Why Hate America?? [Archive]

BHCWarman88

03-04-2006, 19:15

Reenk Roink

03-04-2006, 19:22

We got a lot of foreign aid for Katrina....

LeftEyeNine

03-04-2006, 19:29

Which galaxy is that you are daydreaming, BHCWarman88 ? Maybe you can help me get there as a generous American and so that I can start thinking "Oh why do they hate us?"

Zalmoxis

03-04-2006, 19:30

Strike For The South

03-04-2006, 19:37

Ianofsmeg16

03-04-2006, 19:42

I like to See Contirues HELP Us and Respect us.
Two words...

Great Britain

Rodion Romanovich

03-04-2006, 19:43

"We that are strong ought to bear up the infirmities of the weak, and not please ourselves" - The Bible

Something like that... Nobody would expect a starving, Somalian kid with HIV to help Bill Gates when he's caught a cold, while everybody expects Bill Gates to give at least something to charity such as research against HIV. If you don't want to give, don't give. But those you give help to now and haven't bombed recently will thank you later when/if you would go through a real crisis. The Katrina hurricane, which I assume is the case you're mainly talking about, couldn't have been handled that much better if other countries had helped, I'm afraid. It's your decision if you want to keep giving aid or not.

Reenk Roink

03-04-2006, 19:44

First off, your grammar needs work, try the Spell Check button two buttons right of the Post button. Second, to reply directly to you, I am not one who hates America, but when you say "we Stuck Billions of bucks in depressed nations,and now they writing in News paper of How we are War Mongers.." do you mean Iraq?... because last I checked you stuck billions in your military budget to take over that country. Second, America has often times used the excuse of "But we gave them X million dollars" to avoid helping countries in the present. Other countries expect the strongest country economically to be able to help itself, seeing as how it has millions of others in other cities spread across the nation that could instantly jump to the help of New Orleans, while those who live in small impoverished countries have small populations who all need help. That's why you can let a large country like America deal with its own problems.

I agree with all your points, except for the first one. Why complain about his spelling and grammar? The post was perfectly comprehendable...

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.

The second part is Touche'd...(the first one would be too, but I've seen some uglies around... :tongue2:)

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

03-04-2006, 19:56

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.

Keep telling yourself that.

How about this, Britain is counting down to the time when we will finally be able to say we owe America nothing, because we've paid it all back.

As to New Orleans, well you should have been able to handle it yourselves and you got aid anyway so stop complaining.

BigTex

03-04-2006, 20:03

I personally get fed up regularly with European ignorance. What gets me most is those European singers/actors/antiamerican american actors/politicos who blame the U.S.A. for things like the way Africa is. Quickly forgetting it was European colonialism that fubared that place, and protesting that the U.S.A. should pay the most to help them. To quote many of those Frenchy's who dont want anything to do with the Iraq problem "You broke it you fix it.". I also find it ironic whenever a European protests any U.S. deal that benefits us as Imperialism and Colonialism. Are they some how forgetting that alot of nations held colonies well past WWII :dizzy2: . I think we need to send alot of those protestor's to a chinese re-education camp, ahhhhh slave made clothing is always the best..:oops:

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.
Complete Truthyness right there South.

Ice

03-04-2006, 20:05

Hey, your from Pittsburgh! I just moved from around that area, good city.

The question you asked is pretty loaded. Good luck finding a straight answer.

aw89

03-04-2006, 20:11

I like to See Contirues HELP Us and Respect us. look at Tri Sanka, Famils got wipe out, kids lost their Partents. ok,we help them. but look at NEw Orelans, Kids aslo Lost their Partents, but No One Helps us. you can BS all you what "that what you get for living in a hole" that bascilly what Orelans is,a Hole. but Come on, Tri Sanka Was a Island, and it was always Dirt Poor, so don't compalin.

what you guys think??

Well, people like you are a reason, people that think that because people are against the US they must be evil and not know how great you are.

Oh yes, and its "Sri Lanka" (If i get what you are talking about, i dont get anything about a place called "Tri Sanka")

Pannonian

03-04-2006, 20:11

Keep telling yourself that.

How about this, Britain is counting down to the time when we will finally be able to say we owe America nothing, because we've paid it all back.

WW2 tech-sharing, meant to be reciprocal but in practice entirely one-way. Technology thus "shared" deemed to be worth several times what Britain received in Marshall aid, lend lease and other loans combined. British statesmen and diplomats of the time, from Keynes to Churchill, weren't impressed. In similar incidents, Eden called the terms for the 50 destroyers "unfriendly negotiations", while Keynes walked out of the lend-lease talks, declaring he wasn't going to "sign over the British empire".

Britain is grateful to America for her help in WW2, but by heck we paid through the nose for it.

LeftEyeNine

03-04-2006, 20:15

SFTS said it all. This thread is fruitless from now on. My man the GMoAtT, Hoorrraaay !!!

Duke Malcolm

03-04-2006, 20:33

you know, I hate going on RTW or watching the News and seeing People Dissing RTW and Protestng about us.
Might I enquire as to the meaning of "Dissing"?

I agree with all your points, except for the first one. Why complain about his spelling and grammar? The post was perfectly comprehendable...
I had great difficulty in extrapolating the points of some of the post, and only was sure of it after several readings...

I personally get fed up regularly with European ignorance. What gets me most is those European singers/actors/antiamerican american actors/politicos who blame the U.S.A. for things like the way Africa is. Quickly forgetting it was European colonialism that fubared that place, and protesting that the U.S.A. should pay the most to help them. To quote many of those Frenchy's who dont want anything to do with the Iraq problem "You broke it you fix it.". I also find it ironic whenever a European protests any U.S. deal that benefits us as Imperialism and Colonialism. Are they some how forgetting that alot of nations held colonies well past WWII :dizzy2: . I think we need to send alot of those protestor's to a chinese re-education camp, ahhhhh slave made clothing is always the best..:oops:.
I personally get fed up when ignorant folks say European colonialism is to blame for the way Africa is. It has more to do with the speed at which independence was attained, due to pressure put on the European governments by the USA amongst others, and also to do with the fact the governments have become largely corrupt and distrustful affairs...

As for the "You broke it, you fix it", that seems perfectly true. Why should those countries who did not want to and did not depose the legitimate (if somewhat cruel) leader of a nation help in repairing that nation? It is the duty of those countries who removed the original government, "broke" it, to ensure the successive government is run fairly and that there is better civil order, "fix" it.

You should perhaps research better the European colonial empires...

BigTex

03-04-2006, 21:03

to do with the speed at which independence was attained, due to pressure put on the European governments by the USA amongst others, and also to do with the fact the governments have become largely corrupt and distrustful affairs...
Europe pulled out to fast and you still find a way to blame the U.S.A. Instead of mention the constant civil rights abuses that went on down there and the medical experiments on humans (Oral polio vaccine anyone?) you just flatly blame the U.S. as bullying Europe out.
We should also forget how European colonialism helped spur on the development of radical Islam in the middle east. But hey its popular right now to blame the U.S.A. for everything, so sling it on.

Red Peasant

03-04-2006, 21:11

WW2 tech-sharing, meant to be reciprocal but in practice entirely one-way. Technology thus "shared" deemed to be worth several times what Britain received in Marshall aid, lend lease and other loans combined. British statesmen and diplomats of the time, from Keynes to Churchill, weren't impressed. In similar incidents, Eden called the terms for the 50 destroyers "unfriendly negotiations", while Keynes walked out of the lend-lease talks, declaring he wasn't going to "sign over the British empire".

Britain is grateful to America for her help in WW2, but by heck we paid through the nose for it.

So true, and probably still paying.

BHCWarman88

03-04-2006, 21:11

I personally get fed up regularly with European ignorance. What gets me most is those European singers/actors/antiamerican american actors/politicos who blame the U.S.A. for things like the way Africa is. Quickly forgetting it was European colonialism that fubared that place, and protesting that the U.S.A. should pay the most to help them. To quote many of those Frenchy's who dont want anything to do with the Iraq problem "You broke it you fix it.". I also find it ironic whenever a European protests any U.S. deal that benefits us as Imperialism and Colonialism. Are they some how forgetting that alot of nations held colonies well past WWII :dizzy2: . I think we need to send alot of those protestor's to a chinese re-education camp, ahhhhh slave made clothing is always the best..:oops:

Complete Truthyness right there South.

you do have a point.. you said it better then I could..

and that one guy,ghost

"Hey, your from Pittsburgh! I just moved from around that area, good city.

The question you asked is pretty loaded. Good luck finding a straight answer"

yeah,where you use to live at??

anyhow,
blame USA for everything, it is popluar I guess. Europe never does anything wrong,now do they??....

Scurvy

03-04-2006, 21:26

I think one reason why america is "hated", i dont know any figures, but im pretty sure by "energy use" per head it is far higher than most other countries in world (and is seen as being reluctant to do anything about it)

Duke Malcolm

03-04-2006, 21:31

Europe pulled out to fast and you still find a way to blame the U.S.A. Instead of mention the constant civil rights abuses that went on down there and the medical experiments on humans (Oral polio vaccine anyone?) you just flatly blame the U.S. as bullying Europe out.
We should also forget how European colonialism helped spur on the development of radical Islam in the middle east. But hey its popular right now to blame the U.S.A. for everything, so sling it on.

Europe pulled out too fast due to pressure from the U.S.A.. If you are going to comment on a post do make sure the post has been thoroughly read.
And of course, the U.S. was faultless during the times of European colonialism, wasn't it? It didn't continue holding slaves long after the British Empire had abolish the keeping and trading of Slaves, and even split in two when it was proposed that slavery is abolished. I think that black people in the British African colonies had it just as bad as the black people in America...

Viking

03-04-2006, 21:35

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.

Yeah! That`s it! :2thumbsup:

Your porn industry is bigger than anyone elses as well. Why would anyone hat America? :2thumbsup:

Leet Eriksson

03-04-2006, 21:51

GiantMonkeyMan

03-04-2006, 22:53

blame USA for everything, it is popluar I guess. Europe never does anything wrong,now do they??....

no we have never done anything wrong... ever ~;)

but seriously usa is worse at humanitarian rights... eg guantanimo bay (did i spell that right?)
but the reason usa annoys me is cos on all imported american tv british people are either portrayed as dirty cockney children or posh men wearing top-hats saying 'right-ho old chap' and that kind of total BS... and everyone who i know (or knew) from the us on msn messanger, after i say i am from plymouth in england, they say 'is that, like, near London?' :wall: but i suppose that's what you get for living in a hardly recognisable city... even if it was the site of where many of the first ships to set off from england to the new world

and how come there are always 'why does everyone hate america?' threads and no 'why does everyone hate wales?' threads... i mean i insult the welsh way more than the usa and the french come to that, in fact i insult lots of people... :inquisitive: hmm... i am off to drink tea and insult some rather silly looking foreigners, right-ho old fellow *puts on monacle and leaves :2thumbsup:

GMM

solypsist

03-04-2006, 23:32

here you go, guys:

http://www.uab.edu/images/imedpub/Kleenex.jpg

Ice

03-04-2006, 23:36

and that one guy,ghost

"Hey, your from Pittsburgh! I just moved from around that area, good city.

The question you asked is pretty loaded. Good luck finding a straight answer"

yeah,where you use to live at??

I lived in a town called wexford, about 15 miles north of Pittsburgh. I now live west of Detroit in Michigan.

BHCWarman88

03-04-2006, 23:45

GiantMonkeyMan, Ok,where we suppose to keep Terrsiots at?? Rich Brits Houses and give them Tea?? lol,last time some crap like that happen, you guys got your buses/subway bombed,right??

Hey Ghost,
that cool, I been in Wexford few times.. :-) :-)

Kongamato

03-04-2006, 23:59

This is the kind of post I'd write and then delete afterwards, but I think I'll post it anyway.

There are several different Americas that we can look at here. All have some folks who dislike it, "hate" often being too strong a word to use here. The key thing is that hate is irrational, and there is a difference with disagreement and hate. Be able to tell the hateful BS and the respectful disagreement apart. The reasons they have for disliking America as a state are usually due the mistakes we've made in foreign policy and our territorial expansion. While we did help rebuild Europe and Japan, I think they are seeing this as a "What have you done for me lately" world, and that we're a big, trouble-making bully.

Some hate America, Inc. I have a suspicion that the only contact with America that many of these folks get is from McDonalds and Microsoft. Ever heard of "McWorld"? To these folks, America is the embodiment of faceless consumerism, and we Americans are mindless sheep, serving the Megacorps as they seek to mass-produce all products, remove all individualism, stomp on puppies, and take their pr0n away. Others just think Coca-Cola tastes bad.

Some hate "Americans", or "ze Amereekans". We are stereotyped as obese, self-important puritanical corporate slaves addicted to lowbrow entertainment. Oh, and we're also really stupid, too. Our display of patriotism also bothers many. In post-9/11 patriotism, we've agreed to give support to "The Man" in order to eliminate our enemies. However, their distrust of power has them see this as more sheep-like devotion to a rogue state out to take all the oil from the world and drain innocent Arab blood for use in slip-n-slide parties. And then others just think country music and rap are silly.

I've begun to exaggerate. Anti-americanism has many forms, some of it being a disagreement with our national problem-solving methods, other forms of it being a rejection of popular, standard things to appear more "sophisticated" and "intellectual", true or not. What I think is going on is that many of the forces in this world are best represented by America. We're the main part of a lot of things, and all roads are leading to us. So many things out there can be considered "American" and some people are bound to dislike them. If either you or they consider this "hating America" then I think that a re-evaluation of opinion is in order. However, if somebody says we caused the Indonesian Tsunami because Israel said to, maybe we could call that hate.

Kanamori

03-05-2006, 00:15

The inflated sense of self importance is one reason. The fact that this thread was even made reflects that, as does thinking that all of them "hate" us and thinking that they spend all of their time going off about us.

Ianofsmeg16

03-05-2006, 00:16

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

Some of you Americans like to believe your still the 'underdog' against a europe that is united in flaming you (in political terms), but what you guys dont seem to realise, or appreciate, is that britain has stood by you without fail for the past 60 years since WW2, no matter how much the French, Germans or Italians or who ever blame you for all their problems, the United Kingdom has been your ally, so maybe please can YOU show a little Goddamn respect.

A.Saturnus

03-05-2006, 00:16

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

Well, our actions (wars, religious oppression etc.) have enabled your pathetic little country to exist in the first place. Show some respetc.

Marcellus

03-05-2006, 00:22

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-05-2006, 00:30

Well, our actions (wars, religious oppression etc.) have enabled your pathetic little country to exist in the first place. Show some respetc.

yeah, Israel should show Germany some more respect too.

don't worry, only messing with you.

A.Saturnus

03-05-2006, 00:34

yeah, Israel should show Germany some more respect too.

don't worry, only messing with you.

Respetc!

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 00:34

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.

Oh get over yourself. I have never seen a more arrogant, stuck-up, rude bunch of people than the average patriotic American. "WE SAVE THE WORLD! WE'RE THE WORLD POLICE!!". Well let me elabourate on why the world hates (or dislikes, however you'd like to take it) America.

#1 - America is greedy--
Yes, I will say that America has done a lot of good for the world in matters of financial support for countries who need it. But Americans also demand that this be paid back at a higher interest rate than most small, 3rd world countries can afford, so you're always on their back about it. Perhaps you shouldn't offer so much money. Then maybe the 3rd world would respect you.

#2 - Iraq
The Invasion of Iraq was purely an American offence against Saddam Hussein to protect their economical interests. Cheney and Bush have so much oil money in Iraq, and Saddam was threatening that. I can see how you'd want to protect your interests, but an invasion of a country where people were better off BEFORE the government of Saddam fell? Now, the people are in a massive, armed revolt. Allied soldiers are dying endlessly, and all because they want the old ways back. Perhaps you should have thought of THAT before you invaded Iraq.

#3 - The American people
I'm not saying all Americans are bad. But a great bunch of Americans like to think of themselves as an elitist group of the world. They think they're better than Europe. They're better than Asia. They own the world. American ignorance is causing people to turn their backs on the United States, and the elitist Americans will demand attention. Common rudeness also turns off people from acting friendly towards Americans in the fact that they think of themselves in a supremacist manner.

