History quiz

[Kalle]

Lets ask eachother some questions just for fun.

Rules:

New question is asked by whoever answers the last question first and of course correctly. If you are insecure of your answer wait for confirmation from the person who asked the question before asking the new question.

Do not ask questions that require an essay to answer.

Ask for a person, a year, a specific event and so on. At tops a few sentences should be enough to give a correct answer to your question.

Also do not ask things so specialized that it will be impossible to find an answer. For instance if you have written a historypaper about something from your homevillage where the sources are only available at a special place or so, do not ask questions about such things.




Allright, I will preserve the right to ask the first question myself:



I am looking for the author of a famous mid 17th century diary/journal. The author lived in London. Described the fire of London and many other historical events. The diary though is maybe most famous for explicit information about everyday life and also contains some content not appropriate for children :book: He was an important figure in the creation of the strong british navy. For some time he was under the protection of his patron, the earl of Sandwich, who helped our author with his career and of course he served his patron with hard work and loyalty (for some time at least).

Well, I dont think more clues are needed and if they are I will provide them.

Who is the author??

Kalle

[matteus the inbred]

It is surely Samuel Pepys.

[Kalle]

That is the man I had in mind yes :balloon2:

If you want you can continue with a new question.

Kalle

[matteus the inbred]

whoops, sorry, had an unavoidable meeting...
new question then...errrrrm :stupido:

Which battle in 1879 concluded the Zulu War?

[Banquo's Ghost]

whoops, sorry, had an unavoidable meeting...
new question then...errrrrm :stupido:

Which battle in 1879 concluded the Zulu War?

Ulundi, IIRC.

Classic British Imperial war - disaster, extraordinarily courageous battle, efficient massacre. :smile:

[matteus the inbred]

absolutely correct old boy, couldn't have any other sort of war wot?
:2thumbsup:
pose your question...now!

[Kalle]

Waiting for ur question Haruchai...

Kalle

[Csargo]

Hey how about we put a time limit on how long you have to ask the next question? And when you ask a question are you supposed to use your knowledge or can you look for it on the internet?

[Kraxis]

Hey how about we put a time limit on how long you have to ask the next question? And when you ask a question are you supposed to use your knowledge or can you look for it on the internet?
Well, how can anybody check up on that? In any case I think it is assumed that you use your own knowledge, but it can't hurt to use the internet. Though at times it can't be done and you only have yourself to draw on...

[Csargo]

Kraxis it could be done

[Aenlic]

Maybe TosaInu could add the Jeopardy final music to the web site?

[Kalle]

I guess using internet, encyklopedias and other sources or not will be up to the individual. No harm in that really I think :2thumbsup:

If it takes longer then, lets say two hours, before a new question is asked by a person answering the previous question, then the first person noticing this can ask a new question.

Well ill ask the next question just to get the thread to continue;

What was the name of the shortlived (good) Swedish colony in Africa in mid 17th century?`

Kalle

[edyzmedieval]

Kraxis, please sticky this. It deserves because at least at TWC, it has a big success. I hope it does here. :book:

My question:
When was the conquerer of Constantinople born? (exact day, month, year!)

~:)

[matteus the inbred]

March 30 1432, it says here. Which was a Thursday, I think. That's the conquerer of Constantinople anyway. I've no idea about any African Swedish colonies!!! Do we have to answer both before another question can be posed? :dizzy2:

[edyzmedieval]

I don't think so.

Here's a really difficult one:
Portuguese colony established in the South of Africa.
Which is it, and when it was established?

I'll give a prize to whoever answers this. :2thumbsup:

[matteus the inbred]

i don't know that! aaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieee....

sorry. couldn't resist the old Monty Python thing. :shrug:

[edyzmedieval]

I am waiting for the response. ~D

[Kalle]

Sorry to interfere, my intention, and I think it is the usual procedure at other forums with threads like this, is that after having answered your question about Constaninople Matteus asks the next question not a new question from Edyz at once.

Also if you do not know the answer to a question, restrain urself from posting until it is clear that no one knows or can find an answer.

Please keep to this from now on allthough we will continue from Edyz last question.

Kalle

ps the Swedish colony was called Cabo Corso ds

[Csargo]

I don't think so.

Here's a really difficult one:
Portuguese colony established in the South of Africa.
Which is it, and when it was established?

I'll give a prize to whoever answers this. :2thumbsup:

I couldnt find the answer to this GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sweatdrop:

[edyzmedieval]

Luanda, Angola.

Founded in 1576 as a Portuguese colony.
And there's another one, in Mozambique, founded in 1498.

:book:

[edyzmedieval]

Double post! :gah:

[edyzmedieval]

Triple post!!! :gah:

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Maybe TosaInu could add the Jeopardy final music to the web site?

He's not the admin anymore. Kukri is.:2thumbsup:

[aw89]

What? When did this happen?

[Csargo]

What? When did this happen?

Go look in the Watchtower I think the thread is called Forum Adm.

Well we need a new question:juggle2:

[Strike For The South]

How long did the republic of TEXAS last?

[Aenlic]

I guess I should read the thread on forum admin. Kukri it is!

So, where are we at in questions which follow the rules? Edyz answered his own question. Who is is next?

[Kalle]

Lets continue with Strike for souths question.

Whoever answers the question correctly asks the next question.

Please keep on topic and take discussions about other issues elsewhere.

Kalle

[Aenlic]

Well then, it feels like cheating since I live here; but, the Republic of Texas lasted from 1836 to 1845, when Texas became a part of the U.S.A.; although, there are still some people wandering about with bad dentition, tin ears, and little sense who claim that the 1845 deal was bogus and that, thus, the Republic of Texas still exists.

[Aenlic]

Which means, then, that I'm next?

Name the original 5 nations of the Haudenosaunee and the additional 6th member who joined later.

[Strike For The South]

The 1st 5

Seneca
Cayuga
Onodaga
Onieda
Mohawk

The 6th
Tuscarora

[Strike For The South]

What Genral uttered this quote "They Couldn't Hit an Elephant at this Distance." Then promptly got shot?

[Craterus]

General John Sedgewick.

When did the Battle of Hastings take place?

(I want the exact date )

[Strike For The South]

October 14th 1066

What Texan commander was massacred at Goliad along with his 300 men?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Urrea

When did the first crusade start?

[Strike For The South]

Urrea

When did the first crusade start?


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 WE get 3 years of Texas history.:inquisitive:

Colonel James Fannin

[Alexanderofmacedon]

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 WE get 3 years of Texas history.:inquisitive:

Colonel James Fannin


That's why I stop listening, but either way...

sad...


EDIT: I do however know, what happened. When word reached that Santa Anna was marching to the Alamo, Fannin gathered his troops and started the march towards the Alamo. The wheels of the wagons he brought along broke as well as cannons, slowing him down. Finally he was tracked by an other Mexican army and destroyed

[Strike For The South]

Who was the Canadian PM in 1950?

[Kalle]

Louis St. Laurent??

Kalle

[Aenlic]

That's the one. Long time PM, it appears, from '48 to '57.

[Kalle]

Aha, thanks for confirmation :2thumbsup:

Ok, next question:

This man became king of Sweden 3 times!! Whats his name?

Kalle

[Aenlic]

Ooh, ooh! I know, I know! (raises hand)

But I'll give someone else a chance. Hint, hint: He was also briefly King of Norway.

[Csargo]

Aha, thanks for confirmation :2thumbsup:

Ok, next question:

This man became king of Sweden 3 times!! Whats his name?

Kalle

Is it Gustav the III

I'm not sure though:sweatdrop:

[Kalle]

Sorry Csar, thats not correct, but at least Gustav was king once :2thumbsup:

Aenlic, I think you can answer it now :)

Kalle

[Aenlic]

Okie dokie.

Karl Knutsson (Charles VIII). He was elected king in the mid-15th century. He served for a few years, then he was deposed after a rebellion led by an archbishop and a Swedish Bonde, Eric Tott, who orchestrated the election of the Danish king as Swedish king. The two ruled as regents for the Danish king, Christian I. The Danish king and the archbishop had a falling out and the archbishop was sent to prison. Another rebellion by the archbishop's family and friends led to the restoration of Karl who had been in exile in Gdansk. He ruled for less than a year before being exiled again, this time by the Swedish Bonde, Eric, again. A few years later, Eric reverted to support of Karl and he was returned from exile yet again, ruling until his death a few years later. Only the Russian great princes have a more impressive record of restorations and removals of the same person multiple times.

