Mafia V: The Family Strikes Back [Concluded]

[Csargo]

It is better to kill than to abstain.

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

This is what I like to call a bandwagoning.:beam: Why did he do it? Who knows did he change his vote in the end NO. Was he joking around doubtful since he didn't change his vote.


Hmmm, why then are you desirous of lynching someone?

This was to Sasaki. As you can see from above this is from the guy that just bandwagoned Sigurd because he "could" be mafia with no other evidence than that.



If you saw the definitions of Wanax that Banquo gave, he also mentioned a Mycenaean priest-king or a Homeric word for king.

Now I have been doing a bit of research, and found out that there was a Macedonian general named "Craterus", who late became one of the Diadochi and thus a king. I therefore accuse Craterus of being one of the mafia.

Silver: Why do you accuse Banquo's Ghost of planting Wanax to get rid of Hepcat, when it is was posted in one of the kills again? Whoever did it, did not do it for the sole purpose of framing Hepcat.

Vote: Craterus

This is from SR quoting Myrd post from the GF2



Originally Posted by Myrddraal
Also did anyone else notice this:


and a Cessna Skyhawk flew into view.
Reminds me of Osmium and as such should be thoroughly ignored.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...e=UTF-8&tab=wi

Mafia will usually point out things they've put into the kills to try to frame or confuse the villagers. As Ignoramus did in the last post I quoted from him.


Craterus might have been hoping one of two things:

1.) That no one picked up on the definition of Wanax.

2.) That if even if someone did, it would be refuted by someone like Sasaki, who may well be the other mafia guy

Why would anyone use something that pointed to themselves in a kill? It's wouldn't be smart on their part. I highly doubt that Craterus would do something like that.

All this has me thinking that Ignoramus is a mafioso. Rookie mistakes that the mafia sometimes make in the beginning. Therefore my votes going with Ignoramus.

Unvote:DW
Vote:Ignoramus

[Zalmoxis]

Alright, I had breakfast, and then read the whole thing carefully. So far, I'm still not sure. Divine Wind seemed a good candidate as a mafioso, but it's more likely that he doesn't have enough time to get fully involved with the game. Proletariat seems to be in the same situation, but if so she should start voting and accusing based on logical claims.

I thought I'd have to post an Abstain, but I remebered someone mentioning something that connected Craterus to wanax, so I went back to that page. I've read that post and those succeding it. Since the author of that post was not fully and thoroughly scutinized to be proven innocent I'm gonna say it was him.

Vote: Ignoramus

[Banquo's Ghost]

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

It seems everyone has ignored my post, so I may as well accept the inevitable. :shrug:

Well, that might be an understandable but rash move.

Can you give me any reason why I should not now change my vote to you in order to save my own neck?

[Csargo]

I guess no one likes my facts

Edit:hahahaha I'm finally in front of Sasaki. :P

[Lord Winter]

I am not sure Divine Wind's behavior equals mafiosto. He did it in the Godfather I to with his snowmen of death retuine. RTWG is also suspious, the dective guise could hide his idenity as a mafiaoso. If all the current (or at least most of them) depend on BG being a mafioso then why not vote for him first?

Vote: BG
Edit: Left out the W in RTWG and turned equals sign to the word.

[Husar]

Silver, you may be interested to know that for the past few days Prole's internet has been limited to he internet cell phone. It is rather cumbersum to post using such a device, so it's no surprise she's posting one-liners. Now if she was posting one liners much earlier then you may have a point.

Cookie.
What do you mean by last few days? I was in the chat in the last few days and she was there as well, not using any cellphone, very bad excuse.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Destroyer of Hope

for bad grammar, a voting-reason I don't get(doesn't seem to make sense) and a whole lot of lurking.:thumbsdown:

[Reenk Roink]

Geez, this is a stark reminder that the world isn't always a nice place like Thanksgiving dinner at Grandma's... :no:

We have a lot of accusations this round, and so let me sort through them and decide.

Until then (and I'm very wary to say this given the repercussions :rolleyes:) I abstain, courteously. :bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Day Two Voting (as of 9:25pm EST)

Banquo's Ghost = 4 (Aggony Duck, Destroyer of Hope, Divine Wind, Sasaki Kojiro)

Divine Wind = 3 (God's Grace, Masy, Seamus Fermanagh)

Destroyer of Hope = 2 (Husar, Proletariat)

Ignoramus = 2 (Csar, Zalmoxis)

Craterus = 1 (Ignoramus)

Don Corleone = 1 (Banquo's Ghost)

Proletariat = 1 (Silver Rusher)

Sasaki Kojiro = 1 (Proletariat)

Abstain = 5 (Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Doc_Bean, Kommodus, Reenk Roink)

No Vote = 7 (Discovery1, Don Corleone, Drisos, Dutch Guy, Kagemusha, theRTWGuru, Xiahou)


Did I make any mistakes?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sigurd voted for Sasaki, not Prole.

Other than that, I confirm the count.

[discovery1]

I vote Ignoramus due to all the convincing arguements placed against him.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M GOING TO BE LYNCHED?!

[Csargo]

I vote Ignoramus due to all the convincing arguements placed against him.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M GOING TO BE LYNCHED?!

That's very convincing Disco. YOUR SURE TO BE LYNCHED NOW!:end:

[Ignoramus]

Again you're trying to lynch someone who's actually trying to be useful. I'm not suprised that the mafia keep winning.

[Lord Winter]

What do you mean by last few days? I was in the chat in the last few days and she was there as well, not using any cellphone, very bad excuse.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Destroyer of Hope

for bad grammar, a voting-reason I don't get(doesn't seem to make sense) and a whole lot of lurking.
Many people are unvoting from BG to someone else. All I am saying is if we believe that BG is a mafiaoso then lets kill him first and not someone else for defending them to vigorously. we can always kill them next turn.

Edit: Wrong quote

[Csargo]

Again you're trying to lynch someone who's actually trying to be useful. I'm not suprised that the mafia keep winning.

I hope your not talking about you cause that's just not true. You've just pointed out things that you either put in there to frame someone or you just don't pay attention in the other games cause when something is put in a kill it's usually to throw the villagers off.

[Death Match]

Okay, here is my final warning to the Mafia
KILL ME AS I AM THE DETECTIVE!!!

[Drisos]

sorry for my inactiveness, will try to keep a closer look on this game from now on. ~:)

Vote: Abstain

[doc_bean]

Vote: Reenk Roink

I have nothing to go on for anyone, but his abstaining annoys me, might as well not post. Perfect mafia cover.

[Banquo's Ghost]

It seems that overnight I have moved back into death row.

Sorry, DW, there's no reason for me to suspect you other than your desire to lynch me for speaking out, but self-preservation means I have to change my vote to you. Don C is clearly just on his holidays.

*thinks*.

Nope, I'm not going to meet my Maker with innocent blood on my hands.

Unvote: Don Corleone
Vote: Abstain

PS. I'm away visiting the rest of this weekend, so you can interpret my silence any way you lot want. :smile:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Wow Banquo, I must say, now that you've said you don't want innocent blood on your hands I'm completely convinced of your innocence ~:rolleyes:

of course you could only have tied it anyhow... :stare:


That post sounds far too calculated towards swaying the town's opinion. If you were town you would know you were innocent and you wouldn't know Divine Wind was, and so it would be in the best interest of the town for you to vote him.

My vote stays.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Reenk Roink

I have nothing to go on for anyone, but his abstaining annoys me, might as well not post. Perfect mafia cover.

As perfect as not posting too much but popping up to vote Reenk, who's always a popular choice?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

sorry for my inactiveness, will try to keep a closer look on this game from now on. ~:)

Vote: Abstain

I don't understand. If you've read the thread you must have some comment or other. Are you saying you haven't even read the thread? Or is this just a "oh look they're lynching the lurkers I'd better post something?" post?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What do you mean by last few days? I was in the chat in the last few days and she was there as well, not using any cellphone, very bad excuse.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Destroyer of Hope

for bad grammar, a voting-reason I don't get(doesn't seem to make sense) and a whole lot of lurking.:thumbsdown:

Hmm? That's not a particularly convincing reason to vote someone, especially after accusing disco of lying to help out prole. Why didn't you vote for one of them?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I vote Ignoramus due to all the convincing arguements placed against him.



Which are what, exactly? The argument against him is essentially the same as my initial argument against Banquo, without the addition of Banquo's extremely sketchy defense.

[doc_bean]

Honestly Sasaki, I don't see how you expect people to have figured out who the mafia are at this point. There's only been one night and a lot of the posters have been inactive due to thanksgiving. Sure the thread is already pretty long but not that much interesting has been said.

People pointed out the wanaka reference,
people pointed the bane of lurkers and abstainers,
people accused and defended BG

We don't have much to go on.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I disagree. There's been plenty interesting said, and plenty that will be interesting later on.

We've also lynched mafia round 2 before...and I was pretty sure Drisos was mafia in age of darkness and that was round 1 or 2.

[doc_bean]

I disagree. There's been plenty interesting said, and plenty that will be interesting later on.

We've also lynched mafia round 2 before...and I was pretty sure Drisos was mafia in age of darkness and that was round 1 or 2.

Well I was defending the head monk and the detective in that game, I just got lucky. Why did you suspect Drisos ?

Actually my awesome new method points to Drisos in this game, but his lack of posting due to absence (and being mafia in the previous game) made me vote for good ol' Reenk.

Maybe I should be more consistent ?

Unvote: Reenk
Vote: Drisos

changing votes is going to make me look suspicious isn't it ?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well I was defending the head monk and the detective in that game, I just got lucky. Why did you suspect Drisos ?

Actually my awesome new method points to Drisos in this game, but his lack of posting due to absence (and being mafia in the previous game) made me vote for good ol' Reenk.

Maybe I should be more consistent ?

Unvote: Reenk
Vote: Drisos

changing votes is going to make me look suspicious isn't it ?

I suspected Drisos because he was being accusatory unlike in past games. I don't find your change of vote on Drisos suspicious though, because his "I'm inactive, sorry" post in this game sounded a lot like his "not much time for mafia right now" post from last game, where he was guilty.

[Husar]

Destroyer of Hope = 2 (Husar, Proletariat)
[...]
Sasaki Kojiro = 1 (Proletariat)
Did I make any mistakes?
Yes.:sweatdrop:


Hmm? That's not a particularly convincing reason to vote someone, especially after accusing disco of lying to help out prole. Why didn't you vote for one of them?
This be very easy question to be answered by my humble townie virtual existance human being...the answer be:

One of them lied(or maybe just didn't know better?), but that does not make any of them necessarily mafia. Also notice that it didn't make you change your vote either, so why do you expect me to?

My voting for Destroyer of Hope is part of my bigger plan for saving universe from evil mafia, but, isn't it weird that suddenly all the lurkers pop up again?
Or was it just Drisos and Destroyer of Hope? Why do they pop up again and why is he not even trying to get his grammar/spelling right so people can understand what he wants them to know? I honestly couldn't understand what he wanted to tell me.

Then again, I read something that sounds like I should vote BG, but since I forgot what it was, I may have to read it again.:2thumbsup:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Day Two Voting (as of 9:25am 11/25/6 EST)

Banquo's Ghost = 4 (Aggony Duck, Destroyer of Hope, Divine Wind, Sasaki Kojiro)

Divine Wind = 3 (God's Grace, Masy, Seamus Fermanagh)

Ignoramus = 3 (Csar, Discovery1, Zalmoxis)

Destroyer of Hope = 2 (Husar, Proletariat)

Craterus = 1 (Ignoramus)

Drisos = 1 (Doc_Bean)

Proletariat = 1 (Silver Rusher)

Sasaki Kojiro = 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)

Abstain = 6 (Banquo's Ghost, Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Drisos, Kommodus, Reenk Roink)

No Vote = 5 (Don Corleone, Dutch Guy, Kagemusha, theRTWGuru, Xiahou)



:oops: Sorry for listing Prole' twice in the earlier count, as GH noted, it was Sigurd who cast a vote for Sasaki. Prole' had voted for Sasaki earlier, and I had a brief moment of intellectual flatulence.

[Reenk Roink]

Vote: Reenk Roink

I have nothing to go on for anyone, but his abstaining annoys me, might as well not post. Perfect mafia cover.

You're still mad over the "A_friend" thing aren't you? :wink: ~;p

But seriously, can somebody actually tell me how abstaining is a mafia cover? And why I am the only abstainer (out of several) who gets this [crap]?

[Masy]

Righto Divine Wind:


He voted for me. Firstly, I will admit that I am hurt by his accusation

Hurt? I dread to think how you survive in the real world Masy. Its just a game, I meant nothing by it. I just randomly selected you from the group of abstainers. Nothing was meant in it to annoy you or critiscise you. Just random.

It's ok, I was in fact joking (Ironic eh.) In order to play the game, however, I find it's best to leave all my nice aspects (Of which there are some, I assure you) outside the thread. Role play and all that.


GAH! Im being stalked! Do I need to get the police involved?! Im currently working long hours at my new job, so any break I get are usually spent looking at the Medieval 2 forum for 5 - 10 minutes. Hence why I dont post in the mafia thread until I get back from work

Fair enough, (and btw I just looked at your public profile when you aroused my suspicions, I honestly don't keep time logs of mafia players...) you may not have had time to create a vote. I realize my argument is not the most concrete and damning in the world, but the game has gone for only 2 rounds, and you're the one I suspect the most at this time.

In all, a respectable reply DW. However:


I dont think bandwagoning achieves anything Yes indeed. But yet, you vote for Banquo's Ghost nonetheless, without an argument for your case. That, compiled with my previous suspicions,keeps my vote as it stands.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You're still mad over the "A_friend" thing aren't you? :wink: ~;p

But seriously, can somebody actually tell me how abstaining is a mafia cover? And why I am the only abstainer (out of several) who gets this [crap]?

Because you always abstain when you're town, so if you were mafia you could just abstain every round and no one would be the wiser.

[Xiahou]

Well, after a mind-numbing read of 4 pages of back posts....

Vote: Divine Winde
Based on his own comments and the subsequent discussion, he seems most suspicious.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, after a mind-numbing read of 4 pages of back posts....

Vote: Divine Winde
Based on his own comments and the subsequent discussion, he seems most suspicious.

What, specifically?

[Xiahou]

It was mainly the "let's kill the happy people, LOL" post. I found Masy's response persuasive as well. I had been thinking of voting for BG, but I found his defense credible.

Of course, there's a strong possibility that both are innocent.... but we have to start somewhere, no?

[discovery1]

Which are what, exactly? The argument against him is essentially the same as my initial argument against Banquo, without the addition of Banquo's extremely sketchy defense.


Actually, I didn't know who to vote for and I was too lazy to sift thru all the posts and actually come to a decisions. Csar told me to vote for Ignoramus, so I did and just spewed out some reason.

Will I be lynched for voting for Reenk on the grounds he goes to Michigan?

[doc_bean]

You're still mad over the "A_friend" thing aren't you? :wink: ~;p

:laugh4: No, it's the fact that you keep abstaining that makes you such a good target. Your posts don't say anything about your thoughts.

Besides, I already changed my vote.

[Dutch_guy]

Will I be lynched for voting for Reenk on the grounds he goes to Michigan?

Probably

:balloon2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting over.

We have a tie vote between Divine Wind and Banquo's Ghost.

As much as I hate to drag out this session even further, it must be done.

There will be a re-vote. You can only vote for DW or Banquo. Voting will end in about 24 hours.

~~~~~

Here is the voting tally for Round 2:

Divine Wind: 4 (Masy, Xiahou, Seamus Fermanagh, God's Grace)
Banquo's Ghost: 4 (Sasaki Kojiro, AggonyDuck, Divine Wind, Destroyer of Hope)
Ignoramus: 3 (Csar, Zalmoxis, discovery1)
Destroyer of Hope: 2 (Proletariat, Husar)
Craterus: 1 (Ignoramus)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Proletariat: 1 (Silver Rusher)
Drisos: 1 (doc_bean)

Abstained: 8 (Craterus, Kommodus, Reenk Roink, Crazed Rabbit, Drisos, Banquo's Ghost, Dutch_guy, theRTWGuru)
Didn't vote: 2 (Don Corleone, Kagemusha)

[Reenk Roink]

Because you always abstain when you're town, so if you were mafia you could just abstain every round and no one would be the wiser.

But we know that's not true. I've actually voted for someone 6 times now since I've started abstaining.

I voted Masy for being suspicious and then investigated him as detective to confirm: he was a mafia

I voted Sasaki for extreme suspiciousness in the Kage/Sasaki thing: you were a mafia

I voted Destroyer of Hope in a retaliation vote: he was a mafia
I voted Csar in a retaliation vote: he was a doctor :oops:
I voted and then personally killed AggonyDuck as a vigilante: he was a mafia

I voted Hepcat to save my skin: we don't know what he was

Obviously the good karma for being a responsible voter is there... :wink:

It's much better than the List...~;p

But I will give you guys my thoughts next time so you can do your psychology or what not and stop voting for such a stupid excuse... :rolleyes:

Edit: GH posted the kills and I have read the thread. I'm leaning on Banquo's Ghost because the arguments against him are decent, even though they may have been a bandwagon. That and I don't know much about Divine Wind to have anything incriminating. Not going to vote yet until they talk or time runs out...

[discovery1]

Vote: Banquo's Ghost because the coin landed heads.

[Masy]

Vote: Divine Wind

As before.

[Csargo]

Vote:DW

Fricken Sasaki spaming the thread.

[Dutch_guy]

Vote: Divine Wind.

Either DW, or BG. And I simply don't think it's BG, even though the arguments put forward to contain some logic.

:balloon2:

[Divine Wind]

Yes indeed. But yet, you vote for Banquo's Ghost nonetheless, without an argument for your case. That, compiled with my previous suspicions,keeps my vote as it stands.

My reasoning was to save my own neck. There is no conclusive evidence against anyone in this round, so its unfortunate that my comments were blown way out of proportion, and im now in a tie vote for the lynching. :no:

The argument you put against me could be used against anyone, if worded differently. Nevermind.

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

[Csargo]

Unvote:DW
Vote:Abstain

Screw that you guys can kill whoever you want.:whip:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Banquo's Ghost, his defense was suspicious and I don't see any logic at all in the case against divine wind...Masy seemed to accuse him mainly of joking around.

[Csargo]

Vote:Banquo's Ghost, his defense was suspicious and I don't see any logic at all in the case against divine wind...Masy seemed to accuse him mainly of joking around.

And you accused BG because of Wanax and because his defense is "suspicious" how so Sasaki?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Right, I'm going to throw a big treatise in here:

Vote: Divine Wind

Why?



1) He voted for me. Firstly, I will admit that I am hurt by his accusation, but more importantly he voted for me on the basis that I abstained. Aside from that being a weak reason to vote, he compiled this with a 'humorous' joke, a joke, I believe, intended to make himself appear friendly, likable and trustworthy. These are all tactics I tried when I was mafia, making joking asides to 'lighten the mood', and to make myself appear less serious. The taking-part-for-a-bit-of-fun-don't-really-care-about-the-consequences approach is one I find quite suspect:



Again, he makes a lighthearted post, a post no doubt intended to 'merge' himself with the townies. After all, a mafioso wouldn't criticize themselves, surely?



2) He was last active at 12:11 today, and yet has not voted in this round. That's fine, on it's own, but compounded with his 'light' posting leads me to believe he is deliberately avoiding a vote (to stay under the radar, no doubt). Perhaps he's trying to mix in with the people who couldn't vote because of the thanksgiving.

Not unique to Divine Wind. There were quite a few lurkers at the time this was posted. Also he has never been a big poster so this isn't suspicious for him.


3) He claims he wants the crowd gone, yet I believe he's the (pretending to be) neutral one. He votes, yes, but he doesn't want to appear a band wagoner (as mafia sometimes are), so he votes for someone who at that time was not in danger of a lynching. When people look back at folk's posting records, he'll stay under the radar, because he didn't bandwagon, yet nor did he miss many votes. I believe he's trying to be an 'average' player, one who doesn't
miss many votes (because I'm sure he's smart enough to know that inactivity would work against him), and one who doesn't draw attention to himself with the votes he casts. People who are talkative and confrontational (Sasaki, Csar etc) always find themselves under suspicion (as I surely will be soon), and I believe that is what he's trying to avoid.

Again, there are several people who haven't voted on a wagon:

Destroyer of Hope: 2 (Proletariat, Husar)
Craterus: 1 (Ignoramus)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Proletariat: 1 (Silver Rusher)
Drisos: 1 (doc_bean)


So all we're left with is "he is trying to appear innocent" which isn't particularly suspect since townies don't want to appear guilty...it might be mafia behavior it might not.

His defense has been satisfactory to me. I'm not ruling him out but he doesn't seem very guilty and there isn't much of a case against him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And you accused BG because of Wanax and because his defense is "suspicious" how so Sasaki?

Patience my young apprentice.

[Kommodus]

Still on vacation, but found a few minutes to log in and catch up on the thread. A tie vote? Hm...

They're probably both innocent, but having read most of the posts here, I really don't buy the arguments against BG. They look too much like various faulty arguments that I've seen before.

Therefore, vote: Divine Wind. There may not be much against him either, but I think BG is innocent.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, suspicious thing number 1:


The Wanax appears to be a reference to a Mycenaen priest-king, or a general Homeric word for king - or, with the grape references, there is a possibility that it links to a Maori place name Wanak/Wanaka where grapes are grown.

Given the apparent megalomania of the first killer in his desire to usurp the Frontroom, I tend towards the former. Better informed villagers than I may have some further insights into the person who would be conversant in Mycenaen tradition.

Thus to satisfy myself, I shall go with my second theory, and accuse the New Zealander amongst us:

Vote: Hepcat

He knows what the reference is. This means he is either mafia or one of the few townies who bothered to google it. As I said, it's been a mafia strategy in the past to put something in the kills to frame somebody, and Banquo's vote on Hepcat put him in the lead.

I point this out and he replies with this:


Unless that's what the Mafia want you to think. Sasaki trying to kick the chocks away from a bandwagon for what purpose?

Yet I am a rational man, and have no reason to change my vote to Sasaki - for now.

Other villagers may see it differently.

He thinks it's suspicious that I'm trying to end a bandwagon I started :inquisitive:


Unless of course, you are trying to draw attention away from yourself. Now that would be rational.


If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort?


Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?

Side note: this last is just as playful as anything DW has posted, and is followed up with:


OK, we have clearly established that I'm the clueless newbie.

I'll sit back for a few rounds and watch the adults play.

:bounce:

Anyway, I accuse him he accuses me. An easy way of discrediting your an accuser is to make people think they are suspicious--if they are guilty you are innocent. It reminded me of times in past games, say for example the godfather 2 when I accused Myrddraal and promptly got voted by him and the other two mafia. Or in Cosa Nuova:


Nope I wasn't contradicting myself. Last game, any small chance at taking a mafioso was worth it (we had 2 mafia and 1 detective). This game (when I posted) we had more power roles than mafia, so a random lynch was obviously not to our advantage. I was also interested to see who would try and lynch anyway. The two of you seem quite eager.


It seems like you saw how popular a choice I was last game and are trying to get me lynched.

Where I got accused by Kagemusha and doc_bean and tried to make them look suspicious while voting someone else. I was mafia btw ~D

Also, take Drisos as mafia:


Sasaki is very eager to lynch Prole... though he doesn't seem to have more evidence then just reading Prole's posts.. is there more to it? or should we better vote you off instead, sasaki?

Same tone as Banquo.


The practical thing would be for me to try and move a small band-wagon in Sasaki's direction, but I am now convinced he's an innocent, for the same reasons I know have brought me to this pass, despite my innocence - he has spoken forthrightly and openly - a mafioso wouldn't make such a song and dance to bring the unwelcome attention of the unthinking mob upon himself.

This doesn't sound genuine to me. Not very concrete, but there you have it. It would be a sound mafia strategy not to vote your accuser (note how he's now convinced I'm innocent, granted he hasn't been around these last few games but I post this much even when I'm mafia). The town doesn't mind lots of posting as he suggests later in the post, it minds lots of voting. He makes an effort to appear very town friendly. Also, his vote on me would hardly have closed the gap.


It seems that overnight I have moved back into death row.

Sorry, DW, there's no reason for me to suspect you other than your desire to lynch me for speaking out, but self-preservation means I have to change my vote to you. Don C is clearly just on his holidays.

*thinks*.

Nope, I'm not going to meet my Maker with innocent blood on my hands.

Then we get this little gem. He's not going to vote DW because he doesn't want innocent blood on his hands. How sweet. Nevermind that if Banquo was a townie it would be in the towns interest to vote for DW. This looks calculated to make him appear innocent. I would not be the least bit surprised if his next post was: "But if I was mafia, why wouldn't I have voted DW? It wouldn't be tied right now if I had. See, I must be innocent."


Well, there you have it. We can't be certain of much at this stage, but we can be certain that Banquo is far more suspicious than Divine Wind.

[AggonyDuck]

I'll stick with my earlier vote for BG.

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

[Csargo]

Unvote:Abstain
Vote: BG

Alright Sasaki you've convinced me. His little innocent ploy is what really changed my mind. I must have missed that earlier.

[Zalmoxis]

Can't decide even after reading Sasaki's argument..
Vote: Abstain

[Reenk Roink]

Geez Sasaki... That is uncharacteristic of you to present such a comprehensive argument... :laugh4:

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

[Husar]

Well, oh well, since one of them will die anyway and BG seems more suspicious given his innocent post about blood and his hands etc, I will:

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

[Silver Rusher]

He knows what the reference is. This means he is either mafia or one of the few townies who bothered to google it.
But googling wanax doesn't even come up with anything even slightly related to the place name, so the latter cannot be possible, despite that being what he has claimed.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Wow Sasaki, you sure did go at this one chapter and verse.

I was skeptical of the "evidence" against BG before, hence my vote for DW. Now, I am not as sure...you argue compellingly (and from the text with supports).

I'd love to get another response from both on the points raised....hmmm.

Also, from my games with you, when you get into this argument framework, your track record for ferreting out mafiosi is pretty fair.

[Lord Winter]

As before
Vote: Banquo's Ghost

[Sasaki Kojiro]

But googling wanax doesn't even come up with anything even slightly related to the place name, so the latter cannot be possible, despite that being what he has claimed.

Yes that's very interesting, good point. I don't suppose you could show us the link and how you got there Banquo?

[Csargo]

The Wanax appears to be a reference to a Mycenaen priest-king, or a general Homeric word for king - or, with the grape references, there is a possibility that it links to a Maori place name Wanak/Wanaka where grapes are grown.

I've done some searching and it seems that BG was telling the truth. If you search Wanax on Google it will end up saying about Mycenaean Society or something here.

http://www.geocities.com/i_georganas/society.html

If you searched on Wikipedia you'll end up at Anax which is the Greek word for King. It you read down a wee bit you get the word Wanaka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanax

Wanaka is a city in NZ on the southern island. Small place positioned on around a lake. It does have Vineyards around it.

http://www.atoz-nz.com/wineries.asp

Any person who didn't know what they were looking for would have never found this most likely. Not the Mycenaean Greek thing but the fact that there are Vineyards around Wanaka. It took me a while googling Wanaka to find it. But I did eventually.

This leads me to believe that BG knew what he was looking for in order to find out about Wanaka and Vineyards in there. I hardly doubt he just googled it and found out he did some searching around for some time to find it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I still don't see how you get from "Wanax" to "Wanaka"...they don't seem related in the slightest.

[Csargo]

I still don't see how you get from "Wanax" to "Wanaka"...they don't seem related in the slightest.

I explained that right up there in that post Sasaki:guitarist:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I explained that right up there in that post Sasaki:guitarist:

There's no "Wanaka" on that wikipedia page.

[Csargo]

There's no "Wanaka" on that wikipedia page.


The word anax derives from wanakt-' (ϜΑΝΑΞ, ϜΑΝΑΚΤΟΣ), and appears in Mycenaean written as wa-na-ka (������). The digamma ϝ was pronounced w and was dropped very early by eastern Greek dialects (e.g. Ionian).


Right there buddy.:sweatdrop:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh. Curse you, Hyphens! That's what I get for relying on QuickSearch.

[Csargo]

Oh. Curse you, Hyphens! That's what I get for relying on QuickSearch.

This is pretty hard to find mind you anything to do with Wanaka and Vineyards since there's only two around the town and considering the fact that it's a small town if you can even call it that more like a resort.

[doc_bean]

Vote: Divine Wind

Sorry guys, killing people for knowing stuff is not my idea of justice. I don't really think DW is mafia (he might be) but I still think BG is innocent.

[Csargo]

Does anyone read anything I post?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Divine Wind

Sorry guys, killing people for knowing stuff is not my idea of justice. I don't really think DW is mafia (he might be) but I still think BG is innocent.

Why do you think he's innocent?

[Csargo]

Why do you think he's innocent?

Cause there buddies Sasaki. Going around killing the Villagers. Aren't you doc? Don't lie to me I know the truth.:whip:

[Death Match]

It Is A Warning To The Mafia!!! Here Is Your Chance To Kill The detective!!

[Death Match]

Okay, I will help the mafia!

Vote: theRTWGuru

[Csargo]

Okay, I will help the mafia!

Vote: theRTWGuru

You can't do that you have to vote BG or DW RTWG. I don't know what your trying to pull but I doubt it will work. I think you may need :help:

[Masy]

I don't see any logic at all in the case against divine wind...Masy seemed to accuse him mainly of joking around.

I have already admitted that my argument against DW was not water tight, but he's the one I suspect at this time, and hence I voted for him. I did not really expect many others to agree, (indeed, it works better for the town if everyone voices their own opinions), but I think it is important to suspect people, because if we all act super-nice to one another then that works to the mafias advantage. It's entirely possible that DW is innocent, but I recognized something which was suspicious to me, and thats how I voted. If no-one else felt the same, then he wouldn't be at risk of a lynch. On the other hand, some of those who voted for DW could well be the in mafia (bandwagon strategy), and likewise those who voted for Banquo's Ghost...

[doc_bean]

Why do you think he's innocent?

I don't think he would have inserted the reference and then pointed it out himself. Gut feeling I guess. It's pretty much the same as when I sided with Kage (iirc ?) against you when you both claimed to be the detective.


It Is A Warning To The Mafia!!! Here Is Your Chance To Kill The detective!!

Wow, you haven't played many mafia games before haven't you ?

If they kill you at night, the village gains nothing. If they don't kill you, you have a good chance of getting hanged. If you claim to be the detective later, there's a good chance no one will believe you anymore.

Also, you have to vote for Divine Wind or Banquo's Ghost

[Sigurd]

Giving a red herring like Wanax or the hat with grapes is only useful if they actually point to a particular player. But you can’t drag such herrings out of thin air. The herring planter must have had knowledge of the Wanax or Wanaka and the connection with grapes beforehand.
BG could be such a knowledgeable player given his profession.

Are there any other players that could have had this knowledge? Any researchers for any of the mods in this game?

It could also very well be just a mafia trying to write a little story and the hat with grapes or wanax is part of that story. The second kill description indicates this. It could also be the invention of GH.

Devine Wind is claiming to have no time playing mafia… personally I would just jump on that bandwagon to help him not get fired in his new job.

Vote: Devine Wind

[Proletariat]

From a role-playing perspective, none of the other games happened. Please try to start fresh, it makes it more fun for everyone.

Just curious, is this rule a joke? Tons of people in this thread have based their entire arguments off of previous games.

Anyway, to get a vote in while I'm near a computer, Vote: Divine Wind

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I just can't decide.:juggle2: I had pretty much made up my mind to follow Masy's lead, but now he himself is showing some doubt. Sasaki is adamant -- and has lodged 3 successive votes for BG. I guess I'll follow that lead.

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

I hope its on target....

[Silver Rusher]

Right there buddy.:sweatdrop:
Hmm... this is a tricky piece of evidence to figure out. I would still say that the fact he pulled that out simply because of the grape reference is very unusual. However, something strikes me about this not being something a mafioso would do. Also, I accused him before. I now believe Banquo's Ghost is innocent.

Vote: Abstain

[Craterus]

I think they're both innocent, and I'm finding it really hard to make a decision.

Vote: Divine Wind

BG adds more to discussion. Hypocritical reason, I know.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting over.

Stand by for the execution.

(anyone by any chance know what page the last status list was on?)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I make it 9-7 banquo.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Chief of Police Beirut yawned. Although the voting period had only taken the standard few hours, for some strange reason it seemed like days. Nevertheless, the voting had ended and the tie had been broken.

Banquo's Ghost had been chosen to get the chainsaw in the runoff vote. Somewhat reluctantly, Beirut called him up to the execution platform. Banquo groaned and deliberately did everything very slowly. After about a minute of this dawdling, he was finally pushed up to the platform by some angry villagers, led by Sasaki Kojiro.

"Banquo's Ghost, you have hereby been found guilty of murder and conspiracy to commit murder by the good people of the Frontroom. Your fate is sealed, but have you anything to say before you are executed?"

A sad look crossed Banquo's face. "No," he said simply.

Wow. The crowd certainly wasn't expecting that. He struck most of the villagers as the type to launch into a soliloquy at this time, but Banquo was done talking.

Beirut whispered something into his ear, and Banquo just shrugged. Sighing, the Chief of Police addressed the crowd once again.

"Here we execute another member of the Frontroom. Let's hope for all our sakes that he was a mafioso." Beirut looked like he wanted to say more, but didn't. Instead, he took out the chainsaw and quickly decapitated the condemned.

"Okay, that's all folks. Go home."

Here is the voting total for Round 2a:

Banquo's Ghost: 9 (discovery1, Divine Wind, Sasaki Kojiro, AggonyDuck, Csar, Reenk Roink, Husar, Destroyer of Hope, Seamus Fermanagh) :skull:
Divine Wind: 7 (Masy, Kommodus, Dutch_guy, doc_bean, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Proletariat, Craterus)

Abstained: 3 (Silver Rusher, Zalmoxis, theRTWGuru)
Didn't vote: 8 (Kagemusha, Don Corleone, Xiahou, Crazed Rabbit, Ignoramus, Drisos, Banquo's Ghost, God's Grace)