#4 - American patriotism
Another thing I think the world doesn't like is the fact that Americans push the boundaries of what they can do "For Patriotic Reasons". Americans force their opinions on the world, and try to force Americanism on so many people, on people with established cultures that are different than American culture. People don't like having things forced on them, so why should America have the right to force it's presence "for patriotic reasons"?

Please consider my above points. I hope not to offend any Americans in here, but this is probably the most well thought out post I've ever written in the backroom, and I'd like you all to think it over and perhaps input a better reply than SFTS did in the quote that I put above. I didn't mean to get stingy, but it got on my nerves.

Thank you all.

Cheers,
TheSilverKnight

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 00:38

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.

And to take another point here, you think Europe has "pathetic" little countries? Well excuse me if England is the mother country which gave you a language to speak. Europe has been longer established than America has on the world stage, so please don't think you're better than us, because your country isn't even half as old as many of the ones in Europe are. What I have just seen there is the most centre-minded post I have probably ever seen. Like I said to STFS, Get Over Yourselves, and grow up. ~:rolleyes:

Beirut

03-05-2006, 00:40

I suspect that one of the reasons America is disliked or hated in various parts of the world is its percieved hypocrisy on various issues, examples being Guantanamo Bay and supporting dictators if they are friendly towards the US.

What he said. :yes:

Although I consider myself a great fan and supporter of the US of A, I do find immense humour in the hypocrisy the US government puts forward.

All the while the the US was in bed with the Shah of Iran, the Chinese government, assorted South and Central American dictators, and various psychos, torturers, mass murderers, and nutbars the world over, we were all told to avoid Cuba like the plague because "Fidel isn't a very nice guy".

I'm sorry, but you would not only have to be brain dead to have bought that - you would have to be brain dead to think people would buy it.

Kongamato

03-05-2006, 00:42

Don't you think SFTS might have been joking, and was not expecting anyone to take him seriously?

All of you are bordering on being patronizing.

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 00:44

Don't you think SFTS might have been joking, and was not expecting anyone to take him seriously?

You are bordering on being patronizing.

Hasn't he said such things in seriousness before? I believe he would if he felt the need to prove himself superior to everyone...I don't mean to be offensive to any Americans by the way, I was just making a few points.

SwordsMaster

03-05-2006, 00:47

... And this is, yet again, an example of a Backroom topic's self-destruction.

Kongamato

03-05-2006, 00:47

Then please, don't use statements like this.

I have never seen a more arrogant, stuck-up, rude bunch of people than the average patriotic American. "WE SAVE THE WORLD! WE'RE THE WORLD POLICE!!".

This is a blatant generalization. I don't like it when people think this way.

Reenk Roink

03-05-2006, 00:49

And to take another point here, you think Europe has "pathetic" little countries? Well excuse me if England is the mother country which gave you a language to speak. Europe has been longer established than America has on the world stage, so please don't think you're better than us, because your country isn't even half as old as many of the ones in Europe are. What I have just seen there is the most centre-minded post I have probably ever seen. Like I said to STFS, Get Over Yourselves, and grow up.

My my, how euro-centric...

For the record...

1) STFS always kids around and uses much sarcasm in his posts...

2) Do you know why Gelatinous Cube has the word "jingo" in his profile? Do you know what it means? Jingoism is ultra-nationalism... If you are going to use him and STFS as the examples of the "average American" you are terribly confused...

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 00:50

Then please, don't use statements like this.

This is a blatant generalization. I don't like it when people think this way.

I apologise for using that phrase :shame: :bow:
Like I said I did not mean to offend any Americans, I was just making a statement. Once again, I am sorry.

Kongamato

03-05-2006, 00:51

Ok. Please disregard the additional edit to that post, I'll get rid of it.

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 00:52

My my, how euro-centric...

For the record...

1) STFS always kids around and uses much sarcasm in his posts...

2) Do you know why Gelatinous Cube has the word "jingo" in his profile? Do you know what it means? Jingoism is ultra-nationalism... If you are going to use him and STFS as the examples of that "average American" you are terribly confused...

For the record, I did not mean to be overly nationalistic here, but I believe America has some problems with being too self-centred and over-nationalistic itself.

Like I said before I did not mean to offend anyone in anyway, but this was taken as an example for overly-patriotic and supremacist Americans such as those who think they have a right to boss around Europe and intimidate small nations with their might.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

03-05-2006, 00:52

I like to See Contirues HELP Us and Respect us. look at Tri Sanka, Famils got wipe out, kids lost their Partents. ok,we help them. but look at NEw Orelans, Kids aslo Lost their Partents, but No One Helps us.

what you guys think??

Well, I seem to recall the George Bush administration REFUSING German aid for Katrina...
We offer money for a good cause, you refuse. We refuse to send you our young men to die in an unjust war, you complain. There really is no pleasing the George Bush administration.

EDIT: Substituted "George W. Bush administration" for "America". I realise I didn't word most of the post very well, but it's a wonder I can write at all with my head like this.

Reenk Roink

03-05-2006, 00:55

For the record, I did not mean to be overly nationalistic here, but I believe America has some problems with being too self-centred and over-nationalistic itself.

Like I said before I did not mean to offend anyone in anyway, but this was taken as an example for overly-patriotic and supremacist Americans such as those who think they have a right to boss around Europe and intimidate small nations with their might.

Noted, I am happy you are not a jingoist...:nice: :shakehands:

We have a few here, but they ruin it for the majority...

Ianofsmeg16

03-05-2006, 00:56

My my, how euro-centric...
If my mate Silverknight was being euro-centric and generalising the American people, what was GC doing here?

People should just ignore European Criticisms of America. They were criticizing us and hampering us even during the Korean War, when 90% of the troops, and nearly all of the funding was ours. They were doing it while we were dishing out billions of Dollars to rebuild Europe with the Marshal plan!

Don't question our motives. You have no right to do that. Our actions have enabled your pathetic little countries to survive this long, and to prosper. Show some respect.
Too be honest I think GC should apologise for calling us pathetic little countries when clearly some of you have the maturity of a five year old. I myself do not like being called pathetic and take GREAT offence if I am called such. So I ask everybody who agrees with what GC has said to show us a little respect, becasue not all europeans are American hating ********, I for one love visiting your country, but if i'm treated as an American hating pathetic little person, i may not visit there in future.

Reenk Roink

03-05-2006, 00:59

If my mate Silverknight was being euro-centric and generalising the American people, what was GC doing here?

Too be honest I think GC should apologise for calling us pathetic little countries when clearly some of you have the maturity of a five year old. I myself do not like being called pathetic and take GREAT offence if I am called such. So I ask everybody who agrees with what GC has said to show us a little respect, becasue not all europeans are American hating ********, I for one love visiting your country, but if i'm treated as an American hating pathetic little person, i may not visit there in future.

He should, but he is a jingoist...

They have them in Europe too, you can't reason with them...

Nobody is supporting or defending GC's words...

Ironside

03-05-2006, 01:11

Basically if I can track it right it seems to have originated from the Monroe-doctrine, who can be summarized down to
"We Americans are a freedom-loving people who wants everyone to have it as good as possible, except if you're not American. Now, make me some cheap bananas or I'll send my new pal's death-squad on you."
I'm not sure if it differs much from the European actions at the time.

Up comes WWII and suddenly US is a main player on the wordscene and the evil reds is lurking in the shadows. So US continues to apply their old tactics, while Europe starts to shift away from it while slowly losing their reasons for applying it (the colonies). Unused to the finer aspects of diplomacy, US is also getting its might around when dealing with its allies by simply using its might. During the Cold War it works, but no one likes a bully, and those things last.

Around the time when the deep wound of the US is formed (this one I'm letting you figure out) the dissonance between the US and Europe is starting to be seen and the wound itself only deepens the rapture. But the US continues their policies until the wall falls. Suddenly US foregin policy is without purpose and at the same time their victory isn't celebrated, but they're met with "good the problem is removed, now get some decency or beat it" by it's allies.
And the US cannot understand why. Wasn't it their mighty beacon of freedom and democracy that saved the world from the red danger (built of the bodies of some country with some odd name that we screwed over and over again, uhm what are you talking about, you European?)?

The rapture has never really healed (although some have tried) and the current resident of the colourless rainbow has worked so well that a book on how to make countries friendly towards you would contain don't do as that "African guy" is doing. maybe I went a bit overboard with that sentence

So basically the rapture has reached new grounds, making people sound like uhm your daddy messed up more than mine, while not having the slightest idea on what is going on in the other guys mind.

My take on it, could be wrong as I haven't been studying the issue thoroughly.

As for New Orleans and Katrina, it's needed to be an extreme disaster for it to be considered to get massive outside help (think the Indian Ocean tsunami on both the help and the disaster), when it comes to any western country. Have you even heard of "Gudrun"?
And you did receive international help after Katrina.
One BBC link on it as example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216370.stm)
IIRC, your goverment did infact turn down several offers the first few days.

Louis VI the Fat

03-05-2006, 01:18

Well, I seem to recall America REFUSING German aid for Katrina...
We offer money for a good cause, you refuse. We refuse to send you our young men to die in an unjust war, you complain. There really is no pleasing America.That is rather brilliant.:laugh4:

I can't be bothered to write anything substantial on the subject of anti-Americanism. The US is the one on top, so it's held to a different standard than other countries.

Noblesse oblige. I.e., you get to live in the nice mansion, but in return, you can't fart in public like everybody else.

Deal with it, or help yourself to some of Soly's Kleenex if you must.

Ice

03-05-2006, 01:26

that britain has stood by you without fail for the past 60 years since WW2, no matter how much the French, Germans or Italians or who ever blame you for all their problems, the United Kingdom has been your ally, so maybe please can YOU show a little Goddamn respect.

I agree. Like I said in the Falkland thread, Britian is probably our best ally we have and I would fully support any action that helps them.

Kongamato, very good explanation.

Don Corleone

03-05-2006, 01:44

Good grief. You know what's really funny? The ignorance on both sides of this issue.

I think you take Louis', Beirut's and Kongamato's arguments together and there you have it. More importantly, I think Soly had the best point in this thread so far.

First off, Silver Knight, when you describe us as the rudest, most arrogant bags of wind on the planet (and truthfully, I do actually know some Americans that fit that bill) you should realize that in general, if you ever actually meet a few of us and quit relying on TV and friends for your opinions, I think you'll find we tend to be a little more cloistered than most people, not through arrogance, but through simple insularism. We tend to be considerate and friendly, but generally, only when we actually know somebody.

Second, Gel Cube, SFTS, you know, making these jokes don't exactly help. Jokes are only funny when you consider your target audience. It's not funny if they think you're serious and you confirm the stereotypes you're trying to poke fun at.

All in all, I think a lot of Americans don't realize that the finger poking that gets sent our way goes on among just about everyone else. You have to realize, America is roughly the same size as Europe. Just travelling the length and breath of our own country is enough to keep your average Joe occupied for a lifetime. What's more, when we do come to visit, we don't receive the warmest of welcomes. Fact is, some Europeans do have a chip on their shoulder. Most don't, but the ones that do tend to be vocal enough that we feel very unwelcome and wind up hiding in our hotels, rather than getting out and getting to know you.

Now, important conclusion coming up here... you don't make friends with stereotypes, categorizations or national identies. You make friends with individuals. We as Americans need to grow a thicker hide and realize you find 'people' everywhere, home and abroad, and from my travels, we're all more alike then different.

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

TheSilverKnight

03-05-2006, 01:49

Would that we could go back in in time and let your poor Europeans kill eachother off. Would that we could back in time and let your continent rot after both world wars. Would that we could go back in time and simply let the communists take over Europe.

Woe is America, for leaving Europe intact.

I find myself offended slightly by this, but I respect your opinions, despite the fact I disagree with them. But the world wouldn't exactly be a better place with Europe gone, nor would it be with America gone.

Good grief. You know what's really funny? The ignorance on both sides of this issue.

I think you take Louis', Beirut's and Kongamato's arguments together and there you have it. More importantly, I think Soly had the best point in this thread so far.

First off, Silver Knight, when you describe us as the rudest, most arrogant bags of wind on the planet (and truthfully, I do actually know some Americans that fit that bill) you should realize that in general, if you ever actually meet a few of us and quit relying on TV and friends for your opinions, I think you'll find we tend to be a little more cloistered than most people, not through arrogance, but through simple insularism. We tend to be considerate and friendly, but generally, only when we actually know somebody.

Second, Gel Cube, SFTS, you know, making these jokes don't exactly help. Jokes are only funny when you consider your target audience. It's not funny if they think you're serious and you confirm the stereotypes you're trying to poke fun at.

All in all, I think a lot of Americans don't realize that the finger poking that gets sent our way goes on among just about everyone else. You have to realize, America is roughly the same size as Europe. Just travelling the length and breath of our own country is enough to keep your average Joe occupied for a lifetime. What's more, when we do come to visit, we don't receive the warmest of welcomes. Fact is, some Europeans do have a chip on their shoulder. Most don't, but the ones that do tend to be vocal enough that we feel very unwelcome and wind up hiding in our hotels, rather than getting out and getting to know you.

Now, important conclusion coming up here... you don't make friends with stereotypes, categorizations or national identies. You make friends with individuals. We as Americans need to grow a thicker hide and realize you find 'people' everywhere, home and abroad, and from my travels, we're all more alike then different.

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.

To reply to Don Corleone: A good post, and I agree wholeheartedly with your points. And yes, I find a great deal of Americans to be nice people (since I have met quite a few Americans. I have actually been to the United States a few times.), but there are the people who make jokes, and do put out and make themselves seem like the very stereotypes people explain about, and to be honest, why? Are they just doing this to cause an argument, or do they wish to prove another point? And if the latter, then what point would it be? That we live up to the stereotypes you put out??? To me it does not make a lot of sense.

Ianofsmeg16

03-05-2006, 02:01

Everyone who's feelings are hurt.... grow up.
I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me :shame:

Louis VI the Fat

03-05-2006, 02:05

The world wouldn't exactly be a better place with Europe gone, nor would it be with America gone.Spot on, mate.

Louis VI the Fat

03-05-2006, 02:06

On SFTS-gate: give the kid a break. He's one of the funniest posters around, and I had a good laff' over this:

There jelaous as Americans we are handsome sexy smart level headed and frankly other nation cant handle that combanation of American supremacy. It really gets to people but Ive learned to live with it.:laugh4:

Don Corleone

03-05-2006, 02:12

Why does anyone act like an ass? The reasons are as varied as the people themselves. But hey, let's all kick back and enjoy what we all have in common:
~:cheers: :kiss2: and, of course, :sleeping:

Don Corleone

03-05-2006, 02:16

I can't help but feel as though this comment was directed at me, if so, I take your advice. The reason iresponded sharply to GC's post is that the issue raised by him (Euros vs. US) is one of the only political arguments I get angry about. But I won't argue my case any longer because I will just embarress myself by getting into an argument with someone who is older, more experienced and is far better at arguing his case than me :shame:

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcom and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Bits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

Proletariat

03-05-2006, 02:16

I can see pretty clearly why Ian was offended by GC's remarks. I have absolutely no clue how anyone could be silly enough to have their feelings hurt by SFTS's obvious joke.

Don Corleone

03-05-2006, 02:19

Ianofsmeg16

03-05-2006, 02:36

Well, I agree, but it's a shame Ian didn't stop and think about GC's usual posting. He's a lefty actually usually stands against jingoism and waving the flag mindlessly. I think what GC was trying to do was make a joke, but it clearly didn't go over well.
Well, I don't post in here as much as I do the frontroom so I don't generall know GC's usual posting.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcom and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Mann, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Bits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.
Well thats good to know, we have (usually) have a strong opinion against those of the continent :2thumbsup:

And yes it's calmed me down, coupled with the fact that you weren't specifically talking about me :2thumbsup: You've reasserted my faith in the backroom as a civilised place :laugh4:

Tachikaze

03-05-2006, 03:52

When I began at this forum many decades ago, I kept a low profile until people started writing things like: "people criticize America because they're jealous" (they meant envious) or they are ignorant of the "real" US (like post #27 here). I decided to chime in because I am a US citizen, born and raised on US pop culture in the heart of US suburbia. I have been to the four corners (except Florida) of the country and seen a lot in my 44 years.