Question now...

A hard one.

What Russian grand prince, ruler of Polotsk and briefly elected ruler of Kiev by the vache, was also believed to be a sorceror and a werewolf?

[Kalle]

Well my guess would be Vseslav of Polotsk (Vseslav Bryachislavich), son of Bryachislav Izyaslavich, Prince of Polotsk and Vitebsk, and great-grandson of Vladimir I of Kiev and Rogneda of Polotsk.

Kalle

[Aenlic]

Well my guess would be Vseslav of Polotsk (Vseslav Bryachislavich), son of Bryachislav Izyaslavich, Prince of Polotsk and Vitebsk, and great-grandson of Vladimir I of Kiev and Rogneda of Polotsk.

Kalle

Correct you are sir! Vseslav the Werewolf, prince of Polotsk! Pillager of Great Novgorod in 1068. He is known today as Usiasłaŭ the Sorcerer in Belarus. I add him to every new M:TW mod in the early era as a hero (or more precisely an anti-hero) because it's just such a wonderful name! (I suggested it was hard; but not particularly for a TW modder, since Vseslav is mentioned in several places used by mod researchers, such as the Kievan Rus database (http://members.aol.com/feodosij/rus/rusindex.html) and the Regnal Chronologies (http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html))

Well done, and your question?

[Kalle]

Easy one now,

Who were the most famous conquistadors credited for destroying the incas and aztecs?


Kalle

[matteus the inbred]

Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro?

[dracosean]

that is easy hernado cortez.

this should be easy what was name of the "Iron Chancellor"?

[Craterus]

Otto Von Bismarck...

[Csargo]

that is easy hernado cortez.

this should be easy what was name of the "Iron Chancellor"?

Its not your turn

Its Matteus's turn

read the rules my friend:inquisitive:

[matteus the inbred]

sigh. I think this may happen a lot. :shrug:

Anyway, thanks Csar, but I waive the right to ask a question as I'll be on holiday with no internet access from this afternoon until next Wednesday, so I suggest that we now (assuming his answer is acceptable) go with Craterus...fire away!

[Craterus]

Okay...

When did Queen Victoria (of Great Britain) die? Exact date please..

[Csargo]

Okay...

When did Queen Victoria (of Great Britain) die? Exact date please..

22 January 1901:2thumbsup:

[Craterus]

With or without the help of Google?

Anyway, it's your turn..

[Csargo]

Someone else can have my turn.



P.S. Except for SFTS

[Strike For The South]

sweeeeeet. At what point was the terrotorial reach of the HRE the greatest

[matteus the inbred]

somebody's gotta try and answer this 'un...I reckon during the reign of Frederick II, particularly the 1230s.

[cutepuppy]

I guess it was a little bit earlier: during the reign of Heinrich VI (frederic's father, who conquered the norman kingdom of sicily)

[Knight Templar]

SFTS, are you going to post if the answers above are true or false?

[Avicenna]

EDIT again:

I found this map: http://home.comcast.net/~vienna1230/maps/holy_roman_empire_1138_1254.jpg

The HRE under the Hohenstaufens seems to be its greatest extent. I'm not much of a middle ages fan, so I just googled it. :embarassed:

[AntiochusIII]

Yes, apparently it was during Heinrich's short reign, an Emperor who was the son of Freidrich I Barbarossa, arguably the dynasty's greatest, and father of Freidrich II, the last Emperor (though not the last) of the Hohenstauffen line when the Holy Roman Empire was at its greatest extent.

The main difference between his realm and Barbarossa's was that he added Sicily to his holdings--his son, Freidrich II, would practically lose the empire as he spent his entire life fighting in Italy from the base in Sicily (how ironic...) and a short time in the Holy Land, while his son and the German dukes disobeyed him from Germany.

Nonetheless, my answer is not absolute because the Holy Roman Empire was a very vague thing even back in the day. The Italians sometimes were recognized formally (though rarely practically, until Freidrich II's time) as subjects of the Empire and sometimes weren't. :inquisitive:

Later on, during the Hapsburg timeframe, the Hapsburg Emperors would have holdings far beyond the Holy Roman Empire's official border, and yet in that official border their authority was always in question; later on it was nonexistent. That doesn't matter though, for the border was indeed smaller than Heinrich's Empire.

Also, we are taking this question based on the conclusion that Charlemagne's Empire was not the same as the Empire we're talking about here.

And somebody answered it before, so I'm not claiming any right to ask questions.

[Strike For The South]

gah sorry all

Yall are right... someone new question

[Craterus]

What happened in 1369 to the Timurid Empire?

[Aenlic]

It began?

[Craterus]

Nope... :no:

[matteus the inbred]

the accession of Timur the Lame at Samarkand?

[Aenlic]

That one sounds good to me. I guess the confusing part was using the term Timurid empire. The empire itself isn't refered to as such until 1370 by historians, probably because the ascension to the throne of Samarkand came at the end of 1369; but the ascension to the throne is considered the beginning of the empire. Thus, I said that is when it began.:inquisitive:

[Craterus]

Sure have it. I wasn't sure how to word the question.

I was actually looking for Samarkand being made the capital of the empire...

[matteus the inbred]

So it's Aenlic's question now, yes? or mine? I don't mind which. Better Aenlic as I'm going home now!

[Aenlic]

You take it, Matteus. Your answer was more in line with what Craterus was looking for, answer-wise. Ask away!

[matteus the inbred]

why thankyou!

ok; what was the battlecry or motto of the Grand Catalan Company?

[Aenlic]

Well since no one is answering and I had no clue, I went looking for the answer.

Took a lot of digging, but I found the answer here in the Guild! In a Feb. 2006 post, Swordsmaster posted here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1063327&postcount=8) a translation of a Spanish newspaper article about the Almughavars which included their two battle cries.

Aragon, Aragon!

and

Desperta, ferro! (Awake Iron!)


Ask another nice tough one, Matteus! I like digging for answers more than I like thinking up a new question.

[matteus the inbred]

heheh, well done Aenlic! :2thumbsup:
'Desperta ferre' was the one I was looking for, meaning 'awake the iron!', I didn't know about the Aragon warcry, although I do know that they used the banner of Aragon most of the time. Lovely bunch, the CGC...

If it's okay with everyone I'll ask another one then. (If it's not ok, someone else can ask one! Should be Aenlic as he answered correctly)

Name the only Napoleonic Marshal of France to receive his baton on the battlefield.

[cegorach]

I am not sure, maybe Jozef Poniatowski ?:inquisitive:

[The Stranger]

the guy that lead the hussars...forgot his name

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Etienne MacDonald?


I don't think that's his full title, but you know who I mean.

[matteus the inbred]

evil maniac is correct. Marshals Marmont, Suchet, Oudinot and Poniatowski were all promoted as a result of battlefield performance, but only Etienne-Jacques-Joseph-Alexandre MacDonald (!!) was created a marshal on the field.
fire away, evil maniac.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Who was the Chief of General Staff in Germany between 1906 and 1914?


EDIT: I need the full title.

[Aenlic]

Who was the Chief of General Staff in Germany between 1906 and 1914?


EDIT: I need the full title.

Chief of the Great General Staff Helmuth von Moltke (the Younger)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Correct, otherwise known as Helmuth Johann Ludwig von Moltke.

[Aenlic]

Well then... ask another one! And I'll let someone else answer.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

OK then...


What is the motto of the House of Hohenzollern?

[Louis VI the Fat]

What is the motto of the House of Hohenzollern?Nihil sine Deo (nothing without God).

Who is the greatest Frenchman in history?

[Strike For The South]

you

Charlagamane

[Louis VI the Fat]

youI did mean to ask who was VOTED the greatest Frenchman in history. The French chose De Gaulle. But I phrased it incompletely and you obviously did answer the question as posted correctly . :balloon2:

Do go ahead and post your question. :2thumbsup:

[Strike For The South]

Name the republic of Texas presdints (all of them)

[Avicenna]

EDIT: nevermind, I thought former governors of Texas who then became president

[Csargo]

Sam Houston is the only one right?

[Strike For The South]

No!!!

[Incongruous]

Anson Jones

[QwertyMIDX]

David Burnet
Sam Houston (twice)
Mirabeau Lamar
Anson Jones

[Strike For The South]

David Burnet
Sam Houston (twice)
Mirabeau Lamar
Anson Jones

thank yoiu:2thumbsup:

[Avicenna]

Question please, Qwerty.

[QwertyMIDX]

Not sure if this is a fair question, but whatever:

Who said "Aristole would have written more, if he had done any cooking."

Sorry for taking so long, I forgot about this.

[Avicenna]

Sor Juana.

[edyzmedieval]

Ask Tiberius. I want to answer. ~D

[Avicenna]

Which hero from the Iliad (not a famous one) eventually settled in Italy and became a god there, and what famous possessions did he own?

Sorry if it's more mythical than historical, I'm in a rush. Reply if you want another question.

[edyzmedieval]

Aeneas. Forgot the famous posessions though....

[Avicenna]

You're correct I guess, but I was actually looking for someone else. Hint: he fought for the Greeks and was required to win the war.

[Craterus]

Diomedes?

[Avicenna]

Negative.

Hint: He was actually needed to win: it was a prophecy that said that the Greeks had to have him on their side, because he was absent for one reason or another.

[QwertyMIDX]

Idomeneus perhaps?

[Avicenna]

No again.

[QwertyMIDX]

OH! Philoctetes with his magic bow and stinking foot.

[Avicenna]

Not just the bow of Hercules, the arrows as well :wink:

[QwertyMIDX]

Yeah, that's true.

Anyway, what was the bloodiest war of the 19th century?

[dracosean]

i would have to go with either the neapolon wars or the franco-prussian war.

[Csargo]

I do believe its the Napoleonic wars.

[QwertyMIDX]

Well, that's really a series of wars, but even so, no.

[matteus the inbred]

I'd have said the Napoleonic wars too, but if not...aha. The Taiping Rebellion 1851-1864?

[Avicenna]

Definitely TaiPing.

Question Matteus?

[matteus the inbred]

ok...this man was the lover of a widowed queen. He was defeated at the battle of Mortimer's Cross and executed in a marketplace. Who was he?

[English assassin]

Owen (sp?) Tudor?

[matteus the inbred]

correct, lost his head in Hereford, where you can still see the memorial in the marketplace...
over to you!

[English assassin]

Oh, right, umm, an easy one: the connection please, between the R100 airship, the Wellington bomber, and the Grand Slam bomb?

[matteus the inbred]

all designed by Barnes Wallis, i assume. He went to the same school as me...

[edyzmedieval]

Good. Over to you Matteus! :book:

[matteus the inbred]

ok, last one from me, it's time someone else had a go!
Which of his battles did the Duke of Wellington always consider to be his finest performance as a general?

[English assassin]

One of his Indian ones, the battle of Assaye (I had to google it for the name, is that against the rules?)

[matteus the inbred]

Assaye is the one...as for rules, pah! I know of no rules.
:rolleyes3:

Googling's fine by me. At this rate the challenge is going to be asking questions that can't be googled! Back to you again then...:book:

[English assassin]

OK, another easy one, what is the name of the small napoleonic coastal fortifications, the majority of which are on the Kent and Sussex coasts, which are named after a similar structure in Corsica which had seriously inconvenienced the Royal Navy?

Many are still standing, and indeed if you are a member of the Landmark Trust you can stay in one.

[Antagonist]

Martello Towers?

Antagonist

[English assassin]

That's it. Over to you

[Antagonist]

Hmm.. well, my imagination for historical questions is probably going to be limited to what I've been reading most recently I'm afraid, but I'll give it a shot.

Who was the first Roman emperor to be killed by non-Roman enemies? (ie not including assassinations, murdered by the Praetorians or killed as a result of civil war)

Antagonist

[Avicenna]

Gordian II.

[Antagonist]

Took me a while to get back to this thread, exams etc.

Anyway, so far as I know Gordian II is not the correct answer. IIRC he died defending Carthage against the rebellious governor of Numidia after his father was declared Emperor along with him. I think.

Anyone else?

Antagonist

[Avicenna]

Emperor Decius

[Antagonist]

Indeed. Killed in battle against the Goths at Abrittus in AD251, so far as I know.

Over to you?

Antagonist

[Avicenna]

Which is the longest lasting civilisation still present today?

[cutepuppy]

Which is the longest lasting civilisation still present today?

australian aboriginals?

[AntiochusIII]

australian aboriginals?Can they be counted as civilization, though? Besides, I don't think the evidence's conclusive.

I think it's China.

[Strike For The South]

Texas

[edyzmedieval]

Texas

Learn to spell correctly.

Greece.

[Avicenna]

Over to Antiochus.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm now feeling guilty for the part in my quote in Strike's sig about spelling. He has some trouble with it, but he get's way too much heat about it. It has improved a lot, he's obviously working at it - succesfully.

I've said it before: for somebody still in high school he is remarkably intelligent and very talented. He obviously has great language skills: in reading, he shows the rare art of grasping the essence of a statement. He is verbally gifted too, you can tell from his wit and the ease and creativity of his languange.

(Sorry Edyz, not a stab at you. I have been as guilty of it)

[Aenlic]

Actually, I think Edyz was making a joke. At least, it seemed that way to me. Strike was being facetious when he answered the question about the longest lasting civilization as being Texas (which elicited a chuckle from me); so, Edyz suggested jokingly that he had misspelled Greece. :wink: Both of them have the sense of humor of youth, which I mourn in my old age. My attempts at youthful humor merely come across as sarcastic and cranky.

Edit: And thinking about it, I think the native people of Australia was a great answer. Mitochondrial DNA evidence suggests that they are the last living descendants of the first wave of human mugration out of Africa, with all the rest of us being descended from a later wave of migration after the population bottleneck. The aborigines have been living in Australia for at least 40,000 years. Only Africa has evidence of older human habitation. Considering their rich art and history, which has existed unchanged for millenia, I'd certainly call them a civilization.

[Louis VI the Fat]

He probably was, Aenlic. I was easing my own conscience, not lecturing.

Over to Antiochus. Bring it on!

[Strike For The South]

Wait... Were suppose to take these fourms seriously?:laugh4:

[edyzmedieval]

I'm now feeling guilty for the part in my quote in Strike's sig about spelling. He has some trouble with it, but he get's way too much heat about it. It has improved a lot, he's obviously working at it - succesfully.

I've said it before: for somebody still in high school he is remarkably intelligent and very talented. He obviously has great language skills: in reading, he shows the rare art of grasping the essence of a statement. He is verbally gifted too, you can tell from his wit and the ease and creativity of his languange.

(Sorry Edyz, not a stab at you. I have been as guilty of it)

I was indeed joking. :inquisitive:

What's the next question? :2thumbsup:

[Aenlic]

You're at bat, Antiochus! Give us a hard one!

[VAE VICTUS]

What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[Craterus]

:inquisitive:

[matteus the inbred]

What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Which of the 74 different species of swallow are you referring to?

Actually it doesn't much matter. Most types of swallow can do roughly 11 metres per second (or about 24 miles per hour).
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

For those with an unhealthy obsession with the stats (and I know there's plenty on these forums), see here
http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/

[Aenlic]

Antiochus! Where are you? We're waiting on a question. Quick before the Monty Python jokes take over and...

Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

[AntiochusIII]

Oh whoops. I forgot. Completely. *shoots himself in the arse*

Who was the author of Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

note: since not just one guy can be attributed to that, one of the people involved is a decent answer.

[Aenlic]

Ooh, ooh, I know!

Luo Guanzhong?

[AntiochusIII]

Ooh, ooh, I know!

Luo Guanzhong?Correct. And it goes to Aenlic! :2thumbsup:

[Aenlic]

OK, this one can either be tough or easy... depending.

There are several current claimants to the title King of Jerusalem. Name the only one who is also a currently ruling monarch.

Bonus question: To what oldest continuously ruling European monarchial dynasty does the styled King of Jerusalem belong? This won't count as the primary question because there are several answers but only one exactly correct one.

[Strike For The South]

Juan Carlos of Spain?

[Aenlic]

Right you are! Juan Carlos of Spain can, by virtue of being the heir to the title King of Naples, style himself King of Jerusalem. He's the only reigning monarch who can. Victor Emmanuel, head of the House of Savoy, and heir to the throne of Italy, can claim the title King of Jerusalem via the Savoyard branch of the Cypriot claim; but he doesn't currently rule. Otto von Hapsburg, current head of the Hapsburg family, can also make the claim, via the Angevin line; but he doesn't currently rule and the Angevins lost Naples to the Aragonese, which is how it got to King Juan Carlos. The only other living descendants of a claimant to the Kingdom of Jerusalem are Carlos, Duke of Calabria, and Prince Ferdinando Maria, Duke of Castro, both Bourbon claimants to the title King of the Two Sicilies, which was nominally given up by the Kings of Spain even though they still claim the title.

You get the next question. Want to take a crack at the bonus question? King Juan Carlos and one other reigning monarch are descendants of the longest continuously ruling family line in Europe, which is the...

[cutepuppy]

Want to take a crack at the bonus question? King Juan Carlos and one other reigning monarch are descendants of the longest continuously ruling family line in Europe, which is the...

As far as I know, the longest continuous ruling family line in Europe is the grimaldi's from monaco. But I'm afraid that Juan carlos doesn't belong to that family.

[Strike For The South]

I got the girmiladis as well. ok hmmmm. Name Texas's first capital

[Aenlic]

I feel like I'm cheating when answering Texas questions since we have to study it so damn often in the schools here, up to and including college; so I'll pass.

As for the longest continually ruling family in Europe. Continuously ruling family, not the family which has ruled in one place the longestin Europe. For that, the Grimaldi's would be correct, at just over 700 years. But far older is the family which has, since its beginning, ruled somewhere in Europe. The correct answer is the Capetians, of which line Juan Carlos is descended. The other current ruler who is a Capetian is Henri, Duke of Luxembourg. Both are currently considered the ruling royals of their respective constitutional monarchies. Both are descended from cadet branches of the Capet line, not necessarily male only. The senior member of the House of Capet is currently Louis Alphonso, Duke of Anjou, who is descended in a direct male line from Hugh Capet and, and thus, under Salic law, is considered the heir to the throne of France. (Legitimist as opposed to Orleanists, who propose the Duke of Paris, whose name I've forgotten for the moment as the correct heir).

[Homo Sapiens]

Do you mean the Republic of Texas? In that case, it would be Washington-on-the-Brazos, which served as capital from March 2 to March 16, 1836.

[Strike For The South]

Aelnic We must enlighten the masses and Homo you are correct

[Avicenna]

Aenlic, does this mean the BBC or whatever it was was incorrect? On a Russian Revolution movie I watched it said that the Romanovs were the oldest ruling family in Europe, at a mere three hundred years. Or are they just looking at passing down to males, as opposed to just keeping it within the family?

[AntiochusIII]

Aenlic, does this mean the BBC or whatever it was was incorrect? On a Russian Revolution movie I watched it said that the Romanovs were the oldest ruling family in Europe, at a mere three hundred years. Or are they just looking at passing down to males, as opposed to just keeping it within the family?The Romanovs certainly weren't. By that time, the Habsburg were much older: since before 1300. If anything, the Capets had been ruling since before 1000 A.D., and then survived in various names. The first major male line, the Capets themselves, ended a decade or so after Philip IV; the successing house, Valois, was also of Capet blood; and so on and so forth with the Bourbons and other branches that come to rule other realms.

[Aenlic]

You must have misheard it or they were making some other point about the Romanov's, Tiberius.

The Grimaldi's of Monaco have the record for the longest current continous rule of any one particular country in Europe, at over 700 years. The Capetians have the record for the longest continuous rule by a family of at least one country somewhere in Europe up to the present. They can trace the line back to Cheribert, a claimant to the throne of Nuestria, and half-brother of the Merovingian king Dagobert I. They first ruled in Europe when King Odo (also called Eudes - grandson of Louis the Pious) was chosen king of the Western Franks and crowned in 888. But they've ruled at least one country somewhere in Europe since Hugh Capet was crowned King of France in 987. That far surpasses any other ruling house. In comparison, the Hapsburgs first ruled the HRE beginning in 1273, the Grimaldi's took Monaco in 1297, the Romanovs no longer rule but their dynasty began in 1613. The Valois and Bourbon dynasties are cadet branches of the House of Capet, by the way.

[Homo Sapiens]

Yes, I win, I win, I win!!!!1!!11!:2thumbsup:

Ah-hem, ok then, name Germany's first overseas colony.

[Antagonist]

IIRC, Namibia (which still has a German community) was the first overseas colony of Germany as a unified state, but I think pre-unification German states had smaller possesions much earlier than that, I think in South America?

Antagonist

[dracosean]

isn't it Nambia

[Homo Sapiens]

Antagonist is on the right track. I'm looking for the first colony founded by Germans, not neccessarily the unified state of Germany.

[dracosean]

is it Germanna?

[Avicenna]

Does the Germans include the French? Technically they are Germans since they're ruled by the Franks, and both the HRE and the Frankish kingdom were originally part of the Frankish kingdom which split. The English as well are kind of German (Angles and Saxons).

By the way, Aenlic: Must have been my rubbish history teacher, then.

[Antagonist]

Well, I assume by "Germans" you mean individual Germans or states such as Brandenberg etc. rather then "Germanics" which would be a lot more vague.

Was it in North Africa then? I had to read something a while back about German emigration in pre-modern times and it said something about a colony in Mauritania, or maybe it was an island nearby. Can't really remember the details though...

Antagonist

[Aenlic]

Well, from what I can find, there seem to be several answers.

German East Africa was founded in 1880 by a German commercial interest; but wasn't under direct control of the German government. It ran inland on the coast across from Zanzibar, including what is now Tanzania, and parts of Rwanda and Burundi; and was protested by the Sultan of Zanzibar, until Germany sent a battleship to Zanzibar and pointed the big guns at the Sultan's palace.

German Southwest Africa was founded in 1884, and came under direct German government control, and constitutes what is now Namibia. It is the first official German government colony

However, in 1681 William Penn had advertisements published in broadsides in Germany recruiting settlers for the newly established colony of Pennsylvania. The first to arrive were some Mennonites from the Ruhr in 1683, followed by more Germans over the years. Francis Pastorius established the German township in 1685 and William Penn signed the official charter for Germantown in 1689, with Pastorius as the bailiff. (Interestingly, Pastorius wrote the first documented protest against Negro slavery in U.S. history in 1688). My own paternal ancestors from further south on the Rhine, south-southwest of Mainz, established a Lutheran community in 1748 further northwest in central Pennsylvania near what is now Beavertown.

So, which one are you looking for, Homo Sapiens? Or do we need to dig back even further?

[Homo Sapiens]

Further back everybody, further back.

[Aenlic]

(scratches head) Well, drat! Back to digging. :oops:

[King Henry V]

It's the Welser Kolonie, also Known as Klein Venedig (little Venice) in South America, which Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor gave to the Welser family of Augsburg as a form of repayment for the huge sums of money they (and also the Fugger family) had lent him so that he could bribe the Electors into choosing him as HRE over Francis I of France.
The area is now known as Venezuela (also from Venice).

[Aenlic]

It's the Welser Kolonie, also Known as Klein Venedig (little Venice) in South America, which Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor gave to the Welser family of Augsburg as a form of repayment for the huge sums of money they (and also the Fugger family) had lent him so that he could bribe the Electors into choosing him as HRE over Francis I of France.
The area is now known as Venezuela (also from Venice).

I'd never heard of the Welser colony until you made this post. Very interesting stuff. Apparently Bartholmeus Welser gave a reported 12 tons (!!!) of gold to the emperor. That's just staggering. No wonder he was given permission to fund and settle the colony in Venezuela. His son, Marc, was also somewhat notable, as a correspondent of Galilleo's.

Is this the correct answer, Homo Sapiens? If so, kudos to King Henry V!

Edit: doing some quick conversions here. If that 12 tons of gold was in short tons, then that would be roughly 350,000 troy ounces. At today's price of $611 US per troy ounce, Welser gave Charles V the equivalent of $213 million US. And that's just using today's final gold price. For the 16th century that's just outrageously rich! And he gave it away!

[Homo Sapiens]

Congratulations King Henry V, you are correct!

[Avicenna]

:horn:

"It's done, everyone!! The hardest question posed is SOLVED!! Over to King Henry V!"
[Lunatic proceeds to shout the odd "Hallelujah", before falling off the balcony and into oblivion]

:sweatdrop:

So, yeah...

