Riots in France?

[yesdachi]

Clearly the 18 year old girls just need sex.~:joker:

I joke because I haven’t a clue how to help. Thanks Meneldil for sharing your experiences I feel I have a better understanding of the situation because you have taken the time to share. :bow: I wish I could offer some genuine advice.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It isn't murder. It is quelling a revolt.
Explain this bit then
put a round through his head and any others that don't seem to "get it."
Don't seem to get it ....get what , the fact that the police will kill you to teach people a lesson . Hey the French did that in the past , as did the British and countless other countries , it doesn't work .
In fact it turns out to be completely counterproductive .

Edit because some people just are not even worth a response

If you revolt against the existing authority, you should expect that the existing authority will seek to retain control and that they may use violent means to do so. Phrasing it as "a round in the head" may be a touch crass, but is graphically accurate. Heavens, the Chi-comms would even charge the deceases rioter's family for the bullet used. ~:eek:

Historically speaking, you are also incorrect. Most revolts have been quelled by violence and violence can often end practical opposition. Very few revolts have succeeded compared to the number attempted. Napoleon's "whiff of grape," A British Empire governor "reading the Riot Act," etc. all clearly underline the efficacy of the violent response. :knight:

Feel free to argue that such government crackdowns cannot address the antecedent causes of a riot/rebellion, or even that governmental violence against its own citizens is inherently immoral, but please try not to fly in the face of facts. :trytofly:

[Adrian II]

Why are the Cambodians good and respectful citizens (..)Because there are far fewer of them, the majority were originally Catholic anti-Communists who 'knew' their place in French society and they were met with far less hostility than immigrants from the Maghreb. Even so, although the 13e is still nice, the 11me seems to have its own problems since the advent of many Chinese...

Anyway, I understand that you are upset and I do not want to belittle that sentiment, but the spitting has been mutual for a long time. You may not have witnessed it in your neighbourhood, but I have seen too many instances of (both young and old) Arabs being abused by police, shop-owners, etcetera. I am not in the business of justifying riots or murder, but this is not exactly a surprise, is it. It has been predicted for all of twenty five years. If you lump so many social and economic problems together in drab housing estates with virtual fences around them and allow criminals to take over the street, you should not be surprised and cry: 'Oh look, criminals are taking over!"

[Adrian II]

Now, some “petite bourgeoises” want to be seen as revolutionaries… In 2 weeks, they will come back in a normal behaviour and will smoke, drink alcohol, were short skirts, kiss their boyfriends in the street and won’t wear the hidjab, protected from the so-called murder of honour or ritual mutilations by the police and the French laws they spat on yesterday…~:cheers:Oh yes! ~D
And the car’s insurance will rise… Again~:)Guess who else are making money again? ~;)

[Brenus]

They were met with far less hostility than immigrants from the Maghreb”: That is right, and also they come as victims of an invasion, not after having rage a war to become independent then, 5 years after, come to the Oppressor to find a job. So, the feeling toward both communities is rather different.~D
If you lump so many social and economic problems together in drab housing estates with virtual fences around them and allow criminals to take over the street, you should not be surprised and cry: 'Oh look, criminals are taking over!" Completely agree!!! But it isn’t specific to the immigration… The poor French are in these Ghettos and are denied of equal opportunities… A friend of mine, lawyer now, was the only workers’ family origin in his university who succeeded. They were 5 at the start (more than 500 candidates)…~:)
And yes, the laws of the Republic should apply to all, in protection as in repression. But Chirac is still not in jail…~D

[Tribesman]

A British Empire governor "reading the Riot Act," etc. all clearly underline the efficacy of the violent response.
Ever heard of Amritsar ? Did it produce the "necessary moral and widespread effect" (nice line that one isn't it) that was intended to stop the protests and riots or did it mark the beginning of the end of the established rule ?

Historically speaking, you are also incorrect.~D ~D ~D

but please try not to fly in the face of facts.
Yeah right, facts speak for themselves Seamus .
Would you like a pile of other examples ? There are plenty to choose from .

[Adrian II]

But Chirac is still not in jail…~DOh, écoutes.. ~D

But back to my question: who else is making money?

Mr Kärchner. Ouais!

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

And how many times has this sort of thing, at this intensity, has happened in the US recently?


How far would you go? 1992?

Define intensity? is that damage caused? people dead?

Because on many criteria, beside making good picture and being a good example of some real, actual problems we face (but that noone cares about here), it's rather low intensity.

When you count burnt cars for a "riot", it's actually a good news...

Louis,

[Louis VI the Fat]

Imagine being of Arab origin and being regularly subjected to such treatment by Frenchmen, with the acclaim and support of the authorities, politicians and the police. Maybe then you will understand some of the rage behind the riots; the real issue is that most of the sorry characters who have made it into the limelights actually want to belong in France.

And please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I speak your language and argot, I have been coming and going in France for the past thirty years. I have slept in the subway when that was still allowed and also in the rich lawyers homes in the Rue Caulaincourt (because I was 'doing' their wives and daughters, in case you wonder). I have seen Beaubourg being built and I have seen police shooting indiscriminately at black street sellers in the first year of Mitterrand, that sorry excuse for a socialist. I know all the ins and outs, man, of Paris and of the sleepy towns of la profonde. I know how pieds-noirs, resistance veterans and Vichy-veterans are treated before and after elections (when their votes are no longer needed). I know which political parties have been paid by which third world dictators. I know how les blacks are feted as cult heroes as long as the official lights are on and beaten up in alleys as soon as those lights go out.

And I know what happens when the stuff hits the fan and half of the French work themselves into a frenzy and become law and order obsessed little parachutistes. I thought you belonged to the other half, but I am not so sure anymore.

Frankly I feel much more disturbed by the law and order reflexes, the refusal to think and the incapacity to listen of the French political class and a part of the general public than I am by any sort of islamic take-over or such nonsense.

The barbarians are already within the European gates. They have been there all along and they are awaiting their next chance.You're living in the past, Adrian. Did you fail to notice the extreme reluctancy to use force against the rioters? Do you not see that it is that racaille shooting at the police, and not the other way round? That it took two weeks before a curfew was imposed?

All that to prevent further escalation. Rightly so, I guess. But you now what? By now my intrinsic French law and order obsessed fascist side is gaining the upper hand. The party is over.


The barbarians are already within the European gates. They have been there all along and they are awaiting their next chance.Like a general, you're fighting the previous war. The barbarians are within our gates indeed. But - for once - it's not the dormant French authoritarian undercurrent.


I know all the ins and outs, man, of Paris. Yes, well note my sig <-
You're no doubt aware then that Saint Denis harbours the largest Muslim community of France. Having shared a house with some Jews and even a gay, I know who the fascists will be next time. I respect Muslims, but I'm no fool. This time, it's their youth running around in brownshirts, with identical haircuts, frustrated and angry and looking for scapegoats to take the frustration over their miserable little lives out on.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I hear is so bad that Bush is going to send in the Marines. A fireteam leaves for France tommorow. That should put an end to it.~D

[Louis VI the Fat]

The US marines! At last! :jumping:

Why does it always take you guys so long to come bail us out?


