View Full Version : Help! Help! I'm Being Oppressed!
Mongoose
12-14-2005, 05:42
The new changes to the .org favor christianity over other religions! Look at the smile list!:san_angry: Gah! there it is again, Gah!
Ok, i've got that out of my system. What are your thoughts on the effort in the U.S to remove Christmas decorations form public display? I've always heard lots of Conservatives in the media talking about it, but i've yet to see it in my state....
m52nickerson
12-14-2005, 05:55
I think it is a bunch of crap! There is suppost to be free speech in the US. I can see no have x-mas decorations in schools or other goverment building, but removing from all public view? If I want to put a merry christmas sign on my front lawn you can damn sure I will. Imagine the government trying to tell a Jewish family they could not have try minora (spelling?) in there window. It comes down to the fact that if you don't want to look at something DON'T.
Now that my rant is done, merry christmas!:san_wink:
Kaiser of Arabia
12-14-2005, 06:00
Gah. America is owned by the leftist elite. What do you expect?
Spetulhu
12-14-2005, 06:02
If I want to put a merry christmas sign on my front lawn you can damn sure I will. Imagine the government trying to tell a Jewish family they could not have try minora (spelling?) in there window. It comes down to the fact that if you don't want to look at something DON'T.
A sensible way of thinking.
Not that the decorations as such irritate me, but why oh why do people start placing them six weeks in advance? I'm tired of looking at the stupid things already, and it's only the 14th! :san_angry:
The line is "I'm being repressed", actually. Listen very closely; you can hear the difference.
As much as I don't like the 'holiday' in question, I can deal with having to look away from the decorations. We don't have the problem with taking down decorations in Canada to the extent that America does, but it does work the other way. People will spell out 'JESUS LOVES YOU' in little blinking lights on their houses, but I'm prohibited by law to write 'SOD OFF'.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-14-2005, 06:09
I'm a hardcore Santaist.
have you been naughty or nice?
Edit: glory to old St.Nic
Edit: P.S. nice signature Mongoose.
Sasaki Kojiro
12-14-2005, 06:19
Meh, my family is atheist and we still celebrate Christmas and have that little manger thing or whatever you call it.
If walmart or whoever thinks that putting out christmas decorations is going to hurt there business then they are naturaly going to be as pc as possible.
Samurai Waki
12-14-2005, 06:38
they're just decorations, get over it already. It's not like Christians go over to every jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist, and atheist family and tell them that they 'have to celebrate it'. I think Christmas is universally accepted as a part of our culture in the US, and to hell with anyone who thinks differently. I may not be a part of any religion, but it's a good time of year to get together with your friends and family members, and exchange gifts, and just being thankful that someone out in that cold lonely world actually cares about you.
Strike For The South
12-14-2005, 06:39
down here its still merry christmas...commies
The whole "war on Christmas" line of outrage is being puffed up as an issue at a time when it would be really convenient for certain folks in power to have the subject changed.
A lot of the reported "war" is distorted beyond fact. Some of it is straight-up invented. Bill O'Reilly (Fox News) announced that a town in Michigan was outlawing the wearing of green and red. He then sputtered on about how a big, tough guy like him would dress from head to toe in X-mas colors to show that town who's boss. When somebody bothered to call the town, the whole thing turned out to be a lie. But who really cares about the facts? (http://www.wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=4235657)
It's been a bad year for the ruling party. They'd love to set up a straw man to knock over. Hence the "War on Christmas."
Rodion Romanovich
12-14-2005, 07:16
Over here some tasteless official buildings used to start Christmas decorations in November the last few years, which took out most of the excitement for Christmas, so I wouldn't have been sad if they'd forbidden official decorations at that time. Now it seems it's self-regulating though, as people seem to have boycotted the stores that had decorations too early, so this year they're starting later...
What exactly is the US effort trying to do? Forbid it in public buildings/stores, or also in the windows of ordinary people?
A lot of the reported "war" is distorted beyond fact. Some of it is straight-up invented. Bill O'Reilly (Fox News) announced that a town in Michigan was outlawing the wearing of green and red. He then sputtered on about how a big, tough guy like him would dress from head to toe in X-mas colors to show that town who's boss. When somebody bothered to call the town, the whole thing turned out to be a lie. But who really cares about the facts? (http://www.wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=4235657)
It's been a bad year for the ruling party. They'd love to set up a straw man to knock over. Hence the "War on Christmas."O'Reilly is a blowhard- so no suprises there. However, one example does not a case make- that's called a 'hasty generalization'. :wink:
Well then, if you're really buying into the "War on Christmas" (and I'm not saying you are), please provide some examples of how this war is being waged.
I'd say the prime offenders would be the Pilgrims. Those God-fearing, black-wearing pinkos didn't celebrate Christmas at all. How dare they call it decadent!
What exactly is the US effort trying to do? Forbid it in public buildings/stores, or also in the windows of ordinary people?
There is no special "US effort." And nobody has ever suggested that the windows of ordinary people should be legislated beyond the existing local statutes involving how much noise and light one can project. (Oh, there are probably some communities with detailed rules about how close to the sidewalk, etc., but that applies to everything in those places. They're just being @nal.)
This Lemur contends that the entire "War on Christmas" theme has been raised for the sole purpose of giving religious conservatives something to feel outraged and oppressed about. Red meat for the red voters, nothing more. There have been no more challenges to publicly funded displays this year than there have been on any other year. Situation normal. Unless you soften your brain with cable news.
Sasaki Kojiro
12-14-2005, 07:54
There is no special "US effort." And nobody has ever suggested that the windows of ordinary people should be legislated beyond the existing local statutes involving how much noise and light one can project. (Oh, there are probably some communities with detailed rules about how close to the sidewalk, etc., but that applies to everything in those places. They're just being @nal.)
This Lemur contends that the entire "War on Christmas" theme has been raised for the sole purpose of giving religious conservatives something to feel outraged and oppressed about. Red meat for the red voters, nothing more. There have been no more challenges to publicly funded displays this year than there have been on any other year. Situation normal. Unless you soften your brain with cable news.
On the contrar, the situation is far from normal:
WASHINGTON, DC—In a sudden and unexpected blow to the Americans working to protect the holiday, liberal U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Stephen Reinhardt ruled the private celebration of Christmas unconstitutional Monday.
Activist Judge Cancels Christmas
Per the court order, city workers take down the Christmas tree from New York's Rockefeller Plaza.
"In accordance with my activist agenda to secularize the nation, this court finds Christmas to be unlawful," Judge Reinhardt said. "The celebration of the birth of the philosopher Jesus—be it in the form of gift-giving, the singing of carols, fanciful decorations, or general good cheer and warm feelings amongst families—is in violation of the First Amendment principles upon which this great nation was founded."
In addition to forbidding the celebration of Christmas in any form, Judge Reinhardt has made it illegal to say "Merry Christmas." Instead, he has ruled that Americans must say "Happy Holidays" or "Vacaciones Felices" if they wish to extend good tidings.
Within an hour of the judge's verdict, National Guard troops were mobilized to enforce the controversial ruling.
"Sorry, kids, no Christmas this year," Beloit, WI mall Santa Gene Ernot said as he was led away from his Santa's Village in leg irons. "Write to your congressman to put a stop to these liberal activist judges. It's up to you to save Christmas! Ho ho ho!"
Said Pvt. Stanley Cope, who tasered Ernot for his outburst: "We're fighting an unpopular war on Christmas, but what can we do? The military has no choice but to take orders from a lone activist judge."
Across America, the decision of the all-powerful liberal courts was met with shock and disappointment, as American families quietly took down their holiday decorations and canceled their plans to gather and make merry.
"They've been chipping away at Christmas rights for decades," Fox News personality John Gibson said. "Even before this ruling, you couldn't hear a Christmas song on the radio or in a department store. I hate to say it, America, but I told you so."
Judge Stephen Reinhardt of the U.S. 9th Circuit of Appeals issues his ruling.
Gibson then went into hiding, vowing to be a vital part of the Christmas resistance that would eventually triumph and bring Christmas back to the United States and its retail stores.
The ban is not limited to the retail sector. In support of Reinhardt's ruling, Sen. Ted Kennedy, a Jew, introduced legislation that would mandate the registration of every Christian in the United States and subject their houses to random searches to ensure they are not celebrating Christmas.
"Getting rid of every wreath or nativity scene is not enough," Kennedy said. "In order to ensure that Americans of every belief feel comfortable in any home or business, we must eliminate all traces of this offensive holiday. My yellow belly quakes with fear at the thought of offending any foreigners, atheists, or child molesters."
America's children are bearing the brunt of Reinhardt's marginal, activist rulings.
"Why did the bad man take away Christmas?" 5-year-old Danny Dover said. "I made a card for my mommy out of paper and glue, and now I can't give it to her."
Shortly after Dover issued his statement, police kicked down his door, removed his holiday tree, confiscated his presents, and crushed his homemade card underfoot.
A broad, bipartisan coalition of lawmakers has been working closely with the White House, banding together in the hope of somehow overruling the decision. So far, however, their efforts have been fruitless.