[Avicenna]

:horn:

"It's done, everyone!! The hardest question posed is SOLVED!! Over to King Henry V!"
[Lunatic proceeds to shout the odd "Hallelujah", before falling off the balcony and into oblivion]

:sweatdrop:

So, yeah...

+1

[King Henry V]

Who was the first person to break light up into different colours?

[Aenlic]

If you mean the first person to realize that the colors of the spectrum were all components of light rather than produced by the object, such as a prism, which caused the spectrum, then the answer is Newton. The ancient Greeks, and probably many others knew about the rainbow and spectra in general; but they connected the phenomenon to the object which produced it rather than light itself. It was Newton who showed that light itself consisted of all of the colors. He was able to consistently produce a spectrum from white light using prisms and then recombine the colors using another prism back into white light. Newton called it "corpuscular" in his book, Optiks. While not entirely correct, since he viewed light as being composed of different size particles; it was thus, the first scientific explanation of light as particles. The answer, of course, is much more complicated.

[Sarmatian]

Probably some DJ from England :laugh4:

[King Henry V]

If you mean the first person to realize that the colors of the spectrum were all components of light rather than produced by the object, such as a prism, which caused the spectrum, then the answer is Newton. The ancient Greeks, and probably many others knew about the rainbow and spectra in general; but they connected the phenomenon to the object which produced it rather than light itself. It was Newton who showed that light itself consisted of all of the colors. He was able to consistently produce a spectrum from white light using prisms and then recombine the colors using another prism back into white light. Newton called it "corpuscular" in his book, Optiks. While not entirely correct, since he viewed light as being composed of different size particles; it was thus, the first scientific explanation of light as particles. The answer, of course, is much more complicated.
I am looking for the first to break up light with a prism, but isn't Newton. Much, much earlier (after Antiquity, though).

[Aenlic]

Hmm, OK. I think I know. I'll let someone else give it a shot first. Good question!

[Antagonist]

A fairly random guess: Leonardo Da Vinci? I vaguely recall the seperation of the spectrum as one of several phenomena said to have been discovered by him, but attributed to later scientists because his notes are so famously obscure and cryptic that it was not realised until much later what he was actually saying.

...That might just as easily be wacky "Da Vinci = Greatest Man in History" propaganda though.

Antagonist

[King Henry V]

No, the man I am looking for was earlier than da Vinci. He was an astounding teacher.

[Aenlic]

Although, a case can be made that the teacher's teacher, a bishop and school chancellor, was the one who did the initial experiments which were then merely continued. And there are some contemporaries, a Sufi from Shiraz and a Dominican theologian from Germany, who also did almost exactly the same work at almost exactly the same time.

Now...

Given those three hints, who is going to provide the answer to King Henry V's wonderful question?

[Perplexed]

Is it Roger Bacon?

[King Henry V]

Correct, also known as the Doctor Mirabilis, or astounding teacher.

[Aenlic]

I still think it's possible that Bacon's teacher and mentor, Robert Grosseteste, was the actual source of Bacon's knowledge. He was the Chancellor of Oxford and head of Greyfriars there and Bishop of Lincoln and Bacon's main teacher. He wrote a treatise called De Iride sometime before 1235 on the properties of the rainbow before Bacon wrote his own Opus Majus in 1267. In De Natura Lacorum, Grosseteste has a diagram showing light being refracted through a spherical flask of water. This is exactly the same method Bacon used to demonstrate the properties of the rainbow.

The other two possibilities were:

Theodoric of Freiburg, a Dominican theologian and scientist, who used glass spheres of water to break up light into the rainbow and gave an accurate explanation for primary and secondary rainbows in a work pulished in 1307.

Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi was a Sufi from Shiraz in Persia who also wrote a detailed explanation of how a rainbow is formed at around the same time as Theodoric.

But Roger Bacon is the one who actually widely published the science in the experiment; so to him goes the acknowledgement!

Well done Perplexed. What is your question?

[Perplexed]

Alright, an easy one:

I'm looking for a 7th century intellectual who was and still is hailed by the title "father of _____" (fill in the blank). He was famous throughout Europe for his wide-ranging knowledge on many subjects, including theology, history, and mathematics.

[Avicenna]

I've spent a good half hour searching and can't find him.

Closest I can get is Sir Francis Bacon, father of the scientific method, except for the fact that he's a 17th century intellectual.

[Antagonist]

Sounds tricky. I can think of several people around the 7th Century AD who contributed in one of those fields or other, but all of them?

My first thought was Muhammad - the Father of Islam - who is well-known in Europe and everywhere else, but I don't think he was a historian or a mathematician...

St. Bede the Venerable? He was a pretty accomplished historian and theologian, and I think his influence spread beyond Britain. I think he has been called the Father of English History, too. He would be my guess...

Antagonist

[Perplexed]

St. Bede the Venerable?

Right. It was the best I could come up with on short notice, sorry if the hints weren't clear enough.

[Craterus]

I so nearly said Bede, but didn't he die in 793AD (end of the eighth century)?

[Perplexed]

I so nearly said Bede, but didn't he die in 793AD (end of the eighth century)?

He was born in the late seventh, but died within the first half of the eighth, so I decided to say seventh, which was probably a bad idea. :embarassed: Sorry about any confusion.

[Antagonist]

He did indeed die in the 8th Century IIRC, but quite a bit earlier then 793.

Antagonist

EDIT: I had a question, but double-checking a detail about it on the internet seems to suggest that the book I'm reading makes quite a contentious claim that isn't accepted by most historians, so I'll have to think of something else...

EDIT2: First edit took so long that I didn't notice Perplexed's clarification. Sorry.

[Craterus]

Not to worry, on with the questions! ~D

[Antagonist]

Sorry about this, had a busy day. I really thought I had a great question there, but nevermind. Don't want to leave it any longer though, so here's another fairly easy one off the top of my head from another recently finished book:

To whom is usually attributed the "invention" of the Highland Charge tactic, made famous during the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745?

Antagonist

[Aenlic]

No one else? Well then...

Being a big fan of the band Clannad, and having just finished listening to the album Lore which has a song about the man on it, I'll give the answer:

Alasdair MacColla

[Antagonist]

Yes indeed. Quite a formidable fellow it would seem.

(Although truth be told "pioneer" is probably a more appropriate word, I don't think one can "invent" a military tradition that apparently existed in some form for millenia)

Anyway, Aenlic's question. :idea2:

Antagonist

[Aenlic]

An aside about MaColla before I ask my question. He died at the age of 27. Rather amazing accomplishments in his life for one who died so young. Which book are you reading, Antagonist? I found Stevenson's Highland Warrior: Alasdair MacColla and the Civil Wars for a great price at a local used bookstore; but I thought I'd ask someone who might have read it first.

My question. Hmmm...

Who is generally credited as having first said, Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset?

Bonus questions: Which military leader posed the problem which received that response (and is also credited by some as being the source of the response), in what year, at what town, in what "war"?

[Strike For The South]

Kill'em all, and let God sort'em out" is adopted by the Marines and the Green Berets. I think it derives from "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset", or "Kill them all. God will know His own.". This was a misunderstood reference to 2 Tim. 2:19 which in part reads, "The Lord knoweth them that are his". I think this comes from around 1210AD, when Pope Innocent III unleashed "orders of fire and sword" against heretics throughout Europe. In this process there was a terrible massacre at the city Beziers, where it was thought that over 100,000 people were killed. After that city where taken, they had captured over 450 "heretics", but many of them claimed to be good Catholics. The quote is believed to be first used here, when they killed all the "heretics". It did not matter if they killed good people, because if one led a godly life, God would know of it, and the reward would be eternal paradise anyway.

[Aenlic]

Very close, StrikefortheSouth, but I need a name! The name of the person most often attributed as the source of the phrase. And the bonus questions of who the military leader was, what city, what year (the year in your quote there is slightly in error, SftS), and the name of the "War".

[Antagonist]

Not 100% sure, but I believe the answer is Arnaud Amaury (or something like that) The year was AD 1209 at the seige of Beziers during the Albigensian Crusade against the oh-so-heretical Cathars. I recall the phrase being attributed to several people, but the above is what I was told. He was the Papal Legate overseeing the whole thing IIRC.

Antagonist

[Aenlic]

You are correct!

The military leader sometimes attributed as the source was Simon IV de Montfort; but Arnaud-Amaury, abbot and head of the Cistercians order and the Papal Legate and spiritual advisor to the Albigensian Crusade, was the more likely source. The date and location are correct, as well. The siege of Beziers, on July 22nd, 1209.

