View Full Version : Do u miss the different starting eras in M2TW?
pansoiatr
12-12-2006, 11:25
I remember that in mtw u could start your campaing from different starting positions according to the era u chose.For example the byzantines was a huge power(easy campaign) in the early era having asia minor,balkans and south italy.in contrast in the late era they had a much more difficult start only having 3 regions(i think:)
Wouldnt it be nice to have that in m2tw?
I think that would give a great incentive to play the same faction again
I agree, and the other thing i'd like to see is GA mode - i'm sick of having to fight all the time, even though this is total war ;P
Barry Fitzgerald
12-12-2006, 11:28
I agree 100% on this one. MTW was great with the different eras..and it added to the replay value. Will CA put it in? Sadly probably not....
Quickening
12-12-2006, 11:34
As it is now, the game doesn't last long enough for different starting eras.
They should set the timescale to 0.5 as default so that the characters age properly. Then they should put the starting eras in. Makes perfect sense.
Johan217
12-12-2006, 11:36
Selenius4tsd from the twcenter.net forum is working on separate early, high and late campaigns: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72991
Separate campaigns are just what this game needs IMO: this way you can have 2 turns/year and have characters age in sync with the game, while keeping the campaign nice and short. In fact they should have done it for RTW too!
Beefeater
12-12-2006, 11:46
Do u miss the different starting eras in M2TW?
Yes.
No. To be honest, I never played MTW at anything other than early. I like to start from the bottom and work my way up. Same reason I like role-playing games that start you off at level 1.
pansoiatr
12-12-2006, 12:02
I totally agree with econ about loving the long campaign and having to start from scratch.What the eras would add would be replayability.Not having to start from the same position,doing the same things,going for the same provinces.It would a new campaign all together!
No doubt there will be a mod which will add eras.
They should set the timescale to 0.5 as default so that the characters age properly. Then they should put the starting eras in. Makes perfect sense.
I second that.
You'll still be able to start from scratch, but in different eras (= different starting position, different goals, different unit roster).
Daveybaby
12-12-2006, 12:25
Yeah i'd like to see the eras back in plus a more sensible years per turn value. I also liked how factions had different starting territories in each era, which gave some subtle variations to gameplay, and how some factions didnt even exist in some eras (and IMO CA didnt take that aspect of the game far enough in MTW1).
pansoiatr
12-12-2006, 12:44
Different starting positions would give a much harder game campaign for some factions which is what many experienced players would like to see.
By the way which faction appear in late era in mtw1?
The swiss and the mongols iirc
No. To be honest, I never played MTW at anything other than early. I like to start from the bottom and work my way up. Same reason I like role-playing games that start you off at level 1.
agreed.
Basileus
12-12-2006, 15:13
I have a feeling CA might add Eras in the expansion, so here goes me hoping im right cause i really miss it.
Ethelred Unread
12-12-2006, 15:22
They were a nice feature but I preferred being able to start as Aragorn and have a real uphill struggle rather than be able to start in Late and have access to all the guns etc
Bob the Insane
12-12-2006, 15:25
Do u miss the different starting eras in M2TW?
Honestly? No, I rarely started a campaign in MTW on anything but Early...
Beefeater
12-12-2006, 15:35
I think it's worth remembering that these are not mutually exclusive options. You could start at early and have a traditional grand campaign in MTW. The difference was that you could also start in high or late.
Having three scenarios gave greater strategic depth as over the course of a single game, as different factions would be dominant depending on the relative strength or weakness of their units at the relevant level of the tech tree.
For example, in an early era game the Almohads would often steamroller the Iberian peninsular (assuming an AI Spain), and as France you would find yourself refighting the battle of Roncesvalles time and again. In a late era game, expect to the Spanish roaming happily through Cairo. Early-era Germany was a deathtrap. Late-era Germany had hordes of Gothic Knights beating up the Belgians.
That's even without mentioning the Glorious Achievements mode - although I personally think that GAs should give some tangible reward in-game, which is why I like the new treatment of Crusades.
