Europe's demographic crisis

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Europe's demographic crisis
Chuck Colson (archive)

July 11, 2005 | printer friendly version Print | email to a friend Recommend to a friend

In a well-known urban legend, college students simultaneously flush all the toilets on campus and break down the town’s sewage system. While this story about overtaxing a sanitation system may be a myth, real-world Germans have learned what happens when you don’t tax the system enough. It’s a vivid example of the damage caused by the “birth dearth.”

The “birth dearth” is what demographers call plummeting birth rates in most of the industrialized world. Throughout Western Europe and East Asia, the birth rate is well below 2.1 births per woman—which is the minimum needed to maintain a stable population.

Environmentalist dogma argues that plummeting birth rates are a good thing: People cause pollution, we’re told. Well, officials in countries like Japan, Korea, and Germany now know better. In these and other so-called “advanced” societies, shrinking populations threaten their way of life and their cultural identity.

In Japan, for example, a birth rate that is barely half of “replacement level” has forced the closure of more than two thousand schools in the past ten years, with hundreds more closures to come. It’s left the government wondering who will support Japan’s aging population. These and other concerns, like the possible extinction of the Japanese people, have prompted older Japanese to call their childless children “parasite singles.”

In Germany, the population of some villages has shrunk so much that “there are now too few people flushing for the sewage to properly flow.” As a result, the government has had to spend scarce resources on retrofitting sewage systems.

Elsewhere in Germany and the rest of Europe, the emptying landscape provides an opening for an unlikely immigrant: the wolf. German biologists expect the growing packs to head soon toward Berlin.

Now, wolves in Berlin sounds like the stuff of science fiction, but it’s a science fact. What’s incredible is the response of the average European or East Asian. They literally shrug their shoulders; they can’t imagine changing their lifestyle to accommodate having two or more children instead of one or none. They believe against all evidence in a technological or political solution to this problem.

But, as columnist Mark Steyn writes, “there’s simply no precedent for managed decline in societies as advanced as Europe’s”—or Japan, for that matter. Throughout history, societies in demographic decline, usually as a result of disease, have faced two unattractive options: a decline in their standard of living or the replacement of their native population with a more fertile immigrant one.

Europe has, essentially by default, chosen the latter. But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition. And in Japan, where racial purity is a primary cultural value, the population faces eventual extinction.

It’s hard to imagine a better example of the importance of worldviews, and specifically in this case, the Christian one. Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity. Its rejection of what Christianity teaches about the family has made the continent safe for another kind of family: four-legged ones who howl at the moon.



Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.

[Kagemusha]

How is Europe hostile towards christianity?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

How is Europe hostile towards christianity?

Are you kidding? Ask Jag ~D

[Marcellus]

But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

Is this article implying that all the Muslims in Europe are terrorists?! Because that is what it sounds like!


Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity. Its rejection of what Christianity teaches about the family has made the continent safe for another kind of family: four-legged ones who howl at the moon.

The declining birth rate is due to lifestyle changes, not because of a rejection of Christianity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although the birth rate is declining, in much of Europe there are enough immigrants from areas of the world with high birth rates to keep the population steady.

[kiwitt]

Of course the "Birth-rate" is going to go down overall. It can not be sustained at the rate set in the "Baby-Boom" years. It does not mean a race will become extinct, just that there will be a less people.

When I was growing up in the 70's there were warnings of a "population" explosion. This may have helped form the opinion in some people that there is already too many people, and made the choice not to have any children. However, people didn't see this just an abberation caused by the end of WWII.

We have built an infrastructure based on that "growth curve". Now that the growth has stopped or slowed, we need to adjust our view of what is important.

[Sjakihata]

This article is funny, over exaggerated and false as well!

This is no news, everyone in europe has known this for ages. And why is the alternative to accept immigrants unattractive?

[Kagemusha]

You know there are atheists in US too? ~;) And about muslim emmigrants in Europe.Arent all Indoeuropean peoples in Europe immigrants from East?Ive also heard that Southern US is getting pretty Hispanic.Poorer people have had an long tradition to move to places where are better possibilities to get rich.Its true that birth rates in Europe ar going downhill pretty fast.But i dont think it has nothing to do with Christian values.You know in Rome in about year 0 they had pretty similar problem because women from patrician families were concentrating other things than having children.
When a cultureS reaches certain degree of development.They have started to decline always in World history.Maybe our western civilization have reached it. :bow:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Is this article implying that all the Muslims in Europe are terrorists?! Because that is what it sounds like!

Where does it say ALL? The fact is thought that many among them are terrorists and that you dont find european christains becoming terrorists.


The declining birth rate is due to lifestyle changes, not because of a rejection of Christianity.

The changing lifestyle is a result of rejection of christianity.


Of course the "Birth-rate" is going to go down overall.

Why? It isnt going down in the rest of the world.


It can not be sustained at the rate set in the "Baby-Boom" years

Thats not the roblem. Who wants that? The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.


This is no news, everyone in europe has known this for ages. And why is the alternative to accept immigrants unattractive?

Its not if you dont mind eseeing your way of life and that of your country go down the drain. Hell why should we care how many mexicans move her. Let them take over.

[Marcellus]

Where does it say ALL?

well...


But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

By mentioning the terror bombings in London first, and then using the phrase 'millions of Islamic immigrants', the article is implying that these millions of Islamic immigrants are supporters of the attcks, which they plainly don't.


The fact is thought that many among them are terrorists and that you dont find european christains becoming terrorists.

The vast majority of muslims deplore terrorism. And as for Christian terrorists, how about the IRA? A lot of the IRA violence was due to protestant/catholic tensions.


The changing lifestyle is a result of rejection of christianity.

No, it's because of a reduced need of children for labour and the economic cost of children. I don't think that these people would have more children if they were more 'obedient' to Christianity (anyway, when did Christianity say that you had to have large families?)


Why? It isn't going down in the rest of the world.

That's because in the rest of the world (the 'developing' parts), large numbers of children are economically useful, since they provide extra labour.


The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.

Actually, due to immigration, most can.


Its not if you dont mind eseeing your way of life and that of your country go down the drain. Hell why should we care how many mexicans move her. Let them take over.

Immigrants hardly come in enough strength for this supposed 'takeover' you are talking about. They sustain economies. And although some don't, many immigrants do integrate into the society they move into.

[Kagemusha]

Gawain how would you deal with this problem?

[CBR]

Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR

[Tribesman]

Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.
Yes you have havn't you ~;)
Last time you posted an article by a neo-Nazi , this time you post an article by an ex-con .
Whats up ? Can't you find any decent sources . ~D ~D ~D

[Sjakihata]

how would you deal with this problem?
simple, have sex... :D

[Byzantine Prince]

Gawain this article is completely false. I'll give you 3 reasons and I want you to address them:

1. Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid. The only minority in Japan is some Koreans from middle ages and some native populations in the north. None compare to the collosal 140 million japanese.
The decline in their population is due to their shrinking of employment opportunities, therefore a good thing IMO.

2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

3. Christianity is not a way of life. Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife, when you get married, or even how many children you have. China is atheist, why did they have such high rise? Again it's ridiculous. IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living. Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work. Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

Please answer these, I think we all want to know why you would take this article seriously. :bow:

[Kagemusha]

simple, have sex... :D

But those damned females outsmart us by using birth control pills! ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

By mentioning the terror bombings in London first, and then using the phrase 'millions of Islamic immigrants', the article is implying that these millions of Islamic immigrants are supporters of the attcks, which they plainly don't

Well your entitiled to your interpretation but to me it says that among the millions of Muslims some terrorists were included. It says nothng of what your on about.


The vast majority of muslims deplore terrorism.

Do they or do they jusat say they do? Besides that has nothing to do with this. All the terrorists are Muslims not all Mulsims are terrorists is the point.


And as for Christian terrorists, how about the IRA? A lot of the IRA violence was due to protestant/catholic tensions.

Does the IRA threaten the world?


No, it's because of a reduced need of children for labour and the economic cost of children. I don't think that these people would have more children if they were more 'obedient' to Christianity (anyway, when did Christianity say that you had to have large families?)

You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?


That's because in the rest of the world (the 'developing' parts), large numbers of children are economically useful, since they provide extra labour.

Well I belive that abortion is not allowed in Islam. I dont know about birth control. So its your position that only the poor can afford to have children. Whoda thunk it?


Actually, due to immigration, most can.

Im speaking of native population.


Immigrants hardly come in enough strength for this supposed 'takeover' you are talking about. They sustain economies. And although some don't, many immigrants do integrate into the society they move into.

You better start paying arttention to reality. The Mexicans here dont call it La Reconquista for nothing. Three million illegals from Mexico alone every year and that not counting the legal ones. Thats coming here in plenty of strength. In a mere 10 years that means they have accounted for 1tenth of our population.

[Sjakihata]

Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR

What do you say about this Gawain?

[CBR]

You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?
And some would say catholics are not true christians and the pope is anti-christ himself. True protestants wouldnt allow the church to have anything to say in that matter ~:)


CBR

[Marcellus]

Do they or do they jusat say they do? Besides that has nothing to do with this. All the terrorists are Muslims not all Mulsims are terrorists is the point.

No, they do. And 'all the terrorists are Muslims'! No they're not. Take the IRA (again) as an example. All the terrorism that is in the media is by 'Muslims'. I say 'Muslims' because there is a very good case for saying that although these people act in the name of Islam, they have nothing to do with true Islam.


Does the IRA threaten the world?

Only if we let it. And the same goes to A-Q. It does not threaten the world unless we let their actions change our way of life. If we do not let them, then all they can do is kill people, but not threaten our world.


You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?

Oh no, giving people the choice as to whether they want children or not!


Im speaking of native population.

I don't really care about native populations. A Briton is a Briton, regardless of where they are born. I don't know what it's like in the U.S., though...


You better start paying arttention to reality. The Mexicans here dont call it La Reconquista for nothing. Three million illegals from Mexico alone every year and that not counting the legal ones. Thats coming here in plenty of strength. In a mere 10 years that means they have accounted for 1tenth of our population.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really care about Mexican immigrants. This thread is about 'Europe's demgraphic crisis', after all. In Britain, depite a lot of people moaning about immigration, immigrants from all backgrounds form something like 7% of the population, and most of them feel British. It's hardly an imminent takeover.

[ICantSpellDawg]

i hope that the author was using the "wolves at the gates" concept as a metaphor...

are you kidding? europe isnt hostile towards christianity?

it seems that european politics is operating off of the tautological falshood that:
IF catholic THEN pro-life (one of many examples examples)

IF catholic THEN bad

IF pro-life THEN catholic

pro-life = Bad


i am using catholic for any christian denomination that is either relativly hard-line or fundamental - and it is an example of how it SEEMS, not how it is

[Papewaio]

First aren't Mexicans largely of Spanish Ethnic origion and Catholic in religion. So don't they count as Europeans?