Estimates put the slaughter at Beziers at somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 men, women and children, most of whom were not Cathars at all (one source puts the estimate of Cathars as about 200 at most). Simon de Montfort was disputably one of the most vicious and bloodthirsty people ever to lead a supposedly religious army. Even the instigator of the crusade, Pope Innocent III, chastised him for killing innocent civilians at one point.

There's a wonderful web site with the salient details and a great bibliography of sources here: http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/albigens.htm

Your question, Antagonist?

[Archayon]

You are correct!

The military leader sometimes attributed as the source was Simon IV de Montfort; but Arnaud-Amaury, abbot and head of the Cistercians order and the Papal Legate and spiritual advisor to the Albigensian Crusade, was the more likely source. The date and location are correct, as well. The siege of Beziers, on July 22nd, 1209.

Estimates put the slaughter at Beziers at somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 men, women and children, most of whom were not Cathars at all (one source puts the estimate of Cathars as about 200 at most). Simon de Montfort was disputably one of the most vicious and bloodthirsty people ever to lead a supposedly religious army. Even the instigator of the crusade, Pope Innocent III, chastised him for killing innocent civilians at one point.

There's a wonderful web site with the salient details and a great bibliography of sources here: http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/albigens.htm

Your question, Antagonist?


*edit* somewhat altered view, thx Aenlic for comment.

would like to add
It was Caesarius von Heisterbach, who wrote it down in his Dialogus Miraculorum, 1219-1223. (he died in 1240). He wrote Arnaud (or Amelric) Amaury, Papal Legate and spiritual leader of the Albigensian Crusade, spoke these legendary words at Béziers, date mentioned above.

"legendary" is an important word here: it is believed by many specialists A.A. might never have spoken these words. A good book on it is (for the ones of you who do know French):

Tuez-les tous Dieu reconnaîtra les siens. Le massacre de Béziers et la croisade des Albigeois vus par Césaire de Heisterbach, by Jacques Berlioz (Loubatières, 1994).

it was a fine question after all...


:idea2: Arch

[Aenlic]

It may be commonly agreed in the sources which you have, my friend, that the words were never spoken. And yet, EVERY source I have seen says it was Abbot Arnaud-Amaury, with one saying it may have been Simon IV de Montfort instead. The word "legendary" does not necessarily imply imaginary. Eric Clapton is a legendary guitar player; and yet, he would argue with you that he most certainly exists. As you have pointed out, the phrase was written down only a decade or so years after the fact. That hardly makes it a matter of ancient legend and debate. In fact, I'd say that having the attribution made only 10 years after the fact makes it rather more certain than if it had been merely word of mouth traditionally passed down over many centuries. Wouldn't you agree? :wink:

And if you'll take the time to look back at my original question, you'll then find that I did not ask "who said" it. I asked "who is generally credited with having first said it" which is something quite different. I am not claiming that it is an absolute fact; but neither am I claiming, as you are, that it didn't happen. One should be very careful making absolute statements when regarding events which may or may not have taken place, especially when they happened (or did not happen) 800 years ago. :smile:

[Archayon]

Agree.

I can't put up many arguments anymore. I should read that book again ;)
About Caesarius v Heisterbach: although it was in the same time, he was German and he wrote his work there. That's the argument some people use to doubt if the words were actually spoken, if i remember well.

You are absolutely right about claiming absolute statements. I can follow you in that. I altered the view :bow:

Next question please?

[Aenlic]

Agreed, Archayon. In fact, I think our views are probably much closer than it would appear from our posts. My post came off much harsher than I intended, I think. :bow:

There is, as I recall, an account written by one of the actual members of the crusade. I don't recall the name, but I think he was from Normandy, perhaps. I'm certain that he did not mention any such statement; which is a point in favor of it not having happened. As far as I know, all other accounts are apocryphal; which does indeed call into question the veracity of the statement. That's why I was careful not to imply that it actually happened in my question. It is such a wonderfully apt statement for a crusader to make for the period - especially considering the circumstances of that horrible event; so I made it a question.


Let's have a tough question now, Antagonist! Something to stimulate the few active brain cells remaining to me from my misspent youth in the 70's.

[Aenlic]

Antagonist! Where are you? We need a question. Something good to keep poor StrikefortheSouth out of trouble. :wink:

[Antagonist]

Many apologies, I've had a busy few days (Yesterday I was fatally injured during a sword-fight with a good-looking young man on top of a giant blimp, last week I was eaten by crocodiles, tomorrow's some anime thing etc., antagonism's a demanding line of work) *cough* Regardless of what I was really doing, I haven't had much time to think about this. This is the kind of time one wishes for command of some obscure subject from which one could draw forth fiendishly difficult questions, but sadly I don't have that.

So I must once again recourse to recent reading: What was the last battle in Western history in which cavalry played a significant role on both sides?

Apologies again,

Antagonist

[Csargo]

My guess would be WW1 but I'm not sure.

[Avicenna]

Nah, cavalry was pretty much utterly useless up against the machine-guns, rifles and artillery. It's not a battle, anyway.

Hmm, I'm not sure. The latest reference to cavalry in modern-ish history I can find is in 1911, during the Italo-Turkish war. The Arabic mobile cavalry of the Ottomans encircled the Italians, and came out victorious. The battle was near Tripoli, but I'm not sure about the name. Is it the battle of Tobruk?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Battle of Komarów, Polish cavalry defeated Bolshevik cavalry.

[Antagonist]

Correct!

(Well, probably. It stuck me as the kind of trivia in which the generally accepted answer may not necessarily be the correct one) According to my sources and the Internet, the Battle of Komarów in 1920 is the correct answer. Some Western countries such as Poland continued to use cavalry in a limited role beyond this date, but that was apparently the last battle in which both sides used them in substantial numbers.

We now go live to the Supreme Palace of Tyranny on the Red Planet, from which we are anxiously anticipating the announcement of the next question:

Antagonist

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Thank God for Military History magazine!

Alright...let's see...

On June 29th, 1922, the Government of France granted 100 hectares at Vimy Ridge "freely, and for all time, the free use of the land exempt from all taxes" to which country?

[Pannonian]

Thank God for Military History magazine!

Alright...let's see...

On June 29th, 1922, the Government of France granted 100 hectares at Vimy Ridge "freely, and for all time, the free use of the land exempt from all taxes" to which country?
Canada?

[Csargo]

Yeah its Canada.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Canada?
Correct. Bonus points if you can tell me what the land was used for.

[Pannonian]

Correct. Bonus points if you can tell me what the land was used for.
Cemetery? Land was granted at key points by the French and Belgian governments to the allied nations for use as war cemeteries, with the host government providing maintenance Although 100 hectares seems a bit big for that purpose.

Googling, I see that it was set up as a memorial park.

I've used this question elsewhere, let's see if anyone here can get it. An additional clue is Goats. Another clue is military song lyrics.


A friend of princes, and a would be King. I was among the most powerful men my people have seen, yet I died poor, spurned by my protege. I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation. Who am I?

[Csargo]

Correct. Bonus points if you can tell me what the land was used for.

It was a memorial I think.:book:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It was a memorial I think.:book:
https://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7271/memorial0pl.jpg

[Csargo]

Thanks for clearing that up evil maniac its a really big memorial.

[Csargo]

Pannonian I have no idea what the answer is could you give another clue.

[Pannonian]

Pannonian I have no idea what the answer is could you give another clue.
His people are talked about in the Rome forums ad nauseam. Also, note the clue

I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation.

Which tells you that his people were famously charmless landlubbers who were involved in a Great Rivalry at some point. Let me add the clue that this Great Rivalry was with a famously charming seafaring nation.

[edyzmedieval]

His people are talked about in the Rome forums ad nauseam. Also, note the clue

I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation.

Which tells you that his people were famously charmless landlubbers who were involved in a Great Rivalry at some point. Let me add the clue that this Great Rivalry was with a famously charming seafaring nation.

Carthaginians? :balloon2:

[Pannonian]

Carthaginians? :balloon2:
Were the Carthaginians a famously charming sea-faring nation? Did the man who ended the Rome-Carthage rivalry use charm and naval warfare to do so?

Looking at the 1st page of the Monastery, I see a number of threads about the geographic area where this Great Rivalry took place, including at least one started by yourself.

[edyzmedieval]

The only answer could be: Greeks. :balloon2:

[Pannonian]

The only answer could be: Greeks. :balloon2:
So use the clues to find the country, find the events, then find the individual. Posters talk about his people all the time, and the reputation of his people is such that their name has even become an adjective. I've seen at least one poster in one of your threads who named himself after them.

[edyzmedieval]

So use the clues to find the country, find the events, then find the individual. Posters talk about his people all the time, and the reputation of his people is such that their name has even become an adjective. I've seen at least one poster in one of your threads who named himself after them.

Spartans, Thermopylae, King Leonidas? :book:

[Pannonian]

Spartans, Thermopylae, King Leonidas? :book:
A friend of princes, and a would be King. I was among the most powerful men my people have seen, yet I died poor, spurned by my protege. I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation. Who am I?

You'll need to find omeone who fits the clues. IE. someone who was famously charming, and who carried out a decisively successful naval campaign. Also someone who was hugely powerful among his people, and yet was not a King, but was the friend of princes (plural).

Another clue is that his people reached the peak of their power as a result of his campaigns, but his protege threw it all away in pursuit of a vendetta. These are some pretty well-known names in ancient history, with the subject appearing in the lyrics of one of the best known military songs in the world.

If you get his people right, the fact that he achieved power despite not being King narrows the field considerably. If you think you've got the right country, google or wiki for significant wars involving this country, and you'll find their opponent. Then look for who was responsible for ending the war, and you'll have the right man.

[edyzmedieval]

Gimme one more clue. Period: Antiquity, Medieval, Rebirth(16th to 19th century), Modern.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Pericles?

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Heres some quotes from a wikipedia article on Pericles


[Pericles or Perikles (ca. 495 BC-429 BC, Greek: Περικλῆς, meaning "surrounded by glory") was a prominent and influential statesman, orator and general of Athens during the city's Golden Age (specifically, between the Persian and Peloponnesian wars). He was a descendant of the renowned Alcmaeonidae family.

/QUOTE]

Note that it said GENERAL


Pericles made his first military excursions during the First Peloponnesian War

QUOTE]The Samian War was the last important military event before the Peloponnesian War. After Thucydides' ostracism, Pericles was being continuously re-elected to the generalship, the only office he ever officially occupied,

He was re-elected as general.

he also lead Athens to greatness by expanding their "golden age"

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

[QUOTE=Pannonian] A friend of princes, and a would be King. I was among the most powerful men my people have seen, yet I died poor, spurned by my protege. I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation. Who am I?QUOTE]

he was among the most powerful men in Greece, he was spurned by prestige of a powerful Athens. The great rivalry between Athens and Sparta. His peoples reputation as founders of democrocy and sciences

[edyzmedieval]

charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation

Wrong with Perikles. The Greeks were renowned seafarers.

[Pannonian]

Heres some quotes from a wikipedia article on Pericles

He was re-elected as general.

he also lead Athens to greatness by expanding their "golden age"
This man's people were famously charmless landlubbers, but he himself was a famous charmer and a successful admiral who led them to victory over a famously charming sea-faring nation. For Pericles to be the man, Athens would have had to have been a famously charmless society with a traditionally land-based military, who led them to victory over a traditionally sea-faring enemy.

Edzymedieval: I've already said this is ancient history.

[Pannonian]

Wrong with Perikles. The Greeks were renowned seafarers.
Not all of them. This man's country was notoriously inept at sea.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Spartan admirals would be my guesses so heres some spartan admirals i found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callicratidas


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander

[Aenlic]

Lysander

[Aenlic]

Lysander

EDIT: dang. Hannibal99 beat me to it. Good job, Hannibal99.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

so was it right? and thanks aenlic

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Some evidence:

QUOTE]A friend of princes, and a would be King. I was among the most powerful men my people have seen, yet I died poor, spurned by my protege. I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation. Who am I?[/QUOTE] he was the de facto spartan leader of hid fleet. He was among the Spartans, the most powerful the greeks had seen. He ended the Peloponessian War, the Great Rivalry through charming the kings and winning naval battles. the exact reverse of the land based Spartan armies

[Pannonian]

Lysander
Correct

A friend of princes, and a would be King.
A friend of Cyrus the Younger of Persia (whom Xenophon served in to his Anabasis) and Agesilaus of Sparta (who was Xenophon's patron in later life). After a career marked by limits on his power due to not being a King, he was said to have prepared a speech appealing to Sparta to allow people outside the 2 royal houses to compete for the Kingship, with himself in mind, but died in battle before he could deliver it. The speech was destroyed by Agesilaus as a threat to the state.

I was among the most powerful men my people have seen, yet I died poor,
He had access to probably the greatest riches any Spartan had ever seen, but kept none of it for himself. After his death, a number of suitors wooed his daughter expecting to inherit his wealth as a dowry, but withdrew when they learned it did not exist. They were charged and fined for frivolous proposal.

spurned by my protege.
When Agis died, Sparta had to choose as successor between his son Leotychidas and his brother Agesilaus. Then current was a prophecy warning against a "crippled kingship". This seemed to rule out Agesilaus, who was lame at birth and only escaped being thrown into the chasm due to his royal status (but who had since overcome his disability and passed the agoge). But Lysander interpreted it to mean a metaphorical cripple, alluding to the rumour that Leotychides' father was not King Agis, but the Athenian Alcibiades. The Ephors agreed with Lysander, and chose Agesilaus as King. However, he was not to enjoy his protege's elevation, as, irritated by foreigners' assumption that he was Lysander's puppet, Agesilaus froze Lysander out of Spartan society.

I ended the Great Rivalry through charm and through water, the exact reverse of my people's reputation.
The Great Rivalry was between Sparta, a traditionally land-based nation famous for its lack of charm and seamanship (Thucydides alludes acidly to the former), and Athens, a traditionally sea-based nation famous for its orators and admirals. Lysander used his friendship with Cyrus to provide him with money to buy any unaligned Greeks the Athenians were using as crew, and pursued other diplomatic initiatives to woo away other Athenian allies. This crippled the Athenian fleet, and combined with a traditional land campaign (suggested by Alcibiades) threatened the Athenians' food supply. This food supply from the Crimea was decisively cut when the last Athenian fleet in being was destroyed at Aegospotami (Goat's Creek), and Athens itself was forced to capitulate after a siege. This ended the Pelopponesian war in Sparta's favour, and marked the high point in Spartan power.

Another clue is that his people reached the peak of their power as a result of his campaigns, but his protege threw it all away in pursuit of a vendetta.
Agesilaus pursued a feud with Thebes after being insulted at a conference by the Theban delegate Epaminondas, the dispute resulting in Leuctra, Mantinea, the liberation of the Messenians and the subsequent collapse of Spartan power.

with the subject appearing in the lyrics of one of the best known military songs in the world.
1st verse of The British Grenadiers, probably the best known British military song, often used to represent the British military in general.

Some talk of Alexander, some talk of Hercules
Of Hector and Lysander, and such great names as these
But of all the world's great heroes, there's none that can compare
With a tow-row-row, row-row-row, to the British Grenadier

More about the Spartans

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/n-s/spartans3.html

I see that Aenlic has conceded to Hannibal99, even though he didn't choose between Callicratidas and Lysander. So it's Hannibal's turn.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

YES i was right, but i got the facts screwed up lol

[Aenlic]

You still had Lysander in your sights before me and posted it sooner as well, Hannibal99. Ask the next question! Make it another hard one. Pannonian's question had me digging books out of the back of my closet that I haven't read in years. Now, I have a pile of books to reread! :grin:

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Thanks Aenlic,

Well this is a document describing a 2 kings and battle. I will be editing it to take out things that give the answers away. its an ancient egyptian document.

ok here it is:


1. The twenty-first year, the twenty-first day of Tybi,[1] in the reign of King BLANK,[2] approved by the Sun, Son of the Sun, BLANK,[3] endowed with life eternal and for ever; lover of AMEN-RA, HARmAcHu, PTAH of Memphis, MAUT Lady of Asheru, and CHENsu-NEFERHoTEP; invested upon the throne of HoRus, among the living, like his father HARmACHU, eternally and for ever.