They should set the timescale to 0.5 as default so that the characters age properly. Then they should put the starting eras in. Makes perfect sense.
I couldn't agree more with this guys, but I sincerely doubt that we'll get either. Definitely not going to get 1/2 years per turn, because CA has stated on a number of occasions they think that a ~225 year campaign is optimal for the "overall target audience" (or something close to that), which is unfortunately the lowest common denominator demographic who would seem to prefer "shorter action based games". At least they threw us a bone here and made it easily modable, which is a Good Thing©. The other logical extension to this and that'd complete the picture is giving us control over character aging through scripts or config files. Hopefully we'll know for sure when the unpacker is out if this is possible, if not then definitely goes in the wishlist thread.
RE: Eras... I personally only started a campaign in High once, otherwise always started on early for the same reason Econ stated. Loved clawing my way up from the bottom so to speak. Never started or had a desire to play starting from Late, though I can definitely understand other player's desires to do so, hence I'm throwing in for the "yes" team here. Putting some effort into give us this much missed feature would go miles for getting CA brownie points. :yes:
Speaking of unpackers... Where's our "release day" patch already? :juggle2:
Kobal2fr
12-12-2006, 16:04
No. To be honest, I never played MTW at anything other than early. I like to start from the bottom and work my way up. Same reason I like role-playing games that start you off at level 1.
Same here. I really dislike having strategical choices forced on me (ie which city makes what where ?). Which is a pity cause I never got to play Novgorod...
Bob the Insane
12-12-2006, 16:04
Actually the type of modding required for this is possible now with the unpacked files that where released and the mod switching feature.
I have put to gether a little mod for my own use based on the work of others and some ideas of my own which I call TimeScaleMod which basically sets the timescale to 0.5, and adjusts building build times and farming outputs by a factor of 4 to slow the game down but, hopefully, maintain the existing game balance and technical progression. I am on my first test play through at the moment.
But from what I have learned it should be pretty easy to have two modded versions, kicked off by BAT files, that exist on the same install (without effecting the default game) that would simply tweak the start date and the duration of the game. You could also tweak the provinces ownership, the faction relationships, the starting armies and the number of buildings in the provinces to match as High and Late start date.
The start dates in MTW where 1087, 1205 and 1321... So by default a Late game would get you 209 years or 105(ish) turns. High pressure game for anything but a short campaign.
A timescale 0.5 late game for 418 turns sounds promising though. Not nearly as intimidating as 900 turns for an early game...
Honestly? No, I rarely started a campaign in MTW on anything but Early...
I felt the same, but after I had played most of the factions in MTW and in Viking Horde's wonderful XL mod, I started playing High and Late campaigns. It was like playing a completely different game. Different starting cities, different techs, the AI factions actually were teched up, different units, different enemies, less time...Some of my most memorable and beloved campaigns were High period ones. It added another dimension to MTW that gave the game so much replayability. I loved the different eras...
I should also mention that I only ever played GA campaigns. Never Domination.
No. To be honest, I never played MTW at anything other than early. I like to start from the bottom and work my way up. Same reason I like role-playing games that start you off at level 1.
I'm with econ on this. The only time I ever started on an era other than early in MTW was to play Russia.
I don't miss different starting dates as I always started at the earliest date. I miss GA a lot.
Doug-Thompson
12-12-2006, 18:09
Do I miss it? Only because I have to play a game to find out support costs for high and late era units for my Missile Cavalry guide.
Blackboots
12-12-2006, 18:47
God, yes! And the GA victory conditions, as well. Or, rather, I know I will if I ever finish slogging my way through my first campaign. That's not a complaint about the game, btw, just about the small amount of time I get to play it...
No doubt there will be a mod which will add eras.
I'm sure there will be some good mods, and I look forward to them; especially if they change the starting provinces and factions available a la MTW. I just wish I could hope for something like this from CA/SEGA - like when MI came out and it included several campaigns with varied starting positions for STW. That really extended the gameplay for me, especially the map where every faction starts out with just one province.
Barry Fitzgerald
12-12-2006, 18:58
Well when CA start talking about "target audiences" you know things are not looking up! Cmom man! The target audience is TW game players!
GA was also a good thing too IMHO....
I really worry though that CA will not enhance things..sure we can mod it...but hey we are paying them are we not?
Quickening
12-12-2006, 19:07
Well when CA start talking about "target audiences" you know things are not looking up! Cmom man! The target audience is TW game players!
GA was also a good thing too IMHO....
I really worry though that CA will not enhance things..sure we can mod it...but hey we are paying them are we not?
Aye but surely since any mods are based on their work in the first place, we still get our moneys worth.
Agree that the Total War fans should be the target audience but... that's business :shame:
Well when CA start talking about "target audiences" you know things are not looking up! Cmom man! The target audience is TW game players!
Sorry my good man, welcome to the super happy fun world of "Shareholder value." Whacker's translation: "How much do we have to dumb a game down so that everyone else will buy it and not just the cranky ol' denizens of the .org and twcenter?" :idea2:
I really worry though that CA will not enhance things..sure we can mod it...but hey we are paying them are we not?
Very well spoken, we are allowing CA the priviledge of accepting our money in return for a product and the maintenance thereof (no folks, it's not the other way around, no matter what some may believe). Certainly some clamouring by the small yet outspoken fanbase for some much missed and loved features from previous games warrants attention.
i missed the GA mode when i played RTW
and now i miss the GA mode in this game.
oh and yeah, eras would be great to have. most of the time i play early but occasionally i play late period for the uber units =P
In that I always finished an Early campaign in the early 1200s I never even saw or got to play with Late units. After a while I always started in High so that I would have Late units to finish the game off with. Also the AI tended to field better armies when you started in High or Late. The hardest game in MTW was as the HRE in Medmod with a High start. I remember us here at the Org having a little contest to see who could survive the first 50 years first. It's good to see that someone will mod the other starts into the game.
High was for em the best, as you get the best challenge from the a.i (developed provinces etc).
That and the GA I miss. I don't always want to be having to crush everybody.
Zenicetus
12-12-2006, 23:52
I never played MTW, but I don't think I'd enjoy eras with the current game. I like starting out weak, with the AI factions weak as well, and with room to expand (rebel provinces as buffers).
If jumping into a later era meant everyone was more well-developed, with bigger economies and larger cities, more powerful armies, all factions rubbing up against each other... well, that's just not as much fun for me. I didn't enjoy playing the late Roman factions in RTW/BI for that reason, but this is just my personal preference. I like expanding from scratch, more or less.
I suppose CA (or the modders) could start us mid-period with weaker factions and some empty provinces, but that wouldn't seem right for the period, I don't think.
How did MTW handle this? Were the factions pretty well built-up in the mid and later periods?
Trithemius
12-12-2006, 23:54
Yes, yes I do.
Somebody Else
12-13-2006, 00:16
Yes. I'm fed up with playing through entire long campaigns, using nothing more than a combination of militia spearmen, militia crossbowmen and ballistas to conquer the known world. I haven't even heard of America yet in any of my games.
How did MTW handle this? Were the factions pretty well built-up in the mid and later periods?
i do want to make my empire from scratch but building spearmen over and over just doesnt cut it =P
oh and in mtw, your a human player. nuff said.
Johan217
12-13-2006, 11:37
I suppose CA (or the modders) could start us mid-period with weaker factions and some empty provinces, but that wouldn't seem right for the period, I don't think.
How did MTW handle this? Were the factions pretty well built-up in the mid and later periods?
This is how it worked in MTW. Every faction would have one or two core provinces that were built up well, but not too much. In addition they would have a number of regions that they possessed historically, but these would normally not be built up much. And there would often be a few rebel provinces bordering each faction.
Each faction would start out with some advanced units, but often you still needed to build the barracks etc to recruit these units yourself.
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