*hurries to Normandy to see the show*

[Adrian II]

Did you fail to notice the extreme reluctance to use force against the rioters?No. But I did notice that Sarkozy had not enough police personnel to deal with the fall-out of further escalation. In that case he would have been forced to leave the initiative to De Villepin, backed by Chirac and the army, and this would have made him look like a failure. And there are, after all, presidential elections ahead... These guys were so busy politicking that they missed out on their own riots for seven days and only woke up when their own cars and homes inside the Peripheral Boulevard came under threat.
This time, it's their youth running around in brownshirts, with identical haircuts, frustrated and angry and looking for scapegoats to take the frustration over their miserable little lives out on.For a moment, I thought you were going to say 'take power'. Anyway, Le Pen has been awfully silent, hasn't he?

[Red Harvest]

How far would you go? 1992?

Define intensity? is that damage caused? people dead?

Because on many criteria, beside making good picture and being a good example of some real, actual problems we face (but that noone cares about here), it's rather low intensity.

When you count burnt cars for a "riot", it's actually a good news...

Louis,
I'm assuming you are referring to the Rodney King riot in LA. Provides a very marked contrast to France's pathetic response to this:
1. Guard was called up on Day 2, arrived Day 3.
2. The riot was quelled, essentially over by Day 5 which was quiet except for one shooting by Guardsmen.
3. Individuals prevented the spread of the rioting and protected their own property with personal firearms.
4. There was very little spread of the rioting to other cities.
5. We didn't agonize over the civil rights of rioters. We dealt with the riots, then we dealt with the issue that had prompted them.

The sad thing is that the King rioting was poorly directed because it merely destroyed the neighborhoods of those who had a valid beef. Had they marched on the police station and burned it down/etc. then it would have been an appropriate "tit for tat" response and going right to the heart of the problem. Instead it was general wanton destruction.

The riots also happened after justice had "run its course" and failed miserably. It wasn't a quick reaction to an incident, but a long building response to an incident.

[Soulforged]

I'm assuming you are referring to the Rodney King riot in LA. Provides a very marked contrast to France's pathetic response to this:

Stronger the central government, stronger the response, and stronger the repression.
Weaker the central government, later response, tough the response could be strong too.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Stronger the central government, stronger the response, and stronger the repression.
Weaker the central government, later response, tough the response could be strong too.Yes but America is a highly federalized state, France as centralist as they come. Let's swap 'stronger' for 'competent'.

[Adrian II]

I'm assuming you are referring to the Rodney King riot in LA. Provides a very marked contrast to France's pathetic response to this:
1. Guard was called up on Day 2, arrived Day 3.
2. The riot was quelled, essentially over by Day 5 which was quiet except for one shooting by Guardsmen.If only it were that simple. The police and firefighters were nowhere to be seen for two days. Two days of open gun battles left over 50 people dead and over a 1000 buildings burning. And this in only one part of only one town. The planned redevelopment of the area had to fold within five years due to lack of funds. And by the way, you forgot to mention the Harlins shooting which explains the black-Korean confrontation in the midst of the Rodney King riots.

[Quietus]

I hear is so bad that Bush is going to send in the Marines. A fireteam leaves for France tommorow. That should put an end to it.~D Wow, the few, the proud, the Marines! The best soldiers in the world! ~:thumb:

[Louis VI the Fat]

These guys were so busy politicking that they missed out on their own riots for seven days and only woke up when their own cars and homes inside the Peripheral Boulevard came under threat.Oh, they can all forget about the presidency. Bunch of incompetent fools.


For a moment, I thought you were going to say 'take power'.No, they're not going to take power. Not power as in taking over the government. But they do have the power to decide who goes where, where you can walk late at night, to make Jews, gays and women stay out of many public spaces, the power to make a bus full of passengers shut up.

Oh, and to decide who is allowed to make what kind of movie in the Netherlands as well...


Anyway, Le Pen has been awfully silent, hasn't he?The FN is having a ball. They're sitting back quietly, feet on the table, going like this:

~:rolleyes:

God forbid this racaille seizes power or it will be my turn to set a few cars ablaze.

[Red Harvest]

If only it were that simple. The police and firefighters were nowhere to be seen for two days. Two days of open gun battles left over 50 people dead and over a 1000 buildings burning. And this in only one part of only one town. The planned redevelopment of the area had to fold within five years due to lack of funds. And by the way, you forgot to mention the Harlins shooting which explains the black-Korean confrontation in the midst of the Rodney King riots.
And yet it was contained far quicker than in France. More severe form of rioting, and contained more quickly. Tells you something about the way Americans do things compared to the French in this case doesn't it?

The poor redevelopment actually sent the right message: Don't tear up your own neighborhood and expect someone else to fix it.

What message has France sent? "Please don't hurt us. We don't know what to do." ~:rolleyes: That invites more trouble and France can probably expect wider adoption of the same tactic in the future. We'll see how it works out for France long term. I could take a lot of gratuitous cheap shots at France here, but that is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because weakness in the face of aggression is foolhardy.

And so what about the Harlins shooting? Doesn't really matter much to the scheme of things other than increasing the intensity. I didn't forget it, it just doesn't add anything to the point.

[Adrian II]

And yet it was contained far quicker than in France.It had to be, because it grew far worse than in France due to LA police incompetence. The Chief of Police couldn't be bothered, he was too busy attending political fundraisers.
Reminds me of Sarkozy, sort of. ~;p

[Soulforged]

Yes but America is a highly federalized state, France as centralist as they come. Let's swap 'stronger' for 'competent'.
Agree. But I was using it in ample sense. For what I had read of France, it's the most liberal country in the world, so the state becomes less centralized and more disperse. Not a bad thing at all, but it's bad as long as it exists private property, the only thing that you do is provoque individual power alienated from society and unbearable imparciality.

[bmolsson]

I think there is some confusion here. A "lefty" regime are not interested in multi-culturalism. The very basics in a socialist meaning is to create equality among the citizens, this includes culture. Also to note that religion has a direct contradiction towards left politics.
The only lefty we have in these riots are the violence and attempt to revolution.......

[Soulforged]

I think there is some confusion here. A "lefty" regime are not interested in multi-culturalism. The very basics in a socialist meaning is to create equality among the citizens, this includes culture. Also to note that religion has a direct contradiction towards left politics.
The only lefty we have in these riots are the violence and attempt to revolution.......
The socialist are not against multi-culturalism, nor the communist, they're insterested in economy, the equality refers simply to the having the same resources to satisfy needs, now if you want to go beyond that is your problem, also this has been discussed, in this forums and in a lot of places, millions of times. Religion has a direct contradiction with Communism or anarchism, also with some forms of socialism, because they're materialist, idealism is, to put it simple, pure BS, worthless and dispicable like all forms of drugs. There's of course, a difference in the treatment that you'll receive from those three archetypes.
I agree in the last part, but not because this is not lefty, just because it can be from both sides, liberalism also looks for equality before the law, that's a fiction, but if you like it then go for it (btw that's idealism, just to example it).

[bmolsson]

The socialist are not against multi-culturalism, nor the communist, they're insterested in economy, the equality refers simply to the having the same resources to satisfy needs, now if you want to go beyond that is your problem, also this has been discussed, in this forums and in a lot of places, millions of times. Religion has a direct contradiction with Communism or anarchism, also with some forms of socialism, because they're materialist, idealism is, to put it simple, pure BS, worthless and dispicable like all forms of drugs. There's of course, a difference in the treatment that you'll receive from those three archetypes.
I agree in the last part, but not because this is not lefty, just because it can be from both sides, liberalism also looks for equality before the law, that's a fiction, but if you like it then go for it (btw that's idealism, just to example it).

