View Full Version : Dismounted Gothic Knights - Any Use?
I've loved HRE since my first MTW campaign, but so far I've been a bit frustrated - first by a lack of good city or castle recruitable pikemen (while portugal and spain get aventuros and tercios?!) and now with DGK
What exactly is their use? Maybe I've not just figured it out yet, but it seems to me that feudal knights seem to out perform them, especially considering the cost difference. Is the extra charge and 1 higher attack really worth the 7 less armor and lack of shield?
I haven't done any really heavy testing other than a few quick battles, but vs DEK they lost, vs noble swordsmen they lost significantly (only 2 surviving with about 20 swordsmen left), and they've barely beat feudal knights on a few other occasions, with about 10 remaining.
This was playing Lands to Conquer v. 2.1
Is there a niche they fill really solidly? Am I putting them up against too strong of infantry when they should be used to decimate weaker infantry (militia, etc)?
Callahan9119
03-19-2007, 16:57
arent they cheap and armor piercing? and early units?
Philbert
03-19-2007, 17:19
Ehr, no, no and no.
Callahan9119
03-19-2007, 18:19
your wrong, they pierce armor, are cheaper than feudals yet they are high era units. i'm unsure of upkeep
Tiberius maximus
03-19-2007, 18:53
i use them and all other two-handed weopons behind spearmen for that extra muscle
Frederick_I_Barbarossa
03-19-2007, 19:30
Dismounted = VERY slow and pretty much worthless in the open, though they have some limited effectiveness on top of walls I've found.
Mounted = Nuclear weapons of the pre-gunpowder period
Revenant
03-19-2007, 19:32
your wrong, they pierce armor, are cheaper than feudals yet they are high era units. i'm unsure of upkeep
Check their stats... They do not have AP weapons and their other stats are horrible vs. Feudals.
Lusted has altered them for LTC, however he did fail to give AP to one of the 2-handed sword units. Probs a Mistake but...
So instead of being skilled knights in the finest armour of their day, they're really just not a lot better than the knights you can train/equip 100 or so years earlier? Don't get me wrong - I will always love the HRE, and they have some great units (reiters, mounted gothic knights) but I can't help but feel a little cheated :wall:
Lack of shield is actually a huge advantage in MTW2 seeing as shields are bugged and actually SUBTRACT from unit defence. Therefore, a unit with 10 armor & 7 shield actually has 3 defense, not 17.
Once (if) they patch the game, though, you're right... they won't be a great unit.
HoreTore
03-19-2007, 21:34
Get the shield fix in the meantime ;)
Anyway, I'm feeling there will be massive rebalancing in the patch, to make the late units without shields better...
He's playing LTc 2.1 which includes the shield fix.
I gave DGK the ap attribute and +2 attack to help try and balance them. They are best used i find as shock troops designed to make a whole in the weak part of the enemy line. Your DIK are best used against Noble Swordsmen/DCK.
pike master
03-19-2007, 21:58
are the dismounted gothic knights the guys with the great swords that you arent able to get in the campaign or am i mistaken?
Revenant
03-19-2007, 22:05
He's playing LTc 2.1 which includes the shield fix.
I gave DGK the ap attribute and +2 attack to help try and balance them. They are best used i find as shock troops designed to make a whole in the weak part of the enemy line. Your DIK are best used against Noble Swordsmen/DCK.
Sorry, my mistake... I should check entire post before reply.
The DGK just doesnt pack enough of a puch for a late era shock infantry, they do fine on charges, but their melee abillity is terrible compare to other troops such as DEK,VG or JHI for some odd reason. I just use DFK when playing the HRE since their great sword units just seem sub-par compare to other infantry, and the DIK is even worse( probably due to the shield bug).
I haven't had any problems with other units, and the shield fix is great (just installed 2.1 the other day). Imperial Knights are now ferocious... They've been killing 4 and 5 times their losses in battles. I love em :2thumbsup:
Here's to hoping they patch them in the future
Most of the popular rebalance mods make DGK into berserker suicide attack infantry with rather mediocore defense and somewhat high attack. They are really only good for spearheading attacks. Archaic sword and shield infantry are better for forming your main battle line, leading to strange cases like DFK guarding musketeers in late period armies.
Note: To be fair they WILL destroy any sword and board unit they face, but will die to archery, cavalry and pikes. Glass cannons.
Callahan9119
03-20-2007, 16:27
Check their stats... They do not have AP weapons and their other stats are horrible vs. Feudals.
my bad i was talking about regular imperials. poor reading comprehension :book:
I have yet to see the point of using any of these late, heavy types of infantry that use 2 handed weapons. The regular sword and shield infantry seems to get the jobs done much faster.
Goofball
03-20-2007, 21:35
He's playing LTc 2.1 which includes the shield fix.
I gave DGK the ap attribute and +2 attack to help try and balance them. They are best used i find as shock troops designed to make a whole in the weak part of the enemy line. Your DIK are best used against Noble Swordsmen/DCK.
Actually, I have found much better uses for my dik.
~:flirt:
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