Aleins

[Abokasee]

Have you spotted Aleins of any sorts? heard of you or your friends but adubted? saw a UFO got web links to goverment of any kind info which has been leaked out? saw aleins? killed em? anything to do with aleins post HERE infact i have seen em too..


I was at school my friend jason sayed that has "channel 5" and there was something about aleins some 30, 23 years ago which killed 6 people blown some cars up they looked like people standing up and had three arms and they had lasers which looked like shotguns and there heads looked like ants.

that same day i saw one a white one it wasnt armed it was in a corner hiding some how i went a lil closer then it was gone, we place a ball there, 45 secs later the ball was some where else the had moved it.... ~:eek: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :alien: :sneaky: :sneaky: :pleased:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You left out probably the number one choice. That being either I dont know or Im not sure.

[King of Atlantis]

depends on what you consider aliens. I believe they found dead bacteria on a rock that came from mars. Other than that i dont really know, but they probably exist somewhere.

[Abokasee]

note: if you vote you must post!

[InsaneApache]

I saw some Cantonese working in a Chinese take away near me....does that count?....... :bow: ~D

[Don Corleone]

I can't imagine we're the only intelligent lifeform out there. That being said, I have no knowledge of the existence of any lifeforms.

I don't believe in abductions. I can't believe there's a species out there that's intelligent enough to cross interstellar distances that wouldn't be able to monitor us without having to come down and and abduct us. And even if they did, they'd be smart enough that there wouldn't be any recolleciton/record of it. I mean, it's like they're a bunch of boobs that can't get the whole secret part of secret abduction down right.

My hypothesis is that there's at least one, possibly several species out there intelligent enough to come visit and monitor us. However, I believe they realize the cataclysmic affects this would have on our society and have placed us under a quarantine of sorts. The Prime Directive just makes too much sense.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Then again theres the theory that the aliens are already here and their called..................Man

[Big_John]

depends on what you consider aliens. I believe they found dead bacteria on a rock that came from mars.i've actually looked at ALH84001, the putative 'bacteria' are quite unconvincing. i think it's certainly possible that mars once harbored life, but i don't think we have any evidence for that. the only thing the theory really has going for it is that the shape and size of some of the supposed fossils are similar to earth nanobacteria. by itself, that's not much.

personally, i have no information upon which to base an assumption about aliens. an "i don't know" from me as well.

[Duke Malcolm]

Aliens? I see them all the time. They own most newsagents in my area and do damned fine food.

Oh... You mean aliens from space, not foreigners...

I can't say I've seen many, but I'm sure that their existence is inevitable...

Edit: Accidentally clicked the "saw them" option...

[caesar44]

It is not a question of belief but of proofs

[Divinus Arma]

Or in other words, "Do you agree with any concept of extraterrestrial life, especially intelligent extraterrestrial life?" I agree that it is not a question of beliefs.

I think that it is logical to conclude that there exists extraterrestrial life. Any notion beyond that is science fiction until evidence leads to new logic. I cannot conclude that we have been contacted, probed in the butt, abducted, etc, until reasonable evidence other than Jack Johnny Smith from a Kentucky trailer park saying so. Maybe they pick their victims for this exact purpose: "Hey if we abduct a redneck and ass rape him, no one will ever believe him when we drop him off half-naked outside his favorite strip club!"

In all seriousness, sure I do. I think it would exciting and amazing to have more evolved life 'take us under the wing' so to speak. There are probably many different species of ETs also.

But it raises the question: Did Jesus die for the Aliens sins, too? If not, then they either go to hell or go nowhere just like animals. Unless they had their own Jesus. But then Jesus would not be the "only" son then, huh? Heehee. Mixing religion with Aliens is fun!

[Big_John]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but i'd like to know one thing; all of you who believe that extraterrestrial life is likely, what is your basis for that belief?

[Viking]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but i'd like to know one thing; all of you who believe that extraterrestrial life is likely, what is your basis for that belief?

