Foreign Flags in the U.S.

[AwesomeArcher]

This goes along with the whole Illegal Immigration issue. I was visiting my cousins and aunt and uncle in Texas about a month ago. I saw some house with Mexican flags flying higher than the U.S. flag and some houses with just the Mexican flags flying. I also have seen on the news people waving mexican flags in support of Immigration. I can understand comming hear to get a better life, and the fact that the U.S. is based on both legal and illegal immigration, and maybe not being able to speak the english language perfectly. But if you are going to come hear and openly disrespect the country, i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

We often fly just a Norwegian flag from our balcony....

We have a tiny bit of Norwegian blood in us, but mostly fly it because we had an exchange student from there. Does that offend you as well?

[Csargo]

The only flag that I know of that can be flown as high as the US flag in the US is Texas. I dont know about any other flags of any other country. As for the Mexicans I could careless what they do if they want to disrespect the country that they came to for a better life that just shows how stupid they really are.

[Zalmoxis]

This goes along with the whole Illegal Immigration issue. I was visiting my cousins and aunt and uncle in Texas about a month ago. I saw some house with Mexican flags flying higher than the U.S. flag and some houses with just the Mexican flags flying. I also have seen on the news people waving mexican flags in support of Immigration. I can understand comming hear to get a better life, and the fact that the U.S. is based on both legal and illegal immigration, and maybe not being able to speak the english language perfectly. But if you are going to come hear and openly disrespect the country, i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.
If it's your home you have the right to wave any flag, there's really no other explanation required.

[spmetla]

There's no problem with foreign flags. Some people (myself included) take pride in their foreign birth and are happy to display it. So long as they are being displayed on private property no problem. If the foreign flag is being flown improperly they should be told to do otherwise (I mean in height, to the right of the speaker, etc..). It's flown by itself who cares. It doesn't mean allegiance to another country.

[ShadesWolf]

This goes along with the whole Illegal Immigration issue. I was visiting my cousins and aunt and uncle in Texas about a month ago. I saw some house with Mexican flags flying higher than the U.S. flag and some houses with just the Mexican flags flying. I also have seen on the news people waving mexican flags in support of Immigration. I can understand comming hear to get a better life, and the fact that the U.S. is based on both legal and illegal immigration, and maybe not being able to speak the english language perfectly. But if you are going to come hear and openly disrespect the country, i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.

If you lived in the UK you would be called a racist for saying that. :dizzy2:
In the UK we arent even allowed to have the English/ UK flag up in areas because it might offend other people.

It is the world cup in a few weeks and local government building are not going to fly the English flag so not to offend.

It is so stupid

[spmetla]

Are foreigner's in Britain allowed to display their flags? It's stupid as it is but if you guys really fly your own flag while others wear shirts and fly flags off their cars with foriegn flags aren't allowed to do so.

Stupid 'progress' :furious3:

[Duke of Gloucester]

If you lived in the UK you would be called a racist for saying that.

Most racists in the UK would make a similar argument about national flags, but I think, SW you could make the argument without being called a racist. Personally, I would wish to distance myself from racists by not making those arguments.


In the UK we arent even allowed to have the English/ UK flag up in areas because it might offend other people.

There is no law in the UK against flying the Cross of Saint George or the Union Flag. Of course there are UK cities where you would be unwise to fly the English flag because the offence it caused might put you at risk. For example:

















Glasgow, Cardiff etc.


It is so stupid

Rather than stupid, it is sad that the English flag has been appropriated by people who are racist. Let's reclaim it as a national, rather than an ethnic, symbol.

[ShadesWolf]

Define foreigner's

This is not to offend people that live in the UK. People that were born in the Uk.

All you have to do is go to a cricket match to see how many people support the country of their birth.

Football is slightly different, the problem is not the people (in most cases) its the authorities. They seem to think that the flaf upsets people, so we must not fly the flag. We still have to many 'do gooder' left wingers running the councils in England

I always remember, during the first gulf war, the college were I was studying purchasing at night school took all the UK flags down so not to offend any muslims in the local area. To me this type of response is problematic.

[ShadesWolf]

There is no law in the UK against flying the Cross of Saint George or the Union Flag. Of course there are UK cities where you would be unwise to fly the English flag because the offence it caused might put you at risk. For example:

















Glasgow, Cardiff etc.



Rather than stupid, it is sad that the English flag has been appropriated by people who are racist. Let's reclaim it as a national, rather than an ethnic, symbol.

I am not talking about Uk cities, I am talking about English cities. Therefore, we have no excuse for not flying the English flag in english city.

As far as Im concerend it should be flown from EVERY flag pole on every English council building. PERIOD.

It is totally stupid to say that in certain towns and areas of ENGLAND we cannot fly the flag.

[Pannonian]

Are foreigner's in Britain allowed to display their flags? It's stupid as it is but if you guys really fly your own flag while others wear shirts and fly flags off their cars with foriegn flags aren't allowed to do so.

Stupid 'progress' :furious3:
The PC rubbish is much exaggerated. St George flags are omnipresent whenever England play. The Union flag is generally missing but only because it's the British flag, and there isn't a British team outside the Olympics (where it is indeed flown). The St Andrew and the Dragon are equally in evidence when Scotland and Wales play, with nary a hint of Englishness in the crowd (the Union flag is usually frowned on, the bearer threatened until it's taken down).

The Union flag is less visible nowadays than the constituent flags, partly because people feel it's been taken over by neo-fascists and partly because people feel more comfortable with tribalism as defined by their national sporting teams. When it does make an appearance, it's usually in connection with specific reference to the Union and not the Nation. Generally the British flag arouses more complaints from Scots and Welsh than from the PC brigade.

[ShadesWolf]

The PC rubbish is much exaggerated. St George flags are omnipresent whenever England play.


I totally disagree.

I am not talking about what people do, I am talking about local councils and governemt policy.

And the policy on the main is NO FLAGS from offical buildings or CARS.

This is an article from my local paper... (I want give the whole article just a few quotes.)


Patriotic truck drivers in our town have been banned by bosses from flying the flag during the world cup.............
For distric council employees, an unofficial ruling means the flags - already attached to authority vehivles must be removed immediately - It was felt that to display flags from council vehicles would be inappropriate
several councils across the country have also introduced unoffical rulings

AND WE ARE STILL OVER TWO WEEKS AWAY FROM THE FIRST MATCH.

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't really care anymore, because apparently I'm a racist.

[Tribesman]

Patriotic truck drivers in our town have been banned by bosses from flying the flag during the world cup.............
For distric council employees, an unofficial ruling means the flags - already attached to authority vehivles must be removed immediately - It was felt that to display flags from council vehicles would be inappropriate
several councils across the country have also introduced unoffical rulings

Thats outrageous , council workers are banned from decorating council vehicles . So I suppose that means the road-sweeper driver cannot put up a green party poster on the side of his cab , the dust cart driver cannot put a "no hand signals -driver masturbating" sticker on the back of the wagon .
Oh the horror , the oppression that these local government tyrants impose upon their employees .

What you really need Shades is a properly funded local authority program to ensure that all council vehicles fly properly approved flags during sporting occasions . It would be an appropriate waste of local tax revenue .:2thumbsup:
Though of course.....All you have to do is go to a cricket match to see how many people support the country of their birth.
....damn , thats a bit of a bugger isn't it , now you need to get some other flags , you wouldn't expect a Scottish dog warden in Hackney to put up with flying the St.Georges cross from his van instead of the St. Andrews one during the six nations would you . Just like you wouldn't expect an Indian Traffic Warden in Birmingham to have to stick a Union Flag in his hat rather than an Indian one during a Test Match .

[Duke of Gloucester]

All you have to do is go to a cricket match to see how many people support the country of their birth.


Good old Norman Tebbit's cricket test. In one sense, the cricket test does tell us something about how well integrated different ethnic groups are. It is worrying if 2nd, 3rd or 4th generations still support their ancestors' country rather than the adopted one. However I supsect that this tells us as much about how welcoming we are as it does about the willingness of people to adopt a new country. Besides, it's complex. I used to work with an Irishman who loved cricket. (He had moved to Liverpool when he was 8 and had played a lot at school and club level.) Like most Celts he used to enjoy English sporting failures, except cricket, where he would get even more annoyed than me about pathetic England performances. So here is a man who would support the opposition if England were playing football, but fanatically follow the cricket team. Integrated or not?


I am not talking about Uk cities, I am talking about English cities. Therefore, we have no excuse for not flying the English flag in english city.


Sorry to be nit-picking but what you originally said was (my bold text added):


In the UK we arent even allowed to have the English/ UK flag up in areas because it might offend other people.



As far as Im concerend it should be flown from EVERY flag pole on every English council building. PERIOD.

I am not sure why. If a council building is to fly a flag as a matter of course, surely it should be a flag with the arms of their district. Why St George's cross rather than the Union Flag or the EU flag? I can see why this should be encouraged on the 23rd April, but why on any other day?


This is an article from my local paper... (I want give the whole article just a few quotes.)

Quote:
Patriotic truck drivers in our town have been banned by bosses from flying the flag during the world cup.............
For distric council employees, an unofficial ruling means the flags - already attached to authority vehivles must be removed immediately - It was felt that to display flags from council vehicles would be inappropriate
several councils across the country have also introduced unoffical rulings

AND WE ARE STILL OVER TWO WEEKS AWAY FROM THE FIRST MATCH.

OK, that's stupid, if I understand it. I am not quite sure what "unofficial" means, though. No harm in truck drivers personalising their trucks with whatever national flag they want.

[ShadesWolf]

OK, that's stupid, if I understand it. I am not quite sure what "unofficial" means, though. No harm in truck drivers personalising their trucks with whatever national flag they want.

unoffical means that some do-gooder who is in the council is going around and telling them to take them down.

So if your boss said take that down, what would you do.

[Tribesman]

No harm in truck drivers personalising their trucks with whatever national flag they want.
Well the problem there is there are some real dickheads that get upset when their country loses , you know , little things like smashing up Pizza parlours if England lose to Italy .
Now how do you think a Tobagan driver would feel when he turns up for work on the 16th after a crushing defeat of England only to find that his council truck is trashed because it had a Trinidad Tobago flag on its roof ?

[ShadesWolf]

chip shops
Mcdonalds

you could take that argument to any extreme

[Dâriûsh]

This thread inspired me so much, I wish that I could fly an Imperial Iranian flag from my window.

I'll have to make do with a tiny little IRI flag though, or a prayer rug or something. :idea2:

[Duke of Gloucester]

Well the problem there is there are some real dickheads that get upset when their country loses , you know , little things like smashing up Pizza parlours if England lose to Italy .
Now how do you think a Tobagan driver would feel when he turns up for work on the 16th after a crushing defeat of England only to find that his council truck is trashed because it had a Trinidad Tobago flag on its roof ?


Well true. What I really meant was that the truck driver was not causing any harm, though I accpet he might put himself at risk.


So if your boss said take that down, what would you do.

If my boss told me to take it down, then I would, but I would complain if he or she allowed other national flags to be flown. If a random do-gooder told me to take it down, I would refer them to my boss.

[ShadesWolf]

If my boss told me to take it down, then I would, but I would complain if he or she allowed other national flags to be flown. If a random do-gooder told me to take it down, I would refer them to my boss.

So if your Boss made up his mind that he thought it was unacceptable or unappropriate to have the flag you would take it down and not complain.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Yes, because he is my boss. Of course, if I thought he or she had a malicious motive, I would complain, but otherwise I would comply with his or her instructions, partly because I believe in structure and authority, but mostly because I expect the same from my subordinates.

[ShadesWolf]

Just interested - who do you work for ?

[Duke of Gloucester]

Being a teacher, I work for one of those local councils that upset you.

[Brenus]

Sorry, I just went to the shop and I saw a lot of pink (these flags made in China, the colour diluted under the rain, and even if we have a drought, it is an ENGLIH drought, it is raining EVERY day…) crosses every where.:laugh4:

[SwordsMaster]

I have a Brazilian flag flying off my window, and never had any trouble, or anyone complaining....

[ShadesWolf]

I will say this once again, because it seems you are not listening.

I am not talking about people, I am not talking about shops........etc

I am talking about mainly councils and some larger firms...........

[Keba]

I am talking about mainly councils and some larger firms...........

Where I'm from the local Council has three flags, the country flag, the local flag (county flag), and the flag of a different country, because of the minority (which is a very, very big minority, but still a minority, actually, that's why the local county has two official languages, which is one more than the rest of the country). Most goverment buildsings also have the EU flag on them, in addition to the country flag.

As far as private property is concered, there is no problem with it, as long as you do not do something particularly offensive or damaging both to others and the state (such as say, hanging the flag of a different country with a large board saying that that country stretches past that particular house, or somesuch).

[Tribesman]

I will say this once again, because it seems you are not listening.

I am not talking about people, I am not talking about shops........etc

I am talking about mainly councils and some larger firms...........