In particular But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate,
turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

According to my understanding of English Grammar the statement can be rearranged more clearly to:
It is a dubious proposition turning millions of Islamic immigrants into "Europeans" as illustrated by last week's bombing in London

It is saying that all (millions) of Islamic immigrants are responsible for the bombings last week. Now that is as I have already stated before a very broad brush to state an entire group of society is responsible for the ills done by a few. Now is saying that an entire religion is responsible a racist attack or not?

Lets start saying all Catholics are terrorists because of the IRA bombings. Lets start saying all Christians are murderers for the actions of the KKK.
Exactly how stupid and racist would that be? The authour of this article is just as patently racist and stupid, the only thing stopping people seeing that is their own prejudice.

Falling birth rate is due to education and the knowledge gained that allows people to choose. Working longer hours, spending more time getting the education and paying for it. Also the understanding of how to get pregnant, so simple methods to avoid it until in a secure finacial position to look after the child.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

But all this

education and the knowledge gained that allows people to choose. Working longer hours, spending more time getting the education and paying for it. Also the understanding of how to get pregnant, so simple methods to avoid it until in a secure finacial position to look after the child.
Is still not a great thing to have going on when your nation can become extinct without immigration.

As a side question: does the "average" (IE NOT supportive-of-terrorist-attacks) Moslem in Europe have similar political leanings as the "average" European? I know, its hard to work with that definition. But I'll ask it a different way:

Does the average Moslem immigrant vote the same way as the average Briton or Frenchman (or anyone else, sorry), or do they form a voting block that consistantly votes one way?

EDIT: Fixed to be more sensitive to non-Brits and non-Frenchmen. What a limp-wristed pansy I'm turning into. ~D

[Kagemusha]

Whats the average amount of children on white americans?

[Sjakihata]

Does the average Moslem immigrant vote the same way as the average Briton or Frenchman, or do they form a voting block that consistantly votes one way?

I cannot answer for either France or Britain, but I can for Denmark. In Denmark, moslems tend to vote on the center parties. Especially one called the radical left. Explanation, the part Left, historically, was the farmers party opposed to the conservatives, the noblemens party. However, today left is a liberal party (known to americans as republican), actually more conservative than the danish party The Conservative. The radical left has an ideology focusing on pascifism and modern liberal views (free market, human rights, democracy etc). This party gets a lot of the moslem votes in Denmark. Most moslems, though, doesnt vote.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Whats the average amount of children on white americans?
Prolly much lower than the 2.1 replacement rate, especially since the American average is 2.07. :embarassed:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I cannot answer for either France or Britain, but I can for Denmark.Sorry, fixed.


In Denmark, moslems tend to vote on the center parties. Especially one called the radical left. Explanation, the part Left, historically, was the farmers party opposed to the conservatives, the noblemens party. However, today left is a liberal party (known to americans as republican), actually more conservative than the danish party The Conservative. The radical left has an ideology focusing on pascifism and modern liberal views (free market, human rights, democracy etc). This party gets a lot of the moslem votes in Denmark. Most moslems, though, doesnt vote.
Hmmm. Thank you!

[Kagemusha]

So you Americans are near extinction aswell? ~;)

[King of Atlantis]

First aren't Mexicans largely of Spanish Ethnic origion and Catholic in religion. So don't they count as Europeans?

Actually mexicans have a signifigant native american population,hence their darker skin, mixed in with their spanish ancestory.

But, anyways the defiantly wouldnt be counted as eurpeans. Do you count the average white american to be european. Sure we are of european ancestory, but we arnt european.

The problem with the large hispanic immagrations is that many of them dont integrate into american society and even learn english.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

So you Americans are near extinction aswell?

Nope. Like the Euros, we get enough immigration to balance it out. :book:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No, they do.

I suppose you can back that up.


And 'all the terrorists are Muslims'! No they're not.

Yes they are as far as the bombings in London are concerned.


Take the IRA (again) as an example

Again a very poor example. The IRA have no interest in spready christianity around the world. Their whole bag is about Ireland alone. No one in the US or France is worried about the IRA.


All the terrorism that is in the media is by 'Muslims'.
Thats because lately their the only ones doing it.


I say 'Muslims' because there is a very good case for saying that although these people act in the name of Islam, they have nothing to do with true Islam.

And they would say they are the only true Muslims and everyone else is an infidel and deserves to die. In fact thats exactly what they do say. Of course theres only a few hundred million of them nothing to worry about.


Only if we let it.

It has no wordly asperations . What have you been smoking as I want some of that. ~D


It does not threaten the world unless we let their actions change our way of life. If we do not let them, then all they can do is kill people, but not threaten our world.

Thats the point the IRAs actions dont effect us here in the least. Its only between Britain and Ireland. This cannot be said of AQ and other Muslim extremist groups.


Oh no, giving people the choice as to whether they want children or not!

Who was it said acting like christains wouldnt increase the population? Thats what this was adressing.



And some would say catholics are not true christians and the pope is anti-christ himself.

Well the original church was the catholic one. All protestant churches are merely watered down versions of the same thing. Many catholics would argue the Martin Luther was the anti christ though Im far more inclined to give that honor to Mohamed.

I don't really care about native populations. A Briton is a Briton, regardless of where they are born. I don't know what it's like in the U.S., though...

Well their you go. I hope you dont mind your decendants speaking arabic and facing Mecca 5 times a day.


True protestants wouldnt allow the church to have anything to say in that matter

Thats why their protestants ~D And your right I believe theres nothing about contrception in their churches. However I believe they do frown on abortion.


Originally Posted by CBR
Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR


What do you say about this Gawain?

Well in the year I lived there I didnt meet one Japanese Christain nor did I see any churches. ~D

[Byzantine Prince]

Gawain this article is completely false. I'll give you 3 reasons and I want you to address them:

1. Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid. The only minority in Japan is some Koreans from middle ages and some native populations in the north. None compare to the collosal 140 million japanese.
The decline in their population is due to their shrinking of employment opportunities, therefore a good thing IMO.

2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

3. Christianity is not a way of life. Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife, when you get married, or even how many children you have. China is atheist, why did they have such high rise? Again it's ridiculous. IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living. Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work. Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

Please answer these, I think we all want to know why you would take this article seriously. :bow:


Gawain...are you gonna reply to this?

[Kagemusha]

Nope. Like the Euros, we get enough immigration to balance it out. :book:

Hey.There is pretty much immigration coming here too,If your immigrants are coming mainly from Latin America.Immigration to Europe is mainly from Asia and Africa. :book:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm not disagreeing. ~:)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid.

And when the last couple has the last kid then what?


2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

He didnt say it effected all of Germany .


Christianity is not a way of life

Obviously your not a christian.


Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife

And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.


IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living

Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.


Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work

Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.


Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

How horrible.

[Kagemusha]

I'm not disagreeing. ~:)

Sorry i misread your post. :embarassed:
I think its time to me to go to bed if im gonna get up tomorrow for work its 3:15 am in here. ~:cheers:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Sorry i misread your post.
No probalo. I do it too. ~:)



I think its time to me to go to bed if im gonna get up tomorrow for work its 3:15 am in here.

Nighty night! ~:cheers:

[Byzantine Prince]

=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.


Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?


And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.
I'm not talking about other religions. To me they are all equally worthless. In Europe white europeans are not converting to Islam, so even that point is void. Seeing as most prefer atheism, there's nothing there that allows for debauchery that hasn't already existed when everyone was Christian.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.



Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.
I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

The article is stupid. Period. :book:

[Steppe Merc]

Wolves are going back to their age old hunting grounds? Excellent! They were there before the peopel were.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Wait a second. You can live for today and not care about money and still love your family. Just because people aren't afraid they're going to burn in hell doesn't mean they all love money and hate their family.

And this articale frankly scares me. It reeks of racial purity in my mind. I think it's time people realized that no one is racially pure of any sort. Everyone has genes from all over the place.

How about instead of having more kids, they adopt? There are a whole bunch of homeless kids around the world. My aunt and uncle said when they adopted my little cousin from China, there were a whole bunch more children that didn't have any kids.

[Tribesman]

The article is stupid. Period.
Probably because the author of the article is a stupid person .

[King of Atlantis]

Whats wrong with people wanting to perserve their race? I dont think whit people are better tan any others, but i dont want to see our heritage/culture die out. The same goes for any race.

[kiwitt]

Why? It isnt going down in the rest of the world.The "Baby-Boom" only affected the main combantant nations in WWII, they have a different population profile.
The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.Whose problem, nameless faceless bureaucrats managing an infrastructure.

If there are less people in the country, there will be less demand in the country, less demand cheaper prices overall in the country: Economics 101. Good for the consumer, bad for business.

NOTE: Some commodities that have an international demand, like oil, will be unaffected. So business involved in these will be fine.

[Tribesman]

Whats wrong with people wanting to perserve their race?
Well the author is American , the person he quotes is Canadian , so out of the mish mash of races that make up the population of those countries what race are they talking about ? The same goes for Europe , what race , heritage or culture ?
Or are they just babbling on about some non existant white christian race ?

[bmolsson]

It's actually very touching how caring Gawain is over us Europeans sex life and future exitence. I must say I am in tears..... ~;)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It's actually very touching how caring Gawain is over us Europeans sex life and future exitence. I must say I am in tears...

Oh yeah. Well I dont give two craps about the sex life and future exitence of Indonesians. ~D My only concern obviously is for the white race. I guess bemoaning the fact that your people are slowly making themselves extinct makes you a racist around here these days.

[Papewaio]

Again as far as genetics is concerned we are a single race.

A white horse is not a different race to a brown horse.

The differences are cultural, religion and technology.

BTW methinks Bmolsson is of European descent (he can correct me if I am wrong).

[PanzerJaeger]

The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.

I dont think the spanish over here would, but the muslims have some very different takes on the world that I dont think real europeans would appreciate being forced on them.

I dont plan on having any children so I guess im part of the problem, but if the mexicans ever try their "reconquista" - ill be ready to fight them. :shrug:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Again as far as genetics is concerned we are a single race.

We maybe a single species but we are not a single race though at one time we probably were.


A white horse is not a different race to a brown horse.

Nope but therea more thata differnt between say colored people. pc crap., and us thanjust the color of our skin.


10 entries found for race.
race1 Audio pronunciation of "race" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology.
1. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
2. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.


[French, from Old French, from Old Italian razza, race, lineage.]

Usage Note: The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasian race,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

Scienticly speaking of course you are correct. But I would hate to see all black horses dissapear from the earth as weel . Also these

The differences are cultural, religion and technology. are the things that we are most in danger of losing.

[Papewaio]

Or gaining in the melting pot.

All I need to do is go up to the local food hall and have a wealth of options to choose from in food.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Or gaining in the melting pot.

You put too much of anything in that pot and it starts to obtain the flavor of what ever it is your adding. Thats not always a good thing.

[Papewaio]

Do you think as an immigrant who is married to an immigrant, who is the son of immigrants, who is the grandchild of immigrants that I am at all intimidated by immigrants?

[kiwitt]

I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

No irs not. Most people who emigrated to these counties did so in the beggining and for the most part from Europe and they got their Laws and governments from being part of the British Empire. I have no problem with legal immigration . But what we have now is chaos both here and over there. Again Rome never really fell. Just so many people or barbarians became Romans that they were no longer a race . That and the fact I believe that their birth rate also couldnt maintain the population. I guess its the cost of becoming the most civilised is to make yourself extinct.That or a cruel trick of god.

[King of Atlantis]

I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

The problem isnt with immigrants that blend with the native culture while adding some nice new flavor, but with the ones that try to change the culture to the way things are in the country they left.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The problem isnt with immigrants that blend with the native culture while adding some nice new flavor, but with the ones that try to change the culture to the way things are in the country they left.

Like Kosovo and it can be argued Israel.

[bmolsson]

Oh yeah. Well I dont give two craps about the sex life and future exitence of Indonesians. ~D My only concern obviously is for the white race. I guess bemoaning the fact that your people are slowly making themselves extinct makes you a racist around here these days.

Just for the record;

Indonesians don't need any help with sex or reproduction.... ~D

bmolsson is a Swede and will always be one. Even though he have adapted to the Indonesian passion for sex and reproduction...... ~;)

[Tribesman]

The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.
Give up your vote Panzer you immigrant ~D ~D ~D

[bmolsson]

Sucks for you Euros. Luckily, us Americans are as prolific is ever.


Actually it makes sense. All nations with fundamentalistic views have a very high brithrate. Another evidence on the US theocracy...... ~:cheers:

[King of Atlantis]

Actually it makes sense. All nations with fundamentalistic views have a very high brithrate. Another evidence on the US theocracy...... ~:cheers:


hmmm.. Fathers of modern democracy are now a theocracy. News to me. :dizzy2:

[bmolsson]

hmmm.. Fathers of modern democracy are now a theocracy. News to me. :dizzy2:

It's ok, after all you are from Florida.... ~:grouphug:

[Ser Clegane]

Well in the year I lived there I didnt meet one Japanese Christain nor did I see any churches. ~D

I guess you haven't been to Nagasaki then ~;)

[InsaneApache]

Again a very poor example. The IRA have no interest in spready christianity around the world. Their whole bag is about Ireland alone. No one in the US or France is worried about the IRA.

So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

[King of Atlantis]

So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

[Idaho]

Well it was vaguely interesting until:


and specifically in this case, the Christian one. Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity

At which point it became clear that it was another pointless foray from bible bashers. Yawn.. go back to the 14th century - someone there might actually listen.

[InsaneApache]

There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

Really!!!!....tell that to a certain Mr. Parry who's 12 year old son was blown into little pieces by an IRA bomb hidden in a rubbish bin as he walked past. How can it possibly make any difference if the bullet lodged in your skull was fired by a Finian or a Moslem. ALL terrorism is evil.

Perhaps if those deluded Americans who 'supported' those foul nasty people known as 'freedom fighters' had stopped and thought for a minute then maybe, just maybe there would be more people alive today. The hypocrisy is in this so called 'war on terror'....errr...excuse me, we (UK) have been fighting this very war for over 40 years, but it wasn't until America was attacked that it became a global issue....like I said....sheer hypocrisy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_2544000/2544121.stm :thumbsdown:

[Franconicus]

I've been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.
Gawain, please do not have the impression that we Europeans do not listen to your warnings. I changed my life completely. I will have a new baby in August - the second in 19 months! If I continue there will be a huge increase in population soon. ~:cheers:
Some other comments:
Population increase and decrease effects the culture and the property of a nation. None is only positive none is only negative. The big increase of population in the 19th century was one root for the two WWs.
The baby boom in the 60ies gave us econominal growth. But as I am part of it I have to say that it has some draw backs as well.
Today's situation gives some disadvanteges, but some advantages as well. In the long run, what would be so bad if the world had only half as much Germans as it has today? As long as we win the football championship ~:)
Regarding the muslims and other immigrants in Europe. This is a very complex story. It varies from country to country. In Germany most of the immigrants are Turkish, many of them in the 3rd generation. Many of them are well integrated and have a German kind of lifestyle. Many gained property, have houses or stores. But many others are still not integrated. They hardly speak any German, have low education and high unemployment. Being here in the 3rd generation they do not have a modern Turkish lifestyle. So most of them are looking for a new identity. The result of this is that the attraction of fundamental islam has grown and that the willingness for integration is lower than ever.

[el_slapper]

So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

And partially wrong. Some IRA members WERE arrested in Paris in the 80s in a flat fulled by weapons. It even led to a scandal, as some of the weapons had been added by the cops to "add" to the worth of their discovery, but nevertheless those were preparing something out of the british Isles.

Anyways, around 1/3 of the muslims here(most being of North-African Ascent) do marry "locals" (including numerous metis from the french indies, btw - but those are french since 3-4 centuries). Of course you still have a core of crazy salafists - who forbid themselves marrying outside the "sons of the prophet and its followers"(read the arabs), but they are not numerous enough to make a demographic impact. And the funny side is that as early as the 2nd generation, immigrants tend to adopt local's natality behaviour.

That being said, natality rates are a problem. A light one in France(around 1.9), where a light immigration is enough. A strong one in Italy, Spain or Japan, that have to rethink about themselves - one way or another. And one might ask : "what is the difference between France and Spain?". Spain is...more catholic!!! So catholicism is obviously not a relevant factor, or better : it can be relevant but other factors may be stronger. The difference is that France has one of the most efficient network of facilities for taking care of youngsters. So that a lady can manage a career, have 3 children, and still have an impressive career - because she can use that network for taking care of her children.

In other words : christianism may have boosted the birth rate in americas, but it was counterproductive in Europe after the so-called "woman's freeding". As countries wanting to respect a traditional family structure are those who invested the least in the management of children of working women(Italy & Spain especially). So ladies over there have to choose between their career & their job. There is still much work to do over there, but we're overall better than our neighbours.

[Sigurd]

natalityCool! I learned a new word today... thanks el_slapper ~:cheers:

[lars573]

I guess you haven't been to Nagasaki then ~;)

Also I just checked some stats on Japan, Christians make up 0.7% of the population. So 0.7% of 127 and some change million is 891,921 christians in Japan. Which is a friggin miracle considering that the Tokugawas purged all the christians they could find in like 1620.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

make it mandantory for all men and women capable to have unprotected sex at least once aday until they have at least 2,2 children!
That would be nice.

[Ja'chyra]

make it mandantory for all men and women capable to have unprotected sex at least once aday until they have at least 2,2 children!
That would be nice.

With anyone in particular or just whoever happens to be closest?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

With anyone in particular or just whoever happens to be closest?
Opposite sex of your choosing. :bow:

[Franconicus]

Hey Kaiser,
you are currently in Germany, aren't you? Are working on the solution? ~:)
P.S.: How is your stay?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Hey Kaiser,
you are currently in Germany, aren't you? Are working on the solution? ~:)
P.S.: How is your stay?
I'm workin on it ~:cheers: ~:cool:
BTW I'm having a great time
Straßburg tommorow!

[Ja'chyra]

Opposite sex of your choosing. :bow:

That gets my vote.

[InsaneApache]

I'll go for that ~:cheers: ....just don't tell the wife ~;)

[Don Corleone]

IA, you're absolutely correct. The IRA was horrible and despicable, and no less the bloodthirsty murderers that Al Queda are. There's actually a family feud in my family between myself & one of my cousins versus 2 of my cousins from a different branch. We haven't spoken anything other than formalities in close to 20 years, because they were 'passing a hat for the cause'. It was disgusting then and it's disgusting now, and I apologize for the misguided financial support given by some of my (regretfully) extended family members.

[InsaneApache]

kudos to you Don.....it's a shame you still arn't talking though. Perhaps if you agreed not to discuss this topic you might find time for a game and a couple of beers.

[Idaho]

There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/omagh/omagh.jpg

http://www.battlehill395.freeserve.co.uk/Omagh%20bomb%20victims.jpg

http://www.open2.net/reith2004/jpegs/bomb_birmingham.jpg

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

Look no one is saying that their acts of terrorism arent just as bad as say AQs.The difference is that they dont threaten the wole world. Its like comparing Hitler to Jeffery Domers. Yes their both horrible people but Hitler was far more dangerous. Again the IRA doesnt threaten the entire planet.

[Don Corleone]

The ONLY thing I might say, and this is in no way a mitigation of the vile acts the IRA perpetrated, was that there were two factions operating, and some of the more extreme factions in the Orange Order weren't that much better.

[InsaneApache]

There is no mitigation. I repeat ALL terrorism is evil.

[Steppe Merc]

Do you think as an immigrant who is married to an immigrant, who is the son of immigrants, who is the grandchild of immigrants that I am at all intimidated by immigrants?
I feel the same way, it's a bit silly for me to be fearing immigrants since my entire mom's side immigrated here around the 1900s. But they were evil Polish, who didn't know how to observe proper the proper Western way of life, of course. :dizzy2:
My dad's side is so confusing, I can't tell heads or tail, but you don't get a English, French and German without immigration.

Oh, Apache, I agree wholeheartedly. :bow:

[Tribesman]

Time for a proper reply to this bit now .
The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.
I dont think the spanish over here would, but the muslims have some very different takes on the world that I dont think real europeans would appreciate being forced on them.

So Panzer you wish to remove citizens rights to vote because of their religion . But of course removing their right to vote wouldn't be enough , you would have to ban them from holding any governmnet job , just in case they had any influence , ban them from teaching as well , ban them from practicing law or medicine , ban them from operating in the financial industry .
You must be thorough in your clampdown !!!!
To make sure they don't slip through the net make sure they all register and stamp all their identification papers with the letter "I" for Islam , I was going to suggest "M" for Muslim but I think we should keep that letter free for when we get round to clamping down on the Mexicans .
Furthermore , to make sure they cannot influence anyone who hasn't asked to see their papers , lets make them sew a nice crescent onto all their clothes so we can easily identify them .
:help:

Gawain ; Since the article is almost identical from the last one you posted on the subject , though of course taken from a right wing ex con this time instead of from a neo-Nazi .
Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull ... What exactly is this WHITE CHRISTIAN RACE you are on about , what shade of skin counts as white ? what Christian counts as a white Christian ? What is your position of Christians who are not white or people who are white who are not Christian ?
Or are you just a ****** ******* ?

[Redleg]

Time for a proper reply to this bit now .
The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.
I dont think the spanish over here would, but the muslims have some very different takes on the world that I dont think real europeans would appreciate being forced on them.

So Panzer you wish to remove citizens rights to vote because of their religion . But of course removing their right to vote wouldn't be enough , you would have to ban them from holding any governmnet job , just in case they had any influence , ban them from teaching as well , ban them from practicing law or medicine , ban them from operating in the financial industry .
You must be thorough in your clampdown !!!!
To make sure they don't slip through the net make sure they all register and stamp all their identification papers with the letter "I" for Islam , I was going to suggest "M" for Muslim but I think we should keep that letter free for when we get round to clamping down on the Mexicans .
Furthermore , to make sure they cannot influence anyone who hasn't asked to see their papers , lets make them sew a nice crescent onto all their clothes so we can easily identify them .
:help:



Oh my someone needs to drink some ale and forget about his outrage at another's post. Looks like someone is atrolling - does it not



Gawain ; Since the article is almost identical from the last one you posted on the subject , though of course taken from a right wing ex con this time instead of from a neo-Nazi .
Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull ... What exactly is this WHITE CHRISTIAN RACE you are on about , what shade of skin counts as white ? what Christian counts as a white Christian ? What is your position of Christians who are not white or people who are white who are not Christian ?
Or are you just a ****** ******* ?

Now someone has gone beyond trolling into something else.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull

Because you misunderstand me. Its not the biological but the ethics of western civilization Im worried about losing. There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east. Now if you see nothing wrong with that and believe that their society is just as good as ours and dont mind it replacing ours then what can I say? I dont care what race you are but I do care what your basic moral codes are and how they may effect me and mine in the future. I dont fancy facing Mecca 5 times a day. Peaceful invasion is the most succesful. Again thats really what brought down Rome.

[PanzerJaeger]

So Panzer you wish to remove citizens rights to vote because of their religion . But of course removing their right to vote wouldn't be enough , you would have to ban them from holding any governmnet job , just in case they had any influence , ban them from teaching as well , ban them from practicing law or medicine , ban them from operating in the financial industry .
You must be thorough in your clampdown !!!!
To make sure they don't slip through the net make sure they all register and stamp all their identification papers with the letter "I" for Islam , I was going to suggest "M" for Muslim but I think we should keep that letter free for when we get round to clamping down on the Mexicans .
Furthermore , to make sure they cannot influence anyone who hasn't asked to see their papers , lets make them sew a nice crescent onto all their clothes so we can easily identify them .

Ohh a holocaust reference. That must have taken a lot of thought for you to come up with. ~:rolleyes:

Non-assimilated immigrants can pose a threat to a democratic society if they dont share the same values of that society.

[BDC]

It's not going to happen. A couple of generations, once the ties are severed (and it will happen, even if it has to be helped along the way - like in Denmark, although I personally don't think that's too great an idea), and people are pretty well integrated. This terrorism stuff isn't helping, but it will happen.

In Denmark there are very strict controls on people marrying outsiders and then living with them in Denmark - which I can see the reasoning behind (stops arranged marriages etc) but strikes me as an infringement of rights. If I want to marry a foreigner, they should be able to live at home with me.

[InsaneApache]

You know I used to think of myself of a conservative... (hell I voted for Thatcher 3 times) but reading the cons from the USA ...I think I fall into the liberal camp...ohhh the ignomany..... ~:eek:

[Ser Clegane]

Non-assimilated immigrants can pose a threat to a democratic society if they dont share the same values of that society.

Actually I even agree to some extent with that statement (surprise, surprise ~:) ). While I do not buy into the fear that "Western Christian culture" will be destroyed by immigrants, we certainly should take care that immigrants show more willingness to integrate into the society they physically became part of (however, I also think that the society they come into should also show the willingness to integrate them).
I love and enjoy cultural diversity - but cultural diversity should mean that we have various cultures that live together and share their distinctive features (without completely giving up to many) - it should never lead to the development of ghettos and various cultures living in parallel worlds with limited contact, forming sub-societies within a country.
That would indedd be a threat to a democratic society.

[King of Atlantis]

the ira is evil, and they are horrible for the acts the commited, but at least the dont want the world to bow before them.

[Marcellus]

There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east. Now if you see nothing wrong with that and believe that their society is just as good as ours and dont mind it replacing ours then what can I say?

And how exactly do you think that they are going to do this? At the moment they can kill people. They can't all force us to convert to their twisted version is Islam. So terrorists can't 'replace our society'.

[PanzerJaeger]

Actually I even agree to some extent with that statement (surprise, surprise ). While I do not buy into the fear that "Western Christian culture" will be destroyed by immigrants, we certainly should take care that immigrants show more willingness to integrate into the society they physically became part of (however, I also think that the society they come into should also show the willingness to integrate them).
I love and enjoy cultural diversity - but cultural diversity should mean that we have various cultures that live together and share their distinctive features (without completely giving up to many) - it should never lead to the development of ghettos and various cultures living in parallel worlds with limited contact, forming sub-societies within a country.
That would indedd be a threat to a democratic society.

I know when I came to America and wanted to be a citizen I had to know more US history and civics than most US kids know.I was really impressed.

Is it the same way in Germany and the rest of Europe? If i remember right, i saw on german tv there was a small contraversy over that kind of thing, but I may be wrong.

[Ser Clegane]

I know when I came to America and wanted to be a citizen I had to know more US history and civics than most US kids know.I was really impressed.

Is it the same way in Germany and the rest of Europe? If i remember right, i saw on german tv there was a small contraversy over that kind of thing, but I may be wrong.

To my knowledge this is not the case in Germany - but to some extent such a thing might actually be a good idea, especially learning the language should be mandatory as it is not only the key to successful integration but also an indicator of how willing a person is to integrate (and learning a language does not mean that you are going to give up your own culture).

There has indeed been some controversy in Germany and our conservative oarty, the CDU/CSU invented the term "Leitkultur" to which immigrants should adhere - I do not want to insinuate any motives here, but IMO (and a lot of other people's opinion as well) this term was a very poor choice, as it somehow has a very old-fashioned touch that might evoke some negative connotations (i.e. it provokes associations with a certain period in our history ~;) ) - and as always, a poor choice of words distracts from the actual, and necessary, discussion (typical for Germany).

[Steppe Merc]

I do think that learning a language that the country you live in is very important. It is difficult to get a good job when you can't speak the same language that everyone else does, it's just common sense. It is fine if they continue to speak and teach their children their language, but it's just logical to speak the same langauge as everyone else wherever you are living.

[Marcellus]

I do think that learning a language that the country you live in is very important. It is difficult to get a good job when you can't speak the same language that everyone else does, it's just common sense. It is fine if they continue to speak and teach their children their language, but it's just logical to speak the same langauge as everyone else wherever you are living.

I would definitely agree with you on that point. Learning the country's language is vital for integration.

[Don Corleone]

Just for the record;

Indonesians don't need any help with sex or reproduction.... ~D

bmolsson is a Swede and will always be one. Even though he have adapted to the Indonesian passion for sex and reproduction...... ~;)

I thought you were an Indonesian muslim with multiple wives. Which is it?

[Don Corleone]

I would definitely agree with you on that point. Learning the country's language is vital for integration.

Forcing people to learn English is racist. Just ask La Rasa!

Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!

One question I've always had for La Rasa, and other "USA is a Latino country" groups... isn't it equally racist for them to not make their website and literature available in Russian, Chinese and Arabic, let alone English...

[Tribesman]

Redleg Looks like someone is atrolling -
Does it ?
Oh my someone needs to drink some ale
Wrong country , you cannot get decent Ale in this country , but I will be drinking Ale next month , until then I shall stick to the Porter ~:cheers:

Ohh a holocaust reference. That must have taken a lot of thought for you to come up with.
Is it a holocaust reference Panzer , or is it a comparison of what you are proposing by denying citizens of a country their rights based solely on their personal religion ?

Because you misunderstand me. Its not the biological but the ethics of western civilization Im worried about losing. There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east.
Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?
Or for that matter what is the relevance of any of the points (most of which are entirely spurious especially the sewage system and emptying landscape) in the article to radical Muslims ?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Originally posted in Spanish
Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!

Yeah! My pitiful 3 years of very lax high-school Spanish have paid off! I vaguely understand! W00t!

Ahem. Don, you are right as ever. Not that it'll change much. ~:handball:

[Byzantine Prince]

=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.


Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?


And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.
I'm not talking about other religions. To me they are all equally worthless. In Europe white europeans are not converting to Islam, so even that point is void. Seeing as most prefer atheism, there's nothing there that allows for debauchery that hasn't already existed when everyone was Christian.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.



Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.
I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

The article is stupid. Period. :book:


Gawain; Rebuttle?...

Or do I admit that I am right?

[Marshal Murat]

Being in Florida, there is always a problem with Mexican Immigrants (aliens cought)
There are Mexicans who are legal. It's the illegal ones I'm worried about.
They come to this country, speaking Spanish, and work in the fields all day, then go home with an american dollar in their pockets.
Well, the problem is that they don't become citizens, so they don't speak English , and if they get in trouble, they can't speak for themselves, they also exploit the system by sending their children to schools, and have the tax payers of America send their child through.
So support bill 997, now in the House of Representatives :D

Anyway, the illegal immigrants also have a effect of the votes. They can waltz up to a voting booth in Texas, say "I'm American Citizen" vote for the guy who gives you rights that your not entitled to, such as driving permits, etc. The voting authorities can't do anything about it, and the politicians are exploiting a demographic.

Thats also why I support the volunteers along the Mexican Arizona/New Mexico/ Texas/ California border. If you want to become Americans, ask. Otherwise, go to your leader, tell them to "go to hell", and form your own demographic to influence the vote. Then form your nation into a land of milk and honey, and be content.

[Marcellus]

Forcing people to learn English is racist.

I'm not forcing everyone in the world to speak English, I'm simply saying that if you are going to live in a country, then you should at least have basic communication skills sufficient to integrate into the society in a reasonable way. And I'm not saying that you have to know English before you enter the country, just that you should make an effort to learn it at some point.


and work in the fields all day

contributing to your economy, and presumably paying taxes (if they are not, then you really should be prosecuting them)


They can waltz up to a voting booth in Texas, say "I'm American Citizen"

Do you not actually check whether someone is registered to vote before letting them? Becuase if you don't, then you really should.

[Marshal Murat]

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)
Aliens and outsourcing seem to be the economic problems of America.
Aliens, Indians, and Chinese all work for less. Thus the buisnesses decide to employ them.

Aliens will work for squat, to be a bathroom cleaner, janitor, etc. while the rest of America will work for a certain wage, unions, etc. The influx in southern california (Los Angeles) has created a large group of Mexicans who join gangs (maybe a sterotype) and then they can stay in America, and the police can do little to stop you.
Maybe the Mexicans can be depoted to France, and work for squat, and add to the population!

I'll probably be called racist for "hating mexicans" or being "anti-mexican"
Hey, your opinion.

[Marcellus]

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)

You're not allowed to ask them if they are a US citizen? It sounds a bit stupid, IMO.

[Marshal Murat]

There Texans! All they care about is
a)cattle
B)ranch
c)BBQ
d)hot chicks
e)good old America
Which is what many believe in as well.
Anyway, a election monitor, or whatever at a polling place cannot ask anyone if they are a United States citizen.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain; Rebuttle?...

Or do I admit that I am right?...

Sorry unlike you I have to go to work to feed my face and pay the rent.


Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

I dont. Hey how many Romans do you know? Once your population drops below a certain level you will dissapear.


He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.

