View Full Version : What's the Best cavalry?
PittBull260
07-29-2005, 21:24
I love cavalry armies, and I usually use the ligh cavalry for defence, and heavy cav. for attack :)
I think that the Lancers are the best cavalry unit, wat about u? :)
VikingHorde
07-29-2005, 21:36
I would say the Kataphraktoi is best. I still remember my first battle vs. the byz in early era (My catholic army got crushed!). I love being the byz because of them, so they get my vote.
Marcellus
07-29-2005, 21:47
I would say say Kataphraktoi. Very powerful. ~:)
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-29-2005, 21:52
Teutonic Sergeants or Knights. Fast and powerful.
Boyars! If playing as the Russians or Novgorods (I think) you get them as Royal units. So they come with all those nice virtues such as Pride or Killer Instinct or Famously Brave etc. etc. Plus they are like heavy Cavalry, with bows, plus they have swords and not lances/spears, meaning they are better in a prolonged combat. And also situationally they are great too, cos you always have some great bridge battles against the Mongols with them. ~;)
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
07-29-2005, 22:17
Lancers, then Boyars.
Mujalumbo
07-29-2005, 22:48
Armenian Heavy Cavalry.
Fort + Master Horse Breeder = damned fine cavalry.
Saracen Infantry, Armenian Heavy Cavalry and Turcomen Foot Soldiers makes a damned "hammer 'n' anvil" army.
Lancers beat all other cav, straight up, except Gothics. Gothics are slow. Kats are good but at V0 have poor morale, and are slow.
Two of my favs are on the list, Szekely are great cav archers, fast and can fight. Pronoai Allagion are very similar to Feudals and are a great addition to the Byz arsenal.
Alans are another great cav, very useful under a lot of conditions.
and Camels, which are oft maligned, can really hurt any cav if used properly.
That said, there is no 'best' cav, each has advatages (some more than others) but also disadvantages. Gothics in the desert, for example. It's all about using the cav you have correctly.
ichi :bow:
Uesugi Kenshin
07-30-2005, 03:08
Armenian Heavy Cavalry. For one they are Turkish so I use them a lot. Second they are available relatively early in the game when compared to Chivalric Knights, Lancers and Gothic Knights. They are also a reliable heavy cavalry unit and once the Christians get their best Heavy Cavalry I can always rely on my Janissary Heavies to break them up if my Armenian Cav can't take them.
I agree with Ichi's comment that their is no "best" cavalry per se. They really all do have their strengths and weaknesses, and all (or at least most) are fun to play around with.
That said, my *favorite* heavy cav would have to be the Katanks and Khwarazmians--if only because the Egyptians and Byzantines are two of my favorite factions. That, and they roll over just about everything (although Kats usually need a couple upgrades to keep them relevant in the later game).
To BAD: You know, I just realized I don't think I've ever played as Novgorod/Russians before. You talking about the Boyars is making me think that perhaps I need to remedy that very soon..... ~:)
edyzmedieval
07-30-2005, 09:05
Kataphraktoi but actually, the Klibanophoroi.
They were waaaaaay more powerful than the Kataphraktoi. You can find them included in BKB's Super Mod.
I think this poll should be renamed "What is the best heavy cavalry?", since you have only listed those. Anyway, I agree with Ichi when he says that there is no such thing as a best cavalry: it all depends on the circumstances and how they are used. That's why I picked boyars: they can play more than one role. Other favourites of mine are steppe heavy cavalry (not as good as boyars, but available to all factions), Jinettes (readily available, good light cavalry with javelins) and Szekely (fast horse archers with quite good melee-stats), though I am not very good with the latter.
To BAD: You know, I just realized I don't think I've ever played as Novgorod/Russians before. You talking about the Boyars is making me think that perhaps I need to remedy that very soon..... ~:)
You won't be dissapointed. It's a great Campaign with them. Even after the Horde emerges and you've dealt with them. ~D
But yeah as edyz said, Klibanophoroi own. Basically Steppe Heavies with a bit better defence and armour, oh yeah and an Armour Piercing melee attack too. :charge: They are in the XL mod too.
PittBull260
07-30-2005, 16:39
You won't be dissapointed. It's a great Campaign with them. Even after the Horde emerges and you've dealt with them. ~D
But yeah as edyz said, Klibanophoroi own. Basically Steppe Heavies with a bit better defence and armour, oh yeah and an Armour Piercing melee attack too. :charge: They are in the XL mod too.
yea but u only get 20 Klibanaphoroi per unit
King Bob VI
07-30-2005, 17:07
Actually High/Late Royal Knights kick the most a** per capita, so to speak, but they aren't an option.
sunsmountain
07-30-2005, 18:07
At equal valor, lancers beat gothics. But goths can start with valour 2 on the campaign map, and lancers can start with a max of 1. Lancers are faster, a big advantage. They can even hunt down some of the archer cav, but have difficulty doing so. Never mind the mounted crossbows *ouch*.
edyzmedieval
07-30-2005, 18:10
yea but u only get 20 Klibanaphoroi per unit
I can make them a 200 men unit if I want ~D
I love MTW Modding.....
yea but u only get 20 Klibanaphoroi per unit
In XL mod they are 40 men units. Like the other vanilla cavalry archers. =P
antisocialmunky
07-30-2005, 19:30
I love Byzantine Cavalry, with one valour point, they can beat a unit of tired Feudal Knights.
My favorite cavalry of all time is the Jinette though. They're just so useful! Also on the list are Byz Cav, Kats, Boyars, Gothics, and Lancers.
PittBull260
07-30-2005, 19:38
In XL mod they are 40 men units. Like the other vanilla cavalry archers. =P
well that's not fair....i think they should be 20, making them 40 is unfair to other cavalry
PittBull260
07-30-2005, 19:39
At equal valor, lancers beat gothics. But goths can start with valour 2 on the campaign map, and lancers can start with a max of 1. Lancers are faster, a big advantage. They can even hunt down some of the archer cav, but have difficulty doing so. Never mind the mounted crossbows *ouch*.
not really, I actually experimented this, the Gothic Kninghts were the only cavalry unit that can beat Lancers one on one with same valour (and Beduin Camels in a desert)
I love Byzantine Cavalry, with one valour point, they can beat a unit of tired Feudal Knights.
My favorite cavalry of all time is the Jinette though. They're just so useful! Also on the list are Byz Cav, Kats, Boyars, Gothics, and Lancers.
Here here; Jinettes rule! ~:cheers: The Byz Cavalry are nice too, although I'm generally not fond of most horse archer units. Their good melee stats makes them a wonderfully versatile unit, however.
I also like Bedouin camel warriors; they're a cheap but effective light cav, and they're great at smacking down Christian knights in the desert.
[EDIT] As an aside, can anyone tell me the difference between Pronoiai Allagion and Byzantine Lancers, and what the advantages/disadvantages there are between them (aside from cost)? I've never really been sure as to which unit gives me the better "bang for my buck".
well that's not fair....i think they should be 20, making them 40 is unfair to other cavalry
Fair? In War? =/
@Martok
Byzantine Lancers
Cost 250 Support 14 Charge 6 Melee 3 Defence 2 Armour 3 Morale 4
Build Requirements - Lvl 2 Horse Breeder and Lvl 2 Spearmaker
Pronoiai Allagion
Cost 425 Support 25 Charge 6 Melee 4 Defence 3 Armour 5 Morale 8
Build Requirements - Lvl 3 Horse Breeder and Lvl 3 Spearmaker
But also you have to calculate in the fact that you can get the Pronoiai Allagion at Valour One from a province (can't remember which). I'm not sure whether you can for Byzantine Lancers.
Geezer57
07-31-2005, 02:27
Armenian Heavy Cavalry.
Fort + Master Horse Breeder = damned fine cavalry.
Saracen Infantry, Armenian Heavy Cavalry and Turcomen Foot Soldiers makes a damned "hammer 'n' anvil" army.
Agree with you regarding the AHC, especially when built in Armenia from a Master Horse Breeder, buy why would you specify Turcoman Foot when you can build Futuwwas as the Turks? Futuwwas have the same missle power, much better melee offense and morale - they're even pretty good as melee flankers. Turco's only benefits are defensive, and their morale sucks so bad (-1) that they never stay around to use it!
not really, I actually experimented this, the Gothic Kninghts were the only cavalry unit that can beat Lancers one on one with same valour (and Beduin Camels in a desert)
You're right, the difference between Lancers and Goths are the charge and the AP bonus. Lancers get a good charge, but the Goths win due to their AP bonus (they carry maces for head-bonking).
ichi :bow:
antisocialmunky
07-31-2005, 03:05
Gothics are very powerful.
If you dismount Gothic Knights, man per man, they are will beat JHI with heavy casualties.
Byzantine Lancers
Cost 250 Support 14 Charge 6 Melee 3 Defence 2 Armour 3 Morale 4
Build Requirements - Lvl 2 Horse Breeder and Lvl 2 Spearmaker
Pronoiai Allagion
Cost 425 Support 25 Charge 6 Melee 4 Defence 3 Armour 5 Morale 8
Build Requirements - Lvl 3 Horse Breeder and Lvl 3 Spearmaker
But also you have to calculate in the fact that you can get the Pronoiai Allagion at Valour One from a province (can't remember which). I'm not sure whether you can for Byzantine Lancers.
Thanks, BAD. Well it looks to me that PA, despite being more expensive, are probably a better investment than Byz Lancers (especially since you can train +1 PA in Nicea). The only real downside is that they have higher build requirements--which makes me think that perhaps Byz Lancers are there as sort of a temporary "stopgap" unit to fill in the void until PA become available. ~;)
You won't be dissapointed. It's a great Campaign with them. Even after the Horde emerges and you've dealt with them. ~D
But yeah as edyz said, Klibanophoroi own. Basically Steppe Heavies with a bit better defence and armour, oh yeah and an Armour Piercing melee attack too. :charge: They are in the XL mod too.
Eeesh, I think Klibanophoroi may actually be TOO good, I played them with XL and they basically made the rest of my army redundant. They own heavy cavalry and infantry because of the armour piercing, they can chase down archers, and as long as they mob spearmen properly they can take them out too!
PittBull260
07-31-2005, 17:59
Eeesh, I think Klibanophoroi may actually be TOO good, I played them with XL and they basically made the rest of my army redundant. They own heavy cavalry and infantry because of the armour piercing, they can chase down archers, and as long as they mob spearmen properly they can take them out too!
yea tahts why they should be 20 men per unit
Where are my beloved Sipahis of the Porte?
:charge:
PittBull260
08-01-2005, 03:45
Where are my beloved Sipahis of the Porte?
:charge:
damn, ur right, i forgot about them
Ah, don't worry about it dude. I'm probably the only guy here who digs 'em, haha...
People around here tend towards Full Metal Catholic more than the graceful and versatile Muslim units...
bretwalda
08-01-2005, 10:07
Where are my beloved Sipahis of the Porte?
:charge:
I second to that! Szekely-s, Turcoman Horse are also seriously missing...
Ah, don't worry about it dude. I'm probably the only guy here who digs 'em, haha...
People around here tend towards Full Metal Catholic more than the graceful and versatile Muslim units...
No way! I love the horse archer style of playing and ichi is also fond of them ;)
On the other hand there as I read there are quite some people fond of heavy infantry (mainly Danes oriented)...
sunsmountain
08-01-2005, 13:49
You're right, the difference between Lancers and Goths are the charge and the AP bonus. Lancers get a good charge, but the Goths win due to their AP bonus (they carry maces for head-bonking).
Ah i knew i was forgetting something! So Goths rule supreme in hand to hand after all. Too bad they're so slow on the field...
You're right, the difference between Lancers and Goths are the charge and the AP bonus. Lancers get a good charge, but the Goths win due to their AP bonus (they carry maces for head-bonking).
ichi :bow:
Got to love the mace! :smash: :stars: Gothic Knights. I also like the
Teutonic Knights ~:cool: .
Avar Nobles are the tops, its tough to beat a disciplined heavy cavalry. But for general combat after Early I will choose Boyars or Sipahi of the Port.
As I haven't played many games in Late I haven't used Lancers and Gothics except in custom or random battles.
mfberg
Procrustes
08-01-2005, 21:46
I love playing Nov/Rus with Boyars. By the time you are building your own (not just royal units) their stats are even better than listed, as you need a +3 armorer. Also, with just one more horse farmer build (8 years) you can bring them up to +1 valor.
And I second mfberg - it's well worth it to take Moravia (I think) to get the Avar Nobels - great heavy cav. They make an excellent complement to the Boyars if you play as Nov/Rus. But remember, you can only build them during early!
As far as the Catholics go, I like Chiv Knights - deadly mounted or not.
Don Corleone
08-02-2005, 00:59
Just out of curiosity, is there any difference between Teutonic Knights, Knights of Santiago and Knights Hospitalier?
Just out of curiosity, is there any difference between Teutonic Knights, Knights of Santiago and Knights Hospitalier?
KoS are not impetious, which means they are less likely to charge off without being told to do so. IIRC units get a little bonus for impetious charge, but KoS make great gen units as they are less likley to get themselves in trouble.
ichi :bow:
Bonus for going impetious is +4 morale IIRC. Dont know how long it lasts though. Other than they are the same as chiv knights in stats.
CBR
Just out of curiosity, is there any difference between Teutonic Knights, Knights of Santiago and Knights Hospitalier?
Knights Hospitaller also dismount into Hospitaller footknights, which are the best swordsmen after Gothic footknights. The other crusader knights dismount into chivalric footknights. Hospitaller footknights have a slightly better charge and attack than chivalric footknights, but no AP bonus.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.