Hard-Coded Limits

[Simetrical]

(This thread is duplicated here (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28608). The threads will be maintained in duplicate, with all changes in one being made to the other as well.)

This thread is devoted to discovering the hard-coded limits for various moddable text-file things. For instance, the game doesn't accept unit sizes of greater than 60, or an HP value of more than 15, or more than 500 units. This information is critical to would-be modders who may want to, for instance, double all units' HP—this would lead to elephants being completely screwed over, since their HP would be effectively half of the entered value.

The format of the entries will be as follows:

Stat: Min [number], max [number]. [How we know the min limit], [how we know the max limit].

If you have a stat to contribute, or have a better or more specific source for the limit than is stated, please post! For instance, I can't remember where I saw any of the dev statements that I cite, or where someone posted evidence for any other limits. Specific cites help!

If you plan to do testing, obviously some things are more important than others. Things like attack, charge, and range values are critical, whereas the max rank spacing is pretty unimportant. Still, everything helps to make this a better document.

descr_model_battle.txt
Overall model number: Min ?, max 255. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=684797#post684797).

descr_rebel_factions.txt
Units per event: Min 1?, max 20 for non-regional events at least. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1012677#post1012677). Extras cause error message with -show_err but possibly no other ill effects.

descr_sm_factions.txt
Faction limit: Min ?, max 21. Experimentation. Note that the maximum must include, for unexpanded RTW, one rebel faction, four Roman factions (including a Senate and the Roman alliance), six barbarian factions, four Greek factions, three Eastern factions, two Carthaginian factions, and an Egyptian faction, as far as faction-culture correspondence goes. In BI the culture restrictions and Roman alliance/Senate limitations are lifted, but there still must presumably be a rebel faction. Fewer factions than 21 are possible.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt
ExcludedAncillaries: Min 0, max 3. Default usage, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=759894#post759894). Extras cause CTD.
Effects: Min 0, max 8. Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=875833#post875833). Extras make it impossible to gain ancillary through a trigger and cause erratic effects if an existing ancillary is transferred.

export_descr_buildings.txt
Hidden resources: Min 1?, max 63 or 64 (not sure which). Extras cause a CTD, not including rome causes a CTD (I think), not including italy prevents Marian reforms (I think). Experimentation, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=705746#post705746). But see here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=52650) for a way to overcome the limitation.
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=732292&postcount=67). Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=973334#post973334). Extras CTD.
Upgrades per building level: Min 0, max 8. Default usage, logic based on previous. Levels can only be upgraded to levels listed after them on the "levels" line.
Units recruitable in a given city, not counting agents: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=899094#post899094). Extras CTD.

export_descr_character_trait.txt
Levels per trait: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=771103#post771103).
Points required for a threshold: Min 1, max ≥ 600. Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=759894#post759894).
Points assignable per trigger: Min 0, max ≥ 100. Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=760095#post760095).
Antitraits: Min 0, max 10 (1.2)/20? (1.6). Default usage, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=944975#post944975)/experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1011251#post1011251).

export_descr_unit.txt
Overall unit number: Min ?, max 500. JeromeGrasdyke (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=685566#post685566). Extras CTD?
Units per faction: Min ?, max 100. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=722558#post722558). Extras don't appear for custom battles, but otherwise function normally.
Units buildable per city: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46768). Extras CTD.
Men per non-general unit: Min 6, max 60. Experimentation. Extras CTD?
Men per general unit: Min ?, max 31. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=965066#post965066). Extras ignored, even if they come from another source (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=786165#post786165) (Influence, personal security, or faction leader/heir status).
Extras per unit: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=685552&postcount=6).
Collision mass: Min ?, max ≥ 100. Default usage.
Number of officers: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Number of mount effects: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Mount bonus: ?
Number of attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Number of formations: Min 1, max 2. Text file description.
HP: Min ?, max 15. Dev. Extra considered 15.
Attack factor: Min 1 (missile), max 63. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=685552&postcount=6), user interface (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=705709&postcount=37). Zero results in no missile attack. Extra considered 63.
Charge bonus: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=705709&postcount=37). Extra considered 63.
Missile range: Min 20 (at least for javelins), max special. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=708978&postcount=47), experimentation. Every projectile has an effective maximum range as well, indirectly determined by the velocity and angle ranges specified in descr_projectile_new.txt; increasing this file's range sufficiently will require you to increase the velocity and/or angle range in that file for the change to work properly. Later versions of RTW give an error message if the velocity doesn't allow the stated range. More range than is possible will be effectively reduced to the maximum possible for the velocity.
Missile ammo: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=691925&postcount=24) (and guess). Note that ammunition is determined per man, not per unit, and it apparently counts even men who don't actually use the ammo, such as drivers of chariots (experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=977833#post977833)). Ammunition use is tracked per unit (I'm pretty sure), not per man, so if only half of your unit is firing at their target, they'll effectively have twice the ammo.
Undocumented kill rate variable: ?
Number of weapon attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Armor factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=705709&postcount=37). Extra considered 63.
Defensive skill factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=705709&postcount=37). Extra considered 63.
Shield factor: Min 0, max 31. Default usage, user interface (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=705709&postcount=37). Extra considered 31.
Stat_heat: ?
Terrain modifiers: ?
Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.
Charge distance: ?
Fire delay: ?
Turns to build: Min 0, max 244. Experimentation, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=758086#post758086). Extra ignored.

map_regions.txt
Resources per province: Min 0?, max 9? Assumption, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=968428#post968428). Extras ignored?

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200. Experimentation.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. JeromeGrasdyke (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=685612&postcount=11). Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).

Models
Number of faces/polys: Min ?, max 20,000 (for campaign-map models).

[khelvan]

There is a limit of 245 models - all entries in descr_model_battle.txt count toward this limit. So that is unit models, officers, mounts, animals, et al.

[Orb]

Isn't the minimum hp value 1- It would be pointless to have anything lower

[khelvan]

We tested the limit for models, it is actually 255, not 245.

[Simetrical]

Okay, thanks!

-Simetrical

[Red Harvest]

Missile attack minimum = 1 (at 0 the unit is displayed as out of ammo when in batlle--or at least it was in 1.1, so you had no missile attack.) Also, missile attack is converted to integers. If you enter 1.5 you get a 1. 0.5 = 0. -1 = 0. I determined these from play testing.

Minimum number of men = 6, but mounts can be lower for elephants at least. This can be used to reduce the size of elephant units. (For forest_elephants the number of crew must be double the number of elephants to go smaller...else RTW adds extra elephants when you test them on the field. e.g. 6,4 is the same as 6,6; but 8,4 gives reduced number of elephants by 1/3 and an extra crewman on each. Haven't tried 6,2 or 6,1 but the Oliphants work with only 2.)

Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.

[eadingas]

Minimum number of dogs and pigs is 2 per handler.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The unit limit was raised it in the 1.2 patch to 500, but I'm not sure about the models limit... it may have been kept in order to keep the tex memory requirements under control.

[eadingas]

What about number of provinces?

[khelvan]

Jerome, any chance we can persuade you to open up that model limit as well? If we want to overload the memory, to let us make our own mistakes? ~:)

On the unit limit being raised - beautiful!

Edit: And what eadingas said - we've hit a wall at 199. It would be great if we could move past that :)

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The other limits (200 provinces, 255 unit models, 20 landmasses) have been left in place, and it's unlikely that there will be another patch which will change those. Oh well...

[eadingas]

Aargh...Oh, CA, why do you mock us so! :( (there was a limit of 20 landmasses? good to know)

[khelvan]

This isn't the sort of thing you would release an, ahh, "unofficial" patch to address, is it? ~:)

[eadingas]

Yeah... how about a 'for fans only' patch? Or even, if you don't want to get extra work, let one of our coders do it :)

[khelvan]

Or just give us permission to mod RTW.exe so we can increase the limits ourselves? ~D

[BassV2]

minamum is over 5, i tried it lolz

[Simetrical]

I can see why Jerome doesn't show up here that often, since he instantly gets bombarded with requests every time he shows his face. Thanks for raising the unit limit, and for telling us about it! Europa Barbarorum will be happy about that, I suspect.