Because of immigration? Go ahead give me a few.


Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?

Well from judging your posts here I must say yours seem to be sadly lacking but thats not Im talking about. My point is you have no understanding of what makes christains tick.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.

Well thats not how it was when I grew up and thats certainly not what christains are taught. There has never nor will there ever be a theocracy here yet what you say will never happen used to be the norm.


I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

The only thing I can deduce from this is that basicly your just a miserable person ~D


Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?

It means were dissappearing. There is a good chance our way of life could dissappear as well. Geez if we were spotted owls you would be all worried about how to save us.

[Redleg]

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)

You are wrong.

[Marshal Murat]

COuld you explain, and inform the general public.

[Redleg]

COuld you explain, and inform the general public.

Well first you will have to address what exactly you were refering to about asking for citizenship.

I work in Texas and as part of my job - I interview people, and on the application it states are you a citizen of the United States, if not do you have a legal right to work in the country?

Then when you get a driver license - last time I did anyway - you had to provide a social security number for the driver license. Which while not a direct way to ask and not fool-proof - because there are fraudlent SSN out there - it is an indirect way to ask someone their citizenship. Motor Voter is activitly pursued in Texas - and yes any legal immigrant can get a diver license and sometimes if the clerk is not paying attention they get a voter registration card also.

And finally when I went to vote - you must show your voter registration card - or if it is not in your procession - you must show a valid photo identification.

[Byzantine Prince]

I dont. Hey how many Romans do you know? Once your population drops below a certain level you will dissapear.

You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.



Well thats not how it was when I grew up and thats certainly not what christains are taught.
I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist. It may have been all the radical philosophy I've been readin the past year or it may just have been my personal enlightenment(or a compbination), but I feel great and liberated nontheless.



It means were dissappearing. There is a good chance our way of life could dissappear as well. Geez if we were spotted owls you would be all worried about how to save us.

Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.

If every couple only has 1 child there is no way you can survive. Eventually you will have the last man and woman if your lucky because as soon as you run out of 1 gender its over. Sooner or later your going to have to raise the birth rate.


I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist.
Why. I hate to say it but in that case your giving atheists a bad name. Most here seem to have the same values as the religious peeps here for the most part. But you seem very self centered and callous. Certainly its good to face reality but Im afraid you look at the darkside too much young grasshopper. The darkside is strong.


Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.

No its correct. You can deny were a dissappearing breed all you like. The facts speak differently.

[Byzantine Prince]

If every couple only has 1 child there is no way you can survive. Eventually you will have the last man and woman if your lucky because as soon as you run out of 1 gender its over. Sooner or later your going to have to raise the birth rate.
Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?


Why. I hate to say it but in that case your giving atheists a bad name. Most here seem to have the same values as the religious peeps here for the most part.
LMAO! Then they are not really atheists. Atheism means belief in nothing to do with religion. I'm nihilist to boot, don't expect to agree with me on anything in this manner, I probably won't even consider is valid.


But you seem very self centered and callous.
Precisely. My nihilistic nature doesn't allow me to think about others in a way that doesn't affect me. I am confortable with it though, more then Christianity to say the least.


Certainly its good to face reality but Im afraid you look at the darkside too much young grasshopper. The darkside is strong.
I don't believe in Star Wars. ~D
I don't believe in evil either.



No its correct. You can deny were a dissappearing breed all you like. The facts speak differently.
I don't deny that we are dissapearing(the white race). I am making an argument as to why the article you posted is wrong in it's evidence, to support the viewpoint you (and I) want to project.

Just to clarify: I agree that the white race in crtain continents or parts of continents will eclipse because we have lower birth rates then other nationalities from poorer nations. But it is because they have a low standard of living that their birth rates are high. This is my opinion which I believe to be absolutely correct.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?

It was you who claimed that they wouldnt go extinct if they only allowed one child per couple not me.


LMAO! Then they are not really atheists.

Really. How do you know?


theism means belief in nothing to do with religion.

No it dosent.

[Tribesman]

Quote:
It means were dissappearing.
And what the hell has that got to do with radical Islam ?
What is it you are on about ? Are you trying to link birth rates to the war on terror now ?
so what is your topic about the preservation of the "white race" whatever you think that is , or radical Islam taking over the world .
Or is everything connected to fundamentalists in your mind .

As for your reply to Byzantines thing about the "sewage problem" in Germany....Because of immigration? .....rubbish , that is just another example of spurious points in the original article , it has nothing to do with immigration , it is (specific to Germany) connected to re-unification , and general rural decline as evident in any modern country . It is internal migration due to changes in work practices .

[Byzantine Prince]

As for your reply to Byzantines thing about the "sewage problem" in Germany....Because of immigration? .....rubbish , that is just another example of spurious points in the original article , it has nothing to do with immigration , it is (specific to Germany) connected to re-unification , and general rural decline as evident in any modern country . It is internal migration due to changes in work practices .
No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens. ~;)

Nice work Gawain, you've convinced me. ~D

[Tribesman]

No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens.
Well since sewage systems don't really develop problems with under capacity , only over capacity , unless of course they are faulty in the first place , it just shows that the author is ....ummmm... full of excrement ~;)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims. Is that the best arguement you can come up with?

[Tribesman]

I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims.

Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?

And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....

Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.

So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.

Howling at the moon indeed ~D ~D ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?

How many times do I have to explain that I post articles to start debates. I dont agree with everything everyone says in these postsa.


And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....

I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.


So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.

Read the above. I havent been warning that immigration is causing sewage problems in Europe but that the indigenous population is declining.



Howling at the moon indeed

Indeed and your proving my point for me. ~D

[Tribesman]

I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.
Then why don't you post your own views in a clear manner instead of posting dubious claims by an ex-con ?

the indigenous population is declining.
So what ? whats new ? populations change , birth rates fluctuate .

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Then why don't you post your own views in a clear manner instead of posting dubious claims by an ex-con ?

I do after the article.


So what ? whats new ? populations change , birth rates fluctuate .

Nothings new. Again if we were some endangered animal species youd be saying we must be saved.

[Tribesman]

Nothings new. Again if we were some endangered animal species youd be saying we must be saved.
Oh so you are saying the white christian race is an endangereds species , but what exactly is this white christian race that you are talking about ?

[Steppe Merc]

If the human race were going to go extinct, I'd be worried. But us as a species, aren't going to go extinct for a while (probably).

[PanzerJaeger]

Oh so you are saying the white christian race is an endangereds species , but what exactly is this white christian race that you are talking about ?

Its pretty self explanatory isnt it? White Christians..

The argument is over cultural preservation. I happen to believe western culture is something worth saving, although theres nothing wrong with welcoming ideas from all cultures.

[Tribesman]

Its pretty self explanatory isnt it? White Christians..
Yes , very explanatory , racist religionist crap .
Thanks for clearing that up for me Panzer . ~:cheers:

[BDC]

About time the Anglo-Saxon population had more new blood here. The lower end of society is starting to go a bit stale. And the upper end went stale about 800 years ago.

[Don Corleone]

Well, I'm going to make a couple of very un-PC observations, call me a racist should you desire:

-When middle easterners talk about preserving their culture and not inter-marrying, the Left gives them a pass, saying 'of course, they should be free to preserve their culture'. When those of European descent say the same things, they're racist bigots. Not exactly a fair standard. Either we all have to disolve our cultural ideosynchracies, or none of us should have to.

-When you move to a foreign culture, it's not unreasonable for those people to expect you to at least honor that culture, if not adopt it. If you really believe the great bastion of cultural tolerance, Tehran, would allow me to trot down the street with a Paris Hilton T-shirt swigging a budweiser, wearing a cross, you're crazy. Heck, I couldn't even get away with that in Damascus, and they're supposed to be a secular state.

-It's easy to preach on about cultural tolerance when you're not the ones having to make sacrafices. Last I checked, and I go to Dublin & Limerick quite often, Ireland didn't look all that different, population wise, then it would have 100 years ago. I'm not saying that you're not open to outsiders, but I've noticed that there's a tip point with immigration where people start to feel threatened. Even black people in America resent the Latinos moving here, and if anything, you'd think they'd join forces and boot the gringos/honkeys out of power.

Let's face it... when immigrants come to a country, some want to join the new culture, and some want to change the existing culture to match theirs. This isn't a statement about Mexicans or Middle-Easterners, it's a fact, be it Irish, Italians, or any of the other waves of immigrants that America has experienced. The local population tends to resent that, and it's a bit high and mighty of you to call them names for not being willing to abandon everything they've ever known to adopt an imported culture.

[Steppe Merc]

How can you differintiate the ones who want to integrate, and the ones that do not?

[PanzerJaeger]

Yes , very explanatory , racist religionist crap .
Thanks for clearing that up for me Panzer .

Lol theres nothing wrong with wanting to preserve a particular culture or recognizing the race and religion that perpetuates that culture to the greatest extent.

Religionist? Thats a new one for the books.. ~D

As ive said before, such buzzwords are only used to stifle discussion.

[Byzantine Prince]

I don't see what Christianity has to do with any european culture. If anything religion has always supressed culture. Getting rid of it is the only way we will ever progress our cultures.

Yes, [illigal] immigrants will eventually overwhelm our populations and change the racial features. But they cannot gain political power so long as they are illigal immigrants. It's america's fault for allowing these people to vote and be able to get jobs there with papers, not theirs.

Yes a lot of them will probably intermarry to get papers even if they are illigal, but most will not, because we will be to atheist for them. ~;)
They will be the conservatives, ironically enough and will want to keep other immigrants, possibly from Asia and Africa out.

BP ~;p

[Steppe Merc]

It's america's fault for allowing these people to vote and be able to get jobs there with papers, not theirs.
Um... I don't get it. It is the fault of the rich people that use illegal immigrants as a cheap work force, not neccassarily America itself's fault.


I don't see what Christianity has to do with any european culture. If anything religion has always supressed culture. Getting rid of it is the only way we will ever progress our cultures.
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with it.

[PanzerJaeger]

Now Prince, you very well know that the Christian church preserved vast amounts of culture and knowledge during the dark ages. Christian funded schools helped Europe recover from the brain drain of that time and has been very influential in learning philosophy ever since.

If it werent for Christian preservation and advances in knowledge and thinking, you probably wouldnt have the philosophical standing to denounce Christian teachings. ~;)

Also, the greatest advances in the Muslim world regarding science and thinking were during times when that religion was rapidly growing.

[Tribesman]

Lol theres nothing wrong with wanting to preserve a particular culture or recognizing the race and religion that perpetuates that culture to the greatest extent.
What religion and culture , what race ?
So I go back to my earlier statement , what the hell is a white christian ?

How dark has your skin pigmentation got to be before you are no longer White ? which branch of Christianity do you have to follow to be a Christian that prepetuates that culture to the greatest extent , how many generations do you have to live in Europe for before you are a European ?