"Our hearts go out to the Americans this ruling affects," Sen. Chip Pickering (R-MS) said. "If it's any condolence, I wish you all a Happy Holidays, which, I'm afraid, is all I'm legally allowed to say at this time."
:san_cheesy:
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Christmas-Canceled-C.article.jpg
Rodion Romanovich
12-14-2005, 08:09
There is no special "US effort." And nobody has ever suggested that the windows of ordinary people should be legislated beyond the existing local statutes involving how much noise and light one can project. (Oh, there are probably some communities with detailed rules about how close to the sidewalk, etc., but that applies to everything in those places. They're just being @nal.)
Ok, sorry, my interpretation of the opening post almost suggested something like that, which sounded strange and unlikely to me.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 08:54
This Lemur contends that the entire "War on Christmas" theme has been raised for the sole purpose of giving religious conservatives something to feel outraged and oppressed about. Red meat for the red voters, nothing more. There have been no more challenges to publicly funded displays this year than there have been on any other year. Situation normal. Unless you soften your brain with cable news.
Its not just about displays.
ACLU Style Political Correctness Hits the USPS
by Gribbit on 11-25-05 @ 2:56 pm Filed under News, Christmas
It is official, the United States Postal Service has now folded to the anti-Christmas PC movement. Postal employees are no longer allowed to say to customers “Merry Christmas.” And if that isn’t enough, no more Christmas stamps.
The busiest time of year for the USPS is the Christmas/Chanukah season. More letters, greeting cards, and packages are shipped via the USPS during the last week in November and the first 24 days in December than the rest of the year combined.
We, in our 21st century need for instant gratification, now rely on email, instant messaging, and mobile telephones to do our communication. We no longer take the time to hand write letters and other communications, place a stamp on an envelope, and drop it in a blue box. We now boot up the computer, connect to the internet, type out a message, click send and it’s there. No need for a stamp. No waiting days for it to arrive and days more for a reply.
The USPS has decided that the traditional “Madonna and Child” had to be replaced with “Holiday Cookie” stamps.
From the USPS:
The season kicks off on Oct. 20 with the dedication of the 2005 holiday stamps, celebrating the child in everyone and evoking favorite memories from the simple pleasure of decorating cookies of the season. The stamps, featuring cookie-shaped gingerbread men, Santa Claus, snowmen and an angel, will be dedicated at a special ceremony in the Pillsbury Test Kitchens in Minneapolis. Anita Bizzotto, USPS Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer, will be the dedicating official.
“What would the holidays be without cookies? These cookie stamps are a great way to share the joy of the season,” Bizzotto said.
What I cannot figure out is why they are willing to ditch the traditional “Madonna and Child” which is a reproduction of a classic work of art for seemingly secular images of holiday cookies, one of which is a representation of an angel? Excuse me, but wouldn’t an angel be considered a religious symbol? What purpose does it serve to remove a classic work of art that is in keeping with the traditional meaning of the season in favor of a generic animated image of an angel?
The USPS has a limited supply of last year’s Madonna and Child stamps available for purchase. But, once they are gone, there will be no more produced. I see this as another battle won by the secular left in the War on Christmas. The USPS should be ashamed of themselves.
• In Illinois, state government workers were forbidden from saying the words “Merry Christmas” while at work
• In Rhode Island, local officials banned Christians from participating in a public project to decorate the lawn of City Hall
• A New Jersey school banned even instrumental versions of traditional Christmas carols
• Arizona school officials ruled it unconstitutional for a student to make any reference to the religious history of Christmas in a class project
Anti-Christian Hostility Driving 'War on Christmas,' Attorney Says
By Jim Brown
December 7, 2005
(AgapePress) - A Christian attorney says recent acts of censorship indicate Christmas is under attack in public schools across the United States.
One Ohio high school principal, for example, recently renamed the school's Christmas tree and concert a "holiday tree" and a "holiday concert." Similarly, a Missouri school superintendent informed fine arts teachers in his district that an upcoming winter assembly may not include "direct references to Christmas or the birth of Jesus," and a Wisconsin school district has banned all Christian Christmas songs.
Such phenomena are occurring not only in primary and secondary public schools, but also at the college level. Controversy recently erupted at Auburn University when the student government association re-dubbed its Christmas tree a "holiday tree."
Steve Crampton
Steve Crampton, chief counsel with the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, takes issue with those who argue there is no "war against Christmas" going on. "They are flat wrong," he says, "and to miss what is happening in our public schools and in the public square -- even in our so-called places of public accommodation, such as the department stores during the Christmas season -- is to be completely blind to the culture war that's raging around us."
The hostility against Christianity that Crampton asserts has "been under the surface for years" has finally boiled over, he contends, and secularists are making no bones about their attempts to blot out all religious meaning associated with the holiday. He feels such acts of censorship indicate that public school officials have run amok with hypocrisy.
"When a public entity such as these high schools takes the extreme position that we can't even use the name 'Christmas,' let alone 'Jesus Christ,' how else can you describe it other than censorship?" the pro-family attorney asks. He says these public education officials' attempt to strip every vestige of Christian faith from the holiday represents "a running away, not only from our own history and tradition but from the very principles of tolerance that they are espousing on the other side of their mouth."
Crampton says the rising incidence of Christmas censorship is an indication that the culture war continues to rage (See related commentary). He suggests that anyone who denies this fact is either blind to an ever-mounting body of evidence or has been lulled into a false sense of complacency.
If any of you dont think theres a war going on here between Christains and secularists I dont knw what planet your living on. It all started when they took Christ out of Christmas. I never have and never will wish anyone a merry X-mas. Disgusting.
Samurai Waki
12-14-2005, 09:03
I'm not even Christian and still say "Merry Christmas". Is the world going mad?!?
Christmas doesn't necessarily mean "Christian" anymore. That's an obsolete association. :san_lipsrsealed:
Ja'chyra
12-14-2005, 09:33
The line is "I'm being repressed", actually. Listen very closely; you can hear the difference.
As much as I don't like the 'holiday' in question, I can deal with having to look away from the decorations. We don't have the problem with taking down decorations in Canada to the extent that America does, but it does work the other way. People will spell out 'JESUS LOVES YOU' in little blinking lights on their houses, but I'm prohibited by law to write 'SOD OFF'.
So buy the house next door and write, "But I don't" :san_grin:
Lemurmania
A lot of the reported "war" is distorted beyond fact. Some of it is straight-up invented. Bill O'Reilly (Fox News) announced that a town in Michigan was outlawing the wearing of green and red. He then sputtered on about how a big, tough guy like him would dress from head to toe in X-mas colors to show that town who's boss. When somebody bothered to call the town, the whole thing turned out to be a lie. But who really cares about the facts?
I think BBC is doing a documentary on how so many news reports are distorted beyond all recognition in order to make it vaguely interesting, including Christmas related stories.
strike for the south down here its still merry christmas...commies
Yeehaa :san_laugh:
• In Illinois, state government workers were forbidden from saying the words “Merry Christmas” while at work
What, and they complied? I'm a civil servant in the UK, yes I know I'm a lazy B, and I can imaginewhat the response would be here, the second word would be "Off".
p.s. Don't you hate people who quote whole swathes of others posts in their own?
Hahaha, most of that "official" crap(newspapers and so on) here sounds quite funny.
I don´t care wether it´s true or not in the US, but here in germany we don´t bother about forbidding Christmas, in fact, many people celebrate Christmas with their families, even atheists! The christmas lights are everywhere in the "shopping zones" of cities and they can go on your nerves if you let them, but IMO they just need lots of snow to look nice.:san_grin:
I myself have no Christmas decoration in my appartment, I rather spare my money for other things.:san_wink:
Now, on forbidding to say this and that at work I find really stupid, if someone feels opposed if I say something, he should come to me and discuss it. If he is too much a pussy to do so, every Darwininst should agree that he needs to die out anyway, because he is too weak to survive!:san_tongue:
Rodion Romanovich
12-14-2005, 12:55
In Illinois, state government workers were forbidden from saying the words “Merry Christmas” while at work
Haha that made me laugh :san_laugh:
If any of you dont think theres a war going on here between Christains and secularists I dont knw what planet your living on. It all started when they took Christ out of Christmas. I never have and never will wish anyone a merry X-mas. Disgusting.
Aha, so that's where the ugly word X-mas comes from... So they're actually serious about it :san_grin: I don't know whether to cry our laugh...
I don't think anyone denies that many of the Christmas traditions are inspired by pagan and non-religious old traditions, and that many atheists celebrate Christmas (but the main idea of Christmas in the Christian interpretation and celebration of it is to celebrate the birth of Christ). But I don't understand why on earth they'd remove the word Christ from Christmas, as if it would be offensive or something?!!
War on terrorism, war on Christmas, war on french fries, war on war, what next? Btw, when speaking of odd laws, it's interesting to see what the typical sentence given to someone breaking that law would be. So, has anyone got prison for saying "Christmas" yet?
KukriKhan
12-14-2005, 13:37
Plenty of end-of-year holiday stamps available still, http://shop.usps.com/cgi-bin/vsbv/postal_store_non_ssl/display_products/productCategory.jsp?prodCat=/Stamps+by+Subject/Holiday
but I don't recommend buying more than you'll actually use in the next 3 weeks...rates go up to $0.39 for First Class on January 8th, so you'll need a 2-cent make-up stamp for any left-overs.
