Change U.S. law on anchor babies

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Article Launched: 06/22/2005 01:00:00 AM

al knight
Change U.S. law on anchor babies
By Al Knight

There's nothing quite as important as timing in politics. A fact that might go unnoticed for years can, at the right moment, help change the direction of national policy.

Consider the issue of anchor babies and what, if anything, should be done about them. Anchor babies, for those not yet familiar with the term, is the description given to babies of illegal immigrants who are delivered in the United States. These babies, under current interpretation of U.S. law, automatically become U.S. citizens and most qualify immediately for a variety of benefits, including Medicaid. Over time, they can open the door to citizenship to other family members.

Last week, there was a flurry of national news stories announcing the current estimate that 300,000 such babies are born each year in this country.

There are, of course, pro-immigration groups whose members wouldn't blink, let alone protest, if the number was 10 times that high. Most people, however, would find the number somewhat shocking. Indeed, the news stories set off a new flurry of debate over whether the existing provisions relating to what is called birthright citizenship can or should be changed.

There is a special intensity in this discussion in some states - including California, Texas and Florida - with high anchor baby populations. But the issue is also being noticed in places like Georgia, where the number of anchor babies doubled from 5,133 in 2000 to 11,180 in 2002. Several years ago in Colorado, the number of such births was estimated at more than 6,000.

A measure pending in Congress would change the Constitution to deny citizenship rights to babies born to illegal immigrants. The proposed amendment is currently given little or no chance of passage but it certainly helps to focus attention on the nature of the problem.

More than a dozen years ago, Peter Schuck and Rogers Smith put it this way in their article "Consensual Citizenship," in the magazine Chronicles: "The present guarantee under American law of automatic birthright citizenship to the children of illegal aliens can operate ... as one more incentive to illegal migration and violation by nonimmigrant aliens already here. When this attraction is combined with the powerful lure of expanded entitlements conferred upon citizen children and their families by the modern welfare state, the total incentive effect of birthright citizenship may well become significant."

That passage was written


in 1992 when the number of such births was estimated at less than 150,000 per year. Since then, the number has more than doubled.

The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."

At the time the amendment was approved, the author of the clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard, said the phrase relating to jurisdiction meant, "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners ... ."

In subsequent years, the courts invalidated the assurances of Howard; at this stage, an amendment to the Constitution seems the only means available to change the law.

In some places in California, births to illegal immigrants make up 70 percent of the total deliveries. Overall statewide, they constitute 25 percent to 33 percent.

Not so long ago in Ireland, there was a policy of granting residency and possible citizenship to anyone who had a baby there. In Dublin hospitals, births to foreigners made up 25 percent of the total. That fact forced a change in Ireland's constitution in 2004. It now reads:

"Notwithstanding any other provision, a person born on the island of Ireland who does not have at the time of birth of that person at least one parent who is an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen is not entitled to Irish citizenship or nationality unless provided by law."

Change a couple of words, and it is a safe bet that that amendment would receive a high level of popular support in the United States.

A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country. But then, a few years ago, no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either.

Al Knight of Fairplay is a former member of The Post's editorial-page staff. His columns appear on Wednesday.

Let me re quote


Last week, there was a flurry of national news stories announcing the current estimate that 300,000 such babies are born each year in this country


But the issue is also being noticed in places like Georgia, where the number of anchor babies doubled from 5,133 in 2000 to 11,180 in 2002.


In some places in California, births to illegal immigrants make up 70 percent of the total deliveries. Overall statewide, they constitute 25 percent to 33 percent.

Theres a move in congress to change this law. Why should we give further incentive for people to disobey the law?

[Papewaio]

Bruce Lee

[Lemur]

Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Bruce Lee


Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?

Who cares their both dead. Neither did anytrhing great for america. Even if some become the best citizens we ever had it doesnt make whats going on now right. How many other nations have this type of law?