It's easy to preach on about cultural tolerance when you're not the ones having to make sacrafices. Last I checked, and I go to Dublin & Limerick quite often, Ireland didn't look all that different, population wise, then it would have 100 years ago.
Thats strange Don since there are about 20 different nationalities where I am working at the moment and they make up nearly half the workforce there .
BTW why the hell would you want to go to Limerick ? or Dublin for that matter ~D ~D ~D

[Don Corleone]

One of my company's largets design & manufacturing facilities is in Limerick. Dublin, because it's the 'big city'. I like Dublin actually, but I know a lot of people don't. My favorite city though is Killarney (I know, I'm a bloody tourist, shoot me). I'm also a HUGE of Clifden.

Well, no offense, but I find it hard to swallow that your company is perfectly representative of Irish population as a whole. You think you could find 20 different nationalities in all of Mayo, let alone any one village?

[Papewaio]

Modern academic use
The term "Dark Ages" is expressive in a different sense today having narrowed somewhat as knowledge has increased. Namely, the events of centuries before roughly 1000 C.E. often seem "dark" to us, due to their paucity of historical records compared with later times—not the entire period Petrarch conceived nor the more familiar High Middle Ages. Late 5th and 6th century Britain for instance, at the height of the Saxon invasions, might well be numbered among "the darkest of the Dark Ages," with the equivalent of a near-total news blackout compared with the Roman era before or even with the centuries following. Further east, the same was true in the formerly Roman province of Dacia, where history after the Roman withdrawal went unrecorded for centuries as Slavs, Avars, Bulgars and others struggled for supremacy in the Danube basin, and events there are still disputed. Historians today also use terms such as "Late Antiquity" and "Early Middle Ages" or "Migration Period" to describe this earlier period.

Meanwhile, the Byzantine Empire and the Abbasid Caliphate experienced Ages that were Golden rather than Dark. Consequently, while usage of these terms varies, including from one place to another (see below), one trend has been for the two terms, Dark Ages and Middle Ages, that were once synonymous in the minds of early humanists to be differentiated and applied to two distinct (if consecutive) periods. Ironically, while Petrarch's concept of a "Dark Age" corresponded to a mostly "Christian" period following pagan Rome, what most users of the term label the "Dark Ages" today are those least Christianized, when events in parts (though not all) of Europe were dominated by the activities of pagan tribes.

One of the ironies of the Dark Ages is that a lot of literature, mathematics and philosophy was preserved and built up on in the Middle East.

Later on when the Normans conquoured Sciliy there was a couple of generations of peaceful mixing between Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim academics that was a great flourishing.


... Sicily was then ruled by the Byzantine Empire until the Arab conquest of AD 827-965. For a brief period (662 - 668) during Byzantine rule Syracuse was the imperial capital, until Constans II was assassinated.

The cultural diversity and religious tolerance of the period of Muslim rule under the Kalbid dynasty continued under the Normans who conquered the island in 1060-1090 (raising its status to that of a kingdom in 1130), and the south German Hohenstaufen dynasty which ruled from 1194, adopting Palermo as its principal seat from 1220.

If anything cultural diversity and free flow of ideas is where we see flourishing countries. It is where all knowledge is set and know where we have stagnation of intellect.

[Byzantine Prince]

Now Prince, you very well know that the Christian church preserved vast amounts of culture and knowledge during the dark ages. Christian funded schools helped Europe recover from the brain drain of that time and has been very influential in learning philosophy ever since.
Huh? Early Christians destroyed greek temples. The masterpieces of western architecture. Do you know how many manuscripts they burned because they refered to paganism? Pretty much all we are missing today is because of early Christians and the burning of the Alexandrian Library.


If it werent for Christian preservation and advances in knowledge and thinking, you probably wouldnt have the philosophical standing to denounce Christian teachings. ~;)
Which Christian teachings exactly? St.Augustine's? St.Paul's? IMO they were both unitelligent persons who contradicted themselves. Not to mention that St.Paul wrote passages that condoned slavery, and killing of homosexuals in the Bible. Yes if you search thoroughly enough, you'll find them.



Also, the greatest advances in the Muslim world regarding science and thinking were during times when that religion was rapidly growing.
The muslim world did some great good when they saved(copied in arabic for us to translate back to english) 90% of western civilizations most important documents that would have otherwise been lost.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Pretty much all we are missing today is because of early Christians and the burning of the Alexandrian Library.
.

What do christains have to do with the buring of the library? I guess we should blame the Romans then for destroying all this.


The muslim world did some great good when they saved(copied in arabic for us to translate back to english) 90% of western civilizations most important documents that would have otherwise been lost.

Back this up.

[Steppe Merc]

BP, many monks were also great scholars, and many did save a lot of literary works, as well as teaching people different languages.
But as PJ pointed out, when Islam was flourishing, their culture was flourishing as well.
But it is important to realize that the Church's actions were different through out time, as well as each church handeled things differently. So while the early Church might have destroyed some stuff, they also helped to preserve and pass on other things.

[bmolsson]

What do christains have to do with the buring of the library?


They used fake library cards ??

[Gawain of Orkeny]

They used fake library cards ??

I think it burned in BC you know before Christ. So I doubt there were many christains around.

[Marshal Murat]

Christianity was the belief that Christ will come again
So if its BC (follow me here)
Then it would be assumed that it would be Jewish believers, or one of the many other religions that was part of Alexandria.

[PanzerJaeger]

What religion and culture , what race ?
So I go back to my earlier statement , what the hell is a white christian ?

Its really very simple Tribesman.

A caucasion(male or female) who follows the teachings of Christ.


How dark has your skin pigmentation got to be before you are no longer White ? which branch of Christianity do you have to follow to be a Christian that prepetuates that culture to the greatest extent , how many generations do you have to live in Europe for before you are a European ?

Your race is a very important aspect of who you are no matter if you want to accept that or not. Youve got to give this information on countless forms throughout your life, so dont act as if its somehow wrong to recognize race. Your own government does.

[bmolsson]

Christianity was the belief that Christ will come again
So if its BC (follow me here)
Then it would be assumed that it would be Jewish believers, or one of the many other religions that was part of Alexandria.

Maybe there was a Christ before that and Jesus is just the rerun ?? ~;)

[Tribesman]

Its really very simple Tribesman.
A caucasion(male or female) who follows the teachings of Christ.

Yes very simple Panzer someone from European , N.African or middle eastern ancestry who follows the teachings of christ , so the Egyptian Copts are now White , So are Iraqi christians . Well thats me stumped , I was worrying about some of those Southern Europeans not being white enough to fit the criteria ~D ~D ~D

You think you could find 20 different nationalities in all of Mayo, let alone any one village?
Well next time you are on your way to Clifden swing round the Corrib to do some sightseeing , you will find the famous "Quiet man" village of Cong on its northen shores , see for yourself . Then head further North to Ballyhauniss .

Actually when you are driving up from Limerick try to time a stop in Gort to coincide with the local Brazilian festival .

[PanzerJaeger]

Yes very simple Panzer someone from European , N.African or middle eastern ancestry who follows the teachings of christ , so the Egyptian Copts are now White , So are Iraqi christians . Well thats me stumped , I was worrying about some of those Southern Europeans not being white enough to fit the criteria

No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?

[Ja'chyra]

No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?

Condescension aside, I think it would be very hard to delineate races

[PanzerJaeger]

I work with demographics a lot, and racial makeup of an area is a huge part of that.

Here is an excerpt from a city im doing market research on:


As of the census of 2000, there are 85,781 people, 39,288 households, and 19,683 families residing in the CDP. The population density is 878.1/km² (2,274.1/mi²). There are 42,794 housing units at an average density of 438.0/km² (1,134.5/mi²). The racial makeup of the CDP is 77.55% White, 12.04% African American, 0.18% Native American, 3.29% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 4.94% from other races, and 1.95% from two or more races. 9.93% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race.

Some people seem to see any mention of race as derogatory or unnecessary, but that isnt the case at all. Being "color-blind" does not actually mean you cannot recognize race.

[Steppe Merc]

No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?
PJ, some of the people are of Turkish or Iranian ancestory, not necassarily Arabic.
edit: And Iranians (well the original Iranian speakers) were "white". Not sure what Turks are considered.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

PJ, some of the people are of Turkish or Iranian ancestory, not necassarily Arabic.

Well then their not white christains. See even you can tell the difference. ~D

[Steppe Merc]

Well the original Iranian speakers were "white". But not Christians, no.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well the original Iranian speakers were "white". But not Christians, no.

See you can even recognise race from religion ~:)

[Don Corleone]

If we're talking about Western culture being preserved, I agree and I'm on board.

But I'm also on Tribesman's side... what does it mean to be 'white'? It's a convention that got adopted in the United States that nowadays we think means European, but because I'm not sure everyone understands, that according to the folks that came up with the 'white race', the following peoples are NOT white:

-Italians
-Spaniards (from Spain, not just Latinos)
-Greeks
-Slavs
-Irish (weren't even considered full human beings for a large part of America's history)
-French

Basically, the following racial groups comprise 'the white meta-race': AngloSaxons, Scots, Germanic folk (Dutch included), Nordic people.

Groups I'm unsure of:
Basques, Finns & Hungarians as they're none of the above.

And before you freak out and say 'that's not what I meant, of course French & Irish are white', no, they are not. White was developed by the USA, and religion (being protestant) factored into it as much as skin color or facial features. The Klan hated Catholics as bad as Jews or blacks, trust me. My grandfather got shot in the chest by the Klan, just because he was Irish. And that was in the 30's.

Another issue I have with 'the White race', is the idea of multiple bloodlines. What if my father was German, back to the days of Atilla, but my mother was Nigerian? Would I be white? Of course not, because we have that silly Louisiana law that's a 'one drop of impurity means you're not white' foolishness.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

If we're talking about Western culture being preserved, I agree and I'm on board.

Thats my main concern .Actually Id love to see the day when there was so many mixed marriages that we indeed would only be one race what ever color that winds up or at least that we didnt pay any attention to it other than we do with say a horse of a differnt color. But isnt diversity also a good thing?

[Steppe Merc]

Well then I'm not white. I am very pale, and have blond hair, and blue eyes, and look very Germanic, but I'm half Polish. Thus, because I have Slavic blood, I wouldn't be considered white.
And does anyone know what Turkish blood would be considered, just out of curosity?


Well then their not white christains. See even you can tell the difference. ~D

See you can even recognise race from religion ~:)
Yup, I'm very talented that way. ~;)

[Don Corleone]

My grandparents were Irish & Italian immigants, so I'm not white either, Steppe. ~:cheers: This is why I get so furious with Irish, Italian & French people joining the Klan and going on & on about the 'white race'. Yeah dude, you might be able to be their servants, but you ain't white!

[Kagemusha]

Well then I'm not white. I am very pale, and have blond hair, and blue eyes, and look very Germanic, but I'm half Polish. Thus, because I have Slavic blood, I wouldn't be considered white.
And does anyone know what Turkish blood would be considered, just out of curosity?



Yup, I'm very talented that way. ~;)

The Turks are their own language group called Altai Ugrig. :bow:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

people joining the Klan and going on & on about the 'white race'. Yeah dude, you might be able to be their servants, but you ain't white!