~~~~~~~

Still alive: (26)
Seamus Fermanagh
Kagemusha
Craterus
Xiahou
Silver Rusher
Don Corleone
AggonyDuck
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Proletariat
Csar
Reenk Roink
Sasaki Kojiro
Destroyer of Hope
Kommodus
Zalmoxis
Dutch_guy
Divine Wind
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Husar
Masy
discovery1
Drisos
theRTWGuru
God's Grace

Killed:
UltraWar
Sir Moody
Pannonian
Evil_Maniac From Mars

Executed:
Hepcat
Banquo's Ghost

~~~~~~~

Prole: I guess. That was a rule I kept from the older games. It's kind of moot now.

[Banquo's Ghost]

oooOOOooOOOOoo ooOOOOOooo oOo OOOooo!

Spirit Guide: I get back from a lovely weekend to find I'm lynched! Ah well.

[Don Corleone]

Hi guys,
Sorry I disappeared without a word like that. I went to my parents' house for the whole Thanksgiving week, and their internet provider wouldn't let me access the Forums for some reason. 'Just go to the library', one might say, right? Well, the problem is the 'house' I'm speaking of is my parents' lake house up in central Maine. Nearest town was 20 miles away, on back roads. So, I'll try to read up, catch up, and if there's anything I can offer, I'll share where I can. Thanks for your patience.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kills will be up a little late (a couple of hours) today. Apologies.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. Save for the "click" noise being made every few seconds from one house.

Sasaki Kojiro was responsible for this noise. He had been making it all night, ever since he went back to his house after the extended execution meeting in the town square.

After a hard day’s work of talking so much in the villagers’ meetings so that no one else could get a word in, Sasaki went to his favorite recreational activity: taking pictures of himself. Sasaki wanted to be a model, and was set upon his goal, no matter that no agency had ever got back to him concerning his photographs.

So enamored in himself, he was blissfully unaware of the fact that his door was open and a shadowy figure was standing behind him.

When Sasaki ran out of film, the figure handed him a camera from behind: “Here, use this.”

Sasaki, still enamored in himself, did not realize the peculiarity of the situation, absentmindedly thanked the figure.

He had already snapped one photo by the time he realized what was wrong with this scenario. By then it was too late. Sasaki’s eyeballs had already disintegrated, and the deadly flash of the sabotaged camera was spreading to his brain.

“IDIOTIC FOOL!” the figure boomed, “YOU WILL NOT EVEN GET TO HAVE THE HONOUR OF GLIMPSING THE WANAX EATING HIS SACRED GRAPES BEFORE YOU DIE! SO HATEFUL WAS YOUR PATHETIC SPECULATION AND VAIN DISCOURSE CONCERNING HIM.”

Sasaki was beginning to lose vital functions, but the flash was slow acting, and so he suffered great pain as the Wanax continued: “IN FACT, EVEN THE WANAX IS UNCERTAIN CONCERNING WHY YOU ADDRESSED HIM INCORRECTLY AS “Wenax.”

“WAS IT AN INTENTIONAL INSULT OR ARE YOU JUST THAT STUPID?”

The voice of the Wanax calmed down: “Either way, your brain will serve you no longer.”

Sasaki was found dead in his home, lying among his many photos and mountains of film canisters and oddly enough, not one but dozens of the business cards found on the other murder sites. His face retained its natural colour, and was indistinguishable from when he was alive, except for the fact that his eye sockets were missing the eyeballs, and his skull was hollow. Nothing remained, not even ash.

Meanwhile, theRTWGuru was watching some old gangster movie. This was the fifth one he had seen since the killing began, which was odd since this was only the second day that he knew about the kills.

Guru wasn't sure about what he'd get out of all of these movies; perhaps there was a secret message in the films detailing how to defeat the mafia? As the movie finished, he still no ideas.

"Perhaps I need a more well-known movie to unlock this secret," he said to himself. "Now, what to pick... Aha! What better key than the one gangster movie everybody knows!" Smiling, Guru popped in The Godfather, pen, notepad, and popcorn handy.

As time passed by, he became more engrossed in the movie and the popcorn than the notes. You couldn't blame him; The Godfather was an excellent film! His favorite part was coming up. The tollbooth scene where Sonny died. Guru couldn't wait.

What he really liked best were the sound effects. He loved the sound of the many tommy guns firing, and breaking the class of poor Sonny's car.

--Hey - waitaminute! That breaking glass sounded real!--

Guru dismissed it as paranoia and began to settle back in. Sadly, however, he was dead wrong about the paranoia. The mafioso entered his house through the window, perfectly timed with the breaking windshield in the movie.

The mafioso was rewarded for his stealthiness by a totally unsuspecting Guru. He paused, aimed his gun, and double-tapped Guru behind the left ear. Certainly a much cleaner job than the massacre going on in the movie.

After checking to make sure Guru was dead, he removed one eyelid (that stupid Chief of Police had gotten it wrong - it was an eyelid, not an eye), and pinned a note to the corpse.

It simply read "John 16:24".

Later that day, Chief of Police Beirut gathered the remaining villagers in the town square. He was looking grimmer than ever.

"Gentlemen," he began, "the mafia have struck again. We must send them a message saying that WE - ARE - VIGILANT! Henceforth, the person with the most votes will be stoned to death. Obviously you are all invited to participate. Now get voting!"

Note to Sasaki: I'll tell you who to warn after the game ends. :hide: :tongue:

[Csargo]

Vote: Ignoramus

[Csargo]

Unvote: Ignoramus
Vote: God's Grace

Killing Sasaki was a stupid thing to do. Everyone knows (atleast everyone that has played mafia games for a while) that he gets more annoying after he dies :P Who ever did it was either a noob to the game or haven't played the game for a while. I don't think someone who has been playing the games lately would kill Sasaki it really a pointless thing to do. GG hasn't really played a Mafia game since GH's Mafia III.

Second point John 16:24 is obviously a quote from the bible. Now unlike other clues that have been posted this would have been hard to find the quote unless you know the bible pretty well. I don't know about alot of you but I don't read the bible alot and I don't know any lines from it. GG is a Christian a devoted one at that. That's not just coming from the name.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Killing Sasaki was foolish- he won't go away and we know now that he is innocent.

Could the Bible reference be a red herring, though? I don't think even The Spartan would post such an obvious reference to himself.
John 16:

"These things have I spoken to you, so that you wouldn't be caused to stumble.

2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time comes that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God.

3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me.

4 But I have told you these things, so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn't tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.

5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me,'Where are you going?'

6 But because I have told you these things, sorrow has filled your heart.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I don't go away, the Counselor won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment;

9 about sin, because they don't believe in me;

10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won't see me any more;

11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

12 "I have yet many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now.

13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.

14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you.

15 All things whatever the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine, and will declare it to you.

16 A little while, and you will not see me. Again a little while, and you will see me."

17 Some of his disciples therefore said to one another, "What is this that he says to us,'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me;' and,'Because I go to the Father?' "

18 They said therefore, "What is this that he says,'A little while?' We don't know what he is saying."

19 Therefore Jesus perceived that they wanted to ask him, and he said to them, "Do you inquire among yourselves concerning this, that I said,'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me?'

20 Most certainly I tell you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.

21 A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow, because her time has come. But when she has delivered the child, she doesn't remember the anguish any more, for the joy that a human being is born into the world.

22 Therefore you now have sorrow, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.

23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Most certainly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

24 Until now, you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.

25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. But the time is coming when I will no more speak to you in figures of speech, but will tell you plainly about the Father.

26 In that day you will ask in my name; and I don't say to you, that I will pray to the Father for you,

27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came forth from God.

28 I came out from the Father, and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

29 His disciples said to him, "Behold, now you speak plainly, and speak no figures of speech..

30 Now we know that you know all things, and don't need for anyone to question you. By this we believe that you came forth from God."

31 Jesus answered them, "Do you now believe?

32 Behold, the time is coming, yes, and has now come, that you will be scattered, everyone to his own place, and you will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33 I have told you these things, that in me you may have peace. In the world you have oppression; but cheer up! I have overcome the world."


Beirut whispered something into his ear, and Banquo just shrugged. Sighing, the Chief of Police addressed the crowd once again.

"Here we execute another member of the Frontroom. Let's hope for all our sakes that he was a mafioso." Beirut looked like he wanted to say more, but didn't. Instead, he took out the chainsaw and quickly decapitated the condemned.
We need to decide if there are any relevant clues in there. GH has put clues in before.

Crazed Rabbit

[Csargo]

Killing Sasaki was foolish- he won't go away and we know now that he is innocent.

Could the Bible reference be a red herring, though? I don't think even The Spartan would post such an obvious reference to himself.
John 16:

"These things have I spoken to you, so that you wouldn't be caused to stumble.

2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time comes that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God.

3 They will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me.

4 But I have told you these things, so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn't tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.

5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me,'Where are you going?'

6 But because I have told you these things, sorrow has filled your heart.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I don't go away, the Counselor won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment;

9 about sin, because they don't believe in me;

10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won't see me any more;

11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

12 "I have yet many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now.

13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.

14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you.

15 All things whatever the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine, and will declare it to you.

16 A little while, and you will not see me. Again a little while, and you will see me."

17 Some of his disciples therefore said to one another, "What is this that he says to us,'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me;' and,'Because I go to the Father?' "

18 They said therefore, "What is this that he says,'A little while?' We don't know what he is saying."

19 Therefore Jesus perceived that they wanted to ask him, and he said to them, "Do you inquire among yourselves concerning this, that I said,'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me?'

20 Most certainly I tell you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.

21 A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow, because her time has come. But when she has delivered the child, she doesn't remember the anguish any more, for the joy that a human being is born into the world.

22 Therefore you now have sorrow, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.

23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Most certainly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

24 Until now, you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.

25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. But the time is coming when I will no more speak to you in figures of speech, but will tell you plainly about the Father.

26 In that day you will ask in my name; and I don't say to you, that I will pray to the Father for you,

27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came forth from God.

28 I came out from the Father, and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

29 His disciples said to him, "Behold, now you speak plainly, and speak no figures of speech..

30 Now we know that you know all things, and don't need for anyone to question you. By this we believe that you came forth from God."

31 Jesus answered them, "Do you now believe?

32 Behold, the time is coming, yes, and has now come, that you will be scattered, everyone to his own place, and you will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33 I have told you these things, that in me you may have peace. In the world you have oppression; but cheer up! I have overcome the world."


We need to decide if there are any relevant clues in there. GH has put clues in before.

Crazed Rabbit

You have to remember that every other clue up too now has been called a red herring. He could use that as an alibi. Why would he use something that would link to himself? He thinks that no one will think anything of it and just call it a red herring. I still have to point that someone with Bible knowledge would be the only one able to find a quote that would be logical in such an occasion. If it is a red herring then the mafia probably wasted alot of time searching for something that would make sense in such a situation.

[discovery1]

Hmmm...

In the name of Wanax I ask for the true identity of the the mafia to be revealed.

[Ignoramus]

Unvote: Ignoramus
Vote: God's Grace

Second point John 16:24 is obviously a quote from the bible. Now unlike other clues that have been posted this would have been hard to find the quote unless you know the bible pretty well. I don't know about alot of you but I don't read the bible alot and I don't know any lines from it. GG is a Christian a devoted one at that. That's not just coming from the name.

I think that this is a red herring. I think this is an attempt to frame GG. With a name such as his, it would be the height of insanity for him to do that. I am a Christian too, and I wouldn't post verses from the Bible in my kills if I was one of the mafia.

[Csargo]

I think that this is a red herring. I think this is an attempt to frame GG. With a name such as his, it would be the height of insanity for him to do that. I am a Christian too, and I wouldn't post verses from the Bible in my kills if I was one of the mafia.

Already answered. I find it hilarious that you went after the Wanax but the bible quote is a red herring.:laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

I suspect Csar. Look at how his comments below don't make sense.


I was too busy picking on Reenk you see.:beam:

I'm not that evil though he hasn't even posted yet. After that though it's a free for all.:mean:

I'm coming for you Sasaki :inquisitive:

And then:


Unvote: Ignoramus
Vote: God's Grace

Killing Sasaki was a stupid thing to do. Everyone knows (atleast everyone that has played mafia games for a while) that he gets more annoying after he dies :P Who ever did it was either a noob to the game or haven't played the game for a while. I don't think someone who has been playing the games lately would kill Sasaki it really a pointless thing to do. GG hasn't really played a Mafia game since GH's Mafia III.

If it was so obvious, why post it? Here Csar indirectly points the finger rather lamely at GG. Saying that whoever did it was a noob or hadn't played in a while, and then nonchantly stating that GG hasn't played for a while.

Csar would have killed UltraWar, because he knew that UltraWar was a good player. Then in the voting that followed, Csar followed Sasaki's lead almost every time.

What has happened is that Csar made Sasaki think that he was innocent and then killed him. He could not have killed Sasaki straight away, otherwise everyone would have suspected him. Thus he waits a few rounds, avoids suspicion, and then strikes.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Interesting theory on Csar, and he did post a vote rather quickly following Sasaki's demise.:inquisitive:

Still, voting that quickly is usually a bad idea for mafiosi, no?

And is the quotation a simple link to Grace, a ruse to frame him, or a "reverse stupid" ploy meant to throw us off the scent (the original use of red herring by the way).

Too early to decide yet....I think you're going a bit quick Csar. Why?

Voting analysis will follow shortly, now that we have three votes and some reductions in suspects.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting analysis will follow shortly, now that we have three votes and some reductions in suspects.

You don't mean three "active votes," correct? Because so far only Csar has voted, if I'm not mistaken.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Here it is:

Persistent “inactive” voters (No votes/abstains)

All 3 votes: [note, the runoff is counted separately, even though there have been only two lynchings]

Don Corleone = 3 no votes (see earlier post)
Drisos = no vote, abstain, no vote

Inactive on 2 of 3 votes:

Craterus = no vote, abstain, Divine Wind
Crazed Rabbit = Reenk, abstain, no vote
Dutch Guy = abstain, no vote, Divine Wind
God’s Grace = no vote, Divine Wind, no vote
Kagemusha = Xiahou, no vote, no vote
Silver Rusher = no vote, Proletariat, abstain
Zalmoxis = no vote, Ignoramus, abstain


Observations:

* Sasaki (murdered night #3) is the only person to have voted for Banquo three times.
* Two people voted to lynch Divine Wind in the runoff after abstaining (Craterus) or not voting (Dutch Guy) in the primary vote.
* One person abstained in the primary and then voted for Banquo in the runoff (Roink)
* God’s Grace and Xiahou did not vote in the runoff after picking Divine Wind in the primary

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Holy hell, that was an awesome death. Almost...spiteful.

Anyway, I was going to go after Kagemusha, Zalmoxis and Disco this round.

[Lord Winter]

I'm suspious of Sigurd. If you noticed after the bandwagon on Banquo started Sigurd tryed to start a bandwagon on sasski, as if to try to save Banquo. Wouldn't this be a good mafia tactic? Start an bandwagon on a player who has always drawn fire from the crowd. Therefore:

Vote Sigurd

[Csargo]

I suspect Csar. Look at how his comments below don't make sense.



And then:



1.If it was so obvious, why post it? Here Csar indirectly points the finger rather lamely at GG. 2.Saying that whoever did it was a noob or hadn't played in a while, and then nonchantly stating that GG hasn't played for a while.
Csar would have killed UltraWar, because he knew that UltraWar was a good player. Then in the voting that followed, Csar followed Sasaki's lead almost every time.

3.What has happened is that Csar made Sasaki think that he was innocent and then killed him. He could not have killed Sasaki straight away, otherwise everyone would have suspected him. Thus he waits a few rounds, avoids suspicion, and then strikes.

If I'm so suspicious Ignoramus why didn't you vote for me?

1.When did I say it was obvious Ignoramus? Huh when.

2.Who else would kill Sasaki? Most likely not a veteran of the last few games. If you kill Sasaki then you prove him innocent it's better for him to be alive so he could be used as a scapegoat at a later time.

3.Why would I kill an innocent villager that thought I was innocent? That could be a useful tool in the long run that would be a stupid thing to do.

I would not kill Sasaki ever in a mafia game for reasons I've already stated.

I don't know what your trying to pull Ignoramus but I've got my eye on you.

[Csargo]

Interesting theory on Csar, and he did post a vote rather quickly following Sasaki's demise.:inquisitive:

Still, voting that quickly is usually a bad idea for mafiosi, no?

And is the quotation a simple link to Grace, a ruse to frame him, or a "reverse stupid" ploy meant to throw us off the scent (the original use of red herring by the way).

Too early to decide yet....I think you're going a bit quick Csar. Why?

Voting analysis will follow shortly, now that we have three votes and some reductions in suspects.

I was around and I had my suspicions if that makes me guilty then kill me off.

[Csargo]

Sad me and Sasaki have 50 posts. The closest person to us is Seamus with 25.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok I can think of 4 possible scenarios from these kills:

1) Spite. Banquo was mafia and they are getting back at me, they killed theRTWguru because he was insulting their intelligence.
2) They think I was the detective because of my persistance in pursuing Banquo
3) They are foolish and believed theRTWGuru and thought that killing me would be helpful
4) They are intelligent players and trying to appear foolish

[Xiahou]

Ok I can think of 4 possible scenarios from these kills:

1) Spite. Banquo was mafia and they are getting back at me, they killed theRTWguru because he was insulting their intelligence.
2) They think I was the detective because of my persistance in pursuing Banquo
3) They are foolish and believed theRTWGuru and thought that killing me would be helpful
4) They are intelligent players and trying to appear foolish
All interesting options. I tend to think it's 3 or maybe a combination of 3&4. Honestly though, were I mafia I don't see how I could see my way clear to target Sasaki... many people don't give full weight to his comments because he may be mafia- now he has been shown innocent by his death.

It seems probable that they really thought RTWGuru was the detective and then decided to kill Sasaki since they believed he was shown innocent and therefore lynchproof. If this is a "reverse stupid", it's a very daring one. :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's possible they believed I trusted them and thus wasn't dangerous as a confirmed innocent. However I trust nobody...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And im bandwagoning shamelesly.Sigurd is Mafia and we all know that!Vote Sigurd


I think il undo the deed,while Sigurdhttps://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/wink.gif is dangerous and should be put under the knife. Unvote Sigurd, vote Pannonian.There are many of you guys in stalemate there.Better start telling us why you are innocent.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-whip.gif

Thats good enough for now. My philosophy is simple come out on the open or die.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-smash.gif There are now so many players that a Mafia lurking tactic seems pretty easy.Unvote Pannonian, vote Xiahou



I read the excellent FAQ on the Mafia games and a thought struck me.

Since this is a GH game, surely the first round default position for us all should be to vote for Kagemusha, thus invoking the curse onto the Mafia right away?
Ok, those are the set of quotes from this game. Now, comparison to Mafia 1 in which Kagemusha was a mafioso:


Hmmm..Who threw the first stone.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-inquisitive.gif littlelostboy sounds so innocent name that he has to be the Mafioso.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_knight.gif

I believe these horrible deaths must have been a part of Lemurs,devious plan to take over the world.Off with his head!https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-skull.gif


Ironic that you have choosen to pursue lurkers, Kage, while you yourself only have 4 posts. Note that he has posted in other forums since then so he's lurking on purpose.

Kage was also a mafioso in age of darkness and you can see the same type of posting there. It is possible I suppose that you just happen to have the same posting style when you are innocent. But you have been lurking something fierce...trying to avoid attention?

[Kagemusha]

Nope im here.Maybe i havent been so active becouse i have no role in this game.Or then i may just have been occupied with other things. I aimed the lurkers in the first rounds to get them in the game. Sasaki i wouldnt have killed you becouse you are so suspicious all together.~;) But its someone who has been playing active in the last rounds,since mostly the mafia just cant keep their mouth shut since they are enthusiastic about their role. So i vote Destroyer of Hope

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Are you serious? How exactly has destroyer of hope been active?

[Kagemusha]

He came out of nowhere and voted Sigurd riding on your innocence. If i would be mafioso i would do what necessary to connect myself to you in positive way now that you are proven innocent. This game is pretty much about intuition,becouse there is hardly any real evidence.Just hunches. If i would be Mafia you would have seen me posting atleast in almost every round,becouse lurking like you sayed raises suspicion and i wouldnt want to do that now would i?:no:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah, but since you think mafia would be active if you didn't want to seem like a mafioso you would lurk.

[Kagemusha]

There are always two sides in the coin. Only thing i can suggest to you is to try to step in my shoes and try to consider would have i played the game like the Mafia has? I cant prove my innocence you only have to trust your intuition.This time im not Mafia.~:wave:

[doc_bean]

Well those kills were unexpected ...

I think someone is trying to frame Csar by killing Sasaki, or Csar really did it, what other possible reason is there for killing Sasaki ????.

But killing RTWguru ? that's very odd, do we have any complete noobs in this game ? Is someone just trying to act like one ?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, if this was an effort to "silence" Sasaki, then the mafia is going :oops:

Can anyone think of anything guaranteed to increase his participation more?

Not getting any clear read from the voting pattern yet, though posting the list of inactives seems to have spurred some renewed voting participation.

[Sigurd]

Unblinking eyes, obscure scripture, ancient king references and this peculiar hat with grapes, I don’t know what to make of it all.
Are we still dealing with two Mafiosi? I believe so. Obviously the unblinking eye/bible quoting Mafioso is religiously inspired, whether to plant suspicion or telling a story.
As I told the people in the chat, that scripture reference is not a common verse, and involves a certain degree of training to dig out. The unblinking eye, the symbol of God or the creator, the symbol of seeing ultimate truths missed by mere mortals suggests that we are involved in some kind of story here; a story that could point to Reeink Roink. If it is only a false clue we are berry picking.
My first thought when reading Sasaki’s murder was; who would use bold letters like that and use variations of the word stupid? My first thought was Silver Rusher, but he wouldn’t kill off Sasaki this early.
I am wondering who would kill Sasaki this early. I could only come up with myself if I were mafia. It is a bold move to declare Sasaki as an innocent and only an experienced mafia would make such a daring move to see if he/she could win anyway.

Also, the original text used the word retard (clue from chat), I guess this is an American swear word? This leads me to think that the Mafioso is either British or from Europe. To us Euros the use of Idiot would be far worse than retard as idiot is a severe form of retardation. i.e. the greatest degree of mental handicap.

GH is helping the religious Mafioso in the kill descriptions ref. EMFM and the Vorgon poetry, theRTWGuru and the Godfather film. Did he plant the scripture reference as well? I believe he did.
So who is this pantomime Mafioso that needs GH to write his kills and who is this Extrovert Mafioso with the ambiguous sexual orientation (Grapes in the hat? Come on!!)??

Vote: Drisos

For now…

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Can you confirm how much of the kills are written by you GH?

[doc_bean]

vote: God's Grace

The biblical stuff is pretty specific as has been pointed out. I'd see him killing Sasaki, and killing RTWGuru just to be sure.

[Kommodus]

Hm... couple of comments.

Guru's killer appears to have constructed the kill in such a way as to point to one of the following players:

1. Don Corleone
2. Silver Rusher
3. God's Grace

The reference to The Godfather could point to DC or Silver, while the reference to the Bible could point to DC or GG. (It could actually point to anyone who knows much about the Bible, including Crazed Rabbit, Xiahou, Kommodus, etc, but I think the above three are the primary targets.) Either the mafioso is trying to frame one of the above players, or he is trying to hide in plain sight. Based on past experience, I'd say the first option is more likely.

So who would try a frame-up like that? I think that either way we're dealing with an intelligent mafia team this time. I'm going to go with:

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

Hm... I actually have another suspect, but I'd like to wait for one more set of kills before I name him. Evidence is too scant right now, but after the next set of kills there will be more of it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, if you're going to argue like that, you'd be a more logical choice Kommodus. Especially since you've been known to do the story thing.

[Sigurd]

About the vorgon poetry and the Godfather reference, GH told us in the chat that they were his constructs.

[edit]: I didn't know CR was a bible thumper... I know RR is... and who is this God's Grace again?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Formally the spartan. If he was mafia GH would undoubtedly write the entries because his english isn't good enough.

[Reenk Roink]

[edit]: I didn't know CR was a bible thumper... I know RR is... and who is this God's Grace again?

Reenkmaistro is a "bible thumper"? :inquisitive: :no:

Can you show him where?

That destroys any credibility you had Sig, and it is quite suspicious you are making such a big deal of it...

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Edit: Actually, Destroyer of Hope is even more suspicious... He does come out of nowhere and vote for Sig. A known lurker...

Vote: Destroyer of Hope

Still, Sig, I want to know why you think me a "bible thumper"?

Too many suspicious people here...or am I just paranoid?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That's a little quicker to the draw than usual Reenk.

[Reenk Roink]

That's a little quicker to the draw than usual Reenk.

Hmm... If I vote for someone, I'm suspicious. If I abstain courteously, I'm suspicious. If I don't vote, I'm suspicous... :rolleyes:

[doc_bean]

Well, if you're going to argue like that, you'd be a more logical choice Kommodus. Especially since you've been known to do the story thing.

I considered voting for Kommodus too, or Seamus if he was trying to beat Kommodus' system. But then God's grace seemed like the safer bet for now.

[Sigurd]

Still, Sig, I want to know why you think me a "bible thumper"?

If I am not totally mistaken, I have seen your posts in some of the religious threads. And you do come over as a Christian apologist. Whether you 'know' your Bible (not in a biblical sense :sweatdrop: ) or not, I am merely guessing.

[Reenk Roink]

If I am not totally mistaken, I have seen your posts in some of the religious threads. And you do come over as a Christian apologist. Whether you 'know' your Bible (not in a biblical sense :sweatdrop: ) or not, I am merely guessing.

Eh?

I do object when people try to use one anecdote or incident to smear entire religions and their followers (usually happens with Islam, but also Christianity) a certain way (this thread is a perfect example (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=69838)).

Anyway, it may be helpful to look at past posting on religion (this thread is good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=69933)) to note people more likely to give away clues (like Silver searching the Monestary and EB forums for Thracian history buffs).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm... If I vote for someone, I'm suspicious. If I abstain courteously, I'm suspicious. If I don't vote, I'm suspicous... :rolleyes:

No. You're suspicious when you act different than usually. That hasty vote on Destro is quite out of character.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I considered voting for Kommodus too, or Seamus if he was trying to beat Kommodus' system. But then God's grace seemed like the safer bet for now.

I'm not sure I see the point in voting someone based on a kill that GH may have written. I also don't get the point about having to be a bible buff. I never held a bible in my life and I can go all Job 4:8 Leviticus 23:13 what have you. Or just flip it open to a random page and take that.

[Dutch_guy]

vote: God's Grace

The biblical stuff is pretty specific as has been pointed out. I'd see him killing Sasaki, and killing RTWGuru just to be sure.

That bible stuff may be specific, but it is also easily googled. Anyone with a limited amount of bible knowledge or with a somewhat large imagination and time on his hands would be able to come up with something like that.

Now Killing Sasaki was a strange move, don't quite see the reasoning behind that one - as it has been stated before, a now proven innocent Sasaki will keep on participating on his usual level.

Now on the Killing of RTW Guru...well, it seems he did get the (probably unwanted) attention he was looking for - but to what end ?

He not only gave the mafia a reason to kill someone whom left little to go on, posting wise, but also removed a (self proclaimed) detective. That is, if we give RTW guru the benefit of the doubt on that one. Which I don't by the way.

In short, I find the kill's to be misleading, at best - I have rarely seen such a blatent framing move since AggonyDuck's succesful one by the mafia in game one.

Now, needless to say, it can be seen from the entirely different side. This could be done, on purpose, by a fairly experienced player. A dubble-bluff if you will.

Taking the latter into account, it is hard to vote. I'm tempted to vote Doc bean, he eagerly bought the frame (if it is one) stating it would be safer to vote for God's Grace and that said, I would not be surprised if he'd try to appear stupid just to fool us all. PLus, this isn't quite the posting style an experienced player like Doc would use to post his vote/accusation.


vote: God's Grace

The biblical stuff is pretty specific as has been pointed out. I'd see him killing Sasaki, and killing RTWGuru just to be sure.


No vote yet, I'll vote based on the reactions I get.

EDIT: It seems I should learn to type faster, Sasaki beat me to some of the above ~:(

:balloon2:

[Reenk Roink]

No. You're suspicious when you act different than usually. That hasty vote on Destro is quite out of character.

Hasty?

Does not compute...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hasty?

Does not compute...

You usually wait for convincing evidence. There isn't any on Destro.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hi guys,
Sorry I disappeared without a word like that. I went to my parents' house for the whole Thanksgiving week, and their internet provider wouldn't let me access the Forums for some reason. 'Just go to the library', one might say, right? Well, the problem is the 'house' I'm speaking of is my parents' lake house up in central Maine. Nearest town was 20 miles away, on back roads. So, I'll try to read up, catch up, and if there's anything I can offer, I'll share where I can. Thanks for your patience.

So, watcha think?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'll join.

I'd forgotten this game was going on, sorry. I'll try to be more active, so I'm gonna read back on everything that's happened so far.

Alright, I had breakfast, and then read the whole thing carefully. So far, I'm still not sure. Divine Wind seemed a good candidate as a mafioso, but it's more likely that he doesn't have enough time to get fully involved with the game. Proletariat seems to be in the same situation, but if so she should start voting and accusing based on logical claims.

I thought I'd have to post an Abstain, but I remebered someone mentioning something that connected Craterus to wanax, so I went back to that page. I've read that post and those succeding it. Since the author of that post was not fully and thoroughly scutinized to be proven innocent I'm gonna say it was him.

Vote: Ignoramus

Can't decide even after reading Sasaki's argument..
Vote: Abstain

Hmm. You lurk until Seamus calls you on it. Then you drop a filler post excuses re-reading blah blah. I point this out so you have to make a follow up post, which jumps on a wagon because he "isn't proven innocent. Then you abstain in the revote.

You're the most suspicious kind of lurker, the kind who responds just enough only when prodded.

[Reenk Roink]

You usually wait for convincing evidence. There isn't any on Destro.

au contraire

DoH is exhibiting the same pattern of activity that he did in a game where he was mafia (and I correctly voted for him :wink:). Besides, if you read previous posts of mine, you will see that I am becoming wary of abstaining (courteously [:bow:]) due to the very reason that weak excuses for lynching are thrown against me. However, as you delightfully show, weak excuses need not be preceeded with abstention.

Vote: Destroyer of Hope

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I'm Catholic, but not extremely well versed in the bible. I would also not portray my mafia 'character' as a Christian.

The whole reference is probably a diversion - I don't think a Christian person would portray a Christian as evil. That is going off what I would do, though.

I'm confused right now. They killed Sasaki- proving him innocent, and they killed Guru, a relative newcomer.

So are they foolish, spiteful, or trying to appear foolish?

Crazed Rabbit

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmm. You lurk until Seamus calls you on it. Then you drop a filler post excuses re-reading blah blah. I point this out so you have to make a follow up post, which jumps on a wagon because he "isn't proven innocent. Then you abstain in the revote.

You're the most suspicious kind of lurker, the kind who responds just enough only when prodded.

Thanks for summing up for me, Sasaki!:2thumbsup:

Vote: Zalmoxis

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, I'm Catholic, but not extremely well versed in the bible.

:idea2: Isn't that redundant?

...sorry, couldn't resist. Sr. Mary Tate would probably be upset with me for that. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Confirming some of the stuff I put in the kills:

Everything in the kills is mostly stuff put in by the mafia, but as previously mentioned, the Vogon thing and the Godfather scene were put in by me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

au contraire

DoH is exhibiting the same pattern of activity that he did in a game where he was mafia (and I correctly voted for him :wink:). Besides, if you read previous posts of mine, you will see that I am becoming wary of abstaining (courteously [:bow:]) due to the very reason that weak excuses for lynching are thrown against me. However, as you delightfully show, weak excuses need not be preceeded with abstention.

Vote: Destroyer of Hope

And the same pattern as every game he was innocent in. Your excuse for changing pattern may be genuine or it may not...that remains to be seen.

[Csargo]

Well those kills were unexpected ...

I think someone is trying to frame Csar by killing Sasaki, or Csar really did it, what other possible reason is there for killing Sasaki ????.

But killing RTWguru ? that's very odd, do we have any complete noobs in this game ? Is someone just trying to act like one ?



I suspect Csar. Look at how his comments below don't make sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Csar
I was too busy picking on Reenk you see.

I'm not that evil though he hasn't even posted yet. After that though it's a free for all.

I'm coming for you Sasaki
And then:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Csar
Unvote: Ignoramus
Vote: God's Grace

Killing Sasaki was a stupid thing to do. Everyone knows (atleast everyone that has played mafia games for a while) that he gets more annoying after he dies :P Who ever did it was either a noob to the game or haven't played the game for a while. I don't think someone who has been playing the games lately would kill Sasaki it really a pointless thing to do. GG hasn't really played a Mafia game since GH's Mafia III.


If it was so obvious, why post it? Here Csar indirectly points the finger rather lamely at GG. Saying that whoever did it was a noob or hadn't played in a while, and then nonchantly stating that GG hasn't played for a while.

Csar would have killed UltraWar, because he knew that UltraWar was a good player. Then in the voting that followed, Csar followed Sasaki's lead almost every time.

What has happened is that Csar made Sasaki think that he was innocent and then killed him. He could not have killed Sasaki straight away, otherwise everyone would have suspected him. Thus he waits a few rounds, avoids suspicion, and then strikes.

Hmmm HMMMMM :guitarist:

[doc_bean]

In short, I find the kill's to be misleading, at best - I have rarely seen such a blatent framing move since AggonyDuck's succesful one by the mafia in game one.

Now, needless to say, it can be seen from the entirely different side. This could be done, on purpose, by a fairly experienced player. A dubble-bluff if you will.

Taking the latter into account, it is hard to vote. I'm tempted to vote Doc bean, he eagerly bought the frame (if it is one) stating it would be safer to vote for God's Grace and that said, I would not be surprised if he'd try to appear stupid just to fool us all. PLus, this isn't quite the posting style an experienced player like Doc would use to post his vote/accusation.



I vote with my gut, I said that before :laugh4:

Unless there really is a way to logically deduce who the mafia is, and I don't see that possible here yet. I've voiced my other suspicions so i don't know why you'd think I was trying to start a bandwagon (or whatever you thought I was doing).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well if you were mafia you would be trying to start a bandwagon.

[Csargo]

Well if you were mafia you would be trying to start a bandwagon.



suspect Csar. Look at how his comments below don't make sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Csar
I was too busy picking on Reenk you see.

I'm not that evil though he hasn't even posted yet. After that though it's a free for all.

I'm coming for you Sasaki
And then:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Csar
Unvote: Ignoramus
Vote: God's Grace

Killing Sasaki was a stupid thing to do. Everyone knows (atleast everyone that has played mafia games for a while) that he gets more annoying after he dies :P Who ever did it was either a noob to the game or haven't played the game for a while. I don't think someone who has been playing the games lately would kill Sasaki it really a pointless thing to do. GG hasn't really played a Mafia game since GH's Mafia III.


If it was so obvious, why post it? Here Csar indirectly points the finger rather lamely at GG. Saying that whoever did it was a noob or hadn't played in a while, and then nonchantly stating that GG hasn't played for a while.

Csar would have killed UltraWar, because he knew that UltraWar was a good player. Then in the voting that followed, Csar followed Sasaki's lead almost every time.

What has happened is that Csar made Sasaki think that he was innocent and then killed him. He could not have killed Sasaki straight away, otherwise everyone would have suspected him. Thus he waits a few rounds, avoids suspicion, and then strikes.

Hmmm HMMMM

I'm having alot of fun doing this.

Unvote:GG
Vote:Ignoramus

Should have done that a long time ago.:guitarist:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Doc, can you confirm that you are voting for GG? I think I saw it quoted but I'm not sure.

[Xiahou]

Vote: Zalmoxis

For erratic behavior.

I think it's pretty clear that the biblical angle is an attempted frame-up, but I wouldn't want to guess who's behind it just yet.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Here's another one. Drisos, you're acting very strangely.


me too

Exciting! Another chance to get my first run as mafia... I just hope I come out of the hat for once.

is that meant to me? what are you talking about?

Only one in game post:


sorry for my inactiveness, will try to keep a closer look on this game from now on.

Vote: Abstain

Which contributes nothing. Not your usual behavior. What's up?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Isn't that redundant?

Why yes.

I see the suspicious eye has turned towards Zalmoxis, for good reason, it would seem. Lurking and then popping up only briefly...

Vote:Zalmoxis

Crazed Rabbit

[Kagemusha]

Do i smell a bandwagon here?:inquisitive:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We may need that little wagon graphic thingee.

In my case, Sasaki (now known to be innocent _ RIP) startinged (<- oops, edited) the ball rolling but couldn't vote. This gelled something I'd been thinking about since posting the initial vote analysis list. Zal' might be able to derail this one, but after the last couple of games I respect Sasaki's hunting skills.

[Silver Rusher]

Hmm... Ignoramus or Csar... I believe one of them is mafia.

But I will go with Csar. If Ignoramus was a mafioso, he's made some really terrible mistakes. I also have some suspicions of Zalmoxis.

Vote: Csar

EDIT: Btw, forget what I said before about BQ being innocent. The fact that there are grape references in the kills and that he posted that wanaka thing points straight to him. (the way it was before I couldn't get any credit for being right either way and I need to repair my somewhat damaged record)

[Don Corleone]

I'm surprised you guys have actually let me get away with lurking for another 2 days like this. Only Sasaki noticed, doesn't miss a trick, that one....

I'm only 1/2 way through the thread because work is a zoo (usually happens when you're off for a week) and the power supply on my desktop at home is blown.

But, from what I can gather, the mafia is actually pretty sharp, though they're trying to look like a bunch of noobs.

Lurking and then popping up briefly would be a good reason to lynch over half of the town right now, so I can't go there. Zalmoxis won't be getting my vote. I'm standing by the "too clever by half" mafia theory....

Vote: Kagemusha

[discovery1]

Vote: Kagemusha

He's being suspicious in the chat, and annoying.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Disco. Well i guess i should be killed in each game just to be sure.:thumbsdown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Not that many people have voted. I'm going to extend time for a few more hours.

If anybody wants to send in the required PMs early, that's fine.

[Proletariat]

Hm, lot of meandering speculation the last day or so, and I'm not convinced anywhichway yet.

Vote: Abstain

Will probably change this after I get back from eating out tonight if voting is still open

[Ignoramus]

Vote: Csar

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Day #3 Voting thus far (as of 8:48 EST):

Zalmoxis = 3 (Crazed Rabbit, Seamus Fermanagh, Xiahou)

Csar = 2 (Ignoramus, Silver Rusher)

Destroyer of Hope = 2 (Kagemusha, Reenk Roink)

Kagemusha = 2 (Discovery1, Don Corleone)

Crazed Rabbit = 1 (Kommodus)

Drisos = 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)

God’s Grace = 1 (Doc_Bean)

Ignoramus = 1 (Csar)

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 1 (Destroyer of Hope)

Abstain = 1 (Proletariat)

No Vote = 9 (AggonyDuck, Craterus, Divine Wind, Drisos, Dutch Guy, God’s Grace, Husar, Masy, Zalmoxis)

[Husar]

I don't know, prole usually voted for someone, even if it was not based on anything and more for fun than anything else, now she starts abstaining for some reason?
Then again, she may change her vote.

discovery1 likes talking in capital letters which is why the first kill reminds me of him but that alone doesn't seem like a good reason.

I think I can buy into the Zalmoxis thing/bandwagon/whatever because, erm, others explained that...

Vote: Zalmoxis

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting over.

Stand by for the execution.

[GeneralHankerchief]

"Take a handful and pass 'em on!"

Those were the orders that Chief of Police Beirut had given to the Frontroom villagers shortly after he had closed the voting. A large bucket of stones were being passed around, since stoning to death was the method of execution for the day.

The only person who did not take a handful was Zalmoxis, who was to be the recepient of the stoning. In a day where a number of votes were thrown a number of different ways, his name came up most often. He was not happy to be executed with nothing near a majority of votes. He looked totally disgusted as he was brought up to the execution platform.

Once on the platform, Zal was puzzled. There was nothing to tie him to. There was nothing to stop him from running for it. But then Beirut brought out the stapler. The crowd cheered.

"Hey, what are you going to do with tha - OW!" Zal grunted as his feet were stapled to the platform.

Beirut now addressed the crowd.

"Gentlemen," he began, you have found Zalmoxis guilty, and he is thus sentenced to death by stoning. Zalmoxis, have you anything to say before you are executed?"

Zalmoxis, aware of how little saying things would help him, only replied: "Yeah. Don't be too hard."

"Okay," Beirut said. Wait for me to get out of the way - OW! WAIT FOR ME TO GET OUT OF THE WAY, YOU NITWIT!"

Cursing the villager who threw the rock, Beirut made a "fire" motion with his arm, and the stoning of Zalmoxis began.

The four people who had voted for him (Seamus Fermanagh, Xiahou, Crazed Rabbit, and Husar) were most enthusiastic with their throws, but eventually the other villagers joined in. After all, this was fun!

The stoning went on for about five minutes before Husar finally fired on-target and ended Zalmoxis' life (there, you happy?). The townspeople went home, all feeling happy deep down inside. Nothing better than an interactive execution.

Here is the voting total for Round 3:

Zalmoxis: 4 (Seamus Fermanagh, Xiahou, Crazed Rabbit, Husar) :skull:
Destroyer of Hope: 2 (Kagemusha, Reenk Roink)
Csar: 2 (Silver Rusher, Ignoramus)
Kagemusha: 2 (Don Corleone, discovery1)
God's Grace: 1 (doc_bean)
Sigurd Fafnesbane: 1 (Destroyer of Hope)
Drisos: 1 (Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Ignoramus: 1 (Csar)
Crazed Rabbit: 1 (Kommodus)

Abstained: 2 (Proletariat, Dutch_guy)
Didn't vote: 7 (AggonyDuck, Craterus, Divine Wind, Drisos, God's Grace, Masy, Zalmoxis)

~~~~~~~

Still alive: (23)
Seamus Fermanagh
Kagemusha
Craterus
Xiahou
Silver Rusher
Don Corleone
AggonyDuck
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Proletariat
Csar
Reenk Roink
Destroyer of Hope
Kommodus
Dutch_guy
Divine Wind
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Husar
Masy
discovery1
Drisos
God's Grace

Killed:
UltraWar
Sir Moody
Pannonian
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Sasaki Kojiro
theRTWGuru

Executed:
Hepcat
Banquo's Ghost
Zalmoxis

[Csargo]

Hmm... Ignoramus or Csar... I believe one of them is mafia.

But I will go with Csar. If Ignoramus was a mafioso, he's made some really terrible mistakes. I also have some suspicions of Zalmoxis.

Vote: Csar

EDIT: Btw, forget what I said before about BQ being innocent. The fact that there are grape references in the kills and that he posted that wanaka thing points straight to him. (the way it was before I couldn't get any credit for being right either way and I need to repair my somewhat damaged record)

Heh good job giving a reason. First time mafioso's sometimes do SR. Rookie mistakes is something I'de expect from Ignoramus.

[Xiahou]

DW's been awfully quiet since the runoff hasnt he?

[Lord Winter]

Nope im here.Maybe i havent been so active becouse i have no role in this game.Or then i may just have been occupied with other things. I aimed the lurkers in the first rounds to get them in the game. Sasaki i wouldnt have killed you becouse you are so suspicious all together. But its someone who has been playing active in the last rounds,since mostly the mafia just cant keep their mouth shut since they are enthusiastic about their role. So i vote Destroyer of Hope

When I was mafia in Caso Nuevo (sp) I lurked as a strategy. So the argumeent really dosn't work.

[AggonyDuck]

Looks like I missed the vote by five hours or so. Sorry everyone for not voting. :shame:

[doc_bean]

Well if you were mafia you would be trying to start a bandwagon.

??? mafia don't care who gets killed as long as it isn't one of their own. Starting a bandwagon is only a viable tactic if you're on the verge of losing, I was one of the first to post a vote (I think, not many people voted) so I couldn't be protecting someone.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. Some people had decided to stay in their homes, but some still braved the outside. However, both strategies were proven unsuccessful in the day's kills.

Kommodus (one of those who shut himself indoors) was in his flat, working on his super secret Mafia catching machine. Though engrossed in tightening the nuts and bolts, he clearly heard his door creak open.

Always alert, Kommodus jumped and spun around, wrench clasped tightly in his hand.

He caught sight of a tall, shadowy figure, wearing a wide brimmed hat with grapes on it.

“The Wanax!” Kommodus exclaimed.

The Wanax chuckled softly, or at least that was the impression Kommodus got, even though the dark void face of the Wanax remained static. “Greetings, Kommodus.”

“Why are you here to kill us Wanax?” Kommodus demanded, fear and anger both present in his voice.

“Kommodus,” The Wanax replied in his soft but chilling voice: “This is my domain. You villagers are usurpers. You all must be removed.”

“We have rights!” Kommodus blurted out. “Us villagers have the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and estate!”

The Wanax chuckled again, as he plucked a grape from his hat. Kommodus watched as the grape dissolved into the face void. “My dear Kommodus, please don’t quote Locke to me. He is one of my favorites you know; brilliant man. However, he tends to be misinterpreted by the fools. I should add a corollary to his Second Treatise: ‘-under the discretion of The Wanax-’”

The Wanax changed his train of thought: “So Kommodus, can you guess what manner of death I have prepared for you?”

Kommodus, seeing nowhere to run or hid, tried to talk his way out: “Um – Dear Wanax sir, how can one possibly know anything?”

The Wanax snickered and replied: “What nonsense you utter Kommodus.”

Kommodus continued: “Let me elaborate. How can one possibly have justification for any knowledge? How can either one of us know that the other exist?”

The Wanax replied: “Kommodus, this useless discourse tires me. How can I not know what certainty of sight grants me?”

Kommodus replied: “But Dear Wanax, does not your vision fail you at times? Our sensory perception is not perfect. We often see things that are not really there.”

The Wanax scoffed: “Hmmph! The Wanax is not like you.”

Kommodus said: “But Dear Wanax, do not you see like us?”

The Wanax was silent.

Kommodus continued: “How are we to tell, if our present dialogue is nothing but a dream? Or perhaps we are suffering a hallucination. Or perhaps we are brains in a vat, our thoughts and senses are completely manipulated by outside forces. How can either of us know if the other actually exists?”

The Wanax was silent.

Kommodus ended his argument: “We could be systematically deceived. There is no reason to hold the normal hypothesis over any alternative hypothesis. Thus we are not justified in believing any hypothesis.”

The Wanax was clearly perturbed by this reasoning. Though his face remained a static void, Kommodus could plainly see this.

At length, The Wanax finally replied. His tone was markedly different from the supercilious and evil one he usually had: “Kommodus, you speak the truth. Or, to not be dogmatic, you speak a reflection of the truth that is very persuasive. Even Locke’s explanationism cannot fully wash away the doubt you have argued in favour of.”

Kommodus relaxed. He had actually stopped The Wanax dead in his track utilising wit.

The Wanax, after a long period of introspection finally said: “The Wanax is dear to us, but truth is also dear to us -”

The Wanax plucked another grape from his hat and “ate” it before finishing his sentence. Kommodus was extremely relieved. He expected The Wanax to finish the quote in the way Aristotle did.

How disappointed he was then when The Wanax finally said: “Nay, but the Wanax is dearer than truth.

“Oh don’t worry too much Kommodus, you will enjoy a drink with me before your death.”

Kommodus was found lying on his floor dead. Next to him was an empty bucket. It did not take a forensic specialist to see that the bucket was previously filled with schwedentrunk. What did remain a mystery to the villagers was whether Kommodus suffered a quick death by choking, or if he had suffered unbearable gastric pain as his stomach swelled to accommodate the vast amount of the vile liquid poured down his throat.

Of course, lying in a pool of schwedentrunk nearby was a business card with a grape watermark. Embossed on it were the words: The Wanax.

Proletariat knew nothing about the philosophical discussion and the murder by schwedentrunk that had taken place. All she knew was, she was innocent, she was most likely going to die soon, and darn it, she was going to enjoy life until it ended.

Not caring about the repercussions, Prole put on a coat, went out to the car, and drove to her favorite sushi bar, where she was a regular.

Prole feared that the recent attacks by the mafia had completely eliminated the restaurant staff, thus depriving her of her tasty sushi, but one such man had survived. He was dressed in a trenchcoat and wearing sunglasses. Prole was ecstatic that somebody was still working there.

"Welcome to the Frontroom sushi bar," he said. "Service may be slow since I am the maitre'd, waiter, chef, and busboy, but I shall do my best to provide you with the most enjoyable last meal possible."

"Pardon?" Prole had apparently caught the "last meal" bit.

"Last meal before you go to sleep, silly." The man was smooth. "It is what dinner is, is it not?" Somewhat reassured, Prole nodded.

"Excellent," the man said. "Now, what would you like?"

Prole gave her order and watched as the man wrote it down.

"Very good choice. I will now take the order to the chef." The man walked away and began to make Prole's last meal. Instead of the usual delicate white fish, however, the mafioso prepared fugu, making sure that it was improperly cleaned.

Under the mafioso's eye, Prole took one bite of the fugu and knew that she was doomed. The poison quickly paralyzed all of her muscles but left her conscious to examine, in horror, that her lungs were failing.

The mafioso looked over with a smirk as his victim slowly asphyxiated. When Prole died, he left her where she was and pinned a note to her body:

"Judith 13:10"

Later that day, Chief of Police Beirut gathered the ever-dwindling villagers in the town square again. He looked even more grim than usual.

"Gentlemen," he began, "it is my sad duty to say that three people have died today."

The crowd murmured in shock. Three? Had the Godfather sent reinforcements? How could they ever survive?

Meanwhile, Beirut continued. "Kommodus and Proletariat have been murdered in the usual way, and Divine Wind was found dead this afternoon. He had committed seppuku, dying honorably. We salute the dead villagers."

A short period of time was dedicated to the mourning of the dead.

"Okay, we've got that out of the way. Now it's time to vote."

Note from GH: Divine Wind PM'd me saying that he had massive computer problems and that he has no time to get on at work. He also apologizes to everyone. Good luck with the computer, DW.

[Husar]

Interesting, but don't expect any thoughts from me now.:beam:

edit: now there I have one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Judith

As I already thought, this time the killer took a book that is not in the bible, either someone has a somewhat non-biblical christian religion here or likes this kind of stuff?!?!?

[Kagemusha]

My theory is that Husar is the Wanax.Vote Husar

[Csargo]

Interesting, but don't expect any thoughts from me now.:beam:

edit: now there I have one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Judith

As I already thought, this time the killer took a book that is not in the bible, either someone has a somewhat non-biblical christian religion here or likes this kind of stuff?!?!?

It says right from the beginning that it's in the old Testament of the Bible. How could you miss something so obvious? O_o

[Kommodus]

Oh, what the CRAP! :wall:

You mafiosi just don't get it, do you? Didn't you see that I just got killed in Csar's new game? Did it not occur to you that maybe, just maybe, I might get a little fed up with being assassinated early in every game?!?

Well, that's it. The final straw. I'd put off work on my new technique while I played M2:TW, but guess what? Thanks to you, it's back on the front burner again. Once I get it all working, be prepared for some very dangerous whispers - nay, shouts! - from the dead! :skull:

Be afraid, Wanax - be very afraid. The ghost of Kommodus is coming for you! :skull:

[Sigurd]

I know this will put me in the spot light, but I don’t care…

We are obviously dealing with a learned Mafioso. The philosophy discourse suggests this. I also note a significant improvement in our pantomime Mafioso. Maybe we are dealing with only one mafia here? Using the word asphyxia instead of suffocate suggests advanced English skills. The use of Schwedentrunk is pointing to a German player. I know Husar writes very good English, He is also a daredevil and would kill Sasaki and Kommodus just to spite them.

The Judith reference I don’t get. It is an obscure book from the Apocrypha and the most notable about this book is Judith beheading Holofernes. The verse that is referenced is nonsensical and only speaks of Judith’s maid putting Holofernes’ head in a bag and that they went to a mountain.

You might be set up here buddy… but you have to convince me of your innocence.

Vote:Husar

[GeneralHankerchief]

Eep. I put in "asphyxiate."

How come there's never this sort of problem in the other mafia games? Or do the other distinguished hosts just not bother? :dizzy2:

[Csargo]

Eep. I put in "asphyxiate."

How come there's never this sort of problem in the other mafia games? Or do the other distinguished hosts just not bother? :dizzy2:

Big words scare me GH:smash:

[Kommodus]

Eep. I put in "asphyxiate."

How come there's never this sort of problem in the other mafia games? Or do the other distinguished hosts just not bother? :dizzy2:

Well, in my game I wrote almost everything. The mafia in Cosa Nuova never gave me much to work with, so I just made stuff up.

If I were you, I wouldn't bother with corrections like the one above. Let players think whatever they want! They know that the kills are partially your work and partially that of the mafia; they should also know that it's not always clear which parts are whose work. If they choose to read too much into such things, and go wrong because of it, that's their problem.

Just my two cents. :yes:

[Husar]

It says right from the beginning that it's in the old Testament of the Bible. How could you miss something so obvious? O_o
Erm, hehe.
Actually I searched for it on the german wiki page where it said more or less what I wrote, then clicked on english and linked that here...apparently the english version says it's excluded from protestant bibles which was kind of underlined by my protestant bible...:2thumbsup:

While Sigurd honours me a lot with his accusation, he got a fundamental point wrong, or two?
first off, calling me anything that has devil in it, doesn't sound good to me, second my grammar may be fine, but I have some big holes in my vocabulary and third, being a christian I would not use a bible reference together with a murder, not even in a game.
Having said that, I hope to get lynched now because if everybody believes me now, the mafia will likely kill me anyway...:wall:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My theory is that Husar is the Wanax.Vote Husar

Your theory is under-explained. Sigurd at least makes a case for why/how. Why'd you start this wagon?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Having said that, I hope to get lynched now because if everybody believes me now, the mafia will likely kill me anyway...:wall:

You need some cheddar to go with that whine.

[Csargo]

Vote: Husar

Something about Husar's post doesn't seem geniune to me. Also some of his posts aren't very good and unlike his posts in other games. But I'll have to go back tomorrow and post my findings it's pretty late right now.

[Ignoramus]

Husar sounds too suspicious for me. He has not made a good defence, thus he gets my vote.

Vote: Husar

[Sasaki Kojiro]

https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

[Death Match]

<note> I have revealed my position when I was alive so I am thinking that it is okay to keep talking about it. If not, please delete the post. <note>

The Mafia now has an advantage!!! Yay! They are really gonna pawn without a detective.

[Csargo]

https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

You can't tell me you don't find Husar suspicious Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You can't tell me you don't find Husar suspicious Sasaki.

https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9198/thlock2jz4.jpg

Never tell me what I can't do!

[Csargo]

https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9198/thlock2jz4.jpg

Never tell me what I can't do!

My point has been made. :guitarist:

[Csargo]

When did my posts get so far behind you Sasaki? Last time I looked we were about the same.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

When did my posts get so far behind you Sasaki? Last time I looked we were about the same.

Blatant spam to catch up won't do you any good.

[Kagemusha]

Your theory is under-explained. Sigurd at least makes a case for why/how. Why'd you start this wagon?

Maybe i got message from Elder gods? There is simply no real evidence if the detective cant find the mafia. I read the kills and voted for the first person who came in to mind when i thought about the kills. I only have my gut feeling to go with here. Can you point out any real evidence against anybody in this thread Seamus?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe i got message from Elder gods? There is simply no real evidence if the detective cant find the mafia. I read the kills and voted for the first person who came in to mind when i thought about the kills. I only have my gut feeling to go with here. Can you point out any real evidence against anybody in this thread Seamus?

Finding conclusive proof isn't going to happen, even with the detective (as you should know :p ). What we are looking for is people who are more likely, so just randomly picking someone isn't helpful.

[Kagemusha]

Sasaki it isnt random.Its about who you suspect. Why should mafia act anyway more "suspicious" then anyone else? This is basicly just a guessing game,unless you monitor each and every player how they act on the forums.And if they go invisible even that is not of any use.

[Csargo]

Blatant spam to catch up won't do you any good.

Spam where? I was just posting something I noticed. I voted Husar for obvious reasons. If you go back and read his posts from the beginning there different from the last couple of games. Mind you not extremely different but different all the same.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki it isnt random.Its about who you suspect. Why should mafia act anyway more "suspicious" then anyone else? This is basicly just a guessing game,unless you monitor each and every player how they act on the forums.And if they go invisible even that is not of any use.

Usually they do act more suspicious. This is the entire point of the game :stare:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Spam where? I was just posting something I noticed. I voted Husar for obvious reasons. If you go back and read his posts from the beginning there different from the last couple of games. Mind you not extremely different but different all the same.

That one post. Just jokin around m8.

Anyway, there are other people who's behavior is far more changed from last game (DC for one). If you think Husar's behavior has changed you should post comparisons, allow for different situations, and ask Husar what's up, not bandwagon vote.

[Kagemusha]

Usually they do act more suspicious. This is the entire point of the game :stare:

Well do you find yourself more suspicious when you are Mafia member?~:thumb: So we are supposed to believe the old dogma that the unrighteous will always make mistakes that reveal them? I agree that sometimes Mafia makes blatant mistakes that allow them to be lynched. Sometimes not. Id say that this game is atleast 80% pure luck.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well do you find yourself more suspicious when you are Mafia member?~:thumb: So we are supposed to believe the old dogma that the unrighteous will always make mistakes that reveal them? I agree that sometimes Mafia makes blatant mistakes that allow them to be lynched. Sometimes not. Id say that this game is atleast 80% pure luck.

No way. In TGF2 we lynched 3 mafioso's with no help from the detective. In Mafia IV we lynched both mafia with no help from detective. And none of them were random choices, they were all calculated.

[Kagemusha]

No way. In TGF2 we lynched 3 mafioso's with no help from the detective. In Mafia IV we lynched both mafia with no help from detective. And none of them were random choices, they were all calculated.

Or did those lynches turned into calculated ones once the victims of lynches turned out to be guilty?So there was not any luck with you when you got the mafia members,just cold calculation? I would like to see the formula behind those calculations.:smash:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Or did those lynches turned into calculated ones once the victims of lynches turned out to be guilty?So there was not any luck with you when you got the mafia members,just cold calculation? I would like to see the formula behind those calculations.:smash:

It's not usually translated into numbers but they go like:

Voted for person X without good reason +10 percent
Fishing for detective +30 percent
Lurking +10 percent

And many more. There's no cold hard math just gut feelings. But it works better than randomness (as can be proved by looking at post counts of games, the games with the most posts end in town victory and the games with the least end in mafia victory).

[Kagemusha]

It's not usually translated into numbers but they go like:

Voted for person X without good reason +10 percent
Fishing for detective +30 percent
Lurking +10 percent

And many more. There's no cold hard math just gut feelings. But it works better than randomness (as can be proved by looking at post counts of games, the games with the most posts end in town victory and the games with the least end in mafia victory).

"There's no cold hard math just gut feelings." Well doesnt this mean that ultimately the decision will be made from gut feeling? And can this gut feeling be proven in anyway to be reliable. I could even say that it could be assosiated with guessing. Now to get back in the game at hand,didnt i reply to Seamus that i based my decision to vote Husar into my gut feeling after i had read the kills? I never sayed anything about randomness.It was you who translated my vote to be a random one. Now if your and my logig doesnt work the same way it should be a good and healthy thing,since we are individuals afterall, but i wouldnt make the mistake to compare who´s gut feeling is more right or wrong,since there is no way to prove that before the game ends.:bow:

[Husar]

Here are my results - "Husar: not guilty"

By the way,



I must investigate Ignoramus. Why the hell would you say that apart from that you just want to assume that I am the wrong confession and that you just want to ensure that Mafia doesn't waste their kill.

FINE believe what you want to believe! I will post my investigations until I die. If I survive, I will laugh because you already knew that I was the detective.
Oh, ahem, now all you logical guys please enlighten me, why this poor guy, who, by the way, got killed by the mafia already, says that I was innocent?
If he was a townie and not a detective, why should he take the risk that people believe him? If I were mafia and everyone would believe him, then he'd make a big mistake.
If you don't believe him, then you have to think that he thought noone would believe him and thus he could post just anything. But let me remind you, he posted a similar thing in the GF2 and IIRC, he was right, even though there, the post was against the rules.

Then again, I want to thank all of you to finally give me some attention, I really enjoy the spotlight.:sweatdrop: :clown:

And before I forget about it, isn't it so that mafia defenses are the ones that make sense because they usually prepare for defense?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

"There's no cold hard math just gut feelings." Well doesnt this mean that ultimately the decision will be made from gut feeling? And can this gut feeling be proven in anyway to be reliable. I could even say that it could be assosiated with guessing. Now to get back in the game at hand,didnt i reply to Seamus that i based my decision to vote Husar into my gut feeling after i had read the kills? I never sayed anything about randomness.It was you who translated my vote to be a random one. Now if your and my logig doesnt work the same way it should be a good and healthy thing,since we are individuals afterall, but i wouldnt make the mistake to compare who´s gut feeling is more right or wrong,since there is no way to prove that before the game ends.:bow:

But gut feelings aren't random, it had to have been something in his post that made you feel that way and you can explain that so other people can see if they agree.

[Kagemusha]

But gut feelings aren't random, it had to have been something in his post that made you feel that way and you can explain that so other people can see if they agree.

Well how to explain intuition,hmm..The killers style reminded me of Husar and now im talking about wanax character. The killer is bold and intellectual.Ofcourse the gut feeling doesnt come from a single post but with that post and the previous ones together. For example killing many of the experienced players seems to me like bold tactic from a person who isnt afraid to go after them. Also i think that someone who is both bold and intellectual could take risks that could even point to himself, becouse that could always be countered with accusing of framing attempt.I have my suspicions about the religious killer too but i think its wiser for me to keep those to myself for now. I hope that explains little what was going inside my head when i decided to vote Husar. I know that i have the habbit for being pretty vague,but thats just the way i am.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok good, that's the kind of thing I like to see.

[Husar]

I should've had myself lynched before, it's very nice to read what a high opinion some of you have of me.:2thumbsup:
I don't know where that comes from since I tend to make a lot of (bad)jokes, but I enjoy it anyway.:laugh4:

Then again, you're all wrong...:embarassed:

Anmd before anyone starts crying I should defend myself better, I have no idea how to unprove someone's feelings.:shrug:
I can only tell about my own feelings and thoughts but people don't believe that anyway.

[Csargo]

That one post. Just jokin around m8.

Anyway, there are other people who's behavior is far more changed from last game (DC for one). If you think Husar's behavior has changed you should post comparisons, allow for different situations, and ask Husar what's up, not bandwagon vote.

What would that help? I've tried to do that before with no one paying attention. I won't be bothered with going through the thread again and finding evidence.

[Don Corleone]

Husar's not a moron. He would be very careful to edit any German phases out of his posts, unless they were popular usage terms like Scheudenfreude (sp?) or liebenstrom (again, sp?). I'm not saying Husar is innocent, I'm simply saying that the German term is the 'best' piece of 'evidence' against him, and in my mind, it's not.

As for differences in posting styles, yes, I did learn a LOT from GF2, where I almost got lynched just for being stupid on several occassions. Sort of a modifed Spartan if you will... BUT, regardless of whether I'm innocent or guilty, I would naturally learn and adapt from my first to second mafia game.

I really honestly don't know. I don't like voting on hunches. I definitely don't like bandwagoning. And I don't like abstaining. But of the three options I have before me...

Vote: Abstain (Somebody, please, make a good case, soon!)

Sasaki... didn't know you were in Worcester. I'm only about an hour and a half away. We should grab beers sometime. You of legal age yet? You go to WPI or Holy Cross?

[Kommodus]

Somebody, please, make a good case, soon!

Still a little green, aintcha Don? ~;) You may have learned much, grasshopper, but you may be missing the most important lesson of all.

You make a good case! You do the investigative work of gathering, organizing, and analyzing the data! If all you do is wait for someone else to present a persuasive argument, you open yourself up to be led around by the mafia or by ignorant villagers. There are many arguments that sound compelling, but lead away from the truth.

Perhaps you know this already, though? Surely age and experience have not left you bereft of wisdom?

Are you a mafioso? :inquisitive:

Regardless, I'm hot on the trail of the mafia already, though it may not appear that way. Soon I should have a strong list of suspects to investigate.

[Don Corleone]

I'm trying to, but one thing I haven't figured out yet in this game is the opening plays. At the end of the day, regardless of how people like to claim they're using apriori knowledge from other games (as if human behavior is a constant and any deviation means a change in roles) and chatroom behavior (impossible to verify), we're all just guessing, then coming up with a story (aka 'evidence') to justify our guess, not vice versa. Neither of these sources is real evidence, it's as much conjecture as playing a hunch. But, I have noticed that there is a certain 'orthodoxy' to playing these games. You can vote for anybody in the early rounds, so long as you come up with some long, convoluted theory that hides the fact that you're guessing or playing a hunch. If you come right out and say you're guessing or playing a hunch, you're assumed to be mafia, even though, in truth, that's what we're ALL doing until evidence starts to come to the surface.

The MOST maddening non-evidence is when people read into the kill desriptions. It assumes the game moderator is taking the kill desciptions word for word from the mafia, and that the mafia are planting details in their kill descriptions. While this might occassionally be the case, my experience has been usually it's not: either the game moderator wrote the kill description or the killers just came up with something, no message intended to be conveyed.

Some players with more time (because they're not sneaking in from work) DO have the time to sit down and analyzer a thread of 500 posts and find where a player contradicts themselves in post number 384 from post 187. I do not have the resources to do that, but in my opinion, this is always the best type of evidence. It's why I was SOOOO suspicious of Sigurd in GF2. Granted, unfounded, but in that game, he deserved to be lynched anway, just for acting like a spook.

[Husar]

What would that help? I've tried to do that before with no one paying attention. I won't be bothered with going through the thread again and finding evidence.
Good point, you may actually embarass yourself because you found nothing.~;)


Husar's not a moron. He would be very careful to edit any German phases out of his posts, unless they were popular usage terms like Scheudenfreude (sp?) or liebenstrom (again, sp?). I'm not saying Husar is innocent, I'm simply saying that the German term is the 'best' piece of 'evidence' against him, and in my mind, it's not.
I'm not sure about the moron thing, but I don't even know what a "Schwedentrunk", or whatever german word in that kill description was, is.
Yes, it's a common problem of mine that I don't know much about common things, but it's not like anyone would care, right?:2thumbsup:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@Don: Yeah, WPI (can you really see me at Holy Cross :laugh4: ). That's cool, my sense of NE geography is lacking so I was thinking of NH as really far away. I'm still 20 for a while though.


It's true that the first few rounds are mostly guessing, but mafia may guess differently than townspeople. Getting people posting forces them to establish a behavior set that they will have to keep for the rest of the game or appear inconsistent. Guesses are dressed up to appear as serious accusations to avoid the appearance of a sham that can just be ignored.

[AggonyDuck]

I'll abstain this round. I have no idea who to vote and I've not been following the game too closely.

Vote: Abstain

[Dutch_guy]

The MOST maddening non-evidence is when people read into the kill desriptions. It assumes the game moderator is taking the kill desciptions word for word from the mafia, and that the mafia are planting details in their kill descriptions. While this might occassionally be the case, my experience has been usually it's not: either the game moderator wrote the kill description or the killers just came up with something, no message intended to be conveyed.

Absolutely. It's why I we should never trust bandwagons on kill posts...but still, it looks to me as that's the only thing the people who are voting for Husar are taking into account. Well, aside from Kage's gut feeling that is.

Vote:Abstain.

As I have no real idea on the murderers yet...

:balloon2:

[doc_bean]

Owkay, i'm pretty clueless right now. The last kills don't seem to be the work of God's Grace, i don't *think* Husar is guilty, although I wouldn't bet on it and it's hard to tell what the killers have wirtten en what GeneralH has added.


Vote: Csar

There's something about his behaviour that feels a little 'off'. Not sure what though. And Sasaki got killed...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"There's no cold hard math just gut feelings." Well doesnt this mean that ultimately the decision will be made from gut feeling? And can this gut feeling be proven in anyway to be reliable. I could even say that it could be assosiated with guessing. Now to get back in the game at hand,didnt i reply to Seamus that i based my decision to vote Husar into my gut feeling after i had read the kills? I never sayed anything about randomness.It was you who translated my vote to be a random one. Now if your and my logig doesnt work the same way it should be a good and healthy thing,since we are individuals afterall, but i wouldnt make the mistake to compare who&#180;s gut feeling is more right or wrong,since there is no way to prove that before the game ends.:bow:

I have no problem with your vote rationale, and its not unreasonable at this stage of the game -- I just wish you'd included it in the vote post so I could evaluate your intent more.

Can I do better? I flatter myself that my vote analysis has worked to further success in some of the games I've played in -- though I admit that it tends to work better when looking back over 5-6 votes and is therefore of limited help thus far. Contentious/close votes, viewed against the larger pattern, do provide some indicators.

Edit: Best arguments so far are against Husar, but Don C's counterpoints are on target too.....Vote: Abstain

[Husar]

Vote: Csar

Well, he simply says something about my voting was different and then refuses to back it up with anything, plus he makes some kind of witchhunt in the chat. Maybe he doesn't want to let me live longer since he saw it as his error in GF2 not to kill me early enough. He's also spamming like crazy to keep up with Sasaki, which detracts from the rest of his posts.
Additionally I might add that the killing of Sasaki would perfectly fit into that because if he had killed him in the first round, everyone had suspected him, so he waited a bit and now he can get away with it.

[Craterus]

This game makes me feel so stupid. Everyone else has these big, complicated theories about the killers. Me, I got nothin'. :sad:

Vote: Ignoramus

His post is rather brief (trying not to get noticed, maybe) and he was one of my accusers earlier in the game. Banquo got lynched for picking up on the 'wanax' thing. Ignoramus backed him up.

[Csargo]

Vote: Csar

Well, he simply says something about my voting was different and then refuses to back it up with anything, plus he makes some kind of witchhunt in the chat. Maybe he doesn't want to let me live longer since he saw it as his error in GF2 not to kill me early enough. He's also spamming like crazy to keep up with Sasaki, which detracts from the rest of his posts.
Additionally I might add that the killing of Sasaki would perfectly fit into that because if he had killed him in the first round, everyone had suspected him, so he waited a bit and now he can get away with it.

Number one: You just did the exact same thing I did you can't use that against me.

Number two: Witchhunt when did I start a witch hunt Husar?

Number three: GF2 is over. I'm not the kind of guy that would hold grudges against people. Especially people I know only over a internet forum.

Number four:Spamming like crazy eh? All my posts have a point Husar. It's not like anyone payed attention to the posts that actually had points in them.

Number five: Why would I kill Sasaki if I'm trying to make my posts in this thread more than his like you said? If you haven't noticed Husar killing Sasaki just makes him post more, maybe if you weren't busy trying to get me killed you would notice such things. Sasaki is one of the best players in this game and killing him just makes him that much more deadly.

[Masy]

I am still suspicious of Divine Wind. His lack of recent posting adds to my previous suspicions. However, he claims he has to 'work' (fortunately, that word is alien to me, being only a young lad.), and in that he may be consistent, as he hasn't posted much throughout. I will Vote: Abstain at this time, as no mafioso is yet to put their foot in it...

[Dutch_guy]

Number three: GF2 is over. I'm not the kind of guy that would hold grudges against people. Especially people I know only over a internet forum.


Ehm...you do realise your location and personal user title both read: Vote:Sasaki don't you?


:balloon2:

[Craterus]

I am still suspicious of Divine Wind. His lack of recent posting adds to my previous suspicions. However, he claims he has to 'work' (fortunately, that word is alien to me, being only a young lad.), and in that he may be consistent, as he hasn't posted much throughout. I will Vote: Abstain at this time, as no mafioso is yet to put their foot in it...

Divine Wind committed seppuku. He is dead.

[Csargo]

Oh, ahem, now all you logical guys please enlighten me, why this poor guy, who, by the way, got killed by the mafia already, says that I was innocent?
If he was a townie and not a detective, why should he take the risk that people believe him? If I were mafia and everyone would believe him, then he'd make a big mistake.
If you don't believe him, then you have to think that he thought noone would believe him and thus he could post just anything. But let me remind you, he posted a similar thing in the GF2 and IIRC, he was right, even though there, the post was against the rules.

Then again, I want to thank all of you to finally give me some attention, I really enjoy the spotlight.:sweatdrop: :clown:

And before I forget about it, isn't it so that mafia defenses are the ones that make sense because they usually prepare for defense?

TheRTWGuru can't be trusted where's his PM from GH? He's dead now so it doesn't really matter and I really doubt he was the detective probably just wanted out of the game.

[Xiahou]

Well, I was planning on jumping on the Husar bandwagon but then I read this post by Csar and something clicked in my mind,


Number five: Why would I kill Sasaki if I'm trying to make my posts in this thread more than his like you said? If you haven't noticed Husar killing Sasaki just makes him post more, maybe if you weren't busy trying to get me killed you would notice such things. Sasaki is one of the best players in this game and killing him just makes him that much more deadly.
That could be the exact reason to kill him- because you believe yourself above suspicion for doing so. :yes:

Vote:Csar

[Masy]

Divine Wind committed seppuku. He is dead.

Righto. Thats my suspects list completely shot. Guess my vote still stands then.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Divine Wind committed seppuku. He is dead.

Apparently, Masy is the kind of fellow who straps the condemned man into the chair and throws the switch -- irregardless of the fellow's suicide the night before.:dizzy2:

Day #4 Voting So Far (EDIT = 4:22pm EST):

Husar = 4 (Csar, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Sigurd Fafnesbane)

Csar = 3 (Doc Bean, Husar, Xiahou)

Ignoramus = 1 (Craterus)

Abstain = 5 (Aggony Duck, Don Corleone, Dutch Guy, Masy, Seamus Fermanagh)

No Vote = 7 (Crazed Rabbit, Destroyer of Hope, Discovery1, Drisos, God's Grace, Reenk Roink, Silver Rusher)

[discovery1]

Meh

Vote: Cookie

[Csargo]

Ehm...you do realise your location and personal user title both read: Vote:Sasaki don't you?


:balloon2:

Can no one understand a joke? You want me to spell it out to you?

It is a joke from a couple of games ago.



Well, I was planning on jumping on the Husar bandwagon but then I read this post by Csar and something clicked in my mind,


Number five: Why would I kill Sasaki if I'm trying to make my posts in this thread more than his like you said? If you haven't noticed Husar killing Sasaki just makes him post more, maybe if you weren't busy trying to get me killed you would notice such things. Sasaki is one of the best players in this game and killing him just makes him that much more deadly.

That could be the exact reason to kill him- because you believe yourself above suspicion for doing so.

Vote:Csar
What I didn't understand that Xiahou? I think I'm above being suspicious? How so?

Edit: And I would have had Sasaki killed in GF2 if I really wanted him dead but there's no reason to kill him he's usually more suspicious when he's alive.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Apparently, Masy is the kind of fellow who straps the condemned man into the chair and throws the switch -- irregardless of the fellow's suicide the night before.:dizzy2:

Day #4 Voting So Far (EDIT = 4:22pm EST):

Husar = 4 (Csar, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Sigurd Fafnesbane)

Csar = 3 (Doc Bean, Husar, Xiahou)

Ignoramus = 1 (Craterus)

Abstain = 5 (Aggony Duck, Don Corleone, Dutch Guy, Masy, Seamus Fermanagh)

No Vote = 7 (Crazed Rabbit, Destroyer of Hope, Discovery1, Drisos, God's Grace, Reenk Roink, Silver Rusher)

Ah, how difficult it is when everyone is either on a weak wagon or lurking.

[discovery1]

On second thought:

Vote: Kage just because.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting over.

Stand by for the execution.

[GeneralHankerchief]

There were lots of different rocks in the world. Big. Small. Sharp. Dull. Black. Gray. Green. Dense. Heavy. Light. Dirty. Wet. Rough. Smooth. The rocks being used (re-used, if one wanted to get technical) were the perfect type of rocks for throwing at people.

They were small enough to hold and throw with one hand, but big enough to make something of an impact on its target. They were mostly gray, having been taken from the Frontroom Quarry. However, a few had bloodstains on them, having been the final rocks to strike the previous day's condemned, Zalmoxis.

Husar would now be the one to receive the rocks. He had no interest in them. But there was nothing he could do about it. He could only hope that the Frontroomers had exceptionally bad aim.

Meanwhile, as he hoping, normal procedings went on. Once brought up to the execution platform, he was asked by Chief of Police Beirut if he had anything to say before he was executed.

"Um, yeah... I really hope the wind picks up sometime in the next couple of seconds."

A few villagers chuckled at this. That was pretty much the only noise made (no wind) until the yell of pain eminated from Husar, whose feet has just been stapled to the platform.

At that signal, the rocks began to strike their target. As previously mentioned, they were perfect for throwing at people, and very shortly Husar departed this world.

Here is the voting total for Round 4:

Husar: 4 (Kagemusha, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Csar, Ignoramus) :skull:
Csar: 3 (doc_bean, Husar, Xiahou)
Ignoramus: 1 (Craterus)
Kagemusha: 1 (discovery1)

Abstained: 5 (Masy, Seamus Fermanagh, Don Corleone, AggonyDuck, Dutch_guy)
Didn't vote: 6 (Crazed Rabbit, Destroyer of Hope, Drisos, God's Grace, Reenk Roink, Silver Rusher)

~~~~~~~

Still alive: (19)
Seamus Fermanagh
Kagemusha
Craterus
Xiahou
Silver Rusher
Don Corleone
AggonyDuck
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Csar
Reenk Roink
Destroyer of Hope
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Masy
discovery1
Drisos
God's Grace

Committed seppuku:
Divine Wind

Killed:
UltraWar
Sir Moody
Pannonian
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Sasaki Kojiro
theRTWGuru
Kommodus
Proletariat

Executed:
Hepcat
Banquo's Ghost
Zalmoxis
Husar

[Xiahou]

What I didn't understand that Xiahou? I think I'm above being suspicious? How so?

Edit: And I would have had Sasaki killed in GF2 if I really wanted him dead but there's no reason to kill him he's usually more suspicious when he's alive.
Right, the point was that, on the surface, you would seem to have the least reason to kill Sasaki. Too late for this round though....

Edit: These no-votes and abstains are getting out of hand.

[Husar]

Yay, my first erm, execution.
I'm not sure whether I like that stoning, imagining doesn't really give me a stronger christmas feeling, but at least you said it was quick, GH.:sweatdrop:
I want to thank everyone who voted for me and congratulate the real mafiosi for erm, another free kill...:bow: :clown:

Being a great fan of Sasaki, I won't refrain from posting now though.:2thumbsup:

[Csargo]

Right, the point was that, on the surface, you would seem to have the least reason to kill Sasaki. Too late for this round though....

Edit: These no-votes and abstains are getting out of hand.

Alright I didn't understand what your saying. Thanks for spelling it out for me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Edit: These no-votes and abstains are getting out of hand.

Agreed. People who do nothing but abstain will suffer my wrath. Consider this a warning.

[Zalmoxis]

I literally just found out that I was executed. That's despressing, but have you thought that maybe I'm just not as committed as any of you to think out my actions?

[Husar]

Edit: These no-votes and abstains are getting out of hand.
I would agree on that, had I not just had this thought...
Maybe two of the ONLY FOUR people voting for me are mafia?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Voting Records:

Inactive (Abstain or no vote) Voters:

-- 4+ of 5 votes (4 lynchings):

Don Corleone: no vote, no vote, no vote, Kagemusha, abstain

Drisos: no vote, abstain, no vote, no vote, no vote

Dutch Guy: Abstain, no vote, Divine Wind, no vote, abstain

God's Grace: no vote, Divine Wind, no vote, no vote, no vote

-- 3 of 5 votes:

Craterus: no vote, abstain, Divine Wind, no vote, Ignoramus

Crazed Rabbit: Reenk, abstain, Zalmoxis, no vote, no vote

Masy: abstain, Divine Wind, Divine Wind, no vote, abstain

Silver Rusher: no vote, Proletariat, abstain, Csar, no vote


Of the 11 "active" votes cast by these 8 voters, 5 were for the eventual suicide victim.

Drisos has only voted once, by abstaining!


Other voting points of interest:

All 4 voting for Divine Wind's death in round 2 (not runoff) are alive [God's Grace, Masy, Seamus, Xiahou]. 2 of the 4 who voted for Banquo are dead.

Masy has only voted to lynch Divine Wind.


Other points will follow as I tease them out.

[Death Match]

Okay... Nobody believed when I said Husar was innocent. What is the point of a detective if noone believes him??

Since that I have already posted that I was the detective, I am NOT breaking the rule by doing this. I think. If I am, please delete.

PM from GH:

Sweep, sweep.

Loud crunching noise could be heard as theRTWGuru sweeped his rather big garden. Suddenly he came across a loose paper on the ground.

"Come outside"

Startled, Guru when outside and saw two men in grey suits and gold ties.

"Take this letter. Don't show this to anybody else."

"What? But why?"

The men walked away. Guru had no choice but to open the letter and read the contents.

"Something is wrong. We want you to investigate. To keep it secret, we want you to show this letter to nobody."


Congratulations!

theRTWGuru, you have been chosen to be the detective of the Mafia V: The Family Strikes Back!

Your job is to post me investigation after each Mafia kills. Remember, you cannot reveal your position after your death.

This simply means you have killed Husar who was innocent.

[discovery1]

Anyone know if GH gave such elaborate PMs before?

[doc_bean]

If you really were the detective and went public so early you deserve to be killed so early and have no one listen to you...

I just noticed Silver Rusher is keeping awfully quiet, not like him at all.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Loud crunching noise could be heard as theRTWGuru sweeped his rather big garden. Suddenly he came across a loose paper on the ground.

swept


Startled, Guru when outside and saw two men in grey suits and gold ties.

went

etc

GH has better grammar than this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Voting Records:

Inactive (Abstain or no vote) Voters:

-- 4+ of 5 votes (4 lynchings):

Don Corleone: no vote, no vote, no vote, Kagemusha, abstain

Drisos: no vote, abstain, no vote, no vote, no vote

Dutch Guy: Abstain, no vote, Divine Wind, no vote, abstain

God's Grace: no vote, Divine Wind, no vote, no vote, no vote

-- 3 of 5 votes:

Craterus: no vote, abstain, Divine Wind, no vote, Ignoramus

Crazed Rabbit: Reenk, abstain, Zalmoxis, no vote, no vote

Masy: abstain, Divine Wind, Divine Wind, no vote, abstain

Silver Rusher: no vote, Proletariat, abstain, Csar, no vote


Of the 11 "active" votes cast by these 8 voters, 5 were for the eventual suicide victim.

Drisos has only voted once, by abstaining!


Other voting points of interest:

All 4 voting for Divine Wind's death in round 2 (not runoff) are alive [God's Grace, Masy, Seamus, Xiahou]. 2 of the 4 who voted for Banquo are dead.

Masy has only voted to lynch Divine Wind.


Other points will follow as I tease them out.

Interesting, what's your conclusion from all this?

Lurking is certainly a problem.

[doc_bean]

I love how mafia games work like a prisoners dilemma, Nash equilibrium be damned :laugh4:

[Banquo's Ghost]

Interesting, what's your conclusion from all this?

Lurking is certainly a problem.

Not surprising, when anyone who posts ideas gets lynched.

Call it The Banquo Dilemma.

:bounce:

I know, I'm dead, what do I know. :grin:

[AggonyDuck]

I think we can assume that most of those who have several no votes are likely innocent. The risk of Wrath of God should be enough to keep the mafia active. So I think we need to look for the mafia among those who vote or abstain.

[Husar]

swept



went

etc

GH has better grammar than this.
You're raising good points there, but, GH is human and I am innocent and that is why I am inclined to believe the Guru, for what other reason should he do this? And if we were both mafia, then the game would be over, right? Additionally, he got killed by the mafia...

[Kommodus]

GH has better grammar than this.

Agreed. That "quoted" PM didn't look like GH's style at all.

Look, theRTWGuru, you made it pretty clear you weren't really the detective with your fake "reveal." If you were the real detective you'd never have done that, unless you were completely clueless. The way in which you did it was impossibly unbelievable too. Is it any wonder that no one listens to you?

I'm not precisely sure why you falsely claimed to be the detective, but hey, it's been done before by other townspeople. At least by getting yourself killed you made the mafia waste a kill that could've been used on the real detective.

Anyway, I sort of doubt Husar was guilty, but then again, the fact that he seems to believe Guru's ridiculous assertions is a bit suspicious. :inquisitive:

[Don Corleone]

You're raising good points there, but, GH is human and I am innocent and that is why I am inclined to believe the Guru, for what other reason should he do this? And if we were both mafia, then the game would be over, right? Additionally, he got killed by the mafia...

Just because you were innocent (which I happen to believe) doesn't mean theRTWGuru was in fact the detective. He could have proclaimed your innocence from his own hunches.

[Dutch_guy]

Can no one understand a joke? You want me to spell it out to you?

It is a joke from a couple of games ago.


A 'joke' written over the internet tends to miss the target, especially if it isn't funny. And no, you don't need to spell it out to us, just be sure to make the sarcasm clear in a post - especially in games where the writing style of a post can get you lynched or murdered.

And I take it the 'joke' from a couple of games ago refers to one in GF2 ?

:balloon2: