View Full Version : Best anti-personnel artillery is ?
Hi All !
What do people consider the best anti-personnel artillery and why ?
Toss up between serpentine and rocket launcher. Serpentine's rate of fire and range is great. Rocket launcher for the devastation it causes upon a single volley, particularly in an enclosed space.
LOL, those are a hax unit IMHO. In that vein, elephant rocketeers is even better.
I have a feeling that we'd be discussing field pieces rather than panzerphants.
IrishArmenian
12-27-2006, 03:30
Rocket Launcher or Monster Ribault.
Do cannon towers count?
Kobal2fr
12-27-2006, 03:40
Depends on context really.
In a flattish field battle, Serpentines are great. They're not too expensive, fire fast, and kill reasonably well.
For hilly terrain, I'd say basilisk, the increased range means that on a hilltop you can almost reach the whole map, or outreach the opponent's arty if you're the attacker. Pricey.
But for sieges, why, I'll take an order of McRibault with a side-order of multi-barreled shotgun death. Supersized please ! :grin:
pevergreen
12-27-2006, 04:15
Monster ribault.
Theres no contest.
Its like getting the choice between a mortar and a nine barraled shotgun with long range and funnness.
The mongol rocket launcher makes the monster ribault look like a pea shooter. It can wipe out almost an entire enemy squad (On huge unit sizes) with a single volley at point blank.
IrishArmenian
12-27-2006, 06:15
Well, the monster ribault or the rocket launcher work well from point blank range. For me, it is an issue of faction.
If I'm Sicily, I go with the mercenary monster bombard.
Russia, mercenary rocket launcher. That simple. They both bring the desired affect, and they both destroy units.
In my battles a simple catapult with fire ammo normally caused more casualties among the enemy soldiers than Serpentines and Basilisks. It's a bit ridiculous. Trebuchets might even be better but I never followed the seduce to use them on battlefields.
Zenicetus
12-27-2006, 09:45
I like catapults too, at least for the first 2/3 of a campaign before I can gear up for gunpowder artillery. I think the game is rigged so that fire damage completely bypasses armor (which is a little silly, but what the heck). This makes fire ammo catapults great for killing enemy generals in a field battle. They don't hit that often, but when they do hit, it's spectacular.
zulukiller
12-27-2006, 10:10
I like catapults too, at least for the first 2/3 of a campaign before I can gear up for gunpowder artillery. I think the game is rigged so that fire damage completely bypasses armor (which is a little silly, but what the heck). This makes fire ammo catapults great for killing enemy generals in a field battle. They don't hit that often, but when they do hit, it's spectacular.
Yeah id say thats the most effective artillery peace in game the AI is always using it to snipe my generals. It just seems to me a lot more men die per volley with the catapult compared to gunpowder weapons although gunpowder units are great at takeing out enemy walls and deffense much better than a catapult.
Blademun
12-27-2006, 11:16
Actually, I think the serpentine comes pretty close to the catapults for kills. However, you have to give them a head start. Park your army far away from the enemy and let the Serpentines snipe them off. You can take out their artillery/general with the serpentines because they're so durn accurate. Cannon balls kill anyone they touch and have a great morale penalty.
I think the Serpentine is the best anti-personel cannon. The whole idea of anti-personnel artillery is to force initiative; the enemy just can't sit in their defensive posistion and wait for you or they'll get pounded into dust. Unlike Ribaults/Catapults, Serpentines have the range to stay out of enemy archer fire when firing up hill. They can also take out most types of artillery from range thanks to their accuracy (in this case, assuming the battlefield is relatively flat). To me, this makes them way more usefull then something you have to babysit all the way up to the enemys lines, just to get off maybe one or two good volley before the **** hits the fan.
Serpentines are like sniper rifles while catapults are like grenades.
You can easily snipe the general with 2/3 units of serpentines while it's a matter of luck with catapults. In bridge battles though, catapults really shine.