Id like to know how being catholic removes you from the white race?

[Dâriûsh]

PJ, some of the people are of Turkish or Iranian ancestory, not necassarily Arabic.
edit: And Iranians (well the original Iranian speakers) were "white". I have pale skin and blue eyes. ~;)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I have pale skin and blue eyes.

Of course you doas your part of the master race.


Ary·an adj.

Word History: It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *rya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian rn (ahr), “(Land) of the Iranians,” from the genitive plural of r, “Iranian”). The variant *rya- is found unchanged in Sanskrit, where it referred to the upper crust of ancient Indian society. These words became known to European scholars in the 18th century. The shifting of meaning that eventually led to the present-day sense started in the 1830s, when Friedrich Schlegel, a German scholar who was an important early Indo-Europeanist, came up with a theory that linked the Indo-Iranian words with the German word Ehre, “honor,” and older Germanic names containing the element ario-, such as the Swiss warrior Ariovistus who was written about by Julius Caesar. Schlegel theorized that far from being just a designation of the Indo-Iranians, the word *arya- had in fact been what the Indo-Europeans called themselves, meaning something like “the honorable people.” (This theory has since been called into question.) Thus “Aryan” came to be synonymous with “Indo-European,” and in this sense entered the general scholarly consciousness of the day. Not much later, it was proposed that the original homeland of the Indo-Europeans had been in northern Europe. From this theory, it was but a small leap to think of the Aryans as having had a northern European physiotype. While these theories were playing themselves out, certain anti-Semitic scholars in Germany took to viewing the Jews in Germany as the main non-Aryan people because of their Semitic roots; a distinction thus arose in their minds between Jews and the “true Aryan” Germans, a distinction that later furnished unfortunate fodder for the racial theories of the Nazis.

[PanzerJaeger]

If there are no such thing as races, why do black people get extra points on college admissions?

Don, you are thinking of the white race in terms of how racists have defined it. However, your own government and countless other reputable institutions recognize race as a distinctive feature of a person.

[Steppe Merc]

referred to a people who looked vastly different.
No they didn't. They were likely Celtic looking. Most were probably light brown hair, some had red hair, some had blond, some had black. Different tribes looked different. For example, Scythians were lighter than Persians.
But they were "white".

[Kagemusha]

Am i white?I have green eyes and blond hair but we Finns arent Indo-Europeans,Nor Mongols.We are Finno-Ugrig.

[Dâriûsh]

Of course you doas your part of the master race.

Cool.

[Don Corleone]

Id like to know how being catholic removes you from the white race?

Don't ask me, ask the geniuses that invented the 'white race' to begin with. Oh wait, you can't. They're all dead. I never said it made sense. In fact, my point is that the 'white race' makes no sense. And neither does the black race, PJ. I don't believe in race, and I refuse to check any box (or I put down that I'm Inuit).

[Byzantine Prince]

Why not believe in race? It's a social thing like 'male'. Doesn't mean anything other then it's something you look like. If we were to be that concerned with profiling then why allow sex to be invloved at all. We are all persons aren't we? ~:)

I want to know since when are ignorant klansmen in the US experts on race, going out and preaching that Greeks aren't white? If anything we are superior to any other race because of the things we have acomplished, if we were to be that arrogant. Not that I'm saying that of course. ~D

About Iranians, they are not really white. I don't know exactly how to describe their colour but they darker not in a brown way but a black(real black) shading, typically of course, there's always the odd one or two people. To say otherwise is as intelligent as the nazi's clueless propaganda.

About Turks, I'm not sure if they are white or not, because they are so mixed that they have practically become one of the people's of Asia minor, I'm not sure if they can be classified as European, since the greeks always considered what is today Turkey(most of it) to be Asian domain.

And no having blue eyes and blond does not mean you are somehow more pure in being white. Swedish have black hair, brown eyes a little less then Greeks let's say, but the swedes live closer to the poll where that trait would gain more dominance. It's just a genetical trait. It's actually very similar to the trait of the Kodiak bear. It's usually black but every once in a while it comes out completely white. This is not because it mixed with other types of bears, but because it's predesposed by nature to change color randomly in generations.

[Steppe Merc]

About Iranians, they are not really white. I don't know exactly how to describe their colour but they darker not in a brown way but a black(real black) shading, typically of course, there's always the odd one or two people. To say otherwise is as intelligent as the nazi's clueless propaganda.
I'm talking not about today's Iranians, but people like the Persians, Parthians, Scythians, Sakae, Dahae, Sarmatians etc.


About Turks, I'm not sure if they are white or not, because they are so mixed that they have practically become one of the people's of Asia minor, I'm not sure if they can be classified as European, since the greeks always considered what is today Turkey(most of it) to be Asian domain.
They wouldn't be European. But not European does not equal not white. As I said, Iranians were white (Persians, etc.) They were not European however.

[Tribesman]

No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?
Yes you really could find a web site that delinates the races,but you could also find a web-site that shows that humans are really from the planet Theta.
Besides which you said "Caucasian" describe that word ......Look in a dictionary . :book:
So since I assume that you cannot make any claim apart from pigmentation of the skin , then you must judge people by the colour of their skin , if you judge people by the colour of their skin then what is the word to describe that ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So since I assume that you cannot make any claim apart from pigmentation of the skin , then you must judge people by the colour of their skin , if you judge people by the colour of their skin then what is the word to describe that ?

You really are clever with words and missleading people. Youve made it an art. The only thing we judge people by the color of their skin for is the color of their skin. Its come to the point where if someone asks you to describe that man over there and you say well hes black for starts your a racist.Its come to wear soon the police wont be able to ask you what color the perpetrator of a crime was because you will call him a racist.

Dogs are all one species but there are many breeds. Humans are no different.

[PanzerJaeger]

Tribesman,

Youre being a bit thickheaded on this one.. thats ok, ill be patient.

You used a very interesting word in your last post:


So since I assume that you cannot make any claim apart from pigmentation of the skin , then you must judge people by the colour of their skin , if you judge people by the colour of their skin then what is the word to describe that ?

You'll have to show me where I said I judge anybody by the color of their skin.

I am simply trying to point out to you that race is a perfectly viable distinguishing characteristic.

Race is information that governments, demographers, and a number of other groups use to characterize populations.

Are you saying that world governments are inherently racist for recognizing that there are different races of people?

(Personally I think your on a ultra politically correct bender, but thats just me. ~;) )

[Tribesman]

I am simply trying to point out to you that race is a perfectly viable distinguishing characteristic.
Fine , then show me the disytinguishing Charachtereistic that defines a White Christian .
North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white.
You defined white as caucasian ~:confused:

[King of Atlantis]

Fine , then show me the disytinguishing Charachtereistic that defines a White Christian.

White and christian are too differnt means of classification.


You defined white as caucasian

Sure caucasian isnt really the name for the white "breed", but it is used as such by general society.


White people are genrally considered anybody of european descent. The execption for this would be hispanics as the also have a lot of indian/black blood mixed around, thus they aren't really white, though people from spain are.

There is no other term for white people other than white, though it means much more than there skin color.

[Marshal Murat]

Wow, from a problem with Berlin birth rates to how to define people, and the description of their color and race. Wow, can someone show the progressive timeline for this?

[Don Corleone]

Guys, repeat after me. There is no such thing as the 'white race'. It was invented by a bunch of guys who considered 'white to mean WASP (white anglo-saxon protestant).

Just because our government is racist and categorizes people according to the color of our skin doesn't make it right or mean we should. This is the way to end affirmative action...quit this stupid artificial distinction.

[Franconicus]

'He's the all american bullet headed saxon mother's son'
(from: The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill, White Album, 1968)
~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D
Trust in Don. Categorizing people is stupid!
:egypt: :indian_brave: :cowboy: :karate: :mickey: :afro: :klingon: :sultan: :sombrero: :santa2: :vulcan:
~D ~D ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Trust in Don. Categorizing people is stupid! etter tell that to all governments and news agencies . But this really would be a good idea as thats the only way Democrats get any votes is by pointing out minorities and panderig to them. Oh thats right there is no suchthing as minorites and at least we can throw out all that stupid hate crime legislation.

[Don Corleone]

Give the man a prize, he finally gets it!!! Race always leads to racism. The way to end racism is to end race distinction (as, when you come down to it, we're all in the human race, no?) Ending race means ending racial quotas, it means ending race based initiatives, it means ending the politics of division, it also means the end of the klan, the end of preferential mortgage lending and I think, it leads to a healing process we desparately need. Rather than talking about African-American or white America, we should be talking about, surprise "AMERICA". (Insert country of choice for America as seen fit).

[PanzerJaeger]

Fine , then show me the disytinguishing Charachtereistic that defines a White Christian .

Being white, and being Christian.

If you dont understand what being white is - talk to a demographer.

If you dont understand what being Christian is - talk to a priest.


Just because our government is racist and categorizes people according to the color of our skin doesn't make it right or mean we should.

~:rolleyes:

[Don Corleone]

Don't roll your eyes at me! ~D

Seriously, do you agree with the University of Michigan Law School admissions policy? Do you agree with quotas? Do you agree with affirmative action? Aren't all of these forms of racism?

[Kagemusha]

Give the man a prize, he finally gets it!!! Race always leads to racism. The way to end racism is to end race distinction (as, when you come down to it, we're all in the human race, no?) Ending race means ending racial quotas, it means ending race based initiatives, it means ending the politics of division, it also means the end of the klan, the end of preferential mortgage lending and I think, it leads to a healing process we desparately need. Rather than talking about African-American or white America, we should be talking about, surprise "AMERICA". (Insert country of choice for America as seen fit).

I agree totally with you Don on this one.Culture is something worth preserving.Race is just an way for putting people in too little boxes.As i mentioned before.I could say that Indoeuropean people ar not white because their language witch is originally from India is originally asian.Only original European people that still exists are Basks and Finno-Ugrig peoples.And i woud never make that kind of statement because to me its just plain stupid. :bow:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I agree totally with you Don on this one.Culture is something worth preserving.Race is just an way for putting people in too little boxes

I think we all pretty much agree on this. I doubt many here are racists. But its human nature to put people and things into little boxes and categorize them. Its a noble thought but is it realistic? We can only hope. In a perfect world it would certainly be so.

[PanzerJaeger]

Seriously, do you agree with the University of Michigan Law School admissions policy? Do you agree with quotas? Do you agree with affirmative action? Aren't all of these forms of racism?

I dont believe in racism, but i do believe that race is an existent distinguishing characteristic. The color of skin is not the only difference between the races. Bone structure(especially facial structure), genetics, susceptibility to certain illness, hair, and a few other things define the races.

There is no conflict between recognizing the differences between the races and believing people should not be judged on those differences.

As I said earlier, i work with demographics a lot, and understanding the different races of a particular area really helps in your general understanding of an area.

Is it racist to want to know if the ancient egyptians were black, arab, or even white? Of course not, it just helps in understanding their origins.

