View Full Version : Damn Oblivion to HELL!!!
Rosacrux redux
05-02-2006, 10:38
I hereby place a course on all thee who actually convinced me to buy that unspeakable game! Damn thee all!
Several days ago I asked some guys at a relevant topic wether I should invest some of my hard-earned money into Oblivion... and they said sure, go ahead, you won't regret it. You bloody :furious3: !!!!
I did buy that game. And installed it. And played it. And played some more. And resisted the temptation to shut it down and continue some of my hard work (to make a decent living, I got to write at home too...). And I played some more. And I had to repel my wife who came nagging about why I play games instead of taking her out. And played some more. And before I know it, my spouse was sleaping, the clock hit the 3 in the morning mark and I still wanted to play on!!!!:wall:
A few days have passed. I am fighting hordes of daedra, goblins, bandits, vampires, my wife, my work deadline, my social life... so much fight... I fear I am gonna end up :skull:
And that's not all... this creeping abomination, that Oblivion, has been installed onto me hard drive... and now won't go! I tried exorcism, tried the reiki, the mantras, holy water... to no avail! It's here to stay! It won't go no matter what!
HELP ME! :help:
Somebody Else
05-02-2006, 11:18
I know the feeling...
It's when you rack up over ten level 20 characters that you know there's a problem. But... every new mod demands a new character... Every dungeon needs to be crawled. Just have to find that last item of armour to complete a set... One more quest to be master of x guild...
I'm thinking of hiding the disc somewhere so I can get some revision done...
Sjakihata
05-02-2006, 13:56
Well, I think the game suck and don't want to play it. I played 5 hours top and never been playing it ever since - do you want an extra CD Rosacrux, in case yours breaks?
Rosacrux redux
05-02-2006, 14:21
Well, I think the game suck and don't want to play it. I played 5 hours top and never been playing it ever since - do you want an extra CD Rosacrux, in case yours breaks?
A happy man! Praise the Lord, there is still hope, people can resist this malady! :idea2:
P.S. Do you think I wouldn't back up my DVD? If it'd brake, I'd die off some sort of privative syndrome :sweatdrop:
The Wizard
05-02-2006, 16:38
Humph, after the let-down titled "Morrowind" I am very sceptical regarding the Elder Scrolls.
Samurai Waki
05-02-2006, 17:28
I was sorely addicted to Oblivion when I first bought it. But I haven't touched it in about a month. Just too much other stuff to do.
Once all your saves become corrupt, you wont want to play anymore. The game is in desperate need of a patch, but Betheseda is doing the unthinkable, they actually have the testosteronial power to charge money for it!
screwtype
05-03-2006, 01:44
What I find staggering is the amount of advertising for this game. Everywhere I go there's an ad for it. There's even a billboard campaign here, It seems like every second billboard has another ad for Oblivion plastered all over it.
It must be costing them a fortune!
Zalmoxis
05-03-2006, 01:47
They need to spread propaganda.
They released an "offical" mod recently, it cost a couple of dollars. All it did was add armor to the horses. There charging us money becasue they produced a bug induced game on steriods. Thanks Bethseda.
screwtype
05-03-2006, 02:04
They need to spread propaganda.
LOL.
Humph, after the let-down titled "Morrowind" I am very sceptical regarding the Elder Scrolls.
It is a much better game, it isn't nearly as lifeless as Morrowind. Basicly, it rules.
Steppe Merc
05-03-2006, 12:02
What? How can people not only be bad mouthing Oblivion but also Morrowind? I think both are incredible games, despite the trouble I had setting my game to actually play on my computer. I hate the fact that Bethesda is charging for official "mods", but there are... ways... to acquire them without spending. Or so I've heard.
Somebody Else
05-03-2006, 14:39
Meh... a fiver for all three ain't too bad...
Personally I thought Morrowind was amazing, and Oblivion was a huge step backwards (Except graphically)
Steppe Merc
05-04-2006, 00:26
Personally I thought Morrowind was amazing, and Oblivion was a huge step backwards (Except graphically)
Well, I haven't finished Oblivion like I did Morrowind. But I do agree, I find the relative lack of variety in armor and weapons very sad... like where are all the spears? Hopefully with mods the game will become as it should have been.
BTW, anyone heard about how the ESBR changed the rating to M? Apparently the idiots didn't realize the amount of blood and gore (Dark Brotherhood anyone? Or genatlia less zombies?), and people from Bethesda included a topless skin for modders to create strapless dresses etc.
What is scaring me from Oblivion (I love Morrowind) is all the horror stories about auto-leveling monsters and equipment that was once rare automatically leveling into a common gear on enemies. The fact that Bethesda is not releasing free mods and has failed to release the necessary tools for real user-made mods further sours the deal.
Alexanderofmacedon
05-04-2006, 05:45
Just take a breather.:sweatdrop:
Isn't the wife more important?...You know what I mean...:sweatdrop:
Somebody Else
05-04-2006, 10:27
What is scaring me from Oblivion (I love Morrowind) is all the horror stories about auto-leveling monsters and equipment that was once rare automatically leveling into a common gear on enemies. The fact that Bethesda is not releasing free mods and has failed to release the necessary tools for real user-made mods further sours the deal.
There are mods out there to fix that... Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul for one...
There are mods out there to fix that... Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul for one...
Yeah, but I heard(and believe it, because it´s usually like this) that these mods also change other things which you may not want to be changed.:juggle2:
Rosacrux redux
05-04-2006, 11:39
I was negatively predesposed on this autoleveling thingy as well... but when trying it out, it proved to be great, the fact that you can actually explore everything (but not beat everybody) from the get go, is a rare boon! And I was not a fan of Morrorwind, actually I played it only for a couple days before returning the copy to the friend who lend it to me (a gooood thing I didn't bought it...).
Oblivion's main point - for me - is that it's addictive as hell. I haven't had such kind of immersion in a RPG from the days of Baldur's Gate I, and that's... what, 7-8 years ago?
Alexander I am taking lotsa breathers... my wife is the type who doesn't take no for an answer, even if she has to take the keyboard&mouse from my cold dead fingers ...she just cut me some slack for the first 3-4 days.
Somebody Else
05-04-2006, 11:43
Yeah, but I heard(and believe it, because it´s usually like this) that these mods also change other things which you may not want to be changed.:juggle2:
Hmm, I've not got any complaints with the changes made... I suppose because I'd already played through the main quest twice before installing any mods. Now I have a plugin list as long as my arm installed.
Haven't played the game in a few days though - exams coming up...
Well, I haven't finished Oblivion like I did Morrowind. But I do agree, I find the relative lack of variety in armor and weapons very sad... like where are all the spears? Hopefully with mods the game will become as it should have been.
BTW, anyone heard about how the ESBR changed the rating to M? Apparently the idiots didn't realize the amount of blood and gore (Dark Brotherhood anyone? Or genatlia less zombies?), and people from Bethesda included a topless skin for modders to create strapless dresses etc.
I believe the topless skins were probably user created mod, so the ESRB rating wouldn't have changed for that. But yeah I was confused as all heck trying to figure out how they got a T rating with all the Dark Brotherhood stuff in it. I remember doing the final DB quest and was (spoiler ahead turn around) floored that they had so many corpses in there, even baby corpses, and yet it was a T. Though I personally think Bethesda deserves a pat on the back for the "Who Dun It?" quest for DB, that was friggin hilarious.
Oblivion is a great game, so much better then Morrowind. The only thing better in morrowind was the main quest which was amazing. I havent played a game that is so immersive, so fun in such a long while. I havent played a game that has looked better then Oblivion, period, to quote X-Play here "they get reality better then reality.". The auto leveling was a novel idea, you can do anything at any level and have the same difficulty at it. You don't just become a high level and get a big axe and suddenly everything is a one hit wonder.
Originally posted by Husar
Yeah, but I heard(and believe it, because it´s usually like this) that these mods also change other things which you may not want to be changed.
Mods work differently for Elder Scrolls games then they do for most games. They use a Master and plugin for mods, master will always overrule a plugin so really no mod can screw your game. If any mod does screw up your game though, its easy to fix. Just shut it down and turn off that plug in and restart your game. Bethesda is quite good with the modding community, you are given the full spectrum of the developers tools (exceptions to seperate programs, like program packers and photoshop obviously.) to mod the game to your desire. Its possible to change almost anything in it. I often wish Activision had done this with RTW.
Seriously this game will go down in gaming history as one of the greats. Now I must get back to Oblivion, there's a fighters guild porter thats stalking my assassin.~:smoking: :rifle:
Steppe Merc
05-04-2006, 20:09
I believe the topless skins were probably user created mod, so the ESRB rating wouldn't have changed for that. But yeah I was confused as all heck trying to figure out how they got a T rating with all the Dark Brotherhood stuff in it. I remember doing the final DB quest and was (spoiler ahead turn around) floored that they had so many corpses in there, even baby corpses, and yet it was a T. Though I personally think Bethesda deserves a pat on the back for the "Who Dun It?" quest for DB, that was friggin hilarious.
Well a seperate modder did add it in. But there was a topless skin in there that was included in the game but not part of it, as a modder's resource.
Mods work differently for Elder Scrolls games then they do for most games. They use a Master and plugin for mods, master will always overrule a plugin so really no mod can screw your game. If any mod does screw up your game though, its easy to fix. Just shut it down and turn off that plug in and restart your game. Bethesda is quite good with the modding community, you are given the full spectrum of the developers tools (exceptions to seperate programs, like program packers and photoshop obviously.) to mod the game to your desire. Its possible to change almost anything in it. I often wish Activision had done this with RTW.
I thought so too, but Bethesda gave them nothing to add in new models, animations or anything. In fact, I think it was easier to add animations to RTW than it will be to Oblivion, from what I've seen on the main forums about the mods. So while on the outside they seem to be catering to the modders, I still think their screwing them over.
Which leads me to wondering why companies claim to have really moddable games then screw over the modding comunity?
The Wizard
05-04-2006, 23:52
It is a much better game, it isn't nearly as lifeless as Morrowind. Basicly, it rules.
That isn't enough. What I need is a convincing argument to bring me off of my belief that the fighting system and the way the story fits into the game will suck again (not to mention a serious computer overhaul).
That isn't enough. What I need is a convincing argument to bring me off of my belief that the fighting system and the way the story fits into the game will suck again (not to mention a serious computer overhaul).
What was your problem with the fighting system? I did not like Morrowind's much - in melee, it seemed your target was always jumping around (Deus Ex had the same thing). Also the lack of level-scaling meant you often died in one or two hits, which was not my idea of fun. But I rather like the combat in Oblvion - left click to hit, right click to block. It's very like Mount and Blade, and - I know this is heresy in this forum - I confess that in some ways I now prefer Oblivion's melee. It seems less all about getting your hit in first and less hectic. I still prefer Mount and Blade's archery (more point and shoot - Oblivion does weird things with inclines). Obviously mounted combat is better in Mount and Blade, as there isn't any in Oblivion, but then I'm useless at mounted combat in M&B, so I don't miss much. The scaling means that the combat is generally appropriately challenging, but you should survive. Some may find that unchallenging or boring but I found it ok.
As to the story, I confess I did not find any in Morrowind. Apparently, it was all in books and stuff. Or maybe the half-naked guy was going to tell me sooner or later. But I gave up before it got going. Oblivion has a much more engaging premise - gates of hell opening - and the characters who give you quests are vastly more engaging. The sidequests are rather good, if individually slight. I found the main quest amazing when you close the first gate and liberate a city, but then it goes off the boil a little as these vast & non-linear kind of games do (e.g. BG, FO). I've temporarily lost motivation, so I can't say the story is great. But it is better.
What bothers me about auto-leveling is that you have no point of comparison for your own growth. Being able to kill everything around with a little effort should not be the case when you are low-level. Likewise, when you become an uber-warrior and can kill those tough enemies, the average joe-shmoe guys should not be magically getting tougher. They had this in Gladius and I hated it; your levels don't give you a huge advantage because they maintain parity with EVERYONE in the world. For me, that would really kill the realism.
Somebody Else
05-05-2006, 08:01
Hence some of these mods... For instance, the one I mentioned, a random highwayman will initially be a problem, later... not so. At the beginning if you wander into the woods - you might just stumble on something really nasty... that later would be worth fighting (rather than running away from). Of course, there's enough big beasties out there to keep you going for a very long way - the toughest creatures are level 40 or so, but you won't run across them too often (and there's a little bit of levelling of course - but only so that it's not insanely difficult).
Rosacrux redux
05-05-2006, 11:21
Bah, I like the leveling. It gives a more realistic feeling to the game - you don't become the most powerful being in the world in 40 days, you just finetune your srengths and augment them to become more and more effective against creatures/foes that do not become a breeze to take out with one strike.
Anyway, it's not that the random highwayman will be a huge problem when you are lvl 40, methinks... or so I assume, I haven't gone past lvl 5 yet, but isn't the lvl of several creatrues, troop types etc. capped at some point? So that you progress after that point but they don't?
Somebody Else
05-05-2006, 13:42
There are level-caps in the original yes, but they're a bit iffy - and equipment isn't really capped at all. I mean, just how many bandits would you expect to find fully kitted out in daedric or glass armour?
Plus (and I'm lifting fromt he mod description here pretty much). If the city guards are capable of going toe-to-toe to you at high levels... what exactly makes you the only person who can save the world?
Steppe Merc
05-05-2006, 22:28
I don't mind the leveling, but I dislike the huge number of super armor I was starting to find (Darius is around level... 20 I think). So I downloaded a mod that decreased the commoness of good armor, while keeping in the level system more or less. As well as multiple others, like better horses, new weapons, improved quests, etc.
But I also started a new character Timur-i-Lenk, and the most annoying thing I found was my extreme difficulty in creating a Turco Mongol face... Especially with the lack of beards (stubble doesn't cut it).
The game had me glued for the vast majority of my free time until I finished it. I'm still playing (with some mods that solve the whole random NPC #3767 brigand with armor that costs more than an average small country), but it loses some of it's charm, not in the gaming sense, but on the level where you think that doing random quests is beneat the honor of the guy who saved the world, is a boss in three guilds and runs around with weapons and equipment that would make a small army run away in fear.
That isn't enough. What I need is a convincing argument to bring me off of my belief that the fighting system and the way the story fits into the game will suck again (not to mention a serious computer overhaul).
If you didn't like Morrowind you will probably dislike Oblivion for the same reasons, it is basicly more of the same, but done beter and with a lot more personality. Fighting still isn't very fun imo, but the world is a lot more convincing. Shops will close at night, people will take walks, towns actually feel like towns filled with people just living their lives. Maybe you should rent it, it sounds to me like it just isn't your type of game.
Steppe Merc
05-06-2006, 20:34
If anyone has a really crappy computer (like me), to make it run well (but not look so well), put everything on the lowest settings, and access the console by pressing ~, then type slp 1010, and press enter. Then type tlb. It'll not look nearly as nice as it ought to, but it runs very well.
The_Emperor
05-14-2006, 20:54
So is it worth it then? I really liked Morrowind but have yet to get Oblivion.
Steppe Merc
05-14-2006, 21:11
Deffienetly. Even if you're computer is crappy, like mine, then you can get it to work (see my post above).
edyzmedieval
05-14-2006, 21:17
Ah good. In the best gaming magazine from Romania, Oblivion had a mega review of 12 pages. :skull:
Zalmoxis
05-14-2006, 21:46
It does look pretty good, but I think I'll wait to buy better parts for my computer before getting this.
Reenk Roink
05-14-2006, 22:13
Hmm...
I played both Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights...
I will only be playing Neverwinter Nights 2 (looking forward to it too :2thumbsup:)...
'nuff said...
English assassin
05-15-2006, 11:44
Coincidentally, I came off a NWN jag before loading Oblivion for the first time.
Without exaggeration, I can say my reaction was, blimey, so THIS is what it is meant to be about.
Not that I'm not also looking forward to NWN2
The_Emperor
05-17-2006, 22:01
Well I got Oblivion as my system matches the Reccomended spec on the box...
Trouble is I got the game home and installed it only to find my Nvidia card is not supported! :furious3: I am angry because the card is an Nvidia GeForce FX with video memory size to meet the spec...
:wall:
So, any new 'must have' mods? I've taken a break from the game for a few weeks and am wondering what new stuff is out there.
Steppe Merc
05-19-2006, 13:57
Well I got Oblivion as my system matches the Reccomended spec on the box...
Trouble is I got the game home and installed it only to find my Nvidia card is not supported! :furious3: I am angry because the card is an Nvidia GeForce FX with video memory size to meet the spec...
:wall:
Do this: put everything on low. Then press tab and enter: slp 1010 and then tlb. It should help.
edyzmedieval
05-19-2006, 21:25
I'm ordering the Collectors Edition pack.
Hope Oblivion is a good RPG, as the mega article in LEVEL Romania states. :book:
The_Emperor
05-20-2006, 01:29
Do this: put everything on low. Then press tab and enter: slp 1010 and then tlb. It should help.
Hmm I tried that and it didn't do anything. Was pressing tab meant to bring up a command prompt or something because I didn't see one.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Econ21, Rosa and Fragony. IMO Oblivion is a shallow experience compared with Morrowind, especially without using mods. There is less character, everything is more generic fantasy, the quests are rail-roaded and the repetitive voice acting gets on my nerves. The levelling system makes sure that you start average and stay there, but also that you can become Arena Champion at level one or Arch-Mage without ever casting a spell. There are no guild requirements you see. Neither does the Imperial heartland, with the Emperor dead and the nation "in turmoil" have any politics. Oh and loot levelling is an immersion breaker in my book, as well as rendering thievery useless and futher adding to the pointlessness of levelling up and improving your character or searching for magical stuff in remote locations.
I do like the combat, which is fast and furious. Also the graphics are good, if your system can handle them. Which it probably cannot. Like Morrowind did it runs, and I quote the game, "like a pregnant cow" even on powerful systems.
Edit:
The rating was changed specifically because Bethseda (or the publisher, or whoever) did not inform the powers that be that the nude skins were included as part of the software. After the "Hot Coffee" fiasco this was an amazingly stupid ommission.
Steppe Merc
05-22-2006, 13:16
Hmm I tried that and it didn't do anything. Was pressing tab meant to bring up a command prompt or something because I didn't see one.
Damn, I'm sorry, I mean this: ~, not tab. You press it, and it should enter up a command line.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Econ21, Rosa and Fragony. IMO Oblivion is a shallow experience compared with Morrowind, especially without using mods. There is less character, everything is more generic fantasy, the quests are rail-roaded and the repetitive voice acting gets on my nerves. The levelling system makes sure that you start average and stay there, but also that you can become Arena Champion at level one or Arch-Mage without ever casting a spell. There are no guild requirements you see. Neither does the Imperial heartland, with the Emperor dead and the nation "in turmoil" have any politics. Oh and loot levelling is an immersion breaker in my book, as well as rendering thievery useless and futher adding to the pointlessness of levelling up and improving your character or searching for magical stuff in remote locations.
I do like the combat, which is fast and furious. Also the graphics are good, if your system can handle them. Which it probably cannot. Like Morrowind did it runs, and I quote the game, "like a pregnant cow" even on powerful systems.
Edit:
The rating was changed specifically because Bethseda (or the publisher, or whoever) did not inform the powers that be that the nude skins were included as part of the software. After the "Hot Coffee" fiasco this was an amazingly stupid ommission.
[/generic fanboy problems]
Oblivion's great, you'll only have problems with it if you let your expectations get too high...
{though i would agree that it doesn't feel as deep as morrowind did}
English assassin
05-24-2006, 13:04
On reflection, as an RPG I think this really is pretty good.
OK, bits are not good. The lock picking/persuasion things are pathetic, and when will game designers work out that buying things in shops is not fun? (Are there special playtesters out there who like clicking on five different buttons just to see if they can haggle the shopkeeper up from 50% to 51% of an item's value?) And in principle, I was really impressed at the way shops keep shop hours and then close, people tell you to meet them at midnight, and show up at midnight and not before, but in practice I find I'm thinking, OK, I've got to be at such and such a place at 10 pm, Il'l to pop out and fence some stolen goods and then have a few hours to kill, might as well go to the pub..., and I'm not sure yet whether I don't get enough time management in real life not to need it in a game as well.
What is really good, IMHO, though, is the way the combination of how and why you level up, the autoleveling which means you don't HAVE to level up all the time, and the incentive not to commit (too many) crimes means you don't have to play the game as if you were a kleptomanic psychopath. (cough NWN cough).
I'm playing out of my usual type as a thoroughly amoral assassin, and I find I've still killed far fewer people than "normal" and each fight/hit is still a big deal. (Also I admit I find the combat a bit tricky which probably contributes to that. I just can't get the hang that its left click/righthand weapon right click/lefthand sheild, seems the wrong way round to me. I couild do with an autoresolve option to be honest.) And actually being able to use stealth, hide in shadow, etc, is very good.
Can't say I've had problems running it either, and my machine is good but not brand new.
All in all, very impressed.
Samurai Waki
05-24-2006, 21:39
I'm actually a little more dissapointed in Oblivion compared to Morrowind. Although the interface is much nicer, and combat is way more fun. But the fact remains that Oblivion's story isn't as immersive in my opinion and the setting isn't as deep. I think the world could've been much, much larger. Anyhow, I've already spent some serious time on it, and have thus far beaten the game with one character. Now I'm just debating wether I should do it again with another character type or just put it aside and forget about it... Well NWN 2 is coming out soon, so I'll be waiting for that.
I find Oblivion to be largely inferior to Morrowind. I really dislike the autolevelling system of monsters and loot, as it feels like the game is punishing you instead of rewarding you for being successful. There is no incentive to improve, as the game will feel pretty much the same as it did when I was level 1. I end up getting better equipment just to be able to stay on equal footing with the goblins, instead of feeling like I was advancing and improving to tackle bigger tasks. This lack of incentive to play on is also felt in the relative scarcity of quests. Yes, it can be nice to have all dialogue given in full speech, but it also means that there fewer dialogue options available to you overall and fewer quests to do in the game, and these negatives definitely outweight any immersion effects I was supposed to get from the spoken dialogue. And, with the autolevelling system in place, I feel there's no real point in randomly entering the dungeons just for the heck of it, as I can only hope to find some generic loot appropriate for my level and encounter monsters in fights that feel exactly the same regardless of level I'm at right now.
The inventory system is also lacking any detail and is too console-like, which is bad in my book. With the travel system that kills any sense of exploration, the shopkeepers who all of a sudden all have dwarven armor for sale after you've reached certain level - while they exclusively had trinkets in store before that - , and a very generic feel of the environments (unlike the tribal world of Morrowind wastelands that had some real flavor), I lost interest fairly quickly, despite being hooked at first. On the positive side, the combat is better and more visceral than Morrowind's, and the game looks good, but I'd prefer to have more substance than all the bells and whistles and 3D grass. All in all, to me Oblivion feels overly "gamey" and fails to provide a real sense of immersion, whereas Morrowind felt like a real world laid out for me to explore - the timetables of NPCs just can't make up for what the game lacks in detail in other departments.
NodachiSam
05-28-2006, 06:43
Interesting Post Hrovjej.
I'm considering purchasing Oblivion myself. I was an incredibly huge fan or Morrowind and found it really immersive. However, I have some major reservations before I get Oblivion that I worry about.
As mentioned the auto scaling sounds enormously offputting. If even the rats are able to kick your ass at level 15 if you're not careful , what is the point of leveling up in the first place. One of the things I loved in Morrowind was that sense of accomplishment when something that made you flee before you could now kill without too much trouble. It allowed you to feel really egotistical and proud of how strong you've become. :laugh4: It sounds like you'll rarely be in over you head and never really feel indanger. (which is something I enjoyed)
I hear there are fewer quests and fewer factions. How do you guys feel about that? Does it affect replayability alot? In Morrowind you had to play at least 3 times to play all the factions as some were mutually exclusive.
Also, I hate that they removed spears, and made Argonians and those cat things I never played move so human like. These might seem inconsequential but I loved the feel of playing an argonian and the spear was of my two favourite weapons, the other being the long sword. The spear required a lot of skill to use well but was extremely effective. I feel really confident that these things are gone due to the extra money involved to add them (more animations and such) and I think its a shame.
I hear flying is also out but yet check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyHiIeBsc9E
On the plus side I hear there are no longer cliff racers.
Samurai Waki
05-28-2006, 07:30
The Nice thing about owning it on a PC, is that there is at least one mod designer out there that wants to change the autoleveling system back to the way it was in Morrowind.
As mentioned the auto scaling sounds enormously offputting. If even the rats are able to kick your ass at level 15 if you're not careful , what is the point of leveling up in the first place.
AFAIK, only the "top" monster of a particular type levels with you. So rats won't kill you at level 15, but I guess other kinds of wildlife will tend to spawn instead. However, a Vampire Lord - as a "top" kind of monster - will tend to be about your level.
I must say the auto-levelling doesn't bother me. I rather liked fighting Vampires at low level, rather than being insta-killed. It meant I could do some fun quests before I burnt out - which I did with both Morrowind and Oblivion after 40+ hours. The auto-levelling also meant I only died when I messed up, rather than dying because I went into a cave that I was somehow not "supposed" to go into. Feeling all mighty and powerful at level 15 is not important to me - at level 15, I want to be fighting something all mighty and powerful, not owning rats. But with a non-linear, open-form game like Oblivion that's not possible without some kind of auto-levelling.
I may go back to Oblivion, but I guess my main reservation relates to the feel and depth of the world. It is just not compelling and involving enough - there's no "hook" to keep you coming back in. The characters are bland and the main story too optional. By contrast, in the best CRPGs, like Fallout 2 or Baldur's Gate 2, the characters and story just engage you so much, you stick with it. I guess I just don't like these single player MMORG-wannabees that Bethesda seem to specialise in.
I should say that I have not tried the Assassin quests - just not my cup of tea, although I gather many people find them the most compelling strand of the game.
One of the things I loved in Morrowind was that sense of accomplishment when something that made you flee before you could now kill without too much trouble. It allowed you to feel really egotistical and proud of how strong you've become.
This is exactly what I miss in Oblivion. I remember how fun it was to try to fight the guy with the Umbra sword in Morrowind after every few levels to see whether I can finally beat him, and the sense of accomplishment once I finally did. Oblivion just lacks this sort of "man, am I pleased with myself" sort of feeling, since everything levels up when you do. I simply don't have that pleasure of pushing myself to the limit to be able to better handle whatever future may bring, as I know that everything I'll find in a given dungeon will be scaled to my level, and I won't get anything out of it that will enable me to tread deeper water - because ultimately, there is not deeper water to tread. Why would I even want to clear out more dungeons and level up when this is the case? There aren't even some appealing items that the stores have for sale that you an see right off the bat, as better stuff only shows up once you have gotten a few levels and you are finding those things all over the place.
On the other hand, this can create problems in the completely opposite direction as well. To illustrate it with an example: there is a quest where you have to help some farmers fend off goblins raiding their farm. If both of the farmers survive, you'll get the reward, if they die, you don't. I tried this quest at level 1, and somehow managed to kill the goblins but the farmers died. Ok, I thought, I'll reload and get back to it later when I'm able to slay the goblins more easily and before they manage to kill the farmers. But, surprise surprise, when I got back at level 8, the goblins have leveled up as well, and were equally hard to kill as they were before, but now they also killed the idiot farmers even more easily. IMHO that's just stupid, frustrating as hell, and throughly off-putting.
And yes, fewer quests and fewer factions are a negative. I like the freeform games, but since I don't feel compelled to improve myself otherwise, I guess a plethora of quests would do the trick to keep me occupied. However, due to the autolevelling thing you can complete a vast majority of the quests while at a fairly low level, which means that you can get them over with quickly and early - while at the same time you again don't have to work on yourself to be able complete them in the first place. At level 10, I completed nearly all of the side quests in the game (not the faction quests - but there are only 4 factions basically). On top of that, you do many of the quest together with some annoying companions whom you should in fact try to keep alive, but I would really much rather just kill them myself because they only get in the way and prevent me from playing the game the way I want to play it.
There are many other silly little things that are missing, some of which are not even normally found in RPGs or really important, but that were there in Morrowind and I really liked the fact that Morrowind had them. For example, the armor set is comprised of fewer pieces now, you can't wear clothes at the same time you wear armor, you can drink several potions at once during a fight while the game is paused, there is much less interaction with the NPCs and the interaction is ridiculously simple, etc. etc. Overall, the world just feels way less detailed and alive than Morrowind's. It feels like a run-of-the-mill action RPG, and not like a game in the same league as Daggerfall and Morrowind.
In short, my advice is wait for the bargain bin.
NodachiSam
05-29-2006, 05:03
I will be waiting until at least august when I get a new computer. I guess I will wait a little while occupying myself with something else until it drops in price.
The_Emperor
05-31-2006, 22:47
Well after a new grapics card (that also comes in handy for RTW) I am now settling back into Oblivion.
By the sounds of the Auto-levelling system it does seem rather silly that creatures will suddenly start dropping Daedric, Glass and Dwarven armour. In Morrowind I remember having a great time trying to track these sets down to wear on my Dark Elf.
Glass armour was only avaliable in a few places and the full Daedric set was only avaliable in one place from what I remember. Dwarven stuff was also likewise relegated to the lovely volcano that occupied the middle of the map and it made travelling a bit more involving...
"Bloody volcano in the way, have to go around it" (30 mins later still walking around the purple perimiter) "Jeeezzz how big is this thing?"
As for Oblivion I am starting to enjoy the Kvatch quests but I had a lot of trouble with the troops you get to help. They all enjoyed running around all over the place and pulling enemies onto me while the main quest guys passes out every few minutes... In the end I resorted to a kind of "Operation get behind the darkies", as in the NPC guys runs in and starts fighting while I am sneaking around behind him watching.
Certainly was more fun than running in and getting swamped.
English assassin
06-01-2006, 11:32
[QUOTE=econ21]
I must say the auto-levelling doesn't bother me. I rather liked fighting Vampires at low level, rather than being insta-killed. ... The auto-levelling also meant I only died when I messed up, rather than dying because I went into a cave that I was somehow not "supposed" to go into. Feeling all mighty and powerful at level 15 is not important to me - at level 15, I want to be fighting something all mighty and powerful, not owning rats. But with a non-linear, open-form game like Oblivion that's not possible without some kind of auto-levelling.[QUOTE]
I agree with this. Unless you want the game to, in effect, "tell" you that, OK, NOW you must go into that dungeon, alright, done that, now its time to do this bit of this quest, and so on, you have to have some sort of scaling. Without that you either get toasted at low level, or wind up playing what has basically become a superhero game at high level ("oh, orcs" [click-dead], "oh, more Orcs" [click-dead, repeat 500 times, wonder when the fun starts])
Although there is something to be said for wiping out a whole room full of rabble with one spell/whirlwind ninja like skills, the fun wears off. I like low level adventures where death is a real possibility if you get it wrong, and this preserves that feel for me.
Possibly the game is so open form you don't get drawn into the story, I'm not sure. Maybe you have to make your own story a bit (eg I am ignoring the main quest with my assassin character, and only doing the Dark Brotherhood quests. That's his "story" and it seems to hang together well enough. If I wanted to do the main quest afterwards I'd probably start again with a more mainstream character, there's only so much hiding in shadows you want to do after all. I like that I can do that, starting over each time with a different character type and it doesn't matter that they are all low level. )
There are two things that hook players on RPGs. One is a decent storyline, whic to be honest Oblivion lacks: There is no mystery, no politics and no suspense. The second hook is the urge to forward your character through levelling up and collecting gizmos. The levelling system in Oblivion prevents this from having any purpose at all. It is little wonder that people get bored, complain of a lack of replayability and uninstall after completing the main quest. Sure some of the side quests are interesting, but by and large there is no point in having a vast free-form world if there is nothing much out there.
I for one have found the constant "challenge" presented by the crude levelling system to be completely lacking in actual challenge. At least Morrowind started off challenge and became boring later. Oblivion starts off boring and never improved.
Oh, and please note that creatures and NPCs level in different ways. Creatures (wolves, trolls, daedric monsters etc) are levelled by type, not by actual level. So a level one PC will face scamps and never see a clannfear, while a level fifteen will see clannfears and never see another scamp. Once you hit a certain level (I think it goes in fives) you will not see creatures from the previous level again, except those few which have already spawned or are scripted.
NPCs (bandits, vampires etc) are scaled directly in relation to the level of the PC, as is their equipment. There may be some variation in actual level, but the NPC type will always be there. This is why you can kill a Vampire, say, at level one. He is at level one as well, or just a little higher. It is also why he is armed with a spoon and a length of yarn. At level twenty he will be armed, like everyone else, with a selection of decent gear but the fight will still be much the same because he will still mirror your character.
There are exceptions. Some characters have set levels (or at least a min and a max, I forget), for example. This means they follow the old Morrowind way of either being really dangerous or really easy. The protagonist in the Mages Guild quests springs to mind. Also the guards are set at level twenty. So early in the game they'll slaughter your opponents for you, but at later levels they will be slaughtered themselves, even if the opponents are still just bandits.