No one has ever told me I can't say "Merry Christmas", "Joyous Kwanzaa", "Happy Eid", or "Happy Hanukkah" , or even "Super Solstice, Dude!" to anybody, postal patron or not.
It all started when they took Christ out of Christmas. I never have and never will wish anyone a merry X-mas. Disgusting.
Ahh, when I was but a lad back in the old country (Montreal), I was told the X was just shorthand for the cross symbol.
You're saying it denotes... nothingness.
Makes sense I guess.
It's not like Christians go over to every jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist, and atheist family and tell them that they 'have to celebrate it'.They should be. Forced conversion never hurt anyone, it was the hot irons that did that.
Sorry to kill off the indignation, Xmas has nothing to secularism. It comes from Greek, Xristos (Christos) is Greek for Christ, and in the Orthodox church X has long been used as a symbol for Christ. Xmas has been in use since the 16th C.
Yet another reason Greek and Latin should never have been removed from national compulsory curriculums.
Rodion Romanovich
12-14-2005, 14:08
@lugh: ah, the XP / chi-rho, of course! Thanks for clearing that up! But still it's my opinion that writing X-mas doesn't look good in English, where X or XXX usually means there's some letters you wanted to hide ~:)
Prodigal
12-14-2005, 14:09
Well bahh-bloody-humbug to the lot of you, yet again someones already made my point :san_undecided:
Nevermind though.
Eat, drink, be merry, & don't let the ban 'em all brigades get you down! 25th of Dec. can't be all bad, pagans can be happy, so can the christians, the agnostics can think about it, & the atheists can stuff themselves & drink to much too! Course this leaves out a whole bunch of others, but you can't please everyone all the time.
~:snowman:
PS - What is egg-nog, & why would anyone want to drink it?
KukriKhan
12-14-2005, 14:18
PS - What is egg-nog, & why would anyone want to drink it?
For the alcohol content, o'course
http://www.indepthinfo.com/eggnog/recipesa.shtml
Ja'chyra
12-14-2005, 14:31
Sorry to kill off the indignation, Xmas has nothing to secularism. It comes from Greek, Xristos (Christos) is Greek for Christ, and in the Orthodox church X has long been used as a symbol for Christ. Xmas has been in use since the 16th C.
Yet another reason Greek and Latin should never have been removed from national compulsory curriculums.
LOL, classic :san_laugh:
Prodigal
12-14-2005, 14:55
For the alcohol content, o'course
http://www.indepthinfo.com/eggnog/recipesa.shtml
That's what I was afraid of, so we're talking a cold alcoholic custard type thing :san_shocked:
Americans awake! Port, Brandy, Whisky, Rum none of them taste great, but it has to be better than adding sugar & raw eggs to them! Egg-nog's a conspiracy dreamed up by chicken farmers to pay you back for buying turkeys :san_lipsrsealed:
Yeah, it doesn't look pretty, but that's a whole other arguement. Having X in the English language was a mistake from when Latin was being phased out as an academic language IIRC. Sometime on either side of the 15th c I think.
The only Xmas drink worth mentioning is port and brandy doubled. If you thought they were bad alone, together you're guaranteed heart palpitations, at the very least!:san_laugh:
Tribesman
12-14-2005, 15:25
Hot port and brandy Lugh , it not just for Christmas , its for any morning when you need the cure .~:cheers:
Seamus Fermanagh
12-14-2005, 15:33
Hot port and brandy Lugh , it not just for Christmas , its for any morning when you need the cure .~:cheers:
Hear -- hear!! But a simple "drop o' the pure" is the finest cure indeed.:san_grin:
This is EASILY the most relevant (and probably most thoroughly researched) thing our Tribesman has added to the forum this Dec).:san_wink:
Templar Knight
12-14-2005, 16:40
Ahh, when I was but a lad back in the old country (Montreal), I was told the X was just shorthand for the cross symbol.
Thats what I thought :san_smiley:
I try and restrict my intake of heart-problem-inducing things to the holiday season. This way if it kills me, I have something to talk about with Jesus.:san_grin:
Mongoose
12-14-2005, 16:43
Edit: P.S. nice signature Mongoose.
Thanks. Or Is that sarcasm? It's hard to tell over the internet.
I think i should clarify: Decorations are not being removed from private homes, just public park areas, or so i've heard. having said that, i have not seen that happen where i live. Still plenty of mangers in my town....:san_smiley:
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-14-2005, 16:53
no, no I appreciate it you took my "my words in someone else's sig" cherry.
Aw, it's so sweet.
X is greek letter chi. as in chi, rho, iota as a Christian symbol and spelling the first three letters of Christos (transliterated there).
It's all Greek to me
I always thought the X in Xmas was a way to get the young kids excited about the holiday. Santa's reindeer and sleigh replaced with a Ski-doo, and he does Can-Cans and 1080's as he jumps from rooftop to rooftop. :san_grin:
I don't think we need to worry about the "war" on Christmas. Apparently the country will fall into a depression of epic proportions if Christmas goes away, so I can't see the politicos (and their corporate backers) letting go of it. I will, however, wholeheartedly support anyone who pushes for criminal proceeding against people who decorate for Christmas/holidays/whatever before Thanksgiving. Those people deserve the chair.:san_angry:
Prodigal
12-14-2005, 17:01
Decorations are not being removed from private homes, just public park areas, or so i've heard. having said that, i have not seen that happen where i live. Still plenty of mangers in my town....:san_smiley:
Get on the bandwagon man! Wear something yellow & reflective then take whatever decorations you want, anyone asks say your acting on behalf of the local council... (Public Service announcement - Don't try this near your own home)
Heh I dont see the big, in my city there are alot of 'ethnic minorities' (to the extent they are more the 'ethnic majorities') so the city center is packed with Diwali lights at that time of the year as well as Christmas right now. I think as long as everyone is allowed to put up lights and stuff for their festivals then it's fine. The only problem is if somebody says 'no you may not celebrate.' to one religion but allows others to hand lights and such.
master of the puppets
12-14-2005, 17:06
I will, however, wholeheartedly support anyone who pushes for criminal proceeding against people who decorate for Christmas/holidays/whatever before Thanksgiving. Those people deserve the chair.:san_angry:
ELP! ELP! I"M BEING REPRESSED!
really i belive let whoever wants to celebrate celebrate, people who support this don't want freedom of religion, they want to destroy religion. i at the very moment have no god, yet still i love the season cause people seem happier, though all the marketing pisses my off, so i say let religion be free to roam the streets decorating at will and (in the case of all the religios nutjobs) hold mass in the center of the nearest 4 way intersection.
also, so if what you say is true abot jebus being repressented by an X (XXX), if someone signs with an X there callin themselves jesus?
Reverend Joe
12-14-2005, 17:19
Port, Brandy, Whisky, Rum none of them taste great
:stunned: BLASPHEMER!!! :furious3:
Seriously, I have no comment on this entire beastly issue. There is a war going on- I will admit that- but it is a war of ****-slinging and words, and I loathe both sides to an intense degree. Every time I see christian fundamentalists screaming about a false repression, or PC nutjobs who insist upon the neutralisation of religion out of an imagined fear of someone taking offense (usually one of their number), I feel a savage urge to beat the hell out of them, to try and knock some sense into them via severe head trauma. There is no real threat, there is no real war, just a bunch of bull****, and I feel sorry for the next person who tries to convince me otherwise; that man may be very intellegent, but he is a blind fool.
If we want to start a war, why not start it on Christmas marketing? Every year this **** gets worse, and noone does anything except let it spiral out of control like some sort of superbowl halftime show, loaded on enough PCP to kill a herd of bull-elephants and given a christmas theme. As soon as Halloween is over, there it is, jumping up and down and screaming through your TV, your radio, your internet, anywhere you drive- "HAPPY HOLIDAYS! MERRY CHRISTMAS! BUY BUY BUY! BUY, YOU ROTTEN ****ER- GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY! AND HAVE A MARRY GODDAMN CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY ****ING HOLIDAYS!!!" Now, why can't we work to eliminate that?
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 17:21
That's what I was afraid of, so we're talking a cold alcoholic custard type thing
No we are not. Alcohol is not present in most egg nog. Any kid can by it in the store. People add alcohol to it.
master of the puppets
12-14-2005, 17:32
:stunned: BLASPHEMER!!! :furious3:
Seriously, I have no comment on this entire beastly issue. There is a war going on- I will admit that- but it is a war of ****-slinging and words, and I loathe both sides to an intense degree. Every time I see christian fundamentalists screaming about a false repression, or PC nutjobs who insist upon the neutralisation of religion out of an imagined fear of someone taking offense (usually one of their number), I feel a savage urge to beat the hell out of them, to try and knock some sense into them via severe head trauma. There is no real threat, there is no real war, just a bunch of bull****, and I feel sorry for the next person who tries to convince me otherwise; that man may be very intellegent, but he is a blind fool.
If we want to start a war, why not start it on Christmas marketing? Every year this **** gets worse, and noone does anything except let it spiral out of control like some sort of superbowl halftime show, loaded on enough PCP to kill a herd of bull-elephants and given a christmas theme. As soon as Halloween is over, there it is, jumping up and down and screaming through your TV, your radio, your internet, anywhere you drive- "HAPPY HOLIDAYS! MERRY CHRISTMAS! BUY BUY BUY! BUY, YOU ROTTEN ****ER- GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY! AND HAVE A MARRY GODDAMN CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY ****ING HOLIDAYS!!!" Now, why can't we work to eliminate that?
you...are my hero:bow: .
your absolutely correct, celebrate whatever you want and NUKE WALMART.
Duke Malcolm
12-14-2005, 17:39
Take away Christmas...? I shall gather my comrades to march to the City Square and storm the City Chambers if they considered anything such thing here...
English assassin
12-14-2005, 17:57
As it happens I alternately worship Jupiter and Thor (can't be too careful with these thunder gods) and I am FURIOUS that these Jonny come lately christian types have hijacked Saturnalia and Yule with their namby pamby peace and love baby festival thing. (I mean, a baby !!! Can a baby hurl thunderbolts? I think not)
Why, last year the local council wouldn't even let me roast a goat and have an orgy with 20 syrian slave girls, citing some nonsense about planning controls.
I'm telling you, the real religious meaning has gone out of these festivals.
Reverend Joe
12-14-2005, 18:17
As it happens I alternately worship Jupiter and Thor (can't be too careful with these thunder gods) and I am FURIOUS that these Jonny come lately christian types have hijacked Saturnalia and Yule with their namby pamby peace and love baby festival thing. (I mean, a baby !!! Can a baby hurl thunderbolts? I think not)
Why, last year the local council wouldn't even let me roast a goat and have an orgy with 20 syrian slave girls, citing some nonsense about planning controls.
I'm telling you, the real religious meaning has gone out of these festivals.
And you are my hero! :medievalcheers:
Alexanderofmacedon
12-14-2005, 18:46
They don't really bother me. Sometimes I'll laugh to myself about hard they must have worked to get those lights up, but otherwise I don't really recognize them. mongoose, I'm guessing you are jewish, but what religion are you?
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 18:56
How do christmas decorations bother anyone? I see minorahs (sp ) or the star of David or a muslim crecent and it has no effect on me other than to realise there are many religions out there. Why should it bother people that other people are religous? Let people celebrate what they like in the manner their accustomed to as long as theres no violence or harm done.
Alexanderofmacedon
12-14-2005, 18:58
I agree Gawain!
~:grouphug: ~:grouphug: ~:grouphug:
Ja'chyra
12-14-2005, 19:46
Ban everything, it's bound to offend some ars.....er, someone. :san_lipsrsealed:
Ban everything, it's bound to offend some ars.....er, someone. :san_lipsrsealed:
Great idea!
Sasaki, where did you get that article? Sounds a bit like The Onion, only less believable.
Gawain, if you want to spend a lot of energy and outrage on the "War on Christmas," I guess that's your business. (But exercise and family time might be a better use of your resources.) Also, Gawain, when you're pulling from multiple right-wing screeds, please provide a linky.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 21:04
Gawain, if you want to spend a lot of energy and outrage on the "War on Christmas," I guess that's your business.
Yup when Im not posting here Im out protesting the war on Christmas. In fact I devote all of december to it. Im just saying that those who claim there is no secularist concerted attack not only upon Christmas but christianity in general, then I find it hard to believe we exist in the same world and live but miles apart.
|OCS|Virus
12-14-2005, 21:05
Okay here is a little piece of info to think on, schools can't have christmas light, but for some reason when I go to K-mart I have to walk by those annoying bastards with the bells! Now there is one christmas decoration I could do without! So merry frikin' xmas to all! =D
:san_rolleyes: :san_kiss: :san_laugh: :san_wink: :san_grin: :san_tongue: :san_smiley: :san_shocked: :san_cool: :san_cheesy:
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 21:11
Then shop somewhere else.
Sasaki Kojiro
12-14-2005, 21:14
Sasaki, where did you get that article? Sounds a bit like The Onion, only less believable.
The Onion :san_cheesy:
I don't think there is any evidence of a secularist attack on Christmas. Of a few secularists attacking Christmas, sure.
Reverend Joe
12-14-2005, 21:17
How do christmas decorations bother anyone?
They don't bother me. What bothers me is the marketing involved. It happens at any store you can possibly go to.
I am actually burnt out on Christmas because of all of the advertising.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 21:23
I am actually burnt out on Christmas because of all of the advertising.
The avertising hasnt really anything to do wth christmas but profits. Most people enjoy the lights and decorations. The advertising is another matter and theirs nothing christain about it. I fail to see what this has to do with the topic. So exacly what is it you want removed? What is this offensive "advertising"?
Why, last year the local council wouldn't even let me roast a goat and have an orgy with 20 syrian slave girls, citing some nonsense about planning controls. I don't believe you. Although, had you asked permission, I think it wouldve been the slave girl orgy that would've got you turned down.... Public displays of indecency and slavery are tough sells to most folks, being illegal and whatnot.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 21:24
Originally Posted by English assassin
Why, last year the local council wouldn't even let me roast a goat and have an orgy with 20 syrian slave girls, citing some nonsense about planning controls.
I don't believe you.
Me either.
Reverend Joe
12-14-2005, 21:27
Well, the advertising is really an aside... I went on a rant earlier, and that came up. (It is on page two.)
Reverend Joe
12-14-2005, 21:27
I don't believe you. Although, had you asked permission, I think it wouldve been the slave girl orgy that would've got you turned down.... Public displays of indecency and slavery are tough sells to most folks, being illegal and whatnot.
Maybe he lives in Nevada. ~D
Gawain of Orkeny
12-14-2005, 21:35
Well, the advertising is really an aside... I went on a rant earlier, and that came up. (It is on page two.)
Its pretty funny as you sound like a christain fundementalist in part of that rant where your complaining about the comericization of christmas. Most christains have the same problem with it nowdays. Chritmas is about the birth of Christ and new hope for the world not goinfg out and buying people presents, At least thats the true meaning of christmas thats getting lost in all of this.
I really enjoyed "Polar Express", which I watched recently.
Ho Ho Ho
Mongoose
12-14-2005, 23:02
"mongoose, I'm guessing you are jewish, but what religion are you?"
Not quite sure. probably Atheist, but not the kind that's bothered by decorations...:san_wink:
I agree on the advertising. Though i don't see how others being caught up in the gift giving part should subtract form your enjoyment of the holiday.
master of the puppets
12-14-2005, 23:24
ok, so its settled, lets blow up walmart and Kmart and any other marts we find. oh and 1 more ting, why take santa off coca-cola? i don't belive in him but is still a kind and familiar part of my world, but now the freakin polar bears are invading.
Im just saying that those who claim there is no secularist concerted attack not only upon Christmas but christianity in general, then I find it hard to believe we exist in the same world and live but miles apart.
And here's the extra-funny thing -- I am a Christian, and according to you you aren't. And yet you're the one going on about a "secular attack" on Christmas and Christiantiy. And you don't even have the nerve to take on all of the pagan elements that have been tacked on to Christmas over the centuries. Do you really believe half the stuff you say, G, or is it all for the sake of sounding like an idealogue?
There is no war on Christmas. There's just the usual scrimmage of misguided folks with odd ideas. That's America, folks. Some ideas get tried on for a while, and usually the worst ones get discarded. "War" on Christmas, indeed. Oh, you mean a few townships have gone overboard on the PC wagon and have done stupid things like banning Christmas carols from the school chorus? Well, sounds like a war to me.
Dear lord, you would think the religious right would have something more substantive to get frothy about.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 03:22
And here's the extra-funny thing -- I am a Christian, and according to you you aren't. And yet you're the one going on about a "secular attack" on Christmas and Christiantiy. And you don't even have the nerve to take on all of the pagan elements that have been tacked on to Christmas over the centuries. Do you really believe half the stuff you say, G, or is it all for the sake of sounding like an idealogue?
Do you even bother to read what I post?
What was this I said then
Christmas is about the birth of Christ and new hope for the world not going out and buying people presents, At least thats the true meaning of christmas thats getting lost in all of this
Or how about this
The avertising hasnt really anything to do wth christmas but profits. Most people enjoy the lights and decorations. The advertising is another matter and theirs nothing christain about it
And if your speaking of an idealogue I suggest you look in the mirror. Im no religous fanatic
Proletariat
12-15-2005, 03:23
Lemur's post sums it up for me. I don't understand how people get worked up over this stuff.
Reverend Joe
12-15-2005, 03:24
Oh, go smoke a joint, all of you.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 03:25
Lemur's post sums it up for me. I don't understand how people get worked up over this stuff.
Its censorship and it violates the 1st amendment.
Gawain, you attacked the commercialism of Christmas, that's true, but you must know that most of the symbolism Americans associate with Christmas is pagan, or straight-up invented. That's one of the reasons that various puritanical sects throughout history have banned Christmas. Far more successfully (in their setting) than the ACLU.
Anyway, here's a former Fox News Channel producer ruminating on this made-to-order "war": (Linky.) (http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=10784)
It’s no surprise, of course, that this phony call to arms, this “Christmas (ergo, Christians) Under Attack” hysteria, emanates from the bowels of Fox News Channel. The network is, after all, ground zero in the culture wars that polarize so much of America these days. Make no mistake about it: Fox is on a mission. Its slogans say, “Fair and Balanced” and “We Report, You Decide.” But in the six years that I worked there, what I heard most from Fox management were mission statements – about turning things around, taking news back from the liberals, and giving “middle America” a voice long denied it by the “east coast media elite.”
[snip]
But what really separates Fox from the competition is its unabashed use of religion as a divisive weapon. Common sense -- and common courtesy -- have long dictated that personal religious beliefs be kept out of news reporting unless the story at hand involves religion. But on Fox, it’s not uncommon for an anchor to raise the issue of a guest’s religion, or lack thereof, a’ propos of nothing.
They're selling "us versus them" religious hatred, Gawain. And the way you post, you sure make it sound like you're buying.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 03:50
Gawain, you attacked the commercialism of Christmas, that's true, but you must know that most of the symbolism Americans associate with Christmas is pagan, or straight-up invented
Sure i do. Santa Claus, Christmas trees and the like have nothing to do with a christain christmas.
Anyway, here's a former Fox News Channel producer ruminating on this made-to-order "war": (Linky.)
It’s no surprise, of course, that this phony call to arms, this “Christmas (ergo, Christians) Under Attack” hysteria, emanates from the bowels of Fox News Channel. The network is, after all, ground zero in the culture wars that polarize so much of America these days. Make no mistake about it: Fox is on a mission. Its slogans say, “Fair and Balanced” and “We Report, You Decide.” But in the six years that I worked there, what I heard most from Fox management were mission statements – about turning things around, taking news back from the liberals, and giving “middle America” a voice long denied it by the “east coast media elite.”
[snip]
But what really separates Fox from the competition is its unabashed use of religion as a divisive weapon. Common sense -- and common courtesy -- have long dictated that personal religious beliefs be kept out of news reporting unless the story at hand involves religion. But on Fox, it’s not uncommon for an anchor to raise the issue of a guest’s religion, or lack thereof, a’ propos of nothing.
Now this guy wouldnt have an axe to grind would he?
They're selling "us versus them" religious hatred, Gawain. And the way you post, you sure make it sound like you're buying.
I go more by what I read here and yes it is an us versus them thing. I think hatred is a bit too strong a word here though my feelings on the ACLU approach that emotion.
Hey whats up with all the stinking christmas decorations aroud here lately? Or are these holiday decorations?
Reverend Joe
12-15-2005, 03:53
Careful with that axe, Gawain...
Evil_Maniac From Mars
12-15-2005, 03:57
Help! Help! I'm having a cardiac arrest! :san_laugh:
Now this guy wouldnt have an axe to grind would he?
If you'd bothered to read the link, you'd know he was a she, and that she worked as a producer at Fox for years. Six years, I believe. She's allowed to have an opinion, and a rather more empirically informed one than your own.
I go more by what I read here and yes it is an us versus them thing.
Wow. Ecce homo.
And let's ignore the fact that "holiday" has an explicitly religious meaning:
Holiday: O.E. haligdæg, from halig "holy" + dæg "day;" in 14c. meaning both "religious festival" and "day of recreation."
War Update:
Apparently this whole silliness about the War on Christmas has something to do with promoting a Fox acnhor's book, as well. Amazing what a little Google searching will turn up: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/fox-news-xmas-war-snore-_b_11943.html)
Fox News Xmas War Snore: Nobody's Buying It
John Gibson's book publisher must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven. The Fox News anchor, out peddling The War on Christmas, not only got to plug the book on his weekday program, The Big Show, but Fox News producers generously booked Gibson on an array of other shows, pounding the idea that liberal secularists were out to kill Christmas.
According to Media Matters for America's tally, Fox News has aired nearly 60 separate segments on the Christ-hating craze this season. For Gibson's publisher it's a dream come true; non-stop televised publicity that reaches the target audience of cranky conservatives who have shown again and again their eager willingness to send partisan books rocketing up the best-sellers list. Talk about sitting back and counting the money, right?
Wrong. Despite an avalanche of mentions on Fox News, The War on Christmas continues to do disappointing business. It's nowhere near breaking through the New York Times best-seller's list. It's not even included on USA Today's expanded list of the top 150 best selling books. In fact, according to Amazon.com's sales rankings, The War on Christmas is stuck in the 200's; No. 286 to be specific. The book has sold approximately 30,000 copies since hitting book store shelves nearly two months ago. That'd be decent business for a first-time non-fiction writer. But for a Fox News anchor whose employer won't stop plugging the title, that sales total is middling at best, which only confirms how manufactured Fox News' crusade is -- even its loyal, Red State viewers aren't buying it.
UPDATE: War's woes continue. Today the book slides down to No. 364 at Amazon. (Thanks hapkidokid .)
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 04:27
If you'd bothered to read the link, you'd know he was a she, and that she worked as a producer at Fox for years. Six years, I believe. She's allowed to have an opinion, and a rather more empirically informed one than your own.
I did but didnt notice it was a her. Can you tell me why she no longer works there?
And let's ignore the fact that "holiday" has an explicitly religious meaning:
Yes and that will have to be the next thing to go. We cant go around celibrating Holy days any longer now can we?
According to Media Matters for America's tally
Well theres a leftwing organization of there ever was one.
Ill give you its not really a war on christmas. Its more of a slow death. They kill it off a little more each year.
Can you tell me why she no longer works there?
So by your reasoning, ex-employees of a managerial position are inherently untrustworthy, because they either left or were fired, and are therefore untrustworthy? Couldn't you put a little more effort into Swift Boating somebody whose gender you hadn't noticed?
Well theres a leftwing organization of there ever was one.
Yes, I certainly wouldn't trust them to count the number of segments aired by a news channel. I mean, their special liberal glasses would cloud over any ability to count. Everybody knows that liberalism is synonomous with illiteracy and innumeracy.
Jumpin' Jehosephat, G, can you do anything besides mud-sling against sources, even for the most innocuous facts? Are you capable of responding in a substantive way?
Ill give you its not really a war on christmas. Its more of a slow death. They kill it off a little more each year.
Then what's the point of the hysterial rhetoric? What's the point of the Fox News heavy breathing? Are you willing to concede that this entire "war" business is nothing more than a flavorful hunk of red meat for the red voters?
They kill it off a little more each year.
Why does it matter to you? Good riddance, I say.
Soulforged
12-15-2005, 05:06
It's funny how much "freedom of speech" appears to be a relative subject for certain people...IT'S ABSOLUTE, even if you like it or not.
m52nickerson
12-15-2005, 05:55
The sick part of this is that in the future I can see my son getting in trouble in school because he told someone merry christmas. I can also see my self raising hell about it. I never thought I would think about sending a child to a private school, until now.
A few years ago I was working at a Inn over nights. There was a Rabbi how would get in late at night and sit and talk with me before going to bed. Around the holidays he wished me a merry christmas, because he knew I was catholic. Now if someone from a different faith can wish me a merry chistmas what the hell is wrong with the rest of the US. Would I have been insulted if he wished me a happy hanunkkah? NO! Why would I? Its a nice gesture, not an attack on your beliefs. All these people who don't what chistmas or other religous holiday stuff around were most likely spoiled little brats that one christmas got coal in there stockings because there parents finally grew a pair and put there foot down. They need to go out a buy them selfs the train set they didn't get and leave the rest of us the hell alone!
Samurai Waki
12-15-2005, 08:24
Actually, the older I get, the less Christmas seems to be about the presents. sure they're a nice gesture, but I just enjoy other people's company. I'll still celebrate Christmas until the day I die, even if I am agnostic. Theres no harm in it. Unless the Soviets really did win the Cold War!:san_laugh:
Prodigal
12-15-2005, 08:52
:stunned: BLASPHEMER!!! :furious3:
Seriously, I have no comment on this entire beastly issue. There is a war going on- I will admit that- but it is a war of ****-slinging and words, and I loathe both sides to an intense degree. Every time I see christian fundamentalists screaming about a false repression, or PC nutjobs who insist upon the neutralisation of religion out of an imagined fear of someone taking offense (usually one of their number), I feel a savage urge to beat the hell out of them, to try and knock some sense into them via severe head trauma. There is no real threat, there is no real war, just a bunch of bull****, and I feel sorry for the next person who tries to convince me otherwise; that man may be very intellegent, but he is a blind fool.
If we want to start a war, why not start it on Christmas marketing? Every year this **** gets worse, and noone does anything except let it spiral out of control like some sort of superbowl halftime show, loaded on enough PCP to kill a herd of bull-elephants and given a christmas theme. As soon as Halloween is over, there it is, jumping up and down and screaming through your TV, your radio, your internet, anywhere you drive- "HAPPY HOLIDAYS! MERRY CHRISTMAS! BUY BUY BUY! BUY, YOU ROTTEN ****ER- GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY! AND HAVE A MARRY GODDAMN CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY ****ING HOLIDAYS!!!" Now, why can't we work to eliminate that?
Ok Port, & brandy do taste good after the first glass, I still can't get used to single malts though, (I have tried...Alot).
Does that help?
Oh & Merry Christmas from all here at SuperSaverSantaLand :san_cheesy:
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-15-2005, 15:10
EA: almost got me thinking about converting.
Questions:
1. Are Syrian slave girls available to everybody or just thunder god worshippers?
1a. Are they all shaven (everywhere)?
1b. Are they greased up?
1c. Are they nubile?
2. Roast goat, is this a must or can you have a roast lamb instead?
2a. What are pagan condiment selections like for this celebration?
3. Do I have to become a hippy?
Byzantine Mercenary
12-15-2005, 15:29
war on christmas, sounds like another 'Political Correctness gone mad' story, christmas is more of a national holiday than a religious one now, most of the cards decorations etc don't even show religious figures, its all cartoon reigndeer and holly.
Its interesting but you often find that the people who try and implement such PC measures don't actually listen to the people who they think will be offended, who usually don't mind.
English assassin
12-15-2005, 17:13
EA: almost got me thinking about converting.
Questions:
1. Are Syrian slave girls available to everybody or just thunder god worshippers?
1a. Are they all shaven (everywhere)?
1b. Are they greased up?
1c. Are they nubile?
2. Roast goat, is this a must or can you have a roast lamb instead?
2a. What are pagan condiment selections like for this celebration?
3. Do I have to become a hippy?
1 They are available at all good slave markets. They AREN'T cheap but they ARE worth it.
1a, usually, 1b naturally (dunno why they call it extra virgin oil though) 1c you bet.
2 Roast goat is traditional, although you may roast any animal your neighbour owns, provide you have killed him and stolen it. Condiments= beer
3 Absolutely not. Whoever saw a hippy with a thunderbolt? You are thinking of those fertility deities.
master of the puppets
12-15-2005, 17:27
can i join, i worship Saturn, Tyr, Set, and Baal as best i can.:san_laugh:
i don't know why people get worked up about holidays, even religions, if anything i'd call this time of year simply JOY cause everyone is happy unless they have some stupid BS like dis going on.
master of the puppets
12-15-2005, 17:32
Oh and 1 more thing, has anyone bin religiously repressed in there town as of yet? if not then its not that big an issue, if so then let this be a full flame war.
Weebeast
12-15-2005, 18:26
Decorations/ celebrations didn't bother me at all when I worshipped a god, still now not bothering me at all. It's just another day off to have fun and get together. It's in the first amendment. You should not stop people from saying "merry christmas." It doesn't convert you to christianity when you greet back.
However, there's a time when muslims do "takbir" (sayings) all night long in the end of ramadhan and that could bother some people particulary of other religions as they're sleeping or whatever. Not that I'm singling Islam out but I don't know if there's any noisy religions out there. Do muslims in other part of the world say takbir or is it just Indonesian thing?
Adrian II
12-15-2005, 18:30
Not that I'm singling Islam out but I don't know if there's any noisy religions out there.Religions are surprisingly noisy with their church bells and temple gongs and processions and public prayer sessions. Never a dull moment in the face of eternal grace, I suppose.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 18:40
However, there's a time when muslims do "takbir" (sayings) all night long in the end of ramadhan and that could bother some people particulary of other religions as they're sleeping or whatever. Not that I'm singling Islam out but I don't know if there's any noisy religions out there. Do muslims in other part of the world say takbir or is it just Indonesian thing?
How about when you go into a gas station and your wondering where the hell is the attendant. Then you look in the station itself and the dudes down on his knees facing Mecca and bowing. Does this religous expression in public bother you?
Adrian II
12-15-2005, 18:54
How about when you go into a gas station and your wondering where the hell is the attendant. Then you look in the station itself and the dudes down on his knees facing Mecca and bowing. Does this religous expression in public bother you?Depends on what's in the till.
Weebeast
12-15-2005, 19:39
How about when you go into a gas station and your wondering where the hell is the attendant. Then you look in the station itself and the dudes down on his knees facing Mecca and bowing. Does this religous expression in public bother you?
Find another station or just wait. You wanna complain to the manager then it's your choice. If that guy is the manager then you're unlucky lol. First of all, it takes only 3-5 minutes (depending how messed up his/her life is). Mostly, people pray longer when they're in trouble but it's another discussion. Secondly, a muslim can always do that anytime when time permits. A muslim doesn't have to bow down as soon as he/she hears the call. It's mentioned in the book. Ask any muslim here, Mouzaphere or someone else who is more likely type more about it. Worshipping Allah should not be a problem for the job or whatever.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 20:00
Find another station or just wait
Thats ny point. The fact that I witness the guy praying dosent bother me in the least. Its just that I have to wait. How can anyone be insulted or bothered by someone wishing them a merry christmas.
A particularly funny take on this bogus "war": (http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2005_12_11_dish_archive.html#113467314663122983)
A NOTE ON CHRISTMAS: I've just written a column on the Christmas wars. I'm as irritated as anyone by the p.c. nonsense of calling Christmas trees "holiday trees" and the like. But it does strike me as overkill that there's a "war on Christmas," as O'Reilly and Gibson have it. One particularly weird quote from O'Reilly is the following:
"There's a very secret plan. And it's a plan that nobody's going to tell you, 'Well, we want to diminish Christian philosophy in the U.S.A. because we want X, Y, and Z.' They'll never ever say that. But I'm kind of surprised they went after Christmas because it's such an emotional issue."
The relationship of what we call Christmas to Christianity is a very mixed one. Jesus obviously wasn't born on December 25. That date was arrived at to coincide with the winter solstice. It was early Christianity's smart cooptation of pagan rituals that helped it succeed as a popular faith. Moreover, the only people actually to have banned celebrating Christmas in the past were ... Christians. Some early American Puritans banned it; so did Cromwell in England during his religious dictatorship. Secular societies have a much better record of protecting Christmas than explicitly Christian theocracies. I wonder if O'Reilly has even heard of this history. Or cares.
Proletariat
12-16-2005, 04:25
Once again, Lemur nails it. I'm an atheist but even a heathen like me can tell that if you've genuinely found Christ and accepted him in your heart, getting emotionally distraught over a holiday is akin to Christianity's medieval stupidities.
From what I understand, Jesus basically revamped the Bible by introducing the two golden rules.
1) Love God with all your heart (accept him as Lord), and
2) treat your neighbor the way you'd want to be treated. (refuse to ignore the humanity in others)
If you do those, all the commandments fall in place. If you really think God cares about the sanctity of mass marketing, nativity scenes, and reindeer, you're falling for the same materialism bent of religon that the psychos who murder people over a kicked Koran have.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-16-2005, 04:36
If you really think God cares about the sanctity of mass marketing, nativity scenes, and reindeer, you're falling for the same materialism bent of religon that the psychos who murder people over a kicked Koran have.
He doesnt we do thats the point. Again mass marketing, nativity scenes, and reindeer have in reality nothing to do with christmas. Can you all be so blind. Next you will tell me theres no movement to secularise the US.
Just A Girl
12-16-2005, 04:52
Seems peopole forget christmas is a time for geting allong with each other :)
*Sprinkles some Magic Pixy fairy dust all over the backroom*
Can you all be so blind. Next you will tell me theres no movement to secularise the US.
There's only one way to protect yourself from this sinister movement, G. Think hat. Think tinfoil.
I'll take a shot of pixie dust over here in the corner, thanks. And some tinfoil for the old guy across the bar.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-16-2005, 08:08
There's only one way to protect yourself from this sinister movement, G. Think hat. Think tinfoil.
I'll take a shot of pixie dust over here in the corner, thanks. And some tinfoil for the old guy across the bar.
Well it appears that we do have some blind among us. No one can be so ridiclous as to make such a claim. But Im sure you will prove me wrong again and continue to do so. Your right . The US is still as christain as it was in the 50s nevermind since its founding. Nothings changed. The best way to cover your lies is to accuse those who dissagree that their nuts and nothings going on.
No one can be so ridiclous as to make such a claim.
I am exactly that ridiculous. Are there little groups here and there that want to turn America into a purely secular world? Sure there are. And they're vastly outnumbered by the Christian population, which was last measured at something like 76% of the United States. For every ACLU there's a Heritage Foundation. These things have a way of balancing out.
I'm blind because I refuse to buy into the Fox-manufactured hype about a war on Christianity? Because I won't run in little circles declaring that the sky is falling? Because I don't buy into the us-versus-them rhetoric that seems to turn your crank? And why are you so enamored of the outrage-du-jour way of thinking? Why do you act as though you need division and rancor? What's in it for you, G?
The US is still as christain as it was in the 50s nevermind since its founding. Nothings changed.
Yeah, right, like I'm going to bite at that one. "I've got an impossible to prove or disprove position, and unless you can prove or disprove it, I'm right." Tell you what, G, prove that America is less religious now than in the early Cold War, and then we can get it on. And please try to do it with facts, not Ubercon Blog anecdotes.
The best way to cover your lies is to accuse those who dissagree that their nuts and nothings going on.
Lies? Cool -- that's a solid accusation. Please show me where in this thread I have lied. Please. I'm dying to know.
And don't try to read my mind while you're working on it -- my tinfoil hat will block your mind rays!
Another very funny take on the bogus "war": (http://www.wonkette.com/politics/the-war-on-christmas-mutually-assured-embarrassment-142203.php) [edited to take out two bad words -- can't remember if they're allowed in the Backroom or not]
The War on Christmas: Mutually Assured Embarrassment
The truth is, anytime someone starts talking to you about how Christians are persecuted in the United States, you are -- right then and right there -- talking to a retard. There's just no other way of saying it. And the War on Christmas is an idea akin to a bull**** sandwich, once you've deleted all the "sandwich-like" characteristics, anyway. The word "holiday" is derived from "holy day", Linus Van Pelt is always going to deliver his reading of Luke on national television year after year, and WASH-FM is going to be playing their drive-time five-song manger birth blocks every December until the Sun finally dies.
Even the people who appear to sincerely fighting the so-called War on Christmas are doing so with a healthy dose of ********. Take Reverend Rob Schenck. He's assembled a nativity scene in the front yard of his office, which is across the street from our crumbling Supreme Court. He's done so not out of reasons of faith, but out of cynical political chicanery: if the city makes him take it down, he can scream bloody murder over the War on Christmas. If the city doesn't make him take it down, he can scream bloody murder over courthouses disallowing displays of the Ten Commandments.
Not exactly the sincerest pumpkin patch, in other words.
Face it, the War on Christmas is just like all our other wars -- the people who want to see them waged would do everything in their power to avoid fighting in one. Fight in a war? Isn't that what poor people are for?
If people really want to have an actual War on Christmas, let's dispense with the nativity stunts -- let's get an arena filled with actual lions up and running and get down to it. But be careful what you wish for: if the President was to learn of a mysterious trio of swarthy gentlemen smuggling goods to a newly born child who's destined to grow up to be the leader of a Middle East insurgency, he'd have Colin Powell up at the United Nations portentiously waving around a vial of frankincense. They bomb mangers, don't they?
Gawain of Orkeny
12-16-2005, 09:05
I am exactly that ridiculous. Are there little groups here and there that want to turn America into a purely secular world? Sure there are. And they're vastly outnumbered by the Christian population, which was last measured at something like 76% of the United States. For every ACLU there's a Heritage Foundation. These things have a way of balancing out.
Its more like 85% but it udsed to be higher and christains just aint what they used to be here anymore. Most Im afraid are like me. There not balancing out. Slowly but surely the secualrists are making progress. Surely you cant deny that.
I'm blind because I refuse to buy into the Fox-manufactured hype about a war on Christianity?
I already gave you the war crap was just that. Its being fought very quitely and slowly. You guys arent so stupid as to go for the whole ball of wax at once.
Adrian II
12-16-2005, 09:13
Its more like 85% but it udsed to be higher and christains just aint what they used to be here anymore.Maybe that is the real issue here: a lack of self-confidence in American Christians because they know they live in the wrong century, their creed won't stand up to its challenges and their numbers will fall no matter what. Over Christmas they want to withdraw into their little make-believe cocoon.
Alas, prayer can not stop wheel of time! :chinese:
Maybe that is the real issue here: a lack of self-confidence in American Christians because they know they live in the wrong century, their creed won't stand up to its challenges and their numbers will fall no matter what. Over Christmas they want to withdraw into their little make-believe cocoon.
Alas, prayer can not stop wheel of time! :chinese:While percentages of self-identified Christians and church attendance are slipping, we can take some heart in the fact that we're faring many times better than the godless Euros. It'll be decades before we get near those levels of apathy and moral relativism. :san_tongue:
Gawain of Orkeny
12-16-2005, 09:22
Maybe that is the real issue here: a lack of self-confidence in American Christians because they know they live in the wrong century, their creed won't stand up to its challenges and their numbers will fall no matter what. Over Christmas they want to withdraw into their little make-believe cocoon
Nope its more like many of them are tired of organised religion and keep their christianity as a private matter. I mean listen to Lem. If you spend anytime on these boards you see a never ending attack on christainty yet he claims theres no suchthing and you blame the christains.
Adrian II
12-16-2005, 10:21
While percentages of self-identified Christians and church attendance are slipping, we can take some heart in the fact that we're faring many times better than the godless Euros. It'll be decades before we get near those levels of apathy and moral relativism. :san_tongue:That's my boy! :san_laugh:
Just A Girl
12-16-2005, 10:22
Christians do get attacked,
So do other religions. Not 1 religion is attacked more than the other, Obviously there are some exeptions....
Perhaps youd like to be Jewish about 60-65 years ago?
Once we get death camps for christians then you can say that theres a war on christianity,
Anything els is just the usually religion vs religion Bull,
I believe 1 thing you believe another so lets argue,
Ahh
Isnt religion wonderful.
Lets persecute the Pagans!
"I found Spell checker for this post But it didnt tell me how to spell exeption, I guess its an exeption in its self!"
Its more like 85% but it udsed to be higher and christains just aint what they used to be here anymore. Most Im afraid are like me. There not balancing out. Slowly but surely the secualrists are making progress. Surely you cant deny that.
That´s not a result of a "war" on religion as much as it is a result of simple evolution of societies.....if you look at history you´ll see that as people live and learn more about the world that surrounds them superstition folclore tend to get left by the road side.....I don´t know how you expect Christianity to be somehow imune to this effect contrary to all other religions over history.
Let´s face it.....people in mexico aren´t making sacrifices to some sun god anymore are they?....there is no diference here....sooner of later they all go the way of the dodo ....that is...unless we start to regress or something....but I don´t see that happening....:san_cheesy:
"I found Spell checker for this post But it didnt tell me how to spell exeption, I guess its an exeption in its self!"
You first have to catch the exception... this you do in a try-catch.
like this:
try
{
// some code
}
catch(Exception ex)
{
MessageBox.Show(ex.Message);
}
If the exception is not caught it can not be handled. :san_grin:
Byzantine Mercenary
12-16-2005, 11:44
That´s not a result of a "war" on religion as much as it is a result of simple evolution of societies.....if you look at history you´ll see that as people live and learn more about the world that surrounds them superstition folclore tend to get left by the road side.....I don´t know how you expect Christianity to be somehow imune to this effect contrary to all other religions over history.
Let´s face it.....people in mexico aren´t making sacrifices to some sun god anymore are they?....there is no diference here....sooner of later they all go the way of the dodo ....that is...unless we start to regress or something....but I don´t see that happening....:san_cheesy:
Not nessasaraly, the reason that the mexican religions died down was more to do with the mexican attitude of taking up the god of their conquerors as such a god must of been more powerful then their old gods.
they were doing that for centuries and then when the spanish arived and conqured them they took up their god. Also the spanish did a verry good job of destroying the culture of the indians and converting them with missionarys ect.
Religion as a whole is not dieing down, look at Africa, look at the developments of the muslim world during the middle ages, huge advances in science and technology but no downturn in the popularity of religion.
Old religions dieng out?
what about Judaism how long was that lasted, and Hunduism, Budism, heck even Christianity has lasted 2000 years, no small feat, ive yet to see an example of a religion dieing out just through apathy...
Prodigal
12-16-2005, 13:29
.....people in mexico aren´t making sacrifices to some sun god anymore are they?....
Ok I agree mostly with Byzantine Prince, but I think that rather than the happy mexicans adopting the new god, it should be considered from the point of view that a bunch of dumb mercenary psycho's butchered numbers of them, then wiped out more of them with small pox, and then put a cherry on the cake by importing tonsured little ponces who burnt all their religious books.
And the idea the Spanish did that for some Higher purpose other than tea leafing all their gold is a delusion on a scale only comparable to the belief that hitlers living on a moonbase.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-16-2005, 14:57
Sigurd:
GEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:san_grin:
Adrian II
12-16-2005, 15:58
If you spend anytime on these boards you see a never ending attack on christainty yet he claims theres no suchthing and you blame the christains.I also see frequent attacks by Christians on Western science, freedom of conscience, tolerance and apple pie. Despite all that, I posted a call here this morning to donate to the Salvation Army. We don't slug it out over Charles Darwin. They don't slap the Bible in my face, I give my spare cash exclusively to them and I always make sure they get a good press for all the great work they do. Mutual respect. Sounds like a perfect Christmas deal to me.
master of the puppets
12-16-2005, 16:26
good job, Adrian always the beacon in the pile o idiotic banter. thats basicly what i do i wish um a merry christmas dispite me being athiest and the wish me happy christmas/hannaka/ramadan (once Kwansa?:san_huh:) and since i have read da bible/koran/torah i have respect for each. thats what everyone should do, learn about each religion is school as a class so everyone can klearn the truth and choose there own religion. if i am to go to a religion anytime soon it may be buddhism but i have doubts about my ability to stop wanting, mabey islam they are really accepying and good if you read the koran, only the public has distorted it and i have little faith in muhamed or jesus as profits. still the point is that you should accept there religion, there still human beings (except radicals).
Alexanderofmacedon
12-16-2005, 18:11
Hinduism and Buddism are the way to go in my opinion...