[Steppe Merc]

Egyptians wouldn't have been black...
But Cleopatra would have been white, the Ptolomies (the rulers of Egypt after Alex took over) were all Greeks. Oh wait, that was a hypothetical example... my bad. :embarassed:

Um, I think Don hit it right on the head. But I don't think we are all equal yet, so it would be a bit hard to forget about race when there are still many racists. But ideally, we wouldn't have to worry about it.

[Don Corleone]

The only reason I can possibly see for distinguishing people's race is for medical reasons. Some diseases follow chromosonal patterns and favor one ancestral group, such as sickle-cell anemia. Other than that, what earthly reason do we have for tracking somebody's genetic origins?

Who really cares whether the pharoahs were sub-saharan africans, semitic, arabic, or a race that has died out/been absorbed? The cultural meta-group of 'ancient Egyptians' exists regardless of whether they were darker than me, lighter than me, their hair was curly or straight.

[Steppe Merc]

Well for example, if you are making a game or movie or something that includes them, and you want them too look correct... ~;)

[PanzerJaeger]

Who really cares whether the pharoahs were sub-saharan africans, semitic, arabic, or a race that has died out/been absorbed? The cultural meta-group of 'ancient Egyptians' exists regardless of whether they were darker than me, lighter than me, their hair was curly or straight.

Historians for one.

If as Merc says the general concensus is that they were black, that goes a long way to help understand where they originated from.

If we were to somehow find that many of them were white(not just the greek leaders), that would completely change things.

[Don Corleone]

Well, if you want to go around keeping checklists on people, you're going to have to come up with a more accurate tool than 'race'. The whole concept of 'race' assumes categories that are definable. How would you define somebody who's father is Kenyan and who's mother is Swedish? I know, you'd define them as black, but why? Because they're not white, even though 50% of their genetic material is. ~:confused:

As far as Steppe's movie, one's race should not be a qualifier as to their acting ability. Would you argue that white people should not be allowed to play the title role in Othello?

And historians are hopefully smart enough to temper their discussions with the idea that when two groups come into contact, they mix. If you went to Sicily and looked around, you'd define them to be their own racial group. But they're not. They're polyglots of Greeks, Latins (true Latins), Arabs, Moors, Normans and whoever else has moved in there over the past 2000 years. How would defining a 'sicilian race', because it doesn't quite look like any other, help historians? There's much better ways of tracing origin then eyeballing somebody and saying 'yep, white' or 'nope, black'.

[Steppe Merc]

I said they weren't black, probably... ~;)
But I don't know what the Ancient Egyptians race was really called. But the drawings of them on their tombs and the excavated mummies don't point to African features, though certaintly some of the population probably was.

But yeah, it matters to historians. For example, as someone who cares about history (though I don't know that much about it), I am quite angry that Hannibal is going to be black in a movie. To potray him properly, we need to know what he would have been like (or roughly).

[Don Corleone]

Why would you care that Hannibal is played by a black actor? He was a Carthaginian, which certainly wasn't white. Carthage was settled by the Phoenecians, and whether they were of Sumerian or Semitic background is unclear. What is clear is that Achilles definitely DID NOT look like Brad Pitt (assuming he actually lived). Where was your outrage then?

[PanzerJaeger]

Well, if you want to go around keeping checklists on people, you're going to have to come up with a more accurate tool than 'race'. The whole concept of 'race' assumes categories that are definable. How would you define somebody who's father is Kenyan and who's mother is Swedish? I know, you'd define them as black, but why? Because they're not white, even though 50% of their genetic material is.

That child would be mixed.


As far as Steppe's movie, one's race should not be a qualifier as to their acting ability. Would you argue that white people should not be allowed to play the title role in Othello?

Shakespearian plays are not historical movies. The way the actors present themselves are very different than in a movie that is supposed to depict an actual event or time in history.

Would you find a movie about the civil war where Robert E. Lee was played by a black actor historically acceptable? Would it be credible?

What about a movie about medieval Europe that had an asian man playing the king of England. You wouldnt have a problem with that?

Its not realistic to pretend to be color blind.

[Byzantine Prince]

Why would you care that Hannibal is played by a black actor? He was a Carthaginian, which certainly wasn't white. Carthage was settled by the Phoenecians, and whether they were of Sumerian or Semitic background is unclear.
Carthage was a Pheonecian colony. Where did you get Sumerian, lol. I didn't know Iraqi's lived that far away. :dizzy2:
Oh and Phoenicians are indeed of Semitic breed, so even if Hanibal didn't look as white as a Swedish guy, he would certainly be as white as a Lebanese person, which is pretty close to a greek person.




What is clear is that Achilles definitely DID NOT look like Brad Pitt (assuming he actually lived). Where was your outrage then?
Why not? ~:confused:
In the Iliad he is described as having fair hair and being attractive and strong. That's pretty close to Brad Pitt, although what greeks meant by fair hair was probably less blond then Brad, it's still pretty accurate.

[Idaho]

That child would be mixed.

The point is that we are all 'mixed' and are all continuing to mix. Genetic traits have concentrated in certain areas for political and geographical reasons over the last 100,000 years - but these are just traits, suseptable to being overwritten in the next generation by either a dominant gene pushing the trait to the background or by mutations.

No-one can look at your dna and say 'Swedish' or 'Angolan'. They can say 'probably north European' or 'likely to be west african'.

[PanzerJaeger]

(Troy was a horrible movie.)

[Don Corleone]

Carthage was a Pheonecian colony. Where did you get Sumerian, lol. I didn't know Iraqi's lived that far away. :dizzy2:
Oh and Phoenicians are indeed of Semitic breed, so even if Hanibal didn't look as white as a Swedish guy, he would certainly be as white as a Lebanese person, which is pretty close to a greek person.


Uhm, Phonecia existed in what's now modern day Lebanon & Syria. The Sumerians (as a race, not a government) existed across Mespotomia including: the Babylonians, the Assyrians and the Chaldeans. Last I heard, nobody knew if the Phoenicians were of the Sumerian racial group or the Semitic racial group. And he most certainly would NOT be as white as a modern day Lebanese person, as the Lebanese have had deposits of French genetic material for centuries. But thank you for proving my point. It's a VERY, VERY, VERY tangled thing to try to extrapolate race back more than 2 or 3 generations.

[Byzantine Prince]

Uhm, Phonecia existed in what's now modern day Lebanon & Syria. The Sumerians (as a race, not a government) existed across Mespotomia including: the Babylonians, the Assyrians and the Chaldeans. Last I heard, nobody knew if the Phoenicians were of the Sumerian racial group or the Semitic racial group.
Sumerians stopeed existing more then 1500 years before Hanibal. And they were taken over completely by Semitic cities of southern Iraq. And you know what they did to people back when they took a city. I have never read, not in my Encyclopedia, not anywhere that Phoenicians are Sumerian, which is not a race btw. The reason people know that pheonician are semitic is that their language is similar to judean and arabic. Sumerian language was wiped out, what does that say about their populations.

[Don Corleone]

The Sumerian civilization itself died out in 1500BC, yes, but everything I've ever read has the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Chaldeans & the Assyrians all belonging to the same meta- cultural/language group, which is decidedly NON semitic. And Phoenecia was aroung a LONG, LONG time before Hannibal my friend. I'm no saying I know for a fact that Hannibal had the same chromosonal makeup as Hammurabi or Nimrod, I'm just saying it's a possiblity, and as possible that he shared chromosonal traits with the Jews & other Semites of his day.

And I didn't know Phonecian was classified as a semitic language. Now that I do, I would agree with you, they probably weren't from the same group as their next door neighbors, the Assyrians (who were from the same language/racial group as their forebears, the Sumerians).

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Can you tall me that the aboriginies arent a easily recognised race? The fact that the races have now intermingled doesnt change things.So now were all mutts instead of pure breds thats all. Its not that there are no races but that the world has grown smaller and the lines are beggining to blur. This is a good thing however.

[Kagemusha]

I have to state this.I think the Brazilian women are most beatiful on the face of the earth and you dont get more mixed people in the world. :sweetheart:

[Steppe Merc]

Why would you care that Hannibal is played by a black actor? He was a Carthaginian, which certainly wasn't white. Carthage was settled by the Phoenecians, and whether they were of Sumerian or Semitic background is unclear. What is clear is that Achilles definitely DID NOT look like Brad Pitt (assuming he actually lived). Where was your outrage then?
I was outraged at Brad Pitt's horrible performance and how stupid he looked. The whole movie was very inaccurate.
And I don't know what Hannibal looked like, but it wouldn't be black. That is why trying to figure out the different races is important, so we can try and see what he looked like.

BP, there probably was Sumerian blood mixed in, since no country back then totally destroyed every conquered city. It's far too much work to repopulate an entire city, besides, it would probably lead to more mixing due to the captured wives and rapes. So they wouldn't just die out when their countries fell.

[Byzantine Prince]

The Sumerian civilization itself died out in 1500BC, yes, but everything I've ever read has the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Chaldeans & the Assyrians all belonging to the same meta- cultural/language group, which is decidedly NON semitic.
Oh man are you ever wrong. ~:eek:

In the 3rd millennium bc, Semitic nomads conquered the region and made their inflected tongue, which was closely related to Babylonian, the prevailing language of the land. The Assyrian script was a slightly modified version of the Babylonian cuneiform.


And I didn't know Phonecian was classified as a semitic language. Now that I do, I would agree with you, they probably weren't from the same group as their next door neighbors, the Assyrians (who were from the same language/racial group as their forebears, the Sumerians).
Babylonians, Assyrians, and Phoenicians were all Semites my friend. I have encyclopedic knowledge of this subject.

Sem·ite

Sem·ite [sé mt]
(plural Sem·ites)
n
1. member of Semitic-speaking people: a member of any of several Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East, including the Arab and Jewish peoples, and the ancient Assyrians, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, and Phoenicians

[Don Corleone]

I stand corrected. Either one too many happy hours stands between me and the time that I read my ancient middle eastern history, or I didn't understand what I was reading at the time. Thank you for the enlightenment, and when time allows, I will revisit the matter. However, none of this is relevant to what we were discussing... that the White race is dying out (or should there even be such a thing).

[Kagemusha]

Doesnt anyone else like Brazililian women.Or is just good old vodka taking over. ~:cheers:

[Don Corleone]

I think Brazilian women ARE beautiful. But I don't have a 'type'. I like all women, they just have to be beautiful for their type. ~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek: Erh, I mean, yes dear, you're the only woman that catches my eye... ~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek: now put that gun down and have some chocolate.

The one thing I like about Brazilian women is it appears to be a cultural thing that in Brazil, women's derrieres are given a lot of prominence, and Brazilian women seem more than happy to show them off. This is, of course, a very good thing. ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[Kagemusha]

Watch out for mrs Corleone with those statements. ~;) I either have no type.Hell i like all women. :kiss2: I just thought it would benefit the thread by showing that races suck. ~:cheers: