STW mod

[barocca]

my two cents

with archers i think they are underpowered somewhat in mellee

once the yarisam formation gets broken up into mellee the swords of the archers are more usefull at close quarters than the yari

(try hitting someone with a long stick while they try and hit you with a short stick)
the sword has a longer balde length too
(in a similar vein naginata are more dangerous than yari because of the longer blade)

However, historically,
the vast majority of wounds were caused by spears (Yari's)
(something in excess of 60% - i have the figure 68% rattling around my brain)
with arrows and bullets about equal and swords a distant last
Naginata's were not mentioned, so I can only assume they were included in the Spear category


I would have given Yari a sword as a secondary weapon, but then you get into difficulty with an engaged unit of Yari sams attacking cav with swords in mellee - which would not look right, so I saw no real purpose to it.

[Puzz3D]

I guess its a question of taste to some degree, but in original STW a YS would usually see off 1 unit of SA.
A YS will beat an SA in Samurai Wars just as it did in STW. The stats of those units are exactly the same as they were in STW. When I said an SA will beat a YS, I was talking about an SA with +1w and +1a against a YS with no upgrades.



I don't think upgrades had such a drastic effect in original STW. Personally I think units should be able to be upgraded but not to the extent here. Which suggests maybe all units base should be stronger so upgrades are relatively weaker.
Sorry, but this isn't true. Upgrades have exactly the same effect in Samurai Wars as they did in STW. I did extensive tests in Samurai Wars and original STW to make sure that combat results were the same in both games. Almost all the units have the same stats that they had in original STW. The cavalry units are not the same because the charge bonus was broken in original STW so stats had to be changed in Samurai Wars to get similar combat resullts as STW. Also, some Samurai Wars units have no equivalent in original STW.

Raising the base combat stats won't make upgrades relatively weaker because the effect is exponential. Each +1 combat point increases a unit's combat strength by 20% of it's current value.
Probability to kill = 1.9% * 1.2 ** (att - def + bonus)



So for example 1 unit Ashigaru upraded +3w and +3 a should just match vanilla YS.
If I did that then Samurai Wars wouldn't be the same as STW. A YA is -1/-1 (att/def) with -4 morale, and a YS is 0/2 with 2 morale. These are the same values the units had in original STW. If you upgrade the YA to +3w and +3a, then it will be a 2/2 which is 2 combat points stronger than a YS.



SA on the other hand are archers, and should not be able to compete with YS regardless in open combat. They need protection by infantry period.
This is not the way SA were in original STW. They have swords and are samurai. They have fighting ability, and they could beat the YS in the STW demo by using the advantage of high ground. SA has 0/0 (att/def) with 0 morale and YS has 0/2 with 2 morale. The SA is 2 combat points weaker than the YS, and one honor upgrade or +1w and +1a makes it equal to a YS in melee.

I agree that the effect of upgrades is too strong. Several players have been telling CA this for the last 5 years. We are stuck with it the way it is. This is why in Samurai Wars MP we made the base price of all units 2x the original STW prices so that upgrades are not worth what they cost.



Another question regards the sound, I wonder if its a breach of the game license to take the sound from STW , change the file names to MTW equivalents and release it as an addon for the mod? Having the stw sound adds a lot to the mod I think.
It isn't because we are not distributing the sound files. You have to have either STW or STW/MI to get the sounds into MTW/VI.

[Puzz3D]

my two cents

with archers i think they are underpowered somewhat in mellee

once the yarisam formation gets broken up into mellee the swords of the archers are more usefull at close quarters than the yari

I would have given Yari a sword as a secondary weapon, but then you get into difficulty with an engaged unit of Yari sams attacking cav with swords in mellee - which would not look right, so I saw no real purpose to it.
What's to say the YS aren't actually using their sword when in close combat with infantry?

In Samurai Wars MP, we gave SA a -1/-1 anti-cav bonus because they were actually too good in melee vs cav. This was a fine tuning of the unit to slightly increase the RPS without weakening the SA relative to other infantry based on MP battle feedback , but I haven't made that adjustment to the SA in SP.