2. On this day behold His Majesty was in the city of the House of BLANK making propitiations to his father AMEN-RA, to HARmAcHu, to AToM Lord of On, to AMEN of Ramessu-Meriamen, to PTAH of Ramessu-Meriamem, to SuTEcH the most glorious son of NUT; may they grant him an eternity of thirty-years' festivals, an infinity of years of peace, all lands, all nations, being bowed down beneath his feet for ever.

3. There came a royal Herald (nearly a whole line is erased here; the sellsc is, two royal Heralds came, bringing a tablet of silver, which)

4. the Grand-Duke of Kheta,[4] KHETA-sIRA, had sent to the King to beg for peace of King RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, Son of the Sun, RAmEssu-MERIAmEN, endowed with life for ever and ever, like his father the Sun continually. Copy of the plate of silver which the Grand-Duke of Kheta, KHETAsIRA, sent to the King by the hand of his Herald

5. TARTIsBu, and his Herald BLANK, to beg for peace of His Majesty RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, Son of the Sun, RAmEssu-MERIAmEN, Chief' of rulers, whose boundaries extend to every land at his pleasure, the covenant made by the Grand-Duke of ICheta, KHETAsIRA, the puissant, son of MARASARA,

6. the Grand-Duke of Kheta, the puissant, grandson of SAPALALA, the Grand-Duke of Kheta, the puissant; upon the plate of silver, with RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt, the puissant, son of RAmEN-mA (Seti Meneptah I) the great ruler of Egypt, the puissant, grandson of RA-MEN-PERU (Ramessu I).

7. the great ruler of Egypt, the puissant : The good conditions of peace and fraternity ... to eternity, which were aforetime from eternity. This was an arrangement of the great ruler of Egypt with the great Prince of Kheta, by way of covenant, that god might cause no hostility to arise between them ! Now it happened

8. in the time of MAuTENARA, the Grand-Duke of Kheta, my brother, that he fought with... the great ruler of Egypt. But thus it shall be henceforth, even from this day-Behold; KHETAsIRA the Grand-Duke of Kheta, covenants to adhere to the arrangement made by the Sun, made by SuTEcH, concerning the land of Egypt,

9. with the land of Kheta, to cause no hostility to arise between them for ever. Behold, this it is--KHETAsIRA the Grand-Duke of Kheta covenants with RA-USER-mA, approved by the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt from this day forth, that good peace and good brotherhood shall be between us for ever.

10. He shall fraternize with me, he shall be at peace with me, and I will fraternize with him, I will be at peace with him for ever. It happened in the time of MAUTENARA the Grand-Duke of Kheta, my brother, after his decease, KHETAsIRA sat as

ll. Grand-Duke of Kheta upon the throne of his father--Behold I am at one in heart with RAmEssu-MERIAmEN, the great ruler of Egypt... of peace, of brotherhood; it shall be better than the peace and the brotherhood, which was before this. Behold, I the Grand-Duke of Kheta with

12. RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt, am in good peace, in good brotherhood ; the children's children of the Grand-Duke of Kheta shall be in good brotherhood and peace with the children's children of RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt, As our (treaty) of brotherhood, and our arrangements

13. (made for the land of Egypt) with the land of Kheta, so to them also shall be peace and brotherhood for ever; there shall no hostility arise between them for ever. The Grand-Duke of Kheta shall not invade the land of Egypt for ever, to carry away anything from it; nor shall RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt invade the land

14. of Kheta for ever to carry away anything from it for ever. The treaty of alliance which was even from the time of SAPALALA the Grand-Duke of Kheta, as well as the treaty of alliance which was in the time of MATENARA (Mura-sara) the Grand-Duke of Kheta my father, if I fulfill it, behold RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt shall fulfill it

15. ....together with us, in each case, even from this day, we will fulfill it, executing the design of alliance. If any enemy shall come to the lands of RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt, and he shall send to the Grand Duke of Kheta saying, Come and give me help against him, then shall the Grand-Duke of Kheta

16. ....the grand-Duke of Kheta to smite the enemy; but if it be that the Grand-Duke of Kheta shall not come (himself), he shall send his infantry and his cavalry... to smite his enemy... of the anger of RAmEssu-MERIAmE

17. ....the slaves of the gates, and they shall do any damage to him, and he shall go to smite them, then shall the Grand-Duke of Kheta together with...

18. ....to come to help to smite his enemies, if it shall please RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt to go,he shall...

19. ....to return all answer to the land of Kheta. But if the servants of the Grand-Duke of Kheta shall invade him, namely RAmEssu-MERIAmEN ....

(Lines 20 and 21 are nearly erased.)

22. from the lands of RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt and they shall come to the Grand-Duke of Kheta, then shall the Grand-Duke of Kheta not receive them, but the Grand-Duke of Kheta shall send them to RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt...

23. ....and they shall come to the land of Kheta to do service to any one, they shall not be added to the land of . Kheta, they shall be given up to RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt. Or if there shall pass over...

24. ....coming from the land of Kheta, and they shall come to RAmEssu-MERIAmEN the great ruler of Egypt, then shall not RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt...

25. ....and they shall come to the land of Egypt to do service of any sort, then shall not RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt, claim them; he shall cause them to be given up to the Grand-Duke of Kheta... .

26. ....the tablet of silver, it is declared by the thousand

gods, the gods male (warriors), the gods female, those which are of the land of Kheta, in concert with the thousand gods, the gods male, the gods female, those which are of the land of Egypt, those...

27. ....SuTEcH of Kheta, SuTEch ofthe city ofA.... SuTEcH of the city of Taaranta, SUTEcH of the city of Pairaka, SuTEcH of the city of Khisasap, SuTEcH of the city of Sarasu, SuTEch of the city of Khira(bu), SUTEcH....

28. ....SuTEcH of the city of Sarapaina, AsTARATA of Kheta, the god of Taitatkherri, the god of Ka....

29. ....the goddess of the city of.....the goddess of Tain...., the god of.....

30. of the hills of the rivers of the land of Kheta, the gods of the land of Kheta, the gods of the land of Tawatana, AMEN the Sun, SuTEcH, the gods male, the gods female, of the hills, the rivers of the land of Egypt, the... the the great sea, the winds, the clouds. These words

31. which are on the tablet of silver of the land of Kheta, and of the land of Egypt, Whosoever shall not observe them, the thousand gods of the land of Kheta, in concert with the thousand gods of the land of Egypt shall be (against) his house, his family, his servants. But whosoever shall observe these words which are in the tablet of silver, be he of Kheta....

32. ....the thousand gods of the land of Kheta, in concert with the thousand gods of the land of Egypt shall give health, shall give life to his (family) together with . himself together with his servants. If there shall pass over one man of the (land of Egypt) or two, or three

33. (and they shall go to the land of Kheta then shall the Grand-Duke of Kheta cause them to be) given up again to RA-USER-mA, approved of the Sun, the great ruler of Egypt, but whosoever shall be given up to BLANK, the great ruler of Egypt,

34. let not his crime be set up against him let not... himself, his wives, his children...... If there shall pass over a man from the land of Kheta be it one only be it two, be it three, and they come to RA-usER-mA, approved of the Sun

35. the great ruler of Egypt let the great ruler of Egypt seize (them and cause them to be) given up to the Grand-Duke of Kheta (but whosoever shall be delivered up... ) himself his wives, his children, moreover let him not be smitten to death, moreover let him not (suffer ?)

36. in his eyes, in his mouth, in his feet, moreover let not any crime be set up against him. That which is upon the tablet of silver upon its front side is the likeness of the figure of SuTEcH... of SuTEcH the great ruler of heaven, the director of the made by KHETAsIRA the great ruler

37. of Kheta...

38. ....

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

ill give you some tips:

This is during the Pharaonic period
Copies still exist
It is hung in a very important place

[Avicenna]

The Battle of Kadesh's resulting peace treaty between the Hittites and victorious Egyptians.

Kings are Pharaoh Ramses II and King Hattusilis III of the Hittites.

It is hung in the UN building in NY, USA.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

dang have you read it before?

[edyzmedieval]

It's easy man, because Qadesh is a famous battle, and many people know about it. :book:

[Avicenna]

I did a bit of searching ~;)

You used www.allaboutturkey.com didn't you? :tongue:

My question now I guess.

[Aenlic]

Tiberius! Quit screwing around and ask another question! I'm up late, because the people across the street think that 1:30 in the morning on the 5th of July is the appropriate time to be celebrating yesterday's holiday with fireworks. :inquisitive: