View Full Version : Why Would Anyone Have Kids?
PanzerJaeger
06-29-2005, 07:06
Why did the parents on the board choose to have kids, and why do the others who want kids want them?
I will never have kids for the following reasons:
1. They are an extreme responsibility. You have to care for them ALWAYS. They arent like a car you can put in the garage - no matter how sick or tire you are, you always have to be there for them.
2. Their trouble is your trouble. If your kid causes damage, you have to pay for it. If your kid commits a crime, your also at fault.
3. Teenage hatred. I didnt go through this, but it seems like most kids do. Parents spend all that time loving and caring for their kids, then when they get to a certain age the parents become the enemy. I cant count the times i saw some of my friends being complete jackasses because their parents didnt give them what the wanted.
4. Drugs, Alcohol, and Sex. So many awkward conversations.. so many chances for addictions or unwanted pregnancy!
5. Modern expectations. These days it seems like if parents dont buy their kids what the other kids have, they are the bad guys! Kids dont take into account that maybe daddy doesnt make as much as other daddies..
6. The cost. (This is the clincher) Do parents realize just how much money they devote to their kids? These days you're expected to buy the Xbox, the car at 16, and all the other assorted crap. Then when they get ready for college, youre supposed to magically come up with tens of thousands of dollars!
Im glad I was born of course, but I was a spoiled little brat. I cant understand why people would put up with the hassle of having kids. Of course you dont have to pay for anything and you can be a deadbeat parent, but then youre the bad guy in their eyes.
To me, having kids is a very bad investment. There is such a big pay in with a very low chance of return. Chances are when you get old they'll put you in a home anyway and visit you twice a year. :no:
By the way, that rant was brought to you and payed for by PanzerJager :goofy: .
Papewaio
06-29-2005, 07:32
Ask not want your children can do for you, ask what you can do for your children: Love.
1. They are an extreme responsibility. You have to care for them ALWAYS. They arent like a car you can put in the garage - no matter how sick or tire you are, you always have to be there for them.
Thats like bench pressing for character, bring it on.
2. Their trouble is your trouble. If your kid causes damage, you have to pay for it. If your kid commits a crime, your also at fault.
You don't stretch for a workout you leave with injuries. Their trouble will be my trouble. So it is in my best interests to prepare them thoroughly.
3. Teenage hatred. I didnt go through this, but it seems like most kids do. Parents spend all that time loving and caring for their kids, then when they get to a certain age the parents become the enemy. I cant count the times i saw some of my friends being complete jackasses because their parents didnt give them what the wanted.
Karma, I gave it out, about time I got it back with interest for the time inbetween. Often this enemy stage is because the lack of communication and trust in the years before. Of course if the kids love you too much they will never leave home (I left at age 26 ~D )
4. Drugs, Alcohol, and Sex. So many awkward conversations.. so many chances for addictions or unwanted pregnancy!
Honesty and Education. I knew about the birds and the bees at about age 4, pretty standard for a farm kid. I choose not to drink until I was 22.
5. Modern expectations. These days it seems like if parents dont buy their kids what the other kids have, they are the bad guys! Kids dont take into account that maybe daddy doesnt make as much as other daddies..
As a parent I intend on giving love with time and attention not through throwing toys at the person. I was relatively poor when my wife married me, the relationship there is based on respect, trust and communication not the car I drive (at the time it was rollar blades). Same with kids, be a parent first and build that respect and trust and communication (these are the foundation of love and friendship IMDHO). Teach kids responsibility and consequences for their actions.
6. The cost. (This is the clincher) Do parents realize just how much money they devote to their kids? These days you're expected to buy the Xbox, the car at 16, and all the other assorted crap. Then when they get ready for college, youre supposed to magically come up with tens of thousands of dollars!
There is always a cost in doing something. There is also a cost in not doing something. Money is not the real cost in a relationship, nor should it be the basis of that with your child. Time is a cost, but why not devote oneself to helping another person grow into a good, emotionally developed, mannered individual?
Why would I buy them a car? From the age of 18 I had to pay a board (nominal, more of a reminder that I was living at home under the good graces of my parents) and anything extra that I needed I had to borrow the money at their current mortgage/credit card rate. I used, I payed back (and you think you are a conservative pfft!). So I also worked in metalshops and deli's to pay for my expenses through uni.
(BTW college is 'free' in Australia so that isn't an issue, if you go to Uni it adds a certain amount of debt that you pay off as an extra tax when you hit a certain tax threshold. So currently not a worry... except I am still paying it off grrrr.)
Byzantine Prince
06-29-2005, 07:42
=PanzerJager
Why did the parents on the board choose to have kids, and why do the others who want kids want them?