Anyway, all submissions have been added. I don't know what file to list province number and region number under, though.

-Simetrical

[Dead Moroz]

What is "landmass"?

[Simetrical]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=landmass

Basically, a landmass is an unbroken piece of land—an island or a continent. Presumably the twenty-landmass limit is to simplify pathfinding.

-Simetrical

[eadingas]

Does that mean there can be only 20 accessible islands??
(I pity those who'd want to do an Earthsea mod...)

[massamuusi]

Thank you so much for the list! Words are not enough to describe what it means to people who think there's this one or two things they just can't live with in the game, and need to change them. Now we can see if it can be done without having to format the drive, if we exaggarate a little ^^

[khelvan]

Per CA, the number of factions is limited to 21 (20, not counting the senate).

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43291

[Simetrical]

The number of factions, their cultures, and the intra-Roman relationships are all entirely unmoddable. I intended this to be a list of hard-coded limits on things we can mod, not a list of things we can't mod. If I wanted to do that, I'd have to add thirty bajillion things, from bribery costs to testudo formations. That's a worthy project as well, but a different one.

-Simetrical

[Red Harvest]

Another limit for the list: Javelin ammo cannot be less than 2 -- trying to use 1 exits to the desktop every time. I did this once a few weeks back, and again tonight with different units. Perhaps it could be zero for out of ammo (as with archers)...I didn't try that...but anyway: 2 works, 1 exits during loading. I have not tested pila yet, but I expect the same.

[Lord Hal]

Quote Jerome Grasdyke
Is it possible to create a new faction/rename an existing one, and if so how?

It is possible, but it will be a lot of work. There are many things which go into the look of a coherent faction: names lists, banners, tech tree entries and their descriptions, unit lists, correctly-coloured unit models, and so on. Covering all of this in detail is beyond the scope of a simple question, but all the conversions from a faction tag into the code's internal identifiers run through the same code, and so if you wanted to change the Julian Romans into something else, you could do a search for 'romans_julii' and be reasonably certain that you've caught all instances where the faction is directly referred to. You'll see these faction tags all over the text files, so I won't list them here. Unfortunately, there may be places where it is implicit; none come to mind, but any sequences of numbers or properties in sets of 21 would be suspicious. There will be some trial-and-error involved...

So factions should actually be moddable.

[eadingas]

They are moddable, but they can't be added.

[Lord Hal]

@eadingas

I saw the appropriate - new - thread immediately after I posted this quote.

Thanks ~:)

[Simetrical]

Another limit for the list: Javelin ammo cannot be less than 2 -- trying to use 1 exits to the desktop every time.Thanks. I'm guessing this is for all missile weapons—let me know if you can confirm.

-Simetrical

[Nero]

I'd like to know
Is there a limit to the number of temples in a city that is modable?
Or is this hardcoded too. :dizzy2:

I'm trying to make multiple temples at once in one city available, but until now I was unsuccessful.
If there is a hard-coded limit, I think I could just quit my project. ~:confused:

[eadingas]

You can only have one building named 'temple' in the engine.
However you can have multiple buildings which are called 'temple' in game description, but in engine they must all be called something else - 'houseofworship', whatever you like. Just not 'temple_'
Other hardcoded buildings include everything with hinterland_, ports, and core buildings - if you want to have a couple of them, you must use different names (and of course they won't behave in the same way as the hardcoded ones, this is why they're hardcoded :)

[Nero]

I've now tried adding temples with Hadrian and by hand. Both times I get a CTD before the intro movie starts. Does the game read sizes of files before it starts or something like that?
(When I delete the added building, the game works again)

[eadingas]

If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.

[Nero]

nah i've tried it but i don't get a message.
Just a standard winxp message that the program has crashed and I can send a report to microsoft.

[eadingas]

hmm check the file lengths of edited and old files. If they are very different (more than just a number of characters you wrote), then you have saved it in a different encoding. RTW is very sensitive to that. Also, I assume you've properly edited the enum and text/export_building.txt files? Remember to add a 'xxx_name' section to these files.
But these bugs should be caught by -show_err... and there really is nothing in the engine that could prevent you from having multiple buildings called 'temple' in game, as long as they have all unique names in the code...

[Nero]

Thanks!!!

I've forgotten to make the enums and export_buildings.txt fit the export_descr_buildings.txt
Now I can work on my mod ~:) ~:) ~:)
The -show_err thingy didn't show a thing, except something about Locus Herulae, but that is RTR based.

[eadingas]

The -show_err only shows first bug it encounters, so if there was something else wrong in the files, you won't get the message. It is recommended to fix all the bugs as you move along, otherwise you won't get the necessary info :)

[Red Harvest]

Max limits for:

Primary attack = 63
Secondary attack = 63
Primary Charge bonus = 63
Secondary Charge bonus = Unknown, but most likely, 63.

Armour = 63
Def. Skill = 63
Shield = 31

These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle. The files load fine with higher values (I didn't try exceeding 99) but the values actually received in game are lower, topping out at 63 for all but the shield, which has 1/2 the ceiling. Most likely the game sees a valid range of 0 through 63 = 64 discrete chunks. For shields it is 0 through 31 for 32 discrete chunks.

I also retested missile ammo with show error set. 1 is indeed below the minimum value of 2 as stated in the error message box (I had guessed as much before.) Zero worked, but resulted in the unit actually not having a missile weapon. I have not established max ammo. 99 was a valid entry, but I couldn't tell if it actually yielded 99 rounds, or perhaps a lesser number. It was clearly a butt load of ammo when I tested it with pila...

[Epistolary Richard]

64 is also the upper limit for hidden resources. Is there some significance to this number?

[Simetrical]

Yes. It's equal to six bits. This would be the equivalent of, say, the IRS only putting eight boxes in a form where you list your income, so anyone making more than $999,999.99 wouldn't be able to use the form correctly. The game allots six bits for remembering attack, so anything over 111111 (or 63 in decimal) is ignored. The most common values are 255/256 (eight bits) and 65,535/65,536 (sixteen bits), because those divide evenly into bytes (one byte = eight bits).

(Side note: some programs loop values instead of capping them, so that a value of 64 would translate to 1000000, which would be truncated to six bits—000000. Needless to say, not a good design feature. This was really annoying in Wizardry 8, where my uber-cleric with good magic resistance suddenly got pummeled by enemy spells when I cast a shielding spell, which raised his magic defense over 255.)

These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle.So it's not for sure—the unit card could be truncating it while the game doesn't. Still, good enough.

Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?

-Simetrical

[Red Harvest]

Simetrical,

I'm sure. I've tried falxmen with 63 attack and 63 armour vs. other falxmen with 99 attack, 99 armour. It is even. I then tried 43 attack and 43 armour vs. 63 attack and 63 armour. The 63 side won easily, suffering no losses.

I was reasonably sure of this already, because the combat bar indicated even with 63 vs. 99. 63 vs. 43 showed an appropriate ratio.

In addition, when viewing the stats during unit selection (pre-battle) the totals are correct.

[lt1956]

Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

Lt

[Epistolary Richard]

Aha! There is method to the madness. :mad:

If this upper-limit is carried across to other unit stats, it'll help when it comes to those that are harder to test for (such as unit mass).



Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?


CTD on start-up. Make testing a lot quicker. ~D

[Epistolary Richard]

Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.

Where is the mass for the oliphant listed? Export_descr_unit only lists the riders' mass...

Edit: descr_mount.txt, ta muchly RH.

[The Stranger]

If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.

i've never got a reason for a CTD after some modding

[The Stranger]

Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

Lt

do to much and your morale is negative just as with money modding.

[Simetrical]

Nope. Apparently stats don't wrap in RTW (unlike, as you correctly note, money).

-Simetrical

[pwijnands]

The minimum range for javelins is 20, anything lower will crash the game.

[we51ey2]

is there a limit on the amount of buildings aloud

[Laridus Konivaich]

I have been working on a new campaing map which stretches from Western Turkey to Southern Italy, and I have not seen anything which indicates a 20 landmass limit. There are four major landmasses: Italy, Sicily, Greece, Turkey; and about fifty acessable islands in the Aegean and I have had no problems with loading/playing the game. I have not, however, tested the map for AI strategy yet, since it is not finished.

~Laridus Konivaich

[stichmaster1]

maybe the 20 landmass limit means 20 landmasses WITH CITIES, just an idea

[eadingas]

IIRC, the 20 landmass limit is not of the 'crashing' types, just like 50 pixel distance limit between cities. It can screw the AI, though. We've noticed that AI on our map has some trouble with landing on islands, and we're wondering if that's not the reason...

[Epistolary Richard]

Joyfully pointless nugget of information here. No matter how many units you allocate to a faction in export_desc_unit, the 'Choose Your Army' display before custom battles will only display the first 100. The others are still there (the computer can pick them) but they won't display.

I will make a sportsman's bet that this is the most worthless limit to be discovered thus far!
:medievalcheers:

[Tux]

I've found another limit during some work on the campaign map models, the limit is 20000 faces per model on the campagin map, if it has more the game will ctd. This might be usefull for some who may wanna work on the campagin map models to change them.

[Simetrical]

By faces, do you mean polygons (in the computer graphics sense)?

-Simetrical

[Tux]

No i mean faces, every type of triangles.

[Simetrical]

In math, you call them faces. In computer graphics design, you call them polygons, or polys for short (and there they're represented as triangles, generally). A 200,000-poly model is what, in mathematics, would be classified as a polyhedron with 200,000 faces (all triangular).

-Simetrical

[Tux]

No you call them faces, go a little in max and see for yourself, they are formated by 3 point wich for a face, this is how i work in max and how it is talked.
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/4218/12xf1.jpg
So if i have a plane wich is formed by 4 coplanar points it will have 2 faces and not 1 poly, but if you wish to call them polys.

[Simetrical]

Well, okay. Whichever.

-Simetrical

[Nero]

I've probably found a limit to the number of buildings in export_descr_buildings.txt

It is somewhere around 272 - then I got CTDs when trying to open the buildings menu in the game.

Could anyone verify this?

[eadingas]

256, probably...

[Nero]

Yea, could be.
Maybe I've done a miscount or something, but it s** that the limit is there.
I was making a new version of the Multiple Temples Mod when I discovered it.
That new version will probably never come into being with this limit :(
(http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25613)

[eadingas]

The number may be weird because there may be other things the engine considers 'buildings' - like the 8 extra things at the start in export_buildings ("generic repair","settlement upgrade" etc.) - this would make the number be 280, which is a bit more acceptable... though still weird considering most of the other limits are powers of 8.

[Simetrical]

You mean powers of two, presumably.

-Simetrical

[Nero]

Yea it's a weird number, and I wish it wasn't there.
In RTR, there are a lot of new buildings. When I added 45 more, it CTDd and this was at 272/280.
I've tried to do the same thing to RTW vanilla (adding the 45 new buildings) and no problems occurred at all.

[eadingas]

BTW, maybe the limit is for number of entries in export_buildings, not in export_descr_buildings? Did you try to not add all faction entries there? Those that have "Warning! This text should never appear on screen" can be safely removed from the files...
Also, you say the game CTDs not in the beginning, but after opening buildings menu? Perhaps you've reached the limit of buildings available to build in one city, or by one faction? Try adding the last temple with other facton ownership set...

[Nero]

I really hope it's one of the things you've mentioned.
It at least isn't a export_buildings.txt, cuz the new buildings use the old entries. The same goes for export_descr_buildings_enums.
I've also tried to let the last building I added not be buildable by any faction, but it still CTDd.
But: When I added them to RTW vanilla, nothing was wrong at all - it just worked. This indicates that there is a limit imo, or it is something RTR based
:(
I'll try adding another hundred buildings - when it works, it's an RTR based problem. When it doesn't work, there is a limit.
I'll keep you informed

[Nero]

OK the building limit is a little different than first thought:

You can have 64 buildings in the game, and each building can have five levels. You can put in more levels, but the game doesn't recognize them.

~:) A binary number after all..

[eadingas]

That makes 320 buildings possible?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

OK the building limit is a little different than first thought:

You can have 64 buildings in the game, and each building can have five levels. You can put in more levels, but the game doesn't recognize them.

~:) A binary number after all..Son of a !!!!! That's exactly the number of buildingcomplexes that I hit when I had a block. I had not tried to count the total of building complexes though. I just realized that it accepted 25 *new* buildingcomplexes on top of wha the game had to start (but I didn't realize the original number was 39, which equals 64).

Now my problem is that when I insert more than one level-one building, it will recognize the building but give me a generic graphic and icon (a roman barracks or something). Trying to find a way around that, but it may be stuck.

edit: Thanks for putting this out here Nero. It will make any additional testing on my part unnecessary and you have a secondary (or tertiary or whatever) confirmation from my independent problems. ~:)

edit2: The exact error message I got when adding that 26th new complex (or the 65th overall) was (for future reference): "Settlement in (XYZ) region has not been given (XYZ) a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building." This was the settlement that the 65th building was added to. It just stopped recognizing the core building in that settlement, in whereever the 65th was placed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

RE: Limits in:

export_descr_buildings.txt
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Experimentation. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 5. Assumption, experimentation. Extras ignored.
--------------------------------
Apparently you can have multiple buildings in each "level" also; I've inserted additional buildings without putting them on the "levels" line and got them to show up. They still function, *but* I've been unable to get the images (constructed) and the icons to work for any other than the first one listed in that level. All the ones other than the first one just use the generic building images. I don't know the limit to the number of buildings you can put in for a level, but I had about 6 or 7 in there and they were showing up in game, just not with graphics. Of course it could have led to problems down the road in the game, but I didn't test it out very long before scrapping it.

[Nero]

Yes multiple buildings under one buildingcomplex is possible.

(a bit off-topic but...)
To make other images than that roman barracks appear, open descr_ui_buildings.txt.
Now fill in the last name of the new buildings (ie: temple_of_battle_shrine)
and type shrine after it. Now it will use the image that is meant for shrine.
This applies to other buildings too.
To make a building with a different last name than ie muster_field have the muster field image, you can fill in this in descr_ui_buildings:

your_building_name muster_field

hope this'll help you

[Hans Kloss]

Another question:

are the unit names (sound files) called on the battlefield also hardcoded ?

[Nero]

No they arent
They can be changed in files that have 'sound' in their name
Don't know which one for units, but it can be changed

[Hans Kloss]

I did try but without luck,despite editing various text files,unpacking IDX's and adding wave files for new units

[Spidr]

Hlp needed

I need to find out weather or not the diplomacy section is hard coded as I've posted before asking for info on the subject but only got limited info

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46278

Thanx ahead of time

Spidr

[Simetrical]

I have responded in your thread. Please be a bit more patient next time—wait at least a day or so before reposting anything.

-Simetrical

[Myrddraal]

Is there a limit to campaign map size? i.e. map_regions.tga?

[Simetrical]

Probably, but none that I know of specifically.

-Simetrical

[Encaitar]

Max build time for a unit (and presumably a building therefore) seems to be 244 turns. I say "seems", because I haven't actually gone through 255 turns to see if it's the case. I'd set a unit to a build time of 800 turns just to make them effectively unbuildable, but at least retrainable. Anyway, in game it displays their build time as 244 turns. Fairly trivial really, but there you go.

[Epistolary Richard]

Is there a limit to campaign map size? i.e. map_regions.tga?
I asked Dead Moroz the question and he had this to say:

"Theoretically there's no such limit. The map could be even larger. In any direction. But because of regions limit (at least now) you have to make all regions larger if you want to create larger map. And this will cause problems with AI: bad pathfinding, no road connections between regions, no trade. Very large regions will be isolated from each other. As CA said, the distance between neighbouring cities should be not larger than 50px. Actually safe distance is different in different situations. You should have some number of small regions between large ones to make all regional system work ok.

So this restriction of regions' size determines the real limit of map's size. The situation became better in 1.2. Maybe in expansion it will be more better."


Max build time for a unit (and presumably a building therefore) seems to be 244 turns.

I saw you suggest this idea as a solution to making retrainable mercenaries last year, and I was wondering if you'd seen if it impacted the AI? My concern is that the AI doesn't include the turn count in its cost-benefit analysis and that they'll get stuck trying to build this unit for the rest of the game.

[eadingas]

So generally, we could assume that map size limit is 10000 pixels on one side :) (200x50)

[SigniferOne]

I seem to have discovered an important fact that frustrated me to no end: when editing the textures for the battle map, anything - buildings, units, etc, export it as DXT1 with RGBA 1 bit Alpha. If you do it with DXT1 RGB without any alpha, you'll get messed up, and if you don't do it with any DXT format at all, you also get screwed. Btw I haven't tried it with other DXT formats, not that I know anything about them anyway. Oh and btw, to save in a DXT1 format seems to require that both the length and the height of your texture image are powers of 2, i.e. 64, 128, 256, 512, etc, or otherwise you can't save in that format.

[Epistolary Richard]

DXT1, I thought everything was supposed to be done in DXT5 (not that I know anything about the difference between them either).

8. Second Save Pop Up Window : ( Don't play with this since it autosaves and it sticks the acterations to your PC no matter if you remove all the known paint files *.DDS etc...so be careful ! I will attach a profile that can be loaded by the second DDS save PhotoShop window)

-Save format DXT 5 ARGB (Interpolated Alpha)
-2D Texture
-Use existing MIP maps

[SigniferOne]

Where's the quote from? I think I'm having a case of rediscovering the wheel :)

[Epistolary Richard]

Ermmm... I'm sorry to say that it's from Newbie Mod Tutorials:2D & Units & Provinces (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39092) :embarrassed: :wink:

[Malrubius]

An ancillary can only have 3 ancillaries listed for ExcludedAncillaries. 4 or more will cause CTD on program startup.

As for traits, I have successfully tested 600 as a threshold.

[Simetrical]

As for traits, I have successfully tested 600 as a threshold.Meaning you can have at least that many, or you can't have more?

-Simetrical

[Malrubius]

Meaning you can have at least that many, or you can't have more?

-Simetrical


At least that many. 600 worked successfully as the number of points needed to reach a certain threshold. And I was able to assign 100 points at a time with no problems.

[Simetrical]

It appears that there's a limit of 195 character traits overall, and 9 levels per trait. Blast. Strange number, though . . . why 195? I'm pretty sure I counted correctly. (I wish it were 256 . . .) Is anyone else able to confirm my findings? The 196th character trait is not recognized.

-Simetrical

[Malrubius]

It appears that there's a limit of 195 character traits overall, and 9 levels per trait. Blast. Strange number, though . . . why 195? I'm pretty sure I counted correctly. (I wish it were 256 . . .) Is anyone else able to confirm my findings? The 196th character trait is not recognized.

-Simetrical

I can confirm that more than 256 traits will work. I haven't tried more than 9 levels to a trait, though.

I got that error message "Trait not recognised" once when I had used "Antitraits" instead of "AntiTraits" in defining the previous trait. I thought I had hit a hard limit, too. For a couple of days, I was not a happy camper :no: . But once I got pointed in the right direction, I started looking for what I had done wrong.

Once I started moving traits around a different one became unrecognized--the one immediately after the one I moved. That pointed me to looking at the definition for that trait, where I found the error. It's probably just something like that, that you've run into. Another problem I always have is forgetting "Condition Trait TraitX"; instead I write "Condition TraitX" but at least that returns an error that's easy to track down.

[Simetrical]

And isn't that a relief! Turns out I had the Hidden line after AntiTraits rather than before. Thanks!

-Simetrical

[pwijnands]

Maximum missile range depends on the range in export_descr_units.txt and on the velocity in descr_projectile_new.txt.
I copied big_boulder and copied it as big_boulder_2, I doubled the velocity and my onagers could targets on the other side of a large town.

[Tykell]

What's the men per unit limit as of now for cinematic purposes?

[Simetrical]

243, with 60-man size specified in EDU.txt, Huge size, and three officers. I think there's some convoluted workaround, but I don't know if it'd work for cinematics.

-Simetrical

[Tykell]

Cinematics are just battle replays, so shoot.

[Southern Hunter]

Thanks for this thread! I just figured out why my mod is giving CTDs :-)

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

There had best be a way to get round those hard coded limits. All I wanted was huge battles. Seriosly, that's *all* I wanted :(

[Myrddraal]

Well you can still get pretty big ones, have you got the settings on huge unit size? And then you just make every unit have the maximum in men. 16 units per army, thats quite big....

Sorry but thats the trouble with hardcoded stuff. Anyway welcome to the .ORG :smile:

[SigniferOne]

Is this big enough?

http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rage/Huge_beginning_jpg.jpg

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

Is this big enough?

http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rage/Huge_beginning_jpg.jpg
My dream has come true!

But seriously, it doesnt seems possible. Was that a multiplayer game I take it?

@Myrddraal: Yes, I'm on huge unit size, but that just doesnt cut it for me (I'm sorry to say) I wrote a little program that will go through the unit_prod file and multiply the size of the units by a certain amount up to the hard coded limit, but this makes the barbarian factions have a critical handicap during battle. They rely on large hordes of men per unit & if the Romans (for example) have an equal amount, then they dont stand a chance. i.e. the game becomes unbalanced :(
Furthermore, due to the population growth rate *not* being modified depending on what unit size you have selected, you run into very large problems getting your cities up to a decent level & maintaining an army. This, I far as I'm concerned, was an oversight by CA (that probably had Activision breathing down its neck). Propulation growth should be higher for the larger unit sizes.

Anyway, I digress. How do you get those gigantic units if it is possible?

PS Thanks for the warm welcome :)

[Hans Kloss]

another quick question :

what is top limit for amount of money that can be added to faction in descr_strat ?

[Dol Guldur]

Good question - I will admit to knowing it is at least 70 million :embarassed:

[Hans Kloss]

going over certain amount will eventually cause RTW to CTD or even worst PC might get locked up on the end of the turn.It would be good to know what would be highest amount per faction

[Andreas]

just one question... what is the maximum number of units? In the FP it sais both 300 and 500... i need to plan:)

[Simetrical]

It used to be 300 but became 500 with the 1.2 patch. I guess I forgot to update the first paragraph!

-Simetrical

[Hans Kloss]

going over certain amount will eventually cause RTW to CTD or even worst PC might get locked up on the end of the turn.It would be good to know what would be highest amount per faction

By trial and error process I have come conclusion that highest amount seem to be 999.999.


It used to be 300 but became 500 with the 1.2 patch. I guess I forgot to update the first paragraph!

are numbers of models allowed in descr_model_battle still at 255 ?

[Simetrical]

Yes.

Edit: And Dol Guldur says 70,000,000 is a valid amount of denarii in descr_strat.

-Simetrical

[Dol Guldur]

Indeed, 500,000,000 (500 million) denari also works perfectly well thank-you-very-much. I wonder what that is in today's money?

[Simetrical]

Maybe $100 million to $10 billion. Peanuts, really. The use of denarii as currency is rather silly—a denarius was worth not much at all. A decent job got one denarius a day. Roman legionaries got paid maybe 300 denarii a year or so, but in the game a group of 40—assumed to be representative of 1600-2400—gets paid hardly more than that. That's why RTR 6.0 will be switching the currency to silver talents: not perfect, but a lot better. 500 million talents of silver would be equal maybe 10 billion pounds of it, while some Googling tells me would sell for around $70 billion today. I expect that silver was worth more back then, however.

-Simetrical

[Encaitar]

Denarii is your standard int. Max positive value is 2,147,483,647. If you put in 2,147,483,648 for instance it becomes -2,147,483,648.

[Hans Kloss]

For some strange reason when I start campaign with more then 999.999 after 8 or 9 turn RTW locks up my PC

[wlesmana]

I modded deesc_model_strat.txt by adding my own entry for stra map model (after editing desc_character.txt of course). The campaign map always CTD with this error:

Unable to find texture ".

At first I thought it was my model that's causing this, but when I deleted the entry and instead pasted my model's data on an existing strat model entry, it worked fine and my model showed up on the map. So is there a maximum number for entries in desc_models_strat.txt?

[Monkwarrior]

I modded deesc_model_strat.txt by adding my own entry for stra map model (after editing desc_character.txt of course). The campaign map always CTD with this error:

Unable to find texture ".

At first I thought it was my model that's causing this, but when I deleted the entry and instead pasted my model's data on an existing strat model entry, it worked fine and my model showed up on the map. So is there a maximum number for entries in desc_models_strat.txt?
I'm not sure about the possible limit, but I have included at least 7-8 new models in descr_model_strat. They were taken from the battle models without problems. However, when I tried to add another model, the game CTD because of unknow reasons. ~:confused:
I would try with another model to include in descr_model_strat just see what happens.
Good luck. ~:cheers:

[McFungos]

An ancillary can give no more than 8 differents bonuses.

if >9 differents bonus you never get that ancillary even if you put 100% to its trigger.

If changed to >9 differents bonuses during a campaign, generals with that ancillary will keep the previous bonuses even if you transfert that ancillary.
Generals who receive a such ancillary get nothing.

[McFungos]

Correction i mean >8

[Simetrical]

Thanks for the info!

-Simetrical

[Simetrical]

Added this:

Hidden resources: Min 1?, max 63 or 64 (not sure which). Extras cause a CTD, not including rome causes a CTD (I think), not including italy prevents Marian reforms (I think). Experimentation, experimentation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=705746#post705746). But see here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=52650) for a way to overcome the limitation.

[Dol Guldur]

I have a texture of a little over 1000K (512X512) and it seems to be too much for my "not bad" graphics card/PC memory. I get the "insufficient memory to load texture set" message (or whatever it says!)

Anyone got more research/comments on this?

[Epistolary Richard]

The recruitment panel can only show a maximum of 32 units (not including agents), so if you have more than 32 units recruitable in a specific place and a specific faction you're likely to get a CTD.

[Frans Ubberdork]

--I have a texture of a little over 1000K (512X512) and it seems to be too much for ----my "not bad" graphics card/PC memory. I get the "insufficient memory to load ---------texture set" message (or whatever it says!)

--Anyone got more research/comments on this?

I have had this happen while editing models in the descr_model_strat file. What happened to me is that RTW looks at the .cas file you have selected..lets say gondor_ king.cas and looks at the .cas file and see's the texture file you used to make the original texture say gondor_king.psd tries to load it along with any other textures you associated with it in the strat file and will give you that error or another error that says unable to load texture set. there might be other causes but that is what my trouble was caused by.

another cause I have found was if you add a model to the descr_model_battle file and give it the mercenary trait(in the unit stats) but forgot to associate a merc skin it will load the texture file you associated with the .cas while editing in (3dsmax or whatever you use).
These may not be the problem but these HAVE happened to me.

thomas

[Simetrical]

The recruitment panel can only show a maximum of 32 units (not including agents), so if you have more than 32 units recruitable in a specific place and a specific faction you're likely to get a CTD.Added.

[dhague]

Actually this is about a "hard-coded trigger", but I think it fits here better than elsewhere. After lots of experimenting, I believe that there is a hidden hard-coded script trigger condition of "faction family generals count less than 60% of faction settlements count" where this trigger condition is a pre-test for triggering birth events (subject to fertility level factors) , triggering Adoption events, and triggering Man_of_the_Hour events (subject to successful battles). Adoption events seem to occur primarily if there are no successful MOH events in the 1-2 turns after this hard-coded trigger condition is met. After multiple test campaigns, it appears that meeting this hard-coded trigger condition is the only way of getting a "well populated family tree".

Just another minor contribution that will probably be invalidated by RTW/BI.

[Simetrical]

Yep, this is known. Although you might want to edit your post, the board hates pointy brackets for some reason.

[kayapó]

export_descr_character_trait.txt

There is a limit of 10 in the number of antitraits that can be set for a single trait.

You cannot have more than 10 antitraits.

[Simetrical]

Rats! Well, we'll pull through, I guess.

[Suraknar]

The other limits (200 provinces, 255 unit models, 20 landmasses) have been left in place, and it's unlikely that there will be another patch which will change those. Oh well...

Hello Jerome,

Not sure if this was already answered, maybe someone that knows could answer instead, but does the 255 unit models include the various LOD's?

Exemple, is roman_100.cas, roman_200.cas, roman_300.cas and roman_400.cas considered 4 models or 1 model in that 255 limit?

Thanks

[Dol Guldur]

This has already been addressed I believe.

Clearly there are far more than 255 cas files attached to units. The limit must therefore apply to the number of model entries in the DMB file.

[Suraknar]

Ahh thank you, this clarifies this aswell, much appreciated!

[Simetrical]

Updated with max general bodyguard size.

[dark]

In the descr_regions.txt there is a limit of 9 resources either hidden or not. More resources are apparently ignored by the engine.

[Simetrical]

Added. Have a link to discussions, research, whatever?

[dark]

LoneGunman made a research post in TWcenter.
Resources Per Region Limit (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=635822)

[Black Crow]

i belive i have found a new hard coded limit for buildings complexes in : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=973334#post973334

[Red Harvest]

Not a "limit" as such, but I have noticed with chariot units that the missile count includes the charioteer. So his missiles are distributed to his comrades. If there is a single passenger firing missiles, his missile count is doubled. If there are two passengers firing their missile count is effectively increased by 50%. Tested this with javelins, suspect the same is occurring with arrows. Have not tested elephants for this.

[lysarin]

I think the antitrait limit is 20 in v1.6.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Whilst tweaking descr_rebel_factions.txt, I've found that if you include more than 20 units under a non-region based event, the game will give you an error message from -show_err.

Note, however, that this message was not encountered during startup or before entering a battle. Instead it was encountered after RTW had been exited, then it popped-up before returning to desktop. This would suggest that you can get away with including more than 20 units under say, Brigands, Pirates or Gladiator_Uprising, but you will be prompted to lower your limit in the text. Here is what I received:

"too many unit types in rebel faction type (brigands)"

In my case there were 22 units under Brigands, so semi-colons (;) were used to filter out 2 of the lines, rather than completely remove them from the script. So it appears the maximum value for this is 20.

Also tried finding a minimum limit, completely removed all unit entries, but left the type of rebellion in, IE Brigands. Relaunched RTW, I noticed things seemed to be a bit 'sticky' when browsing through menus, which suggested the game was having difficulty reading one or more of the text files. Sure enough when RTW was exited, a prompt dialogue box appeared stating the following:

"unknown identifier for rebel type (brigands) when expecting unit"

If you want to include the possibility of a non-region based rebellion, the minimum number of units appears to be at least 1, and from the above, the maximum appears to be 20 units. I'm assuming this criteria also applies to region-based rebellions as well, but note many of these by default contain a handful of units, typically 5-10 per region.

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

Skimmed through the posts again, don't think it has already been posted. Discovered the max range for javelins (foot units) from this:

https://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8564/error14bl.jpg

:medievalcheers:

[Red Harvest]

Skimmed through the posts again, don't think it has already been posted. Discovered the max range for javelins (foot units) from this:

https://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8564/error14bl.jpg

:medievalcheers:

No, I don't believe that is a limit, it is based on velocity. If you increase the velocity in projectiles_new you can increase the range without that message. The game doesn't know what the projectile is. Other than fortifications using specific names, the projectiles are generic. You could make the javelins into arrows, and arrows into javelins swapping their projectiles stats, and the game would not know the difference.

Even with that message the javelins work, they just can't throw farther than the distance given. I know this because I reduced the velocity, and got a range limit that was considerably less.

[Ainafoeht]

Hi;

My main question (you 'll find many more reading it to the end,lol) is: what is the minimum value of "Chance:" when we tweak the triggers in the descr_export_ancillaries.txt?

I am asking cause I got really frustrated couple of days ago...I gave some retinues the trigger chance value=0 and yet kept getting them coming.

Is there some sort of 'conflict' created with other values I altered?Do we know whats the minimum value?And if the minimum is "1" isnt it bit of 'unrealistic' in mathematics terms? I mean,"0" as a chance looks pretty fine to me,lol,why should it be a false value? :)

The way I see it,I am just trying to save the game from this extra little bother to calculate those little extra chances,and the game doesnt seem to accept my helping hand! :)

[Malrubius]

Hi;

My main question (you 'll find many more reading it to the end,lol) is: what is the minimum value of "Chance:" when we tweak the triggers in the descr_export_ancillaries.txt?

I am asking cause I got really frustrated couple of days ago...I gave some retinues the trigger chance value=0 and yet kept getting them coming.

Is there some sort of 'conflict' created with other values I altered?Do we know whats the minimum value?And if the minimum is "1" isnt it bit of 'unrealistic' in mathematics terms? I mean,"0" as a chance looks pretty fine to me,lol,why should it be a false value? :)

The way I see it,I am just trying to save the game from this extra little bother to calculate those little extra chances,and the game doesnt seem to accept my helping hand! :)

"1" is about as low as you can go. Any lower, and you might as well delete the trigger or comment it out. If you examine the traits and ancillaries files, you'll see there's not much math going on in there. :wall:

[Ainafoeht]

Thank you Malrubius.And yes, certainly not any atomic theory going on in there,but somehow the value "0" sounded possible to my ears.

I could do this (minimize chances to get an undesired achillary) by typing a line to exclude my faction I guess.

But I have found some problems when trying to exclude specific retinues from specific factions (e.g my game goes ctd when I try to exlcude the "spice merchant" from the Senate)...

Anyhow-thanx for your answer mate;

[Malrubius]

I could do this (minimize chances to get an undesired achillary) by typing a line to exclude my faction I guess.

But I have found some problems when trying to exclude specific retinues from specific factions (e.g my game goes ctd when I try to exlcude the "spice merchant" from the Senate)...

Anyhow-thanx for your answer mate;

You got a CTD by adding this line to the trigger?


and not FactionType romans_senate


Can you even play as the Senate? I thought that was buggy anyway.

[Simetrical]

i belive i have found a new hard coded limit for buildings complexes in : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=973334#post973334Added.

Not a "limit" as such, but I have noticed with chariot units that the missile count includes the charioteer. So his missiles are distributed to his comrades. If there is a single passenger firing missiles, his missile count is doubled. If there are two passengers firing their missile count is effectively increased by 50%. Tested this with javelins, suspect the same is occurring with arrows. Have not tested elephants for this.Added.

I think the antitrait limit is 20 in v1.6. Seems like it at least.Added.

Whilst tweaking descr_rebel_factions.txt, I've found that if you include more than 20 units under a non-region based event, the game will give you an error message from -show_err.Added.

Discovered the max range for javelins (foot units) from this:Already listed, but thanks anyway.

[orwell]

I wanted to clarify something, the tech tree levels is limited to 5, and the amount of buildings per level 64? How many buildings can be in the game in total? Are the number of special buildings, such as the colossus of Rhodes or the lighthouse in alexandria limited?

[Marcus Camillus]

And isn't that a relief! Turns out I had the Hidden line after AntiTraits rather than before. Thanks!

-Simetrical
Thought I would add this post in case someone has the same problem I did. "Hidden" must be before ExcludeCultures in the "export_descr_character_traits.txt" file. Maybe it needs to be right after "Characters".

This forum topic just solved a problem I was having with the character traits I was creating. Everything worked great, then suddenly it stopped working and was getting the error message "Trait not recognized" via using the "-show_err". The trait that was not being recognized was right after the one I had hidden, but added the "Hidden" entry in the wrong order.

I sure find "The Guild" invaluable with my modding efforts. Thanks for posting this info!

Vale,
Marcus Camillus

[Dol Guldur]

Valuable indeed - and I too am thankful for this venue of modding research & tutorials!

Orwell - the tech trees are limited to 64 and the number of buildings within a tree (confusingly called "levels") can go as high as 9 (which can be spread over as many of the standard settlement levels as you wish, including village although this latter will not display on your BB, nor will upgrades on the same settlement level or secondary or tertiary branches).

The tech trees are quite flexible. The "special buildings" you mention are called Wonders and they are not buildings. They are strat_map models assigned to hardcoded effects. You cannot edit the effects (though you can create your own on top of them by assigning them a building) and there can be no more than 7 of these in the game.

[nikolai1962]

In the descr_regions.txt there is a limit of 9 resources either hidden or not. More resources are apparently ignored by the engine.

In vanilla rtw patched to 1.5 I added 26 resources to umbria of the form aaa, bbb, ccc etc through to zzz and then made the practise field require hidden_resource zzz. It worked as intended, ariminum could build a practise field but arretium couldn't.

It may be different in 1.2.

[Marcus Camillus]

Does anyone know the limit to how many ancillaries a character can have? Working on my latest mod version, it appears to be a maximum limit of 8 ancillaries per character.

Also, I seem to remember reading some where that the maximum number of traits a character can have is 20 traits. Is this correct?

[Malrubius]

8 ancillaries is the max (probably due to issues with the portraits), but AFAICT, there is no limit to how many traits a general can have. In testing, I've had over 64 visible traits with no problems, and EB has tons of hidden traits, as well. My guess is that the records are initialized at game start when the edct file is parsed, and that a general could conceivably possess one of every single trait/antitrait combination.

[Marcus Camillus]

Cool, thanks for the reply, Malrubius. So the limit for each character is 8 ancillaries, and it looks like no limit for traits. The traits having no limit is great, especially for my current Roman Leadership system.

I ran into the 8 ancillaries limit, but I came up with a system to limit the number of regular ancillaries to 6, leaving me an extra 2 for my Roman Military Leadership system.

What I found through experimentation was that I could have each regular ancillary (those that were not part of my Roman Leadersip system), assign an "Effect NavalCommand 1" attribute to a character that held that ancillary. I then added to all the triggers for these regular ancillaries a condition of "and Attribute NavalCommand < 6" so that a character who currently had 5 regular ancillaries could receive one more for a new total of 6 regular ancillaries, leaving 2 slots open for my Roman Leadership system's custom ancillaries, such as my Roman I Legion Banner for my Legate rank trait, or my "Quaestor of the Governor of Latium" ancillary for my Governor of Latium rank trait.

Giving a family character a NavalCommand attribute did not cause any CTD or other problems, and I receive no error messages from using the "-show_err" startup option. I knew from research online and looking through some of the graphics files and text files, that apparently CA at one time was thinking of allowing family characters to be assigned as Admirals, but changed their mind at some point. So, apparently the game engine does not object to this use by my Roman Leadership system. It does not show up in-game and is effectively hidden from the player's view. So only the game engine, me, and whoever looks through my files will notice this.

I did this so that a when a character gains regular ancillaries like normal, he does not gain so many that there is no room for my custom ancillaries, which I have even assigned custom graphics.

Neat little behind the scenes trick. Perhaps someone else might find this useful for their own modding ideas.

I also found one other attribute that could possibly be used with family characters as a limiter too, "SenateStanding" attribute, which could possibly be used if the Roman Senate has been eliminated from your RTW mod. Another possible unused attribute if the Roman factions have been unified, is "PopularStanding", but this might be used for something other than the effect it had on the old Roman Senate, especially in BI.

Below I have attached the info I have gathered from the versions of RTW/BI concerning available attributes for characters, and a brief explanation for each from the data\text folder files and my own observations.

RTR 6 Gold Attributes (which is based on the RTW v1.2 Game Engine):

Ambush = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when ambushing.
Attack = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when attacking.
BattleSurgery = Percentage increase (+) or decrease (-) to battle casualty recovery rate.
BodyguardValour = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to bodyguard experience.
BribeResistance = Percentage increase (+) or decrease (-) to cost to bribe.
CavalryCommand = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when commanding cavalry.
Combat_V_Barbarians = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Barbarians.
Combat_V_Cathaginians = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Carthaginians.
Combat_V_Easterners = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Easterners.
Combat_V_Egyptians = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Egyptians.
Combat_V_Greeks = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Greeks.
Combat_V_Romans = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Romans.
Combat_V_Slaves = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Slaves.
Command = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars).
Construction = Percentage discount (+ or -) on construction costs.
Defence = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when defending.
Electability = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Electability.
Farming = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to farming output.
Fertility = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Fertility (Increases or decreases the chance of having children).
GrainTrading = Increases (+) or decreases (-) the rate of population growth.
Health = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to public health.
HitPoints = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to your general's hitpoints (how many hits your general can take before dying).
InfantryCommand = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when commanding infantry.
Influence = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Influence.
Law = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Law (improves public order).
LineOfSight = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to line of sight (increases the range at which enemies are spotted).
Looting = Percentage bonus to cash gained from looting.
Management = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Management.
Mining = Percentage bonus or penalty on mining income.
MovementPoints = Percentage increase (+) or decrease (-) Movement Points (inceases or reduces the distance armies can march).
NavalCommand = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) at sea.
Negotiation = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Negotiation.
NightBattle = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting at night.
PersonalSecurity = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to personal security (improves or reduces the chances of detecting and foiling assassination attempts).
PublicSecurity = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to public security (improves or reduces the chances of detecting and capturing enemy agents).
SiegeAttack = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when assaulting walls.
SiegeDefence = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when defending walls.
SiegeEngineering = Increase (+) to number of Build Points available each turn (required for the construction of siege equipment).
SlaveTrading = Increases (+) or decreases (-) the rate of population growth in regions where slaves are plentiful.
Squalor = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to squalor (increases or decreases population growth and public order).
Subterfuge = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to agent's skill.
TaxCollection = Percentage bonus or penalty on tax income.
Trading = Percentage bonus or penalty on all trade income.
TrainingAgents = Percentage discount (+ or -) on agent training costs. Each point equals 10%.
TrainingAnimalUnits = Percentage discount (+ or -) on animal unit training costs.
TrainingUnits = Percentage discount (+ or -) on unit training costs.
TroopMorale = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Morale for all troops on the battlefield.
Unrest = Increase (+) to Unrest has a negative effect on public order, decrease (-) to Unrest has a positive effect on public order.



RTW Attributes Excluded from RTR 6 Gold:

PopularStanding = Percentage increase (+) or decrease (-) to a faction's popularity with the People.
SenateStanding = Percentage increase (+) or decrease (-) to a faction's popularity with the Senate.

Note: These 2 attributes are not used in RTR 6 Gold due to the elimination of the Roman Senate faction.



Attributes Changed/Corrected in RTW v1.5: (Compared to RTW v1.2 and RTR 6 Gold)

Combat_V_Barbarian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Barbarians.
Combat_V_Carthaginian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Cathaginians.
Combat_V_Eastern = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Easterners.
Combat_V_Egyptian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Egyptians.
Combat_V_Greek = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Greeks.
Combat_V_Roman = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Romans.
Combat_V_Slave = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Slaves.



New BI v1.6 Attributes:

Combat_V_Nomad = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Nomads.
Combat_V_Hun = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Huns.
LocalPopularity = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to a character's local (city residing in) influence.
Loyalty = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to loyalty of a character to the character's faction. Having a low loyalty increases the chance a general will join a revolt if one should take place.



New BI v1.6 Religious Attributes (Religious_Belief):

christianity = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Christian conversion of city's population. Every 1 point equals 5% conversion.
pagan = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Pagan conversion of city's population. Every 1 point equals 5% conversion.
zoroastrian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Zoroastrian conversion of city's population. Every 1 point equals 5% conversion.

Note: These are not assigned via use of "effect", but via the use of "Religious_Belief" in a trait's listing.



Attributes Changed/Corrected in BI v1.6: (Compared to RTW v1.2 and RTR 6 Gold)

Combat_V_Barbarian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Barbarians.
Combat_V_Carthaginian = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Cathaginians.
Combat_V_Eastern = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Easterners.
Combat_V_Roman = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Romans.
Combat_V_Slave = Increase (+) or decrease (-) to Command (number of Command Stars) when fighting against Slaves.

Note: The Combat_V_Egyptian and Combat_V_Greek attributes are not listed in the BI v1.6 traits file. I assume the Combat_V_Nomad and Combat_V_Hun attributes replaced them.



Additional Notes:

The maximum number of antitraits seems to have inceased with BI v1.6, which I have counted up to 11 in the BI traits file.
I have posted this info to assist others with modding RTW, and as an attempt to give back to the TWCenter community a little for what assistance I have received.

Oh, and I am a great fan of your excellent "Genetics, Aging, Family, and Health Mod", Malrubius!

[Dol Guldur]

Thx for that Cam.


To update the initial post, there seems to be a limit of 165 events. See desc_events_enums.

[Melea Lord]

Has this been mentioned in the post:

The Yubtseb eliphants have 30 hp. 15 ain't the max.

[Caesar_Julius]

Also a limit has the Bi.exe when you try to start rtw and the imperial campaign over it. The BI.exe didn&#180;t support the outlaw events and fucntions so its not possible to cause a civil war wjhen you play over this Bi.exe. It Causes CTD&#180;s

Also the RTW.exe doesnt support the horde ability function. Its causes CTD&#180;s

[Caius]

What is a Hard-Coded limit?Can I modify the descr_merecenary without problem?

[ss97slp]

well im still figuring stuff out and im also one of those people that want larger unit sizes beyond the max 60=240. which i did figure out that you can input any number less than 60 and the ratio multiplies by 4. for instance
40=160
42=168
55=221
60=240 plus officers for each of course

after reading other peoples frustration with this i came to realize that noone had asked (that i have seen) if you could up the number of units in an army beyond the 20 allowed. ive seen plenty of AI armies with the Greeks for instance, that can have 22 or 23. so to make armies larger can the max units in an army just be raised to like 30 or something? and where can that file be found in the game to change it?

[DimeBagHo]

You can't have more than 20 units in an army, and you are mistaken about armies sometimes having 22 or more units. The scroll for viewing an army shows 9 units to a line, which creates the false impression that some armies have more than 20 units.

[cunctator]

In descr_settlement_plan.txt maximaly 7 strat map buildings can be asigned to each 3D battlemap building.

[lottrbacchus]

i've looked around to see if i could find a list of this sort of information and haven't yet, and i thought it would be good to have here-

what are all of the max limits on city statistics- squalor (125), distance to capital (80?), population growth, law, garrison (80) etc etc etc

then also what are the maximum effects on the city from characters- some ancillaries give -1 squalor but what is the max? i mean, say a governor managed to get 5 ancillaries that each had a negative effect on squalor (or whatever), what would the cumulative max be?

[Monkwarrior]

Perhaps it was already known (not by me :embarassed: ).

The maximum number of objects in model is 11 (apart from bones and scene root). 12 objects produces distortion of model in game (correct in 3ds max with animations) and CTD.
Solved by attaching some objects together.

[blacksnail]

I know the hidden_resource limit is 64, but is there a standard resource limit?

[Dol Guldur]

Well, you cannot create visible trade resources so I am not sure what you mean - we have just 26 (or was it 27?) that are listed.

I'm sure I've misunderstood you ;)

[Makanyane]

Don't think this is in here, max age you can give a named character in descr_strat.txt is 120. (by testing - show_err message if higher)

Unfortunately they can still live to 123 or so, which means they don't necessarily die on first turn.

[Charge]

What a hell is this? :
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7748/rtwe3ko9.th.jpg (https://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rtwe3ko9.jpg)
so they can use thousands of provinces, hundreds of soldiers in unit, tens of factions, why we cannot????:furious3:
CA, increase this damn limits!

[Makanyane]

It's been pointed out that this thread doesn't mention hard-coded limit for campaign map size (apart from some initial speculation about 50pixel distance between cities)...

I think it is fairly well established (and it ties up with my research findings) that maximum possible size is 510 x 510 pixels map_regions.tga size which equates to 1021 x 1021 pixels map_heights.tga.

If anyone has got it to load over that please say....

[Charge]

I have made maps over 510 and they always crashes.
Once i make them 510 they loads. Seems its a limit.:wink:

[Roughneck]

This has not been fully tested, as I'm still experimenting with it, but it seems faction characters are hard-coded to have rally ability. I've tried getting rid of it in battle.txt and battle_ed.txt, only to experience either a CTD with no error report, or the general still has the rally ability.

Right now, I'm going to try to replace the rally ability with another ability, but I'm thinking this will affect ALL faction characters, and not just faction-specific characters.

[Red Spot]

descr_sm_factions.txt
Faction limit: Min ?, max 21. Experimentation. Note that the maximum must include, for unexpanded RTW, one rebel faction, four Roman factions (including a Senate and the Roman alliance), six barbarian factions, four Greek factions, three Eastern factions, two Carthaginian factions, and an Egyptian faction, as far as faction-culture correspondence goes. In BI the culture restrictions and Roman alliance/Senate limitations are lifted, but there still must presumably be a rebel faction. Fewer factions than 21 are possible.


Was just double checking a few thngs, no need to invent the wheel again ...

Not really sure if I'm getting the "unexpanded" part correctly, but I take it you at least did not imply "only v1.0"

What I'd like to point out is that I'm making a sort of all Romans mod and have currently 16 Roman factions in my game, the maximum I believe I can have
Afaik you need 1 faction per culture, at least for the imperial campaign wich is pretty sweet with the Senate outlawing factions left and right ... :D


G

[Makanyane]

I'm not sure when the culture restrictions altered, but I am fairly sure that just refers to the difference between patch versions.

You reminded me though; Darkarbiter added to the TWC Wiki version of that bit of the list:
"Fewer then 5 will also cause a crash if the player attempts to view "top five factions" for anything on the statistics screen as well."

He's right! Which was very annoying as I'd just uploaded 150MB of game that only had four factions in most of its campaigns when I spotted the comment...

[Monkwarrior]

What I'd like to point out is that I'm making a sort of all Romans mod and have currently 16 Roman factions in my game, the maximum I believe I can have
Afaik you need 1 faction per culture, at least for the imperial campaign wich is pretty sweet with the Senate outlawing factions left and right ... :D

Not sure about that. For ages I had a campaign with only 5 cultures: roman, greek, carthaginian, eastern and barbarian. No egyptians at all, in spite of being included in descr_cultures.

Did you succed in that "all romans" mod? How does the senate manage with all those roman families?:dizzy2:

[Red Spot]

Going to try that out Monkwarrior, I once had a culture removed and couldnt get past a CTD'ing game, I however am, to my liking, a few romans short ....

Anyway the game runs like a charm, getting my behind whooped for the first time in a campaign ....

The Senate just keeps outlawing the Julii (me) in label (imo lack of labels or simply reverting to Julii) without any more side-effect than you failing the "declare war on outlawed faction" missions all the time (wich you need to mod else you will end up with a very suicidal family :D)

I'm loving it ...;) (do note that gameplay is much more important to me than looks, though looks are cool too ...:laugh4: )


G

[Monkwarrior]

Going to try that out Monkwarrior, I once had a culture removed and couldnt get past a CTD'ing game, I however am, to my liking, a few romans short ....
G
It didn't work in that way.
Don't eliminate any culture. Just don't assign any faction to one culture. That's all.

[Red Spot]

I meant that ... anyway just redid it and got a bunch of CTD's untill I removed all refrences to diff. cultures in descr_building_battle and now I have 21 roman factions in my game ....

Thank you very much for sharing it is poss. Monkwarrior as else I wouldnt have even tried again :2thumbsup:


G

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Is the resource limit really 9??

map_regions.txt
Resources per province: Min 0?, max 9? Assumption, experimentation. Extras ignored?



In the descr_regions.txt there is a limit of 9 resources either hidden or not. More resources are apparently ignored by the engine.

Well I checked the EB file and I saw in many regions more than 9 resources (think most of them are hidden).

[Dol Guldur]

I believe it is incorrect or was upped in an official patch. And you do not need to list resources anyway, as long as they are in the DS file. Do list hidden resources though.

[Motep]

As for max ammo, I edited the arrows I was using (80 angle, 80 velocity), gave it a range of 900, and I could shoot half way across the battle map.

So far, I have yet to reach a limit.

[HouseOfHam]

never mind

[HouseOfHam]

Scratch that. Works fine with longer ones.

ps: Why can't I edit my own posts?

[Caius]

Scratch that. Works fine with longer ones.

ps: Why can't I edit my own posts?
BEcause you are a Junior Member.

Be a good member and you will deserve your own promotion.

[DimeBagHo]

Units recruitable in a given city, not counting agents: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation. Extras CTD.
Should be changed to Min 1, Max 32. Having no recruitable units in a city will cause a CTD under certain circumstances (if the city is bribed, or if it rebels). Also units with the mercenary_unit attribute can't be used to meet the 1 unit minimum.

[Thor the Bassist]

Max number of buildings that can have platforms in one battlemap is 115. Exceeding this creates a (rather confusing) CTD with no error message.

[Squid]

In descr_settlement_plan.txt, in each variant block the maximum number of buildings allowed is 6. If you have more than 6 you get the following error:


Script Error in data\descr_settlement_plan.txt at line 6992, column 17

Unable to add variant guard - exceeded maximum

Note: The line number in the error is before the actual line in the file, as it seems for descr_settlement_plans.txt the engine does not count empty lines in the line count.

[CPT Worsham]

We tested the limit for models, it is actually 255, not 245.

So with the model limit at 255 while the unit limit is 500 the only reach 500 units is to use replica models and have a bunch of different look alike units with different names. Does this make any sense???:dizzy2:

[Vuk]

Is the faction limit 21 in Barbarian Invasion as well? (I have never really played or modded it :P)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes, it's 21.

[Vuk]

kk, thanks!

[StefanS]

Anyone still here?

[Ludens]

Anyone still here?

Some of us are still watching this forum, although you'd probably get a faster response to any modding questions if you head over to the TW center (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?22-Rome-Total-War-Workshop).