BTW, rocket launchers are much better than monster ribaults due to their longer range. They are also no less devastating close in. Once they valor up a bit, they become even more deadly.
Oh serpentines are death in bridge battles too... You just can't set them up for flanking fire, you have to fire right down the length of the bridge, because the shot will basically cut a line of dead troops from one end to the the other that way. 100+ kills with one shot is quite doable this way.
Yeah I would have thought it would be serpentines, rcoket launchers (those are the best I think, but suffer short range), and catapults.
Now I'm heading towards gunpowder and "settling" down as the Turks. Introducing infantry heavy armies for guarding the borders. Want to add in some artillery, but the only option for Turks in the anti-personanel range is cannons or catapults I think. Any suggestions ?
baron_Leo
12-28-2006, 01:18
Hi! I always forget to build arty producing dwellings:-) I almost never use arty in open field battles, only when one of my siege armies is intercepted. But I really hate when the enemy has artillery. I usually try to destroy them with cavalry, but often, the cav gets stuck in them. Argh. But my fav. cannon is monster ribault. It's just cool.:-)
rcoket launchers (those are the best I think, but suffer short range)
They are actually fairly long range. 250 IIRC compared with long range archer's 160. While not insane, it's quite respectable.
As the Turks, merc rocket launchers are the way to go, hands down. Throw in catapults for bridge defenses. They are invaluable for being able to fire over the heads of your men.
Yeah but you don't want to actually use the rocket launcher at it's max range. It only does it's real damage potential at point blank. Seriously, try it... fire it at max range into an armored unit. You'll get 1 or 2 kills. Fire it at point blank and you'll get 100.
Try a valored up version of rocket launchers, they are quite good even at range. Besides, I only shoot at maximal range to target eles. Those definitely are easy to hit even at range (sometimes my rockets end up sniping the crew on top).
Aedile Rich
12-28-2006, 20:01
Trebuchet!
Has to be worth a mention, even if only for their ability to fire out over castle walls when under siege. :2thumbsup:
Trebs are indeed awesome if only for the "OMG, cows" factor.
Aedile Rich
12-28-2006, 21:38
Trebs are indeed awesome if only for the "OMG, cows" factor.
Oh LOL, yes!
How could I forget that? :smash:
LOL!
Ok merc rocket launchers it is then.
I hate short range .. ugh yeah it's not terrible but you know what I'd like is a cross between a serpentine and a cannon. Faster rate of fire than a cannon and longer range than a serpentine. Besides those rcoket launchers will be getting shot up by xbows and all.
AVANCEE LA VACHE !
Forward Observer
12-29-2006, 00:54
My vote for the most versatile and best all around man killing siege engine goes to the lowly ballista. In the first Medieval game the ballista was just not that useful, but as modeled in Medieval 2, with mobility and in the "flame on" mode, it is the equivalent of a medieval RPG and is the work horse of most of my western armies.
Besides being the cheapest and the earliest “big gun” one can acquire, it is also the most consistently accurate--making it not only useful in sieges but also in field battles.
In reality the ballista was more of a Roman period weapon and was hardly used in the middle ages in favor of the heavier stuff like the trebuchet, but what makes it so useful in this game is its consistent accuracy--better than even the gunpowder weapons.
In a siege the ballista can handle any wooden fort and take out the gates of any stone edifice. With enough of them one can actually take out a stone wall. It takes forever and is unrealistic of course, but I actually lost a city defense once to this fact. They also are better than standard archers at sniping troops through and behind the merlins on the walls
Even if I get a message that my spies have opened the gates, I blow them open anyway because many times there will be a unit parked right behind the portal and since the ballista is a flat trajectory weapon you can pick them off right through the portal. Even after I have blown down walls with my heavier stuff, the ballistae is perfect for sniping the units that will move in to block the gap.
Sure, the big boys can take out a large group with one hit, but they only hit bout 20% of the time. The ballista will generally score a hit at least 65% or more of the time, which turns it into a big bore sniper weapon. If one is shooting at troops with deep ranks the ballista can shish kabob quite a few with a single flaming bolt, and if you can manage to flank a unit so you can shoot down their ranks in perfect enfilade you can actually score up to 10 or 12 kia’s with a single two shot salvo. I think 17 dismounted knights was my best score with a single salvo. I have had single 2X ballistae units with 120 plus kill ratios after a battle. I have yet to score as many kills consistently with any other heavy gun.
I think I got about 7 guys in the shot below
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/medieval22006-12-1820-34-27-59.jpg
In this picture, I only had one ballistae unit with just 8 men left. It had already decimated about 30 men of a feudal knight unit at anther gap when I noticed a 60man halbert unit at about a 60% angle to the wall at the front gate. All that is left is a greasy stain on the ground diagonal to the entrance. I still had enough ammo left to take out 20 to 25 more feudal knights standing next to them.
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/medieval22006-12-2813-20-11-20.jpg
Here is a shot of a similar situation. I ended up taking out 75 spearmen and all of the generals guard including the general.
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/medieval22006-12-1522-38-05-28.jpg
When defending, if the attacker has knocked a hole in my wall, most of the time they will not send troops in until they have knocked out any towers and maybe knock down another wall elsewhere. This can give me a chance to move ballista unit into the gap. On several occasions by doing this I was able to completely disable all of the attacker's siege equipment before they could do any real further damage.
In a besieged situation, and if I determine that the attackers are made up of small armies and do not have a their own engines, I sally on the first move. This does not allow them to build towers or rams. Since I play with the timer off, I have to make them rout or take a loss. If they do not have missile units, I simply roll my ballista out the front gates and start pouring it on.
Alternately, if they do have archers, but everybody is safe behind the walls, my absolute favorite tactic is to put together a small hit squad of a couple of ballistae units along with what ever I can spare for protection--maybe a couple of heavy infantry, as many archer units, and some mounted knights. I then take these out one of the side gates and make a wide circle around to come in on the flanks of the attackers.
I will repeat that this only works well if the attacking army is mostly foot troops. If they have a lot of archers (mounted or foot) they may break off to engage your flanking force when you get within their radar, but this can also be circumvented by keeping those enemy archers otherwise occupied by sending a cheap spear unit to stand out in front of the gates as a sacrifice.
The only big choice is whether to go after the enemy's left or right flank. I usually go for their right so I can take out as many troops as possible without harming the commander. From the left you may kill the general too early and they will simply run off
Of course the ballista has to be protected in the field, and as all siege engines they are highly susceptible to cavalry rushes, which makes them much less useful against the Eastern and Mongol type armies. Additionally their range is only slightly better than longbows, so one also has to be careful to try to keep them out of enemy missile range.
Since ballista has a low trajectory they have to be either adjacent to or in front of freindly troops, so one nifty method of protection for a defense is to park the ballista right behind a unit of archers who can plant stakes. After the battle starts, simply move the archers back and the ballista up.
So I humbly submit the ballista as the most versatile all around killing engine in the game and at only 370 florins per unit, the absolute best bang for your man bar-b-que buck.
Cheers
Blademun
12-29-2006, 09:36
Awesome post. :2thumbsup: I will agree that the Ballista is the best artillery for the buck. I still think the very best anti-personell artillery is the serpentine. During extended shootouts, my Serpentines score 100+ kills per unit. Ballistas are great for castle fights tho'. Their dead on accuracy really suprised me. They completely outdid my catapults for kills.
Excellent post Forward Observer !
PureFodder
12-29-2006, 15:14
Sally forth with a couple of Mortars against a full stacked army.
Target whichever unit is in the middle of the formation.
sit back and laugh as they massacre them.
Sir_Hawkwood
12-29-2006, 16:16
Defending a siege, I think that mortars are the best.
I've got at least 5 in every border settlement, the rest of the garrison being made up of Bill-scum and Chav*-archers...
Never lost a siege due to the power of the mortar battery.
Outside of that, I tow around Culverins and my old, leveled up ballistas.
I agree with Forward Observer, that when leveled up a ballista is a very dangerous weapon, due to its constant accuracy.
Having said that, I wonder how effective my gunpowder artillery would be right now, had I taken the time to build it up rather than improve my ballistas?
* UK modern slang for Peasants, identified by their large sports logos and cheap chunky jewellery...
Mortars. They have the best accuracy of all the AP gunpowder artillery, and do fantastic AoE damage to everything. They can easily hit moving targets at good range. They are useful on any battlefield, although they shine in sieges. They are basically gurenteed to take out a piece of siege equipment in thier first shot, followed by any troops you desire.
TevashSzat
12-29-2006, 17:52
I would say ribaults since shooting them point blank range into infantry is almost instant death for the whole unit. They are even better when defending cities since the ai sends his whole army through the one little gate. All you need is like 5 units of peasants to hold their army and keep it compact. Get 8 or 9 ribaults the fire right into it, 600 to 700 causualties easily since they are so compacted. That is the only reason i am holding Baghdad from the mongols right now.
Flavius Gonzo
12-29-2006, 17:53
My turkish campaign just moved into the brave new gunpowder world last night, and I'm curious about how to use arty gunpowder.
I'm a big fan of open field battles with arty, not just for seiges, so I'm curious how to use it. So far I've gotten a few bombards & cannons into combat, no monster bombards yet. Any thoughts on which is the best for an open field battle? Looking at the descriptions, it seems that cannons might be better for anti-personel than monster bombards, is that right? (Or who knows, maybe distance/splash damage make up for the slower reload?)
Also, I've noticed in some battles where I've had only bombards that the line of sight thing is different/trickier than trebuchets... can bombards not shoot over a line of infantry in front of them, or only if they are propped up on a hill? Is the same true of Cannons & Monster Bombard? If this is the case, Trebs may still be the best anti-personel weapon for the Turks.
Also, without cheating, where can I get merc rocket launchers? And are serpentines not available to the Turks?
I would say the best Turkish options for artillery in open battles (is what I meant in the Op):
-Rocket Launchers
-Catapults
-Cannons
-Ballistas
I would use Cannons actually because I just love the range advantage. But from this discussion I'd say Merc Rocket Launchers are the best overall unit. Forward Observer also put forth a compelling Ballista argument which you may want to consider. Thing is I want the loud noises, things blowing up, you know ? Bombards (monsters, little ones and all) seem to have flatter projectile trajectory than their other gunpowder partners, but they do and can shoot in an arc.
Merc Rocket Launchers are available in the steppe, next province north of Yerevan. I would also recommend Panzerphant artillery available in Arabia (Mosul, Baghdad, Jedda). If you REALLY wanna have a laugh type this is console:
create_unit Yerevan "Elephant Rocketeers" 5 9 3 3
Guaranteed to make you crack up when you use those babies in battle !
Serpentines are not available to the Turks, sadly. Those were my favorite in MTW. I really miss them. In one multiplayer battle with a mate, we set up a partial reenactment of a historical Ottoman formation (using serpentines instead of cannon), and it was amazing. Fantastic battle, and the formation actually worked.
Really miss serpentines for the Turks.... but am making do with cannons.
I wish there was a way to preload the artillery, it has always been a problem in this series.
Ja, that'z imbecelic, start zer battel wizzout guns loaded ? Dumbkopf !
Flavius Gonzo
12-29-2006, 21:17
Is there something about Catapults that make people think they are better than Trebs for the open field? To me it's a no brainer -- Trebs have a much longer range and are therefore superior to Catapults, but maybe I've missed something wrt accuracy, etc. Plus, there's the fetchez la vache factor, handy in some open field situations. The disadvantage is that teching up to a siege engineer is difficult early in the game.
Also, I use fire/exploding ammo ALWAYS except if bashing city walls during the daytime. Is there any open field situation where it's better to extinguish flames on your arty?
Callahan9119
12-29-2006, 23:15
i used rocket launcher in a little test in custom game, had 1 RL and 1 unit of guns, i had the english against me with 1 unit of guns and a ribault, when the guns got in range of each other and started firing on one another i noticed my gunners were dropping like flies, i was like man those english guns must be goood
i was focused in on the english watching the death animations, i moved the camera on my guys to notice that my rocket launcher wasnt launching so well, and was blowing the crap out of my gunners, even at 50 yards behind them :ahh:
Flavius, it's accuracy more than anything. Most of the artillery is rather inaccurate, but the degree of spread is related to the range to target. The farther off it is, the farther off target a round can land. Since trebuchets outrange catapults by a large margin, they are far less accurate at the edge of their range than catapults are at theirs. You have to bring cats into the range of missile troops with the "long range missiles" tag to be able to shoot at them, while you don't with trebuchets. However, there's been a couple of battles where I've had missile duels between 4 units of pavise crossbow militia on my side and 4 units of trebuchets on the part of the enemy, and I won. The trebs are so inaccurate that they can't seem to hit a thin line of troops except rarely. When they DO hit, it causes a lot of casualties, but I typically will only get hit once or twice total during the exchange. Ballistae are a LOT more accurate.
Me, I like trebuchets against walls, but I don't start dragging any artillery to a field battle until post-gunpowder, unless I just happen to get caught by an army marching towards a settlement I intend to take with it.
Now, after gunpowder, I'll bring them along sometimes. Not always, not even regularly, just sometimes. I use a couple of units of culverins/cannons/basilisks to counter the artillery spam the AI likes so much. I've never yet played a faction that had serpentines. The range on culverins and basilisks is just insane. They also make quick work of walls and towers.
Flavius Gonzo
12-29-2006, 23:40
OK, I think that makes sense. So, is it safe to say though that at the same distance, catapults & trebs will cause similar damage? The issue as you are describing is that even though trebs can fire further away, at the furthest ranges it's tough to make a direct hit, and therfore not valuable, whereas with cats, you know that if you are in range you get good accuracy, right?
If fought several battles against the Sicilians where I've tried to soften up their line of Pavises with trebs first from a longer distance -- I agree it's tough to get a lot of hits, but the few that you get make a good deal of difference when you bring up your own archers to duel with them.
Yep, trebuchets are horribly inaccurate. Also, in a counterbattery situation, the trebuchet just about always loses to catapults simply due to their enormous size (they are too inaccurate to capitalize on their range advantage).
I rarely bring siege in field battles early on now. Prepatch, 2 units of ballistas for flanking + a catapult for kicks are great for masscring the passive AI. Now, they don't get so many shots off and simply slow your movement down.
Postgunpowder, merc rocket launchers are invaluable (esp. in sieges). Haven't had too much experience with other pieces. Panzerphants are a great addition to any army (don't even slow the movement of a cav army).
In the beginning ofc I did all cavalry, but now if I keep expanding it's a nuisssance to micromanage everything. So I want some more or less static armies, just sitting there at chokepoints, wating to shoot stuff up.
BOOM !!! BANG !!! WOOP de WOOP !!! KAPOW !!! BUAHAHAHHA!!!
In most of my Eastern faction games, I use static armies too often.
It's like the blitz. Horse archer/lancer armies punch holes in enemy lines and destroy large stacks in the field. Heavy infantry armies follow up to do siege assault and defense. Lighter infantry/militia do occupation. Waves of agents help with assimilation.
Artillery is great for guarding any bridges or choke points with a defensive stack.