I'm neither, but I am half Indian...to think about it I really don't have a religion...:san_rolleyes:
Prodigal
12-16-2005, 18:14
I also see frequent attacks by Christians on Western science, freedom of conscience, tolerance and apple pie.
Apple pie's had it coming for a looong time now...Crumble pwns it. That said, either ones a damn hard sell in Catalonia.
Hinduism and Buddism are the way to go in my opinion...
Well said!
Hinduism and Buddism are the way to go in my opinion...
Agnostism my friend, agnostism is the way to go.
AntiochusIII
12-17-2005, 01:16
Hinduism and Buddhism aren't such beautiful things to begin with.
I mean, religions are always religions. It doesn't matter if you have an Indian prophet or a Jewish one; or if you sacrifice a goat, a human, or a cow to the Gods, or a God, or whatever...
It's the way the hippies adapted Buddhism into their cult (note the keyword: adapt) that such Oriental religions become cool.
You can see the popularity of Christianity in mass-media Japan taking that way too...pretty funny seeing (apology...) big boobies nuns running around with guns in anime, or may be just an angel or two storming the Earth in anime.
The truth is, Hinduism supports the caste system, the last thing you wish to be under. The social mobility enjoyed, even if theorically, by Western societies (and others) would be removed; something important, by the way. Also, Hinduism has a very, very large amount of sects in it; which many contradict each others' teachings. Not to mention all the superstition within it.
It is a culture, dare I say.
While Buddhism's philosophy certainly suits the taste of some of the more idealistic Westerners, I guarantee you that "philosophy of the Buddha" is not the main thing enjoyed by worshippers nowadays. Dang it, I was a believer once, and since I realized how stupid I was, I became almost Atheist. The modern religion includes the usual superstition and Godly deals. Religions can't do without gods, it seems, and if your prophet professes none, make him one. :san_rolleyes:
This might be considered religion-bashing, but I am speaking what I considers more of facts than of opinions.
Be careful of what you wish for.
The funny thing is, a War on Christmas had long been victorious. Santa is dead. :san_cheesy: Resistance is futile.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-17-2005, 05:57
we Santaists are still strong...
...and you've been naughty.:san_angry:
KukriKhan
12-17-2005, 06:23
One thing's for sure:
I bet mongoose never dreamed his little 'xmas snow on the org' thread-starter would go 5 pages and over 120 responses.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-17-2005, 07:50
Well its hitting home here now. In the town I grew up in the highschool has an award winning choir that enters competions around the country. They gve a christmas concert last night and then decided to go down the block to Walmart and sing Christmas Carols in the parking lot . Do you know what Walmart did? They called the cops on them and had them removed.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-17-2005, 13:03
I think it's time to play slap-a-Walmart-manager
KukriKhan
12-17-2005, 14:48
Is that the Wal-Mart at
161 Centereach Mall
Centereach, NY 11720-2750
(631) 467-4825?
Let's give 'em a call and find out.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
12-17-2005, 15:54
it's not just the blatant lack of Christmassy cheer but the lack of civic pride that sucks with that story. I thought Walmart was meant to be all about the local communities...
P.S. % of Jews I know who have wished my Merry Christmas = 100% (if anybody's interested).
AntiochusIII
12-17-2005, 20:27
You have to blame it on the system, and a few nutjobs. The system is vulnerable to the most absurd of all lawsuits, and the hungry lawyers are ready to make "Merry Christmas" sounds like saying "I have a bomb!" in front of the White House or something...
The judiciary system (our laws, basically) allows charges of "offensiveness" as a possible attack (funny: that, actually, is a detriment to Freedom of Speech. I think I might file a lawsuit about those laws soon :san_rolleyes: ), and the system as a whole put restriction on the entire network just because of a single attack from a single person at a single "Merry Christmas" sign somewhere he or she doesn't like.
For me? I am not a Christian and has been having fun saying "Merry Christmas/Happy Quansah/Happy Hanukkah to everybody lately, and some of them aren't Christians, blacks, or Jews at all. Nobody ever takes any offense.
I think it's time to play slap-a-Walmart-manager
Well, if this (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lising1216,0,4532515.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines) is the story he's talking about, it sounds like WalMart recognizes that the store manager was acting like an idiot (without admitting such) and is trying to make some ammends.
Wal-Mart officials released a statement this week saying the choir's appearance was unscheduled and created a fire code violation. "For their safety and the safety of our customers, we asked them to move," the statement read.
Wal-Mart has offered the school an opportunity for the choir to return at a scheduled time. The store also made an undisclosed donation toward the choir's trip next summer to Austria, where they will be one of three student choirs from the United States to perform at a celebration of the 250th anniversary of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's birth.
I don't know the appropriate codes, but I really don't think 30 people would've put a WalMart store over the occupancy limit though.
Soulforged
12-18-2005, 01:24
Well its hitting home here now. In the town I grew up in the highschool has an award winning choir that enters competions around the country. They gve a christmas concert last night and then decided to go down the block to Walmart and sing Christmas Carols in the parking lot . Do you know what Walmart did? They called the cops on them and had them removed.
Well maybe it's a new step on this modern wars against ideologies...First was paganism, then perhaps anti-nationalism, or even porn, then terrorism and now it's Christmas!! This people are a little to nuts to my taste...:san_rolleyes:
Well, if this (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lising1216,0,4532515.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines) is the story he's talking about, it sounds like WalMart recognizes that the store manager was acting like an idiot (without admitting such) and is trying to make some ammends.
I don't know the appropriate codes, but I really don't think 30 people would've put a WalMart store over the occupancy limit though.
Well, it's possible, especially if they were clogging the entrance.
Gawain of Orkeny
12-18-2005, 02:17
Well, it's possible, especially if they were clogging the entrance.
Yes thats the store and the story. They were in the parking lot not the store. At least thats what my niece whos in the choir claims.
Practically my whole family still lives in that town.
Adrian II
12-18-2005, 23:30
Yes thats the store and the story.Well, so much for your war then. Walmart has given the 'enemy' a donation and invited them to come sing in their shop. Sounds like a cease-fire to me.
I took my kids to centre town Saturday night for a Christmas street party, with actors dressed up as nineteenth century characters, live music, special candy vendors and all sorts of nonsense. We watched two modern bands that had trouble kicking in because of the weather (-1 C, a gale, lots of hail and sleet) and one of them finally gave up. Enter the Salvation Army brass band -- they had no trouble warming up, they were not deterred by the weather at all. No electronics, no bling bling, and they played very well. They got a standing ovation. My kids went to talk to a woman in the band afterwards. As a result of all this my youngest (eight years old) now wants to join the Salvation Army. I dunno, there's just a tiny little snag which is that he, um, he doesn't believe in God... Well, he will make up his own mind by the time he is eighteen.
Just A Girl
12-18-2005, 23:54
I hate choir's,
Kocking on my door then singing at me,
Making me stand there leting all the heat out,
Humbug I tell you!
You haft to pay them to get rid of em,
Lil black-mailer's!
"Its a poor excuse to pick a mans pocket every december 25th"
Gawain of Orkeny
12-19-2005, 01:27
Well, so much for your war then. Walmart has given the 'enemy' a donation and invited them to come sing in their shop. Sounds like a cease-fire to me.
Yeah after the story hit the local paper they needed some kind of damage control. I saw my niece today and they told Walmart keep the money. By the way it was 500 dollars. In other words wooops we foooked up big this time.
I bet mongoose never dreamed his little 'xmas snow on the org' thread-starter would go 5 pages and over 120 responses.
Just goes to show you -- don't mess around with Christmas. Gets people all jumpy.
And when I say "don't mess around," I'm applying it equally to the PC-multiculti let's-never-offend-anyone idiots and the Fox News chickenhawks. They're equally guilty of trying to make something silly out of our pagan/commercial/Christian holy day.
I hate choir's,
Kocking on my door then singing at me,
Making me stand there leting all the heat out,
Humbug I tell you!
You haft to pay them to get rid of em,
Lil black-mailer's!
"Its a poor excuse to pick a mans pocket every december 25th"
Shambles, you are the man.
master of the puppets
12-20-2005, 17:14
i live half a mile from my nearest neighbor (boondocks much?) so if some little religious nuts tried to walk around singing to houses they would all drop dead in the snow drifts after the 3rd or 4th house.
...hmm, now that is an interesting way to lower the population, ok so i'm gonna go see if i can rustle up a couple of emo kids for a choir and send em out into the snow. i'll report of my success later.:san_laugh:
Abokasee
12-21-2005, 20:10
:san_cheesy: ~:snowman: ~;) :bow: ~:cheers: ~:cool: :duel: :duel: ~:grouphug: :hide: :knight: ~;p ~:smoking: ~:smoking: ~:wave: :weirdthread: :coffeenews: ~:idea: :jumping: ~:pissed: ~:( ~:0 :phonecall: ~:pimp: :scastle: :scared: ~:thumb: ~:thumb: :shrug: :eeeek: ~:angry: :fainting: :helloo: :trytofly: :eyebrows: :flybye: :thrasher: :closed: :elephant: :stupido: :gah2: :stupido2:
lets hope it works
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.