[Razor1952]

Thanks for the replies.
@ Barocca
Interesting about the SA Barocca, I've never considered that. I was more thinking about strategy play than historical accuracy.
@ Puzz

I of course bow to your superior experience in these matters, I guess the upggrade effect is what I'm seeing as distorting things, this effect seems magnified as all factions have the same units in STW mod, whereas in vanilla MTW:VI battles are fought against different units from different factions.( that is the upgrade thing effect is largely "hidden" from the player because of the different units)
BTW I was playing huge unit size so that might have something to do with it as well.

As for the sound I was thinking of releasing the sounds for the STW mod taken and altered from STW:WI, as you can see I'm a fan of this mod.( of course with permission if given)

What about more expensive unit making buildings?

[barocca]

I found a "new" source of portraits - some very old Shogun Promotional material (like pre-release stuff) that I had forgotten i had! AND some beta release promotional material that i never even knew I had!!
(downloaded it and promptly forgot it - must have been around the release date for game, so i was kinda busy:-)

that gave me about 80 new portraits, 60 odd geisha (they had different geisha in pre-release and different geisha again in beta version) and about 20 Ashigaru generals

I also managed to find a way to take valid screencaptures during the in game anims that are not mpegs
So i have about 100 decent emissary shots - i could recolour their cloaks and easily make that 400, but i see no point - we dont need 400 emissary portraits,
i suppose some people may get uptight about being imagawa and having a hojo portrait for emissary,
but with 20 factions i dont really want to have to make recoloured duplicates for each faction (each factions could have it's own portraits!)
and portraits are so small it is not blindingly obvious - except to fanatics

what i would do, if i had the time to recolour them, is use the standard current emissary portraits as a base for each faction, then recolour a selection (say 20) of the new ones and put those 20 into each faction

that way i could re-use the new ones and every faction would have some different emissaries - far too time consuming for me to do at the moment
plus it would add about 15 MB to the download for each faction (making an extra 300MB before compression)

Something for a future edition eh?

(unless we have a volunteeer in the audience who would want to take these pics and recolour about 20 of them to 20 "unique" colour sets)
you could (theoretically) use the 20 you like best and make a set of them for each faction)
or you could just go - this 20 go to factions 1,2,3 and 4, (and make dupes, recolouring them as per each faction)
next 20 go to factions 5,6,7, and 8 etc etc

(there are around 20 factions)

Cheers,
B.

[R'as al Ghul]

Just a quick update of things to come:
Campaign Map:
http://img167.echo.cx/img167/5328/000001791io.jpg
Battle Screen:
http://img167.echo.cx/img167/2060/000001804mt.jpg
Multiplayer Lobby:
http://img167.echo.cx/img167/8760/000001857rr.jpg

:bow:

R'as

[Orda Khan]

The first thing that has to go is the European buildings. I am afraid that nothing can be done with MTW textures in order to recreate those splendid maps of STW

.....Orda

[barocca]

The first thing that has to go is the European buildings. I am afraid that nothing can be done with MTW textures in order to recreate those splendid maps of STW

.....Orda

sadly very true
Shogun Textures can be imported (a limited number of them anyway-255 tiles max per folder)
But the actual tile size is smaller than MTW (STW=128x128 - - MTW=256x256)
so they look out of place and fuzzy in MTW

and all my attempts to enlarge the tiles and maintain feel, clarity and edge matching have failed

the original Shogun tiles were encrypted/encoded,
HOWEVER
they can be downloaded in MTW compatible image format from the Medieval Stats/Mods page at the org's 3D/UGO downloads server
(but they are still 128x128 - unedited)

IF anyone wants to have a play with them that is...

B.

[Duke John]

You should need to chat with Icare from the ME:TW team. He actually imported S:TW buildings into M:TW. I guess it is the same format and the only modding part was editing some text files.

[barocca]

there is an ancient relic of mine somewhere in the downloads where i imported Shog Buildings (circa november 2003),

i also managed to make stand alone towers for medieval

reskinned the medieval bridge to a neat wood look

fixed model "sink", where a house is half underground


unfortunately model pack work is one of the things that can cause desyncs

both parties need the same model pack or everything falls apart



the tiles are soemthing else,
shogun tiles are a different size (and i think they are a different number of colours too)

we did make attempts to import some of the shogun tiles that have no close matches in the medieval tileset,
but because of the differences we could not get them to "look good" and mesh nicely with existing tiles


B.

[Orda Khan]

Would be very nice if somebody could reproduce the STW texture tiles, in STW/VI I really miss the paddi fields and the scrub textures, but it is 'live withable'. The buildings are a must though

......Orda

[cegorach]

and the MONGOLS TOO!!!

Barocca are you going to use BIFs from Shogun Mongol Invasion and add them to the new release or you will use the present Mongols - honestly they are a little 'too golden' ~;)

[barocca]

in this thread alone we have, like, 5 discussions going,
then we have another thread with 2 ongoing discussions in that,
so i have asked for a dedicated forum for the shogun mod,
(if i get said forum it will be called "Samurai")


there will be one campaign each that will be as close to each of the original campaigns as i can

i am also interested in making a good set of alternate/additional campaigns



Mongols
i would like all parties interested in the mongols to have a good think about troop mixes

i am indeed going to import the STW-WEMI mongol bifs
but i would like an alternate horde available and am most interested in what units from medieval can be added to the WEMI horde without unbalancing the game overly much
Chinese units? Korean Units? Mongol Units? - which bifs from medieval will "fit" the theme?


We can speculate here in this thread for the moment
i will do my best to split this into seperate threads in the Samurai Forum (assuming we get one)

[Puzz3D]

I think a previous discussion between Orda and I on Mongol units got this far:

Yuan Imperial Cav..... ( MTW Golden Horde HC )
Mongol Heavy Cav.... ( STW/MI MHC )
Yuan Imperial HA ..... ( MTW Golden Horde HA )
Mongol HA............... ( STW/MI MLC )
Mongol archers ........ ( MTW Golden Horde Infantry )
Spearman................ ( MTW Chinese Infantry)
Guardsman............... ( STW/MI Korean Guardsmen )
Specialty unit........... ( STW/MI Thunder Bombers )

[Troy Lawton]

Gents

After reading through all the threads I can't see anyting about the drama I'm having with my install of STW. After completing every building I still couldn't train any gunpowder units. They appear in the custom battle screen. I have the MTW/VI 2.01 copied over. I'm sorry to bother you blokes with this trivial matter but I do enjoy this mod ( along with NTW ) and are keen to see gunsmoke!!! Can anyone please help and if it is in a thread and I've missed it I will apologise in advance.

Cheers
Troy

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi,

the first Gunpowder units become available after
1543. You can build the required buildings prior
to that, though.
Might this be your problem? Aren't you far enough in the game?
Otherwise your install maybe corrupted.

~:cheers:

R'as

[barocca]

WE HAVE OUR OWN DEDICATED FORUM (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=105)
I am going to leave these threads in place,
but we now have a dedicated forum and the absolute latest data will be in the Samurai forum (in the Hosted Mods section of the Org)


Please check the Samurai forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=105) for topics you want to contribute to,

the Mongol Units discussion is started there already

any other things you want to add or recommend please feel free to start threads about those topics

Cheers,
B.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Alright, Tempiic talked me into downloading yet another mod...

So if anyone feel like killing me like really fast while I figure why right click just makes me dizzy, feel free!

Louis,

[t1master]

hiya louis! :balloon2:

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Hello UglyGoat :)

As predicted....


I was humbled :embarassed: :laugh4:


Thanks for the game Yuuki, Tempiic and Tosa, it was a nice gaming session.

Louis

[barocca]

Would be very nice if somebody could reproduce the STW texture tiles, in STW/VI I really miss the paddi fields and the scrub textures, but it is 'live withable'. The buildings are a must though

......Orda

BOTH of these changes will be in the next release

check the latest news in the Samurai Forum itself (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=105)
:bow:
B.