In my experience, the Balista is good against other artillery like catapults. For anti Infantry arty, A well aimed barrage of Rocket Artillery fire is excellent. But the best are the Panzerphant :yes:
Antipodean
12-31-2006, 04:09
I always ignored ballistae until one day I jumped a pathetic little 5 unit HRE army with a full stack of cranky Sicilians. The 2 HRE ballistae took out my four catapults before they got a shot off: one ballista shot, one less catapult. Then proceeded to eat holes in my stack before they got close enough to do some smiting. I won, but my casualties were similar to what I'd expect from an equal numbers engagement, humiliating...
Post powder, I like to use 4 or 5 units of serpentines and a unit of culverin (or all culverins if I can't have serps because I'm a pom or something). I back them up with 4 units of heavy cav and fill the rest of the stack with elite melee reasonable archers (as french I use scots guard rather than crossbow dudes). The fast firing serps cut the enemy to ribbons, then they usually break as the remnants charge home into the burning arrow fire. It works with culverins and basilisks, but if I have access to serps I just bring one or two big guns to sort walls out.
I don't much like bombards or any of the other slow, short range primitive bang bangs. The serpentines, culverins and basilisks pick up chevrons quickly with kills and progress rapidly from accuracy only a bit better than a catapult, to elite ballista quality marksmanship, but across the far side of the battlefield. You'll never again need to face an enemy general with 36 elite bodyguard, or worry about the enemy artillery getting into range (and should an enemy artillery piece survive by shear luck, there'll be so few naughty enemy dudes around it that it becomes practical to just wipe it out with a cav unit).
I found trebs to be more than a bit useless against anything smaller than a city wall until recently I used them pre powder, on the immediate flanks of my archer double line in an archer rich army, while the supporting cav were away slaughtering other things. They're big enough to totally break an enemy cav charge to the flank, and with the breaks on the enemy horsies, archers have an even chance to cause some hurt to the naughty wicked cav in melee. It worked so well I'm using them for this purpose at the moment and considering it just luck if the trebs actually manage to do something hurtful to the foe in their own rite.
Sheogorath
12-31-2006, 13:20
I once set up a battle between the Timurids and the Spanish.
The Spanish were loaded down with elites, Terico Pikemen, musketeers, conquistadors.
I had nothing but rockets, a general, and a unit of elephants.
Guess who won?
(Also note, I didnt use the elephants :P)
If you think that's funny, try giving a musket unit the rocket projectile line from the rocket launcher unit in the EDU, and watch what happens. Even if you reduce their ranged attack to 20 or so they will literally wipe out an entire enemy unit with a single volley at point blank. Well, maybe not wipe out, but kill 100 men and rout the unit, yet.
Ouch ! that would be fun to watch.
Hey i was looking through my folders (New Year's cleaning you may call it) and I found this old screenshot.
It's from a multiplayer game in MTW. It was a 3vs3, the 3 of us on my team were split up, cavalry, foot, and missile and artillery. 3 seperate armies acting as one, hence why I only have arty and missile since that was my "regiment".
Check the Serp kills.
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/canonnade.jpg
If you guys have good kill scores post away ! Would be good to see.
It's too bad I didn't screenshot it... But one time I ran a custom battle, with a huge army on both sides, and one unit of serpentine in my castle.
The serpentine only got off one shot, literally, only one of the two cannons fired, and it only went off once... But the enemy army was completely packed into the gateway of my castle, and that one shot put the entire army into rout.
When I checked the unit statistics at the end, it said that serpentine unit had 145 kills.
That reminds me, When I used my Balista to Snipe Mongol catapults, they came with their battering ram. I could not attack it with my Balista because the enemy archers were laying down suppressing fire on them if they left the city. (I was the moors and this was in Tunis) So the ram broke threw my gates but the Mongols got a volley of deadly close-range balista fire. That routed most of the enemy infantry but the Mongols still attacked with their calvary, bad move because Most of my army was Spearmen, who slaughtered
them.
BrianMHS
01-01-2007, 07:22
I want to try out Serpentines in my campaign. What's the unit name, so I can add_unit?
In my experience, Rocket Launchers > Monster Ribaults based on increased range and increased explosive killing power.
Basilisks aren't very good against personnel. Decent accuracy, but they'll only take out 4-8 people on a direct hit.
Trebuchets are hilarious from about 30 feet. Just whips the giant rock almost striaght down on your units. Ineffective, but scary.
It's probably NE_Serpentine.
Ever had a point blank catapult hit before? Once, I was fighting the Sicilian King in a siege. His unit was stuck reforming in the streets while my catapult was about a whooping 12 feet away. I ordered the catapult to fire and it point blanked 1/2 of the BG unit.
I was laughing so hard. I then pinned the BG with some cheapo slav mercs and then did two more catapult shotgunnings to finish him off.
Zenicetus
01-01-2007, 20:56
Ever had a point blank catapult hit before? Once, I was fighting the Sicilian King in a siege. His unit was stuck reforming in the streets while my catapult was about a whooping 12 feet away. I ordered the catapult to fire and it point blanked 1/2 of the BG unit.
I was laughing so hard. I then pinned the BG with some cheapo slav mercs and then did two more catapult shotgunnings to finish him off.
That's hilarious! I guess CA didn't bother with a minimum range limit. I'm imagining the crew just cranking it back a little bit, and sorta dropping the rock on the enemy's head. :laugh4:
Forward Observer
01-01-2007, 21:39
Just thought I would post the following two shots as examples of my side flanking tactic when besieged.
I was defending Jerusalem for about the umpteenth time--this time against the Egyptians. I had a good size army, but mostly archers, only 4 units of real infantry, one unit of mounted knights not counting my General's unit, and only 2 units of artillery--a mortar and a ballistae unit.
The Egyptian force had 3 archer units, 3 or 4 Arab cavalry, 1 missile cavalry, maybe 4 spear units, the general's heavy cav, and both a catapult and a trebuchet unit. Fortunately their trebs and cats couldn't seem to get it together and do much damage before my mortar took them out.
Then they stupidly parked their Mamluk missile cavalry on their right wing within range of my longbows on the walls, so they were eventually wiped out. Now all I had to worry about were the foot archers.
I put my 4 heavy infantry with 4 longbow units and my knights to protect my one ballista unit and went out the side gate. I went for the enemies left flank because it was closer and most of their cavalry was on their right flank.
When I got in position, I sent a sacrificial depleted 8 man unit of spears out the front gate to keep the Egyptian missile troops occupied. I had two other light infantry units, but never had to use them.
In this shot I marked the spearmen (red circle) taking all the missile fire while my ballista systematically nibbles away at the enemy ranks
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/medieval22006-12-3018-57-31-50edit.jpg
They finally broke and withdrew. I lost 55 men and they lost 682, but the but look at my ballista unit's score---195 kia's--not bad for one unit!
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/medieval22006-12-3019-13-24-67paint.jpg
I realize that this is out-gaming the game since any reasonable army would move to meet such a cheap flanking trick, but hey--a win is a win!
As a historical aside, in reality trebuchets were probably the most accurate seige engine of all and that includes most of the the primitive smooth bore artillery. While its range was limited to about 300 yards, unlike other primitive artillery, the trebuchet's propelling energy relied on the absolute constant of the force of gravity. Unless one changed the position of the engine, the length of the throwing arm, the fulcrum position, or the size of the counterweight---a trebuchet would put a projectile of uniform size and weight in the same spot just about every time.
All of the other big guns--whether torsion or black powder were affected by temperature, humidity, and in the latter's case the consistency of the manufacture of the propellant.
Cheers
Von Nanega
01-02-2007, 12:29
Good screenies F.O. I have begun to use more arty in my armies after reading your posts.
As the Spanish, I had one battle where I had 2 small armies against one. The army I attacked with was 4 jinetes and 2 mounted crossbows. The reinforcement army was a single swordsman militia and a basilisk. I pinned the rebels with the main army and had enfilade fire with the basilisk. Bowling for rebels, a dozen men per cannonball, right down the line.
That's just beautiful. It matches with my general experience that artillery typically has problem finding range (further or closer) while they are pretty good with regard to left-right alignment. Thus, for best results, shoot at flanks.
Alexander the Pretty Good
01-02-2007, 19:22
Hey, with a name like Forward Observer, of course he's going to be good with artillery.:laugh4:
I like the Serpentine - it makes me feel like I'm playing NTW or something. And it can double as a pretty destructive siege engine.
Yeah, thanks to him I'm using ballistae for the 1st time ever. Thanks FO.
pike master
05-13-2007, 05:45
1 rocket launcher
2 monster ribault
3 serpentine
4 catapult with flames( just plain annoying, causes post trauma episodes from rome 8( ]
Furious Mental
05-13-2007, 15:23
I think it depends what you are doing. In most situations I would say rockets, but if defending a bridge I would say serpentines because they can carve through dozens of soldiers with each shot.
Pater Familias
03-25-2008, 23:09
And just a word from the Kingdoms side of the fence:
Mangonel.
My first battle with one (having not really read the unit description), I targeted an 8-star general on the other side, hoping to dent his scary big bodyguard unit before we got to the serious business. As I watch, the projectile goes up, the projectile goes off midair, and a ball of flaming goo lands on the enemy general and another mounted knight next to him.
Cut to the "God be praised, we have killed the enemy general" scene.
Back to the main battle screen: The bodyguard routs on the spot ... the rest of the enemy army (a vast collection of militia, largely, made imposing by the general's command points) routs w/in about 30 seconds, lock, stock and errr, barrel. :laugh4:
It went from a tense battle to a slaughter in the first shot. Now I know it's not always going to be that precise, but what an introduction.
Vladimir
03-27-2008, 17:32
Catapults. Either defending a bridge or a gate they leave a 10^2 meter area of burnt troops. Quite effective against morale and generals.
IvarrWolfsong
03-27-2008, 17:48
any artie being used by the ai in stainless steel:furious3:
love the mod but the GPS satelite driven targetting array of on those trebs makes me bananas:laugh4:
The biggest blob of death I ever caused was with an onager. I was Antioch and the Turks were attacking me in the mountains near Damascus / Jerusalem. They were all squished into a chokepoint as they came up the mountain pass. The onager barrel didnt explode and instead landed right in the middle making a big flaming blob of turk-ka-bob. It was over a hundred dead or so because the onager had ~150 kills. Most of the enemy army routed but was rallied by the Sultan's brat.
The flip side is that the enemy came again and was wiped out by my armenian archers and heavy inf. The 3 units of archers had over 200 kills each... I could have scrapped the onager and got more Glendale archers.
Eikon the Magistrate
03-27-2008, 18:21
Ballista and Culverin
the ballista is amazingly accurate. after breaking a hole in a wall ill position it in the correct angle and let it get some chevrons while it minces thru the flanks of the defending AI.
Technically the basilisk is a later wep so it should be better than the culverin...but ive never really used it i like the look of the culverin better I guess.
Pater Familias
03-28-2008, 00:07
Ballista and Culverin
the ballista is amazingly accurate. after breaking a hole in a wall ill position it in the correct angle and let it get some chevrons while it minces thru the flanks of the defending AI.
Technically the basilisk is a later wep so it should be better than the culverin...but ive never really used it i like the look of the culverin better I guess.
Playing Spain in the Americas, the culverin in a siege almost seems like cheating. You knock a couple of big holes in the walls and the AI huddles in the central square. Then you turn on the exploding shot and it literally never misses the horde, who don't run for cover or counter attack ... I might have to try a harder difficulty level, because it was way easy on Medium.
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