable speed like in RTR and most other major mods, so that strategy determins the outcome of a battle, and not how fast you can move around and click. I really really hope so, and so far nothing from the BL team has ever been dissapointing, let's keep that up :P

[blindfaithnogod]

well, right now we're concentrating on other areas of the game. we have had a small discussion about it. i think we will likly do something about the battle speeds. nothing is concrete as of right now.....

[hoggy]

Alot will depend on how the expansion affects gameplay as we intend to be integrated into the expansion if possible.

On a seperate issue I've just done a tally of the units, so far 88 are built with 25 to go. On top of that are a bunch of reskins for mercenary units and rebels. We'll probably start on buildings and strategic map models once the main factions are done and then do the odd unit inbetween to keep it fresh. After that there's environments and animation and a bunch of other tasks. Blindfaith and Sykotic are both tackling the 2D art and Blindfaith is dealing with all the text files, campmap unit integration etc. Sykotic is also dealing with the sound effects and music for the mod. We should hopefully have a fair amount done ready for the expansion pack and then the work of getting a playable demo will begin. We'll keep posting here to keep you all up to date, many thanks to everyone for your continuing support :bow:

[hoggy]

Gubook Jangoon (sp?) suggested a logo change for the Koreans and I agree. Here is the updated logo using the symbol from the korean war drum:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Koreanew.jpg

[Gubook Janggoon]

Gubook Jangoon (sp?) suggested a logo change for the Koreans and I agree. Here is the updated logo using the symbol from the korean war drum:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Koreanew.jpg

Haha, that's much better!

[Androo]

Yes, much better, very nice indeed!

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

a bit more of the intro image developing:
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro04.jpg

iIf all your 2D graphics for the intro and event announcements are of this quality the game will be a joy to play on this account alone. Very nice choice of artwork. I'd love the game to be a kind of magical introduction to the cultures of the orient, the music, the art, the costumes.

[hoggy]

some more intro image...
http://www.awrate.com/chrishogg/images/Intro06.jpg