Logic.
It is so extremely unlikely that Earth is the only planet in the unverse with life.
Intelligent life though, don`t necesarily have to exist.

[Big_John]

Logic.
It is so extremely unlikely that Earth is the only planet in the unverse with life.why is it extremely unlikely?

[Divinus Arma]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but i'd like to know one thing; all of you who believe that extraterrestrial life is likely, what is your basis for that belief?

I think there arw two defining categories that answer this for everyone (I think):

(1) Religion. Usually, and I say usually, the very religious are more inclined to accept the notion that human beings are divinely created and thus the only being worthy enough to be intelligent. The religious also seem to favor the notion that the earth and humans have a specific purpose for god (what that purpose is remains to be explained, other than for God's amusement).

(2) Science and logic. Science has proven that there are "billions and billions" of pretty much any outerspace conspect you can imagine. Billions of stars, billions of planets, billions of black holes, billions of galaxies, etc. Therefore, it is reasonably logical to assume that somewhere there is an environment that could host the development of life, and probably intelligent life as well.


I am a middle-of-the-roader on this one, becasue I belive that both concepts are possible without being contradictory. Here is my perspective: The world was flat once, right? And when we found "the new world", it turned out to be humans on the other side. Well, one day we may find another "new world" and my concept of God leads to me conclude that we will find intelligent life not too unlike our own, though more advanced.

The alternative, of course, is that I am wrong from a religious perspective, and thus we will be viewed as an inconsequential organism suited to the purposes of the higher life form. Just as we treat animals, so to will we be treated.

The other alternative is that I am worng from a religious perspective, in which case I except to have a very nice tan very quickly.

[Viking]

why is it extremely unlikely?

Well, if there`s only life on Earth then it would be by a such huge strike of fortune that we exist that I barely can believe it.

Moreover; in the early beginning of the Solar System the planets often exchanged big pieces of rock between each other thanks to powerfull impacts from asteroids and comets. That can be compared to "swap spit".
In one theory we`re actually all martians :dizzy2:

[Divinus Arma]

Wheee! This is fun! I like topics like this.

[Divinus Arma]

It really does seem to boil down to two opposing concepts, with a spectrum of combinations in the middle.

At one end, we are divinely created in God's image, unique, and thus Alone in the universe.

On the other end, we are a product of random events and evolution.


I favor the middle ground in between both extremes, believing that we were divinely 'guided'. This leaves open the option for Aliens.

If we were a product of chance, then life has no purpose.

[Ianofsmeg16]

The matter of aliens in the universe is a thing of probability...at night just turn your head at right angles to the ground and peer at the stars. Now, taking our solar system as a guidline, imagine 9 planets to every star, and say in the sky directly above you there is 1 million stars visible (not accurate i know, but for theories sake) that is 9*1,000,000=9,000,000. Now, again taking our solar system into account (1 liveable planet) that is 1 million planets in your feild of view that should be able to hold life. 1 million! and people are tellling me aliens are complete rubbish. There are other factors aswell e.g the there maybe two or three planets in a solar system which are liveable, after looking at the stars and thinking about what i just said. Tell me there is no life out there
thats my point, comment if you wish
smeg.

[Big_John]

Well, if there`s only life on Earth then it would be by a such huge strike of fortune that we exist that I barely can believe it.however one's belief is no test of validity, of course.


Moreover; in the early beginning of the Solar System the planets often exchanged big pieces of rock between each other thanks to powerfull impacts from asteroids and comets. That can be compared to "swap spit".
In one theory we`re actually all martians :dizzy2:as far as we can tell, life did not come into being on earth until well after the solar system had calmed down. indeed the high rates of accretion of the early solar system would have prevented life as we know it from ever forming in the first place. however, certainly material is swaped between planets even today.. but under these circumstances we are talking only about life from one planet. there's no doubt that parts of mars, for example, could be made (with little effort) to host certain types of earth life. i should clarify; what i mean by extraterrestrial life is life that originated elsewhere than earth.


(2) Science and logic. Science has proven that there are "billions and billions" of pretty much any outerspace conspect you can imagine. Billions of stars, billions of planets, billions of black holes, billions of galaxies, etc. Therefore, it is reasonably logical to assume that somewhere there is an environment that could host the development of life, and probably intelligent life as well.astronomy has shown that there are most likely many planets in the universe, however, no scientific field, that i know of, can make reasonable assertions about the likelihood that any of these planets can (much less do) harbor life. why would one assume that they can support life as a default position? how do you compute the probabilities?


The matter of aliens in the universe is a thing of probability...at night just turn your head at right angles to the ground and peer at the stars. Now, taking our solar system as a guidline, imagine 9 planets to every star, and say in the sky directly above you there is 1 million stars visible (not accurate i know, but for theories sake) that is 9*1,000,000=9,000,000. Now, again taking our solar system into account (1 liveable planet) that is 1 million planets in your feild of view that should be able to hold life. 1 million! and people are tellling me aliens are complete rubbish. There are other factors aswell e.g the there maybe two or three planets in a solar system which are liveable, after looking at the stars and thinking about what i just said. Tell me there is no life out there
thats my point, comment if you wish
smeg.even accepting all of your numerical assumptions for argument's sake, your conclusion is only as strong as your data. 9 planets is not a very strong sample base.

[Divinus Arma]

Big John, the problem we have is that we have sample size of 1. You cannot do statistics with n = 1. Sure we could have an unknown population size, but how do you compute probability with n = 1? You can't. Ant that is the problem. Thus, we can not know one way or the other. And once we have a sample size of n=2, then we already have an answer!

Edit:

It appears to be more logical to accept it as a likely possibility rather than to dismiss it as an impossibility.

Besides, from what frame are you approaching this question? Religion, statistics, what?

[kiwitt]

I have serious doubts as to the existence of intelligent life being out there, that we can contact.

1) Earth is in the perfect orbital position to sustain life; not to hot or too cold. How many other planets will be this lucky.
2) Not all stars we see have planets.
3) Our existence can be numbered in 10,000 years, a very short period in universal terms.
4) The odds of another intelligent life existing in that same time as us within our vicinity is very remote.
5) The distances to be covered, unless the "Speed of Light" can be broken (which I doubt), makes contact very unlikely.

Therefore do I believe in Aliens. No.
Do I think they exist, maybe. I still await the proof.

[Divinus Arma]

I have serious doubts as to the existence of intelligent life being out there, that we can contact.

Intelligent life or intelligent life we can contact?


1) Earth is in the perfect orbital position to sustain life; not to hot or too cold. How many other planets will be this lucky.

Well, this is "lucky" as you put it. But the fact that there is anything in a solid state is also "lucky". The fact that elements exist at all is "lucky" as well.


2) Not all stars we see have planets.

True. And some may have more then we have. And still others may have moons that offer a habitable environment due to position in its solar system and available elements.


3) Our existence can be numbered in 10,000 years, a very short period in universal terms.

We are babies, that is certain. The fact that we haven't figured out a universal answer to religion is proof of this for me. As is our own reluctance to nuture or own species. And the fact that we kill each other constantly. Maybe after a million years, our intelligence will enable us to "evolve" or adapt or grow or whatever beyond these ills.


4) The odds of another intelligent life existing in that same time as us within our vicinity is very remote.

Alien contact in our lifetime? Probably not. In another thousand years? More likely, and so on as time continues.


5) The distances to be covered, unless the "Speed of Light" can be broken (which I doubt), makes contact very unlikely.

Global contact was also impossible up until recently. We only figure out the earth was round a few hundred years ago! We have a lot of growing up to do.


Therefore do I believe in Aliens. No.
Do I think they exist, maybe.

Isn't this contradictory? Is it yes, no, or maybe my friend?

[Don Corleone]

It's funny. Our thread has unwittingly mirrored the trend in scientific circles that this debate tends to take.

Those in the life sciences or related fields (biology, medicine, bio-chemistry) take the argument that it's incredibly unlikely that intelligent life exists anywhere else. They point to all the 'miracles' (not religious ones, just unlikely series of events happening just so) to allow life as we know it to evolve to this point. Any of a zillion missteps along the way and we'd be back to square 1.

Physicsts, cosmologists (universal origins, not hairdressing) and mathematicians point to the nearly infinite sample space of other stellar systems out there. While granted most don't have 9 planets (10 really, the asteroid belt is a failed planet) with at least one class M planet, even if the odds are small, there's SO MANY stellar systems out there, the odds are pretty good that there's many Earthlike planets that experienced similar development conditions. And that assumes that life would be oxygen based and would require such a high concentration of water. Remove those restrictions and the odds shoot up dramatically.

Mind you, we're talking probability. Nobody 'knows' anything on this matter. Except for those scary dudes out at Roswell...:alien:

[Big_John]

Big John, the problem we have is that we have sample size of 1. You cannot do statistics with n = 1. Sure we could have an unknown population size, but how do you compute probability with n = 1? You can't. Ant that is the problem. Thus, we can not know one way or the other. And once we have a sample size of n=2, then we already have an answer!actually n=9, and a test for life returns a match of 1, so far. or are you sampling solar systems? in any case, i contend that we don't have enough data to make any meaningful statements about the probability of non-earth-derived life.


It appears to be more logical to accept it as a likely possibility rather than to dismiss it as an impossibility.between those two, i'm not sure which is more logical.. as i see it, the most logical position is to claim ignorance until sufficient data is collected.


Besides, from what frame are you approaching this question? Religion, statistics, what?if i'm approaching it from any frame, it would be "ignorance". i am interested in statistical data, certainly not metaphysical conjecture (i.e. religious viewpoints) on the subject.

[Big_John]

It's funny. Our thread has unwittingly mirrored the trend in scientific circles that this debate tends to take.

Those in the life sciences or related fields (biology, medicine, bio-chemistry) take the argument that it's incredibly unlikely that intelligent life exists anywhere else. They point to all the 'miracles' (not religious ones, just unlikely series of events happening just so) to allow life as we know it to evolve to this point. Any of a zillion missteps along the way and we'd be back to square 1.

Physicsts, cosmologists (universal origins, not hairdressing) and mathematicians point to the nearly infinite sample space of other stellar systems out there. While granted most don't have 9 planets (10 really, the asteroid belt is a failed planet) with at least one class M planet, even if the odds are small, there's SO MANY stellar systems out there, the odds are pretty good that there's many Earthlike planets that experienced similar development conditions. And that assumes that life would be oxygen based and would require such a high concentration of water. Remove those restrictions and the odds shoot up dramatically.

Mind you, we're talking probability. Nobody 'knows' anything on this matter. Except for those scary dudes out at Roswell...:alien:well, my background is in geophysics and comparative planetology. i personally don't see how one can say anything about the statistics just yet; i don't think we have enough information to even identify the variables, much less compute the probabilities. also be careful of your use of "miracles". ~;)

[Don Corleone]

yeah, I was really hesitant to use that word. Before Quietus and Lemurmania disavow everything I've said, please allow me to substitute the term "incredibly unlikely events that actually occurred" for 'miracles'. I didn't mean to attach any supernatural meaning to the term and actually tried to be clear on that.

Well, I'm no expert in either field. I just watched a debate between Carl Sagan and the chief of staff for Harvard's hospital debate the point, and both ceded the point that their assumptions were intimately tied to the way they approached the problem.

[Divinus Arma]

both ceded the point that their assumptions were intimately tied to the way they approached the problem.

Hence the frame that I refered to Big J.

Sorry, my college statistics knowledge is rusty. I don't use it at work and I don't have a solid enough memory to continue the argument from that perspective. I meant we have a sample of n = 1. 1 planet with life in a N = unknown population (total planets with intelligent life). If I remember correctly, we need a sample of at least two in order to come to any conclusions about N.

If you were to attempt to come to a conclusion based on available data, then of course one would conclude that there is no extraterrestrial life. Is there a definite answer? Not with the information we have available. I will concede that.

But are the positions equally logical as a theory? Becasue really that is what it boils down to: two opposing theories.

Theory (a): There is intelligent extraterrestrial life.

Theory (b): There is not.

Which theory is more logical and why?

[Big_John]

Theory (a): There is intelligent extraterrestrial life.

Theory (b): There is not.

Which theory is more logical and why?sure, and coming from a neutral position, i'm completely comfortable saying, "i haven't the foggiest of notions". ~:)

[Don Corleone]

Yeah, but as Gawain pointed out, that wasn't an option, unfortunately. I didn't pick WTF, because I took that to mean I didn't understand the question, or why it would be important, but if there was a "no way to discern with the evidence available" I would have picked that option.

[Big_John]

i make my own options! ~:pimp:


i didn't bother voting. ~D

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Usually I say "No Aliens" just to bother people. I love it when I hear people say "How arrogant to assume we're the only ones" and blah blah blah. How arrogant to assume I'm wrong.

[bmolsson]

I promised not to tell......

[Divinus Arma]

I promised not to tell......

What?

[kiwitt]

Isn't this contradictory? Is it yes, no, or maybe my friend?

I had to look at Question "Yes" or "No" to believing. That answer is No.
As to them existing that is maybe, because I am open to the presentation of proof. Without proof it will be a no.

[Steppe Merc]

I think there are other life forms elsewhere. Whether or not they've visted Earth, I don't know, but there is some pretty weird, unexlpained stuff. Most of it can be exlpained, but the few things that can't be...
I don't see how it's possible only this planet has life. I don't know if other life flies spaceships or is even intelligent, but it's out there.

[PanzerJaeger]

Dont know, dont care.

[Steppe Merc]

Reagan certaintly cared enough to mention it in multiple speeches, him going on about "If an alien life from another planet invaded, we'd all join together", or something along those lines. ~;)

[PanzerJaeger]

Reagan was a greater man than me. :bow:

[Laridus Konivaich]

I do not believe in aliens (I assume that this is what you mean), but if anyone can give my a valid proof/reason of why I should believe in them, then I would be very happy to do so.

~:grouphug:

[lars573]

I'd believe in aliens before I'd believe in Jesus.

[ichi]

two words,

Michael Jackson

[JAG]

Although sometimes when looking at Conservatives I believe I am speaking / seeing people from a totally different universe - especially with certain remarks - I do not think I have ever seen a real one. However I do believe that somewhere there is some form of different intelligent life.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No such thing as Aliens. As far as I'm concerned the stars are tiny little sparkles in the sky.

[GoreBag]

If the universe (multiverse?) really is infinite, then aliens must exist. Of course, we don't know that it is infinite, but even if it isn't, I'd say there's a reasonable chance they exist.

However, they aren't like the aliens in Signs. Why would you attack a planet where a horribly acidic substance falls from the sky? That movie sucked.

[lars573]

To steal the natural resources before it rained obviously. ~;)

[Papewaio]

And as we all know there is no dew in corn fields before dawn ~:eek:

----

Is there alien life outside this solar system? I hope so, but it is very strange that along all the electromagnetic spectrum we are not seeing signs of life across the whole of the galaxy

Given how quickly we could move across it in a million years based on our technology. It would seem logical that the galaxy should either be barren or teaming with life, not inbetween.

[Roark]

I'd really like aliens to exist, but I expect that they don't...


I'd believe in aliens before I'd believe in Jesus.

Well, there's more material evidence of the existence of Jesus than both aliens AND Julius Caesar, so your faith in the aliens will have to be strong. ~;)

[Divinus Arma]

And as we all know there is no dew in corn fields before dawn ~:eek:

----

Is there alien life outside this solar system? I hope so, but it is very strange that along all the electromagnetic spectrum we are not seeing signs of life across the whole of the galaxy

Given how quickly we could move across it in a million years based on our technology. It would seem logical that the galaxy should either be barren or teaming with life, not inbetween.

With the universe so huge, perhpas it is our concept of barren or teeming is flawed. What do we say is teeming? life in every solar system? On every planet? In ever galaxy? Every other galaxy? Dig up a gallon of sand and you will only find so much of one substance. In some there is more variety, in others there is less. Is antarctica barren? If it was the only life, would we say it was teeming?

[King of Atlantis]

well most scientist say that the universe isnt inifinite, but it is still pretty big.

I dont get why people say that were so lucky that earth is so perfect for life. I think it is more of life as we know it is suited for earth. Meaning there could be tons of aliens that live in completly different planets, that we would say are unsuitable for life.

[Divinus Arma]

well most scientist say that the universe isnt inifinite, but it is still pretty big.

I dont get why people say that were so lucky that earth is so perfect for life. I think it is more of life as we know it is suited for earth. Meaning there could be tons of aliens that live in completly different planets, that we would say are unsuitable for life.

I think that is a very interesting perspective.

[Ja'chyra]

I believe there must be life, intelligent or otherwise, out there and I think that believing that we are the only life is the greatest arrogance, if the universe is infinite then aliens are not just likely but probable.

I also believe that saying a world cannot support life because it is too hot, cold, no water etc is fundementally flawed as this assumption is based on the premise that all life would be similar to us, this again I see as arrogance.

But as for the anal probings and drunken abductions, whatever gets you off the hook when trying to explain to the wife why you're home late ~D

[Divinus Arma]

I'd believe in aliens before I'd believe in Jesus.

Why is that? I am genuinely curious and I would like to stir the pot and kick the beehive.

[Ironside]

However, they aren't like the aliens in Signs. Why would you attack a planet where a horribly acidic substance falls from the sky? That movie sucked.
What do you think about fog? ~D And yes the aliens was idiots in that movie.

On the issue. The big question about life, is actually how often it creates.

When you have life it's extremely resitant, it can temporarily (from a few hours to years) survive 60.000 meters sea pressure, vacuum, 0,05 degrees kelvin, take doses of ionized radiation 1000 times stronger than what kills humans, and survive 150 degrees celsius. Although this is during a safe state (cryptobios), this is multi-celluar life. So killing off life entirely isn't easy.

The amount of planets that exists should atleast give a "few" planets fit for life, even as we know it (carbon-based, water-needing). So if life occurs commonly on planets fit for life, then we have life on other planets. If we ever get life in a test-tube or find any life not comming from earth, then we have proved this point.

When it comes to intelligent life, we first need multi-celluar life (or life radically different from what we know). This one is tricky to know how often it happens, but we can assume that it will happen at some point, as life itself will live until the planet itself dies. When it comes to intelligent life we can assume the same. It will occur at some point atleast.

What's talks against intelligent life is what Pape said, we have had no contact with it. This can be because life is really rare, even that we are alone, that intelligent species like to destroy themself ~;) , faster than light travel is impossible, we are in "quarantine" by some reason (too low development perhaps), that we cannot recognize the contact. Any more suggestions?

So IMO is the question if we are alone or if intelligent life exist, as is life on other planets exist, then the likehood of other intelligent life is quite high.

And finally on the "kidnapped by aliens" issue, earlier was people kidnapped by mythological creatures in the forest, lakes etc (It can be worth noticing that sleeping with some of these creatures was punishable by death, so in the mind of humans, they were certainly alive).
So either haven't the aliens changed tactics for a couple of hundred years, or it exist some type of humans that "like" being abducted by mysterious creatures. And as I agree with Don Carleone on this (stupid method, to abduct people) I say that the second alternative makes more sense. ~D

Edit:

Global contact was also impossible up until recently. We only figure out the earth was round a few hundred years ago! We have a lot of growing up to do.

That humans thought the earth was flat during the middle ages is a myth from the nineteenth century. :book:

[Samurai Waki]

I was going to say that. As far as alien abductions go, there have been many claims, but as to no indication why... apparently Aliens just like anal probing.

As far as the Universe Goes, it is a complicated subject that we'll never truly know, much like religion/after life. I find it hard to believe that if you travelled far enough in the Universe you'd just end up hitting a brick wall...

There is proof that some species do not need Oxygen to survive, micro-organisms found at the bottom of the Ocean have been proven to sustain themselves on Sulpher Vents.

And I do believe that some form of extra-terrestial beings exist elsewhere in this Universe. Out of the Billions of Galaxies, and Billions of Star Systems within those Galaxies, something else has got to exist.

Have Aliens ever visited earth. I don't know for sure, but I am pretty doubtful of it. I don't know why, but I got a hunch that if Aliens could travel as far as Earth, they'd probably rather inhabit a planet more suitable to them, if I was an Alien there'd be no way in hell that I'd settle around some planet infested with war-mongering Humans.

[Abokasee]

two words,

Michael Jackson

HUH? WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?

PLEASE TELL!

[Viking]

as far as we can tell, life did not come into being on earth until well after the solar system had calmed down. indeed the high rates of accretion of the early solar system would have prevented life as we know it from ever forming in the first place.

Not true. Life arose only some hundred million years after the creation of the Earth, and at that time Earth was still heavily bombarded. That means that micro organisms could have travelled on big pieces of rock that was thrown in to space and potentially infected planets like Mars. Or the other way round: Mars infected Earth and we`re all Martians.

[Ianofsmeg16]

even accepting all of your numerical assumptions for argument's sake, your conclusion is only as strong as your data. 9 planets is not a very strong sample base.
Well, if it's more or less, the point of that post was to show people that, with the amount of stars, solar systems and galaxies out there, the probability that there would be life on others worlds in close to 100%
I leave with a quote from monty python...you'd better hope there's intelligent life somewhere out there, cos there's bugger all down here on earth! :bow:

[Viking]

I also believe that saying a world cannot support life because it is too hot, cold, no water etc is fundementally flawed as this assumption is based on the premise that all life would be similar to us, this again I see as arrogance.

I pretty much agree with that and think it`s weird that they already have concluded that water is necessary for life.

I heard one scientist though once said:
-If I met an alien I would say: Our lifeform is carbonbased; how about yours?

[King of Atlantis]

I pretty much agree with that and think it`s weird that they already have concluded that water is necessary for life.

I heard one scientist though once said:
-If I met an alien I would say: Our lifeform is waterbased; how about yours?

actually, arnt we carbon based?

[Viking]

actually, arnt we carbon based?

Yes, that is right, I was unsure whether to call it "carbon based" or "waterbased". I think he called it waterbased, but I`ll correct it.

[Don Corleone]

Hard to say. Traditionally, we've referred to ourselves as carbon based, as that is the base element in organic molecules. But.... we're something like 70% water. I think we should describe ourselves as water based.

[Big_John]

Not true. Life arose only some hundred million years after the creation of the Earth, and at that time Earth was still heavily bombarded. That means that micro organisms could have travelled on big pieces of rock that was thrown in to space and potentially infected planets like Mars. Or the other way round: Mars infected Earth and we`re all Martians.you said the "early beginning" of the solar system, which is ~11-13 billion years old. life could not have existed on the earth during the first half of the solar system's existence. for one, the earth body itself probably hasn't been in existence more than 5 billion years. and even once most of the body had formed, accretion rates were still high enough that the early earth was molten. it is highly unlikely that life formed on earth until after accretion had slowed enough for the earth to form a crust (and an atmosphere). this is what i meant by "life did not come into being on earth until well after the solar system had calmed down".

in any case, i agree that life can be transferred between planets, large enough impacts to do such happen to this day. however, i don't consider earth life seeding mars (or vice-versa) to be an example of what we are talking about. by "extraterrestrial life", i mean life that has different origins to the life found on earth.



Well, if it's more or less, the point of that post was to show people that, with the amount of stars, solar systems and galaxies out there, the probability that there would be life on others worlds in close to 100%i still don't see how you have enough information to compute any probability, assuming the universe of not infinite in size.

[Sigurd]

I guess agnosticism is the safe choice on this issue as it is with other big issues.
That the ancients believed in other worlds (a world is a populated planet) is pretty sure.
The Zohar (a commentary on the books of Moses) mentions worlds created and destroyed by God.
Abraham looked and beheld the universe through two stones and saw worlds without number. He saw the world where God resided.
Moses was told that God had created worlds without number but that God would only show him this one. “You can’t take it if I showed you my other worlds”(parph).
It is also interesting that the ancients called the supreme God by a plural name, suggesting that there were many. This is true even in ancient Judaism.
If you were to look at the other ancient religions there is much supporting the idea that we are not alone.

In the event of an angel teleporting through my roof saying he is from the 1000 year revolving Kolob and that I have better believe in the supreme God Elohim, his son Jehovah and the unnamed Holy Ghost or else… I will continue being an agnostic with a soft spot for religion.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

WTF!? Everyone knows we don't exist! ~D What are you, stupid? ~;) D'oh! :furious3: :help:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I can't imagine we're the only intelligent lifeform out there.

I am unaware of the existance of ANY intelligent life forms. ~;)

[Ianofsmeg16]

i still don't see how you have enough information to compute any probability, assuming the universe of not infinite in size.
BAH! I've always been bad at maths.....i beleive there] is other life out there, you may not believe, i dont mind.

And would we know what aliens looked like...wheneveer somebody has an experience with aliens, be it Abduction or the film Independance day, they always seem to portray aliens as human like, whether it be an insect or an intelligent crystal they always seem to portray human emotions and actions, like speech, for one thing, maybe these aliens have no concept of death, therefore cannot die(like you can't chop someones arm off if they dont have an arm)? anyway that is my bit.

p.s Read Sphere by Michal Crichton, damn good book, s'bout aliens

[Divinus Arma]

That humans thought the earth was flat during the middle ages is a myth from the nineteenth century. :book:

Prove it. This is one hell of a statement. Sure there were a few underground scientitsts, but that's about it. They all thought Columbus would fall off the side of the world. Myth? Promulgated by whom?

I say again: Prove it.

[Big_John]

BAH! I've always been bad at maths.....i beleive there] is other life out there, you may not believe, i dont mind.i'm not talking directly about belief; believe what you like. i'm just curious about people's foundation for the belief in alien life. personally, i don't think we have a statistical basis to form an opinion. hence, i remain neutral, neither believing nor disbelieving.


Prove it. This is one hell of a statement. Sure there were a few underground scientitsts, but that's about it. They all thought Columbus would fall off the side of the world. Myth? Promulgated by whom?

I say again: Prove it.i certainly couldn't prove it, but iirc, the spherical earth model was common in antiquity (e.g. ptolemy, eratosthenes, pythagoras, aristotle). it was challenged by flat-earth models propagated by early christian authors (on scriptural grounds) in the early "dark ages". but i don't think it's clear to what extent flat-earth teachings were prominent, or what the more commonly held belief was, either among learned people or the common man. in the medieval period, certainly, the generally accepted idea seems to be the geocentric model of the universe (which has a spherical earth).

it'll always be difficult to estimate the belief's of the common man in the medieval period. however, by the 1100s learned men were already trying to estimate the circumference of a spherical earth. flat-earth ideas have always been around, but they weren't accepted among the scholars of the medieval period to any great degree.

[HunkinElvis]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but i'd like to know one thing; all of you who believe that extraterrestrial life is likely, what is your basis for that belief?
Well than what is the basis of your belief that there are no aliens? You have not been to the entire universe. Therefore you do not have proof that there are no aliens.

[Viking]

you said the "early beginning" of the solar system, which is ~11-13 billion years old. life could not have existed on the earth during the first half of the solar system's existence.

Sorry, my mistake :bow:

[Big_John]

Well than what is the basis of your belief that there are no aliens?i do not believe there are no aliens; i'm neutral on the issue, atm.