Panzer, wanting to have kids isn't something most people want or dream of when they are young like you and me. After you focus on a career or something that eventually makes you feel empty a child is exactly what the doctor ordered.
It's not easy paying for one, it's a lot of responsibility and a lot of trouble but if you do it right it'll make you feel better then anything ever before. Not that I know anything about those things, I'm only 18 afterall, but I can put myself in a 35-45 year olds shoes and imagine that it would be pretty depressing and a ffeling of emptiness without a child to take care of.
Another reason is the legacy. You have to leave something behind in this world in case a medicine that makes you immortal isn't anywhere in sight. :book:
Think of it as a garden. Why would anyone want a garden? They can just buy whatever they want from specialty stores. It's that feeling of growing something by yourself that makes all the difference. I hope this is a good analogy.
!BP! :egypt:
Tribesman
06-29-2005, 08:17
Why did the parents on the board choose to have kids
I never wanted children , my wife was supposed to never be able to have children .
It just shows how wrong some people can be , I wouldn't change it for anything now .
With any luck I hope we have a pile more of them ~:)
To me, having kids is a very bad investment. There is such a big pay in with a very low chance of return. Chances are when you get old they'll put you in a home anyway and visit you twice a year.
Be happy in your old age Panzer , if you view young lives in the terms of a cash investment you are going to be living a very empty life .
Besides which send your kids to work , it was good enough for me , and my father and his father , teach them a level of financial independance and responsibility from an early age .
I always wanted kids, I guess partly for the companionship. As a I child, I enjoyed the warmth of family life and wanted to recreate that atmosphere.
It also helps that I still retain many "childish" interests that I can share with my son. Disney films, dinosaurs, MacDonalds restaurents, Lord of the Rings, computer games... it's all good.
The responsibility is there, but rather like John Stuart Mill said, I think we need concerns that are greater than us to give us enjoyable and worthwhile lives. Also, I have a rather limited view of parental responsibility - my job is to help nurture an honorable young man; when he hits adulthood, I'll have succeeded if he is responsible.
The monetary cost is also real, but what else are you going to use money for? You can't take it with you when you go.
English assassin
06-29-2005, 09:52
Being honest for most people its not really a classically economically rational decision to have kids or not. "Hmm, in 20 years time, would I rather spend that money on university fees, or on a cruise..."
To add to what has been said above, it is huge fun. Of course its a commitment and a responsibility but taking on commitment and responsibility is what being an adult is about. Speaking personnally, I didn't even realise a part of my life was missing until I had kids and suddenly, there it was. Sure, now we have to take holidays on steam railways and beaches (not really my thing) instead of flying off to Peru, but their fun is my fun.
And for a jaded cynic like me seeing the word through the eyes of a two year old is very illuminating. When was the last time YOU got excited because you did a pee in the toilet? (A long time ago I hope and trust)
Also I now feel part of something bigger, in a way that is hard to describe. You feel closer to all the people who have lived before and all the people who will come after, and see yourself as just a link in the chain not as the summit of human existence.
But then again, if you don't want em. don't have em. Its not compulsory after all.
I didn't but as I told you all before my ex got pregnant anyway.
She just had a misscariage so I 've been 'spared' that responsibility.
Not sure how to feel, just feel numb.
Franconicus
06-29-2005, 10:59
Because it is great. Best thing ever happened to me. Children are the joy of your life when you are young and your hope when you are old. They teach you humility and modesty. Go and get you some, Panzer!
:baby: :cry2: :hair2: :medievalcheers:
English assassin
06-29-2005, 11:14
I didn't but as I told you all before my ex got pregnant anyway.
She just had a misscariage so I 've been 'spared' that responsibility.
Not sure how to feel, just feel numb.
Wow, you are going through the mill. Bad luck
I never wanted kids. But I got two in a package deal.
Granted, kids are extremely difficult at (many) times. There are also those golden moments when you take the training wheels off the bike and teach her to ride by herself. or when you taught her to play chess, when you saw the rings of Saturn together, or when she's scared and she clings to you like Saran Wrap trusting that you will protect her.
You'd swear moments like that almost make up for the horror. ~D
Ser Clegane
06-29-2005, 11:40
the horror
Like that drawer story, eh? :fainting: ~;)
bmolsson
06-29-2005, 12:26
I have 4 kids and none of them is planned. So the only reason I have kids is the fact that I can't pull out in time....... ~;)
Papewaio did an execellent job of answering the question :bow:
Why have kids?
Well the question I would ask is why would one not want to have kids?
You will find your answer in the negative about why one should want to have a child if possible.
Kagemusha
06-29-2005, 13:44
I want to have kids because i simply love them. ~:)
Franconicus
06-29-2005, 13:51
I want to have kids because i simply love them. ~:)
kagemusha-san,
That is the whole truth. You are the philosopher :bow:
Sjakihata
06-29-2005, 13:59
PJ - dont look at it like an investment, look at it as a very cheap golden treasure.
Kagemusha
06-29-2005, 14:05
kagemusha-san,
That is the whole truth. You are the philosopher :bow:
Thank you. Franconicus-san. :bow:
t1master
06-29-2005, 14:58
:balloon2:
the joy in my daughters eyes when she discovers something new is all the reason i need.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-29-2005, 15:47
I have 4 kids and none of them is planned. So the only reason I have kids is the fact that I can't pull out in time.......
Do they all have the same mother ? You do have a harem do you not? ~D
The Blind King of Bohemia
06-29-2005, 15:49
I'm a big enough kid anyway! Looking after a child would be too much man ~D
Too much responsibility and would leave your pockets empty. Not for me thanks :devilish:
Gawain of Orkeny
06-29-2005, 15:50
Why for tax breaks and to get a bigger welfare check of course. ~:)
Taffy_is_a_Taff
06-29-2005, 15:58
my younger relatives are incredibly sweet and entertaining so I want kids of my own sometime in the next 10 years or so.
PanzerJaeger
06-29-2005, 16:02
Wow, those are some great answers. The benefits of parenthood seem to be in the intangible aspects of the child/parent relationship.
I certainly wouldnt be a good parent, but I do understand a little better why others choose to have children. Its not such a crazy idea afterall. ~:cheers:
UglyandHasty
06-29-2005, 16:23
Me and my wife are going to be proud parents of a boy in mid-august. He is going to be our first child, and believe me he is expected. If things go well for Mary my wife, we plan to have 3 to 4 child. Why ? Because we love them, even when they are not ours. Oh we know whats coming. We know we have harder time ahead of us. But we will cope with anything. We want to see our child grow, and give them the best life and education we can. It might be modest in regard of what some people might be able to provide, but these child will be loved. But its easy to speak now, ask me again in a few years ~D
t1master
06-29-2005, 16:42
whoohooo!
hiya fred!
mary is my daughter's name :)
Steppe Merc
06-29-2005, 16:42
I always wondered the same thing PJ, so it's not just you. ~;)
My main thing was that I can't stand most little kids, as most of the ones running around are loud, smelly and obnixous...
PJ, having kids is an absurd amount of work. You invest mountains of time and money for a dubious return. So what?
Writing a book is a huge effort, with a dubious return. Composing a symphony is a huge effort. Being a painter is a huge effort. Becoming an athelete is a huge effort. Mastering chemistry is a huge effort.
Anything worth doing is a massive undertaking, and if you let that frighten you off, you're not going to get anything interesting done.
Gawain of Orkeny
06-29-2005, 17:35
Hey PJ why dont you ask your parents that question? ~D
Bye the way Hasty old mate congrats. I remember when you were single. ~;)
PanzerJaeger
06-29-2005, 17:45
After the stunts my brother has pulled, im sure they would advise against kids. :dizzy2:
Al Khalifah
06-29-2005, 18:00
So you have a ready supply of high-potential organ donors for your old age.
Byzantine Prince
06-29-2005, 18:09
=PanzerJager
I certainly wouldnt be a good parent, but I do understand a little better why others choose to have children.
You're too young to be a parent. If you had kids now you wouldn't have any fun in life. Oh and you wouldn't post here as much because the real world would be too demnding.
Its not such a crazy idea afterall. ~:cheers:
People change over time or even experiences. One year ago I was a completely different person. Hell yesterday I was a different person. Tommorow=?
The Scourge
06-29-2005, 18:41
Also I now feel part of something bigger, in a way that is hard to describe. You feel closer to all the people who have lived before and all the people who will come after, and see yourself as just a link in the chain not as the summit of human existence.
.
I like that . ~:cheers:
PanzerJaeger
06-29-2005, 19:23
So you have a ready supply of high-potential organ donors for your old age.
:laugh4:
People change over time or even experiences. One year ago I was a completely different person. Hell yesterday I was a different person. Tommorow=?
A NeoCon! Get in while its hot man, all the cool people are doing it.. ~;)
UglyandHasty
06-29-2005, 19:59
Thanks G
Tim, i saw a pick of Mary M. already ~;) Nice girl !
Goofball
06-29-2005, 22:58
There was a study released in Canada yesterday that ties the fact that our property crime rate is down by over 20% over the last ten years to the fact that the 15 to 24 year-old demographic is much smaller now than it was then due to declining birth rates in Canada.
There you have it:
We should all stop having kids, they only increase the crime rate.
PanzerJaeger
06-29-2005, 23:14
See, im sacrificing for the civic good. ~;)
Big King Sanctaphrax
06-29-2005, 23:59
I always wondered the same thing PJ, so it's not just you. ~;)
My main thing was that I can't stand most little kids, as most of the ones running around are loud, smelly and obnixous...
Yep, that's my problem too. I just find kids unpleasant, boring and a chore to be around. I imagine if I met ten year-old me, I'd hate him.
I can't get over how ugly they are as babies, either.
Steppe Merc
06-30-2005, 00:06
Exactly. If I met myself at almost any age before around sophmore year I'd hate myself, because I was such a loser. I also don't have too many little cousins or, mainly older ones, so it's not like I know many little kids that I care for.
I guess most of the kids are so annoying because their parent's can't control them. I also end up yelling at little kids in the movie theater or in the restraunt to shut up, which sort of makes me look heartless... oh well. ~;)
I come from a "family" (and I use that word lightly as it was broken three times), by parents who thought more about themselves than us. One parent thought it was good for me, that I got whacked around the head by my stepfather (who she eventually divorced - due to domestic violence), because I made the coffee wrong, (I also got shot at and hit, because he thought it was funny to his friends). Another thought it was a good thing to leave us and go to another country (and have more kids) and abandon us with the other for the rest of our childhood & teenage lives (then subsequently divorced that one and abandoned them as well ... some even went to prison)
I resolved that, I would never have children unless I could provide a stable (own home) and loving a environment. Due to our careers, I found myself and my wife moving from city to city with promotions and redundancies, new employers, etc. When things seemed to eventually settle down, we were too old to consider them.
We now have what we call "Rent-a-Kids", from our brothers and sisters. We spoil them and give them our love and have resolved that should anything happen to us in the future we will give our estate to them in "trust" until they are 21.
Therefore if you decide to have kids, make sure you can provide a stable and loving environment to watch them grow and enjoy them and the rewards you get will far outweigh any costs of money and time spent otherwise they will end up as "cynical" and self-interested as me.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
06-30-2005, 03:21
The university thing is easy. Put a bit of cash in a fund before the kid is born, and add a bit every year or so. My Dad started with about 100 bucks or so in my university fund. He's at over 70 000 Canadian now.
bmolsson
06-30-2005, 03:49
Do they all have the same mother ? You do have a harem do you not? ~D
Sure, a man got to do what a man got to do.... ~;)
Big_John
06-30-2005, 04:01
from a biological perspective, one would have children because that is, in essence, what we are designed to do. practically, your children are vessels for your genes. your individual nature can be, in some sense, carried forth into the future long after you are dead. why should anyone want to have their genes competing in the pools of the future? that depends on the person, i suppose.
personally, i don't know if i want kids or not. i'm not an especially responsible guy.
KafirChobee
06-30-2005, 06:14
Why did the parents on the board choose to have kids, and why do the others who want kids want them?
I will never have kids ....etc .
Why did I sigh with relief when I saw this? :shrug: :grin:
Thread necromancy! But in a good cause! There's a whole string of articles/blog posts on the pros and cons of having kids, and I could think of no better place to put them. To wit:
The case against happiness (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/06/the-case-against-happiness/58719/)
The breeder's cup (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704289504575313201221533826.html)
Children and happiness (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/children-and-happiness/)
Reasons not to have more (http://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/06/selfish-reasons-not-to-have-more-kids/58409/)
Case against good parenting (http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/06/21/the_libertarian_case_against_good_parenting/index.html)
Parental happiness overrated (http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/06/maybe-parental-happiness-is-overrated.html)
Sasaki Kojiro
07-02-2010, 01:05
Yeah, it seems like a huge gamble to me. They aren't little blank slates.
Megas Methuselah
07-02-2010, 02:15
Because...
WE DON'T DIE, WE MULTIPLY!!!!!
History has proven that, and is continuing to do so. By 2045, more than 1/3 of Saskatchewan and Manitoba will be Aboriginal. We are not a mere footnote in history, my brothers.
seireikhaan
07-02-2010, 02:51
Hmm. Part of me wants, some day, to have a kid or two. Probably so I could give them things I didn't have- I didn't get a car at 16, didn't get most of the nice luxuries my friends did, and lived most of my childhood with my dad in whichever apartment he was in at the time, spending most of my time by myself since he had to work two jobs to pay the bills. That part of me wants said future children to grow up less cynical, more friendly and warm. But then, my cynical, arrogant, and somewhat jealous nature looks to all the kids I knew in high school who didn't have a care in the world- dad earning plenty of income, mother free to stay home and care for the children, if she so desired, all their wants and needs desired- and declare them, on a 95% rate to be unfit people.
So I dunno, I guess is what I'm saying. Either way, its for a later time in life.
Viking Prince
07-02-2010, 07:08
Why does a writer toil to create the great novel? Why does a painter strive for the masterpiece? We are by nature a creative species desiring for some sense of immortality. We are happiest when we are the most challanged in our creative endevors. Thus we have children because the process makes us happy and is some sense immortal.
History has proven that, and is continuing to do so. By 2045, more than 1/3 of Saskatchewan and Manitoba will be Aboriginal. We are not a mere footnote in history, my brothers.
Yes, okay, fine! For the love of God, man, what are you trying to convince us of? Also, isn't there a contradiction in saying that in 2045 1/3rd of the people living there will be aboriginals? In my opinion, anyone born and raised in a country is an aboriginal.
Great timing Lemur. You simply had to resurrect this thread, now, hmmm.... :mean:
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-02-2010, 09:26
Because...
WE DON'T DIE, WE MULTIPLY!!!!!
History has proven that, and is continuing to do so. By 2045, more than 1/3 of Saskatchewan and Manitoba will be Aboriginal. We are not a mere footnote in history, my brothers.
If you say so, you do know that 73.5% of statistics are misleading though?
Vladimir
07-02-2010, 12:48
For the magazines?
I think the real question is, can you get it as a package deal with some other mags? 'Cause I think between the AQ monthly and, say, NAMBLA Bulletin, I could be real popular with my neighbors.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/NAMBLA_253.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/illustration.jpg
rory_20_uk
07-02-2010, 13:03
UNless you have a child, you don't really understand.
My son is the only thing I love unconditionally, and would do anything for I would cheerfully put his happiness above my own. I would view life as pointless without children.
Money is a tool, not an end. Kids do require a lot of money. But what point is money sitting in the bank account?
~:smoking:
Don Corleone
07-02-2010, 13:07
Wow, and here I thought a bunch of ghosts had come back to the Org. What would have really nailed it would have been resurrecting it on Father's Day. :beam:
Cute Wolf
07-02-2010, 13:12
yeah, any good kids will care for their parents in the old age... I wonder what PJ feels when he post that thread... 5 years ago...
*. Did he allready have some kids running arround now?
Rhyfelwyr
07-02-2010, 17:47
Took me a while to realise the thread date. It was surreal watching Tribesman reply so civily to PJ, without uttering the word bollox once!
Since PJ's still around, I'll give my thoughts on the OP. At first I would have been very much against having kids, but now I'm not so sure, I'm not the type of person that is going to want to travel the world or use my cash to live in luxury instead. Anyway, I don't think it's as bad as the OP makes out.
1. They are an extreme responsibility. You have to care for them ALWAYS. They arent like a car you can put in the garage - no matter how sick or tire you are, you always have to be there for them.
Not meaning to troll but didn't women used to care for kids themselves? I don't see how it can be a full time job for two parents (awaits massive flaming), I think there is a lot of nonsense these days like when dads are supposed to sit and play with their kids before they can walk.
2. Their trouble is your trouble. If your kid causes damage, you have to pay for it. If your kid commits a crime, your also at fault.
How often do most kids get into any sort of serious trouble? Most of the time when kids to get into trouble they have the kind of parents that dont' care much anyway. The worst things I've done are just stupid things like smashing a window with a football or something.
3. Teenage hatred. I didnt go through this, but it seems like most kids do. Parents spend all that time loving and caring for their kids, then when they get to a certain age the parents become the enemy. I cant count the times i saw some of my friends being complete jackasses because their parents didnt give them what the wanted.
I didn't do the whole teenage rebellion thing either, I think that only happens when parents don't get the right balance when they need to give their kids more independence. I got no independence (from about 12+, actually got plenty before then, but my mum had problems with stress, half the staff at her work have taken fullblown nervous brakedowns), but just spent my time gaming so it wasn't an issue. My brother though rebelled a lot, eventually he got his way, and now the youngest brother gets independence, and people get on fine mostly.
4. Drugs, Alcohol, and Sex. So many awkward conversations.. so many chances for addictions or unwanted pregnancy!
My parents never said anything to me of these things (praise the Lord!), and I never got involved in any of them, even now when I have independence to do what I like. Alcohol was a problem for some of my friends, leading to suspensions and explusion from school for one guy, but by that age it was clear where they were going with life so not really their parents problem much anyway.
5. Modern expectations. These days it seems like if parents dont buy their kids what the other kids have, they are the bad guys! Kids dont take into account that maybe daddy doesnt make as much as other daddies..
Only the really spoilt brats are like that, upper-middle class types etc, and even then I would think they are still the minority. My brothers go to a private school, which I went to for a while, but they both accept that we're not as well off as most other people there and can't get all the latest stuff. And no chance of a car for a birthday. :no:
You really could tell the difference though between the really rich ones and the ones that got in on the cheap (due to involvement in the military, there's a massive naval base nearby). Most kids aren't spoilt brats.
6. The cost. (This is the clincher) Do parents realize just how much money they devote to their kids? These days you're expected to buy the Xbox, the car at 16, and all the other assorted crap. Then when they get ready for college, youre supposed to magically come up with tens of thousands of dollars!
Living in Scotland I get free university education. :biggrin:
Plus I never got assorted crap, I don't have a mobile or an ipod or CD's or fancy clothes (actually my parents tell me I look like a tramp). I never purchased anything beyond 50 quid probably before I got my student loan, then I got a PS3. :yes:
Although maybe you should see it as an investment, they can afford more to put you in a nicer care home when you are older, which you couldn't have afforded yourself.
What would have really nailed it would have been resurrecting it on Father's Day. :beam:
Apologies; I don't know what inspired me to go browsing in the oldest threads on the board, but the spirit moved me. And this particular thread seemed to have relevance to a seris of articles I had recently read, and so on and so forth. I try not to commit necromancy for no good reason.
Vladimir
07-02-2010, 18:34
I consider it more of a hobby.
https://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8922/necromancy.jpg (https://img697.imageshack.us/i/necromancy.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (https://imageshack.us)
Most kids aren't spoilt brats.
Technically speaking I agree. Spoilt brats get that way for a reason, poor parenting. I have a mate who was spoilt beyond imagination, but he didn't end up a brat. Then again I have friends who are your typical distinctly middle class brats who get what they want, whenever they want.
4. Drugs, Alcohol, and Sex. So many awkward conversations.. so many chances for addictions or unwanted pregnancy!My parents never said anything to me of these things (praise the Lord!), and I never got involved in any of them
Can't ignore them though. I likewise never really got any major direct talks from the parentals on the major stuff, and looking back on it I would have appreciated it. Teenage years are challenging times, and just some words, awkward as they would have been would have been appreciated. I think the most I got was, "You're growing up and pr0n may appeal to you, but it's demeaning to women, so don't." and "If you want to smoke you have to pay for it."
PanzerJaeger
07-02-2010, 21:13
Wow, can't believe it's been so long. We've lost a lot of greats over the years. Gained some too, though, so I guess it evens out.
Good articles, Lemur.
yeah, any good kids will care for their parents in the old age... I wonder what PJ feels when he post that thread... 5 years ago...
*. Did he allready have some kids running arround now?
Nope, no kids. I feel a bit more mature five years later, but I haven't changed my position at all. Well, maybe a little. It's less about a cost/benefit analysis these days and more about my personal happiness. I just don't see kids having a positive effect on it. Selfish? Definitely. But if there is one area in life where we get to be selfish, it's in our choices in procreation.
And thanks, Rhyfelwyr for the response. I don't really feel like defending a five year old post point by point, but you made lots of good ones.
KukriKhan
07-03-2010, 02:25
When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.
Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-03-2010, 02:36
Wow, and here I thought a bunch of ghosts had come back to the Org. What would have really nailed it would have been resurrecting it on Father's Day. :beam:
Nice to see you back, Godfather. Hope it isn't too much of a fluke -- you were part of the charm of the Backroom when I joined.
A lot of other names from times past have wandered into the Dojo II thread -- people with 199X in their join-dates even.
a completely inoffensive name
07-03-2010, 03:44
This wave of the old members scare me. Although I never take into account how old someone is when I debate/argue. I've learned that age is not indicative of wisdom.
Anyway, back on topic, I personally don't plan on having kids until I'm at least 28 or 29. I want a built up career, a solid financial foundation to fund the kids properly, and life experience from a decade of enjoying life before I feel I would be ready to properly nurture and raise a kid.
Cute Wolf
07-03-2010, 03:56
This wave of the old members scare me. Although I never take into account how old someone is when I debate/argue. I've learned that age is not indicative of wisdom.
Anyway, back on topic, I personally don't plan on having kids until I'm at least 28 or 29. I want a built up career, a solid financial foundation to fund the kids properly, and life experience from a decade of enjoying life before I feel I would be ready to properly nurture and raise a kid.
well, maybe I'm the one who planned to getting married as soon as I finish the doctorate degree, or even sooner..... :clown:
oh yeah, it will be sooner when my parents decide that I should bring a wife when I was studying aboard in Europe... (typical Chinese conservative)
rory_20_uk
07-03-2010, 10:21
When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.
Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.
When women are young, life is good. Go anywhere, do anything. Have a great time. Being female means male attention almost without effort. For the truly mercenary there are older men who are married.
Kids? Plenty of time... Focus on fun / career.
Then age ticks by. Often it is the 30th that makes many settle down into realising that they have to meet Mr Right, have a relationship and then a family. Risk of Down's: 1 in 1,000. By 35, 1 in 500. By 40 1 in 150. Not to mention falling fertility, and other risk factors.
Men are also, damn them, so superficial. What was great as a 20 year old isn't so great when you're competing against 20 year olds.
Men have the ability to have children into their 60's, if not a hell of a lot later. Impotence used to put an end to it can now be overcome. Deep down there is not the biological clock getting louder and louder. Being an older man can also be viewed as attractive. Women place far more on money (security) than men do - in fact men are unhappy as a rule when they earn less than their wives / partners. Having children late shows you are fertile, not a sick old crone. Having a wife more junior is also more acceptable.
~:smoking:
KukriKhan
07-03-2010, 13:35
Kids? Plenty of time... Focus on fun / career.
Then age ticks by...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=36838497
When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.
Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.
It should be noted that these are mere estimates. My sister-in-law is almost 23 and she's had baby fever since she married my brother, 2 years ago (and she's pregnant). My actual sister wanted to have kids at 25. She'll be 25 soon and she's got 2. :laugh4:
Don Corleone
07-04-2010, 13:35
Nice to see you back, Godfather. Hope it isn't too much of a fluke -- you were part of the charm of the Backroom when I joined.
A lot of other names from times past have wandered into the Dojo II thread -- people with 199X in their join-dates even.
It's the very subject matter of this topic, the presence of my 4 year old and 2 year old miracles that requires my absence. Happy to sneak in when I can though.
I'll have to check out the DojoII thread. Too bad Creative Assembly isn't living up to their name and is re-treading all the old titles. Couldn't they just watch Ultimate Warrior for some ideas?
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
07-04-2010, 17:13
I hate how people think if you don't want children, you must be a bad person, irresponsible adult,etc....
Look at my Aunt and Uncle. They in their mid 50's, hardworking, don't have kids, because they just.... didn't want them. They not irresponsible, are they? Nope.
I can't stand the thought of having children.
Megas Methuselah
07-04-2010, 18:54
I can't stand the thought of having children.
Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either. :thinking:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
07-04-2010, 21:52
Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either. :thinking:
:thumbsdown:
You live on through your children, as such, having children is a step to becoming immortal.
Otherways include doing something so horrible, no one will ever forget you.
rory_20_uk
07-04-2010, 22:13
Fritzel took the logical conclusion: have children with your children! Further generations, and no one is likely to forget that any time soon.
~:smoking:
a completely inoffensive name
07-05-2010, 00:12
Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either. :thinking:
If my children just played video games, I would be SOOOOOOOOOOO happy. The perfect scenario for me would be children who are intelligent, work hard at their studies and don't subscribe to raves, parties, drinking, and ughh... grinding.
My wife is now 6 and a half month pregnant.
A while ago, I held my hand on her belly and suddenly, I felt something kicking. It was amazing. Nowadays, the baby responds to my voice very well. When I talk to my wife's belly (yes, talking to a belly looks ridiculous; it looks even more ridiculous when you make silly sounds) while holding my hand on it, I get rewarded with lots of kicks (or punches). It's a fantastic experience and I could spend hours doing just that. Can't wait to hold the little one.
Three weeks ago, we had a 3D echo and we could see the face of our child. Amazing what modern technique can do nowadays :2thumbsup:
My wife is now 6 and a half month pregnant.
A while ago, I held my hand on her belly and suddenly, I felt something kicking. It was amazing. Nowadays, the baby responds to my voice very well. When I talk to my wife's belly (yes, talking to a belly looks ridiculous; it looks even more ridiculous when you make silly sounds) while holding my hand on it, I get rewarded with lots of kicks (or punches). It's a fantastic experience and I could spend hours doing just that. Can't wait to hold the little one.
Three weeks ago, we had a 3D echo and we could see the face of our child. Amazing what modern technique can do nowadays :2thumbsup:
I always found that babies always look like bald miniature sumo wrestlers.
rory_20_uk
07-05-2010, 09:45
Until it's your own. Other babies still look odd, but your own is a small angel (possibly not when going puce from yelling...)
Not convinced about 3d USS scans. Some reports say that the energy they require could be dangerous. Since they served no prognostic use, We went with the 2D ones.
~:smoking:
Until it's your own. Other babies still look odd, but your own is a small angel (possibly not when going puce from yelling...)
Not convinced about 3d USS scans. Some reports say that the energy they require could be dangerous. Since they served no prognostic use, We went with the 2D ones.
~:smoking:
I'm not going to argue with the doc; he should know what he's doing :shrug:
3D echo's are very common here.
rory_20_uk
07-05-2010, 10:44
I think it's my paranoia more than anything else.
I viewed the risk:benefit as tiny:none and hence didn't do it.
If there was any proven harm beyond theoretical risk it'd have been uniformly scrapped.
~:smoking:
Love kids. I am really good with them as well, bit of a child myself. I will certainly hatch some offspring but not now, 40 or so seems a good age to start considering it. But first I have to find someone willing to sleep with me.
Strike For The South
07-05-2010, 18:41
as much as i would love to jetset across the world having crazy sex with my insanely hot wife. I have resolved the fact that one day I will wake up, be 40 and wonder what the hell these tiny midgets are doing jumping on me.....maybe not as fun as sex on a bed of cavair and romanion orphans but probably more fufilling
Sasaki Kojiro
07-07-2010, 19:18
Here's another article which I don't think has been posted:
http://nymag.com/print/?/news/features/67024/
"All joy and no fun"
Very well written, I think it brings up the key point:
This finding seems significant. Technically, if parenting makes you unhappy, you should feel better if you’re spared the task of doing it. But if happiness is measured by our own sense of agency and meaning, then noncustodial parents lose. They’re robbed of something that gives purpose and reward.
When I mention this to Daniel Gilbert, he hardly disputes that meaning is important. But he does wonder how prominently it should figure into people’s decisions to have kids. “When you pause to think what children mean to you, of course they make you feel good,” he says. “The problem is, 95 percent of the time, you’re not thinking about what they mean to you. You’re thinking that you have to take them to piano lessons. So you have to think about which kind of happiness you’ll be consuming most often. Do you want to maximize the one you experience almost all the time”—moment-to-moment happiness—“or the one you experience rarely?”
Which is fair enough. But for many of us, purpose is happiness—particularly those of us who find moment-to-moment happiness a bit elusive to begin with. Martin Seligman, the positive-psychology pioneer who is, famously, not a natural optimist, has always taken the view that happiness is best defined in the ancient Greek sense: leading a productive, purposeful life. And the way we take stock of that life, in the end, isn’t by how much fun we had, but what we did with it. (Seligman has seven children.)
“I think this boils down to a philosophical question, rather than a psychological one,” says Gilovich. “Should you value moment-to-moment happiness more than retrospective evaluations of your life?” He says he has no answer for this, but the example he offers suggests a bias. He recalls watching TV with his children at three in the morning when they were sick. “I wouldn’t have said it was too fun at the time,” he says. “But now I look back on it and say, ‘Ah, remember the time we used to wake up and watch cartoons?’ ” The very things that in the moment dampen our moods can later be sources of intense gratification, nostalgia, delight.
But I'm not quite sure the question is really moment-to-moment happiness vs retrospective satisfaction. Our beliefs about what gives our life purpose are a huge part of this. People who believe life is pointless without children are going to need them. But is that belief really hardcoded? Children seem to be the most obvious source of meaning for life, but that doesn't mean you can't find life satisfaction elsewhere if you navigate the philosophical waters successfully. And if in doing so you end up with a retrospectively satisfying life that also makes you happy on a moment-to-moment basis...
Yes, those same moment-to-moment also on reflection upset up.
"I wish I studied instead of partying all night getting drunk"
"I wish I didn't sleep with all those women as a ski instructor and get syphilis"
etc
I guess I'll add my 2 cents to the "To have or not to have" debate. Prior to my daughter's birth I was pretty sure I knew what life was about, what mattered, what didn't matter, etc. Then she showed up and showed me that I knew nothing. I thought I knew life, I thought I knew love, but prior to her I really didn't. It was like the whole world was flipped upside down and nothing was ever the same again. Things that used to be important became meaningless, things that weren't anywhere near my mind became paramount. Back when she was about a year old or so she got really sick at one point (caught a very nasty strain of stomach flu), bad enough that we had to take her to the hospital. So there we were, my wife and I, sitting by her bed while she was laying there dehydrated, whimpering and barely able to breathe. At one point I excused myself, left the room they were in, walked out into the hallway and for about five minutes or so cried like a baby. She's five now, healthy, smart, cheerful, beautiful. She is one person on the face of this Earth for whom I would kill and die without hesitation.
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