Yep , and do you think that the council should allow its drivers to decorate vehicles which are council property not the property of the driver in any way that the driver wants ?
Or do you want the council to regulate and supply at tax payers expense decorations for its vehicles during sporting events ?

[Marcellus]

I will say this once again, because it seems you are not listening.

I am not talking about people, I am not talking about shops........etc

I am talking about mainly councils and some larger firms...........

My local council building flies two Union Flags, two St George's Flags and two borough flags. Far from discouraging flag flying, it would appear that my local council's promoting it.

[ShadesWolf]

Well good on your council.
Which London council might that be then ?

[Marcellus]

Well good on your council.
Which London council might that be then ?

Enfield.

[ShadesWolf]

How low is your council tax ?

Im not really surprised looking at your demographics, you do have 34 Tory councillors out of a total of 63.

[AwesomeArcher]

You guys are all getting off topic, this is about foreign flags in the U.S. not Britian. In the U.S. the American Flag is a symbol of freedom and oppotunity, people who we allow in this country should be grateful for the better life, they shouldn't go around disrespecting the U.S. flag by waving mexican flags all over the streets. I am fine with flying your birth nations flag, but maybe flying it equal with american flag would be a good solution.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

This goes along with the whole Illegal Immigration issue. I was visiting my cousins and aunt and uncle in Texas about a month ago. I saw some house with Mexican flags flying higher than the U.S. flag and some houses with just the Mexican flags flying. I also have seen on the news people waving mexican flags in support of Immigration. I can understand comming hear to get a better life, and the fact that the U.S. is based on both legal and illegal immigration, and maybe not being able to speak the english language perfectly. But if you are going to come hear and openly disrespect the country, i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.

That's a good point you make AwesomeArcher. :no:

[AwesomeArcher]

That's a good point you make AwesomeArcher. :no:

Thank you, finally some support.

[ZombieFriedNuts]

Why is flying another flag higher than the U.S flag so wrong

[AwesomeArcher]

Why is flying another flag higher than the U.S flag so wrong

It is disrespectful. Plain and simple as that.

[Idaho]

How low is your council tax ?

Im not really surprised looking at your demographics, you do have 34 Tory councillors out of a total of 63.
Heheheh... a rebel without a clue. Little englander in desperate search of a point to make :laugh4:

[ShadesWolf]

One of Tonys boys, or are u a liberal now.

Cant quite make your mind up who to follow.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Thank you, finally some support.

You're welcome.

If you've seen my other posts, you'll see, I'm not for illegal immigration, but I am very leniant, and I see why they do it and I want to protect them. One main reason why I want to attack the employers of illegals is because they don't pay minimum wage! All that asside though, I do think putting up the Mexican flag instead of the United States flag is something I'd shake my head about (possibly grinning at the same time), but it's not something I'd get in a fight about by no means. They love their motherland (as do you), and maybe they just want to show it. It's kind of a hard issue if you ask me.

[AwesomeArcher]

You're welcome.

If you've seen my other posts, you'll see, I'm not for illegal immigration, but I am very leniant, and I see why they do it and I want to protect them. One main reason why I want to attack the employers of illegals is because they don't pay minimum wage! All that asside though, I do think putting up the Mexican flag instead of the United States flag is something I'd shake my head about (possibly grinning at the same time), but it's not something I'd get in a fight about by no means. They love their motherland (as do you), and maybe they just want to show it. It's kind of a hard issue if you ask me.

Yea, it is alright for them to show, but dont flaunt it by flying the flag higher, put the two flags side by side at equal height that would be fine with most americans and they still get to fly their home colors.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yea, it is alright for them to show, but dont flaunt it by flying the flag higher, put the two flags side by side at equal height that would be fine with most americans and they still get to fly their home colors.

Maybe two flag staffs?

[Spetulhu]

The only flag that I know of that can be flown as high as the US flag in the US is Texas. I dont know about any other flags of any other country.

You are somewhat misinformed. While the Lone Star flag is certainly special to Texans, nothing in federal law makes it more special than any other state's flag.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texasflag.asp

[BHCWarman88]

This goes along with the whole Illegal Immigration issue. I was visiting my cousins and aunt and uncle in Texas about a month ago. I saw some house with Mexican flags flying higher than the U.S. flag and some houses with just the Mexican flags flying. I also have seen on the news people waving mexican flags in support of Immigration. I can understand comming hear to get a better life, and the fact that the U.S. is based on both legal and illegal immigration, and maybe not being able to speak the english language perfectly. But if you are going to come hear and openly disrespect the country, i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.



Extacly

It is 100% Disrespect when a Mexcian,who is NOT a American, And waving a Mexcian Flag,demanding to be a Amercian, and yet they Waving a Mexcian Flag and singing the Ahtemn in Spanish,that is a Disgrace..

[Scurvy]

I do think putting up the Mexican flag instead of the United States flag is something I'd shake my head about (possibly grinning at the same time), but it's not something I'd get in a fight about by no means. They love their motherland (as do you), and maybe they just want to show it. It's kind of a hard issue if you ask me.

i agree :2thumbsup:

[Duke Malcolm]

Dundee City Council flies, in precedence, the Union Flag, the Banner of the City of Dundee, and the Saltire from the City Chambers.
The Caird Hall, the most prominent building in the City Square, flies a plethora of international flags and there is no doubt some reason for them (I do not know)

Also, the Scottish Parliament flies the Union Flag, the Saltire, and the EU Flag from 3 of its 5 flag-poles, the others just sit naked.

My school occasionally flies a flag (Union or Saltire), usually on some event, such as Armistice Day, or upon the death of a member or ex-member of staff. I am going to petition my Rector to fly the Union Flag on flag-flying days, but we are off on Monday, so Victoria day shan't be one of them...

I find it silly that one can be offended at the flying of a foreign flag, unless it is from a Government building...

It is illegal to fly the Lion Rampant from buildings, though. One can be taken to the Court of the Lord Lyon King of Arms (a criminal and civil court of heraldic affairs) and duly charged with such. But I digress...

[Divinus Arma]

I don't have any problem with people having pride in their heritage. My wife's family is proud of their Irish roots, but they don't exactly wave flags around. And I like the fact that I am predominantly Fin since Finland has one of the highest rates of alcoholism in the world. But other than that, out loyalties all lie with America.

I don't have an issue with people privately displaying there flag of origin. Its when they pressure the government to change where I take issue. Even worse is when they push it off on other private citizens, screaming how they are the rightful owners of this country or something stupid like that.

It's sad. I love this country and to watch it be destroyed from within is heartbreaking.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I don't have any problem with people having pride in their heritage. My wife's family is proud of their Irish roots, but they don't exactly wave flags around. And I like the fact that I am predominantly Fin since Finland has one of the highest rates of alcoholism in the world. But other than that, out loyalties all lie with America.

I don't have an issue with people privately displaying there flag of origin. Its when they pressure the government to change where I take issue. Even worse is when they push it off on other private citizens, screaming how they are the rightful owners of this country or something stupid like that.

It's sad. I love this country and to watch it be destroyed from within is heartbreaking.

True.

Although sometimes I question it a bit. It sort of was their country (native americans) before we came, stole it and killed them all. I live in Texas so it's even more trivial for me. :inquisitive:

There is obviously nothing I or anyone can do about it. I'm happy to stay part of the United States, and I'd rather do that than move to the Mexican government. I just find some people don't see the truth in some of the things they say.

[Divinus Arma]

Uhm. Mexicans are not native americans. They are a mix of native americans and Spanish.

And besides, they have Mexico. They wouldn't come here unless their was an economic benefit. The movement to "reclaim" the Mexican territories of Aztlan is actually a Mexican-American embraced concept.

If they didn't get money, nobody from Mexico would care or try to come here.

[Duke of Gloucester]

And besides, they have Mexico.

..but they had a lot more Mexico before you guys took most of it.

[Duke Malcolm]

..but they had a lot more Mexico before you guys took most of it.

I must remember that one, I chuckled thoroughly.

[spmetla]

Of course after the Mexican-American war the US didn't just annex those territories but forced Mexico to sell them to us for 18 million dollars, less than the 30 million offered before the war (for comparison remeber Louisiana purchase was 3 million dollars). Then later on in the 1800s I know the US bought some more of mexico to settle a border dispute, in New Mexico Arizona area I think.

[Strike For The South]

Where in Texas was this? The mexican flag should be taken down and a Texas one should be put up.

[Divinus Arma]

Well, It's mine now and I intend to keep it.

Now pass the ****ing hot sauce. :sombrero:

[Tribesman]

The movement to "reclaim" the Mexican territories of Aztlan is actually a Mexican-American embraced concept.

Divinus the movement has its basis in "native descent" claims for their own State .
It was you who posted their charter/manifesto here wasn't it ?

[Divinus Arma]

But...yet...they...all...want...to...be...U.S. Citizens...

how odd.

[InsaneApache]

Indeed.

[Louis VI the Fat]

A flag itself is but a piece of cloth. It is the intent with which it is flown that matters.

It makes some difference if you wave a Mexican flag to show pride in your heritage, or if you wave it as a provocation, as a sign of reconquista.

But I think most Mexican flag waving is a result of Mexican(-Americans) feeling insecure, beleagered, insulted and humiliated. They flee into an excessive display of nationalistic pride. The more you attack them in their identity, the more staunchly they will stress it.

[Tribesman]

But...yet...they...all...want...to...be...U.S. Citizens...

how odd.

How odd indeed , that you take many different people , some from many different groups , and place them ALL under the Altzan banner , or even under the ALL want to be citizens banner .

[Duke of Gloucester]

But I think most Mexican flag waving is a result of Mexican(-Americans) feeling insecure, beleagered, insulted and humiliated. They flee into an excessive display of nationalistic pride. The more you attack them in their identity, the more staunchly they will stress it.

Exactly so. However the reason that others find the flag waving offensive is that they too feel insecure. This makes solutions to the problem difficult. There are close parallels with the problems associated with flying the cross of St George.

[Flavius Clemens]

It is interesting to see the difference in attitude on flag flying between the US and UK posters on this. For us, most of the references here are quite specific to support of the English football team in the World Cup, rather than general patrotism. First time I visited the USA I was struck by the flag flying, I have never seen a private home in Britain with a flagpole, and most official buildings don't fly a flag regularly. This isn't necessarily because we're inherently less patriotic than Americans, but because we do patriotism differently (would my fellow Brits agree that lots of flag waving would be seen as vulgar here?). The culture of the flag is certainly very different between the USA and UK, and it may be that the same is true for Mexico. I certainly would see immigrants as owing a degree of loyalty to their new state, but wouldn't attach the same expectations to temporary residents.

Oh, and on the points about councils banning English flags, locally at least some of the debate has been about the risk of flags on vehicles coming off and leading to accidents and law suits. Not an unusual fear in today's litigous culture, but daft imho.

[Tachikaze]

The whole concept of flags is stupid. They're useful on a battlefield, but I find that Americans treat them like holy relics. They displace energy they could be spending on community service (useful) to a piece of colored cloth (useless).

Americans have this annoying habit of caring more about symbols than the substance of what the symbol represents. Some want to spend energy and money making the burning of the US flag illegal, but are not willing to spend more taxes to care for citizens that need medical care and adequately fund the education system. That's the substance of patriotism.

If the immigrants feel an attachment to there home nation, it's in their minds, not on their flagpoles. Taking down the flag will not change that.

[AwesomeArcher]

The whole concept of flags is stupid. They're useful on a battlefield, but I find that Americans treat them like holy relics. They displace energy they could be spending on community service (useful) to a piece of colored cloth (useless).

Americans have this annoying habit of caring more about symbols than the substance of what the symbol represents. Some want to spend energy and money making the burning of the US flag illegal, but are not willing to spend more taxes to care for citizens that need medical care and adequately fund the education system. That's the substance of patriotism.

If the immigrants feel an attachment to there home nation, it's in their minds, not on their flagpoles. Taking down the flag will not change that.

What else would you use as a symbol of your country? :inquisitive: Yes, we armericans do care about our flag, it is a symbol of freedom and opportunity. What energy do flags take up?:inquisitive: It is already illegal to burn the US flag and that is a good thing. Americans do not spend more money on flags that healthcare and medication:no: , we barely spend any money on flags, most amercans own maybe one or two american flags that cost about $10, yea that is a lot of money. I agree that you can't change an immigrants attachment to his homeland in his heart and nobody should try to, but they shouldn't show their disrespect for our great nation by flaunting their flags in our country. :no:

[Divinus Arma]

How odd indeed , that you take many different people , some from many different groups , and place them ALL under the Altzan banner , or even under the ALL want to be citizens banner .

Ya. ALL.