I for one have found the constant "challenge" presented by the crude levelling system to be completely lacking in actual challenge. At least Morrowind started off challenge and became boring later. Oblivion starts off boring and never improved.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I found nothing at level 2 in Morrowind nearly as much fun or as exciting (or with as interesting story) as Kvatch and closing the first gate to Oblivion. What was I doing in Morrowind at level 2? Ah yes, fighting mud crabs and desperately trying to walk at a faster speed than an 80 year old cripple. Fun times.
Steppe Merc
06-10-2006, 01:04
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I found nothing at level 2 in Morrowind nearly as much fun or as exciting (or with as interesting story) as Kvatch and closing the first gate to Oblivion. What was I doing in Morrowind at level 2? Ah yes, fighting mud crabs and desperately trying to walk at a faster speed than an 80 year old cripple. Fun times.
Excellent point... I found Morrowind the best at the end, not the beggining. And Kvatch was incredible... I wish there was more stuff like that rather than all of the Counts telling you to close his Oblivion Gate because he's to coward. Thank goodness for the guild missions... which are quite fun, especially the Dark Brotherhood, but also the Fighters Guild. Though I do miss fighting for the Redorans...
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I found nothing at level 2 in Morrowind nearly as much fun or as exciting (or with as interesting story) as Kvatch and closing the first gate to Oblivion. What was I doing in Morrowind at level 2? Ah yes, fighting mud crabs and desperately trying to walk at a faster speed than an 80 year old cripple. Fun times.
But I was talking about challenge, not fun. The two can be linked (a fun challenge rather than a frustrating one for example) but are not the same thing. Kvatch is sadly the highlight of Oblivion's mainquest, and is indeed fun and exciting. But not a challenge at level 2, at least when I tried it with my fighter. With my level 17ish mage it was a challenge (the only one so far) but that was due to the shoddy levelling system and the sheer number of bad guys rather than clever design. Some of the guild and sidequests are quite interesting, but show me the challenge in defeating The King of Worms. Now that was a crushing disappointment!
Kvatch is sadly the highlight of Oblivion's mainquest, and is indeed fun and exciting. But not a challenge at level 2, at least when I tried it with my fighter.
Again, different strokes for different folks. My level 2 fighter died so many times in Kvatch. The first gate was "just right" in difficulty - I was terrified, but made it. Kvatch honestly was a little too hard - I must have reloaded about 30 times and that just kills the immersion (the vulnerability of most guards - and seeming invulnerability of another - also led to some gamey tactics on my part).
Somebody Else
06-12-2006, 20:59
The game does slightly favour melee characters I find, mages don't have the high-powered spells required to take on more than one nasty at a time, archery is weak. A fighter with an appropiately enchanted sword can take most anything down fairly rapidly. (As soon as I can a) get hold of Azura's Star and b) enchant a sword with soultrap and heavy health-leeching/elemental damage (+weakness to as well) I can pretty much handle anything. N.B. Enchpopsanting can make bows viable too - nothing quite like seeing a vampire get toasted by one or two fire arrows. (It is also possible to make use of the 3d environment to advantage - there are often places which are unassailable by the AI, from whence arrows and spells can be posted for however long it takes.)
Basically, magic only really seems useful for ancilliary tasks - enchanting, healing and the occasional feather to get all that shiny stuff back out of the dungeons. Leave the fighting to the real men.
The_Emperor
06-12-2006, 21:15
Sadly I think Somebody else is right.
Unlike Morrowind the other class skills are severely lacking in Oblivion. My Assassin/ranger style character at the moment is great at range but when an enemy gets close he just cannot hack it in melee even with power attacks.
EDIT: Sadly I just discovered the problem that caused this, my character had both Athletics and Acrobatics as major skills, sadly this means he is levelling up like nobody's business and his weapon skills are falling behind.
I guess I'll start a new character with different skill sets.
Again, different strokes for different folks. My level 2 fighter died so many times in Kvatch. The first gate was "just right" in difficulty - I was terrified, but made it. Kvatch honestly was a little too hard - I must have reloaded about 30 times and that just kills the immersion (the vulnerability of most guards - and seeming invulnerability of another - also led to some gamey tactics on my part).
Ah the classic stab em in the back while they attack invinciguard, then running around in circles (trailing a demonic horde) waiting for him to recover tactic as used by my mage? I found that the guards did most of my work for me at level 2, presumably because they were of a higher level than the monsters. At level 17ish they all got killed really quickly, except for the aforementioned inviciguard.
Magic is weak until you can create your own spells, then it can become game-breakingly powerful if you let it.
The levelling system does indeed mean that it is easy for a character with passive stats to level up, thus increasing his enemy's combat stats and getting him owned. I felt it at early levels with my mage and as a consequence he did alot of back-pedalling! Of course the system also means that if your character never sleeps his skills will improve but his enemy's will not because the level remains static! Thus your running-jumping character is perfectly playable so long as you never sleep. Then when your combat skills begin to outclass your opponents and it becomes even easier you can sleep for a few level increases and try again.
Thus removing any semblance of a living world.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.