KotR Imperial Diet II [Archive] - Page 2

Csargo

03-26-2007, 07:06

This...unorthodox, crusade was decided by a vote to hold to key to the salvation of the Holy Roman Empire, it is without a doubt that this is the most important military action ever undertaken by the Riech. This great force, with the future of the riech dependant upon it's success, calls for, nay, DEMANDS the leadership of the Chancellor. Should that man also have royal blood, then all the better as the Kaiser is too old to partake. In short, it would be irresponsible for the Chancellor to sit at home, while the future of the riech was decided thousands of mile away.

What good is a Crusade if the entire Reich falls into disarry? I doubt anyone here needs to be reminded that we are surrounded by Kings who wish to destroy everything we've worked so hard to build over the years because of our seizing of Rome. And now you wish to elect a Chancellor that will be on a Crusade for years to come, and who will take weeks if not months to decide issues of grave importance. I mean no disrespect my Prinz, but what if such a tragedy were to befall the Reich? How would a man such a great distance away from the Reich be able to handle it?

The Fifth Elector of Franconia sits with a calm expression on his face thinking he's made his point.

Warluster

03-26-2007, 07:50

I have to agree with The Fifth Elector of Franconia and fifth elector of Austria, there points made already...

Though I agree with this, I support the Prinz in goong for CHancellorship.

Ituralde

03-26-2007, 08:37

Dear brother Henry, let me assure that I will not exercise unecessary force against the Venetians should the city fall into my hands, unless of cours the Venetians give me cause to do this. To waylay all your fears you could even propose an Edict strictly forbidding any such act, I would gladly offer one of my Ducal Edicts for it, should it be required.

As I have mentioned I have no intention of harming or hindering the Crusade, quite the opposite. One reason for running for Chancellorship was to help the Crusade by relieving Henry of this burden, if he does not wish this, he must but say so.
It seems however that we both find ourselves in a position where we have split the Diet into those believing in a Crusadig Chancellor and into those that believe it would be better if the Chancellor stayed at home. It would be imprudent now for either of us to withdraw his candidacy, as this body seems bent on making a decision here.
Let me reassure all of you though, that whomever comes out on top in the upcoming Election, neither of you must fear that Crusade or Reich will be left unattended. My brother and I are both capable of making the right decisions that will assure our missions success without neglecting the defense of the Reich.

I second Edict 6.1 and 6.3

TinCow

03-26-2007, 12:04

Duke Leopold, what is your position on the proposed legislation that would strip the Crusaders of their lands and rights? Do you believe that those of us who are taking up the Cross for the good of the Reich should be punished in this way?

econ21

03-26-2007, 12:11

Prinz Henry: A list of proposed edicts and their first two seconders has been posted at the entrance to this Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1461425&postcount=1

The deadline for edicts is 23.00 UK time on Tuesday.

I have seconded charter ammendents 6.2 and 6.3.

FactionHeir

03-26-2007, 12:16

*reads through the proposed edicts*

*scribbles secondment for edict 6.2*

Ituralde

03-26-2007, 12:27

Count Mandorf, I believe that the Edict proposed by Duke von Saxony merely states that the lands of the Crusaders be given to Stewards for caretaking for the duration of the Crusade. Coming from the midst of your Council I did not expect this harsh opposition to it.
While I agree to its spirit and would urge every Crusader to follow it, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to have it imposed by this body. Every Duke and Count should choose for himself whether he is willing to leave the runnings of his domains to his scribes or whether he puts it in the hands of a capable Steward. Many dangers will await you on your journey, so maybe it's prudent to appoint a successor.

That being said, I'm curious why you are so interested in my opinion on this particular matter. It's not as if I had any influence over it were I elected Chancellor and you seem to have made up your mind about my candidacy anyway?

Kagemusha

03-26-2007, 12:43

Dietrich takes the stand.

"Count Mandorf. I dont see my proposal as punisment in any way. My thoughts were strictly with what i see as best for the Reich. Same way as a neighbour takes good care of his neighbours house when the other one is on a journey,so should Reich take care of the lands of the brave crusaders,while they can hardly effectively control what is happening in their domains,when they are in far away lands, lacking contact to the Reich.
Dont you trust your country men to take care of Nurnberg while you are away? I trust mine and i cant see how we should handle the affairs of the Reich,when we will hardly know what is happening in the Holy Roman Empire, while we will we be in far away lands."

econ21

03-26-2007, 12:56

OOC:

The House of Swabia proposes the following:

OOC Charter Amendment 6.5: The Chancellor will use the "character_reset" command in the console to double the movement of crusading stacks (so long as they are not part of proper crusade missions). This amendment expires once Jerusalem falls to the crusaders.
Proposed: Prinz Henry
Seconded: 5th Elector of Swabia, 6th Elector of Swabia

The idea is to make the crusade about as fast as normal crusades, speeding up the time it takes us to get to Jersualem. Discussion should be in the OOC thread.

Ignoramus

03-26-2007, 13:03

The Sixth Elector of Swabia rises to his feet and addresses the Diet.

Mein electors, while I applaud the Crusade and those who take up the cross and fight for the Holy City, I cannot approve how the land that is wrested from the infidel is to be alotted.

Those fighting the infidel are paying with their own gold their retainers and will suffer much hardship and toil on their march to the Levant, that I think it only fair that if they chose to remain and defend the Holy City that they be granted the lands that they themselves have taken.

Charter Ammendment 6.6: "Any lands taken in the east by those on Crusade shall be assigned to those that took them. If two or more generals lead the assault, then the Council of Crusaders shall determine to whom the land is assigned."

TinCow

03-26-2007, 13:44

Frankly, Duke von Saxony, no, I do not trust that the the Steward of Bavaria will manage Nuremberg in a properly Christian manner while I am away. I respect Gerhard Steffen's intelligence and his skill in combat, but it is well known that he has no regard whatsoever for the Holy Father. It has been my objective for some time to turn Nuremberg into a place of pilgrimage for all Christians. How can a believe that a man who is notorious for his lack of piety will see these desires fulfilled?

Your Charter Amendment only helps those that it does not need to help in the first place. If any man believes his lands can be effectively managed by another while he is gone, then he is free to appoint a Steward or hand over his lands to his Duke. There is nothing that is stopping you from doing this. Yet those of us who believe that our personal orders are necessary to ensure that our lands are developed as we would wish them to be must be allowed to continue to exercise our authority. I assure you, my personal staff in Nuremberg will know exactly what to do and will be prompt in informing the Chancellor of the build queues.

This is not a matter of difficulties arising from our displacement from the lands of the Reich. This is a matter of removing our lawful rights to govern our own lands as we see fit. What is next? Shall we prevent any man from governing his lands if he so much as steps foot outside the borders of his province?

Stuperman

03-26-2007, 20:16

Charter Ammendment 6.6: "Any lands taken in the east by those on Crusade shall be assigned to those that took them. If two or more generals lead the assault, then the Council of Crusaders shall determine to whom the land is assigned."

I vehimently aoposed this ammendment, as it only serves to punish Austria which lacks enought family members to go on Crusade and defend their homeland. If you are unhappy with the Kaiser's distrobution of Settlements, I suggest you take it up with him.

I would also like to take this time to voice my opposition for Edict 6.2, the Chancellor has 3 regiments of spear militia, and 2 regiments of peasent crossbowmen, this, along with this body gaurd is more than enough to defend himself against the pope, Infact the Kaiser's Garison is as powerful as the entire Bavairan Household army at this point. The money would be better spent rebuilding the household armies than further garisoning a well defended, un-threatened city.

ArchdukeEvan

03-26-2007, 22:00

Admendment 6.6 is... as said before... only a way to drag Austria out of the Holy Land... a House-per-Town distripution is a fair... and un arguable... way of doing things...

5th Elector, you ask how could we have a Crusader Chancellor? I ask you how could we not?

if... as you have obviously not listened... you should look at your Scribes recording... I have said... all of my problems... in the form of questions... about a crusading Chancelor... that is all the more i will say to that question...

Northnovas

03-26-2007, 22:25

The Third Elector returns to the Diet and stands before the members...

I know the time is running late and before we close I wish to put forward an Edict proposed by my Duke and seconded by myself and the 5th Elector.
Edict 6.4:
Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority.
Motion by Duke Leopold
Second by The Third and Fifth Elector of Austria

OverKnight

03-26-2007, 22:28

My Lords, Bavaria wishes to propose a House Edict:

Edict 6.5: The Chancellor must attempt to secure Byzantine military access for the Crusade. Florin payment (single or tribute) is authorized for this purpose, at the Chancellor's discretion. If this cannot be achieved, the Chancellor must give the Byzantines a gift of 200 florins tribute for 10 turns.
Proposed: Maximillian Mandorf
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Gerhard Steffen

The Byzantine Empire is a neighbor and a Christian, if not Catholic, Empire. The Crusade will have to pass through their territories, but we should do what we can to soften the blow. This will help ensure that the Reich is not left with an enemy on its borders.

I also have my own edict to propose:

Edict 6.6: If a territory is to be used in negotiations with foreign powers, the Chancellor must first gain the permission of its rulers, the Kaiser for Imperial lands or the respective Duke for Duchy lands, to do so.

By proposing this I hope to clarify a matter not well covered in our Charter.

econ21

03-26-2007, 22:39

Prinz Henry: Duke Otto, if in Edict 6.6 you mean negotiations with foreign powers, I am sure that we can take Edict 6.6 as an unspoken part of the Charter. There would be little point the Emperor allocating settlements to Houses if the Chancellor could simply dispose of them to foreign powers. Unless any Elector speaks against it in the next 24 hours, I propose to simply add it to the Charter.

OverKnight

03-26-2007, 22:42

Sometimes the unspoken is best said aloud, lest confusion reign.

I have added foreign powers into edict 6.6.

TinCow

03-26-2007, 23:53

I do not believe Edict 6.6 is necessary in regards to the Ducal Houses. Rule 4.4 states:

Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

The word permanently clearly indicates that, at a minimum, it cannot be taken from the Ducal House without the consent of the Duke. I will note that I cannot find any language that would provide similar protection for the Kaiser's lands though. So, I believe this legislation would still be useful for him. At the same time though, I wish to point out that this should probably be a Charter Amendment. By law, Edicts lapse after 10 turns, unless stated otherwise. This legislation clearly needs to extend beyond that. I would suggest changing it to a Charter Amendment simply because I believe it would pass. It would be ungentlemanly to attempt to remove the Kaiser's lands from his control without his permission, even considering his past actions.

I also think there are some legal difficulties regarding Edict 6.4. As with the previous Edict, this one should likely be proposed as a Charter Amendment. I personally doubt whether we will find ourselves reconciled with the Pope within the next 10 turns, so this legislation would be totally useless if it did not extend for a longer period. Second, this Edict would violate Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1, both of which specifically give Dukes the right to declare war on any neutral army that enters their territory. I do not believe that an Edict can violate an Imperial Law, so a Charter Amendment will be needed to achieve the desired effect. I agree with the sentiment behind this legislation though and will support it if it is changed in such a way as to make it useful. Perhaps the Austrians would consider changing their legislation to the following:

Charter Amedment 6.X: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.

Ituralde

03-27-2007, 00:42

Thank you Count Mandorf for pointing out the ovious flaws in the legislation proposed by my fellow Elector. Indeed it has been intended to be a Charter Amendment rather than just an Edict, my scribes must have made a fatal slip there. I'm also thankful for your legal advice. I believe the Third Elector was merely anxious to get this proposed in my name before the Diet closes. Since it is a Ducal Edict, I will change it to the following:

Charter Amendment 6.7:
Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.
Proposed: Duke Leopold
Seconders: The Third and Fifth Elector of Austria

TevashSzat

03-27-2007, 02:22

I would like to second amendment 6.6

Maximillion makes a fine point of giving the conquered lands to whoever conquered them would make a fine incentive, but also think of this. It is most likely that whoever conquered the lands would be the ones defending it. How would you feel about defending the lands that you conquered but were given to another person? Furthermore, there is no point for anyone not in the crusade to govern any settlement as they would have limited information regarding what is occuring in the Holy Lands and would not be a suitable ruler.

I would further like to show my support for amendment 6.7 since myself as well as others would most likely not wish for excommunication that is unncessary as we will be forced to remove the current pope and then seek a more suitable one that may reconcile us

Stuperman

03-27-2007, 02:42

Maximillion makes a fine point of giving the conquered lands to whoever conquered them would make a fine incentive.

Maximillian makes no such point.

It is most likely that whoever conquered the lands would be the ones defending it. How would you feel about defending the lands that you conquered but were given to another person?

I feel that it is my duty to defend this great empire where ever I am needed, would you not fight for the riech just because it is defending your brother's land? And again I must point out that Austria, the smallest of the households, will gain no new territory in the east if this Charter amendment passes as they onle have 1 general of age ,and he must stay at home to defend it.

Furthermore, there is no point for anyone not in the crusade to govern any settlement as they would have limited information regarding what is occuring in the Holy Lands and would not be a suitable ruler.

Messengers will get through, and why must we punish those willing to risk everything for the salvation of the riech?

TevashSzat

03-27-2007, 03:08

Those fighting the infidel are paying with their own gold their retainers and will suffer much hardship and toil on their march to the Levant, that I think it only fair that if they chose to remain and defend the Holy City that they be granted the lands that they themselves have taken

I inferred that from this statement, that holding the lands that the crusaders have taken would make it more desirable to defend the Holy City.

As for the state of the House of Austria, it is regretabble that no one from the house shall join the crusade, but then again, life is not fair. It is simply fate that no more nobles have rose from the ranks to join the House. Also, is it not the Duke's own fault for not having children as early...

Stuperman

03-27-2007, 03:35

I believe that that was put forth by a fellow swabian elector.
after much thought I have realized this Charter Amendment would further complicate the crusade as Only lands the chancellor has control of are ones he can use in negotiation. This would mean that Prinz Henry would have to take our gift city, and not till after he gets the crown.

Ignoramus

03-27-2007, 03:46

The Sixth Elector of Swabia rises to his feet.

Mein fellow elector, Herr Steffen, I only seek to justly give to those what is rightfully theirs. Surely you would not begrudge those who take up the cross their right of conquest?

The Sixth Elector of Swabia resumes his seat.

TinCow

03-27-2007, 04:26

I do not speak for the other Crusaders, but I am not traveling east for personal glory, conquest, or riches. I seek only the blessings of God as the rightful reward for those who take up arms for Christ against the blasphemers. I care not what becomes of the lands we conquer, so long as they are held by righteous Christians. An eternity in the bosom of God the Father is a prize which no earthly plunder can equal.

OverKnight

03-27-2007, 06:59

I will withdraw Edict 6.6 and instead propose:

Charter Amendment 6.8: The disposition of Imperial territory is at the sole discretion of the Emperor.

The new amendment has the advantage of direct language and permanence.

I am opposed to any amendments that would infringe on the Emperor's ability to assign lands. Not just now, but for the future as well. I am on the Crusade for atonement, not to enlarge my holdings.

I also opposed to any amendments that enforce an Empire wide policy on all Crusaders, such as CA 6.1 and 6.4. This should be left to the Duchies to settle internally. If you require an act of contrition and sacrifice by a Crusader I will remind you that I have promised to resign as Duke if Prinz Henry is elected Chancellor. I hope this is enough.

Thank you my Lords.

econ21

03-27-2007, 09:04

Thanks to the industry of Duke Otto's staff, an updated list of Edicts and Amendments has been posted at the Entrance to the Diet.

Ituralde

03-27-2007, 12:03

Don't you think that it is a little bit early to talk about the distribution of land conquered by the Crusaders? Already your are squabbling over the riches of an unpicked fruit. Time will tell where the Crusade will lead you and I am sure that whoever is Kaiser at that point will know to reward those who undertook this strenuous journey first and foremost. Isn't it already stated that only our Emperor shall assign conquered provinces. I think this should suffice for anyone.

I appreciate von Steffens concerns about the state of Austria. It is true that I had wished the Crusade to begin at a later point so that someone from my House would have the ability to join. The way it is I can not go, because I am needed to defend my lands. It truly seems to be fate as the Swabian Elector has pointed out. Why he chose to insult me, because of this, eludes me though.

The Diet is drawing to an end and one of the most important tasks of whomever will become Chancellor has only been lightly touched upon by this Diet. Excommunication, Excommunication and how to remedy it.
So far I believe there are those that hope that once the Crusade reaches its destination and offers the Papacy Jerusalem we will be reconciled. I agree with them, but would also like to point out that this will take a very long time. Time we do not necessarily have, time that our people won't give us. Unrest is running large and I'm curious how any future Chancellor will be able to keep the populous Italian Cities from rioting.
Then there is the Kaiser who wants to sit out every Pope between the current and our Preferati Otterbach. This will also take time, and furthermore will not be as fool-proof. As von Mandorf has pointed out, even a Pope Otterbach would be at war with us and find it difficult to sign peace when he has nowhere to go to.
The third option proposed by me is to give the Pope land now. Be it permanently or not is up to discussion.

I have considered giving up Zagreb for the cause, seeing as it's already beset by Venetians on all side. This would weaken the Austrian border for at least the duration of the Crusade and I don't think we can afford this. The next option could be Venice. I am sure of its fall soon, but then it will not belong to me and I have my doubts whether mein Emperor would give it to me if I would pass it on to anyone else than Pope Otterbach.

All the while I'm pondering on this I wonder why I should do it though. I took no part in the machinations that led to our current situation, quite the opposite I opposed them vehemently from the beginning. Yet I would be the one to pay a high price for everyone of you. I seem to be the only one that has considered this, which makes me ask whether I am surrounded by selfish men, not willing to sacrifice their own land for the greater good of the Reich.
Should I be selfish too then? Should I hold on to my possessions and see how long our excommunication will last? How we lengthen our time in purgatory?

It is a difficult decision that lies in the days ahead of us, so before I do anything rash I would like to hear this Diet's opinion on these matters. How long do you want to wait before we are reconciled? How long can you wait?

OverKnight

03-27-2007, 13:55

Duke Leopold, I believe the Diet has had this discussion before during the Emergency Session a few years back. The decisions reached there are still in effect. Your concern for the Empire speaks well of you, but your idea for the Crusade was voted down, and part of that was your proposal of donating the Reich's current land for peace.

I hope you would not see the Chancellorship as a vehicle to reverse those decisions, including the Crusade, or to work against them. Your proposal concerning Zagreb indicates that you might be. This province is the launching point of the Crusade, and if donated to the Papacy would cause problems for the gathering armies. The Crusade would become a trespasser on land that was once the Reich's.

econ21

03-27-2007, 22:18

Prinz Henry: In view of the quietness of the Diet, I will close this session now and order the scribes to prepare the ballot papers.

Kagemusha

03-28-2007, 11:16

Dietrich Von Saxony stands up and addresses the Diet:

"Mein Kaiser,Prinz,fellow Dukes and electors. I have cast my votes,so it is time for me to say goodbyes. It has been an honour to serve with you on this Imperial Diet. We have had our share of differences,but that is just the way politics are. There is still little time,before we depart to our quest to the Holy land,so i have decided to visit my home Frankfurt before our quest begins. God be with you all and with the Reich. Goodbye."

Dietrich walks around the hall shaking hand of each elector and then leaves the Diet.

TinCow

03-28-2007, 14:18

Apologies for not mentioning this in my Chancellor's reports, but I would like to inform whoever is elected to serve the next term that some of the Reich's cities have been repeatedly targeted by foreign spies attempting to increase unrest. Our own spies have been somewhat successful in combating this, but we must be wary lest riots ensue in places that we did not previously have problems. In particular, it seems as though the Hungarians have been attempting for create rebellion in Vienna and the French in Dijon.

Again, I apologize for not mentioning this sooner. It only occurred to me when I was considering Duke Leopold's orders for the Austrian lands and his comment about public order.

FactionHeir

03-28-2007, 14:54

Indeed I have seen some shady creatures elude the guardsmen in Dijon. It may be a good idea to provide our own spies with some training rather than sending them directly to counterspy a most elusive opponent.

econ21

03-28-2007, 21:15

Prinz Henry: Now that the overwhelming majority of Electors have voted in the Chancellorshop elections, I must concede defeat. Even if the two or three who have not yet voted all voted for me, it would not overturn Duke Leopold's majority. I thank those Electors who did vote for me. I know they will wish to join with me in congratulating the Duke on his victory and in wishing him every success as our next Chancellor.

FactionHeir

03-28-2007, 22:03

*nods to the Prince-Duke*

*looks to Leopold*
I shall be one of the first to congratulate you to your term then. May you guide the empire to a newfound glory and bring Otterbach onto the papal seat.

TinCow

03-28-2007, 22:07

*Maximillian Mandorf becomes visibly uncomfortable at the mention of Cardinal Otterbach. He makes a few excuses to the Electors seated near him and leaves the Diet.*

ArchdukeEvan

03-29-2007, 01:29

Congratulations Fair Duke!

looks at the retiring Mandorf and wnders silently why he truly left

GeneralHankerchief

03-29-2007, 02:05

Kaiser Heinrich:

With Pope Accattus's unfortunate death, I instruct the next Chancellor to support Charles Otterbach in the next Papal election. Should he not be among the preferati, then I instruct the next Chancellor to support the Danish cardinal instead.

OverKnight

03-29-2007, 02:32

Otto stands to speak to the Diet. He appears somewhat flustered.

Well, ah, it seems we will have to find a new Pope to negotiate with as the Kaiser has. . .exercised his veto, as it were. I'm glad the Kaiser has found a hobby to keep himself active in his "retirement".

It is unfortunate that it happened this way, but the foolhardy Pontiff had clearly shown his hostility towards us. I do not agree with the methods used, but that is for others to condemn.

With these actions, it has become clear to me that further war with the Papacy will only bring out our worse natures and eventually lead to the dissolution of the Reich. We may win every battle against them in the field, but we will lose the war in the churches and cities of the Empire.

It is time to make peace and seek reconciliation if we can. If it is with Cardinal Otterbach, so much the better. If we do this we can try to get official sanction for our Crusade in a few years.

Otto pauses, draws a deep breath and continues.

If Chancellor Leopold. . .

Otto clenches his jaw.

If the Chancellor enters into negotiations with the Church, I authorize him to offer Florence for peace and reconciliation. Bavaria will make this sacrifice if we can achieve this. I hope the negotiations will bring us high into the Pope's favor, and he will then sanction our Crusade when Christian fervor has recovered from the failed march on Tunis.

This is a reversal from an earlier decision I made, I know, but I must do this for God and the Reich.

My Lords.

Otto sits, he seems a bit more at peace with himself.

Ituralde

03-29-2007, 14:48

Duke Leopold rises to adress the Assembly. He looks toward Prinz Henry and extends a deep bow.

This Assembly has chosen and I have come out top by a small margin. I salute you my brother for carrying this minor defeat with so much dignity and grace.
I promised that the Crusading effort will not be neglected under my rule and I will hold on to that promise. Be the Chancellor a Crusader or not, this endeavour will have the full support of the Reich! If my scribes inform me correctly, Count Mandorf has taken up the task of transfering the Crusading Councils decision to the Chancellor. I will pay good heed to his advice concerning your journey.

I extend my warmest thanks to those that have supported me, their support will not be forgotten. I thank the House of Franconia for standing behind their Duke, Dietrich von Saxony, a most noble man, whose departure from this Assembly fills me with grief. He will be a grand addition to our Crusading efforts.

Concerning the recent actions of my father, Emperor Heinrich, I am lost for words. He sighs deeply
I have long given up on trying to control your actions and while I don't agree with your actions or the way they were carried out, right under our noses, I once again have to deal with the consequences. Cardinal Otterbach will have the Reich's support should he have ascended to the Preferati. Also I have to thank you for the opportunities this has opened up for the Reich.

He turns to Otto von Kassel, giving him a bow as deep as the preceeding one to Henry.

You, Duke Otto von Kassel are a truly honourable man!
Your services for the Reich and for its concenrs can not be praised high enough! Your wisdom is a shining example for us all. I will glady accept your offering and do my best in the upcoming negotiations with the new Pope.

I want everyone in this room here to remember Otto von Kassel as the man, whose personal sacrifice, may just bring us back from the brink of hell itself. Through his selfless decision he will give us the means for reconciliation that will bring peace and prosperity back to the Reich. Unrest will cease and our neighbours will welcome us back into the Holy Church once again. I will do my best to convince the new Pope that our Crusade should recieve his full support and his holy blessing! Making our task even more glorious!

I want you all to remember this for the time that Jerusalem is ours and it will be given to the Pope. Remember then, that Florence was only given to him temporarily, and don't hesiate to remind the Papacy of this state with every tool available to you. That you remember the sacrifice that has been made today and make the right decisions.

He once again bows to Duke Otto von Kassel.

I am in your debt, Duke von Kassel. In doing what I could not, you have saved the Reich, your legacy will always be remembered!

OverKnight

03-29-2007, 16:02

Otto is visibly embarrassed and a little surprised by Leopold's praise. Rubbing the scar on his face, he rises to speak.

Thank you for your kind words, Chancellor. By offering Florence, I am merely balancing the scales for my past actions. Whatever nobility there is in my gift, it is offset by my initiation of the war with Gregory and the hardship that has followed. We have gained Rome, but at a great cost both physical and spiritual. I did not anticipate this in my pride and arrogance, I thought only of regaining our lost lands and rights and, it shames me to admit, my own advancement. Nothing is ever gained without a cost, I know this now.

I hope I have atoned for my offences against the Reich by offering Florence. Now I must atone for my sins against the Church, whether Gregory was an anti-Pope or not, by taking the Cross. I fear this will prove more difficult.

I must depart for Zagreb, the Crusade is gathering there. Gunther will relay any messages I might have.

Farewell my Lords, may God grant us victory and salvation.

Otto bows to the Kaiser, Prinz Henry and Chancellor Leopold. He then turns and exits the Diet.

GeneralHankerchief

03-30-2007, 02:07

Kaiser Heinrich:

Chancellor Leopold, I authorize you to rearrange Rome's build queue as you see fit, however, I must insist that construction of a cathedral starts by the end of your term.

AussieGiant

03-31-2007, 02:24

A dusty messenger arrives bearing a sealed scroll, clears his throat and begins

I hear your title now includes the words "Chancellor", Duke Leopold!!

I give you my heart felt congratulations Lord Leopold!!

My time in Russia is nearing its end, and as I write this I am already heading back to the Reich.

It seems much has happened in the years I have been away, and things seem to be heading along a better path.

I look forward to being back amongst the gentlemen and lords of the Holy Roman Empire and I am especially looking forward to the Chancellorship of my Duke Leopold!!

A word of warning to you all gentlemen. What I have in these Austrian merchant wagons will make yours eyes water and the nails on your toes curl in delight.

Mandorf, you especially are going to enjoy the belly dancer I have found you. Her name of Olga Kasianikov.

Warm regards to you all.

2nd Elector House Austria.

With those final words the messenger departs in great haste

GeneralHankerchief

04-01-2007, 20:55

Kaiser Heinrich:

So it begins.

Leopold, what do you propose to do to counter this English threat that has unexpectedly landed at Hamburg, should we be attacked?

Ituralde

04-01-2007, 22:12

Mein Kaiser, Dear Electors!

My Chancellorship has truly become as dangerous for the Reich as was to be expected. The Venetians are assembling a huge army just south of Zagreb. The French muster between two and two and a half battle ready stacks to attack our Western front. The Poles are sending their troops through the Eastern forests deep into our heartland. Nobody knows where they will strike next.
And the Pope is hiring mercenaries and disrupting trade close to our capital. That's only the countries we're officially at war with!

The Hungarians have a large Crusader army that has traversed the Alps and has now entered the Po valley. The Bavarian Household Army is set to keep a close watch on them, while a smaller Hungarian force has been lurking south of Austria for years now. Now, the latest addition seems to be a large English invasion force east of Hamburg. We don't have any negotiators in the north but the intent of their army will be revealed soon enough!
We have the war on all fronts, that we saw coming up the horizon at the last Election. I will promise to do my very best to defeat every would-be conqueror that comes to our lands, but our defenses are limited. Capable army commanders are few and far between. It will truly be a hard time ahead of us and to make it any easier on us, we need to get to the root of this.

Excommunication, gentlemen! Excommunication is the very reason every Catholic country has broken their bounds and are openly sheming against us and moving their troops through our territory. Pope Andreas is not willing to relent. I have offered him Florence, a rich city, that Duke Otto gave me as a tool to gain favour with the Pope. I fear that it will not reach more than a ceasefire, but I am reluctant to demand less than full reconciliation for this dire price the Duke of Bavaria has given for my safekeeping.

What will I do should the English attack? Well, what else should I do but crush them! Crush them with all our might! Already Gunther von Kastilien is returning West and Fredericus von Hamburg will be equipped with an army from Magdeburg large enough to deal with the English threat should their intention become hostile. That's what I will do.
But what are we to do in the future years to deal with the root of all this. That's what I ask of you mein Kaiser, what do you propose?

FactionHeir

04-01-2007, 23:08

I say we dispose of the current pope that had again denied us reconciliation even though we voted him into his seat. As the Holy Roman Empire, it is our right to, as the emperor surely will agree.

As for the English, I fear they may actually attack for why else should they bring such a vast host? Do we know who the army is led by and what troops they are fielding? Maybe our assassins near Dijon can be used against either the French or the English? And what of our spies that still need training? Our secret eyes and blades should not be kept loitering around taverns but used efficiently to improve the security of the empire, would you not agree?

Stuperman

04-01-2007, 23:28

I think a wait and see approach should be taken with the English, then share a large boarder with the Danes in the north, and could very well have eyes on Arthus instead of Hamburg.

Also I am confused as to the deployment of the Bavarian Army, it seems to be spread out between Genoa and Milan? this is for Garrisoning/town unrest issues?

FactionHeir

04-01-2007, 23:35

I doubt the English would have landed near Hamburg if they wanted to go after Arhus. They could have launched a much better surprise attack at Arhus if that was their target.

TevashSzat

04-02-2007, 00:53

I think we should be warry of the English's actions for they would surely take Hamburg if they attack. We should at least train some more garrisons to deter any potential attacks

Northnovas

04-02-2007, 03:27

The Elector stands the Diet is quieter with many members away their is concern amongst the remaining members faces with the Chancellor's latest report. The energy level has been low since the Crusaders ventured East and not even the capture of Venice had risen a voice....
Electors! We knew this time would come. This excommunication is like the plague and the rats of England have come to feast. Our diplomatic relations have been poor through out the continent and now they all are looking to strike. Our allies are few and far between and a great challenge lies before us.
What can we do but fight?!! Let the resources go where they will be needed most to defend the Reich with the Ducal Armies.
Death to our new and old enemies may the Lord have mercy on their vermin souls.
To victory and the Reich!!!!

GeneralHankerchief

04-02-2007, 03:33

Kaiser Heinrich:

Why, Leopold, I would do what I have always done. Counter-attack! Drive the English off our lands, and then, should we still be excommunicated, send a force of our own to the Isles, and sack London!

Force, repeated, unrelenting force, is the only way to deal with the people of Catholic Europe. It has been proven time and time again, but still they never learn.

Stuperman

04-02-2007, 03:39

Might I remind the Kaiser that Such an action woudl only be legal should the English attack first.

(OOC: looks like a discrepency between Charter and edict, Charter says he can attack, edict says no, DUN DUN DUUUNN!!!)

GeneralHankerchief

04-02-2007, 04:37

Kaiser Heinrich:

This is, of course, assuming that the English do attack us. If they simply miscalculated in their landing and proceed to Arhus or other Danish territory, then I see no problem with that.

(Or, of course, Duke von Saxony or his Steward, or even Leopold, could exercise their rights and declare war on England for occupying our territory. I believe that Article 3.3 of our Charter has been invoked recently.)

I would say that Charter wins out over Edict ten times out of ten.

OverKnight

04-02-2007, 04:49

A messenger arrives from Otto von Kassel:

Allow me to comment, since this is an area of the Charter with which I have some experience. The newly appointed Steward of Franconia or the Chancellor both have the authority to unilateraly declare war on a trespassing army. I would urge caution, however, we should reinforce the region and see the intentions of the English before we attack. If they are hostile they should be driven into the sea.

As for negotiations with the Pope. . .we could indeed. . .veto. . . this Pope as well, though I would view that as a last resort. We could then help elect another one who might be more sympathetic to our plight. Another option would be to trade Florence, and florins if needed, for just peace, I have no reservations about using Florence for this. If we have peace, reconciliation will occur one way or the other, perhaps as the Kaiser's last gift to the Reich.

I wish the Chancellor luck in the negotiations and in dealing with this new English threat.

Ituralde

04-02-2007, 09:34

I already told you, mein Kaiser, what I intend to do about the English threat!
My question was more concerned with our current state of excommunication and how you plan to deal with it. Otto von Kassels letter has provided me with the necessary means though. Interesting how he was better able to follow our discussion while being miles away.

Chancellor Leopold smirks and sits down again.

FactionHeir

04-02-2007, 10:20

While the new 'pope' has not laid siege to Rome yet, I wonder whether he intends to. Maybe it would be a good idea to keep the majority of the garrison with the emperor in the woods nearby while a skeleton garrison enough to keep order defnds Rome for a year? If that does not entice the 'pope', we may consider him friendly for the time being.

FactionHeir

04-02-2007, 13:15

What is that you say Chancellor? The garrison commander of Metz has become a turncoat and joined the French in the war against their own Roman brethren?
This cannot be allowed to stand!
I demand the execution of any man that sold his soul to the French vipers at this point and in future drafts. We must set an example on thbis rogue garrison and its populace so our other castles will think twice before selling their swords to the enemy of the empire!
Also, the garrison commander of Metz's corpse is to be publically displayed and his head to rest atop a pike when we retake the castle from the French

Ignoramus

04-02-2007, 13:25

Ulrich Hümmel stands up and turns his back on the Kaiser as he addresses the Diet.

"Mein electors, it is indeed a sad day when the former capital of our Count Sigismund I has sold itself to his murderers, the French. What could have caused this treachery? It appears that the Kasier no longer has the support of his subjects. Thanks to his recents actions against His Holiness, Pope Gregory, and his successors, we are now besieged on all sides by enemies.

The French, angry at the impertinance of Heinrich, barbarously slew Count Sigismund and menaced the lands of Swabia - mein lands!

The schwein Normans of England are now attempting to reunite the lands of the Saxons, who they butchered at Hastings, nearly a century ago.

The rebellious subjects of the King of Leon, the Portuguese, have defiantely defied our borders.

The Poles, although pushed eastwards, still drain the Reich of manpower and florins, through their mere presence.

And yet, the Kaiser, in his old age, continues to scheme about who should rightfully be Pope? He has made his intentions known of supporting not a man, but a woman! Should we, as true Christians, and guardians of the temporal realm, be subject to a Kaiser who flaunts with heresy?

Our Reich stands in great danger, and yet you have allowed the Kaiser to reign unchecked, and imperil the Reich futher. Was not his attack on Pope Accattus against our laws? Yet, not one man opposed him. For shame, mein electors, would we be ruled by a mad tyrannt? Away with this tyranny, and restore the Reich to proper rule!"

Ulrich Hümmel glares at the Kaiser as he resumes his seat.

GeneralHankerchief

04-02-2007, 14:15

Kaiser Heinrich:

I will ask you to hold your tongue, young Hummel, and learn your place in this Diet. Prinz Henry and I have done you a great service by allowing you to marry into royalty; as such, you will treat us with proper respect.

As for this Pope Andreas and his treachery, I will not die with my city under siege by this foul boggart! Leopold, have me sally immediately!

Ignoramus

04-03-2007, 10:26

Slightly shamefaced, Ulrich gets to his feet.

Mein Kaiser, I cannot but speak mein feelings. I cannot bear to see the Reich fall to pieces, simply because of who is Pope. While I understand your reaction to Gregory, I am most unhappy that you have not left his successors in peace. I would have thought that you would have attempted to make peace with His Holiness.

I fear that in your recent actions you have put yourself above the interests of the Reich. We are now facing many invasions by countless enemies, and none fear our name no longer.

I do apologise, mein Kaiser, for mein harsh words, as one of Swabian blood, you ought to be treated with respect.

I shall go and fight the French, as they cannot be allowed to wantonly plunder Swabian land.

As Ulrich resumes his seat, he summons a page to bring his cloak and saddle his horse.

FactionHeir

04-03-2007, 10:30

Elector V Swabia rises and speaks:

Hümmel, it is the popes who have not let our empire in peace. The emperor has not attacked the popes after Gregory before they attacked us by laying siege to Rome or attacking him on the roads.

GeneralHankerchief

04-03-2007, 16:31

Kaiser Heinrich:

Agreed. The successor Popes have actively sought to destroy me and seize our capital. I have simply treated them as any other foe we might face, because seemingly they have the same aim as any other foe, just slightly more influence.

Warluster

04-03-2007, 22:36

Count VOn Salza coughs, and it sounds like alughter, the people around him lean back slightly as he has very bad breath. Von Salza stands arms open wide

Why my firends, do we need these Other Popes,

Von Salza looks to the Kaiser

Sir, is the current Pope German? If he is, then curse him! If not, then I sya we dispose of them until we get a German Pope!

Von Salza looks back totthe Diet

Comrades, you may say we will be punished by the CHristian World, well put it this way, we already are! We've had countries storm in our Great Empire! I say enough, dispose of this Pope and have us rule the Christian world religously!

Jobst Von Salza sits, and takes a sip of what looks like beer

Warluster

04-04-2007, 10:50

The DIet enters a time of mourning, the Kaiser is dead!
He ruled greatly, and shall be remembered forever as a great leader of the Reich!

Rest in PEace Kaiser!

And of course with the passing of the old Kaiser, we have a new one. Kaiser Henry, I wish you and logn and glorious reign. Long live Kaiser Henry!

AussieGiant

04-04-2007, 22:03

The Kaiser is Dead!!

Long Live the Kaiser!!

As much as I disagreed with just about everything Kaiser Heinrich did, I must at least say at this time of sadness that he was an Emperor that stood by what he believed.

Now I would like to pledge my allegiance to the Reich and our New Kaiser Henry!!

Warluster

04-04-2007, 22:41

Von Salza looks around, and sees some empty chairs, but also most filled and he stands

Why the silence my friends? We have only had one elector give his views, I would like to hear what others have to say, your comments and rememberance, I know some of our number is on a Crusade, but we still have Electors here, we still have Counts,Generals, so speak up!

Prinz Von Salza sits

econ21

04-04-2007, 22:53

An Imperial courtier strides into the Diet, full of purpose and self-importance:

"Chancellor, Dukes, Counts and Electors! I bear a letter from your new Emperor:

Dear Electors,

It is with great sadness that I write to you at this time. My father, our Emperor, Heinrich has passed away peacefully. Our Empire mourns his loss.

It is no secret that I did not agree with everything my father did. And it is a source of great sadness to me that he should depart with us unreconciled. But history will record him as having made the first steps towards re-asserting the power and the predominance of our Empire after it fell so far during the Investiture Crisis. At our low point, we numbered only six provinces. Now, we have nineteen. I think those two numbers tell more about my father's achievements than any long-winded eulogy from me could do.

With my inaugaration as Emperor, there are a number of administrative matters that need to be clarified.

Firstly, with my absence on Crusade, there is the question of who will chair the Diet. I propose to create the office of a Diet Speaker who will keep order. He will speak and act only on procedural matters. Any substantive matters of policy or advice, I will convey only by letter to the Diet. I would ask you to accord the Diet Speaker the respect and authority befitting his post, just as you would to me if I were to Chair the Diet in person.

Secondly, it will be known to you already that my successor will be Jobst von Salza. It is an open secret that my father groomed the late Sigismund the Chivalrous to be the next inline after me. At the time, this choice puzzled some of us, just as some of my father's other decisions puzzled some of us. However, yet again, history bore out my father's judgement and showed Sigismund to be an exemplary figure. And here, I mean no disrespect to my brother, Duke Leopold or my own fine son, Hans. In turn, Sigismund adopted Jobst von Salza as his successor. Alas, Sigismund was too good for this world but we must honour his wishes and recognise Jobst von Salva as the new Prince and heir to the throne. Prince Jobst will deputise whenever the Diet Speaker is sick or otherwise unable to attend to his duties.

Thirdly, with my inauguration, the post of Duke of Swabia falls open. With some regret, I must leave my stead in Staufen and relocate my household in Rome. I have also thought of who should rule the Duchy of Swabia. I confess, Electors, that I believe combining the office of Duke and Prince may be to the detriment of both. Whoever holds both offices faces a conflict of interest - vigorously pursue the interests of Swabia or act with restraint so as to avoid facing enemies in other Houses when he becomes Emperor. Consequently, even though Prince Jobst is clearly the most qualified man for the post of Duke of Swabia, I have decided not to assign the title to him.

I have also considered passing on the title to my son, Hans, who has recently come of age. However, although Hans is a fine young man, he is still young and moreover is coming with me on crusade; his destiny, I believe lies in the Holy Land. Swabia, I feel, needs a man back home in the Empire to help defend her against the French invasion. Consequently, I look instead at my son in law, Ulrich von Hummel. As all Swabians know, Ulrich has worked behind the scenes for the Duchy, facillitating our private meetings. Some even say he is the reincarnation of Sigismund, although now in a darker, more dreadful and vengeful form. I recognise Ulrich is largely untested. Therefore, I am appointing him only the Steward of Swabia. Before he can be Duke, I task him with this duty - reclaim Metz from the French! If he can do this, and hold all Swabia's other territories, I will promote him from Steward to Duke. If he fails to do this by the next Diet, I may reconsider his position as Steward.

I hope that the Diet will understand and respect the above decisions, which I sincerely believe will be for the good of the Empire.

Yours

Henry

Stuperman

04-04-2007, 23:25

To the Late Kaiser Hienrish, and the new Kaiser Henery!

Takes a long drink of his beer

Mien fellow Electors I have contacted an especially quick messenger, and instructed him to meet with the Kaiser within the fortnight. I have given him the following message:

Honourable Kaiser Henery

It is with great pleasure that we the undersigned do swear total and unconditional allegiance to you and to follow your command for the good of the Riech. For the Glory of the Empire, Long Live the Kaiser!

Governor of Genoa, Commander of the Bavarian Household Army - Ritter Gerhard Steffen
The Honourable Second Elector of Austria
The Honourable Fifth Elector Of Austria.
The Honourable Third Elector of Austria

Gerhard walks to the middle of the Diet and places the letter for everyone.

Please feel free to sign your own name, he years of division in the diet MUST come to an end with the emergency of new enemies, and a new Milanese landing in the Italy.

(OOC: pm and I can add your name if you would like, unless there is a everyone-can-edit command)

TevashSzat

04-05-2007, 02:46

Although, I have not always agreed with the actions of the kaiser, I too mourn for his death and hope that Prinz Henry wil bring the empire into a new era of prosperity

AussieGiant

04-05-2007, 06:52

2nd Elector Austria stand and walks to the middle of the Diet Hall

I will gladly sign your declaration Sir Gerhard.

Looking around at the assembled gathering, he raises and eyebrow and say quite firmly.

I would suggest YOU ALL sign this to ensure there are no misunderstandings regarding the status of our new Kaiser.

Stepping away from the document

You should have seen what happened to those nobles who "forgot" to sign such a document in Moscow when a new Duke was appointed...it was not pleasant to say the least.

OverKnight

04-05-2007, 15:20

A messenger arrives from Otto:

Bavaria mourns the loss of Kaiser Heinrich. He was a man of indefatigable will and martial acumen. We shall not see his like again. Under his leadership the Reich saw unmatched growth and prosperity. Now it is up to the next generation to finish his work and bring the Empire back into the Church and our rightful place at the head of Christendom.

I join you in hailing the next Kaiser, Henry. May God bless his reign with glory and redemption.

Dutch_guy

04-05-2007, 22:15

* the steward of the Franconians rises *

I speak for all of the Franconian people when I declare we shall sorely miss Heinrich. He was a valuable asset to the Reich, and to its people - we should not forget him.

That said, congratulations to our former Prince. May you bring glory to our ever expanding nation, and may your reign last long.

* Günther bows and takes his seat once more*

:balloon2:

ArchdukeEvan

04-05-2007, 23:32

i will sign your declaration!

moves to sign the paper... does so...

May all the Diet know my alligance to the new Emperor!

Northnovas

04-06-2007, 03:47

The Third Elector Of Austria stands and looking rather tired from his ordeal in Vienna follows his other two house members walking to the table in the Diet and signs the document support Emperor Henry...

Emperor Heinrich will be sadly missed for his work to building this Empire. May he finally have his rest. Long live Emperor Henry and our Empire grow greater in glory!

Signs the document Third Elector of Austria

AussieGiant

04-06-2007, 05:26

Standing from his seat in the Austrian benches and gazing towards the other houses

So gentlemen, it seems the entire Austria delegation has pledged allegiance to the new Emperor. Do I sense some hesitancy on behalf of the rest of you that have not made comment or signed the declaration?

GeneralHankerchief

04-06-2007, 05:40

*A new face walks into the Diet with a flourish*

Conrad Salier:

I believe that the time has come to take an active position in Imperial matters. As such, before I can participate in this Diet, I must swear fealty to my Duke, Prinz, and Kaiser.

*Conrad signs the paper.*

However, I must address this new face that our new Kaiser has picked up on the way to Jerusalem. If the rumors are true then Kaiser Henry is traveling with a pagan magician! Most unbecoming of a Crusader, no?

But I overstep my bounds. Kaiser Henry, may your reign be long and prosperous. Whilst our late Kaiser Heinrich was something of a force of nature in this Diet, from what I've heard, he did have a tendency to stir things up a bit. I sincerely hope that he has found peace in the next life.

AussieGiant

04-07-2007, 16:08

Raising an amused expression to the new young arrival

Nice start Conrad. Do you deliver all your allegiance statements with qualifcation remarks like that?

Or are you just trying to get a reaction from everyone?

GeneralHankerchief

04-07-2007, 16:46

Stuperman

04-07-2007, 17:21

*A messenger arrives, out of breath, he places a hastily written not covered in blood and mud on the center table for all to see*

"Greetings from the other side of the Po!

I bring good new of Victory over the Hungarians! It was a glorious battle in which Conrad Salier Fought Bravely, even taking on Prince Jakab Himself! My official report will be avaiable shortly, for now here is the preliminary results:

http://i13.tinypic.com/2vtejcn.jpg

-Gerhard Steffen"

OverKnight

04-08-2007, 01:55

Gunther of Eichstadt clears his throat and reads a message from Otto:

News of Gerhard's crushing victory over the former Hungarian Crusader army has reached me. A magnificent triumph! As our own Crusade is about to leave the Reich and enter Magyar lands, I hope their humiliation will serve as a warning not to trouble us, lest they be destroyed. Though I am sure the Chancellor has his own plans about that with Budapest.

Gerhard and Conrad are to be commended. I am sure Salier has been knighted and as for Sir Steffen, I have an appropriate reward for him.

My lords, as Duke of Bavaria, I am proud to elevate Gerhard Steffen to the rank of Count. His County will be Genoa, a city he has done so much for in the past.

All hail Count Gerhard Steffen, lord of Genoa! I eagerly await your battle report.

The BHA stands ready to break the siege of Venice if needed.

OOC: Stuperman's avatar should have command of that battle, so he gets a bump he deserved in the last one.

AussieGiant

04-10-2007, 03:32

Conrad Salier:

Well, if it was my goal to get a reaction then obviously I have failed, as you are the first person to speak in the Diet since I signed the paper, which was 36 hours ago, more or less.

I was simply making my presence known in the Diet and accordingly delivered my opinions. I believe that you did this several times with our previous Kaiser, did you not?

Yes I believe you are correct Conrad. My time spent in the Russian courts has obviously made me find slights where they are not to be found.

My apologies good Sir.

My I also pass on my congratulations to Sir Steffan. That is truely an amazing victory.

Warluster

04-10-2007, 04:06

The Prinz stands

I congratulate Count Steffen and Ritter Conrad on their victories.

I see no reason to sign the document pledging my allegiance to the new Kaiser. As the Kaiser knows, I am already loyal to him, and have pledged my allegiance to him hundreds of times, so I will not sign the papers, but I encourage others if they feel disloyal to the new Kaiser.

And my fellow comrades, I ask for your opinion. The French are currently at Dijon, and I am to sally forth soon, but should we re-take Metz? Once Dijon is saved the Swabian Household Army might attack Metz, should we?

Prinz Von Salza sits

Warluster

04-10-2007, 22:11

Prince Jobst comes striding into the Imperial Diet, his trusted Knights bedside him

I bring excellent news from the lands of Burgundy and DIjon!

I have repelled the siege of Dijon, and sent the French crying back home, and we lost barely 100! The lands there are safe, and I prepare to ride to Metz!

Now if you will excuse me gentlemen...

The Prinz walks out, heading for a bathhouse

Ituralde

04-12-2007, 12:05

A messenger from the House of Austria arrives in the Diet, bearing a parchment written by Chancellor Leopold, which he reads out loud!

Nobles of the Reich, Dear Electors!

It is with much grief that I have recieved the news of Emperor Heinrich's death. He was my father and like a father he has cared for every one of his minions in the past. His shelter and protection are now lost for the Reich forever. While I have been one of the foremost critics of many of his actions, I always had the well-being of the Reich in mind as he did. I am convinced that the future will show us that the actions of Emperor Heinrich were wise and just and that he has done all a man can do and more to advance the Reich under his rule. He will always be remembered as one of our most successful Emperors. Anyone who follows after him will have a hard time filling out his foot steps.

He has left us with his eldest son and heir, my brother Henry, who although on his way to the Holy Land, has my full support as new Emperor! I pledge my allegiance to him and although he is many miles away from us, his thoughts and blessing is with us. Even from afar he will protect his people from our enemies and I will support him in his every decision! That the Reich may not falter while our Emperor himself undertakes one of the most important journeys this Reich has ever seen.

I pledge my allegiance to the new Emperor Henry and mourn for the passing of Emperor Heinrich.

Chancellor Leopold,
Duke of Austria

TevashSzat

04-12-2007, 14:52

Chancellor, I believe that your grief are a bit too late seeing as how the Kaiser has already been dead for some time now...

Ituralde

04-12-2007, 17:02

The messenger had intended to read his message and return, but the prompt and cheeky answer from one of the Electors made him change his mind.

You do realize that it takes some time to travel from Vienna to the Diet, considering that the way is beset by Hungarian, Milanese and Rebel forces. I brought this message here as fast as possible. It is still the same season our Emperor has died, that I arrived here and I proclaimed this message.
Also, it is never to late to grief for such an austere figure or have you already forgotten all his deeds that you feel the grief for him out of place?

Sniffing in exasparation he returns to the Austrian benches. Getting insulted by a man that didn't even bother to see who was proclaming the Chancellors message.

OverKnight

04-12-2007, 17:19

Gunther of Eichstadt rises and reads a message from Otto von Kassel:

Chancellor Leopold has expressed full support for the Crusade and for his brother Kaiser Henry. Yet I would ask why the Chancellor is stripping troops away from the Crusade to enlarge his own army?

Kaiser Henry's army 1170:

https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4212/1170ottota2.jpg

Kaiser Henry's army 1172:

https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3301/1172ottofx7.jpg

Chancellor Leopold's army 1172:

https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1126/1172leopoldxp3.jpg

The Chancellor has transferred 120 Teutonic Knights from the Crusade to his assault on Budapest, just as we are leaving the Reich. This has severely weakened the Kaiser's army at our moment of need! Do you think the Hungarians will allow us to march past Sofia without a fight?

I demand an explanation and the return of those knights!

Duke von Kassel

OverKnight

04-12-2007, 19:27

Gunther of Eichstadt can be seen receiving another message. He clears his throat and speaks with great reluctance:

Duke von Kassel officially requests an Emergency Session of the Diet to be called.

The Duke also withdraws his permission for Florence to be used in negotiations with the Papacy, until such time as all 120 Teutonic Knights are returned to the Crusade Armies.

I will spare the Diet the Duke's rather salty language. I will simply say that my lord regrets having to take these actions, but that he feels the Chancellor has not kept his promises, and therefore cannot be trusted.

OOC: The use of console commands is also an issue we must address if we do have a session.

AussieGiant

04-12-2007, 19:33

Rising slowly

Swabia, can I interest you in a belly dancer from the Steppes of Russia.

She's sure to addle your brain further.

I'll tell her to come to your quarters tonight as say...9pm?

Agreed?

Taking a seat the 2nd Elector of Austria write on a small parchment and hands it to a page while motioning in the direction of the 4th Elector of Swabia.

AussieGiant

04-12-2007, 19:37

Standing again

For god sake Gunther can't we have the Dukes resolve this without an emergency session? Surely there is an explanation.

What say you?

Is it handbags at noon using seconds as neither of the Dukes are here, or are we going to get drunk and solve this issue like men??

TinCow

04-13-2007, 00:18

*A nervous messenger walks in and unfurls a scroll. He looks immensely unhappy to have to read the message.*

From Former Chancellor Maximillian Mandorf, Crusader and Count of Bavaria, to the Imperial Diet:

This abduction of the holy and noble Teutons from the Crusade is nothing less than an open assault on the Crusaders and their goal of Holy Salvation. If the Chancellor does not immediately order the Teutons to return to the Crusade, I will be forced to call for the Impeachment of the Chancellor.

*The Messanger glances around warily and slinks to the back of the room.*

GeneralHankerchief

04-13-2007, 00:25

Conrad Salier:

This is, erm, unfortunate.

Chancellor Leopold's actions are quite lamentable and his motive is clouded. It seems as if he is deliberately harming the Crusade, which is a most unholy and dishonorable act.

However, that said, there is no provision in any of the edicts that states that the Crusaders will retain full control over their armies, or that they are to be treated as if they were House Armies. Therefore, the Chancellor has not technically violated an edict.

Perhaps, if an Emergency Session were to be called, it would serve better to reprimand him and place legislation in place that would prevent future occurances such as these rather than impeach him.

That said, I vehemently disagree with his acts, although it is on a personal level rather than a legal one.

Warluster

04-13-2007, 01:28

Jobst stands, wondering what to do, then smiles

There are two points here, both a agreeable.

An emergency session shall not be called, as for now it is not needed.

Yes, The CHancellor did pull out the Teutonic Knights, some of them, but not all. And I am sure his will was to send them back?

Of course, before we accuse or backstab, listen to what the Chancellor ahs to say, it could heal this wound. Duke Leopold shall stay CHancellor until the end of his term, ro if fate has other means for him.

Jobst sits down

Ituralde

04-13-2007, 12:45

An Austrian messenger arrives in the Diet, once more.

Nobles of the Reich, Dear Electors!

I bring word of my Duke, Chancellor Leopold.
The allegations made against his person are taken very serious by him. It was not his intention to deprive the Crusaders of any of their men. The mentioned Knights are already on their way to rejoin the Crusade as I speak here.
Chancellor Leopold will appear in front of this Diet once the siege of Budapest has been resolved. He will then listen to every charge brought against him and give an explanation for it that will be satisfactory for all factions concerned.
This has been a misunderstanding with grave consequences, but the Chancellor is more than willing to remedy it.

He salutes in front of the Assembly, before leaving the Diet again.

TinCow

04-13-2007, 13:07

*The Bavarian Messenger looks immensely relieved. His body noticably sags and for a moment it appears as if he is going to drop to the floor due to extreme fatigue. After a few moments he recovers himself and steps forward.*

My Lord will be most pleased to hear this news, Chancellor Leopold. *He pauses for a moment and looks at a pouch hanging from his waist.* There is... one final message from my Lord. I was instructed to convey this information to the Diet in relation to the Teutonic matter. Though the issue is now resolved, I suspect that he would wish me to convey the essence of the message regardless.

*He pulls out another scroll from the waist pouch, scans down halfway, and begins to read.*

Electors, I wish to remind you that Edict E1.1, which deals with the creation and conduct of the Crusade itself, specifically gives control of all strategic decisions to the Council of Crusaders. I suspect that some of you would argue that the disposition of the Teutonic Knights is not a strategic matter, but I firmly disagree with this line of thought. Even if the Knights themselves are beyond strategic control, surely depriving the trailing Crusade Army of its entire allocation of cavalry is a strategic matter.

*The Messenger looks up from reading.*

There is, of course, more, however it is no longer applicable to this situation. I suspect my Lord would wish me to encourage you all to remember Clause 4 of Edict E1.1 in all future decisions about the Crusade.

*The Bavarian Messenger turns and leaves the Diet at a brisk pace.*

AussieGiant

04-14-2007, 05:52

The 2nd Elector of Austria stands with a bland expression on his face

Excellent...

Pausing to look around at the assembled nobles and advisors

...I believe at this point all our constitutional lawyers are pleased with proceedings. We can now pay them a king’s ransom in fees and get back to governing this bloody realm.

Do I need a vote or further consultation from our battery of advisors on this, or can I take the silence as a resounding "Yes" from those of us present?

....no need to answer gentlemen it was a rhetorical question.

For those of you who are inclined I'll be holding a small party this evening to show off the "acts" I have brought with me from Russia. Prince Jobst, would you care to partake in the festivities? Some of these ladies are very educational...

OverKnight

04-15-2007, 23:55

Gunther rises to deliver a message from Otto:

My lords, I congratulate the Chancellor and Count Hans on the seizure of Budapest. It is a great victory and I hope it will serve to turn the attention of the Magyars to their own defense and from pointless expeditions into our lands. Even now a large Hungarian force has turned from the Reich and lingers outside their former capital. While I respect the Chancellor's zeal in pursuing the Venetians, I am afraid he will have his hands full before then.

Congratulations are also due to the Franconians, who have only added to their martial reputation with their victories in the north. I hope their attention will soon turn to Breslau. Once we have taken this settlement, I am sure it will put an end to these bothersome Polish raids on Frankfurt.

I have been informed that the Tuetonic Knights wrongly taken from the Crusade are on their way back to us, with reinforcements no less. While I am worried about their ability to cross the Hungarian plains safely, I am gladdened by their return. If the Chancellor wishes he may once again use Florence in negotiations with the Spanish Pope.

The Papacy vexes me. We offer them a great deal for peace and yet they refuse. I hope Conrad can finish the Milanese soon, so he can travel to Rome and secure the city. This Filippus the Warmonger might yet live up to his name.

Despite the Chancellor's best efforts, our negotiations have failed. I would ask the Diet how we should proceed. As I see it, there are two ways we can proceed to increase the chances of peace and reconciliation.

The first is the way of the sword. I believe Kaiser Heinrich wished this pursued more. We attempt to make peace with the current Pontiff, if he proves intransigent, we remove him and vote for a candidate who might be more receptive to us. There are no Imperial Cardinals among the Preferati, but if we vote for the Cardinal who does become Pope, it might serve. If the Pope we vote for is ungrateful for our support, we unfortunately might have to repeat the process. I have found this idea repugnant in the past and I do not propose it lightly, but it may bring about peace more quickly.

The second is the way of the Book. We recruit more priests into the Imperial service, build churches in the Reich and have our missionaries convert the heathens in far away lands. This will eventually improve our standing with the Pope and again we might have peace more quickly. A secondary benefit is that many of those new priests would prove useful on the Crusade.

Either option requires that we set aside a large amount of money to facilitate negotiations. The first option would most likely be quicker and cheaper, but it is much more distasteful than the second.

What is the opinion of the Diet? Any ideas to break this stalemate would be welcome.

Warluster

04-16-2007, 00:36

I see you have put a lot of thought into this.

Maybe we could do a mxture of both options? We could train heaps of priests, and we keep killing off popes, until ours is elected? But thats no gurantee that our Pope would reconcile us.

The way the Pope is acting now, I ahve to say I think he will not reconcile us for his own personal ways. He wants the Reich! I say kill him, before he does anymore damage!

Ituralde

04-16-2007, 11:19

Wearing a travel-worn somber gray coat, Chancellor Leopold enters the Chamber. Once he has paid visit to the Austrian benches and consulted with his scribes he turns around to face the assembled Electors

Dukes, Counts, Electors!

It is indeed a grave matter that I have been held responsible for by this Diet. Depriving the Crusade of their cavalry will seriously hamper them in their travels through the hostile Hungarian lands in front of them. I assure that I did all that was under my control to make sure that the Crusade is fully functioning.

You may wonder how this relates to the fact, that the Teutonic Knights are now trailing behind the main body of Crusaders. My brother Henry decided to leave his son Hans behind in Zagreb castle to finish his education and teach him matters of military and history that were not easily feasible on the road.
With Zagreb belonging to the House of Austria, I felt obliged to take care of Henry's eldest son personally and send him after the Crusade safely once he came of age. As instructed by our Emperor I send him off to join the Crusade and even gave him the support of 120 Teutonic Knights so that he could traverse the Croatian lands safely.

It was with shock that I realized that Hans was disobeying both the Emperors and my orders and was even somehow able to convince the Knights accompanying him to join in the folly. I was surprised to see him in my camp outside Budapest, when I expected him to have joined the Crusade already. Not wanting to deprive the Crusade of its cavalry I immediatelly sent the Teutonic Knights to return to the Crusade. Concerning Hans, he had disobeyed me once, and he revealed to me that he still has no intention to join the Crusade, so I kept him close to ensure that the Knights reach their destination. He was a help to me in the attack and took great part in the fall of Budapest and I am sure that many things I say would be clearer, if he were here to explain them.

Unfortunately, Hans has once again shown his disobedience and left Budapest in the night after its taking. I can only assume that he will now try to join the Crusaders.

As you can see, the allegations made against me are not correct, while I was present and even had contact with those Teutonic Knights, I took no willing part in abducting them from the Crusade. My plans were always to support the Crusade, but they were foiled by a young man, whose mind seems set.

Still I want to apologize to all factions involved for the inconvenience these actions have caused. Mabye I have become too lenient, as sometimes happens in an advanced age. I have reinforced the Teutonic Knights with Mailed Knights from Zagreb, doubling their numbers. Once they reach the Crusade the cavalry support should once again be guaranteed.

I hope this answers all questions this matter has caused and enable us to return to more important tasks, like the Papal matter just mentioned by Gunther von Eichstadt.

AussieGiant

04-17-2007, 13:04

From the Austrian benches shouts the 2nd elector

A more comprehensive and detailed answer you could not get my lords.

In fact I'm exhausted from just listening.

So that brings me to my next point. Drinks gentlemen, we need vodka after that episode!!

OverKnight

04-18-2007, 02:00

Gunther reads a message from Otto:

Sir Conrad Salier deserves the congratulations of Bavaria and the Reich on his victory over the Milanese. He sent the merchant scum sailing back to their windy castles on their pathetic islands. Without cities it seems they can't recruit their powerful militia infantry, a shame for them.

For Conrad's determination and bravery in facing such an oddly configured army, I name him Count of Milan. He has spent much time in the city and given who he won his victory over, I think it is appropriate. Let the Milanese chew on that in exile.

I hail Count Salier, may this be the first of many victories!

Stuperman

04-18-2007, 02:45

Congradulations Indeed Count Conrad Salier! It takes an adept general to adapt to such varied armies.

For the Glory of the Riech and Bavaria!

econ21

04-18-2007, 23:55

A messenger reads a short note from the Kaiser:

Electors,

As my brother's term of office winds down, I would like to give notice that at the next Diet I will not exercise my perogative to be Chancellor. Therefore, there will be an election for the post as usual. I tell you this now so that potential candidates will not be taken by surprise and will have plenty of time to prepare.

I am most satisfied with the excellent work my brother Leopold has done in defending the Reich. However, the progress of the crusade, while smooth, has been rather slow. I anticipate that we will still be marching to Jerusalem throughout the next Chancellorship. I believe I will be more able to make my mark as Chancellor after we have taken Jerusalem. In the interim, I trust to the wisdom of the Council of Crusaders to shepherd us onwards to our destination and the wisdom of you, my good Electors, to elect a suitable successor to Duke Leopold as Chancellor.

Kaiser Henry

AussieGiant

04-19-2007, 11:33

Congratulations Count Salier. Your conduct has earned you your rank.

OverKnight

04-19-2007, 11:51

A message arrives from Otto:

News has reached me that Pope Filippus has recruited a company of mercenary crossbowmen. This is discouraging news as we might be forced into another confrontation. I would ask the Electors to think about what I wrote earlier.

The duty of defending Rome has fallen to Bavaria, but it is the capital of the Reich. We all must seek to find a way to safeguard the eternal city and secure peace and reconciliation for the Reich.

TevashSzat

04-19-2007, 19:51

The popes have never been military geniuses and never will and seeing as he has yet to have found a city to call home, he will most likely not be any big problem.

Warluster

04-20-2007, 07:36

True, but all humans are diffrent, we might have an odd one.

I say deal with this Pope immediatly, he will never pursue Paceful terms so pu t a end to him and his army!

Ignoramus

04-20-2007, 09:14

Ulrich Hümmel enters the Diet, his mail splattered with blood.

Mein electors, we have crushed those treacherous men of Lorraine. They fought feebly at best, and I had no scruples in butchering them. I trust that the "example" I made of those schwein will discourage future acts of treason against the Kaiser and the Reich!

Ulrich exits to change into more suitable attire.

Warluster

04-20-2007, 09:20

The Prinz stands

Excellent! Excellent! This is indeed Great news Steward Hummel! I congratulate you on this victory!

So with the siege of Metz over, Dijon calming down and the French hiding around Rheims, possibly Sabia could mount a attack on Rheims?

Think of it,

Ulrich could advance from Metz, taking a large new force with him. This force shall be the siege force. Then I shall come from a more southerly path and clear the way for Ulrich, then the two armies hsall join, and we can attack Rheims? This would give The Reich a foothold in France, and a more disguised road to England!

econ21

04-20-2007, 09:24

Diet Speaker: In accordance with the Kaiser's earlier pledge, I am authorised to announce that Steward Ulrich Hummel is now appointed Duke of Swabia. May God grant him wisdom and aid in defending our western borders from the French!

Metz is now returned to Swabia. The allocation of Venice and Budapest will be made at the next full Diet session.

TinCow

04-20-2007, 12:09

*A Bavarian clerk steps forward.*

I would like to remind Prinz von Salza that Edict E1.7 prevents the Reich from taking any French city other than Marseille. Indeed, given the current status of the Reich, we are prevented from taking any cities other than Breslau, Marseille, and a single territory from any nation which has declared war on us since that time. For now, that would allow for a single English territory only, as a Hungarian territory has already been taken.

Ignoramus

04-20-2007, 13:49

Duke Ulrich returns to the Diet after changing into more suitable attire. He walks over to the front of the Swabian quarter and takes his seat as Duke.

After thanking the Kaiser for his appointment as Duke of Swabia, Ulrich stands up and addresses the Chancellor.

Duke Leopold, may I commend you on the fine handling of the Reich that you have displayed. Though, I confess, I am concerned about the western frontier. The French currently have a citadel in Toulouse, and Fortresses in Angers and Bordeaux. I fear that with only Staufen to provide soliders for Swabia we shall be stretched by the French. And let us not forget that they do not fight honourably, man to man, but they bribe, they murder, they hate.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.

econ21

04-22-2007, 15:13

Diet Speaker: Now that Chancellor Leopold has submitted his final report, I am opening the Diet for the proposal of Edicts and for candidates for the post of Chancellor. The deadline for edicts and manifestoes is 9pm (UK time) Wednesday.

I would encourage candidates to declare early, so that they may shape policy and be open to questions.

econ21

04-22-2007, 16:52

Diet Speaker: I have received the following communication from the Kaiser:

I am happy to assign Venice and Budapest to the House of Austria.

I understand there was an agreement between my father and my brother Leopold that Venice would become part of Austria. I am pleased to honour this agreement. However regardless of that undertaking, I would anyway assign Venice to Austria as a reward for Duke Leopold's fine leadership of the Reich as Chancellor. I know he has long been interested in Italian politics and am happy to indulge that interest.

In the case of Budapest, I believe this was taken by the Austrian Household army and anyway, given its location, in future, it would most rationally be defended by that army.

Once again, I thank Duke Leopold for his service and hope his successor will be able to match his achievements.

GeneralHankerchief

04-22-2007, 17:49

Conrad Salier:

I congratulate Duke Leopold on an excellent term. God has seen fit to smile upon his Chancellorship. While we still remain excommunicated, the Reich is vigilant. The Lord has not seen fit to make us weak, and that, my friends, is a very good sign.

TevashSzat

04-22-2007, 19:43

I would like to propose:

Edict 7.1: More priests shall accompany the crusaders in order to convert the heathens in the aftermath of the crusade

After we have retook what is ours in the Holy Lands, the population will no doubt be restless and may try to revolt forcing us to station more troops within the cities. In order to counter this, more priests than the two with the crusaders shall be sent, preferably by ship if possible for faster arrival.

OverKnight

04-22-2007, 22:26

Gunther stands to read a message from Otto von Kassel:

My lords, let me first thank Duke Leopold for his fine service to the Reich as Chancellor. He has seen us through difficult times, and the Reich is stronger because of him. The Crusade has reached Anatolia and is poised to enter heathen lands, and on the home front we have destroyed incursions into our lands and taken Budapest. Yet, there are still many challenges we must face, both for the those in the Reich and on Crusade.

With this in mind, I announce my candidacy for Chancellor.

Some would say that a Crusader should not be Chancellor. I say with an efficient messenger system and the relative autonomy of the Household Armies that I can be an effective Chancellor. If a Chancellor in the Reich can coordinate the Crusade, than a Chancellor on Crusade can coordinate the Reich. It is not ideal, but only God knows perfection. (OOC: Realistically, we would have separate executives for both, but that was nixed because of speed of play issues.)

My goals in office would be:

First, we must have peace and reconciliation with the Papacy. This will be difficult and I refer you to my letter to the Diet on the matter.

Despite the Chancellor's best efforts, our negotiations have failed. I would ask the Diet how we should proceed. As I see it, there are two ways we can proceed to increase the chances of peace and reconciliation.

The first is the way of the sword. I believe Kaiser Heinrich wished this pursued more. We attempt to make peace with the current Pontiff, if he proves intransigent, we remove him and vote for a candidate who might be more receptive to us. There are no Imperial Cardinals among the Preferati, but if we vote for the Cardinal who does become Pope, it might serve. If the Pope we vote for is ungrateful for our support, we unfortunately might have to repeat the process. I have found this idea repugnant in the past and I do not propose it lightly, but it may bring about peace more quickly.

The second is the way of the Book. We recruit more priests into the Imperial service, build churches in the Reich and have our missionaries convert the heathens in far away lands. This will eventually improve our standing with the Pope and again we might have peace more quickly. A secondary benefit is that many of those new priests would prove useful on the Crusade.

Either option requires that we set aside a large amount of money to facilitate negotiations. The first option would most likely be quicker and cheaper, but it is much more distasteful than the second.

I would not pursue the carrot or stick approach without a clear mandate from the Diet, and I would encourage the Electors to give me one on this issue. But with the current Pope, I fear we will not achieve peace for a long time. Whatever path is chosen I intend to recruit more priests, using the new Theologian's Guild in Budapest. We could use more missionaries and a greater Imperial presence in the College of Cardinals. I believe the Fourth Elector of Swabia has already spoken on this matter.

My second goal is to safely get the Crusade to the Holy Land.

My third goal is economic expansion. There may be limits on our territorial conquests, but we should take advantage of our merchant guilds to train agents so they can trade goods and acquire monopolies. With a small initial investment, this will fill our coffers. We will need money for peace with the Pope and war with the infidel.

My fourth goal is to rebuild the Imperial Navy in the Mediterranean and Baltic. We are vulnerable to blockade and ship borne invasions without it.

My fifth goal would be to maintain good relations with our remaining allies and neighboring neutral factions. This might require a small annuity.

My sixth goal is to stabilize the frontiers of the Reich. As repeated incursions against Frankfurt and Venice have shown, we must have a defensible border. I shall accomplish this by taking Breslau and Marseille. I would also ask that Ragusa be added to the list of allowable conquests. That Venetian territory is like a dagger aimed at the heart of the Reich, it has been the source of many attacks on Venice and Zagreb. By seizing it, we will be able to shorten the borders of the Empire and have a port closer to the Holy Land than any other we now have.

I ask for your support my fellow Electors. Together we can bring the Reich to redemption and glory. Together we can smite the infidel and bring the Cross to Jerusalem. Together we can triumph!

Edit: I will second Edict 7.1

OverKnight

04-23-2007, 02:27

Gunther looks around at the disturbingly quiet chamber of the Diet and coughs politely. He rises and speaks:

My lords, Duke von Kassel instructed me to propose the following edict if no one else would. He realizes it may not be popular, but it is needed to gauge the support of the Diet for the "way of the sword" he spoke of earlier. My lord has promised to follow the will of the Diet on this matter.

Edict 7.2: If peace talks fail with the Papacy after a good faith negotiation is made (Florence and at least 5,000 florins are offered) the Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Papal army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff. The Chancellor is authorized to repeat this process as needed, but if a HRE Cardinal becomes Pope, this edict would cease to be in effect.

I have been instructed to listen to any modifications that might be proposed by the Electors and pass them on to my master for consideration. The Duke wishes that a consensus emerge from the Diet about this matter. "The way of the Book" is less controversial, and he feels an edict is not needed for it.

GeneralHankerchief

04-23-2007, 02:57

Conrad Salier:

First of all, I strongly support Duke Otto's candidacy.

Now, however, I direct everyone's attention to the comment he made about the carrot and the stick.

Gentlemen, this Papal situation has been hanging over all of our heads for too long now. We have tried to deal with it many different times with many different approaches, but none have worked. Unfortunately, despite the best of all of our efforts, we are seen by the majority of Catholic Europe as just as heretical as the heathens whom our Crusade on Jerusalem is currently directed at.

Dealing with this problem in moderation has failed. Many times Kaiser Heinrich deposed of the current, unfriendly Pope in hopes that the new one elected would be more sympathetic. It has not worked. Likewise, on the other side of the spectrum, Duke Leopold has attempted to end things with Florence and a small sum of money. This too has not worked.

It is clear to me that moderation is not the answer here. This crisis will have to be dealt with radically, with an option so polar that it would not have even been considered years ago, aside from our darkest dreams.

The question is, do we solve this problem with the juciest of carrots, or the hardest of sticks?

The juciest of carrots, of course, would be to give in. Admit that we did a very bad thing and beg to be reconciled. Give whatever is necessary. While some of us in this Diet may condemn me for the appearance of cowardice, you cannot argue with the results. And consider the alternative.

If we decide to go with the hardest of sticks option, we will have no choice but to systematically kill each and every Cardinal in the College that is not of Imperial stock.

Obviously, this has both spiritual and physical consequences. It would work, certainly. But would we ever forgive ourselves for the act? Do the ends truly justify the means in this situation? What would the Lord think of us when we embark on this Crusade to redeem ourselves, and at the same time, at home, slaughter those who have devoted their lives to the cloth? And, to be more practical, would we find anyone to carry out this terrible task? I, for one, would not. As I hope, none of you would.

My friends, those are the only two choices if reconciliation is to be pursued. Do not kid yourself. You know it to be true in the deepest part of your hearts. And one of those two is an abomination, a terrible deed akin to the betrayal of Christ.

So really, we only have one option left. And it is not the Way of the Sword as Duke Otto proposed.

Edict 7.3: The Chancellor is authorized to use any means, amount of florins, or land necessary to obtain reconciliation with the Papacy, so long as it is not prohibited in any way by the Charter.

It may hurt, yes. But it is the only way.

Northnovas

04-23-2007, 03:56

The newly appointed Count of Zagreb stands to address the quiet chamber...

Electors, Conrad Salier's words are too true. I will second Edict 7.3 the time as come to heal these wounds and pay the cost to right our path with the Papacy for the people of the Empire.
Let us obtain peace with the Pope and concentrate our fight with the enemies of the Empire trying to take our lands and for the Crusaders doing God's glory fighting in an inhospitable land.

Ignoramus

04-23-2007, 04:10

Duke Ulrich Hummel rises to speak.

Mein electors, though I am but recently made the Duke of Swabia, I humbly put myself forward to you as a contender for Chancellor.

Everywhere the Reich faces enemies. The Kingdom of France is powerful enough to mount a serious challenge in the west. Their citadel in Toulouse trains and equips braver knights than we can ever dream of calling the Reich's.

The Milanese still maintain castles on the islands of Corsica and Sardinia, and their constant raids on the Tuscan coast are creating instabilty amongst our Italian possessions.

The Kingdom of England still retains the fief of Normandy, and has recently seized the land of Norway, from which they launch their raids to the north of the Reich.

In the east, the Kingdoms of Hungary and Poland, although checked, are still menacing.

In these troubled times, a strong leader is needed. Though I doubt not Duke Otto's bravery, or his piety for taking up the cross, he is going on Crusade. Such a journey is filled with dangers, both from battle and from starvation. Should Duke Otto perish while in the Levant, what would become of the Reich?

I would first of all consolidate our borders. I would begin constructing forts to hold mountain passes and river crossing to prevent rebels and enemy armies rampaging through the heart of the Reich.

Secondly, I would attempt to appease the Pope and give him a distant island such as Crete, Rhodes, or Cyprus. Over there, he can do but little harm, and it will save us from having to maintain a heavy garrison in Rome.

During mein rule, the frontiers would be consolidated, the rebels defeated, and united Reich ready to crush any opposition.

War, however, would not be negelected during mein term. I would launch major invasions against the Kingdoms of France and Poland, and I would also seek to reduce the islands of Corsica and Sardinia.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.

GeneralHankerchief

04-23-2007, 04:17

Conrad Salier:

Duke Hummel, I have no doubt that you would indeed make a capable leader of the Reich. However, I have but one question:

I would launch major invasions against the Kingdoms of France and Poland

Current Edicts prevent this sort of thing from happening. It was made clear in the Emergency Diet Session of 1154 that we were to go on the defensive for the duration of the Crusade. Yet, you propose to "launch major invasions" of two of our greatest enemies, the Poles and the French.

Assuming that you manage to revise the Edicts and win the election, how would you fund these sustained invasions and still manage to reconcile with the Pope using appeasment?

Ignoramus

04-23-2007, 04:32

Duke Hummel rises and turns to Conrad Salier.

You raise gut points, mein elector.

The invasion of France would indeed require an edict. However, I trust that the electors would see what a threat the French present. Taking only Marseilles, which rightfully belongs to us anyway, will not hinder them whatsoever. Already they have fortresses in Angers and Bordeaux and a citadel in Toulouse. Staufen, however, is the only fortress the Reich has near the western border.

Funding the invasions would be simple. The Ducal army of Franconia is well-equiped to march on Krakow. As to France, the Ducal army of Swabia is experienced enough to fight on level terms with the French. Of course, once a few enemy towns have been sacked, and the populace robbed, there should be no problem in funding the invasions.

I also intend to strengthen the Ducal armies by merging smaller forces into them, thus allowing them sufficient men to deal with any threat.

Duke Ulrich bows, and walks towards the Swabian chambers.

OverKnight

04-23-2007, 04:45

Gunther furrows his brow and speaks:

Speaking for my master I welcome you to the race Duke Hummel.

So the French are a major threat because of their castles, but we can invade them because we are a match for them with our current forces? I am confused Duke Hummel. Are we weaker or stronger than them? If we are stronger than why is this needed?

A defensive posture was voted for by this august body for a reason. True, my Duke supports the taking of Ragusa, but this would shorten our borders, not stretch them out as the Duke of Swabia would have us do.

Would you abandon the Crusade so quickly my lord? By your words you support it, but your actions would forsake it.

Stuperman

04-23-2007, 04:56

Gerhard Steffen:

I balk at the Idea that massive campaigns be undertaken againts other CHRISTIAN NATIONS whilst a majority of our Most Capable generals are away fighting infidels for our salvation. Surely such warlike actions would eventually be the undoing of the HRE!

Gerhard, visably upset searches for a beer and heads outside for some air

Warluster

04-23-2007, 07:53

The Prinz stands

I fully support your run for Chancellor... Duke Ulrich.

And now to other matters.

Listen to yuorselves, you sound like hired whiners! 'Could be the undoing of the HRE' that is somethign which will happen eventually. All great Empires have to fall eventually!

I say we attack now and get the lands which we need to support oursleves, why is these comments Count Steffen of our most capable generals away? Yes most our, but it is about time we got more great generals! Don't rely on your superiors, don't think you are bad compared to them, as one day you will have to stand in the spotlight of the Reich!

So I say crack 'em now and get out the yoke, then let it dry!

Prinz Jobst sits, shakign his head

OverKnight

04-23-2007, 08:27

A messenger rushes into the Diet and hands Gunther a letter. After reviewing the contents, Gunther reads the contents to the Diet:

Electors, I have spent much time trying to figure a way out of our current Papal Impasse.

The Empire has great influence in the College of Cardinals with three votes, but the other powers of Europe have shown they will not vote for an Imperial candidate. The late Kaiser Heinrich's plan is flawed and will not work without a great deal of bloodshed.

Yet for those calling for negotiations with the current Pope, I would remind you that Chancellor Leopold has already tried the same approach. Even if we gave them all our florins and a few territories, I doubt Filippus would agree to peace. The price might be so high, we would be unable, even if willing, to pay it.

Yet, there might be a third way, something we haven't tried yet. We have one remaining ally in the Catholic Realms, Sicily. We have stood by each other resolutely through the years. If the opportunity comes, why not vote for a Sicilian Cardinal as Pope?

At best we will be reconciled, at worst we will have greatly improved our standing with a new Pope.

A Sicilian Cardinal, Niccolo Amocacci, currently stands 6th in the College. He is a missionary near Tunis. I'm sure his work makes him a rising star in the Church. We could have the opportunity to elevate him, the time it takes would depend on the approach the Diet adopts toward the current Pope. Still he is 53, so we can't wait too long.

This is not a vague promise or a rhetorical smoke screen, I offer a new way to gain peace and reconciliation for the Reich, I ask that you let me achieve it.

Ituralde

04-23-2007, 10:02

Dukes of the Reich, Counts and Electors

He dips a small bow toward Jobst

Mein Prince,

Should no other candidates for Chancellor step forward and declare their intentions, I will support Duke Otto von Kassel in the upcoming election.
His proposals meet well with my own intentions for the Empire and would be a successful continuation of my politics.

Many here have rightfully made out the biggest challenge that the next Chancellor will face: Reconciliation or at least peace with the Papacy. It is a must that this is adressed and considered thoroughly by this Diet. It seems through my previous experiences with the Papacy that diplomatic negotaions are doomed to fail. Which would lead to war being the only option we have. I have to agree with Conrad Salier though that this atrocity should not be continued in the future. We can not have peace by alienating every Christian in the world, by slaying their mortal representatives.

We have to figure out a way out of this misery and I don't believe in any of the solutions proposed here so far. Aside from the long time goal to train and educate more Priests. I will gladly offer the new Theologians Guild in Budapest for the training of our men of faith.
We can not give everything we have to the Pope as Edict 7.3 asks. I have talked to Pope Fillipus and there is no appeasing him. For him I would believe the process masked out in Edict 7.2 to be appropriate. I would second this Edict if it were ammended to only deal with Pope Fillipus.
If the Papacy had its will we would be loosing half of Italy, before they would consider peace, and that will still not reconcile us. The thought of a Papacy, strenghtened with our lands, standing at the head of a Christian alliance against us, makes me shudder. We can not blindly offer the Pope what he wants.

I once again like to put the topic of Rome on the table. I have said in the last Diet that it was unrightfully taken from the Papacy and I for one would not be opposed to giving it back to them. Maybe this would appease them more than any other city we could offer them. I knew the stance of my father Emperor Heinrich, but I don't yet know the stance of my brother Emperor Henry on this matter.

My support for Duke von Kassel not only stems from our identical political agendas, but I also wish to prevent Ulrich Hümmel from ascending to the post of Chancellor. I respect him as a man and as a capable general and Duke of Swabia, but his proposals are ludicrous.

Believe me gentlemen, I have defended our border for the last years now and we are thin stretched. If there had been but one more attack, just one more decisive move by our enemies much would have been lost. It was nothing but luck that saved us, when the Portugese retreated after Frankfurt and Magdeburg stood open to their conquest. It was luck when the French retreated half-way from Genoa, which would have left the choice to defend two out of the three following, Genoa, Rome or Venice. It was luck that the Venetians diverted their war efforts south against the Byzantines instead of taking Zagreb, or the Hungarians calling off the siege of Vienna.
The next Chancellor will have to face as much hardships as I faced or more and we can not count on luck to defend our people. We need a solid defense. We can't have our armies running off into enemy territories to leave our heartland undefended. Already our armies have to cover two to three settlements, which rely on them for their defense. If we blindly add more settlements this task would become nigh impossible.
As a last thought, I would like to ask Ulrich Hümmel which army is supposed to attack France? The Swabian Household Army is holed up in Dijon hardly able to control its populace. We should deal with our internal problems first, before casting eager glances to the lands of our neighbours, which we can not hold on to.

The only expansion we should pursue are strategic consolidations that were mentioned by Duke von Kassel. Breslau and Marseille are a top priority and Ragusa is also worth considering. Every other expansion can not be undertaken and should not be undertaken!

OverKnight

04-23-2007, 10:09

Gunther stands and bows to Duke Leopold:

My master would thank you for your support. I think it is within the instructions he gave me to change the wording of the Edict:

Edict 7.2: If peace talks fail with Pope Filippus after a good faith negotiation is made (Florence and at least 5,000 florins are offered), the Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Papal army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff.

I hope this serves as a compromise.

Ituralde

04-23-2007, 10:19

I second Edict 7.2.

FactionHeir

04-23-2007, 10:32

*A shady creature attempts to enter the diet but is held back by the guards outside. After a long exchange of words, he is finally let in.*

Great nobles, the Count of Bern has given me instructions to deliver in accordance to his plans....he supports the disposal of the warmongering pope and any others that follow if they are not reasonable. If an edict as such as not been proposed, he erm.. wishes to announce a new one or call for amendment of a current one to read *reads off a scroll*
"The Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Filippus' army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff. If that one is as unreasonable as the previous one, refusing to reconcile us in diplomacy, he shall be disposed of as well, until a German pope is elected."

He will also support anyone standing for chancellor that shares his views on that matter and that there should be some, but limited expansion to the extent of the empire. *looks around* I'm not sure who that would be, but that's what he said...

Now err he mentioned I would be paid for my services by the steward of Swabia....?

OOC: Hans has traits Cheapskate and Miserly :D

Ignoramus

04-23-2007, 11:56

Duke Ulrich rises with annoyance clearly written on his face.

Duke of Austria, whether by accident or by design, you appear to have forgotten that I am one of the four Dukes of the Reich now, and as such am entitled to be called so.

As to your concerns about our borders, I can explain easily how they can be fixed.

If we continue to stand on the defensive we will be defeated. For years the frontier has not been shifted west. Even the murder of Sigismund der Stolze, the bastion of Chivalry, went unavenged. Not one French town or castle has been taken to avenge him. And you talk of defence? I would have thought you held more respect for one such Sigismund.

We must invade France if we are to maintain our current frontiers. Until we sack Paris, and cripple Toulouse, we shall be unsuccessful.

I am ashamed that I must continually lose men for no purpose. The Swabians are sick and tired of dying without having a chance to take the fight to the enemy.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.

OverKnight

04-23-2007, 12:29

Gunther rises and coughs politely:

It seems the Reich has done well under Chancellor Leopold's defensive reign. The one blow was the loss of Metz. . .

Tell me, Duke Hummel, did you show respect to the memory of Sigismund when you took his old city and exterminated his former subjects?

Perhaps you wished them to join him in Heaven?

I wonder what he would have thought of your actions, and of you using his name to forward your own ideas.

Ignoramus

04-23-2007, 12:36

Duke Ulrich, clearly annoyed, rises.

Duke Otto, what I did, I did first of all to mein Kaiser. Lorraine had cast him aside and instead accepted French yoke. Secondly, as Steward of Swabia, I cannot have mein subjects revolts go unpunished. Finally, it was out of respect to Sigismund that I butchered them. They had sold themselves to Sigismund's murders, and there is no greater shame or dishonour that could fall upon them than that.

Even Duke Leopold himself acknowledge that the preservation of many parts of the Reich was due to fortune, not his administration. If we do not go forward and conquer now we will fall.

Duke Ulrich returns to his seat.

TinCow

04-23-2007, 14:59

*A Bavarian messenger stands up, unrolls a scrap of parchment, and clears his throat.*

Electors, it is with some consternation that I have received word of recent debates in this Diet. I fully agree with those who have said that we must seek peace with the Papacy at all costs. Our continuing excommunication is becoming the ruin of the Reich. Many of our cities are restless, with some only remaining in civil order due to the allocation of large garrisons. We our surrounded by Catholic enemies who will likely never consider peace with us until we are reconciled with the Pope. As such, I firmly support Edict 7.3 and thank my son for wisely proposing such righteous legislation. I also second Edict 7.1, another worthy piece of Godly legislation.

However, I will not support Edict 7.2 and I urge others to vote against it. We speak of restraining our hand from further violence against our Catholic brothers, yet at the same time this Diet proposes to slay yet another Pope? When will this madness end, Electors? Do you not realize that acts such as these are further damning us in the eyes of God and men alike? We must pay the price for Kaiser Heinrich's sins and defend ourselves as best we can until peace can be achieved. Spilling more Catholic blood is not the way!

If we must pay 20,000 florins a year to receive peace, I will support such a decision, even if it were to bankrupt us. We must see to the salvation of our souls before all other considerations. Peace with the Pope is paramount and must be achieved at all costs. Only when that is accomplished can we justly prosecute offensive war against our enemies.

I support Duke von Kassel for the Chancellorship, as I heavily disapprove of Duke Hümmel's plans for further warfare and Catholic bloodshed. However, I urge Duke von Kassel to renounce his support for further Papal slayings. We have embarked on a Crusade to repent for the sin of just one Papal death. Surely we shall never be able to wipe away the stain of a dozen such deaths. True penance is costly and humbling. The entire Reich must accept that a heavy price must be paid immediately and without condition to return ourselves to membership of Christ's Church.

econ21

04-24-2007, 00:13

Diet Speaker: A list of the Edicts proposed to date is posted in the entrance to the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1461425&postcount=1

GeneralHankerchief

04-24-2007, 00:50

Conrad Salier:

Duke Hummel, I believe that your disagreements with the Diet about making war comes down to one simple fact: We are tired of war. You still want it, for whatever reason.

The Heinrichian Doctrine of expansion and counter-attack has had its uses, certainly. However, it is not without its side-effects. Look at where we stand, my friends. The Holy Roman Empire has become a war machine to the point where the income gained from conquering has eclipsed all others. It feeds on the conquest of lands, but this feeding has made it ever hungrier. So it constantly requires more lands, more armies, to whet its ever-growing appetite.

It is time to break this vicious cycle. If we do not find some other means of sustaining ourselves. For if we do not, our interior will crumble while our armies are far off on the frontier. You do not grasp this, Duke Hummel.

Ignoramus

04-24-2007, 01:36

Duke Ulrich after consultation with some Swabian electors stands up and addresses the Diet.

Mein electors, I shall put forward mein personal edict.

Charter Ammendment 7.1: The Dukes shall have power to dictate to whom their professional soldiers shall go. This does not apply to Peasants, Town Militia, Spear Militia, Sergeant Spearmen, Armoured Sergeants, Mounted Sergeants, Mailed Knights, Peasant Archers, Peasant Crossbowmen, or Ballistas.

Duke Ulrich bows and resumes his seat.

FactionHeir

04-24-2007, 09:40

*One of the clerks hands the messenger a letter which he quickly reads through before rising to speak*

Noble men, my master commands me to inform you, that he expresses his support for edict 7.2.

*and walking over to Hümmel*
And I still need my payment...

OverKnight

04-24-2007, 09:53

Gunther motions over Count Hans's "messenger" and discreetly gives him a few florins. He then turns to the Diet and speaks:

My lords, with this Diet session half over by my estimation, we have yet to hear from many of the Electors on the issues and candidates under consideration.

While I am sure the Second Elector of Austria, and the scribes, are relieved at the low number of Edicts, I do find it a bit worrisome. Proposals that arrive late in the session tend to receive scant notice. I hope the Electors will keep this in mind.

Stuperman

04-24-2007, 20:38

I second edic 7.2.

Northnovas

04-24-2007, 21:15

The Count of Zagreb stands and proceeds to the podium with document in hand...

My fellow electors I would like to propose the following personal Edict to the Diet. I submit the following,

Edict 7.4
The Chancellor is instructed to build up the Imperial Navy as follows:
Three fleets are to be recruited and manned for our three naval areas. Baltic Sea, Mediterranean Sea and Adriatic Sea.
Each fleet is to contain at least five Holks, our most advanced ship type to date.
The fleets will be stationed in the corresponding seas and serve to secure naval supremacy.

Electors, in this Edict I am encouraging the rebuilding of our naval power. These fleets will assist with the defence of our Northern Shores while the Mediterranean and Adriatic can defend the Southern Shores and assists with expeditions such as the Crusaders in the Holy Land.
While we encourage the Chancellor to build up the fleets this does not tie the hands of the Duke’s responsible for the upgrading of the port facilities in their respective port cities to prevent the fleets from going obsolete.

The Count hands the Edict to the clerk for record and returns to his seat.

Ituralde

04-24-2007, 21:48

I second Edict 7.4 as my scribes inform me it should be counted. I urge you to support this notion. I have found it to be a major hindrance during my last Chancellorship that our navies were close to nonexistant. We need to reestablish our naval supremacy and at the least be able to defend our ports and waters. If I hadn't been preoccupied with mustering enough armies to defeat our enemies on land I would have followed this closer during my term. I think this is a good proposal to be followed by the future Chancellor.

TevashSzat

04-25-2007, 00:00

I would like to second Edict 7.4 as well. Due to the fact that our crusaders will most likely start fighting in the next chancellorship with the possibility of conquering multiple cities, our crusader state shall need reinforcements as sufficient military infrastructure is built within the Holy Lands for the states to support themselves. Walking to the Levant by land takes too long and may even cause conflict with other nations. Should our naval power be poor, our troops may be shipped without sufficient guards and be destroyed by infidels with superior fleets.

Stuperman

04-25-2007, 02:38

I make this proposal with the intent of updating some old legislation to accurately reflect the current situation. I understand that uses up m personal edict, but it has been discussed.

Edcit 7.5:

Edict E1.7 shall be re-written from:

For the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

to read:

For the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Marseille, Ragusa and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

I urge all electors to support this modest expansion that ensures the safety of the riech and wil prevent us from being doomed for all eternaty to hell.

OverKnight

04-25-2007, 03:01

Gunther speaks:

My lord will second Edict 7.5

It is part of his goals for his candidacy and will serve to shorten the borders of the Reich, make them more defensible and provide a port closer to the Holy Land.

I ask that another Elector comes forward to second, so that the Diet may vote on this important matter.

Northnovas

04-25-2007, 03:09

The Austrian Elector stands...

I second Edict 7.5 it keeps to the spirit of the original Edict and will offer security for our borders.

AussieGiant

04-25-2007, 04:48

Dukes of the Reich, Counts and Electors,

Greetings from Venice!!

Duke Otto must be commended for his well thought out plans and policies.

I will whole heartedly support his quest for being the next Chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire.

Duke Ulrich,

How would we reconcile with the Pope when you suggest actively attacking other Christian Nations? There is a ground swell of support for our reconciliation as you can well see, your proposal is going to directly prevent us from reaching our aim.

A defensive posture in Europe must be maintained and the edicts should support this.

If war is what you wish for, then make haste and join the Crusade. Having passed through the holy lands recently I am total sure there will be more blood shed that anyone can believe in the next few decades in this part of the world!!

Making war in Europe is counter productive. Trying to trade when everyone around you thinks you are going to hell is extremely difficult gentlemen. As the Count of Venice you are tying both arms and one leg behind my back…the potential for our nation to acquire wealth is enormous, but it will remain unrealised until we are back in the fold of the Pope's good graces.

All relevant edicts have been seconded so I await any further edicts for my consideration.

At this time I would like the Lords of this Diet to think about formulating an edict that organises legislation based on a report I sent recently to a number of Dukes.

“My travels have shown that our goods are especially valuable in regions far removed from our own. I can recommend any two or three merchant caravans be sent to the furthest reaches of Russia, South Western Africa and also sent with the crusade to the Holy Lands. Any of these locations will prove very lucrative to our Imperial coffers. Be warned my Lords. In these remote parts of the world our merchants must be very canny and resourceful. Foul means are employed by many nations and I have had many “near fatal” encounters. Our merchants must be of sufficient skill such as myself to avoid meeting an untimely end”.

I would also like to point out that I completely understand Lord Mandorfs position regarding further violence towards the papacy.

I would like to implore all of you to find alternative methods other than violence in achieving our aims.

To my Duke Leopold, I would like to once again state my gratitude for bestowing Venice to me.

As such I would like to invite the attending Lords to my newly appointed Estate after these Diet proceedings. Carriages will be waiting outside immediately after we have finished.

2nd Elector Austria, Count of Venice.

Ituralde

04-25-2007, 08:29

Ah, Dear 2nd Elector,

The passings of the last months have made one important official announcement within this Diet chamber slip my mind.

The 2nd, Third and Fourth Electors of Austria have been granted the title of Count for the respective settlementsof Venice, Zagreb, and Prague! This is to reward their outstanding service for the Reich in general and Austria in particular.

Another thing that I have missed and now like to put forward is the following Edict:

Edict 7.6:

To ease our relations with the Byzantine Empire an additional 400 florins per turn for a period of 10 turns will be given to our allies. This is to make up for the inconvenience caused by our Crusading Armies. This applies if no Military Access can be achieved with moderate means.

I urge the next Chancellor to follow this proposal even if my late proposing is slimming the chance of seconders. It is important that we don't alienate our allies more than absolutely necessary. Our relations are already at a low point and we have to redeem this situation.

I also like to add my support for Edict 7.5.

econ21

04-25-2007, 09:00

Diet Speaker: The list of Edicts has been updated. Voting will begin at 9pm (UK time) tonight.

OverKnight

04-25-2007, 09:24

Gunther nods toward Duke Leopold:

It is true that the Byzantines are displeased by the presence of the Crusade on their soil. Duke von Kassel has informed me, however, that our forces will be leaving their lands in 2 to 4 years.

The Duke would very much like to support our allies, but the possible passage of edict 7.3 could place an enormous strain on Imperial finances. Whoever becomes Chancellor would need flexibility to spend florins as needed, with as few mandated commitments as possible.

As the Byzantines do not neighbor us and the Crusade will be outside their territory soon, my lord does not view this as a high priority. He would support the edict if the sum was lower, perhaps 200 florins a year. I, personally, do not like to quibble over such a small difference but it would save 2000 florins.

Ituralde

04-25-2007, 11:17

I have made the expierence that the 200 florins we are giving them now hardly make any difference. If we truly want to better our relations with the Byzantines we should go all the way and donate at least 400 florins. Adding another 200 won't make much difference. So either we give them enough to make a difference or we don't give them anything.

AussieGiant

04-25-2007, 11:37

My Lords, Gentlemen,

I would like to second edict 7.6

I'm sure under my tutelage Venice can foot the bill for such a small sum.

I would also like to propose the following edict;

Edict 7.7

A "Holy" flotilla is to be created of such size and strength as to secure safe passage for at least 5 priests. Secure and safe size means more than 5 ships. Once both groups are created they must then leave for the Holy Land in support of our Crusade. This will ensure our advancement in the Colleague of Cardinals over a period of time.

This edict can be repeated as necessary to ensure ongoing presence and advancement in the Colleague of Cardinals over time.

OverKnight

04-25-2007, 11:48

Gunther speaks again:

I will second edict 7.7 as it is consistent with my Master's stated goals. Though it might take a while to assemble the needed ships, as they are expensive when compared to recruiting a priest into the Imperial service.

I also hope that this will satisfy 7.1 as well.

AussieGiant

04-25-2007, 11:55

Yes I would agree with you Gunther.

The ships are on the agenda regarding the fleet edict, so it is more a combination of both edtics to ensure we have a long term plan to ensure we elevate our standing in the Colleague of Cardinals no matter what the outcome of our Crusade.

Ideally the priests would make use of the ships once they become available in sufficient numbers. The fleets are the priority in order to protect our habours, but once they are large enough we can then begin production to fullfil this edict and to send a consitent number of priest to the Holy Land until such time as our Crusading army can establish a foot hold and educate our priest locally.

TinCow

04-25-2007, 12:02

*A minor Bavarian noble from Nuremburg stands up.*

I believe Edict 7.7 is consistent with my Count's policies. Accordingly, using the authority given to me by Count Mandorf, I will also second it.

Northnovas

04-25-2007, 13:11

Austrian electors stands....

I would like to second Duke Leopold's Edict 7.6 to be brought to a vote.

Sits back with the Austrian delegation, though the Count of Prague is conspicuously absent and there is some concern to.....

AussieGiant

04-25-2007, 18:14

Raising his head from a document he is reading

I don't mean to be rude my Lords...but where in god great earth are the Franconians??

Have they all been slaughtered by rabid Polish pigs, or have we all come to the wrong hall??

Stuperman

04-26-2007, 22:47

Congradulations to Chancellor Otta Von Kassel and his election victory, may fortune smile on the riech.

econ21

04-26-2007, 23:07

Diet Speaker: Indeed, congratulations to our new Chancellor! This 7th full session of the Diet is closed, although we may expect to hear from the Chancellor once he has become fully acquainted with our situation.

OverKnight

04-27-2007, 04:20

Gunther rises to read a letter from Otto von Kassel:

Greetings Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors. News of the election has reached me in Anatolia and I am honored and humbled by your decision to make me Chancellor. The messenger I sent with this letter will first reach Duke Leopold outside Zagreb, and he has been ordered to engage the Hungarians, I'm sure he has crushed them. Once that is done, Count Gerhard Steffen and the Count of Venice will combine forces to meet the Venetians who are marching, once again, on their former capital. I am confident those stubborn merchants will, once again, come to grief in northern Italy.

Now that I am Chancellor, let me spell out how I will proceed.

First, with the passage of Edicts 7.2 and 7.3, I will pursue immediate negotiations with Pope Filippus. The second part of 7.2 will not be enforced unless I have a viable plan in place to achieve reconciliation. I will keep an eye on the progress of the Sicilian Cardinal in the College. All possible paths to reconciliation will be pursued, but I ask for the patience of the Diet. This is a thorny and complicated matter, and an immediate solution might not be possible. However, in accordance with 7.1 and 7.7, I will begin to recruit priests immediately.

In order to increase our negotiating power, I must keep a reserve of florins in the treasury. This could delay other projects, particularly in the first years of my term. It is necessary, however, though I do apologize for the inconvenience.

Second, the Crusade will proceed to the Holy Land through Anatolia. As soon as a diplomat can meet with the Byzantines, I will fulfill 7.6. This may take a while, but the Crusade will leave their territory shortly, and I hope this will lessen the chance for conflict.

Third, when funds are available I will bring more merchants into Imperial service. I will recruit them in cities that have the appropriate guild. I have asked Gunther to conduct a survey of guilds in the Reich, that way our agent recruitment will be more efficient. Once recruited, these merchants will develop their skills on local resources and then, when ready, they will be dispatched to trade more exotic and lucrative goods.

Fourth, again when the funds are available, I will fulfill 7.4 and 7.7 by rebuilding our navies. They have fallen into disrepair since Chancellor der Stoltze created the Imperial Navy, and this will be remedied.

Fifth, I am recruiting a diplomat in Hamburg to seek peace with the English. I hope they will be in a receptive mood after being decimated by Count von Hamburg. Good relations with our allies and non-hostile neighbors will be maintained when there are opportunities to do so.

Sixth, with the revision of E1.7 by edict 7.5 in place, I will seek to stabilize the frontiers of the Reich. The first steps in this process will be the conquests of Breslau and Ragusa. However, if our current settlements are threatened, their defense will take priority. Also, that skillful and obstinate French spy must be eliminated in Dijon to help free up Swabian forces.

Of course, our enemies will have some say in these matters, and plans may change as events dictate. Still, with Imperial bravery and skill, we will triumph.

Godspeed good Electors,

Chancellor von Kassel

AussieGiant

04-27-2007, 05:45

A messanger arrives from Venice

My Lords,

I wish to congratulate our new Chancellor, Duke von Kassel!!

Having said that, the turn of events from merchant to the Count of Venice has been extreme to say the least. Russia now seems safe in comparison.

I have sent one of my most trusted Captains to assist Count Steffan in destroying the Venitian army.

Good luck and good hunting Count Steffan.

Warluster

04-27-2007, 06:27

Prinz Jobst stands and whispers

A good battle for Chancellorship that one was...

Jobst's feelings within show quickly, but is covered by a beaming smile

I like this idea of a fleet, we need more safer,secure waters, so when we assure Trade Rights over water it is no longer declined in fear of pirates.

I will also send a message to the Crusaders urging them to hurry up, as oter nations might get there first!

OverKnight

04-27-2007, 06:33

Gunther stands, bows to the Prinz and speaks:

Ah, ummm yes. . .well, your Highness, the Crusade isn't sanctioned by the Church due to our umm. . .status. So no other Catholic nations are taking part.

My lord has assured me, that if we are reconciled that he will seek an official Crusade as soon as our standing within the Church is high enough to do so. At that point, if it happens, we will have quite the head start over the other nations.

Warluster

04-27-2007, 06:37

Without stand, Jobst speaks

Oh, I see...

All the same it is fortunate that we have no competors.

But I still wonder, do we go on this 'Crusade' to gain the liking of the Catholic Church, or is it for personal glory?

As if its for the liking of the Ope, then we have a very small chance of pleasing him. If its for personal glory, then I wish you more luck in that grassless country.

Stuperman

04-27-2007, 07:22

Gerhard Steffen walks in covered in blood from head to toe. He throws a scroll on the table showing the preliminary battle results.

"Every last one of the Venetian Rebels foolish enough to take up arms against the riech have been executed, that should teach the bastards"

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i529500_battleofvenice16bb.JPG (http://www.imagehosting.com)

Ignoramus

04-27-2007, 07:34

Duke Ulrich Hummel angriliy gets to his feet and glares at the Chancellor.

Mein Chancellor Otto, you are a dummkopf if you think France is no threat! Swabians are dying relentlessly for no purpose, other than to drive the Franks from our lands. I cannot stand by and allow you to give the French no retribution for Sigismund's death. Indeed, you are doing the opposite! You are allowing them to pillage our lands.

I feel disgusted at the "wise" electors that pass edicts harnessing retribution for a murdered elector who once led this Reich.

Duke Ulrich motions to Prinz Jobst to take his place as he storms out of the Diet.

AussieGiant

04-27-2007, 14:20

The Count of Venice stands to speak

Lord Gerhard,

My man has sent a message to your quarters regarding my most humble gratitude.

You victory has been the total annihilation of the Venetians forces on the main land.

I thank you for your service to the Reich.

My dear Duke Ulrich,

as one of the Reich's "wise" electors, it has never been my intention for you to be disgusted. I'm sure in due course the French will feel the might of the Reich. For the moment though things will have to remain as they are.

FactionHeir

04-28-2007, 18:44

*the messenger, receiving yet another letter, looks highly nervous before addressing the diet*

Ermm my noble men, my Count wishes to ask whether it was... wise to pay the English a total of 18500 florins for an alliance after they had attacked us and we are even allowed to take one of their cities? Would a lower amount not have sufficed?

OOC: The balance on that was very generous. Generous alone would have raised the relations and made em accept. Could have saved over 4-5k florins!

Stuperman

04-28-2007, 18:59

Gerhard Steffen

I got your message Count, and thank you again.

Good luck to the Franconian armies pursuing the polish in the north.

Peace with the English was expensive, I genuingly hope that it was worth it.

TevashSzat

04-29-2007, 13:46

With the English as our allies, we might even be able to get them to attack the treacherous French and teach them a lesson.

OverKnight

04-29-2007, 15:57

Gunther of Eichstadt speaks to the Diet:

An interesting proposal Elector of Swabia. I am sure my master will pursue it in the next year. We shall see if the long standing enmity between the English and French can be exploited.

Yes, the alliance was expensive, but I can assure the Diet that the Chancellor drove as hard a bargain as he could. The English were loathe to ally with us and any protracted negotiations could have resulted in failure.

My lord hopes that this alliance will benefit us spiritually as well as temporally, and that is why he sought it.

As for Duke Hummel's withdrawal from the Diet, I hope he is aware of the steps that have been taken to reinforce the Swabian Household Army and to root out the French spy in Dijon. None of the Duchies stand alone.

Warluster

04-29-2007, 23:00

Prinz Jobst stands, staring at Gunther of Eichstadt,then speaks quietly
Hm, this is much appreciated... we know no house stands alone, its just the favour of all.
Jobst clears his throat and speaks aloud

We offered all of those florins for a say of word!? They shall break the alliance easily!!! They should've cpme begging on their knees before we even THOUGHT of an alliance!!!

Jobst sits angrily

Stuperman

04-29-2007, 23:49

It is well known that the English and French have thier differneces, one aspect missing is the fact that the English also have a long boarder with the Danes, I'm sure this could be put to our advantage.

TinCow

04-30-2007, 14:08

*A Bavarian nobleman stands, his eyes blurry with tears of joy.*

Peace! Peace at last! We are reconciled with the Pope and returned to the community of God! All praise is due to Chancellor von Kassel for seeing to end of our exile from the light of Christ! I must notify my lord Mandorf of this immediately!

*The man rushes from the room. A faint, receding cry of "Peace! Peace!" hangs in the air to show his passing.*

FactionHeir

04-30-2007, 14:20

*Shifting through several letters that recently arrived from the crusader camp, the messenger addresses the diet*

My dear lords. My count wishes to congratulate the chancellor officially on his feat to reconcile us. He wishes to also ask the diet to join him in his call to have the pope call a true crusade towards Jerusalem.

Ituralde

04-30-2007, 14:22

Duke Leopold rises from his stand, applauding loudly!

Praise the Almighty!

Duke Otto von Kassel has succeeded where I have failed. I have had my doubts about the costly alliance with the English, but the diplomatic skill of our Chancellor seems to be superb. Fourty Years of damnation and purgatory have passed over our lands, but now we are finally back in the graces of Christendom!
I can only pray that this will help end our wars with our Christian neighbours.

I support the Chancellor in any peace negotiations he will make in the future. Approach the Venetians, approach the Poles, the Milanese and the French! Peace can be had at last and we can focus on saving our souls. I will gladly end the siege of Ragusa, if it brings us peace with Venice.

I congratulate Chancellor von Kassel once more on his accomplishment!

A confident smile on his face and looking visibly reliefed he sits back down again.

AussieGiant

04-30-2007, 14:51

Riding up to the doors of the Diet Chamber, the Count of Venice leaps of his steed and roughly embraces Duke Leopold. Realising his catastrophic break of protocol he quickly steps away from the Duke with a shocked wide eyed expression...

...he begins to speak...stops...starts...stops...then simply waits...for a reaction

Warluster

04-30-2007, 22:21

Jobst stands, smiling broadly

Finnally, a light amongst the dark clouds! If Hungary or Poland or France attacks us again, then their the ones excommunicated!!

Jobst looks at Hans Messenger

The idea seems very good, if we get a Offical one then we can gain even more popularity!

Stuperman

04-30-2007, 23:07

Gerhard Steffen

A Stroke of Pure Genius Chancellor Von Kassel. Reconciled without giving up any land is quite amazing.

OverKnight

05-01-2007, 02:02

Gunther reads a message from the Chancellor:

Electors of the Reich,

It is indeed good news that we are reconciled. It is a joy to be savored. Yet as Chancellor I must now consider the practical aspects of our readmittance into the Church.

We must now take into account the opinion of Pope Lanbertus on any actions we might take. Several of our enemies stand higher in his favor than we do, the French and Venetians for example. If we wage an aggressive war outside our current territory with them, we risk excommunication again. This cannot happen!

We have two options available to us, we strike quickly enough and take what we can before a Papal edict compels us to stop, or we engage in an active defense against these powers. Eventually, if they continue attacking us, their standing with the Church will fall, and they themselves may be excommunicated. Both strategies have worked for us in the past.

The conquest of Marseille and Breslau may have to be delayed while we pursue the latter option. Ragusa is the exception, I will attempt to have this lightly defended castle taken quickly before any outside interference can stop us. This will shorten our land border with the Venetians by hundreds of miles, deprive them of their major recruiting center, and will provide our closest port to the Holy Land. These strategic concerns outweigh the risk of displeasing the Pope. However, if ordered by the Pope to cease an attack, I will immediately do so.

Duke Leopold has spoken of seeking peace with many of the factions with whom we are currently at war. This is a noble goal, but I am not sure our peace with the English can be replicated. The English invaded us, we crushed their army, thanks to Count von Hamburg, and then they declared war on the Danes. Also we did not hold any of their territory. These unique factors, I believe, led them to seek peace with us.

The other nations we are feuding with, believe we hold territories that are theirs by the grace of God. The merchant republics still pine for their lost capitals, the Poles want Thorn, the French seem obsessed with Dijon. Even if we grind their armies into dust, peace negotiations with them will still be difficult, and may only serve to discourage our diplomats and blunt their skill. I will seek peace, but I will not give in to outrageous demands or give up one inch of the Empire. Nor have any of their diplomats approached me for peace in my term, though perhaps in Duke Leopold's.

As for calling an official Crusade, until I can send a diplomat to the Pope, this may not be possible. As I said before our standing with him may not be high enough. I will do what I can however. If the current Pope will not grant us a sanctioned Crusade, I am confident the next one will.

TevashSzat

05-01-2007, 02:23

I too, would like to congragulate Chancellor Von Kassel for our reconciliation. Having been the spearhead of the army that brought the last pope's demise, I can say from first hand experience that getting reconciled is not an easy task and that althought the pope is a holy man, he is not feeble and ill suited for battle.

I urge all future chancellors and electors as well to carefully think of the consequences of their actions before engaging in any activity that may result in excommunication once again.

With us reconciled, I propose that a diplomat should be sent to the newly elected pope as soon as possible in order to restablish amicable relations. Should the pope like our diplomat enough, he may even be inclined to support our current crusade towards the Holy Lands.

OverKnight

05-01-2007, 02:59

Gunther is handed a message and he noticeably pales. With his shaking hands clutching the crumbled letter to his chest he speaks in a quavering voice:

Treachery! Foul betrayal. . .I direct the Diet to the latest update of the Chancellor's report. . .

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1524625&postcount=107

Ignoramus

05-01-2007, 03:12

A Swabian page enters the shocked Diet and glances to the Speaker. Receiving permission to speak, he stands up.

Noble electors, I bear a letter from Duke Ulrich.

"Fellow Electors,
For too long have I borne the insult of Sigismund's death gone avenged. No matter what you may say, Sigismund shall be avenged! Before I am finished the whole of northern France shall be laid waster under the Swabian banner.

Ulrich Hummel, Duke of Swabia, Elector of the Holy Roman Reich."

The page bows, and exits the Diet.

Warluster

05-01-2007, 07:43

prince Jobst stands, beaming, and bows his head, then quickly walks from the Imperial Diet, heading to Dijon to relieve the siege, and possibly crack a bottle of wine...

AussieGiant

05-01-2007, 12:38

Standing to speak the Count of Venice raises his voice to harsh levels while turning to the Swabian benches

Has the House of Swabia and it's Duke gone completely insane!!!

Attacking France who is vastly more favored than ourselves after being freshly reconciled with the Papacy!!

I move we immediately sanction Duke Ulrich and strip him of all military forces until such time as he can follow orders, and NOT PLACE this Empire directly on the path of being excommunicated!!!

HIS actions have already been noted by our Cardinals and Bishops!! As of now I am receiving dozens of letters from our clergy and merchants regarding the matter!!

TinCow

05-01-2007, 13:25

*A representative of the Count of Nuremburg stands.*

The Duke of Swabia's actions are an outrage to this Diet! They are made all the more insensible as he could have freely marched on Marseilles, if he so wished. His complaints about a lack of advance on the French are preposterous given this Diet's direct authorization of action against that city!

Duke Hümmel must be restrained immediately, in one manner or another! If the Chancellor cannot exercise his power over this betrayal of the Reich, I demand that the Kaiser call an Emergency Diet session, so that we can strip the Duke of Swabia of his army until such a time as he has repented for his treachery or died of old age!

TevashSzat

05-01-2007, 17:21

Friedrich Scherer stands up after lurking around the Diet quietly

The French were treacherous pigs not unwilling to resort to treacherous strategies to win the war against us. While the other fronts were extremely active with immediate action against the Milanians and the Venetians at first and then proper defenses and counterattacks against the Polish, the western front has been neglected with only defensive measures taken. That could have been allowed and reasoned out if it weren't for the assassination of Sigsmund which required brutal revenge yet we have yet made any significant forays into French territory. The House of Swabia has stood down long enough and now we must seek for revenge and teach the French a lesson.

Friedrich Scherer quickly leaves afterwards

GeneralHankerchief

05-01-2007, 17:37

Conrad Salier:

Congratulations, Duke Ulrich. You have singlehandedly compromised the entire position of the Reich and have worked to undo what all of us have worked so hard to achieve these past years.

I too demand Kaiser Henry to call an emergency session for the specific purpose of censuring the Duke.

TinCow

05-01-2007, 17:42

*The representative of the Count of Nuremburg stands again.*

This is preposterous! The Swabians did not even ask the Diet to approve the conquest of any French territories at the last session! The Austrians requested an alteration to the Edicts to allow for the conquest of Ragusa, and that request was granted easily. A similar edict proposal by any Swabian would likely have received the same level of support. It was only through their own laziness and negligence that such legislation was never proposed. Yet now they stand before us complaining of injustice and bias by the entire Diet!

Madness has overtaken the House of Swabia and the Imperial Diet must act! I demand an Emergency Session be called immediately to temproarily remove the Swabian Household Army from the command of any Swabian!

AussieGiant

05-01-2007, 18:32

The Count of Venice stands again

The action of the Swabian house are totally selfish and without rational thought or reason!!

Sir Sigsmund was murdered 40 years ago!!!

Was anyone in the Swabian house even alive when it happened??!!

This thinly veiled attempt at destroying the wishes of the entire assembly is totally at odds with what has been written in the amendments and edicts of this body of lords!!

One can only wonder if the house of Swabia is working for some other party or realm, because it is certainly not the Holy Roman Empire.

If a few small extremest wish to carve out sheer lunacy then they should be expelled from the Diet and stripped of all titles and rank.

Using Sir Sigsmund's murder as a justifiable reason to conduct this course of action would have him turning over in his grave!! And I say this with all authority having meet the man numerous times!!

Any senior member of this Diet will confirm this.

An Emergency Session is needed forth with and action must be taken!!

econ21

05-01-2007, 20:23

Diet Speaker: The Kaiser is sympathetic to the calls for an Emergency Session of the Diet. His main priority at the moment is raising our standing with the Pope and offensive actions by Swabia against France are having the opposite effect.

However, the Kaiser is of the opinion that the Chancellor already has all the laws and powers he needs to curb the House of Swabia. If the Chancellor believes that an Emergency Session of the Diet is required to restore discipline, then it will be granted.

Otherwise, the Kaiser hopes that the House of Swabia will act with more restraint than it speaks in the Diet and bear in mind that any gains by conquest will be allocated at the Kaiser's discretion. If these hopes are not fulfilled and the Chancellor unable to restore control, then an Emergency Session will be called.

AussieGiant

05-01-2007, 20:44

Right then...I guess we should all adjourn for lunch and take a moment to ponder our choices.

Of course the two members of Swabia who have their heads up each other back passages, might want to get their hands off each others todgers, put them firmly down their own trousers, and do something sensible at this moment in time, like take out their frustrations on their mistresses and not the heathen French scum!!

I look forward to the afternoon session with baited breath gentlemen.

Striding from the Diet Chamber the Count of Venice can be heard bellowing

Schultz!! Stutz!!

Get the rest of my blood sucking lawyers together...I have some work for you!!

OverKnight

05-01-2007, 20:49

Gunther looks nervously about the Diet and speaks:

Duke Hummel has disobeyed orders in a time of war and defied the will of the Diet, a serious offense. Yet the Duke will not be in violation of Edict E1.7 or CA 6.7 unless he takes Rheims. My master has written him to ask that he return to Metz. If he does so, then the Chancellor will consider the matter closed, though he cannot control the reaction of the Diet.

If, however, Duke Hummel continues with his siege and we receive a Papal bull forbidding an attack against France in the new year, my master will be forced to call for an emergency session. Does the Duke truly believe that he will receive better treatment from the Diet than the Chancellor?

The Rubicon has not been crossed just yet, but Duke Hummel is coming very close to mutiny and rebellion. The Chancellor asks that he step back from the abyss.

My lord believes the Swabian delegation is entitled to their opinions and while it is natural that they feel loyalty to their Duke, they also owe their fealty to the Reich. This is most true of Prinz Jobst. The Chancellor asks that he refrain from joining the Duke in any "independent" action.

TinCow

05-01-2007, 21:14

*The Count of Nuremburg's representative gestures towards a figure at the back. A man in dark, gilded robes comes forward and exchanges a few words with the representative. He then turns to the Diet and clears his throat.*

As the legal representative of my Lord, Count Maximillian Mandorf, I have been asked to point our the legal situation as it pertains to Chancellor von Kassel's most recent statements. The applicable regulations in regards to this matter are found in subclause 4 of Charter Amendment 5.1, which reads as follows:

4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion.

As you may note, the clause only requires the Chancellor to follow Ducal orders for the Household Armies when they are submitted in a timely manner, namely at the beginning of each Diet session. Orders submitted later can be followed at the Chancellor's discretion. We are all aware that Duke Hümmel did not submit orders for the Swabian Household Army in a timely manner. Therefore they could only have been carried out with the Chancellor's approval...

*The lawyer looks over at the Count of Nuremburg's representative, who nods sternly, clearly ordering the man to continue.*

...the Diet must conclude therefore that the Chancellor has given his tacit approval for this... maneuver... and...

*The lawyer starts to go pale and swallows audibly.*

...accordingly he may also be held accountable for the consequences of Duke Hümmel's actions. I hope this fact is considered by all parties to this dispute.

*The lawyer turns to sit, looking warily at the Chancellor's retinue. Suddenly he straightens and some light returns to his face.*

Ah, my lords, in light of my recent statements, perhaps it would be useful to point out another legal fact. Under subclause 8, the Chancellor has the authority to detach any units from the Household Army in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. This action does not require the permission of the Duke. Might I suggest that perhaps Chancellor von Kassel could give some emphasis to his warning to Duke Hümmel by reducing the Swabian Household Army to the minimum strength requirements allowed by law. Not only would this show that the Chancellor truly seeks to restrain the Swabian illegalities, but perhaps it would also make Duke Hümmel think twice about his actions, considering he would find himself isolated in enemy territory with an exceedingly small force to protect him.

*The Bavarian lawyer bows and sits down.*

Ituralde

05-01-2007, 22:22

Duke Leopold enters the Diet Chamber and after a brief discussion with his Houses members turns to face the Assembly.

I am honoured to announce that the mighty Venetian Fortress of Ragusa is now under Imperial control. I hope this puts a stop to the constant Venetian attacks on their former capital. While these are indeed good news it is another matter that brings me to this Diet today.

He turns to look at the Swabian benches.

I must follow the rest of the Diet in condemning Duke Hummels actions. They put us in peril of excommunication while violating our Charter and several Edicts! This madness had to be stopped as soon as possible. If the Swabian Duke were to follow through with his plan to conquer all of Norther France excommunication will be the result!

I can understand the feelings of the House of Swabia. I also had to endure numerous attacks from the Venetians, before I could finally strike back at them. But as others I believe that this Chamber should be a suitable enough forum for such concerns. A simple Edict calling for more offensive action against France could have done the job. No such Edict was laid before this Chamber. Instead Duke Hummel has decided to wage a private war against France that is not backed up by any Imperial authority.

As a result I already demand now that every land conquered through his unrighful actions shall be returned to France once this madness his over and his rampage is stopped. I have had my past differences with the House of Swabia, but I am not one to hold a grudge. This time they have gone to far though and have rightfully cast the Diets fury on themselves. I hope that this body will find the means to punish Duke Hummel and all his supporters for his insubordination!

TinCow

05-02-2007, 01:09

*Two incredibly large Bavarians enter the Diet. They scan the room and quickly locate the Count of Nuremburg's representative. He stares wide-eyed at them, as they approach and grab him by the shoulders. The representative starts protesting in an increasingly high-pitched voice, but the men physically lift him and drag him from the room. As they pass the Bavarian lawyer, one of the men hands him a note. The lawyer, who is visibly shaken, scans the note quickly.*

It appears that some individuals have understood my recent words as implying that the Chancellor was somehow complicit in Duke Hümmel's treachery. That was not my intention and I apologize for the misunderstanding. The Chancellor is most highly respected in Nuremburg and Count Mandorf's staff are under strict orders to ensure that no slurs are made against him in this Diet.

*The lawyer glances back down at the parchment for a moment before continuing.*

I am authorized to say that Count Mandorf will fully support Duke Leopold's proposal that all lands illegally conquered by the Swabians be returned to France by diplomatic means. My Lord Mandorf himself has ordered that, in the event that Duke Hümmel attacks Rheims and an Emergency Diet Session is called, an Edict be proposed which will strip Swabia of all control over her own Household Army for a period of 20 years, in accordance with subclause 10 of Charter Amendment 5.1. My Lord Mandorf will also consider proposing measures that are even more harsh if he deems them to be necessary in the future.

AussieGiant

05-02-2007, 11:13

Striding past the outward moving scrum of men and the ex-representative of the Count of Nuremburg, the Count of Venice indicates with a wave of his hand and is escorted into the chamber by four large unarmed men who look very Slavic in appearance. In addition there are 4 lawyers in his escort.

So I see the tension levels have risen.

Please note the four gentlemen here with me are Russian and they speak only their native language. Of course in my travels I have picked a few words of the language and they are under orders from me to ensure my liberty is maintained.

Raising an amused look to the departing representative of Nuremburg the Count continues

You might call it insurance to practice free speech if you will my lords

I also see my Lord Mandorf’s resources are far reaching enough to come to the same conclusions my own lawyers have here in Rome, minus of course the implied involvement of the Chancellor. I believe Lord Mandorf has made his feelings quite clear on the matter. The poor fellow seems to be in a spot of bother at this stage of his life.

If some representative of Swabia would be kind enough to relay these findings to Duke Ulrich then this would be most helpful. I'd hate to have the poor fellow find out about all this in the field with a French Full Stack army in his vicinity and his army disappearing before his own eyes.

Based on my own council, then the following actions are required: Duke Ulrich must cease and desist from any offensive actions towards the heathen French and any other nations for that matter. Immediate compliance is needed within the year or the SHA should be reduced to minimal levels. Duke Ulirch should then present himself to this Diet in person to face this group of August men on the matters at hand.

Stuperman

05-02-2007, 17:32

Gerhard Steffen:

In light of the legal crisis surrounding the Swabian mutany, I think that I have some significantly important information. Before the voting in the last diet session, I contacted a messenger, to send a draft copy of the legislation to all the Dukes and the Kaiser. I was specifically looking for input on proposed changes to Edict E1.7, changes that could have easily included Rhiems, Paris or any one of a number of targets for the Swabians to legally attack. This message was completely ignored my the Swabians, at the time I wondered why. Now it looks like this plan was in motion for several years now, Active Disloyalty by an entire Household?!?! The mere thought makes me sick to my stomach, the Swabians are no longer fit to be called Germans.

Warluster

05-02-2007, 21:51

Prinz Jobst walks in, looks around but then sits down. Then he wtaches the Diet with interest. Someone nearby whispers to him and tells him what the last few speakers have said,Jobst rises
Hm, Gerhad Steffen.

I woud say to shut up about now, as you are going far to anger people of mind.

I say this to the rest of you lot, that you call this a 'rebellion'? A mutinty? Do you even know what they are!? If Swabia was rebelling, we would not call ourselves Swabians. But we still do, and yes, we are Germans!

If you gerhad wish to meet Swabia in open battle, that is rebelling yourself. So how do we know your not? Hm?

Prinz Jobst swallows, has if to spit but thinks better

GeneralHankerchief

05-02-2007, 23:10

Conrad Salier:

How sad it is that our future Kaiser endorses blatantly illegal actions.

I will say it again - anyone who condones Ulrich Hummel's actions and defends them is either a fool or a rebel. The questionable reclamation of honor for one man, long dead, is not enough to risk the undoing of Duke Otto's brilliant maneuvers with the Papacy.

It is clear that by reading on Hummel's latest moments that the Chancellor has proven unable to control this renegade force. With that in mind, I once again implore Kaiser Henry to call an emergency session so that Hummel and possibly Swabia can be properly disciplined.

TevashSzat

05-03-2007, 00:30

Friedrich Scherer enters the diet

I have recieved news of the pope's death and the election of new one. Due to our support of the new pope, we are in his highest favor and he has even agreed to call a crusade for us. Given the proximity of our crusader armies to Jerusalem already and our good relations with the pope, I have much doubt that he may order us to cease aggression upon the French. Should we fall into disfavor once again, surely once we have captured Jerusalem and give it to the pope, he will see our way and we shall be in his favor once again.

Warluster

05-03-2007, 08:25

Prince Jobst stands

Sorry Count Salier, I aplogise.

I was sidetracked by gerhad's absurd post, I meant to say to the Diet this:

I do not speak for the whole House/Duchy of Swabia. That right is reserved for Duke Hummel.

But I speak for myself.

I aplogise for any means to offend the Imperial Diet, and wish to stay neutral in this conflict, as I wish not to be caught up in such things.

OverKnight

05-03-2007, 08:44

Gunther looks alarmed at the current rancor in the Diet:

My lords, please this is a legislative body, not a tavern. I must make clear, that only Duke Hummel has violated an order from the Chancellor. The Prinz and Squire Scherer, while speaking in his defense, have not acted against the will of the Diet. They are free to say what they wish in this Chamber, while of course keeping in mind the protocols and rules of this body.

Swabia is not in revolt, it is one Swabian who has taken the Household Army on a personal mission. While a very serious matter itself, please keep this distinction in mind before speaking.

AussieGiant

05-03-2007, 08:53

Standing again

With that all said and done, I would like to therefore direct more comments to Duke Ulrich specifically and to none of the other members of the Swabian House.

Nodding to the four Slavic gentlemen they depart the Diet chamber but can be seen waiting out side the hall talking amongst themselves

Warluster

05-03-2007, 09:07

But I also say, Duke Ulrich was doign what he thought right, and was doing it for the good of Swabia and the Reich, most of you might not have the same views as Duke Ulrich.

Ituralde

05-03-2007, 10:45

I do not doubt Duke Hümmels intentions, nor his ambitions to strike at the French. What has brought this Diet into rage was the prospect of the Swabian Duke breaking several Edicts. We have a way here, that says we promote Edicts that let us fulfill our desires. We don't fulfill our desires and then hope that the Diet will sanction them. Not even a Duke is above the law, I'm afraid.

Leopold smiles faintly.

But let us divert our attention for a moment to a more glorious announcement. Finally our Crusade has found the true blessing of the Pope! With this approval of God's representative the Crusaders might find the zeal to traverse the heathen lands even more quickly and conquer Jerusalem in the name of all Christendom!

He raises a goblet, handily supplied by the Count of Venice.

I salute those brave men, enduring the hardships of the heathen lands to bring eternal glory to the Reich for retaking the place where God's own son performed his most memorable miracles!
I salute Chancellor von Kassel to have found the energy and spirit to guide not only the Crusaders but the Reich as well and readmit us to the brotherhood of Christianity!

Ignoramus

05-03-2007, 11:16

A page bearing Ulrich Hummel's colours enters the Diet.

Mein electors, Duke Ulrich has announced that he shall yield the Duchy of Swabia. He appoints Friedrich Scherer as his successor. After fighting his way through the French that surround Rheims, he will take the cross and take ship for Jerusalem.

The page bows and takes a seat by the Swabians.

econ21

05-03-2007, 19:49

Diet Speaker: There is no provision in the Charter for Dukes resigning. Consequently, the resignation of Ulrich von Hummel as Duke of Swabia takes us into unchartered waters, so to speak. Where there is ambiguity or incompleteness in the Charter, the Kaiser is the ultimate arbiter on what is and what is not constitutional.

In this case, the Kaiser has determined that he will accept Ulrich's nomination of Frederich Scherer as his successor, but only in the rank of Steward. At the next Diet, we should ammend the Charter to cover this matter and so find some legal means of installing a replacement Duke.

OverKnight

05-03-2007, 20:08

Gunther speaks:

Now that Friedrich Scherer is Steward, he will of course make his way to Swabia. I believe my master now wishes to have him serve with Prinz Jobst. I'm sure that the Prinz will get him into battle so that he may show his valor and be knighted.

I hope that with Sir Hummel's decision to take the Cross, we can put this ugly affair behind us. He has sought forgiveness by doing God's work, and my master does not wish to see any further acrimony between the Houses.

AussieGiant

05-03-2007, 20:14

Motioning towards his group of lawyers and his four Slavic gentlemen outside the Diet Chamber doors to leave the Count of Venice stands

Excellent, now that's settled I believe it's time to celebrate the success of the upcoming Crusade and toast our brave Generals in the far east.

I'm putting on drinks in the saloon outside if anyone would like to join.

Warluster

05-04-2007, 06:56

Prinz Jobst stands, and swhispers

It is your choice Hummel, your choice...

Jobst speaks louder

Well, it seems we have been deprived of enemies to prove a Knight.

Steward Friedrich, I shall send you a messenger outlining stuff.

If the Bavarian Army currently attaking Marseille, needs help, or does not succed, I am sure I and Steward Friedrich will be happy to help them...?

Prinz Jobst sits

Ignoramus

05-04-2007, 07:51

Rupolph von Hapsburg, one of Ulrich's retainers, rushes into the Diet. It is evident that he has just returned from battle, as his mail and surcoast are drenched in blood.

Mein electors, Herr Hummel has slaughtered the French outside of Rheims. When Ulrich slew Louis, King of France, the cowards put up but a faint resistance, and we took many prisoners. Indeed, Herr Ulrich's reatainers captured over 400. Herr Ulrich had no hesitation in butchering the lot of them, though some would argue that the 3,000 florins might have been more beneficial to the Reich. Nevertheless, I can safely say that Herr Sigismund has finally been avenged. May he rest in peace.

Rupert bows and sits down at the Swabian benches. Prinz Jobst is horrified that he has not at least bothered to clean himself, and a heated argument ensues, until Rupert angriliy shows the Prinz his wounds, wherewith the Prinz is silent.

Ituralde

05-04-2007, 09:06

Duke Leopold sips at his wine goblet remaining in his seat after finishing his toasts. He listens glumly to the new announcements, and after he hears of the recent Duke Hümmels plans he leans back and can not help but mutter: "How convenient..."
Showing dissatisfaction on his face, this is quickly drowned by another sip of his wine.

OverKnight

05-04-2007, 09:37

Gunther looks up at Ulrich's messenger:

And has Sir Ulrich retreated from Rheims? Which was the given reason for the battle in the first place?

We both know that he could have retreated cleanly without battle if he had chosen to. It seems that there was an ulterior motive. The death of King Louis would suggest this, as would the butchering of the French prisoners. The 3,000 florins gained from ransoming them could have funded the Ballista Towers Prinz Jobst wanted for Dijon.

Gunther sighs

If our wayward Knight is not destroyed by the French, he will still take part in the Crusade. Though he has delayed his departure and further weakened the forces he will bring with him. The Chancellor is displeased with this outcome, but will keep to his agreement.

TevashSzat

05-04-2007, 12:57

Messenger comes bearing a letter

Fellow electors, although the resignation of Duke Hummels was unprecedented, I shall do my best in order to further the goals of the House of Swabia as well as the Empire. I am currently making my way towards Prinz Jobst and hope to be of some help to him.

OverKnight

05-04-2007, 17:51

Gunther recieves a message and starts up from his seat:

My lords! Marseille has been taken by Count Steffen! Odd, I had no word of a battle. . .I refer everyone to the latest Chancellor's report.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1528753&postcount=114

flyd

05-05-2007, 06:36

A message arrives from the north. It is from von Hamburg.

Good electors,

I have just been involved in a skirmish with a moderately sized rebel force just north of Frankfurt, the old seat of the Diet. Though they were numerous, they were easily routed. However, there is a matter to be discussed. Please examine the enclosed document:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/flydude18/halberd.jpg

In it you will see a scene recorded at the skirmish. In it are depicted some rebels retreating before our knights. Do any of you, good electors, notice anything peculiar about the manner in which these rebels are armed? Perhaps some of you that have spent much time in Italy do not. However, I assure you that these weapons, the halberds, are far more advanced than the standard issue equipment of our militias in Germany. Indeed, there exists no smith in all of Germany who can produce these!

It would appear that the only places capable of producing these are in Rome and Venice. This brings up a question. How in the hell do rebels near Frankfurt obtain highly advanced arms produced in Italy? Well, I am certainly not surprised that those Italians would attempt to subvert our Reich. Being too cowardly to do so militarily, they are content with supplying others. That is no surprise. What is a surprise is that this is allowed to happen. Just how do these weapons get manufactured, in the cities, get smuggled outside of the city walls, across all of Italy, across the Alps, and into Germany, without anyone noticing?

Worse yet, why is none of this equipment reaching the Imperial forces in Germany? Even the rebel knights I encountered had plate armor, my knights being armored only with mail. As such, the men have been reduced to scavenging off the enemy (though unfortunately, most of the enemy knights fled the battle successfully).

I never respected Emperor Heinrich because he didn't care about Germany. He liked to pretend that he was the actual Roman Emperor. When he moved the capital to Rome, there was much discontent in the homelands, which continues to this day. But now I wonder, does anybody care about Germany? With most of Bavarian lands now actually being in Italy, the Austrians having too moved south, and the Swabians largely engaged in France, only Franconia remains German. We have fought off various invaders and insurrections, and have received little support. That isn't a problem, we don't need it. However, it would be nice if, at least, our enemies did not receive it either!

Fredericus von Hamburg.

AussieGiant

05-05-2007, 07:01

My Lord Fredericus,

I see your point entirely.

I will immediately begin making inquiries through my merchants to determine if any arms trading has been taking place.

Your documentation is impeccable and without refute so I do not think it should be too difficult.

Ituralde

05-07-2007, 13:50

My Dear Electors, Nobles of the Reich!

An eventful time lies behind us. Gerhard von Steffen has shown bravery and initiative by using the uprisings in Marseille to our advantage. Conquering a city without a single fight should truly be congratulated!

News has reached me from the East, where our Crusaders have won two important victories against the heathens. They even seized one of their Castles in the process. God must truly be smiling on the Reich and Chancellor von Kassel to allow for such fortunate events. I salute Emperor Henry and Count Mandorf on their excellent victories. Along with the other noble citizens of the Reich they are ensuring that our Crusade is a success and that the infidels fear us, before we have reached the Holy Land!

This is a time of opportunity and strength! We have crushed our enemies on the fronts and can even afford to send enough men to reconquer Jerusalem in the name of Christ! The Reich is truly blessed. We should take this opportunity, this stroke of luck that has gripped us and try to turn it to the greatest benefit for the Reich. Once Breslau is taken, we should look to stabilize our borders and finally attempt to reestablish the trade routes, broken of by decades of war with our neighbours. If we use our strength wisely in our negotiations with our enemies, we will not only find peace, but the opportunities for trade will be beyond our imagination. I ask the Chancellor to not let this period of stability and strength go by unused. We can now afford to draw a deep breath and concentrate on our non-military advance for once, instead of plunging on into the next war, on the next frontier.

I believe that peace is imperative for our country to rebuild and prosper once again. Our desires for war can easily be quenched against the heathens soiling our sacred places. We don't need to ruin good farmland, destroy roads and livestock in our country. I urge Chancellor von Kassel to take this opportunity to find peace, with our enemies, and for the Reich!

Stuperman

05-07-2007, 15:48

A wirey looking french lad enters the Diet bearing a message with a Bavarian seal

Gerhard Steffen

Greetings from the south of France!

I took the Chancellor's advise and decided to relax in a warmer climate for a while, let me spend some time with my family. Firstly I must congradulate the Many successes of of the Riech, Kaiser Henry, and Maximillian Mandorf for their victories over the turks, which have ensured the survival of the crusade for now. My thoughts and prayers for whatever they are worth are with the crusaders.

Prinz Von Salza also deserves recognition for his many defences of Dijon in the face of the French. Maybe a few of the Frenchmen will wander south and give me something to do.

Ulrich Hümmel, regardless of the politics of the situation, your command accumen is second to none, and I personally am In debeted to you. The 'tretchery' I accused you of earlier left Mersaille totally undefended, such a stroke of strategic genius shouldn't go unnoticed.

Duke Leopold, although several years ago now, your victory at Ragusa has secured the south east, and hopefully will lead to a lasting peace.

May Steward von Kastilien's action against the polish at Breslau go off without any problems.

I would like to take this time to emplore the chancellor as Duke Leopold has, Germany is strong, rich and mostly at peace. Should we squander this opportunity it will haunt us for generations, we must focous on continued security and development. Perhaps at the next diet session we should amend the charter to include larger minimum household armies, or smaller secondary ones?

AussieGiant

05-07-2007, 18:38

I agree with Duke Leopold and Lord Steffen,

We should make peace with our Christian brothers in Europe. There is much to be gained by re-establishing trade and alliances.

For those who wish to shed blood for the Reich then they can make their way East and defend our holdings there.

Kagemusha

05-07-2007, 21:08

A crusader knight enters the Imperial Diet.He is the Veteran warrior of Dietrich Von Saxony.

"Electors of the Reich. I bring word of sorrow from the far away lands of Levant.My Lord,Duke of Franconia,Dietrich Von Saxony has departed from us and is now with the God in heaven.
He died peacefully on his sleep and im here to follow his last wishes,to give you his testament and final will"

Knight starts reading from a scroll

"Mein Kaiser,Prinz,Dukes,Counts and Electors of the Reich. As you are hearing this,it means that im not among the living anymore. I hope you will protect my widow and daughter and make sure that they will be treated accordingly to prestige they posses.
I have decided that my follower as the Duke of Franconia will be Steward Von Kastillien. I command each and every Elector of Franconia that they will do their utter most to help him on his task and obey him in all circumstances.
For my erthly remainders,i would hope to be buried in the location of my death facing North West towards Franconia.No need to move my body to another location. I wish that my personal belongings would be shipped to my widow.This sayed Goodbye mein Herr and Glory to the Reich!God be with you all.

Dietrich Von Saxony,Duke of Franconia"

Dietrich´s veteran closes the scroll,bows to the Diet and leaves.

Warluster

05-07-2007, 22:13

Prinz Jobst stands, his head bowed

Rest in Peace Dietrich...

You fought for The Reich many times, your bravery never faltering, from the times of Kaiser Heinrich, to the days of Kaiser Henry.

We shall not forget your service.

Prinz Jobst sits,head still bowed.

Dutch_guy

05-07-2007, 22:15

A messenger bearing a letter arrives, it bears the seal of Steward Günther von Kastillien.

A sad day it is, a great leader and friend is dead.

Franconia is in mourning, we console ourselves with the knowledge our late Leader is in a better place, watching over us from above. But it should not have to be said his presence will be missed, both by his friends as undoubtedly by his rivals.

A copy of his will is now in my possession, and I shall do my utmost best to lead this House to the best of my abilities. We have lost a great Franconian, but there are numerous rising stars who may - one day ! - come close to Dietrich's greatness. Time will tell, but I am confident in the people of Franconia. As I should be.

As of now all Franconian administration shall be in my hands. A new steward will soon be chosen from our ranks, and the decision will be made public as soon as it can be. I am hoping to be able to do this, this election for the Franconian stewardship, by popular vote. Note, as this is a matter of Franconia, her members alone will be able to vote in the matter.

I thank you for your time.

Yours,

- Duke Günther von Kastillien.

The messenger ends, heading back to the Franconian benches.

OverKnight

05-08-2007, 08:19

Gunther stands and speaks to the Diet:

As we await word from the battles facing the Reich, let me present Chancellor von Kassel's mid-term report to this body.

Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors, the state of the Reich is strong. When I ran for Chancellor, I gave six goals for my term and the Diet entrusted me with seven edicts to fulfill. My first goal was peace and reconciliation with the Papacy. I am proud to say that with the elevation of Pope Lanbertus, this was fulfilled, along with Edict 7.3. The subsequent election of Pope Pisanus has further strengthened our ties to the Church. Using the Master Theologians Guild in Budapest combined with missionary work in Heathen lands I hope to foster many Imperial priests who will be qualified for the College of Cardinals. This way we can ensure our continued preferential relationship with the Papacy and meet edict 7.1. I hope one day to have an Imperial Pope.

My second goal was to have the Crusade arrive safely in the Holy Land. The Crusade forces are now in Palestine, except for those holding Adana, and are poised to successfully complete their goal. Due to the outstanding leadership of Kaiser Henry, Count Mandorf and the departed Duke von Saxony, we have also crushed three massive Jihad armies before they could reach the capital of our ally the Byzantine Empire. God has truly smiled upon us. Yet the end of the Crusade will only mark the beginning of our work in Outremer. Jerusalem will be gifted to the Pope, but there are many lands for us to conquer and bring into the light of Christ and the dominion of the Empire. I ask for a new wave of Crusaders from the Reich to accomplish this noble task. Who will join us?

My third goal was economic expansion. Merchant Guilds have been added throughout the Reich. Though only two merchants have been recruited so far, this will be addressed in the second half of my term. Tax collection has risen since the end of our excommunication, the financial difficulties of the beginning of my term have passed and a full construction program is progressing.

The fourth goal of my term was to rebuild the Imperial Navy and this was reinforced by edict 7.4. This is still a work in progress, and I hope to complete it by the end of my term. Ships have been built, but many of the them are bound for the Holy Land. 5 flotillas of Holks were needed to transport Sir Hummel's Crusade force. Also a further 3-4 flotillas will be needed to transport agents to the Holy Land. As we speak, five priests, a merchant (with another being recruited), a spy and diplomat are gathering at Venice's port to be shipped east. I apologize that the size of the fleet will be smaller than outlined in edict 7.7, but financial constraints and the fact that they had to travel separately from Sir Hummel's men dictated it.

The fifth goal was the maintenance of peace with our neutral neighbors and allies. This has met with mixed success. We have turned England from an enemy to an ally, but our relations with Denmark and Russia have fallen. We have kept our other allies though, we've helped elevate a Sicilian Cardinal to Pope, and saved the Byzantines from doom for the moment. Edict 7.6 was also fulfilled. I will continue to pursue peace with our enemies and neighbors, but if they stubbornly choose war, we will crush them.

My final goal was to stabilize the frontiers of the Reich, the means of which were spelled out in edict 7.5. Breslau eludes us for the moment, but Marseille and Ragusa are now ours. Besides the seizure of these territories my strategy was to assume an active defense, taking the initiative from our enemies and forcing them back on their heels.

Thanks to Count Steffen and Duke Leopold, the Venetians were crushed in northern Italy and their means to raid our heartland were destroyed when Ragusa fell. Despite a few stray units, they have not crossed our borders since. We also owe Duke Leopold thanks for destroying a Hungarian army near Zagreb in 1180, since then the Magyars have turned their gaze to other nations, and their former capital is firmly in our grasp. The Milanese have not been seen on the mainland since Count Salier drove them into the sea in 1176.

The French front has been more active, and though Sir Hummel's raid on Rheims did not have the sanction of this body, his gelding of the French relief force, combined with Prinz Jobst's valiant defense of Dijon, has bled them dry. Licking their wounds no doubt, they have not crossed our borders in the last few years.

The Poles are the exception. Our front with them is a hornet's nest. Yet, our drive on Breslau by Duke von Kastilien has pinned them to that area. There have been no more raids on Frankfurt or Stettin.

The eradication of Rebel scum has continued on pace, there are fewer outlaw bands now than at the beginning of my term. Count von Hamburg has been most helpful in this area.

Once the frontiers are fully stabilized, I plan to hold them for now without expansion. Let our enemies come to us, let them anger the Pope with their incursions as we bleed and weaken them. If they wish peace, so be it. If they continue to war with us, they will perish.

Together we have brought the Reich to redemption. We are victorious on every front. We have smote the infidel and we will bring the Cross to Jerusalem. With God's grace, the rest of my term will bring further glory and triumph to the Kaiser and the Reich.

Warluster

05-08-2007, 09:18

Prinz Jobst nods as Chancellor Von Kassel delivers his speech, and nearly roars in agreement with some parts. Eventually clapping at the end, and stands

A very,very good speech Chancellor Von kassel, all [oints finely delivered.

Except!

One pooint, of your 'reinforcments' to The Holy Land. As of now most of the Duchy's are shortened to two generals, Generals in The Reich. And if anymore leave, we may have none to defend the lands! I say scrap reinforcment plan, and just make Adanna better, and train better troop over there!

Prinz jobst sits

TinCow

05-08-2007, 12:20

*The Bavarian lawyer, now permanently acting as the Count of Nuremburg's representative, rises.*

Prinz von Salza, I understand your regret at the departure of your former Duke for Outremer. However, we have a wave of young blood who are nearly ready for performance on the battlefield. For the Franconians, Count von Hamburg's eldest son will come of age next year. For the Swabians, Kaiser Henry's youngest son will come of age next year and the late Sigismund der Stolze's daughter is already of marriable age. The Austrians will soon be graced with the presence of whomever Duke Leopold's daughter marries. The good woman is already of marrying age and will surely be wedded soon.

After this, within the remainder of Chancellor von Kassel's term, four more noble daughters and three more sons will come of age. There will be no shortage of noble generals to lead the Reich, I assure you.

Ituralde

05-08-2007, 14:31

Leopold rises slowly and begins to speak slow as well, his voice tainted with graveness.

It is indeed grave news that we recieve from the Levant these days. Duke Dietrich von Saxony, my trusted ally and friend dead? I mourn with his wife and children, I mourn with the House of Franconia and I mourn with the Reich over the death of one of our greatest Dukes!

He was such a noble man that he set out on this perilous endeavour, knowing that he will most likely never see the end of it. He has accomplished much through his presence though. His victory near Nicea and his assistance in the battle near Adana speak volumes for his military capabilities. But I am sure that also beside the battlefied he has been a helpful friend, who lends his courage and wisdom to those surrounding him.

It is with great sorrow that I have recieved the news of his death this day. I will not comment upon the Chancellor's midterm report or attend this Diet until after an appropriate time of mourning has passed.

Slowly Leopold leaves the Austrian benches and walks to the doors of the Diet nearing apathy.

econ21

05-12-2007, 13:06

Diet Speaker: As the next Diet session will soon be upon us, the Kaiser asks that any general wishing to discuss their next posting contact him privately. The Kaiser will be interested to hear any ideas generals have about their futures. If no representations are made, the Kaiser will assume that generals are satisfied with their current postings.

Ituralde

05-12-2007, 16:35

Duke Leopold rises from the Austrian benches, joy displayed clearly on his face:

We did it!

He triumphantly raises a fist!

We accomplished the mission we set out so long ago. I congratulate the Crusaders on finally wresting Jerusalem out of the heathen hands! Our most glorious duty is fulfilled. We have repent our sins and eternal glory both here and in the afterlife will await those brave men that took on the ordous journey to reconquer the holy sites of Christendom!

I heard already the Papacy has accepted our gift of the Holy City and they are even now building the Kingdom of Heaven where Christ himself walked the earth and every place bears remnants to the wonders visited upon them by God himself! This is indeed a glorious day for all Christianity, but more importantly for the Holy Roman Empire. Once again we are at the fore of defending Christendom against the heathens! I urge every god-fearing Christian to undertake the journey to the Holy Land to help our brothers defend those places against the infidels trying to pry our well earned conquests from our hands!

A time of glory and a time of greatness now lies ahead of us, what could possibly stop us now, where we have mastered our enemies in Europe and even those in the Levant?

Leopold raises a cup of wine and waits for the cheers to subdue before raising his voice again.

I raise my cup to Kaiser Henry, Pope Pisanus, and the new-dound unity between Christendom and the Holy Roman Empire! A bright future awaits us!
Nothing can stop us now!

He drains the cup in one long gulp!

TinCow

05-12-2007, 18:09

*The Bavarian lawyer stands.*

Diet Speaker, does this mean that Kaiser Henry plans to exercise his right assume the position of Chancellor this term?

econ21

05-12-2007, 18:13

Diet Speaker: Yes, indeed - the Kaiser will exercise his perogative at the coming Diet.

AussieGiant

05-12-2007, 23:17

So...that's it gentlemen, the votes are in, the Kaiser will be next Chancellor.

Thanks for everyone's time, the speeches were wonderful and lobbying for my vote was greatly appreciated along with all the fine dinning and gifts.

That's got to be the most inexpensive Diet election we've had in decades.

I LIKE IT!!

OverKnight

05-12-2007, 23:32

Gunther coughs and looks a bit exasperated at the Count of Venice:

Duke von Kassel is still Chancellor until he gives his final report in 1200 and the new Diet session opens. But yes, then the Kaiser will assume the Chancellorship.

Still, I am glad that I will not have to campaign for my master again. I found it to be very taxing.

AussieGiant

05-13-2007, 00:09

For just a moment the Count of Venice looks a little embarrassed but quickly continues in his usual manner

Ahh, yes, Gunther, well spotted...I do seemed to have jumped the gun a bit on that topic haven't I?

Yes, well, that's a rhetorical question, so never mind...I'm sure Duke von Kassel is going to do everyone proud as he rounds out this outstanding period under his excellent Chancellorship.

Warluster

05-13-2007, 00:55

Prinz Jobst stands

Several things to comment on...

Well done all noble Crusaders, you have reached your...goal. I hope you feel...re-established?

I also wish to congratulate Duke Von Kassel for what I think one of our best CHancellors. He has achieved all he promised.

And also I wish kaiser Henry a...happy term.

Prinz Jobst sits

OverKnight

05-14-2007, 14:10

Gunther unfurls a scroll and presents the last report of Chancellor von Kassel:

Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors, my term as Chancellor has come to an end and I wish to give my last report to Diet.

I have fulfilled all the goals I laid out twenty years ago for my term.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1515527&postcount=375

I have also fulfilled all of the Edicts passed by the Diet except one. The lone exception is 7.7, I provided only 5 holks to the "Holy Fleet". My apologies to the Diet and the Count of Venice.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=84133

Let me quickly address the changes that have occured in the Reich during my term in certain areas and how I believe we should proceed in the future.

First the Church, in the past twenty years we have reconciled to the Papacy, ending our excommunication. Our crusade was then sanctioned by the Church, and with the transfer of Jerusalem to the Papal States we have gained another ally. Our standing with the Church has never been higher and we now have four Priests in the College of Cardinals, the most of any nation. I hope our missionary work in the Holy Land will provide more.

Yet we must not take this for granted. In order to ensure our continued good standing and an Imperial Pope in the future, we must respect the wishes of the Church, and only defy them with good reason. Pope Pisanus has taken to the seas again, no doubt to make his way to Jerusalem, and will be out of reach of our diplomats for some time. We should keep this in mind.

Second, the Crusade has been succesfully completed. Not only did we liberate Jeruslam from the infidels, we crushed three Jihad armies on their way to Constantinople.

The Crusade may be over, but our work has just begun in Outremer. With the seizure of Adana and Acre we have established a presence in the Holy Land so that we may protect the new Papal States and return Christianity to the area. We must continue our efforts in Outremer and I again call on the Reich and its nobles to support this holy cause.

Third, as promised, I made the financial growth of the Reich a priority of my term. Merchant Guilds have been added to many cities, seven skilled merchants have been recruited and trade revenue has increased by 90% since 1180, from 12,000 florins annually to 20,000. Tax revenue has nearly doubled from 15,000 to 28,000, and projected profits have gone from 9,500 florins a year to 20,000. This is due in some part to our reconciliation and the ability the post-crusade euphoria gave me to tax at a higher level. We will lose some of this contentment in the next few years, but most of the growth in revenue is permanent.

I urge the Kaiser, the Duke and Counts to make economic development a continued priority in what they choose to build. Not to sound like a Venetian, but we need florins to fight, to build and to bribe. . .I mean negotiate.

Fourth, over 50 battles great and small were fought over my term. Six territories were gained, Ragusa, Marseille, Breslau, Adana and Acre, while Jerusalem was seized and donated to the Church. Our frontiers are stronger, the French, the Milanese, the Venetians and the Hungarians have been expelled from our lands and are quiet. The Poles remain a thorn in our side, but are mostly contained. Military expenses rose from 20,000 florins a year in 1180 to 30,000 in the present but our economic growth has outpaced this.

While we must mantain a strong military to enforce the will of the Reich, we cannot let it grow to such a size that it outstrips our ability to support it and still build and trade. We must also consider our future expansion wisely, so as to not anger the Pope and to keep defensible borders.

Finally, in the diplomatic arena, we have gained two new allies, the English and the Papacy. No new nations have declared war on us, though besides the Church and England we have not been able to make peace with any of our current enemies. The Russian incursion into Thorn caused me some concern, but the small annuity I negotiated with them for their maps seems to have worked. Their force has left our territory on a flotilla of ships and has not returned for now.

It will be up to Kaiser Henry to seek further negotiations with our enemies. I wish him luck, for all I have met with is stubborness and a denial of the dire situations they face. It only takes one nation to declare war, but two to make peace, and I have had no luck with it.

I now lay down my imperium, as they would say in the old days. I have been grateful for the oppurtunity to serve the Reich. We have triumphed on every front, and I wish to thank all of you who made it possible, particularly our departed brother Duke von Saxony. He was a giant among men, and even though he perished before we reached Jerusalem, I know he was there in spirit. I wish Kaiser Henry the best in his term and I will continue to serve his Majesty and the Reich in whatever task I am given. May the new century bring us new victories and greater prosperity.

Glory to God, the Kaiser and the Reich.

Duke Otto von Kassel

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1200.zip

TinCow

05-14-2007, 14:20

*The Bavarian lawyer stands.*

On behalf of the Count of Nuremburg, let me be the first to congratulate Duke von Kassel on his superbly administered term. My Lord was once a heavy critic of the Duke's, to put it mildly. Yet for many years now the letters he has sent me from the Crusade have been lavishing praise and esteem upon the Duke of Bavaria. On behalf of all the citizens of Nuremburg, I wish to thank Duke von Kassel for his unparalleled services to the Reich. This has been the most prosperous and successful Chancellorship that the Empire has ever seen.

*The Bavarian lawyer turns to Gunther and gives a deeply respectful bow.*

econ21

05-14-2007, 14:24

Diet Speaker: The Eighth Diet session is now open for the proposing of Edicts. The deadline for submission is 2pm Thursday, UK time, and there will then be a 24 hour period of voting.

OverKnight

05-14-2007, 14:32

Gunther speaks again:

My master has instructed me to forward this proposed edict:

Edict 8.1: The Milanese will be offered peace and trade rights with at most 5,000 florins as an incentive. If they refuse, they are to be destroyed expeditiously by taking Corsica and Sardinia, unless we are delayed from doing so by a Papal Bull. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will.

Proposed: Otto von Kassel
Seconded: Maximillian Mandorf, Gerhard Steffen

Our diplomat on Corsica has reported back about an army of cavalry and siege weapons on the island. Rather than wait for this axe to fall, we should make peace or finish them. Also, Sicily has stuck with us as allies through some dark times. They have shown that they desire Sardinia with their short lived attacks on the Milanese, so we should give it to them to improve our relations, and to prevent that island from causing a rift in our alliance.

Both islands are underdeveloped, so the goal here is to eliminate or neutralize the Milanese while improving our relations with the Sicilians, rather than just territorial acquisition. By doing both, we can secure Italy even further from attack or betrayal.

Please note that up to 5,000 florins is authorized. Personally I do not feel that the Milanese are worth that much, but we should give the Kaiser some latitude in this matter.

econ21

05-14-2007, 14:34

Diet Speaker: Although there will be no election for Chancellor this Diet, the Kaiser has sent me this message to the Diet to serve in lieu of a manifesto.

I am grateful beyond words to Duke Otto for his achievements during the last Diet. The motherland in Europe is strong and secure with powerful armies protecting our borders. We are reconciled with the Pope and have achieved our objective of gifting him Jerusalem, in a sanctioned crusade no less. These are tremendous achievements.

My Chancellorship will consolidate these gains. I propose a threefold programme:

(1) Continue to guard our European homeland, aggressively challenging any enemy armies that menace them. Franconia is perhaps the most pressed of our Houses - I will ensure its generals are well resourced. Swabia will be given a freer reign to strike at the French. Austria will be provided with additional commanders (from other Houses until more of her own emerge) to guard its large border. Bavaria guards perhaps our most secure border, that with Sicily to the South, and so her generals will be given an outlet for their talents in southern France and in guarding the hinterland of the Reich. But I will not lie to you - I do not propose an expansion of our European borders at this time. Where possible, I will emphasise measures that contribute to the strength of our economy, so my successors will have a strong foundation to weather any future challenges.

(2) Support our allies and seek to impose a Pax Romana on our enemies. We are the mightiest power in Europe - our word should carry weight. The first action here will be to return Constantinople to our brother Romans, the Byzantines. I will launch a seaborne expedition to take the city from the Hungarians and return it to Byzantium. If our enemies continue to defy us, we will strike aggressively at them - routing their armies and sacking their settlements, not to conquer but to enforce peace.

(3) Establish a Kingdom of Outremer in the Levant. We have two provinces there at present - Acre and Adana. They are divided and unsustainable as permanent outposts on their own. Outremer will only be viable if the rich city of Antioch is taken, allowing Acre and Adana to be linked. Aleppo and Damascus must also be taken to screen Antioch and Jerusalem from the East. Together this five provinces will constitute Outremer. I envisage this Kingdom being formally established at the next Diet by a Charter Amendment. The following is a draft of the kind of Amendment I will propose. However, I ask you not to vote on it now, but to let us trial this arrangement under my Chancellorship. If all goes well, I hope the Amendment will achieve the 2/3 majority necessary to pass at the next Diet. If not, we will have time to learn from any failures and to draft a superior set of rules around which there can be a consensus.

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo and Damascus.
2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.
3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom
4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).
5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).
6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.
7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.
8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.