As you know, I equal religion to politics, since it in fact is a system applied for a society. Never the less, I don't think that there are ANY modern ideologies these days that speaks for multi culturalism. The problem we have today is the increased protectionism and nationalism around the world. US closes it's borders, middle east states alienates themselves to the world and EU creating a bastion of borders around the member states.

Liberalismen is many times identified with France, but I think that the failed French colonial empire have created contradictions in the French society. People are classified depending on ethnic background, even if it is not the intention of the society.
Here you have the problem. Young people have a problem with their identity. They are taught that everyone are equal, have guaranteed rights etc, but in reality it's something totally different.
The immigrant have in reality nothing in common with other immigrants more than that he is classified by the society in to a group.
This leads to frustration and when it surface, we see the riots we have in France.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I'm assuming you are referring to the Rodney King riot in LA. Provides a very marked contrast to France's pathetic response to this:
1. Guard was called up on Day 2, arrived Day 3.
2. The riot was quelled, essentially over by Day 5 which was quiet except for one shooting by Guardsmen.
3. Individuals prevented the spread of the rioting and protected their own property with personal firearms.
4. There was very little spread of the rioting to other cities.
5. We didn't agonize over the civil rights of rioters. We dealt with the riots, then we dealt with the issue that had prompted them.

The sad thing is that the King rioting was poorly directed because it merely destroyed the neighborhoods of those who had a valid beef. Had they marched on the police station and burned it down/etc. then it would have been an appropriate "tit for tat" response and going right to the heart of the problem. Instead it was general wanton destruction.

The riots also happened after justice had "run its course" and failed miserably. It wasn't a quick reaction to an incident, but a long building response to an incident.

Guard went in as 50 people died and a billion dollar worth of goods went in smoke...

We are nowhere near that. I am pretty sure that if the situation is getting as bad as in LA 1992, then yes, you would see a lot more brutal and lethal action from the police forces.

Agonizing over the civil rights of rioters... is a forum thingy :)

Louis,

[Soulforged]

As you know, I equal religion to politics, since it in fact is a system applied for a society. Never the less, I don't think that there are ANY modern ideologies these days that speaks for multi culturalism. The problem we have today is the increased protectionism and nationalism around the world. US closes it's borders, middle east states alienates themselves to the world and EU creating a bastion of borders around the member states.I didn't know that ~:) . Anyway this problems that you talk about are all related to capitalism, it generates a good and efficient working economics mechanic, but if you introduce an strange subject on the equation, things like employament, offer, demand and also the very basis of private property, fall like domino. Holding this system non of this countries should at the same time open the borders, they should close them.

[bmolsson]

I didn't know that ~:) . Anyway this problems that you talk about are all related to capitalism, it generates a good and efficient working economics mechanic, but if you introduce an strange subject on the equation, things like employament, offer, demand and also the very basis of private property, fall like domino. Holding this system non of this countries should at the same time open the borders, they should close them.

In a western country everything, including the socialistic part, have a capitalistic flavor over it. The problem occur when you promise something with socialistic direction and you can't live up to the politicial promise. For example, creating jobs or provide health care.

[Brenus]

“Wow, the few, the proud, the Marines! The best soldiers in the world!” After the Legion, of course (I can’t resist, sorry)~D

[Ldvs]

“LOL, the French treat everyone like shit.”
That is probably because France is the most racist state in the world that the biggest Muslim population in Europe is in France, and the biggest Jewish community in Europe lives in France. They like to be excluded, marginalised and ostracised.~:)
Unfortunately, the answer is a little bit more complicated… The riot started because a social economical problems.
BUT, I don’t think these rioters know what real poverty is. They burn the schools they didn’t intend to go. They blame others for their own incapacity to be creative and to work hard to escape from where they belong. They do not respect their parents, their faith or others social barriers.
I come from a low level of the French society. My ancestors were soldiers (by the way, most of my comrades in arm and NCO were from immigration Portuguese, Algerians, Moroccans, Austrians etc), farmers or workers.
My Grand-father was a Unionist when the police shoot for real on the crowd in 1933-1936. And he was not black or Arabs (by the way, the Chinese and Vietnamese aren’t in the riots, and they are for the immigration too). The police always work for the power… In 1954, the strikes were resolved by machine guns shooting against Renault workers… so give a break with this… It is not in France that people disappeared and the political opponents finished and are tortured in jail but in Algeria, Tunisia, Congo, etc. It is not in France that you are jailed if you eat during the Ramadan but in Algeria.~D

I was aware when I was 16 of the social “determism” ~:confused: (not an English word, but I can’t find the good one) and I found my way. I finished my baccalaureate, joined the army (5 years) then went back to university for 8 years. I am the only one of the 6 children to do it, but I did it. Yes, I had to work in night shift and week-end and during holidays. Yes, it was hard, but you know what you have to do if you want to succeed to escape from factories and unemployment.
As said by Meneldil, most of the pseudo revolutionaries have nice clothes and probably have Ipod and others luxuries…~D
But, as I said, the French have enough of this government which give to the rich, which ignored the populace, which cut all social expenses and want the “petits gens” poorer.
And these people are French. Give them that. The ancestors fought for that, came in France to work and did it. Some gave their lives for France. So, immigration isn’t the problem. The problem is the alienation of the workers (and most of their parents are or were workers) and the real frustration born from this situation. I know it, I had it. I remember what it is when you live in a perpetual humiliation.
Now, some “petite bourgeoises” want to be seen as revolutionaries… In 2 weeks, they will come back in a normal behaviour and will smoke, drink alcohol, were short skirts, kiss their boyfriends in the street and won’t wear the hidjab, protected from the so-called murder of honour or ritual mutilations by the police and the French laws they spat on yesterday…~:cheers:
And the car’s insurance will rise… Again~:)

Perhaps the more concise and explanatory post so far.
By the way, "Determinism" does exist in English ~;)

[Crazed Rabbit]

NEWS FLASH!

This one is hot off the wire folks:


President Bush May Send Up To 5 Marines For French Assistance
by Richard Harrison for the Washington Post

President Bush has authorized the Joint Chiefs to begin drawing up a battle plan to pull France's ass out of the fire again. Facing an apparent overwhelming force of up to 400 pissed off teenagers Mr. Bush doubts France's ability to hold off the little pissants. "Hell, if the last two world wars are any indication, I would expect France to surrender any day now", said Bush.

Joint Chiefs head, Gen. Peter Pace, warned the President that it might be necessary to send up to 5 Marines to get things under control. The general admitted that 5 Marines may be overkill but he wanted to get this thing under control within 24 hours of arriving on scene. He stated he was having a hard time finding even one Marine to help those ungrateful bastards out for a third time but thought that he could persuade a few women Marines to do the job before they went on pregnancy leave.

President Bush asked Gen. Pace to get our Marines out of there as soon as possible after order was restored. He also reminded Gen. Pace to make sure the Marines did not take soap, razors, or deodorant with them. The least they stand out the better.

All Rights Reserved, Washinton Post, 2005


In case you were wondering, this is totally, to my knowledge, fake.

In all seriousness, I wish the French the best of luck in combating this.

Crazed Rabbit

[Ldvs]

President Bush May Send Up To 5 Marines For French Assistance
I hope Bush won't send more because "Hell, if the last two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are any indication, I would expect France to break into civil war any day now"
This is the first time one of your post make me smile Rabbit

Violence seems to be decreasing now, perhaps we'll need only three or four Marines ~D

[Geoffrey S]

Nice one Crazed Rabbit!

[Brenus]

“President Bush May Send Up To 5 Marines For French Assistance”: He can’t do it, not enough troops. It will overstretch the US Army capacity. And if you see the speed they deployed in Louisiana. They will arrived too late, anyway~D

[scooter_the_shooter]

Paris Rioters Burn Ambulance and Stone Medics

Saturday, November 05, 2005

ACHERES, France — More than 250 predominantly Muslim youths were arrested in Paris' suburbs Saturday during the ninth straight day of rioting—and the worst day of arson—since the riots began more than a week ago.

Youths armed with gasoline bombs moved from Paris' poor, troubled suburbs to shatter the calm of higher-class towns, torching roughly 900 vehicles, a nursery school and other targets.

Police deployed small teams of officers backed by a helicopter to track and chase down youths who sped from one attack to another in cars and on motorbikes.

The violence — originally concentrated in neighborhoods northeast of Paris with large immigrant populations — is forcing France (search) to confront anger long-simmering in its suburbs, where many Africans and their French-born children live on society's margins, struggling with unemployment, poor housing, racial discrimination, crime and a lack of opportunity.

Triggered by the deaths of two teenagers who were electrocuted while fleeing from police, the unrest has taken on unprecedented scope and intensity. The violence hit far-flung corners of France on Saturday, from Rouen in Normandy (search) to Bordeaux in the southwest to Strasbourg (search) near the German border, but the Paris region has borne the brunt.

In quiet Acheres, on the edge of the St. Germain forest west of the capital, arsonists burned a nursery school, where part of the roof caved in, and about a dozen cars in four attacks over an hour that the mayor said seemed "perfectly organized."

Children's photos clung to the blackened walls, and melted plastic toys littered the floor. Residents gathered at the school gate demanded that the army be deployed or suggested that citizens band together to protect their neighborhoods.

Mayor Alain Outreman (search) tried to cool tempers.

"We are not going to start militias," he said. "You would have to be everywhere."

In one particularly malevolent attack, youths in the eastern Paris suburb of Meaux (search) prevented paramedics from evacuating a sick person from a housing project. They pelted rescuers with rocks, then torched the awaiting ambulance, an Interior Ministry official said.

By daybreak Saturday, 897 vehicles were destroyed — a sharp rise from the 500 burned a night earlier, police said. It was the worst one-day toll since the unrest erupted Oct. 27 following the accidental electrocution of the two teenagers who hid in a power substation, apparently believing police were chasing them.

Anger has spread to the Internet, with blogs mourning the youths.

Along with messages of condolence and appeals for calm were insults targeting police, threats of more violence and warnings that the unrest will feed support for France's anti-immigration extreme right.

"Civil war is declared. There will no doubt be deaths. Unfortunately, we have to prepare," said a posting signed "Rania."

"We are going to destroy everything. Rest in peace, guys," wrote "Saint Denis."

Police detained 258 people overnight, almost all in the Paris region, and dozens of them will be prosecuted, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said after a government crisis meeting. He warned of possibly heavy sentences for burning cars.

"Violence penalizes those who live in the toughest conditions," he said.

Most rioting has been in towns with low-income housing projects where unemployment and distrust of police run high. But in a new development, arsonists were moving beyond their heavily policed neighborhoods to attack others with less security, said a national police spokesman, Patrick Hamon.

"They are very mobile, in cars or scooters. ... It is quite hard to combat" he said. "Most are young, very young, we have even seen young minors."

There appeared to be no coordination between separate groups in different areas, Hamon said. But within gangs, he added, youths are communicating by cell phones or e-mails. "They organize themselves, arrange meetings, some prepare the Molotov cocktails."

In Torcy, close to Disneyland Paris, a youth center and a police station were set ablaze. In Suresnes, on the Seine River west of the capital, 44 cars were burned in a parking lot.

"We thought Suresnes was calm," said Naima Mouis, a hospital employee whose car was torched into a twisted hulk of metal.

On Saturday morning, more than 1,000 people took part in a silent march in one of the worst-hit suburbs, Aulnay-sous-Bois. Local officials wore sashes in the red-white-and-blue of the French flag as they filed past housing projects and the wrecks of burned cars. One white banner read "No to violence."

Anger was fanned days ago when a tear gas bomb exploded in a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois, north of Paris — the same suburb where the youths were electrocuted.

Sarkozy also has inflamed passions by referring to troublemakers as "scum."

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin denied that police were to blame. The director of the Great Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, who met Saturday with Villepin, urged the government to choose its words carefully and send a message of peace.

"In such difficult circumstances, every word counts," Boubakeur said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174670,00.html



Civil war guys; get your buts in gear and shoot any one who is holding a brick/Molotov.

[Red Harvest]

“President Bush May Send Up To 5 Marines For French Assistance”: He can’t do it, not enough troops. It will overstretch the US Army capacity. And if you see the speed they deployed in Louisiana. They will arrived too late, anyway~D

Yeah, France will surrender way before then...~:rolleyes:

By the way, the Marines and Army are separate organizations with substantial inter service rivalry. If you refer to them by the wrong service name like this those same 5 marines might pose a bigger risk than the rioters.

[Brenus]

“the Marines and Army are separate organizations”, : Well like the Legion and French Army, I suppose. But they still fight and die for the same country I bet.~:)
“Yeah, France will surrender way before then”: To whom? To the others French? Is it an uprising? No Sire, it is Revolution… No link between the two, but I couldn’t resist. Still, the Marines can’t deploy in less of two weeks (riots in France)? No good, not good. ~D
I think there more than 5 marines in France: Are the guards in the US Embassy Marines? If so, they are not so efficient…~;)

[Meneldil]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174670,00.html



Civil war guys; get your buts in gear and shoot any one who is holding a brick/Molotov.

Well, firstly, thanks for posting outdated news ~D
Secondly, if you want to post something about France, I guess FoxNews isn't the best sources, since they are probably more anti-french than our most leftist politican is anti-american.

Anyway, back to the topic, I must admit that some cops are a bunch of illiterate neo-nazis, but I still stand by the fact the racism toward the arab community is caused by the behaviour of the community, and not the other way around.
Things are starting to calm down (a few riots here and there, a young guy attacked a mosquee yesterday), but France will probably not be the same now.

[TheSilverKnight]

Just heard about the riots in Lyon on BBC News, here's the link -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4430540.stm

Someone in France could shine more light on this I hope.
Gee, I hope everything is going okay over there ~:cheers:

[Red Harvest]

Brenus,

You are confused on a few things...it was the National Guard, not the regular Army or Marines that took so long to deploy. But that isn't relevant for foreign ventures...we deploy rapidly for those, that was one of the key irritants during the hurricane response, how rapidly we deployed Federal relief elsewhere, versus at home.

The big question by the U.S. pundits was who the French would surrender to? And indeed which side would capitulate first since both "sides" are at least nominally French.

The good news is, Mike Brown is looking for work, so you might be able to employ him in the effort to clean up/gain control of the situation.

[Incongruous]

Quick my lads the frogs are down, its time to once and for all conquer France in the name of St. George, a thoroughly Protestant god, some nice tea oh and some bisciuts, Albion, the sake of being english and the Plantagenets!:charge:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Anyway, back to the topic, I must admit that some cops are a bunch of illiterate neo-nazis, but I still stand by the fact the racism toward the arab community is caused by the behaviour of the community, and not the other way around.Amnesty doesn't think so. (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR210012005)
Because Arabs bear brunt of French Police Racism. (http://islamonline.net/English/News/2005-04/19/article03.shtml)
Which led to Saint Denis French Muslims Craving For Government Attention for quite some time since before the riots. (http://islamonline.net/English/News/2005-06/13/article01.shtml)

The Arabs communities need to get (large segments of) their youth in check. But we need to get our act together as well, and think of a way to finally integrate them. It can't carry on like this.


Things are starting to calm down (a few riots here and there, a young guy attacked a mosquee yesterday), but France will probably not be the same now.Yes, we're in for a rough ride. ~:mecry:

[Crazed Rabbit]

I wonder where JAG is, so the 'great social system' the French have can be defended from this pesky reality and accompanying facts.~;)

Crazed Rabbit

[scooter_the_shooter]

LOL rabbit......I wonder where he is also and if he will still defend "the great social system"~:joker:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

“Wow, the few, the proud, the Marines! The best soldiers in the world!” After the Legion, of course (I can’t resist, sorry)~D
Which, by definition, aren't even French. ~D :bow:

[Meneldil]

Which, by definition, aren't even French. ~D :bow:

Wrong. 90% Officers are French, and between 30% and 40% of the Legionaires are French.


I wonder where JAG is, so the 'great social system' the French have can be defended from this pesky reality and accompanying facts.

Maybe he's still so ashamed by the complete failure of the anglo-saxon liberal systems that he hasn't noticed the riots yet. ~:rolleyes:


Amnesty doesn't think so.
Because Arabs bear brunt of French Police Racism.
Which led to Saint Denis French Muslims Craving For Government Attention for quite some time since before the riots.

Great, it's not as if unemployement affected the youth as a whole, and not only the arab communities.
I mean, when people with BAC+5 can't get a decent job (or can't get a job at all), no wonder an arab from Clichy who left school at 16 and can hardly speak a correct french will have a hard time doing so.

[Tribesman]

Whats the story with Sarkozy getting booed by the police and security services when he addressed them , are they not happy with him for some reason or other ?

[ichi]

I heard that if the police don't get this under control, the Prime Minister has threatened to bring the Germans back in

~:cheers:

[QwertyMIDX]

Whats the story with Sarkozy getting booed by the police and security services when he addressed them , are they not happy with him for some reason or other ?


He keeps pissing people off, and then the pissed off people throw rocks and petrol bombs at them.



I find the vindictiveness with which the French are condemning the rioters rather ironic, after all, the French have a long, proud history of political rioting and once again the oppressed are demanding an end to their oppression in the only viable way they have access to. While the rioters could have used more effective tactics (such as targeting government infrastructure instead of individuals or expressing more coherent demands) they are doing the same thing as many lionized Frenchmen and women before them. I wonder if Nicholas Sarkozy would declare those who stormed the Bastille in 1789 or who took to the streets in 1968 scum? Somehow I seriously doubt it, especially in the former case. It would seem that to be scum, and to warrant police repression, you have to have the wrong color skin, or at least the wrong politics. Of course this sort of thing is not restricted to France and its dealings with its poor, Muslim minority; it is rampant across the entire world. When a State is forced to resort to large scale coercive force to maintain order it has become a police-state, relying on repression rather than the support, or at least the acquiescence, of the people to maintain its own power. Perhaps if more people realized that any State which drives its own people, or allows an unjust economic system to drive its people, to violent rioting is illegitimate we could live in a world marked by true social peace, rather than one of simmering social unrest waiting to be set off.

[Fragony]

Yay, Rotterdam joins the fray. No arrests of course, hey it's Holland, the only gun the police uses here are laserguns aimed at our wallets. I know where I'll be heading this saturday, this is going to hurt ~:cheers:

[Meneldil]

He keeps pissing people off, and then the pissed off people throw rocks and petrol bombs at them.



I find the vindictiveness with which the French are condemning the rioters rather ironic, after all, the French have a long, proud history of political rioting and once again the oppressed are demanding an end to their oppression in the only viable way they have access to. While the rioters could have used more effective tactics (such as targeting government infrastructure instead of individuals or expressing more coherent demands) they are doing the same thing as many lionized Frenchmen and women before them. I wonder if Nicholas Sarkozy would declare those who stormed the Bastille in 1789 or who took to the streets in 1968 scum? Somehow I seriously doubt it, especially in the former case.

Well, once again, this comparison is *really* silly.

The Revolution in 1789 was led by enlightened upper class bourgeois. The low-classes were just a tool, but then, the low-classes peasants (90% of the total population) really lived like slaves. No property, no rights except dying from starvation, etc.

The rioters in 1968 (who were IMO a bunch of idiots) did not burn thousands of cars, did not set fire at old women, did not kill innocents just for the fun of it. They had a somewhat legitimate (although stupid) claim. There were also led by the intellectual elites.

Now, the people rioting here are people whose main occupation is to steal, rape, smoke, deal drug and scare their neighbours, led by radical imams and illiterate gang leaders. They represent what 0.5 ? 1, at best 2 % of the population in France. They have a shitload of different claims, but these are just excuses to riot and to throw whatever they find at cops.

[Adrian II]

Now, the people rioting here are people whose main occupation is to steal, rape, smoke, deal drug and scare their neighbours, led by radical imams and illiterate gang leaders.It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?

[Fragony]

It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?

When they steal, rape and deal drugs they justify it with their faith AdrianII. I highly doubt there is a radical imam behind all this but Islam is the dividing factor here, be it an excuse or not. You want to throw it all on their living conditions, then explain to me why it is spreading to Holland, Belgium, Greek and even Denmark(!). I am just going to kick the shit out of them next saturday, wanna come?

[Adrian II]

When they steal, rape and deal drugs they justify it with their faith AdrianII.Oh sure. Dealing drugs for Allah. Raping in the name of the Prophet (honoured be his name). LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?
I am just going to kick the shit out of them next Saturday, wanna come?No, I have jihad training in the Ardennes on Saturday mornings.

[Red Harvest]

It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?

Not so fast...in the U.S. the prisons have quite a few of converts to Islam. Their background is of course: theft, rape, drugs, murder, etc. (Whether or not they have reformed while in prison is a separate matter.) You really can't reject the possibility of radical imams on that basis.

And from what I've heard it is not uncommon for jihadists to have some interesting chemicals in their systems during combat. Considering radical imams think suicide bombing is OK, I wouldn't put much of anything past them, nor their followers.

[Fragony]

Oh sure. Dealing drugs for Allah. Raping in the name of the Prophet (honoured bhis name). LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?

You are pretty uninformed for a journalist. Find me a dutch radical muslim without a crime record if you please. It is called 'funding'.

LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?

NRC Handelsblad and De Trouw mostly.

No, I have jihad training in the Ardennes on Saturday mornings

Owww common, It will be fun. Maybe a nice item for your newspaper, the shit is going to hit the fan next saturday, unless it stops of course.

[Adrian II]

You are pretty uninformed for a journalist. Find me a dutch radical muslim without a crime record if you please.Find me some radical imams behind the French riots, that's what we are on about. Until now, all that imams have done in these neighbourhoods is to patrol the streets in the evenings and to call for calm, to urge parents to keep their children off the streets and to explain in their Friday sermons that the rioting is an abomination in the eyes of Allah. Heck, a lot of rioters aren't even of Arab or Muslim descent.

Unless you and Red Harvest can come up with the goods, you had better keep those tinfoil hats out of sight. They look rather silly.

[Fragony]

I never said they were, the imams cannot control them, they lost them a long time ago. But to say that Islam has nothing to do with it is just silly. But how much proof do you need really? When you will finally recognise the proof it will be slicing of your head. Explain to me the occurance of riots in those other countries please, and I would like to hear the words 'social exclusion'.

[Adrian II]

Explain to me the occurance of riots in those other countries please, and I would like to hear the words 'social exclusion'.Riots in The Netherlands? Four cars were set on fire in Rotterdam in an apparent copy-cat action. No riots, no confrontations.

Anyway, since there is an urban underclass in most European countries I wouldn't be surprised to see more such incidents. If you want to know what I really think is a major cause of such behaviour, it would be the criminal subculture in these neighbourhoods, reinforced by the drug trade.

[Meneldil]

It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?

I didn't know one would have to follow the teaching of Islam to be a radicam muslim.
And, yeah, we won't find any radical Imam among the rioters, but what's happening is what these imams have been preaching for for years.


Heck, a lot of rioters aren't even of Arab or Muslim descent.

What does 'a lot' stand for ? 10% ? 20% ? Of course, there are the blacks, who aren't arabs, but who are also mostly muslims. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of the rioters are actually white or 'asians' (who might aswell have converted to Islam, since it's somewhat fancy lately)

[Fragony]

Riots in The Netherlands? Four cars were set on fire in Rotterdam in an apparent copy-cat action. No riots, no confrontations.

Anyway, since there is an urban underclass in most European countries I wouldn't be surprised to see more such incidents. If you want to know what I really think is a major cause of such behaviour, it would be the criminal subculture in these neighbourhoods, reinforced by the drug trade.

I don't know what you would call 200 north africans with knives, baseballbats and gassoline that are shouting 'the war has begun'. And a lot more happened then the newspapers are willing to print, people have been molested while the police were doing their thing (which is nothing). Screw excuses, we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

November 08, 2005
Spencer: Jihad in Europe?
This morning in FrontPage I follow up on this piece by pulling together a bit more of the evidence about what is happening in France (and elsewhere in Europe now). Many news links in the original:

Has an intifada begun in France — an all-out jihad? Are the French facing what is by now, as the riots are well into their second week and have engulfed virtually the entire country, a full-scale insurrection from immigrant youth who simply resent being marginalized and shunted to the fringes of French society? Or does the unrest have something to do with the agenda of jihadists worldwide? As is becoming increasingly well known, Osama bin Laden and others all over the world want to unify the Islamic world under a restored caliphate, reestablish the rule of Islamic law, and extend the hegemony of that law, Sharia, to the rest of the world also. Does that play any role in the French riots?
Evidence so far is somewhat sketchy. Mainstream media reports have centered on the rioters’ economic and cultural marginalization. “Theirs,” laments AP, “is a drab life of days spent smoking hashish, hanging out on street corners.” An 18-year-old named Ahmed complains: “You wear these clothes, with this color skin and you’re automatically a target for police.” Some analysts, indulging in various degrees of schadenfreude, have alleged that France’s ingrained racism, snobbery toward outsiders, and mistreatment of Muslim immigrants are responsible for the riots.

Yet the horror stories detailing this mistreatment that are now filling the news do not entirely ring true. France has not neglected its sizable Muslim minority. Not too long ago it established an official organization to oversee French Islam, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), and has even discussed revising France’s secular laws to allow the government to fund mosques in France, in order to wean them away from “extremist” foreign influences.


Nor have Muslims been marginalized in French public life. Dalil Boubakeur, leader of the CFCM and imam of the Paris mosque, enjoys high visibility. After the French government announced plans to expel jihadist imams from France in May 2004, then-Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin told Boubakeur that he wanted to “reassure the Muslim community” of “his willingness to treat it as he treats other faiths.” Boubakeur explained that as far as Raffarin was concerned, “there is no lumping together of the expulsion of imams and the Muslim community in general.” When two French journalists were kidnapped in Iraq in August 2004, then-Interior Minister (and current Prime Minister) Dominique de Villepin went to Boubakeur’s mosque to join Muslims in prayer for their release — and drew applause when he spoke of the unity between non-Muslims and Muslims in France.
De Villepin’s mosque visit was emblematic of France’s ongoing efforts to make its Muslim population feel included, loved, and French — efforts they are now being universally excoriated for not having made. And there are several indications that the riots are not wholly or solely about economic and social marginalization at all, and that the Islamic jihad agenda is a significant element fueling their continuing spread:

• It has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.

• The rioters have been shouting the jihad battle cry, “Allahu akbar.” As Muhammad Atta wrote in his final exhortation to himself, “When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, ‘Allahu Akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.” While the mainstream media continues to identify the rioters as “French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim,” in fact the Islamic identity of the rioters is quite clear: rioters have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.

• The rioters have thrown Molotov cocktails at two French synagogues, making it likely that they subscribe to the deeply rooted hatred of Jews that so many jihadists share. They have also set two churches on fire, further reinforcing the impression that they view their struggle as fundamentally religious, and consider the terrorizing of Jews and Christians to be part of their religious responsibility, in accord with Qur’an 9:29, which directs Muslims to wage war even against “the People of the Book”: the Qur’an’s term for — primarily — Jews and Christians.

• Mouloud Dahmani is a Muslim leader in France who is trying to prevail upon the French to allow for a group of Muslim Brotherhood sheikhs to negotiate an end to the riots. The Muslim Brotherhood, of course, is the first modern Islamic jihad organization and the direct forefather of Hamas and Al-Qaeda. Dahmani has declared: “All we demand is to be left alone.” This is a strange statement coming from the leader of a community that resents being marginalized and longs to enter the mainstream of French society. Left alone? Quite literally. Journalist Amir Taheri says that the Muslims in France are not actually interested in assimilation at all; rather, they want autonomy: “Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the ‘millet’ system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.” He reports that “in parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place.” Muslim leaders control the area and French officials, including police, simply do not enter.

• Postings on Muslim weblogs indicate that the riots are not spontaneous outpourings of rage, but carefully planned endeavors. Some revealed not only the planning involved in the riots, which have now swept all across France and have spread also to Denmark, Belgium and Germany, but also the Islamic supremacist goal behind them. One wrote: “The cops are petrified of us, everything must burn, starting Monday, the operation ‘Midnight Sun’ starts, tell everyone else, rendezvous for Momo and Abdul in Zone 4 ... jihad Islamia Allah Akhbar.” Another added: “You don’t really think that we’re going to stop now? Are you stupid? It will continue, non-stop. We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here.”

Meanwhile, the Union for Islamic Organizations of France, which has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, has issued a fatwa declaring: “It is formally forbidden to any Muslim seeking divine grace and satisfaction to participate in any action that blindly hits private or public property or could constitute an attack on someone’s life.” There is a strange ambiguity in this, recalling that of the CAIR-backed American fatwa condemning attacks on innocent civilians without defining “innocent”: what constitutes attacking “blindly”? Is a focused, targeted attack somehow acceptable?

The time for such ambiguity is long past. And indeed, lines are being drawn everywhere.



LINK (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008897.php)

[BDC]

It's not their faith. It's because the average French person uses being 'republican' as an excuse to be racist to anyone who isn't white French. Even part of the French beurocracy said so recently.

[Fragony]

It's not their faith. It's because the average French person uses being 'republican' as an excuse to be racist to anyone who isn't white French. Even part of the French beurocracy said so recently.

Holland/Belgium/Denmark/Greece/Germany/Spain?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It's not their faith. It's because the average French person uses being 'republican' as an excuse to be racist to anyone who isn't white French. Even part of the French beurocracy said so recently.


So why arent the Jews and blacks(african frenchman?) who arent Musliim not rioting?

[Fragony]

So why arent the Jews and blacks(african frenchman?) who arent Musliim not rioting?

Hush, that is a valid question given the situation and we don't like that over here. A yugoslavian friend once told me, when the muslim population in a non-muslim country grows bigger then 10% of the overall population then civil war will errupt, and don't they know it. France is proving them wrong with just 1%, they have 9%. All the countries I mentioned before are about 8% jihadmeat, France is learning the hard way that they shouldn't adopt primitive cultures because envy is a bitch when you don't slap it like one.

[yesdachi]

The moral of the story seems to be, don’t let other cultures/religions/races in mass into your country.

Not saying that I can’t work, the US is a good example of it working (not for the Native Americans) but there has been a lot of hostility here between cultures/religions/races, it is a delicate balance for sure.

[Adrian II]

So why arent the Jews and blacks(african frenchman?) who arent Musliim not rioting?Because you read all the wrong blogs. Nothing new there. All this talk of 'Intifadah in France' is just grey noise, the result of middle America working off its small-town blues.

Look, there are basically two strains of salafism/wahhabism at work in the Muslim world.
The 'pious' strain that turns its back on worldly affairs and strives for the pure inner life, which happens to be peaceful and non-political as well. These 'sheikists' as they are known observe all the rules prescribed by stern mullahs. In case of religious emergency they dial a number in one of the Gulf states to get a fatwa telling them whether it is okay to go shopping after dark or something. They are just like Jewish followers of some rabbi or other who order their matzes from the Supreme Rabbinate of Jerusalem. Weird, but not dangerous at all, and certainly not involved in the French riots.
The militant strain that strives for a new Khalifate. These imams gather very small groups of followers in total isolation from the surrounding society. This isolation is necessary to prepare the followers psychologically for the tasks ahead. Such imams would have to be complete idiots to asociate with rioters and street gangs, thus exposing their networks to police scrutiny.As I said, just give me a couple of phat, juicy French riot imams to sink my teeth in. I won't walk away from the issue. I am genuinely interested in what happens. Of course don't buy the Milosevic line on 10% Muslims = trouble, that is just fascist propaganda, Fragony. And I have this strange attachment to a thing called civilisation, so I never join demonstrations that are intended to 'beat the shit' out of someone or other.

I would like to see you trying to beat up a 17-year-old streetwise Moroccan though. I know whom I'd put my money on.
~;p

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I would like to see you trying to beat up a 17-year-old streetwise Moroccan though. I know whom I'd put my money on.



You better put it on the 57 year old street wise New Yorker and ex Marine my friend.


Because you read all the wrong blogs. Nothing new there. All this talk of 'Intifadah in France' is just grey noise, the result of middle America working off its small-town blues.


I could say the same of you. Besides I dont live in middle america nor a small town.

[Devastatin Dave]

Find me some radical imams behind the French riots, that's what we are on about. Until now, all that imams have done in these neighbourhoods is to patrol the streets in the evenings and to call for calm, to urge parents to keep their children off the streets and to explain in their Friday sermons that the rioting is an abomination in the eyes of Allah. Heck, a lot of rioters aren't even of Arab or Muslim descent.

Unless you and Red Harvest can come up with the goods, you had better keep those tinfoil hats out of sight. They look rather silly.


Hey Adrian, what was and still the main export in Afganastan? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't berkas or Qurans, it was something that grows and has a pretty flower. So your drug arguement holds no water, like most of your posts. If you're a journalist then that must explain why the news is so inaccurate these days.

[Geoffrey S]

The rioters have been shouting the jihad battle cry, “Allahu akbar.” As Muhammad Atta wrote in his final exhortation to himself, “When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, ‘Allahu Akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.” While the mainstream media continues to identify the rioters as “French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim,” in fact the Islamic identity of the rioters is quite clear: rioters have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.
Doesn't this fit in with the idea of "French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim"? Lots of malcontent kids who think it's cool to shout Allahu akbar without understanding why, but who will probably grow out of this kind of behaviour as they become older? It's the way with most of kids, to naturally seek extremes when there isn't a guiding hand to keep an eye on them, in poltical as well as social contexts; as the years go by this tends to turn milder among most, whilst a few nutters get stuck in such ways. Granted, the extremes they're seeking now are intolerable and should be punished but it does fit in with the general behaviour of rebellious youths.

Postings on Muslim weblogs indicate that the riots are not spontaneous outpourings of rage, but carefully planned endeavors. Some revealed not only the planning involved in the riots, which have now swept all across France and have spread also to Denmark, Belgium and Germany, but also the Islamic supremacist goal behind them. One wrote: “The cops are petrified of us, everything must burn, starting Monday, the operation ‘Midnight Sun’ starts, tell everyone else, rendezvous for Momo and Abdul in Zone 4 ... jihad Islamia Allah Akhbar.” Another added: “You don’t really think that we’re going to stop now? Are you stupid? It will continue, non-stop. We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here.”
To be honest this also reeks of youths. What kind of a serious jihadist would go around posting on websites? Youths use internet and mobile phones continuously and are well at home when it comes to organizing things through electronic means; like Fragony when he states he's planning to taunt Muslims in the weekend, presumably alongside friends.

A yugoslavian friend once told me, when the muslim population in a non-muslim country grows bigger then 10% of the overall population then civil war will errupt, and don't they know it.
Former Yugoslavians have a great track record when it comes to ethnic tolerance, don't they?

[Kralizec]

Hey Adrian, what was and still the main export in Afganastan? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't berkas or Qurans, it was something that grows and has a pretty flower. So your drug arguement holds no water, like most of your posts. If you're a journalist then that must explain why the news is so inaccurate these days.


Well, our former friends the Taliban actually were very repressive against opium growers. We supported them too, giving them money for cutting off the heads of farmers.

[Adrian II]

I could say the same of you.No, you couldn't. I don't get my information solely from blogs that are up my own political alley.

If you would take the same approach, you would know for instance that the rioters were not just young Arabs or Muslims. You could learn a lot more by simply reading this thread from beginning to end. Our French friends, who lived the episode, have more than a couple of interesting things to say about it too.

[Ser Clegane]

Interview with Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan about French riots (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,384900,00.html)

[Adrian II]

Hey Adrian, what was and still the main export in Afghanistan?In fact the Taliban were the only movement in recent Afghan history that openly condemned drug production and use and openly burned both poppy plantations and the farmers who planted them.
So your drug arguement holds no water, like most of your posts. If you're a journalist then that must explain why the news is so inaccurate these days.

Dear Dave, I am, in fact, remarkably well-informed for a journalist. https://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6645/sunglassescool5el.gif
Which is the main reason why I don't buy most of the cr@p that passes for 'news'. Oh, and it isn't just today that most 'news' is inaccurate. It has always been that way.

[Meneldil]

I like the way Ramadan calls the feeling of the french toward muslims 'racism' and the feeling of the muslims toward the french a refusal of 'self-abandonment'.

[Tribesman]

I know where I'll be heading this saturday, this is going to hurt
I am just going to kick the shit out of them next saturday, wanna come?
Owww common, It will be fun. Maybe a nice item for your newspaper, the shit is going to hit the fan next saturday
Screw excuses, we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.

Shine up the Jackboots guys , the Dutch Nazis are having a party .~:rolleyes:
Don't be careful when you are burning down the mosque Fragony , wouldn't want you to hurt yourself too slightly .

Well, our former friends the Taliban actually were very repressive against opium growers. We supported them too, giving them money for cutting off the heads of farmers.
Shhhh don't confuse him with facts Strijder , and certainly don't mention that his allies are the Drug Barons or that the Predident they helped into power has family holdings given over to opium production .~D

[Adrian II]

Come on guys, we all know who's behind the riots.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40990000/jpg/_40990732_mcdonald_ap416.jpg

[Geoffrey S]

Run, it's Bin Laden in disguise!

[Adrian II]

Run, it's Bin Laden in disguise!Man, just look at the bomb shoes on that mother.
~:eek:

[Geoffrey S]

And he's leaning on the new dastardly Al-Qaeda weapon, the Invisible WMD!

[Louis VI the Fat]

I like the way Ramadan calls the feeling of the french toward muslims 'racism' and the feeling of the muslims toward the french a refusal of 'self-abandonment'.Well lately I haven't been in the mood for any self-abandonment in my feelings towards some muslim youths either. ~;)

[Adrian II]

And he's leaning on the new dastardly Al-Qaeda weapon, the Invisible WMD!He won't be smiling next Saturday, will he, Fragony? :sneaky:

[Papewaio]

I never said they were, the imams cannot control them, they lost them a long time ago. But to say that Islam has nothing to do with it is just silly. But how much proof do you need really? When you will finally recognise the proof it will be slicing of your head. Explain to me the occurance of riots in those other countries please, and I would like to hear the words 'social exclusion'.

Two sets of riots have happened in Sydney similar to what has happened in France. Religion is not the connecting strain it is poverty and social exclusion.

One involved Australian Aboriginals the other a primarily government housing estate... both sets rely heavily on welfare and are ostrasized both by there lack of money and education from mainstream Australia.

Redfern Riots (http://www.smh.com.au/specials/redfern/)

Redfern Riots - Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Redfern_riots)


The Redfern riot occurred on February 14, 2004 in the inner city suburb of Redfern, sparked by the death of Thomas 'TJ' Hickey, a 17 year old Australian Aborigine.

The teenager was riding home on his bicycle from his girlfriend's house, when he apparently spotted a police car and assumed it was chasing him. There was an outstanding arrest warrant in his name, but police have consistently maintained that the patrol car was searching for a different individual, wanted in connection with a violent bag snatch at Redfern Station earlier the same day. Regardless, TJ Hickey lost control of his bicycle while cornering and impaled himself on a spiked fence. Police arrived at the scene quickly, but were unable to save him.

Noel Hadjimichael is Webdiary's conservative columnist. (http://webdiary.smh.com.au/archives/noel_hadjimichael/000766.html)

NSW Legislative Council Hansard - MACQUARIE FIELDS RIOTS (http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20050302046)


Reverend the Hon. Dr GORDON MOYES [8.49 p.m.]: Until recently many of us would not have known the whereabouts of, or much about, a suburb by the name of Macquarie Fields. The suburb was flung into the community's consciousness on Saturday morning with the news that two teenagers had been killed in the area as a result of a police pursuit the night before. The car that the teenagers were driving was stolen. Perhaps the three occupants had many convictions between them, as I am led to believe. Since then we have heard much about the fierce animosity that some members of the Macquarie Fields community—mostly young people—feel for the Police Force. Riots followed the fatal crash on Friday, during which groups of rioters hurled rocks, bottles, and fire and chemical bombs at police. Consecutive nights of clashes on Macquarie Fields streets caused much unease and distress for both the community and police.

Note both sets of riots were sparked when people died and the police were blamed.

Edit 2: And neither set are Islamic.

[Papewaio]

Screw excuses, we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.

Who is we?, and what is going to happen on Saturday?

[Turin]

Sorry if I seem a bit ignorant, but living in an American university, I kind of live in a bubble...

Anyway, have the riots in Paris finally subsided? If so, what new measures have been taken?

Were it I who governed that country, I'd show those rioters the French are indeed the descendants of Charles Martel, the Hammer of God. LOL

[Tribesman]

Who is we?, and what is going to happen on Saturday?

Would you like a link Adrian , though it would break forum rules so try Volkermords top 88 hate sites page and go to the Dutch groups .~:rolleyes:

[Adrian II]

Who is we?, and what is going to happen on Saturday?

Would you like a link Adrian You mean Papewaio. I can track our Dutch fascists by myself, thank you! ~;)

[Tribesman]

OOOPs , sorry ~;)

[Papewaio]

Ohhh the Facists are comming out! :cheerleader:

Silk Shirts, Shiny Boots, Chains :biker: ... you'd think it was a lesbian pride march except these guys aren't butch enough. :elephant:

[Tribesman]

you'd think it was a lesbian pride march except these guys aren't butch enough.
OOOh nasty ~D ~D ~D
Or smart enough .....I know where I'll be heading this saturday, this is going to hurt

Oh dear criminal intent .
I am just going to kick the shit out of them next saturday, wanna come?

Incitement to violence.
we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.

Conspiracy to create a threat to public order .

There you go three charges before he even left the house , better bring some lubricant Frag , you wouldn't want a sore bottom in jail would you~D ~D ~D
Oh and who will write and complain about the injustices of racists getting locked up in "Dutchiestan" for breaking the law eh ?~:mecry:
And you might have to miss out on the gathering on the 26th~:rolleyes:

[el_slapper]

Sorry if I seem a bit ignorant, but living in an American university, I kind of live in a bubble...

Anyway, have the riots in Paris finally subsided? If so, what new measures have been taken?

Were it I who governed that country, I'd show those rioters the French are indeed the descendants of Charles Martel, the Hammer of God. LOL

That's going down asleep, slowly but surely. Seems back my comeback from Birmingham did cool those *µ@$¤% down~D . At the same time, emergency state is on for 3 months. What a joke. Doesn't change anything at all. just babbling & babbling ~:mecry:

At least it's nearly quiet now. ~;p

[Redleg]

That's going down asleep, slowly but surely. Seems back my comeback from Birmingham did cool those *µ@$¤% down~D . At the same time, emergency state is on for 3 months. What a joke. Doesn't change anything at all. just babbling & babbling ~:mecry:

At least it's nearly quiet now. ~;p

Glad to hear that its beginning to calm down.

[el_slapper]

Glad to hear that its beginning to calm down.

Thanks.

Not that I've been personally threatened(you'd be only living in the poorest quarters), but it's always better to know it's nearly back to normal.