My "anti-Americanism" has been well-known at The Org for a long time. I wonder if the forumers who label me that way ever consider why I criticize the US so much.

No one wants to hate their country. I received the same pro-US propanganda as anyone else. I wore a sun visor in red, white, and blue patriotic colors when I was ten. I wanted to paint the fire hydrant in front of our house red, white, and blue during the nation's bicentennial in 1976.

But, slowly, over the years, I learned to see the country objectively. It really helped when I spent time in Europe, Asia, and South America and saw the people and societies there*. I also teach ESL in San Diego and work closely with hundreds of foreign students every year. I married a Japanese.

Once I looked at the US more objectively, not as an American, but as a human, I became increasingly critical of it. The actions of the government; the people I see every day who indulge in food, conveniences, and entertainment like children out of control, and who prefer to live in illusions; the lack of moderation--everything done to extremes, against the very core of the lessons of wisdom of sages like Aristotle and Lao-Tse. I didn't decide to distance myself and become shameful of the US; the people and policies convinced me.

I like what Silver Knight said in his first post (#35). I think patriotic Americans are more ignorant of their own country than many outsiders. Just like the forest for the trees cliche. Posts #50, #20, and #51 are spot-on as well.

To be sure, the US has its strengths, mostly in the culture brought in by the underclasses and the progressive laws introduced by liberal politicians and popular movements (like consumer protection and civil rights). I love the US highway system, with its very informative signs and carefully tested, well-maintained roads. People here come up with great practical inventions, like T-shirts, sneakers, and White-Out.

But this society is seriously ill and paranoid. The ultra-nationalism and ultra-religious fervor (governments love a faith-based, rather than critically-thinking, populace) are symptoms of it. The bulk of the population is immature, gluttonous, and ignorant. They demand democracy as a vague ideal, but have no clue what is going on and can't be bothered to vote anyway. Meanwhile, the ones who did vote selected a man to be the national leader of the most powerful nation on earth because he's a "good Christian" and his "common man" image (however, he's a member of the priviledged elite--I told you Americans live in illusion).

It's hard to see that every day and be proud.

*In the US, generosity means providing a bed and food for a visitor. Fine. No complaints here. But, I have been to and heard about societies where generosity means giving up your own bed and meal for a visitor. That's generosity.

Soulforged

03-05-2006, 04:13

People, people...We all know why we hate america. It's because % 90 of americans are vampires the rest is trying to become one. Their leaders however are a mixture of reptil and bufalo with human brain. We all know that Vladimir Dracul took a trip to america 100 years ago and infected a lot of people there, it appears that Karl Robe is a descendant from one of those infected families or from Dracul himself. The war on Iraq wasn't either for oil, no it was for reasuring a constant supply of fresh blood.
This studies done on american people couldn't get the nature of Condoleeza Rice however, so we really don't know what she is yet.

Proletariat

03-05-2006, 04:15

*In the US, generosity means providing a bed and food for a visitor. Fine. No complaints here. But, I have been to and heard about societies where generosity means giving up your own bed and meal for a visitor. That's generosity.

Sorry to hijack, but travelocity has never pointed me towards anything like this, even when I sort lodging fares by price. Will you help me plan my next vacation? I wouldn't want to waste any alcohol/food/car rental money on unnecessary hotel fees.

Tachikaze

03-05-2006, 04:43

Sorry to hijack, but travelocity has never pointed me towards anything like this, even when I sort lodging fares by price. Will you help me plan my next vacation? I wouldn't want to waste any alcohol/food/car rental money on unnecessary hotel fees.
Try visiting people's homes, rather than hotels. Although, I recommend staying only if invited. Even then, I wouldn't put anyone out of their food and bed, so I personally haven't had to inconvenience anyone to that degree. However, I have friends who have been given such hospitality.

Alexanderofmacedon

03-05-2006, 05:03

First of all, I'd like to say, I live in America and I love it here.

With that said though, I am a VERY strong liberal and I feel America has had many mistakes, but I think we've done right as well.

I look at it this way:

When a kid is really quiet no one hates the kid, but no one really loves him either. If a kid is really outgoing, people will love him, but also people will hate him. America is like the outgoing kid. We are absolutely hated by many, but there are those who love us.

My input anyway...

AntiochusIII

03-05-2006, 07:31

AntiochusIII

03-05-2006, 07:54

How can Europeans claim a few bad american fish spoil the whole lot, when it is even worse in Europe? Mobs of people who have been indocrinated from birth towards utopian socialist crap that will never work. People who seem to be inherantly ungrateful, thinking they are still on top of the world. Europe talks the talk, but lack the balls to walk the walk, while America does both and gets no credit for it. America is not like that because it's people are lazy, or innefficient, or sit on their ass all day laughing while Africans starve. We're where we are because we take control. Europe is a leach on America's greatness.

Once again I put forth my argument that it doesn't matter what Europeans have to say about America. As a rule (and although there are exceptions to every rule, they remain neglected exceptions none the less), Europeans are indoctrinated from birth to accept US Aid while at the same time plotting how they can use that aid to hurt us. Indoctrinated from birth to hate us, to see US as Sub-Human. So anything they say regarding America can safely be tossed aside as bias, and unworthy of note.I...truly doubt that is the case.

You see, you are generalizing Europe--a diverse continent of many nations and many histories--the way some Europeans generalize the United States. And your attacks on it makes no sense whatsoever.

Generalizations are often not very nice. The mobs do that, not the mages and the scholars. The Ivory tower sees far.

And I have yet to see a satisfactory justification from you of America's need to be superior.

On a side point, I am not European; I am in the United States, immigrated two years ago, and before you ask, legally, of course.

Also, you missed my point that prejudice, not Joe the spoiled fish, is the key to the image. What forms that prejudice, though, is a larger subject, and I am a lazy ass not too bothered to analyze and define such subjects right now. :sweatdrop:

AntiochusIII

03-05-2006, 08:49

See my posts in the other thread as to why Leftist americans, even Immigrant Americans who happen to be Leftist, are inherantly against America's freedoms. Such a motive cannot produce unbias arguments.Erm...is that indirect ad hominem?

Nevermind, see my post in the other thread for why it is irrational to claim as such, and let's get back onto the topic.

Avicenna

03-05-2006, 10:05

Sticking your nose into everything and invading countries to seize oil does help. And the things GC are saying in the Taiwan China thread also make others hate America, if that is what you think about other countries and your right to rule the world.

Fragony

03-05-2006, 11:24

It is just fashionable to bash America. Makes you look smart.

LeftEyeNine

03-05-2006, 12:10

Well, I don't like how US governments stick their nose into everything going on. They usually build up good deck of cards to keep other players arguing over and when it is their turn they bluff/threaten and/or satisfy whoever needs it to keep their game crashed and their own hand comfortable. For example, I simply don't want any Johnnies driving into Iran to bring peace that will grow severe consequences for my country.

Tachikaze may be making some points, experience always has something to say. But once again I came up with the question :

Assume that Turkey (substitue yours) and USA had exchanged their positions. How would my people start behaving, would my government stick their nose into everyone else's job like whom we are criticising ?

I don't have a clue. But it is still fashionable to criticise USA for even catching a flu. I wonder if Turkish movie industry will produce a sequel to the movie "The Valley of The Wolves" (my ***) :smoking:

Kagemusha

03-05-2006, 12:14

Ok. so you helped us and now we are complaining everything you do? Lets get couple facts straight. First why do you generalize Europe like its a single country? Yes you have helped a lot of countries of Europe in past,but not all. I come from Finland and America has always been good trading partner to us,but we never received a penny of Marshall aid,or in matter of fact any other aid from US.While Finland were paying war compensations to Soviet Union after the third war against them in 20th century.
So you have not gave us freedom or money so do we owe you something?My answer is:No.
Personally i dont hate US.In my world its very hard to hate a state.I can hate a person but not a state.But what im sick and tired is hearing all the time how everybody owes you guys something when its not true.
Here we have a saying: Who´s food you are eating,his songs you are singing.
I or my country have not eaten your food,so we dont have to sing your songs also,right?:bow:

Duke Malcolm

03-05-2006, 12:58

Actually, quite honestly, no. I didn't mean it at any one person in particular. Everyone seems to be taking this whole question way, way, WAY too seriously. No offense meant, amigo. Apologies for any given.

By the way, I suppose it would help calm you and King Malcolm and a few of the other Brits down that as ludicrous as you'll find this, most Americans view the British Isles, including Manx, Jersey and all the other hinterlands as 'different' than the rest of Europe, like halfway between mainstream Europe and mainstream America. Usually, when Americans make sweeping generalizations (a bad idea in general) about Europeans, they're not talking about Brits, Irish, Welsh, Scots or anyone else that was part of the United Kingdom at one point or another.

Ahh, well that's alright then. I was provoked by comments that European colonialism was to blame for all the ills in the world, and since you nice American folks consider Britain different from Europe that might perhaps mean continental colonialism is to blame, and since I have little knowledge of that I cannot argue against it, but we all know how bad the Belgian Congo was...

Evil_Maniac From Mars

03-05-2006, 14:26

you know, I hate going on RTW or watching the News and seeing People Dissing RTW

:laugh4:

Tachikaze

03-05-2006, 16:33

One of the reasons why some hate the US, is shown very well by a few US posters in this thread, including that of the first.Of course, that doesn't make hating the US any better.

But a single spoiled fish in a basket of hundreds can spoil all of them. A single fat, arrogant, loud, ignorant, white, protestant, Puritan, rich, corporate, capitalistic "Joe" is enough to confirm one's prejudices, ignoring a thousand of those who are not "Joe." The key, though, is prejudice, not Joe.

Soly, gimme a tissue paper.
I admit I'm guilty of this selective perception myself. I see a car on a US highway with 20 US flags and jingoistic slogans or fundamentalist Christian tripe and forget that there are 50 cars around it without such symbols.

For all you European critics of the US, I just want to point out that there is a significant portion of the population here that resists the stupidity of the people I mentioned in Post #65 and policies of the Bush Regime. They are largely pooled in places like Boston, New York, Washington DC, Minnesota/Wisconsin, parts of the West Coast, and Hawaii.

For every ignorant, gluttonous American, there's a critically-thinking, compassionate, and well-educated one. Well, I don't know if the ratio os one-to-one, but there are many anyway.

I hope, someday, they will have greater effect on US policy.

Banquo's Ghost

03-05-2006, 17:10

For every ignorant, gluttonous American, there's a critically-thinking, compassionate, and well-educated one. Well, I don't know if the ratio os one-to-one, but there are many anyway.

In my experience as an Irish-European visiting and living in the States, the ratio is much, much higher in favour of the latter (compassionate etc). I would agree with your list (excepting DC, which like many capitals has some deeply unpleasant people in it) and add the mid-west, most southern states and of course, Texas. (Florida is a bit wierd).

Americans have many idiosyncracies, and in many ways reflect the very best and worst of the countries and races they came from. But I have found most to be unfailingly generous.

The American people are scared at the moment, as the world which they believed they were insulated from has shown itself to be nastier than they hoped. When a nation with the capabilities that the USA has gets scared, more than a few trees fall over in the storm. A great strength of the US is its idealism - and this is a weakness too, not least when one's ideals are punctured. The concern as to 'Why hate America' is part of this.

There's no need to be scared, because America has friends, dear friends in Europe and elsewhere. Sometimes friendship means having to say hard things, like 'you're wrong'. And sometimes it means standing together. To American ears, European criticism sometimes sounds harsh and cruel. That's our fault for not understanding our audience, because we are much nastier to our own politicians and peoples - European debates are very fierce, we're just used to being inflammatory to get our point across, since for most of history we just invaded each other, and we miss it. :charge:

Unfortunately, politicians of all flavours are using this sense of fear and confusion to their own ends. They are doing this in the UK and Europe, and throughout the world. Fundamental rights are being stripped away, while we're fibbed to about "threats".

As I look at it from across the pond, the US is having a big internal debate about what it stands for. Many American citizens are asking questions of the wider world - this thread is a good example, even if there is an injured tone. That strikes me as the sign of a strong and concerned democracy, and of a people who in the main, still believe in the ideals of their country. This debate won't be over in a month or even a couple of presidential terms. For a start, it needs a Democratic party to decide what it believes in, just as real debate in the UK needs a strong Conservative party to decide what it stands for.

BigTex

03-05-2006, 17:46

Ahh, well that's alright then. I was provoked by comments that European colonialism was to blame for all the ills in the world, and since you nice American folks consider Britain different from Europe that might perhaps mean continental colonialism is to blame, and since I have little knowledge of that I cannot argue against it, but we all know how bad the Belgian Congo was...
Yes when refering to Europe I usually do not mean the UK. I consider it seperate from the continent, its it's own special continent Britian. Britian has done quite alot to help their previous colonies, look at india one of the worlds fastest growing economies. If you notice my comment about the human experimentation was refering to Danish colony. Sorry if I offended you too much DM, European hatred is just a raw nerve. I dislike them not taking their fair share of the blame.

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
See my posts in the other thread as to why Leftist americans, even Immigrant Americans who happen to be Leftist, are inherantly against America's freedoms. Such a motive cannot produce unbias arguments.
Mr. Jello Cube we are a nation built by immigrants. And will be continued to be built by immigrants, we are the fastest growing 1st world country. Also Haruchai this debate has been going on (violently raging at some points) for well over a hundred and fifty years. Things don't get resolved very fast here, they get debated over again and again till the horse is all but rotted and turned to dust. A good example of the current debates is 3 people siting at a table, ones a 350+ lb women chowing down on a couple of whoppers. The others a smoker he's smoking right now. The third is giving the smoker a ration of s**t about how it can kill him, while carefully not mentioning to the obese women how the whopper is going to kill her, and faster I might add.

Also Mr. Tiberius there is far more oil in Alaska and the Gulf coast (possibly one of the worlds largest supplies of oil in the Gulf) oil wasnt even part of the debate for going to war with Iraq unless you happen to be french.

arrogant, loud, ignorant, white, protestant, Puritan, rich, corporate, capitalistic
Depending on where you go, they are hated by the vast majority of the American Populous. Though south carolina might be different (think they forget what happened to the last states that wanted to sucede from the union.)

But it is still fashionable to criticise USA for even catching a flu.
Very very true Mr. LeftEyeNine, I'm still expecting to see the U.S.A. blamed for the bird flu. But maybe the conspiracy wacko's have already gone down that rabbit hole, bioengineered virus to destroy China before it becomes to powerful?:wall: :shame: :juggle2:

Soulforged

03-05-2006, 18:24

Ok I see that my joke didn't helped to distract the heat here.
I don't really think that it's for their people that the rest of the world hates USA. All countries have that kind of people, if you ever visit Buenos Aires you'll notice how "proud" many are of decadence and how they treat extrangers (specially the traders in the centers). The problem with USA is that this kind of people receive much more notice and the government too, it's not wonder however because that's what gives money. Besides such a powerful contry has many interests around the world it's not that rare that they "stick their noses" into everything, and this helps a lot to bring up those hated faces and to increase the hatred directly. If you ask me I don't like that idea of "manifest desteny" but that's just me perhaps...:idea2: :juggle2:

Leet Eriksson

03-05-2006, 18:24

I wanna be honest, when i joined the .org i was just as anti-american as your run of the mill middle eastern types who blame everything else on anyone.

When i see my old posts i feel embarrassed ~;p

But people grow to love the US over-time, appreciate them for what they are... and uh alot of other things. So here is to world peace and lets all smoke the peace pipe.

<3

P.S:i'm stoned on the bong, so don't mind me, just feeling like a hippy at the moment.

Viking

03-05-2006, 19:27

It`s a small chance that the US would`ve been safer if it hadn`t secured its security by wars all over the world. :book:

Kraxis

03-05-2006, 20:49

I find it interesting that Americans here are quick to point out the truth that most of their fellow citizens are in fact not *insert obscenely long list of bad things concering Amercans*.

On the other hand my fellow Europeans are trying to defend some of the less than brilliant aspects. I wonder why nobody has pointed out that Europeans in general don't mind Americans per se. In fact we hardly notice you.
But when Ameriancs trudge around looking like, well American tourists they do become easy targets.

Add to that that we have our equal proportion of idiots, just like you Americans do. And to be honest I get sick of them at times.
But even these idiots seem to understand one thing, the USA is not a bad place by itself. Most would not mind living there, and I have even heard one of our most US bashing politicans say that she would prefer to live in the US over a various collection of 'glory'-states (term for those that are always glorified).

So do not fear/expect that the 'hate' is very deep, it is not.

Brenus

03-05-2006, 22:20

“unless you happen to be French” I am French, and if you really believe that oil wasn’t in the agenda, you should read about why wars happened. And the oil fields in Alaska are so easy to exploit, known fact.
No, the French government was against the war because it was no proof of WMD. It was no proof of link between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Iraq wasn’t a menace for the world. And all the US arguments to go to war were prove to be wrong…
So, if they were wrong, and I believe that the US Government knew they were wrong, why to go to war?
Now you have a choice to do: either the US Government lied to his allies, either the Us Government is incompetent… What happens in a company is you are one of these two hypotheses (and not both)?

Now, now, the US liberated Europe. Right they did, but it wasn’t really a choice. They were attacked by Japan. Because when the cowards French declared war to Germany to defend Poland, where was the USA? Sleeping…

Now, why do you hate Europe? Without Europe, no modern America. No USA. Point.

About the eternal debts, did the US reimburse Louis the XVI for the help he gave to the Rebels? Not only the newly US didn’t respect the words not to start separate negotiation with the English, but they even never paid the French for the troops, the navy and the heavy artillery which won their independence.

And you want to know why some people in the world hate the US: just read what you wrote. At least I had a good laugh…:dizzy2:

Strike For The South

03-05-2006, 22:32

Some of yall are taking pretty far stances for a country of 300 million people. And yes my post was a J/K (I dont see how you dont see that but whateva) so stop being so damn petty. No should judge people on there leaders although it is clear here many people are. This thread is actually quite pointless and gets us nowhere it just brings up prejduces and stereotypes. So I say we burn it. http://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gif

Ice

03-05-2006, 22:54

P.S:i'm stoned on the bong, so don't mind me, just feeling like a hippy at the moment.

Is that legal in the UAE? I'm just curious, that's all.

Avicenna

03-05-2006, 22:56

Ice

03-05-2006, 22:58

Ianofsmeg16

03-05-2006, 22:59

Bring on the Axe this thread is going nowhere! We've argued to the point of exhaustion and there is no longer a (as SFTS put it) point to this thread, as i can see this spiralling downward into a "my country is better than yours" flame war. I say close it!

Alexanderofmacedon

03-06-2006, 01:45

BigTex: it's obvious that Bush and his other Republican cronies want to get their hands on Iraqi oil. Keeps them rich and denies China Iraqi oil, all while getting more reserves in case Russia decides to bump up the price of oil with their huge reserves.

I'm sure you already know though, that it's getting harder to get oil now? Bush tried to help us and he just in fact hurt us.

I will however give Bush some credit, because as wrong as it is to invade countries and things of that sort, I think he really had some good intentions. The leader was horrible, but he mainly was unfortunetly thinking mainly of the American people in his "striking first" policy. It ended up with thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians.

Also, his father went in the first gulf war and was obviously unsuccesful, so maybe it is to protect his family honor?

Finally, one may wonder about the possibility of a religious motive for such actions as invading Iraq/Afghanistan. A modern Crusades perhaps?

Kaiser of Arabia

03-06-2006, 02:36

Seamus Fermanagh

03-06-2006, 02:45

BigTex: it's obvious that Bush and his other Republican cronies want to get their hands on Iraqi oil. Keeps them rich and denies China Iraqi oil, all while getting more reserves in case Russia decides to bump up the price of oil with their huge reserves.

There are neo-cons who would like to do this -- not the line their pockets thing, greed is a cross-party problem, but the screw China aspect. What will happen, however, is that China will buy the oil anyway by outbidding us and the drive up the world price (and probably laugh at us and class us as truly stupid because we DIDN'T do what you suggest in your post).

Are we really stupid (naive? altruistic?) enough to go to war to oust a dictator and then NOT take dominating control of our latest conquest? Yes.

Papewaio

03-06-2006, 02:45

After reading this thread I have came to the realisation that Americans are very much like the French. :inquisitive:

Alexanderofmacedon

03-06-2006, 02:49

Not offended or honored, just curious; Why is that?

Samurai Waki

03-06-2006, 05:20

why should I care what everyone else in the world thinks about me as an American. I love my home, my family, and my country and everyone else can be damned. If they (people of other nations) respect me for who I am, I'll respect them for who they are. This nationalistic BS bothers me a lot.

Ironside

03-06-2006, 08:37

After reading this thread I have came to the realisation that Americans are very much like the French. :inquisitive:

They do don't they.

Any ideas on what country that will start to play freedom fotball at some point during this century? :juggle2:

Arcanum

03-06-2006, 10:30

No should judge people on there leaders although it is clear here many people are. This thread is actually quite pointless and gets us nowhere it just brings up prejduces and stereotypes. So I say we burn it. http://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gif

You're right, no one should judge the people for their leaders deeds, but one should judge the country and a majority of the people whom voted for the leader.

Lets leave all the prejudices, all the long gone past, all the "owes" and whatnots away and then tell me that america hasn't messed up the world more than any other country in the world in the last few years.

I'm from germany, as some might know, and we had a case when president Bush came over for a visit here, where a woman wrote some anti Bush slogan on a piece of paper and published it by leaning it on the window. She then went away, since she had vacation or some such. Shortly before Bush's visit (if I remember correctly) police broke into that womans home, kicked in the door I think, and removed the piece of paper.

I myself, am pretty sure that this was done on pressure of the U.S. somehow. And even if it was not, it's a sign of the americanization of Germany, which I find rather sad since I like Germany as German and not American.

Now I wouldn't call myself nationalistic, even though I really like Germany, for it's history that is. (Don't call me a nazi either, since I'm not refering to that timespan)

To come to the point, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, diplomatic insults (Old Europe anyone? Or "axis of evil"?), the practically inevitable aboutbringing (that right?) of a war with Iran and despite that, the re-election of Bush, somehow turns me off of being pro-american.

Some might say "of course we messed up more than any other country, hey, since we're the economically and militarily biggest country and we're totally on spotlight and such!", but that's wrong to say. You can't force a war without permission of the UN and then theoretically lose the war and let more people die every day and not say that it's fubar. It's more than just a major screw-up, since you made the "terrorist-issue" even worse with Iraq.

Oh, and if we could travel in time, like someone stated in this thread (don't remember if it was one of GC's funny posts once more), why don't we travel as far as before the colonization of America?

Another thing: I heard that the children in your schools have to sing the national anthem, every day before school begins...is that true? If so, don't tell me you're not overly nationalistic. Pah...

I'm not hating America, that's a far too strong word, neither do I hate or dislike all Americans. I just say, the U.S. as a country has ****** up in my eyes.

Watchman

03-06-2006, 12:50

"Why hate America?"

You know, my younger brother has this catchy phrase he uses to communicate his negative opinion about people... "Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"

Fragony

03-06-2006, 16:07

"Why hate America?"

You know, my younger brother has this catchy phrase he uses to communicate his negative opinion about people... "Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"

Ever been there? Very pleasant country. European bashers are just repeating the stuff american america-bashers are feeding them. Of course these guys have no agenda whatsoever, don't want to be in power no sir, they are such ideoligists :laugh4:

Tachikaze

03-06-2006, 16:10

Another thing: I heard that the children in your schools have to sing the national anthem, every day before school begins...is that true? If so, don't tell me you're not overly nationalistic. Pah...
Yes, they do. And if they don't, they risk being singled out by peers. The same is true for baseball games and the national anthem.

This kind of nationalism seems normal for Americans. But it makes me cringe when I think of the other societies that have practiced this much nationalism and flag-waving. It puts us in bad company, indeed.

[added in an edit]When my ESL students arrive here, one of the first things they notice is all the national flags over over the buildings, people's homes, and their cars. They think it's pretty strange.

Leet Eriksson

03-06-2006, 20:10

Is that legal in the UAE? I'm just curious, that's all.

Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-06-2006, 20:24

I hate it because I can't find decent bacon here.~:mecry:

Louis VI the Fat

03-06-2006, 20:33

Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"Well come on, then. Let's have it.

yesdachi

03-06-2006, 20:46

Interesting question, Why hate America? or more to the pointe, the USA. There are actually several reasons but it think the most significant is that the US is and has been prosperous and anyone that is prosperous gains the animosity of those that are not. Combine that with the fact that when people are prosperous they tend to grow an inflated sense of personal worth and in the US’s case an inflated sense of national worth. Which is not surprising since IMO the US is the greatest country there is but most Americans could use an extra spoonful of modesty in their coffee every morning.

Another reason some hate us is that we do interfere in the business of others... a lot. but IMO not unjustly in most cases. From a governmental standpoint and more so from an industrial standpoint we have our fingers into nearly every country there is and it makes perfect sense that if we have a stake in something that we are able to use our influence to sway decisions in our favor, everyone does this, the US is no different. The issue i have with our interaction with other countries is that it is usually done without serious commitment or follow thru, and it is often done by corporations and they are hardly the best ambassadors for the US.:furious:

And still another reason some hate us is because they are ignorant. I don't mean that they are stupid but they just don't get what is going on and are easily swayed by their selfish leaders. An example: Bush visits India and thousands protest against him and the US with signs (that were probably bought with money from their US company owned callcenter jobs) that read hateful and violent things toward the US. These are the people that i really get frustrated with. Be mad at the US, even hate the US but at least have a good reason and don't wish harmful things on us in a protest then go back to work where you earn money from US companies. or accept aid from US charities, or support from US militaries (I am flipping them the bird right now).

The US government, corporations or even its people shouldent expect other countries to do what we say or be appreciative of us because we give them stuff, it doesent work within the US it is no surprise it doesent work abroad. The US usually offers $$, aid and military support because we are... nice. Far too nice IMO and if we want something in return for our generosity we should start asking for it ahead of time and stop expecting those we help to just “like” us, they never will.

That said, i think the Europeans have been getting poked at a little harder than they should in this thread (not that they cant handle it). It has been my experience that Americans are casually thought of as being loud and somewhat uncultured but there is little “hate” towards us from most (all i know) Europeans. Most i have encountered have had a blast here in the states and vice versa. I think the actual “hate” that the US receives is from the uneducated 2nd and 3rd world countries that have rulers that find it more popular for them to promote the hate of the US. You know the ones we are constantly giving support to and never receiving any real thanks from (unless i have been misreading those protesters signs:laugh2:).

I could go on but my typically short American attention span has me thinking of other things already.:laugh4:

Ice

03-06-2006, 20:56

Yes, they do. And if they don't, they risk being singled out by peers.

That isnt true at all. At my last school, it was optional and nobody cared one way or another if you sang it. We don't even sing it at my current high school. Hell, half the teachers take down the American flags in their rooms.

Slyspy

03-06-2006, 22:27

When it comes to international relations the most powerful are always resented by the weaker. It may be simple jealousy but more likely it is a sense of being controlled. A fear of losing independence, of being puppets or vassals either politically or culturally to a force over which you have no influence, a force which can be clumsy and entirely self-serving. At the moment this is the USA. Previously it was the British Empire.

Louis VI the Fat

03-06-2006, 22:41

That is an excellent post, Yesdachi.

There are actually several reasons but it think the most significant is that the US is and has been prosperous and anyone that is prosperous gains the animosity of those that are not.This is true, but only to a certain extent.

America's riches are a source of envy to many. But, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Norway are even richer, and nobody ever bitches about them.

Secondly, many people from rich countries dislike 'America', which can not be ascribed to envy. Some European and Asian countries surpass America in income. Other's like Japan, France, Germany, the UK are only close behind, I don't think their animosity is explained by any envy.
2nd and 3rd world animosity perhaps is.

I think it is America's power and might that is the envy of the world.

Slightly related, America's unbridled capitalism is a source of irritation for many socialist Europeans.

Combine that with the fact that when people are prosperous they tend to grow an inflated sense of personal worth and in the US’s case an inflated sense of national worth.~:confused:

What is this concept of 'inflated sense of national worth' you're talking about? It's so alien to my culture that I couldn't possibly comment on it.

And still another reason some hate us is because they are ignorant.Aye, 'tis so.

On the one hand, there's America, the real America, however pluralistic and ambigious it may be. On the other, there are dozens of concepts of America abroad, most of which are either a parody of America; lack any base in reality whatsoever; or are a mere projection of non-Americans fears on America.
It's America the Great Satan; America, the capitalist pig's paradise; America, the apartheid state where they butcher blacks by the thousands; America, where everybody is obese, ignorant, loud, obnoxious, a-cultured and of a short-attention span.

It has been my experience that Americans are casually thought of as being loud and somewhat uncultured but there is little “hate” towards us from most (all i know) Europeans. 'Hate' would be too strong. But don't be too naive either - there is a real element of animosity towards America in Europe.
And don't be naive about the English either, just like the continent, it's full of pricks who hate the yanks.

Having said that, the good news is that with few exceptions* all Europeans I know that have visited the US or have any personal contact with Americans tend to have nothing less than the highest esteem of Americans.

*Those exceptions being leftist academics, whose anti-Americanism is at least based on a dissaproval of American politics, not on any irrational dislike.

Seamus Fermanagh

03-06-2006, 22:44

As with most things, their are probably nearly as many reasons as there are people who dislike/hate America.

Some mislike the USA because we are the sole superpower. For some, any underdog is better than the top dog.

Some mislike the USA because of our influences/infringements on their culture. McDonalds seeks a profit wherever they are, but are they an export of culture in addition to being a business? Does this constitute a cultural "assault" as well as a culinary one?

Some mislike the USA because of its sanctimony. Few nation-states bother to characterize their actions as anything but a pursuit of national interests. The USA consistently publicizes its actions as being for the greater good of all (even where those actions are perceived by most to be in pursuit of US interests alone). This is viewed as hypocrisy.

Some mislike the USA because the believe it IS special, and that it should, therefore, strive to be better -- but that it falls woefully short of its potential.
Tachi is one of these, I believe, he does not hate the USA so much as he hates it's having fallen short of what he conceives to be its potential.

Some mislike the USA because it is more conservative than any of the other "Western" nations, and they are offended because it is so socially backwards as a result.

Some mislike us because they view us a bunch of overgrown children with little experience of history and too much willingness to employ our power in pursuit of ill-thought or idealistic goals. For them, American policy is usually nothing but a series of tantrums to be ignored.

I love the USA, and though I cannot claim it to be flawless, believe that we have added significantly more that is positive to human history than we have added to the negative column. Feel free to disagree and to tell me so -- freedom of speech being one of our cultural hallmarks.

Kanamori

03-06-2006, 23:07

Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

Aye, an incoherent drug policy is one reason to dislike the states. Pot is a schedule I drug which means that it: has no legitimate medical use; is dangerous to use even with medical supervision; and has a high possibility for abuse. It falls under none of those conditions, let alone all of them. And so, one of the most harmless drugs cannot even be used to help someone go to sleep.:dizzy2: Then you have cocaine as schedule II, with the implication that it can be safely used with medical supervision, whereas marijuana most certainly cannot be.:help:

yesdachi

03-06-2006, 23:10

That is an excellent post, Yesdachi.
Thanks :bow:

BTW - when i used the term prosperous i did not just mean money but also as you indicated power and might as well.

What is this concept of 'inflated sense of national worth' you're talking about? It's so alien to my culture that I couldn't possibly comment on it.
By “inflated sense of national worth” i mean an excissive amount of nationalism or many people having so much pride in the US that they cant see that other countries are doing just fine although they are not doing things the same as we are, or in other words... we tend to thinnk a little much of ourselves ~D.

Proletariat

03-06-2006, 23:19

By “inflated sense of national worth” i mean an excissive amount of nationalism or many people having so much pride in the US that they cant see that other countries are doing just fine although they are not doing things the same as we are, or in other words... we tend to thinnk a little much of ourselves ~D.

Louis was prolly using a grain or two of sarcasm there.

Anyway, thanks Yesdachi, Louis and Seamus for butchering a perfectly fine flamefest and turning it into refreshingly insightful discourse. The nerve!

Keba

03-06-2006, 23:27

I cannot speak for others ... but I can speak from my own experiences. I have been to the US, I have friends there, people I know and respect.

I do not really hate the United States of America, as much as I fear where they might go. The US alone have enough firepower to send all of Earth back into the stone age, and for that I fear them.

It is nationalism ... the exceptional pride in a nation's and people's achievemnt. Since the US is more of an amalgam of various groups, it built upon the state, not upon the nation as an ethnical group. I suppose one of the reasons the Europeans dislike the Americans is that, the Americans take pride in their cultural and historical achievments, putting them high, Europeans (including me for that matter) tend to dismiss such things as irrelevant. I was born in a town founded as Hellenic colony that became a Roman town, and that continued all the way to the modern age ... I live in a city, where there are buildings over two thousand years old, which, to Americans (and I speak from experience) is an unimaginable amount of time.

I have been in Washington DC and seen and smiled at a house the US goverment protects as a national monument, it is some 200 years old. I go to college in a building built in 1774.

But I have gotten sidetracked ... back to nationalism.

I come from a small country that gained it's independence in war 15 years ago. I was but a kid then, but now, looking back at the things I have seen ... I cannot help but notice the inflated pride in a nation's achievement ... the nationalism that excluded others. It is only now waning, exposed to pressure from the European community, the open borders and free travel, the tourism ... but it is gone only among the top 9% of the population, it still runs strong in those less educated.

That is what I fear. That is the path I fear that the US will take. That is a path that is suitable only for war ... or for starting one. There is no middle ground, there is 'us' and 'them' ... 'we' are better, 'they' are inferior ... it is 'our' duty to bring them culture. Already, the signs are there ... the quest to spread democracy, by force if need be. Already people judge their cultural values, their way of life to be 'better' ... it may very well be, I agree that democracy is the best form of goverment so far, but that is a judgement. Some people might be happy with their goverment. An autocratic regime may not be a bad thing in all cases, it may bring order and development to a nation in strife.

I do not hate the US, I fear it. The following quote will best explain my fear.

If World War Three is fought with atomic and nuclear weaponry, the fourth will be fought with sticks and stones.

yesdachi

03-07-2006, 00:44

I do not hate the US, I fear it.
You should be more afraid of a world without the US. Or even a US with its hands tied more than they are already. No other nation has done more for the protection of freedom and protecting those who cannot protect themselves than any other in recent history (or maybe ever). Sure we promote democracy and fight hard for those who desire it but the US also leaves dictatorships and all other sorts of governments alone as long as they do not interfere with our interests or commit horrible crimes against innocents. The US is not perfect and it is definitely full of internal strife over our future but without the US or some other major power for good the world would be overrun by the selfish and uncaring. The countries you should be concerned about are the ones with power but are unwilling to use it even thou atrocities are going on all around them.:inquisitive:

yesdachi

03-07-2006, 00:46

Louis was prolly using a grain or two of sarcasm there.
I figured but its better to be safe than misunderstood!?

Ice

03-07-2006, 01:35

Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

Yup, 100% illegal.

Strike For The South

03-07-2006, 01:48

Yup, 100% illegal.

somebodt sounds pleased :mellow::laugh4:

Tachikaze

03-07-2006, 03:21

Some mislike the USA because the believe it IS special, and that it should, therefore, strive to be better -- but that it falls woefully short of its potential. Tachi is one of these, I believe, he does not hate the USA so much as he hates it's having fallen short of what he conceives to be its potential.You are right.:bow:

Devastatin Dave

03-07-2006, 04:00

That isnt true at all. At my last school, it was optional and nobody cared one way or another if you sang it. We don't even sing it at my current high school. Hell, half the teachers take down the American flags in their rooms.
Don't bother with Tachi, he makes up crap like that all the time just to be budy, budy or comrade, comrade with all the American hating lefties on this site. Unfortunately he tries with every fiber in his being to convince those who have no idea what the US is like that its the worst place to live this side of the Sudan.

Proletariat

03-07-2006, 04:10

Yeah, that Pledge of Allegiance stuff is non-sense. Maybe it was that way way back when, but the only pledge we sang had a line about Micheal Jackson where we described him with an insult that rhymed with the word 'flag.' Yeah, I know it sounds stupid now, but that was sophisticated comedy in kindergarten.

Ice

03-07-2006, 04:25

somebodt sounds pleased :mellow::laugh4:

Who? Me? Pleased?

No way...:saint:

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-07-2006, 04:26

Gah. In my school the pressure is almost to not say the Pledge. Very few people say it at all - either they don't care or they think they're making a statement. Or tired. School starts too early...

Redleg

03-07-2006, 04:44

Yes, they do. And if they don't, they risk being singled out by peers. The same is true for baseball games and the national anthem.

This kind of nationalism seems normal for Americans. But it makes me cringe when I think of the other societies that have practiced this much nationalism and flag-waving. It puts us in bad company, indeed.

[added in an edit]When my ESL students arrive here, one of the first things they notice is all the national flags over over the buildings, people's homes, and their cars. They think it's pretty strange.

LOL

They don't sing the national anthem in the school my child goes to.

How funny - sterotypes from an american about america.

Bartix

03-07-2006, 09:59

Why hate America?
Same as reason for hating Canada and Sweden: God does! (http://www.godhatesamerica.com/):laugh4:

I am not hating USA.
Do you know some one person who has very high thoughts of self, and is may be in some position of authority and loves it, but is a bit stupid and cluesless and having poorly tastes and is so full of self having head inserted some where behind?
It is possible to not love a such person with passions. Or country.

spmetla

03-07-2006, 12:14

I think that in general most Westerners don't really "hate" Americans. As individuals I think that most Americans are just like anyone else in Europe just not. Granted you get your blind patriots and religous fanatics but I assume that goes for all countries around the globe. Having done the Army thing I've definately come across ingnorant Americans who were honestly surprised to find Freeways in Kuwait and then of course other who like myself enjoy history and know of why Kuwait is a nation and at least a brief history of it, generalized of course.

I think one reason for a general dislike though would be the lack of bilingual Americans. Yes, our education system offers courses but by experience I know that most Americans don't know a 2nd language and those that do usually know Spanish as that language which I imagine irritates many people who know English as a second language (look at the internet for example and these forums and yes I realize the British established the dominance of the English language).

I can certainly understand though why the French would be irritated with America. They've heard to no end of how "America saved them in the two world wars" and how the French are cowards. I do note in the media that all French military actions are always downplayed. The French support in Afghanistan isn't mentioned in American papers, the fact that the resent intervention in Haiti was the US and the French is not well known and most people aren't aware that there are plenty of French soldiers deployed around Sub Saharan africa and these lack of accknowledgments I could definetly piss people off that are brand as cowards and surrender monkeys.

I think that for the most part and many people have already stated in is that stereotypes of Americans and Europeans causing both sides to be fairly ignorant of the individuals instead of the whole. I've got plenty of family in Austria and it's definatly apparent that they don't really like the current administration but I don't think they hate the US as a whole.

Well looks like I've been longwinded without a real point again...

Kraxis

03-07-2006, 16:10

Why hate America?
Same as reason for hating Canada and Sweden: God does! (http://www.godhatesamerica.com/):laugh4:
Uhh... I thought these sickos just said God killed the soldiers because of the homosexuals, but from there to say this:
"2,288

WBC Prays for it to be 222,288!!!"

Nasty!

Tachikaze

03-07-2006, 18:38

Gah. In my school the pressure is almost to not say the Pledge. Very few people say it at all - either they don't care or they think they're making a statement. Or tired. School starts too early...
I retract this part of my post. I was thinking back to my elementary school days. Thinking about it now, I haven't seen nearly as much pledging as in the past. I'm glad I was wrong. But I have visited classes where it is still practiced.

The worst part of saying the pledge was that I was never taught what the pledge meant. You should never ask anyone to make a pledge unless that person knows exactly what every word means.

I do not retract my statement about the anthem at baseball games (I did not mean at school as Redleg seemed to understand, but at professional games). You risk personal injury if you don't stand with the rest.

Devastatin Dave

03-07-2006, 18:44

You risk personal injury if you don't stand with the rest.
Could you please post some news articles on this actually happening or is just another one of your attempts to show the average American citizen as a commited Nazi or is this your leftist paranoia getting the best of you AGAIN.:juggle2:

Evil_Maniac From Mars

03-07-2006, 19:03

Upxl

03-07-2006, 20:08

When it Happens to Us Americans, NO ONE HELPS.

Maybe that was because we weren't allowed to help you guys.
You’re government was to proud to admit they needed help!

I remember that our country’s aid supply (men and materials) was sitting and waiting on our airports.
doing nothing except waiting for the go-ahead from you’re government.
I believe it came after a couple of weeks.

you know why,they selfish.period. we help,but no help in return.we Stuck Billions of bucks in depressed nations,and now they writing in News paper of How we are War Mongers..

Maybe that’s because you are.
You can’t deny that America had(s) a pro war mentality.

what you guys think??

America is like a teenager with a gun.
Good in heart, but dangerous nonetheless.:hide:

As for the "You broke it, you fix it", that seems perfectly true. Why should those countries who did not want to and did not depose the legitimate (if somewhat cruel) leader of a nation help in repairing that nation? It is the duty of those countries who removed the original government, "broke" it, to ensure the successive government is run fairly and that there is better civil order, "fix" it.

You should perhaps research better the European colonial empires...

Amen to that.
Allot of referring to WOII
Let me remind you people that we were attacked!
With Iraq you’re the aggressors!
This makes it very different.

Tachikaze

03-07-2006, 20:40

Could you please post some news articles on this actually happening or is just another one of your attempts to show the average American citizen as a commited Nazi or is this your leftist paranoia getting the best of you AGAIN.:juggle2:
I suggest you try it a few times and see what happens.

Ice

03-07-2006, 20:45

I suggest you try it a few times and see what happens.

I would except, I don't mind saying the pledge.

Dâriûsh

03-07-2006, 20:47

I would like to live on the US west coast. Overall the US seems like a great place to live. ~:cool:

InsaneApache

03-07-2006, 20:51

This 'pledge' seems totally alien to an Englishman. Why keep repeating a pledge at all? Surely if you have pledged something then that is irrevocable by it's very nature. Interesting hangover from the revolution one would surmise?

Ice

03-07-2006, 21:01

I would like to live on the US west coast. Overall the US seems like a great place to live. ~:cool:

That's my dream to. San Diego or one of the California coast cites will, hopefully, one day be my home.

Kraxis

03-07-2006, 21:05

I would except, I don't mind saying the pledge.
But that doesn't mean you couldn't try it out, it would only be an experiment, it wouldn't be as if you made and anti-pledge or soemthing. Or are you indeed afraid that people might take too kindly on it?

Devastatin Dave

03-07-2006, 21:33

I suggest you try it a few times and see what happens.
No, unlike you, I would NEVER sit when MY flag is presented or when MY nation's song is sung. I want you to post me an article where someone has been assaulted for not standing during the Anthem. If its soooo rampant, then shouldn't be a problem. If you can't back it up, then go bang on your drums for peace or just keep posting non facts about the United States to satisfy hatred for the country that has given you more than you deserve.

Ice

03-07-2006, 23:47

But that doesn't mean you couldn't try it out, it would only be an experiment, it wouldn't be as if you made and anti-pledge or soemthing. Or are you indeed afraid that people might take too kindly on it?

I'm not a afraid at all. If the people around me didn't like they could kindly kiss... well you get the idea.

I won't do it because I believe to highly in what my nation's anthem and flag stand for.

Redleg

03-08-2006, 01:55

I retract this part of my post. I was thinking back to my elementary school days. Thinking about it now, I haven't seen nearly as much pledging as in the past. I'm glad I was wrong. But I have visited classes where it is still practiced.

The worst part of saying the pledge was that I was never taught what the pledge meant. You should never ask anyone to make a pledge unless that person knows exactly what every word means.

I do not retract my statement about the anthem at baseball games (I did not mean at school as Redleg seemed to understand, but at professional games). You risk personal injury if you don't stand with the rest.

It really doesn't matter if you meant Baseball Games or School - the point still stands.

How funny - sterotypes from an american about america.

I went to a Ranger's game last season - and several people did not stand during the National Anthem and nothing happened. Hell most of the time Baseball players don't even take their hats off. At a recent Basketball game during the National Anthem the players were still attempting to warmup for the game, and half the audience was still getting to their seats. Nevermind all the ones that remained sitting.,

Tsk Tsk How funny - sterotypes from an american about america. Maybe you should get out more - see more of the country that you live in verus listening to the media about how terrible life is in the United States.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 02:39

Americans:
please sort out the bacon situation, I don't want to hate you.

Louis VI the Fat

03-08-2006, 03:18

Well, you'd better stand up for the Star Spangled Banner if this guy is anywhere near you. :sweatdrop: (http://www.politicalgateway.com/pdfdocuments/xxx142188_mantel-chairincident.wmv)

Incongruous

03-08-2006, 04:01

Why... Why hate Britain? :flowers:

All we ever wanted to do was hug you:knuddel:

Divinus Arma

03-08-2006, 04:38

Why hate America? Why? I'll tell you why.

Because we are arrogant. Just like everyone else. The problem is that we are arrogant and powerful. Which makes the underlings in the hegemony jealous.

The whole deal is crapola if you ask me. We need to work together on issues like Iraq, Africa, China, Israel/Palestine, etc. etc. But what do we alllll do?

Whine.

So stop whining. Pick up a rifle or a shovel or a sandbag or a 30 pound bag of donated rice or whatever and help us make the world better. Too bad. We are the richest and most powerful. That makes us the leader. So follow. And stop whining.

And you know what? Other nations would follow! But then we let crap like Abu Grhaib and other minor image-destroying things happen. You cannot lead without the moral; high ground. We must lead by example. So, in some respects, we have failed. In other respects, the world is full of whiners.

Tachikaze

03-08-2006, 09:13

It really doesn't matter if you meant Baseball Games or School - the point still stands.

How funny - sterotypes from an american about america.

I went to a Ranger's game last season - and several people did not stand during the National Anthem and nothing happened. Hell most of the time Baseball players don't even take their hats off. At a recent Basketball game during the National Anthem the players were still attempting to warmup for the game, and half the audience was still getting to their seats. Nevermind all the ones that remained sitting.,

Tsk Tsk How funny - sterotypes from an american about america. Maybe you should get out more - see more of the country that you live in verus listening to the media about how terrible life is in the United States.
Well, then San Diego must be very conservative, because the only people still seated during the anthem here are in wheelchairs.

Devastatin Dave

03-08-2006, 09:27

Well, then San Diego must be very conservative, because the only people still seated during the anthem here are in wheelchairs.
Yup, its just such a shame that there are so many people that reside in the US that actually have respect for it.:dizzy2:
I'm still waiting on your numerous accounts of people being assaulted at games for not standing during the national anthem. :juggle2:
BTW, San Diego has a lot of people who have served the country or are currently serving living their. And when i say serving I mean they have or are currently in the military or support the military and the United States, not banging on drums or keyboard keys but actually doing something constructive for the country. But I'm sure you contribute in some way by your attitude and beliefs, I guess... :no:

Tribesman

03-08-2006, 13:29

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 14:14

please sort out the bacon situation, I don't want to hate you.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Taffy , try some of the Irish stores or a bar that offers the Full Irish (though many of them serve up an Ulster Fry instead) .

I've found that some of the fancy dry cured hams provide a rough approximation of what I'm looking for when you fry them.
The local Irish stores just seem to have dry/tinnned/bottled goods so no bacon there.
I know of a farmer who produces proper bacon but he's in North Carolina and that's a bit of a long drive for a chunk of pig.
Oh no, I may have to hit the Irish bars to see if I can find it. Oh well, I'm sure I can endure the tweeness.

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 14:22

You could always assimilate and go for the biscuits* in white sauce!!!! Yummy!

*the term biscuit is used very loosley in the US, so try not to show fear when ordering one.:laugh4:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 15:06

You could always assimilate and go for the biscuits* in white sauce!!!! Yummy!

*the term biscuit is used very loosley in the US, so try not to show fear when ordering one.:laugh4:

I don't know, sausage gravy always looks a bit wrong to me.

Redleg

03-08-2006, 15:09

I don't know, sausage gravy always looks a bit wrong to me.

Biscuits and Gravy - yummy. Guarnteed to clog your artiries and stop your heart in the near future.

Make sure you put lots of pepper over it also.

Redleg

03-08-2006, 15:11

I've found that some of the fancy dry cured hams provide a rough approximation of what I'm looking for when you fry them.
The local Irish stores just seem to have dry/tinnned/bottled goods so no bacon there.
I know of a farmer who produces proper bacon but he's in North Carolina and that's a bit of a long drive for a chunk of pig.
Oh no, I may have to hit the Irish bars to see if I can find it. Oh well, I'm sure I can endure the tweeness.

Depends on what part of the country you are in. I have found that the bacon in the midwest is generally very thick, about 1/4 inch or sometimes more.

Pan Fried Ham is also used a lot in the mid west, west, and even the south instead of bacon.

Edit for both posts. A little Tabassco sauce helps also.

yesdachi

03-08-2006, 15:26

seeing double, oops.

yesdachi

03-08-2006, 15:30

i just had a Redbull and a granola bar but i would trade it in a hartbeat for some panfried pig with a side of butter covered biscuits slathered with spicy sausage gravy! ~D
You cant see me, but right now i look like Homer Simpson with my eyes rolled back, mouth half open and drool running down my chin. Mmmmmmm... pig.

Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No!
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal!
Homer: Heh heh heh... ooh... yeah... right, Lisa. A wonderful... magical animal.

Tachikaze

03-08-2006, 15:58

Yup, its just such a shame that there are so many people that reside in the US that actually have respect for it.:dizzy2:
I'm still waiting on your numerous accounts of people being assaulted at games for not standing during the national anthem. :juggle2:
BTW, San Diego has a lot of people who have served the country or are currently serving living their. And when i say serving I mean they have or are currently in the military or support the military and the United States, not banging on drums or keyboard keys but actually doing something constructive for the country. But I'm sure you contribute in some way by your attitude and beliefs, I guess... :no:
The military here spend a lot of time getting drunk and laid in Tijuana.

I'll save my ritual for spiritual, not political, observance. Standing for the anthem, speaking oaths, and waving flags does nothing to help the country. Paying taxes and using those taxes to help the community, like socialized medicine, does a lot more. Fighting wars in the Middle East causes harm to the US and kills those wonderful soldiers you admire.

I show my support for the military by keeping them here, not in a war zone, so they can be alive to take more trips to Tijuana.

I admire postal workers, hospital personnel, and the highway departments more than soldiers. They really keep the country going.

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 16:39

Maybe it's because of your esteemed leaders stance on global warming.

Shrub (http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=1147)

Dâriûsh

03-08-2006, 16:43

I really hate Tom Green. Does that make me anti-American? ~:wacko:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 16:45

I really hate Tom Green. Does that make me anti-American? ~:wacko:

isn't he Canadian?

BigTex

03-08-2006, 16:45

I really hate Tom Green. Does that make me anti-American?
Absolutely, positively, No. Your only anti-American if you hate George Carlin.

Dâriûsh

03-08-2006, 16:55

isn't he Canadian?

Isn't Canada in America? ~;p

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 18:00

Isn't Canada in America? ~;p

oh, yeah, good point.

I apologise for my irrelevant point.

do you eat bacon, my good man? I was just reflecting on how much Jews and Muslims are missing out.

Devastatin Dave

03-08-2006, 18:19

The military here spend a lot of time getting drunk and laid in Tijuana.

I'll save my ritual for spiritual, not political, observance. Standing for the anthem, speaking oaths, and waving flags does nothing to help the country. Paying taxes and using those taxes to help the community, like socialized medicine does, a lot more. Fighting wars in the Middle East causes harm to the US and kills those wonderful soldiers you admire.

I show my support for the military by keeping them here, not in a war zone, so they can be alive to take more trips to Tijuana.

I admire postal workers, hospital personnel, and the highway departments more than soldiers. They really keep the country going.

Still waiting on all those articles on people getting their ass kicked for not standing during the anthem. i guess its just another Tachi baseless claim of his imaginary evil America. Don't worry, you don't have to answer since you seem incapable of providing proof for most of what you say.:book:

Dâriûsh

03-08-2006, 18:22

do you eat bacon, my good man? I was just reflecting on how much Jews and Muslims are missing out. Occasionally, but do not tell anyone. ~D

Kanamori

03-08-2006, 18:32

Bacon... yuck.

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 19:34

Bacon... yuck.

Yuck, what do you mean yuck?

I do believe that you are currently domiciled within our green and pleasant land?

Now listen. Repeat after me. There is no breakfast on the planet as fulfilling as the 'full' English.

Bacon. Eggs. Fried bread. Mushrooms. Beans. (optional) Potato cake. Spam (true). Blackpudding. Sausage (not advised, British sausages are crap).

And then there's bacon for every occasion.

Streaky. (smoked and unsmoked) For the connoisseur of bacon buttys. Must be crispy.

Middle. See above in English breakfast. May also be used in buttys.

Back. Some like in breakfast, but better in dishes such as bacon and egg pie and quiche.

You really have my sympathy Taff. Even in parts of Europe, what they call bacon, I call pork belly.

You can't get tea like we have either. A travesty, travesty I tell you. First thing I do when I get home from Europe is to make a nice cuppa and get the streaky under the grill.

I feel a bit peckish now, I think a butty may well be in order. :idea2:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-08-2006, 19:40

You can't get tea like we have either. A travesty, travesty I tell you. First thing I do when I get home from Europe is to make a nice cuppa and get the streaky under the grill.

Luckily, I have managed to secure a supply of PG Tips, Twinnings, RNLI tea and a few others.

Took me a long time to get hold of that. I was surviving on rubbish like Lipton (reasonable for iced tea, crap for hot milky sweet tea).

it was close :sweatdrop:

Edit: actually, my mum sent me a bunch of tea at Christmas too.

Kanamori

03-08-2006, 19:54

Bacon. Eggs. Fried bread. Mushrooms. Beans. (optional) Potato cake. Spam (true). Blackpudding. Sausage (not advised, British sausages are crap).

No, no, no. Yuck! I grab a coffee and a muffin. Anyway, I've only met two or three other people in my life that don't like bacon, I just love the reaction, because truthfully, bacon is God's curse on everybody. The texture is the nastiest thing I've ever put in my mouth, the grease, how it all comes together... yuck.

Don't get me wrong, I love the tea. Any excuse to shove more chocolate things in my mouth is a good excuse for me.:2thumbsup: I like your Indian food in London a lot more too.~;) Fish, chips, beer, and cheese are as far as I go into British cuisine though.

Redleg

03-08-2006, 20:16

Nothing like pan fried potatos and onion cooked in Bacon Grease. Yummy. Slice the potatos thin and the onion's medium, fry in the pan with some season salts.

Eat right out of the skillet, with a piece of bread to soak up the remaining bacon grease.

A heart stopping meal for all.

BigTex

03-08-2006, 20:29

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 20:38

Maybe if you guys posted more of the culinary delights that abound in America (OK so they'll kill you by clogging up your arteries and intestines, but some of the dishes will blow you away), then other nationalities may learn to love you, for the cuddly scalawags you are. :2thumbsup:

Seamus Fermanagh

03-08-2006, 22:24

the cuddly scalawags you are. :2thumbsup:

That may be the best short summary of us yanks I've heard.

Louis VI the Fat

03-08-2006, 22:33

Breakfast!

https://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5707/photo233er.jpg

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 22:39

You have an excuse, you're French. :laugh4:

Louis VI the Fat

03-08-2006, 22:40

Still waiting on all those articles on people getting their ass kicked for not standing during the anthem.I did provide a link to a video (http://www.politicalgateway.com/pdfdocuments/xxx142188_mantel-chairincident.wmv).

Monarch

03-08-2006, 22:59

you know, I hate going on RTW or watching the News and seeing People Dissing RTW and Protestng about us.

We are a Really Generous Nation, but Less Respected..We Gave Billions of bucks and forgive other of debts doing WW2.now,those counties aren't even paying the intersit to our debts.when France was going down in 1956,we came in and help, then the French BS about us.when Earrthquakres and Tsunamis Hit Countries,we Help. When it Happens to Us Americans, NO ONE HELPS. you know why,they selfish.period. we help,but no help in return.we Stuck Billions of bucks in depressed nations,and now they writing in News paper of How we are War Mongers..

I like to See Contirues HELP Us and Respect us. look at Tri Sanka, Famils got wipe out, kids lost their Partents. ok,we help them. but look at NEw Orelans, Kids aslo Lost their Partents, but No One Helps us. you can BS all you what "that what you get for living in a hole" that bascilly what Orelans is,a Hole. but Come on, Tri Sanka Was a Island, and it was always Dirt Poor, so don't compalin.

what you guys think??

Sorry I only just saw this post...but...what have you been smoking?

You type absolutely no respect. USA is a frickin superpower, perhaps you dont know what that means, try wikipedia. Superpowers help people because they can. And you did get lots of aid for Katrina and such.

Oh and that crack about English people giving terorists tea and then getting subways bombed, who the hell do you think you are you stupid little child. People died in the bombings, innocents, why? On the very basic scale it's because we support America, terrorists hate America so if we support America then they target us too.

Oh and your attempt to comprehend post WW2 politics...do you know why America implemented the Marshall plan to inject billions of dollars into rebuilding Europe? Not exactly out of the goodness of their hearts. A primary reason was because the nations struck down by years of war where on the verge of falling to communism, but the americans knew with money, if they gave those nations a job and food then communism wouldn't be needed, all in an attempt to stop the Soviets spreading.

So all I ask is that before you start topics like this is too dig a little deeper than blind patriotism.

Ianofsmeg16

03-08-2006, 23:01

Proletariat

03-08-2006, 23:44

I remember being in a diner somewhere in the midwest where they served a dish with eggs, bacon, and hash browns. On top of that was five, melted slices of American cheese, and then on top of that was two ladles of chili.

I can't remember what the dish was called, but quite a few people ordered it. I stuck with the coffee.

Just A Girl

03-08-2006, 23:53

Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, wastefull, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of pollution,
they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronunciation of english words is terrible,
they are Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocritical brain washed. ill educated (most), red neck. trailer park trash.
There patriotic to the point where their Blind to the fact that their own country is Terrible,

and of course. they are a super sized burger eating, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
they are no worse than the english.

(ask a silly question...)

InsaneApache

03-08-2006, 23:59

InsaneApache

03-09-2006, 00:01

Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of polution, they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronounciation of english words is atrotious, there Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocrytical brain washed. ill educated (most), red neck. trailer park trash.
and of course. they are a super sized burger eatin, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
there no worse than the english.

(ask a silly quiestion...)

It would help if you posted a reply in standard English, after all this is an international forum.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:03

If you cant read it.
Go back to school.

(provided its not an american school... because the american dictionary "not an online dictionary" says,
Jelly = a gelatin based fruit flavoured dish that quivers when set.
Yet american teachers seem to think Jelly = a fruit based conserve which is often spread on bread products. "ill educated teachers dont help america")

Big King Sanctaphrax

03-09-2006, 00:09

I don't know about the rest of you, but I mostly hate America because they killed my father.

Oh, damn you America! Damn you to hell!

InsaneApache

03-09-2006, 00:16

If you cant read it.
Go back to school.

I can read it. Could someone from, say Romania? This is an international forum.

Learn to type you pillock.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:21

I can read it. Could someone from, say Romania? This is an international forum.

Learn to type you pillock.
Thats a personal attack.
Major warning = 2 points.

But i dont care :)
your unjustified and un provoked. insults just reflect your intellect IMHO.

p.s

as you well know.
Every 1 has to learn to read.
and if some 1 cannot read what i said.
Then they have not finished learning.
reading my text helps people understand the diferent ways people pronounce certain words. and as a result it will no doubt help them with their education.

P.P.S
want me to type like this then?

evry 1 has 2 lrn 2 read.
nd if sum 1 cant read wht I say.
thn they havnt finishd lrning.
reading my txt hlp's ppl undrstnd the
difrnt way's ppl, pronounce crtan wrds.
nd as a result, it will no-doubt hlp them, with
their education.

cos i can type like that if you want ...

Louis VI the Fat

03-09-2006, 00:26

Good grief. :wall:

Ice

03-09-2006, 00:28

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:34

Arrogance is fine..
as long as your right.

InsaneApache

03-09-2006, 00:35

A personal attack?

Grow up.

Ice

03-09-2006, 00:37

Arrogance is fine..
as long as your right.

Your "Jelly Evidence" hardly supports this claim.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:37

I see...

So calling some 1 a pillock directly is not a personal attack?

Go read the rules My freind.
You should know them by now though. You have been here long enough.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:40

Your "Jelly Evidence" hardly supports this claim.

Would you care to elaborate?

the american dictionary says a word means 1 thing.
american teachers say it means another.
Nothing arrogant about pointing this out.

Arrogance would be for some one to disregard the dictionary meaning of an already well used word,
And substitute their own.

Or maby arrogance is to think you have the right to tell the world what to do.
When you havent been around for any length of time at all.

Americans as a whole are the epitome of arrogance

Proletariat

03-09-2006, 00:42

Well, there went a fun thread. :wall:

Alexander the Pretty Good

03-09-2006, 00:47

I think we got shambled!*

*Refers to phrase in my school for theft. IE, "you shambled my item!" or "Has anyone seen my pen?" with the response "Shambled!" I find this particularly apt with the nefariously hypothetical connection between J.A.G. and a certain other poster. So, J.A.G. shambled our fun thread.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 00:50

<------ see there...
ShambleS by name.
ShambleS by nature.

Look up the word :)

1 (informal noun) a state of complete disorder.

2 (archaic) a butcher’s slaughterhouse.

P.S
Please dont refer to me as J.A.G
There is a nother org patron with that name..
And it could cause confusion.

Redleg

03-09-2006, 00:56

Make it with proper bacon and yer in there :laugh4:

Depends on what you mean by proper bacon.

I like my bacon to look like this

http://www.dakinfarm.com/xq/aspx/path.2005/img.031_04_L/deptId.175/displayId.1191/qx/ProductLargeView.htm

Nice and thick

Leaves lots of good grease for pan frying the potatos and onions.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:00

Tribesman

03-09-2006, 01:01

the american dictionary says a word means 1 thing.
american teachers say it means another.
Nothing arrogant about pointing this out.

It might help if you used a British dictionary before you write rubbish , or an American one , they will give the same definitions .
I wonder what the American definition of pillock is ?

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:06

Trish Has an american dictionary.

It stated Jelly is gelatin based fruit dish that quivers when set.
I dont see what your point is.

(I will soon come and give you the american definition word for word.. Give me a sec n watch this post. Il edit it...)

P.s
english and american dictionarys dont give the same definitions... or spelling.

InsaneApache

03-09-2006, 01:12

Noun 1.
pillock - a person who is not very bright; "The economy, stupid!"
dolt, dullard, poor fish, pudden-head, pudding head, stupid, stupid person
berk - a stupid person who is easy to take advantage of
klutz - (Yiddish) a clumsy dolt
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pillock

I look forwards to my warning points.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:17

I wont be Reporting you..
Like i said. The insult just reflects yourself.

Obviously you have been called a pillock many a time for you to be so ready to use this almost obsolete word.

So there ya go.
I dont care :)

P.s

"i laugh at the definition 'the economy of stupid..' " I guess they mean epitome..
Highly amusing i must admit :) The irony is sweet.

Noun 1.
pillock - a person who is not very bright; "The economy, stupid!"
dolt, dullard, poor fish, pudden-head, pudding head, stupid, stupid person
berk - a stupid person who is easy to take advantage of
klutz - (Yiddish) a clumsy dolt
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pillock

I look forwards to my warning points.

Tribesman

03-09-2006, 01:19

Trish Has an american dictionary.

Well tell her to buy a decent one:idea2:

english and american dictionarys dont give the same definitions... or spelling.
Jell-o is a trademark you Noun 1.
pillock - a person who is not very bright; "The economy, stupid!"
dolt, dullard, poor fish, pudden-head, pudding head, stupid, stupid person

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:23

Trish's Dictionary is approx 30 years old.
And as such would have less Slang definitions than yours.
And there for is more accurate to the language.

In 30 years poorly educated teachers can ruin the education of a country :)

Just look at america...

P.S

Pillock does not appear as a word in my 1864 dictionary.
So i can assume the word was Derived to describe americans, who happened to be getting to be a bunch of pillocks at the time :)
Cant prove it.
But the dates match.

P.p.s

There is no "jell-o" in our dictionary.
neither is their. color, armor, valor, labor,

Jelly is jell-0

american jelly is Jam. or A fruit conserve/preserve. to be pedantic

Oh and whilst im at it.
The definitons at Dictionary.com Excetera Differ GREATLY from the real definitions given in the Paper dictionary.

Next time your in School. college, uni or just visiting the the library.
Grab a copy of a real dictionary.
And give your self an education.

InsaneApache

03-09-2006, 01:31

I have indeed been called a pillock and a lot worse on many occasions, that doesn't mean I have to live up to it.

:wall:

Redleg

03-09-2006, 01:33

thats very skinny bacon you get over there...
not much meat compared to what i eat..

http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/irishbacon.jpg

They dont shrivel to the width of your bacon..
And usualy have more meat than that at the tail end..
(best pic i could find sry)

Same type of bacon - the difference is in the cut. I often get bacon that is about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch thickness because I like thick cut bacon. Others like thinner bacon. There is a wide selection of bacon in most stores that I go to, From thick cuts of close to an inch in width to very skinny cuts. I can even go to the local butcher (meat market) and get the bacon slap to cut the thickness that I want.

However I do perfer cured bacon - which is hard to find uncut.

Tribesman

03-09-2006, 01:45

Trish's Dictionary is aprox 30 years old.
And as such would have less Slang definitions than yours.
And there for is more accurate to the language.

Are you really that dumb ?:help:
"slang" definitions of Jelly only cover explosives and narcotics .

In 30 years poorly educated teachers can ruin the education of a country
Whats your excuse then ?
Did you have a really bad teacher for 30 years or something ?

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:46

well when bacon gets really thick.
I call it gammon :)

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:48

LOL.
I love you guys lol.

I answer a Stupid question.
And you start trying to personally attack me.

Thats good:)

Just means you listend.
heard what i had to say.
knew it was true and had no come back,

So its Insult time.

You guys Own LOL!

P.S

Jelly and peanut butter sandwitch would mean You use jell-o "tm" and peanut butter.
But you dont.
you use Jam and peanut butter.

So using the word Jelly in place of Jam is indeed slang. :)
Like calling a house a crib is slang.
A crib happens to be a small bed type object for babies.

see how the use of 1 word to mean a diferent meaning to its origional meaning = slang.

And that if your dictionary has canged the deifiniton of a word it now has More slang meanings and there for is not accurate.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 01:58

never mind

Tribesman

03-09-2006, 02:01

Just means you listend.
heard what i had to say.
knew it was true and had no come back,

No shambles it just means that you are so dumb , that you don't even realise you write rubbish .

Ice

03-09-2006, 02:23

LOL.
I love you guys lol.

I answer a Stupid question.
And you start trying to personally attack me.

You are the one provoking these attacks, calling Americans "the epitome of arrogance". I have an idea for you. Why don't you use the time you spend looking up words in the dictionary, and dedicate it to working on your people skills.

Redleg

03-09-2006, 03:06

Just means you listend.
heard what i had to say.
knew it was true and had no come back,

No shambles it just means that you are so dumb , that you don't even realise you write rubbish .

Well Tribesman I just ignored Shambles comments because they were not worth responding to, since the comments were primarily sterotyping and idealogue generalizations.

Hell at least he could attempt to come up with something orginial instead of just being a poser.

:laugh4:

Alexanderofmacedon

03-09-2006, 03:21

It's a little different (and a bit stupid) in Texas. We say the pledge to the American flag, AND the Texas flag. THEN we stand for a moment of silence...

I usually dont say anything stand up for the pledge, sit down for the rest, but stay silent for the moment of silence...

Redleg

03-09-2006, 03:22

LOL.
I love you guys lol.

I answer a Stupid question.
And you start trying to personally attack me.

Thats good:)

Even better I just ignored your comments until now. What's even funnier is that its Englishmen and an Irishman that are informing you of your poor grammer, spelling, and sentence structure.

Generalizations and sterotyping based upon idealogue postions are their own worst enemies. No reason to attempt to counter your comments, since they counter themselves by their very nature.

Jam and Jelly are both apporiate words in the method in which you are attempting to use them. Both describe a type of fruit preserve that is used as fillings for that type of sandwich.

It seems that you are attempting to take a stance about the use of the English language by Americans. There are several valid definitions for Jelly - just like for crib.

From Websters

Main Entry: 1jel·ly
Pronunciation: 'je-lE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural jellies
Etymology: Middle English gelly, from Middle French gelee, from feminine of gelé, past participle of geler to freeze, congeal, from Latin gelare -- more at COLD
1 : a soft somewhat elastic food product made usually with gelatin or pectin; especially : a fruit product made by boiling sugar and the juice of fruit
2 : a substance resembling jelly in consistency
3 : a state of fear or irresolution
4 : a shapeless structureless mass : P

Now I use Grape Jelly on my toast when I eat my bacon fried potatos and onions. The consistency of the substance meets the definition of Jelly as described in definition 1, provided by Mr. Webster.

My Grandmother, used to make Jelly and Jam several times a year. Slightly different things and processes where used to make the two different items.

Main Entry: 1crib
Pronunciation: 'krib
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cribb; akin to Old High German krippa manger, and perhaps to Greek griphos reed basket
1 : a manger for feeding animals
2 : an enclosure especially of framework: as a : a stall for a stabled animal b : a small child's bedstead with high enclosing usually slatted sides c : any of various devices resembling a crate or framework in structure d : a building for storage : BIN
3 a : a small narrow room or dwelling : HUT, SHACK b : a room or shack used for prostitution
4 : the cards discarded in cribbage for the dealer to use in scoring
5 a : a small theft b : PLAGIARISM c : a literal translation; especially : PONY 3 d : a summary and key to understanding a literary work e : something used for cheating in an examination
6 : CRèche 1

Now it seems crib has several different meanings then the one you are attempting to apply to it. Several of the meanings are older then either the definition or the slang that you have attempted to apply to it.

Someone doesn't understand the language meanings, methods and usage enough to tell an American, an Englishman or an Irishman that they are using the language incorrectly

Edit to remove some of the quotes.

Strike For The South

03-09-2006, 03:24

I like biscuts and gravy. They need to make them edible underbritches in biscut and gravy flavor. Id eat them underbritches.

Tachikaze

03-09-2006, 03:50

Bacon and attacking each other's use of English. This thread isn't closed yet?

Taffy_is_a_Taff

03-09-2006, 04:34

Bacon and attacking each other's use of English. This thread isn't closed yet?

To be fair, the bacon point is valid.
I brought it up as the reason I hate America, it doesn't do bacon as good as I get at home. The other patrons are discussing my point.

Seamus Fermanagh

03-09-2006, 04:51

Nor were we attacking one another's use of English. Shambles cited the mis-use of English by Americans as one reason for his hatred of America. Virtually all of the remaining commentary was aimed at Shambles' poor use of the language.

Does what we label "country ham" actually list as bacon for you Brits?

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 06:54

You are the one provoking these attacks, calling Americans "the epitome of arrogance". I have an idea for you. Why don't you use the time you spend looking up words in the dictionary, and dedicate it to working on your people skills.

How am I provoking anything?
The thread title asks...

Why Hate America??

So i answerd.

some dont like the answer so resort to attacking me...
others who dont like the answer take a difrent aproach.

never the less the question has been answerd.
And it's not my problem if the aswer isnt apretiated. im not saying im any better than any one.
Simply answering a question.

Like i Initialy said....

Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, wastefull, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of pollution,
they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronunciation of english words is terrible,
they are Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocritical brain washed. ill educated (most), red neck. trailer park trash.
There patriotic to the point where their Blind to the fact that their own country is Terrible,

and of course. they are a super sized burger eating, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
they are no worse than the english.

(ask a silly question...)
"Ask a silly question...."

prehaps i could have worded it to start

In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are VIEWED to be...

but i doubt that would have made any diference to the responce

P.s
has any one here ever been stung by a jell-o fish ?

p.p.s

"Country ham"
does not look like any bacon ive seen :)

Tachikaze

03-09-2006, 08:58

To be fair, the bacon point is valid.
I brought it up as the reason I hate America, it doesn't do bacon as good as I get at home. The other patrons are discussing my point.

Nor were we attacking one another's use of English. Shambles cited the mis-use of English by Americans as one reason for his hatred of America. Virtually all of the remaining commentary was aimed at Shambles' poor use of the language.

Does what we label "country ham" actually list as bacon for you Brits?
It seemed that, in both cases, they were going off on their own tangents, just as DevDave and I were doing with the anthem.

I didn't think the comments about Just A Girl's writing style was justified, even if she did insult American English. Well, now that I think about it, it was rather ironic.

Anyway, at least she tried to get us all back on topic with her first post.

By the way, I agree with much of her assessment, even if I wouldn't have been quite so harsh. But I disagree with the criticism of American English. There is no "correct" English. Modern British English dialects have evolved just as much as the American varieties. Both are significantly different from English in 1500.

Just A Girl

03-09-2006, 09:35

im not a she...

GoreBag

03-09-2006, 10:44

To be fair, the bacon point is valid.
I brought it up as the reason I hate America, it doesn't do bacon as good as I get at home. The other patrons are discussing my point.

He's right. The Yanks complain about 'Canadian bacon' often enough, too.

Avicenna

03-09-2006, 14:49

Just like to point out to all who diss others' use of English... grammar is spelt with an 'a'.

GRAMMAR

yesdachi

03-09-2006, 15:47

Hummm, it seems to me that you might have a lot in common with Americans. :kiss:

Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, wastefull, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of pollution,
they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronunciation of english words is terrible,
they are Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocritical brain washed. ill educated (most), red neck. trailer park trash.
There patriotic to the point where their Blind to the fact that their own country is Terrible,

and of course. they are a super sized burger eating, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
they are no worse than the english.

(ask a silly question...)

Devastatin Dave

03-09-2006, 16:09

It seemed that, in both cases, they were going off on their own tangents, just as DevDave and I were doing with the anthem.

I thought it wasn't a tangent but extreme homosexual attraction for each other masked by our outward aggression, other denying our inner thoughts and desire.~:flirt:

Kraxis

03-09-2006, 16:40

I thought it wasn't a tangent but extreme homosexual attraction for each other masked by our outward aggression, other denying our inner thoughts and desire.~:flirt:
My dear... If this is attraction then I wonder what G. Bush has for S. Hussein...

Tachikaze

03-09-2006, 17:37

I thought it wasn't a tangent but extreme homosexual attraction for each other masked by our outward aggression, other denying our inner thoughts and desire.~:flirt:
Up late at night studying for psychology exams, are we?
:girlslap:

Tachikaze

03-09-2006, 17:41

im not a she...
A stupid mistake on my part. :stupido3:

Devastatin Dave

03-09-2006, 17:45

A stupid mistake on my part. :stupido3:
No kidding, with a name like "Just a Girl" how could we ever get confised that this person obviously has a penis!!!:dizzy2:
Tachi, just to let you know so we can all be clear, I'm a trangendered lesbian muslim African American Democrat that also heads the local chapter of NARAL and is a mod for moveon.org. I don't want you to feel "stupid" when its obvious to everyone who I truelly am.

Just a Girl, you should change your name to "Just a Pain in the Arse".:laugh4:

Ice

03-09-2006, 20:38

How am I provoking anything?
The thread title asks...

Why Hate America??

So i answerd.

some dont like the answer so resort to attacking me...
others who dont like the answer take a difrent aproach.

never the less the question has been answerd.
And it's not my problem if the aswer isnt apretiated. im not saying im any better than any one.
Simply answering a question.

You answered the question in a rediculous, sterotypical way. Next time, try to add some substance to your argument. I would be a nice change from your asinine writing.

BigTex

03-09-2006, 21:00

Originally Posted by Just A Girl
Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, wastefull, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of pollution,
they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronunciation of english words is terrible,
they are Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocritical brain washed. Originally Posted by Me
Seeing as you ask..
In general americans (as a whole not individuals)
are.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

obnoxious, arrogant, overweight, wastefull, annoying, want to be dictator's, who contribute huge amounts of pollution,
they have annoying accents, their incorrect pronunciation of english words is terrible,
they are Gun loving, war mongering, Hypocritical brain washed. ill educated (most), red neck. trailer park trash.
There patriotic to the point where their Blind to the fact that their own country is Terrible,

and of course. they are a super sized burger eating, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
they are no worse than the english.

(ask a silly question...)
There patriotic to the point where their Blind to the fact that their own country is Terrible,

and of course. they are a super sized burger eating, never home cook. human form of the plague.

But apart from that.
they are no worse than the english.

(ask a silly question...)

Well Little Miss they may have resorted to attacking you becuase there is no structure to your debate. There's nothing they can form a rebudle from when all you did was list many horrid and dispicable sterotypes.

We arent gun loving, but it is written into our constitution and many of us like to hunt so we are against banning guns. I'm sure I could call the U.K. knife loving becuase of the raw percentage of stabbings that take place. We do not misspronounce words, if you were to take an australian and a British person they would not sound alike even though their speaking english. I personally like the war mongeing sterotype, and for this i'd refer you to the annals of history. The U.S.A. has been in FAR fewer wars then European countrys FAAAAAR fewer. Infact both South America and North America have been in less war's combined then Europe. Isnt that an odd fact, the America's are some of the most peace loving continents.

As for your comments about "trailor trash" show some respect for the poor in the world, for they have had a much harder life then you.

You also seem to forget when commenting on pollution that we are a country of 300++ million people, and no smaller country would compare to our production of pollution as a whole. Thats simple 1+1=2 arithmatic, but apparently you dont understand why %'s are needed for many things when comparing large countrys to small.

As for want to be dictators, umm last I checked we had a Republic (spartanesk like republic.) hell this november there are ellection. Something no one can forget becuase those damnedable politicians are doing the telemarketer thing at the moment. Btw our countries name is the United States of America, not "america" which has a couple of things wrong with it. First its America, second America is the name of 2 continents and an Italian, not a country. Get it right.

Find some real debatable tangeable facts Ms. Just A Girl, then we can have a debate and not a slugfest of attacks.:shame:

Paul Peru

03-09-2006, 21:31

Just like to point out to all who diss others' use of English... grammar is spelt with an 'a'.

GRAMMAR
Is that what they taught you in Kelsey Grammer School today?:laugh4:

I'll be back once I hate America.

Brenus

03-09-2006, 21:46

“The U.S.A. has been in FAR fewer wars then European countrys FAAAAAR fewer.” You are faaaar younger, but apparently working hard to fill the gap…:laugh4:
For the dialogue about jelly, it was real ARTE, the Germans and the French will understand, when the channel started…:inquisitive:

Csargo

03-09-2006, 23:22

All the people that hate America are just scared that they would get the crap kicked out of them by America.

KukriKhan

03-09-2006, 23:32

Just FYI: a Brit-to-Yank translator/dictionary:
http://english2american.com/index.html#index
to help colonials know when they're being complimented, or insulted. :)

mystic brew

03-09-2006, 23:35

honestly, i don't think nearly as many 'hate' america as it seems. sure, a whole lot of people will criticise, but i think that it's more in the way that families bicker than 'hate'...

Kraxis

03-09-2006, 23:36

second America is the name of 2 continents and an Italian, not a country.
Ahhh... America = Amerigo Vespucci? Well, he did provide a name, but it wasn't his name directly. As you can see it is twisted a bit.

- This nitpick has been sponsored by Nitpickers Inc.

Just A Girl

03-10-2006, 05:26

Seeing as polution % was mentioned,
Mind telling me why america did not attend the world summit??

Actualy Ill tell you...

becous america produce more emissions than any 1.
the world summit was going to ask them to reduce their emissions.
The amount of reduction they needed to do was proportional to what every 1 els needed to do.
but becous there are a lot of americans,
the raw figures looked like america had to reduce emissions by more than other countrys.
the arse holes didnt show up.
so technically they refuse to reduce emissions in acordance with the world summit.

and They refused to allow 3rd world countrys the right to prehaps polute a litle bit more than they should whilst they get their coal burning power plants running excetera. (they refused to let 3rd world countrys do this Becous poor old america is not allowed to polute that much)
basically they are a bunch of [edited].

Just in case your going to ask this question...

how would being allowed to pollute more, help 3rd world countrys..?

il answer it now.

if you allow 3rd world countrys to have lenient polution laws.
they can produce electricity and products at a cheaper cost than they would if they needed to controll emissions.
thus allowing them to sell cheaper products.
exports to other countrys would be possible due to cheaper manufacturing costs.
and thus bringing them an income.
which in turn would help them get back on their feet.

America dosent like that idea.

and they dont care about the 3rd world countrys

they dont want to loose out on a few exports.
or stop using huge pointless muscle cars.
so to them its better to let the people starve.
and polute as much as they like..
*cough [edited for language] cough*

Tribesman

03-10-2006, 09:05

Seeing as polution % was mentioned, .........

Hmmm.....In 30 years poorly educated teachers can ruin the education of a country ....are you an American Shambles ?

Just A Girl

03-10-2006, 09:20

feel free to correct me if im wrong.

or of course just type nonsence...

Tachikaze

03-10-2006, 09:46

We arent gun loving.
"Gun obsessed" is more like it.

but it is written into our constitution
The US Constitution says "arms", not guns.

We do not misspronounce words.
I mispronounce (and you missspel) words often, especially when I'm sleepy. But you're right. Our pronunciation is as legitimate as any other.

The U.S.A. has been in FAR fewer wars then European countrys FAAAAAR fewer. Infact both South America and North America have been in less war's combined then Europe. Isnt that an odd fact, the America's are some of the most peace loving continents.
What time period are you referring to?

You also seem to forget when commenting on pollution that we are a country of 300++ million people, and no smaller country would compare to our production of pollution as a whole. Thats simple 1+1=2 arithmatic, but apparently you dont understand why %'s are needed for many things when comparing large countrys to small.
While places like China have terrible pollution when it comes to coal smoke and litter, the US has by far the highest per capita rate of CO2 emissions in the world. It has the most motor vehicles per capita and the largest personal vehicles. It also produces by far the largest amount of packaging waste, discarded fast food containers, and discarded electronic equipment (including tons of toxic metals) of any nation on earth.

Btw our countries name is the United States of America, not "america" which has a couple of things wrong with it. First its America, second America is the name of 2 continents
This I totally agree with. Good point. Although, I kinda like 'Merica.

BigTex

03-10-2006, 19:48

Originally posted by Kraxis
America = Amerigo Vespucci

Wasnt his name Amerijo Vespucci? And yes fully aware America is a misspelling of his name, but still he was the person the continents were named after. Figure the spanish fubared his name up at some point.

Orginally posted by Just A Girl
becous america produce more emissions than any 1.
the world summit was going to ask them to reduce their emissions.
The amount of reduction they needed to do was proportional to what every 1 els needed to do.
but becous there are a lot of americans,
the raw figures looked like america had to reduce emissions by more than other countrys.
the arse holes didnt show up.
so technically they refuse to reduce emissions in acordance with the world summit.

We are the numbe one producer of Co2 and thats about it. You'll have to look to china for the ozone destroying materials.

Orginally posted by Tachikaze
The US Constitution says "arms", not guns.

Arms in that statement means guns. This was put into t he constitution for a variety of reason not because we are gun obsessed as you put it. Please feel free to try to find another meaning for arms then guns (other then your or other peoples arm your hand is attached to), I might actually get a good laugh out of it.

InsaneApache

03-10-2006, 20:23

Please feel free to try to find another meaning for arms then guns (other then your or other peoples arm your hand is attached to), I might actually get a good laugh out of it.

Let's see, rapiers, cudgels, sabres, spears, clubs, scythes....need I go on?

Seamus Fermanagh

03-10-2006, 20:56

Seeing as polution % was mentioned,
Mind telling me why america did not attend the world summit??

Actualy Ill tell you...

becous america produce more emissions than any 1.
the world summit was going to ask them to reduce their emissions.
The amount of reduction they needed to do was proportional to what every 1 els needed to do.
but becous there are a lot of americans,
the raw figures looked like america had to reduce emissions by more than other countrys.
the arse holes didnt show up.
so technically they refuse to reduce emissions in acordance with the world summit.

and They refused to allow 3rd world countrys the right to prehaps polute a litle bit more than they should whilst they get their coal burning power plants running excetera. (they refused to let 3rd world countrys do this Becous poor old america is not allowed to polute that much)
basically they are a bunch of ass holes.

Just in case your going to ask this question...

how would being allowed to pollute more, help 3rd world countrys..?

il answer it now.

if you allow 3rd world countrys to have lenient polution laws.
they can produce electricity and products at a cheaper cost than they would if they needed to controll emissions.
thus allowing them to sell cheaper products.
exports to other countrys would be possible due to cheaper manufacturing costs.
and thus bringing them an income.
which in turn would help them get back on their feet.

America dosent like that idea.

and they dont care about the 3rd world countrys

they dont want to loose out on a few exports.
or stop using huge pointless muscle cars.
so to them its better to let the people starve.
and polute as much as they like..
*cough Arse holes cough*

You are not the first to express such opinions, nor will you be the last. We differ on the substantive issues in question.

Now, as to your tone of expression

[edited for language]

Tachikaze

03-10-2006, 21:04

We are the numbe one producer of Co2 and thats about it. You'll have to look to china for the ozone destroying materials.
We are the biggest producer of CO2 by a large margin. You didn't mention that. Don't forget the packaging waste. The amount of packaging in our trash each year is obscene, far more than any nation--per capita.

Arms in that statement means guns. This was put into t he constitution for a variety of reason not because we are gun obsessed as you put it. Please feel free to try to find another meaning for arms then guns (other then your or other peoples arm your hand is attached to), I might actually get a good laugh out of it.
I have no doubt that the people who wrote the constitution pictured muskets and bayonets in their heads when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. But, by using the word arms, the particular kinds of weapons citizens are allowed to own is not guaranteed by constitutional law. You could just as easily claim that citizens should be allowed to buy hand grenades and SAMs at a Walmart.

Muskets can no longer serve the same purpose as in 1781 (allow us to form an effective militia). The spirit of the law created in 1781 did not include people walking around the suburbs of Seattle with a 9mm pistol.

Anyway, we shouldn't elevate this discussion in this thread.

Duke Malcolm

03-10-2006, 21:19

Redleg

03-10-2006, 21:20

We are the biggest producer of CO2 by a large margin. You didn't mention that. Don't forget the packaging waste. The amount of packaging in our trash each year is obscene, far more than any nation--per capita.

Don't worry Tachikaze from what I have seen in other countries they are quickly catching up.

I have no doubt that the people who wrote the constitution pictured muskets and bayonets in their heads when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. But, by using the word arms, the particular kinds of weapons citizens are allowed to own is not guaranteed by constitutional law. You could just as easily claim that citizens should be allowed to buy hand grenades and SAMs at a Walmart.

They meant arms in the context of what the definition of arms is for a militia. Arms means weapons. The type of weapon can be regulated - ie read the first part of the ammendment. However the government can not deny us the right to own arms. They can regulate them all they want, and that is why the current gun registation laws will not be defeated with a constitutional arguement. If those who favor gun control would fix thier sights on proper regulation - they would accomplish far more good then their current stance on gun control ie the removal of weapons.

Muskets can no longer serve the same purpose as in 1781 (allow us to form an effective militia). The spirit of the law created in 1781 did not include people walking around the suburbs of Seattle with a 9mm pistol.

Incorrect - the spirit of the ammendment is so that the individual can own weapons. The spirit of the ammendment is that states have the futher right to regulate what goes on within their state boundaries as long as it does not violate the initial premise of the constitution. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

Anyway, we shouldn't elevate this discussion in this thread.

However you just did.

rory_20_uk

03-10-2006, 21:21

Let's all play nice... Seamus Fermanagh, it's best not to raise to flamers. Throwing petrol on fires rarely helps.

America might have to suffer some drop in profits to reduce their proligate waste. Of course this is neither popular with the populace or the businesses, and hence gets binned by the men at the top. Of course if the top people were slighlty more able than the current incumbent they might accede to help themselves in the longer term. Many of the solutions are more expensive in the short term, but do have benefits such as reducing the need to rely on the Middle East.

America has suffered less wars as we are generally unaware of what was there prior to the Spanish Genocide and the Native American resettlement (or slaughter - choose your terms). Europe has always had a far greater density of people. With that and the more developed societies there have been far more causes of wars over the years. This has virtually no correlation to whether weapons were carried or not.

~:smoking:

Crazed Rabbit

03-10-2006, 23:17

Muskets can no longer serve the same purpose as in 1781 (allow us to form an effective militia). The spirit of the law created in 1781 did not include people walking around the suburbs of Seattle with a 9mm pistol.

Funny. I get the idea after reading the quotes of people who founded this country that they wanted every citizen to have a firearm. But I'm sure you know better than they what they meant. And the great thing is, you can walk around Seattle with a 9mm pistol legally, with a permit. :2thumbsup:

They meant arms in the context of what the definition of arms is for a militia. Arms means weapons. The type of weapon can be regulated - ie read the first part of the ammendment. However the government can not deny us the right to own arms. They can regulate them all they want, and that is why the current gun registation laws will not be defeated with a constitutional arguement. If those who favor gun control would fix thier sights on proper regulation - they would accomplish far more good then their current stance on gun control ie the removal of weapons.

I will hesitatingly agree that gun registration does not go against the constitution. But I think you extend to much credit for the word 'regulated' in the amendment. The first part is the reasoning behind the amendment, that a well regulated militia (not a well regulated right to keep and bear arms) is necessary. After all, it is the stated goal of those who would do away with the right to arms that they only want to 'regulate' guns. But regulation-of how many bullets a magazine can hold, how big the bullets are, how small the gun is, how cheap the gun is, is infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

Crazed Rabbit

Redleg

03-10-2006, 23:32

I will hesitatingly agree that gun registration does not go against the constitution. But I think you extend to much credit for the word 'regulated' in the amendment. The first part is the reasoning behind the amendment, that a well regulated militia (not a well regulated right to keep and bear arms) is necessary. After all, it is the stated goal of those who would do away with the right to arms that they only want to 'regulate' guns. But regulation-of how many bullets a magazine can hold, how big the bullets are, how small the gun is, how cheap the gun is, is infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

Crazed Rabbit

Regulate implies several things that are within the government purview in dealing with the citizens right to keep and bear arms. Has some of the regulation attempts crossed into the grey area of what the orginial intent of the wording of that ammendment. Some would say yes, some would say no, it all depends upon the prespective of the individual. (the great thing about the wording of the US Constitution is that it allows for change, and yes in some instance change that does not require the constitutional process - only the legislative process to happen.)

When the governmental regulation of arms constricts the right to bear arms, then we will face a constitutional dilimea (SP) which is possibly the reason behind many of the gun control advocates and the pushing of several ridiculous measures under the disguise of regulation of weapons.

Has it reached that point yet - I don't know, the judicary in this country have not faced a case that seems to fit the bill about the constitution concerning gun regulation. When it does, I am sure the NRA will be jumping with both feet into the court system to prevent such a legislative action.

Besides - gun control as invisioned by some will never pass the constitutional test, nor will it pass by the majority needed in the Senate or the House to become law. Too many of our congressmen understand that to pass a measure that prevents ownership of weapons will result in them losing thier political jobs, and would possible cause an armed rebellion in most of the United States - one in which our military will most likely support verus suppress.

rory_20_uk

03-10-2006, 23:44

America has altered since the Founding Fathers. The army is bigger, the police is more effective. Guns are far more lethal and more plentiful There were a few very similar bullets, and all guns were very similar.

Wind on 300 years: masses of different guns. From the lightweight to those that fire hundreds of armour piercing bullets per minute.

It may be me, but had the founding fathers had modern weaponry they might have been more restrictive.

To change the status quo I don't know what is needed. The level of shootings across America? Nah. Kids with armalites? Done that.

In the UK there are ancient laws where a man standing in a Churchyard at the Welsh border can shoot a welshman with a longbow and not be arrested. Sure, we've let that one slide, along with masses of other ones that over the years have no place in modern societies (all taxis must have a bale of hay...)

Of course America is never going to leave the internal image that they are all pioneers in the Frontiers even if they've never left Manhatten, but I feel that the time has come for at the very least permanent registration, and IMO banning of the more extreme weapons.

That the Army would mutiny on such an issue is something I find frankly incomprehensable.

~:smoking:

Redleg

03-10-2006, 23:52

America has altered since the Founding Fathers. The army is bigger, the police is more effective. Guns are far more lethal and more plentiful There were a few very similar bullets, and all guns were very similar.

The founding fathers wrote it into the constitution for a reason - it can only be changed by using the ammendment process of the constitution. Not by attempting to change or make laws that counter the ammendment.

Wind on 300 years: masses of different guns. From the lightweight to those that fire hundreds of armour piercing bullets per minute.

Hince you see gun regulation laws all the time.

It may be me, but had the founding fathers had modern weaponry they might have been more restrictive.

Nope, I believe you are wrong. They wanted the government to have a little fear of the population.

To change the status quo I don't know what is needed. The level of shootings across America? Nah. Kids with armalites? Done that.

Change in culture is what is needed not change in the law.

In the UK there are ancient laws where a man standing in a Churchyard at the Welsh border can shoot a welshman with a longbow and not be arrested. Sure, we've let that one slide, along with masses of other ones that over the years have no place in modern societies (all taxis must have a bale of hay...)

Irrevelant - we have laws in Texas that it is okay to hang a horse thief, or shot people who trespass.

Of course America is never going to leave the internal image that they are all pioneers in the Frontiers even if they've never left Manhatten, but I feel that the time has come for at the very least permanent registration, and IMO banning of the more extreme weapons.

Permanent registration is already in place, weapons beyond a demilitarized muesum peice is alreadly in place. Don't believe all the hype coming from the anti-gun extreme nor the hype from the NRA for that matter.

That the Army would mutiny on such an issue is something I find frankly incomprehensable.

~:smoking:

Oh most likely it would. Think about where most of the soldiers in the Military come from and where they are stationed. Nor does the United States Military have a history of suppressing a rebellion other then the civil war - and in that one about appoximately 50% of the military of that day, took up arms for the rebellion versus suppressing it.

Kraxis

03-11-2006, 02:49

Well, it is now believed by some that the name America comes not from Amerigo Vespucci, since that would be using his Christian name rather than the Surname, which contravenes all such naming conventions.

Rather, it might be named from Richard Americke, who financed a discovery trip to North America, and his name was on some of the first English Maps
Nice! Didn't know that.

But it will take a lot more to convince me. Amerigo Vespucci did a greater job than Americke (not better just more impressive). Point 1 to Amerigo.
The name America is more similar to Amerigo if we assume it is Spanish. Ameriga is just the female form of Amerigo, and Ameriga is so similar to America (both in writing and in phonetics) that the change is not surprising.
Ah-meh-ree-go compared to Ah-marh-rik or Ah-marh-reeh-ke... Hmmm... doesn't give much in favour of Americke. Point 2 to Amerigo.
While it is true that most placenames are taken from the surname, the Spanish are an interesting crowd when it comes to that. They do not have too many qualms about using the first names for settlements and places (though surnames are of course more popular). San Christobal is a popular settlement name in America, it is derived from Christopher Columbus. First name... Isabella is another. In general if they are important or popular their first names are suddenly more important than before.
Further, and I don't know if this can be applied, but not all cultures are so adamant about the surnaming of places. Danish tradition perfectly allows first names to be used. Many islands up in the sea between Greenland and Canada are named by first names.

None of this is any sort of firm evidence, but I'm not just ready to abandon Amerigo. What evidence I have seen so far still points to him.