And they all look the same too. :juggle2:

[Tachikaze]

What else would you use as a symbol of your country? :inquisitive: Yes, we armericans do care about our flag, it is a symbol of freedom and opportunity. What energy do flags take up?:inquisitive: It is already illegal to burn the US flag and that is a good thing. Americans do not spend more money on flags that healthcare and medication:no: , we barely spend any money on flags, most amercans own maybe one or two american flags that cost about $10, yea that is a lot of money. I agree that you can't change an immigrants attachment to his homeland in his heart and nobody should try to, but they shouldn't show their disrespect for our great nation by flaunting their flags in our country. :no:
Americans feel they are being patriotic by waving flags. In so doing, they are doing nothing to help their country. True patriotism is to give something of yourself (eg. time, money, etc.) to make the nation better and/or help fellow citizens.

Americans are displaying a false image by waving these flags, but really they want to spend their money on their own luxury, conveniences, and entertainment than pay taxes and take part in the political process to ensure those taxes are properly used.

The flags are a distraction away from true dedication to one's nation.

Funny, the Japanese have a very cohesive, well-operated society and I have almost never seen a national flag there. Maybe they're too busy to buy them because they're making a true contribution .

[Brenus]

“The whole concept of flags is stupid”.
No. I remember when the 3 colours went up, the flag opening to the wind, the pride, the emotion it gave to me (and my comrades) when we presented arms…
The flag is a symbol, and sometimes it is worth to die from a symbol. It is not only a piece of silk, it why hundred of thousands, millions died for, fight for, work for. Not only soldiers, but the unionists, workers, teachers, as well…
The flag is the union between people of a nation who don’t know each others but share the same values, ideal or ideas.
It is the link between me and my history, the same colors in 1789, in 1805, 1848, 1915 and 1945.

[AwesomeArcher]

Americans feel they are being patriotic by waving flags. In so doing, they are doing nothing to help their country. True patriotism is to give something of yourself (eg. time, money, etc.) to make the nation better and/or help fellow citizens.

Americans are displaying a false image by waving these flags, but really they want to spend their money on their own luxury, conveniences, and entertainment than pay taxes and take part in the political process to ensure those taxes are properly used.

The flags are a distraction away from true dedication to one's nation.

Funny, the Japanese have a very cohesive, well-operated society and I have almost never seen a national flag there. Maybe they're too busy to buy them because they're making a true contribution .

Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.

[Goalie]

Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.

nicely said, both this and your opening editorial like post.

[AwesomeArcher]

Thank you, i am always ready to defend america from disrespectful comments.:2thumbsup:

[rory_20_uk]

Sorry to burst your bubble... Comparison to Japan is IMO utterly irrelevant.

I imagine that the flag does indeed give you a sense of unity and freedom. As was mentioned before, that is good as your true freedoms and unity are obviously not as great.

~:smoking:

[Duke Malcolm]

Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.
Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The real problem for the US (at present) is that everyone is so busy waving/defending the flag they don't do anything to stop their government taking away the very liberties which the flag represents.

[AwesomeArcher]

Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.

Yea, i agree my statement was a little out of date and that we americans are a tad over patriotic, but today is memorial day in the U.S. and the house on my street all have a flag in their front yards, it is a pretty cool site, so flags work for the americans and the Japanese mindset works for them, so we are both good.

[Spetulhu]

Yea, i agree my statement was a little out of date and that we americans are a tad over patriotic, but today is memorial day in the U.S. and the house on my street all have a flag in their front yards, it is a pretty cool site, so flags work for the americans and the Japanese mindset works for them, so we are both good.

Hey, nothing wrong with hoisting your flag on a national memorial day. That's a custom I believe most every country that uses flags would honor. :2thumbsup:

[Tachikaze]

Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.
Not to mention that the Japanese did, indeed, have a wave of hysterical nationalism leading up to WW2. They were as obsessive about their flag as Americans about theirs today.

[Goofball]

You guys are all getting off topic, this is about foreign flags in the U.S. not Britian. In the U.S. the American Flag is a symbol of freedom and oppotunity, people who we allow in this country should be grateful for the better life, they shouldn't go around disrespecting the U.S. flag by waving mexican flags all over the streets. I am fine with flying your birth nations flag, but maybe flying it equal with american flag would be a good solution.

Just a question:

How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?

[Tachikaze]

Just a question:

How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?
Good point.

[scooter_the_shooter]

If you want to fly another flag above the stars and stripes or with out it there at all..... then leave! But imo state flags should be allowed to be above the US flag.


People say I cant say that cause of freedom of speech, but it goes both ways. you can put your flag up, and I can criticize it.:2thumbsup:

[AwesomeArcher]

Just a question:

How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?

It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.

[Keba]

... the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.

They were? I know they are in now, but I thought the Confederates wanted out of the U.S. ... and then you people had a big fight over who gets to leave and who doesn't and all that, and some people died (abotu a million), and then it was decided that the Confederates cannot leave the U.S. because the group with the stronger army says so.

EDITED for clarification.

[AwesomeArcher]

They were? I know they are in now, but I thought the Confederates wanted out of the U.S. ... and then you people had a big fight over who gets to leave and who doesn't and all that, and some people died (abotu a million), and then it was decided that the Confederates cannot leave the U.S. because the group with the stronger army says so.

EDITED for clarification.

I assume by your post that you arent american, is that correct? Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements, but most individuals fighting each other didn't hate each other, they were doing their duty. Yes, the bigger army did decide the aftermath. The confederates are still part of our history.

[Keba]

I assume by your post that you arent american, is that correct? Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements, but most individuals fighting each other didn't hate each other, they were doing their duty. Yes, the bigger army did decide the aftermath. The confederates are still part of our history.

I'm not American, which is why I'm confused, if someone in my country started waving a flag of a separatist group, it wouldn't be looked on kindly. The whole flag waving thing I can understand, but, as I said, I'm confused when someone goes around waving around flags of a different country.

I understand that they are a part of your history, but, then again, it would be akin to my waving a Hapsburg flag from my balcony ... it's weird.

[Tribesman]

Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements
Now that must get the prize for great understatements .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Goofball]

Just a question:

How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.

That may be the most incorrect statement I have ever seen posted in the backroom.

The Confederates committed treason against the USA, tried to appropriate American territory for their breakaway nation, and started a war that IIRC caused more American casualties than any other war ever. And that is completely ignoring the fact that they were in large part motivated to secede by their "noble" desire to preserve the institution of slavery.

The Confederate flag is the symbol of all of that. To complain about immigrants flying their native flags out of a sense of ethnic pride but have no complaints about born and bred American citizens flying a symbol of treason against their country is nothing but blatant hypocrisy.

[AwesomeArcher]

That may be the most incorrect statement I have ever seen posted in the backroom.

The Confederates committed treason against the USA, tried to appropriate American territory for their breakaway nation, and started a war that IIRC caused more American casualties than any other war ever. And that is completely ignoring the fact that they were in large part motivated to secede by their "noble" desire to preserve the institution of slavery.

The Confederate flag is the symbol of all of that. To complain about immigrants flying their native flags out of a sense of ethnic pride but have no complaints about born and bred American citizens flying a symbol of treason against their country is nothing but blatant hypocrisy.

I would doubt that that is the most incorrect statements, because i have seen stupider and more incorrect statements on this site. I agree that it sounds a little incorrect, but it does have truth in it. The rebs didn't commit treason, they felt that the rights of an individual state was greater than the whole country. The issue of slavery wasn't a huge issue until the war had begun and was in full force. Although it is a sort of symbol of rebellion, it is also a symbol of pride for what our country has overcome and how our country has healed and became whole.

[Goalie]

Goofball you brought up a good point, i dont wholehartedly agree with the waving of confederate flags in the U.S., but there is one fact that i can't get passed, that the Confederates were part of the U.S. before the war and they still are today. The mexican flag is not a part of the U.S. and is being waved partly by people who arent citizens in this country. I almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag. I know it is harsh, but if they use the law to defend them, then the law can be used against them.

[Proletariat]

I can't believe in the face of surging wage depression and grand-scale tax fraud, this and what language they're speaking while they rape us is what people care about.

:2thumbsup:

[AwesomeArcher]

Goofball you brought up a good point, i dont wholehartedly agree with the waving of confederate flags in the U.S., but there is one fact that i can't get passed, that the Confederates were part of the U.S. before the war and they still are today. The mexican flag is not a part of the U.S. and is being waved partly by people who arent citizens in this country. I almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag. I know it is harsh, but if they use the law to defend them, then the law can be used against them.

Saying that they dont have the freedom of speech is a little harsh, but i do see your reasoning for it. That is also a good point that confederate states are part of the U.S. and mexico is not. And yes, the illegal immigrant do abuse the law the freehealth care and welfare systems that the law provide. Then apparently the law goes away when it affects them badly. As i said before if you want to come into the country, do it the legal way. Even if the wait is long, you have to realize that a country can only hold and provide for so many people.


I can't believe in the face of surging wage depression and grand-scale tax fraud, this and what language they're speaking while they rape us is what people care about.

:2thumbsup:

lol, i agree that it isnt the biggest issue, but it is more of a pride issue than economic. That is a good point though.

[Papewaio]

It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.

...

The confederates are still part of our history.

Problem with implicit statements you end up following a trail of though that goes like this:

So does that mean that as Mexicans are not part of the U.S. they are the bad guys?

Lets see, it's okay to be a slave owner or the defender of slavery as long as you defend state rights.

But you are a bad guy for being a down trodden poor person trying to make a better life for your family.

===

Aren't Mexicans part of the history of Texas too? Surely there was like this war like between Texas and umm France... wrong point... oh yes like Mexico!

So by your own standards surely the Mexicans can fly their flags as readily as confederates... both of which at times have elements that state they want to separate from the USA.

[AwesomeArcher]

Problem with implicit statements you end up following a trail of though that goes like this:

So does that mean that as Mexicans are not part of the U.S. they are the bad guys?

Lets see, it's okay to be a slave owner or the defender of slavery as long as you defend state rights.

But you are a bad guy for being a down trodden poor person trying to make a better life for your family.

===

Aren't Mexicans part of the history of Texas too? Surely there was like this war like between Texas and umm France... wrong point... oh yes like Mexico!

So by your own standards surely the Mexicans can fly their flags as readily as confederates... both of which at times have elements that state they want to separate from the USA.


The illegal immigrant here in the U.S. are in a sense bad guys. They are illegal for one, that is self explanitory. They steal healthcare and jobs. I already said that slavery wasnt a cause of the civil war. I do feel sorry for the "down todden poor person", but there is nothing i can do for them. Our great country can't help every needy person in the world, we would if we could, but we simply cannot, unless you have a brilliant idea.

I dont really get your last statement. What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that the texans fought france, because that would be incorrect. Mexicans are part of the history of texas, but they arent part of texas itself. We fought them at the alamo and the rest of the war for Texas Independance.

[Tribesman]

almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag.
So foriegners don't have freedom of speech and cannot wave the mexican flag , but if they are Americans then they have freedom of speech and can wave whatever flag they want .
Hmmmm..... i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.
....but if they are Americans and want to wave any flag they want then they have no freedom of speech unless they leave the country??????.

I dont really get your last statement. What exactly are you saying? :inquisitive: Mexicans are part of the history of texas, but they arent part of texas itself. We fought them at the alamo and the rest of the war for Texas Independance.
But Texas was part of Mexico , and when Texas fought at the alamo it wasn't part of the US itself . And when a Texan flies the Confederate flag he is disrespecting the US flag by flying the symbol of treason aginst the US that was used by people who tried to leave the US .

Flags , a piece of cloth that carries a lot of crap with it .

[Duke of Gloucester]

The illegal immigrant here in the U.S. are in a sense bad guys. They are illegal for one, that is self explanitory. They steal healthcare and jobs.

I thought this thread was about ethnic Mexicans flying a flag. I don't think you can tell by looking at a flag whether the person who raised it is a legal or illegal immigrant or a descendent of people who lived in that region before it was annexed by the US.


I already said that slavery wasnt a cause of the civil war.

Sorry AA, that is just a ridiculous statement. I have seen convincing arguments that there were other causes to the Civil War and no-one would disagree that abolition was not an original war aim for the North, but I have never heard a convincing argument that slavery was not the main cause. To state that it was not a cause at all is a shocking distortion of history.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Talking of which...


Mexicans are part of the history of texas, but they arent part of texas itself. We fought them at the alamo and the rest of the war for Texas Independance.

The revolt was against a Mexican dictator, not against all Mexicans, and as I understand it, there was no ethnic cleansing following independence

[spmetla]

Although the slavery was in effect the cause of the civil war it was technically really just a fight about states rights vs the federal goverment. The issue was should the federal goverment regulate slavery? The south thought each state should decide for itself, the north thought the federal goverment should decide for all. Bear in mind there were several slave states that fought for the north.

As for the Texas, bear in mind that Mexico had a weak corrupt goverment around when the Texans rebelled. The Texans outnumbered the Mexicans. Northern mexico (including the American southwest) was never really settled like the rest of Mexico was by the Spanish. Central and South Mexico was were the money and population was at, the north was poor, dangerous (indian attacks), and relatively forgotten by the Spanish Provincial and later Mexican population. So when the Mexicans invited Americans to settle it was primarly to try and bring American money to a poor region due to the expected increase in trade. The backfire was that of course once these Americans outnumbered the local Mexicans they didn't want to be part of Mexico anymore.
Also when the majority of Americans moved to Mexico it was with slaves because it was legal at the time in Mexico but when slavery was abolished in Mexico in 1827 this made for a lot of unhappy settlers.

Later on during the Mexican-American war the American settlers of California pulled a texas and rebelled against the local Mexican goverment and created the Republic of California.

[Duke of Gloucester]

If we really want to be technical the war was about whether states had the right to secede. It is not wholly correct that the south thought each state should decide the slavery issue. The Fugitive Slave Act was federal law that forced states to return escaped slaves whether they wanted to or not. The Confederate States decided to secede because they perceived that the tide was turning against slavery and saw a smaller confederation as the best way of preserving it. Of course there were social differences between North and South, but these also centred on slavery.

The American settlers in Texas were quite happy to be under Mexican rule, majority or minority; it was Santa Ana's dictatorship that pushed them in to rebellion.

Still, we agree that

Slavery was the main cause of the civil war
Mexicans are part of Texan history

[Ja'chyra]

The illegal immigrant here in the U.S. are in a sense bad guys. They are illegal for one, that is self explanitory. They steal healthcare and jobs. I already said that slavery wasnt a cause of the civil war. I do feel sorry for the "down todden poor person", but there is nothing i can do for them. Our great country can't help every needy person in the world, we would if we could, but we simply cannot, unless you have a brilliant idea.

I dont really get your last statement. What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that the texans fought france, because that would be incorrect. Mexicans are part of the history of texas, but they arent part of texas itself. We fought them at the alamo and the rest of the war for Texas Independance.

I was under the impression that this was given to them by the US or US employers, maybe you could explain how they manage to steal jobs?

[Strike For The South]

The civil war was about states rights very few pepole owned slaves and even less fought. We wouldve won to if it wasnt for the potato.

[Duke Malcolm]

A potato stopped the CSA from winning?

[Redleg]

A potato stopped the CSA from winning?

He is making the anology that the Irish Potato Famine and the influx of Irish immigrants into the North - which boosted the North's manpower via the active recruiting (some might say impression) of Irish immigrants into the Federal Army.

Now while there is some fact to the statement. Even without the Irish Immigrants the North would of still won in the end. The North has a larger population, and more important a larger manafacturing and economic base then the southern states.

The South was on the losing end of the war from the gitgo. They were hoping for a strong enough victory on the battlefield to weaken the resolve of the people supporting the Federal Government, and bring if not the active support of several European Nations - at least the recongization and economic support of those nations. Several Battles did indeed come very close to accomplishing this goal - but in the end the south was doomed to failure then second it open fire. It just did not have the resources to fight the North on its own.

[Redleg]

A flag is just a representation of the individuals interpation of what they hold important and value. For instance I have absolutely no problem with a person of Mexican Hertiage flying the national flag of Mexico in their home. If they Fly it with the Flag of the United States - then it should be flown on the left hand side of the United States Flag. But frankly most people do not understand the protocals that go with flying the different flags. So it doesn't really matter at all unless it is a Federal, State, or local government facility. Then the protocal must be followed.

[Tribesman]

If they Fly it with the Flag of the United States - then it should be flown on the left hand side of the United States Flag.
That is because the United States is right .~;)

[Redleg]

If they Fly it with the Flag of the United States - then it should be flown on the left hand side of the United States Flag.
That is because the United States is right .~;)

Only on United States soil is it right....:laugh4:

[Strike For The South]

Mexicans only make up 55% of illeglas. All illegalls need to leave. The only problem is mexicans being with legal mexicans and pretty much centered in 4 states have become the focal point. For the last time this isnt about race its about the economy and assimalation. I like tequlia and breakfest tacos as much as the next guy but this is about much more than that. They diran the healthcare and actually believe atzlan can be achived. THey bring poverty. As Pape said we had a war with Mexico becuase we didnt like being part of Mexico. Wether it was the anglo settlers or the mexicans whom lived there

[AwesomeArcher]

I was under the impression that this was given to them by the US or US employers, maybe you could explain how they manage to steal jobs?

How do they not steal jobs. Even in the illegal immigration thread that was on here, a few people said that their jobs were taken by illegals. They are willing to work for minimum or lower wages, most americans wont take those jobs. Also if you have an american who wants $15 an hour and an illegal immigrant who wants to work for $12, who are you going to hire? Regular americans pay for their healtcare with their taxes. People's taxes should be used elseware, so one could argue pretty stongly that illegals are stealing healthcare and jobs.

[AwesomeArcher]

If we really want to be technical the war was about whether states had the right to secede. It is not wholly correct that the south thought each state should decide the slavery issue. The Fugitive Slave Act was federal law that forced states to return escaped slaves whether they wanted to or not. The Confederate States decided to secede because they perceived that the tide was turning against slavery and saw a smaller confederation as the best way of preserving it. Of course there were social differences between North and South, but these also centred on slavery.

The American settlers in Texas were quite happy to be under Mexican rule, majority or minority; it was Santa Ana's dictatorship that pushed them in to rebellion.

Still, we agree that

Slavery was the main cause of the civil war
Mexicans are part of Texan history


How can you say that the war was about whether states had the right to secede and then later say that slavery was the main cause of the civil war? :inquisitive: No not everyone agrees with your two statements. I am pretty sure that slavery isnt the main cause of the civil war, and i am pretty sure that most educated people feel that way. That is the way we learned it in school and what i have read it in books on the civil war. I agree that it was a cause of the civil war, but it wasn't the Main cause.

[Duke of Gloucester]

OT but interesting nevertheless.


How can you say that the war was about whether states had the right to secede and then later say that slavery was the main cause of the civil war? No not everyone agrees with your two statements. I am pretty sure that slavery isnt the main cause of the civil war, and i am pretty sure that most educated people feel that way. That is the way we learned it in school and what i have read it in books on the civil war. I agree that it was a cause of the civil war, but it wasn't the Main cause.

Easy. It is clear, I think, that the war was not about slavery. As Abraham Lincoln himself said, "We must settle this question now, whether in a free government, the minority have the right to break up whenever they choose." He also said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with slavery in the states where it exists." In 1861 Congress backed this war aim. But why did the states secede? It was because of the election of a president hostile to slavery. Thus slavery was the main cause of the civil war. Some, including SftS, say that it was about state rights, but I reject this notion because if the Confederate States really cared about state rights, then they would never have pushed for the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act. Crucial to understanding what I said is the difference between war aims (what the war is about) and the causes of the conflict (why the war started).

If you are really being taught in school that slavery was only a minor issue in the civil war, then I am disgusted.

The "we" in the statement refers to me a spmetla and follows as a result of what he said in the post imediately before mine.

[spmetla]

You're absolutely correct duke gloust. I was just trying to point out a bit more technical argument about the cause of the civil war although not trying to deny that slavery was the cause. You've definately shown yourself well read on the subject so there's not need to go discuss it further.

As for Mexico, the Texans didn't just rebel because Santa Anna was a dictator but also for the economic difficulties brought about by the abolishion of slavery in Mexico. This later on became a problem again when the US was deciding whether to annex Texas or not because the abolisionists argued that because slavery was illegal prior to the creation of the Republic of Texas it should remain illegal but because Texas was in the south (I know there's a bit more to this but too lazy to look it up right now) it should be brought into the union as a slave state.

[AwesomeArcher]

OT but interesting nevertheless.



Easy. It is clear, I think, that the war was not about slavery. As Abraham Lincoln himself said, "We must settle this question now, whether in a free government, the minority have the right to break up whenever they choose." He also said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with slavery in the states where it exists." In 1861 Congress backed this war aim. But why did the states secede? It was because of the election of a president hostile to slavery. Thus slavery was the main cause of the civil war. Some, including SftS, say that it was about state rights, but I reject this notion because if the Confederate States really cared about state rights, then they would never have pushed for the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act. Crucial to understanding what I said is the difference between war aims (what the war is about) and the causes of the conflict (why the war started).

If you are really being taught in school that slavery was only a minor issue in the civil war, then I am disgusted.

The "we" in the statement refers to me a spmetla and follows as a result of what he said in the post imediately before mine.

Can you say off topic? Enough about the civil war and texas and back to the flags please. I think most can agree that slavery was a cause maybe even a major one, that is one's own opinion, but it wasnt the only major cause.

[Goalie]

Can you say off topic? Enough about the civil war and texas and back to the flags please. I think most can agree that slavery was a cause maybe even a major one, that is one's own opinion, but it wasnt the only major cause.

Yea, i can agree with that. I still agree with archer about the biggest cause and why the war was fought, but duke made a solid arguement about slavery being the main cause and why the war was fought, but i think archer summed it up nicely. Now back to the mexican flag issue. Goofball, i have seen more politically incorrect, stupider, and more incorrect statements on this forum. Ja'chrya your must not be informed too well, immigrants stealing jobs is one of the biggest issues. enough about the mexicans in texas. Texas is part of the U.S. now, not mexico. And anyone can be well read on a subject these days, i search on google could find just about anything we have said on this forum, not to doubt you duke, but i am just saying that anyone can google a topic and get a load of information.

[AwesomeArcher]

almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag.
So foriegners don't have freedom of speech and cannot wave the mexican flag , but if they are Americans then they have freedom of speech and can wave whatever flag they want .
Hmmmm..... i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country.
....but if they are Americans and want to wave any flag they want then they have no freedom of speech unless they leave the country??????.

I dont really get your last statement. What exactly are you saying? :inquisitive: Mexicans are part of the history of texas, but they arent part of texas itself. We fought them at the alamo and the rest of the war for Texas Independance.
But Texas was part of Mexico , and when Texas fought at the alamo it wasn't part of the US itself . And when a Texan flies the Confederate flag he is disrespecting the US flag by flying the symbol of treason aginst the US that was used by people who tried to leave the US .

Flags , a piece of cloth that carries a lot of crap with it .

Perhaps you missed the word "illegal immigrant" in my post, americans have the right to fly any flags they want, as long as they follow the proper protocol. In my statement "i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country, i was talking about illegal immigrants, not U.S. citizens, who have the full rights of freedom of speech. Next time please quote my whole post and not bits and pieces that can be taken out of meaning.

[Papewaio]

Also if you have an american who wants $15 an hour and an illegal immigrant who wants to work for $12, who are you going to hire? Regular americans pay for their healtcare with their taxes. People's taxes should be used elseware, so one could argue pretty stongly that illegals are stealing healthcare and jobs.

Incorrect, it is the employer that pays the taxes on behalf of the employee. The person not paying taxes is therefore not the illegal immigrant it is the employer who is exploiting him or her. The employers are only a half step above that of slave owners. They are using the situation the illegals are in to pay them as little as possible and avoid paying the government its due in taxes and I'm sure dodging Occupational Health and Safety regs and employee insurance too...

Oh and I'm pretty sure that the idea of Freedom of Speech is universal not just for people with a particular cardboard book with ink that states along the lines of "Citizen of the USA".

[AwesomeArcher]

Incorrect, it is the employer that pays the taxes on behalf of the employee. The person not paying taxes is therefore not the illegal immigrant it is the employer who is exploiting him or her. The employers are only a half step above that of slave owners. They are using the situation the illegals are in to pay them as little as possible and avoid paying the government its due in taxes and I'm sure dodging Occupational Health and Safety regs and employee insurance too...

Oh and I'm pretty sure that the idea of Freedom of Speech is universal not just for people with a particular cardboard book with ink that states along the lines of "Citizen of the USA".

Ok, thanks for the clarification, it was somewhat what is was saying but you put it better. Our statements both say that they are stealing jobs from regular citizens. As for your statement on the freedom of speech, that is not a worldwide practice, some backwards countries dont have the freedom of speech. I dont think anyone ever flat out said that they didnt have the freedom of speech, but here bettkicker said that he almost thinks that. I think that saying they dont have it is a little harsh, but i can see the reasoning that they dont have it.


Goofball you brought up a good point, i dont wholehartedly agree with the waving of confederate flags in the U.S., but there is one fact that i can't get passed, that the Confederates were part of the U.S. before the war and they still are today. The mexican flag is not a part of the U.S. and is being waved partly by people who arent citizens in this country. I almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag. I know it is harsh, but if they use the law to defend them, then the law can be used against them.

[Tribesman]

Perhaps you missed the word "illegal immigrant" in my post, americans have the right to fly any flags they want, as long as they follow the proper protocol. In my statement "i think you should go back and wave your flag in your own country, i was talking about illegal immigrants, not U.S. citizens, who have the full rights of freedom of speech.

Oh I see , it is awesomely clear now . So....
Next time please quote my whole post and not bits and pieces that can be taken out of meaning.
Oh dear , thats a bit of a bugger then ,since what I wrote was general response to your entire tone on the subject , all the way from post#1 , and you clearly made no distinction between citizens and illegals .