Plain Stupid

[The Stranger]

hahahahahaha, routing units just stay together in a group whne routing, shouldnt they scatter. hahahahahaha

[Lancome]

yea, usually when I make units Rout they usually stick together when they head up north. Mehhh, Its just makes it easier for me to come w/ my cavalry :charge: and Chop them up.

[BrutalDictatorship]

many mods have tried to work on this...since the direction they run in (in a group) is hardcoded, modders have given routing units a little speed boost to try and give them a little bit better of a chance to get away. As it is now though, same thing...I just run about 99 percent of them down...

:charge:

[Kekvit Irae]

While this thread has been reported as spam, the surprisingly-non spam responses so far makes me think twice about closing this thread. Let's continue on that path and have a nice discussion about why routing units are still coherant, shall we?

[professorspatula]

I'm sure in the previous TW games, that the routers don't stick so close together. Unit movement in RTW is so robotic and linear that the little men have to follow whoever has the flag above them, even if it means running back through the enemy to catch up with the other routers in the unit. The worst case of stupidity of the routers I've seen is after I'd modded terrain movement modifiers. The differences in speed on various terrains can make soldiers in the unit become separated from one another, and on one occasion, a routing unit had one soldier running well in advance of the rest of the unit which had the unit flag/banner over them. This soldier crossed the map boundary and was safe - except I then chased down the rest of his unit, making them turn around and run in the opposite direction. The poor chap who was already safe, then ran back onto the battlefield in an attempt to catch up with his unit. Naturally I rewarded his dedication to staying with his unit by driving my cavalry over his head.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think they kept together pretty much as much in the previous games, though this is from memory so I am not sure it is correct.

The turning back glitch and such was not there that I know of though.

[antisocialmunky]

Ther is some logic in it... I mean... animals do it, they run in herds so they can't be singled out. Why can't routers?

[katank]

Also, they don't seem to head off the map edge ASAP but try to get back to where they entered the battle.

I suppose it's to run back to save their baggage train?

Many a gallant last ditch defense have been fought in defense of luggage.

[Lancome]

Yea but when the enemy is Group routing its just makes it easy for them to be wiped out.

[katank]

True that. Still, defending baggage train would make group routing make sense.

Pity, I think baggage trains were supposed to be implemented too but were unfinished.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ya know Grant got his start defending baggage trains in the Mexican American War. Or if you prefer the Mexican, Filipino, Cuban, Spanish, American War. I don't think I forgot anybody...

I bet they would have routed in a general group, scattering singles oneself out and does not give you other people to use as meat shields.

[Sfwartir]

Might be wrong on this, but here we go:
Isn't it part of human psyche to stick together when fleeing/routing? Maybe it's some prehistoric instinct kicking in, convincing one's mind that it's a lot safer to move in groups, even when fleeing? Also, at least trained military units should know that a group usually stands a better chance of surviving than a signle individual.
Don't know for sure tho' ~:confused:

[CMcMahon]

If there's one thing that I wish units would do, it would be to have an unauthorized retreat; not a rout, but falling back while continuing to fight.

[FURRY_BOOTS]

at times like these, i sure wish we had the ability to capture enemies alive, like in medieval, i sure could do with the ransom money, or just to hear that satisfying splatter sound, ahhhh ~D

[PseRamesses]

Might be wrong on this, but here we go:
Isn't it part of human psyche to stick together when fleeing/routing? Maybe it's some prehistoric instinct kicking in, convincing one's mind that it's a lot safer to move in groups, even when fleeing? Also, at least trained military units should know that a group usually stands a better chance of surviving than a signle individual.
Don't know for sure tho' ~:confused:
I for one would rather flee in a group than on my own so I do belive your conlusion is correct Sfwartir. I calculate that I´ve a better chance of getting out of that predicament alive.

[antisocialmunky]

I don't think it's a matter of actively using people as meat shields. I think it's more like 'I don't know what the hell to do, I guess I'll follow these guys!'

[katank]

Units do stick together. After all, infantry stands no chance against cavalry unless in tight formation.

You should have routers periodically group tightly to try and resist lone pursuing units but suffer some serious combat penalties and then break when a large victorious enemy force comes close.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I agree with Katank, the units should attempt to defend themselves when attacked. It is just plain sad to see a group of Roman Praetorians run down by my fresh peltasts because I cannot spare hoplites or my hoplites are too tired to run them down.

[katank]

They should be extra vulnerable to morale stuff and also have combat penalties.

I remember description of a ruse in Napoleonic times where the cavalry pursuing would bring along infantry drums to convince the routing enemy infantry trying to form into squares to repel them that the victorious infantry were on hand to thrash them long after the infantry stopped pursuit.

[The Stranger]

many mods have tried to work on this...since the direction they run in (in a group) is hardcoded, modders have given routing units a little speed boost to try and give them a little bit better of a chance to get away. As it is now though, same thing...I just run about 99 percent of them down...

:charge:

nasty, thats why heavy cavalry outruns my light cavalry when routing

[The Stranger]

Ther is some logic in it... I mean... animals do it, they run in herds so they can't be singled out. Why can't routers?

eh cuz they are not as stupid in real life that they would turn around to their unit while they were actually safe. people understand that scattering in a large pack will be the safest way. also a lot of people wouldnt protect the "herd" while animals will

[The Stranger]

I agree with Katank, the units should attempt to defend themselves when attacked. It is just plain sad to see a group of Roman Praetorians run down by my fresh peltasts because I cannot spare hoplites or my hoplites are too tired to run them down.

yeah also the fighting to death thing doesnt always work, i saw 1000 units routing while trying to get past a triangle formation of armoured hoplites (i protected a bridge, the wrong way routing issue). while normal people would never do that.

btw routing means running from the battlefield, and not obeying orders. it doesnt mean getting overun by cavalry, not turn around but keep on running and get eliminated. and definitly not in a group.

[katank]

Now bridge battle routing is just stupid. Then again, rout phase is supposed to be major slaughter anyhow provided the winning side has cav. In battles, often 90+% of casualties occur after a side was broken.

[The Stranger]

true, but they still dont have to make it this easy. c'mon even an router with no brain wouldnt run into a line of spears. they are supposed to get away from it. a router will turn around and defend himself. but he will not get back to the battle or abey orders

[Zakor]

I've seen routing units stop routing before they leave the map, and come back ready to fight. It helps to be together at that stage.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think routers would run in large groups, it just feels safer, and fight if attacked, perhaps most of the unit would even turn to fight. The main problem is the game sees the routers as one group of men, while they should be individuals running for thier lives in a group, some turn to fight if attacked while the rest run and a few scatter. This would be much more realistic as it would allow both herding, a bit of scattering and the rear of a routing unit to fight pursuers and the front to continue to run away.

[The Stranger]

well that actually what i'm talking about. it makes no sense that the whole unit will come back, a few brave men ok, but the whole unit.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Well if encouraged or possibly threatened by officers and such they could probably get most of the unit to return to the fight. This is why the unit should be seen as a bunch of individuals, not a coherent whole. Course it is probably not going to happen for a long time because of hardware issues and likely coding difficulties, but it would be the best way to manage it IMO.

[The Stranger]

that would be cool, than you maybe get real warbands with mixed weapons and looks, and maybe even physical looks.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Exaclty, more individualized untis with realistic assortments of weaponry. Course to achieve this right now they would probably have to come up with a good 2D engine (not hard) and a good randomizer for the weapons and such. I highly doubt they woudl do that though, the 3D engine has probably gotten them many new players and I doubt they could manage it on most machines with a 3D engine.

[ScionTheWorm]

Exaclty, more individualized untis with realistic assortments of weaponry. Course to achieve this right now they would probably have to come up with a good 2D engine (not hard) and a good randomizer for the weapons and such. I highly doubt they woudl do that though, the 3D engine has probably gotten them many new players and I doubt they could manage it on most machines with a 3D engine.

Always dreamt about that, individuals making a unit with different appearence, height, and maybe even to some agree abilities. But not a chance when thinking about cpu performance...

it could be based on individuals like... the characters in the sims ~D even when reqruiting you will reqruit that individual from the town to your new unit. a game with 1000000 individuals would be great.. but i guess, very hard to make though

[The Stranger]

i could be done, but you'll need alot of space and a very high-tech computer to play the game