[el_slapper]

France. Whoever born in France and raised up in France may be granted citizenship as long as they demand it between the ages of 18 and 20(or 16 and 20, I don't remember the details). Though it does not help their family getting legal.

In fact, here in France, illegal immigrants have one single lone right : their children are allowed in schools. It is even mandatory for them, in fact, be they legals or illegals - they shall go to republica's school. And their children are allowed to stay, & may ask for citizenship.


Now tell me : why a country fully built on immigration (don't tell me amerindians really mattered in USA's history) would suddenly be so harsh? I mean, the guy born in a location, he's from here! You want to send him back home? He IS at home!!!

We have strictly the same debate over here. My position is : the trespasser, well, if he's caught, bad luck for him. The child born here, OTOH, is from here. As much as I am. Whatever its parents. He now is part of this soil. Like me. Its town is Montreuil or Sarcelles, not Ouagadougou or Bamako.

Now I will tell the tale of Rio Antonio Mavuba. 20 years ago, as Angola was torn in a violent civil war, refugees did flee through a ship. The little Rio was born in this ship. Its parents, as all people aboard, were looking for a better life, in a peaceful and welcoming country. They did navigate through the oceans until they did find a safe haven. Today, Rio Antonio Mavuba is a sucessful professional sports player, recently naturalized and proudly carrying the flag of its new country. This DOES sound as an american dream, no? But Rio is now french, soccer/football player in Bordeaux & member of the national team.

Is that really what you want? erasing the american dream? USA are a dream for many people in this planet - it is a huge strength for your country. Stories of successful immigrants have made the american dream true for countless people. This is USA's first strength. And you want to sit up upon it????? Me fails to understand.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Is that really what you want? erasing the american dream?

The American dream isnt running accross the border to plop your kid on US soil so as to be an American. If I rob a bank should my kid be able to enjoy the spoils? Rewarding people for breaking the law by making their children US citizens is ludicrous.

[Goofball]

I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.

~:smoking:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.

Why did your parents visit the US before you were born? ~D

[Goofball]

Why did your parents visit the US before you were born? ~D

Wow, you're giving me a lot of credit there G, by assuming I even know who my parents are...

~:cheers:

[Ironside]

I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.

~:smoking:

Nice way to get dubble citizenship or else this could happen:

Goverment person: Were did you fornicate, when you got pregnant?
Mother wondering about the wierd question: Well uhhmm, it was on that wonderful vacation in the US. Right honey?
Father: Right.
GP: I'm sorry to inform you that you're under arrest for getting illegal immigrants into the country. Your child will be deported to the US with the next airplane. ~D

[Don Corleone]

There's a LOT of things that need to get fixed on our immigration policy. As it stands right now, it's a small miracle Al Queda hasn't set up a training base someplace in Nevada (assuming they haven't). I'll have to think about this one particular nuance before I say anything on it though G.

[King of Atlantis]

I think it is time to change the "law of soil". It probably made more since in the 1700's, but now it is a very stupid law.

[Papewaio]

Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?

No Bruce Lee was born in the US while his father was doing an Opera tour.


Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco, California to a Chinese father, Lee Hoi-Chuen (李海泉), and Chinese-German mother Grace Lee(何金棠). Because of his father's fame as a Chinese opera actor Lee had the opportunity to appear in several Chinese movies as a child. He also studied the Wing Chun style of Kung Fu. And at a young age he quickly picked up the dialects/ languages of English, Cantonese, Mandarin and Japanese.

In 1959, Lee went to Seattle to complete his high school education. He received his diploma from Edison Technical School and went on to enroll in the University of Washington as a philosophy major. It was at the UW that he would meet his wife Linda Emery.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No Bruce Lee was born in the US while his father was doing an Opera tour.

If your here legaly then your child should recieve citizenship if wanted. Nut illegals are another matter. If I break into your home while your gone and my wife or GF gives birth to our baby there can we stay and are your rersponsible to support our child?

[Papewaio]

That opens a whole can of worms by making a child responsible for the crimes of their parents.

Verse 1
Hi my name is Snoopy Puffy Puppy and I am a six year old child.
I didn't stop my father from holding up the local liquor store,
or stop my mum being a crack *insert rhyming word here*.
So now I am going to do ten to twenty because I am responsible for my parents crimes.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That opens a whole can of worms by making a child responsible for the crimes of their parents.

How we are not punishing the child. If thats so then we are punishing every child born in the world that we dont make a US citizen. Again how many other countries have this law. I doubt you wil find many. Again you dont seem to grasp these people are not here legaly. Its a loophole that should be closed. If your here legaly for any reason and have a child here it should be up to you if you wish to claim US citizenship for the child. If your here illegaly neither you nor the child should be granted citizenship but deported back to the country where you came from. Why even have immigration laws at this point.

[bmolsson]

If your here legaly then your child should recieve citizenship if wanted. Nut illegals are another matter. If I break into your home while your gone and my wife or GF gives birth to our baby there can we stay and are your rersponsible to support our child?

Why blame the child for something the parents have done ??

For being against abortions, I must say you are not very sensitive against protecting innocent childrens from ignorant parents..... :book:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Why blame the child for something the parents have done ??

This is absurd. What am I blaming them for? Again is any child thats not granted US citizenship being blamed for the parents not moving here? Why should we reward the child for the parents being criminals?


I must say you are not very sensitive against protecting innocent childrens from ignorant parents.

Ignorant? Id say their pretty smart.

[bmolsson]

This is absurd. What am I blaming them for? Again is any child thats not granted US citizenship being blamed for the parents not moving here? Why should we reward the child for the parents being criminals?


You want to rob the innocent child on it's right to become an Amercian citizen. What have the unborn children on illegal immigrants ever done to you?...... :charge:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You want to rob the innocent child on it's right to become an Amercian citizen.

How does it have the RIGHT to be an American citizen? Im not robbing it of anything. Its parents are trying to abuse the law. You want to reward them for it. Again name another country where this is possible. Is it in yours?

[bmolsson]

How does it have the RIGHT to be an American citizen? Im not robbing it of anything. Its parents are trying to abuse the law. You want to reward them for it. Again name another country where this is possible. Is it in yours?

Even if the parents are abusing laws, you want to punish a innocent child for it. The law says that a child born on US soil is an Amercian citizen and you want to rob this right from the innocent child. :duel:

I can't name any other country that have this, since there are only one great, free, democratic and superior nation. And you now want to reduce it to another piece of dirt filled of mediocracy........... :help:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Even if the parents are abusing laws, you want to punish a innocent child for it

:wall:

How am I punishing it by making it return with its parents to the country to which they are citizens. This is crazy.


The law says that a child born on US soil is an Amercian citizen and you want to rob this right from the innocent child.

No I want to change the law. Thats what we do in democracies when we dont like them. Now your trying to make me out to be the criminal here. Amazing logic. :dizzy2:

[Papewaio]

For Australia:


Citizenship by birth
Most people born in Australia before 26 January 1949 became Australian citizens on that day. Between that date and 19 August 1986, people born in Australia automatically became Australian citizens unless one of their parents was a foreign diplomatic or consular official.

Since 20 August 1986, citizenship is acquired if, at the time of the person's birth in Australia, at least one parent is either an Australian citizen or a permanent resident of Australia.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So the children that are citizens here would not be granted it there. Like I thought. Im still willing to let those here on visa or vacation get citizenship. Its only criminals I dont want rewarded.

[Kanamori]

...Bmolsson, be kind man :no: ...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

...Bmolsson, be kind man .

Id settle for rational ~;)

[doc_bean]

You could just drop the limitations on Latin immigrants, they never worked anyway :bow:

[BDC]

Having seen the mess of Switzerland, I'd suggest you let people born in American become citizens. Last thing you want is a new underclass of citizenless people who have always lived in America etc.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Having seen the mess of Switzerland, I'd suggest you let people born in American become citizens. Last thing you want is a new underclass of citizenless people who have always lived in America etc.

Once more I hae no problem with letting people who are here legally and have a child claim citizenship here. But if they snuck in they and their brood should be deported. I dont know of any other country that allows this.

[BDC]

Once more I hae no problem with letting people who are here legally and have a child claim citizenship here. But if they snuck in they and their brood should be deported. I dont know of any other country that allows this.
Well I think the issue in Switzerland is that the immigrants (predominately Albanian I think) were invited in, not given citizenship, then had kids, who weren't citizens either, and are now completely stuck because all they speak is Swiss German and all they have is an Albanian passport (which is pretty worthless anyway).

I don't see the problem with kids of illegal immigrants getting citizenship. What connection do they have to their parents' country? If they were born in America, they should be American. Born in Britain, British. It's not going to help integration if you develop an underclass of people who have lived in America their whole lives, speak English only, and then can't go back to their parents' country anyway. What do you do with them? Dump them in no-mans land between borders?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What connection do they have to their parents' country?

Their parents of course who should still be living in that country.


If they were born in America, they should be American. Born in Britain, British

Then why dont the British or anyone but us have such a law?


It's not going to help integration if you develop an underclass of people who have lived in America their whole lives, speak English only, and then can't go back to their parents' country anyway. What do you do with them? Dump them in no-mans land between borders?

No I want them and their parents back in the country they came from and belong to before the kids grow up here. Someone asked why should the children be punished for the sins of their parents. When I ask why should they be rewarded for the sins of their parents theres no answer from you. This is a no brainer.

[Divinus Arma]

Anchor babies? I prefer the term "dirt birth babies". The illegals run across the desert and spit their babies out onto the dirt in the wilderness of american soil. As soon as they cross, they just spit that trash out in the sand. Then life becomes good for them. I think some actually get pregnant just to spew their dirt birth babies in america and get the benefits.

[Ser Clegane]

they just spit that trash out in the sand.

Slightly offensive - don't you think?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Slightly offensive - don't you think?

Yes very. Remember its only trash until the unbelical cord is cut. ~;)

[Ser Clegane]

Remember its only trash until the unbelical cord is cut. ~;)

Only in the US ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So if the baby comes out but the unbelical cord isnt cut and the mother goes back accross the border is the kid a citizen or not? ~;)


Only in the US

Yup most of the free world is more civilized and only considers it trash for the first 13 weeks, ~:)

In all seriousness you people have a much better grip on this problem than we do.

[Ser Clegane]

So if the baby comes out but the unbelical cord isnt cut and the mother goes back accross the border is the kid a citizen or not? ~;)

I leave that to your beloved SCOTUS to decide. ~D

Personally, I think the idea that every child that is born on US soil can claim US citizenship has a certain romantic charme, but somewhat lacks the link to real life. But then - that's your problem to handle ~:cool:

I only took an issue at the remark I quoted above, which I consider to be quite inappropriate.

[PanzerJaeger]

As someone who had to obtain citizenship to the US the hard, legal, way; I would definitely support ending this stupid interpretation of the law.

[bmolsson]

Then why dont the British or anyone but us have such a law?


Irrelevant. We are talking about US now.



No I want them and their parents back in the country they came from and belong to before the kids grow up here. Someone asked why should the children be punished for the sins of their parents. When I ask why should they be rewarded for the sins of their parents theres no answer from you. This is a no brainer.


According to the law a child can not be punished for anything the parents have done. This is not an exception. The child is innocent to any immigration violation committed by the parents. You want to revoke the right from an unborn child, which you also claim is a human with rights.

And yes, it's a no brainer. The child has not violated ANY laws and have the RIGHT to become an American citizen when born on American soil.

I for one think that this is a law that US should be proud over. Shame on you picking on innocent unborn children like this........ :duel:


~:grouphug:

[el_slapper]

I tend to second bmolsson. The kid is born in a country, was raised in a country - and suddenly has to emigrate 'cause its parents have done something wrong? My country is where I did grow up. Not where my parents did.

And, Gawain : I just told you France had such a soil law - just that the kid has to be raised up in France too, not only be born here. If effectively they cross the border, give birth, & come back, the kid is not from here - just accidentally born over there. If they cross the border, give birth, & the child does grow up here, hell, the child's country is here!!!

[Del Arroyo]

It's my personal feeling that the Mexico battle is lost already. We should just integrate and draw a new border in Guatemala.

The Mexicans by and large aren't such bad people. What would be good is if instead of only THEM coming HERE, we should send some people down there to teach them how to run their local governments. Maybe once our economy tanks due to lack of manufacturing, the wage disadvantage will be small enough for some working class Americans to move down there and start cleaning things up.

DA

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Irrelevant. We are talking about US now.

In other words do as I say not as I do. Only the US should be held to this standard.


According to the law a child can not be punished for anything the parents have done. This is not an exception.

No its not as the child isnt being punished. Again I merely want to change the law.


You want to revoke the right from an unborn child,

What right? The only thing that allows them to be a US citizen is a silly law. Again I merly want to change it.


which you also claim is a human with rights.

Sure it has rights but one of them isnt that its a US citizen.


The child has not violated ANY laws and have the RIGHT to become an American citizen when born on American soil.


If effectively they cross the border, give birth, & come back, the kid is not from here - just accidentally born over there.

Well thats not the law here. Born here and no matter what your a citizen. I dont want the kid born or raised here in the first place. Again if I rob a bank and give all the money to my kid will the governent let him keep it if they know how he got it or will they punish him by taking it away. Hey you cant punish the child for the sins of the father can you? If we change te law no one is being punished. Were not sending the children to jail.

It has no more RIGHT to be a US citizen than I have the RIGHT to drive. Our law currently bestows that PRVILIGE upon them. Again I want that law changed.

[Don Corleone]

It's my personal feeling that the Mexico battle is lost already. We should just integrate and draw a new border in Guatemala.

The Mexicans by and large aren't such bad people. What would be good is if instead of only THEM coming HERE, we should send some people down there to teach them how to run their local governments. Maybe once our economy tanks due to lack of manufacturing, the wage disadvantage will be small enough for some working class Americans to move down there and start cleaning things up.

DA

What do you think NAFTA is all about? Of cours Mexicans aren't bad people. But they are draining our system dry under the current rules. We either need to be separate (and each pays for and receives their own public benefits) or we need to be united (and everyone pays for and receives common public benefits). As it stands now, illegal immigrants are driving hospitals and schools in the Southwest bankrupt. It's not that they're bad people, but they're taking value out of a system without putting anything back in. This needs to be changed.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Mexicans aren't bad people

Don your pidgeon holing people ~:) There are no Mexicans were all people. ~D Thats just a man made way of seperating us like you say in the other thread. Hell why have borders or different governments as were all the same right ?

[Productivity]

Two things

First I think the rule should be, if born in a country you are a citizen. The parents then are allowed to legally stay, until the child is 18, at which point they are deported. The child is entitled to everything a citizen is, however the illegal parents have a significantly reduced set of services available to them. If any further children are born, they do not extend the time the parents may stay, custody upon deportation of the parents is given to the 18 year old child. It's about the fairest thing I can think up of, the child gets given a country and the parents don't get to stay forever (albeit they do stay for longer than I would prefer).

The second thing is, if you deport the newborn, what happens to them. Let us assume hypothetically we are talking about Mexicans trying to move illegally to the US. What happens if the child is born in the US, the US doesn't accept them, and trys to deport them, and Mexico rejects them on the grounds that they are not Mexicans (because they were not born there, and refuses to accept the child as an immigrant)? If I recall correctly, Australia has a number of such stateless people in our detention centres, and nobody really knows what to do with them.

[Ser Clegane]

and Mexico rejects them on the grounds that they are not Mexicans (because they were not born there, and refuses to accept the child as an immigrant)?

Are there any countries that deny a child citizenship, even if both parents are citizens of that country - just based on the fact that the child is not born on the soil of that country?

I think I have to agree with Gawain here - I don't quite see why a child that my wife and I might have should have the automatic right to become citizen of e.g., Japan just because we happened to be in Japan for a couple of days when the child was born. (e.g., while traveling and my wife went into early labor).

[scooter_the_shooter]

ok It seems mostly non americans want us to keep it so the illegal children can stay... how about we give them to your countrys if it is so great.


If some one wants to live here try and get a green card dont use loop wholes to become citizens.

[Don Corleone]

Don your pidgeon holing people ~:) There are no Mexicans were all people. ~D Thats just a man made way of seperating us like you say in the other thread. Hell why have borders or different governments as were all the same right ?

I never said we couldn't separate people into groups. I said race was a poor metric, as it's too vague and not very well defined. Nationality is VERY clear. You're either a legal citizen or a legal visitor to a country or you're not.

So :stop: trying to ruin my Friday, or I'll send the Arabic Assassin :whip: after you. I understand he's looking relocate. ~D

[Divinus Arma]

Slightly offensive - don't you think?

I know. Isn't it wonderful?

In all seriousness, "trash" in militaryspeak is just personally owned property. As in "pick up all your trash and gear" (pick up all of your personal property and military property).

It gets used for many different things in my beloved Corps. It can also mean language, as in: "secure that trash" (stop cursing) or it could be an event of some kind: "that trash was great!" (that movie, book, play, concert, opera, fireworks display, auto accident, music, storm, etc. was awesome!) It is an interchangeable word used in the place of the word sh*t. That way, Marines can cuss without actually cussing. Thus is only slightly offensive, unlike "ka-ka". So you were acurately descriptive in your moderating.

Have a great day!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Cool another Jarhead. Semper-Fi m8



I think I have to agree with Gawain here - I don't quite see why a child that my wife and I might have should have the automatic right to become citizen of e.g., Japan just because we happened to be in Japan for a couple of days when the child was born. (e.g., while traveling and my wife went into early labor).

Im not even against that. I only oppose making children of people who are illegally in the country and born here not granted automatic citizenship.

[Productivity]

ok It seems mostly non americans want us to keep it so the illegal children can stay... how about we give them to your countrys if it is so great.


If some one wants to live here try and get a green card dont use loop wholes to become citizens.

Bah I have the same view in regards to Australia. We just protect our borders (quite shamefully in some cases). The initial post was about the US. It was posted on an international forum. Of course you are going to get others discussing it.

[bmolsson]

I only oppose making children of people who are illegally in the country and born here not granted automatic citizenship.


And if they don't have any other citizenship you will just have them aborted ??? :help:

It's their fricking right. It's the law, the very foundation of the great American nation !!!!! ~:cheers:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Thats why we want the law changed the vast majority of americans don't want the illegal's children here.


you are not even from america but you want to tell us who we should and should not let in our country ~:confused:

Thats like me telling your country "you have to let these illegal children in it makes you great" While they don't pay hospital bills.... take jobs ....health care..... and social security from real americans. And welfare. And after all THAT a bunch of em join latino gangs

[bmolsson]

you are not even from america but you want to tell us who we should and should not let in our country ~:confused:


I only tell you this since I yet have to gather an army large enough to invade and protect the innocent childrens right you are trying to revoke. I am the great protecter of the innocent........ :charge:

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I dont know of any other country that allows this.

Twice already, El Slapper pointed at France as another country with the same law.

The main difference is the kid can ask for citizenship after 18. It's not compulsory, he got to ask for it.

Otherwise, anyone born in France can be French.

Louis,

PS: I find the use of the word "trash" offensive. This is an international board, not a Marine camp, so please your kind of specific linguo there...

[scooter_the_shooter]

bmolsson Did you even read the bottom part of my last post

[Kaiser of Arabia]

This issue has pissed me off for...ever.

I say we make illegal immigration a capital offense and any children to illegal immigrants illegal immigrants themselves, and that we refuse to deliver their kids in American hospitals. And refuse them education, jobs, welfare, government protection, and protection from lynch mobs.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Twice already, El Slapper pointed at France as another country with the same law.

No he didnt.

[scooter_the_shooter]

We need the mintute man project on the whole southern boarder ~:cheers:

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

No he didnt.

Hu?


And, Gawain : I just told you France had such a soil law


France. Whoever born in France and raised up in France may be granted citizenship as long as they demand it between the ages of 18 and 20(or 16 and 20, I don't remember the details).

Now if you go nitpicking, sure the wording of the law is not the same: I doubt you can find any law being the same in any other country to the semicolon.

The requirement are to become French if born in France are:
- born in France ~D
- need to 18, or 13 if parents ask for you earlier. It's either automatic at 18 or upon request at 13 if asked by parents.
- live in France at 18 (or later), when getting the citizenship.
- has lived in France for 5 years

El Slapper is wrong in the sense you don't have to ask for it. It's automatic; you have to ask not to have it. (1993 law El Slapper was refering to was suppressed in 1998)


I got no doubt the wording of the law is different. However, it's a soil law, and it is relevant to the topic. In effect, if you're born in France, you'll be French at 18.
The "live 5 years" requirement apply even if your parents are in France illegally. Not punishing the children for the sin of the parents.

Louis

[scooter_the_shooter]

how is it punishing it would be no diffrent if they were born in their own country because we would send them BACK.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Now if you go nitpicking, sure the wording of the law is not the same: I doubt you can find any law being the same in any other country to the semicolon.

Its not even close.


The requirement are to become French if born in France are:
- born in France

OK ours is just replace French With American

But thats it for us . None of this.


- need to 18, or 13 if parents ask for you earlier. It's either automatic at 18 or upon request at 13 if asked by parents.
- live in France at 18 (or later), when getting the citizenship.
- has lived in France for 5 years

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Not even close... ?

You mean being 18 is really a tough requirement to meet? How is that a problem, if at all?

Between 0 and 18, even if you're not a citizen (yet) you have some kind of specific Id card allowing you to be in the country. So it's not even illegal to stay in France... Although it might be for your parents. Which, I believe, is also the situation in the US.
That also means that "staying 5 years in the country" is, overall, a rather easy requirement to meet.


~:handball:

Louis,

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You just dont get it. Born in the US your entitled to US citizenship live there or not. If the mother of my child snuck into France gave birth and them snuck back out would our child be entitled to French citizenship? Would you give this child all the rights of a citizen from birth?

[bmolsson]

bmolsson Did you even read the bottom part of my last post

Yes, and you clearly don't like latinos..... Don't see any reason to comment on that though...

[bmolsson]

If the mother of my child snuck into France gave birth and them snuck back out would our child be entitled to French citizenship?


Let's hope so, since, if you got your will, soon she would have to do so to get a western citizenship....... ~D

~:grouphug:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Let's hope so, since, if you got your will, soon she would have to do so to get a western citizenship..


~:confused:

Everythings a joke to you and usually not funny. This time I cant even make any sense of it.

[bmolsson]

~:confused:

Everythings a joke to you and usually not funny. This time I cant even make any sense of it.

I agree. It's not funny to revoke innocent childrens citizenships. :bow:

[el_slapper]

I agree. It's not funny to revoke innocent childrens citizenships. :bow:

Well, if the child was Born in Las Vegas, then went back to Mexico, I can understand the wrath of anti-immigrationist if once adult, the guy/gal says "Hey, I'm American".

If he was born in Las Vegas, grew up here, was taught American lessons, learned the local language, local customs, worked here, why would he NOT be American?????

Me thinks the french law should come back to the request part(the one that does not want to be french shall not be), but I'm otherwise very pleased with it. The child does not pay for its parents errors. And France does fulfill its role of cultural leadership in the world by providing education for any children on its soil - be it legal or illegal. Is USA's ambition to be a cultural leader & a lighthouse in the world?

[scooter_the_shooter]

Yes, and you clearly don't like latinos..... Don't see any reason to comment on that though...


I don't care if you are white, black, oriental, latino, what ever. If you are going to move here do it the right way get green card.


And we aren't punishing the children because it would be just like they were born in their own country.

[bmolsson]

I don't care if you are white, black, oriental, latino, what ever. If you are going to move here do it the right way get green card.


The children we are talking about are not moving over there. They are BORN there. Big difference.



And we aren't punishing the children because it would be just like they were born in their own country.


But they are NOT born in any other country than US and you ARE revoking their right to get their US citizenship, hence they are punished for something that can't help or change.

[scooter_the_shooter]

The parents sneak here illegally to make their kids americans. And many times are allowed to stay because their kid is here. Many times they do this just to live here and don't care about the kid.

[bmolsson]

The parents sneak here illegally to make their kids americans. And many times are allowed to stay because their kid is here. Many times they do this just to live here and don't care about the kid.


And how can that be the kids fault ???

[bmolsson]

Who cares? Deport them anyway.


So this is how the world most powerful nation on earth should treat new born innocent children ?? :dizzy2:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So this is how the world most powerful nation on earth should treat new born innocent children ??

Without a doubt if their parents are breaking the law by being here. How come your not crusading for your country to adopt this law. Hell why do we want to punish any children for the mistakes of their parents. Let them make the kids citizens of any country they like. If I were in England when my son was born I wouldnt expect him to be a British citizen. Its your parents and where their from or should be that determines your nationality.

[bmolsson]

How come your not crusading for your country to adopt this law.


I am, but they don't want to listen. They are insensitive and imperialistic with no regards to innocent lives. :furious3:



Its your parents and where their from or should be that determines your nationality.


No it's not. It's the duty of you as a citizen to protect innocent children from prosecution, abortion and deportation. Their rights should be protected at any cost....... :charge:

[Papewaio]

I was born in Fiji,
Have New Zealand and Australian citizenship.
And have the right to apply for abode in Britain.
My wife has Taiwan and Australian citizenship.

So which country should my child have citzenship of?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No it's not. It's the duty of you as a citizen to protect innocent children from prosecution, abortion and deportation. Their rights should be protected at any cost...

Thats what Im doing for US children. Look if your mother is a Mexican with no other citizenship and your father is a Mexican with no other citizenship and you have a child that child should be Mexican not what ever country the mother could make it to before it was born. As for deportation tell that to Elio Gonzales.I still have no idea what rights your speaking of. The right to illegaly sneak into the US. Sounds like a fly planting its parasitic egg inside a host.

[bmolsson]

I was born in Fiji,
Have New Zealand and Australian citizenship.
And have the right to apply for abode in Britain.
My wife has Taiwan and Australian citizenship.

So which country should my child have citzenship of?



Neverland ? ~:grouphug:

[bmolsson]

Sounds like a fly planting its parasitic egg inside a host.


Is this how you see a child ? :dizzy2:

[bmolsson]

Here in America, you're not really a "Person" until your 18. Well, you are, but bear with me. Here in America, the parent is responsible for you. So, if a Parent uses you to break the law, in this particular case, I think you should be considered as nothing more than a tool used by the parent. A tool that gets to go right back to Mexico with it's owner.

So why can't the parent abort it's tool when it feels for it then ?? ~;)